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Anon
04-23-2011, 03:37 PM
Both will miss game 4. Not that shocking. Losing Richardson will hurt, Hawks will have to find someone else to do their dirty work.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2011/news/story?id=6415406

J4KOP99
04-23-2011, 03:38 PM
Pachulia may be the biggest ***** in the NBA. I ****ing hate that guy. How do Hawks fans even like him?

assisi805
04-23-2011, 03:46 PM
Well deserved

ManRam
04-23-2011, 03:46 PM
I don't care about losing Richardson. I'd rather play JJ 30 minutes a game right now than not.

Q and hopefully Clark will get more minutes, which is a plus defensively.

Hustlenomics
04-23-2011, 03:47 PM
damn I hope that doesn't cost the magic the series

Chill_Will_24
04-23-2011, 03:48 PM
I think Richardson will hurt more

spreadeagle
04-23-2011, 04:05 PM
Thats weaksauce....its called playoff basketball,back in the day you saw that kinda stuff every game no big deal.Did anyone get hurt? No...Damn David Stern I love ya but but you need to let the game be played with some edge. edit...after watching again I can MAYBE see why the got suspended but I stand by my point lol

spreadeagle
04-23-2011, 04:08 PM
Pachulia may be the biggest ***** in the NBA. I ****ing hate that guy. How do Hawks fans even like him?

He was right though..Howard elbowed him in the face after the play and then Richardson got in his face as he was walking away

JasonJohnHorn
04-23-2011, 04:13 PM
WTF did Pachuilia do? He took a check from HOWARD earlier in the game that should have been a flagarant, then takes and offensive foul (one of Howards classic shoulder dips) which ISNT called, and then gets an BLATANTLY intetionally elbow from Howard, THEN Rich comes in and gets up in his face and all Pachulia does is talk down to Rich.

HOWARD AND RICHARDSON should BOTH be suspended. Pachulia didnt even DO anything. There shouldnt even be a foul called on him on that play, he got fouled BEFORE he touched Howard, THEN got the elbow.

Why isnt Howard being suspended after the intentional check that knocked Pachulia down and THEN the elbow on top of that.

Man, if I hear SVG complain about Howard getting too many flag and techs again I will puke in my mouth after seeing the $#!T that guy gets away with.


Seriously, somebody tell me what Pachulia did that warrants a suspension other than not let Richardson walk all over him and standing his ground. He didnt lift a hand.

m26555
04-23-2011, 04:16 PM
WTF did Pachuilia do? He took a check from HOWARD earlier in the game that should have been a flagarant, then takes and offensive foul (one of Howards classic shoulder dips) which ISNT called, and then gets an BLATANTLY intetionally elbow from Howard, THEN Rich comes in and gets up in his face and all Pachulia does is talk down to Rich.

HOWARD AND RICHARDSON should BOTH be suspended. Pachulia didnt even DO anything. There shouldnt even be a foul called on him on that play, he got fouled BEFORE he touched Howard, THEN got the elbow.

Why isnt Howard being suspended after the intentional check that knocked Pachulia down and THEN the elbow on top of that.

Man, if I hear SVG complain about Howard getting too many flag and techs again I will puke in my mouth after seeing the $#!T that guy gets away with.


Seriously, somebody tell me what Pachulia did that warrants a suspension other than not let Richardson walk all over him and standing his ground. He didnt lift a hand.
Yeah; he just headbutted J-Rich three times; no big deal.

Don't get me wrong; I'm all for standing up for yourself, but a rule is a rule. He deserved the suspension.

spreadeagle
04-23-2011, 04:27 PM
WTF did Pachuilia do? He took a check from HOWARD earlier in the game that should have been a flagarant, then takes and offensive foul (one of Howards classic shoulder dips) which ISNT called, and then gets an BLATANTLY intetionally elbow from Howard, THEN Rich comes in and gets up in his face and all Pachulia does is talk down to Rich.

HOWARD AND RICHARDSON should BOTH be suspended. Pachulia didnt even DO anything. There shouldnt even be a foul called on him on that play, he got fouled BEFORE he touched Howard, THEN got the elbow.

Why isnt Howard being suspended after the intentional check that knocked Pachulia down and THEN the elbow on top of that.

