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JordansBulls
04-08-2011, 11:07 AM
http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/2011/04/rondo_rivers_me.html




Rondo was visibly disappointed after the game.

"Think we need to play with a better sense of urgency," he said before his meeting with Rivers. It better be a wakeup call, if not, we wont make it far. Were a completely different team (than last year). Its not the same team. Were not going to be able to turn it on like we did year. I dont know what were waiting on but these types of games we have to find a way to win. Its a roller-caster and right now we went back down today."

Slimsim
04-08-2011, 11:11 AM
they lost their backbone when they traded Nate Robinson

k.smith904
04-08-2011, 11:22 AM
Doc wanted to make sure Ronda's ankles were ok after Rose crossed him over all night.

Bullsfan22
04-08-2011, 11:30 AM
For the most part they played solid defense against the Bulls, but we just smothered their Offense and they didn't have an answer for Rose.

It comes to a point where Rondo has to become accountable for the holes in his game. He needs to improve his mid range shot and not be scared to shoot it, he really slows down their offense. He's been in the league long enough to have improved his shooting it makes me wonder if he has tried.

I respect Rondo's unique skill-set but he's got to continue to not just improve but gain respect. The numbers says he's a better jump shooter this year the last time i saw them but it's not translating to respect because he's just not aggressive enough.

Edit: He's actually regressed since last year from 10-15 feet and improved from 16-23 feet.

ko8e24
04-08-2011, 11:34 AM
they lost their backbone when they traded Kendrick Perkins

Fixed

FlakeyFool
04-08-2011, 11:35 AM
Would probably help if Rondo could score

YoungOne
04-08-2011, 11:37 AM
last night we played like the games we lost to the bobcats or the pacers, we will play better in the playoffs, chicago will still be the biggest test..

nickdymez
04-08-2011, 11:41 AM
Would probably help if Rondo could score

Why? They have scorer's..

Bullsfan22
04-08-2011, 11:46 AM
It's easy to point out Perkins as the problem but from the looks of it they've been struggling on offense especially Ray lately. I believe their defense will pick up (maybe not the same level it once was) in the playoffs despite Perkins.

ne3xchamps
04-08-2011, 11:52 AM
Oh here we go with the trolling. non boston fan starting a celtics thread. stay classy chicago. :rolleyes:

Bullsfan22
04-08-2011, 11:52 AM
Why? They have scorer's..

They need more of it to make up for what the defensive player they lost. Yes, it sounds weird but their defense will tighten up in the playoffs trust me. But it will never be the same without perkins, if they had more fire power on Offense it would make up for what they're missing. It starts with Rondo being more aggressive, not passing up shots and forcing teams to guard him straight up.

pebloemer
04-08-2011, 11:55 AM
they lost their backbone when they traded Nate Robinson

More like they lost a meta carpal.

JonnyBrav000
04-08-2011, 11:59 AM
Celtics will be good in the playoffs, they can turn it on, however The Bulls look mean, the East will go thru Chicago, only team that can beat them are the Celtics. Would make a great series.

Damnit Knicks, pick up two bigmen this offseason, that way we can pass Miami and be up there with the Bulls and Celtics.

AIRMAR72
04-08-2011, 12:00 PM
rose played fantastic lasnite but boston after trading perkins are not the SAME TEAM these guys were late on their rotation on D allnite with perkins it seems like he always knew where the ball would go(like a young ray lewis football player) to put his hands up or strip da ball,take offensive charge, offensive rebounds close off the lane and he make big plays in key pressured moments that is no longer there i once thought they come out the east this yr but they not same team their overall team chemistry is gone

MGB
04-08-2011, 12:03 PM
Fixed

get out of my head :punish

Doogolas
04-08-2011, 12:10 PM
Eh, Rondo should have been the guy that got met with. He played horrifically. He was spun around by Rose time after time after time and it absolutely destroyed their defense on multiple occasions. What they need to do is find somebody else to guard Rose and Put Rondo on someone else. Cause last night was ugly as hell. Boston is better than that.

KingPosey
04-08-2011, 12:11 PM
I hate how everyone keeps saying its because they traded Perkins. He wasnt even playing.

chitown815
04-08-2011, 12:24 PM
I hate how everyone keeps saying its because they traded Perkins. He wasnt even playing.

he gave the best backrubs though

LakersIn5
04-08-2011, 12:26 PM
the bulls will be last years cavs, heat will be last years celtics and celtics will be last years magic.

last year people were so high on the cavs in the regular season because of the best east record and alot are also saying theyre going to make the finals but they didnt. THAT IS WHAT I THINK GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE BULLS IN THE PLAYOFFS.

last year people were somewhat high on the magic mainly due to the fact that they made the nba finals the previous year, yes they made a deep playoff run making the east finals by sweeping their 1st and 2nd round opponents but then got eliminated in the east finals. THAT IS WHAT I THINK GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE CELTICS IN THE PLAYOFFS.

last year people werent that high on the celtics because they were slacking in the regular and before the playoffs started most people were saying that they would lose to that heat in the first round but they beat the heat convincingly then beat the no.1 and no.2 seeds on their way to the nba finals. THAT IS WHAT I THINK GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE HEAT IN THE PLAYOFFS.

:p

Avenged
04-08-2011, 12:29 PM
No more Perk. They should be alright though, but that wasn't the most beneficial trade for the present.

chitown815
04-08-2011, 12:31 PM
the bulls will be last years cavs, heat will be last years celtics and celtics will be last years magic.

last year people were so high on the cavs in the regular season because of the best east record and alot are also saying theyre going to make the finals but they didnt. THAT IS WHAT I THINK GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE BULLS IN THE PLAYOFFS.

last year people were somewhat high on the magic mainly due to the fact that they made the nba finals the previous year, yes they made a deep playoff run making the east finals by sweeping their 1st and 2nd round opponents but then got eliminated in the east finals. THAT IS WHAT I THINK GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE CELTICS IN THE PLAYOFFS.

last year people werent that high on the celtics because they were slacking in the regular and before the playoffs started most people were saying that they would lose to that heat in the first round but they beat the heat convincingly then beat the no.1 and no.2 seeds on their way to the nba finals. THAT IS WHAT I THINK GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE HEAT IN THE PLAYOFFS.

