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View Full Version : How good is Russell Westbrook?



hotpotato1092
04-25-2011, 04:04 PM
I'm just curious, how good do you all think Russell Westbrook is? Is he a top 15 player? Top 10? Can he be a top 5 guy? If he had his own team, could he be lead them to a title (assuming the role players were in place)? Personally, I think he's great. He's 95% as talented as Rose and every bit as good as Rondo. He's only gonna get better. When he develops a jump shot, and him and Durant get some more crunch time experience (because honestly, their crunch time chemistry is not great) I think he's a legitimate super star. What do you all think?

Hawkeye15
04-25-2011, 04:06 PM
I don't think a PG led team wins titles unless the equation is just right. Westbrook is probably a top 15 player at this point, and I think he is a top 4 PG. Obviously living in the shadow of Durant hurts his overall rating from the general fans perception. I don't really understand that line of reasoning, but it happens.

I think he could be a top 5-8 player for sure in his prime.

rapjuicer06
04-25-2011, 04:08 PM
well he is almost identical to another amazing guard so i'd say he's in the top 15, top 10. IMO personally i think he's better than durant because he does more than just shoot.

iggypop123
04-25-2011, 04:11 PM
a west coast rose

MoBASS
04-25-2011, 04:12 PM
He's a good player but he shoots too much. Durant should be the undeniable #1 option on that team but he isn't.

Tarheels23
04-25-2011, 04:14 PM
Top 20 player

rapjuicer06
04-25-2011, 04:14 PM
He's a good player but he shoots too much. Durant should be the undeniable #1 option on that team but he isn't.

durant is the number option?

FadeAwayLikeMJ
04-25-2011, 04:15 PM
i dunno, be he is a top 5 PG for sure

SeoulBeatz
04-25-2011, 04:20 PM
IMO is more talented (overall) than Durant, and both are elite players.

Master Mind
04-25-2011, 04:21 PM
a west coast rose

This.

Chronz
04-25-2011, 04:24 PM
98% of however good you think Rose is

AIRMAR72
04-25-2011, 04:26 PM
top 5 in PG top 10-15 in overall player for sure lethal midrange game the offense should start with him NOT durant

Raph12
04-25-2011, 04:41 PM
a west coast rose

This, he plays a different style, but talentwise is very comparable to Rose.

ramsizzle
04-25-2011, 04:43 PM
top 5 in PG top 10-15 in overall player for sure lethal midrange game the offense should start with him NOT durant

He is literally better than Westerbrook in EVERY advanced stat whether it be offensive of defensive. He should pass the ball off to Durant at all times n let him to work.

Gram
04-25-2011, 04:45 PM
Top 15.

Bruno
04-25-2011, 04:48 PM
He's fantastic. Top 15, and that's without thinking about it or writing out a list.

smith&wesson
04-25-2011, 05:02 PM
chris paul
d will
drose
rondo
westbrook
nash

those 6 guys in any order you want to put them in are the best pg's in the league. so my answer is he is one of the best. that makes him very good.

ChiSox219
04-25-2011, 05:12 PM
I've been high on the Thunder for a while now but I can't give Westbrook the credit most people thinks he deserves.

The guy is an amazing athlete but his basketball decisions leave a lot to be desired. He loves to take pull-up 18 footers, often times contested ones. You see him go after Orebs too often and I've seen this cost the Thunder a win because of easy transition points. Turnovers are an issue. For a guy that was supposed an off-guard coming up, he's not really effective off the ball, not a great slasher or spot up shooter, you don't see him swing the ball often. He uses more possessions than KD despite being far less efficient than Durant.

He gets compared to Rose which I can understand but their is a significant gap between the two.

tyfreaks brotha
04-25-2011, 05:15 PM
[QUOTE=ChiSox219;17645212]I've been high on the Thunder for a while now but I can't give Westbrook the credit most people thinks he deserves.

The guy is an amazing athlete but his basketball decisions leave a lot to be desired. He loves to take pull-up 18 footers, often times contested ones. You see him go after Orebs too often and I've seen this cost the Thunder a win because of easy transition points. Turnovers are an issue. For a guy that was supposed an off-guard coming up, he's not really effective off the ball, not a great slasher or spot up shooter, you don't see him swing the ball often. He uses more possessions than KD despite being far less efficient than Durant.[QUOTE]

This

championships
04-25-2011, 05:17 PM
Pretty good.

rapjuicer06
04-25-2011, 05:26 PM
I've been high on the Thunder for a while now but I can't give Westbrook the credit most people thinks he deserves.

The guy is an amazing athlete but his basketball decisions leave a lot to be desired. He loves to take pull-up 18 footers, often times contested ones. You see him go after Orebs too often and I've seen this cost the Thunder a win because of easy transition points. Turnovers are an issue. For a guy that was supposed an off-guard coming up, he's not really effective off the ball, not a great slasher or spot up shooter, you don't see him swing the ball often. He uses more possessions than KD despite being far less efficient than Durant.

He gets compared to Rose which I can understand but their is a significant gap between the two.

i hope you realized you described rose in all of that. rose stops and takes some stupid *** jumpshots as well. westbrook is a good slasher and can drive with the best of them. he has the same amount of TO's as rose does...you make no sense lol

Rafer17
04-25-2011, 05:30 PM
1 Rose
2 CP3
3 DWill
4 Rondo
5 Westbrook

Geargo Wallace
04-25-2011, 05:40 PM
I don't care about his rank. He's the best fit at PG for his team, and would tear it up just about as hard or harder if he were playing elsewhere. I'd put Paul and DWill over him easily, but it's pretty much a wash w/ Rose, Rondo, and Wbrook. Different games but huge impacts.

