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View Full Version : What defines a "Superstar"



Meloman
05-13-2011, 07:49 PM
We toss this term around way too easily. Just one example, we talked all summer about the Miami trio, making it a given that Bosh was on the level of James and Wade. When the season started we saw that this just wasn't the case. We said the move to Miami and the big stage hurt him, when really he probably just wasn't THAT good of a player to begin with. So what exactly defines a superstar? Personally, I think there are several levels:

Superstar: someone who can lead a good enough team to a title as its' best player, and even with bad players around him can make the playoffs and be competitive. I think there are seven "superstars" in the league right now. LeBron, Durant, Wade, Rose, Dwight, Kobe and a healthy CP3.

Star: someone who, with the absolute perfect team around them, can lead a team to a title. This group is Dirk, Deron, Carmelo, Pierce and Nash.

Elite: Someone who is a top tier player, but will never be the guy to lead a team to a title. This group is Westbrook, Amare, Zbo, Blake (though he could jump up to a higher group), KG and Manu.

Top tier sidekick: Someone who, either based on what we've seen from them as a leader, a sidekick, or both, will never be the top guy on a contender, but is still an excellent player and is definitely worthy of being a sidekick on a contender. This group is Bosh, Pau Gasol, Joe Johnson, Kevin Love, LaMarcus Aldridge, Rondo and Ray Allen.

Very good player: Too many to list here, just a few would be Al Horford, Monta Ellis and Danny Granger. Guys who may never be top guys on a title team, but they are excellent players nonetheless.

My point is that we need to be careful when tossing around the term "superstar". It loses its' meaning if we use it on undeserving guys. Your list may differ from mine, and I even question a few of my placements (I might have to move Dirk up based on these playoffs), but overall I think there has to be separation. So what, to you all, defines a super star?

ManRam
05-13-2011, 07:55 PM
I think your assessments are pretty decent. Your definition of superstar is a bit hard to swallow considering only two of them have won it all and thus only two of them truly can undeniably "lead a good enough team to a title as its' best player". I think most of the rest could, but it's tough to use that to define a superstar. I don't have a way to define it better right now, however.

I'd put Dirk on the top tier honestly. He's been to the Finals as the clear first option, and might very well do it again. Yes, he has a great team around him, but when didn't Kobe...or the rest of the superstars of the past (Duncan, Shaq, Jordan even...)

I disagree with Pau being a top tier sidekick. Besides these playoffs, for a while now, he's certainly been "elite".

davids22
05-13-2011, 08:01 PM
Bosh is still an all-star caliber player, there's no denying that. If he gets put on a team as the #1 guy again, he'd be very much capable of scoring 20+ ppg and 10+ rpg. He has to play in Wade and Lebrons shadow and still averaged 17ish ppg and 8ish rpg. That's damn good for a 3rd option.

EDIT: To clarify, I don't think many people considered Bosh a "superstar". He's an all-star player good enough to be a part of a big 3, which is why they call Miami's trio "the big 3". But everyone in the right mind refers to "Lebron and Wade" as the stars of that team, and rightfully so.

Meloman
05-13-2011, 08:09 PM
I think your assessments are pretty decent. Your definition of superstar is a bit hard to swallow considering only two of them have won it all and thus only two of them truly can undeniably "lead a good enough team to a title as its' best player". I think most of the rest could, but it's tough to use that to define a superstar. I don't have a way to define it better right now, however.

I'd put Dirk on the top tier honestly. He's been to the Finals as the clear first option, and might very well do it again. Yes, he has a great team around him, but when didn't Kobe...or the rest of the superstars of the past (Duncan, Shaq, Jordan even...)

I disagree with Pau being a top tier sidekick. Besides these playoffs, for a while now, he's certainly been "elite".

I wasn't sure about Dirk, I could go either way, though given how he's played during these playoffs, and the fact that he may have become the most unguardable player in the NBA, I'm leaning towards calling him a super star.

Fnom11
05-13-2011, 08:16 PM
You put Blake high on that list? Can't tell is this is a serious post or not.

Iggz53
05-13-2011, 08:23 PM
Who knows. Everyone always has a different definition and always will. I personally don't care because labeling a player a superstar or not doesn't change anything.

Meloman
05-13-2011, 08:26 PM
You put Blake high on that list? Can't tell is this is a serious post or not.

He put up 22 and 12?

NetsPaint
05-13-2011, 08:29 PM
He put up 22 and 12?

But you gotta remember, his dunk contest let people down:rolleyes:.

Iggz53
05-13-2011, 08:37 PM
He put up 22 and 12?

