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View Full Version : Jamal Crawford most clutch non superstar



BklynKnicks3
04-27-2011, 01:14 PM
Hands down!

asandhu23
04-27-2011, 01:17 PM
Monta Ellis. He was very clutch this year.

Lake_Show2416
04-27-2011, 01:17 PM
Fisher is laughing at you... cold blooded when it's playoff time

Baller1
04-27-2011, 01:18 PM
1. Korver
2. Jameer
3. Crawford

I'd be fine with any of them taking a shot for me at the end of a game.

asandhu23
04-27-2011, 01:20 PM
Fisher is laughing at you... cold blooded when it's playoff time

oh right. that flopping guy.

sixer04fan
04-27-2011, 01:25 PM
Andre Iguodala - least clutch non-superstar

asandhu23
04-27-2011, 01:31 PM
Andre Iguodala - least clutch non-superstar

no. this belongs to Vladimir Radmanovich despite his clutch game winner this year. I don't think I have ever seen a player make more mistakes in the 4th quarter than him.

Squad13
04-27-2011, 01:31 PM
Fisher has hit way more big shots, Crawford is great when he's attempting to beat the warriors in the regular season. Fisher is all time clutch when it comes to legit big shots. Respect a legend. Nice thread title :laugh:

iggypop123
04-27-2011, 01:35 PM
fisher, horry?

Chi StateOfMind
04-27-2011, 01:55 PM
Robert Horry is first to come mind.

Klivlend
04-27-2011, 01:59 PM
Fisher has hit way more big shots, Crawford is great when he's attempting to beat the warriors in the regular season. Fisher is all time clutch when it comes to legit big shots. Respect a legend. Nice thread title :laugh:

Hey now, take it easy. Fisher has been a solid contributor over the years, but I would never refer to him as a legend in any sense of the word.

Muttman73
04-27-2011, 02:09 PM
none?

thekmp211
04-27-2011, 02:24 PM
dude is so talented, he probably should have been a superstar. definitely has no fear, but it hurts his team sometimes too.

Kashmir13579
04-27-2011, 02:30 PM
draft this guy to the Lakers and he'd have a Kobe Bryant-esque career. top NBA talent and very underrated, imo.

i'm not trying to muddy the waters... but what exactly can Kobe Bryant do, that Jamal Crawford can't??

mustaine
04-27-2011, 02:33 PM
Robert Horry is first to come mind.

Now that guy was a winner. He could do no wrong in the clutch.

theheatles
04-27-2011, 02:45 PM
i remember a few years ago crawford was named by the players as the best player in the league to never make an all star team, but that distinction goes to lamarcus aldridge now

yeah horry was clutch but crawford is up there amongst current players

ttam68
04-27-2011, 02:53 PM
Yeah, thats why it took him 10 years to make the playoffs.


draft this guy to the Lakers and he'd have a Kobe Bryant-esque career. top NBA talent and very underrated, imo.

i'm not trying to muddy the waters... but what exactly can Kobe Bryant do, that Jamal Crawford can't??

Kobe is better at literally everything other than 4 point plays and banked threes.

MrfadeawayJB
04-27-2011, 02:58 PM
Yeah i got to go fish on this one. Most clutch average player ever. Just looking at him, i wouldnt even choose him for my pickup team

Geargo Wallace
04-27-2011, 03:08 PM
Why do Lakers fans always have to bring a Lakers player into every discussion? Fisher blah blah blah

BklynKnicks3
04-27-2011, 03:08 PM
Fisher is laughing at you... cold blooded when it's playoff time

fisher is a scrub. he is clutch I dont count guys who cant create their own shot

knickfan4life
04-27-2011, 03:17 PM
Why do Lakers fans always have to bring a Lakers player into every discussion? Fisher blah blah blah

lol perhaps because they honestly have had 2 completely different dynasties in the last decade and have bragging rights for a while lol and also cause they are sometimes right...

this time, i have to go with crawford tho... for the simple fact that fisher is never used as the decoy, he is actually the one left open or the last one they worry about because he has shaq, kobe, gasol, etc on his team

with crawford, he dribbles the ball and takes the shot and makes it VERY often lol

Kashmir13579
04-27-2011, 03:57 PM
Yeah, thats why it took him 10 years to make the playoffs.



