PDA

View Full Version : ESPN's Hollinger's awards



Greet
04-15-2011, 09:32 AM
Rookie of the year:
1. Blake Griffin
2. Greg Monroe
3. John Wall

Rookie of the year (announcer:
Matt Harpring
Harpring, who played for the Jazz for seven seasons, was a revelation in his new career behind the mike, offering clear, concise explanations and shunning the rah-rah stuff that affects too many local-market announcers. Harpring showed a rare ability to point out the home team's mistakes without sounding critical, and because he played in this system he could point out exactly when and where the mistakes were being made.

About the only downside for Utah fans is that Harpring has been so good, it may not be long before the national broadcasters pluck him away.

Coach of the year:
1. Tom Thibodeau
2. George Karl
3. Gregg Popovich

6th Man of the year:
1. Lamar Odom
2. Thadeus Young
3. James Harden

Most Improved Player:
1. Darrell Arthuer
2. Derrick Rose
3. Kevin Love

Cruel World Award:
Houston Rockets
Houston will end up someplace between 42 and 44 wins and miss the playoffs, which is doubly cruel because Yao Ming played only five games and the Rockets were one of the league's best 12 teams anyway (see the Power Rankings) -- and because this keeps happening to the Rockets. Believe it or not, this is the fourth time in 11 years that Houston has won 42 games or more and missed the playoffs entirely.

Alas, the Rockets dropped a lot of close games early in the season and played in the wrong conference; the fact that they're better than four playoff teams in the East will be of little solace when they watch the Hawks, Knicks, 76ers and Pacers tip off playoff series on Saturday.

Defensive player of the year:
1. Dwight Howard
2. Kevin Garnett
3. Tony Allen

Most valuable player:
1. Dwight Howard
2. LeBron James (tied)
2. Dwyane Wade (tied)
4. Derrick Rose
5. Kobe Bryant
6. Dirk Nowitzki

Exec of the year:
1. Gar Forman and John Paxson, Bulls
2. Masai Ujiri, Nuggets
3. Pat Riley, Heat

Trade of the year
The Carmelo Anthony Deal
My one misgiving about not voting for Ujiri above is that the Nuggets had a deal basically forced upon them at gunpoint and somehow emerged with a total victory. Starting from the position that they'd have to trade Anthony, Denver's brilliant poker ploy with New Jersey rattled the Knicks enough that New York gave the Nuggets more than they could have reasonably expected.

Denver is now under the luxury tax and has an amazingly strong cap situation for the post-lockout labor agreement; only center Nene, a potential free agent, is expected to make more than $7.5 million next season. They have six good perimeter players age 26 or younger; they have a bunch of future draft picks; and, ironically, they're in position to make exactly the kind of red-chips-for-a-blue-chip deal the Knicks thought they were making with the Anthony trade.

Free agent of the year
Tony Allen, Grizzlies
Because it's so far off the national radar, I don't think people outside Memphis have fully grasped the importance of the Tony Allen Experience this year. Allen began the year getting DNPs and is now a cult hero there; he's one of the unique players in the league in terms of leaving his stamp on the game because he's so hyperaggressive at both ends of the court.

In doing so, he's helped change the mentality of a Memphis team that couldn't have cared less about defense a year ago but now is a top-10 defensive squad. More importantly, he's changed the mentality of a city that couldn't have cared less about its basketball team and is now charged up about a return to the playoffs.

The amazing part? It cost Memphis just $9.4 million over three years. In a summer when countless ridiculous contracts were handed out to players who haven't been one-tenth as good (the Phoenix Suns alone gave out more than five times as much -- $50 million -- to Josh Childress and Hakim Warrick, neither of whom plays), Allen's acquisition has proved to be an absolute Brink's Job.


Thought it was interesting, the guys a complete idiot but I do agree with a lot of these. Personally switch D. Rose with Wade so it goes Howard/LBJ/Drose for MVP and that'd be better...

ChitownSports16
04-15-2011, 09:48 AM
He's been saying that all year... Even before the season even started.

gwrighter
04-15-2011, 09:50 AM
Darrell Arthur as MIP are you serious?

Hawkeye15
04-15-2011, 10:07 AM
Darrell Arthur as MIP are you serious?

he bases it almost totally off statistical improvement though. Arthur didn't even belong in the NBA last year, and now is a productive role player with averge efficiency. He had arguably the biggest statistical jump in efficiency.

