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Cano4prez
05-09-2011, 02:32 PM
1st team

Dwight
Rondo
LeBron
Kobe
Garnett

2nd team

Tony Allen
Chris Paul
Tyson Chandler
Andre Igodaula
Joakim Noah

Link (http://www.nba.com/2011/news/05/09/2010-11-all-defensive-teams/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2)


Kobe on 1st team?:laugh2:

Chronz
05-09-2011, 02:34 PM
Not surprising considering the coaches dont give a **** about these selections. Iggy should be before Kobe and WTF is Noah doing up there?

haggis
05-09-2011, 02:34 PM
EW YORK -- Orlando Magic center Dwight Howard, winner of the last three Kia NBA Defensive Player of the Year Awards, headlines the NBA All-Defensive First Team, the NBA announced today. Howard totaled 56 points overall, including 27 First Team votes.

Also selected to the All-Defensive First Team are guard Rajon Rondo of the Boston Celtics (39 points), forward LeBron James of the Miami Heat (38 points), forward Kevin Garnett of the Boston Celtics (33 points), and guard Kobe Bryant of the Los Angeles Lakers (33 points). Garnett and Bryant each earn All-Defensive First Team honors for the ninth time, tying Michael Jordan and Gary Payton for the most in NBA history.

Howard earned the 2010-11 Kia NBA Defensive Player of the Year Award, becoming the first player to win the award three straight seasons. He led the league with 66 double-doubles, while ranking second in rebounds (14.1 rpg) and fourth in blocks (2.38 bpg). He recorded at least 1,000 reboundsand 100 blocked shots for the sixth straight year; since blocked shots were officially tracked in 1973-74, only Moses Malone has done it more (seven seasons). With Howard manning the middle, the Magic allowed 93.5 ppg, ranking fourth in that category.

The NBA All-Defensive Second Team consists of guards Tony Allen of the Memphis Grizzlies, and Chris Paul of the New Orleans Hornets, center Tyson Chandler of the Dallas Mavericks, forward Andre Iguodala of the Philadelphia 76ers, and forward-center Joakim Noah of the Chicago Bulls.
The voting panel consisted of the NBA's 30 head coaches, who were asked to select NBA All-Defensive First and Second Teams by position. Coaches were not permitted to vote for players from their own team. Two points were awarded for a First Team vote and one point was awarded for a Second Team vote.

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/05/09/2010-11-all-defensive-teams/?ls=iref:nbahpt2


First Team:

C - Dwight Howard
F - Kevin Garnett
F - Lebron James
G - Kobe Bryant
G - Rajon Rondo

Second Team:

C - Tyson Chandler
F - Andre Iguodala
F/C - Joakim Noah
G - Tony Allen
G - Chris Paul


Other players receiving votes, with point totals (First Team votes in parentheses): Derrick Rose, Chicago, 14 (4); Dwyane Wade, Miami, 13 (3); Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City, 13 (4); Gerald Wallace, Portland, 11 (1); Grant Hill, Phoenix 11 (4); Luol Deng, Chicago 11 (4); Tim Duncan, San Antonio, 11 (3); Chuck Hayes, Houston, 10 (2); Al Horford, Atlanta 7 (3); Josh Smith, Atlanta, 7 (1); Ron Artest, Los Angeles Lakers, 7 (1); Serge Ibaka, Oklahoma City, 6 (1); Shane Battier, Memphis 5 (2); Thabo Sefolosha, Oklahoma City, 5; Wesley Matthews, Portland 4 (2), Kendrick Perkins, Oklahoma City, 3; Nicolas Batum, Portland, 3; (1); Joe Johnson, Atlanta; 2 (1); Keith Bogans, Chicago 2 (1); Kyle Lowry, Houston, 2; Lamar Odom, Los Angeles Lakers, 2; Luc Mbah a Moute, Milwaukee, 2; Manu Ginobili, San Antonio, 2 (1); Andrew Bogut, Milwaukee, 1; Andrew Bynum, Los Angeles Lakers 1; Arron Afflalo, Denver, 1; Jrue Holiday, Philadelphia 1; Kirk Hinrich, Atlanta 1; Nene, Denver, 1; Ronnie Brewer, Chicago, 1; Shawn Marion, Dallas, 1; Tayshaun Prince, Detroit, 1.

Thoughts? Snubs?

haggis
05-09-2011, 02:37 PM
EDIT: Sorry, didn't see the other thread. Mods, can you merge?

Super.
05-09-2011, 02:37 PM
Hell DWade deserves it more than Kobe. But it should be Iggy on the first team

JordansBulls
05-09-2011, 02:37 PM
Wow, Kobe made 1st team and he had like 12 blocks on the year. He couldn't even defend his shadow last year.

Hawkeye15
05-09-2011, 02:40 PM
well, the NBA continues to make a joke of the all defensive team. Way to stay consistent NBA!

Bruno
05-09-2011, 02:42 PM
I'll be the first to say that Bryant won this off reputation; he doesn't even belong on the second team, let alone the first team.

The Lakers got dominated by Dallas large in part because of perimeter defense, or lack there of. As soon as Fisher or Bryant got broken down with a pick and roll the Laker defense was exposed, and were late with rotations for four games in a row. That all starts with Kobe and Fish.

theheatles
05-09-2011, 02:44 PM
good, more motivation for wade for tonight

Cano4prez
05-09-2011, 02:45 PM
I'm disappointed Wade wasn't on 1st or 2nd team this year..

zB_#85
05-09-2011, 02:45 PM
Lakers fan. Kobe's my favorite player, BUT: He shouldn't be on any all defensive team, let alone 1st team. I must agree with Bruno on this one.

ManRam
05-09-2011, 02:47 PM
Kobe on first team is the only thing I'm really terribly upset about. Rose getting the most votes amongst players not on the first or second team is a joke too.

This shouldn't be affected by star power or offensive prowess...I'd love to see more lesser names get in on this; the guys who are actually the elite defenders.

