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View Full Version : Biggest Injustice in NBA history ???



bringinwood
04-19-2011, 07:18 AM
I know with the playoffs this thread probably won't get much in the way of action... However, this topic is sort of intriguing to me...

What is the biggest injustice in NBA in terms of awards ??? This could be MVP, NBA 1st team, rookie of the year, etc etc....

This comes on the heals of me looking up the 1961/62 MVP... I cannot believe Wilt Chamberlain wasn't the MVP that season...

He had 50.4 PPG and over 25 boards a game...

Russell won the award with a PPG of 18.9 and grabbing 23 boards a game....

If there is a bigger injustice than that, i'd love to hear it...

bholly
04-19-2011, 08:16 AM
I like that Russell won the MVP that year. That was when the players voted for the MVP, and they gave it to the best player who lead his team to the most wins, and to the championship, beating the Warriors on the way there - rather than the guy with the good stats. I wasn't there to see it, but based on what we know about it I'd say it was a defensible outcome, and am sure there must be bigger injustices than that.

Moving the Sonics will be a popular response, I'm sure. Injuries to guys like Grant Hill were pretty big injustices to anyone who is a fan of the game, but I get the feeling you're talking more about awards, so I really don't know.

JordansBulls
04-19-2011, 08:48 AM
I know with the playoffs this thread probably won't get much in the way of action... However, this topic is sort of intriguing to me...

What is the biggest injustice in NBA in terms of awards ??? This could be MVP, NBA 1st team, rookie of the year, etc etc....

This comes on the heals of me looking up the 1961/62 MVP... I cannot believe Wilt Chamberlain wasn't the MVP that season...

He had 50.4 PPG and over 25 boards a game...

Russell won the award with a PPG of 18.9 and grabbing 23 boards a game....

If there is a bigger injustice than that, i'd love to hear it...

Well if you win MVP and the title that year, I don't see how it is an injustice.

koreancabbage
04-19-2011, 09:07 AM
Well if you win MVP and the title that year, I don't see how it is an injustice.

was the voting for MVP done before the playoffs started?, cuz if that was the case, no one would have known he would win the championship, but come on... 50 ppg :worthy:

IndyRealist
04-19-2011, 12:53 PM
Reggie Miller not being a first ballot hall of famer.

midwestmadman
04-19-2011, 01:23 PM
how about NBA title / Larry O'Brien trophy would that count as an award? Because the 2006 NBA Finals where Wade avg. 22 FT's per game and the Refs handed the Heat an NBA title was the biggest injustice in NBA history, not to mention the worst NBA finals ever seen. What a snore fest, I actually had to shoot herion to wake me up during those games.

I felt Pippen was more deserving in 1994 for league MVP rather than Hakeem Olaijwon. With Jordan gone that team was thought to not be a contender in anyway.

midwestmadman
04-19-2011, 01:26 PM
hey didn't the Bulls sweep the Heat during the regular season.... hummmm odd. Even funnier is your stance that the Bulls get special treatment, like the Heat don't.

Da Knicks
04-19-2011, 01:26 PM
lol at the heat and bulls answers, im going with the alltime injustice kings vs lakers...that was alltime b.s.

Sox72
04-19-2011, 01:28 PM
lol at the heat and bulls answers, im going with the alltime injustice kings vs lakers...that was alltime b.s.

This was my immediate thought. But probably just because of how recent it was. I'm sure there are a lot more that I'm forgetting.

Double_R
04-19-2011, 01:29 PM
How about the fact that TMAC had to play the prime of his career with an injured Grant Hill wasting away money that could have been spent on someone for TMAC to win with. The bottom line is that Grant Hill's selfishness took Tmac's chance at a ring. Then he goes to Houston, where Yao gets hurt and he gets injured as well.

The fact that the Bulls aren't playing the Heat in the 1st round, so we can settle this among these little babyass fans.

The reality is that if MVP voting was done before the playoffs in the season where Wilt was beat by Russell, that is probably the biggest one. The guy had a 100pt game, and avg 50 per.

Some others, the Kings in 02, the Mavs in 06, Kobe 35 per=no MVP

dnewguy
04-19-2011, 01:30 PM
lol at the heat and bulls answers, im going with the alltime injustice kings vs lakers...that was alltime b.s.

That also....lets not forget that most of the refs reside in Chicago, Los Angeles and NY. It's not a coincidence that whenever Phil Jackson reach the finals (either with L A and Chicago) they somehow win. Sacramento outplayed the Lakers but somehow the Kings lose....just like the Pacers are outplaying the Bulls but somehow the Pacers lose.....LOL

midwestmadman
04-19-2011, 01:32 PM
lol at the heat and bulls answers, im going with the alltime injustice kings vs lakers...that was alltime b.s.

Wow, yeah you are right about that one, I take my hat off to you for that!
:clap:

BcEuAbRsS
04-19-2011, 01:36 PM
Just saying, your team should be down 0-2 and not 2-0. The Pacers clearly outplayed you in 2 games but somehow when the refs get involved in the 4th, you win. You know how every product is made in China? The Bulls is "Made by NBA"....that team is not as good as the wins they keep getting, the refs is promoting that team for God knows why.

