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llemon
04-16-2011, 05:27 PM
In the first qtr of the Bulls-Pacers game, was it stated that Rose was only the second player (the other being Oscar R.) to have 2000 pts and 600 assists in a season?

Just asking because that statement would be wrong.

NYKalltheway
04-16-2011, 05:28 PM
I thought Isiah Thomas had that too... Do we include playoffs?

bulldog312
04-16-2011, 05:28 PM
In the first qtr of the Bulls-Pacers game, was it stated that Rose was only the second player (the other being Oscar R.) to have 2000 pts and 600 assists in a season?

Just asking because that statement would be wrong.

It was under a certain age. I believe it was age 23, but I might be wrong.

bosox3431
04-16-2011, 05:36 PM
It was under 23

J-Relo
04-16-2011, 05:36 PM
yea, it has to be under some additional criteria, because there were more players with that, James as an example

Hustlenomics
04-16-2011, 05:37 PM
Iverson was 4 assists away from doing this in the 04-05 season

yoseppii12
04-16-2011, 05:57 PM
Yeah I think its only Rose Lebron and Jordan to do like 2000 pts, 600 assists, and 300 rebounds in a season since the 70s

llemon
04-16-2011, 06:08 PM
Okay, if there was additional criteria, then my point is moot.

THE MTL
04-16-2011, 06:17 PM
In the first qtr of the Bulls-Pacers game, was it stated that Rose was only the second player (the other being Oscar R.) to have 2000 pts and 600 assists in a season?

Just asking because that statement would be wrong.

I was going to say. Lebron James, Allen Iverson, Stephon Marbury are names that pop out of my head and thats just in the modern era

D Roses Bulls
04-16-2011, 06:28 PM
ROSE is a freaking beast

Minimal
04-16-2011, 06:34 PM
LeBron was 23 Assists away of doing that at the age of 19.

DodgerBulls
04-16-2011, 09:11 PM
First is the accomplishment of scoring 2,000 points and 600 assists in a single season. The feat has been accomplished a total 13 times, by five people.

Oscar Robertson did it seven times, Tiny Archibald and John Havlicek twice each. LeBron James and Michael Jordan have each done it once.

On a related note...


If you factor in 300 rebounds, that list gets even smaller. Oscar Robertson's seven times still are on that list. Michael Jordan, LeBron James and John Havlicek are the only others to do that.

Derrick Rose would be the fifth player, and first point guard in history, to accomplish that feat.

Rose's newly acquired ability to make the three-point shot could also be putting him in rare company. With just four more assists, he will become only the fourth player in NBA history to score 1,800 points, make 100 three-point shots and deliver 600 assists in a single season.

Additionally, his ability to block shots is extraordinary for a point guard. With just two more blocked shots he will become the first point guard in NBA history to record 1,800 points, 600 assists and 50 blocks in a single season.

With two more blocks and six more assists, he'll become just the third player in NBA history to amass 1,800 points, 600 assists and 50 blocks.

I think he all got to those stats. I don't think there is an age limit on this one.

D Roses Bulls
04-17-2011, 01:22 AM
On a related note...



I think he all got to those stats. I don't think there is an age limit on this one.

it was by age...... it says it at the beginning of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OrQUXDoVuc

kind of amazing lebron was the most hyped up player ever coming into the draft and he never did it. he was close, but never did it and rose has including the great oscar robertson.

Hawkeye15
04-17-2011, 01:25 AM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&qual=&c1stat=pts&c1comp=gt&c1val=2000&c2stat=ast&c2comp=gt&c2val=600&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=player

it was by age only, there have been others to do it. Shoot, LeBron was only a few assists shy at age 19.

D Roses Bulls
04-17-2011, 01:27 AM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&qual=&c1stat=pts&c1comp=gt&c1val=2000&c2stat=ast&c2comp=gt&c2val=600&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=player

it was by age only, there have been others to do it. Shoot, LeBron was only a few assists shy at age 19.

yeah i know, i was telling him that. someone else posted the stats and we used this in the mvp convo thread. still pretty cool.

