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JordansBulls
05-18-2011, 03:09 PM
Using each finals in the 2000's, form the best duo?

NOTE: But you have to use one player from each team.


Example:

2000 Lakers vs 2000 Pacers
Shaq and Reggie Miller


2006 Heat vs 2006 Mavs
Wade and Dirk


2008 Lakers vs 2008 Celtics
Kobe and Garnett



Here are the other years.

2001 Lakers vs 2001 Sixers
2002 Lakers vs 2002 Nets
2004 Lakers vs 2004 Pistons
2005 Spurs vs 2005 Pistons
2007 Spurs vs 2007 Cavs
2009 Lakers vs 2009 Magic
2010 Lakers vs 2010 Celtics

Which duo would be the best or would you prefer. And remember it has to be how they were that year.

PhillysPhinest
05-18-2011, 03:20 PM
2001: Shaq and AI... that would have been killer

Chronz
05-18-2011, 03:23 PM
Bron and Duncan for me

Gibby23
05-18-2011, 03:28 PM
Shaq and Kerry Kittles

210Don
05-18-2011, 03:28 PM
timmy d and rasheed wallace in 04 & 05 woulda been deadly

ttam68
05-18-2011, 03:37 PM
Shaq - Kidd
Duncan - Lebron
Kobe - Dwight

mttwlsn16
05-18-2011, 03:52 PM
2011: lebron and dirk

davids22
05-18-2011, 03:56 PM
Shaq and AI would have been so scary if AI would be more willing to pass... even so, Shaq scoops up all those boards and gets putbacks.

nickdymez
05-18-2011, 04:00 PM
lol, shaq and kobe

heyman321
05-18-2011, 04:01 PM
Prime J Kidd and Prime Shaq

Bruno
05-18-2011, 04:12 PM
'00- Shaq & Reggie.
'01- Shaq & Kobe (check the stats, Bryant outperformed AI that post-season)
'02- Shaq & Kobe
'03- Duncan & Kidd
'04- Too tough to say. You could put 4-5 players here.
'05- Duncan & Ginobli
'06- Wade & Dirk
'07- Duncan & James
'08- Kobe & KG
'09- Kobe & Howard.

Cool thread JB.

marvILLous
05-18-2011, 04:20 PM
uhh shaq and kobe were already on the same team in 2001 lol^

Bruno
05-18-2011, 04:24 PM
uhh shaq and kobe were already on the same team in 2001 lol^

Doesn't matter, they were the best two players. Threads asking to come up with the best duo. They took a team of roll players to the title with a 15-1 playoff record.

Tarheels23
05-18-2011, 04:24 PM
2000 Lakers vs Pacers -Shaq and Reggie, even though Jalen had a good finals
2001 Lakers vs Sixers -Shaq and AI
2002 Lakers vs Nets -Shaq and Kidd
2003 Spurs vs Nets -Duncan and Kidd
2004 Lakers vs Pistons -Kobe and Rasheed
2005 Spurs vs Pistons -Duncan and Rasheed
2006 Heat vs Mavs -Wade and Dirk
2007 Spurs vs Cavs -Duncan and Lebron
2008 Lakers vs Celtics - Kobe and Garnett
2009 Lakers vs Magic -Kobe and Dwight
2010 Lakers vs Celtics -Kobe and Pierce

marvILLous
05-18-2011, 04:26 PM
Doesn't matter, they were the best two players. Threads asking to come up with the best duo. They took a team of roll players to the title with a 15-1 playoff record.

uhh read the OP again

Bruno
05-18-2011, 04:29 PM
uhh read the OP again

You got me.

2001: Shaq & AI.

I maintain that Shaq & Bryant were the best two players from that finals series. For the sake of this question, Shaq & AI.

Bruno
05-18-2011, 04:31 PM
'00- Shaq & Reggie.
'01- Shaq & Kobe (check the stats, Bryant outperformed AI that post-season)
'02- Shaq & Kobe
'03- Duncan & Kidd
'04- Too tough to say. You could put 4-5 players here.
'05- Duncan & Ginobli
'06- Wade & Dirk
'07- Duncan & James
'08- Kobe & KG
'09- Kobe & Howard.

Cool thread JB.

'01- Shaq & A.I.
'05- Duncan & Billups


Doesn't matter, they were the best two players. Threads asking to come up with the best duo. They took a team of roll players to the title with a 15-1 playoff record.

^Wrong.

todu82
05-18-2011, 05:18 PM
2000-Shaq and Miller
2001- Shaq and AI
2002- Shaq and Kidd
2003- Duncan and Kidd
2004- Kobe and Rasheed
2005- Duncan and rasheed
2006- Wade and Dirk
2007- Lebron and Duncan
2008- Garnett and Bryant
2009- Dwight and Kobe
2010- Kobe and Pierce

shep33
05-18-2011, 06:19 PM
2002, imagine a Kobe and Kidd backcourt... sick. Shaq and anyone makes sense too lol

Lakersfan2483
05-18-2011, 06:27 PM
'00- Shaq & Reggie.
'01- Shaq & Kobe (check the stats, Bryant outperformed AI that post-season)
'02- Shaq & Kobe
'03- Duncan & Kidd
'04- Too tough to say. You could put 4-5 players here.
'05- Duncan & Ginobli
'06- Wade & Dirk
'07- Duncan & James
'08- Kobe & KG
'09- Kobe & Howard.

Cool thread JB.

