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View Full Version : Would a ring for Jason Kidd in 2011 impact his legacy more than Gary Payton in 2006?



JordansBulls
05-05-2011, 12:51 PM
Would a ring for Jason Kidd in 2011 impact his legacy more than a ring did for Gary Payton in 2006?

waveycrockett
05-05-2011, 12:58 PM
Yes. GP was a shell of himself and one of the worst starting PG's in the league. Kidd is still playing at a pretty high clip.

Baller1
05-05-2011, 12:58 PM
I think it would mean about the same. Very similar situations.

MFFL==FML
05-05-2011, 12:59 PM
Astronomically more. Payton, while almost playing as many minutes, didn't contribute nearly as much as Kidd has. Kidd would have earned his ring as opposed to Payton just being on the right team at the right time. Not to mention, the Refs gave the Heat their rings, it wasn't earned.

MFFL==FML
05-05-2011, 01:00 PM
I think it would mean about the same. Very similar situations.

Wow... DEFINITELY not... take Payton away and the Refs would still give the Heat the championship... take Kidd away and the Mavericks don't really even have a legitimate chance.

salmonleg
05-05-2011, 01:02 PM
I think it'll mean more for Kidd. Payton went the mercenary approach (jump on with a contender) to get his ring and didn't have a major impact (although he hit some clutch shots and contributed). Kidd's been with his team for years and is a focal point and major contributor.

Testaverde16
05-05-2011, 01:03 PM
it will mean more for Kidd, he is still playing at a good level, and hasnt been ring chasing like payton did.

MrfadeawayJB
05-05-2011, 01:04 PM
I think if the Mavs win a championship, the pressure will be off of them, and they will be favorites the next year too. Kidd can still play his style at a high level for 2-3 more years

ULT WARRIOR408
05-05-2011, 01:07 PM
1st of I wanna say I like the comparison between 2 Bay Area hoop legends.

I'd say Kidds ring would mean way more to him b/c if the Mavs do win it all this year Kidd would be the starting PG,Payton was a backup with a very minimal roll.Kidd has lost a step but he is still key in their success.

Jaji
05-05-2011, 01:08 PM
GP got a ring? :laugh2:

Kidd is a pivotal part of the Mavs. Payton was just along for the ride. No comparison.

Hangtime
05-05-2011, 01:08 PM
I think it'll mean more for Kidd. Payton went the mercenary approach (jump on with a contender) to get his ring and didn't have a major impact (although he hit some clutch shots and contributed). Kidd's been with his team for years and is a focal point and major contributor.

Yep. Payton went ring chasin. First Lakers then Heat following Shaq. Jason Kidd has been an important part of the Maverick organization for years now. So yeah, more impact for Kidd.

uchiha
05-05-2011, 01:14 PM
Yes. GP was a shell of himself and one of the worst starting PG's in the league. Kidd is still playing at a pretty high clip.

He didn't start for the Heat, which makes the answer pretty obvious... of course it would mean more to Kidd's career

P-O-Z
05-05-2011, 01:16 PM
Wow... DEFINITELY not... take Payton away and the Refs would still give the Heat the championship... take Kidd away and the Mavericks don't really even have a legitimate chance.

The refs didnt give up a 13 point lead in game 3
The foul in game 5 at the end was legit i have the pic to prove it
Not the refs fault dallas chokes so much

THE MTL
05-05-2011, 01:31 PM
Gary Payton became a ring chaser towards the end of his career and hopped on Miami and he was a SHELL of his former self.

Jason Kidd isnt a hop-on, he's been with the Mavs for some time now and he still is a main contributor to that Dallas team

MFFL==FML
05-05-2011, 01:34 PM
The refs didnt give up a 13 point lead in game 3
The foul in game 5 at the end was legit i have the pic to prove it
Not the refs fault dallas chokes so much

Um, I have video of many a phantom foul call when a player would breath on Wade. You have to live in denial to believe the Refs didn't give it to the Heat when the majority of basketball fans as well as announcers acknowledge the Mavericks were robbed that series. You would have a better argument trying to convince me the world is not spherical.

heyman321
05-05-2011, 01:47 PM
Um, I have video of many a phantom foul call when a player would breath on Wade. You have to live in denial to believe the Refs didn't give it to the Heat when the majority of basketball fans as well as announcers acknowledge the Mavericks were robbed that series. You would have a better argument trying to convince me the world is not spherical.