Obviously I don't like his reasoning on this one, but that is Hollinger for ya. 80% of his stuff is great, the other kinda makes you scratch your head

Double_R
04-15-2011, 10:10 AM
These are more like the real answers, except either Love or Rose should be MIP

-Kobe24-TJ19-
04-15-2011, 10:10 AM
Darrell Arthur as MIP are you serious?

this lol, its gotta be a mistake

Avenged
04-15-2011, 10:17 AM
he bases it almost totally off statistical improvement though. Arthur didn't even belong in the NBA last year, and now is a productive role player with averge efficiency. He had arguably the biggest statistical jump in efficiency.

Obviously I don't like his reasoning on this one, but that is Hollinger for ya. 80% of his stuff is great, the other kinda makes you scratch your head

You don't like it because he didn't go with Love, but more times than not, you agree with everything he says.

Kind of how us Laker fans feel when he's always against Kobe.

gsgs49
04-15-2011, 10:18 AM
Why Lebron and Wade are tied in the MVP race? they play for the same team and Lebron has better stats.

Squad13
04-15-2011, 10:20 AM
Matt Harpring is a god awful broadcaster...... I've heard some of the dumbest things come out of his mouth, for example "the warriors are a great defensive team"

Double_R
04-15-2011, 10:35 AM
Why Lebron and Wade are tied in the MVP race? they play for the same team and Lebron has better stats.

Because both are equally valuable.

CostanzaNumba0
04-15-2011, 10:45 AM
He neglected to mention that the nuggets are also likely to lose wilson chandler after this season, so its gallo, felton for another year, a couple of picks and mozgov, not that good to be honest,, its certainly not melo

Mc Uncle Cola
04-15-2011, 10:49 AM
This has to be one of the worst iv seen in a while...

Rose at 4? I would say 3 the lowest ..Wade didn't have a better season then him

Aurther MIP?? hahaha Humphries didn't make the list?

Trade NYK? Looks like NJ and Denver both got better trades..

Hollinger your weak
:facepalm:

Wade_County
04-15-2011, 10:50 AM
made.



Most Improved Player:
1. Darrell Arthuer
2. Derrick Rose
3. Kevin Love




Most valuable player:
1. Dwight Howard
2. LeBron James (tied)
2. Dwyane Wade (tied)
4. Derrick Rose
5. Kobe Bryant
6. Dirk Nowitzki

Exec of the year:
1. Gar Forman and John Paxson, Bulls
2. Masai Ujiri, Nuggets
3. Pat Riley, Heat



LOL, Bolded is what it should be.

dwadefan03
04-15-2011, 10:55 AM
some of it is flawed but i like that he doesnt just go with the popular opinion, he actually gives his own input on things. I lol'd at pat riley not being exec of the year tho

sammid21
04-15-2011, 11:07 AM
Not being a homer but how can he put LBJ and Wade above Rose? doesnt he see that the reason they are having good years is because each of them cancels out double teams? with less pressure on LBJ and Wade (playing one on one instead of getting double teamed) they have a better chance and the luxury of having stellar years.
In Roses and Dwights case, they do get constantly doubled and are still having unbelievable years. even tho i prefer Rose at number 1 i dont mind Hollinger putting Dwightfirst and Rose 2nd.

And the MIP to Arthur? thats ridiculous, its clearly between Dorrell Wright, Kevin Love, or LMA

Pierzynski4Prez
04-15-2011, 11:30 AM
He neglected to mention that the nuggets are also likely to lose wilson chandler after this season, so its gallo, felton for another year, a couple of picks and mozgov, not that good to be honest,, its certainly not melo

You got a link for that, or you just have your own connection within the Nuggets front office? Chandler was basically the centerpiece of the trade, I highly doubt the Nuggets let him walk.

TopsyTurvy
04-15-2011, 11:32 AM
A team unable to win 50 plus is simply mediocre due to the disparity between the haves and the have-nots in the Western Conference. There's nothing cruel about missing the playoffs if your team can't get it done consistently.

Kenny
04-15-2011, 11:40 AM
You got a link for that, or you just have your own connection within the Nuggets front office? Chandler was basically the centerpiece of the trade, I highly doubt the Nuggets let him walk.

Then they are going to have to resign him for probable close to 10 mill a year if guys like Outlaw and Amir Johnson got 7 mill a year.

Htownballa1622
04-15-2011, 11:57 AM
A team unable to win 50 plus is simply mediocre due to the disparity between the haves and the have-nots in the Western Conference. There's nothing cruel about missing the playoffs if your team can't get it done consistently.

There is some parts cruel seeing as how in the east you can be .500 and get in.

Some teams are more fortunate to play in lets say the central division than the most competitive southwest division.

Htownballa1622
04-15-2011, 12:00 PM
I like it for the most part.
Only things are-

Rose should be mip and either second behind dwight or third behind dwight and lbj in mvp.

Maybe riley for exec. of year.