Baller1
05-09-2011, 02:47 PM
Kobe?! :laugh:

I wish Ibaka could've gotten some recognition by being on one of the teams, but he definitely needs to work on his man to man post defense. Mine would be:

First Team:
Wade
Igoudala
Lebron
Garnett
Dwight

Second Team:
Rondo
CP3
Allen
Hayes
Chandler

JordansBulls
05-09-2011, 02:48 PM
Not that blocks are the all be all, but Wade had 87 blocks on the season and 111 steals to Kobe's 99 steals and 12 blocks.

How the hell do you average .1 bpg on a season for someone that height and get 1st team all defense?

Hawkeye15
05-09-2011, 02:48 PM
When they release awards like this, it just goes to show how big of a waste of time it is for all of us to create threads 10 times a season asking "who should be BLANK". Its a popularity contest many times. There is no way on god's green earth Kobe should be on 1st team all defense (and I would argue a couple other of his years he was selected were bogus as well). Why the hell is Noah on 2nd team?

Its like the golden glove in baseball. I am a Yankee fan, but how does Jeter win one recently? Really? I am sick of coach's just saying, "eh, he has been on it for 5 years, and I am too lazy to research who should REALLY be on the team, so just give it to the same guy we always do"

Put some god damn effort into these awards NBA.

KnicksR4Real
05-09-2011, 02:50 PM
**** Kobe! (Also Noah)

NJ Raven
05-09-2011, 02:51 PM
I'm glad Tony Allen got the recognition he deserves.

MagicBucsSox
05-09-2011, 02:53 PM
1st team should be
Rondo
Allen
Iggy
Ibaka
D12

SB1
05-09-2011, 02:54 PM
Kobe on the 1st team is a joke. I wish they would stop voting off reputation.

Rivera
05-09-2011, 02:56 PM
i think psd predicted the nba 1st team pretty accuratley

i really dont have any problem with the nba 1st team...theres only one change i would make

i would swap kobe with tony allen and thats it

macc
05-09-2011, 02:56 PM
of liked to see Grant Hill get some love. He's been locking down players all year long.

Baller1
05-09-2011, 03:00 PM
of liked to see Grant Hill get some love. He's been locking down players all year long.

I contemplated putting him on mine as well. Especially considering his age, he's been outstanding defensively.

king4day
05-09-2011, 03:01 PM
Stunned that Hill was snubbed. He got some first place votes but couldn't even crack second team.

Crackadalic
05-09-2011, 03:02 PM
As hard as it is to believe PSD posters are smarter then the media.

gotoHcarolina52
05-09-2011, 03:03 PM
Wade got the shaft = Celtics will feel his wrath

Sadds The Gr8
05-09-2011, 03:05 PM
kobe being on it doesnt surprise me at all. just shows what a joke the nba is.

Hawkeye15
05-09-2011, 03:07 PM
To any Kobe supporters out there who think anyone saying he has no business on the 1st team, instead of coming back with the term, "hater", attempt to prove WHY Kobe has any business sniffing 1st team, let alone 2nd. You will be taken slightly more serious.

DamnGoat
05-09-2011, 03:07 PM
I'm glad one of the Bulls made it but if anyone deserved it was Deng, not Noah.

HuRRiCaNeS324
05-09-2011, 03:08 PM
When they release awards like this, it just goes to show how big of a waste of time it is for all of us to create threads 10 times a season asking "who should be BLANK". Its a popularity contest many times. There is no way on god's green earth Kobe should be on 1st team all defense (and I would argue a couple other of his years he was selected were bogus as well). Why the hell is Noah on 2nd team?

Its like the golden glove in baseball. I am a Yankee fan, but how does Jeter win one recently? Really? I am sick of coach's just saying, "eh, he has been on it for 5 years, and I am too lazy to research who should REALLY be on the team, so just give it to the same guy we always do"

Put some god damn effort into these awards NBA.

This.

They should really do research because players like Tony Allen need to be recognized and rewarded regardless of where they play or how popular they are.

dnewguy
05-09-2011, 03:09 PM
Ugh, Kobe?

FinsSuperBowl
05-09-2011, 03:10 PM
josh smith 1.3 spg 1.6bpg

Nobody ever gives this guy credit smh

Hawkeye15
05-09-2011, 03:12 PM
josh smith 1.3 spg 1.6bpg

Nobody ever gives this guy credit smh

well, his opponent counterproduction suggests that he isn't an elite defender. He gets blocks and steals from his athletic ability, but big PF's abuse him much of the time. He is for sure an above average defender capable of recovering from mistakes, but he is nowhere near Iggy, LeBron, Deng, Hill, Allen, Dwight, Garnett, and a few others up front.

crewfan13
05-09-2011, 03:13 PM
Andrew Bogut led the league in blocked shots per game, and 6th in rebounding. I would like to think he probably should have gotten more than 1 vote.

Avenged
05-09-2011, 03:15 PM
I'm not sure if I'm more surprised that Kobe is on the 1st team, or everyone here making it a big deal.

Who cares. We all know who deserves it and who doesn't. All defensive teams, All NBA teams, and even MVP's always has someone we will not agree with. Actually, I'm more surprised that some of you didn't see this coming.

HuRRiCaNeS324
05-09-2011, 03:16 PM
And not to be a homer, but Joel Anthony is by far the worst snub mainly because he got no votes. He is one of the few big men that excel at both PnR defense and help defense down low. He has probably the quickest feet of any big man in the league. He blocks shots with the best of them and hustles like a maniac (which is the reason Noah got voted in pretty much).

He is starting to get recognition though. Next year, more people will know of his greatness on defense.

Hawkeye15
05-09-2011, 03:19 PM
I'm not sure if I'm more surprised that Kobe is on the 1st team, or everyone here making it a big deal.

