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MiamiBoy77
05-14-2011, 01:57 PM
http://*************/2011/05/top-5-players-at-each-position/

This lists makes me realize a lot. The kings have 2 players on the list (on that just missed one to look out for), GS has 2 players, and the Center position is really weak. Its also crazy to think about the potential of the 76ers.

johnwayne
05-14-2011, 02:25 PM
Joe Johnson? Joakim Noah? Andrew Bynum? Chris Bosh? Tim Duncan? Kevin Garnett? Ray Allen?

brodawgs
05-14-2011, 02:28 PM
I can't have too much respect for a list that puts Chris Paul BEHIND Russel Westbrook and NOT number one. Blake Griffin isn't the number two power forward.

gatkins11
05-14-2011, 02:44 PM
I can't have too much respect for a list that puts Chris Paul BEHIND Russel Westbrook and NOT number one. Blake Griffin isn't the number two power forward.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

hugepatsfan
05-14-2011, 02:46 PM
CP3
D-Will
Rose
Westbrook
Rondo

Wade
Kobe
?
?
?

Lebron
Durant
Melo
Pierce
Iggy

Dirk
Pau
Bosh
Amare
?

Dwight
?
?
?
?

Just off the top of my head that's what I can come up w/. I'd have to give it more though to finish.

shizzle09
05-14-2011, 02:51 PM
the #1's for each position are perfect!

gsgs49
05-14-2011, 02:57 PM
Brook Lopez 3rd best center?:speechless:

ewmania
05-14-2011, 03:10 PM
Rose
CP3
Rondo
Westbrook
Deron

Manu
Kobe
Wade
Iggy
Allen/Monti

Lebron
Durant
Melo
Pierce
???? granger i guess lol

Dirk
Amare
Pau
Zach
Lamarcus

Dwight
Perkins
Bogut
Noah
Horford

Hustlenomics
05-14-2011, 03:13 PM
Cp3,dwill,rondo,rose,westbrook
wade,kobe,joe johnson,ray allen,manu
Lebron,Pierce,Melo,Iggy,Granger
dirk,amare,kg,Z-bo,Lamarcus
Dwight, the rest

Shammyguy3
05-14-2011, 03:26 PM
Point Guards
1. Derrick Rose
2. Chris Paul
3. Deron Williams
4. Russell Westbrook
5. Steve Nash


Shooting Guards
1. Dwyane Wade
2. Manu Ginobili
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Joe Johnsonn
5. Aaron Afflalo


Small Forwards
1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Paul Pierce
4. Carmelo Anthony
5. Luol Deng


Power Forwards
1. Dirk Nowitzki
2. Pau Gasol
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Al Horford (i consider him a PF, he only plays C because he has to on that team)
5. Zach Randolph


Centers
1. Dwight Howard
2. Andrew Bynum
3. Joakim Noah
4. Kendrick Perkins
5. Tyson Chandler



It's really hard to pick for the PF slots from 3 and on. There are about 7 guys or so that can fill #s 3, 4, and 5--- that's how deep this league is in PFs right now

Chacarron
05-14-2011, 03:32 PM
It is just someone's blog.

TylerSL
05-14-2011, 03:35 PM
this is with everybody healthy



PG
1.CP3
2.D-Will
3.Rose
4.Westbrook
5.Rondo

SG
1.Wade
2.Kobe
3.Roy
4.Manu
5.Joe Johnson

SF
1.Lebron
2.Durant
3.Melo
4.Pierce
5.Iggy

PF
1.Dirk
2.Duncan
3.Zack Randolph
4.Gasol
5.Amare

C
1.Howard
2.Yao
3.Bogut
4.Bynum
5.Nene


again, this is when all these players are 100% healthy. That is why I have Brandon Roy 3 at SG, Yao and Bogut 2 and 3 at Center, and Duncan 2 at PF.

allSUAVE
05-14-2011, 03:39 PM
:laugh:

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 03:40 PM
What a terrible list lmfao:laugh:

allSUAVE
05-14-2011, 03:41 PM
Point guards is the only thing not accurate

1) CP3
2) Dwill
3) rose
4) Westbrook

Hustlenomics
05-14-2011, 03:42 PM
I forgot Durant

Clippersfan86
05-14-2011, 03:47 PM
LOL people picking Duncan and Gasol over Blake?? Or 20 ppg, 12 rpg, 2 apg Zach over 22.5 ppg, 12 rpg and 4 apg Blake?

PG:

CP3
Deron
Rose
Nash
Westbrook

SG:

Wade
Kobe
Manu
Eric Gordon
Monta Ellis

SF:

Lebron
Carmelo
Durant
Andre Iguodala
Danny Granger/Rudy Gay

PF:

Dirk
Amare
Griffin
Zbo
Aldridge

C:

Dwight
Bogut
Bynum
Kaman
Brook Lopez


Nobody can fu** with my list.

TylerSL
05-14-2011, 03:53 PM
Greg Oden would be in top 5 centers, but he hasnt had time to progress his career due to all of his injuries. Its a shame really, because IMO he would be as good as Howard if not better if he had been healthy this entire time.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 04:08 PM
LOL people picking Duncan and Gasol over Blake?? Or 20 ppg, 12 rpg, 2 apg Zach over 22.5 ppg, 12 rpg and 4 apg Blake?

PG:

CP3
Deron
Rose
Nash
Westbrook

SG:

Wade
Kobe
Manu
Eric Gordon
Monta Ellis

SF:

Lebron
Carmelo
Durant
Andre Iguodala
Danny Granger/Rudy Gay

PF:

Dirk
Amare
Griffin
Zbo
Aldridge

C:

Dwight
Bogut
Bynum
Kaman
Brook Lopez


Nobody can fu** with my list.

terrible list buddy:(

I agree with the PG list though.

Clippersfan86
05-14-2011, 04:11 PM
terrible list buddy:(

I agree with the PG list though.

Terrible list with no changes or differences? Terrible post by you tsk tsk.

Raph12
05-14-2011, 04:12 PM
PG
1. Chris Paul
2. Deron Williams
3. Derrick Rose
4. Russell Westbrook
5. Steve Nash
Honorable Mentions: Tony Parker & Rajon Rondo

SG
1. Dwyane Wade
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Manu Ginobli
4. Kevin Martin
5. Eric Gordon
Honorable Mentions: Monta Ellis & Andre Igoudala

SF
1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Paul Pierce
5. Danny Granger
Honorable Mentions: Rudy Gay & Gerald Wallace

PF
1. Dirk Nowitzki
2. Pau Gasol
3. Kevin Love
4. LaMarcus Aldridge
5. Amare Stoudamire
Honorable Mentions: Zach Randolph & Blake Griffin

C
1. Dwight Howard
2. Andrew Bynum
3. Nene Hilario
4. Al Horford
5. Al Jefferson
Honorable Mentions: Brook Lopez & Marc Gasol

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 04:15 PM
Terrible list with no changes or differences? Terrible post by you tsk tsk.

Monta Ellis is not a top5 SG
Melo is not better than durant
where the hell is gasol, love??
griffin is not a top3 PF
lopez and kaman on top 5 centers :laugh:

Hawkeye15
05-14-2011, 04:15 PM
PG
1. Chris Paul
2. Deron Williams
3. Derrick Rose
4. Russell Westbrook
5. Steve Nash
Honorable Mentions: Tony Parker & Rajon Rondo

SG
1. Dwyane Wade
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Manu Ginobli
4. Kevin Martin
5. Eric Gordon
Honorable Mentions: Monta Ellis & Andre Igoudala

SF
1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Paul Pierce
5. Danny Granger
Honorable Mentions: Rudy Gay & Gerald Wallace

PF
1. Dirk Nowitzki
2. Pau Gasol
3. Kevin Love
4. LaMarcus Aldridge
5. Amare Stoudamire
Honorable Mentions: Zach Randolph & Blake Griffin

C
1. Dwight Howard
2. Andrew Bynum
3. Nene Hilario
4. Al Horford
5. Al Jefferson
Honorable Mentions: Brook Lopez & Marc Gasol



saved me 2 minutes with this post. Agree 100%

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 04:19 PM
saved me 2 minutes with this post. Agree 100%

Raph forgot Noah though:shrug:

Clippersfan86
05-14-2011, 04:25 PM
Monta Ellis is not a top5 SG
Melo is not better than durant
where the hell is gasol, love??
griffin is not a top3 PF
lopez and kaman on top 5 centers :laugh:

Melo and Durant are clones. One dimensional players who dominate one side of the ball. I prefer Melo because he's a big game player who's proven himself in big games (something Durant hasn't done) and he's a bit more well rounded in his game.

Pau Gasol and Love ARE NOT better than my top 5 PF list. I supported Love for the first half of the season until I saw him intentionally stat pad so much. Not to mention the Wolves dropped from 4th worst record to THE worst in the league with Love leading the charge. The Clippers got what twice as many wins? That was WITH major injuries to our best players like Baron, Kaman and Eric Gordon.

Pau Gasol is arguably the most balanced PF of the group but he's also very inconsistent and DOESN'T have anywhere near the stats of the guys I posted above him besides Aldridge maybe. Aldridge carried his team to middle seeding despite missing B Roy so I'm not taking him off my list.

There isn't a single PF in the game besides Amare that has better all around stats than the 22.5 ppg, 12 rpg 4 apg on 51 percent shooting Blake put up. Blake is a rookie too and you wanna complain I have him 3rd!? If I wanted to be really bold I'd say Blake is THE best PF in the game because it's really not that farfetched. Blake is the ONLY player in the game this season to average 20+, 12+ and 3+. He also broke countless rookie records.

As for my Centers who's better? Noah? Horford who's not even a true Center but a tweener forced to play out of position most of the season? Brook Lopez is a poor rebounder but a very good low post scorer and solid defender. Kaman IS a top 5 Center when healthy nobody can even hate on that. He made the all star team last season for a reason. He's the most complete Center in the game outside of Dwight and Bogut. He blocks shots, rebounds, scores as well as any Center.

jerellh528
05-14-2011, 04:26 PM
PG
1. Chris Paul
2. Deron Williams
3. Derrick Rose
4. Russell Westbrook
5. Steve Nash
Honorable Mentions: Tony Parker & Rajon Rondo

SG
1. Dwyane Wade
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Manu Ginobli
4. Kevin Martin
5. Eric Gordon
Honorable Mentions: Monta Ellis & Andre Igoudala

SF
1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Paul Pierce
5. Danny Granger
Honorable Mentions: Rudy Gay & Gerald Wallace

PF
1. Dirk Nowitzki
2. Pau Gasol
3. Kevin Love
4. LaMarcus Aldridge
5. Amare Stoudamire
Honorable Mentions: Zach Randolph & Blake Griffin

C
1. Dwight Howard
2. Andrew Bynum
3. Nene Hilario
4. Al Horford
5. Al Jefferson
Honorable Mentions: Brook Lopez & Marc Gasol

pretty much this^

Hawkeye15
05-14-2011, 04:29 PM
Raph forgot Noah though:shrug:

eh, Noah didn't have a great year.

gaughan333
05-14-2011, 04:29 PM
Cp3,dwill,rondo,rose,westbrook
wade,kobe,joe johnson,ray allen,manu
Lebron,Pierce,Melo,Iggy,Granger
dirk,amare,kg,Z-bo,Lamarcus
Dwight, the rest

Homer much? where is durant?

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 04:31 PM
Melo and Durant are clones. One dimensional players who dominate one side of the ball. I prefer Melo because he's a big game player who's proven himself in big games (something Durant hasn't done) and he's a bit more well rounded in his game.

Pau Gasol and Love ARE NOT better than my top 5 PF list. I supported Love for the first half of the season until I saw him intentionally stat pad so much. Not to mention the Wolves dropped from 4th worst record to THE worst in the league with Love leading the charge. The Clippers got what twice as many wins? That was WITH major injuries to our best players like Baron, Kaman and Eric Gordon.

Pau Gasol is arguably the most balanced PF of the group but he's also very inconsistent and DOESN'T have anywhere near the stats of the guys I posted above him besides Aldridge maybe. Aldridge carried his team to middle seeding despite missing B Roy so I'm not taking him off my list.

There isn't a single PF in the game besides Amare that has better all around stats than the 22.5 ppg, 12 rpg 4 apg on 51 percent shooting Blake put up. Blake is a rookie too and you wanna complain I have him 3rd!? If I wanted to be really bold I'd say Blake is THE best PF in the game because it's really not that farfetched. Blake is the ONLY player in the game this season to average 20+, 12+ and 3+. He also broke countless rookie records.

As for my Centers who's better? Noah? Horford who's not even a true Center but a tweener forced to play out of position most of the season? Brook Lopez is a poor rebounder but a very good low post scorer and solid defender. Kaman IS a top 5 Center when healthy nobody can even hate on that. He made the all star team last season for a reason. He's the most complete Center in the game outside of Dwight and Bogut. He blocks shots, rebounds, scores as well as any Center.

griffin is putting up stats in losing team.

and dear lord dont you ever say kaman is a top 5 center, he isn't even a top15, he's a blackhole.

If you would look at durant's and melo's advandced stats you'd see that Durant is lightyears ahead of him.

allSUAVE
05-14-2011, 04:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-52nixlqlmE

pwned, every single game they played against each other

allSUAVE
05-14-2011, 04:35 PM
Durrant is ''NBA hype, fellas. BELIEVE it exists. Durant is the type of player the NBA wants to promote, like Howard, Wade, James. Melo has too many off the court issues (association with drug dealers, weed allegations/arrests, threatening talk towards others in the media). In short, Melo is too "ghetto" for the NBA's marketing machine.
Call it conspiracy, call it the league favoring their stars and making them more fan friendly, or call it dumb refs tricked by the commercials, but the NBA appears RIGGED when you take into account all the insane foul calls guys like Durant get. Durant making commercials while guys like Melo get shut out is pretty much proof the league wants certain players as their marketing toys.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 04:36 PM
why is Melo not better than Durant ,bandwagon fan?

not even close

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=anthoca01&y1=2011&p2=duranke01&y2=2011

Raph12
05-14-2011, 04:37 PM
Raph forgot Noah though:shrug:

No it was close between Noah and MGasol for me, but like I expected, MGasol has been held back by the players on his team... In the playoffs, he has shown that he's a very capable center on both ends. In comparison, Noah has shown that his offensive game is truly lacking and he really is just about hustle.

