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NBA_Starter
05-23-2011, 05:26 PM
MIAMI -- Chicago Bulls center Joakim Noah was fined $50,000 for directing an anti-gay slur toward a fan during Game 3 of the Eastern Conference finals on Sunday night.

That's half the fine that Kobe Bryant of the Los Angeles Lakers received for using the same slur when yelling at a referee last month. NBA spokesman Tim Frank said that the two situations were different.

"Kobe's fine included discipline for verbal abuse of a game offical," he said.

Noah apologized again for the comment, while two major advocacy groups called upon the league to sanction Noah.

Noah and NBA officials met Monday morning. Noah said he emerged from that talk prepared to "pay the price" for what happened when he returned to the bench with two fouls midway through the first quarter of Sunday night's game against the Miami Heat.

"The fan said something that was disrespectful towards me," Noah said. "And I went back at him. Got it on camera. I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. Anybody who knows me knows that I'm not like that. I'm an open-minded guy. I said the wrong thing and I'm going to pay the consequences -- deal with the consequences -- like a man. I don't want to be a distraction to the team right now."

Television cameras captured Noah saying an expletive, followed by the slur. Noah said he did not realize the gravity of the situation until he was questioned by reporters after the game Sunday, adding that he meant "no disrespect" to anyone.

Noah's actions come after Phoenix Suns president and CEO Rick Welts revealed he was gay last week, a rare acknowledgement for someone holding a prominent position in men's sports.

"We know what business we are in," Heat forward LeBron James said Monday. "Emotions get played. ... I don't think it was right what he said. But emotions do get said over the course of the game. We know there's going to be microphones. We know there's going to be cameras around. You just have to be cautious about what you say and just try to control your emotions as much as possible."

The Heat won Sunday's game 96-85, taking a 2-1 lead in the best-of-seven series. Game 4 is Tuesday night in Miami.

The Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, or GLAAD, said it reached out to the NBA and the Bulls on Monday "to discuss next steps," and called upon the league to reiterate to its players that anti-gay words should not be tolerated in the game.

"Last month the NBA sent an important message about how such slurs fuel a climate of intolerance and are unacceptable," GLAAD President Jarrett Barrios said in a statement. "These anti-gay remarks, coming so soon after, demonstrate how much needs to be done."

GLAAD said it has started a partnership with Bryant and the Lakers following the April incident in Los Angeles. Also Monday, the Human Rights Campaign called Noah's use of the slur "just plain unacceptable."

"At a time when the NBA and a growing number of pro-athletes are publicly standing up for equality, it's too bad Mr. Noah worked against their efforts last night," HRC President Joe Solmonese said. "That said, we're pleased he quickly realized the error of his ways and apologized."

Some of Noah's teammates stood up for him Monday, saying that the fan went too far in whatever comments were directed toward the Bulls' bench.

"It wasn't just one time or two times," said Bulls forward Luol Deng, who declined to say what comments the fan may have made. "He just kept going and it became really annoying. He just lost his temper."

Bulls forward Carlos Boozer said he was not aware of exactly what took place in the bench area, but noted it happens somewhat regularly.

"That's a part of the game," Boozer said. "Fans have the right to say what they want to say after they buy their tickets. Unfortunately sometimes, for us, we just have to sit there and take it. Unfortunately, that's part of sports."

Noah repeated often Monday that he was apologetic for the incident. He said he would "learn from my mistakes," and acknowledged that being frustrated over picking up his second foul did not excuse his words.

"I'll remember," Noah said. "I'll remember it for a long time."

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=6579408

daleja424
05-23-2011, 05:27 PM
Not enough. Should have been at least the same as Kobe's fine

ManRam
05-23-2011, 05:27 PM
I think that's fair.

justinnum1
05-23-2011, 05:28 PM
weak

Master Mind
05-23-2011, 05:30 PM
Should have been same as Kobe

MiamiWadeCounty
05-23-2011, 05:32 PM
I'm fine with it. Kobe is a superstar in the NBA and one of the top 3 most recognizable players in the sport. Joakim Noah is a very good player, but his influence isn't even close to Kobe's.

ManRam
05-23-2011, 05:32 PM
I get why people think it was equal/worst than Kobe's, but I just don't interpret it that way.

Either way, $50,000 means as much to Noah as $100,000 means to Kobe...probably more actually.

I think his apology afterwards sound sincere and real might have helped. Who knows?

njnets
05-23-2011, 05:33 PM
i want to see the explanation of why it was not 100 like kobes. im assuming that the nba will make a statement about it.

rapjuicer06
05-23-2011, 05:33 PM
i think its stupid. don't like what they say then keep the damn camera's off them when they're mad. ****ing bull **** if you ask me

GoatMilk
05-23-2011, 05:33 PM
yelling at a fan/customer is worse than yelling at an official
this is BS

players yell at refs all the time. if they were to yell at a fan, they'd be killed by the NBA

so when Kobe says what he says to a ref, he gets fined. ok cool
but when noah says the same thing to a fan, he gets fined less?

doesnt make sense to me

Master Mind
05-23-2011, 05:34 PM
yelling at a fan/customer is worse than yelling at an official
this is BS

players yell at refs all the time. if they were to yell at a fan, they'd be killed by the NBA

so when Kobe says what he says to a ref, he gets fined. ok cool
but when noah says the same thing to a fan, he gets fined less?

doesnt make sense to me

This

NBA_Starter
05-23-2011, 05:37 PM
Should have been at least the same as Kobe's fine

I actually agree or like one analyst said should have been more because it was directed at a fan likely with kids around, I'm just glad there was no suspension, though Noah hasn't been tearing it up, I still don't want any excuses.

daleja424
05-23-2011, 05:38 PM
Not only was it directed at a fan... But it was also just weeks after Kobe got fined AND it was in the middle of an anti gay slur campaign by the NBA. This was a no brainer. Guy should have been fined 150k+

Tmath
05-23-2011, 05:39 PM
I blame the camera guy.

Gibby23
05-23-2011, 05:42 PM
Not only was it directed at a fan... But it was also just weeks after Kobe got fined AND it was in the middle of an anti gay slur campaign by the NBA. This was a no brainer. Guy should have been fined 150k+

Thats just crazy. Kobe makes like 3 times what Noah makes. What if a guy like Trey Johonson from the Lakers did this, he only made about 150k. Im sure he would have been fined about 10k.

Cubsfan365
05-23-2011, 05:43 PM
Not only was it directed at a fan... But it was also just weeks after Kobe got fined AND it was in the middle of an anti gay slur campaign by the NBA. This was a no brainer. Guy should have been fined 150k+
Are you serious? He should have to pay $150K+ for making a mistake in the heat of the moment after being heckled by who knows how many fans? That's ****ing ********. Noah makes way less than Kobe, and no way he should get fined more when he was being provoked by a bunch of fairweather Heat fans IMO.

ManRam
05-23-2011, 05:44 PM
i think its stupid. don't like what they say then keep the damn camera's off them when they're mad. ****ing bull **** if you ask me

I disagree. You can't allow your players to be yelling words like that at fans.

Can't blame the camera man for this one.

Cubsfan365
05-23-2011, 05:44 PM
Thats just crazy. Kobe makes like 3 times what Noah makes. What if a guy like Trey Johonson from the Lakers did this, he only made about 150k. Im sure he would have been fined about 10k.
This. Plus Noah was being provoked by fans right behind him.

daleja424
05-23-2011, 05:47 PM
+this is on the heels of an NBA exec coming out of the closet...

You guys complain about a big fine... Why? Hit him hard in the wallet and it won't happen again! Heat of the moment? Who cares? Some words have no place in the world regardless of the context

KnicksR4Real
05-23-2011, 05:47 PM
alot of money for him than it is for kobe. fair. but some may not see it that way

Heater4life
05-23-2011, 05:50 PM
Yea? You call a customer a *** at work see what happens.

