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View Full Version : Wolves GM Kahn insinuates draft lottery is rigged



GodsSon
05-17-2011, 11:39 PM
Wolves general manager David Kahn said he knew Minnesota was "dead" when it got down to the final three of himself, Utah executive Kevin O'Connor and Nick Gilbert.

"This league has a habit, and I am just going to say habit, of producing some pretty incredible story lines," Kahn said. "Last year it was Abe Pollin's widow and this year it was a 14-year-old boy and the only thing we have in common is we have both been bar mitzvahed. We were done. I told Kevin: 'We're toast.' This is not happening for us and I was right."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2011/news/story?id=6560322

I wonder if he gets fined lol

bholly
05-17-2011, 11:41 PM
The TWolves most likely outcome was 4th. Headline should be 'David Kahn beats the odds and complains about it.'

John Walls Era
05-17-2011, 11:44 PM
I actually didn't know he was Jewish (what did he mean about the Bar Mitzvah thing?).

Does this mean he wants Irving?

JordansBulls
05-17-2011, 11:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mN3OGRGybA&playnext=1&list=PL1E57E8242CEF3164

StriveGreatness
05-17-2011, 11:46 PM
I agree with Kahn.

CityofChaos
05-17-2011, 11:52 PM
I agree with Kahn.

x2

The NBA loves feel good stories

Giraffes Rule
05-17-2011, 11:53 PM
You mean the NBA wants the Cavs to put together a competitive team to maybe meet the Heat in the playoffs? Nah man, that's crazy.

C-ross12
05-17-2011, 11:55 PM
Complain when a big market struggling team leapfrogs 5 or 6 teams for the #1 pick... Dont complain when the Cavs, who are clearly in a far worst position, beat you out. Foolishness.

Master Mind
05-17-2011, 11:57 PM
I got to say, I agree...

VinceGully
05-17-2011, 11:59 PM
DOUBLE POST:

I was JUST saying to someone earlier..."aren't conspiracy theorist the most annoying"

Bin Laden is still alive right? or has been dead for 10 years?

bulldog312
05-18-2011, 12:03 AM
aren't conspiracy theorist the most annoying

:nod:

j-bay
05-18-2011, 12:03 AM
you know the wizards kind of deserved it because their founder died but gilberts 14 year son has nothing to do with basketball

knicks_champ
05-18-2011, 12:04 AM
Of course it is! Not to hate but c'mon how weird is it that the Cavs and Bulls got the number #1 pick when there was a home town prospect projected to go 1st overall.

But I can be wrong 

Sadds The Gr8
05-18-2011, 12:05 AM
he's right

SP17
05-18-2011, 12:06 AM
they still would not draft erving with the no 1 pick..no biggie

LakersIn5
05-18-2011, 12:06 AM
i dont understand the pity for the cavs. it's their fault they suck but they get rewarded with the top pick???

Chill_Will_24
05-18-2011, 12:06 AM
Bad idea to invite the Bulls "for dinner" cuz they ate your @$$ up in game 1.

your sig :drool:

Master Mind
05-18-2011, 12:12 AM
Seriously though it's all about story lines...From hometown kids to widows to scorned teams represented by diseased kids, the NBA is pretty much scripted. They really need to just implement a new system because the lottery is flaweddddd. I don't mean to bang the same drum but seriously, Chicago had a 1% chance of getting the first pick in 08'--Miami had a 25% chance. Was it just a coincidence that Derrick Rose was from Chicago :eyebrow:...2011 NBA Draft/Lottery storyline-- 2010 Hometown kid Lebron (2003 1st overall pick of Cavs) leaves Cleveland, everyone feels sorry for Cleveland--Cleveland rewarded 2 lottery picks including the first overall...It doesn't get better than that. :pity:

allSUAVE
05-18-2011, 12:15 AM
I agree if he gets fined then it's true

macc
05-18-2011, 12:16 AM
I'm not going to say anything was rigged or anything like that, but once that little boy was there in place of the Cavs. I had a feeling that Cleveland would get the 1st pic.

NYtilIdie
05-18-2011, 12:16 AM
If you think the league is rigged then don't watch!

RipCity32
05-18-2011, 12:17 AM
Throw 2 ping pong balls in with a hundred and see how many times your lucky 2 come out

Il Mago50
05-18-2011, 12:17 AM
Anyone who has any proof that it isn't please stand up. Anyone who understands that all these teams with next to nothing odds getting high picks being statistically impossible the number of times it happens, put you're hand up.

I lose more and more respect for this league each and every year. If the Heat win the title this year, it's the final straw. I'll watch my Raps but I'm moving on to more wide open and competitive Euroleague.

Wisdom Listens
05-18-2011, 12:18 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mN3OGRGybA&playnext=1&list=PL1E57E8242CEF3164

Once a cheater..........

VinceGully
05-18-2011, 12:21 AM
Anyone who has any proof that it isn't please stand up. Anyone who understands that all these teams with next to nothing odds getting high picks being statistically impossible the number of times it happens, put you're hand up.

I lose more and more respect for this league each and every year. If the Heat win the title this year, it's the final straw. I'll watch my Raps but I'm moving on to more wide open and competitive Euroleague.

But if the Heat lose...will you stop sharing your opinons on conspiracy?

serious question...not baiting.;)

Il Mago50
05-18-2011, 12:23 AM
I'm not going to say anything was rigged or anything like that, but once that little boy was there in place of the Cavs. I had a feeling that Cleveland would get the 1st pic.

Like ****, I understand the kid has gone through hard times in his life but for **** sakes he's a billionaire's son and there are about a thousand organizations just like their's which are probably much more effective. Kevin Johnson's city is this close to losing the team that use to be the crown and jewel of the league for revenue and attendence and he slides down to seventh. David Kahn's team has never gotten a break in the draft and not surprisingly, they slide down. The Raptors have never gotten a break and can't compete with U.S. team on most free agents and they didn't get a break.

Yet Cleveland, who just had Lebron and title contenders for 7 years get another two top flight players in the draft. It's ridiculous. But honestly, I half expect every team in the lottery next year to bring one of Antonio Cromarie's children to represent them and expect the first overall pick.

twoearl
05-18-2011, 12:26 AM
lol. I won't say the league is rigged but you gotta admit if I was a detective I would investigate just to make sure.

Il Mago50
05-18-2011, 12:28 AM
But if the Heat lose...will you stop sharing your opinons on conspiracy?

serious question...not baiting.;)

No, it's still rigged and I stand by it. If something seems like a co-incidence and occurs multiple times, then it isn't a co-incidence. If the league gets rid of the draft age rule, put on a hard cap and make changes to make the league more competitive and give 8-10 teams a legit shot at winning a title instead of needing three all-stars to even be in the conversation, then maybe I'll shut my mouth.

gaughan333
05-18-2011, 12:32 AM
Since the day the bulls got the right to pick rose i knew this was rigged. We had like a 1.8% chance or something crazy

momoneyyyy
05-18-2011, 12:33 AM
rose going to hometown chicago, lebron to his hometown of cleveland makes sence

Wiz kids
05-18-2011, 12:34 AM
Never understood why they don't do the ping-pong draws live to rid of a conspiracy talk.

Bruno
05-18-2011, 12:34 AM
No denying that it's suspicious. Kahn chose his words wisely; story-line.

gaughan333
05-18-2011, 12:39 AM
he chose his words very carefully which was smart. The thing I have a huge issue with is that the cavs got the first and fourth pick. Not like 1 and 8 or something like that.

znick21
05-18-2011, 12:44 AM
this is seriously the biggest load of horse **** i've ever heard in my entire life. the nba gives the cavs the first pick because they had a sick kid represent them? give me a break, if that were the case then every team in the league would bring a sick kid to represent them.

kahn needs to stop drinking bitter beer and focus on being a competent gm for once. sign rubio like you promised the last 2 years, hopefully he'll produce half as much as you hype him up, take derrick williams and be happy with it.

jesus christ.

VinceGully
05-18-2011, 12:48 AM
No, it's still rigged and I stand by it. If something seems like a co-incidence and occurs multiple times, then it isn't a co-incidence. If the league gets rid of the draft age rule, put on a hard cap and make changes to make the league more competitive and give 8-10 teams a legit shot at winning a title instead of needing three all-stars to even be in the conversation, then maybe I'll shut my mouth.

If I can accomplish all of these things...do you promise? kidding.

I dont agree with the lottery AT ALL...but besides the stupid story about the "sick kid" how does Cleveland being successful helo the NBA? and you REALLY think the NBA likes Dan Gilbert that much right now??? I dont think so. They already had 2 picks in the lottery, why not Sacramento with their story all year of leaving? Why not make Mike successful in Charlotte? Why not build the market in Canada (before it completely fails like Vancouver did)? Im sure you can find a story in every city...The conspiracies are fun to hear and entertaining...but I think you are giving Stern too much credit.

FriedTofuz
05-18-2011, 12:51 AM
Kahn was tanking, and thats what happends

FriedTofuz
05-18-2011, 12:55 AM
I actually didn't know he was Jewish (what did he mean about the Bar Mitzvah thing?).

Does this mean he wants Irving?

hes saying that the only thing he has in common with Nick Gilbert is that they are both jewish since they both celebrated their bar mitzvah.