:p

Sorry but your comparisons are Mentally challenged, The Bulls, if anything are closest to the Celtics last year (DEFENSE wins championships) just they are younger and more athletic, so they havent turned it off, Last years cavs could just as easily be LA

RZZZA
04-08-2011, 12:31 PM
the bulls will be last years cavs, heat will be last years celtics and celtics will be last years magic.

thats ****ing ********. I hate how people try to use the past as an indication of what will happen in the future.

NEWSFLASH: The Bulls aren't the Cavs.

ChitownSports16
04-08-2011, 12:34 PM
I hate how everyone keeps saying its because they traded Perkins. He wasnt even playing.

Tell me about it... They didnt even have Perk at the start of the season and were winning without him. It's just an excuse so they can make fans feel better. The C's ARE NOT THE SAME!

NYKSpiritBomb
04-08-2011, 12:39 PM
celtics out first round

chitown815
04-08-2011, 12:42 PM
honestly the Knicks and the Heat both lack depth for a series, I would be afraid of the Knicks if I were the Heat especially with Lebron more focused on soccer and his drunken mom

PraiseJesus
04-08-2011, 12:46 PM
Lakers vs Celtics Finals.

Relax Rondo

Young and Stupid
04-08-2011, 12:47 PM
thats ****ing ********.

It was, but...

Rzzza, I could do a lot with this (pause):


I hate how people try to use the past as an indication of what will happen in the future.


However, I'll refrain from doing so because Bulls fans are averse to logic. I hope someone else does though, I'll have my popcorn ready if -- and when -- it happens.

RZZZA
04-08-2011, 12:48 PM
there is no logic in saying because the Cavs failed last year then the Bulls are likely to fail this year. NONE

danniboi168
04-08-2011, 12:50 PM
horrible game for boston yesterday, expected a epic ending to the game.

chitown815
04-08-2011, 12:52 PM
horrible game for boston yesterday, expected a epic ending to the game.

It was the Epic Knockout punch for Rose's MVP

ChitownSports16
04-08-2011, 12:53 PM
the bulls will be last years cavs, heat will be last years celtics and celtics will be last years magic.

last year people were so high on the cavs in the regular season because of the best east record and alot are also saying theyre going to make the finals but they didnt. THAT IS WHAT I THINK GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE BULLS IN THE PLAYOFFS.

last year people were somewhat high on the magic mainly due to the fact that they made the nba finals the previous year, yes they made a deep playoff run making the east finals by sweeping their 1st and 2nd round opponents but then got eliminated in the east finals. THAT IS WHAT I THINK GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE CELTICS IN THE PLAYOFFS.

last year people werent that high on the celtics because they were slacking in the regular and before the playoffs started most people were saying that they would lose to that heat in the first round but they beat the heat convincingly then beat the no.1 and no.2 seeds on their way to the nba finals. THAT IS WHAT I THINK GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE HEAT IN THE PLAYOFFS.

:p

:facepalm: They were high on the Cavs cause of LBJ. We dont have LBJ in our team to quit on us so we should be fine.

And just cuase something happen LAST YEAR it shell happen again this year :clap:

Tarheels23
04-08-2011, 12:57 PM
Rondo has been playing like bum juice.

The Celtics are not going to go far if they have to rely on a center that plays 18 feet from the basket and doesnt know what a defensive rotation is (Kristic)

I do think last night's game was a little misleading. While the Bulls defense was very solid, most of the Celtics turnovers were not caused by the Bull defense. They were bad passes, miscues, and just plain sloppy ball handling.

FadeAwayLikeMJ
04-08-2011, 12:58 PM
Rondo's quote was right

defense was fine, but offensively terrible. in order for the celtics to beat the bulls, this needs to happen in the series

Pierce scores 20+
Shuttlesworth scores 15+
Rondo assists are at 10+
Garnett has 10+ rebounds
Big Baby and Green go combined for 20+ as well

^^

not easily done against the Chi

RZZZA
04-08-2011, 01:00 PM
How was Nenad even in the game, I remember he was injured a few days before hand. Grade 1 MCL sprain and something wrong with his ankle too.

Tarheels23
04-08-2011, 01:01 PM
:facepalm: They were high on the Cavs cause of LBJ. We dont have LBJ in our team to quit on us so we should be fine.

And just cuase something happen LAST YEAR it shell happen again this year :clap:

Yeah I dont see Rose quitting on his team either

Lim
04-08-2011, 01:54 PM
Rondo has been playing like bum juice.

The Celtics are not going to go far if they have to rely on a center that plays 18 feet from the basket and doesnt know what a defensive rotation is (Kristic)

I do think last night's game was a little misleading. While the Bulls defense was very solid, most of the Celtics turnovers were not caused by the Bull defense. They were bad passes, miscues, and just plain sloppy ball handling.

krisitc isnt even gonna see the court if both oneals are healthy for the playoffs

Tarheels23
04-08-2011, 02:19 PM
krisitc isnt even gonna see the court if both oneals are healthy for the playoffs

Well they better hope that is the case

Kashmir13579
04-08-2011, 02:22 PM
shouldn't have trade Perk and Nate imo. while Nate may be a liability sometimes i know the team was very fond of him. Perkins... well, his absence in the finals is why they didn't win it all last year... nuff said.

shep33
04-08-2011, 02:23 PM
Not concerned about the Celtics, their older guy outside of Ray, looked pretty tired yesterday. They were trying, but they looked a little run down. The Lakers and Celtics are probably two teams people shouldn't worry too much about down the stretch of the year. The only difference this year, is that they are kind of rushed in regaining that chemistry after the Perk trade. I think they should be fine. Lakers too.