Kobe is better at literally everything other than 4 point plays and banked threes.

Crawford has been on horrible teams for most of his career.

and i straight up disagree with the second part.



Just look at their 2009-10 stats.


Now, this was the first year that Crawford was actually on a good team. (period)

its arguable that Crawford had a better year than Bryant. actually, unless you want to reward Kobe for jacking up 7.5 more shot attempts per game and excessively dominating the ball, Crawford has a pretty strong case.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=crawfja01&y1=2011&p2=bryanko01&y2=2011

Even if you disagree that Crawford had a better season (statistically), My previous question still stands. What exactly can Kobe Bryant do, that Jamal Crawford can't?

last years stats should at least be enough to show you that this,

Kobe is better at literally everything other than 4 point plays and banked threes. isn't true at all.

showtym24
04-27-2011, 04:19 PM
Crawford has been on horrible teams for most of his career.

and i straight up disagree with the second part.



Just look at their 2009-10 stats.


Now, this is was the first year that Crawford was actually on a good team. (period)

its arguable that Crawford had a better year than Bryant. actually, unless you want to reward Kobe for jacking up 7.5 more shot attempts per game and excessively dominating the ball, Crawford has a pretty strong case.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=crawfja01&y1=2011&p2=bryanko01&y2=2011

Even if you disagree that Crawford had a better season (statistically), My previous question still stands. What exactly can Kobe Bryant do, that Jamal Crawford can't?

last years stats should at least be enough to show you that this,
isn't true at all.

LMAO. I feel bad for you.

Kashmir13579
04-27-2011, 04:29 PM
LMAO. I feel bad for you.

don't. :)

hugepatsfan
04-27-2011, 04:29 PM
Kobe and Jamal ****ing Crawford. A HOFer, top 10 player of all time and a top notch 6th man. Is that really the debate we're gonna have here? Only on PSD...

Kashmir13579
04-27-2011, 04:37 PM
Kobe and Jamal ****ing Crawford. A HOFer, top 10 player of all time and a top notch 6th man. Is that really the debate we're gonna have here? Only on PSD...

thats why context is so important in player comparisons. its not like i'd actually expect more than say - a few posters to actually see what i'm getting at. also, its not like i said that Crawford is a better player. i'm simply pointing out that their skillsets and production are really not that far off if you peel back the layers. Kobe Bryant has his legacy (and his roster support) and that will forever be untouchable to the likes of Crawford.

Chicharito
04-27-2011, 06:09 PM
Fisher no doubt, Fish is ice cold at big games.


draft this guy to the Lakers and he'd have a Kobe Bryant-esque career. top NBA talent and very underrated, imo.

i'm not trying to muddy the waters... but what exactly can Kobe Bryant do, that Jamal Crawford can't??

Are you serious?

Sportfan
04-27-2011, 06:17 PM
Monta Ellis. He was very clutch this year.
lol gudone

lila1443
04-27-2011, 06:17 PM
;) you cant be clutch with no chips in the league.....come on man... The word comes from #44 jerry west.....count the rings...duh

DerekRE_3
04-27-2011, 06:36 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2b2Yh7mcZw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icc-fmh43AA&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3TjJXfoqLw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3JjIqEqPcg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuEt73HAK8U

ttam68
04-27-2011, 06:40 PM
Just look at their 2009-10 stats.

Now, this was the first year that Crawford was actually on a good team. (period)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=crawfja01&y1=2011&p2=bryanko01&y2=2011

Even if you disagree that Crawford had a better season (statistically), My previous question still stands. What exactly can Kobe Bryant do, that Jamal Crawford can't?

last years stats should at least be enough to show you that this,
isn't true at all.