Btw Lopez gets the nod because he's clearly more refined than Noah and when motivated, he's shown that he could be a capable rebounder and shotblocker (see seasons prior for reference)... He has the skills and size to be elite, I really think he just needs that motivation to play that way.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 04:38 PM
Durrant is ''NBA hype, fellas. BELIEVE it exists. Durant is the type of player the NBA wants to promote, like Howard, Wade, James. Melo has too many off the court issues (association with drug dealers, weed allegations/arrests, threatening talk towards others in the media). In short, Melo is too "ghetto" for the NBA's marketing machine.
Call it conspiracy, call it the league favoring their stars and making them more fan friendly, or call it dumb refs tricked by the commercials, but the NBA appears RIGGED when you take into account all the insane foul calls guys like Durant get. Durant making commercials while guys like Melo get shut out is pretty much proof the league wants certain players as their marketing toys.

WHat hype?:laugh2:

The guy's incredible and stats back it up.

Clippersfan86
05-14-2011, 04:38 PM
griffin is putting up stats in losing team.

and dear lord dont you ever say kaman is a top 5 center, he isn't even a top15, he's a blackhole.

If you would look at durant's and melo's advandced stats you'd see that Durant is lightyears ahead of him.


Okay... so let me get this straight. You rank Griffin out of the top 5 and rank Love in the top 5 who has half the wins? Even Wolves fans have said all year.. Love doesn't impact games. Griffin definitely does. The whole stats on losing team is abused. How many players in the league play next to a 23 ppg scorer like Eric Gordon? Clippers have so many guys who can drop 20 any game that Blake is at a DISADVANTAGE if anything when it comes to racking up stats. Look at the team stats and ratings dude. Clips were a middle of the road team, not a bad one statistically. That was with major injuries, new coaching staff and playing rookies heavy minutes.

Explain how Kaman isn't a top 5 Center in a league where good Centers are hard to come by? He put up 13 ppg, 7 rpg, 1.5 bpg in 26 minutes this season while nursing injuries. Last season he made the all star team as he averaged 18.5 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 1.5 bpg in only 34 minutes a game. How is he not a top 5 Center?

Not everyone gets their opinions from PER/EFF or crap like that. It's MUCH harder to stop Carmelo Anthony for defenders than it is Durant. Over the last 5 seasons combined Melo is the clutchest player in the game. He's a tougher defender than Durant. Durant doesn't face the double teams Melo does. As I said the gap isn't big or anything but I put Melo slightly above Durant because he's proven in big games he will come through. Even in this years sweep Melo flat out carried the Knicks. Durant doesn't do the same for OKC.

Clippersfan86
05-14-2011, 04:41 PM
WHat hype?:laugh2:

The guy's incredible and stats back it up.

Yes because 11 points on 3-14 shooting in the most important game of his life to this point where more than half those shot attempts were 3's is incredible right? :clap:. Durant is a low IQ player. He is SO predictable unlike Carmelo. Once he gets it in his mind that he's shooting he won't adapt to the defense and react. He's still going to shoot that 3 pointer with 2 defenders on him.

Hawkeye15
05-14-2011, 04:42 PM
Okay... so let me get this straight. You rank Griffin out of the top 5 and rank Love in the top 5 who has half the wins? Even Wolves fans have said all year.. Love doesn't impact games. Griffin definitely does. The whole stats on losing team is abused. How many players in the league play next to a 23 ppg scorer like Eric Gordon? Clippers have so many guys who can drop 20 any game that Blake is at a DISADVANTAGE if anything when it comes to racking up stats. Look at the team stats and ratings dude. Clips were a middle of the road team, not a bad one statistically. That was with major injuries, new coaching staff and playing rookies heavy minutes.

Explain how Kaman isn't a top 5 Center in a league where good Centers are hard to come by? He put up 13 ppg, 7 rpg, 1.5 bpg in 26 minutes this season while nursing injuries. Last season he made the all star team as he averaged 18.5 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 1.5 bpg in only 34 minutes a game. How is he not a top 5 Center?

Not everyone gets their opinions from PER/EFF or crap like that. It's MUCH harder to stop Carmelo Anthony for defenders than it is Durant. Over the last 5 seasons combined Melo is the clutchest player in the game. He's a tougher defender than Durant. Durant doesn't face the double teams Melo does. As I said the gap isn't big or anything but I put Melo slightly above Durant because he's proven in big games he will come through. Even in this years sweep Melo flat out carried the Knicks. Durant doesn't do the same for OKC.


What Wolves fans? Love is the only reason we even won 17 games. The last 9 games, where he sat, we were murdered. I have no doubt that Griffin has a chance to be better in the future, but Love was better this year.

As for Durant versus Melo, I can't believe this is still going on. Durant is superior in nearly every way. And its pretty easy to prove. If you don't care for advanced statistics (which is obvious since you list Kaman as top 5 anything), then you will have to pardon many for not agreeing with your "eyes", and actually stating their opinion with real numbers to back it up.

allSUAVE
05-14-2011, 04:44 PM
Okay... so let me get this straight. You rank Griffin out of the top 5 and rank Love in the top 5 who has half the wins? Even Wolves fans have said all year.. Love doesn't impact games. Griffin definitely does. The whole stats on losing team is abused. How many players in the league play next to a 23 ppg scorer like Eric Gordon? Clippers have so many guys who can drop 20 any game that Blake is at a DISADVANTAGE if anything when it comes to racking up stats. Look at the team stats and ratings dude. Clips were a middle of the road team, not a bad one statistically. That was with major injuries, new coaching staff and playing rookies heavy minutes.

Explain how Kaman isn't a top 5 Center in a league where good Centers are hard to come by? He put up 13 ppg, 7 rpg, 1.5 bpg in 26 minutes this season while nursing injuries. Last season he made the all star team as he averaged 18.5 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 1.5 bpg in only 34 minutes a game. How is he not a top 5 Center?

Not everyone gets their opinions from PER/EFF or crap like that. It's MUCH harder to stop Carmelo Anthony for defenders than it is Durant. Over the last 5 seasons combined Melo is the clutchest player in the game. He's a tougher defender than Durant. Durant doesn't face the double teams Melo does. As I said the gap isn't big or anything but I put Melo slightly above Durant because he's proven in big games he will come through. Even in this years sweep Melo flat out carried the Knicks. Durant doesn't do the same for OKC.

Exactly, Do you see Durants supporting cast. Melo would dream to have that lol

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 04:44 PM
Okay... so let me get this straight. You rank Griffin out of the top 5 and rank Love in the top 5 who has half the wins? Even Wolves fans have said all year.. Love doesn't impact games. Griffin definitely does. The whole stats on losing team is abused. How many players in the league play next to a 23 ppg scorer like Eric Gordon? Clippers have so many guys who can drop 20 any game that Blake is at a DISADVANTAGE if anything when it comes to racking up stats. Look at the team stats and ratings dude. Clips were a middle of the road team, not a bad one statistically. That was with major injuries, new coaching staff and playing rookies heavy minutes.

Explain how Kaman isn't a top 5 Center in a league where good Centers are hard to come by? He put up 13 ppg, 7 rpg, 1.5 bpg in 26 minutes this season while nursing injuries. Last season he made the all star team as he averaged 18.5 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 1.5 bpg in only 34 minutes a game. How is he not a top 5 Center?

Not everyone gets their opinions from PER/EFF or crap like that. It's MUCH harder to stop Carmelo Anthony for defenders than it is Durant. Over the last 5 seasons combined Melo is the clutchest player in the game. He's a tougher defender than Durant. Durant doesn't face the double teams Melo does. As I said the gap isn't big or anything but I put Melo slightly above Durant because he's proven in big games he will come through. Even in this years sweep Melo flat out carried the Knicks. Durant doesn't do the same for OKC.

Love was top5 on win shares last season.
Look at his teammates, they are the worst in the league, darko and beasley are terrible players.
they're 2nd best player is Luke ridnour lol.

And wtf Melo doesn't play any defense, melo is an overrated scorer.
Don't know why some people think he's the best scorer in the league while guys like wade, kobe, james and durant score more efficiently than him.

RaidersLakers24
05-14-2011, 04:45 PM
Im sorry but that list is trash hahaha

jockrider
05-14-2011, 04:48 PM
Exactly, Do you see Durants supporting cast. Melo would dream to have that lol

melo's supporting cast in denver>durants right now

Clippersfan86
05-14-2011, 04:48 PM
What Wolves fans? Love is the only reason we even won 17 games. The last 9 games, where he sat, we were murdered. I have no doubt that Griffin has a chance to be better in the future, but Love was better this year.

As for Durant versus Melo, I can't believe this is still going on. Durant is superior in nearly every way. And its pretty easy to prove. If you don't care for advanced statistics (which is obvious since you list Kaman as top 5 anything), then you will have to pardon many for not agreeing with your "eyes", and actually stating their opinion with real numbers to back it up.

Griffin won 32 games... Love won 17. Wins aren't everything when comparison individuals obviously but that IS a pretty damn huge gap you know? Griffin flat out carried the Clippers to wins... hitting clutch shot after clutch shot.. or coming up with clutch defensive plays.. rebounds list goes on. Love had a couple incredible games that will be remembered but how much did he REALLY do for the Wolves? How many times did he jack rebounds from teammates to where it was clear as day? Hell during the All star game he freaking fought with Manu (teammate) over a rebound and stole one from Westbrook.

He doesn't have the same fire that Blake does. If someone is a stat junky/efficiency guy of course you pick Kevin Love. He's very good for your fantasy league. NOW and in the future if you picked a player to be on your team I'm confident 9 out of 10 people pick Blake Griffin and have been doing so all season. Why did coaches pick Blake over Kevin Love for the ASG? It's not like coaches pick based on popularity. Stern is the one who put K Love in. Start a poll or new thread about Blake vs Kevin Love and see what results we get. I know we had a few during regular season but I'll delete my account if more people choose Love NOW and in the future.

You guys REALLY need to take my advice I'm about to give. Stay away from this modern day bullsh** of PER and other advanced stat formulas and put more effort into WATCHING all the teams play, not just one. There is a thing called intangibles when it comes to sports. Things that cannot be quantified. This nonsense of "Oh this player is way better because of efficiency numbers or TS%" has gone on too long. WATCH THE FU**ING GAMES. NOBODY would pick K Love over Blake if they watched both players. BTW Blake absolutely demolished K Love in head to head this year. Clippers 3-1 over Wolves. Only loss was on a Beasley game winner in first matchup.

RaidersLakers24
05-14-2011, 04:48 PM
At the end of the day next year Kobe and gasol will once again be number 1 and 2 at their respective positions! You will see a version of Kobe you haven't seen in 3+ years! Quote me on that!

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 04:49 PM
kaman has a career PER of 14.4 and 0.060 WS/48

And ORtg 98:laugh::laugh::laugh:

oh yeah top5 fo sho'

allSUAVE
05-14-2011, 04:49 PM
Love was top5 on win shares last season.
Look at his teammates, they are the worst in the league, darko and beasley are terrible players.
they're 2nd best player is Luke ridnour lol.

And wtf Melo doesn't play any defense, melo is an overrated scorer.
Don't know why some people think he's the best scorer in the league while guys like wade, kobe, james and durant score more efficiently than him.

the most versatile scorer is the most overrated. :facepalm:

EVEN THE MOST SUSPECT ANALYST SAID IT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUcprkEh_dE

gsgs49
05-14-2011, 04:49 PM
PGs:
1- Paul
2- Rose
3- Williams
4- Westbrook
5- Nash

SGs:
1- Wade
2- Bryant
3- Manu
4- Johnson
5- Martin

SFs:
1- Lebron
2- Durant
3- Melo
4- Pierce
5- Iguodala

PFs:
1- Dirk
2- Gasol
3- Love
4- Amare
5- Aldrige or Zach I can't decide here

Cs:
1- Howard
2- Horford
3- Bynum
4- Chandler
5- Noah

allSUAVE
05-14-2011, 04:51 PM
if anything Durant is the most overrated scorer, he scores one way.

he's a tall Ray Allen to me

RaidersLakers24
05-14-2011, 04:51 PM
Lol at love being better then griffin according to hawkeye hahaha that is bs griffin>>>love
Griffin has better post up game!
Better passer!
Dunker
Better defender
He is just as good at rebounding as love!

Only things love has that griffin doesn't is a better 3pt shot

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 04:52 PM
Griffin won 32 games... Love won 17. Wins aren't everything when comparison individuals obviously but that IS a pretty damn huge gap you know? Griffin flat out carried the Clippers to wins... hitting clutch shot after clutch shot.. or coming up with clutch defensive plays.. rebounds list goes on. Love had a couple incredible games that will be remembered but how much did he REALLY do for the Wolves? How many times did he jack rebounds from teammates to where it was clear as day? Hell during the All star game he freaking fought with Manu (teammate) over a rebound and stole one from Westbrook.