No exaggeration, Griffin is one of the worst interior defenders in the NBA.

mttwlsn16
05-13-2011, 08:43 PM
You put Blake high on that list? Can't tell is this is a serious post or not.

definitely...avg'd 23, 12, and 3.5 as a rookie. something like 12th in scoring, 4th in rebounding, and then one or two in assist per game for PFs'
and no rookie has come into the league with his kind of excitement and explosiveness since lebron

Wrigheyes4MVP
05-13-2011, 08:49 PM
I would put Dirk as a Superstar.

He is gonna go down as one of the best offensive big men to ever play and the best european player ever IMO.

smith&wesson
05-13-2011, 08:54 PM
this is how i like to categories the players.

super star - lbj, wade, rose, kobe, howard, durant, cp3 ect . .

all star - melo, stat, dirk, dwill, gino, bosh, horford, allen, pierce ect. .

elite - granger, iggy, gay, gerald wallace, josh smith, aldridge ect. .

solid starter/role player - battier, felton, afallo, marion, dudley, ect. .

6th man - odem, terry, barbosa, jr smith

bench warmer - who ever you want

allSUAVE
05-13-2011, 08:55 PM
this is how i like to categories the players.

super star - lbj, wade, rose, kobe, howard, durant, cp3 ect . .

all star - melo, stat, dirk, dwill, gino, bosh, horford, allen, pierce ect. .

elite - granger, iggy, gay, gerald wallace, josh smith, aldridge ect. .

solid starter/role player - battier, felton, afallo, marion, dudley, ect. .

6th man - odem, terry, barbosa, jr smith

bench warmer - who ever you want

ok

allSUAVE
05-13-2011, 08:57 PM
Durant is so high on the list. he's just a scorer C'om now

tbone2171
05-13-2011, 09:10 PM
Some of you make the dumbest threads...guess i'm not sure why I'm even looking at this

llemon
05-13-2011, 09:55 PM
A group of morons?

Catfish1314
05-13-2011, 09:55 PM
Dirk falls into the superstar category. His postseason numbers for his career are ridiculous and he still gets 25 a game. Replace Dirk with the other people you have in the star category and the Mavs don't beat the Lakers. And probably not Portland either.

llemon
05-13-2011, 10:25 PM
Dirk falls into the superstar category. His postseason numbers for his career are ridiculous and he still gets 25 a game. Replace Dirk with the other people you have in the star category and the Mavs don't beat the Lakers. And probably not Portland either.

So it shall has been stated. So it must be correct.

Arch Stanton
05-13-2011, 10:58 PM
I think your assessments are pretty decent. Your definition of superstar is a bit hard to swallow considering only two of them have won it all and thus only two of them truly can undeniably "lead a good enough team to a title as its' best player". I think most of the rest could, but it's tough to use that to define a superstar. I don't have a way to define it better right now, however.

I'd put Dirk on the top tier honestly. He's been to the Finals as the clear first option, and might very well do it again. Yes, he has a great team around him, but when didn't Kobe...or the rest of the superstars of the past (Duncan, Shaq, Jordan even...)

I disagree with Pau being a top tier sidekick. Besides these playoffs, for a while now, he's certainly been "elite".

Completely agree. As much as I dislike LeBron he's probably the most amazing and talented player I've ever seen live.
It's funny because Dirk wouldn't be as high on the list a couple years back when they lost to the Warriors.

setman2000
05-14-2011, 01:43 AM
What defines a Superstar?

Directly from Websters Dictionary: "The intangibles Carmelo Anthony does not have."

210Don
05-14-2011, 01:45 AM
isnt elite above superstar and all star? lol

MeloandAmare
05-14-2011, 03:29 AM
dumb thread

Raph12
05-14-2011, 04:05 AM
Top 10 players in the league... Although there are players on the verge of being a superstar as well.

UnWantedTheory
05-14-2011, 04:48 AM
We could definitely define indefinitely.

UnWantedTheory
05-14-2011, 04:49 AM
An easy answer is to always listen to the media. They know what's best for us.

footballer2369
05-14-2011, 07:35 AM
I'm confused... I was under the impression the term "elite" was more exclusive than the term "star". Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

Backstabber
05-14-2011, 08:00 AM
I have trouble with Durant being so high on the list. I don't make a large distinction between him and Carmelo. Sure he might be a slightly better scorer, but Melo is a slightly better rebounder. They are similar offensive weapons, and neither player is Lebron/Wade caliber on defense.

I think including one as a superstar and the other as a star is purely arbitrary.