If you're going to link to BBR, you should probably make sure this doesn't happen:


Ortg Drtg WS/48
Kobe Bryant 112 105 0.187
Jamal Crawford 106 111 0.074


Kobe produces twice what Crawford does, in your own link. Since you mention this season:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=bryanko01&y1=2011&p2=crawfja01&y2=2011



Ortg Drtg WS/48
Kobe Bryant 111 105 0.179
Jamal Crawford 105 111 0.071


Its not any better this year.


thats why context is so important in player comparisons. its not like i'd actually expect more than say - a few posters to actually see what i'm getting at. also, its not like i said that Crawford is a better player. i'm simply pointing out that their skillsets and production are really not that far off if you peel back the layers. Kobe Bryant has his legacy (and his roster support) and that will forever be untouchable to the likes of Crawford.

They don't produce at nearly the same level.

TrueFan420
04-27-2011, 06:54 PM
thats why context is so important in player comparisons. its not like i'd actually expect more than say - a few posters to actually see what i'm getting at. also, its not like i said that Crawford is a better player. i'm simply pointing out that their skillsets and production are really not that far off if you peel back the layers. Kobe Bryant has his legacy (and his roster support) and that will forever be untouchable to the likes of Crawford.

3 things come to mind. one is work ethic... kobe wouldnt be as great if he had not ened up on the lakers but i still think he would have been a great player. two is defense... Crawford does not play good d, enough said. last is post game... even though kobes post game is newish he is better equipped to work the post game as a sg than crawford.

Klivlend
04-27-2011, 07:39 PM
;) you cant be clutch with no chips in the league.....come on man... The word comes from #44 jerry west.....count the rings...duh

Welcome to PSD....but you're an idiot. Rings are a function of team, not an individual.

llemon
04-27-2011, 07:42 PM
Hey now, take it easy. Fisher has been a solid contributor over the years, but I would never refer to him as a legend in any sense of the word.

Starting PG on 5 Title teams. Some very good defense and some very big shots that helped win a few of those Titles. That's somewhat legendary.

lakers4sho
04-27-2011, 07:52 PM
Kobe and Jamal Crawford...PSD has officially hit a new all-time low :laugh:

DirtyThirty
04-27-2011, 07:55 PM
Kyle Korver. He has the stats to prove it.

Lakerhead4ever
04-27-2011, 07:56 PM
draft this guy to the Lakers and he'd have a Kobe Bryant-esque career. top NBA talent and very underrated, imo.

i'm not trying to muddy the waters... but what exactly can Kobe Bryant do, that Jamal Crawford can't??

LOl are u serious??

are u really saying he can do everything kobe can do crawford can do?

I just figured it out, ppl hate the hell outta kobe wow

Lakerhead4ever
04-27-2011, 08:00 PM
Anyways, Fisher is more clutch than sum of the superstars.

Check his track record

Trace
04-27-2011, 08:16 PM
If Jamal Crawford was actually coached properly instead of bouncing from team to team then he might have been much more than a fringe all-star/6th man.

How many coaches did this kid have?

Floyd, Cartwright, Wilkens, Brown, Thomas, D'Antoni, Nelson, Woodson and Drew.

9 coaching changes in 12 years. Damn.

LTBaByyy
04-27-2011, 08:19 PM
Terry??? Check the stats in the 4th quarter

Storch
04-27-2011, 08:23 PM
Fisher and Horry says HI!!!!

What?
04-27-2011, 08:54 PM
draft this guy to the Lakers and he'd have a Kobe Bryant-esque career. top NBA talent and very underrated, imo.

i'm not trying to muddy the waters... but what exactly can Kobe Bryant do, that Jamal Crawford can't??

Crawford isn't even half the defender a prime Kobe was nor was he near as good of a passer and wasn't as good at getting to the hoop


Crawford has been on horrible teams for most of his career.

and i straight up disagree with the second part.



Just look at their 2009-10 stats.


