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View Full Version : You say you want the physical basketball of the 80s and 90s....



AllBall
05-09-2011, 10:33 AM
but when you get it you start crying for fouls, flagrants, technicals, ejections and 20 game suspensions. :rolleyes:

So what do you want?

A more physical game?

Or are we going to continue crying about non-calls and physical play?

No blood no foul, right?

NBA fans don't know what they want, they are pathetic sometimes. :pity:

Edit: See Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2JG1AFFTnk

See how many techs, flagrants, and ejections you count that aren't called.

Rentzias
05-09-2011, 10:40 AM
Flagrants, technicals and ejections aren't the issue, it's the ticky-tack fouls that are being called. It was much more impressive to see Jordan get handchecked, grabbed and pushed and still score than to have someone sneeze on a Durant jumper and give an already skilled scorer an and 1.

Sly Guy
05-09-2011, 10:45 AM
Flagrants, technicals and ejections aren't the issue, it's the ticky-tack fouls that are being called. It was much more impressive to see Jordan get handchecked, grabbed and pushed and still score than to have someone sneeze on a Durant jumper and give an already skilled scorer an and 1.

yep. And the the more ticky-tack fouls called, the more subjective the rule interpretation becomes.

Tarheels23
05-09-2011, 10:52 AM
Noone wants to see players get hurt (in Rondo's case) or players blatantly throw elbows when their team is getting killed (in Bynum/Odom's case).

NBA fans, I think, just want to eliminate the tick tack fouls that are called everytime Durant/Wade/James etc get every time they touch the ball. As someone above mentioned, Jordan used to get checked and pushed all the time and still would drain jumpers in defender's faces. And on the other end, Jordan used to do the checking and pushing on defense.

D-Leethal
05-09-2011, 10:52 AM
There is a difference between a good hard clean playoff foul and a dirty unwarranted cheap shot that can cause serious injury in the midst of a blowout ....... but like others said, the tickytack fouls are the big problem here, not flagrants

Crackadalic
05-09-2011, 10:55 AM
You wave at someone its called a foul. Thats not the type of basketball I grew up with

Hangtime
05-09-2011, 11:01 AM
I think everyone here hates the tick tack and phantom fouls that get called nowadays and that's the main issue when comparing it to 80's and 90's. Rivalries back then were a lot more intense as well. Those type of fouls Bynum dished out were primarily used to set the tone or send a messege and were alot more relevant to the game or series itself. What Bynum did was completely unnecessary at that juncture of the game and it looked worse that he did it to much smaller player after he got wacked by Artest just a few games before.

Patman
05-09-2011, 11:08 AM
The problem fo me is more the inconsistency in many calls. If you look closly there are multiple fouls every damn possesion but most of the stuff does not get called. So if it gets called it is correct by the rulebook but because 90% of the time you get away with it it looks bad.

And physical play does not mean elbowing players in the air or throwing cheap shots.

Rentzias
05-09-2011, 11:10 AM
You wave at someone its called a foul. Thats not the type of basketball I grew up with

Also, you wave your finger at someone after blocking them, and it's a technical foul. I enjoyed the Mount Mutombo days.

jets-24
05-09-2011, 11:15 AM
i so hope this thread wasnt intended to that bs bynum play

AllBall
05-09-2011, 11:20 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2JG1AFFTnk

proves my point. Flagrant called in that video would be a flagrant 2 now. :pity: Jordan grabbed by the foot, nothing called. That would be a 1 game suspension now. MJ didn't even give a damn when he fell. MJ walking over to Ewing while on the floor and taunting, would have been a technical.

JIDsanity
05-09-2011, 11:26 AM
I dont know why its so hard to understand. There is a line you dont cross, and if you cant handle your emotions then maybe you shouldnt play the game.

Rentzias
05-09-2011, 11:29 AM
but when you get it you start crying for fouls, flagrants, technicals, ejections and 20 game suspensions. :rolleyes:

So what do you want?

A more physical game?

Or are we going to continue crying about non-calls and physical play?

No blood no foul, right?