It was directed at a fan and during the NBA's anti gay slur campaign. Should have been equal to Kobe. That goes for him and any other player.

daleja424
05-23-2011, 05:50 PM
It just makes the NBA look bad. It makes it look like they rent taking their own anti-slur campaign seriously. The fine needed to be at least the same as kobe's to preserve their message.

Heater4life
05-23-2011, 05:52 PM
Are you serious? He should have to pay $150K+ for making a mistake in the heat of the moment after being heckled by who knows how many fans? That's ****ing ********. Noah makes way less than Kobe, and no way he should get fined more when he was being provoked by a bunch of fairweather Heat fans IMO.


This. Plus Noah was being provoked by fans right behind him.

Thats not an excuse. It happens EVERY night. It happened to Lebron v.s Detroit. And im sure he heard it EVERY road game. It all about composure man, your a professional athlete. You get payed millions to play a game, im sure you can have a little composure.

Bruno
05-23-2011, 05:52 PM
The networks and camera men need to not do close up of disgruntled players on the bench. The media is the problem; profanity in the moment of emotion have been used since the incarnation of the game. This is a problem of 24/7 microscope society and media not allowing any room for error. From a production stand-point it is irresponsible gossip fodder.

Raps08-09 Champ
05-23-2011, 05:53 PM
It's probably less than Kobe's since Kobe makes more and Kobe is more of a role model than Noah.

But if you want to treat everyone equal, it should be 100K.

Also, he said it to a fan which should be worse than to a ref.

Either way, I don't really care.

Seems a lot for something that was said out of emotion. Gay people say derogatory things all the time yet when someone says ******, they go crazy over it.

daleja424
05-23-2011, 05:54 PM
The networks and camera men need to not do close up of disgruntled players. The media is the problem; profanity in the moment of emotion have been used since the incarnation of the game. This is a problem of 24/7 microscope society and media not allowing any room for error. From a production stand-point it is irresponsible gossip fodder.

Very true! But all the players know this is the case by now. Time to adjust.

dnewguy
05-23-2011, 05:56 PM
considering the fan was also inappropriate, I think he shouldn't have been punished at all.

beasted86
05-23-2011, 05:57 PM
Good. $50k is not a lot to them, but I know it still annoys these players losing that money.

Next time Noah should call them a b---h, p---y, d-bag, a-hole, or other derogatory remark other than a homophobic slur (I'm not being sarcastic either). Players just need to be smart as there are only a few things you can yell out to get you fined.

Bruno
05-23-2011, 05:57 PM
Very true! But all the players know this is the case by now. Time to adjust.

x2, but I don't think it would be unfair to ask both sides to adjust (production: ESPN, ABC, TNT). If the NBA has the power to sign deals with media giants, then they have the power to tell them to not film disgruntled players on the bench. Perhaps not with their current deals, but they could include that as a clause in the next contract/s.

If both sides attempted to make a difference in the topic this obnoxious problem wouldn't be so magnified.

smith&wesson
05-23-2011, 05:58 PM
why would ppl say that kobe got more because it was directed towards an official ?correct me if im wrong but wouldnt a customer be more valued then an employee ?

I would want the league to make a serious example of that player seeing how our hard earn money pays theyre wages.

Raps08-09 Champ
05-23-2011, 05:59 PM
Are you serious? He should have to pay $150K+ for making a mistake in the heat of the moment after being heckled by who knows how many fans? That's ****ing ********. Noah makes way less than Kobe, and no way he should get fined more when he was being provoked by a bunch of fairweather Heat fans IMO.

Getting heckled is part of the game.

Lebron and Bosh were 2 of the most heckled players this year. Not once have I seen a game where they were not booed by just touching the ball. Other superstars get cheered whenever they have a fantastic away game but whenever Lebron and Bosh had a great game or the road, all they got were boos.

Cleveland fans heckled Lebron all night about his mom and Delonte. Yet Lebron didn't retaliate. Bosh was getting shitted on by all Raptor fans and he didn't do anything.


I agree that $150K is a lot but don't try to make an argument when other players have to go through the same thing every game.

smith&wesson
05-23-2011, 06:00 PM
Good. $50k is not a lot to them, but I know it still annoys these players losing that money.

Next time Noah should call them a b---h, p---y, d-bag, a-hole, or other derogatory remark other than a homophobic slur (I'm not being sarcastic either). Players just need to be smart as there are only a few things you can yell out to get you fined.

I disagree, i think the fans pay to be fans that means chearing and booing. if a player cant handle that they should think about finding another job. you cant say somthing like that to a fan because those are fighting words. someone who knows mma would go on the court and snap his arm off ... if your gonna say things like that you better be ready to back your words up.

ManRam
05-23-2011, 06:01 PM
The networks and camera men need to not do close up of disgruntled players on the bench. The media is the problem; profanity in the moment of emotion have been used since the incarnation of the game. This is a problem of 24/7 microscope society and media not allowing any room for error. From a production stand-point it is irresponsible gossip fodder.

Sure.

But the camera men not capturing it on film doesn't wipe away the fact that Noah shouted this at a fan, who very well could have been with his family, could have been in the vicinity of children etc. The media is not the problem. The problem is Noah yelling this at a fan, not that it got caught on camera. That is what is wrong about this, and not capturing it on camera doesn't make it an acceptable act.

I'm leaning towards thinking this should have been equal to Kobe's after all. At first I didn't, but I do think shouting this at fans is worse than shouting it at a ref. I do think that the precedence has already been set and that you can't lessen your stance on it. And I do think that considering how recent events have played out, this did need to be bigger.


I do think Noah's apology was far more sincere and honest, so maybe that played into it.

MiamiWadeCounty
05-23-2011, 06:02 PM
Kobe = Approximately 25 million, Fined 100k
Noah = Approximately 3 million (this year, goes up to about 10 million next year), Fined 50k

Seems fair to me. :shrug: What we do if this was a player on the rookie scale making about 500k. We wouldn't fine them 100k because it would be about 20% of the player's income from his contract.

smith&wesson
05-23-2011, 06:05 PM
considering the fan was also inappropriate, I think he shouldn't have been punished at all.

he better be punished for that kind of unprofessionalism. a fan is not on the clock he is there on his own time. noah is on the clock and is working and he has to be proffesional. if your at a playoff game as a fan your gonna heckle the aposing team thats apart of the game. why else would teams want home court advantage ? because it pays to have the crowd on your side. obviously this fan got in noahs head. and noah allowed it too happen. thats his fault.

ManRam
05-23-2011, 06:09 PM
Do we even know what the fan said? How can we justify Noah's actions by assuming his?

Fans should be held to a lesser standard than professional NBA athletes. These athletes are expected to be acting professional. These fans don't have to live up to the same standard. There are stadium regulations, and if he violated them he should have been removed...but heckling players often isn't a violation of stadium rules.

Even Boozer said fans have the right to say what they want to the players :shrug:

Giraffes Rule
05-23-2011, 06:10 PM
50k to Noah is a lot more than 100k is to Kobe.

Bruno
05-23-2011, 06:15 PM
Sure.

But the camera men not capturing it on film doesn't wipe away the fact that Noah shouted this at a fan, who very well could have been with his family, could have been in the vicinity of children etc. The media is not the problem. The problem is Noah yelling this at a fan, not that it got caught on camera. That is what is wrong about this, and not capturing it on camera doesn't make it an acceptable act.

I'm leaning towards thinking this should have been equal to Kobe's after all. At first I didn't, but I do think shouting this at fans is worse than shouting it at a ref. I do think that the precedence has already been set and that you can't lessen your stance on it. And I do think that considering how recent events have played out, this did need to be bigger.


I do think Noah's apology was far more sincere and honest, so maybe that played into it.

Fair points ManRam.

I'm under the impression that he was fined for using the word "******", and not necessarily because he yelled at the fan. I'm 100% there with you that yelling at fans should be a punishable offensive; but I can't help but think that he was only punished because of the specific profanity that he used.