Hawkeye15
04-25-2011, 05:43 PM
I don't care about his rank. He's the best fit at PG for his team, and would tear it up just about as hard or harder if he were playing elsewhere. I'd put Paul and DWill over him easily, but it's pretty much a wash w/ Rose, Rondo, and Wbrook. Different games but huge impacts.

I think Rose and Westbrook have separated themselves from Rondo dude. Rondo faded over the second half of the season big time.

Geargo Wallace
04-25-2011, 05:49 PM
I think Rose and Westbrook have separated themselves from Rondo dude. Rondo faded over the second half of the season big time.

Yeah but he gives the C's what they need. I feel like we're comparing Mac's and PC's right now. The entire Celtic's squad seemed to fade a bit too. Maybe they rely on him that much. The kid is beasting right now in the playoffs as well.

Hustlenomics
04-25-2011, 05:50 PM
I think Rose and Westbrook have separated themselves from Rondo dude. Rondo faded over the second half of the season big time.


^ and look what he's doing in the playoffs where it matters

ChiSox219
04-25-2011, 05:53 PM
i hope you realized you described rose in all of that. rose stops and takes some stupid *** jumpshots as well. westbrook is a good slasher and can drive with the best of them. he has the same amount of TO's as rose does...you make no sense lol

Rose makes more of his jumpers, his pull-ups are often 3PA which is a more efficient shot than a 20 footer. Rose turns the ball over less frequently. Rose doesn't have Durant. Rose uses less possessions than Westbrook. Like I said, there is a gap between the two, let's not turn this into a Rose vs Westbrook thread.

Westbrook can drive but when I talk about slashing, I mean without the ball getting to the lane to catch a pass.

ChiSox219
04-25-2011, 05:54 PM
^ and look what he's doing in the playoffs where it matters

knicks

kArSoN RyDaH
04-25-2011, 05:56 PM
He'll never be higher than a top 15 player.

KnicksR4Real
04-25-2011, 06:04 PM
top 20

pebloemer
04-25-2011, 06:06 PM
Fringe Top 10 for me.

Geargo Wallace
04-25-2011, 06:12 PM
knicks

the Bulls are the 1st seed going up against the 8th. Indiana isn't necessarily a step up on New York. Because Indiana makes you guys look like a 4th seed doesn't mean that they're any better than NY.

Bullsfan22
04-25-2011, 06:13 PM
I have Russel Westbrook 10-15 top player right now. He'll surpass Dwill next year and be in the top 3 pg.

JordansBulls
04-25-2011, 06:18 PM
^ and look what he's doing in the playoffs where it matters

Against a team that played no defense and when you have 3 other guys who can create there own shots whenever they feel like it it makes things a lot different.

ChiSox219
04-25-2011, 06:19 PM
the Bulls are the 1st seed going up against the 8th. Indiana isn't necessarily a step up on New York. Because Indiana makes you guys look like a 4th seed doesn't mean that they're any better than NY.

Indiana was an above average defense (#12), NY was below average (#22).


I wanted to face NY first round over Philly and Indiana, even before Billups was hurt.


Not that any of this has to do with Westbrook.

Hustlenomics
04-25-2011, 06:28 PM
knicks


Against a team that played no defense and when you have 3 other guys who can create there own shots whenever they feel like it it makes things a lot different.

and he averaged a triple double against your Bulls the other year. Cut it out he brings his A game every playoff series he's been in

Chronz
04-25-2011, 06:38 PM
Rose makes more of his jumpers, his pull-ups are often 3PA which is a more efficient shot than a 20 footer. Rose turns the ball over less frequently. Rose doesn't have Durant. Rose uses less possessions than Westbrook. Like I said, there is a gap between the two, let's not turn this into a Rose vs Westbrook thread.

Westbrook can drive but when I talk about slashing, I mean without the ball getting to the lane to catch a pass.

Your point about Westbrooks efficiency not justifying his usage given the presence of Durant is well taken but only from a comparison standpoint, from a team necessity standpoint I do think WB has been somewhat forced into his role for the better of the team. That their offense has improved with a more aggressive WB is proof enough for me but I see the argument that he could stand to improve on finding ways to create for Durant. Thing is, if this was Rose looking to create for others as much as RW, he too would be more turnover prone.

With regards to his slashing game, I see you mention Durant but the whole notion of spacing is predicated on the teams collective ability off the ball ability. Durant only occupies 1 zone, with Thabo starting and Perk/Ibaka he rarely has the spacing necessary to take full advantage of his off the ball skills and his drives are slightly more congested. You cant have 3 non shooters on the court and expect 1 guy to display his best stuff.

Geargo Wallace
04-25-2011, 06:42 PM
Indiana was an above average defense (#12), NY was below average (#22).


I wanted to face NY first round over Philly and Indiana, even before Billups was hurt.


Not that any of this has to do with Westbrook.

I bet you didn't want the first seed either... c'mon you're silly.

Hawkeye15
04-25-2011, 06:55 PM
Yeah but he gives the C's what they need. I feel like we're comparing Mac's and PC's right now. The entire Celtic's squad seemed to fade a bit too. Maybe they rely on him that much. The kid is beasting right now in the playoffs as well.

the C's don't need as much help from that position as the Thunder, Bulls, Hornets, or Nets. Imagine Rondo on any of those teams, so reliant on their PG's producing at a high efficiency scoring wise. They would be far worse off. I am not going to say that the C's would be better off with Rose or Westbrook, I haven't seen them own a game without scoring more than 10, but I will say Paul and Williams are far better than Rondo.