Where did the refs give the Bulls the game... give specific example and plays from the past two games... please do...

nickdymez
04-19-2011, 01:36 PM
That also....lets not forget that most of the refs reside in Chicago, Los Angeles and NY. It's not a coincidence that whenever Phil Jackson reach the finals (either with L A and Chicago) they somehow win. Sacramento outplayed the Lakers but somehow the Kings lose....just like the Pacers are outplaying the Bulls but somehow the Pacers lose.....LOL

That was one game in that lakers series where the calls were ********. As a laker fan, i'll admit to that. But the next game the kings shot terrible, which we all know has nuttin to do with the refs..

midwestmadman
04-19-2011, 01:39 PM
As much as I dislike Kobe there is no denying that he has achieved more than anyone since MJ. I still don't like the comparisions between the two as they were different players playing in different eras (league rules wise). My feeling is that Jordan is still better than Kobe, but Kobe has damn sure closed that difference with his last two championships of which he no doubt lead to championships, those mean more then the 3 he won with Shaq.

dnewguy
04-19-2011, 01:42 PM
Where did the refs give the Bulls the game... give specific example and plays from the past two games... please do...

The Bulls defense is foul plagued with no calls. If people keep fouling you and the refs don't call anything you get discouraged. Just look how many times Rose fouled the Pacers pg while trying to block jump shots, no call. Then watch Rose run into anyone and he gets the call. Rose has been carrying the ball like crazy but all I get is "it's the NBA", why do everyone complain about Lebron crab dribble but people seem to think Rose carrying the ball and travelling is ok? The excuse I keep hearing is that Rose is too fast and the refs cant see.....GIVE ME A BREAK.

In game 1, the Pacers got fouled on almost every possession when they were up 10, but no call....the refs were busy helping Rose and the Bulls with a comeback. LOL

That game 1 was a total rape, last night was a fraud.

spurs4#5
04-19-2011, 01:42 PM
how about the laker spurs series where derek fisher mugged brent barry on a 3 point shot and nothing was called!!!

Raph12
04-19-2011, 01:46 PM
The lack of respect for Dwight Howard...

Rentzias
04-19-2011, 01:47 PM
I don't think ref calls should be in the discussion. Bad calls happen all the time, it's a spur of the moment, highly subjective occurrence. Your sample size is one second.

Now arguing awards, maybe overpayment/underpayment, punishments for violations, etc., is more along the line of "injustice."

Rentzias
04-19-2011, 01:47 PM
The lack of respect for Dwight Howard...

Three consecutive DPOY says otherwise?

Hellcrooner
04-19-2011, 01:48 PM
offensive foul on B Russell that does not get called and costs jazz a ring instead of having to play a game 7.

mdm692
04-19-2011, 01:48 PM
Injustice is the suns not winnin a champiionship and the fact that everytime we play the spurs we get raped by the officials exception last year

BcEuAbRsS
04-19-2011, 01:48 PM
The Bulls defense is foul plagued with no calls. If people keep fouling you and the refs don't call anything you get discouraged. Just look how many times Rose fouled the Pacers pg while trying to block jump shots, no call. Then watch Rose run into anyone and he gets the call. Rose has been carrying the ball like crazy but all I get is "it's the NBA", why do everyone complain about Lebron crab dribble but people seem to think Rose carrying the ball and travelling is ok? The excuse I keep hearing is that Rose is too fast and the refs cant see.....GIVE ME A BREAK.

In game 1, the Pacers got fouled on almost every possession when they were up 10, but no call....the refs were busy helping Rose and the Bulls with a comeback. LOL

That game 1 was a total rape, last night was a fraud.

Nobody has said any of that garbage to you... you make ridiculus claims and wont provide specific plays... Im not sure why ur bitter considering the Heat are playing well but congrats, u will be the first ever on my ignore list... I simply dont wanna read ur crap and ******** anymore...

midwestmadman
04-19-2011, 01:50 PM
Where did the refs give the Bulls the game... give specific example and plays from the past two games... please do...

Get used to not getting answered, if you call danewguy out he runs and hides, hey kind of like Bosh! Anyway if you do respond danewguy, I am still awaiting your response to my question. You mention how the Bulls get all the calls, have you ever actually watched a Heat game?
You want to talk terrible calls, you should have lost to the Pistons in Miami when with less than 3 seconds to play a shot from Eddie House is cleanly blocked in the lane there is no body contact and no one on Detroit touched his wrist arm elbow or anything else. The whistle blows, and Eddie House hits 2 free throws and wins the game.
Now we all know bad calls get made from time to time, but under what circumstances other than playing for the Heat does Eddie House get that call? If we want to complain about Rose getting foul calls going his way remember he is also a superstar and about to be the league MVP, he is going to get the benefit of close calls, much the same way LeBron, Wade, and Bosh and now apparently House gets the same benefits you whine about.

Raph12
04-19-2011, 01:55 PM
Three consecutive DPOY says otherwise?

