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basketfan4life
04-09-2011, 01:54 PM
First of all please don't come up with we don't need this kind of threads, cause i really wonder people's opinion about it. and for the sake of the argument let's put wilt a side.

so where do you rank Kobe all time, when he was at his best , as a scorer...only at that point of his career, let's say in the span of 2005-2007(actually i think he was at his best last year before breaking his finger,but due to injuries that span was very short)

i have a feeling that it was only compareble to m.j and better than anyone else.that 81 point game,4*50, 62 in 3 quarters and outscoring the opposing team.it was just unbeliaveble...

don't forget,i'm not asking where do you rank him as a player, i'm asking as a scorer...

toughts?

LakersIn5
04-09-2011, 02:07 PM
no.1

tyfreaks brotha
04-09-2011, 02:39 PM
Top 5

theheatles
04-09-2011, 02:40 PM
81>69

Gators123
04-09-2011, 02:41 PM
Probably top 5

-Kobe24-TJ19-
04-09-2011, 02:52 PM
#1

goose15
04-09-2011, 03:03 PM
probally 2 after MJ.

Eg714
04-09-2011, 03:05 PM
As just a scorer number 1 without a doubt. He could and did score in any and all ways. He used his full arsenal in that 81 point game. Driving to the hoop, hitting 3s, the fadeaway, mid range game and even the impossible shots he hit. Kobe had no offensive weakness.

gerber
04-09-2011, 03:23 PM
top 3

stawka
04-09-2011, 03:25 PM
As a scorer, I'd like to say #2 behind MJ, but he'd probably be #1... and that's coming from someone that hates him. He's a ridiculous scorer, unreal

Purple&Gold24
04-09-2011, 03:26 PM
numero 1

dhopisthename
04-09-2011, 03:29 PM
top 5 he is not a better scorer then jordan or chamberlain
http://bkref.com/tiny/ZMBGo

Reversed86Curse
04-09-2011, 03:31 PM
For that period of time #1, but all time, top 10

Crackadalic
04-09-2011, 03:32 PM
Top 5

ko8e24
04-09-2011, 03:36 PM
Unquestionably the best ever. Wilt was going up against men half his size, and he was near the basket everytime. Heck, I would go as far as saying that Kareem was the best big man scorer off all-time since he had that unstoppable 15-ft sky hook shot.

And I would put Kobe ahead of MJ for the simple fact that you can talk about all the 3pt field goal %s, but MJ was never really feared beyond the arch...Kobe was and at times still is. In his best days, Kobe could hit a string of 6 or 7 consecutive 3 pt shots. The only real advantage MJ had over Kobe was the size of his hands, where he could palm the ball, absorb contact, and yet easily make the basket for a 3pt opportunity.

heatking
04-09-2011, 03:55 PM
Kobeis top3, but lakers fans dont come in here and say mj wasnt feared beyond the arc... He was fearedfrom everysingle spot in the court.

thekmp211
04-09-2011, 04:00 PM
kobe might be a slightly better career three-point shooter, but lets be serious that slight difference in their games does not make up for all of MJ's other advantages over kobe. i'll put kobe at number two, and i'm sure other names could be argued ahead of him. the guy was born to put the ball in the hole.

lakerboy
04-09-2011, 04:01 PM
#1

His only competition is Wilt, and Wilt played against very little people

CPJ08
04-09-2011, 04:04 PM
i would put him as NEARLY Jordan's equal as a scorer, but slightly behind. MJ just had that fear factor and will thats a little greater than Kobe

C-Style
04-09-2011, 04:11 PM
Top 3 with Wilt & MJ

It'sMyTime
04-09-2011, 04:13 PM
MJ then Kobe

Dnovakovic099
04-09-2011, 04:14 PM
#1

His only competition is Wilt, and Wilt played against very little people

Jordan had more ppg while shooting better than Kobe. Don't get ahead of yourself.

Hawkeye15
04-09-2011, 04:20 PM
MJ and Wilt are both better, but Kobe has got to be top 5

Jewelz0376
04-09-2011, 04:21 PM
I put Kobe at #2 behind MJ....

bolts4ever
04-09-2011, 04:23 PM
It may be hard for MJ fans to handle but Kobe is the best scoring guard of all time!!

MJ was a better pure athlete and because of his strengh and thick body he was better goint to the rim.

But Kobe is a superior ballhandler and defenitely a better pure shooter(12 3's in a game!!nba record) and his ability to hit impossible shots is UNMATCHED!! plus i believe Kobe in his prime is the only player other than Wilt who had no scoring ceiling!

John Walls Era
04-09-2011, 04:32 PM
The year he got 81 was insane. How many 50+ pt games did he have?

tyfreaks brotha
04-09-2011, 04:50 PM
Laker fans new escuse: He played Vs. little people hahahahaha

tyfreaks brotha
04-09-2011, 04:51 PM
I put Kobe at #2 behind MJ....

That seems like a fair choice

nickdymez
04-09-2011, 05:03 PM
Laker fans new escuse: He played Vs. little people hahahahaha

You know Wilt played for the lakers too right?

_KB24_
04-09-2011, 05:04 PM
Their is no way that Wilt was a better scorer than Kobe. I don't even see Wilt averaging 30 if he was to switch eras with Shaq from lets say 95 to 05.

Kingz4L
04-09-2011, 05:23 PM
81>69

37.1 > 35.4

knicks4life33
04-09-2011, 05:29 PM
top 5

Purple&Gold24
04-09-2011, 05:34 PM
MJ and Wilt are both better, but Kobe has got to be top 5

Whos your #3?

FOBolous
04-09-2011, 05:39 PM
LOL :laugh:

this poll is hilarious. Kobe is DEFINITELY NOT #1 or is he #2. top 5 maybe but definitely not #1 or #2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_season_sco ring_leaders

Michael Jordan is he CLEARLY #1. He led the league in scoring a whooping TEN times. He also averaged over 30 ppg NINE times in his career.

Kobe only appeared on that list twice compare to Allen Iverson who's on that list FOUR times. The frequency of Kobe leading the league in scoring is on par with Tracy McGrady and Shaquille O'Neal.

