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JasonJohnHorn
05-15-2011, 08:01 PM
I'm not saying that he has, but rather I am putting the question to you all.

McGrady, in my book, was a better ball handler than Melo, but Melo was the better rebounder, and though McGrady has posted higher scoring averages, he also never played with high scorers like Amare and Iverson. Couple with that, Melo has plays run FOR him, not THROUGH him. McGrady was a point-forward, he brought the ball up. Melo let the point guard do that.

Durant, clearly a prolific scorer, and solid rebounder, is not the passer McGrady was, but is as capable a scorer, and a better rebounder than McGrady.

When Melo made it to the conference finals, many thought that milestone separated him from McGrady, who had never won a first round match-up. Durant has now officially won as may play-off series as the two combined! And in only four season.

Is it a matter of timing? Is it a matter of surrounding talent? Or is it a matter of what separates the winners from those who are simply all-stars?

Chronz
05-15-2011, 08:05 PM
Tmac wouldn't struggle as badly as durant and get locked down by a midget.


Melo is NOWHERE in this discussion.

JasonJohnHorn
05-15-2011, 08:09 PM
Tmac wouldn't struggle as badly as durant and get locked down by a midget.


Melo is NOWHERE in this discussion.

Chronz! I made this thread just for you bro! I knew you'd get in on it you Tracy-McGrady-Loving fan you!

PhillyFaninLA
05-15-2011, 08:15 PM
Melo is a outstanding offensive player that is deathly allergic to defense.

McGrady is a great scorer and decent all around player.

Durant is my choice because he can score with either of those guys, he makes players around him better because of the human being he is, he is truly selfless on a basketball court and players respond to that. He is also worthy a question like that when he hasn't grown into his potential yet.

llemon
05-15-2011, 08:16 PM
Since you asked, I have to tell you I don't really care.

The NBA is a game-to-game league

THE MTL
05-15-2011, 08:18 PM
I'm not saying that he has, but rather I am putting the question to you all.

McGrady, in my book, was a better ball handler than Melo, but Melo was the better rebounder, and though McGrady has posted higher scoring averages, he also never played with high scorers like Amare and Iverson. Couple with that, Melo has plays run FOR him, not THROUGH him. McGrady was a point-forward, he brought the ball up. Melo let the point guard do that.

Durant, clearly a prolific scorer, and solid rebounder, is not the passer McGrady was, but is as capable a scorer, and a better rebounder than McGrady.

When Melo made it to the conference finals, many thought that milestone separated him from McGrady, who had never won a first round match-up. Durant has now officially won as may play-off series as the two combined! And in only four season.

Is it a matter of timing? Is it a matter of surrounding talent? Or is it a matter of what separates the winners from those who are simply all-stars?

I think he has. I would consider Kevin Durant an ELITE NBA player. As far as legacy goes I would say no, because he's only been in the league for 4 years.

Baller1
05-15-2011, 08:19 PM
Durant and T-Mac is a close call at this point, although T-Mac was a better overall player.

Melo isn't on their level.

sweet-d
05-15-2011, 08:30 PM
He's definetly better than t-mac now if t-mac had never gotten injured but he did so it don't mean a damn thing.

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Hustlenomics
05-15-2011, 08:45 PM
I don't see how Durant passed T-mac

Geargo Wallace
05-15-2011, 08:46 PM
Melo who?

Punk
05-15-2011, 08:47 PM
Look, Melo turned that Nugget franchise into a 50 win team for 8 years since his was drafted there. That speaks for itself.

You do not surpass anyone until you get to the NBA Finals. When Durant makes it there then we can discuss this.

Fact is Durant didn't turn the Sonics/Thunder around until Westbrook and Harden joined.

llemon
05-15-2011, 08:50 PM
I don't see how Durant passed T-mac

He's the best player on a team that has gotten to the 2nd rd twice, and now to the Conf Finals?

drobe86
05-15-2011, 08:50 PM
Its a shame injuries derailed TMAC as a player. From 04-06 he was the most skilled player in the nba. Silky smooth, sweet shooting stroke, great passer, and just an incredible player. Injuries killed him. Melo hasn't done all that much. He got the nuggets to the western finals only to get stroked by LA. He's a solid scorer that plays no D, and hasn't taken his game to the next level. Durant is unbelievable, and what he's done at 22, 23 is unreal. He'll probably go down as a top 5 player ever barring injury..

drobe86
05-15-2011, 08:52 PM
Look, Melo turned that Nugget franchise into a 50 win team for 8 years since his was drafted there. That speaks for itself.

You do not surpass anyone until you get to the NBA Finals. When Durant makes it there then we can discuss this.

Fact is Durant didn't turn the Sonics/Thunder around until Westbrook and Harden joined.

Lol@ at him not turning arouond since Harden got there. Dude has had 1 1/2 good seasons. And he doesn't even avg. 15 ppg for his career. Hes a nice player off the bench, but dont act like he's some star. And Westbrook is a good player, but really screws his team up sometimes....

jockrider
05-15-2011, 08:55 PM
tmac was better than both, durant is only 22 so he can be in the discussion soon if he gets better. mello i doubt he ever reaches that level IMO.

Hustlenomics
05-15-2011, 09:00 PM
He's the best player on a team that has gotten to the 2nd rd twice, and now to the Conf Finals?

doesn't make him better than T-Mac..do you guys remember him on the Magic and Rockets?

Geargo Wallace
05-15-2011, 09:09 PM
Prime TMac > Prime Kobe

DeyAce
05-15-2011, 09:12 PM
T-Mac was better

llemon
05-15-2011, 09:14 PM
doesn't make him better than T-Mac..do you guys remember him on the Magic and Rockets?

Where the hell else would we remember McGrady from, the Raptors, the Knicks or the Pistons?

I do remember Tracy crying when he couldn't deliver a 1st rd game#7 victory AT HOME.

So, do you think I remember McGrady?

Crackadalic
05-15-2011, 09:18 PM
T-mac was just unreal back in his day. Yea he never got pass the 2nd round but overall Melo and KD can't touch T-mac game. He was just unreal at times

MELO 15
05-15-2011, 09:21 PM
Theres always going to be alot of Melo haters, I have become numb to it, Melo will win a chip b4 durant, because dallas is just to good this year, they will win it all this year, and when not if, but when the knicks get cp3, they will win it all, but than again, they will still take credit away from melo, and give to some one other than him, but thats life. Melo haters really kill me.

Chill_Will_24
05-15-2011, 09:25 PM
Durant is better than both

knicks_champ
05-15-2011, 09:27 PM
How is Melo not on their level?

MELO 15
05-15-2011, 09:29 PM
And for all those that day melo has no defense, hasnt been watching basketball, durant to me isnt a better defender than melo, snd offensively, melo is the better all around offensive player, heck, he is the best all around offensive player. I will agree that prime t mac was unreal, and say only that, he loses cred, because he never got out the first round, but right now, if i had to put money on it, i would say that melo wins a chip b4 durant

Sixerlover
05-15-2011, 09:30 PM
If he retired today, No. But the path he's on, without QUESTION

flea
05-15-2011, 09:33 PM
Hard to compare prime T-Mac with young Durant (he's only 22). But Durant already has 2 scoring titles and is a top 3 player in the NBA - again, at 22 years old. Melo has never been a top 3 player and T-Mac was only for a short period.

MELO 15
05-15-2011, 09:35 PM
And if melo were to see durant in the finals, id put money on melo all day, nuggets fans would attest to this, and even durant himself would attest to this, because when seeing each other on the court, its no surprise melo gets the best of him

Geargo Wallace
05-15-2011, 09:35 PM
Hard to compare prime T-Mac with young Durant (he's only 22). But Durant already has 2 scoring titles and is a top 3 player in the NBA - again, at 22 years old. Melo has never been a top 3 player and T-Mac was only for a short period.

top 3 SF

GiantsSwaGG
05-15-2011, 09:44 PM
Are you guys serious?

People bashing Melo because he went to 1 wc finals. The last time I checked T. Mac didn't play in none.

Melo defense is bad, ok but Durant d is just as bad maybe even worse.

1. T Mac

2. Melo

3. Durant

that's the order.

12to85
05-15-2011, 09:48 PM
Durant Prime will be sick. This guy is going to break some records over his career baring a set back................. Knock on wood

mzgrizz
05-15-2011, 09:51 PM
Come on now. Durant has had great games against us in the semis but an 11 point game 6 eliminates him from that contention

Savage Sunday
05-15-2011, 09:51 PM
I swear to you people on here have short memories.

First someone says Iverson was overrated and Rose is already better than Iverson as a player, and now we have another guy place Durant already above T-Mac.

TO to the CHI
05-15-2011, 09:51 PM
Look, Melo turned that Nugget franchise into a 50 win team for 8 years since his was drafted there. That speaks for itself.

You do not surpass anyone until you get to the NBA Finals. When Durant makes it there then we can discuss this.

Fact is Durant didn't turn the Sonics/Thunder around until Westbrook and Harden joined.

Look, I am not saying that Durant is clearly the best and I would give TMac the lead right now. However, your second paragraph is just stupid. Your argument is that Durant can't pass the others because he hasn't made the Finals, even though neither of the others have made the Finals and TMac has never made it out of the first round. That logic is ridiculous.

flea
05-15-2011, 09:52 PM
Are you guys serious?

People bashing Melo because he went to 1 wc finals. The last time I checked T. Mac didn't play in none.

Melo defense is bad, ok but Durant d is just as bad maybe even worse.

1. T Mac

2. Melo

3. Durant

that's the order.
Durant is a plus defender now. He was pretty bad in his first two seasons but he's been good this season, and looks like he'll only get better.

Savage Sunday
05-15-2011, 09:56 PM
top 3 SF
Exactly.

Durant isnt even a Top 5 player in the NBA, let alone Top 3.

When did Durant surpass Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Dwight, & Rose? Hes not even established himself as a more important superstar player than D-Will, CP3, Dirk, & Melo.



Durant Prime will be sick. This guy is going to break some records over his career baring a set back................. Knock on wood

Durant already is in his prime. The only thing you'll see is him eventually developing a back to the basket game as he gets older.

Set what record? Durant isnt going to be a 35 PPG scorer because thats not his game, he doesnt have the same aggressive approach to taking shots as Kobe, let alone his own teammate Westbrook.

John Walls Era
05-15-2011, 09:56 PM
Tmac's legacy is still greater. KD will surpass it but not yet. Tmac never had success in the playoff, but he was still a great player.

12to85
05-15-2011, 09:57 PM
only 22...if hes not the best now then he will soon be. Either way the kid is sick nasty with talent. Melo is to much of a puss to seize the moment when needed and Tmac doesnt have enough on the resume

Savage Sunday
05-15-2011, 10:01 PM
only 22...if hes not the best now then he will soon be. Either way the kid is sick nasty with talent. Melo is to much of a puss to seize the moment when needed and Tmac doesnt have enough on the resume

:rolleyes:

He'll be the best only after the other superstars age(Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Dwight).

& Melo is a puss afraid to seize the moment? You do realize he has made the 2nd most clutch shots in the league over the last 5 years, ahead of Kobe?

MELO 15
05-15-2011, 10:05 PM
Like melo tried to do with boston, with a bunch of nobodys right, and still could have won the game, had the knicks had some one other than jefferies taking that pass under neath the basket. Melo will win a chip b4 durant, mark my words

MELO 15
05-15-2011, 10:07 PM
Thank u Savage Sunday, and durant has been a part of that, seeing melo hit clutch buzzer beater shots after another, but people will continue to hate

flea
05-15-2011, 10:09 PM
Exactly.

Durant isnt even a Top 5 player in the NBA, let alone Top 3.

When did Durant surpass Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Dwight, & Rose? Hes not even established himself as a more important superstar player than D-Will, CP3, Dirk, & Melo.

Durant is already better than Kobe and Rose, not to mention those PGs, Dirk, and Melo. His D is better than all of those guys and he's a 2-time scoring champion. There's not really anything that any of them can do that Durant can't do better.

I can see taking Wade over Durant, but I personally wouldn't. So, at worst, he's a top 4 player. After these playoffs people are going to start wondering if he'll be better than Lebron next year already. He's very quietly become quite an accomplished NBA player at an early age.

bedford1829
05-15-2011, 10:13 PM
I don't undertstand how Melo gets so much hate here. If this post would've been held prior to the trade to the Knicks he would be represented a little differently.

All I know is Melo and Durant have taken their teams to the conference titles and if recall correctly TMac didn't have much luck with the rockets come playoff time.

Longevity wise melo performed at a very high level for more seasons than Durant and at least as many as TMAC.

Melo I even give a slight, SLIGHT, nod over mcgrady in the clutch.

I'm not making a case for any of the players cause to be honest I would take any of them but Im simply wondering why Melo is getting so much hate.

Savage Sunday
05-15-2011, 10:13 PM
Durant is already better than Kobe and Rose, not to mention those PGs, Dirk, and Melo. His D is better than all of those guys and he's a 2-time scoring champion. There's not really anything that any of them can do that Durant can't do better.

I can see taking Wade over Durant, but I personally wouldn't. So, at worst, he's a top 4 player. After these playoffs people are going to start wondering if he'll be better than Lebron next year already. He's very quietly become quite an accomplished NBA player at an early age.

Stopped reading here.

Saw the same thing last year when Durant won the scoring title and stopped seeing it after Artest locked him down.

History will repeat itself again.

Fans talk up Durant as being a superstar and better than Kobe Bryant, and then Marion/Stevenson locks down Durant and we wont hear about Durant again for awhile.

meloman1592
05-15-2011, 10:14 PM
T mac was the best player out of the three.
Melo REVIVED a franchise for all you haters!!
Durant has more to prove

Sadds The Gr8
05-15-2011, 10:14 PM
Melo shouldnt even be in the conversation. most overrated player in the league.

bedford1829
05-15-2011, 10:15 PM
Tmac's legacy is still greater. KD will surpass it but not yet. Tmac never had success in the playoff, but he was still a great player.

I respect your opinion but posseason performance falls at the top of the list when defining legacy in my and many people's opinions and both of these players have more of a playoff resume than McGrady.

GiantsSwaGG
05-15-2011, 10:16 PM
only 22...if hes not the best now then he will soon be. Either way the kid is sick nasty with talent. Melo is to much of a puss to seize the moment when needed and Tmac doesnt have enough on the resume

:facepalm:

Mc Lovin
05-15-2011, 10:16 PM
McGrady? I think Durant surpassed him as a rookie. I'd personally take Durant over Melo. You can't go wrong either way but, I like Durant better. He's a better shooter and he's a 6'10" SG/SF. How can you defend that.

bedford1829
05-15-2011, 10:17 PM
Melo shouldnt even be in the conversation. most overrated player in the league.

How can a perennial top 5 scorer, whose arguably top 3 in the league with the game on the line, who has his team in the playoffs every year be overrated. Just curious but he's had a pretty damn successful career by anyone's standards

Savage Sunday
05-15-2011, 10:19 PM
I don't undertstand how Melo gets so much hate here. If this post would've been held prior to the trade to the Knicks he would be represented a little differently.

All I know is Melo and Durant have taken their teams to the conference titles and if recall correctly TMac didn't have much luck with the rockets come playoff time.

Longevity wise melo performed at a very high level for more seasons than Durant and at least as many as TMAC.

Melo I even give a slight, SLIGHT, nod over mcgrady in the clutch.