He doesn't have the same fire that Blake does. If someone is a stat junky/efficiency guy of course you pick Kevin Love. He's very good for your fantasy league. NOW and in the future if you picked a player to be on your team I'm confident 9 out of 10 people pick Blake Griffin and have been doing so all season. Why did coaches pick Blake over Kevin Love for the ASG? It's not like coaches pick based on popularity. Stern is the one who put K Love in. Start a poll or new thread about Blake vs Kevin Love and see what results we get. I know we had a few during regular season but I'll delete my account if more people choose Love NOW and in the future.

put love to the clippers and they are a playoff team.

at least griffin has decent teammates...davis/williams, jordan, gordon
while love has ...ridnour and maybe a beasley who is a poor mans sprewell

allSUAVE
05-14-2011, 04:53 PM
most hardest player to defend in the NBA is Carmelo Anthony -Kobe

RaidersLakers24
05-14-2011, 04:53 PM
the most versatile scorer is the most overrated. :facepalm:

EVEN THE MOST SUSPECT ANALYST SAID IT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUcprkEh_dE

So Durant is overrated but melo is not?? I'm sorry but your a fool if Durant is overrated then so Is melo and IMO they aren't overrated I agree with just about everyone that Durant is slightly better then melo!

dtmagnet
05-14-2011, 04:54 PM
This is just some random blogger's opinion, and a crappy opinion at that.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 04:55 PM
if anything Durant is the most overrated scorer, he scores one way.

he's a tall Ray Allen to me

:laugh:

which one would you take?

a scorer who scores on a multiple ways on around 45 FG%
a scorer who scores on a lesser ways on around 50 FG%

Hawkeye15
05-14-2011, 04:55 PM
Griffin won 32 games... Love won 17. Wins aren't everything when comparison individuals obviously but that IS a pretty damn huge gap you know? Griffin flat out carried the Clippers to wins... hitting clutch shot after clutch shot.. or coming up with clutch defensive plays.. rebounds list goes on. Love had a couple incredible games that will be remembered but how much did he REALLY do for the Wolves? How many times did he jack rebounds from teammates to where it was clear as day? Hell during the All star game he freaking fought with Manu (teammate) over a rebound and stole one from Westbrook.

He doesn't have the same fire that Blake does. If someone is a stat junky/efficiency guy of course you pick Kevin Love. He's very good for your fantasy league. NOW and in the future if you picked a player to be on your team I'm confident 9 out of 10 people pick Blake Griffin and have been doing so all season. Why did coaches pick Blake over Kevin Love for the ASG? It's not like coaches pick based on popularity. Stern is the one who put K Love in. Start a poll or new thread about Blake vs Kevin Love and see what results we get. I know we had a few during regular season but I'll delete my account if more people choose Love NOW and in the future.

Anytime a player can get 15 rpg, they have fire. Again, you are going homer here, and that is fine. Love had a better individual season than Blake.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=griffbl01&y1=2011&p2=loveke01&y2=2011

Love was better. The Wolves had one player who outplayed their counterpart. Love. By a wide margin. When your second best player is Luke Ridnour, you are in trouble.

As I commented, I see no reason why Blake can't be the best PF in the game in a couple of years. But he isn't yet.

gsgs49
05-14-2011, 04:55 PM
the most versatile scorer is the most overrated. :facepalm:

EVEN THE MOST SUSPECT ANALYST SAID IT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUcprkEh_dE

Based on skills,Melo is the best scorer in the league it's not even debatable,he can score from everywhere in different ways.
But there is a difference between scoring and scoring in a efficient way.
Durant,Dirk even Wade and Lebron are much more efficient scorers.So I consider them better scorers.

Clippersfan86
05-14-2011, 04:57 PM
put love to the clippers and they are a playoff team.

at least griffin has decent teammates...davis/williams, jordan, gordon
while love has ...ridnour and maybe a beasley who is a poor mans sprewell


Okay it's clear as day to everyone now you don't watch basketball, you just follow boxscores and advanced stat websites. You just said put Kevin Love on the Clippers and they make the playoffs. So you're telling me swapping Blake for Love= 16 more wins? hahahahaha.... GTFO man before you get trolled hard by everyone on this forum. You're comparing the talent difference but that would only be valid if the Wolves and Clips had the same record. 32 wins vs 17 wins. Eric Gordon missed 30 games, Kaman 50, Baron about 20. You guys had to deal with injuries to Beasley? Big fu**ing deal.

You're confused anyways man. Kobe name, Bulls avatar.

DR_1
05-14-2011, 04:58 PM
PG

Rose
Paul
Williams
Westbrook
Nash

SG

Kobe
Wade
Manu
Joe Johnson
Ray Allen

SF

LeBron
KD
Melo
Pierce
Deng

PF

Dirk
Amar'e
Z-Bo
Love
Griffin

C
Dwight Howard
Bogut
Bynum
Noah
Horford

jockrider
05-14-2011, 04:58 PM
Yes because 11 points on 3-14 shooting in the most important game of his life to this point where more than half those shot attempts were 3's is incredible right? :clap:. Durant is a low IQ player. He is SO predictable unlike Carmelo. Once he gets it in his mind that he's shooting he won't adapt to the defense and react. He's still going to shoot that 3 pointer with 2 defenders on him.

mello shot 35% in the most important game of his life and got drubbed by the lakers in the ecf. and durants only 22 so he can improve but he's already better than mello at this age mello is overated. taller version of monta ellis.

mustaine
05-14-2011, 04:58 PM
Point Guards:
1. Derrick Rose
2. Chris Paul
3. Deron Williams
4. Russell Westbrook
5. Steve Nash
Missed out: Rajon Rondo and Tony Parker

Shooting Guards:
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Dwyane Wade
3. Manu Ginobili
4. Joe Johnson
5. Monta Ellis
Missed out: Aaron Afflalo, Brandon Roy, Tyreke Evans and Stephen Jackson

Small forwards:
1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Paul Pierce
5. Luol Deng
Missed out: Danny Granger

Power forwards:
1. Dirk Nowitzki
2. Pau Gasol
3. Amar'e Stoudamire
4. Zach Randolph
5. LeMarcus Aldridge
Missed out: Blake Griffin, Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan and Chris Bosh

Centers:
1. Dwight Howard
2. Kevin Love
3. Joakim Noah
4. Andrew Bynum
5. Nene
Missed out: Al Horford, Nene, Marc Gasol, Andrew Bogut and Brook Lopez

Probably many that don't agree... But these lists are always gonna be personalized.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 04:59 PM
Based on skills,Melo is the best scorer in the league it's not even debatable,he can score from everywhere in different ways.
But there is a difference between scoring and scoring in a efficient way.
Durant,Dirk even Wade and Lebron are much more efficient scorers.So I consider them better scorers.

excuse me:confused:
:laugh:

allSUAVE
05-14-2011, 04:59 PM
:laugh:

which one would you take?

a scorer who scores on a multiple way on around 45 FG%
a scorer who scorer on a lesser ways on around 50 FG%

this one because he scores multiple ways.

Durant is playing with one of the best PG in the league and the best benches of them all

RaidersLakers24
05-14-2011, 05:00 PM
put love to the clippers and they are a playoff team.

at least griffin has decent teammates...davis/williams, jordan, gordon
while love has ...ridnour and maybe a beasley who is a poor mans sprewell

So if you switch Love with griffin love would make the clippers a 50+ win team? You have to remember Eric Gordon missed like 30 games but still your kidding yourself if love wouldve made the clippers a playoff team!
And how in the world is Beasley a poor mans sprewell if he's a sf and sprewell was a pg? :facepalm:

Hawkeye15
05-14-2011, 05:00 PM
Lol at love being better then griffin according to hawkeye hahaha that is bs griffin>>>love
Griffin has better post up game!
Better passer!
Dunker
Better defender
He is just as good at rebounding as love!

Only things love has that griffin doesn't is a better 3pt shot

Love is a more efficient scorer, and a far better rebounder. Blakes rebound rate was 18.6%. Love has never been under 21, and was near 24 this year.

Please don't think I am not a Blake fan, and as I have stated, his future is as bright as any player in the NBA. But Love was better this past year. Love played 9 fewer games, yet had more win shares. Loves TS% blew Blake's away, the actual way to measure scoring efficiency.

You are right though, Blake is a far better dunker.

jockrider
05-14-2011, 05:01 PM
if anything Durant is the most overrated scorer, he scores one way.

he's a tall Ray Allen to me

that's a compliment because mello will never be the player allen was plus he gets taller? man durant must be a beast.

HuRRiCaNeS324
05-14-2011, 05:01 PM
Point Guards
1. Chris Paul
2. Derrick Rose
3. Deron Williams
4. Russell Westbrook
5. Rajon Rondo


Shooting Guards
1. Dwyane Wade
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Joe Johnson
4. Manu Ginobili
5. Ray Allen

Small Forwards
1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Danny Granger
5. Paul Pierce

Power Forwards
1. Dirk Nowitzki
2. Pau Gasol
3. Blake Griffin
4. Zach Randolph
5. Lamarcus Aldridge

Centers
1. Dwight Howard
2. Amare Stoudemire
3. Andrew Bynum
4. Marc Gasol
5. Andrew Bogut

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 05:02 PM
Okay it's clear as day to everyone now you don't watch basketball, you just follow boxscores and advanced stat websites. You just said put Kevin Love on the Clippers and they make the playoffs. So you're telling me swapping Blake for Love= 16 more wins? hahahahaha.... GTFO man before you get trolled hard by everyone on this forum. You're comparing the talent difference but that would only be valid if the Wolves and Clips had the same record. 32 wins vs 17 wins. Eric Gordon missed 30 games, Kaman 50, Baron about 20. You guys had to deal with injuries to Beasley? Big fu**ing deal.

You're confused anyways man. Kobe name, Bulls avatar.

Love has the worst supporting cast in the league by far.

Clippersfan86
05-14-2011, 05:02 PM
Anytime a player can get 15 rpg, they have fire. Again, you are going homer here, and that is fine. Love had a better individual season than Blake.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=griffbl01&y1=2011&p2=loveke01&y2=2011

Love was better. The Wolves had one player who outplayed their counterpart. Love. By a wide margin. When your second best player is Luke Ridnour, you are in trouble.

As I commented, I see no reason why Blake can't be the best PF in the game in a couple of years. But he isn't yet.

I already admitted Love has better stats/efficiency so what does this prove? My comment was.. Blake has a much larger impact on games and it's CLEAR as day for anyone who's watched.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 05:02 PM
mello shot 35% in the most important game of his life and got drubbed by the lakers in the ecf. and durants only 22 so he can improve but he's already better than mello at this age mello is overated. taller version of monta ellis.

:nod:

RaidersLakers24
05-14-2011, 05:03 PM
Omg psd is filled with stupidity so many dumb posters have joined lately!! This is the only positive I get from the lakers being eliminated is I don't get to read so much stupidity in one day atleast not till next year!

Some people don't even have Gordon as a top 5 sg they don't have rose as the best or 2nd best pg, and some don't even have pau gasol on their list lmfao
Love>griffen please!!

allSUAVE
05-14-2011, 05:04 PM
Durant would be exposed if he was a knick and had the same supporting cast Melo had this post season. smh.

42 17 and 6 is nothing. Durant Never had a effective game like that.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 05:05 PM
So if you switch Love with griffin love would make the clippers a 50+ win team? You have to remember Eric Gordon missed like 30 games but still your kidding yourself if love wouldve made the clippers a playoff team!
And how in the world is Beasley a poor mans sprewell if he's a sf and sprewell was a pg? :facepalm:

sprewell was a sf/sg

RaidersLakers24
05-14-2011, 05:06 PM
Love is a more efficient scorer, and a far better rebounder. Blakes rebound rate was 18.6%. Love has never been under 21, and was near 24 this year.

Please don't think I am not a Blake fan, and as I have stated, his future is as bright as any player in the NBA. But Love was better this past year. Love played 9 fewer games, yet had more win shares. Loves TS% blew Blake's away, the actual way to measure scoring efficiency.

You are right though, Blake is a far better dunker.


Didn't Blake average like 12 reb a game?
He would have averaged more if it wasn't for Jordan and kaman stealing his rebounds!

Ofcourse love was gonna grab more boards when the only other guy getting some is Darko!

Don't get me wrong love is a great player I just think griffen is the better player!

Clippersfan86
05-14-2011, 05:07 PM
Love has the worst supporting cast in the league by far.

Which is why he averaged 15+ rpg. You honestly think if Love played on the Clippers next to DJ and Kaman he would of averaged 15 boards? Who's he competing with for boards? Darko? I don't even like this comparison because I love both players and want them both to dominate for years to come.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 05:08 PM
Durant would be exposed if he was a knick and had the same supporting cast Melo had this post season. smh.

42 17 and 6 is nothing. Durant Never had a effective game like that.

Then why Durant has 2x more win shares in the playoffs???:p

tyfreaks brotha
05-14-2011, 05:08 PM
No doubt Cousins is better then Lopez on the list

gsgs49
05-14-2011, 05:09 PM
excuse me:confused:
:laugh:

Why are you laughing dude? I'm not saying that Melo is the best scorer in the league,he's not even top 5 IMO because he's inefficient but he can score in every way possible.
Name me a player who is a more versatile scorer than Melo go ahead!

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 05:09 PM
Didn't Blake average like 12 reb a game?
He would have averaged more if it wasn't for Jordan and kaman stealing his rebounds!

Ofcourse love was gonna grab more boards when the only other guy getting some is Darko!

Don't get me wrong love is a great player I just think griffen is the better player!

lmao people:laugh:

Now you're accusing other players for stealing griffins rebounds.

Good point there:rolleyes:

Clippersfan86
05-14-2011, 05:10 PM
Didn't Blake average like 12 reb a game?
He would have averaged more if it wasn't for Jordan and kaman stealing his rebounds!

Ofcourse love was gonna grab more boards when the only other guy getting some is Darko!

Don't get me wrong love is a great player I just think griffen is the better player!

Yes Griffin was actually at 13 rpg at his peak this season but then the Clippers had the 2nd or 3rd longest road trip in league history and he went into a big slump. Eric Gordon had just gotten injured so teams started centering their entire defense around Blake and sent him into a string of like 10-15 straight average games and his numbers plummeted. It wasn't rare to see triple teams on Blake during that stretch. Love is a smarter, more fundamentally sound rebounder but based on the circumstances it's stupid to make comments like "Love is a way better rebounder" based on numbers alone. Blake on the Wolves would average 15 rpg a game probably too. So would Dwight or Zach Randolph.

Hawkeye15
05-14-2011, 05:10 PM
I already admitted Love has better stats/efficiency so what does this prove? My comment was.. Blake has a much larger impact on games and it's CLEAR as day for anyone who's watched.

No, he didn't. Love had more win shares, more EWA (estimated wins added), scored more efficiently in fewer possessional rates, outplayed his counterpart by a larger margin (+11.1 vs +8.1 in PER).

I have watched them both plenty. I see the same things the numbers show.

As I commented, when your second best player is Luke Ridnour, and you don't have a single teammate who outplays their counterpart statistically, you are not getting wins.