Crackadalic
05-18-2011, 01:09 AM
Isnt the cavs first pick from the clippers? I'm seeing it everywhere on espn and nbatv. If it is how is it rigged? If anything the clippers shouldnt have made it unprotected

IBleedPurple
05-18-2011, 01:11 AM
Not necessarily saying it's fixed, but the spots won for the last couple years has been strange

Pat Thetic
05-18-2011, 01:13 AM
If I can accomplish all of these things...do you promise? kidding.

I dont agree with the lottery AT ALL...but besides the stupid story about the "sick kid" how does Cleveland being successful helo the NBA? and you REALLY think the NBA likes Dan Gilbert that much right now??? I dont think so. They already had 2 picks in the lottery, why not Sacramento with their story all year of leaving? Why not make Mike successful in Charlotte? Why not build the market in Canada (before it completely fails like Vancouver did)? Im sure you can find a story in every city...The conspiracies are fun to hear and entertaining...but I think you are giving Stern too much credit.

Because Ohio is #7 in population.
A huge market with no competition.
And people equal money.

Pat Thetic
05-18-2011, 01:30 AM
OH...thats why the Knicks got all of those #1 picks those years that they SUCKED! (after they traded their first round picks to the Bulls of course) thanx for clearing that up!

Patrick Ewing

SP17
05-18-2011, 01:38 AM
he chose his words very carefully which was smart. The thing I have a huge issue with is that the cavs got the first and fourth pick. Not like 1 and 8 or something like that.

you do know that when of the higher lotto picks are skip at their right place they are assured of a top 3 pick right? like what happened to the jazz and cavs.
Also the original no 2 pick of the cavs drop to no 4 because those 2 later picks move in to top 3.

NYY NYJ NYK
05-18-2011, 01:44 AM
If it is "fixed" why haven't the Knicks won the lottery since 1985 ?

It would of made sense to give them the #1 overall pick while they were struggling ?

VinceGully
05-18-2011, 01:47 AM
If it is "fixed" why haven't the Knicks won the lottery since 1985 ?

It would of made sense to give them the #1 overall pick while they were struggling ?

this.

fadedmario
05-18-2011, 01:54 AM
I wish Kahn was our commissioner. Stern is a ****ing clown

FarOutIos
05-18-2011, 01:57 AM
Why does this make sense? Well here it is folks...

The Cavs were devastated by the departure of Lebron. You have a whole city that hates the NBA. They are desperate for talent on the team.

Honestly... who do they have? Hickson? Sessions? Who is their best player?

Minnesota didn't win because they have Kevin Love. They also have Wesley Johnson and Beasly. Some decent young talent. They could use another good player... but doing OK.

Washington has Javale McGee and Wall. Again, a couple of really good building blocks.

Teams like my Kings didn't win because we already have Cousins, Tyreke and Thornton.

Which team really needs more talent then Cleveland? Probably no one. And thus, a draft that not only gives them a first pick... but a fourth pick as well. That's the part that's odd. If they had won the lottery with their own pick... I don't think ANYONE would be complaining. They deserve it.

Now... how can there be a conspiracy theory if there are no big market teams winning the lottery? There's the simple part. The small markets win when there are no big stars coming out. Only Lebron was the exception, but that pick was a home town pick.

I think the next either Boston or the Lakers miss the playoffs... you can put money on them getting a top 3 pick... Probably #1.

Or maybe my Kings will get it next year if we don't get our Arena worked out and our team ends up moving to Anaheim...

Hawkeye15
05-18-2011, 01:58 AM
I don't even care to look thru this thread.

Fact is, the draft is indeed rigged. Wolves are now 0-14.

I am fine with their pick, but I do agree, the behind the scenes drawing is corrupt, period.

Sadds The Gr8
05-18-2011, 02:00 AM
I don't even care to look thru this thread.

Fact is, the draft is indeed rigged. Wolves are now 0-14.

I am fine with their pick, but I do agree, the behind the scenes drawing is corrupt, period.

agreed. it's a joke

Rego247
05-18-2011, 02:05 AM
I don't even care to look thru this thread.

Fact is, the draft is indeed rigged. Wolves are now 0-14.

I am fine with their pick, but I do agree, the behind the scenes drawing is corrupt, period.

yup.

theLgndKllr35
05-18-2011, 02:05 AM
Are you guys serious? Do you really think they could get away with this?

fadedmario
05-18-2011, 02:06 AM
Are you guys serious? Do you really think they could get away with this?

Stern's a puppet master. Be a great day when he steps down. NBA = WWE

bosox3431
05-18-2011, 02:18 AM
I believe it is and has been for as long as the lotto has been around. Maybe not every year, but some years are. And I include the rose draft in there as a bulls fan. There's really no other reason to have a draft, since it basically cancells out what the draft is meant to so.

sacgiants1213
05-18-2011, 02:21 AM
What i want to know is why don't they show the lottery process to the public? I hate that this BS is behind closed doors...

ElFuturoDeESPN
05-18-2011, 02:27 AM
What i want to know is why don't they show the lottery process to the public? I hate that this BS is behind closed doors...

My thoughts as well, bro. I cried foul earlier tonight when the balls started spinning and they went to a commercial break.

Logos should be printed on the ping pong balls and pulled out live so everyone can see, none of this printing logos on the cards anymore and hiding it from the public anymore.

But we all know that will never, ever happen. Not as long as Stern is still in charge.

harm0n1x
05-18-2011, 02:32 AM
No, it's still rigged and I stand by it. If something seems like a co-incidence and occurs multiple times, then it isn't a co-incidence. If the league gets rid of the draft age rule, put on a hard cap and make changes to make the league more competitive and give 8-10 teams a legit shot at winning a title instead of needing three all-stars to even be in the conversation, then maybe I'll shut my mouth.

So the nba is rigged right? How about James, wade, and bosh singing the same exact contract 3 years ago and Miami completely clearing their cap space?? With one player left on their roster? shut the hell up. grow old and die, thanks.

D-Amazins
05-18-2011, 02:34 AM
Seriously though it's all about story lines...From hometown kids to widows to scorned teams represented by diseased kids, the NBA is pretty much scripted. They really need to just implement a new system because the lottery is flaweddddd. I don't mean to bang the same drum but seriously, Chicago had a 1% chance of getting the first pick in 08'--Miami had a 25% chance. Was it just a coincidence that Derrick Rose was from Chicago :eyebrow:...2011 NBA Draft/Lottery storyline-- 2010 Hometown kid Lebron (2003 1st overall pick of Cavs) leaves Cleveland, everyone feels sorry for Cleveland--Cleveland rewarded 2 lottery picks including the first overall...It doesn't get better than that. :pity:

Like can I just say that I knew some things about the NBA were rigged (i.e Slam dunk contest, ref's rigging games..etc.) But now that I think about it...you are completely right...these are stories and thus become ANOTHER social media topic like everything else that's thrown on TV. But remember Media is used to divert your attention from the REAL things going on in the world like the war. Look how ppl from cleveland reacted to LBJ leaving...like Eddie Griffin said..ITS JUST BASKETBALL...You dont even know the guy, all he does is dribble? Look how we show more rage emotion towards that rather then 9/11.....PITIFUL.

Sadds The Gr8
05-18-2011, 02:36 AM
What i want to know is why don't they show the lottery process to the public? I hate that this BS is behind closed doors...

exactly...wtf do they have to lose?

D-Amazins
05-18-2011, 02:39 AM
For all you guys trying to use the Knicks to throw off the 'rigged' title the NBA got...remember that even if the Knicks suck...they STILL manage to gross a **** load of money.

championships
05-18-2011, 02:41 AM
Why does this make sense? Well here it is folks...

The Cavs were devastated by the departure of Lebron. You have a whole city that hates the NBA. They are desperate for talent on the team.

Honestly... who do they have? Hickson? Sessions? Who is their best player?

Minnesota didn't win because they have Kevin Love. They also have Wesley Johnson and Beasly. Some decent young talent. They could use another good player... but doing OK.

Washington has Javale McGee and Wall. Again, a couple of really good building blocks.

Teams like my Kings didn't win because we already have Cousins, Tyreke and Thornton.

Which team really needs more talent then Cleveland? Probably no one. And thus, a draft that not only gives them a first pick... but a fourth pick as well. That's the part that's odd. If they had won the lottery with their own pick... I don't think ANYONE would be complaining. They deserve it.

Now... how can there be a conspiracy theory if there are no big market teams winning the lottery? There's the simple part. The small markets win when there are no big stars coming out. Only Lebron was the exception, but that pick was a home town pick.

I think the next either Boston or the Lakers miss the playoffs... you can put money on them getting a top 3 pick... Probably #1.

Or maybe my Kings will get it next year if we don't get our Arena worked out and our team ends up moving to Anaheim...


You can keep the Lakers out of your story. In the 26 years this lottery system has been in place, The Lakers have only been apart of it twice.

Both times resulted in the #10 pick (Eddie Jones 94 and Andrew bynum 05).

Lloyd Christmas
05-18-2011, 02:44 AM
For all you guys trying to use the Knicks to throw off the 'rigged' title the NBA got...remember that even if the Knicks suck...they STILL manage to gross a **** load of money.