:clap:

Jimi032890
05-18-2011, 06:36 PM
Shaq - Kidd
Duncan - Lebron
Kobe - Dwight

uhhh right on

AIMelo=KillaDUO
05-18-2011, 06:36 PM
Shaq + AI
Shaq + Kidd
Shaq + Chauncey
Duncan + Wallace
Duncan + Bron
Kobe + Dwight
Gasol + Rondo

Lake_Show2416
05-18-2011, 06:56 PM
Shaq + KG, opposing teams would average 65 point

AIMelo=KillaDUO
05-18-2011, 07:00 PM
'00- Shaq & Reggie.
'01- Shaq & Kobe (check the stats, Bryant outperformed AI that post-season)
'02- Shaq & Kobe
'03- Duncan & Kidd
'04- Too tough to say. You could put 4-5 players here.
'05- Duncan & Ginobli
'06- Wade & Dirk
'07- Duncan & James
'08- Kobe & KG
'09- Kobe & Howard.

Cool thread JB.


YOU obviously need to check the stats...

1st round agains Indiana AI averaged...

31.5 PPG
6.5 APG
4.0 RPG

2nd Round against the Raptors AI averaged

33.7 PPG
6.8 APG
4.2 RPG

Confrence Finals AI averaged

30.5 PPG
6.8 APG
4.8 RPG

Finals against the LAkers AI averaged

35.6 PPG
3.8 APG
5.6 RPG

And trhought the playoffs he averaged 33, 6, and 5.... I'm not sure what drugs you were on in 2001 but Kobe did not outperform anyone, Let alone Allen Iverson.

Yankeefan213
05-18-2011, 07:17 PM
2000 Lakers vs Pacers -Shaq and Reggie
2001 Lakers vs Sixers -Shaq and Iverson
2002 Lakers vs Nets -J Kidd and Shaq
2003 Spurs vs Nets -Duncan and Kidd
2004 Lakers vs Pistons -Kobe and Billups
2005 Spurs vs Pistons -Duncan and Billups
2006 Heat vs Mavs -Wade and Dirk
2007 Spurs vs Cavs -Duncan and Lebron
2008 Lakers vs Celtics - Kobe and KG
2009 Lakers vs Magic -Kobe and Dwight
2010 Lakers vs Celtics -Kobe and Rondo

TylerSL
05-18-2011, 08:41 PM
2000-Reggie Miller/Shaquille O'Neil
2001-Alan Iverson/Shaquille O'Neil
2002-Jason Kidd/Shaquille O'Neil
2003-Jason Kidd/Tim Duncan
2004-Chauncey Billups/Shaquille O'Neil
2005-Richard Hamilton/Tim Duncan
2006-Dwyane Wade/Dirk Nowitzki
2007-Lebron James/Tim Duncan
2008-Kobe Bryant/Kevin Ganett
2009-Kobe Bryant/Dwight Howard


those are my duos

Bruno
05-19-2011, 04:37 AM
YOU obviously need to check the stats...

1st round agains Indiana AI averaged...

31.5 PPG
6.5 APG
4.0 RPG

2nd Round against the Raptors AI averaged

33.7 PPG
6.8 APG
4.2 RPG

Confrence Finals AI averaged

30.5 PPG
6.8 APG
4.8 RPG

Finals against the LAkers AI averaged

35.6 PPG
3.8 APG
5.6 RPG

And trhought the playoffs he averaged 33, 6, and 5.... I'm not sure what drugs you were on in 2001 but Kobe did not outperform anyone, Let alone Allen Iverson.

2001 Playoff Statistics:



Bryant Iverson
PER: 25.0 PER: 22.5
WS: 3.8 WS: 2.7
WS/48: 0.260 WS/48: 0.130
TS%: .555% TS%: .480%


Bryant led Iverson in all the major advanced statistics; he doubled him in WS/48. Bryant led the entire 2001 post-season in win-shares. Iverson shot under 40% during the 2001 playoffs (38.9%), his TS% is under.500%; that's inefficient. Not only did Bryant lead Iverson in ever primary advanced statistic and score the ball more efficiently but Bryant had already been selected to the all NBA Defensive team at that point in his career; he was the superior defender by a large margin.

Those are the facts.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/iversal01.html

AIMelo=KillaDUO
05-19-2011, 11:19 AM
2001 Playoff Statistics:



Bryant Iverson
PER: 25.0 PER: 22.5
WS: 3.8 WS: 2.7
WS/48: 0.260 WS/48: 0.130
TS%: .555% TS%: .480%


Bryant led Iverson in all the major advanced statistics; he doubled him in WS/48. Bryant led the entire 2001 post-season in win-shares. Iverson shot under 40% during the 2001 playoffs (38.9%), his TS% is under.500%; that's inefficient. Not only did Bryant lead Iverson in ever primary advanced statistic and score the ball more efficiently but Bryant had already been selected to the all NBA Defensive team at that point in his career; he was the superior defender by a large margin.

Those are the facts.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/iversal01.html

No one cares advanced stats. I don't need those... AI outdid Kobe in every major stastistical category.

Gibby23
05-19-2011, 11:43 AM
[/B]

No one cares advanced stats. I don't need those... AI outdid Kobe in every major stastistical category.

Because he had a garbage team and shot the ball all the time and only hit at a 38% clip. That might have been the reason he didn't win the championship, he played for stats, Kobe played for rings.

