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AllBall
05-23-2011, 03:07 PM
Manu Ginobili’s elbow injury appears to be more extensive than might have first been reported.

Ginobili told the Argentine website Noticiasmdq.com that he sustained a small fracture of the right humerus, the long bone in the arm that runs from the shoulder to the elbow. The injury occurred in the final game of the regular season on April 13 when he was trapped in a collision between Tim Duncan and Phoenix’s Grant Hill.

The Spurs originally announced that Ginobili sustained a sprained elbow. He missed the first game of the playoffs and then played the remaining five games with the injury in the six-game series loss to Memphis. He averaged a team-leading 20.6 points per game against the Grizzlies despite playing with a balky brace.

Read More: http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/05/22/did-manu-play-in-the-playoffs-with-a-broken-arm/

Wow, thats pretty crazy.

JordansBulls
05-23-2011, 03:09 PM
I'm sure he didn't have a broken arm, if he did he be screaming on the court from the pain whenever he got hit or shot the ball.

Sadds The Gr8
05-23-2011, 03:09 PM
ouch

Hustlenomics
05-23-2011, 03:11 PM
Rondo practically did the same against the Heat

Joshtd1
05-23-2011, 04:50 PM
I'm sure he didn't have a broken arm, if he did he be screaming on the court from the pain whenever he got hit or shot the ball.

He was grimmacing every time he did get hit on his arm...and no he wouldnt be screaming if its a hairline fracture.

DoJoTheSlasher
05-23-2011, 05:08 PM
Terry played with a broken neck, testicular cancer and a broken back along with a broken penis vs the Lakers.

Lakers + Giants
05-23-2011, 05:11 PM
Doesn't take anything away from what the grizzlies did. They were the better team, props to the grizz. /thread

KnicksR4Real
05-23-2011, 05:20 PM
so did rondo

smith&wesson
05-23-2011, 05:22 PM
if your arm is actually broken you wouldnt be able to move it in a shooting motion even if you were superman.

Giraffes Rule
05-23-2011, 05:40 PM
I like how everyone on PSD are doctors all of a sudden.

smith&wesson
05-23-2011, 05:51 PM
I like how everyone on PSD are doctors all of a sudden.

Have you had a broken arm before ? i have and it requires a cast. i beleive that he was injured. i dont beleive his arm is fully broken because if it is and he still played well then manu has to be immune to pain. its like trying to play with a broken leg. give me a break, you cant tell me you beleive any player can play with a broken arm or leg ..

FriedTofuz
05-23-2011, 05:58 PM
Terry played with a broken neck, testicular cancer and a broken back along with a broken penis vs the Lakers.

Thats great that terry is just as tough. As for the thread topic, MANU GINOBILI played through an injury that i believe got worse as he played. His condition got worse, as he played. I think many of us should applaud him for this. Is this nessasary? we arent trying to compare who is the bigger iron man.. broken penis? come on :facepalm:

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-23-2011, 06:00 PM
Terry played with a broken neck, testicular cancer and a broken back along with a broken penis vs the Lakers.

:confused:

DoJoTheSlasher
05-23-2011, 06:02 PM
:confused:

In more basic words, I call bull ****.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-23-2011, 06:03 PM
if your arm is actually broken you wouldnt be able to move it in a shooting motion even if you were superman.

hence the keywords:little fracture

KingPosey
05-23-2011, 06:04 PM
I like how everyone on PSD are doctors all of a sudden.

yep, thats PSD. They are all also nutritionists, Personal trainers, and know everything about steroids, as well as exactly who took them.

And they also know all of this without actually knowing any facts.

Giraffes Rule
05-23-2011, 06:08 PM
Have you had a broken arm before ? i have and it requires a cast. i beleive that he was injured. i dont beleive his arm is fully broken because if it is and he still played well then manu has to be immune to pain. its like trying to play with a broken leg. give me a break, you cant tell me you beleive any player can play with a broken arm or leg ..

"Broken" is a term that can be used to describe any bone fracture, it's just not the medically accurate term. You're describing a complete fracture, where the bone is broken all the way through. Ginobili, from what it sounds like, had a simple fracture. That's when the bone is fractured, but still connected. So yes, I do believe that it's possible to play with a broken bone.

mttwlsn16
05-23-2011, 06:24 PM
not a fan, but ginobili is a warrior. dude gives it 100% all the time

SteveNash
05-23-2011, 06:32 PM
Can you believe this guy finished 8th in the MVP race? What a warrior.