Who cares. We all know who deserves it and who doesn't. All defensive teams, All NBA teams, and even MVP's always has someone we will not agree with. Actually, I'm more surprised that some of you didn't see this coming.

eh, go back and read the threads man. Many of us, including me, gave the team they felt deserved it, and then the team they thought would get it, and Kobe was always on that list. It doesn't change the fact that its wrong to put him there. You could care less, I understand, but fans of teams that have a guy who is a defensive specialist who gets screwed here have a right to be angry. Its easy to say, "who cares" when your team features numerous award winners, championship trophies, etc. But to fans of a team like Philly, it IS a big deal that Iggy gets left off because of the reputation of Kobe, and the plain fact is that the voters are too lazy to do their job here.

Take me for instance. Did you really care who won MIP? Of course you didn't. I did. Some of us fans have to deal with how bad our teams are, and relish off the small wins we get.

Kobe Bryant is not a 1st team defensive talent, and I don't care what the votes say.

210Don
05-09-2011, 03:21 PM
timmy!

idrinkpepsi
05-09-2011, 03:22 PM
Reminds me of the MLB Gold Glove for the most part a popularity contest

Avenged
05-09-2011, 03:23 PM
eh, go back and read the threads man. Many of us, including me, gave the team they felt deserved it, and then the team they thought would get it, and Kobe was always on that list. It doesn't change the fact that its wrong to put him there. You could care less, I understand, but fans of teams that have a guy who is a defensive specialist who gets gipped here have a right to be angry. Its easy to say, "who cares" when your team features numerous award winners, championship trophies, etc. But to fans of a team like Philly, it IS a big deal that Iggy gets left off because of the reputation of Kobe, and the plain fact is that the voters are too lazy to do their job here.

Take me for instance. Did you really care who won MIP? Of course you didn't. I did. Some of us fans have to deal with how bad our teams are, and relish off the small wins we get.

Kobe Bryant is not a 1st team defensive talent, and I don't care what the votes say.

Yeah, but he's only in there off of reputation, not because he is a top defender that deserves 1st team. We all know that. We all know why he made it. But everyone in here seems surprised.

But I get you. I just never found an All NBA team to be anything that special. I mean, when discussing or arguing, no one hardly ever pops up with "Oh well, Kobe was 1st all defensive team" because it really doesn't matter. The facts show otherwise.

When you're talking about MVP, that award is more highly recognized and adds significantly to a legacy, so I would understand the anger on that regard.

shep33
05-09-2011, 03:25 PM
Chris Paul, Kobe, and Noah shouldn't be on there IMO. Lebron should be 2nd team, Wade 1st team

PlezPlayDKnicks
05-09-2011, 03:25 PM
Wade takes plays off and he's far from a clamp down defender... Don't get me wrong saying he doesn't play defense but Wade is an overrated defender. I actually think Wade should be a superior defender cuz he has the tools and the teammates to cover up most miscues.

SteveNash
05-09-2011, 03:26 PM
I love how these threads always have people crying about Kobe while bringing up other undeserving players like Wade.

Cano4prez
05-09-2011, 03:27 PM
Chris Paul, Kobe, and Noah shouldn't be on there IMO. Lebron should be 2nd team, Wade 1st team

LeBrons a better defender than Wade



I love how these threads always have people crying about Kobe while bringing up other undeserving players like Wade.

Wade's a better defender than Kobe

Lil Half Dead
05-09-2011, 03:28 PM
Noah made it? :laugh2: That's surprising, We'll take it though.

PlezPlayDKnicks
05-09-2011, 03:31 PM
And not to be a homer, but Joel Anthony is by far the worst snub mainly because he got no votes. He is one of the few big men that excel at both PnR defense and help defense down low. He has probably the quickest feet of any big man in the league. He blocks shots with the best of them and hustles like a maniac (which is the reason Noah got voted in pretty much).

He is starting to get recognition though. Next year, more people will know of his greatness on defense.

I think Joel is a good defender but it's hard to judge him on the Heat. They have 2 stars that are fast and are known to cheat on defense to strip big men. That combined with the fact that he's a fundamentally sound defender makes him look really good. Reggie Evans reminds me of Anthony minus the Shot blocking. Joel on an island would not clamp defenders like some would believe. With that said tho any team would like a JA on their team...

FinsSuperBowl
05-09-2011, 03:31 PM
well, his opponent counterproduction suggests that he isn't an elite defender. He gets blocks and steals from his athletic ability, but big PF's abuse him much of the time. He is for sure an above average defender capable of recovering from mistakes, but he is nowhere near Iggy, LeBron, Deng, Hill, Allen, Dwight, Garnett, and a few others up front.
he is a better defender than Deng and he is the next best defender from the SF position behind Lebron.

Every one that Smith Guards has an off game unless he is in foul trouble

Sportfan
05-09-2011, 03:33 PM
Where is Thabo and j-Smoove :cry:

Good to see 2 Celtics reppin 1st team!

rhino17
05-09-2011, 03:33 PM
LOL at Kobe and Lebron

Chuck Hayes not making it is another shame

Sadds The Gr8
05-09-2011, 03:34 PM
he is a better defender than Deng and he is the next best defender from the SF position behind Lebron.

Every one that Smith Guards has an off game unless he is in foul trouble

too bad he played PF in the regular season not SF...

rhino17
05-09-2011, 03:38 PM
too bad he played PF in the regular season not SF...

What does that matter for an all-defensive team?

Swashcuff
05-09-2011, 03:39 PM
At least the league stays consistently predictable in their bogus selections. Kobe on the first team ahead of Tony Allen and Andre Iguodala. What a shame. As for Noah making the second team I guess they thought they should at least give consideration to one player on the best defensive team in the league. Too bad they made the wrong choice.

PlezPlayDKnicks
05-09-2011, 03:39 PM
too bad he played PF in the regular season not SF...

He played both @ times.. Starts at power and shifts to small depending on match ups sometimes..