Hawkeye15
04-17-2011, 01:28 AM
there was...... it says it at the beginning of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OrQUXDoVuc

kind of amazing lebron was the most hyped up player ever coming into the draft and he never did it. he was close, but never did it and rose has including the great oscar robertson.

sure, but LeBron had an overall game as a 20 year old, that is far better than Rose now

Hawkeye15
04-17-2011, 01:29 AM
yeah i know, i was telling him that. someone else posted the stats and we used this in the mvp convo thread. still pretty cool.

no doubt dude. Rose has been so impressive this year. If he can figure out how to get to the line at a high rate, his efficiency will drive him into the top few players of the NBA

Fnom11
04-17-2011, 01:29 AM
He's so good at breaking down defenses, I really don't understand how he doesn't average at least 10+ assists a game

D Roses Bulls
04-17-2011, 01:30 AM
sure, but LeBron had an overall game as a 20 year old, that is far better than Rose now

yeah he was good, I aint taking nothin away from how good lebron was, but he never did it and never had vdn as coach, lol. plus rose plays the hardest position in basketball. for him to be this good at this age is already scary as hell for the rest of the league.

D Roses Bulls
04-17-2011, 01:33 AM
no doubt dude. Rose has been so impressive this year. If he can figure out how to get to the line at a high rate, his efficiency will drive him into the top few players of the NBA

yeah I know, but his efficiency will vary on the upgrades the teams make later. I didn't want boozer. and right now boozer is our second option, if the bulls can get someone to be a first option or even a better second option than boozer, I bet roses efficiency goes through the roof. it's hard to be so efficient when you have to carry the team on offense night in and night out pretty much. even kobe didnt become more efficient till the lakers got gasol.

D Roses Bulls
04-17-2011, 01:34 AM
He's so good at breaking down defenses, I really don't understand how he doesn't average at least 10+ assists a game

because he has to carry a lot of the offense and score a lot. you saw todays game right? thats what it has been like in the majority of the games.

Hawkeye15
04-17-2011, 01:35 AM
yeah he was good, I aint taking nothin away from how good lebron was, but he never did it and never had vdn as coach, lol. plus rose plays the hardest position in basketball. for him to be this good at this age is already scary as hell for the rest of the league.

The league has taken notice. I still don't see Rose being able to surpass LeBron, Dwight, or Durant in his overall play, but that is my opinion.

Rose is going to be better than I thought he would coming in, for sure. I was expecting all star, top 20 player, whatever. But Rose has a drive I didn't notice in college.

SteveNash
04-17-2011, 01:36 AM
Such a meaningless stat.

Same as the Chris Paul one ESPN kept running over about with Paul being the only player to average 20/10 ast in the playoffs.

D Roses Bulls
04-17-2011, 01:40 AM
The league has taken notice. I still don't see Rose being able to surpass LeBron, Dwight, or Durant in his overall play, but that is my opinion.

Rose is going to be better than I thought he would coming in, for sure. I was expecting all star, top 20 player, whatever. But Rose has a drive I didn't notice in college.

he may not be as good as lebron, but I think he will definitely surpass howard and durrant. I dont know if he will, but with his drive, I think it's possible he could be the best player in the league in a couple years, but it just depends on how much he wants it, but we will see.

D Roses Bulls
04-17-2011, 01:42 AM
Such a meaningless stat.

Same as the Chris Paul one ESPN kept running over about with Paul being the only player to average 20/10 ast in the playoffs.

in his career or in a singular year in the playoffs cause if it was in a singular year, paul i believe has only made it out of the first round once, so yeah. that stat would be meaningless and i do mean pauls stat

SteveNash
04-17-2011, 01:55 AM
in his career or in a singular year in the playoffs cause if it was in a singular year, paul i believe has only made it out of the first round once, so yeah. that stat would be meaningless and i do mean pauls stat

It was his whopping 17 games in the playoffs.

DodgerBulls
04-17-2011, 08:59 AM
it was by age...... it says it at the beginning of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OrQUXDoVuc

kind of amazing lebron was the most hyped up player ever coming into the draft and he never did it. he was close, but never did it and rose has including the great oscar robertson.

Yeah, but I was answering regardless the age. Age sometimes is overrated in someways. Some would like to finish college then enter the draft, but some players got drafted during high school.

DodgerBulls
04-17-2011, 09:03 AM
He's so good at breaking down defenses, I really don't understand how he doesn't average at least 10+ assists a game

He has to shoot more and they do extra passes or doing the work themselves.