Lack of respect from the refs, from the media, from the fans, etc... Three consecutive DPOYs doesn't mean ****, who else could they give it to?

dnewguy
04-19-2011, 01:55 PM
Nobody has said any of that garbage to you... you make ridiculus claims and wont provide specific plays... Im not sure why ur bitter considering the Heat are playing well but congrats, u will be the first ever on my ignore list... I simply dont wanna read ur crap and ******** anymore...

If yoi cant handle the Heat, get out of the kitchen. I have had Bulls mods already PM me to stop....but when y'all out there bashing the Heat, everyone laughs about it. The hypocrisy on this forum is alarming.

midwestmadman
04-19-2011, 02:03 PM
^ I am not reporting you just as an FYI, I don't dime, however you are wrong and you are whinning about things that your team is the most guilty of. If any teams gets the benefits of calls it's the Heat, you have every media outlet, and even Stern sucking your teams d*&^ yet you act like the league and the refs are out to get the Heat, if anything, the same refs you are bashing, will besure that your make shift team makes it to the ECF at the very least.

Rentzias
04-19-2011, 02:05 PM
Lack of respect from the refs, from the media, from the fans, etc... Three consecutive DPOYs doesn't mean ****, who else could they give it to?

Refs: Howard in Top 3 of personal fouls once during the past three seasons.
Media: DPOY is voted on by media.
Fans: 1st in all-star voting in '09, 3rd in '10, 2nd this year.

midwestmadman
04-19-2011, 02:05 PM
Awwww, did he leave now? He never answered my questions... what a shocker.

Hellcrooner
04-19-2011, 02:08 PM
Media votes awards, is expectable that they are unfair.
I think Players should be the ones voting.

BcEuAbRsS
04-19-2011, 02:08 PM
Refs: Howard in Top 3 of personal fouls once during the past three seasons.
Media: DPOY is voted on by media.
Fans: 1st in all-star voting in '09, 3rd in '10, 2nd this year.

:laugh2:

Sergio1984
04-19-2011, 02:09 PM
Let's stay on the topic guys, let him dig his own grave.

BcEuAbRsS
04-19-2011, 02:14 PM
My personal biggest injustice is the way Iverson went away with nobody wanting him... it makes me sad...

Rentzias
04-19-2011, 02:15 PM
Media votes awards, is expectable that they are unfair.
I think Players should be the ones voting.

I don't disagree. I just don't think "D. Howard Lack of Respect" is a top contender for "Injustice in NBA History"

The list is essentially getting petty and trivial.

The Bradley
04-19-2011, 02:18 PM
Injustice is the suns not winnin a champiionship and the fact that everytime we play the spurs we get raped by the officials exception last year

I'm reading "Personal Foul" right now which is the Tim Donaghy (the ref that got caught gambling) book. One of the stories he tells in it is how most of the refs hate the owner of the Suns and will have calls go against the Suns to try to stick it to him.

midwestmadman
04-19-2011, 02:18 PM
ok, well I guess this topic is done then.....

To recap my vote was for a tie on the 06 Finals where the refs gave the Heat a title, the Kings / Lakers series in 2002, for individual awards Pippen getting snubbed for the 1994 league MVP

Cano4prez
04-19-2011, 02:19 PM
2002 wcf

AIMelo=KillaDUO
04-19-2011, 02:29 PM
"An injustice anywhere, is an in injustice. Anywhere." -R. Kelly

Mc Lovin
04-19-2011, 02:33 PM
I know with the playoffs this thread probably won't get much in the way of action... However, this topic is sort of intriguing to me...

What is the biggest injustice in NBA in terms of awards ??? This could be MVP, NBA 1st team, rookie of the year, etc etc....

This comes on the heals of me looking up the 1961/62 MVP... I cannot believe Wilt Chamberlain wasn't the MVP that season...

He had 50.4 PPG and over 25 boards a game...

Russell won the award with a PPG of 18.9 and grabbing 23 boards a game....

If there is a bigger injustice than that, i'd love to hear it...


Yeah but you gotta remember that when Russell and Chamberlain went head to head Bill Russell dominated him almost every time. Also I'm pretty sure they didn't keep blocks and steals as statistics back then but Bill Russell was a defensive beast. He would block the shot and keep it in bounds so he could recover the ball instead of knocking it into the stands and giving it right back to the opposing team. He was one of the smartest players to ever play in the NBA and one of the best defenders of all time too.

llemon
04-19-2011, 02:36 PM
I know with the playoffs this thread probably won't get much in the way of action... However, this topic is sort of intriguing to me...

What is the biggest injustice in NBA in terms of awards ??? This could be MVP, NBA 1st team, rookie of the year, etc etc....

This comes on the heals of me looking up the 1961/62 MVP... I cannot believe Wilt Chamberlain wasn't the MVP that season...

He had 50.4 PPG and over 25 boards a game...

Russell won the award with a PPG of 18.9 and grabbing 23 boards a game....

If there is a bigger injustice than that, i'd love to hear it...

Wilt was the player of the year.

Russell was the MVP.

And I'm a Wilt fan.

Hangtime
04-19-2011, 02:38 PM
Yeah but you gotta remember that when Russell and Chamberlain went head to head Bill Russell dominated him almost every time. Also I'm pretty sure they didn't keep blocks and steals as statistics back then but Bill Russell was a defensive beast. He would block the shot and keep it in bounds so he could recover the ball instead of knocking it into the stands and giving it right back to the opposing team. He was one of the smartest players to ever play in the NBA and one of the best defenders of all time too.