Ollie Tabooger
05-09-2011, 03:44 PM
as a team, the Bucks gave up the 3rd fewest ppg and had the 4th best defensive rating as a team. But yet, our entire team garnered a mere 3 votes :(

Swashcuff
05-09-2011, 03:48 PM
he is a better defender than Deng and he is the next best defender from the SF position behind Lebron.

Every one that Smith Guards has an off game unless he is in foul trouble

Do you have any evidence to back that statement?

redwhitenblue
05-09-2011, 03:50 PM
Do you have any evidence to back that statement?
No, because the stats don't back it up.

Smith gets a good number of blocks and steals, but those two things don't automatically make someone a good defender.

Sixerlover
05-09-2011, 03:51 PM
Kobe and LeBron instead of Allen and Iguodala. The league sure made sure that the correct players were placed on the first team. :laugh2:

VictimUK
05-09-2011, 03:53 PM
its just a popularity contest anyway, if it wasn't Tony Allen and Iguodala would of been in the first team

Swashcuff
05-09-2011, 03:56 PM
No, because the stats don't back it up.

Smith gets a good number of blocks and steals, but those two things don't automatically make someone a good defender.

Especially when for the most part his blocks and steals don't come against the player whom he is guarding.

Players who weren't great defenders have made the first team before but I don't think Smith was good enough in other aspects of the game to warrant a first team pick.

THE MTL
05-09-2011, 04:01 PM
Kobe Bryant seriously on the 1st team! Not surprised. Ppl still on his ****. Also, Derrick Rose received so many votes. WTF!

MiamiWadeCounty
05-09-2011, 04:02 PM
Lol, does anybody else think the second team is much better than the 1st team?

Lake_Show2416
05-09-2011, 04:05 PM
Wow, Kobe made 1st team and he had like 12 blocks on the year. He couldn't even defend his shadow last year.

really???? thats your argument :laugh2: ....im guessing you base most of your arguments on stats that you look up instead of game play cuz defense is rarely shown through stats

the haters r funny, u guys sound really sad that Kobe's 1st team, get over it :laugh:

SteveNash
05-09-2011, 04:07 PM
Wade's a better defender than Kobe

If he is, than it isn't by much. And if Kobe's selection is laughable then you really shouldn't be saying Wade deserves to be on the list.

Cubs Win
05-09-2011, 04:11 PM
Kobe Bryant seriously on the 1st team! Not surprised. Ppl still on his ****. Also, Derrick Rose received so many votes. WTF!

I'm not arguing for or against Rose here, but I'm just gonna say if you've seen his synergy numbers, they are pretty impressive. He was ranked ahead of CP3, D-Will, Rondo, and Westbrook in most categories at the PG position (the last time I saw them at least). I know ChiSox219 has access to synergy, if he's able to post them or you want to ask for them.

pebloemer
05-09-2011, 04:12 PM
Not surprising considering the coaches dont give a **** about these selections. Iggy should be before Kobe and WTF is Noah doing up there?

I'd guess reputation based on position he plays and the defensive success of Chicago this season.

Purple&Gold24
05-09-2011, 04:31 PM
Kobe shouldnt be up there he won because of his rep, but then again Kobe can be better defensively than wade and Iggy when he wants to be.

Raph12
05-09-2011, 04:36 PM
Not surprising considering the coaches dont give a **** about these selections. Iggy should be before Kobe and WTF is Noah doing up there?

Sounds about right...

dnewguy
05-09-2011, 04:43 PM
Kobe shouldnt be up there he won because of his rep, but then again Kobe can be better defensively than wade and Iggy when he wants to be.

6 years ago.

JordansBulls
05-09-2011, 04:49 PM
really???? thats your argument :laugh2: ....im guessing you base most of your arguments on stats that you look up instead of game play cuz defense is rarely shown through stats

the haters r funny, u guys sound really sad that Kobe's 1st team, get over it :laugh:

Wade who plays the same position had 7x more blocks on the season than Kobe had. I mean 12 blocks for a guy his size shows he isn't making much of an effort.

Durant is hype
05-09-2011, 04:50 PM
LUOL DENG has to be on the list!

DaBear
05-09-2011, 04:52 PM
Kudos to Noah. I didn't expect him to make it on 1st or 2nd.

However, Deng was the most deserving Bull.

nolin
05-09-2011, 04:55 PM
I'm disappointed Wade wasn't on 1st or 2nd team this year..

maybe cause his Defense sucks. you ever think of that? hes good for a blk and a steal and gettin beat on the 3 ball a couple times a game because his close out ability sucks.

this is a joke Kobe on 1st team? be real. Noah on 2nd team over Deng? thats a joke to

nolin
05-09-2011, 04:59 PM
I'm not arguing for or against Rose here, but I'm just gonna say if you've seen his synergy numbers, they are pretty impressive. He was ranked ahead of CP3, D-Will, Rondo, and Westbrook in most categories at the PG position (the last time I saw them at least). I know ChiSox219 has access to synergy, if he's able to post them or you want to ask for them.

rose will be on the 1st team in the near future. but until he stops being so ****in lazy on D he wont. Yeah if rose wanted to be the best defensive pg he could easily though with his athletic ability

nolin
05-09-2011, 05:02 PM
And not to be a homer, but Joel Anthony is by far the worst snub mainly because he got no votes. He is one of the few big men that excel at both PnR defense and help defense down low. He has probably the quickest feet of any big man in the league. He blocks shots with the best of them and hustles like a maniac (which is the reason Noah got voted in pretty much).

He is starting to get recognition though. Next year, more people will know of his greatness on defense.

only thing true about your post

Jewelz0376
05-09-2011, 05:03 PM
rose will be on the 1st team in the near future. but until he stops being so ****in lazy on D he wont. Yeah if rose wanted to be the best defensive pg he could easily though with his athletic ability

:rolleyes:

So lazy on D??...Yea I'd want you to find how many players could carry the load Rose does on offense...and lock down the toughest position in basketball every night...