Rndy
04-08-2011, 02:34 PM
lol at the guy who said Bulls are last years Cavs. I don't think a team can be more opposite. How many times have the Bulls danced around like morons? Did Cavs have anything close to a 2nd and 3rd option in Boozer and Deng?

JordansBulls
04-08-2011, 02:34 PM
the bulls will be last years cavs, heat will be last years celtics and celtics will be last years magic.

last year people were so high on the cavs in the regular season because of the best east record and alot are also saying theyre going to make the finals but they didnt. THAT IS WHAT I THINK GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE BULLS IN THE PLAYOFFS.

last year people were somewhat high on the magic mainly due to the fact that they made the nba finals the previous year, yes they made a deep playoff run making the east finals by sweeping their 1st and 2nd round opponents but then got eliminated in the east finals. THAT IS WHAT I THINK GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE CELTICS IN THE PLAYOFFS.

last year people werent that high on the celtics because they were slacking in the regular and before the playoffs started most people were saying that they would lose to that heat in the first round but they beat the heat convincingly then beat the no.1 and no.2 seeds on their way to the nba finals. THAT IS WHAT I THINK GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE HEAT IN THE PLAYOFFS.

:p

The Bulls don't have anyone who holds the ball for 18-20 seconds per possession.

latinofire21
04-08-2011, 02:36 PM
Sorry but your comparisons are Mentally challenged, The Bulls, if anything are closest to the Celtics last year (DEFENSE wins championships) just they are younger and more athletic, so they havent turned it off, Last years cavs could just as easily be LA

I have to really disagree with you. I like his comparisons. Hes not talking about the style the team plays but more so the direction they are headed going into the playoffss. The Bulls are alot like the Cavs last year going into the playoffs. Top record with all the hype of making it to the finals. I dont see them making it there though.

Celtics have the hype because of their recent history like the Magic. Very good comparison there. I think they are too old to make a meaningful playoff run. They might have a chance if they sweep int he first round to rest those legs but if they have to grind out every series there is no way they can win the whole thing.

Miami is the team everyone thinks is playing third fiddle to the other two teams and I think they have the most realistic chance of making it to the finals.

Whats great about this years playoffs is that the teams in the east can put up the competitive series the west usually put up year after year. This is going to be one hell of a playoffs from seeds 1 to 8 on the east and the west. I am looking forward to it.

shep33
04-08-2011, 02:37 PM
lol at the guy who said Bulls are last years Cavs. I don't think a team can be more opposite. How many times have the Bulls danced around like morons? Did Cavs have anything close to a 2nd and 3rd option in Boozer and Deng?

Yeah that was an odd statement lol, the Bulls are completely different in almost every way. Much better too IMO.

latinofire21
04-08-2011, 02:47 PM
Too all the people who think the comparison of bulls and cavs is ridiculous think about this. I was listening to ESPN NY talk about it and they made some pretty good arguements.

Cavs and Bulls both Defensive minded teams.

LBJ MVP - best player in the league.
Rose - Leading MVP candidates but still not as good as lebron.

Both team has 1 legitimate Superstar.

Chicago has Noah - Their lengthy workhorse on the boards.
Cleveland has Anderson Varajeo - Did the same thing Noah did with better offense.

Chicago has Carlos Boozer - pretty dominant scorer.
Cleveland has Antawn Jamison - Career 18 ppg scorer.

Chicago has Luol Deng who can on any given night give you a ton of offense but is streaky as all hell.

Cleveland had that same version of Deng in Mo Williams.

Cleveland also had Ilgauskas who was pretty much a shell of himself at that point in his career and that can be correlated to the SG spot you have.

Chicago has no standout shooting Gaurd.

Benches are similar as well. You Have Korver and Brewer and they had Hickson and Gibson.

The bench is pretty much the same.

All the poster was really trying to relate was that the teams were both the best in the regular season and as a unit proved nothing for the playoffs. When it came to the playoffs the fizzled against the team that everyone counted out because of their rocky season.

I think the comparison is pretty good on a psychological standpoint, but if you needed proof on a personnel standpoint there it is.

RZZZA
04-08-2011, 02:56 PM
is this the new talking point for the haters now, Bulls = Cavs?

It's so ******** I don't even feel like replying point by point to this argument.

Even IF the Bulls are EXACTLY like the Cavs, that doesnt mean the Bulls will fail this year exactly like the Cavs. Circumstances are totally different.

TO to the CHI
04-08-2011, 02:56 PM
Too all the people who think the comparison of bulls and cavs is ridiculous think about this. I was listening to ESPN NY talk about it and they made some pretty good arguements.

Cavs and Bulls both Defensive minded teams.

LBJ MVP - best player in the league.
Rose - Leading MVP candidates but still not as good as lebron.

Both team has 1 legitimate Superstar.

Chicago has Noah - Their lengthy workhorse on the boards.
Cleveland has Anderson Varajeo - Did the same thing Noah did with better offense.

Chicago has Carlos Boozer - pretty dominant scorer.
Cleveland has Antawn Jamison - Career 18 ppg scorer.

Chicago has Luol Deng who can on any given night give you a ton of offense but is streaky as all hell.

Cleveland had that same version of Deng in Mo Williams.

Cleveland also had Ilgauskas who was pretty much a shell of himself at that point in his career and that can be correlated to the SG spot you have.

Chicago has no standout shooting Gaurd.

Benches are similar as well. You Have Korver and Brewer and they had Hickson and Gibson.

The bench is pretty much the same.

All the poster was really trying to relate was that the teams were both the best in the regular season and as a unit proved nothing for the playoffs. When it came to the playoffs the fizzled against the team that everyone counted out because of their rocky season.