Yeah pretty much everyone outside of Miami believes the Mavs were robbed in 06.

Baller1
05-05-2011, 01:51 PM
:laugh2:

Of course the Mavs were robbed in '06, it had nothing to do with their infamous choke-jobs right?

MFFL==FML
05-05-2011, 02:02 PM
:laugh2:

Of course the Mavs were robbed in '06, it had nothing to do with their infamous choke-jobs right?

Well, I hope you would have replied to the comment where I articulated why Kidd getting a ring would be so much more than Payton getting his in 06' but I guess you can't ever admit when you are wrong... that is sad.

Anyways... um, even though I know you're being sarcastic, you are right... it has nothing to do with the Mavs choking... unless that is of course, Terry coughed on Wade and Wade was given foul shots...

Baller1
05-05-2011, 02:04 PM
Well, I hope you would have replied to the comment where I articulated why Kidd getting a ring would be so much more than Payton getting his in 06' but I guess you can't ever admit when you are wrong... that is sad.

Anyways... um, even though I know you're being sarcastic, you are right... it has nothing to do with the Mavs choking... unless that is of course, Terry coughed on Wade and Wade was given foul shots...

Dirk doesn't get fouls called on him the way other starts do because a majority of his shots are fadeaways to the point where he's virtually horizontal by the time his shot is released.

brad33240
05-05-2011, 02:06 PM
Payton was a backup on his last legs. Kidd is QBing the Mavs. Big difference.

I say yes.

king4day
05-05-2011, 02:09 PM
Kidd is a leader on this team and without him, they don't hold a candle to the rest of the elites. Payton was a big part of the team, but not that big.

MFFL==FML
05-05-2011, 02:10 PM
Dirk doesn't get fouls called on him the way other starts do because a majority of his shots are fadeaways to the point where he's virtually horizontal by the time his shot is released.

Huh? This has nothing to do with anything we have been talking about. Have I complained that Dirk doesn't get the same phantom calls Wade gets/has gotten? No... :facepalm:

Baller1
05-05-2011, 02:15 PM
Huh? This has nothing to do with anything we have been talking about. Have I complained that Dirk doesn't get the same phantom calls Wade gets/has gotten? No... :facepalm:

Quit *****ing about calls then. Wade gets them because of the way he plays. Simple point to comprehend, I'm sure you can do it if you really try.

benzni
05-05-2011, 02:31 PM
As a Nets fan, I hope If not for the Thunder, then the Mavs can win and give the ring to Kidd.

Lil Half Dead
05-05-2011, 02:41 PM
Is this a legitimate question? Jason Kidd has been a Mav for a few years now, The Glove was a ring chaser and far less effective than Kidd at that point in his career. Kidd's the starting PG for Dallas, If they didn't have him, Dallas doesn't stand a damn chance.

Big Zo
05-05-2011, 02:46 PM
Kidd was always the better player ring or no ring.

heyman321
05-05-2011, 03:05 PM
Quit *****ing about calls then. Wade gets them because of the way he plays. Simple point to comprehend, I'm sure you can do it if you really try.

That's not his point. So "slashing" justifies getting phantom calls? Forget Dirk, why doesn't ANYONE else get phantom calls? Yeah, because those refs were dirty in that series, it's pretty clear. I'm not a Mavs fan, I'm a basketball fan. If by "choking" you mean Wade got free throws for no reason, then yes the Mavs "choked". There are vids all over youtube, one of them Wade elbowing Dirk and Dirk got called for the foul! Lol! It's not Wade's fault really, it's the referees. That's why the game is so ticky tacky nowadays.

rabzouz 96
05-05-2011, 03:11 PM
doesnt make any difference at all, i see kidd as the same player as i saw him until now, 'ship this season or not and i see gp as the same player with or without his miami 'ship.

Bruno
05-05-2011, 04:42 PM
I'd say yes. Kidd is still playing at a very high level.

SteveNash
05-05-2011, 04:51 PM
It will have a much higher impact on JJ Barea's legacy.