Greet
05-19-2011, 11:47 AM
Kidd + Shaq would've been dirty

AIsixersFK
05-19-2011, 12:20 PM
'00- Shaq & Reggie.
'01- Shaq & AI
'02- Shaq & Kidd
'03- Duncan & Kidd
'04- Kobe and Billups
'05- Duncan & Billups
'06- Wade & Dirk
'07- Duncan and LeBron
'08- Kobe and KG
'09- Kobe and Howard.
'10- Kobe and Rondo

hugepatsfan
05-19-2011, 12:26 PM
Kobe and KG for me. KG was still the MIN KG at that point (scoring was only down because of his role) and Kobe was the MVP. Kobe and KG are so perfectly compatible on the court. KG doesn't like to be "that guy" on offense, Kobe does. Both are extremely competitive and play lockdown D.

STA_PLAR
05-19-2011, 12:45 PM
this is dumb...just take the best from each team and make a duo lmao...

overalll the best was AI and SHAQ!

34Dayz
05-19-2011, 12:52 PM
'00- Shaq & Reggie.
'01- Shaq & A.I.
'02- Shaq & Kobe
'03- Duncan & Kidd
'04- Shaq & Billups
'05- Duncan & Billups
'06- Wade & Dirk
'07- Duncan & James
'08- Kobe & KG
'09- Kobe & Howard.
'10- Gasol & Pierce
:clap:

Tennessee Mav
05-19-2011, 01:01 PM
2000 Lakers vs Pacers -Shaq and Reggie, even though Jalen had a good finals
2001 Lakers vs Sixers -Shaq and AI
2002 Lakers vs Nets -Shaq and Kidd
2003 Spurs vs Nets -Duncan and Kidd
2004 Lakers vs Pistons -Kobe and Rasheed
2005 Spurs vs Pistons -Duncan and Rasheed
2006 Heat vs Mavs -Wade and Dirk
2007 Spurs vs Cavs -Duncan and Lebron
2008 Lakers vs Celtics - Kobe and Garnett
2009 Lakers vs Magic -Kobe and Dwight
2010 Lakers vs Celtics -Kobe and Pierce

Mine was pretty close to this! Only difference in mine was

2004-Billups and Kobe
2005-Duncan and Rip
2010-Kobe and Ray

Mc Uncle Cola
05-19-2011, 01:07 PM
LoL..what happend to 03 - 06 -08??

34Dayz
05-19-2011, 01:08 PM
I truly don't understand the logic of picking Kobe over Shaq in 04 especially considering their respective final's performances.

Mc Uncle Cola
05-19-2011, 01:12 PM
2000 Lakers vs Pacers -Shaq & Miller
2001 Lakers vs Sixers -Shaq & AI
2002 Lakers vs Nets -Shaq & Kidd
2003 Spurs vs Nets -Duncan & Kidd
2004 Lakers vs Pistons -Kobe & Chaunce
2005 Spurs vs Pistons -Parker & Rip
2006 Heat vs Mavs -Wade and Dirk
2007 Spurs vs Cavs -Duncan and Lebron
2008 Lakers vs Celtics - Kobe and Peirce
2009 Lakers vs Magic -Kobe and Dwight
2010 Lakers vs Celtics -Kobe and Rondo

Best PG KIDD
Best SG KOBE
Best SG LEBRON
Best PF Duncan
Best C SHAQ

AIMelo=KillaDUO
05-19-2011, 01:50 PM
Because he had a garbage team and shot the ball all the time and only hit at a 38% clip. That might have been the reason he didn't win the championship, he played for stats, Kobe played for rings.

That's irrelevant my friend, That's not what the argument was about. Bruno said Kobe "outperformed" Allen Iverson... wich in fact he didn't. If you wanna jump in between our conversation stay on topic, and don't talk out ur ***

And... for you to say AI played for stats, also shows you're ignorance.

Da Knicks
05-19-2011, 02:08 PM
Howard and Gasol for me

Miltstar
05-19-2011, 02:12 PM
wow I didn't realize how often the Lakers were in the finals! only 1 team from the Western Conference that wasn't the Lakers or Spurs made the finals?!?!

SACNYY
05-19-2011, 04:45 PM
Kobe and Shaq all day

Bruno
05-19-2011, 05:19 PM
No one cares advanced stats. I don't need those... AI outdid Kobe in every major stastistical category.

Correction, you don't care about advanced stats. Not surprising considering you're a huge fan of both Iverson and Melo (two players who's flaws and inefficiency are greatly exposed by advanced stats); you seem to ignore the fact that AI was inefficient in the 2001 post-season. Iverson shot under 39% for the 2001 playoffs; that's below mediocre, he was a chucker in that post-season.

You don't care for advanced stats, yet you're going to say "AI outdid Kobe in every major statistical category". Explain this then:

Bryant- 29.4 ppg on 46.9 FG%
Iverson- 32.9 ppg on 38.9 FG%

Whether you like it or not, 29.4 ppg on 47% FG shooting is more valuable than 32.9 ppg 39% FG shooting. Eight full percentage points is a big deal.

Bryant- 7.3 rpg.
Iverson- 4.7 rpg.

Bryant- 6.1 apg
Iverson- 6.1 apg

Bryant- 43.4 mpg.
Iverson- 46.2 mpg.

Where was Bryant outperformed by Iverson? There is a reason why Bryant leads Iverson in every major advanced statistic, all percentages, rebounds per game, and assists per 48 minutes. It's because he outperformed him through out that post-season. Do you really think that AI outperformed Kobe just because he averaged three more points per game?

This will be my last response in regards to this 2001 Kobe/AI comparison; that's all there is to it.


