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THE_G.O.A.T.
05-17-2011, 09:40 AM
It's time to think of Derrick Rose as the best in the league, not just the Most Valuable Player.

There's a difference, you know. The MVP is an award for what's been done. As I define it, it's the player who's the most responsible for making his team elite during the regular season. That's a title bestowed upon someone based on what he's accomplished, rather than what you believe he can do. The best player is about what's next. The simplest way to define best player is to ask yourself whom you'd pick first if you needed to win a playoff game. And at the moment, nobody has won more games in these playoffs than Rose and the Chicago Bulls.

Now his latest victory wasn't a case of him deserving a "W" next to his name like a starting pitcher. He wasn't as singularly responsible for this victory as he was in the first playoff game against the Pacers, when Rose scored seven points and set up Kyle Korver's go-ahead 3 in the final two minutes, or his 44-point outburst in the third game of the Hawks series.

The 103-82 victory in Game 1 was about the Bulls' superior effort and deeper bench, a testament to Tom Thibodeau's defensive-oriented coaching style. But someone needs to get buckets for you, and Rose had 10 of his team's 38 field goals and assisted on six more.

Rose's name did not need to be included in the headline of this one. Nor did he need to lead the highlights. He didn't produce a singular defining moment. For that you could go with Taj Gibson's dunk over Dwyane Wade, which wasn't just in Wade's face it was on Wade's entire body. Or you could choose the symbolism of Gibson's put-back slam in the final minute, the 19th offensive rebound and the 31st second-chance point, the capper to two critical statistical categories in which the Bulls dominated.

If there was a Derrick Rose moment, it didn't consist of one of his acrobatic layups. He was trying for one, but he was rudely interrupted by Miami's Jamaal Magloire, who hit Rose with what I'd call a modified Andrew Bynum. It was a hard shot, but on the side of "playoff hard foul" instead of "dirty play." As Rose waited to shoot his free throws, he smiled, as if he enjoyed the contact.

"That's my whole life, people have been doing that," Rose said.

It's the price he's willing to pay to get to the hoop. It's representative of the toughness his Bulls displayed, something the Heat will have to find a way to match if they want to avoid falling behind 2-0 in the Eastern Conference finals.

Rose is similarly undaunted by the challenge before him, which happens to be the most important role of any Bull. He has to be better than either Wade or LeBron James. The Bulls can't afford to have those two be the best players on the court. When the two best players are wearing the same jersey, that team tends to win (see Kevin Durant's and Russell Westbrook's performances in the Thunder's Game 7 win over the Grizzlies).

On Sunday, Rose was better than both James and Wade. Rose scored 28 points, James and Wade combined for 33. For Rose to essentially negate Miami's top two players is a huge victory for the Bulls. And yet still we hesitate to proclaim him the best.

Even Rod Strickland, who has a vested interest in having Rose be No. 1 after coaching him for a year at Memphis, hesitates to use that label.

"Umm, he's close, if he's not," said Strickland, who watched the game from Row 3 at the United Center. "Obviously you had three of the, probably, top five out there. I mean, he's up there. I don't know if I want to crown anybody the best player in the league, but he's definitely an MVP and he's definitely one of the best."

Strickland deserves some credit for Rose getting so good so fast. As an assistant on John Calipari's point-guard-factory staff, Strickland did his best to pass along the knowledge he accumulated during 17 seasons of playing the position in the NBA.

"The whole thing with him is just be aggressive," Strickland said. "He was such a cool, laid-back kid and just wanted to win. He could have numbers like eight points and eight assists and be fine. I just wanted him to be aggressive and just be that killer and just go at guys. As the season progressed, that's what he did."

Game 1 was about the next phase of Rose's evolution, the development of his jump shot. He made only 16 3-point shots in each of his first two NBA seasons, then made 128 of them this year. Getting to the basket simply wasn't an option for him in Game 1. The Heat had their big men jump on him off screens while their guards went underneath and another help defender came over if necessary. As a result, only one of Rose's 10 baskets came in the lane. He made jumper after jumper, including three 3-pointers, with a stroke that looked smooth and confident from the outset.

Rose said this began in Atlanta, when he made a jumper in the third quarter of the closeout Game 6 and it felt like his rhythm was back. It carried into this series opener at the United Center.

"This is my building," Rose said.

At first it sounded like the boldest proclamation he's made yet, as if he were saying he'd assumed the title and deed from Michael Jordan. Then he went on to explain how he was familiar with the lighting in the arena and the dead spots on the court and it was clear he merely meant this is a place where he feels comfortable.

Rose spoke up in the locker room at halftime, getting on the team for its nine first-half turnovers, including four from him. Then he led by example in the second half by playing 19 minutes without a turnover.

Like the aggressiveness Strickland kept seeking from him and like his jump shot, being vocal is something else Rose has had to learn in order to become the star he wants to be.

"Just by nature I'm quiet, but being in this position, being the point guard, being one of the leaders on this team, you have to talk a bit more," Rose said.

His teammates buy whatever he's saying because he is "the most humble superstar in the NBA," according to Joakim Noah.

"Our leader is a humble guy who doesn't go into a game with any mindset of 'I'm going to score this many points,'" Noah said. "Just making the right play at the right time. It's all about winning. I feel very lucky to play with somebody like that."

It is all about winning, which is why the numbers never do Rose justice. Rose ranked ninth in John Hollinger's player efficiency rating this season. There's a ranking on 82games.com that has him 17th. Do you really think the Bulls would rather have any of the players ranked ahead of him for the rest of these playoffs?

Would you? That's the question that has to be asked. It's one that Rose is making easier and easier to answer.



Is he better than LeBron yet?

Tarheels23
05-17-2011, 09:43 AM
Yeah...... no

ne3xchamps
05-17-2011, 09:47 AM
top 5 in the league, yes. THE BEST in the league.. uummmm no.

mikealike305
05-17-2011, 09:47 AM
na

jockrider
05-17-2011, 09:48 AM
let him become the best player at his position first.

OnWisconsin2007
05-17-2011, 09:49 AM
There's no way Derrick Rose is better than LeBron. Heat still win the series.

Hellcrooner
05-17-2011, 09:49 AM
really?

how bout waiting to see if bulls defeat lebron and then durant later.???

I mean i hope they do cause Bulls is the only team that is left that does not make me want to cut my veins.

but still, lets wait for the fat lady to sign first.

Gators123
05-17-2011, 09:51 AM
Is he better than LeBron yet?

Uh, no.

ChicagoRox
05-17-2011, 09:52 AM
Top 5. Yeah. the best .... unfortunately not. But it's okay, cause all he wants to do is weeeinnn!

macc
05-17-2011, 09:58 AM
Rose isn't even top 5. People are living in the moment.

1.Lebron
2.Howard
3.Wade
4.Kobe.
5.Paul
Durrant
Dirk
Melo
Williams

Rose coule be interchangable with Melo and Williams.

Stop living in the moment. Rose is arguablly top 10, not top 5.

Tarheels23
05-17-2011, 09:58 AM
People really think he is top 5? He isnt even top 2 in his position!

Geargo Wallace
05-17-2011, 10:00 AM
Nope. I was more impressed with the rest of the Bulls on Sunday night's game anyways.

Greet
05-17-2011, 10:00 AM
top 5 in the league, yes. THE BEST in the league.. uummmm no.

Not even top 5. He didn't even play all that great in game 1.

DaBUU
05-17-2011, 10:03 AM
Hes already probably better than Jordan

IndyRealist
05-17-2011, 10:05 AM
Chris Paul doesn't have a supporting cast, Deron Williams got traded to a lottery team, and Rajon Rondo was playing with one arm.

I don't understand how the same commentators that go on and on about how stifling the Bulls' team defense is can say, in the same breath, that all the credit goes to Rose.

Hiphopopotamus
05-17-2011, 10:05 AM
Dude sucks.

THE GIPPER
05-17-2011, 10:09 AM
let him become the best player at his position first.

This.


And JA Adande just lost a lot of credability if he had any in the first place.

mikealike305
05-17-2011, 10:09 AM
whats wein?

Cool007
05-17-2011, 10:09 AM
top 5 in the league, yes. THE BEST in the league.. uummmm no.

This.

He is not the best yet, still ways to go.

However, if he wins the Championship this year and plays huge from here on out, then I could definitely see a lot of people putting him at #1.

ccg34
05-17-2011, 10:14 AM
Kobe, Lebron, Dwight, CP3, Deron Williams, KD, Dirk> D Rose

mikealike305
05-17-2011, 10:22 AM
re open thread when lebron, kobe, and wade retire.... and rose plays on the other end of the floor

kozelkid
05-17-2011, 10:31 AM
Rose isn't even top 5. People are living in the moment.

1.Lebron
2.Howard
3.Wade
4.Kobe.
5.Paul
Durrant
Dirk
Melo
Williams

Rose coule be interchangable with Melo and Williams.

Stop living in the moment. Rose is arguablly top 10, not top 5.

Oh please. He has surpassed Melo and Williams easily. In just his third season he has had a better PER and win shares than either Deron or Melo had in their best seasons. He is also interchangeable with Kobe considering statistically he was almost identical this season. By next season, as Kobe continues to decline, Rose will surpass him.
Paul is a question mark simply because during the regular season he pretty much skipped every third game. But I do agree, when Paul goes all out, he's also better.
In reality, Dirk, Durant, Rose and Kobe are all within each other. All have very close PERs and win shares per 48 min. Wade, Howard and Lebron are all in another league though. I'm tempted to put Dirk in that category though with the playoffs he has had.

justinnum1
05-17-2011, 10:33 AM
Rose isn't even top 5. People are living in the moment.

1.Lebron
2.Howard
3.Wade
4.Kobe.
5.Paul
Durrant
Dirk
Melo
Williams

Rose coule be interchangable with Melo and Williams.

Stop living in the moment. Rose is arguablly top 10, not top 5.

This.

hugepatsfan
05-17-2011, 10:36 AM
Lebron
Wade
Dwight
Kobe
CP3
Durant
Dirk

Those 7 are clearly the best 7 in the NBA right now. I think Rose, D-Will, and Melo are the next 3. I'd go Melo at 8, D-Will at 9, and Rose at 10. If Rose repeats this type of awesome season next year, he'll probably move up ahead of Melo and D-Will in my list, but still behind those top 7. They're a good ways ahead of anyone else in the NBA IMO.

limebalz05
05-17-2011, 10:37 AM
I'd put him in front of Melo!

Baller1
05-17-2011, 10:38 AM
Let the kid just play ****ing basketball, my god. Shut up Adande.

kozelkid
05-17-2011, 10:39 AM
Again, can people give me any statistical indication that D-will or Melo are clearly better. Cause I'd LOVE to see some.

On the other hand, most overall stats show that Rose is right there with Durant, Dirk, and Kobe.

As I said before, CP3 is difficult to judge. When he goes all out he is right there with Wade, Lebron and Dwight, but since he doesn't do that in a consistent basis...

limebalz05
05-17-2011, 10:43 AM
Oh please. He has surpassed Melo and Williams easily. In just his third season he has had a better PER and win shares than either Deron or Melo had in their best seasons. He is also interchangeable with Kobe considering statistically he was almost identical this season. By next season, as Kobe continues to decline, Rose will surpass him.
Paul is a question mark simply because during the regular season he pretty much skipped every third game. But I do agree, when Paul goes all out, he's also better.
In reality, Dirk, Durant, Rose and Kobe are all within each other. All have very close PERs and win shares per 48 min. Wade, Howard and Lebron are all in another league though. I'm tempted to put Dirk in that category though with the playoffs he has had.

Melo yes, but Williams i disagree. Deron didn't exactly have an elite supporting cast in any of his seasons in NBA. Williams defense, passing ability, vision, and outside shooting are all superior to Rose. Rose can beat any man off the dribble, but his shooting is below avg for a PG.

This isn't a knock on Rose, but Rose has to work on his game (which he has the talent and desire to do so). Another yr in college would have been beneficial to Rose overall game.

Da Knicks
05-17-2011, 10:43 AM
I'd put him in front of Melo!

:cry: :mad: Melo will make everyone regret all the bs he is getting this season!

islandprince
05-17-2011, 10:44 AM
no he aint yet he is top8 n he is betta den rondo for sure but chis paul n derron williams to me are tha top 2 at his position

wizardsfan3
05-17-2011, 10:48 AM
Lebron
Wade
Dwight
Kobe
CP3
Durant
Dirk

Those 7 are clearly the best 7 in the NBA right now. I think Rose, D-Will, and Melo are the next 3. I'd go Melo at 8, D-Will at 9, and Rose at 10. If Rose repeats this type of awesome season next year, he'll probably move up ahead of Melo and D-Will in my list, but still behind those top 7. They're a good ways ahead of anyone else in the NBA IMO.

I think that list goes:
Lebron
Kobe
Dwight
Wade
Cp3
Durant
Dirk
Rose
Melo
D-will

THE_G.O.A.T.
05-17-2011, 10:48 AM
Sometimes players get too much credit by the media. Lets be honest, Derrick Rose is the best player on the best team in the NBA. The historic rise of the Bulls to the top was so quick that people forget D-Rose is only in his very early twenties. He has not even begun to show what he is capable of. He's definitely in the top five of the league, but is still getting better.

But think about this...
The Heat clearly have a better, more talented team than the Bulls, so if the Bulls beat the Heat this series how can you not say that Derrick Rose isn't better than Lebron and Wade?

sixer04fan
05-17-2011, 10:48 AM
Nah... Lebron >>> Rose

Tarheels23
05-17-2011, 10:51 AM
Sometimes players get too much credit by the media. Lets be honest, Derrick Rose is the best player on the best team in the NBA. The historic rise of the Bulls to the top was so quick that people forget D-Rose is only in his very early twenties. He has not even begun to show what he is capable of. He's definitely in the top five of the league, but is still getting better.

But think about this...
The Heat clearly have a better, more talented team than the Bulls, so if the Bulls beat the Heat this series how can you not say that Derrick Rose isn't better than Lebron and Wade?