RaidersLakers24
05-14-2011, 05:11 PM
Point Guards:
1. Derrick Rose
2. Chris Paul
3. Deron Williams
4. Russell Westbrook
5. Steve Nash
Missed out: Rajon Rondo and Tony Parker

Shooting Guards:
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Dwyane Wade
3. Manu Ginobili
4. Joe Johnson
5. Monta Ellis
Missed out: Aaron Afflalo, Brandon Roy, Tyreke Evans and Stephen Jackson

Small forwards:
1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Paul Pierce
5. Luol Deng
Missed out: Danny Granger

Power forwards:
1. Dirk Nowitzki
2. Pau Gasol
3. Amar'e Stoudamire
4. Zach Randolph
5. LeMarcus Aldridge
Missed out: Blake Griffin, Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan and Chris Bosh

Centers:
1. Dwight Howard
2. Kevin Love
3. Joakim Noah
4. Andrew Bynum
5. Nene
Missed out: Al Horford, Nene, Marc Gasol, Andrew Bogut and Brook Lopez

Probably many that don't agree... But these lists are always gonna be personalized.

I'm sorry but in your sg's list you don't even mention Eric gordan? That automatically makes your list stupid even though you have Kobe #1 which I agree! But then you have love and Noah ahead of Bynum??
Sorry but love is a pf and that's the position he played all year secondly Noah has no post moves!
Bynum eats Noah alive in almost every aspect of the game!

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 05:11 PM
Why are you laughing dude? I'm not saying that Melo is the best scorer in the league,he's not even top 5 IMO because he's inefficient but he can score in every way possible.
Name me a player who is a more versatile scorer than Melo go ahead!

Dirk

Clippersfan86
05-14-2011, 05:11 PM
lmao people:laugh:

Now you're accusing other players for stealing griffins rebounds.

Good point there:rolleyes:

So Griffin puts up stats on a bad team.. yet we can't say Love's stats are inflated for the same reason? Nice double standard... obvious troll is obvious.

jockrider
05-14-2011, 05:12 PM
Durant would be exposed if he was a knick and had the same supporting cast Melo had this post season. smh.

42 17 and 6 is nothing. Durant Never had a effective game like that.

playing with billups and amare? lol how would he get exposed? slight down grade at pg but westbrook is a ball hogg anyway, billups would make smart decisions. and arguably the best pf in the nba.

and lol did you guys win that game?

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 05:13 PM
So Griffin puts up stats on a bad team.. yet we can't say Love's stats are inflated for the same reason? Nice double standard... obvious troll is obvious.

advadnced stats ain't inflated like the regular ones.

Clippersfan86
05-14-2011, 05:15 PM
No, he didn't. Love had more win shares, more EWA (estimated wins added), scored more efficiently in fewer possessional rates, outplayed his counterpart by a larger margin (+11.1 vs +8.1 in PER).

I have watched them both plenty. I see the same things the numbers show.

As I commented, when your second best player is Luke Ridnour, and you don't have a single teammate who outplays their counterpart statistically, you are not getting wins.

We know damn well Beasley, Wesley Johnson and probably a couple others on the Wolves>Ridnour. Take my above advice and start making opinions for yourself by watching players consistently instead of trying to corroborate with stats to push an agenda. Kevin Love= worst stat padding I have ever seen. I mean I saw him ask to stay in games when team was down 30 points with 2 minutes to go because he wanted a double double.. and stupid sh** like that.

Since you're big on stats to me a favor because this is definitely a nail in your coffin. Find a stat that shows me how much double and triple teams these 2 players faced. I can tell you right now with 100 percent certainty that Love was single covered almost all season while Griffin was doubled at least 50% of the time. I can't remember many games where teams let Griffin go to work without sending a second defender immediately.

How many coaches said they gameplan for Griffin as if he's Kobe or Lebron? Some flat out called him a superstar. Alvin Gentry said Blake is his MVP of the season. How many said these things about Love?

naps
05-14-2011, 05:15 PM
WTF!?! Making a thread with a random guy's blog? Are you ****en kidding me?

Clippersfan86
05-14-2011, 05:16 PM
Same goes for Melo vs Durant. Melo gets double teamed on a regular basis. How many teams really double Durant? This should be weighed VERY heavily into these types of debates. Blake is playing against 2-3 defenders every game while Love gets to deal with 1.

allSUAVE
05-14-2011, 05:16 PM
playing with billups and amare? lol how would he get exposed? slight down grade at pg but westbrook is a ball hogg anyway, billups would make smart decisions. and arguably the best pf in the nba.

and lol did you guys win that game?

Billups played 3 quarters and Amare clearly wasn't 100% :laugh:

Durant would be exposed if he was a Knick im telling you. :laugh:

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 05:17 PM
We know damn well Beasley, Wesley Johnson and probably a couple others on the Wolves>Ridnour. Take my above advice and start making opinions for yourself by watching players consistently instead of trying to corroborate with stats to push an agenda. Kevin Love= worst stat padding I have ever seen. I mean I saw him ask to stay in games when team was down 30 points with 2 minutes to go because he wanted a double double.. and stupid sh** like that.

Since you're big on stats to me a favor because this is definitely a nail in your coffin. Find a stat that shows me how much double and triple teams these 2 players faced. I can tell you right now with 100 percent certainty that Love was single covered almost all season while Griffin was doubled at least 50% of the time. I can't remember many games where teams let Griffin go to work without sending a second defender immediately.

How in the hell are beasley and johnson better than ridnour?

gsgs49
05-14-2011, 05:18 PM
Dirk

haha really? do you know what ''versatile'' means?
Dirk is a better scorer for sure,but he's not a more versatile scorer because he doesn't drive to the basket regularly.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 05:20 PM
haha really? do you know what ''versatile'' means?
Dirk is a better scorer for sure,but he's not a more versatile scorer because he doesn't drive to the basket regularly.

I'd take dirk over melo any day of the week.

Clippersfan86
05-14-2011, 05:21 PM
How in the hell are beasley and johnson better than ridnour?

12 ppg, 3 rpg and 5.5 apg isn't exactly ground breaking.


Beasley: 19.2 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 2.2 apg and on better efficiency.

Where the hell have you guys been trying to sit here and say Ridnour>Beasley lol??? Ridnour doesn't even compare when you go to advanced stats. Beasley is a very solid-good 2nd option for Love, but way to conveniently leave out Beasley to agenda push.

I will say though Ridnour is better than Johnson... but I think the rookie did play well in the second half of the season.

jockrider
05-14-2011, 05:22 PM
Billups played 3 quarters and Amare clearly wasn't 100% :laugh:

Durant would be exposed if he was a Knick im telling you. :laugh:

so he put up big numbers on a bad team in a losing effort? ellis does that all the time.

tyfreaks brotha
05-14-2011, 05:22 PM
Hahahahaha people that think Melo is better then Durant are just plain silly

SugeKnight
05-14-2011, 05:23 PM
PG
1. Chris Paul
2. Deron Williams
3. Derrick Rose
4. Steve Nash
5a. Russell Westbrook
5b. Rajon Rondo

SG
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Dwyane Wade
3. Monta Ellis
4. Andre Igoudala
5. Manu Ginobli

SF
1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Paul Pierce
5. Danny Granger

PF
1. Dirk Nowitzki
2. Pau Gasol
3. Amare Stoudamire
4. LaMarcus Aldridge
5. Zach Randolph

C
1. Dwight Howard
2. Al Horford
3. Andrew Bynum
4. Nene Hilario
5. Andrew Bogut

Clippersfan86
05-14-2011, 05:23 PM
Hahahahaha people that think Melo is better then Durant are just plain silly

I ranked Melo just above Durant and said they are pretty much a wash. It's just my personal opinion on the list. Not as bad as some of the other lists here... not sure why it stirred up a debate.

pebloemer
05-14-2011, 05:24 PM
Cp3,dwill,rondo,rose,westbrook
wade,kobe,joe johnson,ray allen,manu
Lebron,Pierce,Melo,Iggy,Granger
dirk,amare,kg,Z-bo,Lamarcus
Dwight, the rest

Durant?


I forgot Durant

NM. You caught it yourself.

mustaine
05-14-2011, 05:25 PM
I'm sorry but in your sg's list you don't even mention Eric gordan? That automatically makes your list stupid even though you have Kobe #1 which I agree! But then you have love and Noah ahead of Bynum??
Sorry but love is a pf and that's the position he played all year secondly Noah has no post moves!
Bynum eats Noah alive in almost every aspect of the game!

I totally forgot about Gordon.


Love is listed as PF/C and plays a lot of center at times, he's as much of a center as Horford in my opinion.

Having said that, the biggest problem I have with this forum is the fact that every time someone has a different opinion he's called stupid or at least his opinion is stupid. Look I'm a Bulls fan, so yes, Noah is a "homer" pick but who cares? It's my list isn't it? I like Bynum and he's a good player but I prefer the defense of Noah. Disagree with me all you want but calling something stupid because you don't agree isn't really an argument, it's only a way to try and put your own opinion up over someone else. The Love argument you made is a valid one, as is the one about Gordon but I explained those and if you still don't agree then I can't do much can I? Like I said, these lists are so much based on personal feeling that the majority will never agree.

Clippersfan86
05-14-2011, 05:26 PM
Still waiting for an answer and stats you stat whores. How much was Blake Griffin double and triple teamed this season compared to Kevin Love? How many teams centered their entire defense around stopping Love like they did Blake? How many flagrant fouls did Love get compared to Blake from opponents trying to prevent being dominated? How many coaches said they game plan for Love like a superstar.... such as Kobe or Lebron?

tyfreaks brotha
05-14-2011, 05:27 PM
^ I know. The debate is silly. But good to watch. Haha

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 05:28 PM
12 ppg, 3 rpg and 5.5 apg isn't exactly ground breaking.


Beasley: 19.2 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 2.2 apg and on better efficiency.

Where the hell have you guys been trying to sit here and say Ridnour>Beasley lol??? Ridnour doesn't even compare when you go to advanced stats. Beasley is a very solid-good 2nd option for Love, but way to conveniently leave out Beasley to agenda push.

I will say though Ridnour is better than Johnson... but I think the rookie did play well in the second half of the season.

wow you are so wrong.

beasley 0.035 WS/48 terrible:puke:
ridnour 0.089 WS/48 league average

gsgs49
05-14-2011, 05:30 PM
Based on this season,Tyson Chandler should be in everybody Top 5 centers list.
He's arguably the second best defensive center.
Statistically he's the second best rebounder center,he's 5th in the league in TRB%, 2nd among centers.
And he's insanely efficient
6th in the league in WS/48
1st in TS% with .697 that's very high only Artis Gilmore had a better TS% in a season( in 1981 and 1982)
1st in ORtg 131.03 also very hig only Horace Grant in 92 and Donaldson in 87 had better ORtg in a season
And a PER of 18.4 also good.

He's a very big reason of Dallas success this season,he's without a doubt our second most valuable player and the best center in the Dirk era and maybe in franchise history.

Furymaker
05-14-2011, 05:31 PM
PG - Rose , CP3 , DWill , Westbrook , Rondo/Nash
SG - Wade , Kobe , Manu , J.Johnson , E.Gordon/M.Ellis/K.Martin
SF - James , Durant , Melo , Pierce , Granger/Iggy/Gay/Deng
PF - Dirk , Gasol , Amare , Z.Randolph , LMA/B.Griffin/K.Love
C -Howard ,Horford , Nene , Bynum , A.Jefferson/Noah/T.Chandler/Bogut

allSUAVE
05-14-2011, 05:32 PM
Please ask for my question, why melo has 2 times less win shares than durant...

do you want to know who got more win shares than MJ?

it does not matter. do you see Durant supporting Cast??

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 05:32 PM
Based on this season,Tyson Chandler should be in everybody Top 5 centers list.
He's arguably the second best defensive center.
Statistically he's the second best rebounder center,he's 5th in the league in TRB%, 2nd among centers.
And he's insanely efficient
6th in the league in WS/48
1st in TS% with .697 that's very high only Artis Gilmore had a better TS% in a season( in 1981 and 1982)
1st in ORtg 131.03 also very hig only Horace Grant in 92 and Donaldson in 87 had better ORtg in a season
And a PER of 18.4 also good.

He's a very big reason of Dallas success this season,he's without a doubt our second most valuable player and the best center in the Dirk era and maybe in franchise history.

yes he is, but all I see him do is throw down alley oop dunks.

nothing wrong with that though, he's really good.

Clippersfan86
05-14-2011, 05:32 PM
wow you are so wrong.

beasley 0.035 WS/48 terrible:puke:
ridnour 0.089 WS/48 league average

So you find one of the least used advanced stats because it's the only one Ridnour wins out on? In PER/EFF and any other COMMONLY used, logical advanced stat Beasley>Ridnour. Besides it's a well known fact stats aside Beasley>Ridnour. To suggest otherwise is a joke. Let's stretch it out to PER 48 stats so it makes Ridnour look better :facepalm:.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 05:34 PM
So you find one of the least used advanced stats because it's the only one Ridnour wins out on? In PER/EFF and any other COMMONLY used, logical advanced stat Beasley>Ridnour. Besides it's a well known fact stats aside Beasley>Ridnour. To suggest otherwise is a joke. Let's stretch it out to PER 48 stats so it makes Ridnour look better :facepalm:.

Win shares are the most used and most better stats I have seen.

PER is useless, it favors chuckers like Ellis and other shooting maniacs.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 05:35 PM
do you want to know who got more win shares than MJ?

it does not matter. do you see Durant supporting Cast??

noone in the playoffs, when it is adjusted per36 or 48.

THAT WHY HE'S THE GOAT.

jockrider
05-14-2011, 05:36 PM
do you want to know who got more win shares than MJ?

it does not matter. do you see Durant supporting Cast??

did you see melo's supporting cast in denver? durant would win it all with that team.

Clippersfan86
05-14-2011, 05:38 PM
Win shares are the most used and most better stats I have seen.

PER is useless, it favors chuckers like Ellis and other shooting maniacs.

