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View Full Version : General Consensus: Which PG Did More For Phoenix, KJ, or Nash



JasonJohnHorn
05-18-2011, 06:43 PM
Both PGs are great, and while KJ hasnt been put into the HOF yet, he deserves a spot in my book, I was always a big fan. He was a great playoff performer, great passer, a stand up guy off the court, and save the first half of his first season, he was a career Phoenix player.

Nash though is a two time MVP, and lead the Suns when they were perhaps the most exciting to watch, and while he didnt get the Suns into the finals as KJ and Barkely did, he has helped them to some great playoff runs.


Both guys are amazing in my book, and I'm not a "Phoenix" fan exactly, but I just wonder how fans might view what each meant to the Suns organization.


And let hear from some old school fans, fans of Phoenix or not, that know Kevin Johnson as just more than a name and some impressive stats.

Gibby23
05-18-2011, 06:44 PM
Nash.

Lake_Show2416
05-18-2011, 06:52 PM
Nash 2 time MVP

Kidd was great everywhere he went tho, i think he's better all time

JordansBulls
05-18-2011, 06:53 PM
KJ in 1990 got to the WCF as the man on that Suns team upsetting LA in the process, but after that in 1993 Barkley was the man.

sportsplayer7
05-18-2011, 06:54 PM
Nash.

Lakersfan2483
05-18-2011, 06:55 PM
Steve Nash did more for Phoenix although KJ accomplished a lot in Phoenix. Nash led his team to 50 plus win seasons multiple times, went to the Western Conference finals twice I believe (correct me if I am wrong), won 2 MVPs and more than overachieved the year they lost Amare due to injury. He was brilliant during that season.

KJ did a lot for Phoenix, but Barkley was the clear cut no. 1 guy on his team and was the primary reason the Suns made it to the finals.

CityofChaos
05-18-2011, 06:56 PM
The question is too vague...I mean, the Suns were a consistent playoff team when both were running the point (not to mention w/ Kidd). I dont think you wanted to ask who is the better pg beause clearly Nash is the winner, but if your purpose was to see PSD praise KJ then here you go:

Kevin Johnson was a good point guard for the PHX Suns.

Lakersfan2483
05-18-2011, 06:56 PM
KJ in 1990 got to the WCF as the man on that Suns team upsetting LA in the process, but after that in 1993 Barkley was the man.

Good point. KJ is underrated in my book and deserves a spot in the Hall of Fame. He's not a first ballot hall of famer, but deserves a place nonetheless.

naps
05-18-2011, 06:59 PM
Nash.

ackar
05-18-2011, 07:03 PM
correct me if i am wrong didn't at one point Phoenix have KJ, Nash and kidd at least for one year or so?

HuRRiCaNeS324
05-18-2011, 07:09 PM
Holy **** you make a lot of threads....

15 in 3 day lmao! Stop posting everything that pops into your mind.

CityofChaos
05-18-2011, 07:09 PM
correct me if i am wrong didn't at one point Phoenix have KJ, Nash and kidd at least for one year or so?

Yeah but Nash didnt really get any PT until he was traded to Dallas where he started to flourish.

Chronz
05-18-2011, 07:10 PM
KJ in 1990 got to the WCF as the man on that Suns team upsetting LA in the process, but after that in 1993 Barkley was the man.
I hate playing the part of context cop but they never "upset" LA, oh and Im lying about hating it.
:)

Shortys4711
05-18-2011, 07:14 PM
correct me if i am wrong didn't at one point Phoenix have KJ, Nash and kidd at least for one year or so?

Yeah your are correct, The Year they drafted Nash we had KJ and Kidd already. Nice collection of point guards right there

CityofChaos
05-18-2011, 07:19 PM
I hate playing the part of context cop but they never "upset" LA, oh and Im lying about hating it.
:)

Do you like playing the part of Mr. Denial? The Lakers won 63+ games that season and lost 4-1 to PHX.
:)

Raidaz4Life
05-18-2011, 07:21 PM
Nash just because he is one of the all time greats at the point and played most of his prime as a Sun.


I am a huge fan of KJ though and feel he is extremely underrated

KnicksR4Real
05-18-2011, 07:26 PM
Nash 2 time MVP

Kidd was great everywhere he went tho, i think he's better all time

Can you read? It's Kevin Johnson...

Purple&Gold24
05-18-2011, 07:52 PM
Nash.

braveniler58
05-18-2011, 08:00 PM
Definitely got to be Nash.

Bishnoff
05-18-2011, 08:05 PM
KJ did more for the Suns. Played more games, scored more points, made more assists, higher win share, and got us to our second Finals appearance (with help obviously). He was the one constant over a period of great success for the Suns franchise (7 consecutive seasons of 53 or more regular season wins), when a lot of players came and left.

Chronz
05-18-2011, 08:25 PM
Do you like playing the part of Mr. Denial? The Lakers won 63+ games that season and lost 4-1 to PHX.
:)

Refer to this thread (http://prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=544496), it explains why regular season records are not the best indicator of playoff success.