Man, if I hear SVG complain about Howard getting too many flag and techs again I will puke in my mouth after seeing the $#!T that guy gets away with.


Seriously, somebody tell me what Pachulia did that warrants a suspension other than not let Richardson walk all over him and standing his ground. He didnt lift a hand.

ZaZa looked mad pissed I kinda like him now lol

ManRam
04-23-2011, 04:30 PM
Yeah; he just headbutted J-Rich three times; no big deal.

Don't get me wrong; I'm all for standing up for yourself, but a rule is a rule. He deserved the suspension.

Seriously. I don't know how you can say Zaza didn't do anything. Only reason J-Rich slapped Zaza is because Zaza headbutted at him three times.

And Dwight didn't elbow him. He got him with his forearm on a backswing after a shot...it was not an elbow at all. Hence no suspension.

The league got it right.

spreadeagle
04-23-2011, 04:35 PM
Seriously. I don't know how you can say Zaza didn't do anything. Only reason J-Rich slapped Zaza is because Zaza headbutted at him three times.

And Dwight didn't elbow him. He got him with his forearm on a backswing after a shot...it was not an elbow at all. Hence no suspension.

The league got it right.

cmon dude that was so obvious that Howard tried to elbow him after the play,and why did J Rich get in his face anyway? Im not a fan of either team just how I saw it

ManRam
04-23-2011, 04:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3XlcEivrk8


I'm sorry, if that's an elbow...well, IDK what an elbow is I guess. He got him with the forearm, and was clearing him out. He didn't wind up and throw an elbow. He pushed him away. It was high, and in the face, so the technical was warranted, but no further punishment should have been assessed.

Anon
04-23-2011, 05:00 PM
Defending Zaza is ridiculous. Everybody knows his only mission while he is on the court is to cheapshot Dwight.

hawks4
04-23-2011, 06:04 PM
Pachulia may be the biggest ***** in the NBA. I ****ing hate that guy. How do Hawks fans even like him?

Hawks fans like him because he constantly brings his hustle and physical toughness. Zaza isn't much of a statistical player. He's a role player. Meaning that for him he defends well and is constantly hustling. He's definitely one of the toughest players in the league. You can hate Zaza all you want, but most coaches enjoy having a player who does what Zaza does.

As far as the suspensions......nobody deserves to be suspended. This is playoff basketball ladies and gentlemen. Both of them getting ejected was the right call and was enough justice. Suspending both of them may honestly make this series a little less interesting because I don't know about you guys but I think it's even better when players have a scuffle and then have to play each other again a few days later. Makes things a little more interesting......

hawks4
04-23-2011, 06:06 PM
Defending Zaza is ridiculous. Everybody knows his only mission while he is on the court is to cheapshot Dwight.

When did Zaza ever cheapshot Dwight?

FutureGM
04-23-2011, 06:08 PM
Defending Zaza is ridiculous. Everybody knows his only mission while he is on the court is to cheapshot Dwight.

And I love every second of it.

magichatnumber9
04-23-2011, 06:23 PM
Pachulia may be the biggest ***** in the NBA. I ****ing hate that guy. How do Hawks fans even like him?This. and if he had any kind of skill at all he would be hated just like Garnett. But he sucks so nobody cares about his bird face.

hawks4
04-23-2011, 06:23 PM
Lets all be fair about this. Dwight didn't elbow Zaza. His forearm came back and hit him. It did look like he was trying to push him off, but ended up hitting him in the face. Sometimes that just happens by mistake. So that's why Zaza reacted the way he did. He wasn't getting in Dwight's face so I still don't understand why J-Rich reacted the way he did.

HOWEVER.....Zaza did not head butt J-Rich 3 times. He bucked his head at him twice and then head butted him. So all this "Zaza head butted him 3 times" crap needs to stop. Lets be real people.

ManRam
04-23-2011, 06:38 PM
I'll agree with that. The first two head movements weren't full head butts, and I don't even think he was trying to hit Richardson. The third one he did...

He head butted him once, but did do something weird the two times before...

But it was definitely not an elbow...and Dwight does throw a lot of them. I'd have no shame admitting it if it were one.