Because the Bulls have more depth, a better coach, more size, a better defense and better role players than the Heat. The Bulls success isnt solely based on Derrick Rose. While he is their best player, every win is a total team effort with many factors contributing. The Heat's wins and losses are solely on Lebron/Wade. It is much different.

kozelkid
05-17-2011, 10:53 AM
Melo yes, but Williams i disagree. Deron didn't exactly have an elite supporting cast in any of his seasons in NBA. Williams defense, passing ability, vision, and outside shooting are all superior to Rose. Rose can beat any man off the dribble, but his shooting is below avg for a PG.

This isn't a knock on Rose, but Rose has to work on his game (which he has the talent and desire to do so). Another yr in college would have been beneficial to Rose overall game.

What does that even mean?
Yes, Deron has a better court vision. I agree. But how can you prove to be that his defense is better. If anything, advanced stats show that Rose was the best defender at his position this year.

Rose went to the line at a better rate. Sure he might not be as good of a shooter, but he did it better as a driver. Having an elite supporting cast will hurt your overall numbers rather than help. Hence, Lebron's and Wade's PER went down when they joined forces. And Rose's shooting is NOT below average for a pg or for any player for that matter. This is a myth that must end. It hasn't been the case since his second season where he had one of the best mid range games nor this season where he had a pretty good 3pt shot (it tailed off near the end), but with one more offseason, I expect him to be near 36% for next season which is pretty damn good.

Again, you look at Rose's overall numbers (PER and win shares, and even +/-), neither D-Will nor Melo (in their best seasons) ever came close to Rose's in just his 3rd season. I don't understand this refusal to accept that Rose has definitely surpassed them.

As for college, I don't really agree. Considering he came right in and became ROY, became an allstar his second season and the youngest MVP his 3rd. I think he did just fine. :shrug:

justinnum1
05-17-2011, 10:53 AM
Because the Bulls have more depth, a better coach, more size, a better defense and better role players than the Heat. The Bulls success isnt solely based on Derrick Rose. While he is their best player, every win is a total team effort with many factors contributing. The Heat's wins and losses are solely on Lebron/Wade. It is much different.

:burn:

Baller1
05-17-2011, 10:54 AM
Again, can people give me any statistical indication that D-will or Melo are clearly better. Cause I'd LOVE to see some.

On the other hand, most overall stats show that Rose is right there with Durant, Dirk, and Kobe.

As I said before, CP3 is difficult to judge. When he goes all out he is right there with Wade, Lebron and Dwight, but since he doesn't do that in a consistent basis...

This I can't agree with.

All three are known for their scoring, but Durant and Dirk are light years ahead of Rose in that regard.

SteBO
05-17-2011, 10:54 AM
Because the Bulls have more depth, a better coach, more size, a better defense and better role players than the Heat. The Bulls success isnt solely based on Derrick Rose. While he is their best player, every win is a total team effort with many factors contributing. The Heat's wins and losses are solely on Lebron/Wade. It is much different.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

kozelkid
05-17-2011, 10:56 AM
Because the Bulls have more depth, a better coach, more size, a better defense and better role players than the Heat. The Bulls success isnt solely based on Derrick Rose. While he is their best player, every win is a total team effort with many factors contributing. The Heat's wins and losses are solely on Lebron/Wade. It is much different.

I agree with that completely.
At the same time, this place is like the opposite of the media, people downplay Rose's offensive impact WAY too much. Just in the beginning of the postseason, people claimed Bulls would struggle cause of their dependency on Rose and weak role players. Well you can't have it both ways. Bulls have done fine and Rose is still the star and leader.

Lebron, Wade, Howard, and Paul (at the top of his game) are ahead of Rose. No question about it. But just look at it statistically, Rose has been as good as Durant, Dirk and Kobe. And better than D-will and Melo.

k.smith904
05-17-2011, 10:58 AM
look at all these insecure fans clench their buttholes because of something JA Adande said. Maybe you all need to go out and go fishing with your favorite players.

I'd say Lebron is the only player above Rose this year. smh at people claiming Kobe > Rose. This isn't 2006, get with the times.

Rose scores a lot = Not a true PG, will lead to teams downfall.
Rose doesn't score a lot = He's not really that good, his team makes him better.


Haters all day. When he's hoisting the trophy you people will continue to downplay his success. I think some fans are so shocked at his improvement this year they are just chalking it up to a fluke year. Well, keep hoping. This dude is only 22 and he's dominating the league.

kozelkid
05-17-2011, 10:59 AM
This I can't agree with.

All three are known for their scoring, but Durant and Dirk are light years ahead of Rose in that regard.

No question about that.
But Durant's inability to create for others put Rose right back in the conversation.
I've said it before, if Durant could learn to create for others, he'd be right there with Lebron, Wade. He has yet to do it. And the overall statistical numbers show that.

I'd also say Westbrook is right there with Rose, Durant, Dirk, Kobe, etc. My only issue with Westbrook (and I admit this is subjective), he hasn't shown the ability imo to be a number one option with pressure on him. When has done it in the playoffs, he hasn't been too successful.

Da Knicks
05-17-2011, 11:01 AM
crazy talk!

SteBO
05-17-2011, 11:01 AM
I agree with that completely.
At the same time, this place is like the opposite of the media, people downplay Rose's offensive impact WAY too much. Just in the beginning of the postseason, people claimed Bulls would struggle cause of their dependency on Rose and weak role players. Well you can't have it both ways. Bulls have done fine and Rose is still the star and leader.

Lebron, Wade, Howard, and Paul (at the top of his game) are ahead of Rose. No question about it. But just look at it statistically, Rose has been as good as Durant, Dirk and Kobe. And better than D-will and Melo.

I know people tried downplaying his offensive impact in the MVP debate, but you gotta score to win games, too. And Derrick Rose is the Bulls' primary source of offense, while getting better distributing the ball as well. I put him well above D-Will and 'Melo, and on line with Durant. I know Durant is a better scorer, but at least he has Russell. When Rose really has to, he is more than capable of putting up 40 when need be. It's all relative.

jp611
05-17-2011, 11:01 AM
Not even top 5. He didn't even play all that great in game 1.

You know you're really great when people say that 28 points isnt great

jp611
05-17-2011, 11:03 AM
Tarheels now states that the Bulls are a good team when it can be in his argument, but before the Bulls were going to lose to Atlanta and didnt stand a chance against the Heat, gotta love the double standards

PhillyFaninLA
05-17-2011, 11:06 AM
J. A. Andande is this your first attempt at fiction?

AIMelo=KillaDUO
05-17-2011, 11:08 AM
Rose isn't even top 5. People are living in the moment.
1.Lebron
2.Howard
3.Wade
4.Kobe.
5.Paul
Durrant
Dirk
Melo
Williams

Rose coule be interchangable with Melo and Williams.

Stop living in the moment. Rose is arguablly top 10, not top 5.

That's the way people are on PSD...

John Walls Era
05-17-2011, 11:10 AM
No thank you. I think we can all see that the Bulls may be the best, not Derrick Rose alone. Their defense is insane... and it shows to some fans that its not all Rose. Hes good, a top 5 guard (note: didn't say point), but not the best overall player.

macc
05-17-2011, 11:11 AM
Oh please. He has surpassed Melo and Williams easily. In just his third season he has had a better PER and win shares than either Deron or Melo had in their best seasons. He is also interchangeable with Kobe considering statistically he was almost identical this season. By next season, as Kobe continues to decline, Rose will surpass him.
Paul is a question mark simply because during the regular season he pretty much skipped every third game. But I do agree, when Paul goes all out, he's also better.
In reality, Dirk, Durant, Rose and Kobe are all within each other. All have very close PERs and win shares per 48 min. Wade, Howard and Lebron are all in another league though. I'm tempted to put Dirk in that category though with the playoffs he has had.



Get out of here with that per crap. Stat geeks drive me nuts sometimes when they base there entire argument over "per." Rose has not surpassed Carmelo or Williams. Rose has had 2 winning seasons. Carmelo and Williams have been winning since they got in the league and have held their teams to an elite level over multiple years.

It's crazy how some of these posters will put these noob players over players who have been elite for many years now. That's saying that Rose's 2 yrs in the league have surpassed Dirks Or Carmelos multiple 50 win seasons in the West.

Call me old school but I like to see players earn their stripes before people are annointing top anything.

John Walls Era
05-17-2011, 11:11 AM
That's the way people are on PSD...

His list isn't unreasonable...

Tarheels23
05-17-2011, 11:12 AM
Tarheels now states that the Bulls are a good team when it can be in his argument, but before the Bulls were going to lose to Atlanta and didnt stand a chance against the Heat, gotta love the double standards

Yeah so never said they were going to lose to ATL. I wanted ATL to win, but never believed they could.

And I do believe that they will lose to the Heat. I (think) I picked Miami in 6 (or 7) and I will stand by that. The Celtics also had a better team, more depth, better coach, experienced/better role players than Miami... but look what happened there.


Just because I think Rose is overrated and should not have won MVP doesnt mean that I think the Bulls arent a good team

Baller1
05-17-2011, 11:14 AM
No question about that.
But Durant's inability to create for others put Rose right back in the conversation.
I've said it before, if Durant could learn to create for others, he'd be right there with Lebron, Wade. He has yet to do it. And the overall statistical numbers show that.

I'd also say Westbrook is right there with Rose, Durant, Dirk, Kobe, etc. My only issue with Westbrook (and I admit this is subjective), he hasn't shown the ability imo to be a number one option with pressure on him. When has done it in the playoffs, he hasn't been too successful.

Fair enough.

As for Westbrook, I think he has the natural gifts/talents/abilities to be the best player, top 3 for sure, in the entire NBA (I truly believe that). However, an inconsistent jumper and drastically underwhelming basketball IQ at times keep him down around the 8-13 range unfortunately. Hopefully he can fix that, but we'll see.

Sadds The Gr8
05-17-2011, 11:16 AM
nope

kozelkid
05-17-2011, 11:17 AM
Yeah so never said they were going to lose to ATL. I wanted ATL to win, but never believed they could.

And I do believe that they will lose to the Heat. I (think) I picked Miami in 6 (or 7) and I will stand by that. The Celtics also had a better team, more depth, better coach, experienced/better role players than Miami... but look what happened there.


That's been a myth since the deadline.
Top 3? Heat
Bench? Boston's bench hasn't exactly been that much better, especially with the injuries.
Coach? I've always said Doc has been overrated who got way too much credit for Thibs' schemes. Great motivator, not a very good X's and O's. The guy was nearly fired after that awful season in 06-07 until big 3 was formed.

Had Shaq been healthy, Davis been playing more like last season, Perkins still there, KG, Rondo and Allen not as inconsistent as they have been, would have been a more competitive series. Honestly, I wanted the Celtics to win, but I knew they didn't stand a chance after watching my Bulls demolish them and then the Heat did the same a few days later.

Cubs Win
05-17-2011, 11:18 AM
Fair enough.

As for Westbrook, I think he has the natural gifts/talents/abilities to be the best player, top 3 for sure, in the entire NBA (I truly believe that). However, an inconsistent jumper and drastically underwhelming basketball IQ at times keep him down around the 8-13 range unfortunately. Hopefully he can fix that, but we'll see.

I definitely agree with your Westbrook statement. While they don't play exactly the same games, I tend to see him as a Rose-lite for right now. Considering they workout together in the offseason and have similar builds, it's no surprise.

As for Rose, I don't think he's the best in the NBA, but you can put a solid argument together for anywhere from 5-8. And I'd expect another jump from him next season when his shooting will probably improve again. He also plans to work a lot on his post game. This will be very interesting for Bulls fans and scary for the rest of the league. :eyebrow:

CHI CITY FAN 93
05-17-2011, 11:19 AM
Yeah so never said they were going to lose to ATL. I wanted ATL to win, but never believed they could.

And I do believe that they will lose to the Heat. I (think) I picked Miami in 6 (or 7) and I will stand by that. The Celtics also had a better team, more depth, better coach, experienced/better role players than Miami... but look what happened there.


Just because I think Rose is overrated and should not have won MVP doesnt mean that I think the Bulls arent a good team

so you think he is over rated? please state why? because i bet you cant. And who shouldve won MVP, and again please state your reasoning.

Tarheels23
05-17-2011, 11:22 AM
That's been a myth since the deadline.
Top 3? Heat
Bench? Boston's bench hasn't exactly been that much better, especially with the injuries.
Coach? I've always said Doc has been overrated who got way too much credit for Thibs' schemes. Great motivator, not a very good X's and O's. The guy was nearly fired after that awful season in 06-07 until big 3 was formed.

Had Shaq been healthy, Davis been playing more like last season, Perkins still there, KG, Rondo and Allen not as inconsistent as they have been, would have been a more competitive series. Honestly, I wanted the Celtics to win, but I knew they didn't stand a chance after watching my Bulls demolish them and then the Heat did the same a few days later.

You really think so?
Top 3 to the Heat? Obv James and Wade are top two. But I think a healthy Rondo and Pierce are ahead of Bosh. After that Allen, KG and Green trump anyone on the Heat. Davis played like garbage but Delonte played well.

And for the record... Phil Jackson, Coach K, John Wooden, Larry Brown couldnt coach that 06-07 team to more than 30 wins

Tarheels23
05-17-2011, 11:24 AM
so you think he is over rated? please state why? because i bet you cant. And who shouldve won MVP, and again please state your reasoning.

Sorry but I really do not want to get into this

sammid21
05-17-2011, 11:25 AM
Rose isnt the best player, Lebrick is. I guess people are saying Rose can be the best in the NBA because he plays in a big market and gets the exposure that is needed to be considered the best. Imagine Durant in Chicago, people wouldve called him the next Jordan and the best in the league. i consider Rose in the top 5, because he has done so much in his first 3 years than Dirk, Melo, D-Will, and even Kobes first 3 years. and to call his teammates elite? well the only elite thing on the bulls is Thibs, his system and Rose.

To call him the best.... well i think people should wait until his 5th or maybe 7th season

kozelkid
05-17-2011, 11:32 AM
You really think so?
Top 3 to the Heat? Obv James and Wade are top two. But I think a healthy Rondo and Pierce are ahead of Bosh. After that Allen, KG and Green trump anyone on the Heat. Davis played like garbage but Delonte played well.