That's irrelevant my friend, That's not what the argument was about. Bruno said Kobe "outperformed" Allen Iverson... wich in fact he didn't. If you wanna jump in between our conversation stay on topic, and don't talk out ur ***

And... for you to say AI played for stats, also shows you're ignorance.


Other posters would take your opinion more seriously if you didn't respond to them with insults when they disagree with you.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
05-19-2011, 05:52 PM
Correction, you don't care about advanced stats. Not surprising considering you're a huge fan of both Iverson and Melo (two players who's flaws and inefficiency are greatly exposed by advanced stats); you seem to ignore the fact that AI was inefficient in the 2001 post-season. Iverson shot under 39% for the 2001 playoffs; that's below mediocre, he was a chucker in that post-season.

You don't care for advanced stats, yet you're going to say "AI outdid Kobe in every major statistical category". Explain this then:

Bryant- 29.4 ppg on 46.9 FG%
Iverson- 32.9 ppg on 38.9 FG%

Whether you like it or not, 29.4 ppg on 47% FG shooting is more valuable than 32.9 ppg 39% FG shooting. Eight full percentage points is a big deal.

Bryant- 7.3 rpg.
Iverson- 4.7 rpg.

Bryant- 6.1 apg
Iverson- 6.1 apg

Bryant- 43.4 mpg.
Iverson- 46.2 mpg.

Where was Bryant outperformed by Iverson? There is a reason why Bryant leads Iverson in every major advanced statistic, all percentages, rebounds per game, and assists per 48 minutes. It's because he outperformed him through out that post-season. Do you really think that AI outperformed Kobe just because he averaged three more points per game?

This will be my last response in regards to this 2001 Kobe/AI comparison; that's all there is to it.



Other posters would take your opinion more seriously if you didn't respond to them with insults when they disagree with you.

Bro you didn't watch Allen Iverson, play those other series. Shaq dominated everyone. Kobe didn't hafta do as much as Allen. AI didn't have Shaq to hide behind. Is that my fault? no. Is that AI's fault? No. AI's stats are higher... IDK what else to tell you.

And about the posters taking me serious... I really don't care. lol... Maybe I would take them serious if they knew what they were talkin about? :shrug:

Chronz
05-19-2011, 09:12 PM
[/B]

No one cares advanced stats. I don't need those... AI outdid Kobe in every major stastistical category.

LOL Yea no one cares except for people who actually STUDY NBA STATISTICS, you know GM's like Daryl Morey, coaches like Stan Van Gundy, yea per possession metrics havent been taking over the field at all, this must be why you have a job within the NBA and all those statisticians are just making stuff up.

AI outdid Kobe in every irrelevant measure, its why you refused to post the efficiency to which they played, that you neglected to mention such a key component in a players statline, even when it comes to basic stats, proves your bias. Not that you needed to prove anything, you homerdom was secured the minute you created this handle, nobody takes you seriously when it comes to objective arguments about AI, and I sure as hell dont take your statistical analysis seriously.

Chronz
05-19-2011, 09:22 PM
Bro you didn't watch Allen Iverson, play those other series.
LOL no you didnt watch Iverson play, see how much fun it is to tell other people what they have done. You also didnt watch AI nearly lose in every series despite having the superior team. He couldnt defend his own position and EVERY star outplayed him. In the first round Reggie crapped on the Sixers and showed AI how a star dominates the game without dominating the ball. Vince Carter outplayed AI in R2, putting up ridiculous #'s despite the fact that he was facing the far superior playoff defense. Then the Milwaukee series that many feel was rigged, AI still almost lost that series and saw Ray Allen tear his team up. Then the Finals, where him taking so long to make the Finals actually helped him because it meant the Lakers would be rusty for G1.


Shaq dominated everyone. Kobe didn't hafta do as much as Allen. AI didn't have Shaq to hide behind. Is that my fault? no. Is that AI's fault? No. AI's stats are higher... IDK what else to tell you.

Incorrect, it took both Kobe and Shaq to play at a superior level to AI for their team to win, you replace either of them with AI and the team fails.


And about the posters taking me serious... I really don't care. lol... Maybe I would take them serious if they knew what they were talkin about? :shrug:

COMEDY :clap:

DCB/LAL
05-20-2011, 10:07 AM
Bro you didn't watch Allen Iverson, play those other series. Shaq dominated everyone. Kobe didn't hafta do as much as Allen. AI didn't have Shaq to hide behind. Is that my fault? no. Is that AI's fault? No. AI's stats are higher... IDK what else to tell you.

And about the posters taking me serious... I really don't care. lol... Maybe I would take them serious if they knew what they were talkin about? :shrug:

Actually thats NOT True....Kobe did MOST his damage in those "other series" that you claim he didn't "hafta" do as much in.


Kobe in the 01 Playoffs..

Vs SA(4GMs): 51.1 FG% 33.2 PPG 7 assists 7 rebounds 1.5 steals

Vs Sac(4GMs): 47 FG% 35 PPG 4.2 assists 8.2 rebounds 1.2 steals

Vs POR(3GMs): 52.2 FG% 25 PPG 7.6 assists 4.4 rebounds 2.3 steals

So Kobe in series before the finals: 50.1 FG% 31 PPG 6.2 assists 6.5 rebounds and 1.6 steals

AI in the 01 Playoffs..