Another way you can look at how great of a scorer a player is compared to other plays is look at how many times they averaged over 30 ppg during their career. Kobe accomplished this three times over the span of his 15 years career. Jordan accomplished this feat NINE times while Allen Iverson accomplished this feat FIVE times. Lebron is close to matching Kobe's accomplishment and he's only been in the league for 8 years compared to Kobe's 15.

JordansBulls
04-09-2011, 05:40 PM
Top 3 as a scorer. Still not as good as MJ. If you want to say more explosive scorer when hot that is different, but as a scorer plain and simple MJ was the best.


Highest PPG Average: 30.12
Most seasons leading league in Points: 11
Most scoring titles: 10
Highest PER Efficiency: 27.91
Also, MJ is no doubt the greatest playoff performer and IMO he was the greatest Road Player Ever. Most of his greatest feats happened on the road.
The Playoffs is where you make your name and where greatness is defined.

Playoffs

Most Points Per Game (min. 25 games)
33.4 by Michael Jordan (179 games)

Most Points in a Game
63 by Michael Jordan

Most 50 Point Games
8 by Michael Jordan

Most 40 Point Games
38 by Michael Jordan

Most 30 Point Games
109 by Michael Jordan

Most 20 Point Games
174 by Michael Jordan (he played 179 playoff games and scored under 20 only 5 times)
-Highest PER Efficiency Playoffs: 28.59

In the Playoffs Kobe has 1 game of 50+ and 10 games of 40+ in 12 years. MJ got 8 games of 40+ in one postseason alone and he has more than double the 50+ point games and more than double the 40+ point games than any player in NBA History for the Playoffs (where everything matters)



Most Career 40+ Point Games in Playoffs History

1. MJ = 38
2. West = 20
3. Baylor = 14
4. Wilt = 13
5. Shaq = 12
6. Hakeem = 11
Kobe = 11
Iverson = 10
9. Lebron = 9


Most Career 30+ Point Games in Playoffs History
MJ - 109
Kobe - 78
Kareem - 75
West -74
Baylor - 60



MJ:
NBA Regular-season records Michael Jordan holds:
-Most seasons leading league in scoring: 10
-Highest scoring average, career: 30.12ppg
-Most consecutive points, one game: 23
-Most seasons leading league in field goals made: 10
-Most consecutive gms in double figures in scoring:
866
-Most consecutive seasons leading PER: 7
-Highest career PER: 27.91
-Oldest player to score 40+ points: age 40 (43 pts)
-Oldest player to score 50+ points: age 38 (51 pts)
NBA Regular-season records Michael Jordan shares:
-Most consecutive seasons leading league in scoring:
7 (tied with Wilt Chamberlain)
-Most consecutive seasons, 2,000 plus points: 11 (Tied
with Malone)

NBA Playoff records Michael Jordan holds:
-Highest scoring average, career: 33.4ppg
-Record Total points: 5987
-Record Most FTS made: 1463
-Most points playoffs, one-game: 63
-Most points playoffs, three-game series: 135 (vs.
Miami, 1992)
-Most Points playoffs, five-game series: 226 (vs.
Cleveland, 1988)
-Most field goals made playoffs, three-game series:
53 (vs. Miami, 1992)
-Most field goals made playoffs, five-game series: 86
(vs. Philadelphia, 1990)
-Most field goals made playoffs, six-game series: 101
(vs. Phoenix, 1993)
-Most consecutive 50pt games: 2
-Most consecutive 45pt games: 3
-Most consecutive games, 20 plus points: 60
-Most free throws made, one quarter: 13
-Most free throws attempted, one quarter: 14
-Most 50 point games: 8
-Most 40 point games: 39
-Most consecutive points: 23
NBA Playoff records Michael Jordan shares:
-Most field goals, in a game: 24 (vs. Cleveland, May
1, 1988; tied with two others)
-Most three-point field goals made, one half: 6
(first half vs. Portland, June 3, 1992; tied with four
others)
NBA Finals records Michael Jordan holds:
- Highest Scoring average: 33.6
-Most points, six-game series: 246 (vs. Phoenix,
1993)
-Most field goals made, five-game series: 63 (vs.
L.A. Lakers, 1991)
-Most field goals made, six-game series: 101 (vs.
Phoenix, 1993)
-Most steals, five-game series: 14 (vs. L.A. Lakers,
1991)
-Highest scoring average, one series: 41.0 (vs.
Phoenix, 1993)
-Most consecutive games, 40-plus points: 4 (June 11,
1993 to June 18, 1993)
-Most consecutive 30 point games: 9
-Most consecutive games, 20-plus points: 29 (June 22,
1991 to June 1997)
-Most points, one-half: 35 (vs. Portland, June 3,
1992)
-Most consecutive field goals: 13 (Vs. LA)
-Most consecutive points: 23 (Vs. Seattle)
-Most Finals MVPs: 6

Here is Kobe's
KOBE:
NBA Regular-season records Kobe holds:
-All-rookie game (now defunct): 31 points
NBA Regular-season records Kobe Shares:
-Most 3 pointers in one game: 12 (shared with 1
player)
-Most 3 pointers in one half: 8 (5 players)
-Most consecutive 3 pointers: 9 (2 players)
-Most free throws made in one quarter: 14 (5 players)
-Most free throws attempted one quarter: 16 (6
players)
NBA Playoff Records Kobe holds:
-NONE
NBA Playoff Records Kobe Shares:
-NONE
NBA Finals records Kobe holds:
-NONE
NBA Finals records Kobe Shares:
-NONE