And for the record... Phil Jackson, Coach K, John Wooden, Larry Brown couldnt coach that 06-07 team to more than 30 wins

Well if you compare big 3's, Lebron and Pierce are the best for their respective teams, followed by KG and Wade and Bosh and Rondo. At least in my opinion. In that collective unit, Miami's big 3 obviously destroys Boston. At this point Allen was WAY to inconsistent. I really think he is just a Korver or James Jones who can get hotter than them from time to time and put the ball on the floor.

Fact of the matter is that without a healthy Shaq or Perkins, they couldn't exploit Miami's weakness of the offensive rebound. Boston played right into Miami's strengths. They are just too poor a rebounding team. They were bad as it is, but when KG and Allen can't be reliant as consistent offensive forces, you are kinda ****ed. This is where Bulls have their chance cause they are by far the best rebounding team.

As for Doc, sure that 06-07 team sucked. He never showed great coaching ability before that. Celtics defense was ALL Thibodeau. Doc is a great motivator and knows how to relate with players, but he really is not a good X's and O's guy and it showed by Boston's lack of adjustments and just going ISO with Pierce rather than trying to move the ball.

Cool007
05-17-2011, 11:37 AM
If Rose is not top 5 then people are just not watching this year's NBA. Either they are still leaving in yesteryear or plain ignorant or just hating.

Here's the ACTUAL top 5:

1 - LeBron
2 - Dwight
3 - D-Wade
4 - Durant
5 - D-Rose
6 - Dirk
7 - Kobe

Those are the top 7.

All of a sudden Bulls win game 1 vs Heat where the whole team shows up and their defense/rebounding and all of a sudden, it's Bulls defense is winning the games. Even though people totally overlooked how Rose was the top scorer on the Bulls (28-points) and how Heat were sending double teams off of pick and roll every time down the court (which opened up for others).

Anyway, I don't have to explain all these stuff. If you have been watching games for long long time, you would see it. Unless ofcourse, you are ignoring it or simply hating it.

Revolu7i9n
05-17-2011, 11:46 AM
JA Adande is an Uncle Tom

uncalled for.

Revolu7i9n
05-17-2011, 11:48 AM
If Rose is not top 5 then people are just not watching this year's NBA. Either they are still leaving in yesteryear or plain ignorant or just hating.

Here's the ACTUAL top 5:

1 - LeBron
2 - Dwight
3 - D-Wade
4 - Durant
5 - D-Rose
6 - Dirk
7 - Kobe

Those are the top 7.

All of a sudden Bulls win game 1 vs Heat where the whole team shows up and their defense/rebounding and all of a sudden, it's Bulls defense is winning the games. Even though people totally overlooked how Rose was the top scorer on the Bulls (28-points) and how Heat were sending double teams off of pick and roll every time down the court (which opened up for others).

Anyway, I don't have to explain all these stuff. If you have been watching games for long long time, you would see it. Unless ofcourse, you are ignoring it or simply hating it.

:clap:

Sadds The Gr8
05-17-2011, 11:48 AM
JA Adande is an Uncle Tom

:laugh2:

SoxBearsBulls!
05-17-2011, 11:49 AM
Anyone who thinks Kobe and Paul are better than Rose is living in 2008-09...hell, Wade isn't much better than Rose if he's still better.
Rose will clearly surpuss Wade next year at 23 while Wade officially becomes a 30 something year old.

jockrider
05-17-2011, 11:49 AM
Sometimes players get too much credit by the media. Lets be honest, Derrick Rose is the best player on the best team in the NBA. The historic rise of the Bulls to the top was so quick that people forget D-Rose is only in his very early twenties. He has not even begun to show what he is capable of. He's definitely in the top five of the league, but is still getting better.

But think about this...
The Heat clearly have a better, more talented team than the Bulls, so if the Bulls beat the Heat this series how can you not say that Derrick Rose isn't better than Lebron and Wade?

wut?

and no clearly the bulls are more deep with advantages in 2 most important positions in the nba.

KingPosey
05-17-2011, 11:52 AM
Hey chicago fans, Rose is awesome, he deserved the mvp, but let me get something through your heads:

-HE'S NOT THE BEST.
-HE'S NOT THE BEST.
-HE'S NOT THE BEST.
-HE'S NOT THE BEST.
-HE'S NOT THE BEST.

You guys ruin what credit he WOULD get.

kozelkid
05-17-2011, 11:53 AM
Hey chicago fans, Rose is awesome, he deserved the mvp, but let me get something through your heads:

-HE'S NOT THE BEST.
-HE'S NOT THE BEST.
-HE'S NOT THE BEST.
-HE'S NOT THE BEST.
-HE'S NOT THE BEST.

You guys ruin what credit he WOULD get.

And please name ONE Chicago poster who ever said he is the best. No one said that. So please end the generalizing garbage.

KingPosey
05-17-2011, 11:54 AM
So a guy from Illinois started this thread for what reason?

And its funny that all the Chi posters just forget how crazy you guys talk about Rose.
Its ridiculous that you actually try to deny it.

Rose is the third best player on the floor in this series and thats not really debatable.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-17-2011, 11:55 AM
:cry: :mad: Melo will make everyone regret all the bs he is getting this season!

lol

Rose>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Melo

jockrider
05-17-2011, 11:55 AM
look at all these insecure fans clench their buttholes because of something JA Adande said. Maybe you all need to go out and go fishing with your favorite players.

I'd say Lebron is the only player above Rose this year. smh at people claiming Kobe > Rose. This isn't 2006, get with the times.

Rose scores a lot = Not a true PG, will lead to teams downfall.
Rose doesn't score a lot = He's not really that good, his team makes him better.


Haters all day. When he's hoisting the trophy you people will continue to downplay his success. I think some fans are so shocked at his improvement this year they are just chalking it up to a fluke year. Well, keep hoping. This dude is only 22 and he's dominating the league.

/rant.

Chicagofaithful
05-17-2011, 11:56 AM
Rose isn't even top 5. People are living in the moment.

1.Lebron
2.Howard
3.Wade
4.Kobe.
5.Paul
Durrant
Dirk
Melo
Williams

Rose coule be interchangable with Melo and Williams.

Stop living in the moment. Rose is arguablly top 10, not top 5.

I think at this point Rose > Wade...

Cool007
05-17-2011, 11:57 AM
So a guy from Illinois started this thread for what reason?

And its funny that all the Chi posters just forget how crazy you guys talk about Rose.
Its ridiculous that you actually try to deny it.

Rose is the third best player on the floor in this series and thats not really debatable.

It was an article, it wasn't his own opinion.

2 different things.

jockrider
05-17-2011, 11:59 AM
If Rose is not top 5 then people are just not watching this year's NBA. Either they are still leaving in yesteryear or plain ignorant or just hating.

Here's the ACTUAL top 5:

1 - LeBron
2 - Dwight
3 - D-Wade
4 - Durant
5 - D-Rose
6 - Dirk
7 - Kobe

Those are the top 7.

All of a sudden Bulls win game 1 vs Heat where the whole team shows up and their defense/rebounding and all of a sudden, it's Bulls defense is winning the games. Even though people totally overlooked how Rose was the top scorer on the Bulls (28-points) and how Heat were sending double teams off of pick and roll every time down the court (which opened up for others).

Anyway, I don't have to explain all these stuff. If you have been watching games for long long time, you would see it. Unless ofcourse, you are ignoring it or simply hating it.

are you a rose fan or bulls fan? the whole 2nd paragraph makes you look like a fanboy trying to down play the team to make rose look better.

sammid21
05-17-2011, 11:59 AM
Hey chicago fans, Rose is awesome, he deserved the mvp, but let me get something through your heads:

-HE'S NOT THE BEST.
-HE'S NOT THE BEST.
-HE'S NOT THE BEST.
-HE'S NOT THE BEST.
-HE'S NOT THE BEST.

You guys ruin what credit he WOULD get.

No bulls fans are saying he is the best. We are aying he should be in the top 5. only homers would say he is the best, and usually homers are best to be left alone and not argued with because you wont change their minds

KingPosey
05-17-2011, 12:03 PM
I think at this point Rose > Wade...

lol what in the world would make you say this with any conviction?

Listen i dont like the heat, and i dont hate rose, but this is getting ridiculous.
Wade was a batter player, and more efficient and productive and he shared the ball with another player.

KingPosey
05-17-2011, 12:06 PM
It was an article, it wasn't his own opinion.

2 different things.

ya, im sure he made a thread with no motive. It was completely objective and he doesnt even have an opinion....:eyebrow:

gwrighter
05-17-2011, 12:10 PM
I think at this point Rose > Wade...

nope.

Drose is really only an above average player when he is driving to the net(though he is really good at it). His jump-shooting ability is average and defence is atrocious. Everyone gets caught up in his spectacular drives but forgets everything else that he is average at.

you can make an argument that Rose is a better penetrator than Dwade but he is not so much a better player.

KingPosey
05-17-2011, 12:12 PM
Anyone who thinks Kobe and Paul are better than Rose is living in 2008-09...hell, Wade isn't much better than Rose if he's still better.
Rose will clearly surpuss Wade next year at 23 while Wade officially becomes a 30 something year old.

see what Im saying, Wade is CLEARLY better than Rose. What statistically backs up that Rose is better?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rosede01.html


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html

I just dont see it.

kozelkid
05-17-2011, 12:15 PM
So a guy from Illinois started this thread for what reason?

And its funny that all the Chi posters just forget how crazy you guys talk about Rose.
Its ridiculous that you actually try to deny it.

Rose is the third best player on the floor in this series and thats not really debatable.

To create discussion.
Why don't you go to the Bulls forum instead of roaming the NBA forum where most "Bulls fans" don't even post on our forum. You won't find ONE person say that Rose is better than Lebron or the best in the league.

So again, shut up. And quit the generalizations.

Rose is the third best player in this series and I have ZERO problem admitting it as would most people in our forum. People like you claim that homers made the NBA forum go to the *******, well people like you accuse entire fanbases for a few so-called "fans" opinions are just as bad.

justinnum1
05-17-2011, 12:18 PM
see what Im saying, Wade is CLEARLY better than Rose. What statistically backs up that Rose is better?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rosede01.html


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html

I just dont see it.

Most don't either.

Gators123
05-17-2011, 12:21 PM
And please name ONE Chicago poster who ever said he is the best. No one said that. So please end the generalizing garbage.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/member.php?u=12447 :eyebrow:


Rose is the best player on the planet because he does it ALL not just stats and highlights. He holds himself accountable first and understands what being a true leader is all about. I can care less about expert opinions and people on this forum bashing me I have said all year Rose>LeBron

I know most Bulls fans don't say hes the best, but you did ask for one poster that has said it lol

Young and Stupid
05-17-2011, 12:24 PM
Sigh. Come on Adande, you're better than that. We've gone over this before.

Top 10:
1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Kevin Durant
5. Chris Paul
6. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Kobe Bryant
8. Deron Williams
9. Derrick Rose
10. Pau Gasol

eugene
05-17-2011, 12:24 PM
I'm so tired of this... ENOUGH!!!!!!

kozelkid
05-17-2011, 12:26 PM
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/member.php?u=12447 :eyebrow:



I know most Bulls fans don't say hes the best, but you did ask for one poster that has said it lol

Fine. I take it back. A CREDIBLE, RESPECTED poster (no offense to that dude of course, I just don't even know who he is :shrug:).

Again, all it takes is more people to realize that most objective Bulls fans post in the Bulls forum. You will never hear a Bulls fan say Rose is the best. Never. Because there is no statistical evidence to that claim. Anytime someone did say that, he was immediately shot down in our forum. Not to say we don't think Rose can't be eventually (albeit unlikely while Howard and Lebron are in this league), but there is no way he is right now.

Avenged
05-17-2011, 12:27 PM
Nah, not yet. Although if the Bulls end up winning it all this year (which is a high possibility), Rose will see a rise in individual rankings. Not so sure if he's top 5 yet, although for this season alone he is.. But I like to rank players that have played at a high level for more than 1 season.

He'll have a case for top 3 very soon if the Bulls end up with this success. He's very lucky to have a top defensive team, if not (and I know this because of Kobe's Lakers) we'd be talking about him being a top 10 player instead.

daricoliver
05-17-2011, 12:27 PM
Rose has been in the year 3 years and has trended upward each year, hard to call this a flash in the pan. He has been an all star twice now and just won the MVP. While, I agree if this was just one year, then I might agree that there is not enough body of work. This is not the case. I am sick of the whole lifetime achievement award that people keep wanting to give Williams and CP3. He has passed them both by, get over it. With that being said, he is not the best player in the league, although I think he is definitely top 5

JordansBulls
05-17-2011, 12:29 PM
Only way Rose can be considered is if the Bulls win the title this year. It would mean he won league mvp and more than likely finals mvp the same year along with the title.

And here are the names of players who have won league mvp and the title and from 1970 forward league mvp, finals mvp and the title.

1961 Bill Russell
1962 Bill Russell
1963 Bill Russell
1965 Bill Russell
1967 Wilt Chamberlain
1968 Connie Hawkins (ABA)
1970 Willis Reed
1971 Kareem
1974 Julius Erving (ABA)
1976 Julius Erving (ABA)
1980 Kareem
1983 Moses Malone
1984 Larry Bird
1986 Larry Bird
1987 Magic Johnson
1991 Michael Jordan
1992 Michael Jordan
1994 Hakeem Olajuwon
1996 Michael Jordan
1998 Michael Jordan
2000 Shaquille O'neal
2003 Tim Duncan

IMO all of them were the best player in the league when you can win league mvp and the title the same year.

mttwlsn16
05-17-2011, 12:32 PM
let him become the best player at his position first.

this


There's no way Derrick Rose is better than LeBron. Heat still win the series.

and this

daleja424
05-17-2011, 12:41 PM
First of all, the BUlls beat the HEAT b/c of Noah, Gibson, and Boozer... NOT b/c of Rose.

Second of all, I will start to discuss the possibility of Rose as the best player in the league when he becomes a two way player like Lebron and others. It's easy to be efficient on offense when you don't have to expend energy on defense. (Trust me...I know... Thats how I play these days. It is much harder to be good on offense when you are exhausted from chasing around players on the defensive end).

haggis
05-17-2011, 12:43 PM
First of all, the BUlls beat the HEAT b/c of Noah, Gibson, and Boozer... NOT b/c of Rose.