Phoenix had the most impressive #'s in the regular season and it carried over in their matchup against the Lakers. For whatever reason, I wouldnt know I dont recall the series but I suspect it was because they had the best players outside of Magic and Worthy didnt live up to his rep.

JasonJohnHorn
05-18-2011, 08:55 PM
Holy **** you make a lot of threads....

15 in 3 day lmao! Stop posting everything that pops into your mind.

I'll try to slow it down for you bro... I've just been bored and love talking with other fans. I'm up here in Canada, and everybody around me wants to talk about nothing other than Hockey, or Bargnani havinga "high ceiling".... ugh!

Cheers!

JasonJohnHorn
05-18-2011, 09:06 PM
KJ did more for the Suns. Played more games, scored more points, made more assists, higher win share, and got us to our second Finals appearance (with help obviously). He was the one constant over a period of great success for the Suns franchise (7 consecutive seasons of 53 or more regular season wins), when a lot of players came and left.

I was hoping to see more comments like this. I am honestly on the fence about this. When you look at KJ's numbers, they are amazing. He was 9 assists shy of 1000 one year, which is amazing. He was a better defender, he was as good a playmaker in my book, solid rebounder for his position, (Nash is pretty good rebounding from the point, but he's also got a couple inches on KJ). I think if most people just looked at their numbers, and went on that, theyd go with Nash, but Nash has the two MVP award, which for me were a matter of timing. There were better players the years he won, there just werent any players that were more important to their teams.

KJ had Barkely, and some real talent when he got to the NBA finals, but Nash had Amare, Joe Johnson, Marion and QR (who played AMAZING that season).

I have a hard time picking between the two. KJ put up numbers that would have most comparing him to CP3 if he were playing today, and I think most fans (and I may be mistaken) would take a prime CP3 over a prime Nash (again, I'm assuming that). KJ has the finals appearance. And yes, Barkley was the man on that team, but I remember when Nash won the MVP award, folks in the studios, in the papers, and on forums were saying: Nash isnt even the best player on his team!

It is a hard pick for me, being Canadian, I love Nash, but I think if I was picking a PG for my team, KJ would be more of an asset for a title contender, mostly because of his defence.

Just thought it would be interesting to hear fans throw this one around.

Bishnoff
05-18-2011, 09:26 PM
I was hoping to see more comments like this. I am honestly on the fence about this. When you look at KJ's numbers, they are amazing. He was 9 assists shy of 1000 one year, which is amazing. He was a better defender, he was as good a playmaker in my book, solid rebounder for his position, (Nash is pretty good rebounding from the point, but he's also got a couple inches on KJ). I think if most people just looked at their numbers, and went on that, theyd go with Nash, but Nash has the two MVP award, which for me were a matter of timing. There were better players the years he won, there just werent any players that were more important to their teams.

KJ had Barkely, and some real talent when he got to the NBA finals, but Nash had Amare, Joe Johnson, Marion and QR (who played AMAZING that season).

I have a hard time picking between the two. KJ put up numbers that would have most comparing him to CP3 if he were playing today, and I think most fans (and I may be mistaken) would take a prime CP3 over a prime Nash (again, I'm assuming that). KJ has the finals appearance. And yes, Barkley was the man on that team, but I remember when Nash won the MVP award, folks in the studios, in the papers, and on forums were saying: Nash isnt even the best player on his team!

It is a hard pick for me, being Canadian, I love Nash, but I think if I was picking a PG for my team, KJ would be more of an asset for a title contender, mostly because of his defence.

Just thought it would be interesting to hear fans throw this one around.

I thought the question was who did more for the Suns, not who's the better player. I'd probably say that Nash is the better player (even though KJ was a more complete PG). They played their position quite differently, so it's hard to compare them on ability.

I didn't factor in Nash's MVP's because they are individual awards, even if you need a supporting cast good enough to get your team one of the top records to win the award.

TrueFan420
05-18-2011, 11:19 PM
Both PGs are great, and while KJ hasnt been put into the HOF yet, he deserves a spot in my book, I was always a big fan. He was a great playoff performer, great passer, a stand up guy off the court, and save the first half of his first season, he was a career Phoenix player.

Nash though is a two time MVP, and lead the Suns when they were perhaps the most exciting to watch, and while he didnt get the Suns into the finals as KJ and Barkely did, he has helped them to some great playoff runs.


Both guys are amazing in my book, and I'm not a "Phoenix" fan exactly, but I just wonder how fans might view what each meant to the Suns organization.


And let hear from some old school fans, fans of Phoenix or not, that know Kevin Johnson as just more than a name and some impressive stats.

didnt he beat his wife?

SteveNash
05-18-2011, 11:41 PM
didnt he beat his wife?

I don't think so. That was Jason Kidd. Kevin Johnson was accused of child molestation.

Nash has clearly done more, but Johnson was the better player.

el_primo_nano
05-19-2011, 12:01 AM
Nash should have been the 3x MVP, he took them to the Conference Finals twice, and should have gotten to the finals, had Stern not had a Dcik up his arse. KJ was a beast, one of the most underrated, but Nash should have his numbered retired and then some.

nickdymez
05-19-2011, 12:23 AM
Nash

Hellcrooner
05-19-2011, 12:49 AM
Nash.