This is probably why the Warriors get screwed too. They always fill their building no matter how bad they are so why give them a top pick?

turnaround3
05-18-2011, 02:56 AM
Of course it is! Not to hate but c'mon how weird is it that the Cavs and Bulls got the number #1 pick when there was a home town prospect projected to go 1st overall.

But I can be wrong 

How weird is that the Thunder (4th best chance) didn't get to go #1 and draft Griffin in 2009?

How weird is it that the Pacers (11th best chance) didn't get to go #1 and draft Oden in 2007?

How weird is it that the Hawks (4th best chance) didn't get to go #1 and draft Howard in 2004?

Seriously, shut the **** up. These draft conspiracy theorists drive me insane. Including David "Somebody please come play with Kevin Love" Kahn.

bholly
05-18-2011, 03:07 AM
I don't even care to look thru this thread.

Fact is, the draft is indeed rigged. Wolves are now 0-14.

I am fine with their pick, but I do agree, the behind the scenes drawing is corrupt, period.

It's a real shame even the mods are dumb enough to carry on this ********.

Minnesota are actually 0-15, according to the NBA.com lottery history. But if you look at the odds (like I'd just did) you'd see that there was a 13.5% probability of that happening, given their probabilities in each lottery. If you ever used a 13.5% chance occurrence as evidence of anything to a scientist, or anyone who's taken even an introductory stats course, or really anyone with half a brain, they'd laugh in your face. That's barely less likely than rolling a 6. If you picked up a die right now, and rolled a 6, would you say 'this die is rigged. Period.'? No, because that would make you an idiot. That's essentially what you're doing.

If you look at their drafts since 2005 (the 7 lotteries for which I could be bothered digging up full odds), they've picked above their most likely spot twice (2 spots above this year, 1 spot above in 2008), below their most likely spot once (1 spot below in 2007) and at their most likely spot the other 4 times.

Taking into account all their probabilities, not just the most likely, their average expected pick in those years is 5.5987, while their average actual pick is 6. So over the last 7 drafts, they've run, on average, less than half a pick below where they should expect to. That's amazingly close to expectation with such a small sample size.

Seriously, using Minny as proof the draft is rigged is completely ridiculous. Any half assed statistical analysis can show that they don't run bad at all. The assertion is statistically laughable, and it does a disservice to the forum that a respected poster repeats it.

championships
05-18-2011, 03:16 AM
Maybe the Twolves should fork out the money and put a playoff team out there instead of being cheap and ending up in the lottery every year.

Master Mind
05-18-2011, 03:41 AM
Like can I just say that I knew some things about the NBA were rigged (i.e Slam dunk contest, ref's rigging games..etc.) But now that I think about it...you are completely right...these are stories and thus become ANOTHER social media topic like everything else that's thrown on TV. But remember Media is used to divert your attention from the REAL things going on in the world like the war. Look how ppl from cleveland reacted to LBJ leaving...like Eddie Griffin said..ITS JUST BASKETBALL...You dont even know the guy, all he does is dribble? Look how we show more rage emotion towards that rather then 9/11.....PITIFUL.

:clap: :hi5:

D1JM
05-18-2011, 04:04 AM
Wtf is Kahn *****ing about. Stern did him a ****en favor from drafting another point guard.

JNA17
05-18-2011, 04:05 AM
Kahn, you would have used your pick on a PG anyway.

JNA17
05-18-2011, 04:06 AM
Wtf is Kahn *****ing about. Stern did him a ****en favor from drafting another point guard.

Beat me to it :laugh2:

RollinDeep
05-18-2011, 05:47 AM
Wtf is Kahn *****ing about. Stern did him a ****en favor from drafting another point guard.

:laugh:

Well, there is still hope for Kahn yet. Brandon Knight's still on the table.

Anilyzer
05-18-2011, 06:07 AM
I honestly don't care if it's rigged, but PLEASE find a way to rig it without having the referees call 60-70 fouls in a single playoff game.

It's ridiculous, boring, primitive and has to be the most backassward way of fixing a game. If it's NOT fixed, and teams are shooting 100 FTs in televised playoff games, than in a way that is even worse.

sheps88
05-18-2011, 06:28 AM
So I have a question how long does this ping pong ball process go for? Why not just do it live on TV with results posted as they happen. BTW its not just NBA that is flawed. NHL as well. Pittsburgh on the verge of moving the team and bam here comes Crosby.

IBleedPurple
05-18-2011, 06:33 AM
It's a real shame even the mods are dumb enough to carry on this ********.

Minnesota are actually 0-15, according to the NBA.com lottery history. But if you look at the odds (like I'd just did) you'd see that there was a 13.5% probability of that happening, given their probabilities in each lottery. If you ever used a 13.5% chance occurrence as evidence of anything to a scientist, or anyone who's taken even an introductory stats course, or really anyone with half a brain, they'd laugh in your face. That's barely less likely than rolling a 6. If you picked up a die right now, and rolled a 6, would you say 'this die is rigged. Period.'? No, because that would make you an idiot. That's essentially what you're doing.

If you look at their drafts since 2005 (the 7 lotteries for which I could be bothered digging up full odds), they've picked above their most likely spot twice (2 spots above this year, 1 spot above in 2008), below their most likely spot once (1 spot below in 2007) and at their most likely spot the other 4 times.

Taking into account all their probabilities, not just the most likely, their average expected pick in those years is 5.5987, while their average actual pick is 6. So over the last 7 drafts, they've run, on average, less than half a pick below where they should expect to. That's amazingly close to expectation with such a small sample size.

Seriously, using Minny as proof the draft is rigged is completely ridiculous. Any half assed statistical analysis can show that they don't run bad at all. The assertion is statistically laughable, and it does a disservice to the forum that a respected poster repeats it.

Well done sir


Maybe the Twolves should fork out the money and put a playoff team out there instead of being cheap and ending up in the lottery every year.

This.

I've suffered through some terrible teams with the Nuggets in the late 90's/early 2000's. As soon as they drafted Melo, they went from being cheap bottom feeders to annually signing some of the better FA's. It may not have resulted in a title, but they were always competitive. The Wolves have Love, time to fork out some cash.

bholly
05-18-2011, 06:35 AM
So I have a question how long does this ping pong ball process go for? Why not just do it live on TV with results posted as they happen. BTW its not just NBA that is flawed. NHL as well. Pittsburgh on the verge of moving the team and bam here comes Crosby.

There's a whole other thread about it, but the ping pong balls are less entertaining/exciting than just the final reveal, and they don't go in the backwards order that the NBA likes to do. Also it could take three draws or it could take twenty, so it could be pretty boring.

I agree they should release the lists of combinations beforehand and the footage afterwards to anyone who wants it, but I'm not entirely sure it would make a difference. People who think it could be rigged even though a rep from their team is there, as well as independent auditors, are going to find it just as easy to say they rigged the machine in the first place, so seeing it doesn't change anything, or that the video is doctored.

TO to the CHI
05-18-2011, 06:52 AM
I don't really get all the outrage over this year's draft order. First of all, I am a Raptors fan, so my team got screwed worse than anybody. Second of all, Cleveland had virtually the same chance as Minnesota to get the first pick (when combining their own numbers with those of the Clippers). Sure it is a surprise that Cleveland got there with the Clippers pick, but the overall order is not all that shocking on that front. Similarly, Utah moving up to third sucks as a Raps fan and sucks for other teams that got pushed down, but with their combined chances (their pick and New Jersey) it is not all that surprising. Third, the reality is that the team with the worst record has a 1 in 4 chance to get the first overall pick. Over the last few years, that hasn't happened, but a much bigger sample size would be needed to identify any real variation let alone one that suggests an impropriety. Fourth, even if Stern wanted to help teams out, why wouldn't he have given Minny the first pick (considering they have never had the first overall pick before and would benefit greatly). He then could have given the Cleveland 2 and 4 (still a massive shot in the arm considering many teams are torn between Irving and Williams anyways), and given Utah or Toronto the third pick (both teams need the shot in the arm). The 14 year old kid was a feel good story but is not indicative of a rigged draft lottery. To me, if anything, it suggests that the results are not so confidential as they are purported to be, but it doesn't suggest cheating. Besides, using only a modicum of common sense, it is clear that cheating in this fashion is far too risky for the NBA as it would destroy the league's credibility.

h2r09
05-18-2011, 06:56 AM
its not fixed but it is awful. if you are outside the top 3 or so you shouldnt be able to get the first pick. it should be like the nhl's lottery where the team who wins is characterized by moving up 2 spaces. it is ridiculous to have a team that was the 9th worst team record wise winning the lottery very often. that is why you hve the same teams back there every year to go along with bad management. if you are constantly getting screwed like the wolves are you dont stand a chance.

faridk89
05-18-2011, 07:15 AM
its not fixed but it is awful. if you are outside the top 3 or so you shouldnt be able to get the first pick. it should be like the nhl's lottery where the team who wins is characterized by moving up 2 spaces. it is ridiculous to have a team that was the 9th worst team record wise winning the lottery very often. that is why you hve the same teams back there every year to go along with bad management. if you are constantly getting screwed like the wolves are you dont stand a chance.