Mrphilly
05-23-2011, 07:09 PM
Playing with a broken bone is only heroic if you win. It just sounds like an excuse when you lose.

210Don
05-23-2011, 07:28 PM
guy is a warrior. sad they have a crap team around timmy and manu

smith&wesson
05-23-2011, 07:32 PM
hence the keywords:little fracture

look at the thread title what does it say ?

i said i beleived he was injured but not with a broken arm so what is your point exactly my man cuz i dont get it :confused: if the thread title is misleading that is not my problem. im not the op.

210Don
05-23-2011, 07:36 PM
look at the thread title what does it say ?

i said i beleived he was injured but not with a broken arm so what is your point exactly my man cuz i dont get it :confused: if the thread title is misleading that is not my problem. im not the op.

stop hating.

smith&wesson
05-23-2011, 07:37 PM
"Broken" is a term that can be used to describe any bone fracture, it's just not the medically accurate term. You're describing a complete fracture, where the bone is broken all the way through. Ginobili, from what it sounds like, had a simple fracture. That's when the bone is fractured, but still connected. So yes, I do believe that it's possible to play with a broken bone.

the thread title should be gino played with a minor fracture not a broken arm.
my statement was i beleive he was injured but not with a broken arm. if you and the op dont know the difference between a minor fracture and a broken arm should i be a little snot and call you ingnorant ??

i guess thats the difference between you and i . i can discuss a thread topic without getting a hard on by disrespecting someone i dont even know.

smith&wesson
05-23-2011, 07:38 PM
stop hating.

i love gino. not hating at all man. he one of my favourite players.

210Don
05-23-2011, 07:39 PM
i love gino. not hating at all man. he one of my favourite players.

k. but isnt something that is not totally intact broken?

smith&wesson
05-23-2011, 07:44 PM
k. but isnt something that is not totally intact broken?

If you had a minor fracture would you go tell all your friends you have a broken arm ?? a fracture and broken arm are two different thing .. im not hating on gino. i know he is a tough sob.

Giraffes Rule
05-23-2011, 07:57 PM
did you just call me ingnorant ? did i even come at you like that ?

the thread title should be gino played with a minor fracture not a broken arm.
my statement was i beleive he was injured but not with a broken arm. if you and the op dont know the difference between a minor fracture and a broken arm should i be a little snot and call you ingnorant ??

i guess thats the difference between you and i . i can discuss a thread topic without getting a hard on by disrespecting someone i dont even know.

You read the thread title, didn't read the article, and made your opinion off that. That's why your statements were ignorant. It's not an insult, but if you want to take offense that's your business.


If you had a minor fracture would you go tell all your friends you have a broken arm ?? a fracture and broken arm are two different things. if im wrong then i stand corrected. but im not hating on gino. i know he is a tough sob.

They aren't different things. A broken arm isn't a medical condition, they're all fractures. You get any kind of a fracture and you can say your broke your arm. A fracture is any break in the bone, whether it goes all the way through or not. So yes, it's correct to say that he broke his arm.

buch88
05-23-2011, 08:09 PM
Have you had a broken arm before ? i have and it requires a cast. i beleive that he was injured. i dont beleive his arm is fully broken because if it is and he still played well then manu has to be immune to pain. its like trying to play with a broken leg. give me a break, you cant tell me you beleive any player can play with a broken arm or leg ..

thats why he said it was a small hairline fracture.

smith&wesson
05-23-2011, 08:13 PM
Ignorant: lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact

You read the thread title, didn't read the article, and made your opinion off that. That's why your statements were ignorant. It's not an insult, but if you want to take offense that's your business.



They aren't different things. A broken arm isn't a medical condition, they're all fractures. You get any kind of a fracture and you can say your broke your arm. A fracture is any break in the bone, whether it goes all the way through or not. So yes, it's correct to say that he broke his arm.

i dont know how old you are but with the name "giraffes rule" im guessing that you are a child and theres no reason for me to lower myself to your level if your going to use the term ignorant towards another poster who has said nothing disrespectfull towards you at all...

doesnt matter how you try to manipulate the wording. a minor fracture is not a broken arm. if you have a minor fracture and you say you have a broken arm you are seriously exaggerating.

smith&wesson
05-23-2011, 08:16 PM
thats why he said it was a small hairline fracture.

true. but i find the title missleading and over exaggerated.

a hair line fracture and a broken arm are two different things. i rest my case.