Now, this was the first year that Crawford was actually on a good team. (period)

its arguable that Crawford had a better year than Bryant. actually, unless you want to reward Kobe for jacking up 7.5 more shot attempts per game and excessively dominating the ball, Crawford has a pretty strong case.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=crawfja01&y1=2011&p2=bryanko01&y2=2011

Even if you disagree that Crawford had a better season (statistically), My previous question still stands. What exactly can Kobe Bryant do, that Jamal Crawford can't?

last years stats should at least be enough to show you that this,
isn't true at all.

Why use last years stats and not this year?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=crawfja01&y1=2011&p2=bryanko01&y2=2011

Kobe is better at nearly every single stat and it isn't that close.

The one thing I can agree with is that the way we view both those players historically would be very different. Crawford would be a hof and potentially a top 50 player of all time, Kobe would probably be considered around Tmac historically (this is assuming Kobe plays with the same amount of talent Crawford did).

BklynKnicks3
04-28-2011, 10:24 AM
Iam probably the biggest jamal crawford fan there is but i wont be crazy enough to compare him to kobe or wade. But at the Sg postion who else is more talnted then Jamal. Joe johnson thinks he is and he tries so hard to force the issue. Now on to fisher that is a disgrace that bulldog face should not be in this talk 'when i say none star' I mean legit players notch below all stars not guys who get left open because they play with superstars like korver,fisher,horry are people that blind. SMH

Kashmir13579
04-28-2011, 12:37 PM
They don't produce at nearly the same level.

Not quite sure how i effed up that link. :hide: it was supposed to be last years stats - not career averages. My point being that Crawford's first year on a good team, he almost met Bryant's PER and WS/48 on almost half the shots and considerably lower USG%, beat him out in TS%, eFG%, and ORtg. either way, i can see where this is going. :laugh2:

like i said, Kobe has his legacy and his roster support. Crawford will never have either of those and thats why the comparison is taboo. If Kobe played on the teams that Crawford has been on this would be a much different conversation in my opinion.


THIS, is the link i intended.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=crawfja01&y1=2010&p2=bryanko01&y2=2010

BTW, no disrespect to Laker fans or Kobe (he really is a great player), but the fact that he's regarded as a top 10 of all time and put in the same breath as Michael Jordan makes him probably the most overrated player in the history of the NBA. i'm not afraid to say that.

Kashmir13579
04-28-2011, 12:41 PM
.

The one thing I can agree with is that the way we view both those players historically would be very different. Crawford would be a hof and potentially a top 50 player of all time, Kobe would probably be considered around Tmac historically (this is assuming Kobe plays with the same amount of talent Crawford did).

you mean if the tables were turned, right?

Double_R
04-28-2011, 12:49 PM
J. Nelson, Hedo Turk, and DFish.

Kashmir13579
04-28-2011, 01:03 PM
and BTW, i'd like to revisit this topic after the playoffs are over. Crawford is putting up INSANE numbers and a lot of people think they might give the Bulls a run for their money.

going back to my previous point of "context", this is only Crawford's 2nd year in the playoffs. he's been on HORRIBLE teams his entire career.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
04-28-2011, 01:37 PM
draft this guy to the Lakers and he'd have a Kobe Bryant-esque career. top NBA talent and very underrated, imo.

i'm not trying to muddy the waters... but what exactly can Kobe Bryant do, that Jamal Crawford can't??

is this a joke?

Kashmir13579
04-28-2011, 01:39 PM
is this a joke?

nawwwww.

nope.

Kashmir13579
04-28-2011, 01:44 PM
Lakers fans hate me now. i might've seen that coming.

Just goes to show you that you should NEVER, EVER, EVER post anything negative about a star player on a big market team.

In all fairness i have made Crawford comparisons to 'Melo and got bashed by Knicks fans as well.

not that its my intention but i'm not afraid to be "the fall guy". its quite alright with me especially if i firmly believe what i post. if i'm wrong, i'm wrong. thats all there is to it.

trying to explain my logic (or others would say lack-there-of) to Laker fans is an uphill climb that is really not worth it to me.