I agree why should the 9th worst team in the league get a chance at the number one pick, I feel the pain being a raps fan after this lottery....I don't see us getting an impact player now :(

ttam68
05-18-2011, 07:28 AM
How weird is that the Thunder (4th best chance) didn't get to go #1 and draft Griffin in 2009?

How weird is it that the Pacers (11th best chance) didn't get to go #1 and draft Oden in 2007?

How weird is it that the Hawks (4th best chance) didn't get to go #1 and draft Howard in 2004?

Seriously, shut the **** up. These draft conspiracy theorists drive me insane. Including David "Somebody please come play with Kevin Love" Kahn.

Thank you. You and BHolly added some sense to this thread.

The NBA can leave you questioning sometimes, but the lottery is the last thing I'm worried about. There's a BS "feel good story" with every team, so you can't just select after hand and claim its rigged. And Hawkeye I can't believe you're part of this. Sad.

Westbrook36
05-18-2011, 07:30 AM
Bad luck for the Kings, but the Wolves should be happy with Derrick Williams :shrug:

The Smurf
05-18-2011, 07:58 AM
Anyone who has any proof that it isn't please stand up. Anyone who understands that all these teams with next to nothing odds getting high picks being statistically impossible the number of times it happens, put you're hand up.

I lose more and more respect for this league each and every year. If the Heat win the title this year, it's the final straw. I'll watch my Raps but I'm moving on to more wide open and competitive Euroleague.



Anyone who understands statistics will quickly destroy your argument. The sample size is way too low to make any arguments. That being said, the NBA draft lottery is rigged.

redsox0717
05-18-2011, 08:00 AM
I don't even care to look thru this thread.

Fact is, the draft is indeed rigged. Wolves are now 0-14.

I am fine with their pick, but I do agree, the behind the scenes drawing is corrupt, period.

It's funny how you are so quick to say the NBA is rigged when something bad happens to your team, but when it comes to refereeing being rigged, you say it's implausible. Priceless.

fishfan79
05-18-2011, 08:05 AM
it is possible, the nba might be shifting talent where they want like rose to chicago.

But, I doubt it.

Raven-Lunatic
05-18-2011, 08:07 AM
Call me crazy but I kinda feel like the Cavs getting the 1st and 4th overall picks were compensation for the whole Lebron fiasco. Wolves GM might be on to something but we will never find out for sure.

blacknell
05-18-2011, 08:15 AM
its not like he was lying they just need to do it like the NFL does there draft

ccg34
05-18-2011, 08:17 AM
The NBA is definitely rigged. D Rose to the Bulls (hometown kid), Lebron (hometown kid) to Cleveland, KD (help make a smooth transition to OKC) to Seattle, John Wall (Owner died), and now Cleveland (Losing Lebron) with the #1 and #4 pick. The lottery is a joke and it is just a tool to gain more money.

Hawkeye15
05-18-2011, 08:26 AM
It's funny how you are so quick to say the NBA is rigged when something bad happens to your team, but when it comes to refereeing being rigged, you say it's implausible. Priceless.

than I can rephrase....

The lottery is rigged. Until they do the drawing before the public, I will never believe otherwise.

SteBO
05-18-2011, 08:30 AM
than I can rephrase....

The lottery is rigged. Until they do the drawing before the public, I will never believe otherwise.

Doing it in public wouldn't be a bad idea if you ask me. It'd definitely erase the speculation that the draft lottery really is rigged for good, but I'm sure there's a disadvantage somewhere in doing so.

Eicholtz
05-18-2011, 08:32 AM
I love it!

Hawkeye15
05-18-2011, 08:44 AM
Doing it in public wouldn't be a bad idea if you ask me. It'd definitely erase the speculation that the draft lottery really is rigged for good, but I'm sure there's a disadvantage somewhere in doing so.

I will put my opinion in another way, and this isn't aimed at you SteBo, but a frustrated Wolves fan whose team has NEVER moved up in 15 tries, is getting sick of this.

Imagine if game 2 of the Bulls-Heat was behind closed doors tonight. Nobody could watch. But the NBA then presents the following:

Heat win 91-87. Trust us. It was fair.

As I said, until they do the lottery before the public, I don't believe for a second its legit. The Wolves in particular have been continually screwed to the statistical point that it has become almost impossible to believe. Now, I am fine with the pick position. This is regarded a 2 player draft, and I think the Wolves will try and trade the pick anyways, I just find it utterly ridiculous that the "storyline" team does indeed come out on top most times. Cleveland got its heart ripped out. Everyone felt sad for them. Well, here ya go, have the #1 pick, again.

You guys will have to pardon me for being a bit bitter, but lottery night is typically one of the worst nights as a Wolves fan. I just wish they would do the drawing before the public and put this to bed. But they won't.

NYKnickFanatic
05-18-2011, 08:54 AM
How weird is that the Thunder (4th best chance) didn't get to go #1 and draft Griffin in 2009?

How weird is it that the Pacers (11th best chance) didn't get to go #1 and draft Oden in 2007?

How weird is it that the Hawks (4th best chance) didn't get to go #1 and draft Howard in 2004?

Seriously, shut the **** up. These draft conspiracy theorists drive me insane. Including David "Somebody please come play with Kevin Love" Kahn.

Lmao. Someone is mad. :p

SteBO
05-18-2011, 08:54 AM
I will put my opinion in another way, and this isn't aimed at you SteBo, but a frustrated Wolves fan whose team has NEVER moved up in 15 tries, is getting sick of this.

Imagine if game 2 of the Bulls-Heat was behind closed doors tonight. Nobody could watch. But the NBA then presents the following:

Heat win 91-87. Trust us. It was fair.

As I said, until they do the lottery before the public, I don't believe for a second its legit. The Wolves in particular have been continually screwed to the statistical point that it has become almost impossible to believe. Now, I am fine with the pick position. This is regarded a 2 player draft, and I think the Wolves will try and trade the pick anyways, I just find it utterly ridiculous that the "storyline" team does indeed come out on top most times. Cleveland got its heart ripped out. Everyone felt sad for them. Well, here ya go, have the #1 pick, again.
You guys will have to pardon me for being a bit bitter, but lottery night is typically one of the worst nights as a Wolves fan. I just wish they would do the drawing before the public and put this to bed. But they won't.
Haha. Well welcome to the NBA. When they were drawing the numbers, I did have a feeling the Cavs would win it, because of what you said, the geat "story". The Wolves don't have that luxury, if that's what you wanna call it, and probably won't have it for a long, long time if this keeps up of course. Even with the best odds (25%) of drawing the #1 pick, the Wolves couldn't break through still, and that has to be dejecting. I felt that way too when the Bulls got it, and got Derrick Rose. We may have talent now, but imagining a Derrick Rose and Dwyane Wade backcourt still creeps through mind at times.

Hawkeye15
05-18-2011, 08:59 AM
Haha. Well welcome to the NBA. When they were drawing the numbers, I did have a feeling the Cavs would win it, because of what you said, the geat "story". The Wolves don't have that luxury, if that's what you wanna call it, and probably won't have it for a long, long time if this keeps up of course. Even with the best odds (25%) of drawing the #1 pick, the Wolves couldn't break through still, and that has to be dejecting. I felt that way too when the Bulls got it, and got Derrick Rose. We may have talent now, but imagining a Derrick Rose and Dwyane Wade backcourt still creeps through mind at times.

well, you just brought up why I don't get too worked up over the draft. Beasley was looked at as just as good of a prospect as Rose. The draft really is a crapshoot most of the time. And as I said, I think the Wolves try their best to trade the pick anyways, so I was actually happy with landing the #2 pick. I honestly thought we would fall to 3 with our historical luck.

You know whats funny, and doesn't make sense? The team with the worst record has something like a 54% chance of landing the #3-4 pick. How is that right?

C-ross12
05-18-2011, 09:00 AM
The NBA is running itself into the ground, but its not due to the Lottery system. The lottery is the last problem in the NBA that needs to be addressed. Could it be redone? Sure. But at this point that would be like fixing an ingrown toenail before fixing a ruptured achilles tendon. Just doesn't make sense.

SteBO
05-18-2011, 09:01 AM
Thank you. You and BHolly added some sense to this thread.

The NBA can leave you questioning sometimes, but the lottery is the last thing I'm worried about. There's a BS "feel good story" with every team, so you can't just select after hand and claim its rigged. And Hawkeye I can't believe you're part of this. Sad.
I think you should put yourself in a Wolves fans' shoes first. If you're 0-14 in this situation and can't catch a break you'd be feeling the same way. Especially when you factor in that the Wolves haven't been good for years now.

SteBO
05-18-2011, 09:05 AM
well, you just brought up why I don't get too worked up over the draft. Beasley was looked at as just as good of a prospect as Rose. The draft really is a crapshoot most of the time. And as I said, I think the Wolves try their best to trade the pick anyways, so I was actually happy with landing the #2 pick. I honestly thought we would fall to 3 with our historical luck.