I'm not making a case for any of the players cause to be honest I would take any of them but Im simply wondering why Melo is getting so much hate.

Melo gets so much hate because the NBA stopped promoting him after Stop Snitchin', and that treatment influences fan opinions.

Melo has always been a Top 10 player in the NBA capable of carrying a team on his back and staying healthy, but you wont see anyone even acknowledge it. The talking heads only acknowledge him as a scorer while suggesting hes a poor rebounder, poor defender, and a ballhog. Basically Bernard King of our generation, instead of a guy headed to the Hall of Fame. The "NBA fans" eat that up and say the same things.

MELO 15
05-15-2011, 10:20 PM
Melo shouldnt even be in the conversation. most overrated player in the league.

U my friend is the guy on the other end of that guys but, if u really mean what u are saying about melo, u truly know nothing about the game of basketball

bedford1829
05-15-2011, 10:20 PM
I don't care what any of you say but the melo-drama of this past season has soured a lot of peoples opinion of melo (I can understand it impacting your opinion of him as a person but not as a player)

sep11ie
05-15-2011, 10:21 PM
A prime TMac>>>Melo and >>Durant.

Savage Sunday
05-15-2011, 10:22 PM
How can a perennial top 5 scorer, whose arguably top 3 in the league with the game on the line, who has his team in the playoffs every year be overrated. Just curious but he's had a pretty damn successful career by anyone's standards

See my post above.

The media has made it clear that Carmelo is just Bernard King, and is only a scorer due to being on bad teams.

Melo has been to 8 straight Playoffs. Absolutely ridiculous hate he gets.

GiantsSwaGG
05-15-2011, 10:26 PM
Melo gets so much hate because the NBA stopped promoting him after Stop Snitchin', and that treatment influences fan opinions.

Melo has always been a Top 10 player in the NBA capable of carrying a team on his back and staying healthy, but you wont see anyone even acknowledge it. The talking heads only acknowledge him as a scorer while suggesting hes a poor rebounder, poor defender, and a ballhog. Basically Bernard King of our generation, instead of a guy headed to the Hall of Fame. The "NBA fans" eat that up and say the same things.

A poor rebounder are you serious?

He's the best offensive rebounder in the game and the second best rebounding sf in the game behind lebron.

People hate Melo but don't hate Kobe after what he's done in the pass.

Savage Sunday
05-15-2011, 10:26 PM
I don't care what any of you say but the melo-drama of this past season has soured a lot of peoples opinion of melo (I can understand it impacting your opinion of him as a person but not as a player)

Its been going on way before he asked out of what appeared to be a sinking ship in Denver.

Im glad hes now in New York and the NBA is forced to put him on display for the prime time audience to see his talent firsthand rather than seeing his stats and concluding hes a chucker for scoring so many points.

Kashmir13579
05-15-2011, 10:27 PM
Look, Melo turned that Nugget franchise into a 50 win team for 8 years since his was drafted there. That speaks for itself.

You do not surpass anyone until you get to the NBA Finals. When Durant makes it there then we can discuss this.

Fact is Durant didn't turn the Sonics/Thunder around until Westbrook and Harden joined.

frame this and hang it up in the PSD hall of fame.

Savage Sunday
05-15-2011, 10:28 PM
A poor rebounder are you serious?

He's the best offensive rebounder in the game and the second best rebounding sfr Im the game behind lebron.

People hate Melo but don't hate Kobe after what he's done in the pass.

That was sarcasm bro.

Im just saying how the media makes it seem like the only thing Carmelo can do is score and he doesnt impact the game elsewhere a la Kobe, Wade, & LeBron.

Kashmir13579
05-15-2011, 10:28 PM
T-mac was probably the most talented player i've ever been lucky enough to see.

bedford1829
05-15-2011, 10:29 PM
See my post above.

The media has made it clear that Carmelo is just Bernard King, and is only a scorer due to being on bad teams.

Melo has been to 8 straight Playoffs. Absolutely ridiculous hate he gets.

Especially considering he was qualifying in west for all those years where the balance of power rested. He wasn't qualifying on teams with a losing record which was the case with the state of the eastern conference even now

Ps. Great sig. I love tractor traylor even got to see him play when he came to the bryce Jordan center in state college to play Psu. Definite RIP

GiantsSwaGG
05-15-2011, 10:40 PM
That was sarcasm bro.

Im just saying how the media makes it seem like the only thing Carmelo can do is score and he doesnt impact the game elsewhere a la Kobe, Wade, & LeBron.

Oh lol...yeah your definitely right.

Sadds The Gr8
05-15-2011, 10:42 PM
U my friend is the guy on the other end of that guys but, if u really mean what u are saying about melo, u truly know nothing about the game of basketball


How can a perennial top 5 scorer, whose arguably top 3 in the league with the game on the line, who has his team in the playoffs every year be overrated. Just curious but he's had a pretty damn successful career by anyone's standards

because people act like he's so great and mighty, when he really isn't. he scores yea, but he isn't nearly as efficient as the other elite players, and he can't defend to save his life.

jockrider
05-15-2011, 10:45 PM
Come on now. Durant has had great games against us in the semis but an 11 point game 6 eliminates him from that contention

still sore about the loss?

heyman321
05-15-2011, 10:58 PM
Durant is the most overrated "superstar" in the league. He scores like jesus, but he can't pass, his rebounds are the ones that bounce off and where nobody is around the paint, and oh yeah, he can't pass. He's only scoring so much because he's put it a position to do so. If you give guys shots, they'll make more ===> see Chris Bosh with the Raptors.

Savage Sunday
05-15-2011, 10:59 PM
because people act like he's so great and mighty, when he really isn't. he scores yea, but he isn't nearly as efficient as the other elite players, and he can't defend to save his life.

He isnt as efficient as other elite players? Compared to who? His career FG% is on par with Kobe. Keep in mind more than 2/3 of Melo's shots come away from the basket unlike slashers like Wade & LeBron who attack the basket non-stop.

If you're calling a guy overrated because he isnt as efficient as the 3 best players in the NBA? Nobody said he was as good as Wade, LeBron, & Kobe. Most people who know basketball put Melo in that superstar tier right below those guys. So if he isnt on par with 2nd tier guys like CP3, D-Will, Durant, & Dirk then where should he be rated?

AddiX
05-15-2011, 11:04 PM
I don't think he's better than melo now or tmac in tmacs prime.

He's a heck of a player but he's overrated by fans and media by a lot. It's funny how people forget what vets did as soon as there is a new young guy around.

Tuck&Rolle
05-15-2011, 11:06 PM
Congrats to Durant and all but Melo took the nuggets to a western conference final so how has Durant passed Melo? He hasn't done anything Melo has not..

Mcgrady is the biggest joke in this discussion.. your kidding me right? The guy has had no playoff success what so ever.

I love how psd no longer gives any respect to Melo.. why cause he forced a trade to NY? That has nothing to do with his game and to say Durant is already better is a joke.

blams
05-15-2011, 11:07 PM
He is right up there with where McGrady was in his prime. Melo isn't even worth a mention here. :laugh2:

Tuck&Rolle
05-15-2011, 11:09 PM
He is right up there with where McGrady was in his prime. Melo isn't even worth a mention here. :laugh2:

You seriously must not know basketball then

Tuck&Rolle
05-15-2011, 11:12 PM
Melo is a better scorer then Durant and T Mac in his prime.

Melo is a better rebounder and passer then both.

Melo is a better passer then both.

Both play better defense. Even Melo's defense has gotten much better since he's been in NY.

jockrider
05-15-2011, 11:12 PM
he is right up there with where mcgrady was in his prime. Melo isn't even worth a mention here. :laugh2:

+1

jockrider
05-15-2011, 11:13 PM
Melo is a better scorer then Durant and T Mac in his prime.

Melo is a better rebounder and passer then both.

Melo is a better passer then both.

Both play better defense. Even Melo's defense has gotten much better since he's been in NY.

:facepalm:

yanksknicks
05-15-2011, 11:15 PM
I think Chuck just told us why Durant still has a way to go .... he can be taken out of games by smaller guys.

Tuck&Rolle
05-15-2011, 11:15 PM
:facepalm:

What did T mac do better then Melo in his prime? What did he do? Tell me cause there's nothing but defense and Melo's defense was much better since he's been in NY.

IndiansFan337
05-15-2011, 11:16 PM
He's already past Melo. Melo is one of the most overrated players currently in the NBA.

He's going to pass McGrady with just a few more seasons. McGrady never went beyond the first round of the playoffs.

Sadds The Gr8
05-15-2011, 11:16 PM
He isnt as efficient as other elite players? Compared to who? His career FG% is on par with Kobe. Keep in mind more than 2/3 of Melo's shots come away from the basket unlike slashers like Wade & LeBron who attack the basket non-stop.

If you're calling a guy overrated because he isnt as efficient as the 3 best players in the NBA? Nobody said he was as good as Wade, LeBron, & Kobe. Most people who know basketball put Melo in that superstar tier right below those guys. So if he isnt on par with 2nd tier guys like CP3, D-Will, Durant, & Dirk then where should he be rated?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=anthoca01&y1=2011&p2=bryanko01&y2=2011&p3=jamesle01&y3=2011&p4=duranke01&y4=2011&p5=paulch01&y5=2011&p6=willide01&y6=2011

his advanced stats dont touch any of the elite guys except Williams. but i'm giving Dwill the benefit of the doubt because he played injured for most of the season. people say he's the best scorer in the league when he really isnt.

Tuck&Rolle
05-15-2011, 11:18 PM
Its funny how PSD users hate on good players of other teams... Its quite sad really.. To say T Mac was better in his prime then Melo is just a joke and shows me you know absolutely nothing about the game. Durant its a wait and see thing..

Tuck&Rolle
05-15-2011, 11:19 PM
He's already past Melo. Melo is one of the most overrated players currently in the NBA.

He's going to pass McGrady with just a few more seasons. McGrady never went beyond the first round of the playoffs.

So if we're going to use the playoff thing then Melo and Durant are tied seeing that Melo took the Nuggets to a western conference finals right?

Tuck&Rolle
05-15-2011, 11:21 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=anthoca01&y1=2011&p2=bryanko01&y2=2011&p3=jamesle01&y3=2011&p4=duranke01&y4=2011&p5=paulch01&y5=2011&p6=willide01&y6=2011

his advanced stats dont touch any of the elite guys except Williams. but i'm giving Dwill the benefit of the doubt because he played injured for most of the season. people say he's the best scorer in the league when he really isnt.

Stats don't mean everything, specially thoughs kinds. How many times has melo come up with big games or hit game winning shots?

Chronz
05-15-2011, 11:26 PM
Its a shame injuries derailed TMAC as a player. From 04-06 he was the most skilled player in the nba. Silky smooth, sweet shooting stroke, great passer, and just an incredible player. Injuries killed him. Melo hasn't done all that much. He got the nuggets to the western finals only to get stroked by LA. He's a solid scorer that plays no D, and hasn't taken his game to the next level. Durant is unbelievable, and what he's done at 22, 23 is unreal. He'll probably go down as a top 5 player ever barring injury..

you should missed the apex of his prime. Shame his teams were always crippled and old

M.Bibby2.0
05-15-2011, 11:26 PM
Prime T-Mac was IMHO as good as LeBron on the offensive end of the court..

I think Durant is getting a lot of credit prematurely here, he can be guarded well enough to be taken out of a game as we've seen recently... It would be more challenging to hold melo down like that.

And as for the Playoff experience argument... You need a TEAM to win a series why are we comparing players based on this? McGrady was never healthy enough nor had Yao healthy enough for playoffs...
So because OKC beats a newly formed Nuggets team, and a Memphis team missing there best (maybe second best) player, so that MUST mean durant > T-mac & melo?? no, afraid not. Now knocking off a Lakers team would gain a lot more respect especially since melo couldn't get past them, then maybe that would be a valid argument.

meloman1592
05-15-2011, 11:30 PM
I might be acting like a homer but i dont think durant's better than melo. Prime t mac? Yes but not durant

sargon21
05-15-2011, 11:30 PM
How the **** is Melo better than Durant?

Durant does what Melo does best, except produces more and does it more efficiently...

What?
05-15-2011, 11:38 PM
Durant and T-Mac is a close call at this point, although T-Mac was a better overall player.

Melo isn't on their level.

this.

Quietmoney
05-15-2011, 11:46 PM
You people kill me on here... Melo has played Durant twelve times, does anyone know what the record is between the two?? I'll tell you.. 11-1 in favor of Melo. You guys be hating on him badly. He owns Durant!! Period. End of story! He abuses him! I watched a game they played earlier in the year when Melo was still on the Nuggets and watch him take Durant from all over the court with every move you can get took with. It was pitiful. Durant is a good scorer but he's overrated. He has no moves what so ever! He's quick, long, athletic, and can shoot with a quick release. But it ends there. I watch teams get away with putting smaller players on him all the time and dude is almost seven feet tall. Melo on the other hand can score every way known to man. And he rebounds better, and despite what the haters say... He can play decent defense.

Raph12
05-15-2011, 11:56 PM
TMac in his prime (2002-03 season) was better than both Durant and Melo ever were, but he wasn't able to sustain that type of play for long... The injuries didn't help either.

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 12:06 AM
Durant and T-Mac is a close call at this point, although T-Mac was a better overall player.

Melo isn't on their level.

But you know whats funny...

Melo had more success in the postseason then T-Mac...

More clutch then T-Mac and Durant...

Probably the best scorer in the game, better Rebounder then Durant and better passer...

People need to stop hating on Melo because he's Elite...People over react because he made it to the WC finals....Melo been there done that!

PlezPlayDKnicks
05-16-2011, 12:20 AM
Normal KNICK hate.. Not in the convo... I'd rate Tmac in his prime as tops because he did it all. He used to defend, could run an offense, and score with the best of them. He was as good or better than any wing in the league. Melo isn't the best passer or decision maker and his defense leaves a lot to be desired .. But the same can be said for KD. And Melo puts fear in the hearts of all defenders... LBJ and Durant gets ripped by Melo and in their match ups Melo usually comes out on top. But he's not in the convo.. Smh

Quietmoney
05-16-2011, 12:28 AM
I'm waiting for someone to quote my post and respond. Haters please respond. Melo owns Durant and showed how much more game he has than him. Melo never had a point guard like westbrook, people don't realize how important westbrook is to Durant's success.

Sadds The Gr8
05-16-2011, 01:02 AM
Stats don't mean everything, specially thoughs kinds. How many times has melo come up with big games or hit game winning shots?
stats are proof of how good players are...i can throw out random opinionated theories too. how much pts does he give up with his crap defense? how much clutch shots did he have this post-season?

Its funny how PSD users hate on good players of other teams... Its quite sad really.. To say T Mac was better in his prime then Melo is just a joke and shows me you know absolutely nothing about the game. Durant its a wait and see thing..

:facepalm: anyone who says prime Melo is better than prime t-mac just started watching basketball in 2009. no way in hell was Melo better than T-Mac from 2001-2004

llemon
05-16-2011, 01:09 AM
So if we're going to use the playoff thing then Melo and Durant are tied seeing that Melo took the Nuggets to a western conference finals right?