Squad13
04-28-2011, 02:01 PM
Hey now, take it easy. Fisher has been a solid contributor over the years, but I would never refer to him as a legend in any sense of the word.

A Laker legend. bruh

Squad13
04-28-2011, 02:02 PM
Why do Lakers fans always have to bring a Lakers player into every discussion? Fisher blah blah blah

Really? Its a question about the most clutch non superstar. If you think Fisher isn't in that discussion, you're a fool.

Squad13
04-28-2011, 02:03 PM
Kashmir said he'd have a Kobe Bryant type career? :laugh: that's one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Thank you! Kobe Bryant is 3x the talent.

DoJoTheSlasher
04-28-2011, 02:06 PM
draft this guy to the Lakers and he'd have a Kobe Bryant-esque career. top NBA talent and very underrated, imo.

i'm not trying to muddy the waters... but what exactly can Kobe Bryant do, that Jamal Crawford can't??

Score 30,000 points, win 3 Finals MVP's, win 5+ championships, go to 10+ all star games, get 10+ All NBA Teams and most of them being 1st teams, win an MVP. Yeah there's alot of things Kobe can do than Crawford can't.

Kashmir13579
04-28-2011, 02:13 PM
Score 30,000 points, win 3 Finals MVP's, win 5+ championships, go to 10+ all star games, get 10+ All NBA Teams and most of them being 1st teams, win an MVP. Yeah there's alot of things Kobe can do than Crawford can't.

again, context is sooo important. well - to some it is. its not that Crawford "can't" do those things its he's never been in a position to do it. he hasn't had his career and legacy gift-wrapped from day one. he was dealt a 7-2 off-suit in comparison to Kobe's pocket aces.

If you want to believe that Crawford couldn't have been incredibly successful playing with a prime Shaq you are absolutely allowed to feel that way. i would have to disagree.

Kashmir13579
04-28-2011, 02:18 PM
Kashmir said he'd have a Kobe Bryant type career? :laugh: that's one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Thank you! Kobe Bryant is 3x the talent.

naww, its just not "politically correct" to say things like that.

i mean, its Kobe freaking Bryant we're talking about. people say this guy is the second coming of Michael Jordan. how in the hell could Jamal Crawford even be in the same sentence?! yea i know. its crazy outlandish stuff. :speechless:

Blasphemy, i tell you!!!

-Kobe24-TJ19-
04-28-2011, 02:20 PM
Jamal has a career 15.3 Per and 0.074 WS/48 :laugh::laugh::laugh2:

Kashmir13579
04-28-2011, 02:21 PM
i'm done with this for the time-being. its not gonna go anywhere and it was silly for me to even mention this. like i said, i will revisit this when the playoffs have concluded. Currently, Crawford is playing like a Kobe Bryant type talent and i wouldn't be surprised if he continues to do so. i wouldn't be surprised at all.

Kashmir13579
04-28-2011, 02:22 PM
Jamal has a career 15.3 Per and 0.074 WS/48 :laugh::laugh::laugh2:

lmao. thats supposed to prove what??? i never ONCE said that Crawford has had a better career. thats not my argument at all.

Double_R
04-28-2011, 02:24 PM
Jamal Crawford is just a shot chuckker, I mean the guy has started in 67+ games in 3 seasons in which he shot an avg of .386(6.4 fgm -16.5 fga for example), .398, .410(which is his career fg%) in those seasons.

Oh and don't give me TS% or anything else, I never said he wasn't a good shooter and he's a good free throw shooter, just a shot chuckker. No

-Kobe24-TJ19-
04-28-2011, 02:26 PM
lmao. thats supposed to prove what??? i never ONCE said that Crawford has had a better career. thats not my argument at all.