With that being said, "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?". Maybe not an exact fit in this scenario (because fans and people around the bench did hear it). But there's a big difference between 15-20 people hearing it, opposed to the millions who were made aware of it because of the media.

Both sides need to do a better job, players and production. There's no need for this to be so public, IMO.

ManRam
05-23-2011, 06:16 PM
With that being said, "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?". Maybe not an exact fit in this scenario (because fans and people around the bench did hear it). But there's a big difference between 15-20 people hearing it, opposed to the millions who were made aware of it because of the media.

Yeah. The fans there heard it, and that's the problem.

I do see your point. If the camera crew didn't catch this then millions of people wouldn't hear about it. I'm sure the NBA would prefer that.

NBA_Starter
05-23-2011, 06:18 PM
To clarify the difference, this was posted in regards to Kobe's fine being higher.

AlexKennedyNBA Alex Kennedy
by AdamZagoria
For those wondering, Kobe Bryant's fine was $50,000 more than Joakim Noah's because he was docked extra for "verbally abusing an official."

Jaji
05-23-2011, 06:19 PM
Not enough. Should have been at least the same as Kobe's fine

Kobe's salary was about 8x more than Joakim's this year. I'm sure the NBA took that into consideration.

Bruno
05-23-2011, 06:21 PM
Yeah. The fans there heard it, and that's the problem.

I do see your point. If the camera crew didn't catch this then millions of people wouldn't hear about it. I'm sure the NBA would prefer that.

Right.

I also tend to be less sympathetic to the fan who might have been with his family, or around young children in the sense that Noah was enticed and baited by something negative.

Doesn't make what Noah said right, but the "he might be around his family" rational carries less weight when you make the assumption that the fan said something pretty nasty to Noah in order to get bait him into yelling something back. That person wasn't sparing his kids or other kids ears when he baited Noah in the first place. :shrug:

Jaji
05-23-2011, 06:22 PM
I'm just glad he didn't get suspended. Not only do I like Noah but I also don't wanna hear any excuses blowing in that Chicago wind.

Bruno
05-23-2011, 06:23 PM
I don't mean to come off as defending Noah, I really don't care about his fine. I just think there's blame to go around and that a collective group effort could curb situations like this from turning into such a regular thing.

If were being real, no petty fine will keep young emotional men from using the same profanity in the future. The adults in the booth need to wise up too.

mttwlsn16
05-23-2011, 06:23 PM
still dont think he should be fined, bc obviously its taken out of context. he didnt mean it as a homophobic slur, but ever knew he'd be fined. with the money kobe makes, and his star status, i think its fair that noah's fine was half kobe's

Lakers + Giants
05-23-2011, 06:27 PM
It's fair. Kobe is a superstar, so he had to be fined much more. Also, kobe yelled it across the court and everyone heard it. 50,000 fine for Noah is much more than 100,000 for mamba.

Jaji
05-23-2011, 06:27 PM
still dont think he should be fined, bc obviously its taken out of context. he didnt mean it as a homophobic slur, but ever knew he'd be fined. with the money kobe makes, and his star status, i think its fair that noah's fine was half kobe's

:facepalm:

Its not necessarily about aiming it at homosexuals. Its using a term for gay people as an insult. It would have been less offensive if it were aimed at a gay person because that would offend that one person. But to use it in the place of 'jerk' or ':moon: hole' now the whole gay community or whatever is offended. If you can't understand that I don't know what to think about you. Its really not that hard to comprehend.

pd1dish
05-23-2011, 06:28 PM
most people in this thread really dont know what they're talking about. when it comes to fines, they take into account player salary and whats fair to fine that player. fining Kobe $100,000 who makes a total of $24.8 million this season is not the same as fining Noah $100,000 who makes just over $3.1 million this season. if fines were universal for all players with different salaries, then a player making close to league minimum would lose 50% of their yearly salary.

also, Kobe is a high profile player, and as we all know, high profile players are treated much differently than the average player. in Kobe's case, they may have even been trying to make an example of him.

PLUS THIS:



To clarify the difference, this was posted in regards to Kobe's fine being higher.

AlexKennedyNBA Alex Kennedy
by AdamZagoria
For those wondering, Kobe Bryant's fine was $50,000 more than Joakim Noah's because he was docked extra for "verbally abusing an official."

good find there and if anyone is still *****ing about this, you really need to get over it.

Hustlenomics
05-23-2011, 06:34 PM
lol @ fining him 50K for saying a word at a lame fan. Stern is ridiculous

showtym24
05-23-2011, 06:35 PM
Fans dont mean anything to the nba i guess.

12evolution 9
05-23-2011, 06:43 PM
listen the facts are this... yes kobe makes more than noah


so does the person who lives in the Gables and i live in a decent but not as nice or large or exquisite as the person who lives in the Gables.

So when he breaks the law he will not be charged more because he makes more. he will be charged the same as me ...

... because when there are laws or rules... it provides equality....

Noah said it to a FAN ... Kobe said it to a REF... Imo attacking the customer of the NBA product should never be allowed, you can defend yourself and maybe note to the fan to not be so disrespectful the same way Lebron took care of the situation when he went back to cleveland.

BUT TO say something to a fan of the game should never be allowed ... but instead ... he gets charged less then KOBE

Catfish1314
05-23-2011, 06:43 PM
Fine is fair. Kobe was "provoked" by a ref doing his job. Whether he was doing his job properly or not, he was doing his job.

Noah was being provoked by a fan who apparently was talking **** about his mother. As inappropriate as his reaction was, you have to admit there is more justification behind his reaction than Kobe's.

Gibby23
05-23-2011, 06:45 PM
Fine is fair. Kobe was "provoked" by a ref doing his job. Whether he was doing his job properly or not, he was doing his job.

Noah was being provoked by a fan who apparently was talking **** about his mother. As inappropriate as his reaction was, you have to admit there is more justification behind his reaction than Kobe's.

You still don't get it. The NBA is saying you can not justify using that slur. There is no good reason to use it.

Catfish1314
05-23-2011, 06:49 PM
You still don't get it. The NBA is saying you can not justify using that slur. There is no good reason to use it.

You don't get it. :rolleyes:

Kobe yelled it across the damn court because he wasn't getting his pouty little way. This drunk-*** fan was talking **** about Noah's mother.

There is NO justification for using that slur, but based on the facts who deserves the bigger fine?

smith&wesson
05-23-2011, 06:51 PM
I don't mean to come off as defending Noah, I really don't care about his fine. I just think there's blame to go around and that a collective group effort could curb situations like this from turning into such a regular thing.

If were being real, no petty fine will keep young emotional men from using the same profanity in the future. The adults in the booth need to wise up too.

So basically noah is a child and needs adults to make decisions for him ? lets say that fan was a drunken idiot, does noah have to lower himself from being a role model to the level of a drunken loser ?

Gibby23
05-23-2011, 06:52 PM
You don't get it. :rolleyes:

Kobe yelled it across the damn court because he wasn't getting his pouty little way. This drunk-*** fan was talking **** about Noah's mother.

There is NO justification for using that slur, but based on the facts who deserves the bigger fine?

It's based on pay grade. Kobe is one of the faces of the NBA and makes about 8 times more than Noah in NBA salary alone and Noah still got the short end of the stick % wise.

DaBear
05-23-2011, 06:53 PM
The fan should have been ejected or gotten his *** kicked. Let's see him go up to Noah and say whatever he said to his face. He probably doesn't know what a defensive 3 second violation is, just like 70% of the fans there.

Gibby23
05-23-2011, 06:54 PM
The fan should have been ejected or gotten his *** kicked. Let's see him go up to Noah and say whatever he said to his face. He probably doesn't know what a defensive 3 second violation is, just like 70% of the fans there.