MSU4life
05-14-2011, 09:26 AM
Kyle Korver defins superstar, since day 1

ackar
05-14-2011, 09:50 AM
We toss this term around way too easily. Just one example, we talked all summer about the Miami trio, making it a given that Bosh was on the level of James and Wade. When the season started we saw that this just wasn't the case. We said the move to Miami and the big stage hurt him, when really he probably just wasn't THAT good of a player to begin with. So what exactly defines a superstar? Personally, I think there are several levels:

Superstar: someone who can lead a good enough team to a title as its' best player, and even with bad players around him can make the playoffs and be competitive. I think there are seven "superstars" in the league right now. LeBron, Durant, Wade, Rose, Dwight, Kobe and a healthy CP3.

Star: someone who, with the absolute perfect team around them, can lead a team to a title. This group is Dirk, Deron, Carmelo, Pierce and Nash.

Elite: Someone who is a top tier player, but will never be the guy to lead a team to a title. This group is Westbrook, Amare, Zbo, Blake (though he could jump up to a higher group), KG and Manu.

Top tier sidekick: Someone who, either based on what we've seen from them as a leader, a sidekick, or both, will never be the top guy on a contender, but is still an excellent player and is definitely worthy of being a sidekick on a contender. This group is Bosh, Pau Gasol, Joe Johnson, Kevin Love, LaMarcus Aldridge, Rondo and Ray Allen.

Very good player: Too many to list here, just a few would be Al Horford, Monta Ellis and Danny Granger. Guys who may never be top guys on a title team, but they are excellent players nonetheless.

My point is that we need to be careful when tossing around the term "superstar". It loses its' meaning if we use it on undeserving guys. Your list may differ from mine, and I even question a few of my placements (I might have to move Dirk up based on these playoffs), but overall I think there has to be separation. So what, to you all, defines a super star?

I basically agree with you but I would drop CP3 and put dirk in there. WOW I have this discussion with my cuz all the time great post!:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

sargon21
05-14-2011, 02:07 PM
I agree with everything you said, but putting Dirk up, and possibly CP3 down.

Chronz
05-14-2011, 08:37 PM
In not sure if super stars exist by your definition what makes you certain they could make playoffs no matter the situation

Chronz
05-14-2011, 08:46 PM
I agree with everything you said, but putting Dirk up, and possibly CP3 down.
Every post ive read from bulls fans concerning another pg has been negative today (well always for that matter). I could somewhat understand labeling wall/westbrook as cocky in comparison to rose but suggesting a healthy cp3 is in any way beneath rose as player is pure ignorance.

PrettyBoyJ
05-14-2011, 09:16 PM
Elite Should be above superstars.. And I thought there were only 3 elite players (Lebron, Kobe, Wade) with Dwight Howard and Kevin Durant making there cases to join those 3..

Superstars are the guys who arent on the guys mentioned above level but can still win you basketball games.. (Amare, Melo, CP, D-Will, Dirk, D. Rose,) Brandon Roy used to be on this list but injuries robbed him..

All-Stars are the guys who are the second option and prob. the leading scorer on a bad team, or guy who's the best player on an mediocre team or 2nd option if you will.. (Joe Johnson, Carlos Boozer, Danny Granger, Pau, Z-Bo, Bosh, K. Love, Westbrook, LA, Al Jeff, Blake, Gerald Wallace, Al Horford, Rondo)

Then you have your borderliners guys who have the potential to make it to an All-Star level (Rudy Gay, Iggy, Beasley, Steph Curry, Monta Elis)

heyman321
05-14-2011, 09:48 PM
Why is Durant considered a super star? I have a hard time understanding it.

VictimUK
05-15-2011, 04:53 AM
players that make the players around them better and have a big impact on both the defensive and offense end, there's only 4 superstars in the league IMO: Lebron, Wade, Kobe and Dwight, the rest are stars.

Hellcrooner
05-15-2011, 12:43 PM
SUperstar = Can lead a team to a title with some good company ( on their primes Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Wade END OF THE LIST FOR THE MOMENT)

STar= CAn Make serious runs with a good team or CAN TAKE A ****** LIKE HELL TEAM to playoffs ( Dirk- Melo- PAU etc )

Elite= Have never been first options but they do nice numbers ( richardson, Jeffersson, Manu, Parker etc etc)

tredigs
05-15-2011, 12:59 PM
Why is Durant considered a super star? I have a hard time understanding it.

Do you? Really?

The youngest player to hold a scoring title in NBA history - now back to back - the player who carried Team USA to a Gold medal in his first World Championships (our first win in that tournament since Dream Team II took it down 17 years ago), and the leader of one of the best teams in the NBA.

Does his lack of arrogance not appeal to your view of what a superstar should be? I'm honestly curious.

tredigs
05-15-2011, 01:01 PM
SUperstar = Can lead a team to a title with some good company ( on their primes Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Wade END OF THE LIST FOR THE MOMENT)

STar= CAn Make serious runs with a good team or CAN TAKE A ****** LIKE HELL TEAM to playoffs ( Dirk- Melo- PAU etc )

Elite= Have never been first options but they do nice numbers ( richardson, Jeffersson, Manu, Parker etc etc)

Yeah, that Lebron James guy - CLEARLY not a superstar. Well played 'Crooner.

