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View Full Version : Why IMO, Dwight Howard is the Best Player in the NBA



shep33
04-07-2011, 04:32 AM
Okay... I'm gonna get trashed for this, and first let me explain that I am not a Magic fan, I'm a Lakers fan. He's not my favorite player, but I do like him a lot, and I think there is a strong argument that he is the best player in the NBA, which I actually just realized this past week. And in no way is this to upstage D Rose who is the MVP of the league, and deservingly so.

First off when identifying the best player in the league, we often just revert to offensive statistics, which in reality is the sexy thing to look at. Looking at D12's numbers, but also the things that he does which aren't showing up on the stat sheet is ridiculously impressive. Moreover, he alters almost every shot within the paint, bangs with anyone in the league, and is one of the tougher players we have today with the beating he takes. Lets not forget that he averaged 23ppg on 60% shooting, 2.3 blks, 1.3 spg, with 14.2 rpg, and is at worst the 2nd best rebounder (I think he is the best, with due respect to K-Love, but D12 is on a team that contends for a title and he has to shoulder the load on both offense and defense).

If you think about it, he does more on both ends of the floor combined, than pretty much everyone else in the league. Yeah, he turns it over, picks up fouls, and shoots a low ft%, but that's not why his team loses, they just don't have a great supporting cast.

One last point, I think D12 is the only player in the league you could trade Lebron James for (regardless of what team they play for, whether it be the Bucks, Magic, Raptors etc)... looking at the value of each player, i think it makes the most sense given their age and abilities. Let's not turn this into a Lebron bashing fest, or D12 bashing fest, but I'm strictly talking value in a straight up trade.

WHODAT8o8
04-07-2011, 04:51 AM
I pretty much agree with everything u have stated. Well done.

Jewelz0376
04-07-2011, 04:52 AM
Beware...the LeBron groupies will attack this post..so be prepared to fight them off :box:

As far as your post goes..I'd def take D12 over Lebron

stawka
04-07-2011, 04:55 AM
Honestly... I'd take LeBron over anyone in the NBA... And Dwight second. He isn't the best player in the NBA, but I'd say he's top 3 or 4 at worst. MVP of this season? I think so, but not the best player

shep33
04-07-2011, 04:57 AM
Honestly... I'd take LeBron over anyone in the NBA... And Dwight second. He isn't the best player in the NBA, but I'd say he's top 3 or 4 at worst. MVP of this season? I think so, but not the best player

I respect that, people are entitled to their opinions just as my OP was.

stawka
04-07-2011, 05:01 AM
Definitely. I read your post, and it definitely wasn't facepalm worthy and I hope nobody does that crap because you do have some valid points, I just think LBJ is that ridiculous. Like I said though, I personally believe he's the MVP because of his insane impact on defense, and his offense is good now, but I still think LeBron is the better

shep33
04-07-2011, 05:06 AM
Definitely. I read your post, and it definitely wasn't facepalm worthy and I hope nobody does that crap because you do have some valid points, I just think LBJ is that ridiculous. Like I said though, I personally believe he's the MVP because of his insane impact on defense, and his offense is good now, but I still think LeBron is the better

Yeah, thats a very fair statement, LBJ is a beast, there is no denying that, the guy is a freak of nature.

DQL
04-07-2011, 05:10 AM
I don't know about Howard being better than Lebron, but he's better than Kobe in my book.

Wade, Lebron and Dwight are 3 best players in the world right now (in no order)

shep33
04-07-2011, 05:11 AM
I will say this as just another point... D12 is actually improving in almost every facet of his game. He made a monumental step offensively in only 1 offseason, and I think he has the potential to continue developing, which makes him a very intriguing player come the next couple of years. He's up 5 ppg from last year, which is very impressive. If he continues to develop and puts up 26-27 ppg, say next year or the year after, i mean he becomes almost unstoppable on both ends.

I say this because, almost every single night D12 has a monumental advantage against his opposing big man. We know that the center and pf position is really dying out in the league, and D12 right now at 25 is already head and shoulders above the next player. I mean maybe Andrew Bynum is the 2nd best center when healthy, but still the seperation between those two is still hugely in favor of Howard.

Yeah Lebron always has an advantage every night, but when guys like KG and Timmy retire, there is a huge gap (bigger than any other position) between where Howard is and that next best big man.