Conclusion: MJ still owns the most
scoring records as well as ALMOST ALL THE PLAYOFF
Records. Take a look at the all time scoring feats at
the bottom. MJ has 21 of them and the most important
ones, Wilt has 16, Kobe has 1. Take away Wilt and MJ
climbs to 26 and Kobe has 8. Below that are MJ's
records and KB's records. Not even close.
Here's a list of ALL-TIME SCORING RECORDS.
- Highest career scoring average: MJ 30.12
- Highest career playoff scoring average: MJ 33.4
- Highest career Finals scoring average: MJ 33.6
- Highest single season scoring average: Wilt 50.4
- Highest single series playoff average: West 46.3
- Highest single Finals series average: MJ 41.0
- Most seasons leading league in scoring: MJ 10
- Most consecutive seasons leading in scoring: MJ,
Wilt tied at 7
- Most 50 point games: Wilt 118
- Most 50 point games playoffs: MJ 8
- Most 40 point games: Wilt 271
- Most 40 point games playoffs: MJ 42
- Most consecutive 60 point games: Wilt 4
- Most consecutive 50 point games: Wilt 7
- Most consecutive 50 point games in playoffs: MJ 2
- Most consecutive 45 point games: Wilt 7
- Most consecutive 45 point games playoffs: MJ 3
- Most consecutive 40 point games: Wilt 14
- Most consecutive 40 point games rookie: AI 5
- Most consecutive 40 point games playoffs: West 6
- Most consecutive 40 point games finals: MJ 4
- Most consecutive 35 point games: Wilt 33
- Most consecutive 30 point games: Wilt 65
- Most consecutive 30 point games playoffs: Elgin 11
- Most consecutive 30 point games finals: MJ 9
- Most consecutive 20 point games: Wilt 126
- Most consecutive 20 point games playoffs: MJ 60
- Most consecutive 20 point games finals: MJ 35
- Most consecutive double figures scoring: MJ 866
- Most consecutive points in one game: MJ 23
- Most consecutive points in one game playoffs: MJ 23
- Highest scoring game: Wilt 100
- Highest scoring game playoffs: MJ 63
- Highest scoring game finals: Elgin 61
- Highest scoring game rookie: Wilt 58
- Highest scoring all-star game: Wilt 42
- Highest scoring all-rookie game: Kobe 31
- Most points in 3 quarters: Wilt 69
- Most points in one half: Wilt 59
- Most points one half playoffs: Sleepy Floyd 39
- Most points in one half finals: MJ 35
- Most points one half all-star game: Rice 24
- Most points in one quarter: Gervin 33
- Most points in one quarter playoffs: Sleepy Floyd 29
- Most points in one quarter finals: Isiah 25
- Most points in one quarter all-star game: Rice 20
- Most points in OT: Arenas 16
- Most points in OT playoffs: Drexler 13
- Most points in OT in finals: Havlicek, Laimbeer,
Ainge tied at 9
- Oldest to score 50: MJ 51 at age 38
- Oldest to score 40: MJ 43 at age 40


The only thing Kobe really has on Jordan is the 3 pt range (which
Jordan was not bad at when he decided to take them, but onyl shot 1.66
a game on his career, Kobe is at 3.5), and arguably a better handle
(and Jordan had a really good handle, just wasn't and1 stuff). Jordan
is more creative in the lane, a better finisher, better mid-range and
in the post, the better passer, better offensive rebounder, shot
higher percentages, and turned it over less. Yes, Kobe is insane and
one of the best guys in the league right now...but better than
Mike? I think that's going too far.
And why is Jordan not getting credit for better shot selection?
Decision making isn't a skill?
Jordan 87-93 was pretty special, over 7 seasons he averaged 33.2 ppg
on 52% from the field. Again, that's a 7 season average. Looking at
points per 100 possessions, Jordan torches Kobe. Kobe has averaged 111
on his career (excluding this season), topping out at 114. Jordan
averaged 118 on his career (11 above the league average in those
seasons), hitting 125, and with 5 seasons at 123+. In 96 he was 24
pp100p better than the league average. Kobe at his best was 12 above
the league average (and 7 above league average on his career).
I don't know what world we are living in when better efficiency on a
larger volume, with better decision making, passing, less turnovers,
better offensive rebounding, post game, mid-range game, creating shots
and finishing in the lane, superior strength and athleticism, is all
outweighed by having more range. Personally, I think it is likely
Jordan could have developed similar range, but it would take away from
a deadly efficient, well balanced game. The differences in the skill
level aren't big, but all things considered, one player is definitely
better than the other.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2002/playoffs/top_individual_points/
Top Playoff Single-Game Scoring Performances
Player Team Opponent Total Date
Michael Jordan Chicago at Boston 63 April 20, 1986
Elgin Baylor L.A. Lakers at Boston 61 April 14, 1962
Wilt Chamberlain Philadelphia Syracuse 56 March 22, 1962
Michael Jordan Chicago at Miami 56 April 29, 1992
Charles Barkley Phoenix at Golden State 56 May 4, 1994
Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 55 May 1, 1988
Michael Jordan Chicago Phoenix 55 June 16, 1993
Michael Jordan Chicago Washington 55 April 27, 1997
John Havlicek Boston Atlanta 54 April 1, 1973
Michael Jordan Chicago New York 54 May 31, 1993
Allen Iverson Philadelphia Toronto 54 May 9, 2001
Wilt Chamberlain Philadelphia Syracuse 53 March 14, 1960
Jerry West L.A. Lakers Boston 53 April 23, 1969
Jerry West L.A. Lakers Baltimore 52 April 5, 1965
Allen Iverson Philadelphia Toronto 52 May 16, 2001
Sam Jones Boston at New York 51 March 28, 1967
Eric Floyd Golden State L.A. Lakers 51 May 10, 1987
Bob Cousy Boston Syracuse 50* March 21, 1953
Bob Petit St. Louis Boston 50 April 12, 1958
Wilt Chamberlain Philadelphia at Boston 50 March 22, 1950
Wilt Chamberlain San Francisco St. Louis 50 April 10, 1964
Billy Cunningham Philadelphia Milwaukee 50 April 1, 1970
Bob McAdoo Buffalo Washington 50 April 18, 1975
Dominique Wilkins Atlanta Detroit 50 April 19, 1986
Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 50 April 28, 1988
Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 50^ May 5, 1989
Karl Malone Utah Seattle 50 April 22, 2000
Vince Carter Toronto Philadelphia 50 May 11, 2001
*4 overtimes
^overtime