You know whats funny, and doesn't make sense? The team with the worst record has something like a 54% chance of landing the #3-4 pick. How is that right?
#2 pick is good, I have no issues with it. I still stand by the fact that we didn't use Beasley the right way, and I contribute that mostly to Dwyane Wades' infatuation with Udonis Haslem. I got killed for saying this then, and I ended up getting proven right during free agency. Ah well, hopefully the Wolves get something good from it, whether they trade the pick or not.

TO to the CHI
05-18-2011, 09:21 AM
I will put my opinion in another way, and this isn't aimed at you SteBo, but a frustrated Wolves fan whose team has NEVER moved up in 15 tries, is getting sick of this.

Imagine if game 2 of the Bulls-Heat was behind closed doors tonight. Nobody could watch. But the NBA then presents the following:

Heat win 91-87. Trust us. It was fair.

As I said, until they do the lottery before the public, I don't believe for a second its legit. The Wolves in particular have been continually screwed to the statistical point that it has become almost impossible to believe. Now, I am fine with the pick position. This is regarded a 2 player draft, and I think the Wolves will try and trade the pick anyways, I just find it utterly ridiculous that the "storyline" team does indeed come out on top most times. Cleveland got its heart ripped out. Everyone felt sad for them. Well, here ya go, have the #1 pick, again.

You guys will have to pardon me for being a bit bitter, but lottery night is typically one of the worst nights as a Wolves fan. I just wish they would do the drawing before the public and put this to bed. But they won't.

How many times have the Wolves been badly affected by the lottery? Sure they have not moved up, but it's not like they have repeatedly had the worst record and moved down to 4th either?

Moreover, a quick review of the last 15 years of the Wolves franchise reflects that their issues are of their own making. They illegally signed Joe Smith (you read that right, Joe Smith) and then forfeited several first rounders during KG's prime. They used their 2003 first rounder (the only one they had in 5 years due to the penalty) on Ndudi Ebi (who clearly was not the immediate help that KG needed and deserved), and in recent years they have drafted and traded Roy, Lawson, Mayo, and Chalmers (with only the Mayo deal being a good one for the Wolves). I know that this is separate from your theory, but it seems to me that it is more likely that it is bitterness as a Wolves fan than anything else.

I am a Raps fan and they have been pushed down in the draft order numerous times and the one time that they won the draft lottery was in a year where high schoolers were first not allowed to declare, thus greatly reducing the talent pool. I don't view it as a conspiracy. I just think the NBA has too much to lose and unlike referees skewing games (which I don't think the league supports) which is a human element that can be covered up, the evidence of a rigged lottery would be unequivocal and would destroy the league.

Putting the lottery in front of the public would not resolve anything. People would simply come up with different theories (weighted balls, improprieties in the numbers assigned to the teams, etc.). And the comparison to Game 2 is not really on point either. First, I actually would believe it, because I don't think that the Bulls would stand idly by while the league screwed them. Second, a game is not strictly a matter of chance, so the statistical variance is much different than the draft lottery.

pebloemer
05-18-2011, 09:25 AM
From a member of the media who was in the room last night:


So, whatís it like in there?

Mind-numbingly boring for the most part but kind of cool.

Weíre shepherded into the room about 7 p.m., reps of the 14 teams, a handful of league officials, three very large security guards and five members of the media to act as witnesses, or hostages.

You walk in the boardroom and they want youíre blackberries or phones or whatever you have, as expected, although we could keep tape recorders if we wanted and could use laptops, as it turns out, because they had blocked any wireless access to the room.

But the speed with which it came together was stunning.

A dude from Ernst and Young walked everyone through the process, the balls were dropped one-by-one into the hopper (which looks like a toned-down version of any old lottery machine and was built specifically for the event) and then it started.

Three draws, each taking a minute and it was all over and done with by 7:23 p.m. if the chicken scratch in the notebook can be trusted.

Then? Then we stood around nibbling on cold cuts and cookies and drinking coffee and soda, chatting with the likes of Ernie Grunfeld and Billy McKinny, Marc Eversley and a handful of others.

Nice talks, very long wait while watching the whole process on TV like many of you were.

But you need to trust me on this: It so above-board and impossible to rig and witnessed by so many people with so much vested interest in the process that thereís no way it could be anything but legit.

Iím sure that wonít appease everyone but I really donít care

http://thestar.blogs.com/raptors/

Take it for what it's worth. I don't see anyone swaying opinions on this topic and I'm sure people will call this BS, but believe what you will.

Da Knicks
05-18-2011, 09:26 AM
For all you guys trying to use the Knicks to throw off the 'rigged' title the NBA got...remember that even if the Knicks suck...they STILL manage to gross a **** load of money.

:clap: we have a winner, imagine the lakers sucking for 5-8 years would it be the raiders all over again? The knicks faithful are the reason the nba kept them from winning for so many years. If you are still bringing in the people why would they worry for that franchise? Its a business at the end of the day...:o

Epicfailure
05-18-2011, 09:32 AM
I know right? Cleveland's never allowed to catch a break right? The Indians don't deserve to be good right now. The Cavs don't deserve the first pick, even though technically they didn't even get it with their own luck. They can thank the Clippers for their desire of Mo Williams and their 2.8 percent chance of landing the first pick.

But Cleveland is just a waste of space where no decent people live and they don't deserve for things to fall in place for a change? Right? RIGHT?

Hellcrooner
05-18-2011, 09:33 AM
thats what ahppens when you dont have a Free market system.

Mc Uncle Cola
05-18-2011, 09:39 AM
I agree same thing with the Nets last year..The lottery is a joke ..its just another way for the NBA to make money...what its something like only 4 times in the last 25 year that the team with the worst record actually got the number 1 spot?? lol please

CELTICS4LYFE
05-18-2011, 09:41 AM
If it was rigged I think the Kings would of won it.....they kept giving "that dude" (forgot his name, the mayor of sac) camera time!

xbrackattackx
05-18-2011, 09:43 AM
If you think the league is rigged then don't watch!

agreed.

WeBallin
05-18-2011, 09:52 AM
You mean the NBA wants the Cavs to put together a competitive team to maybe meet the Heat in the playoffs? Nah man, that's crazy.

Yup about as crazy as Charlie Sheen....LOL:clap:

ne3xchamps
05-18-2011, 09:59 AM
I agree same thing with the Nets last year..The lottery is a joke ..its just another way for the NBA to make money...what its something like only 4 times in the last 25 year that the team with the worst record actually got the number 1 spot?? lol please

agreed. The dumb *** lottery bull **** is a joke, and the NBA is turning into the biggest joke of the 4 major sports. Until stern steps down, or is ran out of office, nothing will change and the NBA will continue to go down the toilet.

GOOD JOB STERN!!:rolleyes:

KnicksR4Real
05-18-2011, 10:00 AM
Lol

pebloemer
05-18-2011, 10:03 AM
I agree same thing with the Nets last year..The lottery is a joke ..its just another way for the NBA to make money...what its something like only 4 times in the last 25 year that the team with the worst record actually got the number 1 spot?? lol please

Yes, with 25% odds of getting the pick, the last place team has gotten #1 16% of the time. With such a small sample size of 25, that's really not very far off.

Law of averages would suggest that the last place team gets the No.1 pick 1 in every 4 times, but in actuality it has been pretty much 1 in every 6 times. Again, over 25 times it not hard to believe.

ne3xchamps
05-18-2011, 10:05 AM
i dont understand the pity for the cavs. it's their fault they suck but they get rewarded with the top pick???

because of the whole lebron fiasco, try to keep up.

TO to the CHI
05-18-2011, 10:05 AM
I think you should put yourself in a Wolves fans' shoes first. If you're 0-14 in this situation and can't catch a break you'd be feeling the same way. Especially when you factor in that the Wolves haven't been good for years now.

The 0-14 thing is so misleading it is ridiculous. It is not like they were the favorites in 14 years and got screwed. Nearly every year they have been within 1 slot of where they should have been and I think this is the only year they had the best odds of getting the first pick (still only 25%).

Moreover, as detailed in my other post in this thread, the Wolves' problems, particularly relating to the draft are entirely of their own making. Period. Sour grapes are sour grapes.

SteBO
05-18-2011, 10:09 AM
The 0-14 thing is so misleading it is ridiculous. It is not like they were the favorites in 14 years and got screwed. Nearly every year they have been within 1 slot of where they should have been and I think this is the only year they had the best odds of getting the first pick (still only 25%).

Moreover, as detailed in my other post in this thread, the Wolves' problems, particularly relating to the draft are entirely of their own making. Period. Sour grapes are sour grapes.

I guess that's true. 25% isn't great odds to begin with if you really think about it. And true, there have also been worse teams than the Wolves that finished ahead of them. But what seems to be left out in all of this, is the idea of tanking a season, which was brought up some time ago. I forgot if the NBA did anything about that.

NYK|NYY
05-18-2011, 10:13 AM
I know right? Cleveland's never allowed to catch a break right? The Indians don't deserve to be good right now. The Cavs don't deserve the first pick, even though technically they didn't even get it with their own luck. They can thank the Clippers for their desire of Mo Williams and their 2.8 percent chance of landing the first pick.

But Cleveland is just a waste of space where no decent people live and they don't deserve for things to fall in place for a change? Right? RIGHT?

I would think most fans, maybe out of the lottery, are happy CLE won, but doesn't keep us from wondering if it is rigged. I can't think of any valid reason why the actual lottery isn't televised.