John Walls Era
04-07-2011, 05:28 AM
Stats speak for themselves. Has anyone ever posted such a high DRTG?

Khalifa21
04-07-2011, 06:16 AM
He's really elevated his game this season, but LeBron's on his own plateau.

I have Dwight a comfortable #2 after him though.

Khalifa21
04-07-2011, 06:26 AM
Stats speak for themselves. Has anyone ever posted such a high DRTG?

I think you mean such a low DRTG, but yeah.. Dwight's got the best defensive rating this season at 94 with KG just behind him at 95.

It's not the best DRTG ever. The lowest ever was Ben Wallace in 2003-04 when he had a rating of 87. It's the lowest since KG had a rating of 94 in 2007-08. Kenyon Martin, Manu Ginobili and Jermaine O'Neal all had ratings of 93 in 2003-04. So it's not one of the best ever, but in recent times it's pretty crazy..

Mochalman
04-07-2011, 06:35 AM
If he continues to improve his offensive low post game than undoubtebly he would be the best player in the league. I don't think you can compare both D12 and LeBron. They play different roles for their teams. D12 shouldering most of the load while LeBron can distribute to Wade or Bosh on any given night and they can produce. Its no knock on LeBron because we all saw what he did in Cleveland for all those years. I am just saying that if D12 takes a night off, his team wont win.

Young and Stupid
04-07-2011, 07:02 AM
I guess I qualify as a "LeBron groupie" because I believed (and argued) that he was the best player in the NBA for the last three seasons -- however I did so using objective measures of performance whereas those opposing me utilized ad hominems and complete nonsense -- and I'd tend to agree. I think it's very close between LeBron and Dwight, but I might give Howard the edge. His defensive impact is just so monumental that it's hard to put anyone over him.

I think the question of who's better -- James or Howard -- is actually a very interesting one in which a solid case can be made for both sides.

shep33
04-07-2011, 07:24 AM
I guess I qualify as a "LeBron groupie" because I believed (and argued) that he was the best player in the NBA for the last three seasons -- however I did so using objective measures of performance whereas those opposing me utilized ad hominems and complete nonsense -- and I'd tend to agree. I think it's very close between LeBron and Dwight, but I might give Howard the edge. His defensive impact is just so monumental that it's hard to put anyone over him.

I think the question of who's better -- James or Howard -- is actually a very interesting one in which a solid case can be made for both sides.

Completely agree, and I'm really happy that everyone so far has kept it civil in here... my intention was never one of hate or for the sake of getting a negative reactionary response. So thanks everybody.

Back to the topic...I mean your right, logically there is a case for Howard, and really what makes it so is his defensive ability. He's the best defensive player in the league, really challenges everything from 15 feet in, which is ridiculous if you think about it, while he also carries a team with players who are not good one on one defenders. What's scary to think about is if you put Howard on a team with decent to good perimeter defenders, because right now he cleans up a lot of the mess that his perimeter players create. I think that aspect of his game like you say, is so staggering and really underappreciated in the sense of the overall impact of the game, that it is eye-opening if you really think about it.

barreleffact
04-07-2011, 07:57 AM
I have Dwight as the best player in the league as well, but the thing I think that holds him back more than anything is his shot attempts. SVG is a dood coat, but he lives by the 3 which means he dies by the 3. If I were coach Dwight's attempts per game would likely double if he could handle the extra offensive load without using too much energy. Dude shoots 60% even if his numbers dropped to 50% there still woould be no reason to not let him dominte especially considering how many fouls the other team would draw on him

SFGiants1015
04-07-2011, 08:19 AM
Opened this up thinking it was gonna get a lot of hate, but you make many valid points. Personally I don't think he's the best player in the game, I still have Kobe and Lebron as better players, but he's easily top 3-5. The improvement in his offensive game is very impressive. If I were coaching this Magic team I'd be feeding him the ball in the post everytime.

marlinsfan24
04-07-2011, 08:32 AM
Some very valid points. I give the edge to Lebron James right now because Lebron doesn't completely disappear at the end of games, like D12 does. Also, D12 would be so much better if he could make his free throw shots. If he made his free throws, the Magic would probably be right there in the discussion for the 2 or 3 seed right now, instead of already being locked in as a 4.