I think its clear Rondo's second half slide has pushed him out of the convo for top 3-4 PG currently.

Hawkeye15
04-25-2011, 06:58 PM
^ and look what he's doing in the playoffs where it matters

and what are the others doing? Oh that's right, outplaying Rondo.

I am not onboard with those who claim that the REASON Rondo is good is his cast. But he sure does get away with not having to perform in all areas because of that cast.

Geargo Wallace
04-25-2011, 07:03 PM
I h8 HawkEye.

The Jokemaker
04-25-2011, 07:05 PM
I got Westbrook a couple pegs above Magic Johnson.

X12Celtics3
04-25-2011, 07:13 PM
1. Paul
2. Rose
3. Williams
4. Rondo
5. Westbrook

TheRunKiller
04-25-2011, 07:14 PM
I got Westbrook a couple pegs above Magic Johnson.

:rolleyes:

h2r09
04-25-2011, 07:17 PM
top 5 pg behind

paul
rondo (2nd best because of the team he is on and how good of a fit he is there)
rose
Williams
Westbrook

and i might just take westbrrok over williams at this point.

Duncan = Donkey
04-25-2011, 07:19 PM
Turnover Machine, Good player. But not as good as Paul, Rose, Nash or Williams. 5th best PG in the NBA

Hustlenomics
04-25-2011, 07:27 PM
and what are the others doing? Oh that's right, outplaying Rondo.

I am not onboard with those who claim that the REASON Rondo is good is his cast. But he sure does get away with not having to perform in all areas because of that cast.

Chris Paul is..D-will isn't in the playoffs, Rose is so inefficient and all he tries to do is score, and Russel's a baller

Baller1
04-25-2011, 07:44 PM
The most physically gifted, athletic PG in the league who still lacks the maturity and basketball IQ of the elite players in the NBA.

Fringe top 10 player.

SEATTLEredsox
04-25-2011, 11:12 PM
The most physically gifted, athletic PG in the league who still lacks the maturity and basketball IQ of the elite players in the NBA.

Fringe top 10 player.

Sounds about right. He still has trouble with decision making, and isn't great in the half court offense. I have him in the 10-12 range.

ChiSox219
04-26-2011, 01:35 AM
Your point about Westbrooks efficiency not justifying his usage given the presence of Durant is well taken but only from a comparison standpoint, from a team necessity standpoint I do think WB has been somewhat forced into his role for the better of the team. That their offense has improved with a more aggressive WB is proof enough for me but I see the argument that he could stand to improve on finding ways to create for Durant. Thing is, if this was Rose looking to create for others as much as RW, he too would be more turnover prone.

With regards to his slashing game, I see you mention Durant but the whole notion of spacing is predicated on the teams collective ability off the ball ability. Durant only occupies 1 zone, with Thabo starting and Perk/Ibaka he rarely has the spacing necessary to take full advantage of his off the ball skills and his drives are slightly more congested. You cant have 3 non shooters on the court and expect 1 guy to display his best stuff.

Maynor-Harden-Durant + 2 Bigs do really well together, i don't have any numbers just from what I've seen watching the Thunder throughout the year.

I'm not saying Westbrook should become Jason Kidd, just there's a few times every game where he makes the wrong decision and I think it's amplified because he plays with Durant who makes fewer wrong decisions.

Tonight's game showed a couple things I'm talking about. Westbrook had a great and 1 layup to keep OKC in the game. Then, after a failed fastbreak, RW pulls the ball out and basically holds it for 15 seconds before putting up a contested 20 footer for a miss. Then he drives into Lawson for the offensive foul/turnover. Then takes a quick three. Finally airballs a 25 foot pull up with enough time on the clock to get it to Durant who was hot.


I bet you didn't want the first seed either... c'mon you're silly.

Wanted first seed and NY.

Baller1
04-26-2011, 01:45 AM
Westbrook sucks...




:laugh2:

Hawkeye15
04-26-2011, 01:47 AM
Chris Paul is..D-will isn't in the playoffs, Rose is so inefficient and all he tries to do is score, and Russel's a baller

I understand DWill isn't in the playoffs. But the other three are outplaying Rondo. They just are.

My statement is true. Rondo has fallen behind the pack after his 2nd half slide, and the same statement holds true in the playoffs bro

Crackadalic
04-26-2011, 01:47 AM
His decision making has to be better. Thats the only thing stopping him to greatness as people say

Bullsfan22
04-26-2011, 01:47 AM
still think rose and westbrook will be the best pg's in the league by their 6th year

Baller1
04-26-2011, 01:49 AM
still think rose and westbrook will be the best pg's in the league by their 6th year

That's a tough call with CP3 and Williams still being in their prime.

meloman1592
04-26-2011, 01:50 AM
Westbrook is Rose's alter-ego

meloman1592
04-26-2011, 01:51 AM
still think rose and westbrook will be the best pg's in the league by their 6th year

*cough cough* john wall:hide:

ChiSox219
04-26-2011, 01:58 AM
Westbrook sucks...




:laugh2:


How many points does Durant score if he got 30 attempts?

Baller1
04-26-2011, 02:00 AM
How many points does Durant score if he got 30 attempts?

Hmmm... In that game, I'd give him anywhere from 42-50 honestly. He was hitting his three and getting to the line. Had he taken 30 shots, it's safe to assume he would've gotten to the line more as well, and who knows how many he could've scored.

Westbrook really messed up the sweep, and that's after he actually played a solid first three quarters. That won't be what's remembered though, and rightfully so unfortunately.

Bullsfan22
04-26-2011, 02:03 AM
That's a tough call with CP3 and Williams still being in their prime.