LOOTERX9
04-23-2011, 06:49 PM
Stern has made the NBA very soft... With all the ticky tack loose ball fouls and respect for the game B.S techs. It's unwatchable at times as games become free throw shooting contest. And I hate that automatc suspension rule if you take a few steps off bench during fight. WTF!!? Lame

gaughan333
04-23-2011, 06:49 PM
Seriously. I don't know how you can say Zaza didn't do anything. Only reason J-Rich slapped Zaza is because Zaza headbutted at him three times.

And Dwight didn't elbow him. He got him with his forearm on a backswing after a shot...it was not an elbow at all. Hence no suspension.

The league got it right.

Homerism at its best. Dwight is dirty too. The only reason that Dwight even got that T was because they reviewed it after the fight. Magic will lose, then lose Dwight, and will be handicapped by their terrible trade pick ups. GL going forward guys.

JasonJohnHorn
04-23-2011, 06:51 PM
Yeah; he just headbutted J-Rich three times; no big deal.

Don't get me wrong; I'm all for standing up for yourself, but a rule is a rule. He deserved the suspension.

He looked down on him, there was no "head butt", Richardson was invading his space.

This is a head butt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou1WcFygh8w&feature=related

ManRam
04-23-2011, 07:05 PM
Homerism at its best. Dwight is dirty too. The only reason that Dwight even got that T was because they reviewed it after the fight. Magic will lose, then lose Dwight, and will be handicapped by their terrible trade pick ups. GL going forward guys.

Considering a Hawks fan agreed with me, I'd relax. Dwight throws bows on the reg, I won't lie. This just wasn't one of them. If he did, I'd say he did...I'm not like that.

Instead of insulting me or my team, tell me what I said was wrong? There's a novel idea....

Thanks for the kind words though!

Would Richardson have slapped Zaza if Zaza didn't head butt him? No.
Is it crazy for me to saw that Zaza did something? I don't think so.
Did Dwight elbow him? Watch the video and let me know. If that's an elbow, well, **** me right.

ManRam
04-23-2011, 07:08 PM
He looked down on him, there was no "head butt", Richardson was invading his space.

This is a head butt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou1WcFygh8w&feature=related

Yeah...showing a wrestling clip, and a dude falling off of ropes onto someone really is a great example. Sure, Zaza didn't swing his head hard, but he still made the motion. He was instigating.

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/sports/topstories/2011/04/23/sp-584zaza.jpg


Yeah...that's not a head butt....sure...

Richardson deserved one game. Zaza deserved on game. Dwight deserved a technical. Why is this so controversial. No one anything did was major, but you can't have that stuff happen.

znick21
04-23-2011, 07:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3XlcEivrk8


I'm sorry, if that's an elbow...well, IDK what an elbow is I guess. He got him with the forearm, and was clearing him out. He didn't wind up and throw an elbow. He pushed him away. It was high, and in the face, so the technical was warranted, but no further punishment should have been assessed.

dude. i know you're defending your team and your boy and all, but dwight is clearly in the wrong too. he didn't "elbow" him, but that check was clearly intentional. his arm was going back towards his body, then for no apparent reason he shoved it right back into pachulia's face. i don't care if pauchulia's job is to foul dwight, that's fine he'll get called for fouls, but a shot to the face by dwight is completely unwarranted. for anybody that's every played basketball, if you take a shot to the face, you'r going to be pissed at the person who did it.

i'm not saying dwight deserved a suspension, but he was the instigator in this.

ManRam
04-23-2011, 07:14 PM
I'm not saying Dwight isn't in the wrong, I'm not even saying he didn't "start it", I'm saying he didn't throw an elbow :shrug: And that he especially doesn't deserve a suspension.

Zaza got mad at what Dwight did, then Jason said something, and Zaza turned around and got in his face. He then threw a really weak head butt, and Richardson reacted.

It all started with Dwight, but it wasn't an elbow though.

championships
04-23-2011, 07:15 PM
He looked down on him, there was no "head butt", Richardson was invading his space.

This is a head butt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou1WcFygh8w&feature=related

Did you just throw out a clip of fake *** wrestling as to what you think a head butt his??!!

:laugh::laugh2::laugh::laugh2:

*Silver&Black*
04-23-2011, 07:17 PM
Defending Zaza is ridiculous. Everybody knows his only mission while he is on the court is to cheapshot Dwight.