What? Thats not true. Russell did not dominate Wilt head 2 head.

llemon
04-19-2011, 02:41 PM
As a fan, I feel the greatest injustice happened when Nets sold Julius to the Sixers.

Hangtime
04-19-2011, 02:45 PM
Russell probably had more respect from the players in the league that year for his defensive intensity and being the ultimate team player. They believed him to be the best player for his abilty to make the team overall better during the season. No knock on Chamderlain because he simply did what his coach wanted him to do. Be the most dominant scorer in the league since no one could match him one on one. But he blocked shots, rebounded, and defended just as much as Russell.

llemon
04-19-2011, 02:52 PM
Russell probably had more respect from the players in the league that year for his defensive intensity and being the ultimate team player. They believed him to be the best player for his abilty to make the team overall better during the season. No knock on Chamderlain because he simply did what his coach wanted him to do. Be the most dominant scorer in the league since no one could match him one on one. But he blocked shots, rebounded, and defended just as much as Russell.

Wilt started getting serious about defense around '65-'66.

llemon
04-19-2011, 02:54 PM
Reggie Miller not being a first ballot hall of famer.

I couldn't believe that either

Heater4life
04-19-2011, 02:57 PM
ok, well I guess this topic is done then.....

To recap my vote was for a tie on the 06 Finals where the refs gave the Heat a title, the Kings / Lakers series in 2002, for individual awards Pippen getting snubbed for the 1994 league MVP

Im assuming Gary Payton hitting a shot with time winding down to send game 3 to OT was the refs fault? Or how about J.Howard calling the teams last timeout in between free throws, when they could have had a set play from mid court to tie or win the game?

:rolleyes:

cooldavid3169
04-19-2011, 03:00 PM
how about NBA title / Larry O'Brien trophy would that count as an award? Because the 2006 NBA Finals where Wade avg. 22 FT's per game and the Refs handed the Heat an NBA title was the biggest injustice in NBA history, not to mention the worst NBA finals ever seen. What a snore fest, I actually had to shoot herion to wake me up during those games.

I felt Pippen was more deserving in 1994 for league MVP rather than Hakeem Olaijwon. With Jordan gone that team was thought to not be a contender in anyway.
I'm a huge Heat fan, but honestly I'm not big on Wade thou. The issue I have with your argument is that no one could guard or stop him like D. Rose this year. Wade was too fast and could get to the rim and they fouled him. It is what it is if Dirk could drive and get fouled or pull a Durant draw the contact it would have been a different story.

llemon
04-19-2011, 03:00 PM
How about the fact that TMAC had to play the prime of his career with an injured Grant Hill wasting away money that could have been spent on someone for TMAC to win with. The bottom line is that Grant Hill's selfishness took Tmac's chance at a ring. Then he goes to Houston, where Yao gets hurt and he gets injured as well.

Grant Hill's selfishness??????? What the hell does that mean?

Hangtime
04-19-2011, 03:02 PM
Wilt started getting serious about defense around '65-'66.

Just because his defense improved dramatically because he begin to focus more on it as a 76er doesnt mean he didn't play defense at all in his early years.

llemon
04-19-2011, 03:10 PM
Just because his defense improved dramatically because he begin to focus more on it as a 76er doesnt mean he didn't play defense at all in his early years.

He wasn't that interested, and certainly was nowhere near Russell's level.

He did block a lot of shots, but his footwork and agility were just not close to Russell's on defense.

Double_R
04-19-2011, 03:13 PM
Refs: Howard in Top 3 of personal fouls once during the past three seasons.
Media: DPOY is voted on by media.
Fans: 1st in all-star voting in '09, 3rd in '10, 2nd this year.

While I don't think it's anywhere near the biggest injustice, your examples are not accurate as to why he is respected.

Refs: Howard in Top 3 of personal fouls once during the past three seasons.
Seriously with that one: He is the biggest, most athletic guy in the NBA, and he doesn't shoot free throws well; once he gets position, he is instantly fouled. He is fouled more than anyone, but he also has less calls go his way than most superstars.

Media: DPOY is voted on by media.
Really, who else are they gonna vote for??? He is clearly the best defensive player in the NBA, it's not even up for debate says the 2 pts in defensive win shares that he leads the NBA with or his 94 DRTG, and the Magic and their top 5 defense year in and year out without any other good defenders on the team. (Pietrus, Barnes only 2 above average)

Fans: 1st in all-star voting in '09, 3rd in '10, 2nd this year.
THis is the same as the last one, kinda speaks for itself. Center, unlike other positions, there is one person that everyone is going to vote for. Example, at forward, you might have someone vote for Lebron and Bosh, while another person votes for Amare and Melo. Who else are they gonna vote for??? Bogut, Noah, over Dwight, hahaha.

Double_R
04-19-2011, 03:17 PM
Grant Hill's selfishness??????? What the hell does that mean?