Cp3's athleticism has already started dwindling in three years it will be worse. He'll still have his sexy efficiency numbers, but won't be making the same overall Impact IMO.

I think Deron Will remain the best all-around pg but I feel deron has hit his ceiling in terms of raw scoring ability and defense.

I may have worded my last post wrong but I feel the the point guard position will evolve into "great players" playing the point guard position. I think both Rose and westbrook's raw abilities coupled with a higher basketball IQ turns them into elite "players" and will over shadow them playing the position of the point guard.

after all this is just my opinion and is not based off any evidence so I'll accept any criticism I get.

Baller1
04-26-2011, 02:09 AM
Cp3's athleticism has already started dwindling in three years it will be worse. He'll still have his sexy efficiency numbers, but won't be making the same overall Impact IMO.

I think Deron Will remain the best all-around pg but I feel deron has hit his ceiling in terms of raw scoring ability and defense.

I may have worded my last post wrong but I feel the the point guard position will evolve into "great players" playing the point guard position. I think both Rose and westbrook's raw abilities coupled with a higher basketball IQ turns them into elite "players" and will over shadow them playing the position of the point guard.

after all this is just my opinion and is not based off any evidence so I'll accept any criticism I get.

I read your post wrong at first and thought it said "high basketball IQ", as opposed to "higher basketball IQ".

Had me questioning your insight a bit there... :smoking:

I don't necessarily disagree really, I just think it's tough to put Rose and Westy above CP3 and D-Will, even in a few years. No criticism though, it's all opinionated speculation anyway.

Bullsfan22
04-26-2011, 02:18 AM
*cough cough* john wall:hide:

Next year Wall has to prove he has a work ethic and improve his weaknesses before he's added or compared to those two players.

It's an insult to how Rose and Westbrook to automatically assume Wall will do the same to get better. potential is blahh until you prove your work ethic.

see T-MAC.

Raph12
04-26-2011, 02:20 AM
I read your post wrong at first and thought it said "high basketball IQ", as opposed to "higher basketball IQ".

Had me questioning your insight a bit there... :smoking:

I don't necessarily disagree really, I just think it's tough to put Rose and Westy above CP3 and D-Will, even in a few years. No criticism though, it's all opinionated speculation anyway.

I could see both eclipsing DWill, CP3 not so much... Maybe if he has another severe injury that will hold him back from doing what he's best at.

Bullsfan22
04-26-2011, 02:21 AM
I read your post wrong at first and thought it said "high basketball IQ", as opposed to "higher basketball IQ".

Had me questioning your insight a bit there... :smoking:

I don't necessarily disagree really, I just think it's tough to put Rose and Westy above CP3 and D-Will, even in a few years. No criticism though, it's all opinionated speculation anyway.

Yeah fair enough It's a gut thing and I'm banking on teams basically caving into the pressure of having a supremely talented point guard to match up against team after team.

checkit
04-26-2011, 03:27 AM
He will most likely go down the Marbury route.

Mudvayne91
04-26-2011, 03:42 AM
He complains way too much. He gets very generous calls and still cries to the refs. That being said, he's still a hell of a player. Whether I think he gets bailed out too often at the line doesn't matter, the fact is he still gets there usually 10 times a game and hardly misses. Not to mention his mid to outside shooting is steadily getting better. He needs to stop taking so many out of control shots, but I'd say he's top 5 PG.

Whomewhome
04-26-2011, 03:58 AM
Here is how good he is looking at the other YOUNG PG

Tier One PG
Deron Williams, CP 3, Rose
Tier two PG
Westbrook, Rondo,
Tier three PG
Jameer Nelson, Kirk Hinrich, Devin Harris,

finalverse
04-26-2011, 07:44 AM
Like his talents but as a player he complains to much, celebrates uncessarily and flops around everytime he is brushed lightly. Bugs the hell out of me.

Raidaz4Life
04-26-2011, 08:52 AM
If I had to start a team with any point guard it would be Westbrook.

jtsunami
04-26-2011, 09:28 AM
The last 3 games RW has taken 63 shots while shooting 39% for 74 points. He is averaging 1.17 points per fg attempt.

During that stretch he is shooting 18% from 3.

NOTE: for the entire Indiana series, Rose is averaging 1.28 points per fg attempt.

;)

Rentzias
04-26-2011, 09:36 AM
Dude took 30 shots last night, 23 in Game 1, and has a HIGH of 8 assists for the series, along with games of 5 and 7 turnovers. By comparison, CP3 has had a high of 18 FGA and a LOW of 8 assists for the series with the Lakers.

For the whole season, CP3 had two games where he attempted 20 shots. Westbrook has 5 in the past 9 games. That's a lot for a PG, and you could see it caused tension last night between he and Durant.

Good player with an enormous ceiling, but plays recklessly and out of control, and does not want to defer, which is what PGs should do.

YoungOne
04-26-2011, 10:00 AM
he plays too much out of control to be one of the best... maybe he will learn to calm down as time is passing by..

Double_R
04-26-2011, 10:11 AM
He is the West version of Derek Rose, despite being a better passer, rebounder, and defender than Rose, they are about equal in terms of what they are. Which is scoring pg that shoot a bunch.

Double_R
04-26-2011, 10:14 AM
Here is how good he is looking at the other YOUNG PG

Tier One PG
Deron Williams, CP 3, Rose
Tier two PG
Westbrook, Rondo,
Tier three PG
Jameer Nelson, Kirk Hinrich, Devin Harris,

What separates Rose from Westbrook???