Melo's been playing a little longer

ayuntalo
05-16-2011, 01:16 AM
Its funny how PSD users hate on good players of other teams... Its quite sad really.. To say T Mac was better in his prime then Melo is just a joke and shows me you know absolutely nothing about the game. Durant its a wait and see thing..

im also a NY fan, but this kind of post makes me feel embarrassed..
come on man! be real..
T-Mac in his prime is one of the best that you will ever see, say every skill in basketball and he have it. i hope you watch some games when he was still in orlando playing with scrubs.

oh yeah btw, Durant is good..BUT HE IS OVER RATED!!
Durant = Melo
different game but almost the same over all
Durant is a great shooter with that height and wingspan plus he is not a ball stopper
on the other hand, Melo is a better all around player and more importantly he can get the ball when he wants to, unlike durant that only gets it when someone finds him, although the minus is melo stops the ball.
i put the assist a tie, because neither one of them is near T-mac's play making

heyman321
05-16-2011, 01:27 AM
Actually I want to change my vote from Melo to T-Mac.

T-Mac in his prime was as good as Kobe in his prime. He was always just on injured teams and cap-screwed teams, Grant Hill really screwed the Magic lol. Durant is easily overrated.

AnalyzeNShoot
05-16-2011, 01:36 AM
If, If he make it to final this year, he has officially surpass Melo, but as of now he is better than T-Mac

smood999
05-16-2011, 01:39 AM
is this about team success or just individual skill talent or some combo...cause theres arguments for durant cause of team success but that same argument ppl ignore when talkin about melo and ppl ignore and not use it against tmac

2nd if melo is overrated durant is also cause there really isnt that much that seperates the 2 and im a huge fan of both since both were in college

i voted that ppl r just splitting hairs...i feel like this is more of a popularity contest than anything else

WHAT OTHER TIME DID DURANT GET OUT OF THE 1ST RND BESIDES THIS YR.? ive read so many posts that durants been out of the 1st rnd twice and have not seen one person correct this...he's only made the playoffs twice and they lost to the lakers in the first rnd last yr! so his "impressive" playoff resume includes only 2 births and victories over a post melo nugget team and the grizzlies (lets be honest theyre a good up and coming team but 7 games?!)" like i said if melo's overrated so is durant and thats fine w me imo theyre both 2 elite talents in todays nba

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 01:46 AM
stats are proof of how good players are...i can throw out random opinionated theories too. how much pts does he give up with his crap defense? how much clutch shots did he have this post-season?


:facepalm: anyone who says prime Melo is better than prime t-mac just started watching basketball in 2009. no way in hell was Melo better than T-Mac from 2001-2004

:facepalm:The same can be said for Durant so whats your point?

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 01:51 AM
stats are proof of how good players are...i can throw out random opinionated theories too. how much pts does he give up with his crap defense? how much clutch shots did he have this post-season?


:facepalm: anyone who says prime Melo is better than prime t-mac just started watching basketball in 2009. no way in hell was Melo better than T-Mac from 2001-2004

And if your gonna throw stats then your basically proving that Melo is Elite!

smood999
05-16-2011, 02:08 AM
here's a head to head comparison of melo and durant this season!...how they faired head to head and their per 36 min season avg.....

http://www.nba.com/statscube/player-vs-player.html#Carmelo-Anthony-vs-Kevin-Durant|2546,201142;season=r

for those that dont want to click here's a quick breakdown...and u guess who is who

player a 25.8 pts 19.7 fga 46 fg% 3.3 3pa 38 3p% 7.9 fta 7.4reb 2.9ast

player b 25.6 pts 18.2 fga 46 fg% 4.9 3pa 35 3p% 8.0 fta 6.3reb 2.5ast

first thing ull see is that these r the 2 players that ppl wanna argue about the most as far as head to head and say one is sooo much better than the other...one of these players does win out statistically but is it really by all that much?

player a is melo
player b is durant

by this melo is the better player but not by much...a fav argument of ppl is that durants more efficient....they shoot the same percentage but melo has a higher 3p%...

Sadds The Gr8
05-16-2011, 02:12 AM
And if your gonna throw stats then your basically proving that Melo is Elite!
lol what?

:facepalm:The same can be said for Durant so whats your point?

Durant is more efficient on offense and plays more defense than Melo does.

sargon21
05-16-2011, 02:21 AM
here's a head to head comparison of melo and durant this season!...how they faired head to head and their per 36 min season avg.....

http://www.nba.com/statscube/player-vs-player.html#Carmelo-Anthony-vs-Kevin-Durant|2546,201142;season=r

for those that dont want to click here's a quick breakdown...and u guess who is who

player a 25.8 pts 19.7 fga 46 fg% 3.3 3pa 38 3p% 7.9 fta 7.4reb 2.9ast

player b 25.6 pts 18.2 fga 46 fg% 4.9 3pa 35 3p% 8.0 fta 6.3reb 2.5ast

first thing ull see is that these r the 2 players that ppl wanna argue about the most as far as head to head and say one is sooo much better than the other...one of these players does win out statistically but is it really by all that much?

player a is melo
player b is durant

by this melo is the better player but not by much...a fav argument of ppl is that durants more efficient....they shoot the same percentage but melo has a higher 3p%...

use basketball-reference.com for some real efficiency stats, start with the best TS%, it tells the whole story

sargon21
05-16-2011, 02:21 AM
And why do these Knicks fans think people are "Knicks haters"? What would I be hating on?

Raph12
05-16-2011, 02:27 AM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=duranke01&p2=anthoca01

In H2H games Melo has always dominated Durant, but that's not what is important, just like Rose bested CP3, doesn't make him better it just means that he matches up well with him.

smood999
05-16-2011, 02:28 AM
this yrs playoff avg
26.0 ppg 10.3rpg 4.8apg melo
28.0 ppg 7.5rpg 2.4apg durant

career playoff avg
24.7 ppg 7.3rpg 3.1apg melo
26.9 ppg 7.6rpg 2.4apg durant

obv melo's career playoff avg is more games
and in all cases durant is the one who plays more min a game by atleast 2 min reg season and playoffs which is y i posted the per 36 min earlier

Hawkeye15
05-16-2011, 02:30 AM
don't really feel like reading thru this whole thread.

Durant is superior to Melo, easily. As for McGrady, its hard. TMac's peak is probably better than Durant may ever be, but that being said, it was a short peak due to injuries.

Durant will eventually be the best out of the three here pretty easily.

smood999
05-16-2011, 02:34 AM
use basketball-reference.com for some real efficiency stats, start with the best TS%, it tells the whole story

ts% would take into acct ft% which is the only stat i left out...durant shoots almost 90% from the ft line..so is this what makes him better...cause as far as fg% and 3p% theyre about equal or atleast this season melo is better at 3's....how bout u take the ts% equation...put the ft% equal and then see how it comes out...im not gonna give durant the nod cause of ft....if u read my posts on this subject ive always said its too close u can go either way and thats all my point is...so if thats not saying its close idk

also advanced stats r not the end all be all..it actually doesnt work as well in basketball as it does other sports

Hellcrooner
05-16-2011, 03:25 AM
yes.



And he is bout to pass Vince Carter, Allen Iverson and Dirk too providing thunder do their job right.

Baller1
05-16-2011, 03:38 AM
:laugh:

WOW.

T-Mac ***** on both of them in terms of their primes, but we haven't seen a prime Durant so some of you need to just shut up. Melo isn't a part of this conversation, the only question is if Durant can pass T-Mac.

Hawkeye pretty much summed it up perfectly.

TMAC94
05-16-2011, 04:01 AM
i think if prime tmac had westbrook, ibaka, harden, perkins etc, tmac had players like alston, howard and david wesley, he would would have a stronger chance of getting a championship, durants still 22 i guess you can ask this question in 3-4 years.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2011, 04:34 AM
Durant passed Melo 2 years ago already.

CityofChaos
05-16-2011, 04:46 AM
Tmac in his prime = the BEST in the league

rhino17
05-16-2011, 05:54 AM
tmac was the most talented player in the league for a good stretch, the only guy that could be argued better than Kobe during him prime

its a shame he was on so many ****** teams

Durant will never be a better playmaker than tmac who probably had the best court vision of ay non PG of his generation, but Durant is and will be the more efficient scorer

jockrider
05-16-2011, 09:32 AM
Its funny how PSD users hate on good players of other teams... Its quite sad really.. To say T Mac was better in his prime then Melo is just a joke and shows me you know absolutely nothing about the game. Durant its a wait and see thing..

the fact you think it's a joke tells me you just started watching basketball 3 weeks ago.

EnWhyKay
05-16-2011, 09:35 AM
This disrespect toward Carmelo Anthony is disgusting.. smh... Arguably the most clutch performer we have playing in the game today.. And people are saying that he is not even in the conversation?..

We can go back and forth about who is better etc.. etc.. etc.. But if you want to gauge who is a better player between the three.. Ask guys in the league.. People that have competed with and against these dudes.. The truth lies within..

T-Mac in his prime was a HELL of a Player.. Putting up gargantuan numbers.. That still does not take away from what Carmelo has brought to the table... An Olympic Gold Medalist. A National Champion.. etc.. etc.. etc..

To say Carmelo Anthony is not in the discussion is disrespectful to say the least..

jockrider
05-16-2011, 09:41 AM
I'm waiting for someone to quote my post and respond. Haters please respond. Melo owns Durant and showed how much more game he has than him. Melo never had a point guard like westbrook, people don't realize how important westbrook is to Durant's success.

billups? he was an allstar in denver. and durant's started to become a winning team just last year the 2 years prior they were still rebuilding with young talent that's 8 losses right there for durants team.

twoearl
05-16-2011, 09:44 AM
If KD makes it to the finals then YES.

But if not, Melo and MAC will still be better.

jockrider
05-16-2011, 09:45 AM
This disrespect toward Carmelo Anthony is disgusting.. smh... Arguably the most clutch performer we have playing in the game today.. And people are saying that he is not even in the conversation?..

We can go back and forth about who is better etc.. etc.. etc.. But if you want to gauge who is a better player between the three.. Ask guys in the league.. People that have competed with and against these dudes.. The truth lies within..

T-Mac in his prime was a HELL of a Player.. Putting up gargantuan numbers.. That still does not take away from what Carmelo has brought to the table... An Olympic Gold Medalist. A National Champion.. etc.. etc.. etc..

To say Carmelo Anthony is not in the discussion is disrespectful to say the least..

as an individual player not counting team achievements Tmac was better basketball player than both, tmac was arguably better than prime kobe.

allSUAVE
05-16-2011, 10:00 AM
the POLL results is a JOKE :laugh:

ramz.n
05-16-2011, 10:15 AM
I'd say going forward he is the 2nd best player in the league currently, hes won 2 scoring titles at the age of 22...and is leading his team in a competitive conference and has taken them to the western conference finals..just solid.

Da Knicks
05-16-2011, 10:19 AM
MELO HATERS, Melo is the better player but people will continue to hate.

sep11ie
05-16-2011, 10:25 AM
What did T mac do better then Melo in his prime? What did he do? Tell me cause there's nothing but defense and Melo's defense was much better since he's been in NY.


Wow, your gonna question people basketball knowledge? How old are you? Did you ever watch the Magic/early Rockets days of T-Mac? He was head over heals better than Melo and Durant on EVERY aspect of his game. He could pass like a PG, was the best rebounding wing of his time, dunked on everybody, and shot as clutch as pretty much anyone in his time.

faze38
05-16-2011, 10:38 AM
Look, Melo turned that Nugget franchise into a 50 win team for 8 years since his was drafted there. That speaks for itself.

You do not surpass anyone until you get to the NBA Finals. When Durant makes it there then we can discuss this.

Fact is Durant didn't turn the Sonics/Thunder around until Westbrook and Harden joined.

Thank you KD has a very good team around him. Yes Melo did as well but u have to think about the fact that Melo played against KG, Kobe, Tim Duncan, Dirk, Nash, Shaq, etc... in their primes. I mean these guys dominated their era luckly for KD these guys are startting to fall off but even with them falling off I'm putting my money on Dirk in this series. The other thing I think people need to take into account is the fact that KD has Westbrook who is also a young and upcoming star, Melo played with A.I. and Billups but they were on the other end of their primes by then. I mean imagine if Melo got to play with CP3 on his way up what would people say then?!

PrettyBoyJ
05-16-2011, 10:47 AM
A Healthy McGrady was better then Melo and Durant IMO.. Just imagine if T-Mac wasnt robbed of injuries what he could have accomplished in the league..

Durant is still young and is certainly in some elite company but as right now, today, this very min, he's not better then old T-Mac

faze38
05-16-2011, 11:20 AM
Wow, your gonna question people basketball knowledge? How old are you? Did you ever watch the Magic/early Rockets days of T-Mac? He was head over heals better than Melo and Durant on EVERY aspect of his game. He could pass like a PG, was the best rebounding wing of his time, dunked on everybody, and shot as clutch as pretty much anyone in his time.

I can agree T-Mac was great but to say he is way better in every asset of the game is crazy better ball handler, playmaker and defender yes. But not a better rebounder then Melo his post game was never in the same league as Melo's and Melo is heads over heels better then all of them in the Clutch department! Also if you are a fan of advanced stats Melo and KD both top T-mac numbers wise so he is not head over heels over these guys. On top of that the most important thing to take into account when talking about T-Mac is that he spent most of his prime on the IR so that alone gives Melo and KD the leg up. KD is a monster and i give him tons of respect but I think the fact that he has a PG as dynamic as Westbrook that it drops him down a notch because he will get alot of open shoots just because of the pressure Westbrook puts on the defense. T-Mac never had that and Melo had A.I. who did that but didn't do it well because he was a scorer not a playmaker! So in conclusion these guys are a wash I would take any of them but in no way would I say either is way better then the other they are and were some of the best the question really is which one will get their ring first. As a Knick fan I hope T-Mac joins Melo and they can get one together they are both two of my av players of all-time they are just nasty!

Baller1
05-16-2011, 12:03 PM
No one here is a "Knick hater" people. You could've asked this question while Melo was in Denver still, and you would be getting the same results. Melo just isn't as good as either of the other two, sorry.

NYK|NYY
05-16-2011, 12:03 PM
Durant has some great talent on his team and also benefits from playing a weaker west than those two fellas. That said, I'd take Durant over 'Melo.

gilly
05-16-2011, 12:10 PM
I don't see how Durant passed T-mac

He got out of the first round for a start.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2011, 12:18 PM
I can agree T-Mac was great but to say he is way better in every asset of the game is crazy better ball handler, playmaker and defender yes. But not a better rebounder then Melo his post game was never in the same league as Melo's and Melo is heads over heels better then all of them in the Clutch department! Also if you are a fan of advanced stats Melo and KD both top T-mac numbers wise so he is not head over heels over these guys. On top of that the most important thing to take into account when talking about T-Mac is that he spent most of his prime on the IR so that alone gives Melo and KD the leg up. KD is a monster and i give him tons of respect but I think the fact that he has a PG as dynamic as Westbrook that it drops him down a notch because he will get alot of open shoots just because of the pressure Westbrook puts on the defense. T-Mac never had that and Melo had A.I. who did that but didn't do it well because he was a scorer not a playmaker! So in conclusion these guys are a wash I would take any of them but in no way would I say either is way better then the other they are and were some of the best the question really is which one will get their ring first. As a Knick fan I hope T-Mac joins Melo and they can get one together they are both two of my av players of all-time they are just nasty!

no

JasonJohnHorn
05-16-2011, 12:37 PM
EJ, Barkley C-Wedd and Kenny Smith were all talking about the Dallas-OKC match-up. Kenny Smith has picked OKC, Barkley said it would be a quick series in favour of Dallas, and said it was because Durant hadnt developed a post game to take advantage of smaller defenders. When I heard this I thought of Bryant and how he has developed his post game over the last couple of seasons and then realized: Durant has gotten to the conference finals without even reaching his full potential. I expect that, barring injury, Durant will improve his post game, his defence, and his passing skills in the seasons to come. Hopefully he'll call up the Dream this offseason like Kobe did and take some lessons.