Second of all, I will start to discuss the possibility of Rose as the best player in the league when he becomes a two way player like Lebron and others. It's easy to be efficient on offense when you don't have to expend energy on defense. (Trust me...I know... Thats how I play these days. It is much harder to be good on offense when you are exhausted from chasing around players on the defensive end).

Have you taken a gander at Synergy Stats for this year?

kozelkid
05-17-2011, 12:44 PM
First of all, the BUlls beat the HEAT b/c of Noah, Gibson, and Boozer... NOT b/c of Rose.

Second of all, I will start to discuss the possibility of Rose as the best player in the league when he becomes a two way player like Lebron and others. It's easy to be efficient on offense when you don't have to expend energy on defense. (Trust me...I know... Thats how I play these days. It is much harder to be good on offense when you are exhausted from chasing around players on the defensive end).

It's funny you say that considering synergy proved that Rose had the best defensive stats out of any pg.

And yes, those 28 points and opening the offense and rebound opportunities for his teammates has NOTHING to do with Rose. :rolleyes:

BTW, Rose guarded Wade for a few stretches last game and made it pretty tough on him.

kozelkid
05-17-2011, 12:45 PM
Have you taken a gander at Synergy Stats for this year?

Pfft, who needs facts when you can just use outdated opinions.

Cool007
05-17-2011, 12:47 PM
Sigh. Come on Adande, you're better than that. We've gone over this before.

Top 10:
1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Kevin Durant
5. Chris Paul
6. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Kobe Bryant
8. Deron Williams
9. Derrick Rose
10. Pau Gasol


You are just like you username says.

Anyway, you know how absurd that is?? It is almost like Adande saying Rose is the best player.

How are Kobe/Deron/CP3 etc are better than Rose THIS year???

No, don't try to explain it, I still can't get over your username.

haggis
05-17-2011, 12:50 PM
Pfft, who needs facts when you can just use outdated opinions.

:laugh2:

oh riiiiiiiiiiight... I forgot where I was for a second.

Baller1
05-17-2011, 12:51 PM
You are just like you username says.

Anyway, you know how absurd that is?? It is almost like Adande saying Rose is the best player.

How are Kobe/Deron/CP3 etc are better than Rose THIS year???

No, don't try to explain it, I still can't get over your username.

It takes more than one great season to become an elite player. Will Rose become one? Absolutely, probably by this time next year. But for now, his list is very accurate.

Baller1
05-17-2011, 12:52 PM
Double post... :sigh:

Baller1
05-17-2011, 12:52 PM
:laugh2:

oh riiiiiiiiiiight... I forgot where I was for a second.

Stats aren't allowed here; come on now Haggis, you're better than that. :smoking:

jockrider
05-17-2011, 12:54 PM
Have you taken a gander at Synergy Stats for this year?

doesn't that thing also say boozer is a good defender?

JNA17
05-17-2011, 12:55 PM
:cry: :mad: Melo will make everyone regret all the bs he is getting this season!

Of course! And he will do so with his epic defense and his always efficient shooting instead of being a chucker. Yes Melo will show that people will regret the day anybody calls him the player he actually is! And he will do all of this...next year!

Cool007
05-17-2011, 12:56 PM
It takes more than one great season to become an elite player. Will Rose become one? Absolutely, probably by this time next year. But for now, his list is very accurate.

Umm what??? You can only be ELITE if you did that for more than 1 year?? Why? Is it some kind of made-up thing???

Besides Deron and Melo never ever in their careers (even in their best years) had a PER as good as Rose or has had a success as good as a Rose.

This is not your typical year either by a Star player.

Cool007
05-17-2011, 12:57 PM
doesn't that thing also say boozer is a good defender?

No it does not, unless you are looking at only Def. Rating.

daleja424
05-17-2011, 12:57 PM
Rose is effective according to synergy b/c he has Noah, Boozer, Gibson, Deng, etc to back him up when he gets beaten by his own man. I don't need stats to tell me that Rose is a poor defender (all I had to do was watch Jeff Teague torch him).

Besides that, Rose spent almost all of game one guarding Mike Bibby and Mario Chalmers.... get real people.

When Rose stands up and says I want to guard Wade and he goes out and does it and is still efficient as a scorer THEN he has an argument. Until then I stand by what I said... elite players on only one end of the court cannot be considered best in the league.

haggis
05-17-2011, 12:58 PM
It takes more than one great season to become an elite player. Will Rose become one? Absolutely, probably by this time next year.

I will completely agree with this.

For me, even though this season has been unbelievable and the fact that his 3 years he's been in the league have all trended upward, it's still way too early to call him the best in the league. With his work ethic and skill set, I could see him moving up the list, but this is still a big man's league and always will be.

I have him at anywhere 5-7 in the league.

And Kozel, I feel the exact same way about CP3. Statistically he is a monster, but (this years playoffs excluded) for me he is not assertive enough. He is by far the best player on that team and sometimes he doesn't act like it. I guess it's his lack of aggression that bothers me.

Cool007
05-17-2011, 01:02 PM
Rose is effective according to synergy b/c he has Noah, Boozer, Gibson, Deng, etc to back him up when he gets beaten by his own man. I don't need stats to tell me that Rose is a poor defender (all I had to do was watch Jeff Teague torch him).

Besides that, Rose spent almost all of game one guarding Mike Bibby and Mario Chalmers.... get real people.

When Rose stands up and says I want to guard Wade and he goes out and does it and is still efficient as a scorer THEN he has an argument. Until then I stand by what I said... elite players on only one end of the court cannot be considered best in the league.

And this guy says he watches games??? :facepalm:

First of all, Synergy sports look at individual with their individual possession per possesion defense and breaks it down in a multiple ways. It has nothing to do with how he has Boozer (LMAO) and Noah, Deng etc to help.

Rose did guard D-Wade for stretches there and did a GREAT job on him. Watch the game again please.

Teague was an afterthought, Bulls doubled and tripled JJ and JC about entire game and a lot of the stretches where Teague played great was when Korver was guarding him.

Also, Teague really surprised everyone (including Rose and Thibs).

Also, averaging 14ppg and 4apg is some sort of "Torch him"???

amazing some people will do anything to prove their point.

Baller1
05-17-2011, 01:04 PM
Umm what??? You can only be ELITE if you did that for more than 1 year?? Why? Is it some kind of made-up thing???

Besides Deron and Melo never ever in their careers (even in their best years) had a PER as good as Rose or has had a success as good as a Rose.

This is not your typical year either by a Star player.

So what if Rose has an off year next year? Something like the year he had in '09-'10. Is he still elite because of this one incredible year? No. You gotta earn your stripes in professional leagues, and one step in that is consistency and longevity.

Like I said, there's no doubt in my mind that he will continue to improve and impress, but he's gotta prove it's not just a one year wonder before you throw him in with the Lebrons, Wades, Dwights, and Durants.

THE_FLASH_21
05-17-2011, 01:07 PM
Rose isn't even top 5. People are living in the moment.

1.Lebron
2.Howard
3.Wade
4.Kobe.
5.Paul
Durrant
Dirk
Melo
Williams

Rose coule be interchangable with Melo and Williams.

Stop living in the moment. Rose is arguablly top 10, not top 5.

1.Lebron
2.Howard
3.Wade
4.Durant
5.Kobe
6.Dwill
7.Dirk
8.Paul
9.Melo




your close on your list. But the point is D Rose is a top 10 player not top 5

Cubs Win
05-17-2011, 01:08 PM
Rose is effective according to synergy b/c he has Noah, Boozer, Gibson, Deng, etc to back him up when he gets beaten by his own man. I don't need stats to tell me that Rose is a poor defender (all I had to do was watch Jeff Teague torch him).

Besides that, Rose spent almost all of game one guarding Mike Bibby and Mario Chalmers.... get real people.

When Rose stands up and says I want to guard Wade and he goes out and does it and is still efficient as a scorer THEN he has an argument. Until then I stand by what I said... elite players on only one end of the court cannot be considered best in the league.

daleja424: PSD's leader in :facepalm:'s since January of 2005.

THE_FLASH_21
05-17-2011, 01:09 PM
Look for all you people thinking Rose is this mega star.. Let him do it for a couple of years. Cause last time i checked he was a good PG last couple years, not this MEGA STAR!!!

Cool007
05-17-2011, 01:10 PM
So what if Rose has an off year next year? Something like the year he had in '09-'10. Is he still elite because of this one incredible year?

He is ELITE this year and this year alone. If he has a down year next year and then you rank him where he is supposed to, not based on 2010-11 or whatever season.

It's a year by yaer thing (similar to who makes all-star and who doesn't).



Like I said, there's no doubt in my mind that he will continue to improve and impress, but he's gotta prove it's not just a one year wonder before you throw him in with the Lebrons, Wades, Dwights, and Durants.



But you still have to give him a chance. It's not like he has been in the league for 7-8 years or something and now he is playing great all of a sudden thing.

He is trending upwards for all of 3 years he has played. He has improved in every facet of his game and is only 22, you know he has nowhere to go but up - or atleast stay at this level.

If he doesn't do that next year, then rank him where he is next year. Don't just penalize someone that is not in the league for many years or hasn't played next year. Next year isn't here yet.

jp611
05-17-2011, 01:10 PM
Look for all you people thinking Rose is this mega star.. Let him do it for a couple of years. Cause last time i checked he was a good PG last couple years, not this MEGA STAR!!!

He's also a 22 year old kid who has improved each and every single year he's played, why would he just magically get worse

kozelkid
05-17-2011, 01:11 PM
Rose is effective according to synergy b/c he has Noah, Boozer, Gibson, Deng, etc to back him up when he gets beaten by his own man. I don't need stats to tell me that Rose is a poor defender (all I had to do was watch Jeff Teague torch him).

They should bother watching the Atlanta series where Teague mostly scored off screens.


Besides that, Rose spent almost all of game one guarding Mike Bibby and Mario Chalmers.... get real people.

And he defended Wade great when he was told to.


When Rose stands up and says I want to guard Wade and he goes out and does it and is still efficient as a scorer THEN he has an argument. Until then I stand by what I said... elite players on only one end of the court cannot be considered best in the league.


If saying false statements makes you happy so be it. There's no point in having Rose guard the best player consistently cause it's a poor tactic. When he is defended the better player, he's done admirable. Stats have proved it.

And you are pretty damn arrogant if you are trying to argue with people who have watched Rose play every season with their own eyes and you think you know better. Get off your damn high horse. Rose passed the numbers and eye test on defense. He has become a damn good defender this season thanks to Thibs. Something, all of us were willing to admit he was below average at last season.

Hawkeye15
05-17-2011, 01:17 PM
Another member of the media living in the moment.

LeBron
Wade
Dwight
CP3
Kobe
Dirk
Durant

all better for sure. Arguable are Melo, DWill, but I think Rose is with them.

Rose is a top 8-9 player, but he isn't sniffing top 5 yet. Sorry.

Baller1
05-17-2011, 01:19 PM
He is ELITE this year and this year alone. If he has a down year next year and then you rank him where he is supposed to, not based on 2010-11 or whatever season.

It's a year by yaer thing (similar to who makes all-star and who doesn't).

But you still have to give him a chance. It's not like he has been in the league for 7-8 years or something and now he is playing great all of a sudden thing.

He is trending upwards for all of 3 years he has played. He has improved in every facet of his game and is only 22, you know he has nowhere to go but up - or atleast stay at this level.

If he doesn't do that next year, then rank him where he is next year. Don't just penalize someone that is not in the league for many years or hasn't played next year. Next year isn't here yet.

I'm not penalizing him in any way. Durant went through this same thing, only a year earlier... Some people wanted to crown him a top 3 player way too prematurely. He was expected to win MVP, get a top 2 seed, make a deep playoff run, etc, etc. Realistically, he needed to prove himself among the elite. Last year was his audition, this year was his first show.

Now it's Rose's turn. This was his audition year to be anointed an elite NBA player. He passed with flying colors. Now, we must wait. We wait until next year to determine whether or not his audition was a fluke, or whether he's here to stay among the elite.

If he gets his scoring efficiency up a bit, gets his assists up around 9, and continues to lead his team to a top seed... He will have a legitimate shot of cracking the top 5.

kozelkid
05-17-2011, 01:20 PM
Another member of the media living in the moment.

LeBron
Wade
Dwight
CP3
Kobe
Dirk
Durant

all better for sure. Arguable are Melo, DWill, but I think Rose is with them.

Rose is a top 8-9 player, but he isn't sniffing top 5 yet. Sorry.

Again, bolded are debatable if you look at respective PERs and win shares. Well CP3 is just hard to judge as I said earlier depending on whether he is going 100% or taking every 3rd game off which he kinda did in the regular season.

JordansBulls
05-17-2011, 01:21 PM
First of all, the BUlls beat the HEAT b/c of Noah, Gibson, and Boozer... NOT b/c of Rose.

Second of all, I will start to discuss the possibility of Rose as the best player in the league when he becomes a two way player like Lebron and others. It's easy to be efficient on offense when you don't have to expend energy on defense. (Trust me...I know... Thats how I play these days. It is much harder to be good on offense when you are exhausted from chasing around players on the defensive end).

He is a 2 way player. Got more blocks on the season than Lebron. And I really care less about Rose being the best in the league just want to win.

Rivera
05-17-2011, 01:22 PM
i dont think JA Adande said derrick rose is the best in the league.....i think adande said its time to think of rose as the best in this league....

which is true....if you enter the top 5 discussion you are arguably the best player in the league...i am critical of the bulls and of rose but after every game it just seems like destiny for them this year....so much has happened for them and everything is going right for the bulls and rose has a real shot of winning it all this year...and if rose and the bulls beat the heat with wade james and bosh basically with no other all star you have to talk to him as one of the best

i dont consider rose a pure pg but he may be the best pg since he techincally plays the pg...i am a rose critic and rose has moved into my top 5

top 5 in the nba TODAY

wade
lebron
dwight
durant
rose

Hustlenomics
05-17-2011, 01:23 PM
Adande needs to get fired ASAP

Gators123
05-17-2011, 01:24 PM
In my opinion...

LeBron
Dwight
Wade
CP3
Kobe
Dirk
Durant
Rose

JordansBulls
05-17-2011, 01:24 PM
Another member of the media living in the moment.