He knows how to pay money and buy a ticket.

smith&wesson
05-23-2011, 06:54 PM
You don't get it. :rolleyes:

Kobe yelled it across the damn court because he wasn't getting his pouty little way. This drunk-*** fan was talking **** about Noah's mother.

There is NO justification for using that slur, but based on the facts who deserves the bigger fine?

noah is an employee of the nba. kobe is an employee of the nba. both were suspended for acting unprofessional. the difference is kobe did what he did to anotehr employee and noah did it to a customer. both are bad. one is worst then the other. noah is lucky he was the one to get the smaller fine. if the fan was saying things about noahs mother then security should def have removed him from the arena as well.

Jaji
05-23-2011, 07:01 PM
You don't get it. :rolleyes:

Kobe yelled it across the damn court because he wasn't getting his pouty little way. This drunk-*** fan was talking **** about Noah's mother.

There is NO justification for using that slur, but based on the facts who deserves the bigger fine?

Joakim because Kobe just got fined $100k for the same exact phrase recently. Joakim's is worse because of sheer stupidity. Kobe's incident is still fresh in everyone's mind. Why would he be so dumb to say the same thing? The exact same thing. Verbatim. He obviously knew better. Its like Bill Belichick filming the Jets walkthrough the day after getting a memo from the league to stop. Just dumb. And you can't lose your cool like that to a fan. Ever. "He who controls your anger controls you." Can't wait to hear what the fans are gonna say to him tomorrow night. Hope he's able to keep his cool.

IMO Joakim's was worse, but as far as the fine goes, Kobe's salary was 8x what Joakim's was so I don't really have a problem with it. $50k is still A LOT of money and that $50k will hurt Noah way more than that $100k hurt the Mamba.

Bruno
05-23-2011, 07:02 PM
So basically noah is a child and needs adults to make decisions for him ? lets say that fan was a drunken idiot, does noah have to lower himself from being a role model to the level of a drunken loser ?

No. Read the rest of my posts in this thread.

smith&wesson
05-23-2011, 07:02 PM
The fan should have been ejected or gotten his *** kicked. Let's see him go up to Noah and say whatever he said to his face. He probably doesn't know what a defensive 3 second violation is, just like 70% of the fans there.

you asume that noah can fight because he is tall ?? if anderson silva wasnt famous and you saw him walk down the street could you tell that he was a professional fighter ? im willing to bet a 5 foot 10 amature fighter would kill this guy in a fight.

Badluck33
05-23-2011, 07:08 PM
you asume that noah can fight because he is tall ?? if anderson silva wasnt famous and you saw him walk down the street could you tell that he was a professional fighter ? im willing to bet a 5 foot 10 amature fighter would kill this guy in a fight.

He's got reach and no speed. Footwork is also bad. I think I have a good chance.

34Dayz
05-23-2011, 07:13 PM
Quit making excuses for the dude, when your making 1,000,000+ a year you have no reason to be cursing at fan's.

I think fine should of matched Kobe's but I guess its fair enough.

I love Boozer crying about fan's talking trash boo hoo im making 10 million a year dont call me names...

DoubleDragon
05-23-2011, 07:19 PM
Not enough. Should have been at least the same as Kobe's fine

Yes.
Status Quo

dnewguy
05-23-2011, 07:19 PM
Does anyone know where all this fines Stern has been collecting go?

ManRam
05-23-2011, 07:25 PM
Does anyone know where all this fines Stern has been collecting go?

Charity.

Heater4life
05-23-2011, 07:29 PM
Charity.

Is it the "David Stern house in the Caman Islands Fund" or the "Whips for Commish charity group" ?

:D

LA_Raiders
05-23-2011, 07:30 PM
too much hate for the black mamba

Skins4Life
05-23-2011, 07:53 PM
I agree with the fine, but let me ask you guys something- do you think the word "f a ggot" has lost its connotation with homosexuality, because I think it has, and to me its just like one of the dozens of words that people use just to insult someone not in a particular manner of implying anything but malice.

rabueed
05-23-2011, 08:02 PM
My thing is that he should have been fined the same as Kobe, no more or less.

Let's take an example:

When a player gets a technical foul, he is fined a fixed sum regardless of his earnings. I think, if I recall, it goes the same way with ref complaints by coaches, players, etc. as well as any fines.

It should be the same damn way with this too. No one should be treated differently in the matter regardless of who it's directed at or how much they make. It's not as if the word is taken less seriously because it didn't come out of Kobe's mouth....oh wait, it is. :facepalm:

NBAfan4life
05-23-2011, 08:09 PM
Directing this at a fan is much worse than an official.

Chill_Will_24
05-23-2011, 08:11 PM
This subject is way too touchy

rmonte4
05-23-2011, 08:18 PM
Thats just crazy. Kobe makes like 3 times what Noah makes. What if a guy like Trey Johonson from the Lakers did this, he only made about 150k. Im sure he would have been fined about 10k.

THIS. End of discussion.

quade36
05-23-2011, 08:19 PM
easy with the high and mighty attitudes. Dude apologized and admitted he was wrong less than 24 hours later. I doubt James or Bosh would have been so apologetic. I could be wrong. But they don't strike me as stars who actually care about what fans think of them.

rmonte4
05-23-2011, 08:21 PM
Also, Anyone that says he should have been suspended is f'in CRAZY. Stupid skip bayless.

pd1dish
05-23-2011, 08:24 PM
listen the facts are this... yes kobe makes more than noah


so does the person who lives in the Gables and i live in a decent but not as nice or large or exquisite as the person who lives in the Gables.

So when he breaks the law he will not be charged more because he makes more. he will be charged the same as me ...

... because when there are laws or rules... it provides equality....

Noah said it to a FAN ... Kobe said it to a REF... Imo attacking the customer of the NBA product should never be allowed, you can defend yourself and maybe note to the fan to not be so disrespectful the same way Lebron took care of the situation when he went back to cleveland.

BUT TO say something to a fan of the game should never be allowed ... but instead ... he gets charged less then KOBE

you still dont get it.......

in the NBA, when a fine is given, player salary DOES come into play. your right, our Judicial system does not take into account a person's salary when he/she commits a crime, but the NBA does so thats not a valid argument. you could use that argument for suspensions because a 3 game suspension is the exact same for any player, but a fine is different. if fines were the same for everyone, then it would one of the two following effects:

1. if you actually want high paid players to be affected by fines, they would bankrupt low paid players.

2. if you wanted low paid players fined more fairly, it wouldnt even affect high paid players.

you have to have a system that takes into account how much a player makes. end of story

NetsPaint
05-23-2011, 08:38 PM
Kenny Smith referred to Charles Barkley as a blimp last night and was not charged for an anti-heavy slur.

KnicksR4Real
05-23-2011, 08:57 PM
^^^^^ 6 dude the nba cant control what chucl says

ChicagooooBulls
05-23-2011, 09:12 PM
looks fair to me. yelling at a ref is worse than a fan that is heckling. obviously shouldn't have happened but I think they got it right

DenButsu
05-23-2011, 09:27 PM
I was very glad and encouraged to see that Noah himself well understands what I posted about in the first thread (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17990198&postcount=62), and what many who are defending his use of the word "f-----" still can't - or won't - grasp. That using that word to mean "jerk" or "idiot" or "***hole" is indeed a slur against gay people, even if it's not hurled directly at one with that intent.



Joakim Noah: 'That's not who I am'
May, 23, 2011
By Kevin Arnovitz

Joakim Noah hurled a gay slur at a fan at the Eastern Conference finals' Game 3 in Miami.

When Chicago Bulls center Joakim Noah was caught on camera Sunday night appearing to hurl the word "f-----" at an obnoxious fan, it was particularly heartbreaking.

Noah grew up in Manhattan's Soho, steps from the West Village. His childhood could scarcely have been more worldly; he literally attended the United Nations International School. His mother is Cecilia Rodhe, a sculptor and art therapist from Sweden, and his father is Frenchman Yannick Noah, who is also of Cameroonian descent.