Vs MIL(7GMs): 33.3 FG% 30.5 PPG 6.8 assists 4.8 rebounds 2.1 steals

Vs TOR(7GMs): 38.5 FG% 33.7 PPG 6.8 assists 4.4 rebounds 3.1 steals

Vs IND(4GMs): 41 FG % 31.5 PPG 6.5 assists 4 rebounds 2 steals

So AI in series before the Finals: 37.6 FG% 31.9 PPG 6.7 assists 4.4 rebounds 2.4 steals

I will also point out that AI was VERY inconsistant in his stat sheet...one game he would go off for 40+ the next night he would have 20 or lower same goes for his assists.

Between Kobe and AI Kobe was the better player in those 01 playoffs and its upsetting that people dont give him the credit he deserves...had the Lakers been in the EAST and played SAN ANTONIO or the KINGS in the Finals he would of been MVP on those Finals teams instead of Shaq.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
05-20-2011, 11:24 AM
LOL Yea no one cares except for people who actually STUDY NBA STATISTICS, you know GM's like Daryl Morey, coaches like Stan Van Gundy, yea per possession metrics havent been taking over the field at all, this must be why you have a job within the NBA and all those statisticians are just making stuff up.

AI outdid Kobe in every irrelevant measure, its why you refused to post the efficiency to which they played, that you neglected to mention such a key component in a players statline, even when it comes to basic stats, proves your bias. Not that you needed to prove anything, you homerdom was secured the minute you created this handle, nobody takes you seriously when it comes to objective arguments about AI, and I sure as hell dont take your statistical analysis seriously.

Your right. I don't study NBA statistics. Nor do I care to. Also if you think AI put up higher #'s are irrelevent in the stats that around right in front of you... Than Chron... you're right again. I could care less if people don't take my Allen Iverson posts serious, cuz 96% percent of the people on this website never watched Allen Iverson play. And just base his judgment of the last 2 years of his career. Kobe's regular season stats weren't too far off of his Playoff stats... Why didn't Kobe win MVP?

AIMelo=KillaDUO
05-20-2011, 11:30 AM
LOL no you didnt watch Iverson play, see how much fun it is to tell other people what they have done. You also didnt watch AI nearly lose in every series despite having the superior team. He couldnt defend his own position and EVERY star outplayed him. In the first round Reggie crapped on the Sixers and showed AI how a star dominates the game without dominating the ball. Vince Carter outplayed AI in R2, putting up ridiculous #'s despite the fact that he was facing the far superior playoff defense. Then the Milwaukee series that many feel was rigged, AI still almost lost that series and saw Ray Allen tear his team up. Then the Finals, where him taking so long to make the Finals actually helped him because it meant the Lakers would be rusty for G1.


Incorrect, it took both Kobe and Shaq to play at a superior level to AI for their team to win, you replace either of them with AI and the team fails.


COMEDY :clap:

lol.... What superior teams are you talkin about?

When his 2nd option was a 40 year old Glen Robinson? Keithe Van Horn? Chris Webber with no knees, Dikembe Mutombo... Or how about when Kyle Korver was his 2nd option. Are those the superior teams your taling about? And for you to say AI got out did by Ray Allen & Reggie Miller... just go compare there statistics game to game. The Sixers beat the Bucks, Raptors, and Pacers that year so IDK why you said that. Come on Chron... Even you know what you just said wasn't true.

DoubleDragon
05-20-2011, 11:55 AM
2009 Lakers vs 2009 Magic

Kobe/Dwight

ouch

Kashmir13579
05-20-2011, 04:09 PM
Rip Hamilton - Kobe.

34Dayz
05-20-2011, 04:17 PM
While its true Iverson shot poorly in comparison to Kobe in 01 I think he would have shot a much higher % playing with the most dominate center of his era one that was routinely triple teamed during the playoffs from 99-03 granting all his wing players lots of freedom and open shots. :shrug:

and for the poster who said Kobe might have won FMVP over Shaq in 01 your only kidding yourself buddy. :facepalm:

Kobe was great in the 01 Playoffs but he didn't have even close to the impact that Prime Shaq did... not even the same ballpark. :facepalm:

Raph12
05-20-2011, 04:37 PM
2000 Lakers vs Pacers - Shaq & Reggie
2001 Lakers vs Sixers - Shaq & AI
2002 Lakers vs Nets - Shaq & Kidd
2003 Spurs vs Nets - Duncan & Kidd
2004 Lakers vs Pistons - Shaq & Billups
2005 Spurs vs Pistons - Duncan & Billups
2006 Mavs vs Heat - Dirk & Wade
2007 Spurs vs Cavs - Duncan & Lebron
2008 Lakers vs Celtics - Kobe & KG
2009 Lakers vs Magic - Kobe & Dwight
2010 Lakers vs Celtics - Gasol & Pierce

arkanian215
05-20-2011, 04:42 PM
YOU obviously need to check the stats...

1st round agains Indiana AI averaged...

31.5 PPG
6.5 APG
4.0 RPG

2nd Round against the Raptors AI averaged

33.7 PPG
6.8 APG
4.2 RPG

Confrence Finals AI averaged

30.5 PPG
6.8 APG
4.8 RPG

Finals against the LAkers AI averaged

35.6 PPG
3.8 APG
5.6 RPG

And trhought the playoffs he averaged 33, 6, and 5.... I'm not sure what drugs you were on in 2001 but Kobe did not outperform anyone, Let alone Allen Iverson.

AI shot under 40% to get those PPG's. How many players can score 30+ PPG if they only shoot 38%? I bet a whole bunch.