Hawkeye15
04-17-2011, 10:40 AM
he may not be as good as lebron, but I think he will definitely surpass howard and durrant. I dont know if he will, but with his drive, I think it's possible he could be the best player in the league in a couple years, but it just depends on how much he wants it, but we will see.

i think JB said something a while back I totally agree with regarding Rose. He will not be a top 3 player at any point, but he may have a top 3-5 season here and there. Right now I think Rose has moved into the top 10 players. I think he will move into the top 5 in a couple of years most likely, but passing Dwight and Durant will be difficult, and you have to remember Griffin is going to be coming on strong, and there will be another surprise or two. Obviously with Rose's age, 5-6 years down the line, who knows where he may rank. Wade and LeBron will be well into their 30's, so of the current crop of players, Rose has only Durant and Griffin to deal with if we are trying to take a stab at it now. I am interested to see if Westbrook can get a lot better too. He flies under the radar, but can straight up ball

King Koopa
04-17-2011, 11:11 AM
How about 2100+ points, 550+ rebs, 550+ Ast, at the age of 19? I wonder who's the youngest to do that ever. :eyebrow: Lebron....

adidas2307
04-17-2011, 11:38 AM
He's so good at breaking down defenses, I really don't understand how he doesn't average at least 10+ assists a game

Keith Bogans.

Chronz
04-17-2011, 12:54 PM
Oh feeny, its cute watching you try to use stats to argue any point. These numbers are truly arbitrary

Chronz
04-17-2011, 12:55 PM
Keith Bogans.
Lol good one

DITKA4GOV
04-17-2011, 01:04 PM
Oh feeny, its cute watching you try to use stats to argue any point. These numbers are truly arbitrary
Truly arbitrary.... great point. I mean if only a couple players have done it in history, what a joke. You can always do what one of the previous posters did and lower the minimum amount of assists so we can fit the ring chaser, LBJ on the list. Than It become legit, not arbitrary.

gotoHcarolina52
04-17-2011, 01:08 PM
LeBron was 23 Assists away of doing that at the age of 19.

:speechless:

gotoHcarolina52
04-17-2011, 01:10 PM
How about 2100+ points, 550+ rebs, 550+ Ast, at the age of 19? I wonder who's the youngest to do that ever. :eyebrow: Lebron....

:speechless:

Chronz
04-17-2011, 02:54 PM
Truly arbitrary.... great point. I mean if only a couple players have done it in history, what a joke. You can always do what one of the previous posters did and lower the minimum amount of assists so we can fit the ring chaser, LBJ on the list. Than It become legit, not arbitrary.

This makes zero sense, lowering the limit to fit the criteria you want it to display is what makes it arbitrary. There is no point to these stats, there is no actual analysis in it. For example AI is the only player to lead the league in steals, scoring and hit 100 threes you could probably throw minutes in there and he'd be the only guy on the list. Big whoop, when it comes to stats he's still way down the chain.

I know your trying to portray me as a hater/bron lover but you haven't been here long enough to know when I talk of statistics I speak from the heart, there is nothing else to it than protecting the integrity of the field. These stats are cute and make for fun trivia, but they serve no purpose in actual discussion.

BULLSFAN0810
04-17-2011, 04:33 PM
he may not be as good as lebron, but I think he will definitely surpass howard and durrant. I dont know if he will, but with his drive, I think it's possible he could be the best player in the league in a couple years, but it just depends on how much he wants it, but we will see.

i know ppl will h8 on me, but imo i think Rose is already better...he plays at an impact position and is top 5 ez. and if rose isnt best yet i do believe he will be best next yr for sure. everything this kid said he wanted to accomplish he done it thus far outside of being the best ,in which he stated why not?, and i was bc you play Pg,pgs defer. he said he wanted to be the best and i lol'd until i seen him play,then i took him serious as you all should...he isnt scared of contact can carry a team at PG. ive seen alotta ball and most time a pg drops 30 plus it was mostly streetball or an elite player

D Roses Bulls
04-17-2011, 04:42 PM
i know ppl will h8 on me, but imo i think Rose is already better...he plays at an impact position and is top 5 ez. and if rose isnt best yet i do believe he will be best next yr for sure. everything this kid said he wanted to accomplish he done it thus far outside of being the best ,in which he stated why not?, and i was bc you play Pg,pgs defer. he said he wanted to be the best and i lol'd until i seen him play,then i took him serious as you all should...he isnt scared of contact can carry a team at PG. ive seen alotta ball and most time a pg drops 30 plus it was mostly streetball or an elite player

honestly, I think there is an argument you can make that rose has already surpassed durrant, but the rest I do not know, especially lebron. I know lebron takes plays off and doesn't always play his hardest, but I think if lebron would play hard all the time he would be damn near unstoppable. I don't know if rose will ever be like that, but yeah we shall see.