John Walls Era
05-15-2011, 01:18 PM
How is Blake Griffin elite when he has proven nothing other than his leaping ability?

Only the media put players into so many different classes so that fans who have no knowledge of the game knows how to differentiate between players.

gsgs49
05-15-2011, 01:36 PM
SUperstar = Can lead a team to a title with some good company ( on their primes Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Wade END OF THE LIST FOR THE MOMENT)

STar= CAn Make serious runs with a good team or CAN TAKE A ****** LIKE HELL TEAM to playoffs ( Dirk- Melo- PAU etc )

Elite= Have never been first options but they do nice numbers ( richardson, Jeffersson, Manu, Parker etc etc)

What a terrible definition for the superstar
Lebron isn't a superstar?
Karl Malone a top 15 player all time wasn't a superstar?
You should realize that the lakers or the spurs as a team won a championship,Shaq or Duncan weren't playing alone they were playing with all star players,on the other hand Lebron was playing with scrubs.

Crackadalic
05-15-2011, 01:41 PM
A superstar is a player who plays on both end on the court and always lead by example and not with words. There are exception though like Dirk who isnt the best defender but his postseason numbers is hard to overlook

tredigs
05-15-2011, 02:04 PM
A superstar is a player who plays on both end on the court and always lead by example and not with words. There are exception though like Dirk who isnt the best defender but his postseason numbers is hard to overlook

Do you consider Amare or Melo superstars?

For what it's worth, this thread is ultimately meaningless. A superstar is just a great player who generates a lot of buzz in the media. We have this same thread a lot, and it's by definition not possible (and stupid) to create a fine line as to what a persons interpretation of which players are superstars.

The best way for me to define and compare superstar athletes is to liken them to actual stars. Some are hypergiants (D. Howard), some are supernovas (exploded stars - aka Shaq), some are white dwarfs (Nash), and some are black holes (Al Harrington). No use nitpicking over semantics fellas.

Hellcrooner
05-15-2011, 02:11 PM
Lebron has his chance this season.

VictimUK
05-15-2011, 02:22 PM
Do you consider Amare or Melo superstars?

For what it's worth, this thread is ultimately meaningless. A superstar is just a great player who generates a lot of buzz in the media. We have this same thread a lot, and it's by definition not possible (and stupid) to create a fine line as to what a persons interpretation of which players are superstars.

The best way for me to define and compare superstar athletes is to liken them to actual stars. Some are hypergiants (D. Howard), some are supernovas (exploded stars - aka Shaq), some are white dwarfs (Nash), and some are black holes (Al Harrington). No use nitpicking over semantics fellas.

No IMO, people say Melo is a good defender 'when i'm motivated' im sorry but if your a true superstar you give effort on both ends of the court consistently, this is why Amare isn't a superstar, he might score 30 but the opposite PF scores 30 on him.

tredigs
05-15-2011, 02:34 PM
Lebron has his chance this season.

You confuse champion with superstar Crooner. I realize English isn't your first language, so we'll give you a pass on it. But LeBron is one of the biggest stars in the games history, the superstar alongside a somewhat fading Kobe, and that's regardless of whether or not he wins a ring. I realize that you know this and are just trolling, but give it a rest.

Kobes a Killer
05-15-2011, 02:35 PM
I like how every few months we get the exact same threads popping up all over again.


Dirk=Superstar by the way

3RDASYSTEM
05-15-2011, 03:07 PM
A Superstar sells out all the home games before the season starts pretty much and a gang of tickets on the road(Rockstar status), a Superstar gets max money with no backlash from the peers/media, a tru Superstar wins at least 1game in playoffs(peak/prime yrs im talking about),sells 80pct+ of jersey/merchandise of Franchise and shows up to play and the team follow suits and changing the culture(revolutionize a position)of your team/league..to me thats a Superstar, but In todays sport world if you have one good wk/month you're a Superstar all of a sudden,its borderline travesty MAGIC/JORDAN/SHAQ/GARNETT/IVERSON/WADE/MELO/JAMES/DUNCAN/DIRK/OLAJUWON/BARKLEY/MALONE - those are who i can think of off top but im sure its a few other,SUPERSTARS

sargon21
05-15-2011, 03:24 PM
Every post ive read from bulls fans concerning another pg has been negative today (well always for that matter). I could somewhat understand labeling wall/westbrook as cocky in comparison to rose but suggesting a healthy cp3 is in any way beneath rose as player is pure ignorance.

Good thing I value your opinion.