A a GM my pick, if I had my pick of each player in their prime, would be Durant. I've always had questions concerning McGrady's maturity, and history has told us that only one team with a score-first ball handler winning the NBA title, and that guys was Jordan. Some might say the Piston's Thomas was a score-first ball handler, but he also post 1000+ assists in a season and always looked for his teammates, but forced defenders to play him tight to open things. Parker, Fisher, White Chocolate/Payton, Rondo, MadMax/KennySmith/Casell, Magic, Dennis Johnson... you go back and you always see a pass first playmaker winning the title save Jordan and perhaps the West/Goodrich/Chamberlain/Baylor Lakers, but those guys shared the ball plenty.

So I would even pick Melo over McGrady in terms of building a team, but Durant I would pick above all three. Durant seems to have a little more humility and focus on team ball than McGrady and Melo have shown. And that translate on the court.

Durant is lucky because of timing obviously, but part of it is his mentality and approach to the game as well.

miller74
05-16-2011, 12:38 PM
Look, Melo turned that Nugget franchise into a 50 win team for 8 years since his was drafted there. That speaks for itself.

You do not surpass anyone until you get to the NBA Finals. When Durant makes it there then we can discuss this.

Fact is Durant didn't turn the Sonics/Thunder around until Westbrook and Harden joined.

And got even better once he left , and that speaks for itself.

TMac never made it out of the first round why does Durant need to make it to the finals.

jockrider
05-16-2011, 12:52 PM
What did T mac do better then Melo in his prime? What did he do? Tell me cause there's nothing but defense and Melo's defense was much better since he's been in NY.

Translation: melo's defense is better because he plays for my team now and i love him.

Baller1
05-16-2011, 12:53 PM
Translation: melo's defense is better because he plays for my team now and i love him.

:laugh:

NYK|NYY
05-16-2011, 01:00 PM
Translation: melo's defense is better because he plays for my team now and i love him.

Honestly, his defense is better by HIS standards during the bigger games. Which just means he doesn't give his 100% every game and maybe worse than just being generally horrible at defense.

AddiX
05-16-2011, 01:02 PM
Last time melo was on Denver and played durant melo said it was personal and he went completely nuts on durant. Durant looked like a 2nd tier player when melo decided to play hard against him. Melo locked him down on defense, snatched up boards and put up buckets from every area of the floor possible.

Those two aren't even close, melo all day. And I'm not saying that as a homer.

D-Leethal
05-16-2011, 01:13 PM
I think its safe to say any of those Melo-Chauncey teams and a good chance the Melo-AI teams would have easily taken out the no star Nuggets and 8 seed Grizz..........Thunder have had the easiest route to the WCF in the past decade

Sadds The Gr8
05-16-2011, 01:15 PM
I can agree T-Mac was great but to say he is way better in every asset of the game is crazy better ball handler, playmaker and defender yes. But not a better rebounder then Melo his post game was never in the same league as Melo's and Melo is heads over heels better then all of them in the Clutch department! Also if you are a fan of advanced stats Melo and KD both top T-mac numbers wise so he is not head over heels over these guys. On top of that the most important thing to take into account when talking about T-Mac is that he spent most of his prime on the IR so that alone gives Melo and KD the leg up. KD is a monster and i give him tons of respect but I think the fact that he has a PG as dynamic as Westbrook that it drops him down a notch because he will get alot of open shoots just because of the pressure Westbrook puts on the defense. T-Mac never had that and Melo had A.I. who did that but didn't do it well because he was a scorer not a playmaker! So in conclusion these guys are a wash I would take any of them but in no way would I say either is way better then the other they are and were some of the best the question really is which one will get their ring first. As a Knick fan I hope T-Mac joins Melo and they can get one together they are both two of my av players of all-time they are just nasty!

:facepalm:

THE MTL
05-16-2011, 01:21 PM
WOW, look at all the Carmelo Anthony hate. I guess its because he's on the Knicks now. One conference Finals appearance and ppl think that Durant is all of a sudden surpassed Melo and TMac.

You've got to have longevity in this league! Durant is been in the league for four years and has been good in only three of them. His resume includes one first round playoff loss and one conference Finals appearance.

There is too many young ppl on this forum, making the other young ppl (like myself) look bad. This Durant thing is just one example. But I've seen Iverson bashing like he was a NOBODY? Derrick Rose is suddenly the best PG finisher of all time?

Baller1
05-16-2011, 01:21 PM
I think its safe to say any of those Melo-Chauncey teams and a good chance the Melo-AI teams would have easily taken out the no star Nuggets and 8 seed Grizz..........Thunder have had the easiest route to the WCF in the past decade

Why? Because Memphis had an "8" next to their team name?

MagicBucsSox
05-16-2011, 01:24 PM
Tmac wouldn't struggle as badly as durant and get locked down by a midget.


Melo is NOWHERE in this discussion.

This

Durant too one dementional( spellcheck) too pass either . ESP Mac

bmykal24
05-16-2011, 01:29 PM
ahahah all of you hating on melo are hilarious, do you guys even watch basketball? or do you just listen to what other dummies say aha. hate to break this to you but hes the best scorer in the league, and when he commits himself to defense hes a pretty good defender, he can pass sometimes chooses not to and yess thats a problem but to call him overrated are you serious? melo is a damn beast point blank period not to mention one of the most clutch players in the league

Crackadalic
05-16-2011, 01:31 PM
T-mac
KD
Melo

Between Melo and KD is really a toss up right now. People who said Melo got out the 1st round once fail to see he face both the Dynasty Spurs and Lakers twice, a MVP kg team that went to the WCF a clippers squad that was head to toe better, and a utah jazz team that took advantage of the nuggets with karl out. KD is the better efficient player but in terms of achievement its not close at all

KD could never beat a Melo lead nuggets team yet as soon as he left he had his way with them. Think about that.

KD is a better efficient scorer but its somewhat shrew because of his high FT%. you take that out both TS% and efg is basically the same. Like Melo KD sleeps a lot on the defensive end both when motivated he is probably the best at it

With that said T-mac ***** on both of them. KD might have a chance but right now what T-mac did in his earlier years was crazy.

JasonJohnHorn
05-16-2011, 01:32 PM
I think its safe to say any of those Melo-Chauncey teams and a good chance the Melo-AI teams would have easily taken out the no star Nuggets and 8 seed Grizz..........Thunder have had the easiest route to the WCF in the past decade

The Nuggets team they played this year was one of the deepest teams in the NBA going into the playoffs and had a lot of potential. And a number of people picked Denver to win that series. That team is very underrated, and this Memphis team proved it was for real when they gave the Spurs their walking papers. And nobody in their right mind would underestimate Zach, Gay and Gasol. That is one of the best starting front courts in the NBA. You throw Shane Battier into the mix, with Mayo and Conley, and a guy with championship expereince in Tony Allen.. there is a reason this team put a 60-win team out of the playoffs.

The Lakers went 8-2 against the Jazz and Nuggets in 08, and only had to deal with the Jazz and a depleted Houston Rockets in 09, while Denver went 8-2 against the Hornets and MAvs that year to get to the WCF. And last year the Lakers went 8-2 against OKC and Utah.

I'd say those trip were not any more difficult than the one OCK had this season. You have to remember that when you are playing in the West, there are teams that miss the playoffs who would go straight to the conference finals in the east most seasons out of the last decade.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2011, 01:42 PM
Last time melo was on Denver and played durant melo said it was personal and he went completely nuts on durant. Durant looked like a 2nd tier player when melo decided to play hard against him. Melo locked him down on defense, snatched up boards and put up buckets from every area of the floor possible.

Those two aren't even close, melo all day. And I'm not saying that as a homer.

:facepalm:

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 02:06 PM
I just love how people Overract, the guy makes it to ONE WC finals and he's already better then T-Mac and Melo...Thats like saying if D Rose wins a championship He might as well be better then Jordan...

Give the guy 3 mores years like come on...What if he doesn't make it to another one will he still be better then Melo and T-Mac?

And this Melo hate needs to stop...When Melo was with the Nuggets he owned Durant...11-1

Since melo left now Durant finally beats the Nuggets...That speaks volumes too!

Chronz
05-16-2011, 02:27 PM
I wish mods would just erase every post where the word hate, hatred, or haterade is used.


Honestly, his defense is better by HIS standards during the bigger games. Which just means he doesn't give his 100% every game and maybe worse than just being generally horrible at defense.
Honestly, his defense is worse. Heres hoping being in NY and more nationally televised games will force him to play D because thus far there is nothing you can point to, that will back your opinion of his defense being far better in NY than any other point in his career.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2011, 02:47 PM
I just love how people Overract, the guy makes it to ONE WC finals and he's already better then T-Mac and Melo...Thats like saying if D Rose wins a championship He might as well be better then Jordan...

Give the guy 3 mores years like come on...What if he doesn't make it to another one will he still be better then Melo and T-Mac?

And this Melo hate needs to stop...When Melo was with the Nuggets he owned Durant...11-1

Since melo left now Durant finally beats the Nuggets...That speaks volumes too!

What hate:laugh2:???
They guy has been better than Melo 2 years now.


I wish mods would just erase every post where the word hate, hatred, or haterade is used.

Honestly, his defense is worse. Heres hoping being in NY and more nationally televised games will force him to play D because thus far there is nothing you can point to, that will back your opinion of his defense being far better in NY than any other point in his career.

and this:sigh:

allSUAVE
05-16-2011, 02:58 PM
Charles Barkley Kenny and Webber agree with it, Durant can't score Like dirk and Melo he's a shooter off screens so smaller guys like Tony allen could guard him.

Dallas in 5 games send your *** home, you are lucky to have the supporting cast you have Durant or your *** would be exposed, I'm SORRY LOL!

Hawkeye15
05-16-2011, 03:22 PM
why do Knicks fans throw the term "hate" around so much? I don't see anyone calling you haters for posting ridiculous claims that can't be backed up, and saying Melo is clearly better, therefore you must "hate" Durant.

Head to head is the worst way to measure. There are 82 games a season, and playoffs. Fact is, both Durant and Melo have comparable roles (be the primary scorer), score tons of points, and Durant does it with MUCH better efficiency across the board. Neither are great defenders, and both are good rebounders.

Melo has never carried an offensive rating of 110, which is the borderline of being a really good player. He can't even get there for christ's sake. And his WS/48 have never been above 0.145

Durant meanwhile, hovers at the 115-118 area in Offensive rating (elite), and hovers around the 0.2 area for WS/48 (elite).

Durant's efficiency is far, far superior to Melo, and that is what separates the two.

To those who say Melo carried the Nuggets from a lottery team into a perrenial playoff team, please look at the roster/games played by those players, the year before Melo got there, and the year Melo arrived. Upgrades were made across the board, and they got a healthy roster behind Melo. They would have improved a ton of games without Melo, so he shouldn't be getting all the credit here.

Are people here seriously attempting to say Melo may not have had the roster support that Durant has this year? Really? haha

mmkay


McGrady's peak for sure trumps both, and Melo versus McGrady should never be brought up, unless you are factoring in longevity as the main piece of your argument.

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 03:27 PM
What hate:laugh2:???
They guy has been better than Melo 2 years now.



and this:sigh:

Really?

Last year Thunder vs. Nuggets...3-1 favoring the nuggets.

Both made it to the playoffs and both lost in the first round. Records of both teams 4-2 each series.

Nuggets 53w Thunder 50w

Year before?

54-28 Nuggets Anthony leading the Nuggets to the WC finals.

23-59 Thunder With Westbrook & half of the players still on his on the team.

Record against each other 4-0 favoring Nuggets.

Need more okay,

Lets compare playoffs numbers then

10-11 playoffs.

Durant- 28.9 ppg 2.3 apg 7.7 rpg

Anthony- 26.0 ppg 4.5 apg 10.3 rpg

09-10 playoffs.

Durant- 25.0 ppg 2.3 apg 7.7 rpg

Anthony- 30.7 ppg 3.3 apg 8.5 rpg

Numbers indicate Anthony was the better player...

JazzAllDay-JB
05-16-2011, 03:38 PM
T-Mac in his prime was ridiculous, anthony got out of the first round ONE time if anything him and Durant are the same right now but for melo fans that isnt so good because Durant is younger but you shouldnt judge Durant until he has been in the league a little longer cause nobody was comparing Melo to T-Mac when Melo was 22

Chill_Will_24
05-16-2011, 03:41 PM
Really?

Last year Thunder vs. Nuggets...3-1 favoring the nuggets.

Both made it to the playoffs and both lost in the first round. Records of both teams 4-2 each series.

Nuggets 53w Thunder 50w

Year before?

54-28 Nuggets Anthony leading the Nuggets to the WC finals.

23-59 Thunder With Westbrook & half of the players still on his on the team.

Record against each other 4-0 favoring Nuggets.

Need more okay,

Lets compare playoffs numbers then

10-11 playoffs.

Durant- 28.9 ppg 2.3 apg 7.7 rpg

Anthony- 26.0 ppg 4.5 apg 10.3 rpg

09-10 playoffs.

Durant- 25.0 ppg 2.3 apg 7.7 rpg

Anthony- 30.7 ppg 3.3 apg 8.5 rpg

Numbers indicate Anthony was the better player...

:facepalm: Knicks fans are obsessed with per game stats

gsgs49
05-16-2011, 03:42 PM
Really?

Last year Thunder vs. Nuggets...3-1 favoring the nuggets.

Both made it to the playoffs and both lost in the first round. Records of both teams 4-2 each series.

Nuggets 53w Thunder 50w

Year before?

54-28 Nuggets Anthony leading the Nuggets to the WC finals.

23-59 Thunder With Westbrook & half of the players still on his on the team.

Record against each other 4-0 favoring Nuggets.

Need more okay,

Lets compare playoffs numbers then

10-11 playoffs.

Durant- 28.9 ppg 2.3 apg 7.7 rpg

Anthony- 26.0 ppg 4.5 apg 10.3 rpg

09-10 playoffs.

Durant- 25.0 ppg 2.3 apg 7.7 rpg

Anthony- 30.7 ppg 3.3 apg 8.5 rpg

Numbers indicate Anthony was the better player...

This part is just garbage,you are comparing two teams here not two players
and why to compare playoffs numbers not season numbers where Durant is better in almost every category
For example in the 2010 playoffs they both played 6 games,that's a very small amount of games,it isn't enough to make a comparison.
Durant played against one of the best perimeter defender in Artest,who Melo played?
And for this year,Durant is much more efficient than Melo

You're wrong I'm sorry.

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 03:48 PM
This part is just garbage,you are comparing two teams here not two players
and why to compare playoffs numbers not season numbers where Durant is better in almost every category
For example in the 2010 playoffs they both played 6 games,that's a very small amount of games,it isn't enough to make a comparison.
Durant played against one of the best perimeter defender in Artest,who Melo played?

And Melo didn't? Durant didn't play the Lakers in the playoffs:confused:

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 03:49 PM
:facepalm: Knicks fans are obsessed with per game stats

Typical Net's fan reaction! And if you read other posters, you'll see that their saying Durant had better numbers then Melo!

gsgs49
05-16-2011, 03:50 PM
And Melo didn't? Durant didn't play the Lakers in the playoffs:confused:

Yes he did,the first round was the #1 seed lakers against the #8 seed thunder.