NBA PLAYOFFS HIGH SCORING GAME BY YEAR
1946-47 - 37 Joe Fulks, PHW vs CHI at PHW 16Apr47
1947-48 - 34 Connie Simmons, BLT vs NYK at BLT 27Mar48
1948-49 - 42 George Mikan, MPL vs WSC 4Apr49 @ MPL
1949-50 - 40 George Mikan, MPL vs SYR at MPL 23Apr50
1950-51 - 41 George Mikan, MPL vs IDS at MPL 21Mar51
1951-52 - 47 George Mikan, MPL at ROC 29Mar52
1952-53 - 50 Bob Cousy, BOS vs SYR at BOS 21Mar53
1953-54 - 36 Dolph Schayes, SYR at NYK 21Mar54
1954-55 - 32 Bill Sharman, BOS at SYR 24Mar55
1955-56 - 43 Neil Johnson, PHW at SYR 25Mar56
1956-57 - 42 Bob Leonard, MPL vs STL at MPL 25Mar57
1957-58 - 50 Bob Pettit, STL vs BOS at STL 12Apr58
1958-59 - 40 Cliff Hagan, STL vs MPL at STL 21Mar59
1959-60 - 53 Wilt Chamberlain, PHW vs SYR at PHW 14Mar60
1960-61 - 47 Elgin Baylor, LAL at DET 18Mar61
............... 47 Elgin Baylor, LAL at STL 27Mar61
1961-62 - 61 Elgin Baylor, LAL at BOS 14Apr62
1962-63 - 47 Sam Jones, BOS vs CIN at BOS 10Apr63
1963-64 - 50 Wilt Chamberlain, SFW vs STL at SFW 10Apr64
1964-65 - 52 Jerry West, LAL vs BAL at LAL 3Apr65
1965-66 - 46 Wilt Chamberlain, PHI vs BOS at PHI 12Apr66
1966-67 - 55 Rick Barry, SFW vs PHI at SFW 18Apr67
1967-68 - 46 Zelmo Beaty, STL vs SFW 23Mar68 @ STL
1968-69 - 53 Jerry West, LAL vs BOS at LAL 23Apr69
1969-70 - 50 Billy Cunningham, PHI vs MIL at PHI 1Apr70
1970-71 - 39 Gail Goodrich, LAL at CHI 28Mar71
1971-72 - 43 John Havlicek BOS at ATL 31Mar72
1972-73 - 54 John Havlicek, BOS vs ATL at BOS 1Apr73
1973-74 - 44 Bob McAdoo, BUF vs BOS 6Apr74 at BUF
............... 44 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, MIL at CHI 18Apr74
1974-75 - 50 Bob McAdoo, BUF vs WAS at BUF 18Apr75
1975-76 - 45 Fred Brown, SEA vs PHO at SEA 15Apr76
1976-77 - 45 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, LAL vs GSW at LAL 29Apr77
1977-78 - 46 George Gervin, SAN vs WAS at SAN 18Apr78
1978-79 - 42 George Gervin, SAN vs WAS at SAN 11May79
............... 42 George Gervin, SAN at WAS 18May79
1979-80 - 44 George Gervin, SAN vs HOU at SAN 4Apr80
1980-81 - 42 Calvin Murphy, HOU at SAN 17Apr81
............... 42 Moses Malone, HOU vs KCK at HOU 26Apr81
1981-82 - 39 George Gervin, SAN vs LAL at SAN 14May82
............... 39 Andrew Toney, PHI vs BOS at PHI 16May82
1982-83 - 42 Alex English, DEN vs PHO at PHO 24Apr83
............... 42 George Gervin, SAN at DEN 26Apr83
1983-84 - 46 Bernard King, NYK at DET 19Apr84
............... 46 Bernard King, NYK vs DET at NYK 22Apr84
1984-85 - 43 Rolando Blackman, DAL vs POR at DAL 18Apr85
............... 43 Larry Bird, BOS vs DET at BOS 8May85
1985-86 - 63 Michael Jordan, CHI at BOS 20Apr86
1986-87 - 51 Sleepy Floyd, GSW vs LAL at GSW 10May87
1987-88 - 55 Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE at CHI 1May88
1988-89 - 50 Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE at CHI 5May89
1989-90 - 49 Michael Jordan, CHI at PHI 11May90
1990-91 - 46 Michael Jordan, CHI at PHI 10May91
1991-92 - 56 Michael Jordan, CHI at MIA 29Apr92
1992-93 - 55 Michael Jordan, CHI vs PHO at CHI 16Jun93
1993-94 - 56 Charles Barkley, PHO at GSW 4May94
1994-95 - 48 Michael Jordan, CHI at CHA 28Apr95
1995-96 - 46 Michael Jordan, CHI at NYK 11May96
1996-97 - 55 Michael Jordan, CHI vs WAS at CHI 27Apr97
1997-98 - 45 Michael Jordan, CHI at UTA 14Jun98
1998-99 - 37 Tim Duncan, SAN at LAL 22May99
............... 37 Scottie Pippen, HOU vs LAL at HOU 13May99
............... 37 Shaquille O'Neal, LAL vs HOU at HOU 15May99
............... 37 Allen Iverson, PHI vs ORL at PHI 15May99
1999-00 - 50 Karl Malone, UTA vs SEA at UTA 22Apr00

-----

ALL-TIME HIGHEST SCORING AVERAGES, NBA PLAYOFFS
Jerry West, LAL vs BAL, 1965..... 46.3
Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE, 1988..... 45.2
Michael Jordan, CHI vs MIA, 1992..... 45.0

ALL-TIME HIGHEST SCORING AVERAGES, NBA CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES/NBA FINALS
Michael Jordan, CHI vs PHO, 1993..... 41.0
Rick Barry, SFW vs PHI, 1965..... 40.8
Elgin Baylor, LAL vs BOS, 1962..... 40.6


Also MJ has 6 series in the playoffs over 40+ ppg.

And for people using the era difference, if that is the case why is Iverson 2nd all time in PPG in the PLAYOFFS?