Just like TS% favors guys like Durant who shoot 90 percent or w/e from the stripe. Every advanced stat formula has a flaw... otherwise there would be only one that was respected/used. Reality is... 19 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 2.2 apg>>>12 ppg, 3 rpg and 5.5 apg no matter how you spin it. Beasley is without a doubt better than Ridnour. If you watched more games and studied less boxscores/advanced stats I promise you'd enjoy the game a lot more.

gsgs49
05-14-2011, 05:39 PM
yes he is, but all I see him do is throw down alley oop dunks.

nothing wrong with that though, he's really good.

Yeah he gets his points from dunks and layups usually but he can hit 16-18 feet jumper regularly.
Too bad he hadn't made one in the series when we swept you guys:p

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 05:41 PM
Just like TS% favors guys like Durant who shoot 90 percent or w/e from the stripe. Every advanced stat formula has a flaw... otherwise there would be only one that was respected/used. Reality is... 19 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 2.2 apg>>>12 ppg, 3 rpg and 5.5 apg no matter how you spin it. Beasley is without a doubt better than Ridnour. If you watched more games and studied less boxscores/advanced stats I promise you'd enjoy the game a lot more.

WTF???

why would you take beasley over ridnour, kidding me?

he has a horrible ORtg
beasley 100
ridnour 112

Beasley is just chucking up shots.

Clippersfan86
05-14-2011, 05:45 PM
WTF???

why would you take beasley over ridnour, kidding me?

he has a horrible ORtg
beasley 100
ridnour 112

Beasley is just chucking up shots.

Be honest are you really this ******** or are you intentionally trolling? Rather than respond with basketball intelligent answers that would verify you actually watch basketball you keep looking up and posting random advanced stats. Stop trying to quantify players into raw numbers moron. It's disrespectful to the sport and the players. If you want to remain a loser who's never played a sport but enjoys mathematics go take an extra Calculus class or something because nobody with basketball sense is going to respect you. You're like Joyner on ISH and ****** except 3 times worse. Wonder how many people have had strokes trying to read and understand your moronic posts.

allSUAVE
05-14-2011, 05:46 PM
Carmelo Denver Nuggets roster

Arron Afflalo
Malik Allen
Chris Andersen
Renaldo Balkman
Chauncey Billups
Anthony Carter
Joey Graham
Nene Hilario
Ty Lawson
Kenyon Martin
Johan Petro
J.R. Smith

Durant OKC Roster

Cole Aldrich
Cole Aldrich
Daequan Cook
James Harden
Serge Ibaka
Royal Ivey
Eric Maynor
Nazr Mohammed
Byron Mullens
Kendrick Perkins
Nate Robinson
Thabo Sefolosha
Robert Vaden
Russell Westbrook

gsgs49
05-14-2011, 05:48 PM
Durant would be exposed if he was a knick and had the same supporting cast Melo had this post season. smh.

42 17 and 6 is nothing. Durant Never had a effective game like that.

:laugh:

How about 15 points on 5-18 shooting in Game 1?
How about 15 points on 4-16 in Game 3?

Melo is a chucker you can't deny this he takes some ugly shots and contested shots every game.
He can have a effective game when he's hot but he's inefficient like hell sometimes

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 05:48 PM
Be honest are you really this ******** or are you intentionally trolling? Rather than respond with basketball intelligent answers that would verify you actually watch basketball you keep looking up and posting random advanced stats. Stop trying to quantify players into raw numbers moron. It's disrespectful to the sport and the players. If you want to remain a loser who's never played a sport but enjoys mathematics go take an extra Calculus class or something because nobody with basketball sense is going to respect you. You're like Joyner on ISH and ****** except 3 times worse. Wonder how many people have had strokes trying to read and understand your moronic posts.

Are you sick in the head?

look at beasley's TS% and EFG%, beasley wants to be a star, but he hell no aint one.

And I have been watched beasley enough to see that dude's terrible player and makes terrible mistakes with no desire to play defense.

Clippersfan86
05-14-2011, 05:50 PM
Are you sick in the head?

look at beasley's TS% and EFG%, beasley wants to be a star, but he hell no aint one.

19.5 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 2.2 apg>>>12 ppg, 3 rpg and 5.5 apg PERIOD. Now GTFO.

heathonater
05-14-2011, 05:51 PM
pg-paul,rose, westbrook
sg-wade, bryant, johnson
sf-james, durant, anthony
pf- dirk, amare, randolph
c- howard, then everyone else

its amazing how little center depth the nba has at the moment. at every other position one could argue for a few guys as the best at their position. but i dont think even the causal nba fan could argue that someone other than dwight is the best center.

Bravo95
05-14-2011, 05:51 PM
PG: Paul, Williams, Rose, Nash, Rondo/Westbrook
SG: Wade, Bryant, Ginobili, Johnson, Gordon
SF: James, Durant, Anthony, Pierce, Iguodala
PF: Nowitzki, Gasol, Stoudemire, Aldridge, Randolph
C: Howard, Bynum, Horford, Bogut, Chandler/Noah

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 05:51 PM
19.5 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 2.2 apg>>>12 ppg, 3 rpg and 5.5 apg PERIOD. Now GTFO.

those numbers arent even adjusted:laugh2:

Clippersfan86
05-14-2011, 05:54 PM
those numbers arent even adjusted:laugh2:

Um exactly. They are what the player actually provided. Not what they would have theoretically provided in significantly more minutes. Which one is more logical when comparing? Facts and what we actually have in reality or hypothetical?

There are so many factors in sports such as fatigue as games go on for example to where there is no way adjusted stats per 36 or 48 would pan out exactly as they are projected. All it is.. is basically projected stats. A PREDICTION.

Reality>PREDICTION when it comes to comparing players.

allSUAVE
05-14-2011, 05:54 PM
Carmelo Denver Nuggets roster

Arron Afflalo
Malik Allen
Chris Andersen
Renaldo Balkman
Chauncey Billups
Anthony Carter
Joey Graham
Nene Hilario
Ty Lawson
Kenyon Martin
Johan Petro
J.R. Smith

Durant OKC Roster


Cole Aldrich
Daequan Cook
James Harden
Serge Ibaka
Royal Ivey
Eric Maynor
Nazr Mohammed
Byron Mullens
Kendrick Perkins
Nate Robinson
Thabo Sefolosha
Robert Vaden
Russell Westbrook

NOW Do I Really have to evaluate?? :laugh:

which supporting cast would you prefer??

gsgs49
05-14-2011, 05:55 PM
19.5 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 2.2 apg>>>12 ppg, 3 rpg and 5.5 apg PERIOD. Now GTFO.

haha seriously? points per game is the most overrated stat ever,I can play a basketball game and score 30 points on 15 of 45 shooting.Does that make me a great player?

Clippersfan86
05-14-2011, 05:58 PM
haha seriously? points per game is the most overrated stat ever,I can play a basketball game and score 30 points on 15 of 45 shooting.Does that make me a great player?

Yes because 15 of 45, 33.3 percent is what Beasley shot on the season right? Your trolling attempts are failing miserably. Way to use massive exaggeration to try to prove an already shaky point. Go start a thread/poll. Let's see how many people in their right minds would take Ridnour over Beasley on their team...

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 06:00 PM
Yes because 15 of 45, 33.3 percent is what Beasley shot on the season right? Your trolling attempts are failing miserably. Way to use massive exaggeration to try to prove an already shaky point. Go start a thread/poll. Let's see how many people in their right minds would take Ridnour over Beasley on their team...

nobody wanted beasley:facepalm:, kahn got him for 2nd rounder.

jockrider
05-14-2011, 06:00 PM
NOW Do I Really have to evaluate?? :laugh:

which supporting cast would you prefer??

nuggets by far remember billups was an allstar in denver affalo is better overall than harden two big man that can score inside effectively. than you have lawson and jr coming off the bench how the hell does okc's compare?

Iggz53
05-14-2011, 06:01 PM
My list, not necessarily in order:

PG:
Derrick Rose
Chris Paul
Russell Westbrook
Deron Williams
Steve Nash

SG:
Dwyane Wade
Kobe Bryant
Manu Ginobili
Eric Gordon
Joe Johnson

SF:
LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Paul Pierce
Carmelo Anthony
Gerald Wallace

PF:
Dirk Nowitzki
Pau Gasol
Zach Randolph
Amare Stoudemire
Chris Bosh

Center:
Dwight Howard
Andrew Bynum
Al Horford
Andrew Bogut
Joakim Noah

allSUAVE
05-14-2011, 06:03 PM
nuggets by far remember billups was an allstar in denver affalo is better overall than harden two big man that can score inside effectively. than you have lawson and jr coming off the bench how the hell does okc's compare?

I Have to sig this :laugh:

Westbrook is at a level billups was never on guy lml

gsgs49
05-14-2011, 06:05 PM
Yes because 15 of 45, 33.3 percent is what Beasley shot on the season right? Your trolling attempts are failing miserably. Way to use massive exaggeration to try to prove an already shaky point. Go start a thread/poll. Let's see how many people in their right minds would take Ridnour over Beasley on their team...

First of all you should calm down and respond in a classy way,Beasley doesn't shot 33% I just used that as an example and you should exaggerate sometimes to make an example,and nobody would take Ridnour over Beasley because Beasley is younger and has more potentiel.
But it's safe to say Ridnour is more valuable to his team than Beasley.
Edit: more valuable is different than better.

jockrider
05-14-2011, 06:05 PM
I Have to sig this :laugh:

Westbrook is at a level billups was never on guy lml

lol there is so much wrong with this post:facepalm:

allSUAVE
05-14-2011, 06:05 PM
Afflalo better than Harden wow, dumber than i thought

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 06:06 PM
I Have to sig this :laugh:

Westbrook is at a level billups was never on guy lml

please dont ever post:laugh2:

Has westbrook ever won an MVP award lmfao.

jockrider
05-14-2011, 06:07 PM
remember your talking about the finals mvp:facepalm:

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 06:08 PM
lol there is so much wrong with this post:facepalm:

I know, when has russell been an MVP lol.

jockrider
05-14-2011, 06:08 PM
Afflalo better than Harden wow, dumber than i thought

better shooter,defender wtf are you talking about? they're close but i'd give the edge to afalalo don't act like harden is on some other level.

allSUAVE
05-14-2011, 06:08 PM
remember your talking about the finals mvp:facepalm:

yea 7 years ago.

so what now? Shaq> Dwight lol

Clippersfan86
05-14-2011, 06:08 PM
nobody wanted beasley:facepalm:, kahn got him for 2nd rounder.

Yes and Ridnour was a hot commodity teams fought over :facepalm:. Beasley was considered tradable not due to his performance and potential but his off the court issues. Getting suspended twice for weed.. and questions about his work ethic or how coachable he is. It doesn't change the fact that he's EASILY a better player than Ridnour and a higher demand trade piece for any of the 29 other teams in the league. Ridnour wouldn't even start on at least 25+ other teams in the league.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 06:09 PM
remember your talking about the finals mvp:facepalm:

finals MVP>regular season MVP

JasonJohnHorn
05-14-2011, 06:09 PM
Those lists are BUNK!!! I dont even know where to begin.

allSUAVE
05-14-2011, 06:10 PM
better shooter,defender wtf are you talking about? they're close but i'd give the edge to afalalo don't act like harden is on some other level.

W/S STATS? Search it up lol

Clippersfan86
05-14-2011, 06:11 PM
First of all you should calm down and respond in a classy way,Beasley doesn't shot 33% I just used that as an example and you should exaggerate sometimes to make an example,and nobody would take Ridnour over Beasley because Beasley is younger and has more potentiel.
But it's safe to say Ridnour is more valuable to his team than Beasley.
Edit: more valuable is different than better.

I may be a bit on the defensive because of some of the lame responses I'm getting and failed trolls but honestly this just isn't accurate. Beasley is more valuable and better right now than Ridnour and it shouldn't even be a debate. Before his lengthy injury he was killing it. I think in the first quarter of the season he was putting up like 23+ ppg at one point (don't remember exact number) and was blowing up. Post injury he struggles to get back in a rhythm and now Luke is better than him???

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 06:11 PM
yea 7 years ago.

so what now? Shaq> Dwight lol

you said westbrook is better than billups has ever been.

now you are denying it lmao.:facepalm:

TheRunKiller
05-14-2011, 06:13 PM
remember your talking about the finals mvp:facepalm:

They wouldn't have got to the Finals if it wasn't for shaq

maybe he should have shared that finals MVP with him

Clippersfan86
05-14-2011, 06:14 PM
Why hasn't any advanced stat nut answered me BTW. Why isn't there a formula that quantifies double/triple teams? If Blake Griffin wasn't double teamed and triple teamed all game he probably would of averaged 28 ppg, 13 rpg and 5 assists a game. Kevin Love on the other hand much like Durant almost never sees a second defender. Shouldn't this weigh heavily in comparisons?

jockrider
05-14-2011, 06:14 PM
yea 7 years ago.

so what now? Shaq> Dwight lol

you said billups was never on the level westbrook is now remember:facepalm:

allSUAVE
05-14-2011, 06:14 PM
you said westbrook is better than billups has ever been.

no you are denying it lmao.:facepalm:

he said Melo have the finals MVP on his team so Melo supporting cast is better than Durant's. Lebron had one too with Shaq :facepalm: lmao

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 06:15 PM
They wouldn't have got to the Finals if it wasn't for shaq

maybe he should have shared that finals MVP with him

What are you talking about?

jockrider
05-14-2011, 06:16 PM
W/S STATS? Search it up lol

i'm not sure but i think this ends the durant/mello debate if your asking me to search up advanced stats.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 06:16 PM
he said Melo have the finals MVP on his team so Melo supporting cast is better than Durant's. Lebron had one too with Shaq :facepalm: lmao

In english please

Tuck&Rolle
05-14-2011, 06:19 PM
Some of your list are jokes lol

TheRunKiller
05-14-2011, 06:19 PM
What are you talking about?

you heard me shaq was the reason they got there

jockrider
05-14-2011, 06:20 PM
he said Melo have the finals MVP on his team so Melo supporting cast is better than Durant's. Lebron had one too with Shaq :facepalm: lmao

billups was still an allstar when he was in denver though and got them to the WCF his first year there.

that statement was a reply to you when you said billups was never on the level westbrook is now.