Paul is on tier 1 by himself, Tier 2 Dwill, Tier 3 Rose, Rondo, and Westrbook(Yea I get that Rose and Westbrook are better scorers/shooters, but Rondo clearly makes up with his pure passing, rebounding, and by being a top defensive pg.

beardown78
04-26-2011, 11:09 AM
I think Westbrook will be A top 3 pg in A few years, people seem like they forget how young he is and he'll only get better as his game matures. Its easy to be critical of his flaws but he's still ahead of the curve at this stage of his career imo. I predict when he hits his prime in 5 years or so he will be A box score filler. Stop being so critical if A young young star player has flaws, hell if he stayed in school he'll be what a junior

shizzle09
04-26-2011, 12:16 PM
a west coast rose

this, i'd say the only difference is Rose has a better killer instinct. Rose at the end of games is a dirty killer.

Chronz
04-26-2011, 01:24 PM
Next year Wall has to prove he has a work ethic and improve his weaknesses before he's added or compared to those two players.

It's an insult to how Rose and Westbrook to automatically assume Wall will do the same to get better. potential is blahh until you prove your work ethic.

see T-MAC.
LMFAO Tmac? Your only helping his case

Chronz
04-26-2011, 01:27 PM
The last 3 games RW has taken 63 shots while shooting 39% for 74 points. He is averaging 1.17 points per fg attempt.

During that stretch he is shooting 18% from 3.

NOTE: for the entire Indiana series, Rose is averaging 1.28 points per fg attempt.

;)

Theres a 1PT difference in their respective offensive rating. One player is going up against a top team, the other against a sub .500.

Are you really suggesting that Rose has had the superior playoff series?

AIMelo=KillaDUO
04-26-2011, 01:32 PM
He's alright lol

allSUAVE
04-26-2011, 01:36 PM
I'm trying to figure that out because if I have him in the top 15 that's unfair to Monte Ellis

Chronz
04-26-2011, 01:38 PM
I'm trying to figure that out because if I have him in the top 15 that's unfair to Monte Ellis

lol good one

cubswin25
04-26-2011, 01:48 PM
IMO he's right behind Rose and Paul and probably moved past Deron Williams this season. It's really hard to judge how good Westbrook is compared to the other top PG, when he's not the best player on his team. Yes some people assume that if he was the top guy on his team, he would be the best or one of the best. But it doesn't work that way, and don't discount the fact that playing with Durant probably helps his game a lot. Since all the other top PG are the best players on their team, and teams try to shut them down every night. While Durant is usually the main focus of teams game plans when they play the other and it makes it a little easier on Westbrook.

cubswin25
04-26-2011, 01:52 PM
this, i'd say the only difference is Rose has a better killer instinct. Rose at the end of games is a dirty killer.

That and the fact that things are harder for Rose. Because he's the number one option and teams try to shut him down every night. It's a lot easier on Westbrook to play with another superstar. Because it allows him to often get better shots then Rose probably gets. But on the other hand, that hurts the Westbrook hype as well because he's always in Durant shadow. While Rose is the star and going to be the MVP of the league.

Hellcrooner
04-26-2011, 01:57 PM
Much better than initially expected.
Worse than people makes him out to be right now.

A really really talented one Imo and will get to Asg regulary.

justinnum1
04-26-2011, 02:07 PM
he's good

SugeKnight
04-26-2011, 02:13 PM
lol good one

Why are you laughing?

Monta is a better player than Russel Westbrook. T_T <Serious face

jtsunami
04-26-2011, 02:15 PM
Theres a 1PT difference in their respective offensive rating. One player is going up against a top team, the other against a sub .500.

Are you really suggesting that Rose has had the superior playoff series?

It was a parody of the bogus thread started yesterday (you may have posted in it) about "The Myth That Derrick Rose Can Shoot."

But since you are going about it that way, are you really suggesting that each player has the same scenario? I didn't know Russell Westbrook was getting doubled off every ballscreen and when he crosses halfcourt. I also didn't know that Russell Westbrook suffered an ankle injury in his awful performance last night.

Double_R
04-26-2011, 02:35 PM
That and the fact that things are harder for Rose. Because he's the number one option and teams try to shut him down every night. It's a lot easier on Westbrook to play with another superstar. Because it allows him to often get better shots then Rose probably gets. But on the other hand, that hurts the Westbrook hype as well because he's always in Durant shadow. While Rose is the star and going to be the MVP of the league.

Seriously,
have you watched the Thunder play, they don't really have any offensive options outside of Durant and Westbrook. They have no options in the post, they have no interior offense. How about the Rose plays along side of Boozer, Deng, and Noah and that allows him to be better.

I love seeing all these Bulls fans act like Rose is in a different league or something. They are basically identical players, except Westbrook is a better passer, rebounder, and defender(and he avg 2 stls a game). If you put Westbrook on the Bulls they are still the same team. I am not taking anything away from Rose, but he's not on Paul's level, not close. Him and Westbrook are on the same level; allstar level.

sargon21
04-26-2011, 02:39 PM
TOP PGs after this year

1. Rose
1. CP3
-- these guys just play too differently to accurately compare them, so I have em at a tie for the first spot
3. Dwill
4. Westbrook
5. Nash
6. Rondo
7. Curry
8. Parker
9. Holiday
10. Conley

that's how I see the PGs go as of now...

for westbrook overall, I'd say he's top 15-17

sargon21
04-26-2011, 02:43 PM
Seriously,
have you watched the Thunder play, they don't really have any offensive options outside of Durant and Westbrook. They have no options in the post, they have no interior offense. How about the Rose plays along side of Boozer, Deng, and Noah and that allows him to be better.