Pts/75 Possessions
34.9 - Jordan 87 (+2.4 TS%)
34.2 - Kobe 06 (+2.4)
32.7 - Jordan 88 (+6.5%)
32.3 - Jordan 93 (+2.8%)
32.1 - Jordan 90 (6.9%)
32.1 - Jordan 91 (7.1%)
31.9 - Jordan 96 (5.8%)
31.8 - Gervin 82 (2.4%)
31.7 - King 85 (4.2%)
31.5 - McGrady 03 (4.5%)
31.4 - Wade 09 (3.0%)
31.2 - Jordan 97 (3.1%)
30.6 - LeBron 09 (4.7%)
30.5 - K. Malone 90 (8.9%)
30.3 - Wilkins (-0.4%)
30.0 - Jordan 89 (7.7%)

Other Notables (Under 30 pts/75 - numbers rounded up)...
30.0 - LeBron 10 (6.1%)
30.0 - Shaq 98 (6.3%)
30.0 - Shaq 95 (4.5%)
30.0 - K. Malone 97 (6.4%)
29.8 - Kobe 07 (3.9%)
29.6 - LeBron 08 (2.8%)
29.6 - LeBron 06 (3.3%)
29.4 - Wade 10
29.1 - K. Malone 98 (7.3%)
28.9 - Gervin 80 (5.6%)
28.7 - Shaq 00 (5.5%)
28.3 - Kobe 09 (1.7%)
28.2 - Bird 88 (7.0%)28.1 - Kobe 03 (3.7%)
28.1 - Wilt 62 (5.7%)
27.7 - Wade 06 (4.2%)
27.6 - King 84 (7.6%)
26.8 - Hakeem 95 (3.4%)
26.7 - McAdoo 75 (6.7%)
26.0 - Dr. J 80 (3.7%)
25.4 - Kareem 72 (9.9%)
25.3 - Barry 75 (0.7%)
24.7 - Baylor 62 (1.3%)
23.9 - Thompson (6.3%)
23.4 - West 65 (9.3%)

PLAYOFFS (Min 2 series, since 1980 only)
35.7 - James 09 (7.4%)
34.7 - Jordan 93 (7.1%)
33.9 - Jordan 90 (5.0%)
33.4 - Jordan 98 (1.6%)
33.4 - Jordan 92 (2.7%)
33.0 - Jordan 88 (5.9%)
32.6 - Jordan 89 (6.2%)
32.6 - Shaq 98 (7.5%)
32.0 - Gervin 82
31.8 - King 84 (8.0%)
31.4 - Jordan 91 (5.3%)
31.3 - Jordan 96 (2.6%)
31.0 - Jordan 97 (-1.1%)
30.9 - Jordan 95 (0.6%)
30.8 - Shaq 97 (1.7%)
30.5 - Hakeem 95 (0.9%)
30.4 - Wlikins 88 (-1.2%)

Notable Single Series Pts/75 (since 1977)
35.7 - Jordan 86 (4.0%) v Bos
34.9 - Hakeem 88 (10.2%) v Dal
32.2 - Kobe 10 v Pho
32.1 - Shaq 00 v Ind
31.8 - Wade 06 v Dal
31.2 - Wade 10 (10.7%) v Bos
31.2 - Wade 09 (2.1%) v Atl
29.5 - McGrady 03 v Det
27.4 - McAdoo 75 v Was

Others
28.3 - Kareem 77
27.8 - K. Malone 98
24.2 - Bird 84
23.2 - Thompson 78



http://elgee35.wordpress.com/2011/01/28/top-scoring-rate-seasons-in-nba-history/


Unfortunately, Basketball-Reference doesn’t have a pace-adjusted scoring metric. I normalize most of my stats to an estimated 75 possessions played, which for points produces a “scoring rate,” per se. For instance, Wilt Chamberlain averaged over 50 points per game in 1962. But he played more than 130 possessions a game using the simple method of pace estimation. That comes out to about 28.1 pts/75, not enough to make the cut here.

Up to that point in NBA history, Chamberlain’s number was the highest scoring rate. Individual players just didn’t score as much — teams were more balanced before expansion and the advent of the 3-point line. So Wilt’s season did stand out in its time. For comparison, some other notable pre-1980 players and their highest career mark:

Bob McAdoo 26.7 in 1975.
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 25.4 in 1972.
Rick Barry 25.3 in 1975.
Tiny Archibald 25.0 in 1973.
Elgin Baylor, 24.7 in 1962.
Jerry West 23.4 in 1965.
Oscar Robertson 21.5 in 1968.
Listed below are the top scoring rate seasons in NBA history, measured in points scored per 75 possessions. “Rel TS%” is True Shooting% (TS%) relative to the league average. For example, if league average is 50% TS, and a player boasted a TS% of 53%, he would have a Rel TS% of 3%.

Regular Season

http://elgee35.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/top-scoring-rates-regular-season.jpg?w=353&h=648


Yes, Michael Jordan owns seven of the eight best normalized scoring seasons ever. Not too shabby. Two other names that might surprise people are LeBron James and Karl Malone. Malone has three top-30 seasons, all at ridiculous shooting efficiency. James was a scoring machine before winning his first MVP, and holds four top-30 seasons.

What about playoff rates? Let’s only consider players who have played in at least two postseason series in a given playoff. If we do that, we get the following select club over 30 pts/75:

Playoffs (minimum 2 series played)

http://elgee35.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/top-playoff-scoring-rates1.jpg?w=348&h=367

Again, MJ occupies more than half of the list, with LeBron’s 2009 epic playoff run topping the list. Some notable single-series performances that did not qualify: Jordan vs. Boston in 1986 (35.7 pts/75), Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Dallas in 1988 (34.9) and Dwyane Wade in 2009 (vs. Atlanta) and 2010 (vs. Boston) posted 31.2 pts/75 in both series.

Kevj77
04-09-2011, 05:53 PM
I think he was in his best years if that is all we're counting the top scorer ever. If it's over his whole career he is behind MJ. The difference between them is that MJ was stronger and had (as Phil always points out when people ask him to compare the two) huge hands. That made Jordan much better around the rim and most likely is the reason for the large gap between their shooting percentage. Kobe is the slightly better mid-range player and a better 3 point shooter. Kobe does take a lot more bad shots then Jordan ever did, which is another reason for his lower shooting percentage.

TO to the CHI
04-09-2011, 05:54 PM
Domination.

Chi StateOfMind
04-09-2011, 06:00 PM
number 1 IMO he was a better scorer during that time

stawka
04-09-2011, 06:00 PM
JB>Life

That post was ****ing epic. Shut PSD down while we're at it

cmellofan15
04-09-2011, 06:04 PM
81>69

100>81

Swashcuff
04-09-2011, 06:08 PM
MJ and Wilt are both better, but Kobe has got to be top 5

This

lakeshow3peat
04-09-2011, 06:08 PM
THis is too funny i am just going to say how can you compare the two when Kobes career hasnt be completed come on just doesnt make sense . But to answer this question MJ is Number 1 but Kobe is going to be # 2 he might sneak into 1 but like i said his career is no where near done .