BULLSFAN0810
04-17-2011, 05:26 PM
honestly, I think there is an argument you can make that rose has already surpassed durrant, but the rest I do not know, especially lebron. I know lebron takes plays off and doesn't always play his hardest, but I think if lebron would play hard all the time he would be damn near unstoppable. I don't know if rose will ever be like that, but yeah we shall see.

i understand what youre saying,but like ive prob posted a zillion times...the 2 most important postions in Ball is PG and C. They are mirror opposites but conduct and orchestrate to get the same result.

Reason Rose>LBJ: A pg has an inherent ability to lead and decide who gets what shoot at what time. A pg penetrates to crate the same cave effect a c would in the post. A pg must know when to score and when to pass and has to balance when to attack . P g must have a legit 15 footer and incredible handles. For a PURE PG it is all mental.

PASSING:LBJ has great handles, great passing ability. Rose has stellar handles and is an great passer also , even though imo Roses greatess weakness is his T.Os and imo LBJ weakness is his ability to make the snap decisions in the weening seconds of a game,or to run an total offense outside of pick and roll,and letting offense flow...too much has to happen with him involved


PASSING=ROSE.



Shooting:A person who ignitiates offense must at times be the first and last shooter when offense is staggnant. He must know when to shoot and when to pass,and must be dependable from 15-18 ft.

Shooting= Lets be real, LBJ jumper has progress little since he joined the NBA, he can hit them but not at a pace to have the ball in his hands to ignitiate offense as much as he does. Rose Jumper his 1st yr or so was terrible...but over the summer it has become much better to force teams to honor it when they b4 went under screens to guard him protecting the rim.

Winner=Rose


Making others better. A key postion when grading any player not only PGs is how welll others become playing with you....People talk LBJ team was bad ...but lets be real, his skill set made Clev put players around him that are spot up shooters,Clev went with the MJ approach,that was a success and bust imo due to LBj not raising his game (shooting deep) so when people satyed at home on shooters making LBj the main scorer he ran outof gas and or if the players werent shooting well Clev suffered. Clev won 60 games so dont talk about team sucked ...bc if it did 60 games wouldnt be an option.

Rose is 41% of offense, he has improved range and consistency. Luol Deng is having his best year playing with Rose. Korver leads NBA in 4th quarter 3% i believe or is it 3 pt scooring in 4th qtr. for aS many shots rOSE TAKES THE OFFENSE RUNS SMOOTH AND HIS TEAM MATES UNDERSTAND EXCEPT HIM BEING MAIN THREAT.

making others better= Rose. The main indicator is no one complains about shots or touches per gm...we have Boozer an scorer and all star..Korver and knock down shooter,and Deng a 20 pt guy and no complaints ...whereas Bosh and Wade had comments about touches


Clutch ...no brainer Rose...all other attribute stated b4 points to rose being clutch.


Im not saying LBj is a bum,what im saying is IMO ill take an pure PG over an Hybrid in LBJ because a pure PG MUST HAVE THE TOTAL PACKAGE WHERAS LBJ SURVIVES OF ATHLETIC ABILITY. The diffrence is rose is just as athletic as LBj but in a smaller frame ...he absorbs contact finishes all the same as LBJ



ROSE IS BETTER BECAUSE HE FITS A TRADITINAL NBA CONCEPT OF TEAM BUT IS STILL SUPERIOR IN ABILITY AND DOESNT CAUSES A SHIFT IN ROLES AS MUCH AS LBJ ....IE ...ON MIA...THEYD PERFER A STAND STILL SHOOTER AT PG BC THEY HAVE TOO MANY HANDS "PETTING THE BALL"

DITKA4GOV
04-17-2011, 09:34 PM
This makes zero sense, lowering the limit to fit the criteria you want it to display is what makes it arbitrary. There is no point to these stats, there is no actual analysis in it. For example AI is the only player to lead the league in steals, scoring and hit 100 threes you could probably throw minutes in there and he'd be the only guy on the list. Big whoop, when it comes to stats he's still way down the chain.

