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View Full Version : Is Ricky Rubio better than Kyrie Irving?



Savage Sunday
05-10-2011, 04:13 PM
This might actually be a question David Kahn has to answer if the T'Wolves get the #1 or #2 pick.

Rubio could potentially come over this year and this could lead to the T'Wolves having 3 PG's drafted in the Lottery playing together in Rubio, Irving, & Flynn. Or they might have to decide if Irving is better than Rubio and worth taking despite owning Rubio's rights.

So who is a better PG prospect?

SteveNash
05-10-2011, 04:19 PM
Rubio in Euroleague: 6.5 pts 31% FG% 22% 3p% 3.6 ast
Irving in the NCAA: 17.5 pts 53% FG% 46% 3P% 4.3 ast

Savage Sunday
05-10-2011, 04:22 PM
Rubio in Euroleague: 6.5 pts 31% FG% 22% 3p% 3.6 ast
Irving in the NCAA: 17.5 pts 53% FG% 46% 3P% 4.3 ast
lol

Well some people who watch the Euroleague say he plays much better than his stats indicate due to the system.

SteveNash
05-10-2011, 04:25 PM
lol

Well some people who watch the Euroleague say he plays much better than his stats indicate due to the system.

Stats indicate how broken his jumpshot is.

But he doesn't have some intangibles, such as playing defense like this:
http://imgur.com/o7OdG.gif

beltran15mets
05-10-2011, 04:27 PM
irving is a scorer while rubio is a passer. so it depends what your team is looking for at the pg position

smith&wesson
05-10-2011, 04:27 PM
theres already a thread on this. http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=617350&highlight=ricky+rubio

PurpleJesus
05-10-2011, 04:31 PM
Rubio in Euroleague: 6.5 pts 31% FG% 22% 3p% 3.6 ast
Irving in the NCAA: 17.5 pts 53% FG% 46% 3P% 4.3 ast

Brandon Jennings in Euroleague: 7.6 points, 1.6 assts
Brandon Jennings in NBA : 15.8 points, 5.3 assts

Euroleague stats are pointless.

Gators123
05-10-2011, 04:32 PM
Irving.

Sadds The Gr8
05-10-2011, 04:36 PM
Stats indicate how broken his jumpshot is.

But he doesn't have some intangibles, such as playing defense like this:
http://imgur.com/o7OdG.gif

:laugh::laugh:. he got ****in shimmied hahahahahhahahahaha

Hawkeye15
05-10-2011, 04:39 PM
we will find out when they both get to the NBA. I don't think Irving would have held his own as a teenager against Paul, Deron, Billups, Rose, Curry, or Westbrook, but Irving obviously is the better scorer, while Rubio is a gifted passer. Defensively, if Rubio can turn his ball hawking skills into an asset without physically getting beat up, then you have to decide this way.

Do you want a 19-6 PG in their prime?
Do you want a 14-10-3 PG in their prime?

Which one do you want? There is your answer if they both pan out how scouts project them.

Lake_Show2416
05-10-2011, 04:43 PM
:laugh2: if the wolves grab another PG that'd be hilarious, the GM should b fired if he takes a point

for me personally I like Irving better but they both r top ranked prospects who r unproven, so I think their value is very close

Sly Guy
05-10-2011, 04:46 PM
LOL, I don't know, the only person I saw play less than the injured Irving is the absent Rubio.

Savage Sunday
05-10-2011, 04:48 PM
we will find out when they both get to the NBA. I don't think Irving would have held his own as a teenager against Paul, Deron, Billups, Rose, Curry, or Westbrook, but Irving obviously is the better scorer, while Rubio is a gifted passer. Defensively, if Rubio can turn his ball hawking skills into an asset without physically getting beat up, then you have to decide this way.

Do you want a 19-6 PG in their prime?
Do you want a 14-10-3 PG in their prime?

Which one do you want? There is your answer if they both pan out how scouts project them.

So should the T'Wolves pass on Irving if they do end up with the #1 or #2 pick?
This would mean trading out or taking Enes Kanter or Bismack Biyombo.