People cheapshot Dwight? ha.

spreadeagle
04-23-2011, 07:22 PM
Did you just throw out a clip of fake *** wrestling as to what you think a head butt his??!!

:laugh::laugh2::laugh::laugh2:

I laughed pretty good at the clip...I love the spanish announcers

jzero
04-23-2011, 07:24 PM
Pachulia may be the biggest ***** in the NBA. I ****ing hate that guy. How do Hawks fans even like him?

because he frustrates howard

ManRam
04-23-2011, 07:33 PM
I liked Zaza when he was a Magic :shrug:

He's a solid player.

goose15
04-23-2011, 07:34 PM
for some reason, Im now a fan of Zaza after watching this :rock:

Bravo95
04-23-2011, 07:55 PM
Z-Pac. The habitual line-stepper! :laugh2:

Lim
04-24-2011, 12:32 AM
thats not a headbutt.. if he wanted to head butt him he wouldve done it, nothing was stopping him they were an inch from each others faces. zaza was just in his face talking ****. as u can see when they get separated zaza is still talking **** and still doing the same head movements, thats just the way he talks **** i guess. no way thats a headbutt tho

northsid3r
04-24-2011, 12:54 AM
this is how 90's basketball used to be, now it's all about crying.

Bulldogs100
04-24-2011, 01:04 AM
Pretty ridiculous that richardson is suspended for slapping a guy... I guess I'll go back to watching the NHL where men are actually allowed to play like men unlike this African handball sport you call basketball

John Walls Era
04-24-2011, 01:26 AM
Why is Pachulia suspended just as long as JRich? Pachulia didn't even use his hands...

Heater4life
04-24-2011, 02:01 AM
Im sorry head butt or not the face is a no fly zone. that little tap to the head would have sent me up a wall. Idk when i saw it on tv i got irritated, i can only imagine in game with adrenaline pumping.

Sportfan
04-24-2011, 02:17 AM
Zaza doesn't take ****, he stood up to KG last year

Raph12
04-24-2011, 02:58 AM
Pachulia may be the biggest ***** in the NBA. I ****ing hate that guy. How do Hawks fans even like him?

x2

One of the dirtiest guys in the league, yet flops all over the court and talks about not backing down lol... I'm so happy he's suspended.

hawks4
04-24-2011, 03:48 AM
x2

One of the dirtiest guys in the league, yet flops all over the court and talks about not backing down lol... I'm so happy he's suspended.

One of the dirtiest players? I would like to hear why you think so. Because he's been in a few scuffles in the past few years? Other than that, Zaza does nothing but use his energy and toughness.

JasonJohnHorn
04-24-2011, 10:33 AM
He was instigating.

Zaza didnt even DO anything. Richardson wasnt even INVOLVED in the play. Richardson got up in his face and slapped him. RICHARDSON was nstigating, Zaza was RESPONDING.

And Zaza had already been intentionally knocked down earlier in the game by Howard, who actually hit him TWICE on a play, the second time harder because Zaza didnt fall down the first time.

Then Howard spears him in the chest with his shoulder and elbows him in the face.

Then, because Howard elbowed Zaza Richardson steps up in his face and slaps him?

Zaza DID NOTHING to deserve a suspension, OR an ejection. Howard and Richardson shoudl have both been ejected (Howard twice earned and ejection in my book, knocking him down first and then elbowing him), and both should have be suspended.

Zaza deserves an award for not going ape $#!T on those to dirty-playing whinners who hate when thigns dont go their way.

Why was richardson even invovled in this?

ManRam
04-24-2011, 10:47 AM
IDK why Richardson got involved. Maybe Zaza said something and J-Rich told him to hush up? IDK. I don't really care (I hate Richardson and am glad he's suspended honestly). He said something, Zaza turned around, got in his face, mad head butt motions AND THEN slapped him.

Assessing blame is like a kindergarten thing to do...they all are at fault. Howard started it with his physical (dirty, if you want to call it that), Zaza started it by making the head butting motions (connecting with at least one), and Richardson escalated it all with the slap.

Again, I think the punishment fit the crimes. How do you feel the punishment should have been doled out?