JordansBulls
04-07-2011, 08:44 AM
I believe you can make a case he is better than Lebron because he beat him without HCA when Lebron had the best record in the league.

rabzouz 96
04-07-2011, 08:45 AM
"if he were kobes size, he couldnt do anyhting offensively, because he cant score in as many different ways"

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQiYzz8t4EMqJM2kZu8QJH-KckGzUw4Psx2iIcq0E6KO19tr92N-w&t=1

Hawkeye15
04-07-2011, 08:57 AM
Great opening post. I will say, I think Dwight has solidified his spot as the clear #2 player in the NBA, but LeBron has just been on another level over the past 3 years than any other player. But I would not laugh at a team that traded LeBron for Dwight, depending on the team makeup that did so.

Double_R
04-07-2011, 09:21 AM
While I feel like Lebrons individual impact offensively is bigger than DH, I think that DH's impact on his teams offense is more significant and it's obviously more significant on the defensive end, so I would take him 1 and Lebron 2.

Swashcuff
04-07-2011, 09:26 AM
Some very valid points. I give the edge to Lebron James right now because Lebron doesn't completely disappear at the end of games, like D12 does. Also, D12 would be so much better if he could make his free throw shots. If he made his free throws, the Magic would probably be right there in the discussion for the 2 or 3 seed right now, instead of already being locked in as a 4.

Solid post.

jrm2054
04-07-2011, 09:55 AM
I feel lebron is one but D12 is a close second. And will pass him in the future

Tarheels23
04-07-2011, 10:01 AM
Okay... I'm gonna get trashed for this, and first let me explain that I am not a Magic fan, I'm a Lakers fan. He's not my favorite player, but I do like him a lot, and I think there is a strong argument that he is the best player in the NBA, which I actually just realized this past week. And in no way is this to upstage D Rose who is the MVP of the league, and deservingly so.

First off when identifying the best player in the league, we often just revert to offensive statistics, which in reality is the sexy thing to look at. Looking at D12's numbers, but also the things that he does which aren't showing up on the stat sheet is ridiculously impressive. Moreover, he alters almost every shot within the paint, bangs with anyone in the league, and is one of the tougher players we have today with the beating he takes. Lets not forget that he averaged 23ppg on 60% shooting, 2.3 blks, 1.3 spg, with 14.2 rpg, and is at worst the 2nd best rebounder (I think he is the best, with due respect to K-Love, but D12 is on a team that contends for a title and he has to shoulder the load on both offense and defense).

If you think about it, he does more on both ends of the floor combined, than pretty much everyone else in the league. Yeah, he turns it over, picks up fouls, and shoots a low ft%, but that's not why his team loses, they just don't have a great supporting cast.

One last point, I think D12 is the only player in the league you could trade Lebron James for (regardless of what team they play for, whether it be the Bucks, Magic, Raptors etc)... looking at the value of each player, i think it makes the most sense given their age and abilities. Let's not turn this into a Lebron bashing fest, or D12 bashing fest, but I'm strictly talking value in a straight up trade.

I think you could throw Lebron, Howard, and Wade on any team in the NBA and they instantly become a playoff team

mikealike305
04-07-2011, 10:07 AM
no hate so far???? ill start :facepalm:






jk.... great OP. but i think lebron is something we havnt and will most likely not see for a long time. what he does and can do is just flat out amazing. how many guys in the NBA can play the 1,2,3 and 4? not many. if that man had half the skill he has, he'd still be a good player just based on phyical attributes alone. i have dwight in my top 3, but i think he has some work to do before i can call him #1

Missing56&33
04-07-2011, 10:13 AM
Why IMO, Dwight Howard is the Best Player in the NBA

Because he got you fooled, hes a great regular season player but he struggles in the playoffs.

Double_R
04-07-2011, 10:16 AM
no hate so far???? ill start :facepalm:






jk.... great OP. but i think lebron is something we havnt and will most likely not see for a long time. what he does and can do is just flat out amazing. how many guys in the NBA can play the 1,2,3 and 4? not many. if that man had half the skill he has, he'd still be a good player just based on phyical attributes alone. i have dwight in my top 3, but i think he has some work to do before i can call him #1


Imagine if he was more intelligent and had a reliable jumper/post game. I guess we will see when the athleticism deteriorates.

nickdymez
04-07-2011, 10:18 AM
Okay... I'm gonna get trashed for this, and first let me explain that I am not a Magic fan, I'm a Lakers fan. He's not my favorite player, but I do like him a lot, and I think there is a strong argument that he is the best player in the NBA, which I actually just realized this past week. And in no way is this to upstage D Rose who is the MVP of the league, and deservingly so.