Giraffes Rule
05-23-2011, 08:22 PM
i dont know how old you are but with the name "giraffes rule" im guessing that you are a child and theres no reason for me to lower myself to your level if your going to use the term ignorant towards another poster who has said nothing disrespectfull towards you at all...

:clap: Your ability to completely ignore the content of posts is amazing. A+ my friend.



doesnt matter how you try to manipulate the wording. a minor fracture is not a broken arm. if you have a minor fracture and you say you have a broken arm you are seriously exaggerating.

It's not manipulating the wording. Look it up, a fracture is any break in the bone. Broken arm doesn't have a set definition, so just because you take "broken arm" to mean a complete fracture doesn't mean other people do. Broken ribs are usually not fractured all the way through, but people call them broken all the time.

BUCSFORLIFE123
05-23-2011, 08:23 PM
if ginobili was healthy no doubt the spurs would have won. neither team could beat each other on the road

MrfadeawayJB
05-23-2011, 08:29 PM
Doesn't take anything away from what the grizzlies did. They were the better team, props to the grizz. /thread

:clap:

smith&wesson
05-23-2011, 08:30 PM
:clap: Your ability to completely ignore the content of posts is amazing. A+ my friend.



It's not manipulating the wording. Look it up, a fracture is any break in the bone. Broken arm doesn't have a set definition, so just because you take "broken arm" to mean a complete fracture doesn't mean other people do. Broken ribs are usually not fractured all the way through, but people call them broken all the time.

i ingored your definition of "ignorance" yes. because i know what it means and i also know that you use that term when you want to insult someone.

I understand that your saying his fracture could technically mean that his arm is not fully intact but i also understand the difference between someone breaking theyre arm and having a minor fracture. if you cant acept that simple concept i know that your just argueing with me for the sake of it. which really makes no sence to me.

in any case ill agree to disagree with you. i dont want you to come and throw shots at me because you cant have a normal conversation with out insulting me

Giraffes Rule
05-23-2011, 08:35 PM
i ingored your definition of "ignorance" yes. because i know what it means and i also know that you use that term when you want to insult someone.

That's the thing I'm telling you: I was not insulting you. You misunderstood the way I used the term ignorant. Your initial post was ignorant of the content of the article that this thread is about. Keep ignoring that if you want, but you know I'm right.



I understand that your saying his fracture could technically mean thats arm is not fully intact but i also understand the difference between someone breaking there arm and having a minor fracture. if you cant acept that simple consept i know that your just argueing with me for the sake of it. which really makes no sence to me.
Again, you don't understand what I'm saying. A fracture means the bone is broken. Period. That's not debatable, it's medical fact.



in any case ill agree to disagree with you. i dont want you to come and throw shots at me because you cant have a normal conversation with out insulting me
Again, I didn't throw any shots at you. You interpreted what I said incorrectly. You're the one calling me a child and trying to act all high and mighty to save face and detract attention from your general lack of knowledge of the situation.

smith&wesson
05-23-2011, 08:40 PM
That's the thing I'm telling you: I was not insulting you. You misunderstood the way I used the term ignorant. Your initial post was ignorant of the content of the article that this thread is about. Keep ignoring that if you want, but you know I'm right.


Again, you don't understand what I'm saying. A fracture means the bone is broken. Period. That's not debatable, it's medical fact.


Again, I didn't throw any shots at you. You interpreted what I said incorrectly. You're the one calling me a child and trying to act all high and mighty to save face and detract attention from your general lack of knowledge of the situation.


never mind...

Giraffes Rule
05-23-2011, 08:42 PM
lol your a clown bro. get off my dick ...

Very mature.

smith&wesson
05-23-2011, 08:52 PM
Very mature.

you lowered me to your level. you win. i lose.

you call someone ignorant and you want them to say your right man any fracture is considered a broken bone. when cleary i keep stating i understand what your saying but theres still a difference between a minor fracture and fully broken arm ... go back to my first statement. i said the same thing. you just want to keep talking in a condesending fashion. and then you get upset when somone does it to you.

my shift is done. im no longer getting paid to do this. so im out homie. have a good one man.