JasonJohnHorn
04-24-2011, 10:58 AM
These are the game highlights:

http://www.nba.com/playoffs/2011/eastseries4/index.html?ls=st&g=3&t=bs

Seriously WATCH Howard @ 1:28- 1:30. He makes contact with Zaza to push him off, and then when Zaza doesnt move, he knocks him over. CLEAR flagorant there. Only called for a foul. He wasnt even shooting or working for position.

Then the topic we are all debating: @ 2:11/2:12, Howard spear Zaza with his shoulder before Zaza makes contact, then there is the foul by Zaza (not even remotely hard), then if you watch the replay at 2:52, Howard, after the play is done and the foul is called, CLEARLY reaches bask the throw the elbow at Zaza. CLEARLY a flagarant, and HIS SECOND of the night (though only one was called).

Then at 2:57, Richardson BUMPS into Zaza and is yelling at him, Zaza wasnt even looking at him. Zaza is talking DOWN to Richardson, because he's got like 6 inches on the guy. There is no SWING downward, merely Zaza bending his head down as Richardson INVADES HIS SPACE!!! Any contact there is on Richardson for stepping into Zaza's space on a play that didnt even involved him. then at 3:01 (or 2:42) Richardson slaps Zaza, and then pushes him.

So seriosuly. Look at those times, and you tell me honesly that Zaza even remotely deserves a suspension.

Knocked down by Howard. Elbowed by Howard. Body contact made my Richardson who invades Zaza's space and slaps and pushes him, and all Zaza did was talk down to the guy. Did their heads meet? Yeah. Was there a "head butt"? No. No more than there was a 'chest butt' when Richardson walked into Zaza after the play.

you want to see an NBA head butt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz3TqLRALnQ

Rodman pulls his head back and then snaps it forward. That is NOT what happened with Zaza.

Seriously. I am not a Hawks fan. I am not a Magic fan. I dont even remotely care who wins this series. I'm not a Zaza fan, I'm not a Howard fan. I'm just an objective eprson who has watch this play 20 times and CANNOT see how Howard skipped out on a suspension, not understand why the guy who was the victim of at least three flagarant fouls in the course of the game is the one getting suspended.

Seriously.

KnicksR4Real
04-24-2011, 11:06 AM
id say its worse for the magic

KnicksR4Real
04-24-2011, 11:06 AM
also i forgot to mention that zaza started it all. but then again its the playoffs

ManRam
04-24-2011, 11:15 AM
We're watching two different plays. The first foul was more egreggious, I agree with that. Maybe a flagrant. The second one wasn't flagrant-worthy. It was technical worthy, but not a flagrant. He didn't throw an elbow, he pushed him away with his forearm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3XlcEivrk8

This video is far better. Start at 18 seconds. Howard is fouled, is up in the air, and then pushes Zaza away. An elbow is when you **** up and swing the elbow....his arm was fully extended...that's not throwing an elbow. Does Zaza have a right to be mad? Sure, especially after the first foul. Is it a flagrant? No way...and you seem to be in the minority here.

OK, after that...Zaza shows immense frustration, yells something towards the ref, flails his arms. Richardson comes in, maybe only seeing the hard foul on Dwight, and says something. This is at 26 seconds. If you really think Richardson bumped into Zaza, you're watching something different. The first contact the two make is Zaza shoving him lightly with his arm. Richardson clearly is not initiating contact. Then the two get into each other's faces, and that's when Zaza starts bucking his head at him. He CLEARLY connects on the head butt, and that's when everyone swoops it. And that's when Richardson pushes his head away. From that angle, I'm hesitant to even call it a slap. The next angle clearly shows Zaza bucking his head at Richardson three times...and connecting on the third. Dwight and Craw (I think) come in and stop the rest.


http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/sports/topstories/2011/04/23/sp-584zaza.jpg

That's not a head butt?

I'm over arguing this. I call it how I see it, and again, even the Hawks fans here seem to see it as I do.

They're all to blame. Doing the whole "he started it" thing is again like gindergarten. Dwight was getting physical with Zaza, and maybe deserved another tech earlier, but let's not act like Zaza wasn't pounding him on every foul (like that one). Jason shouldn't have said anything, but it was just words until Zaza made it not words. If you want to play "he started it", Zaza's hard foul is what set this play off :shrug: But I don't even care about that....that's childish. They're grown men, and all three didn't act like it.