Rodhe's best friend was Robert Tracy, a prolific writer and dancer whose partner was Rudolf Nureyev, one of the most talented ballet dancers of the 20th century. Tracy was with Rodhe the day she learned she was pregnant with Joakim. To young Joakim, Tracy -- who died in 2007 -- was simply known as "Mom," and was a frequent presence at Noah's basketball games.

This is the world Joakim grew up in and one he remains extremely close to. After his disappointing on-court performance in Game 3 -- and before he realized a storm was brewing about the slur he unleashed -- Noah had already texted his mother.

When word of the epithet reached Rodhe she was shocked. "My kids grew up in a home that was never anything other than open-minded," Rodhe says in a phone interview. "We're multicultural and multiracial."

Rodhe, the founder of Joakim's Noah's Arc Foundation, was admittedly disappointed, though she rationalized the context. "He chose the wrong word," Rodhe says. "He wanted to say, 'Move away and stop harassing me,' but he lost control and used that word."

Noah was contrite on Monday, apologizing profusely for hurling the epithet. As we sat down to talk at the team hotel on Monday, Noah, knowing I was an out, gay sportswriter, opened the conversation with "I'm really sorry about what I said." The discussion continues from there:

Kevin Arnovitz: I understand. I just wish it hadn't been you. I mean, that word is hard to hear no matter who says it, but you're supposed to be one of the enlightened guys. You're the guy who grew up in Soho and has European parents and friends all over the world. There are a lot of players in the league who, whether because they come from certain backgrounds or maybe choose not to care, don't surprise me. But you surprised me.

Noah: You know, all my best friends live downtown in New York City. I was made in Soho. Sometimes, when you're at this level you don't realize the consequences or how much a word can bother people. My mom's best friend was gay. We used to call him "Mom." So I'm disappointed because that's not me. I didn't mean any harm to anybody. I don't want anyone to feel disrespected by what I said, and I understand that's what's going to happen.

Arnovitz: Did you get any texts for people in your New York life? People who were, like, what the --

Noah: No. Not really. [The fan] said something -- I mean, I don't even want to say it -- but he said something about my mother. I just said what I had to say and I didn't even realize until after the game when I started getting texts and people started talking about it.

Arnovitz: F----- is one of those words people claim doesn't mean gay man. That somehow it's not denigrating to gay men because it's generic. Do you fall in that camp? Do you use f----- because there's nothing more insulting than insinuating someone on the basketball court is gay?

Noah: Sometimes you just get caught up. Now that we're talking about it and analyzing it, you know, it's even more disappointing. It's disappointing because I'm not like that.

Arnovitz: So it's safe to say you're really pissed off at yourself? Moderately pissed off at yourself? Pissed off at the potential consequences?

Noah: I'm pissed off that I'm a distraction to my teammates right now. We're playing the biggest game of our lives and this is off subject. I'm pissed off that I might've offended people.

Arnovitz: You realize you did offend people, right?

Noah: That's what I'm saying.

Arnovitz: Cool. It's just that sometimes public people when they say something they shouldn't will couch it as "I'm sorry if I offended anyone," emphasis on the if. When it's pretty definitive.

Noah: That's what I'm saying. I'm pissed off at myself because that's not who I am.

Arnovitz: Who are you?

Noah: Who am I?

Arnovitz: In the context of the league and the 400 or so guys who play in it. Who are you?

Noah: It's not for me to say. At the end of the day, people are going to say whatever they want. Who am I? It depends on who you ask. Everybody's opinion is different. I know who I am.

Arnovitz: How homophobic is an NBA locker room?

Noah: Not at all.

Arnovitz: But f----- is tossed around without people even thinking about it?

Noah: Exactly. But a lot less than you probably think.

Arnovitz: I guess that's encouraging. Does that mean we're ready for an out gay ballplayer?

Noah: No question. No question. If you look at the percentages, there have to be gay players in the NBA.

Arnovitz: But this could make it harder for them.

Noah: I know. And that's not who I am.espn (http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/29445/joakim-noah-thats-not-who-i-am)

SP17
05-23-2011, 09:31 PM
Maybe the reason its a lower pay because of the difference in salary with kobe?

bearadonisdna
05-23-2011, 10:13 PM
fine is bs. he should appeal it. he shouldnt have to put up with insults from a pathetic fan.

Tony_Starks
05-23-2011, 10:31 PM
THIS JUST IN: on espn during the Mavs game they said the fan that started it was talking about Noahs Mom. The fine is completely ridiculous. You can talk about someone's Mom and thats cool but they have to be politically correct in how they respond? Get the hell outta here! And please don't give me that "but he's a fan" garbage, he's still held to a standard of deceny fan or no fan.

Catfish1314
05-23-2011, 11:30 PM
Joakim because Kobe just got fined $100k for the same exact phrase recently. Joakim's is worse because of sheer stupidity. Kobe's incident is still fresh in everyone's mind. Why would he be so dumb to say the same thing? The exact same thing. Verbatim. He obviously knew better. Its like Bill Belichick filming the Jets walkthrough the day after getting a memo from the league to stop. Just dumb. And you can't lose your cool like that to a fan. Ever. "He who controls your anger controls you." Can't wait to hear what the fans are gonna say to him tomorrow night. Hope he's able to keep his cool.

IMO Joakim's was worse, but as far as the fine goes, Kobe's salary was 8x what Joakim's was so I don't really have a problem with it. $50k is still A LOT of money and that $50k will hurt Noah way more than that $100k hurt the Mamba.

IMO Kobe's was worse. Yes the NBA should protect its fans, but it should also do that under the assumption its fans will show some semblance of class and respect when they attend an NBA event. This fan wasn't. According to Bulls players, he was drunk and made a complete *** of himself. Yes Noah should have turned the other cheek. But he's human. Human males generally do not respond well when their mothers are insulted.

Kobe had a call that didn't go his way. So he basically threw a verbal temper tantrum. He wasn't really responding to anything justifiable. Noah answered words with words of his own.

And he absolutely will be able to keep his cool. He's played very well on the road against Boston and Cleveland and Heat fans can't possibly hate him more than Celtics and Cavs fans. He's used to the boos. He's probably not used to people dogging his family.

rapjuicer06
05-24-2011, 08:28 AM
Do we even know what the fan said? How can we justify Noah's actions by assuming his?

Fans should be held to a lesser standard than professional NBA athletes. These athletes are expected to be acting professional. These fans don't have to live up to the same standard. There are stadium regulations, and if he violated them he should have been removed...but heckling players often isn't a violation of stadium rules.

Even Boozer said fans have the right to say what they want to the players :shrug:

maybe if the camera guy would have gotten the fan on film as well this wouldn't have been blown up so much. you said maybe the fan was amongst kids and he's shouting at a player pissing him off that much, how much of a role model is he? what if kids are around and he's doing that? then the kids around that grow up and do that too if he wasn't put in his place? look i work somewhere, where we have a TON of customers. commercial, government, you name it. if a customer comes in here and is a complete dick head to me, or is just going off and off and off, i probably would tell the mother ****er to shut his God damn mouth. then i would get in contact with his employeer and ask for someone else to be sent out because of this *******. happens ALL the time here. if customers are *******s, maybe losing that customer is ok. shouldn't be associated with people that send out other people like that to buy a contract.

mikealike305
05-24-2011, 09:31 AM
U know what i dont get...... The nbas gay commercial on not saying "thats so gay" cuz its hurtful to gay ppl. Did gay ppl make this commercial or did stright ppl? Cuz having 2 gay sister, i know many gay ppl. And they themselves say "thats so gay" or "what a ***" so do gay ppl really do get hurt by this? Plus i mostly play ball with ppl i know, and i know they arnt gay, so how would saying "thats so gay" when their arnt any gay ppl around to hear it, hurt them?