LeBron
Wade
Dwight
CP3
Kobe
Dirk
Durant

all better for sure. Arguable are Melo, DWill, but I think Rose is with them.

Rose is a top 8-9 player, but he isn't sniffing top 5 yet. Sorry.

This year no in bold.

Young and Stupid
05-17-2011, 01:24 PM
You are just like you username says.

Anyway, you know how absurd that is?? It is almost like Adande saying Rose is the best player.

How are Kobe/Deron/CP3 etc are better than Rose THIS year???

No, don't try to explain it, I still can't get over your username.

It's funny, people continually attack the username as if it takes away from my credibility (not that credibility exists on a sports forum) and feel satisfied with their remark as if they've broken new ground. There's an abundance of irony involved with that tired jab -- it is amusing, though.

If you think my list is "absurd," then please detail why that's the case. We've gone through this before; I really don't take pleasure in redundancy, but if you're gonna call me out then I'm gonna be forced to respond.

My prediction: You either don't respond ... or throw another ad hominem at me (a bad one, at that) and walk out on top.

Rocketsfan85
05-17-2011, 01:29 PM
He's not even top 5 and he's a borderline top 10 player and he's not even the best PG in the league

ackar
05-17-2011, 01:35 PM
i laugh Rose win cement this once he hoist the James Naismith trophy!

Hawkeye15
05-17-2011, 01:38 PM
Again, bolded are debatable if you look at respective PERs and win shares. Well CP3 is just hard to judge as I said earlier depending on whether he is going 100% or taking every 3rd game off which he kinda did in the regular season.

let me know when Rose does this year in and year out, and THEN it becomes debateable.

We are simply loving the flavor the month guys. If Rose does this another year or two, we THEN start talking about him as a top 3-4 player.

Hawkeye15
05-17-2011, 01:40 PM
I don't think anyone doubts Rose will end up a top 5 player, but one great season doesn't just leapfrog you over guys that have been crushing it for years fellas. Kobe, Dirk, CP3, Dwight, LeBron, and Wade have been playing this well for years, and Durant is one year up on Rose.

Let him EARN his spot in the top 5 players. Don't just give it to him for one great season.

gsgs49
05-17-2011, 01:42 PM
In my opinion...

LeBron
Dwight
Wade
CP3
Kobe
Dirk
Durant
Rose

+1 this is my top 8 and in this order.

kozelkid
05-17-2011, 01:45 PM
let me know when Rose does this year in and year out, and THEN it becomes debateable.

We are simply loving the flavor the month guys. If Rose does this another year or two, we THEN start talking about him as a top 3-4 player.

This has been his PER and win shares the whole season. I think that's a good enough sample size. Especially for a player who will only get better.


I don't think anyone doubts Rose will end up a top 5 player, but one great season doesn't just leapfrog you over guys that have been crushing it for years fellas. Kobe, Dirk, CP3, Dwight, LeBron, and Wade have been playing this well for years, and Durant is one year up on Rose.

Let him EARN his spot in the top 5 players. Don't just give it to him for one great season.

Ok, fine. But don't tell me it's not even debatable (I'm talking mostly about Durant, Dirk, and Kobe and THIS season and onwards obviously) when Rose had the same numbers as them.

And can we stop with this one year thing. How often have you seen a 22 year old NBA athletic freak who was considered to have immense potential from day one, with a great work ethic, very stable, all of a sudden drop off after season 3? Sounds more like excuses than anything. This isn't football or baseball where a RB, QB, pitcher etc can have a very streaky year and then suck the next. This doesn't happen in basketball with such a large sample size. It's a pretty lame excuse if you ask me. Again, I'm not saying he's better than them, but he certainly deserves to me in the same conversation.

Sadds The Gr8
05-17-2011, 01:52 PM
i dont think JA Adande said derrick rose is the best in the league.....i think adande said its time to think of rose as the best in this league....

which is true....if you enter the top 5 discussion you are arguably the best player in the league...i am critical of the bulls and of rose but after every game it just seems like destiny for them this year....so much has happened for them and everything is going right for the bulls and rose has a real shot of winning it all this year...and if rose and the bulls beat the heat with wade james and bosh basically with no other all star you have to talk to him as one of the best

i dont consider rose a pure pg but he may be the best pg since he techincally plays the pg...i am a rose critic and rose has moved into my top 5

top 5 in the nba TODAY

wade
lebron
dwight
durant
rose

i doubt he meant it like that. because what's the point of making a statement/article like that if everyone (media, casual fans, TV analysts, etc...) already perceives him as a top 5 player anyways? Adande definitely thinks that Rose is the best player in the league and is trying to make a bold statement.

Kashmir13579
05-17-2011, 01:53 PM
Chris Paul doesn't have a supporting cast, Deron Williams got traded to a lottery team, and Rajon Rondo was playing with one arm.

I don't understand how the same commentators that go on and on about how stifling the Bulls' team defense is can say, in the same breath, that all the credit goes to Rose.

It amazes me as well. They come to the conclusion The Bulls defense is #1 through statistics; yet, the stats that show Derrick Rose arguably isn't even a top 5 player are ignored.

Hype=$

Kashmir13579
05-17-2011, 01:57 PM
How often have you seen a 22 year old NBA athletic freak who was considered to have immense potential from day one, with a great work ethic, very stable, all of a sudden drop off after season 3?

Steve Francis.

Although, his fall into obscurity was more of a slow nauseating process.

it doesn't matter, THIS year Rose's stats aren't good enough to land him in the top 5.

phi2134
05-17-2011, 01:59 PM
Sometimes players get too much credit by the media. Lets be honest, Derrick Rose is the best player on the best team in the NBA. The historic rise of the Bulls to the top was so quick that people forget D-Rose is only in his very early twenties. He has not even begun to show what he is capable of. He's definitely in the top five of the league, but is still getting better.

But think about this...
The Heat clearly have a better, more talented team than the Bulls, so if the Bulls beat the Heat this series how can you not say that Derrick Rose isn't better than Lebron and Wade?

The bulls easily have a better team than the heat. The bulls don't have as many superstars but they easily have far better role players and they actually have a bench. The heat's supporting cast is honestly pathetic, show me the stats showing me they have a better "team" and I'll show you how many times the heat bench actually had more than 10 points in a game.

smiddy012
05-17-2011, 02:10 PM
After the Bulls win the Heat series would have been a better time for the article.

There sure as hell though isn't another player you build your team around if you're starting from scratch. Because he is this good at age 22, and is more mentally mature/humble than easily half of the players in the league.

I mean come on guys, the best player in the league is being trumped by the young buck, you can tell by Lebrons actions/gestures that even Rose scares him. Rose has the momentum behind him compared to Lebron, but still hasn't proven enough be considered better. If the Bulls win the champ he's a top3 player, if he has too really carry them to the champ (like the first 2 playoff series) then he could very well be better than Lebron right now (yet Rose needs time to prove it - only a couple more weeks guys).

On the other hand, say the Bulls continue to dominate teams in this fashion - namely Rose isn't always out there on an island being the only facilitator and consistent offensive threat. This isn't the more likely scenario I would guess, but say the bulls beat Miami in 6 handily and then win the champ without really being challenged, what does that say about this bulls team and Rose? The fact that we needed Rose badly vs "scrub"'playoff teams but against the elite our other players stepped up, enabling him to not have to carry the entire load (thus becoming a more efficIent player)

Chacarron
05-17-2011, 02:13 PM
Lebron, Howard, Paul, Wade, Kobe, Dirk and Durant come to mind before Rose as best player in the NBA.

8kobe24
05-17-2011, 02:16 PM
If DRose can bring home that cookie, I am willing to agree that he is up there with Kobe:D. DRose, is a phenomenal player, and out of this pool of "next generation" talent, I see greatest potential in him. His willingness to devote his life in to developing his game will be what marks him "best player". Success will follow after hard work.

Hawkeye15
05-17-2011, 02:21 PM
This has been his PER and win shares the whole season. I think that's a good enough sample size. Especially for a player who will only get better.



Ok, fine. But don't tell me it's not even debatable (I'm talking mostly about Durant, Dirk, and Kobe and THIS season and onwards obviously) when Rose had the same numbers as them.

And can we stop with this one year thing. How often have you seen a 22 year old NBA athletic freak who was considered to have immense potential from day one, with a great work ethic, very stable, all of a sudden drop off after season 3? Sounds more like excuses than anything. This isn't football or baseball where a RB, QB, pitcher etc can have a very streaky year and then suck the next. This doesn't happen in basketball with such a large sample size. It's a pretty lame excuse if you ask me. Again, I'm not saying he's better than them, but he certainly deserves to me in the same conversation.

no, we can not. In order to enter the top 5 players, or the elite of the elite, you have to demonstrate that you can do it year in and year out. Which is why I said, sure, in 2 years, if Rose is still playing like an MVP candidate, he moves into the top 5. But there is no way I can put him in there right now, when guys who have had comparable seasons this year have been doing it since Rose was in high school.

Baller1
05-17-2011, 02:23 PM
After the Bulls win the Heat series would have been a better time for the article.

There sure as hell though isn't another player you build your team around if you're starting from scratch. Because he is this good at age 22, and is more mentally mature/humble than easily half of the players in the league.

I mean come on guys, the best player in the league is being trumped by the young buck, you can tell by Lebrons actions/gestures that even Rose scares him. Rose has the momentum behind him compared to Lebron, but still hasn't proven enough be considered better. If the Bulls win the champ he's a top3 player, if he has too really carry them to the champ (like the first 2 playoff series) then he could very well be better than Lebron right now (yet Rose needs time to prove it - only a couple more weeks guys).

Kevin Durant says hello.

Baller1
05-17-2011, 02:24 PM
This has been his PER and win shares the whole season. I think that's a good enough sample size. Especially for a player who will only get better.



Ok, fine. But don't tell me it's not even debatable (I'm talking mostly about Durant, Dirk, and Kobe and THIS season and onwards obviously) when Rose had the same numbers as them.

And can we stop with this one year thing. How often have you seen a 22 year old NBA athletic freak who was considered to have immense potential from day one, with a great work ethic, very stable, all of a sudden drop off after season 3? Sounds more like excuses than anything. This isn't football or baseball where a RB, QB, pitcher etc can have a very streaky year and then suck the next. This doesn't happen in basketball with such a large sample size. It's a pretty lame excuse if you ask me. Again, I'm not saying he's better than them, but he certainly deserves to me in the same conversation.

This is my take on the "one year" thing:


So what if Rose has an off year next year? Something like the year he had in '09-'10. Is he still elite because of this one incredible year? No. You gotta earn your stripes in professional leagues, and one step in that is consistency and longevity.

Like I said, there's no doubt in my mind that he will continue to improve and impress, but he's gotta prove it's not just a one year wonder before you throw him in with the Lebrons, Wades, Dwights, and Durants.


I'm not penalizing him in any way. Durant went through this same thing, only a year earlier... Some people wanted to crown him a top 3 player way too prematurely. He was expected to win MVP, get a top 2 seed, make a deep playoff run, etc, etc. Realistically, he needed to prove himself among the elite. Last year was his audition, this year was his first show.

Now it's Rose's turn. This was his audition year to be anointed an elite NBA player. He passed with flying colors. Now, we must wait. We wait until next year to determine whether or not his audition was a fluke, or whether he's here to stay among the elite.

If he gets his scoring efficiency up a bit, gets his assists up around 9, and continues to lead his team to a top seed... He will have a legitimate shot of cracking the top 5.

Hawkeye15
05-17-2011, 02:27 PM
In the 86-87' season, Michael Jordan led the league in win shares, and PER. Did anyone consider him better than Magic or Bird? Hell no.

Rose must keep doing this another couple of years before he gets in the LeBron/Dwight/Wade/Dirk/CP3/Kobe area guys. And he has Durant one season ahead of him with peak stats. He will need to wait until Kobe and possibly CP3 with the knee fall off to climb in there.

I think JB put it perfect. In his prime, Rose will be a top 5 player, with maybe a season or two in which you could argue top 3. And that is coming from a Bulls fan that I respect.

MJ-BULLS
05-17-2011, 02:28 PM
Ill admit, Rose isn't the best player in the nba, but he does have a significant impact on the game like a lebron or KD. statistically he isnt that far behind them.

With all that said, I think melo is a good player in all, im not hating on him, but how could some people say melo is better than Rose. :laugh2:

Baller1
05-17-2011, 02:31 PM
Ill admit, Rose isn't the beat player in the nba, but he does have a significant impact on the game like a lebron or KD. statistically he isnt that far behind them.

With all that said, I think melo is a good player in all, im not hating on him, but how could some people say melo is better than Rose. :laugh2:

But, but, but... He scores a lot and made the Nuggets relevant again!

Hawkeye15
05-17-2011, 02:31 PM
Ill admit, Rose isn't the beat player in the nba, but he does have a significant impact on the game like a lebron or KD. statistically he isnt that far behind them.

With all that said, I think melo is a good player in all, im not hating on him, but how could some people say melo is better than Rose. :laugh2:

I think Melo gets some credit due to the fact that he has been a prominent wing scorer for years, and a fixture on the all star team, etc. But there is no argument that Rose had a better season this year than Melo ever has.

MJ-BULLS
05-17-2011, 02:35 PM
I think Melo gets some credit due to the fact that he has been a prominent wing scorer for years, and a fixture on the all star team, etc. But there is no argument that Rose had a better season this year than Melo ever has.

Yes, that is why.

daricoliver
05-17-2011, 02:39 PM
When MJ came into the league, he immediately trended into the conversation along with Magic and Bird. Everyone knew that if he continued the way he was playing, he would eventually be mentioned with Magic and Bird and then eventually he even exceeded them. While I am not comparing Rose and MJ as far as players (there is little comparison) I will say the situation is comparable (not exact by any stretch but still comparable) Rose won the Rookie of the Year in his first year, was an all star in his second year, was an MVP in his third year. He is trending in the right direction and deserves to be in the discussion for the best player in the league. While I do not have him one or two, how can you not have him in that discussion.

D Roses Bulls
05-17-2011, 02:40 PM
In the 86-87' season, Michael Jordan led the league in win shares, and PER. Did anyone consider him better than Magic or Bird? Hell no.

