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View Full Version : Why do critics forget Kidd used to be a top 5-10 superstar?



NYSpirit1
05-23-2011, 03:08 AM
All analysts and journalists are talking about on ESPN, Yahoo, other sites is this is Dirk's quest to win a title. But why is nobody talking about the fact that Kidd was a superstar for his first 15 years in the league. And Kidd wasn't just a superstar, he was arguably a top 5 player for much of his time with the New Jersey Nets and Phoenix Suns.

Kidd came close to a title when he made it to the Finals in 2001 and 2002. I remember at the time everybody talking about how much Kidd wanted to win a title. But now when he's about to return to the Finals in 2011, he's just an afterthought after Nowitzki.

OnslaughtXX6
05-23-2011, 03:22 AM
You can argue that he was a better player than Dirk.

allSUAVE
05-23-2011, 03:25 AM
Yea, Kidd deserve the title as much as Dirk does

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-23-2011, 03:27 AM
He sucks now, thats why.

beasted86
05-23-2011, 03:34 AM
He's 38 freakin' years old, man. What exactly do you want?
When the Heat won the championship in '06, the storyline wasn't Gary Payton getting his ring.

Come on.

MacFitz92
05-23-2011, 03:35 AM
Dirk is still in his prime, this would be HIS championship. Kidd's older, isn't anything close to what he use to be, and doesn't have the kind of effect Dirk has on this team.

asandhu23
05-23-2011, 03:38 AM
J Kidd is one of the best players of all time. very underrated.

Tanakid777
05-23-2011, 04:47 AM
He's 38 freakin' years old, man. What exactly do you want?
When the Heat won the championship in '06, the storyline wasn't Gary Payton getting his ring.

Come on.

2011 Kidd>> 2006 Payton

beasted86
05-23-2011, 04:53 AM
2011 Kidd>> 2006 Payton

Of course, but you get the point.

waveycrockett
05-23-2011, 04:57 AM
Dirk is still in his prime, this would be HIS championship. Kidd's older, isn't anything close to what he use to be, and doesn't have the kind of effect Dirk has on this team.

I think this is false. I watched Kidd every day with the Nets and I watch him off and on now. It definitely seems like he's still a pretty decent defender(he did a nice job on Kobe), he still can take off like a bat out of hell and now he can actually shoot. I think his numbers decline is definitely alot to do with the system he's in now. He's not asked to do much.

BlondeBomber41
05-23-2011, 05:20 AM
Of course, but you get the point.

Kidd is the starting PG and a very big piece to the teams success, while Payton was a backup playing limited minutes while minimally contributing. Big difference.

HeaTxRipZz
05-23-2011, 05:54 AM
Kidd is very underrated at this point but I think that's because of his age and all of the young guards in the league. While his numbers dropped he still contributes in a huge way that alot of guys don't know how to

Bruno
05-23-2011, 06:17 AM
Kidd finished 2nd in MVP voting for the 2001-2002 season. Also led the Nets to the finals.

Bruno
05-23-2011, 06:25 AM
Jason Kidd:
2nd most assists in NBA history.
Assists (link).(link). (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ast_career.html?ls=gt2hp0021001053)

3rd most steals in NBA history.
Steals (link). (link).(link). (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/stl_career.html?ls=gt2hp0021001053)

3rd most three-point FG's made in NBA history.
3's (link). (link).(link). (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fg3_career.html?ls=gt2hp0021001053)

Greet
05-23-2011, 08:59 AM
He sucks now, thats why.

lol...Kidd doesn't suck now. You need to watch the Mavs to know what he brings to the court.


He's 38 freakin' years old, man. What exactly do you want?
When the Heat won the championship in '06, the storyline wasn't Gary Payton getting his ring.

Come on.

Difference here is kid is a cog in the machine, you take out Kidd and this team doesn't make it very far.


Kidd is very underrated at this point but I think that's because of his age and all of the young guards in the league. While his numbers dropped he still contributes in a huge way that alot of guys don't know how to

Kidd might be the only pure PG left in the NBA. You have these great guys that are only one dimensional (Rose/Westbrook). But there's a very slim chance that Rose or Westbrook even sniff Jason Kidd's career.

Hawkeye15
05-23-2011, 09:03 AM
Dirk is still in his prime, this would be HIS championship. Kidd's older, isn't anything close to what he use to be, and doesn't have the kind of effect Dirk has on this team.

bingo. Winning a championship in your prime, as the lead guy does far more for your legacy than winning it as a 38 year old who is clearly a shell of his former self. It would be great for Kidd to win it, but at this point, it doesn't have much effect on his overall ranking when his career is over. Its simply for him now.

Greet
05-23-2011, 09:07 AM
bingo. Winning a championship in your prime, as the lead guy does far more for your legacy than winning it as a 38 year old who is clearly a shell of his former self. It would be great for Kidd to win it, but at this point, it doesn't have much effect on his overall ranking when his career is over. Its simply for him now.

Kidd isn't just some back-up on a good team. Kidd is very much essential for this team as Dirk is. Just because Kidd doesn't bring the flash that Rose does, and the thrill that Westbrook does, it doesn't mean he's just an after thought. There's no PG in the playoffs right now that would be a better fit for the Mavs than Jason Kidd.

SteBO
05-23-2011, 09:10 AM
Critics forget about that due to the fact that they're too entrenched with numbers, statistics, etc........This is a time where people need to start using their eyes more instead of looking at numbers on a computer screen. If you watch the Mavs play, as I have all playoffs long, you'd see that he keeps Dallas organized, composed, and has them going smoothly. It's hardly ever hectic when he's on the floor, and knows where guys like to get their shots. Game 3 was a prime example. Shawn Marion used to be such a good scorer in Phoenix, a 20 and 10 guy most nights. Note that he played with Jason Kidd there, and Steve Nash eventually in '04-'05 through the 2006-2007 year. He comes to Miami, then goes to Toronto, and does what? Nothing.