It would be kinda crazy if they added Irving and tried to do what the Mavs do by using 4 PG's in their rotation. It might work but they have a lot of needs.

Hellcrooner
05-10-2011, 04:55 PM
Rubio in Euroleague: 6.5 pts 31% FG% 22% 3p% 3.6 ast
Irving in the NCAA: 17.5 pts 53% FG% 46% 3P% 4.3 ast

check jennings stats in europe.

oh, its you.

nevermind.

jockrider
05-10-2011, 05:05 PM
irving is a scorer while rubio is a passer. so it depends what your team is looking for at the pg position

irving is true point guard. great facilitator and can score for you.

Hawkeye15
05-10-2011, 05:06 PM
:laugh2: if the wolves grab another PG that'd be hilarious, the GM should b fired if he takes a point

for me personally I like Irving better but they both r top ranked prospects who r unproven, so I think their value is very close

when you win 17 games, I don't care if you have 12 PG's. If the consensus #1 pick is a PG, you take him. Period.

Hawkeye15
05-10-2011, 05:10 PM
So should the T'Wolves pass on Irving if they do end up with the #1 or #2 pick?
This would mean trading out or taking Enes Kanter or Bismack Biyombo.

It would be kinda crazy if they added Irving and tried to do what the Mavs do by using 4 PG's in their rotation. It might work but they have a lot of needs.

If they get the #1 pick, they will bring in Irving and Williams for workouts, and probably select between the two, whomever they feel is better. You can see a 2 PG system work if one of them is tall (Rubio is around 6'4"), and with Irving's scoring ability, it can work against many teams. The Mavs do it, the Nuggets did it over the last 25 games of the season and the playoffs, etc.

If the Wolves get the #2 pick they simply take whomever falls, probably Williams, and move on.

The last part of your statement is just it. Like Ford said in his mock draft, you can criticize the Wolves all you want for drafting and signing PG's. Its still a weakness. You keep trying until you get it right, and Irving would be the pick if he were the best player there.

Hell, I can think of worse things that having Irving and Rubio on the roster, and letting them battle it out over their first two seasons to see who the legit PG is.

knicksfan42
05-10-2011, 05:11 PM
I'm sure the per game stats are different in Europe, but I'm pretty sure the %s could be looked at the same way and his shooting %s look pretty awful.

JPHX
05-10-2011, 05:24 PM
it is harder to refine a PG's court vision than his scoring ability. I'd take rubio just because theres not a lot of pass first point guards anymore.

they should look to trade down. grab derrick williams.

Hawkeye15
05-10-2011, 05:28 PM
The Wolves will not get the #1 pick, they have always been screwed in the draft. So really, this question shouldn't involve the Wolves. It's a prospect comparison.

Trust me, the Wolves aint getting the right to Irving anyways. The NBA can't allow the Wolves to get a #1 pick.

CeeDub15
05-10-2011, 05:34 PM
Rubio in Euroleague: 6.5 pts 31% FG% 22% 3p% 3.6 ast
Irving in the NCAA: 17.5 pts 53% FG% 46% 3P% 4.3 ast

I see this talk alot. Euroleague is different dude, assists are given out differently.

CeeDub15
05-10-2011, 05:37 PM
:laugh2: if the wolves grab another PG that'd be hilarious, the GM should b fired if he takes a point

for me personally I like Irving better but they both r top ranked prospects who r unproven, so I think their value is very close

How would it be hilarious if we took a PG? You have to go BAP, if you go by need, your going to get fired as well. If we get #1/#2, Dwill or Irving are gonna be a Wolve, I would be happy to get either, im assuming one would be dealt or play alongside eachother for a year maybe.

Chill_Will_24
05-10-2011, 05:39 PM
Stats indicate how broken his jumpshot is.

But he doesn't have some intangibles, such as playing defense like this:
http://imgur.com/o7OdG.gif

WOW Thats crazy! Rose would absolutely break Rubio's knees!!! I didnt know his defense was that bad. He seems perfect for the Knicks.