NBA fans don't know what they want, they are pathetic sometimes. :pity:

Man, we've been crying about non-calls for years, that has NEVER stopped. Like Sly Guy said, it's the ticky-tack, which leads to subjective rule interpretation, which leads to crying about fouls and the level of flagrancy (word? :shrug: ).

Ticky-tack highlights superstar calls and sows the seed in the minds of fans re: conspiracies, and then people go nuts when THIS guy is technicaled and ejected, but THAT guy is not.

I'll venture that most fans aren't as confused and pathetic as you imply; when we say we want "physical play" it's implicitly saying "no ticky-tacks."

RVN671
05-09-2011, 11:33 AM
AMEN!!! Those fouls yesterday were kindergarten-like compared to the past 2 decades. These are the memorable fouls that come to mind when:

McHale tackle on Rambis = personal, no suspension
Bird punch to Laimbeer = personal, no suspension
Detroit front line undercutting Jordan = personal, no suspension





but when you get it you start crying for fouls, flagrants, technicals, ejections and 20 game suspensions. :rolleyes:

So what do you want?

A more physical game?

Or are we going to continue crying about non-calls and physical play?

No blood no foul, right?

NBA fans don't know what they want, they are pathetic sometimes. :pity:

Edit: See Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2JG1AFFTnk

See how many techs, flagrants, and ejections you count that aren't called.

JIDsanity
05-09-2011, 11:36 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2JG1AFFTnk

proves my point. Flagrant called in that video would be a flagrant 2 now. :pity: Jordan grabbed by the foot, nothing called. That would be a 1 game suspension now. MJ didn't even give a damn when he fell. MJ walking over to Ewing while on the floor and taunting, would have been a technical.

Rightfully so. Its a ***** move

tr3ymill3r
05-09-2011, 11:36 AM
It's not the game that's changed it's society that's changed. In the 80's when the Bad Boys would beat up on people it was alright because America was tough. However with the day of twitter and facebook and everyone *****ing and complaining about how tough their lives are we've forgotten our roots. We have gotten complacent and expect everything to be given to us. Not to mention it's all about the money these days, back in the 80's, much like hockey basketball had enforcers that if a guy started going off they'd put them on their back side in much worse ways than Bynum did to JJ. (See Rambis or Lambeer) With money being such a huge issue, if an enforcer were to go D Wade on someone like he tried with Rondo everyone would be up in arms and upset their star player is done. We enjoyed that physical play because those guys could take it and it was a sense of pride to get back up after being hit hard and asking to be hit harder the next time. The NBA has gotten soft because Stern and us as fans have let it get this way.

AllBall
05-09-2011, 11:44 AM
It's not the game that's changed it's society that's changed. In the 80's when the Bad Boys would beat up on people it was alright because America was tough. However with the day of twitter and facebook and everyone *****ing and complaining about how tough their lives are we've forgotten our roots. We have gotten complacent and expect everything to be given to us. Not to mention it's all about the money these days, back in the 80's, much like hockey basketball had enforcers that if a guy started going off they'd put them on their back side in much worse ways than Bynum did to JJ. (See Rambis or Lambeer) With money being such a huge issue, if an enforcer were to go D Wade on someone like he tried with Rondo everyone would be up in arms and upset their star player is done. We enjoyed that physical play because those guys could take it and it was a sense of pride to get back up after being hit hard and asking to be hit harder the next time. The NBA has gotten soft because Stern and us as fans have let it get this way.

A good point sir. The wussification (with a capital P) of America is shameful.

mikealike305
05-09-2011, 11:56 AM
the NBA has gotten "soft" cuz of the youth. the last thing stern wants or needs in kids learning from the NBA that when u get frustrated or angry during a basketball game u just throw a punch or act agressivly against the guy that is beating u.