Hawkeye15
04-15-2011, 12:00 PM
You don't like it because he didn't go with Love, but more times than not, you agree with everything he says.

Kind of how us Laker fans feel when he's always against Kobe.

oh the Love thing has nothing to do with it. He has been all over Love's jock for 3 years now. I just disagree with the extremes. I understand Arthur went from being horrific to average, which is statistically the biggest jump of anyone in the NBA, but you still don't give MIP award to a 9-4 guy who plays 20 mpg.

Hawkeye15
04-15-2011, 12:03 PM
Not being a homer but how can he put LBJ and Wade above Rose? doesnt he see that the reason they are having good years is because each of them cancels out double teams? with less pressure on LBJ and Wade (playing one on one instead of getting double teamed) they have a better chance and the luxury of having stellar years.
In Roses and Dwights case, they do get constantly doubled and are still having unbelievable years. even tho i prefer Rose at number 1 i dont mind Hollinger putting Dwightfirst and Rose 2nd.

And the MIP to Arthur? thats ridiculous, its clearly between Dorrell Wright, Kevin Love, or LMA

what? Those two have been arguably two of the top three players the last few years. And they weren't teammates then. Again, its because he looks at everything almost exclusively through statistics, somewhere Rose just can't keep up with when speaking of LeBron, Dwight, and Wade.

nickdymez
04-15-2011, 12:16 PM
stupid list

sammid21
04-15-2011, 12:26 PM
what? Those two have been arguably two of the top three players the last few years. And they weren't teammates then. Again, its because he looks at everything almost exclusively through statistics, somewhere Rose just can't keep up with when speaking of LeBron, Dwight, and Wade.

did you read the rest of my post? Rose and Dwight have the pressure of a double team and still have put up great numbers, Rose is averaging 25, 4, 8 for a PG to LBJs 26,7,7 for a big SF, wade 25, 4, 6, big difference there from Rose right?

. and like i said if Rose or Dwight had another player that commands a double team then i'd give LBJ or Wade the benifit of the doubt. But that isnt the case, Hollinger should have Durant as the top candidate if he solely looked at numbers, his is the leading scorer. He has to take everything into account for MVP, otherwise his picks are wrong if they are number based only

pd1dish
04-15-2011, 12:30 PM
Matt Harpring is a god awful broadcaster...... I've heard some of the dumbest things come out of his mouth, for example "the warriors are a great defensive team"

lol i love your sig with chris rock looking like hes talking to someone and its kobe just completely ignoring him. it actually made me laugh sitting by myself at my computer

The John Wall
04-15-2011, 12:30 PM
LOL, Bolded is what it should be.

What did Pat Riley do? Bring in Juwan Howard? LeBron, Wade and Bosh were always planning to play together or at least made it a high chance. Dwyane Wade was the one who got them all together.

JordansBulls
04-15-2011, 12:41 PM
Rookie of the year:
1. Blake Griffin
2. Greg Monroe
3. John Wall

Rookie of the year (announcer:
Matt Harpring
Harpring, who played for the Jazz for seven seasons, was a revelation in his new career behind the mike, offering clear, concise explanations and shunning the rah-rah stuff that affects too many local-market announcers. Harpring showed a rare ability to point out the home team's mistakes without sounding critical, and because he played in this system he could point out exactly when and where the mistakes were being made.

About the only downside for Utah fans is that Harpring has been so good, it may not be long before the national broadcasters pluck him away.

Coach of the year:
1. Tom Thibodeau
2. George Karl
3. Gregg Popovich

6th Man of the year:
1. Lamar Odom
2. Thadeus Young
3. James Harden

Most Improved Player:
1. Darrell Arthuer
2. Derrick Rose
3. Kevin Love

Cruel World Award:
Houston Rockets
Houston will end up someplace between 42 and 44 wins and miss the playoffs, which is doubly cruel because Yao Ming played only five games and the Rockets were one of the league's best 12 teams anyway (see the Power Rankings) -- and because this keeps happening to the Rockets. Believe it or not, this is the fourth time in 11 years that Houston has won 42 games or more and missed the playoffs entirely.

Alas, the Rockets dropped a lot of close games early in the season and played in the wrong conference; the fact that they're better than four playoff teams in the East will be of little solace when they watch the Hawks, Knicks, 76ers and Pacers tip off playoff series on Saturday.