Muttman73
05-18-2011, 10:15 AM
Oh well, go Cavs...still gonna suck next year, but it's a start

ne3xchamps
05-18-2011, 10:17 AM
I would think most fans, maybe out of the lottery, are happy CLE won, but doesn't keep us from wondering if it is rigged. I can't think of any valid reason why the actual lottery isn't televised.

Bingo! :clap:

McJoe
05-18-2011, 10:18 AM
Because Miracles don't happen every year?

Knicks got the first pick in 85
Raptors got the first pick in 06 after getting a new GM in the height of promoting basketball outside the US.
Cavaliers get the first pick in '11 after losing LeBron to the whole TV thing.

I'm sure I missed a couple. And I'm not saying anything that you guys don't all know. Knicks had the 3rd best chance, Raps had the 5th best chance, and this year the pick that the Cavs got the first pick with had the 7th best chance.

TO to the CHI
05-18-2011, 10:18 AM
I guess that's true. 25% isn't great odds to begin with if you really think about it. And true, there have also been worse teams than the Wolves that finished ahead of them. But what seems to be left out in all of this, is the idea of tanking a season, which was brought up some time ago. I forgot if the NBA did anything about that.

Tanking a season just doesn't have the same benefit in the NBA as it does in some of the other sports (really only football, somewhat in hockey, and in baseball where a truly special prospect comes around). The Wolves knew the risks and the situation and still sucked last year. I don't think it could be described as tanking. Frankly, the response of Kahn and of the Wolves fans who are complaining smacks of immaturity and an inability to appreciate context. When you consider that (once again), this team has a horrific draft record to begin with, has traded away valuable top picks, and cheated which cost it several top picks, they just aren't all that sympathetic.

WSU Tony
05-18-2011, 10:24 AM
He's absolutely right....

Lebron to hometown
Rose to hometown

Large markets or "expanding" markets (toronto) have won the draft. Now, to save the fanbase in cleveland, they have two top four picks.

You guys have to be morons not seeing the pattern.

TragicallyHip
05-18-2011, 10:24 AM
Of course it's rigged. If you can determine game outcomes, rigging a lottery that no one can watch is child's play.

PHX2daDEATH
05-18-2011, 10:25 AM
they've been doing it since Ewing, Shaq and Webber in orlando, Duncan in San Antonio, L.James in Cleveland, D. Rose with the Bulls, ive probably left out a few but you can see..it's their league, they do what they want..

ccugrad1
05-18-2011, 10:26 AM
He's absolutely right....

Lebron to hometown
Rose to hometown

Large markets or "expanding" markets (toronto) have won the draft. Now, to save the fanbase in cleveland, they have two top four picks.

You guys have to be morons not seeing the pattern.

I agree with you. I don't think it happens EVERY year, but I do think it is suspicious like in instances where Derrick Rose enters the NBA Draft (from Chicago) and the Bulls are in the lottery with a 1.7% chance of winning and they somehow get the #1 pick?

PHX2daDEATH
05-18-2011, 10:31 AM
you know the next commissioner needs to get rid of the this, screw tanking, i think it was obvious in Cleveland the year before they drafted LBJ but the league needs to be aware of this in-games and start suspending players or contracting teams, yeah Kahn you want the #1 pick so bad, keep losing.. I feel Irving is the best fit for the team, he can get rid of Rubio and do whatever with Flynn, I say Cleveland goes for Williams, it makes sense for them.

Bigbadmoffo
05-18-2011, 10:35 AM
If you think the league is rigged then don't watch!

Good point but isn't that why where about to have a lock out?? Because ppl are getting sick of the nba and there drama. Telling ppl mot to watch will only work for so long and then the nba will turn into the wnba.

jockrider
05-18-2011, 10:44 AM
because of the whole lebron fiasco, try to keep up.

damon stoudemire,tmac,vince carter,chris bosh. do people feel sorry for us? i hope the cavs draft a bust!

HOZ THE KNICK
05-18-2011, 11:10 AM
kahn speaks the truth..

KnicksorBust
05-18-2011, 11:21 AM
I would have loved to see Kahn draft another PG. That guy is such a dope. No matter what team wins you could make it into a great storyline.

NYK|NYY
05-18-2011, 11:25 AM
I would have loved to see Kahn draft another PG. That guy is such a dope. No matter what team wins you could make it into a great storyline.

Eh, some of these lottery outcomes have been very suspicious to say the least. By the way, I am ALL for CLE winning the lottery even if it was rigged. I think there should just be a lottery for the last 3 teams it would make rigging it much more believable! : ).

heyman321
05-18-2011, 11:26 AM
As BS would say... KAAAAAAAAAAHNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Savage Sunday
05-18-2011, 11:32 AM
I would have loved to see Kahn draft another PG. That guy is such a dope. No matter what team wins you could make it into a great storyline.

Headline: T'Wolves win the lottery

Who cares?

Headline: We'll Be Back! Cleveland beats the odds and wins Lottery

Cleveland is a feel good story type of thing of them rebuilding post-LeBron.


Eh, some of these lottery outcomes have been very suspicious to say the least. By the way, I am ALL for CLE winning the lottery even if it was rigged. I think there should just be a lottery for the last 3 teams it would make rigging it much more believable! : ).

Exactly.

Chicago beats ridiculous odds and lands hometown kid Derrick Rose
Portland beats major odds to add Oden to go with Roy/Aldridge, Dynasty?
Washington beats major odds to add John Wall after owner dies & Gilbert gets banned

Cleveland joins the list.

yanks19791024
05-18-2011, 11:38 AM
This guy should buy the book how to GM for dummies

godolphins
05-18-2011, 11:43 AM
Why is their a lottery on the first place? I heard that the Nba adapt it from the NHL which doesn't make any sense at all since no one watch hockey in America so why the heck are you following their draft format? If anything the NBA should follow the NFL draft format since the its the most successful sports in America. With the NBA following the NHL its like the blind leading the blind, who cares if the teams are tanking to get a higher pick :shrug: Just go with the NFL format instead of this rigged stuff if you really want to stop all the conspiracy, but Stern loves to be in control so I don't expect him do change a thing until then I'm going to keep saying its fixed.




The New York Knicks were the first winner of the lottery in 1985. They selected Georgetown University standout Patrick Ewing with their first overall pick. However, speculation arose that the NBA had rigged the lottery so that the Knicks would be assured to get the first pick
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Draft_Lottery

Master Mind
05-18-2011, 11:48 AM
Headline: T'Wolves win the lottery

Who cares?

Headline: We'll Be Back! Cleveland beats the odds and wins Lottery

Cleveland is a feel good story type of thing of them rebuilding post-LeBron.



Exactly.

Chicago beats ridiculous odds and lands hometown kid Derrick Rose
Portland beats major odds to add Oden to go with Roy/Aldridge, Dynasty?
Washington beats major odds to add John Wall after owner dies & Gilbert gets banned

Cleveland joins the list.

That guy you quoted in your sig parents have to be related, that's the only way I can justify his inept judgement... :punish for that statement...

AIsixersFK
05-18-2011, 11:52 AM
So Let me get this straight......The Clippers traded baron davis and the number one overall pick for Mo Williams and Jamario Moon? lul

And in regards to the lottery....I want to be able to watch the lottery. Every single ball or whatever they use. Until then I think it's rigged. If the worst team has a 1/4 chance of winning the lottery how come it NEVER happens? Why does a team with a 2% chance win it every time?

TO to the CHI
05-18-2011, 11:59 AM
Why is their a lottery on the first place? I heard that the Nba adapt it from the NHL which doesn't make any sense at all since no one watch hockey in America so why the heck are you following their draft format? If anything the NBA should follow the NFL draft format since the its the most successful sports in America. With the NBA following the NHL its like the blind leading the blind, who cares if the teams are tanking to get a higher pick :shrug: Just go with the NFL format instead of this rigged stuff if you really want to stop all the conspiracy, but Stern loves to be in control so I don't expect him do change a thing until then I'm going to keep saying its fixed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Draft_Lottery

I don't know where you are getting your facts from, but the NBA lottery was in place well before the NHL lottery (which is a recent development). Thus, all your pithy comments about the blind leading the blind completely miss the mark. There is very little, if anything, on which the NBA has followed the NHL.

As for your contention that it is fixed, as has been stated numerous times, the math doesn't require a finding that it is fixed based on this sample size. However, you are entitled to your opinion.

And the reason that the lottery was implemented was to avoid tanking and the harm that it causes to fans who have to watch a team that is essentially trying to lose..... which sometimes does happen in the NFL. You can debate the merits of the approach, but that is the reasoning.

Hitman21
05-18-2011, 11:59 AM
[QUOTE=godolphins;17938903]Why is their a lottery on the first place? I heard that the Nba adapt it from the NHL which doesn't make any sense at all since no one watch hockey in America so why the heck are you following their draft format?
QUOTE]

Just because they dont watch NHL where you are from doesnt mean that no one in america watches hockey. There is actually a huge hockey fan base in america.

godolphins
05-18-2011, 12:00 PM
So Let me get this straight......The Clippers traded baron davis and the number one overall pick for Mo Williams and Jamario Moon? lul

And in regards to the lottery....I want to be able to watch the lottery. Every single ball or whatever they use. Until then I think it's rigged. If the worst team has a 1/4 chance of winning the lottery how come it NEVER happens? Why does a team with a 2% chance win it every time?
This is the first time that I watch the NBA lottery and its just ridiculous, they didn't even show the balls being selected(lotto style) It makes you think is there even a lottery :pity: If so why can't they show the whole selections instead of announcing the teams through an envelope.