THE MTL
05-14-2011, 06:21 PM
Well, the list lost all validity when it listed Westbrook ahead of Chris Paul. Honestly, Chris Paul is the better OVERALL POINT GUARD in the league (yes ahead of Derrick Rose to all the Bulls fans).

And BLAKE GRIFFIN is in NO WAY! The second best PF in the league! And how do u let the tiebreaker go to stats between Love and Aldridge. I guarantee you that if u put Love on the Blazers instead of Aldridge...Portland might not even make the playoffs

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 06:22 PM
you heard me shaq was the reason they got there

What??

Shaq played with billups? in what galaxy?

allSUAVE
05-14-2011, 06:23 PM
billups was still an allstar when he was in denver though and got them to the WCF his first year there.

that statement was a reply to you when you said billups was never on the level westbrook is now.

Smh, What Durant have in Westbrook right now a TOP 10 Player by most. come on now!

and you not helping your debate especially when Durant might now make a WCF appearance

jockrider
05-14-2011, 06:23 PM
What??

Shaq played with billups? in what galaxy?

i think he's saying shaq screwed the lakers which enabled the pistons to beat them or something.

TheRunKiller
05-14-2011, 06:24 PM
What??

Shaq played with billups? in what galaxy?

oh i thought u were talking about wades finals mvp

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 06:24 PM
i think he's saying shaq screwed the lakers which enabled the pistons to beat them or something.

oh ok:)

jockrider
05-14-2011, 06:25 PM
Smh, What Durant have in Westbrook right now a TOP 10 Player by most. come on now!

just admit you were wrong why can't you man up? and westbrook is great but not a top ten player imo.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 06:25 PM
oh i thought u were talking about wades finals mvp

lol

RocketPower2010
05-14-2011, 06:25 PM
What exactly does Kevin Love have to do to get on everyone's top PF list? 25-15? 20-20? 30-20? Be black? Stat inflation is one of the most over-hyped excuses ever. The NBA season is not short, it's 82 games. If stat inflation does exist, it affects 3 ppg and 2 rpg tops.

jockrider
05-14-2011, 06:26 PM
oh i thought u were talking about wades finals mvp

keep up man!!:p

allSUAVE
05-14-2011, 06:26 PM
you not helping your debate especially when Durant might now make a WCF appearance

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 06:27 PM
Smh, What Durant have in Westbrook right now a TOP 10 Player by most. come on now!

and you not helping your debate especially when Durant might now make a WCF appearance

:facepalm:

Tuck&Rolle
05-14-2011, 06:28 PM
Just about all your list are terrible :laugh2:

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 06:29 PM
you not helping your debate especially when Durant might now make a WCF appearance

It will only show that durant is much better than melo.

allSUAVE
05-14-2011, 06:29 PM
:facepalm:

Alot of people on hear have him in their top 10 no me ,lol


i thought you was one of them

jockrider
05-14-2011, 06:30 PM
you not helping your debate especially when Durant might now make a WCF appearance

yea because he's better than mello.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-14-2011, 06:32 PM
Alot of people on hear have him in their top 10 no me ,lol


i thought you was one of them

Westbrook on top10?

What on earth are you smoking, and he aint even in my top 10 even in top20 lol.

TheRunKiller
05-14-2011, 06:33 PM
yea because he's better than mello.

you think melo is better than durant?

i would take melo he can score in more ways and create his own shot better than durant can...even tho i think durant is the better 3 point shooter

jockrider
05-14-2011, 06:33 PM
Alot of people on hear have him in their top 10 no me ,lol


i thought you was one of them

lebron
kobe
wade
dwight
durant
cp3
rose
williams
dirk
mello
amare
pau
duncan

that's thirteen players he's definitely not better than the guys in the top 10.

Yankeefan213
05-14-2011, 06:34 PM
Center is the only part I disagree with

Marc Gasol should be up there and Nene should not.

Howard
Stoudemire
Horford
Gasol
Lopez

jockrider
05-14-2011, 06:34 PM
you think melo is better than durant?

i would take melo he can score in more ways and create his own shot better than durant can...even tho i think durant is the better 3 point shooter

no.

sportsplayer7
05-14-2011, 06:39 PM
lol @ people putting Nash behind Rondo.

TheRunKiller
05-14-2011, 06:41 PM
Center is the only part I disagree with

Marc Gasol should be up there and Nene should not.

Howard
Stoudemire
Horford
Gasol
Lopez

wheres Noah?

Hawkeye15
05-14-2011, 07:43 PM
12 ppg, 3 rpg and 5.5 apg isn't exactly ground breaking.


Beasley: 19.2 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 2.2 apg and on better efficiency.

Where the hell have you guys been trying to sit here and say Ridnour>Beasley lol??? Ridnour doesn't even compare when you go to advanced stats. Beasley is a very solid-good 2nd option for Love, but way to conveniently leave out Beasley to agenda push.

I will say though Ridnour is better than Johnson... but I think the rookie did play well in the second half of the season.


Prove it.

And I can tell you right now you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about in reference to advanced stats. You have Melo with Durant and Kaman a top 5 center. Advanced stats laugh at your opinion.

Hawkeye15
05-14-2011, 07:44 PM
We know damn well Beasley, Wesley Johnson and probably a couple others on the Wolves>Ridnour. Take my above advice and start making opinions for yourself by watching players consistently instead of trying to corroborate with stats to push an agenda. Kevin Love= worst stat padding I have ever seen. I mean I saw him ask to stay in games when team was down 30 points with 2 minutes to go because he wanted a double double.. and stupid sh** like that.

Since you're big on stats to me a favor because this is definitely a nail in your coffin. Find a stat that shows me how much double and triple teams these 2 players faced. I can tell you right now with 100 percent certainty that Love was single covered almost all season while Griffin was doubled at least 50% of the time. I can't remember many games where teams let Griffin go to work without sending a second defender immediately.

How many coaches said they gameplan for Griffin as if he's Kobe or Lebron? Some flat out called him a superstar. Alvin Gentry said Blake is his MVP of the season. How many said these things about Love?

dude, most of this post is completely false. I mean almost all of it.

Hawkeye15
05-14-2011, 07:51 PM
Just like TS% favors guys like Durant who shoot 90 percent or w/e from the stripe. Every advanced stat formula has a flaw... otherwise there would be only one that was respected/used. Reality is... 19 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 2.2 apg>>>12 ppg, 3 rpg and 5.5 apg no matter how you spin it. Beasley is without a doubt better than Ridnour. If you watched more games and studied less boxscores/advanced stats I promise you'd enjoy the game a lot more.

ok, here is a post without stats. I watched 75 Wolves games this year. Beasley, while talented, forgets he is playing a team sport 15 possessions a game. He settles for long 2's way too often, doesn't get to the line enough, can't guard anyone, and throws the ball into the stands twice a game. All the while, he is having a conversation with himself. People oh and ah at athletic ability (cough, Griffin), yet ignore basketball fundamentals, like taking care of the ball, and taking good shots that allow you to convert at a high percentage.

If you want to debate Wolves with me, you will get killed. Period. You don't stand a chance in hell.

Now, as I said, PROVE Beasley was better. Because I sure as hell can prove what I say about the Wolves, and a large portion of what I say about other players/teams.

Hustlenomics
05-14-2011, 08:05 PM
Homer much? where is durant?

my second post in the thread said i forgot Durant

Jewelz0376
05-14-2011, 08:43 PM
I agree with the Sg and SF lists...the other 3 I'd def change

Clocian
05-14-2011, 09:11 PM
smh at the passive cp3 getting the 1 slot based on reputation and a couple games in the playoffs against some lazy lakers d. nobody can tell me with a straight face that cp3 or dwill have had a better season than rose. impact wise, numbers wise, or leadership wise. and the scary thing is he's only 22 and getting better :O.

Hawkeye15
05-14-2011, 09:14 PM
smh at the passive cp3 getting the 1 slot based on reputation and a couple games in the playoffs against some lazy lakers d. nobody can tell me with a straight face that cp3 or dwill have had a better season than rose. impact wise, numbers wise, or leadership wise. and the scary thing is he's only 22 and getting better :O.

my face is totally straight. Paul is better than Rose.

Khalifa21
05-14-2011, 09:17 PM
PG:

1. Chris Paul
2. Deron Williams
3. Derrick Rose
4. Steve Nash
5. Rajon Rondo

SG:

1. Dwyane Wade
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Manu Ginobili
4. Eric Gordon
5. Ray Allen

SF:

1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Paul Pierce
5. Danny Granger

PF:

1. Dirk Nowitzki
2. Amar'e Stoudemire
3. Pau Gasol
4. Blake Griffin
5. LaMarcus Aldridge

C:

1. Dwight Howard
2. Al Horford
3. Andrew Bogut
4. Andrew Bynum
5. Joakim Noah

Clocian
05-14-2011, 09:23 PM
my face is totally straight. Paul is better than Rose.

well you're lying to yourself and most of the media agrees with me. can you guess who's the player responsible for the most of his team's offensive production? I'll give ya a hint, it aint cp3, nash or these "true pgs". most of these posters dont even have deng. booz, noah in their lists and yet we have the best record in the league on our way to the conference finals.

Hawkeye15
05-14-2011, 09:29 PM
well you're lying to yourself and most of the media agrees with me. can you guess who's the player responsible for the most of his team's offensive production? I'll give ya a hint, it aint cp3, nash or these "true pgs". most of these posters dont even have deng. booz, noah in their lists and yet we have the best record in the league on our way to the conference finals.

CP3 is responsible for the entire Hornet's success dude. The Bulls have a very good roster, and a great bench, with the best defense in the NBA thanks to their coach.

Chris Paul is the best PG in the NBA, and may be the best PG to come along since Stockton.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=paulch01&y1=2011&p2=rosede01&y2=2011

Paul was simply better. The "media" you are speaking of, I would guess are the ones that vote for MVP. Paul didn't really meet the parameters to enter the discussion, since the MVP has to be a member of one of the top few teams.

Fact is, Chris Paul is the best PG in the last 15 years.

jockrider
05-14-2011, 09:33 PM
well you're lying to yourself and most of the media agrees with me. can you guess who's the player responsible for the most of his team's offensive production? I'll give ya a hint, it aint cp3, nash or these "true pgs". most of these posters dont even have deng. booz, noah in their lists and yet we have the best record in the league on our way to the conference finals.

yes it's nash doesn't he lead the league in that or something.

Clocian
05-14-2011, 09:39 PM
CP3 is responsible for the entire Hornet's success dude. The Bulls have a very good roster, and a great bench, with the best defense in the NBA thanks to their coach.

Chris Paul is the best PG in the NBA, and may be the best PG to come along since Stockton.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=paulch01&y1=2011&p2=rosede01&y2=2011

Paul was simply better. The "media" you are speaking of, I would guess are the ones that vote for MVP. Paul didn't really meet the parameters to enter the discussion, since the MVP has to be a member of one of the top few teams.

Fact is, Chris Paul is the best PG in the last 15 years.

I dont know what you were getting at by posting that link :confused:

drose points+assists = 2649
cp3 points+assists = 2050

now factor in leadership, where the teams are at, team injuries and it's no question :facepalm:. for a team that's supposedly has a weak supporting that's not cutting it.

jockrider
05-14-2011, 09:41 PM
I dont know what you were getting at by posting that link :confused:

drose points+assists = 2649
cp3 points+assists = 2050

now factor in leadership, where the teams are at, team injuries and it's no question :facepalm:. for a team that's supposedly has a weak supporting that's not cutting it.

:facepalm:

Hawkeye15
05-14-2011, 09:42 PM
I dont know what you were getting at by posting that link :confused:

drose points+assists = 2649
cp3 points+assists = 2050

now factor in leadership, where the teams are at, team injuries and it's no question :facepalm:. for a team that's supposedly has a weak supporting that's not cutting it.

that is your response? Do you even know how to read the link I posted? Do you actually understand how to measure a player?

You are attempting to measure intangibles. Good luck proving your statements. Fact is, Paul is a far more efficient offensive player, just as good of a defender, and the best PG we have seen in this league for years. And I think my chances of proving my statement are far greater than yours.

Clocian
05-14-2011, 09:58 PM
that is your response? Do you even know how to read the link I posted? Do you actually understand how to measure a player?

You are attempting to measure intangibles. Good luck proving your statements. Fact is, Paul is a far more efficient offensive player, just as good of a defender, and the best PG we have seen in this league for years. And I think my chances of proving my statement are far greater than yours.

I applaud cp3 for being 2% higher in fg% taking a load less shots than rose. I'll take the guy who can handle being the only playmaker, primary scorer, closer on the team who can break down defenses at will. if you can't see that rose's impact > cp3s impact this year I'm sorry

Hawkeye15
05-14-2011, 10:02 PM
I applaud cp3 for being 2% higher in fg% taking a load less shots than rose. I'll take the guy who can handle being the only playmaker, primary scorer, closer on the team who can break down defenses at will. if you can't see that rose's impact > cp3s impact this year I'm sorry

so no, you don't understand how to measure a player. You cleared it up, thanks.

jimm120
05-14-2011, 10:02 PM
CP3
D-Will
Rose
Westbrook
Rondo

Wade
Kobe
?
?
?

Lebron
Durant
Melo
Pierce
Iggy

Dirk
Pau
Bosh
Amare
?

Dwight
?
?
?
?

Just off the top of my head that's what I can come up w/. I'd have to give it more though to finish.

\
I think Amare should be over Bosh. I thought this before free agency and now that he's a knick (so, its not a "homer" thing). The only reason someone would want Bosh over Amare was because Bosh was slightly younger and hadn't had operations in the knee(s).

But from a talent standpoint, most people (i always thought) always ranked amare ahead. And from the results this year (yes, I know its been different situations), Amare showed that he can be more of a #1 than Bosh could ever.