I love seeing all these Bulls fans act like Rose is in a different league or something. They are basically identical players, except Westbrook is a better passer, rebounder, and defender(and he avg 2 stls a game). If you put Westbrook on the Bulls they are still the same team. I am not taking anything away from Rose, but he's not on Paul's level, not close. Him and Westbrook are on the same level; allstar level.

Westbrook is literally better at nothing than Rose.

Better passer, no, he averages more assists but also makes more dumb plays by throwing too many risky passes and too many offensive fouls.

Better rebounder, no. He just goes for literally any offensive rebound he can find which can be a detriment to his team as he often has to play from behind, which can give the opposing team an open break. And Rose plays on the best rebounding team in the league so it would be pointless for him to go after those rebounds, as Noah, Boozer, or Deng will get it.

Better defender, I feel is debatable. Rose is a very solid man-to-man, ISO defender, probably one of the best in the league. Rose still struggles a bit on PnR's which hurt him. He's the best shot-blocking PG in the league, and one thing that needs to be said is that steals =/= good defense, though Westbrook def is a good defender.

midwestmadman
04-26-2011, 02:51 PM
If he could hit the 3 at a higher rate I'd say he is equal to Rose, I think he is a better assisting pg at about 8.5 per game, and he rebounds slightly better also. Rose to me is better in crunch time right now, but Westbrook is right there with him. I;d say top 5 PG definately top 20 in the league now, and if anyone said top 15 I probably wouldn't argue either.

Double_R
04-26-2011, 02:55 PM
Westbrook is literally better at nothing than Rose.

Better passer, no, he averages more assists but also makes more dumb plays by throwing too many risky passes and too many offensive fouls.

Better rebounder, no. He just goes for literally any offensive rebound he can find which can be a detriment to his team as he often has to play from behind, which can give the opposing team an open break. And Rose plays on the best rebounding team in the league so it would be pointless for him to go after those rebounds, as Noah, Boozer, or Deng will get it.

Better defender, I feel is debatable. Rose is a very solid man-to-man, ISO defender, probably one of the best in the league. Rose still struggles a bit on PnR's which hurt him. He's the best shot-blocking PG in the league, and one thing that needs to be said is that steals =/= good defense, though Westbrook def is a good defender.

First off I never said that steals = good defense, just added it in.

Westbrook PER 23.63, Defensive Rebound Rate: 10.3, Offensive Rebound Rate: 5.2, WS: 6.73, Adjusted PER:26.32
Rose:PER 23.62, DRR: 9.4, ORR: 3.2, WS: 6.89, Adjusted PER: 26.23

They are basically identical, except for the fact that Westbrook is a better rebounder, passer, and thief.


PS: Paul and Rose are not on same level: Playoffs prove that even though I don't like a tiny sample but seriously Paul is going against the Lakers and Rose is going against the Pacers and look who is killing it.

naps
04-26-2011, 03:09 PM
Better than Rose IMO.

Bullsfan22
04-26-2011, 03:18 PM
First off I never said that steals = good defense, just added it in.

Westbrook PER 23.63, Defensive Rebound Rate: 10.3, Offensive Rebound Rate: 5.2, WS: 6.73, Adjusted PER:26.32
Rose:PER 23.62, DRR: 9.4, ORR: 3.2, WS: 6.89, Adjusted PER: 26.23

They are basically identical, except for the fact that Westbrook is a better rebounder, passer, and thief.


PS: Paul and Rose are not on same level: Playoffs prove that even though I don't like a tiny sample but seriously Paul is going against the Lakers and Rose is going against the Pacers and look who is killing it.

Oh my he's going against the lakers you say that as if the lakers actually shut down top tier point guards. That's probably their number one weakness, guarding the PnR and pg's.

So yes it's a tiny sample size against derek fisher.

JordansBulls
04-26-2011, 03:43 PM
First off I never said that steals = good defense, just added it in.

Westbrook PER 23.63, Defensive Rebound Rate: 10.3, Offensive Rebound Rate: 5.2, WS: 6.73, Adjusted PER:26.32
Rose:PER 23.62, DRR: 9.4, ORR: 3.2, WS: 6.89, Adjusted PER: 26.23

They are basically identical, except for the fact that Westbrook is a better rebounder, passer, and thief.


PS: Paul and Rose are not on same level: Playoffs prove that even though I don't like a tiny sample but seriously Paul is going against the Lakers and Rose is going against the Pacers and look who is killing it.

Nearly every PG kills the Lakers yearly. Hell you can go back to 2003 and you would have thought Troy Hudson was a star the way he was killing the Lakers.

0nekhmer
04-26-2011, 03:48 PM
i like him. i would actually take him over durant. lockdown defender. rose like scorer, ony 2 years in league..

jtsunami
04-26-2011, 03:55 PM
:laugh:

cmellofan15
04-26-2011, 04:22 PM
still better than Derrick Rose.

Chronz
04-26-2011, 04:26 PM
It was a parody of the bogus thread started yesterday (you may have posted in it) about "The Myth That Derrick Rose Can Shoot."

But since you are going about it that way, are you really suggesting that each player has the same scenario? I didn't know Russell Westbrook was getting doubled off every ballscreen and when he crosses halfcourt. I also didn't know that Russell Westbrook suffered an ankle injury in his awful performance last night.

Oops no clue, Ive been away from my pc for awhile now.

Im suggesting that citing their stats in support of Rose isnt going to work.

Bullsfan22
04-26-2011, 04:29 PM
Every PG conversation always goes full circle and hits on Rose at some point..hmm wonder why.

JordansBulls
04-26-2011, 04:30 PM
still better than Derrick Rose.