Defensive player of the year:
1. Dwight Howard
2. Kevin Garnett
3. Tony Allen

Most valuable player:
1. Dwight Howard
2. LeBron James (tied)
2. Dwyane Wade (tied)
4. Derrick Rose
5. Kobe Bryant
6. Dirk Nowitzki

Exec of the year:
1. Gar Forman and John Paxson, Bulls
2. Masai Ujiri, Nuggets
3. Pat Riley, Heat

Trade of the year
The Carmelo Anthony Deal
My one misgiving about not voting for Ujiri above is that the Nuggets had a deal basically forced upon them at gunpoint and somehow emerged with a total victory. Starting from the position that they'd have to trade Anthony, Denver's brilliant poker ploy with New Jersey rattled the Knicks enough that New York gave the Nuggets more than they could have reasonably expected.

Denver is now under the luxury tax and has an amazingly strong cap situation for the post-lockout labor agreement; only center Nene, a potential free agent, is expected to make more than $7.5 million next season. They have six good perimeter players age 26 or younger; they have a bunch of future draft picks; and, ironically, they're in position to make exactly the kind of red-chips-for-a-blue-chip deal the Knicks thought they were making with the Anthony trade.

Free agent of the year
Tony Allen, Grizzlies
Because it's so far off the national radar, I don't think people outside Memphis have fully grasped the importance of the Tony Allen Experience this year. Allen began the year getting DNPs and is now a cult hero there; he's one of the unique players in the league in terms of leaving his stamp on the game because he's so hyperaggressive at both ends of the court.

In doing so, he's helped change the mentality of a Memphis team that couldn't have cared less about defense a year ago but now is a top-10 defensive squad. More importantly, he's changed the mentality of a city that couldn't have cared less about its basketball team and is now charged up about a return to the playoffs.

The amazing part? It cost Memphis just $9.4 million over three years. In a summer when countless ridiculous contracts were handed out to players who haven't been one-tenth as good (the Phoenix Suns alone gave out more than five times as much -- $50 million -- to Josh Childress and Hakim Warrick, neither of whom plays), Allen's acquisition has proved to be an absolute Brink's Job.


Thought it was interesting, the guys a complete idiot but I do agree with a lot of these. Personally switch D. Rose with Wade so it goes Howard/LBJ/Drose for MVP and that'd be better...

Rose 4th is a joke when he led the Bulls to the best record in the league despite all the injuries.

Cases for MVP --> Best stats in the league, lead team to top seed, or lead team to best record.

IMO those are the only cases for a guy getting MVP unless the 2nd best player on the team was injured for significant time.

gotoHcarolina52
04-15-2011, 12:43 PM
I lol'd at pat riley not being exec of the year tho

Me too. First you tell me that in the offseason Miami signed the two players you have tied for 2nd in your MVP ballot, and then you turn around and say that someone else should win executive of the year? It doesn't make any sense.

It doesn't make sense. It doesn't fit. And if it doesn't fit, you gotta fix that sh -t.

Pat Riley exec of the year.

ravistarr
04-15-2011, 12:51 PM
Me too. First you tell me that in the offseason Miami signed the two players you have tied for 2nd in your MVP ballot, and then you turn around and say that someone else should win executive of the year? It doesn't make any sense.

It doesn't make sense. It doesn't fit. And if it doesn't fit, you gotta fix that sh -t.

Pat Riley exec of the year.

Yeah. No. As mentioned above, it was already pre-planned. By now it's common knowledge. You Heat fans need to stop living in denial and acknoledge that. So, in that sense, Riley was just an instrument in bringing about collusion. Not executive of the year material. In contrast, the Bulls execs built a TEAM.

sammid21
04-15-2011, 12:53 PM
Me too. First you tell me that in the offseason Miami signed the two players you have tied for 2nd in your MVP ballot, and then you turn around and say that someone else should win executive of the year? It doesn't make any sense.

It doesn't make sense. It doesn't fit. And if it doesn't fit, you gotta fix that sh -t.

Pat Riley exec of the year.

Right, executive of the year (being sarcastic) Riley didnt do much, Wade should be the EOTY because he was the one who convinced LBJ and Bosh to sign with the Heat, i bet LBJ probably wanted them to go to CLE but Wade and the city (location) made both LBJ and Bosh change their minds. Riley had very little to do with this.
Bulls GM actually put together a team (8 new players) and they got the number 1 seed in the NBA, i think that gets you the EOTY, not just signing 2 1/2 stars that IMO underacheived (i expected them to win more)

The John Wall
04-15-2011, 12:53 PM
Derrick Rose is the MVP, Dorrell Wright is the MIP and Tom Thibadeaux is the COY.

gotoHcarolina52
04-15-2011, 12:56 PM
Yeah. No. As mentioned above, it was already pre-planned. By now it's common knowledge. You Heat fans need to stop living in denial and acknoledge that. So, in that sense, Riley was just an instrument in bringing about collusion. Not executive of the year material. In contrast, the Bulls execs built a TEAM.