34Dayz
05-20-2011, 04:45 PM
Honestly that team Iverson had around him was terrible though, is it ridiculous of me to think that if you put Kobe on those teams he would have probably averaged similar numbers possibly on even worse shooting %'s?

I dont remember exactly but didn't A.I.'s shooting % skyrocket when he was on denver?

A.I. was also shown to be a very good passer when he was on the nuggets those sixer teams he was on really werent very good and I think its a testament to how good he was that he was able to get them to the final's and actually lead them to a victory over a lakers team that had a raging prime shaq and a young kobe.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
05-20-2011, 04:50 PM
AI shot under 40% to get those PPG's. How many players can score 30+ PPG if they only shoot 38%? I bet a whole bunch.

Well then why don't any other 30% shooters average 30 points right now... it lead the Sixers to 56 wins that season... So how unnsuccessful can it be/?

Bruno
05-20-2011, 04:56 PM
While its true Iverson shot poorly in comparison to Kobe in 01 I think he would have shot a much higher % playing with the most dominate center of his era one that was routinely triple teamed during the playoffs from 99-03 granting all his wing players lots of freedom and open shots. :shrug:

and for the poster who said Kobe might have won FMVP over Shaq in 01 your only kidding yourself buddy. :facepalm:

Kobe was great in the 01 Playoffs but he didn't have even close to the impact that Prime Shaq did... not even the same ballpark. :facepalm:

Bryant shot 46.4% during the 2001 regular season with "prime Shaq" He shot 46.3% during the 2007 regular season, post Shaq, pre Gasol. See what I'm getting at?

Shaq still had the edge over Bryant in 2001, but to say that they weren't even in the same ballpark is an exaggeration. Bryant led that team in WS for the playoffs, and posted 29-7-6 on 47% shooting in the process. Go find me another "#2" who put up numbers like that on the way to the title. (Wade and James this year might be your best bet in finding one; that is, if you'd have the audacity to call one of them the #1 over the other).

Bryant outperformed everyone not named Shaq during the 2001 playoffs. That's why the Laker went 15-1 on their way to become the most dominant post-season team ever. Because those two guys played like the best two players in the league, and carried a team of roll players to a dominant post season record. Iversons stats were not higher. Bryant had a higher PER, WS, WS/48, TS%, FG%, FT%, 3-point %, rebounds per game, assists per-48, and blocks. What did Iverson lead in? Points per game, and steals per game; thats it. Those are the facts.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html

knickfan33
05-20-2011, 04:59 PM
why did know one pair shaq and dirk.... who gonna guard that?

mightybosstone
05-20-2011, 05:10 PM
This thread is kind of fail. Essentially, you're all just saying the best player from each Finals team. Instead, how about coming up with an overall starting five and try to see which starting five would be the best? Wouldn't that be far more difficult and entertaining?

Bruno
05-20-2011, 05:10 PM
Honestly that team Iverson had around him was terrible though, is it ridiculous of me to think that if you put Kobe on those teams he would have probably averaged similar numbers possibly on even worse shooting %'s?

I dont remember exactly but didn't A.I.'s shooting % skyrocket when he was on denver?

A.I. was also shown to be a very good passer when he was on the nuggets those sixer teams he was on really werent very good and I think its a testament to how good he was that he was able to get them to the final's and actually lead them to a victory over a lakers team that had a raging prime shaq and a young kobe.

This entire first paragraph is speculation. That's what you think might have happened, no? Do you have any statistics to back up your opinion? The team around Iverson was not "terrible". Do you really think that a "terrible" team can make it to the finals?

The 2001 76ers were 7th in SRS, and they were the 5th ranked defensive team during the regular season. That team was anchored by Dikembe Mutombo, who was the 2001 defensive player of the year.

Regarding AI's FG% "sky-rocketing" once he arrived in Denver. AI shot 44.7% during his final full season with Phili. He shot 45.8% from the field in his first full season with Denver; a full point improvement. What he posted with Denver in '07-'08 did not surpass what he posted in '97-'98 with Phili when he shot 46.1% from the field (his career high for a season). Playing with great players does not automatically correlate to the given player of discussion shooting a higher FG%; it can, but is not an automatic truth that should be assumed.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/iversal01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/2001.html

34Dayz
05-20-2011, 05:13 PM
@Bruno :

So in 2001 if you were given the choice between Shaq or Kobe and your other 4 players would just be average/decent roleplayers your telling me you'd pick Kobe?

I dont know, personally I think alot of people dont realize what sort of impact Shaq really had in his Prime and people who try to equate the on court impact of any Version of Bryant to him to me seems absolutely insane I dont think they are on the same planet let alone ball park. IMO no guard outside of Prime Jordan had an impact on the game anywhere close to Shaq's in his Prime.

I think rare, top caliber bigmen have more of an impact on the game then guards do which is why I'd also much rather have a Prime Hakeem/Duncan/KG over probably any guard from this Era outside of Jordan.

Bruno
05-20-2011, 05:17 PM
@Bruno :

So in 2001 if you were given the choice between Shaq or Kobe and your other 4 players would just be average/decent roleplayers your telling me you'd pick Kobe?

Not at all, Shaq still had the edge and was the most dominant physical force in basketball.

I just objet to the notion that "they weren't even in the same ball park". To me, that is an exaggeration. Shaq was the 2001 finals MVP, and deservingly so; but that doesn't mean that Bryant wasn't close to him in production, he was.

Bruno
05-20-2011, 05:20 PM
why did know one pair shaq and dirk.... who gonna guard that?