French totem
04-09-2011, 06:12 PM
#1

His only competition is Wilt, and Wilt played against very little people

ok, are you on drugs ? :facepalm:

French totem
04-09-2011, 06:14 PM
It may be hard for MJ fans to handle but Kobe is the best scoring guard of all time!!

MJ was a better pure athlete and because of his strengh and thick body he was better goint to the rim.

But Kobe is a superior ballhandler and defenitely a better pure shooter(12 3's in a game!!nba record) and his ability to hit impossible shots is UNMATCHED!! plus i believe Kobe in his prime is the only player other than Wilt who had no scoring ceiling!

dont quit school, son !! geez some people on here are really either dumb or even dumber than i thought :facepalm:

Chacarron
04-09-2011, 06:15 PM
Top 5, but more like top 3.

Khalifa21
04-09-2011, 06:17 PM
Top 5.

He's not above MJ or Wilt.

basketfan4life
04-09-2011, 06:29 PM
people please stop with the mj lead the league 9 times, or kobe's career isn't over thing...for this question kobe's career is over cause he ain't get better scoring wise and already worse than 2005-2007...i'm just asking when he was at his best,have we seen better scorers?if yes, how many?simple as that.

basketfan4life
04-09-2011, 06:31 PM
also please stop calling people who thinks kobe in 2005-2007 is the best scorer this league has ever seen, dumb or anything.cause whoever you think is the best,there is no huge gap between number 1 and 2.

Ty Fast
04-09-2011, 06:32 PM
81>69

mj's 63 againts boston was better than kobes 81.

Ty Fast
04-09-2011, 06:33 PM
mj
wilt
kareem
kobe

Swashcuff
04-09-2011, 06:45 PM
people please stop with the mj lead the league 9 times, or kobe's career isn't over thing...for this question kobe's career is over cause he ain't get better scoring wise and already worse than 2005-2007...i'm just asking when he was at his best,have we seen better scorers?if yes, how many?simple as that.

IMO it's unfair to compare any player's peak to others career.

That is the reason why so many posters have taken the point of MJs longevity as a dominating scorer. If we compare Gervin's peak as a scorer to say Jerry West's career we really won't have much of a debate.

I hear where you are coming from and I fully understand but I think you should not lambaste posters who bring up what MJ/Wilt accomplished over their respective careers.

IMO at Kobe's peak we have seen better scorers in Michael Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain (well I didn't see Wilt but you get what I am saying).

Saad
04-09-2011, 06:48 PM
I think many of you guys missed the point of the thread..
OP is asking at that time, the scoring tare that Kobe was on, what does that Rank him all time.

Also, OP asks to not include Wilt. So I will put Kobe at top two. Behind Jordan.
Jordon could score so easily and he just got the basket so easily.

But as far as explosiveness on the offensive end. I think that goes to Kobe. When he's feeling it. Watch out. I think Phil mentions it once. He says that Kobe will just go on Scoring sprees where he will just demolish the other team on the offensive end regardless of who that other team is, while Micheal would save his best performances for when they mattered.

Law25
04-09-2011, 06:59 PM
Personaly i think Kobe's 02/03 scoring outputs was the most exciting i have ever witness he completly dominated teams. Go on youtube an watch his 40 point streak or just the highlights the kid was amazing, but i put him at 2 puting only the Big O ahead. I love M.J and believe in ways he's the better player by an small margin, but the boy recieved so many calls some games were hard to watch. Watching Kobe was more exciting from 97 to 2010. This year has been tuff, because of the abuse he takes game in game out with the benefit of the call ( see games against the Heat and the Thunder), but thats another topic.

I'm okay with top 5 with no particular order, because its really to close to call.

West
Kareem
Big O
Jordan
Kobe

Jewelz0376
04-09-2011, 07:03 PM
I couldn't put Wilt in front of Kobe.... Imo it'd be like comparing a prolific scorer at a lowel level d1 school to a prolific scorer at an elite d1 school...

Crackadalic
04-09-2011, 07:24 PM
Jordanbulls just laid it down in the post.

Kobe is top 5 but not top 2 for sure.

FOBolous
04-09-2011, 07:33 PM
people please stop with the mj lead the league 9 times, or kobe's career isn't over thing...for this question kobe's career is over cause he ain't get better scoring wise and already worse than 2005-2007...i'm just asking when he was at his best,have we seen better scorers?if yes, how many?simple as that.

Jordan is still #1. 37.1 pts on 48% shooting. That's an incredible amount of points on incredibly efficient shooting. NO ONE can top that. NO ONE can score so many points with such efficiency like Mike could. NO ONE.

psperry34116
04-09-2011, 07:38 PM
Unquestionably the best ever. Wilt was going up against men half his size, and he was near the basket everytime. Heck, I would go as far as saying that Kareem was the best big man scorer off all-time since he had that unstoppable 15-ft sky hook shot.

And I would put Kobe ahead of MJ for the simple fact that you can talk about all the 3pt field goal %s, but MJ was never really feared beyond the arch...Kobe was and at times still is. In his best days, Kobe could hit a string of 6 or 7 consecutive 3 pt shots. The only real advantage MJ had over Kobe was the size of his hands, where he could palm the ball, absorb contact, and yet easily make the basket for a 3pt opportunity.

Im sorry, but when did 3pt fg% become more important than fg %. Jordan didnt score from the perimeter because he didnt need too. He could score 2s any time he wanted. The guy shot 50 percent for his career and averaged over thirty points. Thats 5 more points and 5 percent more than Kobe. Find me a 2 guard who scored at a better rate than Jordan.

You can say you think that hes better, but in no way is it even close to unquestionable.

Swashcuff
04-09-2011, 07:38 PM
37.1 > 35.4

In Jordan's 86-87 season in which he averaged 37.1 the most for his career he had... Eight 50 point games with a season high of 61 which he did twice, Thirty Sever 40 point games and Sixty Seven 30 point games.

He had a FG% of 48.2 a TS% of 56.2,an EFG% 48.2 and an ORtg of 117 with a 38.3 USG%.

He also set the modern day record of consecutive 25+ point games in this season (something he went on to do again in his career) with his 40 straight games of 25+ points.

It can be argued however that this wasn't even his best offensive season though it was the season in which he averaged and scored the most points of his career.