I think the comparison is pretty good on a psychological standpoint, but if you needed proof on a personnel standpoint there it is.

This post is laughable, but I will humor you with a response. The comparison is lacking from a "psychological" standpoint, but also in comparing personnel.

1. Both teams may be defensive minded, but the Bulls are the best defensive team in the league this year. The Cavs were defensive minded but weren't nearly as good as the Bulls.

2. Noah is dramatically better than Varejao at everything. There really is no comparison there. That you say Varejao is better offensively is just plain asinine.

3. Boozer is better at this stage of his career than Jamison. They also play different games and Boozer brings much more intensity.

4. How is Deng streaky? He is a defensive presence every game and his shooting has been very good all year. Mo Williams literally couldn't carry Deng's jock.

5. Thibs could coach circles around Mike Brown (this is probably the biggest thing to keep in mind).

6. Comparing the benches is just a joke. The Bulls have Thomas, Gibson, Asik, Watson, Korver, and Brewer. The Cavs' bench was both shallower and less talented.

Thanks for playing. Try again.

RZZZA
04-08-2011, 02:57 PM
Deng, streaky? He's one of our most consistent players all year, right after D.Rose.

TO to the CHI
04-08-2011, 02:57 PM
I have heard that the discussion was actually between Rivers, Rondo, and Hustlenomics and was focused on Hustle's arguments about how Rondo really is a good shooter and better than Rose. Amazingly, even Rondo agreed that this isn't true.

Chicagofaithful
04-08-2011, 03:00 PM
Too all the people who think the comparison of bulls and cavs is ridiculous think about this. I was listening to ESPN NY talk about it and they made some pretty good arguements.

Cavs and Bulls both Defensive minded teams.

LBJ MVP - best player in the league.
Rose - Leading MVP candidates but still not as good as lebron.

Both team has 1 legitimate Superstar.

Chicago has Noah - Their lengthy workhorse on the boards.
Cleveland has Anderson Varajeo - Did the same thing Noah did with better offense.

Chicago has Carlos Boozer - pretty dominant scorer.
Cleveland has Antawn Jamison - Career 18 ppg scorer.

Chicago has Luol Deng who can on any given night give you a ton of offense but is streaky as all hell.

Cleveland had that same version of Deng in Mo Williams.

Cleveland also had Ilgauskas who was pretty much a shell of himself at that point in his career and that can be correlated to the SG spot you have.

Chicago has no standout shooting Gaurd.

Benches are similar as well. You Have Korver and Brewer and they had Hickson and Gibson.

The bench is pretty much the same.

All the poster was really trying to relate was that the teams were both the best in the regular season and as a unit proved nothing for the playoffs. When it came to the playoffs the fizzled against the team that everyone counted out because of their rocky season.

I think the comparison is pretty good on a psychological standpoint, but if you needed proof on a personnel standpoint there it is.

I'd rip this argument to pieces but its just not worth all the typing i'd have to do... instead i'll let other fans handle it. but seriously those are some of the biggest stretches... its like saying

Well your best player is black.... and so was the Cav's best player.

And your team plays in the central division AS WELL AS the NBA and so did the CAVS! lol :confused:

latinofire21
04-08-2011, 03:24 PM
is this the new talking point for the haters now, Bulls = Cavs?

It's so ******** I don't even feel like replying point by point to this argument.

Even IF the Bulls are EXACTLY like the Cavs, that doesnt mean the Bulls will fail this year exactly like the Cavs. Circumstances are totally different.

I usually like reading your comments about the bulls, but i gotta say this is one of your posts that lack any merit. I am not a fan of either team and I am just giving a point of view on the perspective that I agree with. It was on the radio and I was listening to the hour show about it.

Just because people dont always agree with your points of view doesnt deem me a hater. Im simply stating how ironic it is that the team is built in the same manner and are following the same footsteps.

Never did I say they were going to be doomed like the Cavs. I said I dont see them going far into the playoffs because when teams can prepare for you knowing they will possibly be playing you for the next 7 days your going to have to rely on more then just 1 guy who creates everything for your team.

So RZZZA please dont quote my text saying your not going to even bother replying to my remarks on the subject unless your going to do so in an educational way.

Thanks

RZZZA
04-08-2011, 03:26 PM
fair enough, I apologize.

Tarheels23
04-08-2011, 03:32 PM
Ok Noah and Varejao are similar players. And I guess I can see the Boozer/Jamison comparison in that they are both undersized PFs. But I really dont see the relationship between last year's Cavs and this years Bulls.

latinofire21
04-08-2011, 03:35 PM
This post is laughable, but I will humor you with a response. The comparison is lacking from a "psychological" standpoint, but also in comparing personnel.

1. Both teams may be defensive minded, but the Bulls are the best defensive team in the league this year. The Cavs were defensive minded but weren't nearly as good as the Bulls.

2. Noah is dramatically better than Varejao at everything. There really is no comparison there. That you say Varejao is better offensively is just plain asinine.

3. Boozer is better at this stage of his career than Jamison. They also play different games and Boozer brings much more intensity.

4. How is Deng streaky? He is a defensive presence every game and his shooting has been very good all year. Mo Williams literally couldn't carry Deng's jock.

5. Thibs could coach circles around Mike Brown (this is probably the biggest thing to keep in mind).

6. Comparing the benches is just a joke. The Bulls have Thomas, Gibson, Asik, Watson, Korver, and Brewer. The Cavs' bench was both shallower and less talented.

Thanks for playing. Try again.

Again I am quoting a 1 hour show from ESPN NY on the matter. I think that you guys are getting a bit overemotional from the post. You can say its laughable and what not but the team is built the same way. 1 superstar who creates for everyone else and is defensive minded first. Teams will figure out how to shut down Rose and when they do whos going to consistently step up.