Your a bulls fan I shouldn't have to tell you that maybe part of the reason he can't go 100% on D is because of everything he has to do on offense

nolin
05-09-2011, 05:08 PM
:rolleyes:

So lazy on D??...Yea I'd want you to find how many players could carry the load Rose does on offense...and lock down the toughest position in basketball every night...

Your a bulls fan I shouldn't have to tell you that maybe part of the reason he can't go 100% on D is because of everything he has to do on offense

eeehhhh dont give me that bull ****. i watched jordan go 100% on D his enitre career , and i think he carried a little load on offense to

Chronz
05-09-2011, 05:10 PM
LOL at Kobe and Lebron

Chuck Hayes not making it is another shame

Dude get off Brons back already, he carries the Heat defensively.


he is a better defender than Deng and he is the next best defender from the SF position behind Lebron.

Every one that Smith Guards has an off game unless he is in foul trouble
Ill look into that but smells like hyperbole to me



What does that matter for an all-defensive team?
Pay attention to the scope of his argument, the strength of Smiths selection is his ranking as a defender at the 3, sadly he didnt play that position much so its a moot point. What matters is how Smith did at the position he actually played (PF).



No, because the stats don't back it up.

Since when does asking for evidence imply that someone is looking for steal and block tallies? Why even assume hes asking for stats, it could be as simple as mentioning the players hes shut down or testimonials from coaches. Still assuming we were asking for stats, there are ALOT more stats out there that you could have referenced that would be much more enlighting, and while they dont tell the entire story they can shed light. Thats what I ask for when I ask for evidence.


Smith gets a good number of blocks and steals, but those two things don't automatically make someone a good defender.
Ahh yes good ol tired cliches. I dont know why people feel the need to point this out for every player who happens to amass decent STL+BLK tallies neglecting to mention the fact that its also inversely true, that they are not automatically misrepresented defensively. Its a moot point, for this I have a few rules to debating defense.

Rule #1: If the strength of your argument is that STL+BLK tallies are misrepresenting the player then you should rethink your stance.

THATS IT



I'd guess reputation based on position he plays and the defensive success of Chicago this season.
The same defense that did more than fine without him for much of the season? Granted Asik/KT are also strong defenders but this is suppose to be the best of the best. The best defenders are invaluable to their teams defensively or at the least stay on the court long enough to be attributed for the teams success.

I find myself wondering why he has this rep, hes not very strong 1 on 1, hes a good helper but so are alot of centers.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-09-2011, 05:10 PM
Wow, Kobe made 1st team and he had like 12 blocks on the year. He couldn't even defend his shadow last year.

blocks and steals are overrated

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-09-2011, 05:13 PM
Not that blocks are the all be all, but Wade had 87 blocks on the season and 111 steals to Kobe's 99 steals and 12 blocks.

How the hell do you average .1 bpg on a season for someone that height and get 1st team all defense?

again, what difference does it make how many blocks or steal do you average???

blocks and steals are only a little part about defense:eyebrow:

Hawkeye15
05-09-2011, 05:14 PM
Yeah, but he's only in there off of reputation, not because he is a top defender that deserves 1st team. We all know that. We all know why he made it. But everyone in here seems surprised.

But I get you. I just never found an All NBA team to be anything that special. I mean, when discussing or arguing, no one hardly ever pops up with "Oh well, Kobe was 1st all defensive team" because it really doesn't matter. The facts show otherwise.

When you're talking about MVP, that award is more highly recognized and adds significantly to a legacy, so I would understand the anger on that regard.

Oh, dude, I don't think anyone is "surprised", just disappointed that some of these awards are not taken more seriously. There are guys who deserve it more, period, and its annoying to see a player continually make it when they shouldn't, no matter what their name is.

Angry isn't the term for me. Disappointed. Look what Allen is doing to Durant right now, and what he did all year. Look at what Iggy did to his opponents. Its just disappointing.

ChiSox219
05-09-2011, 05:19 PM
really???? thats your argument :laugh2: ....im guessing you base most of your arguments on stats that you look up instead of game play cuz defense is rarely shown through stats

the haters r funny, u guys sound really sad that Kobe's 1st team, get over it :laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaG2Acg8n60


I'm not arguing for or against Rose here, but I'm just gonna say if you've seen his synergy numbers, they are pretty impressive. He was ranked ahead of CP3, D-Will, Rondo, and Westbrook in most categories at the PG position (the last time I saw them at least). I know ChiSox219 has access to synergy, if he's able to post them or you want to ask for them.

Rose finished 30th in the NBA allowing .78 Points Per Play (35.9% of plays he was scored on)
Kobe finished 212th allowing .89 PPP (38.7% of plays he was scored on)

I like to compare Rondo to Rose because both played the same position on team defenses that were elite (both had 100.3 Dratings tied for #1) and had great front line defenses.

Rose
Overall: .78 PPP
ISO: .65 PPP
P&R Handler: .79 PPP
Post Up: .54 PPP
Spot Up: .82 PPP
Off Screen: .78 PPP (IMO Rose's biggest improvement came from fighting through screens including P&Rs)
Hand Off: 1.08 PPP

Rondo
Overall: .79 PPP
ISO: .66 PPP
P&R Handler: .81 PPP
Post Up: .69 PPP
Spot Up: .85 PPP
Off Screen: .90 PPP
Hand Off: .67 PPP

ISO, P&R Ball Handler, and Spot up make up ~85% of Rose's plays and ~90% of Rondo's.


While also looking at Synergy might as well throw out this:

Rose (Offense)
Overall: .95 PPP,
44.8% score,
9% Shooting foul drawn
12.7% turnover

Rondo (Offense)
Overall: .76 PPP
39% score
4.7% shooting foul
23.1% turnover

Jaji
05-09-2011, 05:21 PM
This year I think Wade should have made it over Kobe.