He certainly wasn't at his best in terms of offensive repertoire and and mid to long shooting ability. Had he been in this situation with the Bulls in his 6th season in the league instead of his 3rd we may have seen him average over 40 that season. Kobe and MJ were virtually was in the same situation as MJ when they had their best seasons in terms of scoring. Kobe was way more mature in his offensive skill set than MJ was at the time.

In his 05-06 season Kobe had Six 50 point games (The Epic 81 and 62 in 3 included in that of course), Twenty Seven 40 point games and Fifty Six 30 point games.

His FG% was 45% and it should be noted that he had a much better 3 point game than MJ at those points in their respective careers he shot 34.7% from the arc, his TS% was 55.9% and an EFG% 49.1 he also had an ORtg of 114 and a USG% of 38.7%.

What we can tell by this comparison is that while Kobe did have much better showings than MJ (81, 62 in 3) than MJ he was not able to sustain such a high level of offensive production over a lengthy period of time. All these numbers are exclusive of the playoffs however as MJs Bulls failed to make the playoffs that season while Kobe's Lakers did but other than a 50 point game in a loss against the Suns his offense was nothing spectacular.

Based on these two seasons I'd have to give MJ the edge.

I didn't see a 23 year old Michael Jordan live nor have I seen any form of Wilt Chamberlain other than just film and some old games here and there, so this is one of the main reasons why their statistical production is taken into strong account in my book.

IMO hypothetically speaking had MJ played on a team such as his 85 Bulls or Kobe's 05 Lakers when he was in his offensive prime he would have challenged Wilt's 100 point mark.

KingPosey
04-09-2011, 07:44 PM
Unquestionably the best ever. Wilt was going up against men half his size, and he was near the basket everytime. Heck, I would go as far as saying that Kareem was the best big man scorer off all-time since he had that unstoppable 15-ft sky hook shot.

And I would put Kobe ahead of MJ for the simple fact that you can talk about all the 3pt field goal %s, but MJ was never really feared beyond the arch...Kobe was and at times still is. In his best days, Kobe could hit a string of 6 or 7 consecutive 3 pt shots. The only real advantage MJ had over Kobe was the size of his hands, where he could palm the ball, absorb contact, and yet easily make the basket for a 3pt opportunity.

Riiiiiiight...

And Jordan definitely was feared from beyond the arc later in his career, not too mention Jordan's shooting percentages are MUCH higher than Kobe's pretty much across the board, as well as his PPG. Kobe is number 2, and isnt higher than Jordan. THAT is unquestionable.

KingPosey
04-09-2011, 07:49 PM
Personaly i think Kobe's 02/03 scoring outputs was the most exciting i have ever witness he completly dominated teams. Go on youtube an watch his 40 point streak or just the highlights the kid was amazing, but i put him at 2 puting only the Big O ahead. I love M.J and believe in ways he's the better player by an small margin, but the boy recieved so many calls some games were hard to watch. Watching Kobe was more exciting from 97 to 2010. This year has been tuff, because of the abuse he takes game in game out with the benefit of the call ( see games against the Heat and the Thunder), but thats another topic.

I'm okay with top 5 with no particular order, because its really to close to call.

West
Kareem
Big O
Jordan
Kobe

It was pretty incredible, Ill admit that, and I have K24 as #2. But if I remember right, as he started getting closer to the streak, Kobe was throwing up an absurd amounts of shots, and his shooting percentage we nt into the toilet. I believe even Phil called him out for record chasing.

notoriouzzzz
04-09-2011, 08:12 PM
MJ had no competition.. the point differential btw him and Pippen was huge. The years Kobe went insane on the league was when he wasn't playing with Shaq. Can you imagine Kobe output in his prime without Shaq on that team. Then try to imagine Jordan playing with Shaq. All the things Kobe put up with while with Shaq, MJ couldn't deal with half of it. MJ would have deferred to Shaq don't get that twisted. Shaq was too much of a dominating force. Then waiting till playoffs till Shaq was in shape.. Picture that. Kobe all along without Shaq.. WOW He could have averaged 40pts easily! So I definitely put Kobe ahead of MJ for #1.

Swashcuff
04-09-2011, 08:21 PM
MJ had no competition.. the point differential btw him and Pippen was huge. The years Kobe went insane on the league was when he wasn't playing with Shaq. Can you imagine Kobe output in his prime without Shaq on that team. Then try to imagine Jordan playing with Shaq. All the things Kobe put up with while with Shaq, MJ couldn't deal with half of it. MJ would have deferred to Shaq don't get that twisted. Shaq was too much of a dominating force. Then waiting till playoffs till Shaq was in shape.. Picture that. Kobe all along without Shaq.. WOW He could have averaged 40pts easily! So I definitely put Kobe ahead of MJ for #1.

:confused:

Didn't Kobe's offensive prime come when Smush Parker was the team's second leading scorer?

I am not a Lakers fan but any true Laker fan who knows anything about Kobe knows that mid 00s Kobe was a far more complete offensive player than his days alongside Shaq (late 90s, early 00s).

When he played as his team's primary offensive option and had his best scoring seasons of his career. He was when he was at his best in terms of offensive skill set.

If Kobe played without Shaq there is no doubt that he would have had better scoring production but was he good enough an offensive player to make as big of a difference as you are alluding to (average 40 points easily :speechless:)? I think not.

His offense benefited a lot from having Shaq on his team.

Tqafg96
04-09-2011, 08:54 PM
1. Brian Scalebrene
2. Keith Van Horn
3. Jared Jeffries
4. D.J. Mbenga
5. Kobe
/closethread

John Walls Era
04-09-2011, 08:56 PM
Props to anyone who read JB's post. I tried to read it, but only got halfway.

Weed&Football
04-09-2011, 09:03 PM
MJ > KB

kobes a beast tho

CityofChaos
04-09-2011, 09:08 PM
Top 5

5.)Kobe
4.)Shaq
3.)Wilt
2.)Jordan
1.)Kareem

anjoe29
04-09-2011, 10:23 PM
For that period of time #1, but all time, top 10

ca u please enumerate the players who are above kobe in the top ten?pls?