Apparently somehow getting sloppy thirds (Amar'e, Bosh, then Boozer) and

Kyle Korver
Ronnie Brewer
Omer Asik
Keith Bogans
John Lucas III
Brian Scalabrine
Kurt Thomas
and
C.J. Watson

somehow constitutes executive of the year material.

The only thing the Bulls got right was hiring Tom Thibodeau . . . and that only happened after they passed on him a year earlier to hire Vinny Del Negro.

Yeah, executive of the year my :moon:

Chronz
04-15-2011, 12:58 PM
Ill ignore the MVP talk here but I cant believe I went a full year not knowing Harpring was a broadcaster.


Darrell Arthur as MIP are you serious?
Defense is an aspect of improvement thats hard for the casual fan to notice



he bases it almost totally off statistical improvement though. Arthur didn't even belong in the NBA last year, and now is a productive role player with averge efficiency. He had arguably the biggest statistical jump in efficiency.

Obviously I don't like his reasoning on this one, but that is Hollinger for ya. 80% of his stuff is great, the other kinda makes you scratch your head
Your totally disregarding the vast defensive improvements hes made, hes become kind of like Taj Gibson, these kind of PF's (leaner, quick footed) are going to become the staple defensive PF with the way the league is going and DA is next in line.

I have Jrue as the MIP but DA isnt a bad pick



Not being a homer but how can he put LBJ and Wade above Rose? doesnt he see that the reason they are having good years is because each of them cancels out double teams?
I know I said Id stay away but are you ****ing serious?




And the MIP to Arthur? thats ridiculous, its clearly between Dorrell Wright, Kevin Love, or LMA
How is it clearly between them? Lets save ourselves the time and just argue for Dorrell Wright please

Lake_Show2416
04-15-2011, 01:01 PM
LOL, Bolded is what it should be.

ya I agree with everything besides those 3 awards, u got it right

Kevin Love is the MIP
D. Rose is the MVP
& Pat Riley locked up excutive of the year on July 8th, 2010

Chronz
04-15-2011, 01:01 PM
Apparently somehow getting sloppy thirds (Amar'e, Bosh, then Boozer) and

Kyle Korver
Ronnie Brewer
Omer Asik
Keith Bogans
John Lucas III
Brian Scalabrine
Kurt Thomas
and
C.J. Watson

somehow constitutes executive of the year material.

The only thing the Bulls got right was hiring Tom Thibodeau . . . and that only happened after they passed on him a year earlier to hire Vinny Del Negro.

Yeah, executive of the year my :moon:

Asik was a fantastic selection, Kurt provided insurance coverage (paid off huge), CJ Watson has been sought after for awhile now, hes a bargain pick. Bringing in Brewer/Korver with Boozer provided instant chemistry as all are familiar with the flex sets Chicago often runs.

Even Scalabrini is a fantastic 12-15th man

I agree it is executive award material

Baller1
04-15-2011, 01:06 PM
A pretty solid list, although I don't think you can ever realistically give the MIP award to a bench player not even averaging double digit points.

Kinda nice to see him give Harden a little love though.

Baller1
04-15-2011, 01:06 PM
Oh, and D Roses Bulls is gonna love this thread!

shizzle09
04-15-2011, 01:07 PM
Not being a homer but how can he put LBJ and Wade above Rose? doesnt he see that the reason they are having good years is because each of them cancels out double teams? with less pressure on LBJ and Wade (playing one on one instead of getting double teamed) they have a better chance and the luxury of having stellar years.
In Roses and Dwights case, they do get constantly doubled and are still having unbelievable years. even tho i prefer Rose at number 1 i dont mind Hollinger putting Dwightfirst and Rose 2nd.

And the MIP to Arthur? thats ridiculous, its clearly between Dorrell Wright, Kevin Love, or LMA

what??? Have you not seen the last 5 seasons for each player when they played with nobody?

ravistarr
04-15-2011, 01:08 PM
Apparently somehow getting sloppy thirds (Amar'e, Bosh, then Boozer) and

Kyle Korver
Ronnie Brewer
Omer Asik
Keith Bogans
John Lucas III
Brian Scalabrine
Kurt Thomas
and
C.J. Watson

somehow constitutes executive of the year material.

The only thing the Bulls got right was hiring Tom Thibodeau . . . and that only happened after they passed on him a year earlier to hire Vinny Del Negro.

Yeah, executive of the year my :moon:

It's called role players. All great teams have them. I know this may be a foreign concept for you, and I'm sorry if you don't understand it. But, since you clearly need further study, the Bulls will provide you a little lesson in the playoffs.