That means that Grant Hill should have retired and came back if he wanted to play instead of wasting all the money that could have been used on other players coming to the Magic. Grant Hill wasn't some story of perseverance, it was a story of him counting money while the Magic were stuck with his massive contract. Bottom line is that Tmac was stuck without anyone else to play with because the Magic's second max contract was used on someone who barely played. Then when he got healthy, he left the Magic for a million more than they could have offered him. Guy is a douche.

llemon
04-19-2011, 03:24 PM
That means that Grant Hill should have retired and came back if he wanted to play instead of wasting all the money that could have been used on other players coming to the Magic. Grant Hill wasn't some story of perseverance, it was a story of him counting money while the Magic were stuck with his massive contract. Bottom line is that Tmac was stuck without anyone else to play with because the Magic's second max contract was used on someone who barely played. Then when he got healthy, he left the Magic for a million more than they could have offered him. Guy is a douche.

WOW!!!! That is one really sick interpretation of what happened.

If you are representative of what Tract McGrady fans are like, makes me glad that Crybaby Tracy never got out of the first round.

Rentzias
04-19-2011, 03:45 PM
While I don't think it's anywhere near the biggest injustice, your examples are not accurate as to why he is respected.

Refs: Howard in Top 3 of personal fouls once during the past three seasons.
Seriously with that one: He is the biggest, most athletic guy in the NBA, and he doesn't shoot free throws well; once he gets position, he is instantly fouled. He is fouled more than anyone, but he also has less calls go his way than most superstars.

Media: DPOY is voted on by media.
Really, who else are they gonna vote for??? He is clearly the best defensive player in the NBA, it's not even up for debate says the 2 pts in defensive win shares that he leads the NBA with or his 94 DRTG, and the Magic and their top 5 defense year in and year out without any other good defenders on the team. (Pietrus, Barnes only 2 above average)

Fans: 1st in all-star voting in '09, 3rd in '10, 2nd this year.
THis is the same as the last one, kinda speaks for itself. Center, unlike other positions, there is one person that everyone is going to vote for. Example, at forward, you might have someone vote for Lebron and Bosh, while another person votes for Amare and Melo. Who else are they gonna vote for??? Bogut, Noah, over Dwight, hahaha.

Excellent work. Just did minor research to somewhat indicate that this is not on the "greatest injustice" list. That's all. I'll just wait for another person to quote me and say stuff about Dwight Howard when I feel neutral toward the guy.

kilgore2345
04-19-2011, 03:54 PM
Refs: Howard in Top 3 of personal fouls once during the past three seasons.
Seriously with that one: He is the biggest, most athletic guy in the NBA, and he doesn't shoot free throws well; once he gets position, he is instantly fouled. He is fouled more than anyone, but he also has less calls go his way than most superstars.


I can see your argument except for the fact that he has led the league in FTA 3 times (2007-08, 2008-09, 2010-11), and finished in the top ten in FTA EVERY YEAR HE HAS PLAYED (10th in 2005-06 [Rookie season], 4th in 2006-07, 2nd in 2009-10). What more do you want? A foul every single time he has the ball?

Give us an objective analysis of how he gets less calls than other superstars.

Hangtime
04-19-2011, 03:58 PM
He wasn't that interested, and certainly was nowhere near Russell's level.

He did block a lot of shots, but his footwork and agility were just not close to Russell's on defense.

Not really arguing for his defense over Russell. I am saying he was still as impactful on defense and probably the top two of that time along with Russell even as a Warrior. Could he have been better? Yes. But at the time his coach wanted him to be more of a offensive force for the success of his team. Which is why in 62 he was avg an astronomical 50ppg. Russell focused more on defense all his career. Chamberlain focused more on offense as a result until his later years as a 76er.

arkanian215
04-19-2011, 03:59 PM
That means that Grant Hill should have retired and came back if he wanted to play instead of wasting all the money that could have been used on other players coming to the Magic. Grant Hill wasn't some story of perseverance, it was a story of him counting money while the Magic were stuck with his massive contract. Bottom line is that Tmac was stuck without anyone else to play with because the Magic's second max contract was used on someone who barely played. Then when he got healthy, he left the Magic for a million more than they could have offered him. Guy is a douche.

I'm sure you would've opted out/got bought out/retired if you were in Hill's situation.

Double_R
04-19-2011, 04:08 PM
WOW!!!! That is one really sick interpretation of what happened.

If you are representative of what Tract McGrady fans are like, makes me glad that Crybaby Tracy never got out of the first round.

I'm not a fan of Grant Hill and no I am not sure what I would have done if I were in his situation, but he did waste the best years of Tmac's career regardless of it being his fault or not; it's still an injustice.

As to it being "sick", I am not sure the reference that makes it "sick", but either way I have met him several times and the dude sucks.

monty77
04-19-2011, 04:09 PM
A player like Kobe only have 2 mvp in this career...

Last year Celtics not win nba... They were better than lakers, but referees..

dtmagnet
04-19-2011, 04:11 PM
The beer prices at the games.

llemon
04-19-2011, 04:11 PM
Not really arguing for his defense over Russell. I am saying he was still as impactful on defense and probably the top two of that time along with Russell even as a Warrior. Could he have been better? Yes. But at the time his coach wanted him to be more of a offensive force for the success of his team. Which is why in 62 he was avg an astronomical 50ppg. Russell focused more on defense all his career. Chamberlain focused more on offense as a result until his later years as a 76er.