Without Kidd, how does Shawn Marion play the way he played in Game 3? Kidd knows his personnell, and knows how to utilize them efficiently when he's on the floor, and if you're Rick Carlisle, you're thankful to have him on your team.

mttwlsn16
05-23-2011, 09:22 AM
hope kidd and dirk get well deserved rings

Super.
05-23-2011, 09:31 AM
Kidd might be the only pure PG left in the NBA. You have these great guys that are only one dimensional (Rose/Westbrook). But there's a very slim chance that Rose or Westbrook even sniff Jason Kidd's career.

Rondo?

Greet
05-23-2011, 09:32 AM
Rondo?

Yeah that was a dumb statement from me. Rondo/D-Will/CP are all pure imo.

Hawkeye15
05-23-2011, 09:48 AM
Kidd isn't just some back-up on a good team. Kidd is very much essential for this team as Dirk is. Just because Kidd doesn't bring the flash that Rose does, and the thrill that Westbrook does, it doesn't mean he's just an after thought. There's no PG in the playoffs right now that would be a better fit for the Mavs than Jason Kidd.

Kidd is nowhere, and I mean, none, as essential as Dirk. The point is, this won't effect his career like winning a ring when he was a top player would have done. He is nowhere near a top PG anymore dude. And yes, there are a number of PG's that would be a better fit. Kidd is an 8/8 player with a below average PER, average Offrtg, and is an above average defender. He is not the top 5 player he once was, therefore this ring won't do the same thing to his legacy winning 6-7 years ago would have. The Mavs aren't going to complain, but their ring hinges on Dirk playing lights out, as he has. Dirk goes cold for an extended period of time, they are dead.

edit: yes, of the PG's left in the playoffs, Kidd is possibly the best fit, due to his ability to raise his aging wing players game. I didn't notice the "still in the playoffs part" until after the post

Hawkeye15
05-23-2011, 09:51 AM
Critics forget about that due to the fact that they're too entrenched with numbers, statistics, etc........This is a time where people need to start using their eyes more instead of looking at numbers on a computer screen. If you watch the Mavs play, as I have all playoffs long, you'd see that he keeps Dallas organized, composed, and has them going smoothly. It's hardly ever hectic when he's on the floor, and knows where guys like to get their shots. Game 3 was a prime example. Shawn Marion used to be such a good scorer in Phoenix, a 20 and 10 guy most nights. Note that he played with Jason Kidd there, and Steve Nash eventually in '04-'05 through the 2006-2007 year. He comes to Miami, then goes to Toronto, and does what? Nothing.

Without Kidd, how does Shawn Marion play the way he played in Game 3? Kidd knows his personnell, and knows how to utilize them efficiently when he's on the floor, and if you're Rick Carlisle, you're thankful to have him on your team.

I agree with you dude. But to say he is not replaceable would be a stretch. Kidd was the ultimate true PG a decade ago. Now guys like Rondo, Paul, Deron, and Nash are much better. I loved watching prime Kidd, he made the game so much easier for everyone. He is just Kidd-lite now. That's all.

As I said, winning a ring would mean more to him personally than it would have an effect on his all time ranking. He isn't even the top PG in the series.

tr3ymill3r
05-23-2011, 09:59 AM
It's tough to say he was an all time great when his nickname was Ason Kidd, since he had no J. He's a good player who didn't have to deal with injury, he's quite lucky as well. It's called longevity.

Tarheels23
05-23-2011, 10:01 AM
Because Dirk is a top 5-10 superstar right NOW. Kidd would be hard pressed as a top 10 PG NOW

twoearl
05-23-2011, 10:10 AM
He's 38 freakin' years old, man. What exactly do you want?
When the Heat won the championship in '06, the storyline wasn't Gary Payton getting his ring.

Come on.

This. There are 20 - 30 other average players you could plug into Kidd's spot and Dallas would be the same...

SteBO
05-23-2011, 10:21 AM
I agree with you dude. But to say he is not replaceable would be a stretch. Kidd was the ultimate true PG a decade ago. Now guys like Rondo, Paul, Deron, and Nash are much better. I loved watching prime Kidd, he made the game so much easier for everyone. He is just Kidd-lite now. That's all.

As I said, winning a ring would mean more to him personally than it would have an effect on his all time ranking. He isn't even the top PG in the series.

Oh I agree with you wholeheartedly man. Kidd isn't irreplacable by any means. I'm just judging by what I'm seeing right now from the Mavs. He does a lot for this team, and that's been visible. But, like you, I'm sure you put Chris Paul on this team, and they're 10x better. But for now, Kidd has made a difference for Dallas. But let's not forget that Dirk is the real reason the Mavs are where they are right now. Not really Jason Kidd.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-23-2011, 10:37 AM
lol...Kidd doesn't suck now. You need to watch the Mavs to know what he brings to the court.



Difference here is kid is a cog in the machine, you take out Kidd and this team doesn't make it very far.



Kidd might be the only pure PG left in the NBA. You have these great guys that are only one dimensional (Rose/Westbrook). But there's a very slim chance that Rose or Westbrook even sniff Jason Kidd's career.

he had a really bad bad regular season.

BlondeBomber41
05-23-2011, 11:46 AM
he had a really bad bad regular season.

Um, no he didn't? He pretty much performed like he has since he has been in Dallas. Hit some 3's, pass the ball, play defense. He was fine.