Htownballa1622
04-15-2011, 01:09 PM
Bulls GM actually put together a team (8 new players) and they got the number 1 seed in the NBA, i think that gets you the EOTY

Apparently this gets the best player on that team an mvp award over IMO the more deserving dwight howard.

sammid21
04-15-2011, 01:13 PM
I know I said Id stay away but are you ****ing serious?




How is it clearly between them? Lets save ourselves the time and just argue for Dorrell Wright please

Yes im ****ing serious, if youre a coach, would you double team Rose? yes, Howard? yes. LBJ, Wade? there arent enough players on the court, both command double teams right? so if you double Wade, you leave LBJ one on one, or vice versa, then team still have to worry about Bosh. it makes it a little easier for them to get the stats they are getting. Roses and Howards stats would be a lot better if they had 1 and a half more stars on their team.

im speaking thru a basketball stand point, not the best player in the league, clearly its LBJ but even he noted that he and wade would probably lessen their chances of getting the MVP because they cancel each other out. but some writers cant look past what both of those did seperately a year ago

Hawkeye15
04-15-2011, 01:16 PM
Ill ignore the MVP talk here but I cant believe I went a full year not knowing Harpring was a broadcaster.


Defense is an aspect of improvement thats hard for the casual fan to notice



Your totally disregarding the vast defensive improvements hes made, hes become kind of like Taj Gibson, these kind of PF's (leaner, quick footed) are going to become the staple defensive PF with the way the league is going and DA is next in line.

I have Jrue as the MIP but DA isnt a bad pick



I know I said Id stay away but are you ****ing serious?




How is it clearly between them? Lets save ourselves the time and just argue for Dorrell Wright please


when has defense ever been used in most of these awards? Especially MIP, which is nearly always a stat award. That is all I am trying to say. And the point is, while Arthur made the biggest individual improvement possibly, he still has the numbers and playing time of a role player. They just don't give the MIP to that criteria.

sammid21
04-15-2011, 01:17 PM
what??? Have you not seen the last 5 seasons for each player when they played with nobody?

The last 5 seasons has nothing to do with the MVP this year, if thats the case, the MVP for this year should go to last years deserving player, but thats not how it goes.

sammid21
04-15-2011, 01:21 PM
Apparently this gets the best player on that team an mvp award over IMO the more deserving dwight howard.


I wasnt talking about the MVP. Rose deserves it SLIGHTLY over Dwight because of the teams expectations, the MVP has a hard formula to figure out. Dwight deserves it too tho, i'd like to see co-MVPs (Rose/Dwight)..... on different teams that is (heat fans).

Baller1
04-15-2011, 01:23 PM
Can we not turn this into an MVP thread again, let's take this opportunity to talk about the other awards. The MVP talk is played out.

Chronz
04-15-2011, 01:23 PM
Yes im ****ing serious, if youre a coach, would you double team Rose? yes, Howard? yes. LBJ, Wade? there arent enough players on the court, both command double teams right? so if you double Wade, you leave LBJ one on one, or vice versa, then team still have to worry about Bosh.
If Im a coach I dont view the game the way you do, you dont have to commit doubles to shadow a player. For exampleI can shade off of Joel Anthony/Dampier whenever they are in the game and focus on whoever is driving the ball.


it makes it a little easier for them to get the stats they are getting.
WRONG, Wade/Bron skillset overlap so much that its been HARDER to get the stats they are getting, the 2 are so good that they can still be among the most productive players in the league, the familiarity with eachother is groing so its something theyve begun to figure out but overall on the season your claims are dubious.


Roses and Howards stats would be a lot better if they had 1 and a half more stars on their team.
I dont believe for a second that youve studied the phenomena



Dude you ignored the MIP debate, thats the main thing I want to talk about, heres an award where you can really strut your statistical wizardry.

FlakeyFool
04-15-2011, 01:23 PM
Apparently somehow getting sloppy thirds (Amar'e, Bosh, then Boozer) and

Kyle Korver
Ronnie Brewer
Omer Asik
Keith Bogans
John Lucas III
Brian Scalabrine
Kurt Thomas
and
C.J. Watson

somehow constitutes executive of the year material.

The only thing the Bulls got right was hiring Tom Thibodeau . . . and that only happened after they passed on him a year earlier to hire Vinny Del Negro.

Yeah, executive of the year my :moon:

Was this sarcasm? I think your just upset that Bulls management built a better team then Pat Riley did.