Knickrocketsfan
05-23-2011, 08:53 PM
plz dnt compare this to rondo. This new just makes it amazing he played the way he did in that series

Giraffes Rule
05-23-2011, 08:57 PM
you lowered me to your level. you win. i lose.

you call someone ignorant and you want them to say your right man any fracture is considered a broken bone. when cleary i keep stating i understand what your saying but theres still a difference between a minor fracture and fully broken arm ... go back to my first statement. i said the same thing. you just want to keep talking in a condesending fashion. and then you get upset when somone does it to you.
My point was that you didn't read the article and were saying that Ginobili didn't play with a broken arm. He did play with a broken arm, just not a complete fracture. That's why I said you were ignorant, because that was the textbook definition of ignorance. You made a statement without having any knowledge of the facts (the facts being everything in that article that you ignored).

I feel like I'm in an episode of Cops. Y'know, when the officer says "ignorance of the law isn't and excuse" and then the person freaks out on the cop because they don't know that saying someone is being ignorant isn't actually an insult.


my shift is done. im no longer getting paid to do this. so im out homie. have a good one man.

You're payed to make stuff up? Must work at ESPN.

Eagles4Lyfe
05-23-2011, 09:04 PM
Very mature.

Your the one whos having to result to name calling when the dude has been nothing but professional in his whole argument with you. Stop trying to act like a e-punk, because what he say's is true.
THE TITLE IS MISLEADING BECAUSE IT SAYS BROKEN and the article says SMALL FRACTURE. Is that so hard to comprehend for you??

Eagles4Lyfe
05-23-2011, 09:09 PM
My point was that you didn't read the article and were saying that Ginobili didn't play with a broken arm. He did play with a broken arm, just not a complete fracture. That's why I said you were ignorant, because that was the textbook definition of ignorance. You made a statement without having any knowledge of the facts (the facts being everything in that article that you ignored).

I feel like I'm in an episode of Cops. Y'know, when the officer says "ignorance of the law isn't and excuse" and then the person freaks out on the cop because they don't know that saying someone is being ignorant isn't actually an insult.


You're payed to make stuff up? Must work at ESPN.

Your on PSD if you use the word ignorant you get a infraction for it, it's life and sucks you can't use that word and it's the rules so don't be shocked if you get an infraction for that.

jockrider
05-23-2011, 09:11 PM
My point was that you didn't read the article and were saying that Ginobili didn't play with a broken arm. He did play with a broken arm, just not a complete fracture. That's why I said you were ignorant, because that was the textbook definition of ignorance. You made a statement without having any knowledge of the facts (the facts being everything in that article that you ignored).

I feel like I'm in an episode of Cops. Y'know, when the officer says "ignorance of the law isn't and excuse" and then the person freaks out on the cop because they don't know that saying someone is being ignorant isn't actually an insult.


You're payed to make stuff up? Must work at ESPN.

LMAO! that my friend is maturity at its finest:facepalm:

Giraffes Rule
05-23-2011, 09:11 PM
:facepalm: Ok, I'm done trying to explain what the word ignorant means to you people, since you obviously only recognize 1 definition. I apologize if you took it to mean that I was calling you stupid. That was not my intention. For future reference, the word ignorant is not always used as an insult. In fact, if I'm using it, it's not meant as an insult. I don't talk like that. If I want to call someone stupid, I have a lot of other words at my disposal to say that.

Eagles4Lyfe
05-23-2011, 09:18 PM
:facepalm: Ok, I'm done trying to explain what the word ignorant means to you people, since you obviously only recognize 1 definition. I apologize if you took it to mean that I was calling you stupid. That was not my intention. For future reference, the word ignorant is not always used as an insult. In fact, if I'm using it, it's not meant as an insult. I don't talk like that. If I want to call someone stupid, I have a lot of other words at my disposal to say that.

Have you heard of the word hypocrit??? It's just the same as ignorant you cant use it too loosely

Hawkeye15
05-23-2011, 09:19 PM
knock it off in here. Stop with the name calling, and talk about the situation. Thank you

Eagles4Lyfe
05-23-2011, 09:21 PM
Hawks to the rescue:p

Dnovakovic099
05-23-2011, 09:24 PM
you lowered me to your level. you win. i lose.

you call someone ignorant and you want them to say your right man any fracture is considered a broken bone. when cleary i keep stating i understand what your saying but theres still a difference between a minor fracture and fully broken arm ... go back to my first statement. i said the same thing. you just want to keep talking in a condesending fashion. and then you get upset when somone does it to you.

my shift is done. im no longer getting paid to do this. so im out homie. have a good one man.