I know your trying to portray me as a hater/bron lover but you haven't been here long enough to know when I talk of statistics I speak from the heart, there is nothing else to it than protecting the integrity of the field. These stats are cute and make for fun trivia, but they serve no purpose in actual discussion.

There is no point in me trying to portray you as a rose hater LBJ lover. You do it yourself. Every rose thread you comment on that I see is pro-heat, anti anything rose. Im sure i could scour the rose threads and quote numerous posts by u that are anti-roseanti-rose. Maybe I haven't been on here long enough, but since I have been a member i have noticed ur negativity on a lot of posts. I think its great rose has all the haters like yourself, it means he is doing something right.
Stats are great, but don't tell the entire story. There is no way to quantify leadership in advanced stats. Stats don't show what rose does for team chemistry vs a Guy like iverson who doesn't want to talk about practice. The grouping used in this post are not as arbitrary as you state in my opinion. If it was LBJ, I'm sure you opinion of how arbitrary they are woulde change as well.

Chronz
04-17-2011, 11:48 PM
There is no point in me trying to portray you as a rose hater LBJ lover. You do it yourself.
This is because rose fans see the truth as hate


Every rose thread you comment on that I see is pro-heat, anti anything rose. Im sure i could scour the rose threads and quote numerous posts by u that are anti-roseanti-rose.
Go for it


Maybe I haven't been on here long enough, but since I have been a member i have noticed ur negativity on a lot of posts. I think its great rose has all the haters like yourself, it means he is doing something right.
So long as you realize you haven't been here long enough to know that when it comes to stats the debate is all about the numbers.



Stats are great, but don't tell the entire story.
Totally irrelevant to the topic at hand. You see this is a thread about rose statistical accomplishment.


There is no way to quantify leadership in advanced stats. Stats don't show what rose does for team chemistry vs a Guy like iverson who doesn't want to talk about practice.
Sadly for you, stats don't show everything about ai either so its a moot point.


The grouping used in this post are not as arbitrary as you state in my opinion. If it was LBJ, I'm sure you opinion of how arbitrary they are woulde change as well.
Then feel free to defend your stance rather than waste time with irrelevant topics. In an argument about stats saying they don't tell the whole story is pointless because the point I'm making is that arbitrary measures tell you even less.

Again your wasting your time attempting to portray me as a bron lover, when it comes to stats there is nothing else to my argument but stats. If you spend some time here you will pick this up, lbj has his fair share of arbitrary measures so guess again

DITKA4GOV
04-18-2011, 08:56 AM
This is because rose fans see the truth as hate


Go for it


So long as you realize you haven't been here long enough to know that when it comes to stats the debate is all about the numbers.



Totally irrelevant to the topic at hand. You see this is a thread about rose statistical accomplishment.


Sadly for you, stats don't show everything about ai either so its a moot point.


Then feel free to defend your stance rather than waste time with irrelevant topics. In an argument about stats saying they don't tell the whole story is plzointless because the point I'm making is that arbitrary measures tell you even less.

Again your wasting your time attempting to portray me as a bron lover, when it comes to stats there is nothing else to my argument but stats. If you spend some time here you will pick this up, lbj has his fair share of arbitrary measures so guess again

From what I have read rose will not win MVP, to he doesn't deserve it, to his MVP year would be one of the worst in history, he doesn't deserve 1st team all-nba, and so on. Which is all fine since this is all your opinion. The media, coaches, current player, former great players, analysts, all disagree with you mostly. Patrolling rose threads to spread ur beliefs is fine with me. Its a message board and we all have our opinion. Just say u hate rose and that rose petals are being thrown at his feet. We all know it already....

gwrighter
04-18-2011, 10:32 AM
i understand what youre saying,but like ive prob posted a zillion times...the 2 most important postions in Ball is PG and C. They are mirror opposites but conduct and orchestrate to get the same result.