He never was.

checkit
04-26-2011, 04:36 PM
I'm no fan of Rose. But watching Westbrook play has made me respect Rose's game a bit more. His decision making is terrible. Hopefully, it improves over his career. If it doesn't, I expect that his name will drop from the best PG talks.

Trueblue2
04-26-2011, 04:43 PM
Every PG conversation always goes full circle and hits on Rose at some point..hmm wonder why.

Because the thread is about where Westbrook ranks among point guards and rose is a top pg in the league... Saying Westbrook is better than or equal to rose isn't hating on rose it's a legitimate opinion that's backed up by stats.

I personally think rose is the better player but it's absolutely not hating to think otherwise. Everytime anyone mentions that someone might be better than rose bulls fans get all butthurt and start calling everyone haters (not necesarily talking about you, but you have to know what i mean).

ChicagoRox
04-26-2011, 04:43 PM
RW = Not good enough to realize that the last shot should be taken by Durant.

Bullsfan22
04-26-2011, 05:03 PM
Because the thread is about where Westbrook ranks among point guards and rose is a top pg in the league... Saying Westbrook is better than or equal to rose isn't hating on rose it's a legitimate opinion that's backed up by stats.

I personally think rose is the better player but it's absolutely not hating to think otherwise. Everytime anyone mentions that someone might be better than rose bulls fans get all butthurt and start calling everyone haters (not necesarily talking about you, but you have to know what i mean).

I mean the majority of the time when Rose is brought up it's negative here. I for one have called out some people when it's blatantly obvious just for kicks.

I have a lot of respect for westbrook because he's probably one of the reasons why Rose is so good in the first place. People seem to forget that they go at it and work out with each other every off season.

The NBA forum is nothing more than a vicious cycle. it started with Bulls fans being overly excited about Rose, then everyone else growing tired of it. Then the majority of Bulls fans came off the high of gloating and other fans continued with the hate or negativity towards Rose every chance they get. and once again Rose fans go out there way to gloat.

It's a bunch of immaturity on both fans rather you or every other fan base want to admit it or not. I can name about 20-30 posters right now that scan threads and look for anything remotely Rose related to take shots. There's even some that consistently bring up valid points but when you constantly talk nothing but negative things about a player it's obvious you dislike like the player and you're better off just not talking about him at all or don't cry VICTIM when you get called out by a bunch of bulls fans.

Master Mind
04-26-2011, 05:15 PM
Westbrook shoots way too much

heattiltheend94
04-26-2011, 05:18 PM
Top 15 for sure. I'd say 4th best pg though behind CP3, Rose, and Williams in that order.

ChiSox219
04-26-2011, 05:33 PM
Theres a 1PT difference in their respective offensive rating. One player is going up against a top team, the other against a sub .500.

Are you really suggesting that Rose has had the superior playoff series?

I don't really get this, Indiana's defense is better than Denver's.

Also, Westbrook is rarely double teamed, at least in comparison to Rose. The amount of defensive attention Rose draws is insane, on Lebron/Jordan level.

1-800-STFU
04-26-2011, 05:39 PM
He is right in that mix of top 2-5 PG's with D-Will/Rose/Rondo/Westbrook

The margin between them is extremely slim though.

magichatnumber9
04-26-2011, 05:39 PM
I don't know but he takes a lot of stupid shots.

finalverse
04-26-2011, 05:43 PM
I like Westbrook, a lot of us do. But come on guys...he is usually single covered. Rarely do I see him doubled...actually I don't think I've ever seen him doubled.

MinVikesFan
04-26-2011, 05:49 PM
****ing Amazin

Redbull
04-26-2011, 07:04 PM
I have him at #7 right now, I really like his game.

1. Lebron
2. Dwight
3. Wade
4. Durant
5. Kobe
6. Rose
7. Westbrook

h2r09
04-26-2011, 07:08 PM
I have him at #7 right now, I really like his game.

1. Lebron
2. Dwight
3. Wade
4. Durant
5. Kobe
6. Rose
7. Westbrook

that is one of the best and most perspective filled lists ive seen on this site. a rarity from anyone here. 7 might be a little high for him but aside from that i completely agree with that list.

championships
04-26-2011, 07:12 PM
Apparently not as good as he thinks he is.

Chronz
04-26-2011, 07:13 PM
I don't really get this, Indiana's defense is better than Denver's.

Also, Westbrook is rarely double teamed, at least in comparison to Rose. The amount of defensive attention Rose draws is insane, on Lebron/Jordan level.

Not based on how Denver has performed since the trade.

I dont buy this idea that Rose draws significantly more attention when you consider that lack of spacing WB has to overcome on his team.

PatsSoxKnicks
04-26-2011, 07:13 PM
I don't really get this, Indiana's defense is better than Denver's.


Post All-Star break Denver? I doubt it.

checkit
04-26-2011, 07:15 PM
I have him at #7 right now, I really like his game.

1. Lebron
2. Dwight
3. Wade
4. Durant
5. Kobe
6. Rose
7. Westbrook

Hmm..interesting. Russ must think he is this high due to his ill-advised chucking. If I even ranked players, (which I don't because bball is a team sport, not and individual one meaning the way a player plays is somewhat impacted by the team he plays with) I would have him somewhere in the teens. He has lots to improve on to be considered a top notch player.

Bishnoff
04-26-2011, 07:16 PM
I don't think a PG led team wins titles unless the equation is just right.

Gotta agree with this.

sunsfan88
04-27-2011, 04:21 AM
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Deron Williams
Steve Nash
Russel Westbrook

So yea he is top 5 PG but I doubt top 15 player maybe top 20 if he stops ball hogging and passes to Durant more instead of taking bad shots to try to play hero.

sunsfan88
04-27-2011, 04:25 AM
I have him at #7 right now, I really like his game.