You are soooooo wrong in this argument and it is not even funny. A broken arm is slang for fracture. You can't just make up your definition of broken. You cannot say that a broken arm is only considered broken if the bone separates. Well, you could say it, but you would be wrong. Just admit that his arm was broken because, well, it was broken. You can say the title was misleading blah blah blah... It isn't the OP's fault you have the wrong definitions of broken and fractured. I am sure you know the right ones, you are just used to the slang terms being used and that is nobody's fault besides yours. His arm was broken (period). You are wrong the other poster is right.

Dnovakovic099
05-23-2011, 09:28 PM
Hawks to the rescue:p

Again, you being uneducated in the subject, ignorant, of fractures and bones does not make it misleading. Broken IS fractured. It means the EXACT same thing!!!!!! What your slang definition is nobody cares about.

Eagles4Lyfe
05-23-2011, 09:41 PM
You are soooooo wrong in this argument and it is not even funny. A broken arm is slang for fracture. You can't just make up your definition of broken. You cannot say that a broken arm is only considered broken if the bone separates. Well, you could say it, but you would be wrong. Just admit that his arm was broken because, well, it was broken. You can say the title was misleading blah blah blah... It isn't the OP's fault you have the wrong definitions of broken and fractured. I am sure you know the right ones, you are just used to the slang terms being used and that is nobody's fault besides yours. His arm was broken (period). You are wrong the other poster is right.
Like hawk said just drop it dude

Again, you being uneducated in the subject, ignorant, of fractures and bones does not make it misleading. Broken IS fractured. It means the EXACT same thing!!!!!! What your slang definition is nobody cares about.

Here we go with that word again:facepalm:
Your right im nto a doctor but i know someone whos actually in that field, hold on ill go get him for you.

utahjazzno12fan
05-23-2011, 09:48 PM
Have you had a broken arm before ? i have and it requires a cast. i beleive that he was injured. i dont beleive his arm is fully broken because if it is and he still played well then manu has to be immune to pain. its like trying to play with a broken leg. give me a break, you cant tell me you beleive any player can play with a broken arm or leg ..

Actually you can play with a broken bone. I finished out a ball season and tournament with a broken ankle. Wrapped it up and played while playing short stop. I could really see this happening.

Broke it again a couple of years later because I never had it treated properly. Had surgery and was back playing with screws and a plate in it less than a month later.

Vdot
05-23-2011, 10:14 PM
Actually you can play with a broken bone. I finished out a ball season and tournament with a broken ankle. Wrapped it up and played while playing short stop. I could really see this happening.

Broke it again a couple of years later because I never had it treated properly. Had surgery and was back playing with screws and a plate in it less than a month later.

there u go, that settles it.

if utahjazzfan can play on a broken ankle (a bone that constantly has pressure exerted on it) then manu ginobili can manage a broken/fractured arm. Who cares if broken/fracture means the same thing, even if it does. the title of the thread is misleading. not every break/fracture is the same, some can be played on without too much difficulty. the title of the thread just paints the wrong picture.

personally i think a break and a fracture should be 2 different things, and since none of us are doctors, those of us who have some common sense can easily figure out why.

smith&wesson
05-23-2011, 10:17 PM
i understand that a fracture means broken. but what im talking about is when you actually break your arm and you need a cast for it. the difference in severity...

i stand corrected, i just dont get how some of you know exactly what i mean and are still trying to educate me in a condesending fashion

dudes throw there weight around like its a fight in here or somthing. you guys need to chill out .

smith&wesson
05-23-2011, 10:25 PM
Actually you can play with a broken bone. I finished out a ball season and tournament with a broken ankle. Wrapped it up and played while playing short stop. I could really see this happening.

Broke it again a couple of years later because I never had it treated properly. Had surgery and was back playing with screws and a plate in it less than a month later.

baseball ?

could you jump on the ankle bro ?