First off when identifying the best player in the league, we often just revert to offensive statistics, which in reality is the sexy thing to look at. Looking at D12's numbers, but also the things that he does which aren't showing up on the stat sheet is ridiculously impressive. Moreover, he alters almost every shot within the paint, bangs with anyone in the league, and is one of the tougher players we have today with the beating he takes. Lets not forget that he averaged 23ppg on 60% shooting, 2.3 blks, 1.3 spg, with 14.2 rpg, and is at worst the 2nd best rebounder (I think he is the best, with due respect to K-Love, but D12 is on a team that contends for a title and he has to shoulder the load on both offense and defense).

If you think about it, he does more on both ends of the floor combined, than pretty much everyone else in the league. Yeah, he turns it over, picks up fouls, and shoots a low ft%, but that's not why his team loses, they just don't have a great supporting cast.

One last point, I think D12 is the only player in the league you could trade Lebron James for (regardless of what team they play for, whether it be the Bucks, Magic, Raptors etc)... looking at the value of each player, i think it makes the most sense given their age and abilities. Let's not turn this into a Lebron bashing fest, or D12 bashing fest, but I'm strictly talking value in a straight up trade.

This is a great post. I agree with everything you said here

nickdymez
04-07-2011, 10:19 AM
I also hope shaq stops being shaq and helps this guy out a little bit on the offensive end. He should also look back at shaqs career and see that if shaq hit his free throws, he would probably have a career avg. of 32-34 ppg.....

nickdymez
04-07-2011, 10:22 AM
I also hope shaq stops being shaq and helps this guy out a little bit on the offensive end. He should also look back at shaqs career and see that if shaq hit his free throws, he would probably have a career avg. of 32-34 ppg.....

Double_R
04-07-2011, 10:27 AM
Because he got you fooled, hes a great regular season player but he struggles in the playoffs.

Yea he really struggles in the playoffs... He had a 93 def rtg and 22.2 PER last year, 98 drtg and 25.5 PER, the year before.


Here are some PLAYOFFS THAT HE DISAPPEARED IN
THESE ARE NBA RECORDS, THE FRANCHISE RECORDS ARE AVAILABLE AS WELL(SHAQ PLAYED FOR ORLANDO TOO)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Dwight_Howard#Advan ced_statistics.5B6.5D

Ranks 1st in NBA history
First player to record three 20-point, 20-rebound games in a playoff series since Wilt Chamberlain in 1972 NBA Finals
vs. Toronto Raptors, 2008 Eastern Conference First Round
Highest field goal percentage, career: .596 (342574)
Highest field goal percentage, any playoff series: .844 (2732), vs. Atlanta Hawks, 2010 Eastern Conference Semifinals
Blocked shots, half: 8, first half, vs. Charlotte Bobcats, April 18, 2010
tied with Derrick Coleman, New Jersey Nets vs. Cleveland Cavaliers, May 7, 1993
Blocked shots, quarter: 6, first quarter, vs. Charlotte Bobcats, April 18, 2010
Personal fouls, single postseason: 102, 2009
Personal fouls, 4-game series: 22, vs. Charlotte Bobcats, 2010 Eastern Conference First Round
tied with Al Attles (San Francisco vs. Los Angeles, 1968), Doc Rivers (Atlanta vs. Detroit, 1986), and Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Cleveland vs. Indiana, 1998)
[edit]NBA Finals
Blocked shots, 5-game series: 20, vs. Los Angeles Lakers, 2009
Blocked shots, game: 9, vs. Los Angeles Lakers, June 11, 2009 (OT)[11]