As for your remarks regarding Noah and Deng I think that your reaching. Noah is a defensive presence. His offensive game is not even close to his defensive game. Hes a rare commodity in the league. Dont try and tell me that Noah has a better offensive game then Varajeo. Varajeo I despise but the guy works the refs and gets to the line on a consistent basis. Hes a little pest in the middle of the paint just like Noah is and their game is very similar except that Varajeo is a bigger offensive threat.

Jamison and Boozer do play different positions but their role on the team is very similar. number 2 scoring option. The side kick role. The robin to Roses Batman. You can talk about different points in their career and what not I am not going to argue that but can you realistically say without any doubt that if Rose gets locked up Boozer is going to carry you through the series?

Maybe you dont even consider Boozer as your number 2 choice. Is it Deng? Is Deng going to lead you through a series if Rose gets contained? Its the same questions the Cavs had and couldnt answer last year.

I AM NOT SAYING LEBRON WAS CONTAINED LAST PLAYOFFS BECAUSE HE WENT OFF BUT HE COULD HAVE DONE A LOT MORE DAMAGE AND HE DIDNT BECAUSE THEY FOCUSED ON HIM. No one stepped up to help Lebron last year. Is the same going to happen in Chicago?

No one knows the answer its all hypotheticals. We will find out in the playoffs but until they prove something in the playoffs they will be a question mark around the league.

John Walls Era
04-08-2011, 03:37 PM
Ok Noah and Varejao are similar players. And I guess I can see the Boozer/Jamison comparison in that they are both undersized PFs. But I really dont see the relationship between last year's Cavs and this years Bulls.

Last years Cavs were a bit more dangerous. Not being a "hater", but thats the truth.

latinofire21
04-08-2011, 03:38 PM
fair enough, I apologize.

NP man. I get the same way when people go against what i believe in the Knicks forum and thats why i dont bother to post back. Just makes me look silly in the end. If you believe the analysts are wrong the Bulls can prove it in the playoffs. Just like I believe the Knicks can make a run in the east. I am really looking forward to these matchups in the east more so then the west. First time in a while that there is some real good first round matchups.

latinofire21
04-08-2011, 03:40 PM
Last years Cavs were a bit more dangerous. Not being a "hater", but thats the truth.

I agree as well. Chicago is the better defensive team but the Cavs had moments when you thought how the hell are we going to beat them.

pd1dish
04-08-2011, 03:41 PM
Why? They have scorer's..

when your PG cant knock down any jumpers, the defense can stay off of him and provide help defense on the big 3. i watched that game last night and Rose was able to help contest shots from Pierce and Allen several times. also, if Rose rotates off of Rondo, there is no hurry for anyone else to rotate to Rondo to close out the jumpshot so guys like Boozer and Noah can stay put and defend the paint.

also, Rondo missed a couple wide open layups that i can remember and im probably missing a couple other shots he should have made which were big momentum swings in the favor of the Bulls. both layups were off of steals, so it could have been a huge momentum boost for the Celtics but Rondo blows it by missing the layups.

latinofire21
04-08-2011, 03:44 PM
Ok Noah and Varejao are similar players. And I guess I can see the Boozer/Jamison comparison in that they are both undersized PFs. But I really dont see the relationship between last year's Cavs and this years Bulls.

The relationship is all hypothetical. The analyst on the radio was trying to say the bulls were being overhyped and he brought up the cavs. Same scenario: MVP of the league, similar personnel, best record in the league and when teams were able to prepare for them they had no back up plan because there was no number 2 option ready to take the workload when the number 1 option was locked down.

I see the same thing happening with Chicago because I dont really see Boozer carrying the team if Rose gets locked up. No one has had to play that role during the season so whos going to play that new role if it occurs in the playoffs.

He was arguing that the east is up for grabs regardless of the seeds and I agree. There is no clear cut favorite. All the teams with the exception of the 76ers and Pacers i think have a legitimate shot at making the eastern conference finals.

latinofire21
04-08-2011, 03:48 PM
I'd rip this argument to pieces but its just not worth all the typing i'd have to do... instead i'll let other fans handle it. but seriously those are some of the biggest stretches... its like saying

Well your best player is black.... and so was the Cav's best player.

And your team plays in the central division AS WELL AS the NBA and so did the CAVS! lol :confused:

I beg you to give me your counter arguement. I would really like to see what you think. The comparisons you made are overly simplistic. I am talking about make ups of a team and you over generalized to the point that maybe we should just measure muscle mass and the length of every players achilles tendon to equate the percentage of potential a player has or the level of excellence a player should recieve. After we make that statistic up we should divide it by the percentage of possible career ending injuries by looking at the chronic medical history of the players family tree 6 generations back to see what his lottery chances are of an ankle brake or a knee injury.

Then we should all brand our players with the team logo and make sure they play to their best ability.

Lets treat them like cows...

If your going to argue with me please do so on a logical standpoint because i know this post I just wrote is completely not logical.

Missing56&33
04-08-2011, 03:54 PM
Well they trade away their starting center from a year ago, Shaq is 50lbs overweight and stay hurt and Jermain O'neal hasn't been a good big man since Isiah Thomas got fired by the Pacers. They lost a valuable player in Perkins. I guess Big Baby gonna carry them home to another championship.

Jewelz0376
04-08-2011, 03:54 PM
I honestly can say I thought about the Bulls vs Cavs comparison before...Obviously the situation isn't exactly the same...but there are quite a few similarities..most already mentioned like Noah/Andy, DRose or bust/Lebron or Bust, defensive minded teams, etc..

TO to the CHI
04-08-2011, 03:57 PM
I beg you to give me your counter arguement. I would really like to see what you think. The comparisons you made are overly simplistic. I am talking about make ups of a team and you over generalized to the point that maybe we should just measure muscle mass and the length of every players achilles tendon to equate the percentage of potential a player has or the level of excellence a player should recieve. After we make that statistic up we should divide it by the percentage of possible career ending injuries by looking at the chronic medical history of the players family tree 6 generations back to see what his lottery chances are of an ankle brake or a knee injury.