CeeDub15
05-10-2011, 05:43 PM
I've never seen someone judge a player by one highlight lol.

championships
05-10-2011, 05:43 PM
I see this talk alot. Euroleague is different dude, assists are given out differently.

But shooting % isn't. Rubio is a horrible shooter. Being that one dimensional makes you easier to guard. Teams would just back off of him, play the pass, and dare him to shoot. Taking him out of his game.

Hawkeye15
05-10-2011, 05:46 PM
WOW Thats crazy! Rose would absolutely break Rubio's knees!!! I didnt know his defense was that bad. He seems perfect for the Knicks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiCxEe1zo8I

not really. As I have said before, what other PG as a teenager has more than held his own (and made some of our best look silly) against our top PG's?

He signed with a championship caliber team over there that stunted his growth, because they don't really have time to develop him, they are only interested in winning. The three point line was moved back this season as well in the Euroleague. When he gets over here, NBA teams have skills coach's on staff that will work with his shot.
Rubio will need to make defensive adjustments, but he is very disruptive and even Kobe has said he has the fastest hands he has seen.

PurpleJesus
05-10-2011, 05:47 PM
But shooting % isn't. Rubio is a horrible shooter. Being that one dimensional makes you easier to guard. Teams would just back off of him, play the pass, and dare him to shoot. Taking him out of his game.

yup, that strategy works perfectly for rose and rondo right?

Chill_Will_24
05-10-2011, 05:47 PM
I've never seen someone judge a player by one highlight lol.

lol im not judging him entirely off of this but cmon man! You telling me you cant see Derrick Rose literally breaking that kid's ankles? Deron Williams would send him flying with that step back dribble of his. CP3 would make him his **** on iso situations. Im laughing just thinking about it

Hawkeye15
05-10-2011, 05:48 PM
But shooting % isn't. Rubio is a horrible shooter. Being that one dimensional makes you easier to guard. Teams would just back off of him, play the pass, and dare him to shoot. Taking him out of his game.

and shooting is the easiest thing to fix dude. You are either born with court vision, or you are not. You are either born with quick hands, or you are not. Shooting is a mechanical skill that can be improved big time.

AI4MVP
05-10-2011, 05:49 PM
lol im not judging him entirely off of this but cmon man! You telling me you cant see Derrick Rose literally breaking that kid's ankles? Deron Williams would send him flying with that step back dribble of his. CP3 would make him his **** on iso situations. Im laughing just thinking about it

you obvviously didnt see the world championships when ricky rubio made derrick rose look like a little girl

KnicksR4Real
05-10-2011, 05:50 PM
The Wolves would piss alot of people off if they drafted Irving

Hawkeye15
05-10-2011, 05:50 PM
lol im not judging him entirely off of this but cmon man! You telling me you cant see Derrick Rose literally breaking that kid's ankles? Deron Williams would send him flying with that step back dribble of his. CP3 would make him his **** on iso situations. Im laughing just thinking about it

watch the video I posted. Cause I saw him steal a lazy Rose pass, blow by Rose on the offensive end, create easy looks in transition against Curry and Rose, and more. Sure he did a few stupid things in there and got beat a couple of times, but he was 19, going against our best young PG's

He held his own, no problem.

CeeDub15
05-10-2011, 05:53 PM
lol im not judging him entirely off of this but cmon man! You telling me you cant see Derrick Rose literally breaking that kid's ankles? Deron Williams would send him flying with that step back dribble of his. CP3 would make him his **** on iso situations. Im laughing just thinking about it

Check out the youtube vid above that hawkeye posted, his defense isnt that bad. D.Rose flies by alot of guys ankles in the nba already.

Tanakid777
05-10-2011, 05:54 PM
lol @ people who use stats to evaluate euroleague players

MrfadeawayJB
05-10-2011, 05:54 PM
Irving would probably eat Rubio up 1 on 1

PurpleJesus
05-10-2011, 05:55 PM
people think he cant play in the NBA have never seen him play against the NBA's best, where he didnt just hold his own, but was a star.