Hawkeye15
05-09-2011, 05:22 PM
he is a better defender than Deng and he is the next best defender from the SF position behind Lebron.

Every one that Smith Guards has an off game unless he is in foul trouble

no, he is not.

Smith's counterproduction (opponent PER)- 16.0
LeBron- 10.9
Iggy- 9.8 (this is ridiculous)
Deng- 10.5

Getting blocks and steals is great, but Smith doesn't dominate defensively like the elite guys do.

Lake_Show2416
05-09-2011, 05:23 PM
This year i think wade should have made it.

Fixed :laugh2:

Hawkeye15
05-09-2011, 05:24 PM
Kobe shouldnt be up there he won because of his rep, but then again Kobe can be better defensively than wade and Iggy when he wants to be.

so?

smith&wesson
05-09-2011, 05:28 PM
its nice to see iggy getting recognized for his D

JordansBulls
05-09-2011, 05:33 PM
again, what difference does it make how many blocks or steal do you average???

blocks and steals are only a little part about defense:eyebrow:

And to get 12 blocks on a season for someone his size means you aren't putting forth much effort on the defensive end.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2011&year_max=2011&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=72&height_max=83&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=Y&is_hof=&pos=G&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=15.0&c2stat=ws&c2comp=gt&c2val=7.5&c3stat=per&c3comp=gt&c3val=15.0&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=blk

Jewelz0376
05-09-2011, 05:49 PM
eeehhhh dont give me that bull ****. i watched jordan go 100% on D his enitre career , and i think he carried a little load on offense to

I disagree with that, because Jordan def wasn't giving 100% all the time during his 2nd 3 peat...but for arguments sake even if that were true. because Rose doesn't do what Jordan did your criticizing Rose?

LayZbone
05-09-2011, 05:52 PM
lol, what a joke.

avrpatsfan
05-09-2011, 05:59 PM
I like KG and Rondo on the team, but not Kobe. Wade should easily make it in over Kobe.

nolin
05-09-2011, 06:12 PM
I disagree with that, because Jordan def wasn't giving 100% all the time during his 2nd 3 peat...but for arguments sake even if that were true. because Rose doesn't do what Jordan did your criticizing Rose?

his defense i am. i said he has the potential to be the best defensive pg in the game. but at times hes lazy , and his focus isnt there. theres no reason jeff teague should be averagin 16 points a game against him. i understand rose isnt always guarding him. but the majority of the time he is. and ive seen him get beat time after time. jeff teague is a decent player who hasnt had much time but come on. its all on rose being lazy and losin concentration.

daleja424
05-09-2011, 06:15 PM
Bigger joke than Kobe on the team is that Derrick rose got more vote than wade. LMAO

jets-24
05-09-2011, 06:18 PM
so ur saying wade is a better defender than d rose ...no

jets-24
05-09-2011, 06:19 PM
no luol deng and people are complaining about joakim noah on the second team wen he shuld have made 1st be serius

ChiSox219
05-09-2011, 06:20 PM
Bigger joke than Kobe on the team is that Derrick rose got more vote than wade. LMAO

I would have to disagree. Wade defends an inferior position and still gets beat more often than Rose.

Lakerhead4ever
05-09-2011, 06:33 PM
ppl are haters..

u can laugh all u want but it wont remove kobe name off the list.

and for the record he shouldnt have got it but ohh well lol

Gibby23
05-09-2011, 06:37 PM
Kobe!

the_jon
05-09-2011, 06:50 PM
No Bargniani?

eugene
05-09-2011, 06:57 PM
howard, deng, kg, iggy, rondo

Teeboy1487
05-09-2011, 06:57 PM
It's amazing how Lebron and Kobe ends up on the first team every year above more talented defenders. It's just insanity. Kobe was horrible defensively this season. No way he deserves to be on the 3rd team.

My list would be Rondo, Tony Allen, Iggy, Garnett, and Dwight.

Hawkeye15
05-09-2011, 06:58 PM
ppl are haters..

u can laugh all u want but it wont remove kobe name off the list.

and for the record he shouldnt have got it but ohh well lol

as I said pages ago, instead of calling people, "haters", make a case for Bryant being deserving for that team. Go for it. I would love to read it

JB0B0
05-09-2011, 06:59 PM
Luol Deng was very deserving imo, maybe more so than Joakim (although he was deserving as well).

MrfadeawayJB
05-09-2011, 07:00 PM
Glad to see Tony Allen get some credit. He didnt even start half the season!

RZZZA
05-09-2011, 07:01 PM
why all the hate for Noah in this thread? Deng is a better defender but Noah is still real good.

NYKalltheway
05-09-2011, 07:02 PM
NBA should start watching games closely and give awards such as this where it's due. Enough with the star creation - we get it, Kobe is the best player in the NBA, just let the guys play their game and recognize the less known players for crying out loud!

Hawkeye15
05-09-2011, 07:05 PM
NBA should start watching games closely and give awards such as this where it's due. Enough with the star creation - we get it, Kobe is the best player in the NBA, just let the guys play their game and recognize the less known players for crying out loud!

while I agree with the point of your post, Kobe hasn't been the best player for a few years now. He is still top 5-6, but no way is he the best in the NBA.

Hawkeye15
05-09-2011, 07:06 PM
why all the hate for Noah in this thread? Deng is a better defender but Noah is still real good.

The Bulls defense was just as good without him, and Noah's opponent counterproduction was better than only Scalabrine on the Bulls. He gets beat up 1 on 1. There is no way on earth he deserves to be on any of the defensive teams this season.

I do think Deng, and even Brewer to an extend, deserve some consideration and votes, but Noah does not

naps
05-09-2011, 07:07 PM
Kobe's on the first team? What a joke!

Wade's defense is miles and miles better than Kobe. He's probably the best shot blocking guard in nba history who is in his prime and he probably has the most total of block + steals out of any guard in the league; And he is a great team and man to man defender as well.