They're all to blame. And I again ask you, how would all three be punished if you were commish?

A head butt is a head butt. It's funny you're calling THAT and elbow (he didn't connect with elbow, he didn't **** the elbow, he didn't even swing the elbow) but you refuse to call that a head butt. That's irony. I see little difference between Rodman's and this :shrug:

Rivera
04-24-2011, 11:37 AM
first off it was a forearm not an elbow

second he just didnt get a "foul" he got a technical foul

third IMO this will hurt ATL more because its not like j rich has been lighting it up in the playoffs and Q can probably give us the same as Jrich has been giving us so far. Plus Q plays better D

also thats one less big. zaza is known for getting under peoples skin. zaza is the first big man off the bench for collins thats 6 less fouls ATL gets to play with and that means more josh powell more etan thomas more al horford on dwight and i am all for that

m26555
04-24-2011, 12:05 PM
Saying Pachulia didn't headbutt Richardson is absolutely effing ridiculous.

JasonJohnHorn
04-24-2011, 12:15 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3XlcEivrk8
:

Well, regardless of how we see this, the chick in the blue shirt at 0:43-0:45 has GREAT T!T$! And Zebra Print's next to her arent too bad either ;-)

ManRam
04-24-2011, 12:54 PM
Well, regardless of how we see this, the chick in the blue shirt at 0:43-0:45 has GREAT T!T$! And Zebra Print's next to her arent too bad either ;-)

Haha...great find!

pd1dish
04-24-2011, 01:15 PM
i think that Pachulia should have gotten what he got, maybe even plus another game. you dont headbutt somebody. how much of a ***** do you have to be?

as for Richardson, i dont think he shouldve been suspended at all. i think a fine would have been adequate because if ANY player in the NBA (or any person for that matter) gets headbutted 3 times, you are obviously going to retaliate and all Richardson did was shove Pachulia's face away which is just to keep himself from being headbutted again. i know if i were out there and some chump headbutted me, i would have been swinging.

Super.
04-24-2011, 02:30 PM
Why do European people feel the need to headbutt people during sports games?

Germa_Rican
04-24-2011, 02:57 PM
Why do European people feel the need to headbutt people during sports games?

Because we are men.

Why do americans have to slap people ever so gently on the cheek like a girl?

Joking, joking... but on topic; the suspensions are warrented on both sides. No matter what degree of a head but (or no head butt) that was, it looked bad and was an agressive act therefore suspension. Richardson retaliated by slapping Zaza in face therefore suspension. Pretty straight forward in my mind.

hawks4
04-24-2011, 05:43 PM
i think that Pachulia should have gotten what he got, maybe even plus another game. you dont headbutt somebody. how much of a ***** do you have to be?

as for Richardson, i dont think he shouldve been suspended at all. i think a fine would have been adequate because if ANY player in the NBA (or any person for that matter) gets headbutted 3 times, you are obviously going to retaliate and all Richardson did was shove Pachulia's face away which is just to keep himself from being headbutted again. i know if i were out there and some chump headbutted me, i would have been swinging.

He was not headbutted 3 times. It was once. Zaza bucked his head at him twice then headbutted him.

mttwlsn16
04-24-2011, 05:59 PM
lame. its playoffs, tensions are higher, neither player should have been suspended. it really wasnt a big deal

MrfadeawayJB
04-24-2011, 06:00 PM
Normally i hate guys like pachulia, but it is smart for him to try to get under the skin of his opponents. But why jason richardson? He should have tried that with Howard or Jameer Nelson or somone instrumental in the magics success. I mean, the magic have about 3-4 other guys on the roster that can do exactly the same thing J-Rich can. I just dont understand his thinking on that one.

assisi805
04-24-2011, 06:13 PM
gonna be another good game either way.

kblo247
04-24-2011, 08:49 PM
Pachulia may be the biggest ***** in the NBA. I ****ing hate that guy. How do Hawks fans even like him?

Guys can ask us that about Barnes or Sasha before him or Fox way before them tbh.

He is just a guy who takes no **** on the court and plays with such a big chip on his shoulder due to being hungry that he sometimes slips up. You take away that intensity and he loses his effectiveness, and at the same time the team he is on loses a necessary element.