No disrespect intended, but what gives you the impression that Wilt listened to his coach?

Hangtime
04-19-2011, 04:15 PM
I don't recall any game I ever saw being as horrifly officiated as game 6 LA vs Sac in 2002. You knew somebody was gettin paid when that game ended.

ewing
04-19-2011, 04:19 PM
Im assuming Gary Payton hitting a shot with time winding down to send game 3 to OT was the refs fault? Or how about J.Howard calling the teams last timeout in between free throws, when they could have had a set play from mid court to tie or win the game?

:rolleyes:

I think he was actually refering to the 5 foot radius around Wade that defenders were not allowed to enter

Double_R
04-19-2011, 04:28 PM
I think he was actually refering to the 5 foot radius around Wade that defenders were not allowed to enter

You must be talking about the Mavs series. Didn't Wade take more free throws than the entire Mavs team, just kidding, but seriously he did.

Raph12
04-19-2011, 04:30 PM
Refs: Howard in Top 3 of personal fouls once during the past three seasons.
Media: DPOY is voted on by media.
Fans: 1st in all-star voting in '09, 3rd in '10, 2nd this year.

Refs: 765 fouls & yet 0 flagarants for opposing players who constantly grab him above the shoulders, yet 23 techs called against D12
Media: 0 talk for any game he's had this season; in comparison Rose, Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Knicks, etc get all of the talk
Fans: Center position is extremely weak leading to ballotting totals, still doesn't get credited as the best big in the league by most

That arguement was extremely weak, try again.

cypherthor
04-19-2011, 04:38 PM
Since 1986 when I started watching basketball frequently:

Kobe getting 1 MVP award.

Nobody wanting iverson.

What lebron did to cleveland.

The knicks/heat series suspensions after brown body slammed ward.

Sam Bowie getting injured after portland did not pick jordan at #2 and ending up with nothing.

Hangtime
04-19-2011, 04:39 PM
No disrespect intended, but what gives you the impression that Wilt listened to his coach?

Although he was difficult to coach for most, it was the coaches who were strongwilled to deal with him and thus earned his respect. Alex Hannum and Bill Sharman were able to do this. Wilt never had the stability of a Red Auerbach early in his career. He would of had it with Phog Allen had he not retired in college.

Wilt gets that rep of not listening to his coaches because most of those coaches including Van Breda Kolff of the Lakers he simply had bad relationships with. And quite frankly they were jokes. He is really no different than big time superstars today who have had timultuous relationships with bad coaches.

JordansBulls
04-19-2011, 04:39 PM
was the voting for MVP done before the playoffs started?, cuz if that was the case, no one would have known he would win the championship, but come on... 50 ppg :worthy:

No, but we are looking in hindsight and it was justified that Russell win MVP when he won the title that year.

heyman321
04-19-2011, 04:48 PM
Mavericks getting robbed of the 06 Championship.
The Suns getting robbed of a trip to the Finals in 07.
Kobe not getting MVP in 06.
Keith Bogans getting drafted into the NBA.

llemon
04-19-2011, 04:53 PM
Although he was difficult to coach for most, it was the coaches who were strongwilled to deal with him and thus earned his respect. Alex Hannum and Bill Sharman were able to do this. Wilt never had the stability of a Red Auerbach early in his career. He would of had it with Phog Allen had he not retired in college.

Wilt gets that rep of not listening to his coaches because most of those coaches including Van Breda Kolff of the Lakers he simply had bad relationships with. And quite frankly they were jokes. He is really no different than big time superstars today who have had timultuous relationships with bad coaches.

Okay, I'd like to end the back and forth.

Wilt was special, had an incredibly big ego that was also very fragile, and could be quite bullheaded, and never really had a passion for the game, nor did he have a mean streak, which was taken advantage of.

He was certainly one of the best, if not the best NBA player of all time, but he was never a leader, on or off the court. Wilt was just an unusual case.

You see things the way you see them, and I have my opinion.

Shall we let it rest at that?

Hangtime
04-19-2011, 04:54 PM
No, but we are looking in hindsight and it was justified that Russell win MVP when he won the title that year.

He is asking why it was justified given the regular season individual results for both players. Since they don't choose regular season MVP's based on playoff outcomes.

Iggz53
04-19-2011, 05:01 PM
lol at the heat and bulls answers, im going with the alltime injustice kings vs lakers...that was alltime b.s.

This.

KingsPhillies
04-19-2011, 05:07 PM
Being that I'm a Kings fan...I think you can all guess which injustice I believe to be the most egregious.

Swashcuff
04-19-2011, 05:08 PM
The disrespect of Allen Iverson.

Hellcrooner
04-19-2011, 05:10 PM
mmm im thinking one of the unfairest thing is Seattle being robbed their team .

llemon
04-19-2011, 05:12 PM
The disrespect of Allen Iverson.

Come on. Iverson worked VERY, VERY hard to earn that disrespect.

You get what you earn.