CeeDub15
05-10-2011, 05:56 PM
Irving would probably eat Rubio up 1 on 1

Rubio isnt a scorer man, maybe when he comes over here and learns some things he can be ok, but at PG, we arent looking for just a scorer, we are looking for a PG that can set stuff up for other players too.

Chill_Will_24
05-10-2011, 05:57 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiCxEe1zo8I

not really. As I have said before, what other PG as a teenager has more than held his own (and made some of our best look silly) against our top PG's?

He signed with a championship caliber team over there that stunted his growth, because they don't really have time to develop him, they are only interested in winning. The three point line was moved back this season as well in the Euroleague. When he gets over here, NBA teams have skills coach's on staff that will work with his shot.
Rubio will need to make defensive adjustments, but he is very disruptive and even Kobe has said he has the fastest hands he has seen.

Rubio on the fastbreak= :drool:

Love the video btw... Great to see he can hold his own defensively cuz the athleticsm is top notch over here so he needs to adjust accordingly

MrfadeawayJB
05-10-2011, 05:57 PM
Rubio isnt a scorer man, maybe when he comes over here and learns some things he can be ok, but at PG, we arent looking for just a scorer, we are looking for a PG that can set stuff up for other players too.

now in days there are no true pg's in the nba. You have to be able to score. If you cant your playing 4 on 5

Chill_Will_24
05-10-2011, 05:59 PM
watch the video I posted. Cause I saw him steal a lazy Rose pass, blow by Rose on the offensive end, create easy looks in transition against Curry and Rose, and more. Sure he did a few stupid things in there and got beat a couple of times, but he was 19, going against our best young PG's

He held his own, no problem.

I watched and I HAVE SEEN THE LIIIIIGHT! Although... Rose... turning the ball over... whats new?

Hawkeye15
05-10-2011, 06:02 PM
Rubio on the fastbreak= :drool:

Love the video btw... Great to see he can hold his own defensively cuz the athleticsm is top notch over here so he needs to adjust accordingly

obviously he will need to make adjustments, like not crowding a PG 23 feet from the rim, like he does there. Our PG's are much better at hammering straight down the lane and scoring, so he will need to pick and choose when to pressure. But yes, watching him last summer, the second he came into the game he picked a Rose pass off. He will be fine over here, trust me.

And Kevin Love outletting the ball to Rubio, that deserves a :drool:

Hawkeye15
05-10-2011, 06:04 PM
now in days there are no true pg's in the nba. You have to be able to score. If you cant your playing 4 on 5

Rondo??????

And as I said earlier, shooting is a mechanic, and pure skill. Its easy to fix and improve someone to at least be acceptable.

MrfadeawayJB
05-10-2011, 06:10 PM
Rondo??????

And as I said earlier, shooting is a mechanic, and pure skill. Its easy to fix and improve someone to at least be acceptable.

Well I guess you can say Rondo is the closest thing to a pure pg. But if Rondo did not have 3 Hall of Famers on his team he would prob. be a average starter at best. I like Rubio and would like to see him do well, but I just dont see it. He looks good in parts of your video but once he plays these guys night in and night out, every one will figure out his tricks and tendencies and he will be less effective.

Improving his shooting is a must. I do see some pistol pete in him, but pistol pete could score with the best of them. If rubio cant score consistently, people will take away all his passing lanes and get used to his flip passes/ no look passes. IMO Iriving is better than Rubio

KnicksR4Real
05-10-2011, 06:11 PM
Rubio is legit. I'd take him over Irving anyday.

CeeDub15
05-10-2011, 06:13 PM
Dont get me wrong tho, id love either one. If we play a 2 PG system with them both, im not gonna complain. But i could see us trading one of them in the future, we would keep the one that we think fits our system better, and obviously the better one.

Chill_Will_24
05-10-2011, 06:14 PM
you obvviously didnt see the world championships when ricky rubio made derrick rose look like a little girl

From what i can see, he made some great plays with his beautiful passing ability and made a few steals showing his quick hands. He didnt make Rose look like anything more or less than what he is; turnover prone.