In their primes, that'd be pretty amazing.

But Shaq was already 34 years old in 2006, he was already in decline (but still effective). I think others would argue that Wade/Dirk would be more deadly, since Wade had just entered his prime, and Shaq was leaving his.

knickfan33
05-20-2011, 05:24 PM
In their primes, that'd be pretty amazing.

But Shaq was already 34 years old in 2006, he was already in decline (but still effective). I think others would argue that Wade/Dirk would be more deadly, since Wade had just entered his prime, and Shaq was leaving his.

yeah i think that would still be a guarenteed ring, imagine the possabilitys... settin some screens to get pf on shaq in post or centers guarding dirk around the perimiter.... so ridiculous

Bruno
05-20-2011, 05:26 PM
I think rare, top caliber bigmen have more of an impact on the game then guards do which is why I'd also much rather have a Prime Hakeem/Duncan/KG over probably any guard from this Era outside of Jordan.

I think that's a very fair opinion to have, and I think a lot of great basketball minds would agree with you. It's hard to argue against the championship record of big men in comparison to guards.

But you don't have to diminish Bryants contributions just to make that point, or to believe in that point. You can admit that Bryant had a huge impact in 2001 (29-7-6 on 47%) and still acknowledge that Shaq was more dominant with out contradicting your preference for super-star big-men.

Bruno
05-20-2011, 05:27 PM
yeah i think that would still be a guarenteed ring, imagine the possabilitys... settin some screens to get pf on shaq in post or centers guarding dirk around the perimiter.... so ridiculous

It would have been; that duo would have collected a lot of hardware together.

ivylleague1'
05-20-2011, 05:28 PM
'00- Shaq & Reggie.
'01- Shaq & Kobe (check the stats, Bryant outperformed AI that post-season)
'02- Shaq & Kobe
'03- Duncan & Kidd
'04- Too tough to say. You could put 4-5 players here.
'05- Duncan & Ginobli
'06- Wade & Dirk
'07- Duncan & James
'08- Kobe & KG
'09- Kobe & Howard.

Cool thread JB.


AI averaged ~ 33 points/ game (#1, best in NBA), 2.4 steals (#1, best in NBA). Kobe was more efficient than AI shot 46+%. Kobe. averaged 29+ / game. (very good, not best, but a fantastic shooter).

Lake_Show2416
05-20-2011, 05:31 PM
yeah i think that would still be a guarenteed ring, imagine the possabilitys... settin some screens to get pf on shaq in post or centers guarding dirk around the perimiter.... so ridiculous

i agree with u, Shaq was still playing at a high level, Wade was not the Alpha & Dirk is just crazy good at wut he does

34Dayz
05-20-2011, 05:33 PM
I think Bryants performance in 01 was amazing I certainly wasnt trying to diminish how great he was that year in the playoffs, I just meant that I think its unfair to Shaq to say that their impacts on the court were similar or even relatively close because I truly do not believe that is the case. I also think having Shaq on the court made life much easier for Kobe and that most playoffs teams were thinking about one thing and one thing only how to stop or slowdown the Diesel.

I mean its not like when Kobe was dropping bombs all over the place the teams said : oh hey Kobe is torching us lets go single coverage on shaq XD.

Bruno
05-20-2011, 05:35 PM
AI averaged ~ 33 points/ game (#1, best in NBA), 2.4 steals (#1, best in NBA). Kobe was more efficient than AI shot 46+%. Kobe. averaged 29+ / game. (very good, not best, but a fantastic shooter).

All true. I have no gripe with this post.

My real issue with Iverson is that his 2001 post-season production dipped in comparison to his 2001 regular season numbers. His PER, WS/48, TS% all dipped in the playoffs. It was much more difficult for him to score efficiency once the intensity of playoff defense began.

Bruno
05-20-2011, 05:45 PM
I think Bryants performance in 01 was amazing I certainly wasnt trying to diminish how great he was that year in the playoffs, I just meant that I think its unfair to Shaq to say that their impacts on the court were similar or even relatively close because I truly do not believe that is the case I also think having Shaq on the court made life much easier for Kobe and that most playoffs teams were thinking about one thing and one thing only how to stop or slowdown the Diesel.

Playing with Shaq resulted in a lot of open jumpers for Kobe. Shaq took up a lot of space, and teams had to pack the paint to defend him. So yes, Shaq got Kobe open jumpers, and made it difficult for teams to double Kobe, but it was a double edged sword. Because of Shaqs domineering post presence, it was also more difficult for Bryant to attack the bucket and to get "easy looks" in the paint; because of Shaqs presence, Bryant had to stay out on the perimeter. Shooting 47% despite not having ample opportunity to dominate the paint is very impressive for a guard.

If that's what you believe, then there's not much else I can say or do other than to present their playoff numbers:

Shaq: PPG: 30.4, RPG: 15.4 APG: 3.2, TS%: .564, PER: 28.7, WS: 3.7
Kobe: PPG: 29.4, RPG: 7.3, APG: 6.1, TS%: .555, PER: 25.0, WS: 3.8

To me, those statistics reflect two players who both produced at a very high level, with a slight edge to Shaq.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2001.html

34Dayz
05-20-2011, 05:50 PM
erased : lol

I agree that Kobe produced at a very high level in the playoffs that year but I think Shaq really anchored that teams defense and offense and thus was significantly more valuable. Also I think Prime Shaq effected the game more then his number's alone showed (even though his numbers were very good) but we all have our own opinions so its cool :).