HouRealCoach
05-24-2011, 10:03 AM
Where Im from we use gay and ****** like its nothing... I too much didnt care for what Noah said

But the NBA seems that their really against the anti-gay's

HouRealCoach
05-24-2011, 10:06 AM
U know what i dont get...... The nbas gay commercial on not saying "thats so gay" cuz its hurtful to gay ppl. Did gay ppl make this commercial or did stright ppl? Cuz having 2 gay sister, i know many gay ppl. And they themselves say "thats so gay" or "what a ***" so do gay ppl really do get hurt by this? Plus i mostly play ball with ppl i know, and i know they arnt gay, so how would saying "thats so gay" when their arnt any gay ppl around to hear it, hurt them?

Thats what Im saying... Alotta people dont like the word n!Gg@ but it doesnt offend most black people

Its not that big of a deal to me

koLohe2133
05-24-2011, 10:22 AM
Basically stern is saying that the refs are more important than the fans.

IMO noah's is worse, on the simple fact that EVERY PLAYER SAW WHAT HAPPENED TO KOBE.

If it was based on how much he gets paid, I'm sorry but that's ridiculous....

But then again, that is a representation of our judicial system.

rapjuicer06
05-24-2011, 11:23 AM
U know what i dont get...... The nbas gay commercial on not saying "thats so gay" cuz its hurtful to gay ppl. Did gay ppl make this commercial or did stright ppl? Cuz having 2 gay sister, i know many gay ppl. And they themselves say "thats so gay" or "what a ***" so do gay ppl really do get butt hurt by this? Plus i mostly play ball with ppl i know, and i know they arnt gay, so how would saying "thats so gay" when their arnt any gay ppl around to hear it, hurt them?

:D had to

mikealike305
05-24-2011, 11:27 AM
:D had to

lmao nice

rapjuicer06
05-24-2011, 11:32 AM
Basically stern is saying that the refs are more important than the fans.

IMO noah's is worse, on the simple fact that EVERY PLAYER SAW WHAT HAPPENED TO KOBE.

If it was based on how much he gets paid, I'm sorry but that's ridiculous....

But then again, that is a representation of our judicial system.

kobe was being a douche by saying all of that over a call he didn't get. a fan verbally attacked him and his mom. you just don't do that. its like a fan comes in with a gun shoots at this guy but he has to have the poise to just ignore it...(waaaaaaaaaaay exaggerated i know) but still, fans and players are both people. i don't understand why people ***** that players get away with everything in one sense, saying they should be just like everyone else...but when it comes to **** like this, oooh, they should be better composed. **** that noise. he's human. if someone came at me and started talking **** about my mom i'd probably go off too

conv23
05-24-2011, 11:32 AM
If kobe got 100K for insulting a ref who at times deserve it then Noah should get the same or more for insulting a fan who at the end of the day pay his salary.

mikealike305
05-24-2011, 11:36 AM
i get the whole "hes human, if it was me i would go off to" argument, i get that cuz i have a very short fuse and lose my temper fast, but..... i dont get paid millions a year to play a sport i love to play. therefore we cant compare them, to us. we are all humans with emotion, but some ppl are held to different standards than others

1hardcore
05-24-2011, 11:38 AM
If he had come out and said something else like " ****en goof " then i think he may get lesser penalty...........

anything "gay" like would've been a huge circus......

DenButsu
05-24-2011, 12:16 PM
U know what i dont get...... The nbas gay commercial on not saying "thats so gay" cuz its hurtful to gay ppl. Did gay ppl make this commercial or did stright ppl? Cuz having 2 gay sister, i know many gay ppl. And they themselves say "thats so gay" or "what a ***" so do gay ppl really do get hurt by this? Plus i mostly play ball with ppl i know, and i know they arnt gay, so how would saying "thats so gay" when their arnt any gay ppl around to hear it, hurt them?

Your first false assumption: Only gay people could be offended by anti-gay bigotry. And actually, if you really do have two gay sisters, I'm surprised you're not hip to this. But if a white person says "n-----" to deride someone in a group of all white people, you can pretty much bet your *** that some of them will be offended, provided they're not at a KKK rally or skinhead meeting. Most, I'd hope, would say, "Dude, what the **** did you say that for?" The only thing you don't realize is that you haven't caught up with history yet. The tide has already turned. You may happen to be living in a corner of the world where it's still socially acceptable (and I am too), but things have already come way too far for that not to change in the very near future.

Your second false assumption: Because some gay people use the words "gay" or "f-----" in a derogatory way, straight people are justified in doing the same thing. And I'll go back to the word, which everyone knows is commonly used in music and in slang among black people, "n-----". To me, and I think many would agree, if gay people want to "claim" the word "f-----" so they can own and disempower it, or if black people want to do the same with "n-----", or if Latinos want to do the same with "s---" (etc.), then that's their choice. But since I'm not among the people who can be discriminated against, disempowered, or demeaned by the use of those words, it's really not my place to use them.

And at the risk of repeating myself, I'm going to re-post what I wrote in the first thread:

------------------------

Calling a gay person a f----- to demean them based on their sexuality is direct, blatant bigotry. And no matter what anyone thinks about what Noah and Kobe said, I think we can all agree that this is not what they did. Which makes the situation a little more nuanced and complicated.

And because their statements were not overt bigotry directly aimed at gays, many people think it was all right for them to say it. Many people think that, because they used the word "f-----" with the intended meaning of "idiot" or "***hole" that it's not that big a deal, that there's nothing (or at least not much) wrong with it.

And that's what I'm disagreeing with. There is something wrong with it.

And to be specific, what's wrong with it is that the word "f-----" is essentially a derogatory slur for gay people, no matter what context it's being used in, just like the word "n-----" is essentially a derogatory slur for black people, and even though it's sometimes used to mean "brother" (etc.), that doesn't alter or dilute the essence of the word -- in its origins, and in the common vernacular understanding of it -- as a bigoted slur.

So, using the word "f-----" to mean "idiot" or "***hole", while it's not directly intended to demean a specific person for their sexuality or gays in general, is, in fact, an indirectly bigoted thing to say, because what's really being said is that to be a "f-----" is equivalent to being an "idiot" or an "***hole", that to be a "f-----" is a terrible, despicable, undesirable thing to be.

Even if a person doesn't process all of that consciously when using the word in that way, what they're really communicating -- the inescapable subtext of their message -- is that, really, it's okay to say that all "f------" are "***holes" and "idiots".

Now, if they really believe that, then they're just flat out homophobic bigots.Their condoning of the use of the word "f-----" as a derogatory term is precisely equal to condoning using derogatory terms to refer to gay people. It is flat out bigotry.

Hopefully that's not the case for Kobe, Noah, or any of the posters here.

But if they don't believe that - if in their heart they really have no prejudice or animosity towards gay people - but they still persist in using "f-----" as an insult, then they're just being ignorant of the fact that that use of the word is a hurtful, offensive thing to do. And no, ignorance does not get them off the hook. (And Noah, by his own admission, cannot and does not attempt to plead ignorance). And ultimately, it is still a latent, if not malicious, expression of anti-gay bigotry, because the equation remains the same.

And, I'd hope, they'd have the self awareness to want to stop using it in that way once they came to understand that.

------------------------

nickster16301
05-24-2011, 12:40 PM
he shouldnt of been fined anything the fan was probably being a ***...so he let him know it

rapjuicer06
05-24-2011, 12:53 PM
so you can't call anyone an ***, because donkey's might be offended. you can't call anyone a ***** because female dogs might be offended. you can't call someone a loser because the losers might be offended. you can't call anyone an idiot, because politicians might be offended........where is the line drawn here folks?

Atticus Finch
05-24-2011, 01:13 PM
THIS JUST IN: on espn during the Mavs game they said the fan that started it was talking about Noahs Mom. The fine is completely ridiculous. You can talk about someone's Mom and thats cool but they have to be politically correct in how they respond? Get the hell outta here! And please don't give me that "but he's a fan" garbage, he's still held to a standard of deceny fan or no fan.