midwestmadman
05-09-2011, 12:06 PM
I would just like to see one playoff game called equally is all. I can even complain that there have been times when Miami should have gotten a call and didn't (though that's pretty rare) but there are times when D. Rose gets a layup there isn't any contact but a whistle blows. You can't blame the players, it's the refs, they have been terrible at being balanced on both sides of the floor. I am sick of charging calls on flopping, and inadvertant whistles deciding the games and not the players. I would be all for the rough play of the 80's and 90's as long as it is called on both sides of the ball. If you ask me over the last few years the Lakers, this years Heat, C's and this years Bulls all have been allowed to play that way, but teams playing them aren't. I am a Bulls fan always have been, but I can admit that they are one of the teams getting benefits of calls. You see the difference at the FT in every stat box for those 4 teams. I was shocked to see the Lakers not getting the calls they have grown accustomed to getting in that Mavs series, I for one am happy they didn't and I wish the rest of the refs in the league would start calling the games right. My thoughts, if it is a hard foul call it, and don't give me the flagrant 1 or 2 crap, just call a foul and shoot two, if there is minimal contact and it's questionable don't blow the whistle, and on charges be consistant, I see so many charging calls where the defender is 1.) inside the half circle, or 2.) still moving his feet.

midwestmadman
05-09-2011, 12:12 PM
It's not the game that's changed it's society that's changed. In the 80's when the Bad Boys would beat up on people it was alright because America was tough. However with the day of twitter and facebook and everyone *****ing and complaining about how tough their lives are we've forgotten our roots. We have gotten complacent and expect everything to be given to us. Not to mention it's all about the money these days, back in the 80's, much like hockey basketball had enforcers that if a guy started going off they'd put them on their back side in much worse ways than Bynum did to JJ. (See Rambis or Lambeer) With money being such a huge issue, if an enforcer were to go D Wade on someone like he tried with Rondo everyone would be up in arms and upset their star player is done. We enjoyed that physical play because those guys could take it and it was a sense of pride to get back up after being hit hard and asking to be hit harder the next time. The NBA has gotten soft because Stern and us as fans have let it get this way.

Well said! :clap::clap::clap:

ddhulett
05-09-2011, 12:31 PM
We cry for the calls because if your going to call it one way then you got to call them all the same.

So if you're going to let up on calls then do it for everyone

Avenged
05-09-2011, 12:38 PM
A foul like Bynum's would probably be applauded by the team back in the day.. Again, I'm not sure, but by the sounds of it, it seems like it would since it was a lot more physical. That doesn't make it right though.

llemon
05-09-2011, 12:45 PM
It's not the game that's changed it's society that's changed. In the 80's when the Bad Boys would beat up on people it was alright because America was tough. However with the day of twitter and facebook and everyone *****ing and complaining about how tough their lives are we've forgotten our roots. We have gotten complacent and expect everything to be given to us. Not to mention it's all about the money these days, back in the 80's, much like hockey basketball had enforcers that if a guy started going off they'd put them on their back side in much worse ways than Bynum did to JJ. (See Rambis or Lambeer) With money being such a huge issue, if an enforcer were to go D Wade on someone like he tried with Rondo everyone would be up in arms and upset their star player is done. We enjoyed that physical play because those guys could take it and it was a sense of pride to get back up after being hit hard and asking to be hit harder the next time. The NBA has gotten soft because Stern and us as fans have let it get this way.

I think a lot of the more physical play was eliminated because players make so much money. Stern and the owners don't want their stars being injured by a Vets' Min player trying to impress his coach.

Hell, Jack Haley would have taken any player out.

Sly Guy
05-09-2011, 12:49 PM
I think a lot of the more physical play was eliminated because players make so much money. Stern and the owners don't want their stars being injured by a Vets' Min player trying to impress his coach.

Hell, Jack Haley would have taken any player out.

but that interpretation is still wrong, the officials are there to call the game based on the rules, not to call the game based on their player's level of compensation from the team's owner.

Baller1
05-09-2011, 12:50 PM
I was close to making a thread like this after game 2 of the OKC/MEM series. All I heard was *****ing that the Grizzlies were getting banged and hit down low the whole game, but isn't that what everyone always claims they want? More physicality.

I don't agree with plays like Bynum's last night, but I do agree that NBA fans in general are relatively hypocritical.

rapjuicer06
05-09-2011, 12:50 PM
i sick of hearing everyone say "wow so and so took over the game." when he ended the game with 20 some odd free throw attempts on 6 of 19 shooting. thats when you know its stupid as ****. you can't take anyone out of a game in this league (unless its a big man thats a shooter..aka tim duncan) but once you have someone driving to the hoop, there is no stopping them. you have to get out of the way and even if you do that, you'll get called for a foul. wade/rose/bron/dirk/durant..basically anyone who drives to the hoop will go to the line unless everyone moves out of the way then its an easy dunk..its just stupid and is the reason why no one will ever and i mean EVER be like Jordan.