Hangtime
04-19-2011, 05:12 PM
Okay, I'd like to end the back and forth.

Wilt was special, had an incredibly big ego that was also very fragile, and could be quite bullheaded, and never really had a passion for the game, nor did he have a mean streak, which was taken advantage of.

He was certainly one of the best, if not the best NBA player of all time, but he was never a leader, on or off the court. Wilt was just an unusual case.

You see things the way you see them, and I have my opinion.

Shall we let it rest at that?

I don't think you and I are really disagreeing here? We both know he had his flaws. He wasn't anything mentally close to Bill Russell. But it didn't help that his situation with the lack of stronger coaches and better systems that could have made him mentally better as a player as well as individual. He needed that guidance being such a unique and gifted player.

However Wilt is accountable for himself. Anyways this is getting off topic. So we can leave it alone.

Swashcuff
04-19-2011, 05:18 PM
Come on. Iverson worked VERY, VERY hard to earn that disrespect.

You get what you earn.

Not serious dude. I am a huge fan but he did bring a ton of it upon himself.

bklynny67
04-19-2011, 05:22 PM
how about the fact that the NBA is fixed nowadays.

its all about marketing now. and they do everything possible to get the star players and teams deep into the playoffs and also help stars win contests.

Griffin being pushed into the finals and winning with a lame dunk over half the hood of a ****ing Kia... any player who can dunk can do that.... now they have a commercial with that dunk advertising the Kia... don't tell me this wasn't predetermined. he was the least impressive dunker that night.

and all the damn "star" calls that the superstar players always get... guys not even getting touched and fouls being called, and other lower level players don't get the same calls. its ******** and its ruining the game. and high profile teams getting all the calls late in games, especially in the playoffs. this year already the Knicks and Pacers have been screwed over.

these are the biggest injustices to me. NBA is fixed. and reading these boards, there's a lot of people who would agree, and its not just fans from the teams i referred to.

rhino17
04-19-2011, 05:25 PM
the Jazz going to the 1997 NBA finals on a completely blatant offensive foul

sep11ie
04-19-2011, 05:38 PM
Yao Ming not having bionic legs.
Chuck Hayes only being 5'9".
My dad Shawn Kemp not ever talking to me.
Jordan going to Washington.
Reggie Miller not ever getting braces.

nolin
04-19-2011, 05:43 PM
king leaving arco arena alltime injustice to all the great fans of sactown

DeadlyVeyerus31
04-19-2011, 05:49 PM
After reading this article, looks like Wilt dominated Russell individually. Russell had a better team around him.

http://hoopedia.nba.com/index.php?title=Russell_vs._Wilt

bringinwood
04-19-2011, 05:59 PM
After reading this article, looks like Wilt dominated Russell individually. Russell had a better team around him.

http://hoopedia.nba.com/index.php?title=Russell_vs._Wilt

Wilt's 61/62 campaign is arguably the best individual statistical season in NBA history....

To say, regardless of who won the championship, that he wasn't deserving of the MVP is absolute insanity...

KingsPhillies
04-19-2011, 07:04 PM
king leaving arco arena alltime injustice to all the great fans of sactown

It may seem inevitable, but it's not a done deal just yet. If it does happen, I will wholeheartedly agree with you. Until then, us Kings fans refuse to give up hope.

But I have to admit, the Kings do need to leave Arco...but not until we get a new arena built in Sacramento. :D

knightstemplar
04-19-2011, 07:16 PM
how about the laker spurs series where derek fisher mugged brent barry on a 3 point shot and nothing was called!!!

what happened in game 5?

oh yeah, kobe closed your team out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv_wKwanldc&feature=player_detailpage#t=220s

knightstemplar
04-19-2011, 07:18 PM
Being that I'm a Kings fan...I think you can all guess which injustice I believe to be the most egregious.

what happened in game 7?

The Bradley
04-19-2011, 07:57 PM
what happened in game 7?

They had a horrible free throw shooting night and lost in overtime. What happened in game 6?

IBleedPurple
04-20-2011, 04:01 AM
The lack of respect for Dwight Howard...

No, just no.

He gets plenty of calls. Not to mention, 50% of his offensive game (at least) is bowling into someone in the paint, wrestling with them, ending up 3 feet from the basket, and scoring.

He should foul out nearly every game just from offensive fouls. He is great, works incredibly hard, but the crap he gets away with is just stupid.

Raph12
04-20-2011, 04:19 AM
No, just no.

He gets plenty of calls. Not to mention, 50% of his offensive game (at least) is bowling into someone in the paint, wrestling with them, ending up 3 feet from the basket, and scoring.

He should foul out nearly every game just from offensive fouls. He is great, works incredibly hard, but the crap he gets away with is just stupid.

You are what's wrong with the NBA today, a soft fan wanting for the league to be just as soft as you are. We all watched Shaq offensive foul the crap out of each and every defender on his way to all three titles but looked the other way, now that there is another dominant center doing the same, you want it to be stopped lol... I was talking in terms of respect from the league, fans and media, but I do think the refs need to call more flagarants on his defenders.

Bulls_fan90
04-20-2011, 04:24 AM
The Sac/Lakers playoff series comes to mind.