Hawkeye15
05-10-2011, 06:16 PM
Well I guess you can say Rondo is the closest thing to a pure pg. But if Rondo did not have 3 Hall of Famers on his team he would prob. be a average starter at best. I like Rubio and would like to see him do well, but I just dont see it. He looks good in parts of your video but once he plays these guys night in and night out, every one will figure out his tricks and tendencies and he will be less effective.

Improving his shooting is a must. I do see some pistol pete in him, but pistol pete could score with the best of them. If rubio cant score consistently, people will take away all his passing lanes and get used to his flip passes/ no look passes. IMO Iriving is better than Rubio

Of course Rubio's shooting must improve. And it will. As I said, he decided to sign with a win now team, and they don't develop players over there like they do here, with skills coach's, and specifics. When Rubio gets over here, he will be assigned a shooting coach, who will break him down, get him comfortable, and build his shot up. The three point line was moved back this year, so many shooters struggled to adapt over there this season.

Rubio has floor vision that is rarely seen. That is a skill that can not be learned. He is an excellent ball handler, and has fast hands, great reflexes, and anticipation that can not be taught. What he lacks are a couple of pure basketball skills, which CAN be taught. Irving can't grow another 3-4 inches (or probably not) to match Rubio's height. Irving can't learn how to see things most people cannot on the floor, etc. Irving will be a good player I am sure, I wish we could have seen more of him this season, but I like his ability to keep square on his drives, and finish with contact, and I like his shooting ability, and defensive ability. But Rubio possesses something almost no PG does. The ability to find you even when you appear to not be open. Skills can be taught. Natural abilities can not.

So, going forward, if the Wolves somehow land Irving, I would play them together and get the real answer to this thread. As for prospects, I would say they are even, just depends on what you are looking for.

Chill_Will_24
05-10-2011, 06:18 PM
obviously he will need to make adjustments, like not crowding a PG 23 feet from the rim, like he does there. Our PG's are much better at hammering straight down the lane and scoring, so he will need to pick and choose when to pressure. But yes, watching him last summer, the second he came into the game he picked a Rose pass off. He will be fine over here, trust me.

And Kevin Love outletting the ball to Rubio, that deserves a :drool:

I hope it all works out for Minny. I cant think of an NBA franshise that has been screwed over more. If i was Minny i would take Irving and trade Rubio while his value is high. Im opposed to keeping a player that wants to play elsewhere and will obviously leave the organization as soon as he can

championships
05-10-2011, 06:19 PM
yup, that strategy works perfectly for rose and rondo right?

With Rondo, Yes it does. With Rose it doesn't work because he isn't looking to pass first plus he has the ability to get to the rack at will and finishes well.

Hawkeye15
05-10-2011, 06:20 PM
I hope it all works out for Minny. I cant think of an NBA franshise that has been screwed over more. If i was Minny i would take Irving and trade Rubio while his value is high. Im opposed to keeping a player that wants to play elsewhere and will obviously leave the organization as soon as he can

oh I know Kobe is a fan of Rubio, so I have said in the Wolves board that if we get Irving, trade Rubio/Beasley to LA for Bynum. Would help both teams if the Lakers have their sites set on Dwight.

MrfadeawayJB
05-10-2011, 06:22 PM
Of course Rubio's shooting must improve. And it will. As I said, he decided to sign with a win now team, and they don't develop players over there like they do here, with skills coach's, and specifics. When Rubio gets over here, he will be assigned a shooting coach, who will break him down, get him comfortable, and build his shot up. The three point line was moved back this year, so many shooters struggled to adapt over there this season.

Rubio has floor vision that is rarely seen. That is a skill that can not be learned. He is an excellent ball handler, and has fast hands, great reflexes, and anticipation that can not be taught. What he lacks are a couple of pure basketball skills, which CAN be taught. Irving can't grow another 3-4 inches (or probably not) to match Rubio's height. Irving can't learn how to see things most people cannot on the floor, etc. Irving will be a good player I am sure, I wish we could have seen more of him this season, but I like his ability to keep square on his drives, and finish with contact, and I like his shooting ability, and defensive ability. But Rubio possesses something almost no PG does. The ability to find you even when you appear to not be open. Skills can be taught. Natural abilities can not.