Hawkeye15
05-09-2011, 12:51 PM
Of course I want the old rules back. But most here, are around 16-23 years old, and have become used to the new rules. Most of you young people would gasp 10 times a game if you sat and watched a 1991 Pistons game live. Its a pansy league now, period.

Rentzias
05-09-2011, 12:56 PM
Of course I want the old rules back. But most here, are around 16-23 years old, and have become used to the new rules. Most of you young people would gasp 10 times a game if you sat and watched a 1991 Pistons game live. Its a pansy league now, period.

I'd like to see the amount of threads that would erupt if PSD had existed during the Bad Boy era, as well as the rage on Twitter. Or even after the McHale on Rambis play.

Sly Guy
05-09-2011, 12:57 PM
I was close to making a thread like this after game 2 of the OKC/MEM series. All I heard was *****ing that the Grizzlies were getting banged and hit down low the whole game, but isn't that what everyone always claims they want? More physicality.

I don't agree with plays like Bynum's last night, but I do agree that NBA fans in general are relatively hypocritical.

I disagree with this too..I think that fans being hypocritical about calls fall within a combination of the following 2 criteria:

1. The fan is a fan of one of the teams on the floor, and has their impartiality towards the call clouded by their desired outcome

2. The precedent of giving out weak calls has already been set and seeing an inconsistency in that call causes the fan to become enraged at it.

People will always complain about the refs, it's a thankless job, but the ref provides a great deal of drama to the game [in any sport]. I just personally think the NBA could/should be doing a much better job at it.

Avenged
05-09-2011, 12:58 PM
Of course I want the old rules back. But most here, are around 16-23 years old, and have become used to the new rules. Most of you young people would gasp 10 times a game if you sat and watched a 1991 Pistons game live. Its a pansy league now, period.

So using the old rules, what would be your thoughts on the Bynum foul yesterday?

Lu's Dynasty
05-09-2011, 01:04 PM
but when you get it you start crying for fouls, flagrants, technicals, ejections and 20 game suspensions. :rolleyes:

So what do you want?

A more physical game?

Or are we going to continue crying about non-calls and physical play?

No blood no foul, right?

NBA fans don't know what they want, they are pathetic sometimes. :pity:

Edit: See Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2JG1AFFTnk

See how many techs, flagrants, and ejections you count that aren't called.

I'd love to see the physicality again of that era, but it isn't that era and the rules are very different/offensively favored for wing/guard play. I would rather have consistency in the officiating and less horrible blatant missed calls, but that is NBA officiating since I've been watching basketball.

AllBall
05-09-2011, 01:07 PM
I was close to making a thread like this after game 2 of the OKC/MEM series. All I heard was *****ing that the Grizzlies were getting banged and hit down low the whole game, but isn't that what everyone always claims they want? More physicality.

Good point. That was the best officiated game all season IMO. That game should be studied by all the refs. Hell, even the announcers where not whining like they usually do and where encouraging the physical play.

Muttman73
05-09-2011, 01:09 PM
Seems to me like the players were a whole lot tougher back then.

Baller1
05-09-2011, 01:13 PM
Good point. That was the best officiated game all season IMO. That game should be studied by all the refs. Hell, even the announcers where not whining like they usually do and where encouraging the physical play.

Yeah, well that's where the fandom of the league splits. Some might say that was a very well-officiated game (like you and I), while some probably that it was terrible. It just depends on the way you feel the game should be played. Hell, I complain about the refs frequently... But that's mostly due to the way we've been accustomed to feel.

I like the way the OKC/MEM series has been played, yet I've complained about the officiating in just about every game. I shouldn't, but it's instinctive.

Baller1
05-09-2011, 01:15 PM
So using the old rules, what would be your thoughts on the Bynum foul yesterday?

In my opinion, that was completely uncalled for and immature in any era. Bynum probably literally weighs twice as much as Barea at a point in the game where it was already over.