He did better ( on average) with less talent in the roster ( on average)

Last 80s and first 90s suns rosters where absolutely Crazy.

rhino17
05-19-2011, 12:55 AM
KJ is probably the most underrated player of his generation, he also led the Suns to a lot more success, Nash is pretty overrated imo, I'll go with KJ

sunsfan88
05-19-2011, 03:14 AM
^^^Lol at Nash being overrated. A guy that can make even the worst of the scrubs look good is "overrated"?

OaklandsFinest
05-19-2011, 03:34 AM
I'm just saying you give J Kidd, Joe Johnson, Q Rich, Stoudemire, and Marion they win a championship and that offense is twice as effiecient and dope. Jason Kidd is the best pg in Suns history... but for sake of debate, Nash is the better PG while KJ is the better basketball player. KJ played in Barkley's shadow with Dan Marjle while Nash was on the forefront of his team. KJ did more for the suns as a franchise then Nash

knickfan33
05-19-2011, 05:11 AM
nash is still the best true pont guard in this league.. no one makes his teamates better then nash

rhino17
05-19-2011, 05:23 AM
^^^Lol at Nash being overrated. A guy that can make even the worst of the scrubs look good is "overrated"?

How many scrubs has nash played with? the guy has had some of the most talented teams in the league around him for about a decade and never accomplished what KJ was able to, not to mention Nash is the worst defensive player of his generation

king4day
05-19-2011, 09:46 AM
Hard to say. Both produced equally IMO. Nash's Suns were elite longer than KJ's Suns.
MVP's aside, they both kept the team competitive for close to a full decade.

I'd probably give Nash the slight edge. He's a more popular figure in Phoenix.

king4day
05-19-2011, 09:51 AM
How many scrubs has nash played with? the guy has had some of the most talented teams in the league around him for about a decade and never accomplished what KJ was able to, not to mention Nash is the worst defensive player of his generation

- 05/06, Diaw, who no one ever heard of, becomes most improved. That alone should be enough.
- Channing Frye was an afterthought in the league until he joined the Suns.
- Robin Lopez and Lou Amundson even benefited from him in most recent years.
- Kurt Thomas became a solid Pick and Roll partner for him when Amar'e was out.
- What has Raja Bell done since leaving Phoenix.
- Tim Thomas got a big contract after coming to Phoenix and did nothing since.

Plus, if you're averaging double digit assists, you're making someone look good.

Even this year. A crappy Suns team that had no business winning 40 games did it thanks to him. He missed a bunch of games too that likely cost us a winning season.

People can say it's the system that helped these players but the system goes because of Nash.

koreancabbage
05-19-2011, 10:45 AM
Nash for sure. two MVPs in the name of the Suns.

ManRam
05-19-2011, 10:55 AM
Jason, can you articulate why KJ should be a HOFer?

I don't see it.

Mile High Champ
05-19-2011, 11:28 AM
Oh this is tough. I would have to say Nash but man it is so hard to go against KJ here as well. KJ was an unreal talent and was one of the best PG's ever. I put him top 5 all time easily.

Mile High Champ
05-19-2011, 11:33 AM
Jason, can you articulate why KJ should be a HOFer?

I don't see it.

Look at some of his accomplishments he had in his career. Had injuries not derailed his career, he would of been one of the best ever. KJ deserves to be in the HOF and it is a shame that he has not got the call. He made the AlL NBA 2nd Team 3 times and would of made the first team 3 times had he not played behind Jordan and Magic. People always under value KJ I find.

- K. Johnson is one of only three players in NBA history (Isiah Thomas and Magic Johnson are the others) to have averaged at least 20.0 points and 12.0 assists in a season.

- K. Johnson is one of only three players in NBA history (Oscar Robertson and Isiah Thomas are the others) to have averaged at least 20.0 points and 10.0 assists in three consecutive seasons.

- K. Johnson is one of only four players in NBA history (Oscar Robertson, Isiah Thomas, and Magic Johnson are the others) to have averaged at least 20.0 points and 10.0 assists per game in three different seasons.

- K. Johnson is one of six players in NBA history (Magic Johnson, John Stockton, Steve Nash, Deron Williams, and Chris Paul are the others) to have averaged at least 15.0 points and 10.0 assists per game over the course of a season while shooting at least .500 from the field.

- K. Johnson is one of only two players in NBA history (Magic Johnson is the other) to have twice averaged at least 20.0 points and 10.0 assists per game over the course of a season while shooting at least .500 from the field. The only other player to produce 20.0/10.0/.500 over the course of a single season is Chris Paul.

- K. Johnson was the first player in NBA history to average at least 20.0 points, 10.0 assists, a .500 field goal percentage, and 2.0 steals in a season (in '90-'91); he has since been joined in that regard by Chris Paul (in '08-'09).

rhino17
05-19-2011, 06:54 PM
Jason, can you articulate why KJ should be a HOFer?

I don't see it.
KJ is probably a top 10 PG all time, of course he is a hofer