TheRunKiller
05-14-2011, 10:03 PM
I applaud cp3 for being 2% higher in fg% taking a load less shots than rose. I'll take the guy who can handle being the only playmaker, primary scorer, closer on the team who can break down defenses at will. if you can't see that rose's impact > cp3s impact this year I'm sorry

Rose has obviously been the better player this season

I like how he gives you a link to stats to try to prove he's the better.

Hawkeye15
05-14-2011, 10:05 PM
Rose has obviously been the better player this season

I like how he gives you a link to stats to try to prove he's the better.

totally, because production and effectiveness mean nothing.....

TheRunKiller
05-14-2011, 10:06 PM
totally, because production and effectiveness mean nothing.....

I'm not saying it doesn't but stats don't mean everything

Hawkeye15
05-14-2011, 10:12 PM
I'm not saying it doesn't but stats don't mean everything

nope, they back up what our eyes see, and most of the people who understand basketball to a high degree see Chris Paul as a better PG, and the stats back it up.

jockrider
05-14-2011, 10:15 PM
I'm not saying it doesn't but stats don't mean everything

= important unless it somehow downs my favorite player.

ewmania
05-14-2011, 10:15 PM
timeout did someone seriously put Dang as the number #3 SF

hahahahahaaa

B'sCeltsPatsSox
05-14-2011, 10:24 PM
timeout did someone seriously put Dang as the number #3 SF

hahahahahaaa
I think I saw that somewhere lol.

ewmania
05-14-2011, 10:25 PM
I think I saw that somewhere lol.

there's a difference between being a fan and just wacked out of your mind lol

beardown78
05-14-2011, 10:27 PM
nope, they back up what our eyes see, and most of the people who understand basketball to a high degree see Chris Paul as a better PG, and the stats back it up.

Paul is the better point guard, Rose is the better player if that makes any since. Two totally differnt players looked upon to bring different things to impact winning for their teams. If you're loking foe Paul to carry the scoring load and be A closer at the end of games forget it it. If you're looking for Rose to be more of a floor general I think you take away from his impact on A game

Clocian
05-14-2011, 10:27 PM
nope, they back up what our eyes see, and most of the people who understand basketball to a high degree see Chris Paul as a better PG, and the stats back it up.

yeah if your definition of a pg is high assists/low t/o, it's no secret cp3 has 2 more assists than rose and it's no secret paul has less t/o. since rose is not only our pg but our best player he needs to make plays happen by scoring or assisting. im guessing cp3 is in the same boat am i right.

of course rose is gonna have more turnovers, the ball is always in his hands because he's aggressive in making plays for his rather offensively challenged team(no body else can create shots on their own). cp3 just passes the ball around and sees what happens as shown by his lower fga and ppg. yeah cp3 has 2 more assists but that's not enough to be only be putting up 15 ppg. when rose is averaging 25/8

Hawkeye15
05-14-2011, 10:30 PM
Paul is the better point guard, Rose is the better player if that makes any since. Two totally differnt players looked upon to bring different things to impact winning for their teams. If you're loking foe Paul to carry the scoring load and be A closer at the end of games forget it it. If you're looking for Rose to be more of a floor general I think you take away from his impact on A game

nope, Paul is the better player. He maximizes his teams possessions at a far greater rate than Rose, or any other PG does. Paul has shown the ability to score when needed over the past 6 years, many just forget this due to him dealing with a knee issue, and he is still more efficient that any PG in the last 15 years.

ArmLaker
05-14-2011, 10:32 PM
PG-Chris Paul
SG-Kobe Bryant....EASILY
SF-LeBron James(slim chance maybe Melo or Durant)
PF-Dirk Nowitzki hands down
C-Dwight Howard


YOU CANNOT MESS WITH THIS LIST

Hawkeye15
05-14-2011, 10:34 PM
yeah if your definition of a pg is high assists/low t/o, it's no secret cp3 has 2 more assists than rose and it's no secret paul has less t/o. since rose is not only our pg but our best player he needs to make plays happen by scoring or assisting. im guessing cp3 is in the same boat am i right.

of course rose is gonna have more turnovers, the ball is always in his hands because he's aggressive in making plays for his rather offensively challenged team(no body else can create shots on their own). cp3 just passes the ball around and sees what happens as shown by his lower fga and ppg. yeah cp3 has 2 more assists but that's not enough to be only be putting up 15 ppg. when rose is averaging 25/8

my definition of a PG is a player who makes everyone around him better, and is the coach on the floor. Per game stats are useless when said players are on the same mpg terms, and factoring in roles.

Make plays happen? You have never watched Paul if you don't think he makes EVERYTHING happen for his team. You speak of usage (ball in hand), and Paul is a coach's dream for high usage.

PPG? Paul is by far a more efficient scorer. Looking at per game stats is archaic, and inaccurate.

beardown78
05-14-2011, 10:34 PM
Point Guard
Rose
Paul
Deron
Rondo
Westbrook

Shooting Guard
Wade
Kobe
Kevin Martin
Manu
Ellis

Small Forward
Lebron
Melo
Durant
Pierce
Deng

Power Forward
Dirk
Bosh
Gasol
Z Bo
Stat

Center
Dwight
Bynum
Bogut
Noah
Hortford

Clocian
05-14-2011, 10:35 PM
nope, Paul is the better player. He maximizes his teams possessions at a far greater rate than Rose, or any other PG does. Paul has shown the ability to score when needed over the past 6 years, many just forget this due to him dealing with a knee issue, and he is still more efficient that any PG in the last 15 years.

really? is that why chicago is 12th in offense and NO is 19th?

http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats

Chi~TwnHawksFan
05-14-2011, 10:39 PM
Center:
1.Dwight Howard :superman:
2.Joakim Noah
3.Javale McGee
4.NENE
5. Marc Gasol/Horford
Power-Foward:
1.Dirk love
2.Amare
3.Love
4.J-Smith
5.Z-Bo (Zach Randolph)
Small-Foward:
1.Lebron
2.KD
3.Melo
4.Iggy/Wallace
5.Paul Pierce/Rudy Gay
Point Guard:
1.Rose:clap::win:
2.Rondo
3.Chris Paul
4.Russell Westbrook:hide:
5.D-Will
Shooting Guard:
1.Kobe
2.Monta Ellis
3.Ray Allen
4.JJ
5.Dwayne Wade
**NOT IN ORDER*

jockrider
05-14-2011, 10:39 PM
PG-Chris Paul
SG-Kobe Bryant....EASILY
SF-LeBron James(slim chance maybe Melo or Durant)
PF-Dirk Nowitzki hands down
C-Dwight Howard


YOU CANNOT MESS WITH THIS LIST

kobe-wade are MUCH closer than lebron-mello-durant i wouldn't say kobe easily but can't argue for you having him there

beardown78
05-14-2011, 10:41 PM
nope, Paul is the better player. He maximizes his teams possessions at a far greater rate than Rose, or any other PG does. Paul has shown the ability to score when needed over the past 6 years, many just forget this due to him dealing with a knee issue, and he is still more efficient that any PG in the last 15 years.

This is Roses third year in the league so going back 6 years doesnt prove you're point it only proves Rose is better in his third year not yet in his prime than Paul whom im assuming is in the prime of his career. As of right now based off of this season Rose is far more superior. If you're going off A career in general Paul has put up good numbers longer because of obvious reasons.

Clocian
05-14-2011, 10:46 PM
my definition of a PG is a player who makes everyone around him better, and is the coach on the floor. Per game stats are useless when said players are on the same mpg terms, and factoring in roles.

Make plays happen? You have never watched Paul if you don't think he makes EVERYTHING happen for his team. You speak of usage (ball in hand), and Paul is a coach's dream for high usage.

PPG? Paul is by far a more efficient scorer. Looking at per game stats is archaic, and inaccurate.

yup, being the primary scorer and breaking down the teams defense doesn't make the team better :confused:. far more efficient? cp3 can keep his 2 fg% points on far less shots and 10 less ppg.

bulls 7 spots higher in off eff with players like bogans, deng and noah with the former along with boozer missing half the season.

Jewelz0376
05-14-2011, 10:56 PM
I dont know what you were getting at by posting that link :confused:

drose points+assists = 2649
cp3 points+assists = 2050

now factor in leadership, where the teams are at, team injuries and it's no question :facepalm:. for a team that's supposedly has a weak supporting that's not cutting it.

I'm sorry but I had to quote this...lol..I've never seen anyone on here add up pts and assists like this to prove who is the better pg :laugh:

This literally made me laugh out loud

Hawkeye15
05-14-2011, 10:56 PM
yup, being the primary scorer and breaking down the teams defense doesn't make the team better :confused:. far more efficient? cp3 can keep his 2 fg% points on far less shots and 10 less ppg.

bulls 7 spots higher in off eff with players like bogans, deng and noah with the former along with boozer missing half the season.

as I said, if you didn't understand the link I posted, you don't understand efficiency. That is on you man.

Paul is the best PG in the planet. We are done

John Walls Era
05-14-2011, 10:57 PM
This list is really bad. Blake Griffin at 2?

jockrider
05-14-2011, 11:06 PM
yup, being the primary scorer and breaking down the teams defense doesn't make the team better :confused:. far more efficient? cp3 can keep his 2 fg% points on far less shots and 10 less ppg.

bulls 7 spots higher in off eff with players like bogans, deng and noah with the former along with boozer missing half the season.

paul is scoring less than he has in recent years true, but he is carrying more of a load than ever for the Hornets, leading the NBA in steals while third in assists . His assist-to-turnover ratio leads the league.

only player in history to lead the league in both steals and assists for two consecutive years.

Clocian
05-14-2011, 11:06 PM
as I said, if you didn't understand the link I posted, you don't understand efficiency. That is on you man.

Paul is the best PG in the planet. We are done

and the hornets 19th ranked offense :confused:

Clocian
05-14-2011, 11:12 PM
paul is scoring less than he has in recent years true, but he is carrying more of a load than ever for the Hornets, leading the NBA in steals while third in assists . His assist-to-turnover ratio leads the league.

only player in history to lead the league in both steals and assists for two consecutive years.

cp3 is "carrying" no more of the hornets offense than drose is with the bulls. again, rose leads the league in team's offense production percentage. I explained the whole assists/turnover thing above.

jockrider
05-14-2011, 11:25 PM
cp3 is "carrying" no more of the hornets offense than drose is with the bulls. again, rose leads the league in team's offense production percentage. I explained the whole assists/turnover thing above.

i thought that was nash do you have a link or something?

Chill_Will_24
05-14-2011, 11:32 PM
:laugh: at people ranking Rose above Paul.... :facepalm: homers...

PG:

CP3
Deron
Rose
Westbrook
Nash

SG:

Wade
Kobe
Manu
Eric Gordon
Monta Ellis

SF:

Lebron
Durant
Melo
Andre Iguodala
Rudy Gay

PF:

Dirk
ZBo
Amare
Love
Aldridge

C:

Dwight
Bynum
Bogut
A.Jefferson
Nene

Clocian
05-14-2011, 11:34 PM
i thought that was nash do you have a link or something?

they showed it during one of the hawks games(one of the last games I believe).

just looking around the net

http://www.teamrankings.com/blog/nba/how-involved-is-derrick-rose-in-the-chicago-bulls-offense

Clocian
05-14-2011, 11:38 PM
and that's just for finding the percentage. ONLY player in top 10 in both points AND assists should be all you need to know how involved he is in the offense

Chill_Will_24
05-14-2011, 11:45 PM
and that's just for finding the percentage. ONLY player in top 10 in both points AND assists should be all you need to know how involved he is in the offense

Let it go. Hawkeye already proved you wrong. Your making an *** out of yourself right now. Why is it so important to you that people rank Rose above Paul? Do you need to feel validated?

Clocian
05-14-2011, 11:54 PM
Let it go. Hawkeye already proved you wrong. Your making an *** out of yourself right now. Why is it so important to you that people Rose above Paul? Do you need to feel validated?

is that all you have to say? nobody proved me wrong yet because they can't. rose has way impact for their teams offense than current cp3 as the the chart in the above link shows. i don't even see cp3 period on that list. let me recheck

can't believe rose haters actually believe this gimpy, passive cp3 has had more impact on his team than rose has this year. smh

Chill_Will_24
05-15-2011, 12:02 AM
is that all you have to say? nobody proved me wrong yet because they can't. rose has way impact for their teams offense than current cp3 as the the chart in the above link shows. i don't even see cp3 period on that list. let me recheck

can't believe rose haters actually believe this gimpy, passive cp3 has had more impact on his team than rose has this year. smh

:sigh: ok... this will go nowhere

allSUAVE
05-15-2011, 12:03 AM
Melo is alot Closer to Durant than Rose is to CP3 According to PSD Favorite site.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=anthoca01&y1=2011&p2=duranke01&y2=2011

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=paulch01&y1=2011&p2=rosede01&y2=2011

Chill_Will_24
05-15-2011, 12:09 AM
Melo is alot Closer to Durant than Rose is to CP3 According to PSD Favorite site.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=anthoca01&y1=2011&p2=duranke01&y2=2011

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=paulch01&y1=2011&p2=rosede01&y2=2011

I didnt check the links but i agree with your statement... for once you and i agree on something...

