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View Full Version : Is this a no lose situation for the Mavs?



barreleffact
05-26-2011, 09:41 AM
The Mavericks and Dirks Legacy took a serious hit in 2006 with their loss to the Heat after being up 2-0. However, with a return to the finals and the Heat's level of talent, would a loss to the Heat be detrimental in any way? Is this a no lose situation for Dirk and the Mavs? If the Mavs win, they beat a team of All-stars in the process. If they lose, they lost to a deserving team after some of the best basketball in playoff history. They made historic comebacks and played with heart, comeback after comeback.

Conversly, is this a must win situation for the Heat? If they win, they had all the talent in the league with 2 top 4 players. If they lose, they lose to a team they beat in 06, a team labeled a choking team, a team that should not be able to guard 2 elite perimeter players due to age, athleticism, or whatever reasoning. A win establishes their Era of basketball. A loss would only allow for one excuse, collective inexeperience/lack of cohesion.

Personally, I feel its the Heats title to lose, and a loss would be bitter sweet after 2006. The Mavs have played outstanding basketball, but the Heat have the talent and youth. A Heat loss would cement Dirks elite legacy and prove to people what some had been saying for a while now, that Dirk is clutch, but a loss to the Heat doesnt harm them in any way. I feel the road they've already taken to get to the finals is proof of their status and the fact that Dirk has now reached it twice as the lead man provides a solid foundation for him.

A Dallas victory would boost Dirks legacy tremendously with claims of redemption from 06. It would damage Lebron and even Wade's reputations IMO and instill more faith that the Heat may be hit or miss regardless of their core players. It would show that chemistry/player skillsets are a big factor.

Greet
05-26-2011, 09:42 AM
No there is a lose situation for the Mavs, it's called losing.

Anything short of a title at this point, is devastating.

mikealike305
05-26-2011, 09:47 AM
there are no moral victories in basketball. a loss is a loss.

king4day
05-26-2011, 09:50 AM
It's a lose situation if they lose. There's too great a story going on in Dallas with all the vets coming together to win a ring. If Miami or Chicago are going to start winning rings, let it be next year cuz this Dallas team, barring getting Howard, is gonna struggle winning against a more seasoned OKC or Chicago team. And Miami will have more talent next year.

jp611
05-26-2011, 09:53 AM
heat havent made it to the finals yet

Rentzias
05-26-2011, 09:54 AM
http://hoopism.com/?p=746

The Mavs are an old team, and the window is shrinking. Must-win situation right now.

Hellcrooner
05-26-2011, 09:55 AM
They can lose.

Specially if the Refs KEEP pushing them up ( to get even from 06, we all know how Stern loves to script things) and they STILL lose.

Ty Fast
05-26-2011, 09:56 AM
they have to win a title or it be a huge disappointment for them. this might be the last chance for a lot of mavs players. they better take advantage of this opportunity
dirk 32 (almost 33)
j-kid 38
marion 33
terry 33
peja 33

giants73756
05-26-2011, 09:56 AM
Agree with all 7 replies

PhillyFaninLA
05-26-2011, 10:02 AM
heat havent made it to the finals yet


Nice off topic post in a topic about the Mavs.

barreleffact
05-26-2011, 10:08 AM
So I am the only one to disagree? There is only one title every year. Yes, a loss would OBVIOUSLY mean they lose the title. I understand this, but would their reputation suffer a hit? They already werent supposed to be here. They shouldve lost to LA, but destroyed them instead.

If they lose, IMO the choke tag is still removed from Dirk. They wouldnt be favorites in this finals considering talent. And this post is irrespective of windows. Dallas' championship window is obviously shorter than Miami's. I honestly didnt think they had a championship window, i mean..its Dallas. They had a choke tag and been disappointing previously which is the point of this post. They were doubted by anyone not in Dallas. A victory does wonders, but what negativity would a loss at this point garnish?

The heat on the other hand are favorites. If they lost to Boston or chicago, it would be okay. They could use the inexperience claim, but a loss in the finals would disregard that claim and they can only say they lost to a better TEAM.

barreleffact
05-26-2011, 10:10 AM
heat havent made it to the finals yet

true, they have not. But the ods arent in Chicagos favor. Its an assumption, but its in no way reaching to suggest they will advance. However, I should have stated this.

JordansBulls
05-26-2011, 10:14 AM
The Mavericks and Dirks Legacy took a serious hit in 2006 with their loss to the Heat after being up 2-0. However, with a return to the finals and the Heat's level of talent, would a loss to the Heat be detrimental in any way? Is this a no lose situation for Dirk and the Mavs? If the Mavs win, they beat a team of All-stars in the process. If they lose, they lost to a deserving team after some of the best basketball in playoff history. They made historic comebacks and played with heart, comeback after comeback.