Then we should all brand our players with the team logo and make sure they play to their best ability.

Lets treat them like cows...

If your going to argue with me please do so on a logical standpoint because i know this post I just wrote is completely not logical.


Why do you keep responding to the posts that didn't give you an explanation but continue to ignore my detailed explanation of why the comparison is heavily flawed. I can only assume it is because you realized that you are wrong.

tonyd3b54
04-08-2011, 04:00 PM
haha reading this thread makes me think that the majority of bulls fans on this site are 15 year old or less...

Sergio1984
04-08-2011, 05:14 PM
Too all the people who think the comparison of bulls and cavs is ridiculous think about this. I was listening to ESPN NY talk about it and they made some pretty good arguements.

Cavs and Bulls both Defensive minded teams.

LBJ MVP - best player in the league.
Rose - Leading MVP candidates but still not as good as lebron.

Both team has 1 legitimate Superstar.

Chicago has Noah - Their lengthy workhorse on the boards.
Cleveland has Anderson Varajeo - Did the same thing Noah did with better offense.

Chicago has Carlos Boozer - pretty dominant scorer.
Cleveland has Antawn Jamison - Career 18 ppg scorer.

Chicago has Luol Deng who can on any given night give you a ton of offense but is streaky as all hell.

Cleveland had that same version of Deng in Mo Williams.

Cleveland also had Ilgauskas who was pretty much a shell of himself at that point in his career and that can be correlated to the SG spot you have.

Chicago has no standout shooting Gaurd.

Benches are similar as well. You Have Korver and Brewer and they had Hickson and Gibson.

The bench is pretty much the same.

All the poster was really trying to relate was that the teams were both the best in the regular season and as a unit proved nothing for the playoffs. When it came to the playoffs the fizzled against the team that everyone counted out because of their rocky season.

I think the comparison is pretty good on a psychological standpoint, but if you needed proof on a personnel standpoint there it is.

Lmao, I'm sorry but that is just hilarious.

Doogolas
04-08-2011, 05:19 PM
Too all the people who think the comparison of bulls and cavs is ridiculous think about this. I was listening to ESPN NY talk about it and they made some pretty good arguements.

Cavs and Bulls both Defensive minded teams.

LBJ MVP - best player in the league.
Rose - Leading MVP candidates but still not as good as lebron.

Both team has 1 legitimate Superstar.

Chicago has Noah - Their lengthy workhorse on the boards.
Cleveland has Anderson Varajeo - Did the same thing Noah did with better offense.

Chicago has Carlos Boozer - pretty dominant scorer.
Cleveland has Antawn Jamison - Career 18 ppg scorer.

Chicago has Luol Deng who can on any given night give you a ton of offense but is streaky as all hell.

Cleveland had that same version of Deng in Mo Williams.

Cleveland also had Ilgauskas who was pretty much a shell of himself at that point in his career and that can be correlated to the SG spot you have.

Chicago has no standout shooting Gaurd.

Benches are similar as well. You Have Korver and Brewer and they had Hickson and Gibson.

The bench is pretty much the same.

All the poster was really trying to relate was that the teams were both the best in the regular season and as a unit proved nothing for the playoffs. When it came to the playoffs the fizzled against the team that everyone counted out because of their rocky season.

I think the comparison is pretty good on a psychological standpoint, but if you needed proof on a personnel standpoint there it is.

All of those comparisons suck. Atawn Jamison sucked balls last year. He was inefficient as hell and just God awful. Boozer is so much better than his washed up *** was last year it's not even funny.

Deng is not inconsistent. That rumor needs to be ****ing murdered. Not only is he not inconsistent, but he's one of the best perimeter defenders in all of basketball. Deng rarely gives "a ton of offense" and rarely gives very little.

Deng >>>>>>>>> Mo Williams, that's just a completely GOD awful comparison.

The Bulls bench is fantastic, far better than the ****** bench the Cavs had last year.

Hustlenomics
04-08-2011, 05:32 PM
I have heard that the discussion was actually between Rivers, Rondo, and Hustlenomics and was focused on Hustle's arguments about how Rondo really is a good shooter and better than Rose. Amazingly, even Rondo agreed that this isn't true.

you really think this is funny? :facepalm:

Pierzynski4Prez
04-08-2011, 05:35 PM
Most everybody agrees that if D.Rose weren't on the bulls, they would still be about a .500 team, and probably an 8 seed. Correct?

Cleveland is 17-61 without LBJ, that is quite a difference. If you want to say the bulls would be that bad, then there shouldn't even be a question about Rose being MVP and one of the best players in the league.

Otherwise, this just proves that this years Chi team is nowhere near cleveland last year. And a huge lol to the dude comparing Deng with mo Williams, boozer to Jamison at this point in his career, and Noah with Varejeo.

Not to mention the comparison on coaches is nowhere on the same level.

FadeAwayLikeMJ
04-08-2011, 05:44 PM
dont forget, we have Delonte

ask LeBronze... Delonte can cause quite the distraction... lol

SteveNash
04-08-2011, 05:45 PM
Ric Bucher also claimed that for several years LeBron's supporting cast in Cleveland was better than Rose's this year.

Clearly most are misguided.

Boston shouldn't worry too much as Chicago has several choke artists on their team.

Pierzynski4Prez
04-08-2011, 05:46 PM
Ric Bucher also claimed that for several years LeBron's supporting cast in Cleveland was better than Rose's this year.

Clearly most are misguided.

Boston shouldn't worry too much as Chicago has several choke artists on their team.

As is evident by their record in close games.

SteveNash
04-08-2011, 05:59 PM
As is evident by their record in close games.