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 03:50 PM
This part is just garbage,you are comparing two teams here not two players
and why to compare playoffs numbers not season numbers where Durant is better in almost every category
For example in the 2010 playoffs they both played 6 games,that's a very small amount of games,it isn't enough to make a comparison.
Durant played against one of the best perimeter defender in Artest,who Melo played?
And for this year,Durant is much more efficient than Melo

You're wrong I'm sorry.

But yet when he went against Toney Allen, he shut him down...

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 03:56 PM
Yes he did,the first round was the #1 seed lakers against the #8 seed thunder.

Oh he talking about last year...Okay but he lost.

smood999
05-16-2011, 03:56 PM
Why? Because Memphis had an "8" next to their team name?

no cause memphis is not as good as the thunder were making them out to be...i dont get how durant made it out the first round for the first time and all of a sudden he's accomplished more...

smood999
05-16-2011, 04:00 PM
shooting percentage wise they are about the same fg% melo shoots a higher 3 pt% and durant a higher ft % but yet durant is way more efficient...this is a joke....cant wait till okc gets dominated so everyone can see how overrated they r....i love durant but if he's better than melo its not by much at all and vice versa....okc is the new orl magic....have a easy road then as soon as they play a good opponent theyll get dominated...look where orl is now and how good ppl thought they were....okc will suffer the same fate

Sadds The Gr8
05-16-2011, 04:03 PM
Really?

Last year Thunder vs. Nuggets...3-1 favoring the nuggets.

Both made it to the playoffs and both lost in the first round. Records of both teams 4-2 each series.

Nuggets 53w Thunder 50w

Year before?

54-28 Nuggets Anthony leading the Nuggets to the WC finals.

23-59 Thunder With Westbrook & half of the players still on his on the team.

Record against each other 4-0 favoring Nuggets.

Need more okay,

Lets compare playoffs numbers then

10-11 playoffs.

Durant- 28.9 ppg 2.3 apg 7.7 rpg

Anthony- 26.0 ppg 4.5 apg 10.3 rpg

09-10 playoffs.

Durant- 25.0 ppg 2.3 apg 7.7 rpg

Anthony- 30.7 ppg 3.3 apg 8.5 rpg

Numbers indicate Anthony was the better player...

per game stats....:facepalm:

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 04:04 PM
per game stats....:facepalm:

You got something better? Because half of you still didn't prove let alone show how Durant is better then Melo:rolleyes:
:facepalm:

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 04:05 PM
shooting percentage wise they are about the same fg% melo shoots a higher 3 pt% and durant a higher ft % but yet durant is way more efficient...this is a joke....cant wait till okc gets dominated so everyone can see how overrated they r....i love durant but if he's better than melo its not by much at all and vice versa....okc is the new orl magic....have a easy road then as soon as they play a good opponent theyll get dominated...look where orl is now and how good ppl thought they were....okc will suffer the same fate

This

BallaDrake601
05-16-2011, 04:13 PM
mcgrady was one of tha best scorers i've ever seen in my life and im still a fan of him and hope he can return to at least half tha player he was

allSUAVE
05-16-2011, 04:17 PM
It's funny because every thread was built to take a shot at Melo ever since he became a knick...

We should make a thread regarding who is the best PG

smood999
05-16-2011, 04:17 PM
per game stats....:facepalm:

ok so...earlier in this thread i broke down their per 36 min stats since durant does play more min a game.....and there was not one category that durant was ahead of melo in...so on a game by game basis number wise and percentage wise atleast this season melo won in every category....now fine someone said hey no u gotta go by ts% ok fine....not taking into account that the one category that goes into that that either player has a huge lead in (which is durant) is ft...so in each seperate category put into this equation melo is better but due to the large disparity in ft durant comes out on top...and this is what makes him a better player...head to head melo owns durant again this is something we cant measure it by...as far as team success so far...melo hasnt missed the playoffs once, has multiple 50 win seasons and for those that say the nuggets r better now how? lets ignore the fact that melos nuggets have had better runs and better overall records

ppl wanna criticize per game stats but at the same time its these same per game stats that r used in advanced stats...so breaking it down to the root melo is better if u put in several categories where 2 players r close but one has a greater advantage in just one category ur gonna get a larger disparity in the advanced stats between the 2..simple math which is y advanced stats r not as reliable as ppl make it out to be...im sure advanced stats would suggest that kevin love is better than tim duncan at the same age..do we believe this? no! so y completely use it in some arguments and disregard it in others...lets be real players getting into the hall of fame and judgement of all players since the beginning of time have been their game stats..now all of a sudden thats not good enough...lets go back rewrite history completely then...nba teams, scouts, etc dont even use advanced stats as a true barometer because like ive said advanced stats is not at the point in basketball as it is in other sports where its reliable

give it a rest ppl these 2 r very equal...if u cant judge just by watching and seeing the results on the court then idk we might as well not watch the games and just look at these numbers...durant has not had more success team wise or individually so i dont get it...all it is, he's more likable and he's the new kid on the block

SteveNash
05-16-2011, 04:22 PM
McGrady prime easily.

Melo ahead of Durant but way below Mcgrady.

You don't really want any of the 3 on your team.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2011, 04:24 PM
Really?

Last year Thunder vs. Nuggets...3-1 favoring the nuggets.

Both made it to the playoffs and both lost in the first round. Records of both teams 4-2 each series.

Nuggets 53w Thunder 50w

Year before?

54-28 Nuggets Anthony leading the Nuggets to the WC finals.

23-59 Thunder With Westbrook & half of the players still on his on the team.

Record against each other 4-0 favoring Nuggets.

Need more okay,

Lets compare playoffs numbers then

10-11 playoffs.

Durant- 28.9 ppg 2.3 apg 7.7 rpg

Anthony- 26.0 ppg 4.5 apg 10.3 rpg

09-10 playoffs.

Durant- 25.0 ppg 2.3 apg 7.7 rpg

Anthony- 30.7 ppg 3.3 apg 8.5 rpg

Numbers indicate Anthony was the better player...

Regular stats:sigh::yawn:

smood999
05-16-2011, 04:25 PM
ppl wanna use the spurs as validation for memphis...ok so that means golden state was legit too right?....how bout a) matchups b) who here believed the spurs were as good as their record stated?

memphis is a nice young team but they r not as good as ppl r making them out to be now...i remember a thread on here about a couple months into the season saying okc was on of the most overrated teams in the league...most believed that...what changed cause they beat the nuggets and grizzlies? everybody saying head to head matchups dont matter but can admit that melo nuggets owned the thunder, with that said if melo was still on the nuggets most of u must believe that the thunder would not have beaten them and therefore this whole thread would not be going on...idr but was there a thread like this when melo was in the wcf 2 yrs ago? when he had a way better playoff run individually than what durants had so far getting there?

allSUAVE
05-16-2011, 04:27 PM
Advanced stats dont evaluate true talent to me.

because Melos clearly more talented than durant

Hawkeye15
05-16-2011, 04:29 PM
It's funny because every thread was built to take a shot at Melo ever since he became a knick...

We should make a thread regarding who is the best PG

um, where were you last year, or the beginning of this year? Many of us have been calling Melo overrated a long time. Changing jerseys has nothing to do with it.

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 04:30 PM
Regular stats:sigh::yawn:

Lakers Fans...If your still mad, get over it. You gotta a better way to prove Durant is better then Melo? Because you basically haven't proved anything!

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2011, 04:30 PM
You got something better? Because half of you still didn't prove let alone show how Durant is better then Melo:rolleyes:
:facepalm:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=duranke01&y1=2011&p2=anthoca01&y2=2011

take a look at Advanced and Playoffs Advanced statistics

They are not even close.

Hawkeye15
05-16-2011, 04:30 PM
Advanced stats dont evaluate true talent to me.

because They don't prove my point, therefore they must be wrong

fixed it for ya man :)

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2011, 04:31 PM
Lakers Fans...If your still mad, get over it. You gotta a better way to prove Durant is better then Melo? Because you basically haven't proved anything!

:confused:

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2011, 04:32 PM
fixed it for ya man :)

:laugh:

Sadds The Gr8
05-16-2011, 04:34 PM
You got something better? Because half of you still didn't prove let alone show how Durant is better then Melo:rolleyes:
:facepalm:

wtf? are u blind? i clearly posted a link comparing Melo to 5 other superstars and proved he wasn't on their level.

Sadds The Gr8
05-16-2011, 04:35 PM
Advanced stats dont evaluate true talent to me.

because Melos clearly more talented than durant

talented doesn't mean better. Bargnani is more talented than Noah, is he better? **** no.

allSUAVE
05-16-2011, 04:35 PM
:laugh:

why you laughing , your a bandwagon, A disgrace :facepalm:



fixed it for ya man :)

OK WOLVES FAN, your the best mod ever. thanks for fixing

SteveNash
05-16-2011, 04:36 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=duranke01&y1=2011&p2=anthoca01&y2=2011

take a look at Advanced and Playoffs Advanced statistics

They are not even close.

One guy went up against Boston, without a healthy Amare and Billups.

The other guy went up against Denver and Memphis while having the luxury of Westbrook.

Hawkeye15
05-16-2011, 04:38 PM
here is something I posted forever ago, at the beginning of the season, in the statistics thread



Carmelo Anthony has averaged 20 points per game every season since he arrived in the NBA. This past campaign, he became the third-youngest player ever to reach the 10,000-point plateau, behind only Kobe Bryant and LeBron James. And next summer, he could hit the open market as an unrestricted free agent.

But despite all those gaudy point totals, the three-time All-Star may not even be worth the max deal a team would likely give him in 2011.


At first glance, Anthony seems like a member of the NBA's elite, largely due to his scoring prowess. But a deeper look at the points column and elsewhere in his game reveals a player who lives on an undeserved reputation more than his actual impact on wins.

It's tough to argue with his 28.2 points-per-game average in '09-10, but in the game of basketball, how a shooter gets his points is more meaningful than the raw number itself. To see that, we need to peel back the layers.

Let's first talk about Anthony's shot volume. It's not exactly a secret that 'Melo likes to shoot the rock, but his propensity to launch shots may raise some eyebrows. This past season, no player in the NBA took more shots per minute than Anthony -- not Kobe, not LeBron, not even scoring champ Kevin Durant.

It may seem obvious that a player worthy of 20 shots per game would have a healthy conversion rate. But in Anthony's case, that's far from the truth. Anthony, in reality, had a below-average field goal percentage (.458) this past season -- and his career percentage (.459) is no different. (The league average is .463.)

The sharp readers out there will point out that traditional field goal percentage doesn't reflect Anthony's shooting ability, since he launches a healthy dose of 3-pointers, which obviously count more on the scoreboard. That's true. But if you've been paying attention, you know Anthony is not a good shooter from beyond the arc, so that doesn't help his case. As a career .308 percent 3-point shooter, his shot from downtown ranks far below the norm (the average small forward shot .349 last season; Melo shot .316) and any progress he seemingly made in 2008-09, when he shot a career-high .371, disappeared. Even if we incorporate the added point bonus of a 3-pointer, the Syracuse product's shooting percentages are, at best, average.

It seems that, anyway we slice it, Anthony is a gunner at the core. His exceptional skill on offense is his ability to get his shot off, whether it's attacking the rim or through a patented pull-up jumper on the perimeter. But interestingly enough, Anthony got his shot blocked a whopping 109 times last season, which ranks as the second-highest total in the league, according to Hoopdata.com. Evidently, he doesn't lack perseverance.

Anthony's case illustrates a fundamental problem in conventional basketball analysis: scoring averages don't reflect efficiency. It's true that Anthony scored 28.2 points per game last season, but it's also true that no player missed more shots as often as Anthony did. Feel free to credit his skill but also pay attention his lofty shot volume and playing time.

And that's before we consider the disguise of team pace. Since Anthony entered the league, the Denver Nuggets have averaged 95.9 possessions per game, which places them as the third -fastest squad in the NBA over that period of time (and just a fraction behind the high-octane Phoenix Suns). Over that same span, the Nuggets have squeezed out an extra four possessions per game when compared to the average NBA team. Do the math, and the Nuggets have enjoyed nearly 2,000 extra possessions above the norm since Anthony joined the NBA. That's a ton of extra opportunities that can pad the per-game stats used as measuring sticks.

So after stripping out the inflationary effect of fast pace and boiling down Anthony's numbers to a per possession level, his scoring punch looks even more pedestrian. How pedestrian? Anthony's career offensive rating, an efficiency measure that calculates how many points a player produces per 100 possessions he uses, checks out at 107, which sits right at the league average. For reference, 2003 draft-mates James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh have earned 114, 111, and 113 lifetime offensive ratings, respectively.

Before we prematurely call Anthony an average player, there is something to be said for the burden of trust. Not every player can still perform while shouldering the heavy scoring responsibility that Anthony has endured. But the Nuggets have probably allowed Anthony to shoot far too often if efficiency -- and winning -- is their goal. In fact, last season Melo was only sixth on his own team in ORtg (110), trailing far behind other legit weapons like Nene (124), Chauncey Billups (120) and Ty Lawson (118).

Aside from scoring, Anthony doesn't have many other bankable weapons as a player. His rebounding (career 6.2 rpg) is only slightly better than what we'd expect from a small forward, and he doesn't create opportunities for his teammates like Paul Pierce, Wade and James can. Furthermore, he hasn't shown the intensity and dedication on the defensive end that you'd want from a max player.

In the end, Anthony's game demonstrates why it's important to strip away the biases that color our perceptions of elite players. In Anthony's case, the excessive shot volume, his team's stat-padding tempo and the lack of a true 3-point game makes his 28.2 ppg seem far less impressive than his sparkling reputation would suggest.

If anything, it's time we moved on from per-game statistics to evaluate our players. Millions of dollars are wasted every year basing player value on the archaic statistics that teams used half a century ago. And someone will surely overpay Anthony and offer him a max contract -- just look at the deals Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay got




Guys, there is more than using your eyes. Durant and Melo do the same exact thing, but Durant does it far more efficiently. And its not even close anymore

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 04:38 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=duranke01&y1=2011&p2=anthoca01&y2=2011

take a look at Advanced and Playoffs Advanced statistics

They are not even close.

Okay so Per Game stats proves Melo's better and Advanced stats proves Durant is better...

And the numbers are not even close??? Are you kidding me...There basically around the same in most categories.

And of course his playoffs numbers are gonna look better then Melo's...He played more games!

gsgs49
05-16-2011, 04:40 PM
But yet when he went against Toney Allen, he shut him down...

I don't think a ''shutted down'' player can average 26.4 points on 45% shooting

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2011, 04:40 PM
why you laughing , your a bandwagon, A disgrace :facepalm:



stay classy knicks fans

BklynKnicks3
05-16-2011, 04:40 PM
Durant doesnt face many double teams because of the threat wesbrook presents. Durant gets defended by 6'5 tony allen who in their right mind thinks he can even have a chance vs melo. Melo either scores gets fouled or tony allen take a charge. Lol at people who use stats to compare

sep11ie
05-16-2011, 04:41 PM
If Melo was half as defensive as Knicks fans he'd be the best player in the universe.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2011, 04:41 PM
One guy went up against Boston, without a healthy Amare and Billups.