Conversly, is this a must win situation for the Heat? If they win, they had all the talent in the league with 2 top 4 players. If they lose, they lose to a team they beat in 06, a team labeled a choking team, a team that should not be able to guard 2 elite perimeter players due to age, athleticism, or whatever reasoning. A win establishes their Era of basketball. A loss would only allow for one excuse, collective inexeperience/lack of cohesion.

Personally, I feel its the Heats title to lose, and a loss would be bitter sweet after 2006. The Mavs have played outstanding basketball, but the Heat have the talent and youth. A Heat loss would cement Dirks elite legacy and prove to people what some had been saying for a while now, that Dirk is clutch, but a loss to the Heat doesnt harm them in any way. I feel the road they've already taken to get to the finals is proof of their status and the fact that Dirk has now reached it twice as the lead man provides a solid foundation for him.

A Dallas victory would boost Dirks legacy tremendously with claims of redemption from 06. It would damage Lebron and even Wade's reputations IMO and instill more faith that the Heat may be hit or miss regardless of their core players. It would show that chemistry/player skillsets are a big factor.

The only solace they would have is that they didn't have HCA in the series, however it would still be painful considering they were the ones who knocked off the 2x defending champs and this may very well be their last shot at winning a title.

mikealike305
05-26-2011, 10:16 AM
of couse they still suffer a hit. u doint play the game to MAKE IT to the finals.... u play to WIN in the finals. and if dirk cant do that this year, he might not get another chance.
marino is the best QB to ever throw a football. but many people have a hard time giving that to him cuz he has never won a ring.

SteBO
05-26-2011, 10:17 AM
heat havent made it to the finals yet


Nice off topic post in a topic about the Mavs.

There's nothing off-topic about it. jpro611 is right. We haven't advanced yet. I'm seriously not all that hapy about guys assuming a Mavs-Heat rematch is imminent. I know the odds are in our favor, but until I see 4 wins next to the Heat, Heat-Bulls is still a series. The Bulls should be respected for the good team they really are and that's reality. Hopefully, my boys can close out tonight, but that's won't be any easier than the last game since it's on the road.

LongWayFromHome
05-26-2011, 10:20 AM
I coached a travel 10u basketball team to back-to-back national title games... After losing the first one, when we got back the next year (many returning players) the players felt so much pressure to win. I felt very similar to Dirk (and seemingly all Mavs fans at this point) I felt we were on a mission and only a title would satisfy.

INFACT - it felt like winning would have been more of a relief than joyous - I believe this is what the Mavs feel. So it is very much a Win/Lose even almost a *sigh of relief*/lose situation. Only winning will satisfy and it will be a relief (still joyous, but more of a relief)

PS - we lost again as huge favorites.

BkOriginalOne
05-26-2011, 10:23 AM
Most of world wants the Mavericks to win. Which was not the cast 5 years ago.

Iron24th
05-26-2011, 10:23 AM
I respect a lot Dirk and the mavs play this year,but even if they win the title this year,more titles will be needed to forget 5 or 6 years of choke.

barreleffact
05-26-2011, 10:26 AM
of couse they still suffer a hit. u doint play the game to MAKE IT to the finals.... u play to WIN in the finals. and if dirk cant do that this year, he might not get another chance.
marino is the best QB to ever throw a football. but many people have a hard time giving that to him cuz he has never won a ring.

Dirk will never go down as the best anything(save maybe euro player) and neither will the mavs. You do play to win it all and history doesnt remember the losers too well, but reputation and demeanor of the mavs has already been affected IMO.


There's nothing off-topic about it. jpro611 is right. We haven't advanced yet. I'm seriously not all that hapy about guys assuming a Mavs-Heat rematch is imminent. I know the odds are in our favor, but until I see 4 wins next to the Heat, Heat-Bulls is still a series. The Bulls should be respected for the good team they really are and that's reality. Hopefully, my boys can close out tonight, but that's won't be any easier than the last game since it's on the road.