Reason Rose>LBJ: A pg has an inherent ability to lead and decide who gets what shoot at what time. A pg penetrates to crate the same cave effect a c would in the post. A pg must know when to score and when to pass and has to balance when to attack . P g must have a legit 15 footer and incredible handles. For a PURE PG it is all mental.

PASSING:LBJ has great handles, great passing ability. Rose has stellar handles and is an great passer also , even though imo Roses greatess weakness is his T.Os and imo LBJ weakness is his ability to make the snap decisions in the weening seconds of a game,or to run an total offense outside of pick and roll,and letting offense flow...too much has to happen with him involved


PASSING=ROSE.



Shooting:A person who ignitiates offense must at times be the first and last shooter when offense is staggnant. He must know when to shoot and when to pass,and must be dependable from 15-18 ft.

Shooting= Lets be real, LBJ jumper has progress little since he joined the NBA, he can hit them but not at a pace to have the ball in his hands to ignitiate offense as much as he does. Rose Jumper his 1st yr or so was terrible...but over the summer it has become much better to force teams to honor it when they b4 went under screens to guard him protecting the rim.

Winner=Rose


Making others better. A key postion when grading any player not only PGs is how welll others become playing with you....People talk LBJ team was bad ...but lets be real, his skill set made Clev put players around him that are spot up shooters,Clev went with the MJ approach,that was a success and bust imo due to LBj not raising his game (shooting deep) so when people satyed at home on shooters making LBj the main scorer he ran outof gas and or if the players werent shooting well Clev suffered. Clev won 60 games so dont talk about team sucked ...bc if it did 60 games wouldnt be an option.

Rose is 41% of offense, he has improved range and consistency. Luol Deng is having his best year playing with Rose. Korver leads NBA in 4th quarter 3% i believe or is it 3 pt scooring in 4th qtr. for aS many shots rOSE TAKES THE OFFENSE RUNS SMOOTH AND HIS TEAM MATES UNDERSTAND EXCEPT HIM BEING MAIN THREAT.

making others better= Rose. The main indicator is no one complains about shots or touches per gm...we have Boozer an scorer and all star..Korver and knock down shooter,and Deng a 20 pt guy and no complaints ...whereas Bosh and Wade had comments about touches


Clutch ...no brainer Rose...all other attribute stated b4 points to rose being clutch.


Im not saying LBj is a bum,what im saying is IMO ill take an pure PG over an Hybrid in LBJ because a pure PG MUST HAVE THE TOTAL PACKAGE WHERAS LBJ SURVIVES OF ATHLETIC ABILITY. The diffrence is rose is just as athletic as LBj but in a smaller frame ...he absorbs contact finishes all the same as LBJ



ROSE IS BETTER BECAUSE HE FITS A TRADITINAL NBA CONCEPT OF TEAM BUT IS STILL SUPERIOR IN ABILITY AND DOESNT CAUSES A SHIFT IN ROLES AS MUCH AS LBJ ....IE ...ON MIA...THEYD PERFER A STAND STILL SHOOTER AT PG BC THEY HAVE TOO MANY HANDS "PETTING THE BALL"

No, just No.

stop giving bulls fans a bad rep.

Rose is not better then Lebron.

Rose is the most 1-sided player in the top 10. Nobody talks about how bad this man is on defence. His P&R defence is average at best, his on ball defence is the same. For a guy with that much athleticism you would think that he would be a better defender but unfortunately he isn't. He will let sub top 15 pg's burn him regularly.

example: Bayless had 9 20+ point games this season. 2 out of the 9 were against rose, unacceptable for a budding superstar/top 5 player(if he is in fact better then lebron as you are arguing).

Rose's Bball IQ is average as his game consists mostly of barreling down the lane irregardless if it is contested or not and trying to finish incredible plays. (which he does most of the time, which is why he is sick.)

-His poor defensive abilities are also is indicative of his unstellar Bball IQ: Thib's does a great job hiding Rose on defence but when he is forced to guard a scorer at the 1 he continuously fails.

Also, he is a decent passer, though for the amount of time he has the ball in his hands & how much he breaks down the d and gets into the lane, he should be averaging more than 7.7apg. (you can't argue that his supporting cast sucks because this is the NBA, everybody can hit open jumpshots)

A number of his turnovers come from trying to force the inside pass when he get's into trouble while driving the lane.