The other guy went up against Denver and Memphis while having the luxury of Westbrook.

the same Memphis who knocked out SA:laugh2:

And how's westbrook a luxury, he's a distraction for Durant.

sep11ie
05-16-2011, 04:43 PM
I don't think a ''shutted down'' player can average 26.4 points on 45% shooting

I'm gonna have to check my advanced stats, but I don't think shutted is a word.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2011, 04:45 PM
Okay so Per Game stats proves Melo's better and Advanced stats proves Durant is better...

And the numbers are not even close??? Are you kidding me...There basically around the same in most categories.

And of course his playoffs numbers are gonna look better then Melo's...He played more games!

LOL you could say Monta Ellis is as good as Melo because he's putting up same stat as Melo.

per game stat is useless.it is so inflated that it isnt even funny.

allSUAVE
05-16-2011, 04:46 PM
the same Memphis who knocked out SA:laugh2:

And how's westbrook a luxury, he's a distraction for Durant.

stop giving Durant all the credit, he wouldn't be where he's now if it wasn't for Westbrook

smood999
05-16-2011, 04:47 PM
so using ur same advanced statistics from www.basktball-reference.com...i guess a better comparison for melo would be kobe? i guess those 2 r closer than durant and melo but yet most would believe that kobe is better than the 2.......correct me if im interpreting these numbets incorrectly, afterall the issue w most between melo and durant is efficiency so like i said then using that durant is way better than the 2 and melo and kobe r close

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 04:47 PM
the same Memphis who knocked out SA:laugh2:

And how's westbrook a luxury, he's a distraction for Durant.

Didn't Manu miss a game and played injured?

Is Tim Ducan getting any younger?

Do the Spurs have a Center?

SteveNash
05-16-2011, 04:49 PM
the same Memphis who knocked out SA:laugh2:

And how's westbrook a luxury, he's a distraction for Durant.

How good they are is irrelevant, it's how good they are on defense.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2011, 04:49 PM
stop giving Westbrook all the credit, he wouldn't be where he's now if it wasn't for Durant

fixed

And you know it is this way.Dont even deny it.

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 04:50 PM
Boston Had to Triple team Melo NOT DOUBLE BUT TRIPLE TEAM....The guy scored 42 pts with no help against the Celtics....

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2011, 04:50 PM
Didn't Manu miss a game and played injured?

Is Tim Ducan getting any younger?

Do the Spurs have a Center?

1st seed lmao

SteveNash
05-16-2011, 04:51 PM
fixed

And you know it is this way.Dont even deny it.

Durant's record without Westbrook makes Jordan's record without Pippen look good.

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 04:51 PM
LOL you could say Kobe Bryant is as good as Melo because he's putting up same stat as Melo.

per game stat is useless.it is so inflated that it isnt even funny.

Fixed!

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2011, 04:52 PM
Boston Had to Triple team Melo NOT DOUBLE BUT TRIPLE TEAM....The guy scored 42 pts with no help against the Celtics....

one game :yawn:

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2011, 04:53 PM
so using ur same advanced statistics from www.basktball-reference.com...i guess a better comparison for melo would be kobe? i guess those 2 r closer than durant and melo but yet most would believe that kobe is better than the 2.......correct me if im interpreting these numbets incorrectly, afterall the issue w most between melo and durant is efficiency so like i said then using that durant is way better than the 2 and melo and kobe r close

no

kobe had a big drop off at the end of the season, while he still had .180WS/48

Melo doesn't even come close to that.

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 04:53 PM
1st seed lmao

Was Manu 100%? lmao

Is Tim Duncan in his prime? If you really thought Ducan can guard Randolph now thats just laughable!

C'Mon dude...Grizz already proved they can beat the Spurs in the regular...

gsgs49
05-16-2011, 04:53 PM
I'm gonna have to check my advanced stats, but I don't think shutted is a word.

yes it is I created it few minutes ago :p

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 04:54 PM
one game :yawn:

26 ppg 10 rpg 4.8 apg isn't one game and remind you 3 of those games he didn't have help...Durant has help!;)

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2011, 04:56 PM
Fixed!

wrong lmao

Kobe is in another level than melo.

rockets-fan
05-16-2011, 04:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfurCV1FDpM

end of discussion....

allSUAVE
05-16-2011, 04:56 PM
Durant would not be where he is if it wasn't for russell westbrook, not even close w/o him

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2011, 04:57 PM
Durant's record without Westbrook makes Jordan's record without Pippen look good.

oh dear lord:facepalm:

Hawkeye15
05-16-2011, 04:57 PM
Posting this one more time. I understand most of the NBA forum posters have the attention span of a goldfish, but read this, and it explains all you need to know about Melo



Carmelo Anthony has averaged 20 points per game every season since he arrived in the NBA. This past campaign, he became the third-youngest player ever to reach the 10,000-point plateau, behind only Kobe Bryant and LeBron James. And next summer, he could hit the open market as an unrestricted free agent.

But despite all those gaudy point totals, the three-time All-Star may not even be worth the max deal a team would likely give him in 2011.


At first glance, Anthony seems like a member of the NBA's elite, largely due to his scoring prowess. But a deeper look at the points column and elsewhere in his game reveals a player who lives on an undeserved reputation more than his actual impact on wins.

It's tough to argue with his 28.2 points-per-game average in '09-10, but in the game of basketball, how a shooter gets his points is more meaningful than the raw number itself. To see that, we need to peel back the layers.

Let's first talk about Anthony's shot volume. It's not exactly a secret that 'Melo likes to shoot the rock, but his propensity to launch shots may raise some eyebrows. This past season, no player in the NBA took more shots per minute than Anthony -- not Kobe, not LeBron, not even scoring champ Kevin Durant.

It may seem obvious that a player worthy of 20 shots per game would have a healthy conversion rate. But in Anthony's case, that's far from the truth. Anthony, in reality, had a below-average field goal percentage (.458) this past season -- and his career percentage (.459) is no different. (The league average is .463.)

The sharp readers out there will point out that traditional field goal percentage doesn't reflect Anthony's shooting ability, since he launches a healthy dose of 3-pointers, which obviously count more on the scoreboard. That's true. But if you've been paying attention, you know Anthony is not a good shooter from beyond the arc, so that doesn't help his case. As a career .308 percent 3-point shooter, his shot from downtown ranks far below the norm (the average small forward shot .349 last season; Melo shot .316) and any progress he seemingly made in 2008-09, when he shot a career-high .371, disappeared. Even if we incorporate the added point bonus of a 3-pointer, the Syracuse product's shooting percentages are, at best, average.

It seems that, anyway we slice it, Anthony is a gunner at the core. His exceptional skill on offense is his ability to get his shot off, whether it's attacking the rim or through a patented pull-up jumper on the perimeter. But interestingly enough, Anthony got his shot blocked a whopping 109 times last season, which ranks as the second-highest total in the league, according to Hoopdata.com. Evidently, he doesn't lack perseverance.

Anthony's case illustrates a fundamental problem in conventional basketball analysis: scoring averages don't reflect efficiency. It's true that Anthony scored 28.2 points per game last season, but it's also true that no player missed more shots as often as Anthony did. Feel free to credit his skill but also pay attention his lofty shot volume and playing time.

And that's before we consider the disguise of team pace. Since Anthony entered the league, the Denver Nuggets have averaged 95.9 possessions per game, which places them as the third -fastest squad in the NBA over that period of time (and just a fraction behind the high-octane Phoenix Suns). Over that same span, the Nuggets have squeezed out an extra four possessions per game when compared to the average NBA team. Do the math, and the Nuggets have enjoyed nearly 2,000 extra possessions above the norm since Anthony joined the NBA. That's a ton of extra opportunities that can pad the per-game stats used as measuring sticks.

So after stripping out the inflationary effect of fast pace and boiling down Anthony's numbers to a per possession level, his scoring punch looks even more pedestrian. How pedestrian? Anthony's career offensive rating, an efficiency measure that calculates how many points a player produces per 100 possessions he uses, checks out at 107, which sits right at the league average. For reference, 2003 draft-mates James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh have earned 114, 111, and 113 lifetime offensive ratings, respectively.

Before we prematurely call Anthony an average player, there is something to be said for the burden of trust. Not every player can still perform while shouldering the heavy scoring responsibility that Anthony has endured. But the Nuggets have probably allowed Anthony to shoot far too often if efficiency -- and winning -- is their goal. In fact, last season Melo was only sixth on his own team in ORtg (110), trailing far behind other legit weapons like Nene (124), Chauncey Billups (120) and Ty Lawson (118).

Aside from scoring, Anthony doesn't have many other bankable weapons as a player. His rebounding (career 6.2 rpg) is only slightly better than what we'd expect from a small forward, and he doesn't create opportunities for his teammates like Paul Pierce, Wade and James can. Furthermore, he hasn't shown the intensity and dedication on the defensive end that you'd want from a max player.

In the end, Anthony's game demonstrates why it's important to strip away the biases that color our perceptions of elite players. In Anthony's case, the excessive shot volume, his team's stat-padding tempo and the lack of a true 3-point game makes his 28.2 ppg seem far less impressive than his sparkling reputation would suggest.

If anything, it's time we moved on from per-game statistics to evaluate our players. Millions of dollars are wasted every year basing player value on the archaic statistics that teams used half a century ago. And someone will surely overpay Anthony and offer him a max contract -- just look at the deals Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay got

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 04:57 PM
wrong lmao

Kobe is in another level than melo.

Has been a better clutch player in Kobe in 5 years...

magichatnumber9
05-16-2011, 04:58 PM
I can't fathom how T mac got into this discussion. He sucks

allSUAVE
05-16-2011, 04:58 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfurCV1FDpM

end of discussion....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukfnN2j34aE

just look how dominant he scores, so versatile, post moves everything !!

gsgs49
05-16-2011, 04:59 PM
People saying Westbrook is making it easier for Durant are wrong.
Westbrook isn't Chris Paul or Steve Nash.He's hurting Durant numbers a lot.
Durant had much better season individually in 2010 when Westbrook wasn't an all star yet.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2011, 04:59 PM
Was Manu 100%? lmao

Is Tim Duncan in his prime? If you really thought Ducan can guard Randolph now thats just laughable!

C'Mon dude...Grizz already proved they can beat the Spurs in the regular...

so you think it was not an upset....wow

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 04:59 PM
oh dear lord:facepalm:

Please you take westbrook out the team probably wouldn't make it out the first round!

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2011, 05:00 PM
Durant would not be where he is if it wasn't for russell westbrook, not even close w/o him

you mean the winning or the stats would be worse without westbrook?

Jewelz0376
05-16-2011, 05:02 PM
Melo just hasn't been the same scorer since my man AI left him :D

Hawkeye15
05-16-2011, 05:02 PM
Has been a better clutch player in Kobe in 5 years...

better in closing moments, for sure. Not in the last few minutes of a tight game.

They are not comparable, because Kobe plays defense. I do think, as Kobe has declined, they are offensively closer now than Durant and Melo.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=bryanko01&y1=2011&p2=anthoca01&y2=2011

You also have to look at what their production does. Kobe's leads to more wins, hence a higher win share, EWA, and any other metric known to man.

We are also comparing Kobe with 1500 games on his knees to a prime Melo, which obviously helps Melo big time here.

But no, Kobe is still clearly better. He and Melo are both somewhat struggling to be efficient scorers, but Kobe's huge advantage defensively makes this an easy call

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2011, 05:03 PM
Posting this one more time. I understand most of the NBA forum posters have the attention span of a goldfish, but read this, and it explains all you need to know about Melo

excellent read:clap:

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 05:04 PM
so you think it was not an upset....wow

No and the OKC playoff series proved it....The fact they took them to 7 games just shows Grizz are good...and they match up well against the Spurs...Who's guarding Randolph and Gasol on the Spurs???:confused:

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2011, 05:04 PM
If anything, it's time we moved on from per-game statistics to evaluate our players. Millions of dollars are wasted every year basing player value on the archaic statistics that teams used half a century ago. And someone will surely overpay Anthony and offer him a max contract -- just look at the deals Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay got

x1000000

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 05:06 PM
better in closing moments, for sure. Not in the last few minutes of a tight game.

They are not comparable, because Kobe plays defense. I do think, as Kobe has declined, they are offensively closer now than Durant and Melo.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=bryanko01&y1=2011&p2=anthoca01&y2=2011

You also have to look at what their production does. Kobe's leads to more wins, hence a higher win share, EWA, and any other metric known to man.

We are also comparing Kobe with 1500 games on his knees to a prime Melo, which obviously helps Melo big time here.

But no, Kobe is still clearly better. He and Melo are both somewhat struggling to be efficient scorers, but Kobe's huge advantage defensively makes this an easy call


Im not saying Melo's better then Kobe...Hell no...Kobe is better then Melo period...But in clutches moments, MAINLY hitting clutch shots..Melo wins!

Hawkeye15
05-16-2011, 05:07 PM
No and the OKC playoff series proved it....The fact they took them to 7 games just shows Grizz are good...and they match up well against the Spurs...Who's guarding Randolph and Gasol on the Spurs???:confused:

well, Manu shouldn't have even been playing on that elbow, and Duncan looked like a shell of his former self. One must remember as well, the Spurs defied the odds in the category of winning close games. Statistically, they should not have had quite that many wins, and Memphis, once they finally moved Allen into the starting lineup, and before Gay went down, were really beating people up. It wasn't as big of an upset (though it was an upset), as many think. And yes, the Grizz could have been the #7 seed, but figured they had a better chance against the older, slower front lineup of the Spurs, and they were right

allSUAVE
05-16-2011, 05:07 PM
x1000000

overpay for the best offensive scorer in the league..be quite

dont but Joe Johnson in the same sentence as Melo or u getting blocked

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2011, 05:07 PM
Has been a better clutch player in Kobe in 5 years...

so...

I'd take 47 minutes over 1 minutes.

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 05:09 PM
well, Manu shouldn't have even been playing on that elbow, and Duncan looked like a shell of his former self. One must remember as well, the Spurs defied the odds in the category of winning close games. Statistically, they should not have had quite that many wins, and Memphis, once they finally moved Allen into the starting lineup, and before Gay went down, were really beating people up. It wasn't as big of an upset (though it was an upset), as many think. And yes, the Grizz could have been the #7 seed, but figured they had a better chance against the older, slower front lineup of the Spurs, and they were right

This...

People overreact, It wasn't an upset!

Hawkeye15
05-16-2011, 05:10 PM
Im not saying Melo's better then Kobe...Hell no...Kobe is better then Melo period...But in clutches moments, MAINLY hitting clutch shots..Melo wins!

for sure dude. Melo hits a higher percentage of game winning shots than anyone. Part of that is due to the WAY he gets those shots. Anyone knows creating off isolations is a lower percentage many times, because the defense can build a wall against that type (Kobe, LeBron, etc). But Melo would come off play action, thru screens, and off set plays, and had Billups, Andre Miller, and a few others that got him the ball. Melo had better looks, but I am not trying to take anything away from him here. He sets himself up better for last second attempts than most.

Obviously, I think there are probably 8-11 players better than Melo. But if I had 7 seconds to go, down 1, there isn't a player in the NBA I would take over Melo.

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 05:10 PM
so...

I'd take 47 minutes over 1 minutes.