Johann
05-23-2011, 10:25 PM
You know what they say: If it ain't Baroque, don't fix it :D

mamba24
05-23-2011, 10:27 PM
Terry played with a broken neck, testicular cancer and a broken back along with a broken penis vs the Lakers.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

210Don
05-23-2011, 10:30 PM
its funny how some players get praised like rondo for playing with injuries but manu gets hated on.....

Vdot
05-23-2011, 10:35 PM
any player that plays with a "broken bone" or a "bone fracture" is obviously playing with an injury that's not very severe. It's not anything spectacular, although i do commend guys like kobe and gino and rondo for doing it....still doesn't mean you should make a thread about it. By making a thread about it, it gives the impression that he played through a serious bone fracture that no one else in the world could have done....

its quite possible that other guys were playing with sprains and strains that were giving them more trouble that ginobili's fracture was giving him.

Trace
05-23-2011, 10:36 PM
A stress fracture can be nascent or complete. A complete fracture is what's known colloquially as a "broken bone".

A "small fracture" as the article reports is not an indication of either.

I highly doubt it's a proximal humerus fracture since he seemed to have some mobility in his shoulder and was able to receive contact.

Yoshimitsu
05-23-2011, 10:40 PM
tell 'em TraceMD :cool:

mzgrizz
05-23-2011, 10:51 PM
A stress fracture can be nascent or complete. A complete fracture is what's known colloquially as a "broken bone".

A "small fracture" as the article reports is not an indication of either.

I highly doubt it's a proximal humerus fracture since he seemed to have some mobility in his shoulder and was able to receive contact.

He most likely had a hairline fracture of the distal humerus as THAT is where he wore his brace:cool:

Trace
05-23-2011, 10:55 PM
He most likely had a hairline fracture of the distal humerus as THAT is where he wore his brace:cool:

Wasn't following the series. Do you have a picture? My assumptions were made from his point averages and the style that he plays.

CountSackula
05-23-2011, 10:57 PM
I like how everyone on PSD are doctors all of a sudden.

PHDs in bro science!

So Manu had a broken arm. I've boned with torn ab muscles while internally bleeding. :eyebrow:

Giraffes Rule
05-23-2011, 10:58 PM
Wasn't following the series. Do you have a picture? My assumptions were made from his point averages and the style that he plays.

It's worth noting that the brace was on his non-shooting arm, and he didn't use that arm for free throws the entire series. Shot em Shaq style (except he actually made most of them).

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/files/2011/04/Manu-brace-4221-306x218.jpg

Trace
05-23-2011, 11:03 PM
It's worth noting that the brace was on his non-shooting arm, and he didn't use that arm for free throws the entire series. Shot em Shaq style (except he actually made most of them).

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/files/2011/04/Manu-brace-4221-306x218.jpg

Because if he did indeed fracture the distal humerus as MsGrizz stated then it would be rather impossible for him to play basketball especially if it was an indirect fracture.

Regardless, I applaud his efforts and I think he has amazing heart.

MrfadeawayJB
05-23-2011, 11:27 PM
PHDs in bro science!

So Manu had a broken arm. I've boned with torn ab muscles while internally bleeding. :eyebrow:

:cheers: :hi5: :worthy:

Eagles4Lyfe
05-23-2011, 11:35 PM
There i got a doctor for you guys you happy. Now smithy doesn't sound so IGNORANT now does he??:cool:

mzgrizz
05-23-2011, 11:35 PM
Basically a hard flop would pop your distal humerus too
But he was a Manu sandwich between Timmy and the other guy
Basically he's a helluva player but NO EXCUSES
We had a nice beat down for such an upstart of a team :cheers:

Joshtd1
05-24-2011, 12:41 AM
Dont think any excuses are being made, well not from me anyway since you guys didn't have Rudy Gay. Just shows that Manu has a **** load of heart and his injury was a bit worse then originally thought. He still averaged about 21 a game, so it didnt seem to effect him too much.

MTar786
05-24-2011, 05:42 AM
guy is a warrior. sad they have a crap team around timmy and manu

with all due respect to the greatest power forward to ever play the game. At this point in timmys career id prefer to say its sad that they have a crap team around TONY and MANU. timmy is ok.. a shell of what he used to be. tim duncan is finished. he will retire a spur and stay with the team out of respect.. but he is no longer on the same level as guys like dirk, kg.. even amare bosh and gasol. id say he's SA's 3rd best player behind manu and tony