Dash
05-20-2011, 06:23 PM
2004 Lakers vs 2004 Pistons
2005 Spurs vs 2005 Pistons

Memmmmmmmories ohhhhhhhhh memorrrrrrrries

3RDASYSTEM
05-20-2011, 06:35 PM
What does PER have to do with being the only scorer on your squad? for those to keep saying he shot a low FG pct and so many shots why in the world is a 5'9 guy good enough to be the only viable scoring threat and plays 44minutes plus?i guess it would be lack of options/talent right or maybe like CHRONZ said he had a 'superior' team, if so then the Lakers had a College squad with Kobe and Shaq,the more we talk about the team he carried the more people will realize the impact he had and the struggles of being the only scorer will lead to low FG pct especially being a 5'9 SG getting triple/quad teamed,do the people on here posting realize he had no other teammate get game planned for on the OFF side of the ball,it was AI or bust ala like BARRY SANDERS in Detroit or VICK in ATL days, and when a guy gets triple teamed(SHAQ) before they cross half court ANY NBA player whos a 2nd option will get enhanced by default from having such a dominant presence on the court, that why AI said way back when SHAQ/KOBE got swept twice they first 3 seasons together that 'he would never get swept with SHAQ on his squad,they may not win the series but he said they would never get swept, and if you put that AI on that squad with SHAQ they go to at least a Finals those first 3yrs easily, they were easily the dominant Perimeter/Interior players individually

Hey CHRONZ if Lynch/Hill/Mckie/Snow is the core of a superior team then i dont know how the NBA ever survived in the first place as a Biz,AI made that team superior,sat out the last 5 or he would have taken that squad to 60wins
Mckie avg 11.6 PPG(he avg 4-6PPG before AI)
Mutombo at 34yrs of age put up like 11.7 PPG

So his 2nd option(Robin) was a slow footed old shot blocker and they traded the more athletic big(Ratliff) who complimented him better and they had a better W-L record with him also and the yr before he wins almost 50 games with Geiger/McCullough at C spot,and then when Mckie/Snow come and play with him they each sign 40million dollar contracts from playing with AI and that crippled the team cuz they werent worth a both combined 20million let alone 40a piece,so they invested AI's prime with a core of Mckie/Snow and a slow footed Mutombo to team up with the fastest guy in the league,no wonder they fired Pat Croce cuz he would have put the right pieces around him and they knew it and sent him packing
Basketball is about having talent/playmakers and regardless wat the media feeds you,everyones a 'role' player, from the Superstar to 10th man they all have a role to fill and play it to upmost ability

KOBE got a beast mode Shaq for his first 8yrs(hes so JETER like) wins 3 rings in 4Finals then gets Artest/Bynum/Gasol/Odom for a his 2nd half career run and gets 2 more rings in 3 Finals, now compare those players and tell me who carried a heavier load, and use your 'eye' vision, not the PER thing that has no effect on the outcome of a game,but 'talent/playmakers' do

Im no genuis but who wins in a vote for basketball talent supremacy,who would the so called experts take ? a collection of MCKIE/SNOW/LYNCH/HILL/KORVER/IGGY/ or of SHAQ/HORRY/RICE/VAN EXEL/GASOL/ARTEST/ODOM/BYNUM and even throw FISH in there cuz of his clutchness, take your time and dont get a heachache from wondering wat dynamic collection to chose from, and for good measure throw in WEBBER(retired a yr later after AI) or BIG DOG(broken down in Philly,but won a ring with Spurs like the following yr and never played,WOW) but i'll count MELO as legit but AI was a old 32yrs,carrying that weak franchise for a decade took its toll

Its really this basic and simple, in 97 thru 98 draft the 2 core pieces should have been TMAC/NOWITZKI but instead they drafted THOMAS/HUGHES and then later traded THOMAS for the slow footed VAN HORN to team up with the fastest guy in the league,they did him ill from day one puttin those slow footed guys(MCCULLOUGH/GEIGER/VAN HORN/MUTOMBO)with him and no other reliable scorer,can you imagine the relief he would have had from a TMAC/NOWITZKI support and a Larry Brown D Scheme and they had BOWEN/BELL/HILL and a few other solid defenders,they would have been contending for 10 solid yrs,Its all good to have a xcellent D squad with 2 scorers at least but not just 1 scorer and i dont care if he's a Footer(DURANT)you still need at least 2,its the fact that 1 scorer took a squad to Champ.round, never been done in history of the sport,and hes about 7-8inches shorter than your fave player

and its a nice gap between being a chucker and shooting with a purpose,its only reserved for those who play BBall,Sincerely

kArSoN RyDaH
05-20-2011, 10:56 PM
2001: Kobe and AI
2000: Kobe and Reggie
2002: Kobe and Kidd
2004: Kobe and Wallace
2008: Kobe and Garnett
2009: Kobe and Dwight
2010: Kobe and Rondo


KOBE!!! LMBO!

wjmoffatt
05-20-2011, 11:35 PM
This ones obvious, Dwight Howard and Kobe Bryant, what other one on this list is there a possibility that fantasy can become reality!

MiamiBoy77
05-21-2011, 12:14 AM
2011: lebron and dirk

jinx

jp611
05-21-2011, 12:15 AM
How'd I know JB made this thread :laugh:

Ezio
05-21-2011, 12:41 AM
How'd I know JB made this thread :laugh:

We all know

swirl54
05-21-2011, 12:45 AM
2001 Shaq and Iverson