Hawkeye15
04-15-2011, 01:24 PM
Yes im ****ing serious, if youre a coach, would you double team Rose? yes, Howard? yes. LBJ, Wade? there arent enough players on the court, both command double teams right? so if you double Wade, you leave LBJ one on one, or vice versa, then team still have to worry about Bosh. it makes it a little easier for them to get the stats they are getting. Roses and Howards stats would be a lot better if they had 1 and a half more stars on their team.

im speaking thru a basketball stand point, not the best player in the league, clearly its LBJ but even he noted that he and wade would probably lessen their chances of getting the MVP because they cancel each other out. but some writers cant look past what both of those did seperately a year ago

but your theory has been disproven for years man. YEARS. So all of a sudden, LeBron and Wade are only good because they have another high profile teammate? Do you realize how incorrect that train of thought is? That is 100x worse than the Rose opponents saying the Bulls defense will win him the MVP. At least that statement has partial truth to it

Htownballa1622
04-15-2011, 01:28 PM
I wasnt talking about the MVP. Rose deserves it SLIGHTLY over Dwight because of the teams expectations, the MVP has a hard formula to figure out. Dwight deserves it too tho, i'd like to see co-MVPs (Rose/Dwight)..... on different teams that is (heat fans).

I understand completely that you weren't talking about mvp.

What I'm saying is the statement in your paragraph I quoted is usually the same reason I hear for rose as mvp. I do too think rose deserves major consideration for mvp but like some few have said, the media hypes him as the already crowned mvp and dwights run at mvp is slighted due to expectations.

I just feel dwights defense is what sets the mvp apart and also the fact that his impact to the magic is more than anyone else in the league.

:) I'm fine with either though.

Chronz
04-15-2011, 01:34 PM
when has defense ever been used in most of these awards?
Various winners have won for a variety of reasons, defensive improvements have factored in before, Alvin Robertson comes to mind rather quickly.


Especially MIP, which is nearly always a stat award.
If you look at the history of the award there really isnt a direct criteria, its much worse than the MVP because the contenders for the award will be all over the place, some of which make no sense from any quantifiable standpoint.


That is all I am trying to say. And the point is, while Arthur made the biggest individual improvement possibly, he still has the numbers and playing time of a role player. They just don't give the MIP to that criteria.

Why not? Theyve done it before. All Im saying is that hes basing the MIP selection off of what it fundamentally means to him, not what he thinks the idiots will decide.

gotoHcarolina52
04-15-2011, 01:35 PM
Was this sarcasm? I think your just upset that Bulls management built a better team then Pat Riley did.

I'm not going to sit here and start comparing the Bulls's best additions (Boozer, Korver, Brewer, Bogans, etc) to the Heat's (LeBron, Bosh, Bibby, Miller . . . and never mind Wade and Haslem, who, while on the Heat last season, were unrestricted free agents and could be considered "additions" as there was some serious uncertainty as to whether or not they would return). We'll have to wait and see how things turn out in the playoffs. But I'm confident the Heat will go further than the Bulls and so vindicate my vote for Riley as exec of the year.

8kobe24
04-15-2011, 01:47 PM
lol hollinger has an awards list now?

Hawkeye15
04-15-2011, 01:56 PM
Various winners have won for a variety of reasons, defensive improvements have factored in before, Alvin Robertson comes to mind rather quickly.


If you look at the history of the award there really isnt a direct criteria, its much worse than the MVP because the contenders for the award will be all over the place, some of which make no sense from any quantifiable standpoint.


Why not? Theyve done it before. All Im saying is that hes basing the MIP selection off of what it fundamentally means to him, not what he thinks the idiots will decide.


Approximately 3% of the people on PSD saw Alvin Robertson play haha.

I pulled up a list of the award winners, and its all over the place, no doubt.

Agreed on the last part, I think MIP means something different to everyone, and there is no direct criteria. But Arthur has zero chance of winning it. Love was crowned with this award a long time ago, even if it is the wrong choice in some people's eyes.

Bullsfan22
04-15-2011, 01:58 PM
lol hollinger has an awards list now?

He should have kept it to himself.

Double_R
04-15-2011, 02:05 PM
He should have kept it to himself.

Outside of MIP, it's pretty spot on. Sorry it's not Wilbon's list.

NBA_Starter
04-15-2011, 02:11 PM
What?!

Chronz
04-15-2011, 02:49 PM
I pulled up a list of the award winners, and its all over the place, no doubt.
The award winners arent as bad as the actual votes given out to the competitors for it, like one year PJ Brown got a few votes, I believe in his Celtic days. Some players who have totally regressed get some love.


Agreed on the last part, I think MIP means something different to everyone, and there is no direct criteria. But Arthur has zero chance of winning it. Love was crowned with this award a long time ago, even if it is the wrong choice in some people's eyes.

Yes but this isnt the Hollinger Prediction Thread, its Hollingers rationale thread. If you want to discredit his decisions you cant cite what the voters will do.


lol hollinger has an awards list now?

We all have our lists, yours just isnt posted on ESPN.