Post season

latinofire21
04-08-2011, 06:08 PM
Why do you keep responding to the posts that didn't give you an explanation but continue to ignore my detailed explanation of why the comparison is heavily flawed. I can only assume it is because you realized that you are wrong.

Follow the thread more closely pal. I directly responded back to you in post 53.

latinofire21
04-08-2011, 06:15 PM
All of those comparisons suck. Atawn Jamison sucked balls last year. He was inefficient as hell and just God awful. Boozer is so much better than his washed up *** was last year it's not even funny.

Deng is not inconsistent. That rumor needs to be ****ing murdered. Not only is he not inconsistent, but he's one of the best perimeter defenders in all of basketball. Deng rarely gives "a ton of offense" and rarely gives very little.

Deng >>>>>>>>> Mo Williams, that's just a completely GOD awful comparison.

The Bulls bench is fantastic, far better than the ****** bench the Cavs had last year.

I dont really understand whats wrong with the comparisons. I am not basing them on a singular talent level. The ESPN analyst is comparing these teams on a structural standpoint. There is no clear number 2 superstar. There is a bunch of role players that have never been put in a situation to rise to the occasion when there number 1 is being locked up. The fact that everyone keeps ignoring that statement that I have clearly said in numerous posts is laughable.

You cant compare Antawn Jamison at this point in his career to Carlos Boozer who is in his prime, but you can compare their roles to their team. THE NUMBER 2 SCORING OPTION. I also can analyze that if Rose is having an off night I dont see Carlos Boozer carrying you to a playoff victory although I could be wrong. Thats just opinion as well as what most of the analysts say.

When you have a guy who commands the ball 24/7 and everything is run through him, if he doesnt show up your team cannot recover. Thats pretty much the arguement the analysts were putting together and I was trying to post from the hour long segment.

I dont expect Bulls fans to understand because when your a fan your judgement is clouded. I was just posting my opinion to an original posters comparison of the teams in the east.

Bullsfan22
04-08-2011, 06:18 PM
Post season

steve nash is also a choke artist that cheats on his wife.

bait for bait.

latinofire21
04-08-2011, 06:20 PM
Most everybody agrees that if D.Rose weren't on the bulls, they would still be about a .500 team, and probably an 8 seed. Correct?

Cleveland is 17-61 without LBJ, that is quite a difference. If you want to say the bulls would be that bad, then there shouldn't even be a question about Rose being MVP and one of the best players in the league.

Otherwise, this just proves that this years Chi team is nowhere near cleveland last year. And a huge lol to the dude comparing Deng with mo Williams, boozer to Jamison at this point in his career, and Noah with Varejeo.

Not to mention the comparison on coaches is nowhere on the same level.

I definitely dont agree with your first statement. D Rose is what gets your team going. Whos bringing up the ball for you if D Rose isnt on that team? Brewer? Korver? Carlos Boozer isnt signing to play in Chicago if D Rose isnt there. Joakim Noah isnt signing an extension if D Rose isnt there. That team is run through D Rose. You cant just assume without D Rose they are a 500 team. With the amount of time the ball is in that mans hands I doubt the statistics would even back that statement up. I dont follow them too closely so if I am wrong you can let me know. What statistic do you guys always use? Win shares? I think its a stupid statistic nonetheless but if everyone uses it as gospel I doubt if you take D rose off that team they are still a 500 team.

latinofire21
04-08-2011, 06:24 PM
steve nash is also a choke artist that cheats on his wife.

bait for bait.

lol every thread comes down to cheap shots lol i love it. I actually dont mind watching Bulls games but some of your fans need to take it down a notch lol. A little instense are we lol

SteveNash
04-08-2011, 06:25 PM
steve nash is also a choke artist that cheats on his wife.

bait for bait.

Steve Nash isn't a choke artist, he's just not good enough to lead a team to a championship.

theSPECIALKID
04-08-2011, 06:26 PM
Ric Bucher also claimed that for several years LeBron's supporting cast in Cleveland was better than Rose's this year.

Clearly most are misguided.

Boston shouldn't worry too much as Chicago has several choke artists on their team.


Deng/ Boozer/Rose/Noah all step up their play in the post season as evident by their career playoff numbers... I'd love it if you can name those "choke" artists on the team.....

heathonater
04-08-2011, 06:27 PM
at this point, i think boston is coasting to the playoffs and fully intend on turning it on when it counts. now whether they can turn it on in the playoffs and make another finals appearance is unknown. rondo is right about this celtics team being different from last year. kg, allen, pierce are all a year older and they no longer have perkins.

SteveNash
04-08-2011, 06:36 PM
Deng/ Boozer/Rose/Noah all step up their play in the post season as evident by their career playoff numbers... I'd love it if you can name those "choke" artists on the team.....

Rose

theSPECIALKID
04-08-2011, 06:39 PM
Rose

:laugh2: Okay I'm done here...

TO to the CHI
04-08-2011, 06:40 PM
Again I am quoting a 1 hour show from ESPN NY on the matter. I think that you guys are getting a bit overemotional from the post. You can say its laughable and what not but the team is built the same way. 1 superstar who creates for everyone else and is defensive minded first. Teams will figure out how to shut down Rose and when they do whos going to consistently step up.

As for your remarks regarding Noah and Deng I think that your reaching. Noah is a defensive presence. His offensive game is not even close to his defensive game. Hes a rare commodity in the league. Dont try and tell me that Noah has a better offensive game then Varajeo. Varajeo I despise but the guy works the refs and gets to the line on a consistent basis. Hes a little pest in the middle of the paint just like Noah is and their game is very similar except that Varajeo is a bigger offensive threat.

Jamison and Boozer do play different positions but their role on the team is very similar. number 2 scoring option. The side kick role. The robin to Roses Batman. You can talk about different points in their career and what not I am not going to argue that but can you realistically say without any doubt that if Rose gets locked up Boozer is going to carry you through the series?