So, going forward, if the Wolves somehow land Irving, I would play them together and get the real answer to this thread. As for prospects, I would say they are even, just depends on what you are looking for.



well the whole discussion is a mute point until we see them both in the league for a couple of years. I want rubio to play well, he is def a rare breed.

championships
05-10-2011, 06:23 PM
oh I know Kobe is a fan of Rubio, so I have said in the Wolves board that if we get Irving, trade Rubio/Beasley to LA for Bynum. Would help both teams if the Lakers have their sites set on Dwight.

No thank you.

Iodine
05-10-2011, 06:24 PM
I have been WELL documented on my distaste for Rubio, but still neither have even been to a NBA TC or summer league.

Hawkeye15
05-10-2011, 06:24 PM
No thank you.

haha, well, the Lakers are going to have to do something. They are way up there in age with their core, and must become younger. They have no choice at this point. If they think they can get Dwight with Bynum and pieces, obviously you take that. But with the Lakers moving out of the triangle, and the league being a PG league now, do you really want to roll with Fisher and Blake running a normal offense? Yikes

Iodine
05-10-2011, 06:26 PM
haha, well, the Lakers are going to have to do something. They are way up there in age with their core, and must become younger. They have no choice at this point. If they think they can get Dwight with Bynum and pieces, obviously you take that. But with the Lakers moving out of the triangle, and the league being a PG league now, do you really want to roll with Fisher and Blake running a normal offense? Yikes

Luke Walton duh!

championships
05-10-2011, 06:30 PM
haha, well, the Lakers are going to have to do something. They are way up there in age with their core, and must become younger. They have no choice at this point. If they think they can get Dwight with Bynum and pieces, obviously you take that. But with the Lakers moving out of the triangle, and the league being a PG league now, do you really want to roll with Fisher and Blake running a normal offense? Yikes

I do agree that the Lakers need some changes But as you stated earlier, Rubio needs to be with a team that can develop him and not with a win now Championship caliber team, Which the Lakers are and always try to be.

For Beasley, The last thing the Lakers need is another head case. We already have enough of those.

Hawkeye15
05-10-2011, 06:31 PM
I do agree that the Lakers need some changes But as you stated earlier, Rubio needs to be with a team that can develop him and not with a win now Championship caliber team, Which the Lakers are and always try to be.

For Beasley, The last thing the Lakers need is another head case. We already have enough of those.

no, you need another guy with tunnel vision that forgets he is in a team sport 11 times a game, I am sure of it.

Hawkeye15
05-10-2011, 06:32 PM
Luke Walton duh!

that's by B

Iodine
05-10-2011, 06:34 PM
Also, according to a few of the people deal with at my work, Shannon Brown is the future at PG.....

Im sorry LA

championships
05-10-2011, 06:38 PM
Also, according to a few of the people deal with at my work, Shannon Brown is the future at PG.....

Im sorry LA

Hell no. Alot of fans I know don't even like him. Besides I believe he opts out this off season.

championships
05-10-2011, 06:39 PM
no, you need another guy with tunnel vision that forgets he is in a team sport 11 times a game, I am sure of it.

I Trust Dr.Buss knows what he is doing.

C-ross12
05-10-2011, 06:44 PM
What is with the "trading out" remarks? Its the NBA. You take the best player that is there. It isn't football. You have 5 possible positions to improve if you in the lottery. If you have 5 PG's, and the best player in the draft is a PG, ou take the PG.

jets-24
05-10-2011, 08:05 PM
honestly u shoul rename this i think johnnie flynn is better than both of them

Hawkeye15
05-10-2011, 08:13 PM
honestly u shoul rename this i think johnnie flynn is better than both of them

you can't possibly be serious. And if you truly believe that, I need to educate you.

hype707
05-10-2011, 08:18 PM
Rubio is better right now but who knows that the NBA has for these guys