And why are people bashing GP for joining the Lakers/Heat. He honored his contract with the Sonics, then signed with the Lakers. When he got traded to a crappy Celtics team he continued to play for them even after he was traded again. He was again a free agent and signed with the Heat.

Much better than Jason Kidd, who got kicked off 3 teams because of his bad attitude.

JasonJohnHorn
05-05-2011, 06:04 PM
I voted for the first option because I believe that right now, Kidd means more to the Mavs that Payton did to the Heat at the time. That said I think even without a ring, Kidd has had a better career. Payton was always a better scorer and that is not even a debate, but Kidd just makes so many cluthc plays down the stretch and can single handedly will a team to win. I remember in LBJ's second year, the Cavs were headed into the eighth seed, and the Nets had to win a rediculous amound of games and had been playing below .500 all year, and Kidd just poured his heart into every minutes, and pull Cater up off his lazy-already-lookin-forward-to-the-offseason-@$$, put a fire under Jefferson's @$$ and robbed LBJ of his first playoff appearance. And when you watch him down the stretch of a game, he just makes so many plays, deflections, hussling down loose balls, rebounds. I mean, he's never the type of guy that hits a big shot, not very often at least, but he just makes those momentum changing plays. Cutting off passing lanes, forcing the opposing team to waste the 24 second shot clock, all kinds of little things. I've seen him close out playoff games agaisnt the Raptors while a young Chris Bosh was just lookin around wondering what was happening, and make hussle plays like he did at the end of game one with deflections, and last season where he drew a foul of the opposing teams coach by making contact with him when he was too close to the court. And not to mention, he pulled a Nets team that had no depth into back-to-back NBA finals and three-straight conference finals if I remember correctly. Payton pulled the Sonics to one finals appearance, but he had a far better team (of course, the east was pretty weak at the time Kidd got there).

Anywho... I actually hate Kidd as a person, not a big fan of wife beaters, but that is off the court $#!T, on the court there are few PGs I would rather have had in their prime.

what54!?
05-05-2011, 06:06 PM
yea I would say so. GP was the back-up Pg on that team. Kidd is the starter

hgtiger32
05-05-2011, 06:19 PM
i was gonna come in here and go crazy and say that the Lakers didn't win a championship when he was with them, then I started thinking...oooooohhh yeah the Heat

theheatles
05-05-2011, 08:09 PM
wayy more for kidd, kidd starts...payton came off the bench

ragee
05-05-2011, 08:40 PM
Kidd's ring would have more impact if the Mavs do win it this year... He is not as good as he was but he is still doing a lot of things for our team...

Raph12
05-06-2011, 12:49 AM
Option 3 is confusing lol; twilight means post-prime, so if neither were "past the twilight" of their careers, that could mean they were either both in and/or before the twilight of their careers... What it should say; "Equal because both players were in the twilight of their careers"

To answer the question, Kidd's would be easily more significant to his legacy because he has a much larger role than GP had on the Heat.

Havoc Wreaker
05-06-2011, 09:26 AM
To this day I can't believe that foul call on Wade. That's why I don't care much for the NBA nowadays

That said: J Kidd :love:

mania03
05-06-2011, 10:18 AM
I think it would mean about the same. Very similar situations.

This isn't related but had to comment on this view ...

lmao ..westbrook aint better than D Rose . can't believe someone would think that LOL . By far D rose is better and he has yet to reach his potential. Westbrooks IQ is at par and he has a lot to prove still. Sorry bud.

thekmp211
05-06-2011, 11:57 AM
it would mean more for kidd, although i get the point being raised here. when we look at their careers in retrospect, we will see their stats and the (if the mavs win of course) titles lumped together. people might mistake their legacy as elite players on championship teams when in reality they won as complementary pieces.

that said, kidd is the starter for the team and one of the main leaders in the locker room. without his ability to guard bigger players, the mavs back court would get eaten alive, and he obviously still runs an offense very, very well. additionally, he has transformed himself into an effective spot-up three point shooter so he can still put pressure on a defense despite rarely penetrating.

payton had one big game in the playoffs for the heat, but he was done and done that season. cant really say his contributions were essential to their championship. i guess, though, the same could be said for every player on that roster not named dwyane wade. If the mavericks end up winning a title this year, it almost certainly won't have come without the efforts of jason kidd.