So if someone says something bad about your mom that gives you the right to use anti-homophobic slurs without any consequence? How about Noah does what every other basketball player does during a nightly basis and ignore what the fans say?

Tony_Starks
05-24-2011, 01:24 PM
So if someone says something bad about your mom that gives you the right to use anti-homophobic slurs without any consequence? How about Noah does what every other basketball player does during a nightly basis and ignore what the fans say?


How about Noah is not a robot but an actual person with emotions who made a mistake? Big deal. Everyone is acting all high and mighty like they never said something that they later regretted in the heat of the moment.

He said he's sorry, he's been fined, move on. No need for the whole gay alliance to get all butt hurt over this.

But hey I got the answer, I think the gay alliance, PETA, and Al Sharpton should form their own big 3 and monitor the world. The world would be such a better place!

Atticus Finch
05-24-2011, 03:02 PM
How about Noah is not a robot but an actual person with emotions who made a mistake? Big deal. Everyone is acting all high and mighty like they never said something that they later regretted in the heat of the moment.

He said he's sorry, he's been fined, move on. No need for the whole gay alliance to get all butt hurt over this.

But hey I got the answer, I think the gay alliance, PETA, and Al Sharpton should form their own big 3 and monitor the world. The world would be such a better place!

I never said he couldn't make a mistake, but the fact is he did and as a result had to face the consequences. The fine was handed down less than 24 hours ago, don't be upset that people aren't moving on as fast as you want them to. And it's funny, you want an entire group of people to get over it, and yet somehow excuse Noah for not getting over the insult to his mom. So let me get it straight, it's ok if someone insults your mom and the first thing you resort to is a homophobic slur, but it's not ok to be upset if you're gay and a basketball player on national TV just called a fan a f@g, nice double standard there.

And I'm pretty sure you dont speak for GLAAD so you're really not in the position to tell them to not get butt hurt, it's not an isolated incident. A month ago Kobe was caught saying it, a year before that Kenyon Martin was caught on film saying it, and before him Allen Iverson was caught on film saying it...all "in the heat of the moment." Add that to the Atlanta pitching coach a couple weeks ago, Ozzie Guillen calling Jay Mariotti a f@g, not to mention the who John Rocker debacle. How about Larry Johnson from the chiefs doing it twice in a week in 2009? I think they have every reason in the world to be upset about it. We have athletes that continue to use homophobic slurs on a national level and they are met with people like you who tell them to just get over it. This issue isn't going anywhere until people in the public eye stop using slurs, it's as simple as that.

Tony_Starks
05-24-2011, 03:17 PM
I never said he couldn't make a mistake, but the fact is he did and as a result had to face the consequences. The fine was handed down less than 24 hours ago, don't be upset that people aren't moving on as fast as you want them to. And it's funny, you want an entire group of people to get over it, and yet somehow excuse Noah for not getting over the insult to his mom. So let me get it straight, it's ok if someone insults your mom and the first thing you resort to is a homophobic slur, but it's not ok to be upset if you're gay and a basketball player on national TV just called a fan a f@g, nice double standard there.

And I'm pretty sure you dont speak for GLAAD so you're really not in the position to tell them to not get butt hurt, it's not an isolated incident. A month ago Kobe was caught saying it, a year before that Kenyon Martin was caught on film saying it, and before him Allen Iverson was caught on film saying it...all "in the heat of the moment." Add that to the Atlanta pitching coach a couple weeks ago, Ozzie Guillen calling Jay Mariotti a f@g, not to mention the who John Rocker debacle. How about Larry Johnson from the chiefs doing it twice in a week in 2009? I think they have every reason in the world to be upset about it. We have athletes that continue to use homophobic slurs on a national level and they are met with people like you who tell them to just get over it. This issue isn't going anywhere until people in the public eye stop using slurs, it's as simple as that.



When I say "get over it" Im referring to the fact that he's apologized twice, been fined, situation is over, and the gay alliance is still basically saying "we want to see what else he's going to do." What else do you want him to do? Apologize to every gay person he meets in the street?

Not to mention that there is no longer any concept of context or intent. You call it a "slur" but I seriously doubt he was questioning the guys sexuality when he said it. As offended as it may make gay people, there's no way of getting around intent. Thats with any word. I just think its pretty presumptuous everytime a certain word is used, especially in the heat of battle to assume what was the intent behind it.

Im sure you (and GLAAD) don't care what the intent was and just want the word permanently banished but its not happening. They'll stop getting caught on camera with it but beyond that nothing is changing....

Atticus Finch
05-24-2011, 04:11 PM
When I say "get over it" Im referring to the fact that he's apologized twice, been fined, situation is over, and the gay alliance is still basically saying "we want to see what else he's going to do." What else do you want him to do? Apologize to every gay person he meets in the street?

Not to mention that there is no longer any concept of context or intent. You call it a "slur" but I seriously doubt he was questioning the guys sexuality when he said it. As offended as it may make gay people, there's no way of getting around intent. Thats with any word. I just think its pretty presumptuous everytime a certain word is used, especially in the heat of battle to assume what was the intent behind it.

Im sure you (and GLAAD) don't care what the intent was and just want the word permanently banished but its not happening. They'll stop getting caught on camera with it but beyond that nothing is changing....

Is the situation over though? Several major news outlets, including ESPN and Yahoo sports took the position of semi-defending Noah while blaming the fan and the league and asking for punishment for the fan, while plenty of people are blaming the gay community because they perceive them as being overly sensitive. Some people are even blaming the network for showing an athlete when he is visibly upset, yet almost nobody is blaming the one person responsible, Noah.

Noah intended to insult the fan, so he called him a f@g. What's the big mystery here? Just because you don't find the word offensive, or just because you think it's ok to call someone a f@g when you're "in the heat of battle" doesn't mean that other people don't view it differently. Homosexuals don't want to be viewed as second class citizens, instances such as Noah's and Kobe's only further reinforce the idea that they are still considered inferior to heterosexuals. There's about 1 million words in Webster's dictionary and that doesn't include all slang, I'm pretty sure Noah could find one or two words in there that don't put down an entire group of people.

After 5 minutes of searching on google I was able to find FOUR different people who were murdered in Miami in the year 2011 because they happened to be gay (a little less than one per month). If you still think that gays don't face regular discrimination, think about Vincent McGee (a black man) who murdered Richard Barrett (a notorious white supremacist) not becuase Barrett was racist, but because Barrett made homosexual advances on McGee.

It seems like everyone here is on the same page that saying n-gger, so why is it commonly accepted that n-gger is offensive yet there is room for debate when it comes to saying f@g? What's the difference?

DCB/LAL
05-24-2011, 04:24 PM
So Fans mean less to the game than the officials? Thanks for setting that straight NBA :clap:


And here I thought the Fans were what mattered most. :crazy:

Southsideheat
05-24-2011, 04:27 PM
So Fans mean less to the game than the officials? Thanks for setting that straight NBA :clap:


And here I thought the Fans were what mattered most. :crazy:

No, drunk ******* fans don't matter.

Tony_Starks
05-24-2011, 04:30 PM
Is the situation over though? Several major news outlets, including ESPN and Yahoo sports took the position of semi-defending Noah while blaming the fan and the league and asking for punishment for the fan, while plenty of people are blaming the gay community because they perceive them as being overly sensitive. Some people are even blaming the network for showing an athlete when he is visibly upset, yet almost nobody is blaming the one person responsible, Noah.

Noah intended to insult the fan, so he called him a f@g. What's the big mystery here? Just because you don't find the word offensive, or just because you think it's ok to call someone a f@g when you're "in the heat of battle" doesn't mean that other people don't view it differently. Homosexuals don't want to be viewed as second class citizens, instances such as Noah's and Kobe's only further reinforce the idea that they are still considered inferior to heterosexuals. There's about 1 million words in Webster's dictionary and that doesn't include all slang, I'm pretty sure Noah could find one or two words in there that don't put down an entire group of people.