Rose must keep doing this another couple of years before he gets in the LeBron/Dwight/Wade/Dirk/CP3/Kobe area guys. And he has Durant one season ahead of him with peak stats. He will need to wait until Kobe and possibly CP3 with the knee fall off to climb in there.

I think JB put it perfect. In his prime, Rose will be a top 5 player, with maybe a season or two in which you could argue top 3. And that is coming from a Bulls fan that I respect.

This is what I am not getting. CP3? what has he done? been kicked out of the playoffs in the 1st and second round every year of his career. his numbers have pretty much declined for the last couple years. has cp ever won an mvp award? hornets just got beat again this year in the first round. pretty much every single analyst including the guys from TNT who I respect a whole lot more than say a john hollinger because they are usually right have anointed rose as the best pg in the NBA and as steve kerr even said the other day he thinks rose is one of the top 3 players in the world and if you look at the head to heads,rose pretty much always out played cp every time they have played and rose has never ever lost to cp since he has been in the league. As much as I respect Kobe, he is on a decline. he has more over all talent and just was swept by a team that many including you didnt think would make it out of the first round. kobe is still real good, but kobe isn't kobe no more. Dirk...... I'll give Dirk a pass cause he has carried the mavericks this year, has won an MVP and has made it to the finals.

nickdymez
05-17-2011, 02:43 PM
I think Melo gets some credit due to the fact that he has been a prominent wing scorer for years, and a fixture on the all star team, etc. But there is no argument that Rose had a better season this year than Melo ever has.

Melo's best season = 29, 6, 3

Rose's best season = 25, 7, 4

Pretty much the same huh?

Baller1
05-17-2011, 02:45 PM
Melo's best season = 29, 6, 3

Rose's best season = 25, 7, 4

Pretty much the same huh?

Those per game stats are cute...

Hawkeye15
05-17-2011, 02:45 PM
This is what I am not getting. CP3? what has he done? been kicked out of the playoffs in the 1st and second round every year of his career. his numbers have pretty much declined for the last couple years. has cp ever won an mvp award? hornets just got beat again this year in the first round. pretty much every single analyst including the guys from TNT who I respect a whole lot more than say a john hollinger because they are usually right have anointed rose as the best pg in the NBA and as steve kerr even said the other day he thinks rose is one of the top 3 players in the world and if you look at the head to heads,rose pretty much always out played cp every time they have played and rose has never ever lost to cp since he has been in the league. As much as I respect Kobe, he is on a decline. he has more over all talent and just was swept by a team that many including you didnt think would make it out of the first round. kobe is still real good, but kobe isn't kobe no more. Dirk...... I'll give Dirk a pass cause he has carried the mavericks this year, has won an MVP and has made it to the finals.


you mean the same analysts who were saying, "Chris Paul reminding everyone that he is still the best PG in the world" during the Lakers series?

Just because they are analysts doesn't mean they don't flip and flop like fans do.

CP3 has had zip help. So we now have to move onto the player. Rose will probably never touch the seasons Paul had before the knee injury, and he has been doing it his whole career as well.

I am simply saying, for me, there is no way Rose moves into the discussion of the elite of the elite after one breakout season. The guys up top have been doing it for a long time. I don't see how that isn't fair. I am not discrediting Rose's great season. I am simply saying the very best, do it year in and year out. Prove it Rose.

Eagles4Lyfe
05-17-2011, 02:45 PM
Ya J.A adande hahahahah people believe actually take this joker serious??
Like jockrider said let him become the best at his position first

SteBO
05-17-2011, 02:46 PM
Melo's best season = 29, 6, 3

Rose's best season = 25, 7, 4

Pretty much the same huh?

Where did that lead 'Melo? Another first round exit. Rose is clearly having a better season than 'Melo's best by far.

D1JM
05-17-2011, 02:46 PM
rose isnt above cp3, yet. he is getting there, but he still has to get better in certain things. rose is probably a top 10 player, roaming around 8-10

Hawkeye15
05-17-2011, 02:47 PM
Melo's best season = 29, 6, 3

Rose's best season = 25, 7, 4

Pretty much the same huh?

dig deeper than per game numbers dude. Seriously, at this point you should know better

Gibby23
05-17-2011, 02:48 PM
In the 86-87' season, Michael Jordan led the league in win shares, and PER. Did anyone consider him better than Magic or Bird? Hell no. Rose must keep doing this another couple of years before he gets in the LeBron/Dwight/Wade/Dirk/CP3/Kobe area guys. And he has Durant one season ahead of him with peak stats. He will need to wait until Kobe and possibly CP3 with the knee fall off to climb in there.

I think JB put it perfect. In his prime, Rose will be a top 5 player, with maybe a season or two in which you could argue top 3. And that is coming from a Bulls fan that I respect.

Back in 86 they based it more on team sucess and rings. They didn't have the internet where you could look all this stuff up and if they did, you would be the first one to say Jordan was better than Bird and magic in 86-87.

Gators123
05-17-2011, 02:48 PM
Melo's best season = 29, 6, 3

Rose's best season = 25, 7, 4

Pretty much the same huh?

lol

nickdymez
05-17-2011, 02:49 PM
dig deeper than per game numbers dude. Seriously, at this point you should know better

Until i start seeing people other than people on psd and other internet sites use advanced stats to argue a players worth, im gonna do it the old fashioned way. I saw you mention something about Jordan's advanced stats in 86 or something. Did they even use that then?

Gators123
05-17-2011, 02:50 PM
Until i start seeing people other than people on psd and other internet sites use advanced stats to argue a players worth, im gonna do it the old fashioned way. I saw you mention something about Jordan's advanced stats in 86 or something. Did they even use that then?

Even NBA.com is starting to use advanced stats...

http://www.mysynergysports.com/

http://www.nba.com/statscube/

sargon21
05-17-2011, 02:50 PM
First of all, the BUlls beat the HEAT b/c of Noah, Gibson, and Boozer... NOT b/c of Rose.

Second of all, I will start to discuss the possibility of Rose as the best player in the league when he becomes a two way player like Lebron and others. It's easy to be efficient on offense when you don't have to expend energy on defense. (Trust me...I know... Thats how I play these days. It is much harder to be good on offense when you are exhausted from chasing around players on the defensive end).

Do you watch the games?

Rose is very good defensively.

Like seriously, come on.

mikealike305
05-17-2011, 02:51 PM
LeBron
Wade
Howard
CP3
Durant
Kobe
Rose
top 10, and we could see him in the top 5 in the next couple of years.... but hes NOT the best

tbone2171
05-17-2011, 02:51 PM
Who the f is JA Adande?

nickdymez
05-17-2011, 02:51 PM
lol

Are you laughing at me because i dont use advance stats either? Well then hardy har har @ me. Like i always say to you people, i watch NBA games, i dont research them on the internet.

Hawkeye15
05-17-2011, 02:54 PM
Back in 86 they based it more on team sucess and rings. They didn't have the internet where you could look all this stuff up and if they did, you would be the first one to say Jordan was better than Bird and magic in 86-87.

the point is, the new kid on the block was CLEARLY as good as the legends playing in the league, but nobody would have admitted to such.

Baller1
05-17-2011, 02:54 PM
Are you laughing at me because i dont use advance stats either? Well then hardy har har @ me. Like i always say to you people, i watch NBA games, i dont research them on the internet.

You're right. None of us actually watch basketball games. We just like to talk about them and look at numbers.

Tarheels23
05-17-2011, 02:54 PM
Where did that lead 'Melo? Another first round exit. Rose is clearly having a better season than 'Melo's best by far.

In Anthony's defense, he did take his team just two years ago to the conference finals (a conference that was considered superior to the East by a wide margin). They lost to the eventual champs in 6 games and I'm pretty sure he lead his team in scoring every game during that series (not 100% sure)

Hawkeye15
05-17-2011, 02:55 PM
Until i start seeing people other than people on psd and other internet sites use advanced stats to argue a players worth, im gonna do it the old fashioned way. I saw you mention something about Jordan's advanced stats in 86 or something. Did they even use that then?

every GM in the league has advanced statisticians on the payroll dude. Many of the media use them. Don't be the last one onboard!

nickdymez
05-17-2011, 02:57 PM
You're right. None of us actually watch basketball games. We just like to talk about them and look at numbers.

Looks like you took offense to that like im specifically talking about you. It was a generalization of some of the people on this site. Everything is "per" and "win shares". A lot of people don't really seem to talk basketball here..

Gibby23
05-17-2011, 02:58 PM
If he wins a ring this year with finals MVP, along with his MVP, and his other stats that are comparable and some better than the greats of today, I would put him at 1. Lebron has shown us great stats in every advanced stat categories and hasn't led his team to a ring yet. If rose can do it, he is #1.

nickdymez
05-17-2011, 03:00 PM
every GM in the league has advanced statisticians on the payroll dude. Many of the media use them. Don't be the last one onboard!

I guess. but that seems like huge contradiction because almost every team wanted melo or james. But according to advance stats, melo isnt a good NBA basketball player.. He just puts up 29 points a game and grabs almost 7 rebounds. Thats all. Im just old fashioned man.. People did a pretty good job at judging talent in the NBA long before advance stats.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
05-17-2011, 03:02 PM
His list isn't unreasonable...

Lol are you serious... Rose isn't even the best player @ his position how is he the best in the League? :confused:

TheRunKiller
05-17-2011, 03:02 PM
damn the haters come out when a story like this comes out...people are scurred

best player in league? no but he has to be a top 5 player

Baller1
05-17-2011, 03:03 PM
Looks like you took offense to that like im specifically talking about you. It was a generalization of some of the people on this site. Everything is "per" and "win shares". A lot of people don't really seem to talk basketball here..

Well the way you put it makes it seem like those who integrate advanced statistics into their evaluations don't watch the games.

Advanced stats are the future, and pretty much the present at this point. You're going to have to accept them eventually, so you might as well familiarize yourself with them as soon as possible.

Hawkeye15
05-17-2011, 03:03 PM
I guess. but that seems like huge contradiction because almost every team wanted melo or james. But according to advance stats, melo isnt a good NBA basketball player.. He just puts up 29 points a game and grabs almost 7 rebounds. Thats all. Im just old fashioned man.. People did a pretty good job at judging talent in the NBA long before advance stats.

Melo is a very good NBA player, and any team would benefit from having him. But he isn't the elite of the elite, despite those per game numbers. But I am pretty damn sure that any top 15 player in their mid 20's that has become available is going to cause a stir. Hell, teams would line up immediately if Love was available. Doesn't mean he is elite.

And dude, as I have said many times. If you don't watch the games, and tape, you are talking out your butt if you use only advanced stats to evaluate. They are simply a new tool that can be used to evaluate even better. But nothing can honestly replace watching the game, it can just add to it, you know what I mean?

nickdymez
05-17-2011, 03:03 PM
But on topic. I think this year Rose has proven himself to at least be top 3 in the league. Its hard to say someone is the clear cut number 1 player in the league..

Baller1
05-17-2011, 03:04 PM
I guess. but that seems like huge contradiction because almost every team wanted melo or james. But according to advance stats, melo isnt a good NBA basketball player.. He just puts up 29 points a game and grabs almost 7 rebounds. Thats all. Im just old fashioned man.. People did a pretty good job at judging talent in the NBA long before advance stats.

Of course people want Melo, he's an incredible basketball player.

Just curious, what makes you think advanced stats portray Melo as a bad player?

RIPSweetness34
05-17-2011, 03:07 PM
let him become the best player at his position first.

Already is

nickdymez
05-17-2011, 03:08 PM
Melo is a very good NBA player, and any team would benefit from having him. But he isn't the elite of the elite, despite those per game numbers. But I am pretty damn sure that any top 15 player in their mid 20's that has become available is going to cause a stir. Hell, teams would line up immediately if Love was available. Doesn't mean he is elite.

And dude, as I have said many times. If you don't watch the games, and tape, you are talking out your butt if you use only advanced stats to evaluate. They are simply a new tool that can be used to evaluate even better. But nothing can honestly replace watching the game, it can just add to it, you know what I mean?

No, i completely understand what your saying. I'll start looking into it, but honestly i think that it would take away from the experience of watching a player play. I coach high school ball and i love just watching players play out there with no sort of jade on my part. But thats me. To each is own. To address the other guy that said i should familiarize myself with it, im not a GM so i dont feel that i do. I'll continue to do it the way i do it.

Baller1
05-17-2011, 03:09 PM
Already is

Nope, not yet.

JordansBulls
05-17-2011, 03:10 PM
Back in 86 they based it more on team sucess and rings. They didn't have the internet where you could look all this stuff up and if they did, you would be the first one to say Jordan was better than Bird and magic in 86-87.

Magic in 87 was better he won league and finals mvp, Jordan and Bird were probably equivalent. Jordan took over best player in 1988 and was the best till 1998 when he played full seasons.

PapelbonLester
05-17-2011, 03:10 PM
Already is

Says a Bulls fan.....you think hes the best passer and deffending PG in the League? Your on drugs bro. Rose is fun to watch does that make him a good passer...no. Hes a point Guard he should be a pass first player. Yet he dribbles down and shoots without making 1 pass sometimes. Chris Paul is the best PG in the league. And will be untill he retires. **** stats. If you watch games you know who the best PG is

RIPSweetness34
05-17-2011, 03:10 PM
Rose isn't even top 5. People are living in the moment.

1.Lebron
2.Howard
3.Wade
4.Kobe.
5.Paul
Durrant
Dirk
Melo
Williams

Rose coule be interchangable with Melo and Williams.

Stop living in the moment. Rose is arguablly top 10, not top 5.

So sick of the ignorance. Rose has done more in 3 years then just about every player u have up here.

nickdymez
05-17-2011, 03:10 PM
Of course people want Melo, he's an incredible basketball player.

Just curious, what makes you think advanced stats portray Melo as a bad player?

I dont particularly think so, im just going off what was said previously on this site... I dont even look at advanced stats man..

allSUAVE
05-17-2011, 03:10 PM
Rose is such a humble guy just a good kid all around, so J.A Just shut the **** up

TheRunKiller
05-17-2011, 03:10 PM
Already is

sure is :nod:

TheRunKiller
05-17-2011, 03:11 PM
Nope, not yet.

let me guess you think westbrook is?

mikealike305
05-17-2011, 03:13 PM
So sick of the ignorance. Rose has done more in 3 years then just about every player u have up here.

lmao

RIPSweetness34
05-17-2011, 03:13 PM
Nope, not yet.