Lebron is at a point in his career now where individual accolades are not enticing enough to chase. Remember that game where D12 and Orlando were making fun of him prior to tipoff and he then torched them for 51pts 8ast n 11rebs? Remember a couple seasons ago when Bosh's GF pissed off lebron and he torched my raptors for 55 pts?

That is the kind of power this man wields on a nightly basis. He sacrifices this for the good of the team. (not saying rose won't but you have to take this into account when comparing the two.)

Rose right now is at a point in his career where he wants to win but the only way he can is to take over the games himself. With an upgraded supporting cast things might change but every superstar has these breakout seasons of individual success. Let's not overstate his abilities, give him too much credit, or downplay others skills just to prove a point. It's insulting to the rest of the league and the countless other players that put in hard work.

The world does not revolve around Chicago/Rose as many bulls fans make it seem that way.

side note: I decided not to argue against your points as there are obvious rebuttals available to dispute your respective claims.

MelkyNYY
04-18-2011, 10:34 AM
The fact that people truly believe Rose is better than Lebron is a travesty.

King Koopa
04-18-2011, 11:09 AM
The fact that people truly believe Rose is better than Lebron is a travesty.

:facepalm: I know Bull fans are so sad... I really hope the HEAT play them in the playoffs just to shut them up.

SoxBearsBulls!
04-18-2011, 02:30 PM
I donīt think Rose is better than LBJ but you LBJ nutthuggers gotta realize that thinking another player might be as good as LBJ in the future isnīt sacriligeous.

LBJ isnīt even on the same planet as MJ.

SoxBearsBulls!
04-18-2011, 02:35 PM
:facepalm: I know Bull fans are so sad... I really hope the HEAT play them in the playoffs just to shut them up.

So youīre guaranteeing a Heat over Bulls result, Nostradamus?
Itīs entirely possible the Bulls do beat the Heat, you know that right?
I certainly think the Heat can win that series but the Bulls taking the season series 3 zip gives me that confidence, where does your confidence lie on?

Chronz
04-18-2011, 02:47 PM
From what I have read rose will not win MVP
I doubt I ever said that. Considering I know full well the voters can ignore all the evidence they want and make up any story to back up their argument, it would be foolish of me to eliminate a story like Rose


to he doesn't deserve it,
This has always been true, but when I say he doesnt deserve it I say it when compared to the players I feel do. He deserves to be in the running, and anyone in the running has merit for being selected.


to his MVP year would be one of the worst in history,
The words I used were least impressive MVP campaigns, how is this hate? If contextualizing his achievement to his MVPeers is hate then you HATE on every MVP winner but Rose.


he doesn't deserve 1st team all-nba, and so on.
Again how is this hate? Hes not as good of a player as Wade/Kobe, hes not as impactfull on either end, and the criteria for All-NBA is different than MVP.

If me saying Rose doesnt deserve 1st team is hate then you hate Wade or Kobe.


Which is all fine since this is all your opinion.
I gotta say your doing a piss poor job of proving my hatred.


The media, coaches, current player, former great players, analysts, all disagree with you mostly.
Newsflash, such is the case whenever anyone disagrees with an award selection. This doesnt mean they are always the correct decision. Also I find it telling when you have those same analysts admitting the voters are geared towards promoting an interesting narrative and get "bored" with the process of awarding those who are actually the best candidates.


Patrolling rose threads to spread ur beliefs is fine with me. Its a message board and we all have our opinion. Just say u hate rose and that rose petals are being thrown at his feet. We all know it already....

LMFAO, I dont care about what you think you know. Only how you go about proving it.

PS The fact that you ignored most of my post and opted to focus on 3 words (go for it) proves you have no argument in this thread.

KingPosey
04-18-2011, 02:57 PM
I would imagine that is not true at all. off the top of my head Im SURE lbj HAS DONE IT WITHIN THE LAST 3 YEARS. sorry caps.

KingPosey
04-18-2011, 02:59 PM
And to those of you saying Rose doesnt DESERVE the MVP, you are crazy. IF he won it, that is not a bad pick. IF DH wins it, that is also not a bad pick. They are both excellent choices. But only one can win.

Besides, it is pretty mcuh tradition that the person deserving the MVP doesnt win it, and then they win it the next year over someone that deserved it more that season.