The bulls were very good in the regular season. The playoffs have not been kind to them or their efficiency at all, and the heat really have exposed them. With that said, you are correct, it isn't over. But the heat have just won 3 straight, including one on the road. The odds of them failing now are almost unfathomable.

mikealike305
05-26-2011, 10:35 AM
[QUOTE=barreleffact;18029358]Dirk will never go down as the best anything(save maybe euro player) and neither will the mavs. You do play to win it all and history doesnt remember the losers too well, but reputation and demeanor of the mavs has already been affected IMO. QUOTE]

the point i was trying to make by bringing up marino is that no matter what u do in your career, how many times u make it to the finals, how many games u win, how many records u might have, not winning a ring is going to hurt you and always going to be what ppl remember u for. a great player that just never won it all.
so yes, not winning this year (most likely his last year to have a shot at it) will hurt his career. like i said, there are no moral victories.
if they lose to the heat (providing the heat beat the bulls) no one will look back and say " much respect for the mavs, even tho they lost, they beat the lakers and make it to the finals"

LongWayFromHome
05-26-2011, 10:45 AM
I respect a lot Dirk and the mavs play this year,but even if they win the title this year,more titles will be needed to forget 5 or 6 years of choke.

as a Mavs fan that is exactly how I feel. This one will feel relieving and if we won (not gonna happen) another one in the next 3 years, that one would feel great.

Its actually really sad.

Other people have some insight but 06 (followed by 67wins and first round upset in 07) really really REALLY (and as Dr Cox from Scrubs would say) Reheheheheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelly stings....deep in my heart

MrfadeawayJB
05-26-2011, 11:27 AM
I would say its a win everything or lose everything for the Mavs. This is their year! They got the lakers slippin, and the heat are brand new to the "big 3". Not to mention the Mavs are getting older. Next year the lakers may have Dwight, the thunder will be better, my Grizz will be better, and the Heat will improve greatly in the 2nd year of there big 3. Dallas has to do it NOW!!!

John Walls Era
05-26-2011, 11:32 AM
Why is it a must win for the Heat? They are still young. This is kind of the Mavs last chance.

JCmasta
05-26-2011, 11:35 AM
To think this is a no lose situation for the mavs is crazy. They're a veteran team with most if not all of their players looking for their 1st ring! Realistically, this is J-Kidd's last shot at a title and this could be the last time Dirk ever gets to the finals. This is not a Thunder team full of 21-22 yr olds giving it their best shot in the finals in their 2nd playoff run, a lot of these mavs players don't have many years left.

As for the Heat, i think if they don't win it all this year within all reason they should get a (mini)pass. This is their first year together and they had a very turbulent regular season. They made a great run during the playoffs to establish themselves as kings of the eastern conference but they ran into a deep, balanced, and hungry veteran team in the finals.

Every reasonable analyst/fan thought they would win it all year 2 or 3 anyway.

MTone8788
05-26-2011, 11:37 AM
The answer is simple... You play the sport to win. It's a competition for a reason. No team who makes it to the finals will be satisfied with anything less than the championship.

Raoul Duke
05-26-2011, 11:42 AM
It's a "what have you done for me lately?" league. If they lose, it'll be right back to the whole "oh they're soft" and "Dirk can't get it done" crap thats been dogging that team since 2006.

In fact, it'll probably start if the Heat go up by one game in the series.

JCmasta
05-26-2011, 11:48 AM
I respect a lot Dirk and the mavs play this year,but even if they win the title this year,more titles will be needed to forget 5 or 6 years of choke.

I really don't think that's reasonable. It's hard enough to get to the top once, but to expect the mavs to become some sort of dynasty is unrealistic. As a mavs fan, if we win it all this year all else will be forgiven and our entire perception of the organization will change. 1/2 in the finals, a decade+ of 50 win seasons, some very disappointing playoff runs but overall it was a good run and we achieved our ultimate goal, winning a NBA title.

Unfortunately not everyone can be the Lakers, Celtics, or Spurs.

BlondeBomber41
05-26-2011, 01:11 PM
I respect a lot Dirk and the mavs play this year,but even if they win the title this year,more titles will be needed to forget 5 or 6 years of choke.

That is ridiculous.

For example, the Pistons went on a great run with Billups/Hamilton/Prince/Wallace/Wallace/McDyess and only won 1 championship. They made the conference finals and finals twice, but only won 1 championship. That team isn't considered chokers.

heyman321
05-26-2011, 01:20 PM
I respect a lot Dirk and the mavs play this year,but even if they win the title this year,more titles will be needed to forget 5 or 6 years of choke.

Lol no it won't. If Dirk wins it this year, nobody would question his greatness.

Because: 1) Everyone outside Miami knows that the 2006 Finals was officiated terribly.
2) Dirk has never had a real center and perimeter defender to play alongside with (Chandler and Marion are doing wonders on defense). FFS, Dampier was their starting center for 5 years. ERICK DAMPIER WAS THEIR STARTING CENTER. I can't believe that.
3) The fact that if he wins a title this year, it would have come from so many amazing games. Sweeping the Lakers, Dirk's 48 pt game on 12-15 shooting, the comeback from 15 down with 4:30 left, etc.