Well I would say all those people who get paid for their opinions on the matter dont know anything then and somebody should pay u for yours since your argument is "nope, not yet." Such a powerful argument at that. And the fact he was the only player in the top 10 in pts and assists doesnt mean anything either. Im done with these arguments, anyone who says otherwise has nothing to base their opinion off of except advanced stats. So many monkies on this site put too much into that. U want to think otherwise, fine, but u would be wrong. Rose absolutely destroyed Paul and Williams this year when they played each other. Look at the numbers... And those are the only 2 close to him.

PapelbonLester
05-17-2011, 03:14 PM
lmao

:clap:....People seriously RIDE Rose's dick now. Its hilarious. Hes just like Iverson. A score first pass later PG who's all about winning

TheRunKiller
05-17-2011, 03:14 PM
lmao

at least he's working on his game putting work in and trying to improve his game unlike lebron who is just worried about the media and going to night clubs

allSUAVE
05-17-2011, 03:14 PM
It Amaze me that people automatically come at a user because he have his own opinion and try to justify it with advanced stats

Rose is not a top 10 player if you judge by W/S and plus minus

PapelbonLester
05-17-2011, 03:16 PM
Well I would say all those people who get paid for their opinions on the matter dont know anything then and somebody should pay u for yours since your argument is "nope, not yet." Such a powerful argument at that. And the fact he was the only player in the top 10 in pts and assists doesnt mean anything either. Im done with these arguments, anyone who says otherwise has nothing to base their opinion off of except advanced stats. So many monkies on this site put too much into that. U want to think otherwise, fine, but u would be wrong. Rose absolutely destroyed Paul and Williams this year when they played each other. Look at the numbers... And those are the only 2 close to him.

Rose is a Scorer.....Paul is the best ball handler/passer. Dwill is just a ***** and is deffently no where close to on the level as Paul/Rose

RIPSweetness34
05-17-2011, 03:16 PM
lmao

Not sure why u are laughing, if he wins it this year then he has done more than both Wade and Lebron. Wade would have the same amount of rings with no MVP. Wade was also Derricks age when he got drafted, which means Rose is lightyears ahead of where Wade was at at this point in his life. Wade was still playing at Marquette.

RIPSweetness34
05-17-2011, 03:18 PM
Rose is a Scorer.....Paul is the best ball handler/passer. Dwill is just a ***** and is deffently no where close to on the level as Paul/Rose

Clearly, he is both.

Gibby23
05-17-2011, 03:19 PM
Says a Bulls fan.....you think hes the best passer and deffending PG in the League? Your on drugs bro. Rose is fun to watch does that make him a good passer...no. Hes a point Guard he should be a pass first player. Yet he dribbles down and shoots without making 1 pass sometimes. Chris Paul is the best PG in the league. And will be untill he retires. **** stats. If you watch games you know who the best PG is

Why? Because you think so? He is a PG and is the clear leader of that team. The Leader of the team that doesn't have a consistent 2nd option. He finds the other hot hand every night. He is 3 games away from the finals.

Gibby23
05-17-2011, 03:20 PM
Rose is a Scorer.....Paul is the best ball handler/passer. Dwill is just a ***** and is deffently no where close to on the level as Paul/Rose

Yes he is.

RIPSweetness34
05-17-2011, 03:21 PM
It Amaze me that people automatically come at a user because he have his own opinion and try to justify it with advanced stats

Rose is not a top 10 player if you judge by W/S and plus minus

And it amazes me that people put so much stock into advanced stats and not winning games, because when it comes down to it, winning games is all that matters. Im not mad u have an opinion, Im mad that the only thing u have to hang ur opinion on is advanced stats bc D Rose has **** on every other reason people can come up with for him not being one of the best in the league. Open ur eyes and watch the game, then u can see the impact he has on his team and the game.

jockrider
05-17-2011, 03:21 PM
But on topic. I think this year Rose has proven himself to at least be top 3 in the league. Its hard to say someone is the clear cut number 1 player in the league..

your avatar looks dumb since the lakers getting swept

mikealike305
05-17-2011, 03:21 PM
at least he's working on his game putting work in and trying to improve his game unlike lebron who is just worried about the media and going to night clubs

we have no idea (well idk what u know so i have no idea) what they do on their off time. or how works harder.

all i know is Rose is not better than Lebron.... Rose isnt even top 5 (or top ten)

can he be? yes. is he? no.

if he works so hard like u say then he'll prove us all wrong one day. i'll wait

tredigs
05-17-2011, 03:22 PM
What happened when Rose played on Durant's team this summer while he (and everyone else) road coattails to Gold?

I could see this type of comment being non facepalm worthy if he had already dominated the Heat nearly single-handedly on route to the Finals MVP - but this is a long ways away at this point.

I think he's a great/special player, but I personally don't think he even has a great case for leagues best PG - let alone best player.

People caught in the moment as usual. If Lebron or Wade have their usual brilliant games in game 1 (which make no mistake they will in many games coming up this series), then there's a ZERO percent chance Adande comes out with this article.

Frankly, it's a joke to consider him the leagues best. First make me a great argument that he's better than KD (you can't), then we can work on the rest.

Edit: Think of it this way, is there any one here who would claim that Rose would be the #1 option (not to mention a lesser defender) on a team that started him - Wade - Lebron/Durant - Amare - Howard?

Baller1
05-17-2011, 03:22 PM
I dont particularly think so, im just going off what was said previously on this site... I dont even look at advanced stats man..

Fair enough. Well to clear it up for you, advanced stats don't suggest that Melo isn't a good player. Rather, they show that he's a bit overrated by the general fan in some cases.

Cano4prez
05-17-2011, 03:23 PM
Not a chance

RIPSweetness34
05-17-2011, 03:23 PM
Says a Bulls fan.....you think hes the best passer and deffending PG in the League? Your on drugs bro. Rose is fun to watch does that make him a good passer...no. Hes a point Guard he should be a pass first player. Yet he dribbles down and shoots without making 1 pass sometimes. Chris Paul is the best PG in the league. And will be untill he retires. **** stats. If you watch games you know who the best PG is

I do watch games, and I see what Rose does to teams on a nightly basis, and he is only getting better. Rose does what his team needs him to do, Paul does what he can. Rose wins, Paul does not.

allSUAVE
05-17-2011, 03:24 PM
And it amazes me that people put so much stock into advanced stats and not winning games, because when it comes down to it, winning games is all that matters. Im not mad u have an opinion, Im mad that the only thing u have to hang ur opinion on is advanced stats bc D Rose has **** on every other reason people can come up with for him not being one of the best in the league. Open ur eyes and watch the game, then u can see the impact he has on his team and the game.

this I Agree w/ this

STATS LIE, Derick had the best season this year and the stats dont have it that way ENOUGH SAID

Baller1
05-17-2011, 03:26 PM
Well I would say all those people who get paid for their opinions on the matter dont know anything then and somebody should pay u for yours since your argument is "nope, not yet." Such a powerful argument at that. And the fact he was the only player in the top 10 in pts and assists doesnt mean anything either. Im done with these arguments, anyone who says otherwise has nothing to base their opinion off of except advanced stats. So many monkies on this site put too much into that. U want to think otherwise, fine, but u would be wrong. Rose absolutely destroyed Paul and Williams this year when they played each other. Look at the numbers... And those are the only 2 close to him.

Last year Durant was the first player since Michael Jordan to average at least 30 points while maintaining a ts% above 60%... I guess Durant is better than everyone in the league, huh?

Rose being top 10 in scoring and assists doesn't make him the best PG, sorry.

TheRunKiller
05-17-2011, 03:26 PM
And it amazes me that people put so much stock into advanced stats and not winning games, because when it comes down to it, winning games is all that matters. Im not mad u have an opinion, Im mad that the only thing u have to hang ur opinion on is advanced stats bc D Rose has **** on every other reason people can come up with for him not being one of the best in the league. Open ur eyes and watch the game, then u can see the impact he has on his team and the game.

:clap:

mikealike305
05-17-2011, 03:29 PM
Not sure why u are laughing, if he wins it this year then he has done more than both Wade and Lebron. Wade would have the same amount of rings with no MVP. Wade was also Derricks age when he got drafted, which means Rose is lightyears ahead of where Wade was at at this point in his life. Wade was still playing at Marquette.

im laughing cuz your argument is bias and dumb.

1, Wade and Lebron werent the only ones on that list, hence why the your whole argument is dumb. also shows your hate against the heat.

2, "ifhe wins it this year then he has done more than both Wade and Lebron."

and this is why its bias. that "IF" to start that statement makes everything after completly irrelevent

3. im pretty sure kobe is on that list....... l'll leave it at that.

Double_R
05-17-2011, 03:30 PM
He's not even the best at his position, let alone better than Lebron, Dwight, Wade, Kobe and Durant.

jockrider
05-17-2011, 03:32 PM
And it amazes me that people put so much stock into advanced stats and not winning games, because when it comes down to it, winning games is all that matters. Im not mad u have an opinion, Im mad that the only thing u have to hang ur opinion on is advanced stats bc D Rose has **** on every other reason people can come up with for him not being one of the best in the league. Open ur eyes and watch the game, then u can see the impact he has on his team and the game.

translation= advance stats don't cater to my all time fav player and because of this i don't care for it.

gsgs49
05-17-2011, 03:33 PM
So sick of the ignorance. Rose has done more in 3 years then just about every player u have up here.

So sick of the homerism.I feel bad for the good bulls fans on this site.

allSUAVE
05-17-2011, 03:35 PM
So sick of the homerism.I feel bad for the good bulls fans on this site.

HOMER?? Aiant you the kid that said Dirk is better than Melo and STAT so he cant have his own opinion??

who are you ?? your opinion dont mean more than any other user on here

D1JM
05-17-2011, 03:36 PM
nah. rose isnt the best pg. you can argue of him being top 3 and surely top 5, but the top pg no. he's still barely 22 and will get better.

Double_R
05-17-2011, 03:37 PM
HOMER?? Aiant you the kid that said Dirk is better than Melo and STAT so he cant have his own opinion??

Dirk is better than Melo and Stat. I don't even like the Mavs and I know that.

Rose is a legit player in the making, but all this premature praise is making non bulls fans dislike and discount him as a player.

He is top 8 and can be argued into top 5 or 6. He has one season as an elite player, give the guy a chance to be good before the proclaiming.

D1Rose above me just said it perfectly, he's 22 give him a chance

Wrigheyes4MVP
05-17-2011, 03:38 PM
Rose is sooo underrated by non-Bulls fans in this forum.

I admit that I used to be one of the Rose haters, but he has arrived this year, and for me to not put him in the top 5 would be just wrong.

He is certainly the best PG for sure, and obviously deserved the MVP. The Bulls are currently the favorites to win it all, and they don't even have another all star on the team.

That says a lot for Rose.

If he wins a title this year, being best player in the league is not out of the stretch.

allSUAVE
05-17-2011, 03:38 PM
Dirk is better than Melo and Stat. I don't even like the Mavs and I know that.

and who are you guy, Don't say nothing to me!! your a nobody

only GOD is an expert

jockrider
05-17-2011, 03:39 PM
HOMER?? Aiant you the kid that said Dirk is better than Melo and STAT so he cant have his own opinion??

who are you ?? your opinion dont mean more than any other user on here

dirk is better than them:confused:

Baller1
05-17-2011, 03:40 PM
Rose is sooo underrated by non-Bulls fans in this forum.

I admit that I used to be one of the Rose haters, but he has arrived this year, and for me to not put him in the top 5 would be just wrong.

He is certainly the best PG for sure, and obviously deserved the MVP. The Bulls are currently the favorites to win it all, and they don't even have another all star on the team.

That says a lot for Rose.

If he wins a title this year, being best player in the league is not out of the stretch.

So Kobe was the best player in the league last year since his team won it all? There's flawed logic. Winning the championship doesn't make you the best player.

allSUAVE
05-17-2011, 03:40 PM
dirk is better than them:confused:

:confused: are you GOD??

Baller1
05-17-2011, 03:41 PM
HOMER?? Aiant you the kid that said Dirk is better than Melo and STAT so he cant have his own opinion??

who are you ?? your opinion dont mean more than any other user on here

Dirk is better than both of them.

jockrider
05-17-2011, 03:42 PM
:confused: are you GOD??

who's that girl in your sig?

nickdymez
05-17-2011, 03:42 PM
your avatar looks dumb since the lakers getting swept

They didnt get swept by the heat.. Go play

allSUAVE
05-17-2011, 03:43 PM
who's that girl in your sig?

MY Ex GRR WHY

allSUAVE
05-17-2011, 03:44 PM
This Forums is jokes tho....I Love to argue as you can see :laugh:

jockrider
05-17-2011, 03:44 PM
MY Ex GRR WHY

no really who is she:D

Catfish1314
05-17-2011, 03:45 PM
Rose isn't even top 5. People are living in the moment.

1.Lebron
2.Howard
3.Wade
4.Kobe.
5.Paul
Durrant
Dirk
Melo
Williams

Rose coule be interchangable with Melo and Williams.

Stop living in the moment. Rose is arguablly top 10, not top 5.


Rose is easily better than Anthony; they are not interchangeable. Melo couldn't do anything with the Nuggets until Chauncey Billups came along.

In these playoffs, Rose was far better than Kobe, who became a complete chucker this year.

The rest of them are debatable. I will say when Deron Williams led the Jazz to the WCF a few years ago, he wasn't playing on the same level Rose is now.

allSUAVE
05-17-2011, 03:47 PM
no really who is she:D

Na she's by bestie

Double_R
05-17-2011, 03:49 PM
Rose is easily better than Anthony; they are not interchangeable. Melo couldn't do anything with the Nuggets until Chauncey Billups came along.

In these playoffs, Rose was far better than Kobe, who became a complete chucker this year.

The rest of them are debatable. I will say when Deron Williams led the Jazz to the WCF a few years ago, he wasn't playing on the same level Rose is now.

WOW... Kobe played less minutes all year and was better than Rose.