Mell413
05-09-2011, 07:11 PM
I would have liked to have seen Chuck Hayes make the team. Outside of ppl on this forum he doesn't get a lot of credit.

SP17
05-09-2011, 07:23 PM
LOL at this awards...Kobe suck at defense.

FriedTofuz
05-09-2011, 07:28 PM
Wow, Kobe made 1st team and he had like 12 blocks on the year. He couldn't even defend his shadow last year.

Blocks dont make you a good defender. Someoen can have 0.1 BPG and play very good permiter and man to man defense. Rose May block alot for his size, but that doesnt mean hes a good defender. It simply means, hes a shotblocker for his size.

Vince carter averaged more bpg his very 6 years in the nba than rose, but hes no where near a good defender

RZZZA
05-09-2011, 07:32 PM
The Bulls defense was just as good without him, and Noah's opponent counterproduction was better than only Scalabrine on the Bulls.

Wait, that makes no sense. You're telling me some stat indicates that Boozer and Korver are somehow better defenders than Noah?

that doesn't pass the ol' B.S. detector...

Hawkeye15
05-09-2011, 07:35 PM
Wait, that makes no sense. You're telling me some stat indicates that Boozer and Korver are somehow better defenders than Noah?

that doesn't pass the ol' B.S. detector...

http://www.82games.com/1011/1011CHI.HTM

I am saying statistically, Noah gave up an opponent PER of 18.2, which is not good at all. He doesn't belong anywhere near the all defensive teams, period. I understand his injury knocked his numbers down on that end this season, but that is beside the point. Noah was beaten up pretty good in one on one scenarios, and if the Bulls have ANY gripe on these teams, its that Deng didn't get the recognition he deserved. Noah isn't even the Bulls best frontcourt defender.

RZZZA
05-09-2011, 07:36 PM
ok, i just remain skeptical because stats can be misleading. If those stats indicate that Noah is a worse defender than Korver and Boozer, then those stats can't possibly be correct.

DR_1
05-09-2011, 07:37 PM
Deng should have replaced Kobe. That's my only complaint.

Rndy
05-09-2011, 07:45 PM
Why do people use PER? Stat sucks if you ask me. Noah didn't deserve it but if he was healthy he's a beast perimeter defender and rebounder.

Hawkeye15
05-09-2011, 07:53 PM
ok, i just remain skeptical because stats can be misleading. If those stats indicate that Noah is a worse defender than Korver and Boozer, then those stats can't possibly be correct.

Those stats don't say who the coach's use said player to guard, ie, Korver is probably never guarding the top perimeter player from the other team. Point is, Noah is not a top defender in the league, therefore deserves no consideration for all defensive teams. Deng does however. That is where your beef should be.

Hawkeye15
05-09-2011, 07:55 PM
Why do people use PER? Stat sucks if you ask me. Noah didn't deserve it but if he was healthy he's a beast perimeter defender and rebounder.

would you prefer PPP, or how his opponents shoot against him? And the point is, Noah wasn't healthy. Nobody cares about a perfect world where everyone is healthy, that isn't possible. Here you go, "IF healthy, Bynum is easily a better defender". See what I mean? If's don't mean squat

hotpotato1092
05-09-2011, 08:06 PM
Kobe and Bron over Iggy? Really?

dwadefan03
05-09-2011, 08:13 PM
where the hell is thabo sefolosha...that guy consistently does well on the opposing teams best player and he never gets any credit. He should at least be on the 2nd team

Hawkeye15
05-09-2011, 08:13 PM
Kobe and Bron over Iggy? Really?

eh, Bron has a place on the 1st team. But so does Iggy.

Rondo
Iggy
LeBron
KG
Dwight

I would be fine with this as the 1st team

Swashcuff
05-09-2011, 08:16 PM
eh, Bron has a place on the 1st team. But so does Iggy.

Rondo
Iggy
LeBron
KG
Dwight

I would be fine with this as the 1st team

So would the vast majority of knowledgeable NBA fans.

Lakers + Giants
05-09-2011, 10:01 PM
U guys are mad that kobe's on the list? It should have been

C Bynum
PF Gasol
SF Artest
SG Kobe
PG Fisher

Keep hatin.

Lakers + Giants
05-09-2011, 10:05 PM
It should just be best defenders in the league, they basically do it by position, pretty lame.

pebloemer
05-10-2011, 08:31 AM
The same defense that did more than fine without him for much of the season? Granted Asik/KT are also strong defenders but this is suppose to be the best of the best. The best defenders are invaluable to their teams defensively or at the least stay on the court long enough to be attributed for the teams success.

I find myself wondering why he has this rep, hes not very strong 1 on 1, hes a good helper but so are alot of centers.

I really don't think many of the voters but much thought into these votes most of the time. Looking through the votes, it seems that Chicago players got voted for due to the strength of the team defense, rather than the strength of individual defenders. Rose and Noah got more recognition than Deng, Brewer, Thomas, Gibson, Asik, etc just because they are bigger names. I don't agree with it, I'm just trying to make sense of it. Similar to MVP voting, team success plays a huge role I'd imagine.

And players like Bogut, (who's team didn't make the playoffs), won't get enough recognition.

SteBO
05-10-2011, 08:45 AM
I would have to disagree. Wade defends an inferior position and still gets beat more often than Rose.

Derrick Rose is getting beat constantly by Jeff Teague, while Wade hasn't allowed Ray Allen to even get a good amount of shots up let alone make them. Rose getting more votes than Wade is laughable at best.

SteBO
05-10-2011, 08:49 AM
eh, Bron has a place on the 1st team. But so does Iggy.

Rondo
Iggy
LeBron
KG
Dwight

I would be fine with this as the 1st team


So would the vast majority of knowledgeable NBA fans.