Wrigheyes4MVP
05-15-2011, 12:29 AM
Point Guards
1. Derrick Rose
2. Chris Paul
3. Deron Williams
4. Russell Westbrook
5. Steve Nash

Just missed: Rajon Rondo
Watch out for: John Wall


Shooting Guards
1. Dwyane Wade
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Monta Ellis
4. Ray Allen
5. Manu Ginobli

Just missed: Joe Johnson
Watch out for: Eric Gordon


Small Forwards
1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Paul Pierce
5. Danny Granger

Just missed: Rudy Gay
Watch out for: Michael Beasley


Power Forwards
1. Dirk Nowitzki
2. Amare Stoudemire
3. Zach Randolph
4. Lamarcus Aldridge
5. Kevin Garnett

Just missed: Chris Bosh
Watch out for: Blake Griffin


Centers
1. Dwight Howard
2. Andrew Bynum
3. Joakim Noah
4. Tyson Chandler
5. Andrew Bogut

Just missed: Marc Gasol
Watch out for: Demarcus Cousins

LakersIn5
05-15-2011, 12:39 AM
more like

-PG-
CP3
Rose
Nash
Deron
Rondo

-SG-
Wade
Kobe
Manu
Ellis
Kmart

-SF-
Lebron
Durant
Carmelo
Pierce
Granger or Gay

-PF-
Dirk
Amare
Pau Gasol
Blake
Garnett

-C-
Dwight
Noah
Bynum
Horford
Bogut

Hawkeye15
05-15-2011, 12:40 AM
is that all you have to say? nobody proved me wrong yet because they can't. rose has way impact for their teams offense than current cp3 as the the chart in the above link shows. i don't even see cp3 period on that list. let me recheck

can't believe rose haters actually believe this gimpy, passive cp3 has had more impact on his team than rose has this year. smh

you have proven that you have zero idea how to measure impact. Rose is a great player, but he is also the product of the #1 defense, and has not shown the ability to make those around him better on the offensive end

Hawkeye15
05-15-2011, 12:44 AM
Melo is alot Closer to Durant than Rose is to CP3 According to PSD Favorite site.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=anthoca01&y1=2011&p2=duranke01&y2=2011

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=paulch01&y1=2011&p2=rosede01&y2=2011

while I am happy for the effort you finally made to employ advanced stats, dude, you are not using the right years....

Durant versus Melo now, or last year, and Paul versus Rose now. If we want to reach back to 2007-08 Paul versus Rose now, it gets extremely embarrassing for Rose.

Clocian
05-15-2011, 01:19 AM
you have proven that you have zero idea how to measure impact. Rose is a great player, but he is also the product of the #1 defense, and has not shown the ability to make those around him better on the offensive end

I know impact when I see it. dont even need statistics. if you still believe past couple years cp3 is equal or better than this years rose I'm sorry.

again

carrying the offensive load for a team loaded with defensive players in a defensive system. cp3, nowhere in sight - http://www.teamrankings.com/blog/nba/how-involved-is-derrick-rose-in-the-chicago-bulls-offense

#1 team overall in the league - http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Cnf.html

more efficient team offense than cp3s team - http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats

mvp - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOtxJrzp6ls

dont even know why im arguing with you. you know good and well who has more impact on their teams, you're just trolling me and have done a good job I might add :clap:

mania03
05-15-2011, 01:49 AM
Point Guards
1. Derrick Rose
2. Chris Paul
3. Deron Williams
4. Russell Westbrook
5. Steve Nash


Shooting Guards
1. Dwyane Wade
2. Manu Ginobili
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Joe Johnsonn
5. Aaron Afflalo


Small Forwards
1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Paul Pierce
4. Carmelo Anthony
5. Luol Deng


Power Forwards
1. Dirk Nowitzki
2. Pau Gasol
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Al Horford (i consider him a PF, he only plays C because he has to on that team)
5. Zach Randolph


Centers
1. Dwight Howard
2. Andrew Bynum
3. Joakim Noah
4. Kendrick Perkins
5. Tyson Chandler



It's really hard to pick for the PF slots from 3 and on. There are about 7 guys or so that can fill #s 3, 4, and 5--- that's how deep this league is in PFs right now

I would go with this but at the Center position ... 2) Joakim 3) Kendrick 4)Bynum 5) IDK

at the PF position 1)DIrk 2) Amare 3) Zach 4)Bosh 5) AL Horford

the others are fine ...

Supreme LA
05-15-2011, 02:05 AM
Based on this past season's performances I would say all but the centers are pretty accurate.

Spencesc11
05-15-2011, 02:42 AM
PG
1) Derrick Rose
2) Chris Paul
3) Deron Williams
4) Russell Westbrook
5) Rajon Rondo

SG
1) Dwayne Wade
2) Kobe Bryant
3) Monta Ellis
4) Ray Allen
5) Joe Johnson

SF
1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Rudy Gay
5) Gerald Wallace

PF
1) Kevin Love
2) Blake Griffin
3) Zach Randolph
4) Pau Gasol
5) Lamarcus Aldridge

C
1) Dwight Howard
2) Andrew Bynum
3) Tim Duncan
4) Marc Gasol
5) Nene Hilario

TylerSL
05-15-2011, 03:41 AM
I know impact when I see it. dont even need statistics. if you still believe past couple years cp3 is equal or better than this years rose I'm sorry.

again

carrying the offensive load for a team loaded with defensive players in a defensive system. cp3, nowhere in sight - http://www.teamrankings.com/blog/nba/how-involved-is-derrick-rose-in-the-chicago-bulls-offense

#1 team overall in the league - http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Cnf.html

more efficient team offense than cp3s team - http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats

mvp - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOtxJrzp6ls

dont even know why im arguing with you. you know good and well who has more impact on their teams, you're just trolling me and have done a good job I might add :clap:


I LOL to how ignorant you are :laugh:

VictimUK
05-15-2011, 05:07 AM
PG
1) Chris Paul
2) Derrick Rose
3) Deron Williams
4) Russell Westbrook
5) Rajon Rondo

SG
1) Dwayne Wade
2) Kobe Bryant
3) Joe Johnson
4) Monta Ellis
5) Ray Allen

SF
1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Paul Pierce
5) Rudy Gay

PF
1) Dirk Nowitzki
2) LaMarcus Aldridge
3) Pau Gasol
4) Kevin Garnett
5) Zach Randolph

C
1) Dwight Howard
2) Andrew Bynum
3) Marc Gasol
4) Joakim Noah
5) Tyson Chandler


My list i think Aldridge is extremely underrated and he carried the blazers this season

gsgs49
05-15-2011, 06:11 AM
Lol@ bulls fans saying Rose is better than Paul.
Try to find a stat in which Rose is better than Paul other than PPG, go ahead!

gsgs49
05-15-2011, 06:14 AM
I know impact when I see it. dont even need statistics. if you still believe past couple years cp3 is equal or better than this years rose I'm sorry.

again

carrying the offensive load for a team loaded with defensive players in a defensive system. cp3, nowhere in sight - http://www.teamrankings.com/blog/nba/how-involved-is-derrick-rose-in-the-chicago-bulls-offense

#1 team overall in the league - http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Cnf.html

more efficient team offense than cp3s team - http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats

mvp - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOtxJrzp6ls

dont even know why im arguing with you. you know good and well who has more impact on their teams, you're just trolling me and have done a good job I might add :clap:

haha you proved here that the bulls as a team are better than the hornets not Rose is better than Paul.
Chris Paul isn't a team,he's a player and he has 14 other players on his team.

Wilson
05-15-2011, 07:54 AM
As far as Rose and Paul, I don't think they're even comparable. Rose is listed as a PG but I would count him as a SG, that's essentially what he is. As dangerous as it is around here, Rose should be compared to Wade, not Paul.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-15-2011, 08:29 AM
As far as Rose and Paul, I don't think they're even comparable. Rose is listed as a PG but I would count him as a SG, that's essentially what he is. As dangerous as it is around here, Rose should be compared to Wade, not Paul.

yes Rose is totally different player.he has a scoring mentality.

Like when was the last time CP3 attempted over 30 FGs in a game?

Sportfan
05-15-2011, 08:57 AM
Paul
Rose
Dwill
Rondo
Westbrook

Kobe
Wade
Johnson
Martin
Tyreke

Lebron
Durant
Pierce
Melo
Granger

Dirk
Amare
Aldridge
Pau
Garnett

Dwight
Brook
Bynum
Chandler
Gasol

tredigs
05-15-2011, 09:21 AM
Lol@ bulls fans saying Rose is better than Paul.
Try to find a stat in which Rose is better than Paul other than PPG, go ahead!

To their credit, a ton of fans/media feel the same way, but I really do not understand how someone could've watched the Lakers/Hornets 1st round (or CP3's career) and feel that way. I do not even think it's CLOSE. Paul is a level of great that transcends what I thought was possible from a PG - the guy makes it look so easy it makes me friggin' sick.

To be honest, I actually don't think there's any contest right now for who's the best at each position. In my opinion, it's pretty clearly Paul, Wade, James, Nowitzki, Howard.

Given Griffin's insane physical ability and work ethic, I think he makes a play at top PF as early as next season, but barring injury, I don't see the other slots changing for 2-3 seasons.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-15-2011, 09:22 AM
Paul
Rose
Dwill
Rondo
Westbrook

Kobe
Wade
Johnson
Martin
Tyreke

Lebron
Durant
Pierce
Melo
Granger

Dirk
Amare
Aldridge
Pau
Garnett

Dwight
Brook
Bynum
Chandler
Gasol

dear lord...

And where's manu?

jp611
05-15-2011, 09:25 AM
Comparing Rose to Paul is like comparing apples to oranges, they are both great in their own respects, I personally would rather have Derrick Rose on the Bulls because that's what we need, a scorer who can still get his teammates involved, but Chris Paul's numbers are better than Rose's in almost every category but PPG, the guy is amazingly efficient and plays good defense. Rose is still only in his 3rd year though, and has improved significantly each and every season and works harder than most guys to be better than he is

Hawkeye15
05-15-2011, 09:30 AM
I know impact when I see it. dont even need statistics. if you still believe past couple years cp3 is equal or better than this years rose I'm sorry.

again

carrying the offensive load for a team loaded with defensive players in a defensive system. cp3, nowhere in sight - http://www.teamrankings.com/blog/nba/how-involved-is-derrick-rose-in-the-chicago-bulls-offense

#1 team overall in the league - http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Cnf.html

more efficient team offense than cp3s team - http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats

mvp - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOtxJrzp6ls

dont even know why im arguing with you. you know good and well who has more impact on their teams, you're just trolling me and have done a good job I might add :clap:

I don't think I have ever been called a troll before. Interesting.

You are attempting to use TEAM play to reflect INDIVIDUAL play. Its beyond obvious to me that you haven't watched Paul play much, and painfully obvious that you have no idea how to measure advanced stats. If you have followed CP3's career, and even watched the Lakers series, you see he is a complete puppeteer, that demonstrates exactly how a PG should play. He maximizes more of his team's possessions than any PG I have ever seen. He impacts a game without taking a shot. If Paul scored 8 points, he could STILL dominate a game. Rose can not do that. He needs to be scoring at a high clip to dominate a game. Paul gets his teammates to maximize their abilities (He turned David West from a scrub into an all star), and leads his team on both ends of the floor. Unfortunately, the talent level around Paul can only be brought to a certain level, before those players are not capable of playing any better, because quite honestly, he has been surrounded by garbage the majority of his career, or players who were good and got hurt (looking at you Peja).

I have watched/played/been around basketball for 28 years, and understand how to measure thru eyes and numbers. If you want to call me a troll for disagreeing with you and posting facts, then so be it. But as many can attest, I will drive you to pull your hair out if you continue with that attitude.

Chill_Will_24
05-15-2011, 10:01 AM
I don't think I have ever been called a troll before. Interesting.

You are attempting to use TEAM play to reflect INDIVIDUAL play. Its beyond obvious to me that you haven't watched Paul play much, and painfully obvious that you have no idea how to measure advanced stats. If you have followed CP3's career, and even watched the Lakers series, you see he is a complete puppeteer, that demonstrates exactly how a PG should play. He maximizes more of his team's possessions than any PG I have ever seen. He impacts a game without taking a shot. If Paul scored 8 points, he could STILL dominate a game. Rose can not do that. He needs to be scoring at a high clip to dominate a game. Paul gets his teammates to maximize their abilities (He turned David West from a scrub into an all star), and leads his team on both ends of the floor. Unfortunately, the talent level around Paul can only be brought to a certain level, before those players are not capable of playing any better, because quite honestly, he has been surrounded by garbage the majority of his career, or players who were good and got hurt (looking at you Peja).

I have watched/played/been around basketball for 28 years, and understand how to measure thru eyes and numbers. If you want to call me a troll for disagreeing with you and posting facts, then so be it. But as many can attest, I will drive you to pull your hair out if you continue with that attitude.

Why are you still trying? Do you honestly see him giving it up? Remember what you told me in the other thread? Sometimes the debate goes in circles and it's best to let it go. Stubbornness is a common side effect of homerism. Everyone knows who won this debate....... was it even ever a debate?

allSUAVE
05-15-2011, 10:22 AM
I was trying to Compare CP3 2nd year to Rose 2nd year but I made a mistake I guess

allSUAVE
05-15-2011, 10:28 AM
And I might be A lil homerism and stubborn who knows, but I really think Melo is better than Durant. :shrug:

gsgs49
05-15-2011, 10:43 AM
To their credit, a ton of fans/media feel the same way, but I really do not understand how someone could've watched the Lakers/Hornets 1st round (or CP3's career) and feel that way. I do not even think it's CLOSE. Paul is a level of great that transcends what I thought was possible from a PG - the guy makes it look so easy it makes me friggin' sick.

To be honest, I actually don't think there's any contest right now for who's the best at each position. In my opinion, it's pretty clearly Paul, Wade, James, Nowitzki, Howard.

Given Griffin's insane physical ability and work ethic, I think he makes a play at top PF as early as next season, but barring injury, I don't see the other slots changing for 2-3 seasons.

Yeah the media has a big role,they made Rose the face of the NBA this season.
Maybe because he plays in Chicago and Paul plays in New Orleans a small market.
Rose had a great season and led his team to 62 wins in his third season at age of 22 but Paul led his team to 56 wins also in his third season at age of 22 in the stacked western conference where 8 teams won 50+ games.
Let's compare the 22 years old Paul to the 22 years old Paul
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=paulch01&y1=2008&p2=rosede01&y2=2011

Paul had much better season in 2008 but I don't remember that the media hyped him like they did this year with Rose.Even they didn't gave him the MVP award which he really deserved.
I really think that Chris Paul if he stays healthy will go down as a top 25 player all time and top 3 PG all time.

Jarvo
05-15-2011, 10:49 AM
CP3, D-will, Rondo, Nash, Rose
Wade, Kobe, Manu, Monta Ellis, Ray Allen
LBJ, Durant, Melo, Pierce, Iggy/Granger
Dirk, Aldridge, Z-Bo, Kevin Love, Stoudemire *he isnt a Center*
Dwight Howard, Marc Gasol, Hibbert, Bynum, Noah