I'm not even a Mavericks fan, but everyone knows Dirk is a man on a mission right now. So is Kidd, Terry, and Marion. I went on facebook this morning, and my friends who were cheering for Boston, LA, and OKC were saying "Wow Dallas really knows how to close a game, Miami should be worried". And these were guys who previously said Dirk was a choker. This is their shot.

tbomlad
05-26-2011, 01:29 PM
heat havent made it to the finals yet

yeah they have

Young2Kinsler
05-26-2011, 01:45 PM
Ask Dirk, he will tell you.

Sure we will be the underdogs if we play the Heat or Bulls, but Dirk's career is riding on the next series in his mind.

IF they lose, it will be crushing to him and the rest of the team. But, I can see your point from a media/fan perspective.

Tanakid777
05-26-2011, 01:56 PM
I see where you're coming from, and unless Dallas beats themselves, people should stop calling Dirk a choker, but try saying all that moral victory **** to Dirk and see if you don't get slapped

210Don
05-26-2011, 02:14 PM
they better win it.... the west will not be this weak next year

hugepatsfan
05-26-2011, 02:16 PM
What kind of BS question is this? They're in the Finals. How the **** is it a no lose situation when they could... you know, lose?!?!

daleja424
05-26-2011, 02:18 PM
no, I'm pretty sure they can lose...

Tony_Starks
05-26-2011, 02:43 PM
If Dallas loses it would be a huge disappointment. For all the reasons mentioned besides the fact that this is their best chance to do it. Also I don't think its fair to say that they weren't supposed to be there because lest we forget before Dirk went down early in the year they were running away from the rest of the league.

I think a loss would be monumental because if they can't get it with this squad there's the chance that Cuban might go with a "this team just can't get it done" philosophy and break the team up, especially with their overall age....

Its now or never time!

Chronz
05-26-2011, 03:03 PM
there are no moral victories in basketball. a loss is a loss.

Disagree, watching Tmac clown on far superior teams and taking them to 7 is a greater accomplishment than watching Melo get locked down and lose in 5. It tells me something.. you can downplay it all you want but it does matter in some form

theheatles
05-26-2011, 03:18 PM
It's a "what have you done for me lately?" league. If they lose, it'll be right back to the whole "oh they're soft" and "Dirk can't get it done" crap thats been dogging that team since 2006.

In fact, it'll probably start if the Heat go up by one game in the series.

the NBA? no it isn't
the NFL is a what have you done lately for me league..players and teams live off reputation in the NBA...that's why ppl had to wait until boston and LA had the stake drilled into their hearts and watch em die to finally declare boston and LA out

Jaji
05-26-2011, 04:21 PM
The 06 Mavs and Heat teams were completely different from the 11 Mavs and Heat teams. 2 players from each team left I believe.

ewing
05-26-2011, 04:34 PM
The Mavericks and Dirks Legacy took a serious hit in 2006 with their loss to the Heat after being up 2-0. However, with a return to the finals and the Heat's level of talent, would a loss to the Heat be detrimental in any way? Is this a no lose situation for Dirk and the Mavs? If the Mavs win, they beat a team of All-stars in the process. If they lose, they lost to a deserving team after some of the best basketball in playoff history. They made historic comebacks and played with heart, comeback after comeback.

Conversly, is this a must win situation for the Heat? If they win, they had all the talent in the league with 2 top 4 players. If they lose, they lose to a team they beat in 06, a team labeled a choking team, a team that should not be able to guard 2 elite perimeter players due to age, athleticism, or whatever reasoning. A win establishes their Era of basketball. A loss would only allow for one excuse, collective inexeperience/lack of cohesion.

Personally, I feel its the Heats title to lose, and a loss would be bitter sweet after 2006. The Mavs have played outstanding basketball, but the Heat have the talent and youth. A Heat loss would cement Dirks elite legacy and prove to people what some had been saying for a while now, that Dirk is clutch, but a loss to the Heat doesnt harm them in any way. I feel the road they've already taken to get to the finals is proof of their status and the fact that Dirk has now reached it twice as the lead man provides a solid foundation for him.

A Dallas victory would boost Dirks legacy tremendously with claims of redemption from 06. It would damage Lebron and even Wade's reputations IMO and instill more faith that the Heat may be hit or miss regardless of their core players. It would show that chemistry/player skillsets are a big factor.



No its not a "no lose" . If they lose they lose. Some **** on here is just ********