1. Lebron
2. Dwight
3. Wade
4. Durant
5. Kobe
6. Rose
7. Westbrook

So higher than CP3, Dirk, D-Will, Melo, Amare etc?

Wow.

--23--
04-27-2011, 05:37 AM
As far as best PG's Westbrook is in the top 5, but overall I don't know maybe he's a top 10 player.

stlbest5in2013
04-27-2011, 05:39 AM
no he cant lead a team, if going by a small sample size.

he took 2x as many shots as durant, and that is the only game out of 4 they have lost this series

D-Block21-Chito
04-27-2011, 09:50 AM
I love westbrook but do not even start to compare him to Durant. Durant is my MVP behind Rose

Chronz
04-27-2011, 02:32 PM
http://hoopspeak.com/2011/04/derrick-rose-russell-westbrook-and-context/

Rose, Westbrook, and context

Interesting read

Bullsfan22
04-27-2011, 03:37 PM
http://hoopspeak.com/2011/04/derrick-rose-russell-westbrook-and-context/

Rose, Westbrook, and context

Interesting read

I thought that was a great read. While westbrook doesn't have to carry the load Rose has to, to say his job is "easier" is not looking at the whole situation. at 22 years old and having the talent level he has, He has to fit in and yet stand out at the same time because of the presence of Durant.

After Ben Gordon and Kirk was no longer on the Bulls Rose was handed the keys to become and grow into a leader/superstar of the team. The thing that shocked the fans of Chicago and caught the media off guard was, he already had that "killer instinct and composure" to be who is now and took little to know time to grow into that role.

Going back to Westbrook I feel like games like the one he had in the playoffs just recently should be looked at as growing pains and not character issues..

For examples of what Westbrook is going through look no further than you. I'm pretty sure everybody has gotten really good at a certain thing but due to circumstances wasn't allowed "let it all hang out". To go even further Imagine watching every NBA game and only being able to speak about it weekly, for one hour, to one person.

Westbrook will either learn to be the master of constraints in Oklahoma with Durant and be consistent championship contenders or find somewhere else to play.

Until the ladder happens making a 100% accurate comparison between him and Rose will be dang near impossible but yet both would be the most comparable duo of players in the league.

sargon21
04-27-2011, 04:35 PM
So, in theory, if someone averages the same production and efficiency as someone, yet faces much less defensive pressure/attention, that makes them equal?

Bullsfan22
04-27-2011, 05:02 PM
So, in theory, if someone averages the same production and efficiency as someone, yet faces much less defensive pressure/attention, that makes them equal?

no that's probably what sets them apart.

AddiX
04-27-2011, 05:05 PM
how come every time someone makes a thread about a good player Bulls fans bombard it with there insecurities?

sargon21
04-27-2011, 05:09 PM
no that's probably what sets them apart.

that's what I'm getting at, and that's basically why rose is better than westbrook, because he's doing more or at the bare minimum equal to what westbrook is doing while being the #1 option and facing all the defensive pressure while westbrook is the #2 option, and defenses adjust accordingly

haggis
04-27-2011, 05:14 PM
http://hoopspeak.com/2011/04/derrick-rose-russell-westbrook-and-context/

Rose, Westbrook, and context

Interesting read

This link was in the comments section of that article.

Nice find as well..

http://www.anaheimamigos.com/2011/04/which-point-guards-help-their-teams.html?spref=tw

lila1443
04-27-2011, 05:26 PM
He is a great talent..but as far as top 10 nah...too me u have to a the smarts for the game..if not then u could not appreciate the KOBES..JORDANS...SHAQS...come on he is at best a guy on the rise THTS DURANTS TEAM....HE will pull a Marbury and bounce!!!!!!

sargon21
04-27-2011, 06:17 PM
This link was in the comments section of that article.

Nice find as well..

http://www.anaheimamigos.com/2011/04/which-point-guards-help-their-teams.html?spref=tw

Wow, those stats are staggering.

Westbrook was like way down in the negatives on a couple of them.

theSPECIALKID
04-27-2011, 06:35 PM
He's a great player but I question his decision making late in games....

effen5
04-27-2011, 06:41 PM
He's a great player but I question his decision making late in games....

This. But if the Thunder wants to build around Westbrook, Im sure the Bulls will gladly accept Durant :). Maybe defenses will stop double teaming Rose every play in the beginning of a possession.

checkit
04-27-2011, 07:00 PM
This link was in the comments section of that article.

Nice find as well..

http://www.anaheimamigos.com/2011/04/which-point-guards-help-their-teams.html?spref=tw


Nice find indeed. Thanks

Bullsfan22
04-27-2011, 07:56 PM
how come every time someone makes a thread about a good player Bulls fans bombard it with there insecurities?

a non Bulls fan was the first person to bring up Rose. Your theory is dismissed.

sargon21
04-28-2011, 02:36 AM
So, in theory, if someone averages the same production and efficiency as someone, yet faces much less defensive pressure/attention, that makes them equal?

I want some more people to respond to this.

yangx620
04-28-2011, 02:48 AM
i know for a fact, westbrook will leave okc...why? he thinks he is better than durant...and wants to get paidm like a franchise player....do you think okc will do that? i dont think so...get rid of him...ball hogging stephon marbury number two...ruin franchise,..just watch okc

yangx620
04-28-2011, 02:50 AM
but yeah to answer your question, he is fricken good...not better than durant...i think them both are not natural leaders though