Embarrassing in my eyes, but of course that's just me.

MrfadeawayJB
05-09-2011, 01:18 PM
I hate it when the refs allow the players to play tough and physical in the post, but when they are in the perimiter called touch fouls. I love tough playoff fouls, but what Bynum did for example was just dirty, with no intent on going for the ball. But yeah i agree, the NBA has softened up a little overall

ddhulett
05-09-2011, 01:21 PM
Old rules were good for the Ticky Tack fouls that we get these days or flops.

But the foul Bynum put on Barea has no place in the game...I want to watch a basketball game not a bunch of Thugs!

Hawkeye15
05-09-2011, 01:22 PM
So using the old rules, what would be your thoughts on the Bynum foul yesterday?

2 fouls shots, move on. But we don't play that game anymore, so what happened was appropriate. Sorry, back in the 80's, little guards knew you come in the lane at your own risk. Guys like Charles Oakley wouldn't even have a job in the NBA today. And guys like Tony Parker would never have led the NBA in points in the paint in 1988.

mikealike305
05-09-2011, 01:25 PM
i dont think its players that have gotten soft i think its the league. yea, some fouls that are called today would be just good physical basketball. but it comes with a catch. less fouls also means more fights. the fouls that get called today are in order to stop players from feeling like "if the ref isnt going to make the call then ima handle it myself"

llemon
05-09-2011, 01:31 PM
but that interpretation is still wrong, the officials are there to call the game based on the rules, not to call the game based on their player's level of compensation from the team's owner.

Obviously, the refs are there to do as their bosses tell them.

whitemamba33
05-09-2011, 01:49 PM
Terrible thread. You make it sound like NBA fans are being hypocrites, but you don't know that the people who argue that the league should be more physical are the SAME people who complain when there is a lack of calls. There are millions of basketball fans..if you aren't expecting there to be a difference in opinion, then I'm calling a technical on you.

thawv
05-09-2011, 01:55 PM
but when you get it you start crying for fouls, flagrants, technicals, ejections and 20 game suspensions. :rolleyes:

So what do you want?

A more physical game?

Or are we going to continue crying about non-calls and physical play?

No blood no foul, right?

NBA fans don't know what they want, they are pathetic sometimes. :pity:

Edit: See Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2JG1AFFTnk

See how many techs, flagrants, and ejections you count that aren't called.

To answer your questions, at least from my point of view.

Yes. A physical game is way better to watch.
Ticky tac fouls are painful to watch and should be removed.
Non calls on fouls is another painful thing to watch.

Watching a guy intentionally try to harm/injure someone, is not tough physical basketball. It's goon ball, and there's no room for players like that in this league. Yes. Bynam should get at bare minimum of 20 games. You see, he wasn't playing basketball at the time he battered him. He was trying to hurt him. Just cuz he had a uniform on, doesn't make it a tough play. Guys like him don't belong in the league. Also, there are many players like him that would be behind bars if it wasn't for the NBA.

midwestmadman
05-09-2011, 02:41 PM
To answer your questions, at least from my point of view.

Yes. A physical game is way better to watch.
Ticky tac fouls are painful to watch and should be removed.
Non calls on fouls is another painful thing to watch.

Watching a guy intentionally try to harm/injure someone, is not tough physical basketball. It's goon ball, and there's no room for players like that in this league. Yes. Bynam should get at bare minimum of 20 games. You see, he wasn't playing basketball at the time he battered him. He was trying to hurt him. Just cuz he had a uniform on, doesn't make it a touch play. Guys like him don't belong in the league. Also, there are many players like him that would be behind bars if it wasn't for the NBA.

You had my attention throughout this post, however I think 20 games for what he did is excessive to say the least 5 without pay is probable, but wouldn't be shock if it is as many as 10. 20 however just seems to high. Then I bold faced the last line. I am wondering what exactly you mean with this statement? Are you saying that this hit / play was criminal and if it happened at a bar he woyuld be arrested, or are you saying that many players in the NBA would be criminals if they couldn't hit a jump shot, or even one more option did Bynum do something off the court recently that we don't know about? My guess is that you are saying is in line with my second selection, which is a pretty racially charged and unfair assumption if you ask me.