CeeDub15
05-18-2011, 12:04 PM
Didnt read through the whole thread because im assuming ppl are bashing Kahn. But if you disagree with this comment, your crazy lol. He is just stating the obvious. Not sure if i would have done this when you get teh #2 in a 2 player draft pretty much, but im not gonna get mad at him for sayin this.

godolphins
05-18-2011, 12:04 PM
I don't know where you are getting your facts from, but the NBA lottery was in place well before the NHL lottery (which is a recent development). Thus, all your pithy comments about the blind leading the blind completely miss the mark. There is very little, if anything, on which the NBA has followed the NHL.

As for your contention that it is fixed, as has been stated numerous times, the math doesn't require a finding that it is fixed based on this sample size. However, you are entitled to your opinion.

And the reason that the lottery was implemented was to avoid tanking and the harm that it causes to fans who have to watch a team that is essentially trying to lose..... which sometimes does happen in the NFL. You can debate the merits of the approach, but that is the reasoning.
Well this means the NHL got it from the NBA then....

Here's my question: Is there even a real lotto drawing?
And who cares if teams are tanking the season :shrug: The NFL is a successful business and they don't have a lottery system why can't the NBA follow their format instead of this crap.

CeeDub15
05-18-2011, 12:05 PM
This guy should buy the book how to GM for dummies

lol, yeah man. The lottery isnt rigged what so ever...right?

CeeDub15
05-18-2011, 12:08 PM
I would have loved to see Kahn draft another PG. That guy is such a dope. No matter what team wins you could make it into a great storyline.

Kahn i agree has said some stupid things with the Wolves. Im not gonna argue that, but this comment shouldnt warrant bashing the guy. And he is a pretty good gm, he is great when it comes to trading and bringing in pieces, his 2 things that imo he hasnt done right since getting here, is drafting (last year he had a solid draft, Wes i think will be a good player), and hiring Rambis which from what ive heard we might buy him out, praying to get Hawks old coach...Mike Woodson i believe.

godolphins
05-18-2011, 12:09 PM
let's see the actual balls being drawn

Tarheels23
05-18-2011, 12:09 PM
The only way the TWolves will get the #1 pick is if the top prospect in the draft is from Minnesota

Arch Stanton
05-18-2011, 12:16 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if there was lottery tampering in the league but until I actually hear about it I'm just going to assume everything is legit. I feel like too many people have "BIG MOUTHS." And if lottery tampering existed we would've heard about it already. Call me Naive...

Max Power
05-18-2011, 12:20 PM
He's saying Cleveland won because they sent a 14 year old and Wash won because they sent Polan's widow? Those are feel good stories?

Those are stories forgotten 5 minutes after the lottery show.

Plus, the Wolves sent McHale for years and never won it. Wouldn't it have been a feel good story if the tall, borderline ******** guy won, too?

Lindystud36
05-18-2011, 12:22 PM
Wolves Need to Just Take Kanter with their first pick and there are no problems
A Legit Center to pair with Rubio coming over this year, Love and B-Easy, plus Johnson
That's a team right there

If the Cav's are smart they draft Kanter then Knight

Shareeb_omac2
05-18-2011, 12:26 PM
I think people are missing the point...

It's a feel good story for the Cavs due to the fact that Lebron left them with nothing. Everyone and their mother had some form of sympathy for the Cavs. Dan sent his kid with disabilities out their so when the first pick fell their way, it looked like the best day of his sons life.

D1JM
05-18-2011, 12:32 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if there was lottery tampering in the league but until I actually hear about it I'm just going to assume everything is legit. I feel like too many people have "BIG MOUTHS." And if lottery tampering existed we would've heard about it already. Call me Naive...

You're not naive. Too many interest there to let tampering happen.

ne3xchamps
05-18-2011, 12:37 PM
The only way the TWolves will get the #1 pick is if the top prospect in the draft is from Minnesota

this.

SMH!
05-18-2011, 12:37 PM
they still would not draft erving with the no 1 pick..no biggie

Yea i dont think they will draft Erving either, erving's been retired for a while, they might draft Irving though.

ne3xchamps
05-18-2011, 12:38 PM
let's see the actual balls being drawn

and this.

SMH!
05-18-2011, 12:39 PM
He's saying Cleveland won because they sent a 14 year old and Wash won because they sent Polan's widow? Those are feel good stories?

Those are stories forgotten 5 minutes after the lottery show.

Plus, the Wolves sent McHale for years and never won it. Wouldn't it have been a feel good story if the tall, borderline ******** guy won, too?

You must have short memory loss if you forget 5 mins after the show. I think ill remember these for a while.

redsox0717
05-18-2011, 12:40 PM
Kaaaaaaaaaahn!!!!

jneises21
05-18-2011, 12:43 PM
The bulls had like a 1.7% chance of getting Rose in '08 :shrug:

StriveGreatness
05-18-2011, 12:52 PM
Well this means the NHL got it from the NBA then....
Here's my question: Is there even a real lotto drawing?
And who cares if teams are tanking the season :shrug: The NFL is a successful business and they don't have a lottery system why can't the NBA follow their format instead of this crap.

Well, David Stern did teach Gary Bettman on how to run a league.

hyb152
05-18-2011, 12:52 PM
x2

The NBA loves feel good stories

Agreed. It's rigged.

THE MTL
05-18-2011, 12:58 PM
He can be right. The Cavs go from losing the biggest star in the league since Kobe and Jordan. The BEST player in the NBA! And now, they have #1 pick and had the little 14-year old with his condition win the lottery.

I mean it seems like something out of a story book.

Infamous916
05-18-2011, 12:59 PM
let's see the actual balls being drawn

Exactly this would end all the speculation if the draft lottery is rigged, idc why its such a big deal?

We can have 50 photographers on the court & athletes almost hurting themselves trying to hurdle camera guys, while going after loose balls. Yet we cant have 1 ****ing camera when the balls drop?

Savage Sunday
05-18-2011, 01:11 PM
let's see the actual balls being drawn

No homo, but I would much rather see it done this way.

AIsixersFK
05-18-2011, 01:56 PM
No homo, but I would much rather see it done this way.

get ur mind outta the gutter

Chronz
05-18-2011, 02:10 PM
This is why Kahn is my least fav GM

Hawkeye15
05-18-2011, 02:15 PM
This is why Kahn is my least fav GM

Because he said something true? Or because he said anything at all?

Dude, you have hated him since he remarked McGrady and his huge deal (I understand it was insured), held no appeal for the Wolves. Get over it man, cmon

Hawkeye15
05-18-2011, 02:33 PM
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Post-NBA-Draft-Lottery-Video-Reactions-Nick-Gilbert-Irving-Kahnetc-3705

By the way, here is the video of it. You can tell by Kahn's mannerisms he is simply joking. But the media, as usual in this country, blows everything out of context.

mzgrizz
05-18-2011, 02:37 PM
Ya reckon???

CeeDub15
05-18-2011, 02:37 PM
I dont care what ppl think of Kahn to be honest, he is a good gm and has gave this team hope. I just dont get why ppl are hating on the guy for this, i mean we all know its rigged, he is just starting the obvious.

mzgrizz
05-18-2011, 02:40 PM
Obvious to me. Maybe I can give a little on the referreeing but lottery is rig city

Lake_Show2416
05-18-2011, 03:00 PM
i agree with him actually that some lotteries have been rigged

most recent seemed like when the Bulls won Rose, no fault to the team but it seemed a bit shady, 1.7% chance?? a kid from Chicago....

AddiX
05-18-2011, 03:13 PM
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Post-NBA-Draft-Lottery-Video-Reactions-Nick-Gilbert-Irving-Kahnetc-3705

By the way, here is the video of it. You can tell by Kahn's mannerisms he is simply joking. But the media, as usual in this country, blows everything out of context.

I think he was half joking, you could tell he was being honest about what he thought and he even stressed the word habit to leave the statement open to judgement.

And I actually agree with him on this. I didn't watch the lottery but SMH at a 14 year old kid being there.

Hawkeye15
05-18-2011, 03:14 PM
i agree with him actually that some lotteries have been rigged

most recent seemed like when the Bulls won Rose, no fault to the team but it seemed a bit shady, 1.7% chance?? a kid from Chicago....

what about the first lottery? A struggling Knicks franchise, a certain big man from Georgetown the consensus #1 pick. There have been many suspect lotteries. Fact is, all they have to do is open it to the public, and most of us will shut up.


But back to the subject, as you see by the video I posted, Kahn was simply joking around, while tip toeing the line of truth and humor.

Chronz
05-18-2011, 03:31 PM
Because he said something true?
What was true?