Anyway, Rose has been god awful from the field this post season, not sure what you are trying to proclaim.

ANyway, Kobe wasn't the problem on the Lakers, watch basketball before you type next time.

5ass
05-17-2011, 03:50 PM
rose is a definitely not the best, he is a great player but if i could choose to have any1 on my team, i would take atleast 3 players on my team before i take rose
howard
lebron
wade
paul
are all better than D-rose in my opinion, you can make an argument for kobe & D-will also, but for me i think D-rose has a bigger impact on the game.
having said that, i think D-rose will surpass some, if not all of the players on that list. lets not forget hes only 22
also i really think a lot of people on PSD overrate Kevin Durant, imo he is not better than Rose

RIPSweetness34
05-17-2011, 03:51 PM
im laughing cuz your argument is bias and dumb.

1, Wade and Lebron werent the only ones on that list, hence why the your whole argument is dumb. also shows your hate against the heat.

2, "ifhe wins it this year then he has done more than both Wade and Lebron."

and this is why its bias. that "IF" to start that statement makes everything after completly irrelevent

3. im pretty sure kobe is on that list....... l'll leave it at that.

Yea, I brought up Wade and Lebron because u, who are a Heat fan, were laughing at the idea that he is. Because u prob think both Lebron and Wade are better which is simply not true. Yea, I said if he wins it this year, because thats all he has to do to officially have done more in 3 years than any player on that list did including Kobe. And he would be doing it without Shaq. So my argument is not dumb. I also stated Rose has done more than ALMOST everyone on that list in 3 years. Learn how to read, I know the schooling in Miami isn't very good but you can better yourself.

5ass
05-17-2011, 03:52 PM
This Forums is jokes tho....I Love to argue as you can see :laugh:

nice titts

SteveNash
05-17-2011, 03:52 PM
If Rose is the best player in the league, does that make Deng the GOAT?

Catfish1314
05-17-2011, 03:53 PM
WOW... Kobe played less minutes all year and was better than Rose.

Anyway, Rose has been god awful from the field this post season, not sure what you are trying to proclaim.

ANyway, Kobe wasn't the problem on the Lakers, watch basketball before you type next time.

I never said Rose is better than Kobe. I said he was better in these playoffs and that Kobe was a chucker this year. Both are true.

Kobe wasn't the problem on the Lakers, but he was sure as hell part of it. He's been shooting them in and out of games for a while now. The Lakers were better this year when he was half scorer, half facilitator. Especially with Pau playing like a weener.

RIPSweetness34
05-17-2011, 03:57 PM
So sick of the homerism.I feel bad for the good bulls fans on this site.

Why is it homerism? He is the MVP and the best player on the team with the best record in the league. Why would it be homerism to argue for him as the best PG or possibly one of the best players in the league when D Will and Paul have done less? If I wasn't a Bulls fan people wouldn't have a problem with me defending him. I'm sick of the haters on this site who have run out of arguments as to why Rose isn't one of the best players in the league. They have resorted to advanced stats, and thats it because thats all they have.

Double_R
05-17-2011, 03:58 PM
I never said Rose is better than Kobe. I said he was better in these playoffs and that Kobe was a chucker this year. Both are true.

Kobe wasn't the problem on the Lakers, but he was sure as hell part of it. He's been shooting them in and out of games for a while now. The Lakers were better this year when he was half scorer, half facilitator. Especially with Pau playing like a weener.

I'm not saying that what you said about Rose being better than Melo isn't true, but saying that Kobe has been a chucker and that Rose hasn't been a chucker this postseason would be absurd. Pretty much every one of Rose's games has been 10-28, 11-27, and so on. When you score 30 pts on almost 30 shots, that is not impressive to say the least. Throw in another 5 TO and we are talking detrimental if we are talking about a bad defensive team which the Bulls aren't. How do you think that Noah gets all those offensive rebounds.

Yea Kobe basically took jumpers the entire Mavs series, no doubt, but he made a far better percentage of them than Rose.

gsgs49
05-17-2011, 04:00 PM
HOMER?? Aiant you the kid that said Dirk is better than Melo and STAT so he cant have his own opinion??

who are you ?? your opinion dont mean more than any other user on here

hahaha seriously? nobody outside knicks fans thinks that Melo or stoudemire are better than Dirk son.
Of course he can have an opinion but everyone knows he's wrong,every player on macc list has done more than Rose.
So your opinion should be realistic,if isn't then you're a homer.

For example a poster here keep posting how good his favorite player without giving any reasonable argument or stat to back up his opinion and the first letter of his username is 'a' and the last one is 'E' so that's make him a homer.

mikealike305
05-17-2011, 04:07 PM
Yea, I brought up Wade and Lebron because u, who are a Heat fan, were laughing at the idea that he is. Because u prob think both Lebron and Wade are better which is simply not true. Yea, I said if he wins it this year, because thats all he has to do to officially have done more in 3 years than any player on that list did including Kobe. And he would be doing it without Shaq. So my argument is not dumb. I also stated Rose has done more than ALMOST everyone on that list in 3 years. Learn how to read, I know the schooling in Miami isn't very good but you can better yourself.

so u seriously think rose is better than Lebron AND Wade?
and that Rose, a guy who although great, has spent 3 years in the NBA and ECF being the most hes advanced, has done more than kobe?
if yes, you are right. you dont have dumb argument, just flat out dont have an argument at all.
and if yes, this debate is over cuz there is no point in debating with blind people like u.
and once again, that is a big "IF" and that same "IF" is why your whole argument is off base, and irrelevent

Jewelz0376
05-17-2011, 04:07 PM
I never said Rose is better than Kobe. I said he was better in these playoffs and that Kobe was a chucker this year. Both are true.

Kobe wasn't the problem on the Lakers, but he was sure as hell part of it. He's been shooting them in and out of games for a while now. The Lakers were better this year when he was half scorer, half facilitator. Especially with Pau playing like a weener.

Yea he sure was "chucker" in the mavs series :rolleyes:

WSU Tony
05-17-2011, 04:09 PM
Why do Chicago fans always feel the need to "boost" Rose? Can't you be confident in what you see in him? Who cares what everyone else things.

Oh, and doesn't J.A. write for the Chicago Sun?

:laugh:

TylerSL
05-17-2011, 04:12 PM
1.Lebron
2.Wade
3.Howard
4.Kobe
5.Durant
6.CP3
7.Dirk
8.D-Will
9.Rose
10.Gasol

that is my top 10, Rose is not the best, but he is top 10

Fnom11
05-17-2011, 04:12 PM
I cant recall one game this playoffs where Kobe started "chucking" tbh

Fnom11
05-17-2011, 04:13 PM
Btw who is J.A. Adande? I've never heard of him before.

Tarheels23
05-17-2011, 04:15 PM
I never said Rose is better than Kobe. I said he was better in these playoffs and that Kobe was a chucker this year. Both are true.

Kobe wasn't the problem on the Lakers, but he was sure as hell part of it. He's been shooting them in and out of games for a while now. The Lakers were better this year when he was half scorer, half facilitator. Especially with Pau playing like a weener.

Kobe's playoff shot attempts per game- 18
Rose's playoff shot attempts per game- 23

RIPSweetness34
05-17-2011, 04:16 PM
hahaha seriously? nobody outside knicks fans thinks that Melo or stoudemire are better than Dirk son.
Of course he can have an opinion but everyone knows he's wrong,every player on macc list has done more than Rose.
So your opinion should be realistic,if isn't then you're a homer.

For example a poster here keep posting how good his favorite player without giving any reasonable argument or stat to back up his opinion and the first letter of his username is 'a' and the last one is 'E' so that's make him a homer.

Another example of someone not knowing how to read. I said, Rose has done more in 3 years than just about every player on that list has. Meaning, if you took all those players in the third year of their career and compared them to Rose at this point in his career he has done more. Which is absolutely true, and I would love to see u argue otherwise.

SteveNash
05-17-2011, 04:17 PM
Kobe's playoff shot attempts per game- 18
Rose's playoff shot attempts per game- 23

Yeah, but Rose shot a higher percentage! Oh wait...

PrettyBoyJ
05-17-2011, 04:17 PM
He's so far ahead of his time its scary.. He's on pace to prob be the best player in the league for awhile.. and he's only in his 3rd year.. with all do respect to Durant and other up an coming stars like Blake john wall.. D. Rose separated himself from them this year

RIPSweetness34
05-17-2011, 04:18 PM
Why do Chicago fans always feel the need to "boost" Rose? Can't you be confident in what you see in him? Who cares what everyone else things.

Oh, and doesn't J.A. write for the Chicago Sun?

:laugh:

Since when? JA works for ESPN

gsgs49
05-17-2011, 04:19 PM
Why is it homerism? He is the MVP and the best player on the team with the best record in the league. Why would it be homerism to argue for him as the best PG or possibly one of the best players in the league when D Will and Paul have done less? If I wasn't a Bulls fan people wouldn't have a problem with me defending him. I'm sick of the haters on this site who have run out of arguments as to why Rose isn't one of the best players in the league. They have resorted to advanced stats, and thats it because thats all they have.

First of all,you should realize if someone doesn't agree with you that doesn't make him a hater I'm not a bulls hater, I'm a mavs fan so I care less about the bulls and the teams in the east in general.

And I'm not a Rose hater he's amazing and I love to watch but I don't think that he's top 5 player and I don't think he's the best at his position.For me, Chris Paul still better defender,passer,shooter and much more efficient than Rose and overall he still the best PG in the league.

I'm fine if you argue it,nothing wrong with it but you should stay classy.
Calling another poster ignorant because he putted some players above Rose despite that every player on his list has an argument over Rose is unacceptable.I'm sick of some bulls fans trolling this site and bashing everyone who disagree with them.

I called you homer because you come here and bashed another poster,you could have argue it by using some arguments to prove that Rose is better than those players instead of calling him ignorant.

BIG worm
05-17-2011, 04:20 PM
In the 86-87' season, Michael Jordan led the league in win shares, and PER. Did anyone consider him better than Magic or Bird? Hell no.

Rose must keep doing this another couple of years before he gets in the LeBron/Dwight/Wade/Dirk/CP3/Kobe area guys. And he has Durant one season ahead of him with peak stats. He will need to wait until Kobe and possibly CP3 with the knee fall off to climb in there.

I think JB put it perfect. In his prime, Rose will be a top 5 player, with maybe a season or two in which you could argue top 3. And that is coming from a Bulls fan that I respect.

You just blew my mind hawkeye! Gotta say I agree with you. But honestly as a bulls fan, I dont even care. All I want is championships, get those and the accolades will follow.

mikealike305
05-17-2011, 04:23 PM
First of all,you should realize if someone doesn't agree with you that doesn't make him a hater I'm not a bulls hater, I'm a mavs fan so I care less about the bulls and the teams in the east in general.

And I'm not a Rose hater he's amazing and I love to watch but I don't think that he's top 5 player and I don't think he's the best at his position.For me, Chris Paul still better defender,passer,shooter and much more efficient than Rose and overall he still the best PG in the league.

I'm fine if you argue it,nothing wrong with it but you should stay classy.
Calling another poster ignorant because he putted some players above Rose despite that every player on his list has an argument over Rose is unacceptable.I'm sick of some bulls fans trolling this site and bashing everyone who disagree with them.

I called you homer because you come here and bashed another poster,you could have argue it by using some arguments to prove that Rose is better than those players instead of calling him ignorant.

that. :clap:

haggis
05-17-2011, 04:23 PM
Why do Chicago fans always feel the need to "boost" Rose? Can't you be confident in what you see in him? Who cares what everyone else things.

Oh, and doesn't J.A. write for the Chicago Sun?

:laugh:

He did in the early 90s, he works for the LA Times and ESPN now.

and I agree with the rest of your statement. It's become so pointless now, the kid is so humble and talented let his play/winning speak for itself.

RIPSweetness34
05-17-2011, 04:26 PM
First of all,you should realize if someone doesn't agree with you that doesn't make him a hater I'm not a bulls hater, I'm a mavs fan so I care less about the bulls and the teams in the east in general.

And I'm not a Rose hater he's amazing and I love to watch but I don't think that he's top 5 player and I don't think he's the best at his position.For me, Chris Paul still better defender,passer,shooter and much more efficient than Rose and overall he still the best PG in the league.

I'm fine if you argue it,nothing wrong with it but you should stay classy.
Calling another poster ignorant because he putted some players above Rose despite that every player on his list has an argument over Rose is unacceptable.I'm sick of some bulls fans trolling this site and bashing everyone who disagree with them.

I called you homer because you come here and bashed another poster,you could have argue it by using some arguments to prove that Rose is better than those players instead of calling him ignorant.

It's because I have argued with some of these guys all season. It's not like this is the first conversation about D Rose that has come up in the NBA forum. I get irritated explaining to people that there is more to the game then advanced stats. Heat fans in general are the first ones who pop up in these threads and start laughing and they have been beaten by us 4 times this year. Still no respect for this kid or what he has done. I will be the first to say when a player is awesome even if I hate them. People on this site refuse to give Rose the credit he deserves when he has done literally EVERYTHING up to this point to prove them wrong all season. To me, that is ignorant. I can't stand Lebron, but I would never be dumb enough to tell u he isn't one of the best players in the league.

Baller1
05-17-2011, 04:29 PM
He's so far ahead of his time its scary.. He's on pace to prob be the best player in the league for awhile.. and he's only in his 3rd year.. with all do respect to Durant and other up an coming stars like Blake john wall.. D. Rose separated himself from them this year

Separated himself from Durant? Um.. No.

nickdymez
05-17-2011, 04:30 PM
1.Lebron
2.Wade
3.Howard
4.Kobe
5.Durant
6.CP3
7.Dirk
8.D-Will
9.Rose
10.Gasol

that is my top 10, Rose is not the best, but he is top 10

Im sorry, but Melo is better than Gasol

jockrider
05-17-2011, 04:32 PM
He's so far ahead of his time its scary.. He's on pace to prob be the best player in the league for awhile.. and he's only in his 3rd year.. with all do respect to Durant and other up an coming stars like Blake john wall.. D. Rose separated himself from them this year

how? durant numbers are just as good and he's only older by a few days. playing in a tougher conf.