Also Refs + the Heat in the 2006 finals vs Dallas.

jzero
04-20-2011, 05:10 AM
how about NBA title / Larry O'Brien trophy would that count as an award? Because the 2006 NBA Finals where Wade avg. 22 FT's per game and the Refs handed the Heat an NBA title was the biggest injustice in NBA history, not to mention the worst NBA finals ever seen. What a snore fest, I actually had to shoot herion to wake me up during those games.

I felt Pippen was more deserving in 1994 for league MVP rather than Hakeem Olaijwon. With Jordan gone that team was thought to not be a contender in anyway.

or maybe the mavs just cant win :)

Crackadalic
04-20-2011, 08:08 AM
Im I the only one who feels that nba refs are no different then the refs at the wwe? When you think about it wtf is a superstar call? Why can't everyone be foul fairly and all that?

I still want to know what is the criteria of a MVP because that ish change every year and there has been a lot of injustice in that department

All of the older refs like Joe Crawford, that other Crawford guy and Dick Bavette needs to be gone. There in the same class as Tim Donaghy and boy have there been some bs calls when those guys ref those series(Lakers/Kings 02, Spurs/Suns 07)

JasonJohnHorn
04-20-2011, 09:31 AM
Well... I mean, Russell's team beat Chamberlain in the playoffs. And they had a better record. That said Kareem won the MVP in a season where his team didnt even make the playoffs.

This is why they need two awards. MVP (the player who was most valuable to his, who helped them win and who they depended on) and the MOP (most outstanding player, for the player who produces the most impressive numbers, or has the most impressive personal stats).

There are two ways to vote on the MVP, and in turn, you get a lot of odd choices.



I honestly can think of an instance where there wasnt an arguement to be made for a player getting a certain award or being named to a certain team. These are subjective issues.

Rentzias
04-20-2011, 09:39 AM
Refs: 765 fouls & yet 0 flagarants for opposing players who constantly grab him above the shoulders, yet 23 techs called against D12
Media: 0 talk for any game he's had this season; in comparison Rose, Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Knicks, etc get all of the talk
Fans: Center position is extremely weak leading to ballotting totals, still doesn't get credited as the best big in the league by most

That arguement was extremely weak, try again.

Ok, I'll try again.

This is not a all time greatest injustice in the history of the NBA.

There.

JJ81
04-20-2011, 10:27 AM
This comes on the heals of me looking up the 1961/62 MVP... I cannot believe Wilt Chamberlain wasn't the MVP that season...

He had 50.4 PPG and over 25 boards a game...

Russell won the award with a PPG of 18.9 and grabbing 23 boards a game....

If there is a bigger injustice than that, i'd love to hear it...

What were their team's records like?

jezzyman05
04-20-2011, 10:48 AM
how about the fact that the NBA is fixed nowadays.

its all about marketing now. and they do everything possible to get the star players and teams deep into the playoffs and also help stars win contests.

Griffin being pushed into the finals and winning with a lame dunk over half the hood of a ****ing Kia... any player who can dunk can do that.... now they have a commercial with that dunk advertising the Kia... don't tell me this wasn't predetermined. he was the least impressive dunker that night.

and all the damn "star" calls that the superstar players always get... guys not even getting touched and fouls being called, and other lower level players don't get the same calls. its ******** and its ruining the game. and high profile teams getting all the calls late in games, especially in the playoffs. this year already the Knicks and Pacers have been screwed over.

these are the biggest injustices to me. NBA is fixed. and reading these boards, there's a lot of people who would agree, and its not just fans from the teams i referred to.

The biggest injustice I have ever seen only took .4 seconds


in case you guys forgot....

One of Fisher's finest playoff moments came in Game 5 (May 13, 2004) of the 2004 Western Conference semi-finals between the Lakers and the defending champion San Antonio Spurs. The series was tied 2–2, and Game 5 was a closely contested affair. With 11 seconds remaining, Kobe Bryant hit a jump shot to put the Lakers up 72–71. Tim Duncan then made an 18-foot shot in double coverage despite falling away from the basket to give the Spurs a 73–72 lead with 0.4 seconds on the clock.

To devise strategies, three consecutive time-outs were called: the first by the Lakers, the second by San Antonio to set up the defense, and the last by the Lakers to re-set up the offense. When the game resumed, Gary Payton inbounded the ball to Fisher, who managed to catch, turn, and shoot the game-winning basket all in 0.4 seconds.


The injustice to this is that it is physically impossible to catch a ball, turn and shoot the ball in .4 seconds, at the time the refs deemded it a good, 2 years later it was revealed that the shot was indeed invalid.....

koLohe2133
04-20-2011, 11:15 AM
Derrick coleman's apathy...

Latrell sprewell only making $14 million a year

Sam cassel's dome



Seriously, the fact that donaghy was the only one caught up...3 of the refs went to high school with him...

Muttman73
04-20-2011, 11:35 AM
Game 6 of the ECF in '94, game stolen from Bulls who lost in 7 to the Knicks who eventually lost in the finals.

Raph12
04-20-2011, 12:45 PM
Ok, I'll try again.

This is not a all time greatest injustice in the history of the NBA.

There.

Much better