Dude, you have hated him since he remarked McGrady and his huge deal (I understand it was insured), held no appeal for the Wolves. Get over it man, cmon

I disliked him long before that, but yea that Mac stance was ridiculous. Really no appeal for INSTANT savings, not only was it negligent of him to take that stance but to have the audacity that it would require even more on the part of Morey to get him to save $ cemented his incompetence.

Lake_Show2416
05-18-2011, 03:44 PM
what about the first lottery? A struggling Knicks franchise, a certain big man from Georgetown the consensus #1 pick. There have been many suspect lotteries. Fact is, all they have to do is open it to the public, and most of us will shut up.


But back to the subject, as you see by the video I posted, Kahn was simply joking around, while tip toeing the line of truth and humor.

ya thats cuz he doesnt wanna get fined under david stern's dictatorship, its stupid how obvious they make it but luckily for the Wolves they make Kahn's job a lot easier by giving him the #2 pick, they should have an executive from every team witness the lottery draw

Afridi786
05-18-2011, 03:45 PM
He's just upset that he can't draft another point guard. They have people watching when the actual lottery takes place, there is no way the NBA can fix it...sour grapes.

CeeDub15
05-18-2011, 03:54 PM
He's upset because we cant draft another PG? Please explain, we drafted 2 Pg's that year, Ty Lawson trade was set up before we picked him. We took Rubio (who we knew wasnt coming over right away, wouldve gotten drafted higher if he would have), and Flynn for the team right now and we would end up trading him once Rubio came or gave him the backup position.

gaughan333
05-18-2011, 04:12 PM
i agree with him actually that some lotteries have been rigged

most recent seemed like when the Bulls won Rose, no fault to the team but it seemed a bit shady, 1.7% chance?? a kid from Chicago....

I think even a large amount of bulls fans will admit this was rigged. When we won this lottery that was the first thing i said.

Punk
05-18-2011, 05:42 PM
I gotta agree but it doesn't happen too often.

2007 - Greg Oden: Revived the Blazers despite his injuries.

2008 - Derrick Rose: Reviving the Bulls franchise.

2009 - Blake Griffin: After a terrible season, reviving the Clippers franchise.

2010 - John Wall: After the Gilbert Arenas situation and losing season.

2011 - Irving/Williams: After LeBron leaving and a terrible season.

Nate David+ Co.
05-18-2011, 05:48 PM
Wordd^

Hawkeye15
05-18-2011, 05:49 PM
What was true?


I disliked him long before that, but yea that Mac stance was ridiculous. Really no appeal for INSTANT savings, not only was it negligent of him to take that stance but to have the audacity that it would require even more on the part of Morey to get him to save $ cemented his incompetence.

you don't think the lottery being done behind closed doors, and some of the teams that win it are a bit fishy? The first lottery conducted started the process I think.

And you are a stats guy. The probability that the Wolves have never landed the #1, and have moved down or stayed with 15 chances, is beyond low, and very suspect.

And again, I understand why you don't like him, though he was barely employed with the Wolves by the time the TMac thing came along. Look at what he has done to their payroll dude. There isn't a contract on the books that can't be flipped at any time. How is that incompetent?

I get it. You don't like him. But I figured you were beyond grudges.

Sportfan
05-18-2011, 06:07 PM
Of course it is! Not to hate but c'mon how weird is it that the Cavs and Bulls got the number #1 pick when there was a home town prospect projected to go 1st overall.

But I can be wrong 
Then why didn't the Thunder get Blake?

TO to the CHI
05-18-2011, 06:10 PM
you don't think the lottery being done behind closed doors, and some of the teams that win it are a bit fishy? The first lottery conducted started the process I think.

And you are a stats guy. The probability that the Wolves have never landed the #1, and have moved down or stayed with 15 chances, is beyond low, and very suspect.

And again, I understand why you don't like him, though he was barely employed with the Wolves by the time the TMac thing came along. Look at what he has done to their payroll dude. There isn't a contract on the books that can't be flipped at any time. How is that incompetent?

I get it. You don't like him. But I figured you were beyond grudges.

So is your position that the lottery is rigged in general? Is rigged only as to who gets the first pick? Is rigged to favor good storylines? Is rigged to favor big cities? Or is rigged against the Wolves? It seems like you are only harping on the latter, which is a pretty ludicrous theory. Moreover, the stats on this small of a sample size reflect that what has happened to Minnesota is really not all that incredible. People here are making it out to be like getting struck by lightning, but that just isn't the case. As an aside, this is also a very different type of stats than player stats, as this pertains to probability not performance.

Re: Kahn, having a bunch of tradable contracts, but not having all that many building blocks is not much of an accomplishment. It's not like he has made dozens of brilliant cap savvy moves. He jettisoned Jefferson primarily. Other than that, he has made a slew of questionable draft picks, made some interesting statements, and brought in a bunch of young talent much of which was not exactly sought after by other teams. I think the affection for Kahn is really just a reflection on how bad McHale was.

TO to the CHI
05-18-2011, 06:11 PM
Then why didn't the Thunder get Blake?

Stop that! There's no need for logical consistency when suggesting a conspiracy theory.

Chronz
05-18-2011, 06:16 PM
you don't think the lottery being done behind closed doors, and some of the teams that win it are a bit fishy? The first lottery conducted started the process I think.

And you are a stats guy. The probability that the Wolves have never landed the #1, and have moved down or stayed with 15 chances, is beyond low, and very suspect.


I dont think this lottery was rigged just because nobody here knows what gos on within the process but Id be willing to hear a reputable source on the matter. Dont know what you mean by the first lottery starting the process. If its the current system I dont know when it was established but the random card drawing (Ewing Draft) was televised. There is some debate to that being rigged, proponents argue that the card was bent others say other cards were bent as they flew around. In either event if the league wanted to rig the odds, why would they choose to have them win with the Clippers pick? Sounds idiotic, too idiotic.

Im into stats but I dont understand them outside basketball, Ive seen that article about the odds but I didnt come away convinced partly because Im still trying to wrap my head around it. Worth looking into, what year do you feel they were robbed? How could you pinpoint that down mathematically, you can try to narrow it down to the past few years and pull anything out of it but whos to say when that sample size of however many drawings we've had becomes credible?


And again, I understand why you don't like him, though he was barely employed with the Wolves by the time the TMac thing came along. Look at what he has done to their payroll dude. There isn't a contract on the books that can't be flipped at any time. How is that incompetent?

I get it. You don't like him. But I figured you were beyond grudges.
You can narrow down all the reasons I dislike him due to a grudge about Tmac/Morey/Rox if you wish, but all this ignores the blatant variety of the actions Ive called him out for. This gos so far beyond any 1 thing hes done, you know your a ****** GM when the best case the teams fanbase can make is that hes capitalized on no brainer decisions in a clear effort to cut pay roll.

Congrats on not being pressured to win and having the go ahead to put out a poor product that you could pass along as "developmental". That works ok if the GM is also a rock solid talent evaluator/decision maker with finding diamonds in the rough via trade/draft. But the vast majority of his moves have been disasters thus far, even if his one ace in the hole works out (Rubio) hes done a bad job of providing a system (the triangle... for Rubio... are you ****ing ******** me) and a talent pool for said player to thrive.

Quite frankly his best move has been the Beasley trade and that was a result of the combination of Miami needing to clear out caps space and alot of teams refusing to help them. Hes easily among the worst, I have no idea where they rank because I dont care enough to figure it out but Ill admit hes not as bad as Coangelo because his rep doesnt proceed him, Im pretty sure everyone knows hes a tool.

Heres one more thing to consider, your window for providing support for Love will close if you dont capitalize on his low monetary worth now and surround him with a talented core that can both grow with him, but surround him with enough vets to teach him how to win. Ive seen first hand what happens when you wait too long with Brand, as great as he was and as much as I applaud our team for finally retaining our best players, the team didnt make the moves they shouldve to keep the team competitive. Not familiar with the KG situation but I think you may have experienced a similar situation. Im just thankful we have Blake an established core, solid vets, a near pristine financial situation, and that coveted window before we have to pay Blake big money.

The difference in our two teams is that once landing our star PF, we knew what we had from day 1 and made the moves to build around him. When Donald Sterling is lapping you in the rebuilding process, your a ****** gm PERIOD. Time changes everything but lets not act as if Kahn has been anything resembling competent.

JWO35
05-18-2011, 06:16 PM
It's rigged....if it wasn't why couldn't they just do it live on national television?

bholly
05-18-2011, 07:02 PM
ya thats cuz he doesnt wanna get fined under david stern's dictatorship, its stupid how obvious they make it but luckily for the Wolves they make Kahn's job a lot easier by giving him the #2 pick, they should have an executive from every team witness the lottery draw

Seriously? They do. Do you even read the other posts? It gets mentioned like every page.


And you are a stats guy. The probability that the Wolves have never landed the #1, and have moved down or stayed with 15 chances, is beyond low, and very suspect.

I'm assuming from this that you didn't read my other post. I'm a stats guy (in a non-basketball sense). I understand the stats. Firstly, they haven't 'moved down or stayed' in every lottery, and the chance of them going 0-15 in #1s was about 13.5%, which isn't close to 'beyond low'. There isn't a statistical test in the world that would consider that a significant result, let alone 'very suspect'.