Kool so if you down by one with 3 seconds on the clock...GOOD LUCK!

rockets-fan
05-16-2011, 05:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukfnN2j34aE

just look how dominant he scores, so versatile, post moves everything !!

yes that was great, but come on now, 33 in a 12 minutes versus the wolves or 13 in 35 seconds including a game winner and a 4 point play versus the SAN ANTONIO SPURS...they were awesome at that time...prime duncan...

i say tmac, heres my justification, there was more competition when he was in his prime, you had prime shaq,duncan,kobe,iverson,garnet,allen,pierce,kid,d irk....they were all in there prime and those guys are better than the competiton durant plays against....he only has to deal with lebron,wade,howrd thats are superstars like those guys above in their prime...plus tmac and yao never had any good players....put prime tmac and yao on the current rockets roster and they murder most teams...

allSUAVE
05-16-2011, 05:12 PM
And Melo didn't have a good year

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 05:12 PM
for sure dude. Melo hits a higher percentage of game winning shots than anyone. Part of that is due to the WAY he gets those shots. Anyone knows creating off isolations is a lower percentage many times, because the defense can build a wall against that type (Kobe, LeBron, etc). But Melo would come off play action, thru screens, and off set plays, and had Billups, Andre Miller, and a few others that got him the ball. Melo had better looks, but I am not trying to take anything away from him here. He sets himself up better for last second attempts than most.

Obviously, I think there are probably 8-11 players better than Melo. But if I had 7 seconds to go, down 1, there isn't a player in the NBA I would take over Melo.

This again...Your definitely hitting it on the nail!

Hawkeye15
05-16-2011, 05:12 PM
overpay for the best offensive scorer in the league..be quite

dont but Joe Johnson in the same sentence as Melo or u getting blocked

he pulled it from the post I used. The point is, GM's using archaic, per game stats, to determine worth, is a HUGE mistake that shouldn't be happening anymore. Yet, it does. And that is why there are teams and GM's that will never get it.

smood999
05-16-2011, 05:14 PM
Carmelo Anthony has averaged 20 points per game every season since he arrived in the NBA. This past campaign, he became the third-youngest player ever to reach the 10,000-point plateau, behind only Kobe Bryant and LeBron James. And next summer, he could hit the open market as an unrestricted free agent.

But despite all those gaudy point totals, the three-time All-Star may not even be worth the max deal a team would likely give him in 2011.


At first glance, Anthony seems like a member of the NBA's elite, largely due to his scoring prowess. But a deeper look at the points column and elsewhere in his game reveals a player who lives on an undeserved reputation more than his actual impact on wins.

It's tough to argue with his 28.2 points-per-game average in '09-10, but in the game of basketball, how a shooter gets his points is more meaningful than the raw number itself. To see that, we need to peel back the layers.

Let's first talk about Anthony's shot volume. It's not exactly a secret that 'Melo likes to shoot the rock, but his propensity to launch shots may raise some eyebrows. This past season, no player in the NBA took more shots per minute than Anthony -- not Kobe, not LeBron, not even scoring champ Kevin Durant.

It may seem obvious that a player worthy of 20 shots per game would have a healthy conversion rate. But in Anthony's case, that's far from the truth. Anthony, in reality, had a below-average field goal percentage (.458) this past season -- and his career percentage (.459) is no different. (The league average is .463.)
The sharp readers out there will point out that traditional field goal percentage doesn't reflect Anthony's shooting ability, since he launches a healthy dose of 3-pointers, which obviously count more on the scoreboard. That's true. But if you've been paying attention, you know Anthony is not a good shooter from beyond the arc, so that doesn't help his case. As a career .308 percent 3-point shooter, his shot from downtown ranks far below the norm (the average small forward shot .349 last season; Melo shot .316) and any progress he seemingly made in 2008-09, when he shot a career-high .371, disappeared. Even if we incorporate the added point bonus of a 3-pointer, the Syracuse product's shooting percentages are, at best, average.

It seems that, anyway we slice it, Anthony is a gunner at the core. His exceptional skill on offense is his ability to get his shot off, whether it's attacking the rim or through a patented pull-up jumper on the perimeter. But interestingly enough, Anthony got his shot blocked a whopping 109 times last season, which ranks as the second-highest total in the league, according to Hoopdata.com. Evidently, he doesn't lack perseverance.

Anthony's case illustrates a fundamental problem in conventional basketball analysis: scoring averages don't reflect efficiency. It's true that Anthony scored 28.2 points per game last season, but it's also true that no player missed more shots as often as Anthony did. Feel free to credit his skill but also pay attention his lofty shot volume and playing time.

And that's before we consider the disguise of team pace. Since Anthony entered the league, the Denver Nuggets have averaged 95.9 possessions per game, which places them as the third -fastest squad in the NBA over that period of time (and just a fraction behind the high-octane Phoenix Suns). Over that same span, the Nuggets have squeezed out an extra four possessions per game when compared to the average NBA team. Do the math, and the Nuggets have enjoyed nearly 2,000 extra possessions above the norm since Anthony joined the NBA. That's a ton of extra opportunities that can pad the per-game stats used as measuring sticks.

So after stripping out the inflationary effect of fast pace and boiling down Anthony's numbers to a per possession level, his scoring punch looks even more pedestrian. How pedestrian? Anthony's career offensive rating, an efficiency measure that calculates how many points a player produces per 100 possessions he uses, checks out at 107, which sits right at the league average. For reference, 2003 draft-mates James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh have earned 114, 111, and 113 lifetime offensive ratings, respectively.

Before we prematurely call Anthony an average player, there is something to be said for the burden of trust. Not every player can still perform while shouldering the heavy scoring responsibility that Anthony has endured. But the Nuggets have probably allowed Anthony to shoot far too often if efficiency -- and winning -- is their goal. In fact, last season Melo was only sixth on his own team in ORtg (110), trailing far behind other legit weapons like Nene (124), Chauncey Billups (120) and Ty Lawson (118).

Aside from scoring, Anthony doesn't have many other bankable weapons as a player. His rebounding (career 6.2 rpg) is only slightly better than what we'd expect from a small forward, and he doesn't create opportunities for his teammates like Paul Pierce, Wade and James can. Furthermore, he hasn't shown the intensity and dedication on the defensive end that you'd want from a max player.
In the end, Anthony's game demonstrates why it's important to strip away the biases that color our perceptions of elite players. In Anthony's case, the excessive shot volume, his team's stat-padding tempo and the lack of a true 3-point game makes his 28.2 ppg seem far less impressive than his sparkling reputation would suggest.

If anything, it's time we moved on from per-game statistics to evaluate our players. Millions of dollars are wasted every year basing player value on the archaic statistics that teams used half a century ago. And someone will surely overpay Anthony and offer him a max contract -- just look at the deals Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay got


durant .462 fg%

melo this past season .378 behind the arc...the.316 season was one season in between .354, .371, and .378 (looking at that the .316 was an abberation as it is below his career avg of .320)...he struggled in his early yrs but this article was not pointing that out..he has become a better 3 pt shooter and better than durants .350 this past season and also may i add durant shot more 3's a game...so whos more efficient in that regards? melo .354 the past 4 seasons...durant .357

reb since 07-08 season:
07-08 - 7.4
08-09 - 6.8
09-10 - 6.6
10-11 - 7.3..playoffs this past season 10.3
career playoff avg 7.3
avg since 07 - 7.0
durants career reb avg 6.3...the same 6.3 or 6.2 this article criticizes melo for having

yes melo shoots more shots per game and a smaller amount of minutes but shoots it at about the same percentage...durant plays more min and shoots more threes which explains the higher ppg avg

durant creates? durant career high in ast is 2.8 career avg 2.7 since durants been in the league melo has eclipsed the 2.8 career high of durant every yr and his career avg is 3.1, matter fact melo has eclipsed the 2.8 every yr except 1 in his career including a career high of 3.8 and 4.8 this past playoffs passing to the knicks bench

and durant has as far as defense?

this article can easily be used against durant as well...this guy is not using advanced statistics he's moreso breaking down the individual statistics..so therefore one can assume he's say the same about durant or just change the article completely and base it off of all advanced stats to favor durant

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2011, 05:15 PM
Kool so if you down by one with 3 seconds on the clock...GOOD LUCK!

If we had Melo instead of Kobe we would be down more than one dude.

allSUAVE
05-16-2011, 05:17 PM
he pulled it from the post I used. The point is, GM's using archaic, per game stats, to determine worth, is a HUGE mistake that shouldn't be happening anymore. Yet, it does. And that is why there are teams and GM's that will never get it.

OK I See it now.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2011, 05:17 PM
And Melo didn't have a good year

As a knick, it was the best stint of his career.

Highest TS% EFG% PER WS etc

smood999
05-16-2011, 05:17 PM
the article posted by hawkeye just plug in durants name where melos is and durants numbers where melos is and u have the same argument

PlezPlayDKnicks
05-16-2011, 05:18 PM
What exactly has Durant done that Melo has not. The numbers have them real close. Durant is not a great passer or individual defender. Melo def has flaws and as a knick fan it's obvious he can expand his game. He can go toe to toe with any star and dominate. Denver was trash b4 Melo and he made them worth watching for years with the absence of another all star for years. Has Melo played with other stars. But it's ok.. Psd worships the flava of the month. Kevin love , Blake Griff, Zach, and every1 else gets credit tho..

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 05:19 PM
If we had Melo instead of Kobe we would be down more than one dude.

Really becasue Melo was averaging 50 + wins almost every year...so basically he doesn't lose alot of games!

Hawkeye15
05-16-2011, 05:21 PM
durant .462 fg%

melo this past season .378 behind the arc...the.316 season was one season in between .354, .371, and .378 (looking at that the .316 was an abberation as it is below his career avg of .320)...he struggled in his early yrs but this article was not pointing that out..he has become a better 3 pt shooter and better than durants .350 this past season and also may i add durant shot more 3's a game...so whos more efficient in that regards? melo .354 the past 4 seasons...durant .357

reb since 07-08 season:
07-08 - 7.4
08-09 - 6.8
09-10 - 6.6
10-11 - 7.3..playoffs this past season 10.3
career playoff avg 7.3
avg since 07 - 7.0
durants career reb avg 6.3...the same 6.3 or 6.2 this article criticizes melo for having

yes melo shoots more shots per game and a smaller amount of minutes but shoots it at about the same percentage...durant plays more min and shoots more threes which explains the higher ppg avg

durant creates? durant career high in ast is 2.8 career avg 2.7 since durants been in the league melo has eclipsed the 2.8 career high of durant every yr and his career avg is 3.1, matter fact melo has eclipsed the 2.8 every yr except 1 in his career including a career high of 3.8 and 4.8 this past playoffs passing to the knicks bench

and durant has as far as defense?

this article can easily be used against durant as well...this guy is not using advanced statistics he's moreso breaking down the individual statistics..so therefore one can assume he's say the same about durant or just change the article completely and base it off of all advanced stats to favor durant


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=duranke01&y1=2011&p2=anthoca01&y2=2011

No, he does use advanced statistics. Look at the TS% (the best way to measure scoring efficiency), the eFG%, the offensive ratings, the win shares. Durant smacks him around in all of it.

Durant is also 4 years younger, and will make $20 million less over the next 5 years.

The post is basically breaking down why Carmelo Anthony (not comparing him to others, only bringing up others in statistical comparisons for reasoning), is not worth the max.

They both have identical roles. Score from the wing position. One does it more efficiently than the other by quite a bit. Neither is a great rebounder, defender, or distributor. They do the exact same thing. Only one does it better

smood999
05-16-2011, 05:21 PM
and while i dont think westbrook makes durant like some r suggesting he does make it easier as far as scoring load etc...melo didnt have anyone as far as scoring load on those nuggets team like westbrook...he had iverson for a brief stint but just like we've seen how westbrook was damaging to durant at times during the playoffs iverson was like that the whole time in denver...a true measurement will be to see how melo plays w the knicks due to amare being there....and its already shown that his numbers have took a major jump percentage wise and all since joining the knicks

Hawkeye15
05-16-2011, 05:22 PM
the article posted by hawkeye just plug in durants name where melos is and durants numbers where melos is and u have the same argument

sorry, that isn't the truth. Not even close actually.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-16-2011, 05:23 PM
Really becasue Melo was averaging 50 + wins almost every year...so basically he doesn't lose alot of games!

Kobe is better than Melo the first 47 minutes of the game and logically if he's better whe would not be down by one lol.

Hawkeye15
05-16-2011, 05:23 PM
What exactly has Durant done that Melo has not. The numbers have them real close. Durant is not a great passer or individual defender. Melo def has flaws and as a knick fan it's obvious he can expand his game. He can go toe to toe with any star and dominate. Denver was trash b4 Melo and he made them worth watching for years with the absence of another all star for years. Has Melo played with other stars. But it's ok.. Psd worships the flava of the month. Kevin love , Blake Griff, Zach, and every1 else gets credit tho..

instead of sorting thru all this garbage, read my posts, and I did the best I could to explain it. If you would like to respond to any of them, let me have it. You are one of the many Knicks fans that I actually like debating with.

smood999
05-16-2011, 05:24 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=duranke01&y1=2011&p2=anthoca01&y2=2011

No, he does use advanced statistics. Look at the TS% (the best way to measure scoring efficiency), the eFG%, the offensive ratings, the win shares. Durant smacks him around in all of it.

Durant is also 4 years younger, and will make $20 million less over the next 5 years.

The post is basically breaking down why Carmelo Anthony (not comparing him to others, only bringing up others in statistical comparisons for reasoning), is not worth the max.

They both have identical roles. Score from the wing position. One does it more efficiently than the other by quite a bit. Neither is a great rebounder, defender, or distributor. They do the exact same thing. Only one does it better

they r not identical roles just due to the fact that durant has another 20 pt a game scorer...from what i highlighted in bold which was the major arguments..he was using melos career numbers etc...all im saying is substitute durants name with melos and durants numbers with melos and the article would read the same...advanced stats wise i know that durant is ahead of melo but as far as this article goes u can make the substitution and bring on the same arguments...and idk if uve read my posts before im not saying melo is better i just hate the notion that the difference either way between the 2 is that big or that noticeable

PlezPlayDKnicks
05-16-2011, 05:24 PM
Nobody will reply to this because Melo has reached his ceiling and never expand his game. He's to old to change :eyebrow:.. Durant and Melo are similar offensively and defensively yet he's not in the convo.


durant .462 fg%

melo this past season .378 behind the arc...the.316 season was one season in between .354, .371, and .378 (looking at that the .316 was an abberation as it is below his career avg of .320)...he struggled in his early yrs but this article was not pointing that out..he has become a better 3 pt shooter and better than durants .350 this past season and also may i add durant shot more 3's a game...so whos more efficient in that regards? melo .354 the past 4 seasons...durant .357

reb since 07-08 season:
07-08 - 7.4
08-09 - 6.8
09-10 - 6.6
10-11 - 7.3..playoffs this past season 10.3
career playoff avg 7.3
avg since 07 - 7.0
durants career reb avg 6.3...the same 6.3 or 6.2 this article criticizes melo for having

yes melo shoots more shots per game and a smaller amount of minutes but shoots it at about the same percentage...durant plays more min and shoots more threes which explains the higher ppg avg

durant creates? durant career high in ast is 2.8 career avg 2.7 since durants been in the league melo has eclipsed the 2.8 career high of durant every yr and his career avg is 3.1, matter fact melo has eclipsed the 2.8 every yr except 1 in his career including a career high of 3.8 and 4.8 this past playoffs passing to the knicks bench

and durant has as far as defense?

this article can easily be used against durant as well...this guy is not using advanced statistics he's moreso breaking down the individual statistics..so therefore one can assume he's say the same about durant or just change the article completely and base it off of all advanced stats to favor durant

smood999
05-16-2011, 05:25 PM
the article does make valid points...but it also is taking in melo his entire career...if u take melo from yr 4 or 5 on...these arguments would be completely different

Hawkeye15
05-16-2011, 05:30 PM
and while i dont think westbrook makes durant like some r suggesting he does make it easier as far as scoring load etc...melo didnt have anyone as far as scoring load on those nuggets team like westbrook...he had iverson for a brief stint but just like we've seen how westbrook was damaging to durant at times during the playoffs iverson was like that the whole time in denver...a true measurement will be to see how melo plays w the knicks due to amare being there....and its already shown that his numbers have took a major jump percentage wise and all since joining the knicks

why do some think if a player doesn't have another 20 ppg scorer, he doesn't have offensive help? Melo had a ton of help from day 1 dude. He had interior defenders in Camby, Nene, Anderson, etc. Scoring options in Smith, Billups, Iverson. Distributors in Miller, Billups, and Lawson. He has had great help actually. Westbrook has only finally developed, and still has a long way to go before he is on Billups level from a few years ago, and Durant has nothing down low to take pressure of guarding the line when you play with him, and pushing him off his spots, because he has zero to dump it down to.