After 5 minutes of searching on google I was able to find FOUR different people who were murdered in Miami in the year 2011 because they happened to be gay (a little less than one per month). If you still think that gays don't face regular discrimination, think about Vincent McGee (a black man) who murdered Richard Barrett (a notorious white supremacist) not becuase Barrett was racist, but because Barrett made homosexual advances on McGee.

It seems like everyone here is on the same page that saying n-gger, so why is it commonly accepted that n-gger is offensive yet there is room for debate when it comes to saying f@g? What's the difference?


There's even context and intent with that word. Example: during a game of Madden my white friend says N-word get outta here! I laugh. The context is we're having fun, and he has no malicious intent.

Scenario 2: While debating with a white guy he says "N word why don't you go back to Africa!" He gets his a.s.s beat. The context is not friendly and his intent is clearly a racial insult.

Same word, big difference.

midwestmadman
05-24-2011, 04:32 PM
i think its stupid. don't like what they say then keep the damn camera's off them when they're mad. ****ing bull **** if you ask me

I have to agree. It doesn't offend me in anyway (granted I am not a poo-pusher) but seriously I think sensitivity is going to far. It is killing everything. We can say ******** anymore (which is ********) we can say *** or any varition of it without someone being offended. I am a mexican apache indian, someone calls me a spic, wet back, pearl diver, redskin, scalper, etc I don't get offended, I may chop them with my hatchet but I don't get offended.:mad:

nolin
05-24-2011, 04:34 PM
noahs fine is what it should of been. no way should he have got fined as much as kobe. who said ****** to an official. who im sure was not heckling kobe. noahs was said to a fan. who obviously started talkin **** and saying who knows what to him. and im sure thats why the fines are this way

midwestmadman
05-24-2011, 04:35 PM
What was the fan fined?

Tony_Starks
05-24-2011, 04:37 PM
What was the fan fined?


I think they took away his beer and gave him a GLAAD T-shirt......

DCB/LAL
05-24-2011, 04:43 PM
No, drunk ******* fans don't matter.

Regardless he is a fan...he paid he ticket and paid for his beer which they sell there etc... If anything Noah should of been fined as much as Kobe if not MORE. Fans are what make the game..


How ironic is it that the reason Noah is getting fined in the first place is because it was shown on National TV thus being because fans everywhere were able to see what he said. Yet Kobe got fined more because he directed it to a Ref rather than a fan?

KnicksR4Real
05-24-2011, 04:45 PM
its ultimately the fans fault. i mean no offense to gay people. but i say this all the time. its part of the game. do we mean it? no. but its difficult to change

KnicksR4Real
05-24-2011, 04:45 PM
50,000 is plenty of money btw

KnicksR4Real
05-24-2011, 04:45 PM
:facepalm:so stop crying

Atticus Finch
05-24-2011, 05:02 PM
Is the situation over though? Several major news outlets, including ESPN and Yahoo sports took the position of semi-defending Noah while blaming the fan and the league and asking for punishment for the fan, while plenty of people are blaming the gay community because they perceive them as being overly sensitive. Some people are even blaming the network for showing an athlete when he is visibly upset, yet almost nobody is blaming the one person responsible, Noah.

Noah intended to insult the fan, so he called him a f@g. What's the big mystery here? Just because you don't find the word offensive, or just because you think it's ok to call someone a f@g when you're "in the heat of battle" doesn't mean that other people don't view it differently. Homosexuals don't want to be viewed as second class citizens, instances such as Noah's and Kobe's only further reinforce the idea that they are still considered inferior to heterosexuals. There's about 1 million words in Webster's dictionary and that doesn't include all slang, I'm pretty sure Noah could find one or two words in there that don't put down an entire group of people.

After 5 minutes of searching on google I was able to find FOUR different people who were murdered in Miami in the year 2011 because they happened to be gay (a little less than one per month). If you still think that gays don't face regular discrimination, think about Vincent McGee (a black man) who murdered Richard Barrett (a notorious white supremacist) not becuase Barrett was racist, but because Barrett made homosexual advances on McGee.

It seems like everyone here is on the same page that saying n-gger, so why is it commonly accepted that n-gger is offensive yet there is room for debate when it comes to saying f@g? What's the difference?


There's even context and intent with that word. Example: during a game of Madden my white friend says N-word get outta here! I laugh. The context is we're having fun, and he has no malicious intent.

Scenario 2: While debating with a white guy he says "N word why don't you go back to Africa!" He gets his a.s.s beat. The context is not friendly and his intent is clearly a racial insult.

Same word, big difference.

So then we both agree Noah's was scenario 2 right? It was an argument with a fan, the context was not friendly, and it was clearly meant as an offensive insult.

I understand the difference between context, the stuff you say around your friends is entirely different from your normal day to day language. My point was that Noah's was not some friendly context where he was having a good time with the fan, Noah was visibly heated and resorted to using the word as an insult. Strikingly similar context to Michael Richards calling a heckler during his standup routine a n_gger, except nobody gave Richards the benefit of the doubt by saying he was just in the heat of the moment.

Tony_Starks
05-24-2011, 05:19 PM
[QUOTE=Tony_Starks;18005433]

So then we both agree Noah's was scenario 2 right? It was an argument with a fan, the context was not friendly, and it was clearly meant as an offensive insult.

I understand the difference between context, the stuff you say around your friends is entirely different from your normal day to day language. My point was that Noah's was not some friendly context where he was having a good time with the fan, Noah was visibly heated and resorted to using the word as an insult. Strikingly similar context to Michael Richards calling a heckler during his standup routine a n_gger, except nobody gave Richards the benefit of the doubt by saying he was just in the heat of the moment.

I think the point you're missing is that when a white person uses that word as an insult to a black there is literally no other way to interpret it other than a racial slur. He's doesn't mean Im "an idiot." There's no ambiguity. It would be different if all races universally used the N word to insult each other in a synonymous way with "jerk" for example. That word in insult form from white to black is incredibly specific. Theres no doubt.

The difference is f@gg@t is universally used among all races as an insult, without any implication of sexual orientation. When someone says that word in a certain context, to a reasonable person there is at the very LEAST a doubt if they're referring to sexuality. Also when someone calls me the N word they know Im black for a fact, I can call you the F word and have no idea if your gay or not.....

Now is that right? Of course not. But my point is there's no comparison between the two, other than the words are generally offensive.

DenButsu
05-25-2011, 09:56 AM
[QUOTE=Atticus Finch;18005794]

I think the point you're missing is that when a white person uses that word as an insult to a black there is literally no other way to interpret it other than a racial slur. He's doesn't mean Im "an idiot." There's no ambiguity. It would be different if all races universally used the N word to insult each other in a synonymous way with "jerk" for example. That word in insult form from white to black is incredibly specific. Theres no doubt.

The difference is f@gg@t is universally used among all races as an insult, without any implication of sexual orientation. When someone says that word in a certain context, to a reasonable person there is at the very LEAST a doubt if they're referring to sexuality. Also when someone calls me the N word they know Im black for a fact, I can call you the F word and have no idea if your gay or not.....

Now is that right? Of course not. But my point is there's no comparison between the two, other than the words are generally offensive.

No comparison between the two?

Only if you deny that f----- is a bigoted term. And if you acknowledge that, then the comparison is obvious. More than obvious.

Your attempt at hair splitting (because it's bigotry that doesn't break down along racial lines, well it can't be racism, so how can it be bigotry?) is weak sauce at best.

When you use the word "f-----" to mean "***hole", the OBVIOUS implication is that "f-----s" are "***holes". I would ask, "What don't you get about that?" if I didn't think you were being deliberately obtuse.