He's a chucker who hits some big shots, thats all

Tha Truth
04-28-2011, 02:30 PM
draft this guy to the Lakers and he'd have a Kobe Bryant-esque career. top NBA talent and very underrated, imo.

i'm not trying to muddy the waters... but what exactly can Kobe Bryant do, that Jamal Crawford can't??

SMH!

Has this been sigged yet?

Raph12
04-28-2011, 02:31 PM
Today's league:
1. Fisher
2. Korver
3. Crawford

All Time: Robert Horry

Squad13
04-28-2011, 02:37 PM
naww, its just not "politically correct" to say things like that.

i mean, its Kobe freaking Bryant we're talking about. people say this guy is the second coming of Michael Jordan. how in the hell could Jamal Crawford even be in the same sentence?! yea i know. its crazy outlandish stuff. :speechless:

Blasphemy, i tell you!!!

Dude... Jamal Crawford is nowhere near as talented. Kobe Bryant took a team of scrubs Smush parker, Luke Walton, LO and Kwame Brown as starters... to the playoffs and always played the suns strong. Jamal Crawford is nothing but a spark off the bench. The dude doesn't play any D, at all. I'm gonna have to sig quote you :laugh:

BklynKnicks3
04-28-2011, 05:30 PM
Jamal crawford is closer to Kobe then derek Fisher is to him. Fisher is a scrub who hit timely shots mostly open. If fisher was on bad team like crawford was would he would be out of the league.

Sactown
04-28-2011, 05:50 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2b2Yh7mcZw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icc-fmh43AA&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3TjJXfoqLw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3JjIqEqPcg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuEt73HAK8U

Killing teams one at a time!

Klivlend
04-28-2011, 05:54 PM
Starting PG on 5 Title teams. Some very good defense and some very big shots that helped win a few of those Titles. That's somewhat legendary.


A Laker legend. bruh

Big difference between NBA Legend and Laker Legend. If you guys want to claim D. Fish as a Laker Legend, go for it. Just don't expect the NBA community to follow suit and widely accept him as an NBA Legend.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
04-28-2011, 05:56 PM
Jamal crawford is closer to Kobe then derek Fisher is to him. Fisher is a scrub who hit timely shots mostly open. If fisher was on bad team like crawford was would he would be out of the league.

If Hawks are a bad team, then what are the knicks:confused:

Lake_Show2416
04-28-2011, 06:14 PM
if hawks are a bad team, then what are the knicks:confused:

scrubs

*Silver&Black*
04-28-2011, 06:24 PM
Crawford is prob 2nd or 3rd non-star clutch in the league, but without a doubt, the best player's handles in the league. In a 1 on 1 streetball game, and if you pick Lebron or Kobe, I'm picking Jamal.

mttwlsn16
04-28-2011, 06:42 PM
oh right. that flopping guy.

lol :clap:

mttwlsn16
04-28-2011, 06:51 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtvJolz-6ZA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vho7HNgqRsQ&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zMfUbNSoek

homestarunner93
04-28-2011, 07:01 PM
draft this guy to the Lakers and he'd have a Kobe Bryant-esque career. top NBA talent and very underrated, imo.

i'm not trying to muddy the waters... but what exactly can Kobe Bryant do, that Jamal Crawford can't??

Play defense?

BklynKnicks3
04-30-2011, 11:01 AM
Knicks are going to be a top 5 team in nba for next 4 years

BklynKnicks3
04-30-2011, 11:02 AM
derek fisher what a joke.

eugene
04-30-2011, 11:28 AM
Where is Robert Horry?

BKdoubleStacker
04-30-2011, 12:25 PM
Knicks are going to be a top 5 team in nba for next 4 years

ummm no

you really think you are going to be a top team with 2 offensive players who dont play a lick of defense??

Yea, fisher is a scrub. That's why hes hit so many clutch shots in his career and was a premier defender in his prime. Sure, he sucks now, if thats what you are saying.

And Jamal crawford can score...whooptey ****in do. what a joke....comparing his talent to kobe lmao. The guy plays no defense whatsoever.

Have fun going fishing early on TNT for the next several years.