You can't just blindly make posts without thinking them through guys. Melo walked into a VERY upgraded roster his first year. A healthy Camby, Andre Miller traded there, Nene as a youngster, Voshon Leonard with a career year out of nowhere, and 6 players with a PER over 15. They were waaaaaay more stacked than the prior year, when their top 3 players were Juwan Howard (there only player with a PER over 15), James Posey, and a rookie Nene as their only double digit scorers.

Don't act like Melo didnt walk into a completely upgraded roster, and have help his whole career in Denver.

Hell, Melo was so bad his first playoffs, Voshon Leonard was easily their best playoff performer.

Hawkeye15
05-16-2011, 05:32 PM
they r not identical roles just due to the fact that durant has another 20 pt a game scorer...from what i highlighted in bold which was the major arguments..he was using melos career numbers etc...all im saying is substitute durants name with melos and durants numbers with melos and the article would read the same...advanced stats wise i know that durant is ahead of melo but as far as this article goes u can make the substitution and bring on the same arguments...and idk if uve read my posts before im not saying melo is better i just hate the notion that the difference either way between the 2 is that big or that noticeable

their roles are to be the team's primary scorer. Should we take Melo's play from the Knicks away because he now has a 20 ppg post player? No, of course not.

They have the same roles. Score the basketball from the SF position any way possible.

The difference is simply efficiency. Period. There is a large gap in the WAY they score, versus the end results, which would be the per game numbers.

GiantsSwaGG
05-16-2011, 05:32 PM
Kobe is better than Melo the first 47 minutes of the game and logically if he's better whe would not be down by one lol.

And Melo's team wouldn't be down by one either so whats your point

smood999
05-16-2011, 05:35 PM
Wednesday, March 3, 2010
Melo vs. Durant: Who's better?

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By David Thorpe
Scouts Inc.



Look at the top three scorers in the NBA. Right behind LeBron James, the league's best player, are two special guys with some common threads running between them. Both are small forwards on playoff-bound teams. Both had historic one-and-done runs in college: Carmelo Anthony led Syracuse to an incredible national title run, and Kevin Durant dominated college hoops as few freshmen ever have. And both learned hoops in famously tough and talented basketball hotbeds: Melo in Baltimore and Durant a short ride away in Washington. With LeBron, the reigning MVP, known more for his point forward skills and power forward physique, Melo and KD are the two best pure 3s in the game.

Durant and Melo have one more thing in common: Neither had made much of a splash in the NBA other than as a prolific scorer -- until this season, when each has expanded his game.

So as they face off Wednesday night, we have to ask: Who's better overall? Who has what it takes to stand astride the Western Conference for the next decade?

We're rating them in seven categories on a scale of 0 to 10. A 10 means world-class level, with a 5 representing a league-average score. (Note: We used this scoring system instead of the 10-point must system used in the Kobe-LeBron breakdown so that we could more accurately represent Anthony's and Durant's weaknesses.)

Category No. 1: Shooting

Despite Anthony's reputation as more of a power scorer, and Durant's being known for his silky smooth shot, these players are very similar as shooters.


Durant's shot shows a great follow-through and good balance most of the time. He also does an excellent job of keeping his right hand under the ball while faking and jabbing. This allows for a quicker release because it keeps his right wrist cocked and ready to fire, and it's one of the most difficult concepts to learn.

The majority of his jump shots come from the midrange area, where he's connecting on about 40 percent this season. It's a good showing, but not great. In comparison, Dirk Nowitzki makes about 48 percent of his midrange shots and Kobe Bryant has surged to 46 percent (ahead of James, who's also at 40 percent). Still, Durant uses his size and length perfectly here, usually keeping the ball high throughout the shot to make it extremely difficult for defenders to make a play on the ball.

From the 3-point line, he's shooting 38.2 percent on about four attempts per game. Surprisingly, he's at his best from the wings and top of the key (over 42 percent) and weakest from the corners (under 20 percent). To his credit, though, he rarely takes the corner shots, given those struggles.

Anthony, meanwhile, has a great-looking, compact delivery with a quick release and good follow-through. Like Durant, he's been making about 40 percent of his midrange shots. But unlike Durant, he often sweeps the ball well below his knees before driving or shooting -- this technique makes it more difficult to shoot correctly. If he kept the ball closer to his core, he might improve significantly as a midrange shooter.

Melo doesn't take as many 3s as Durant or shoot as high a percentage (34 percent) -- he often struggles to complete his shooting form from this distance.

This category is closer than I expected, but Durant's 3-point edge gives him the round.

Durant 8, Anthony 7


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Category No. 2: Scoring

This is actually where their games are the most divergent. Melo is blessed with the rare combination of power and quickness that LeBron shares and Shaquille O'Neal had when he was the most dominant player in basketball. And Anthony incorporates great timing into his attacks, making it hard for defenders to anticipate his moves.

He can make enough perimeter shots to beat you, and he has a great first step off the triple-threat position, enabling him to get into the paint frequently, as well as to the foul line. He earns about 10 free throw attempts a game and is shooting 82.9 percent from the stripe this season.


Melo has a well-crafted post game, too, and he uses it like a hammer. He loves to seal smaller players inside after screens or cuts, and most other small forwards are too weak or small to handle it.

Thanks to that lethal combination of posting and slashing, and his two offensive rebounds per game, Melo takes the majority of his shots from the paint, even though a large percentage of his possessions begin on the perimeter -- and he makes about 58 percent of his paint shots. This could be better, but Melo doesn't explode to the rim quite as often as he used to.

Durant might not have Melo's physical presence, but he's lethal nonetheless. He's brilliantly crafty at using his length to draw fouls, a skill that gets him to the free throw line just as often as Melo. And Durant is a slightly better free throw shooter, at 88.3 percent.

Because he's often pressed on the perimeter by aggressive defenders -- or by guys who are hotly closing out on him -- he gets ample opportunities to drive, and he does so frequently. Although he doesn't get into the deep part of the paint as often as Melo, Durant has, surprisingly, been finishing better inside: He's making 62 percent of his paint shots. Durant also uses a strong pull-up game from just inside the free throw line.

Ultimately, KD's unique combination of size, length, agility, skills and feel makes him practically unguardable for most defenders.

Still, no NBA player has a better offensive mix of weapons than Anthony. Driving, shooting, posting, cutting, racing the floor, crashing the boards and drawing fouls -- Melo uses the whole array of options, which is why he often has his best games against the league's best defenses and scores proficiently in late-game situations.

As their stats and skills tell us, these two are elite scorers.

Durant 10, Anthony 10


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Category No. 3: Making teammates better

In my previous player versus player breakdown, I compared James and Bryant, and this is one category in which you can see what sets those two apart from Anthony and Durant. Kobe is a great scorer who is also a gifted passer, and LeBron could go down as the best wing passer/scorer ever. Anthony and Durant, in contrast, are not at that level when it comes to helping teammates.

Neither Melo nor KD is especially good at seeing angles for teammates and anticipating movements by the defense, except as it relates to finding an opening for his own bucket-getting. That's not to say these two are ball hogs, because they're not, but their scoring talents are far ahead of their passing skills.

We know they can find teammates -- each has recorded eight assists in a game this season -- but it is not a strength of either guy yet. They miss too many opportunities to get teammates the ball in great spots.

Of course, there are other ways they help their teammates: Both create scoring opportunities for others simply by working hard on offense and drawing the attention of the defense, as well as by not forcing the action when double-teamed, but rather kicking the ball back out and letting their teammates play 4-on-3.

But overall, Melo and KD are pretty ordinary in this facet of the game.

Anthony 6, Durant 5


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Category No. 4: On-the-ball defense

Anthony is a more willing defender than he used to be. In the past, I rarely saw the same level of intensity on defense that I saw on offense. Now he seems more willing to stick his whole head and body into a play to break it up, and to close out on a shooter who isn't his primary responsibility. He also is making more of an effort to be disruptive to ball handlers and shooters by swiping and pawing at the ball while moving his feet. He has had two or more steals in a game 17 times this season and has a chance to set a career high in takeaways.


Still, he has some bad habits to break on defense. He rarely gets his hand up early to contest the shot on closeouts. Perhaps even worse, he often is caught watching the ball, forcing him to turn and try to catch up with his man.

He also struggles to slide in his defensive stance, especially to his left, and he stands up in his stance almost all the time rather than getting low. And he gets stuck on screens more than he should, considering how strong and nimble he is.

Like Anthony, Durant has improved on defense, and the improvement has come quickly, thanks to both mental adjustments and his great length for his position. He's likely to set a personal best in steals this season, and maybe blocks, too. On most plays, he contests shots with an outstretched hand, and relative to Anthony, who takes plays off at times, Durant rests on fewer defensive possessions.

But he is not close to being a strong on-ball defender yet. He needs to be able to continue sliding when he is guarding a hard dribble drive. And like Melo, he too often gets caught with his back to his man when he's helping instead of staying sideways to make recovery easier.

Durant 7, Anthony 6


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Category No. 5: Secondary defender

Good defense begins with what we call "starting position." It's vital to begin a possession in the right place, based on where the offensive players are and where the ball is. A defense is doomed by poor starting position.

Melo and Durant have been doing a great job in this area this season, which is half the battle as secondary defenders. They typically move off their man and toward the ball at the onset of a play. Melo might be a bit better at showing on the ball side as the play begins, making Denver's defense look more formidable by crowding the side of the floor where the ball is.

But things go downhill for both players after that. Neither is alert in help defense, and they spend more time standing or floating around than trying to stop the other team from scoring.

This is pretty typical for monster scorers who exert lots of energy on offense and want to avoid fouls. Anthony and Durant do the latter by frequently not jamming cutters, pinching drivers or doubling post threats. Fortunately, they have coaches and teammates who are aware of their roles and do whatever they can to make up for Anthony and Durant on defense.

Durant 5, Anthony 5


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Category No. 6: Rebounding

Durant is pretty locked in as a defensive rebounder. That's needed because the Thunder don't get a lot of rebounding from the bigs and are below-average as a defensive rebounding team. Only three small forwards -- James, Gerald Wallace and Matt Barnes -- have a better defensive rebound rate than Durant. He isn't as physical or dominant as James or Wallace, doesn't box out especially well and still rebounds mostly in his own area, but he is willing. With his length and great hands, that's enough.


The same can't be said for Durant's efforts on the offensive glass, though that's by design. The Thunder's starting guards, Russell Westbrook and Thabo Sefolosha, crash the glass and are two of the best offensive rebounders at their respective positions, meaning Durant has to get back on defense. So although his offensive rebound rate is very low for a small forward, that's OK within the team's scheme, and Durant is able to preserve energy and fouls by not going hard after offensive boards.

Denver wisely employs a different approach for Melo. He's a beast on the offensive glass, pushing and fighting smaller guys and punishing them with easy buckets this way. He's not always locked in, but when he's on his game, it's a big part of who he is and what makes him an all-time great scorer.

Denver is a poor defensive rebounding team, and Melo is a poor defensive rebounder. It seems likely he could be better if it mattered more to him. As strong a season as the Nuggets are having, improving at rebounding would only help their cause, and getting more than 4.2 defensive rebounds a game from their best player could make a big difference.

Melo's work on the offensive glass has an impact on the game, but Durant's contributions on the defensive boards are stronger, and that's a big reason the Thunder are a better rebounding team than the Nuggets.

Durant 6, Anthony 5

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Category No. 7: Intangibles

Melo has never been known as someone who inspires teammates. It's just not in his personality: He can shut down or get petulant when he's unhappy. That said, he also can affect his teammates with his performance and his confidence, and they know what to do in many late-game situations: Get Melo the ball. They know he can carry them, and that attribute alone can help the team get on the same page.

Team togetherness in Denver also is helped by the fact that Anthony and Nuggets coach George Karl know each other well and by the fact that Melo has changed in both body and attitude in his time under Karl. So with his superstar buying in, Karl has an easier time getting everyone else to do the same.

Another intangible Melo brings is his ability to affect opponents, specifically the guys who have to guard him. He's one of the toughest covers in the league, physical and often relentless, the kind of player who can really turn it on when he knows he has an opponent who is helpless to defend him.

Durant is more the classic "wolf in sheep's clothing" type of player. He seems to get along with everyone and to be in lockstep with his coaches, and he's not really a fire-breathing leader. But his youthful physique and easygoing persona mask his hunger to dominate. As a scorer, he brings it every night, every possession. He might never be like LeBron or Kobe, two of the strongest personalities in the NBA, but he can be just as effective in his own way.

So even though we recognize and applaud the growth we have seen in Melo over the years, Durant gets the category.

Durant 7, Anthony 5


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Conclusion


Final tally: Durant 48, Melo 44

When I started breaking down video for these guys, the first thing that jumped out was just how ordinary they both can be when they're not in shooting/scoring mode. These guys are special players, but at this point, Melo and KD are not in the class of LeBron, Kobe or Dwyane Wade as all-around talents.

We constantly hear about "two-way players" or guys who "do it all," but there are very few of those players. Still, both Anthony and Durant can, in the right situation, carry a team through the playoffs and be the best player on a championship team. That puts them in select company.

Melo is more locked in on defense than he's ever been, more willing to give up his body for a stop (he's always been willing to do that for a bucket), and more patient with the ebbs and flows of the game. There is no reason to think he cannot make further progress as a passer, help defender and defensive rebounder.

Durant, of course, is far from his peak. Yet he's already one of the very best 21-year-olds in NBA history and better all-around than Melo, which alone is impressive. And this season, Durant might finish as high as second (to LeBron) in the Most Valuable Player voting and play in a couple of playoff series.

Furthermore, if he can minimize his weaknesses in future seasons while developing his strengths, it's entirely possible he can defeat the King for both the award and the ring.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=thorpe_david&page=KDMelo-100303

this was last yr breaking down the 2..this is just through watching both through extensive video...the one thing that would def change is the rebounding edge to durant, i dont even know how he got that at the time...but this is just to show regardless of whos on top that these 2 players r very very very close

Hawkeye15
05-16-2011, 05:37 PM
whoa, thats a lot. Will read it later and respond homie