Co-sign. Iggy has to be up there without question.

jzero
05-10-2011, 09:58 AM
really???? thats your argument :laugh2: ....im guessing you base most of your arguments on stats that you look up instead of game play cuz defense is rarely shown through stats

the haters r funny, u guys sound really sad that Kobe's 1st team, get over it :laugh:

doesn't keep us up at night unlike your sweep by the mavs :rolleyes:

Mile High Champ
05-10-2011, 10:06 AM
well, the NBA continues to make a joke of the all defensive team. Way to stay consistent NBA!

haha very true indeed. I don't understand about 3 or 4 of the selections myself. Kobe on the first team makes no sense what so ever. A Popularity contest indeed.

Cool007
05-10-2011, 10:43 AM
Derrick Rose is getting beat constantly by Jeff Teague, while Wade hasn't allowed Ray Allen to even get a good amount of shots up let alone make them. Rose getting more votes than Wade is laughable at best.

really??? How low can you go?

We are comparing Jeff Teague (21 years old) to Ray Allen (35 years old)??? Ray Allen's game is basically 3pt shooting right now (even Keith Bogans does an awesome job vs Allen) while Jeff Teague game is penetration, speed, quickness etc.

Bulls whole defense is to stop Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford. Whenever Rose has guarded JJ and JC, he has doen pretty darn good job. Teague is taking advantage of Rose helping out (double/triple team) and Teague is doing a phenomenal job.

Also, a lot of the times Korver is guarding Teague when he is in the game coz Korver can't guard JJ or JC and Bulls care more about stopping JJ and JC than anyone else.

That is a very lame comparison TBH.


With that said, D-Wade should have made the list for sure. I am pretty confident that Rose will pretty soon be on the all-defense 2nd team atleast by next year. He has made great strides.

Cubs Win
05-10-2011, 11:15 AM
Derrick Rose is getting beat constantly by Jeff Teague, while Wade hasn't allowed Ray Allen to even get a good amount of shots up let alone make them. Rose getting more votes than Wade is laughable at best.

The majority of when he's getting beat by Teague is off screens. With a player as quick as Teague, there is no one man defense when he's flying around screens like that. And like Cool007 said, when Rose has been placed on JJ or Crawford he's done pretty well. Within a few years, Rose will be a legitimate selection for 1st or 2nd team defense if he continues to make strides like he did this season.

Cubs Win
05-10-2011, 11:17 AM
U guys are mad that kobe's on the list? It should have been

C Bynum
PF Gasol
SF Artest
SG Kobe
PG Fisher

Keep hatin.

But that lineup could never stop a good 3-point shooting team! :p

Double_R
05-10-2011, 12:18 PM
Dwight
KG
Iggy
Allen
Rondo

Lebron as alternate

To the peeps that wanted Wade: seriously, he took way to many plays off and wasn't really consistent.

koreancabbage
05-10-2011, 01:02 PM
I'll be the first to say that Bryant won this off reputation; he doesn't even belong on the second team, let alone the first team.

The Lakers got dominated by Dallas large in part because of perimeter defense, or lack there of. As soon as Fisher or Bryant got broken down with a pick and roll the Laker defense was exposed, and were late with rotations for four games in a row. That all starts with Kobe and Fish.

i believe voting ended before the playoffs start. you can't really say cuz of one bad series. Dallas couldn't miss from the outside!

John Walls Era
05-10-2011, 01:21 PM
Its so opinionated. No one does actual research (using film or advance stats). Thats not to say some guys didn't deserve it, but Kobe and KG on the first team? Ibaka, Wade and Iggy (who should've been 1st team) deserve some love.

PS: I actually like Kobe, but his defence is a bit overrated (thats not to say its bad, its actually really good) :hide:

8kobe24
05-10-2011, 02:01 PM
Kobe? Wow, that is very surprising. This is coming from a Lakers fan.

NYKalltheway
05-10-2011, 02:02 PM
while I agree with the point of your post, Kobe hasn't been the best player for a few years now. He is still top 5-6, but no way is he the best in the NBA.

We agree on total there as I don't see Kobe as the BEST player, but he's the most marketable player. Don't wanna rank players now, just didn't make it clear on my post.

NYKalltheway
05-10-2011, 02:07 PM
I'd be most satisfied with something like:

G- Rondo
G- Tony Allen
F- Iguodala
F- Garnett
C- Howard

2nd team:

G- Wade
G- Sefolosha
F- Lebron James
F- Deng
C- not sure here...

ChiSox219
05-10-2011, 02:07 PM
Derrick Rose is getting beat constantly by Jeff Teague, while Wade hasn't allowed Ray Allen to even get a good amount of shots up let alone make them. Rose getting more votes than Wade is laughable at best.

Well the award is for the regular season, so using a handful of playoff games to make your case doesn't make any sense.

As someone mentioned, Rose is getting screened constantly, to get Teague free but to also wear down Rose so he's less effective on offense.

Rose has been great defensively this year, ask Deron or CP3 or a dozen other top flight PGs.

Wade is a solid defender but like Kobe gets more credit than he deserves.

JordansBulls
05-10-2011, 02:27 PM
Blocks dont make you a good defender. Someoen can have 0.1 BPG and play very good permiter and man to man defense. Rose May block alot for his size, but that doesnt mean hes a good defender. It simply means, hes a shotblocker for his size.

Vince carter averaged more bpg his very 6 years in the nba than rose, but hes no where near a good defender

I didn't say he had to have a ton of blocks but 12 blocks on a 82 game season implies you weren't putting much effort in on the defensive end. No way should a guy his size in 82 games get less than 30 blocks on a season. The year before he only had 20 blocks which is less than .25 bpg.

SteveNash
05-10-2011, 04:06 PM
I didn't say he had to have a ton of blocks but 12 blocks on a 82 game season implies you weren't putting much effort in on the defensive end. No way should a guy his size in 82 games get less than 30 blocks on a season. The year before he only had 20 blocks which is less than .25 bpg.

Who do you think should have replaced Kobe?