Maybe you dont even consider Boozer as your number 2 choice. Is it Deng? Is Deng going to lead you through a series if Rose gets contained? Its the same questions the Cavs had and couldnt answer last year.

I AM NOT SAYING LEBRON WAS CONTAINED LAST PLAYOFFS BECAUSE HE WENT OFF BUT HE COULD HAVE DONE A LOT MORE DAMAGE AND HE DIDNT BECAUSE THEY FOCUSED ON HIM. No one stepped up to help Lebron last year. Is the same going to happen in Chicago?

No one knows the answer its all hypotheticals. We will find out in the playoffs but until they prove something in the playoffs they will be a question mark around the league.


My bad, I did overlook this earlier.

I am not saying that there is no reason to make some comparison based on the team's being led by one dominant offensive player, but there are huge gaps in the logic and significant errors in your post.

You keep asserting that Varejao is a bigger offensive threat. In this post, you argue that he knows how to work the refs and get to the line. Interestingly, Noah shoots about 1.5 times as many free throws as does Varejao and shoots free throws at a better pecentage. Otherwise they are similar in terms of involvement on the offensive end. There really is no basis for any argument that Varejao is better on that end though.

You have essentially backed off on your argument about Jamison here. That was a good move on your part. There really is no comparison between Boozer with the Bulls this year and Jamison with the Cavs last year.

As for who will take the shots if Rose is contained, there are two problems: 1. as you acknowledge it is very unlikely that he is contained. Slowed, perhaps. Contained, very unlikely. 2. The Bulls don't have to rely on Deng or Boozer or any other one player to go off in the playoffs. They have numerous other scorers. Deng and Boozer are better as second and third options than Mo Williams and Antawn Jamison. And Noah, Gibson, Brewer, Korver etc. give many options that can provide some offense and more than the other options on the Cavs (note that the Bulls bench has done a great job pulling away in games this year, which the Cavs bench did not do). The Bulls defense and coaching are also dramatically superior to the Cavs'.

The comparison is based on being a team led by one dominant offensive player. It doesn't make it any farther than that.

latinofire21
04-08-2011, 06:50 PM
My bad, I did overlook this earlier.

I am not saying that there is no reason to make some comparison based on the team's being led by one dominant offensive player, but there are huge gaps in the logic and significant errors in your post.

You keep asserting that Varejao is a bigger offensive threat. In this post, you argue that he knows how to work the refs and get to the line. Interestingly, Noah shoots about 1.5 times as many free throws as does Varejao and shoots free throws at a better pecentage. Otherwise they are similar in terms of involvement on the offensive end. There really is no basis for any argument that Varejao is better on that end though.

You have essentially backed off on your argument about Jamison here. That was a good move on your part. There really is no comparison between Boozer with the Bulls this year and Jamison with the Cavs last year.

As for who will take the shots if Rose is contained, there are two problems: 1. as you acknowledge it is very unlikely that he is contained. Slowed, perhaps. Contained, very unlikely. 2. The Bulls don't have to rely on Deng or Boozer or any other one player to go off in the playoffs. They have numerous other scorers. Deng and Boozer are better as second and third options than Mo Williams and Antawn Jamison. And Noah, Gibson, Brewer, Korver etc. give many options that can provide some offense and more than the other options on the Cavs (note that the Bulls bench has done a great job pulling away in games this year, which the Cavs bench did not do). The Bulls defense and coaching are also dramatically superior to the Cavs'.

The comparison is based on being a team led by one dominant offensive player. It doesn't make it any farther than that.

I have acknowledged it would be harder to contain him but if at any time it could be possible it would be in the playoffs when teams study for a series and not just 1 game. if they are successful in unraveling him whos the number 2 guy? Thats the arguement since the beginning why the analysts correlate Cavs with Bulls.

Sofnr
04-08-2011, 06:52 PM
Rose

I would love to hear your explanation of how Rose is a "choker". I assume it will revolve around how he hasn't made it out of the 1st round with two 41 win teams. I know you have a bias against Rose so i'm not expecting much.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
04-08-2011, 08:44 PM
How did this turn into a Bulls thread?

heatking
04-08-2011, 09:06 PM
Bulls fans creating a celtics related thread just to bait over the win.... Stay classy chicago.

mttwlsn16
04-08-2011, 09:31 PM
i hope the C's miss the finals. fakers celtics is getting old.
get someone knew in there, other than the heat, **** them

mttwlsn16
04-08-2011, 09:32 PM
Rose

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Ecko72jc
04-08-2011, 10:04 PM
The meeting worked 20-14-6 while making Wall his bit-ch..

hugepatsfan
04-08-2011, 10:11 PM
Rondo's having a terrible year. About time Doc did this.

jzero
04-08-2011, 11:13 PM
Celtics will be good in the playoffs, they can turn it on, however The Bulls look mean, the East will go thru Chicago, only team that can beat them are the Celtics. Would make a great series.

Damnit Knicks, pick up two bigmen this offseason, that way we can pass Miami and be up there with the Bulls and Celtics.

lol the knicks will never pass miami as long as the big three are healthy
enjoy your 0.519 winning percentage:D

LakersIn5
04-09-2011, 02:15 PM
Sorry but your comparisons are Mentally challenged, The Bulls, if anything are closest to the Celtics last year (DEFENSE wins championships) just they are younger and more athletic, so they havent turned it off, Last years cavs could just as easily be LA

how so? the cavs were a better defensive team in the regular season last year. and the bulls aint gonna win jack in the playoffs.

LakersIn5
04-09-2011, 02:17 PM
thats ****ing ********. I hate how people try to use the past as an indication of what will happen in the future.

NEWSFLASH: The Bulls aren't the Cavs.

howd you know?

Purple&Gold24
04-09-2011, 02:39 PM
They need perkins.