Dankster
04-09-2011, 10:53 PM
3rd at best....I'm stuck between putting Wilt and MJ # 1 and 2 respectively. You can't exclude the fact Chamberlain averaged 50.4 ppg in 1 full season and was constantly triple teamed for the majority of his career. MJ is MJ- he had a 6th gear no one else in the league had.

Bryant from 04-06 was fun to watch and virtually unguardable. He really improved his jumper and turn around game throughout the years which helped his overall offensive repertoire. Unfortunately the 2 other guys were historical..

Wilt was so dominant in his prime they had to enforce the FT line rule (feet have to be behind the line before hitting the rim,) and the no dunking clause...When the game has to change its laws to even the playing field for other players/teams, that's when you know you're pretty much the greatest offensive weapon in history!

wa77ss
04-10-2011, 07:51 AM
Kobe definately has the best jumper/ unlimited range of all time.....I would much more fear Kobe with the ball in the last seconds from ANYWHERE compared to MJ. But MJ was just more of a winner, and a stronger finisher. Kobe would shoot the lights out, and MJ would dunk it on you and then shoot a fadeaway. Yea kobe can dunk and get to the basket, but Ive never seen somebody besides him with double clutch fadeaway straight off the backboard go in everytime. left or right hand. hes like a black larry bird

bedford1829
04-10-2011, 08:11 AM
Kobe even now on the down slope of his career is capable of 50 any night.

Part of the reason his scoring has been down (still 25 ppg) is because he has become a more well rounded and team oriented player.

For his career he is without a doubt in the top 3 for greatest scorers of all time

basketfan4life
04-10-2011, 09:01 AM
IMO it's unfair to compare any player's peak to others career.

That is the reason why so many posters have taken the point of MJs longevity as a dominating scorer. If we compare Gervin's peak as a scorer to say Jerry West's career we really won't have much of a debate.

I hear where you are coming from and I fully understand but I think you should not lambaste posters who bring up what MJ/Wilt accomplished over their respective careers.

IMO at Kobe's peak we have seen better scorers in Michael Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain (well I didn't see Wilt but you get what I am saying).

actually,i was talking about everybody's prime,so career achievements is irrelevant...who can you say "at that point of his career" was better scorer than Kobe in 05-07? and i asked to put wilt out of comparision, because it's to hard to validate what he did,it was a totally different era...

now about jordon having 37.1 ppg,thats incredible but, we can't just look at this stat and say that was better.may be it was,and probably it was,but i don't know what was the pace of the game like...what was mj's rate of taking a shot per possession,what was kobe's...

all i know is jordon was more of a consistent scorer because his game was more dependent to inside than kobe's...but about explosiveness i think/feel Kobe has the upper hand...

Swashcuff
04-10-2011, 09:14 AM
actually,i was talking about everybody's prime,so career achievements is irrelevant...who can you say "at that point of his career" was better scorer than Kobe in 05-07? and i asked to put wilt out of comparision, because it's to hard to validate what he did,it was a totally different era...

now about jordon having 37.1 ppg,thats incredible but, we can't just look at this stat and say that was better.may be it was,and probably it was,but i don't know what was the pace of the game like...what was mj's rate of taking a shot per possession,what was kobe's...

all i know is jordon was more of a consistent scorer because his game was more dependent to inside than kobe's...but about explosiveness i think/feel Kobe has the upper hand...

Firstly the man's name is not jordon is Jordan.

Secondly I explained in detail Michael's 85-86 season and why even Kobe's best years pales in comparsion. That was Michael's 3rd season in the league and 2nd full season. Had he been in his 6th season or so when he was in that very situation (something Kobe 05-06) he could have easily averaged over 40 due the maturity of his offensive game.

Young Kobe wasn't going to get 35 a game at 22-23 if Shaq wasn't around his offense benefited a great deal from playing alongside Shaquille O'Neal. Every Laker fan and NBA fan who has ever paid attention to Kobe knows how well he developed his offensive repertoire as he got older and the season in which he was at his best he scored the most points of his career.

Kobe at his best wasn't able to show the level of consistence or average the same amount over an extended period of time as MJ. The only case that could be made for Kobe being a better scorer than MJ is 81, 62 in 3 and 12-18 from the 3. Other than that Kobe's prime offensive arsenal while is simply amazing isn't as overwhelming as MJs was.

basketfan4life
04-10-2011, 10:29 AM
Firstly the man's name is not jordon is Jordan.

Secondly I explained in detail Michael's 85-86 season and why even Kobe's best years pales in comparsion. That was Michael's 3rd season in the league and 2nd full season. Had he been in his 6th season or so when he was in that very situation (something Kobe 05-06) he could have easily averaged over 40 due the maturity of his offensive game.

Young Kobe wasn't going to get 35 a game at 22-23 if Shaq wasn't around his offense benefited a great deal from playing alongside Shaquille O'Neal. Every Laker fan and NBA fan who has ever paid attention to Kobe knows how well he developed his offensive repertoire as he got older and the season in which he was at his best he scored the most points of his career.

Kobe at his best wasn't able to show the level of consistence or average the same amount over an extended period of time as MJ. The only case that could be made for Kobe being a better scorer than MJ is 81, 62 in 3 and 12-18 from the 3. Other than that Kobe's prime offensive arsenal while is simply amazing isn't as overwhelming as MJs was.

yeah, i fully agree that mj was a more consistent scorer.but that shaq thing, ppg situations are not answers to my questions...altough i believe Kobe could have averaged 40 a game at that point...All i am saying is that Kobe could never go over 30 every single game of a season which i believe jordAn did :)...but i can't imagine of jordan pulling 81 while his team was down 20 and win that game by like 20...when he is hot, i "feel" like Kobe is on another level, again this is when he is hot, consistently mj was of course better...

it went unnoticed here but i gotta say, one of the most exiting game of kobe's carreer was when he scored 30 against jazz in the 3rd quarter without missing anything.not 2ptrs not 3's not ft's,while being defended by kirilenko who has kind of body type that bothers kobe(battier,prince,kirilenko,even durant)...long armed players taller than kobe always bothers him most and i don't know how many ridiculous fadeaways he made on kirilenko that game, which is another example of exploviness and getting hot games.

if i need a scorer for a game i'd take mj over anybody because i'd knew hot or not he can score enough, but if i've been told both guys are going to be hot, give me kobe...again i'm not comparing players like who is better cause of course i know mj is better.