KG2TB
04-15-2011, 04:01 PM
Well considering ESPN is garbage, that's probably a good thing.

Gators123
04-15-2011, 04:07 PM
Nice to see Monroe get a little credit :clap:

D Roses Bulls
04-15-2011, 04:14 PM
Oh, and D Roses Bulls is gonna love this thread!

nah..... Everyone knows how I feel about hollinger. I expected no less from him. all I can say, is thank god he doesn't actually decide who wins all these awards.

Crackadalic
04-15-2011, 04:19 PM
very flawed

SteveNash
04-15-2011, 04:28 PM
Darrell Arthur was injured last season and is young so I'm not really seeing what the argument for him is besides PER.

Tony_Starks
04-15-2011, 05:21 PM
At first I was surprised he had Kobe at 5th but then I remembered who it was and was shocked he even included Kobe at all.....

northsider
04-15-2011, 05:26 PM
I am shocked he even had Rose at the 4 spot to be honest. Not a terrible list I think the MIP was kind of a joke but, should be Love.

I think Hollinger is a very smart basketball mind but, I truly believe he is someone who says stuff just to get people to acknowledge him and go wait a second you pick who and then we are all forced to listen to him talk and he gets the attention he likes.

Either way he is completely entitled to his opinions my question though is why are his awards so important cause he created PER?

Arch Stanton
04-15-2011, 07:01 PM
Who cares. Hollinger is *****! The guy is overrated with his dumb stats and his pretentious ESPN following. I never gave a **** what he thought and never will.

D Roses Bulls
04-15-2011, 07:06 PM
I am shocked he even had Rose at the 4 spot to be honest. Not a terrible list I think the MIP was kind of a joke but, should be Love.

I think Hollinger is a very smart basketball mind but, I truly believe he is someone who says stuff just to get people to acknowledge him and go wait a second you pick who and then we are all forced to listen to him talk and he gets the attention he likes.

Either way he is completely entitled to his opinions my question though is why are his awards so important cause he created PER?

who said his awards were important? and as ric bucher said today in his chat, guys at ESPN aren't paid to be right, they are paid for entertainment and to get people to think about things they never have before.

Doogolas
04-15-2011, 07:42 PM
I don't get how he can't put Rose as MIP based on statistical jumps. Rose had, BY FAR the biggest jump in WS/48. Which is something I would think Hollinger would look at first and foremost.

mzgrizz
04-15-2011, 08:42 PM
Well I am glad Darrell Arthur is included in MIP list. He should be recognized for coming back after his surgery and playing so well. I believe he will get more respect out of fans when they actually get a chance to see him play. Doubt many if any of them have even SEEN a Grizz game .
He however would not be my #1 pick. That would go to DRose.

Whomewhome
04-15-2011, 10:50 PM
If Pat Riley doesn't win Exec of the year, then I don't know what these awards are for. He pulled of the greatest FA signings in the history of the league. And surrounded them with players that are not too shabby either. Bibby!

The John Wall
04-15-2011, 11:02 PM
If Pat Riley doesn't win Exec of the year, then I don't know what these awards are for. He pulled of the greatest FA signings in the history of the league. And surrounded them with players that are not too shabby either. Bibby!


Dwyane Wade got Chris Bosh and LeBron James. Pat Riley got Juwan Howard and Mike Miller.

How about Donnie Nelson? Tyson Chandler who is currently in the running for DPOY, re-signed Dirk, got Peja Stojakovic and Corey Brewer off of waivers.

ActionJaxon
04-16-2011, 02:12 AM
Why Lebron and Wade are tied in the MVP race? they play for the same team and Lebron has better stats.

B/c he doesn't know what MVP means

brb 2 mvp's on the same team

JNA17
04-16-2011, 03:01 AM
John Hollinger showing his intelligence again. This guy better go out glenn beck style out of espn soon.

flclfanman
04-16-2011, 07:19 AM
Still laughing @ Darrell Arthur. Great player this year but every GM in the league would trade him for K.Love in a heartbeat.

Draco
04-16-2011, 07:22 AM
Do we need Hollinger to write an article? Can't he just post a spreadsheet similar to his power rankings.

bringbackfredex
04-16-2011, 08:00 AM
Coach of the year:
1. Tom Thibodeau
2. George Karl
3. Gregg Popovich

Lol, no Collins in the Top 3? Fail.


Most Improved Player:
1. Darrell Arthuer
2. Derrick Rose
3. Kevin Love

Lol, self-explanatory. Fail x2.


Defensive player of the year:
1. Dwight Howard
2. Kevin Garnett
3. Tony Allen

Lol, no Iguodala in the Top 3? Fail x3.