Ranks 2nd in NBA history
Playoffs
Highest field goal percentage, 6-game series: .683 (4160), vs. Philadelphia 76ers, 2009 Eastern Conference First Round
Offensive rebounds, 5-game series: 35, vs. Toronto Raptors, 2008 Eastern Conference First Round
Highest average, defensive rebounds per game, career: 10.0 (512/51)
Defensive rebounds, single postseason: 254, 2009
Defensive rebounds, 7-game series: 91, vs. Boston Celtics, 2009 Eastern Conference Semifinals
Highest average, blocked shots per game, career: 2.9 (147/51)
Blocked shots, 4-game series: 20, vs. Charlotte Bobcats, 2010 Eastern Conference First Round
Blocked shots, game: 9, twice
9, vs. Los Angeles Lakers, June 11, 2009 (OT)
9, vs. Charlotte Bobcats, April 18, 2010
[edit]Finals
Defensive rebounds, 5-game series: 58, vs. Los Angeles Lakers, 2009

Ranks 3rd in NBA history
[edit]Playoffs
Highest average, offensive rebounds per game, career: 4.2 (213/51)

Ranks 4th in NBA history
Playoffs
Points, overtime: 10, vs. Cleveland Cavaliers, May 26, 2009

shep33
04-07-2011, 01:11 PM
Yea he really struggles in the playoffs... He had a 93 def rtg and 22.2 PER last year, 98 drtg and 25.5 PER, the year before.


Here are some PLAYOFFS THAT HE DISAPPEARED IN
THESE ARE NBA RECORDS, THE FRANCHISE RECORDS ARE AVAILABLE AS WELL(SHAQ PLAYED FOR ORLANDO TOO)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Dwight_Howard#Advan ced_statistics.5B6.5D

Ranks 1st in NBA history
First player to record three 20-point, 20-rebound games in a playoff series since Wilt Chamberlain in 1972 NBA Finals
vs. Toronto Raptors, 2008 Eastern Conference First Round
Highest field goal percentage, career: .596 (342574)
Highest field goal percentage, any playoff series: .844 (2732), vs. Atlanta Hawks, 2010 Eastern Conference Semifinals
Blocked shots, half: 8, first half, vs. Charlotte Bobcats, April 18, 2010
tied with Derrick Coleman, New Jersey Nets vs. Cleveland Cavaliers, May 7, 1993
Blocked shots, quarter: 6, first quarter, vs. Charlotte Bobcats, April 18, 2010
Personal fouls, single postseason: 102, 2009
Personal fouls, 4-game series: 22, vs. Charlotte Bobcats, 2010 Eastern Conference First Round
tied with Al Attles (San Francisco vs. Los Angeles, 1968), Doc Rivers (Atlanta vs. Detroit, 1986), and Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Cleveland vs. Indiana, 1998)
[edit]NBA Finals
Blocked shots, 5-game series: 20, vs. Los Angeles Lakers, 2009
Blocked shots, game: 9, vs. Los Angeles Lakers, June 11, 2009 (OT)[11]

Ranks 2nd in NBA history
Playoffs
Highest field goal percentage, 6-game series: .683 (4160), vs. Philadelphia 76ers, 2009 Eastern Conference First Round
Offensive rebounds, 5-game series: 35, vs. Toronto Raptors, 2008 Eastern Conference First Round
Highest average, defensive rebounds per game, career: 10.0 (512/51)
Defensive rebounds, single postseason: 254, 2009
Defensive rebounds, 7-game series: 91, vs. Boston Celtics, 2009 Eastern Conference Semifinals
Highest average, blocked shots per game, career: 2.9 (147/51)
Blocked shots, 4-game series: 20, vs. Charlotte Bobcats, 2010 Eastern Conference First Round
Blocked shots, game: 9, twice
9, vs. Los Angeles Lakers, June 11, 2009 (OT)
9, vs. Charlotte Bobcats, April 18, 2010
[edit]Finals
Defensive rebounds, 5-game series: 58, vs. Los Angeles Lakers, 2009

Ranks 3rd in NBA history
[edit]Playoffs
Highest average, offensive rebounds per game, career: 4.2 (213/51)

Ranks 4th in NBA history
Playoffs
Points, overtime: 10, vs. Cleveland Cavaliers, May 26, 2009

Great post, thanks for all the digging up too! I agree, there is a myth out there that he doesn't perform in the playoffs. Considering his team doesn't pass him the ball, or create easy baskets for him, his numbers are impressive. IMO that series last year against Boston was extended to six games on D12's shoulders. People forget how awful Carter and Lewis were in that series.

But again great stats!

Crackadalic
04-07-2011, 01:22 PM
Good post. you can actually make a argument for Dwight as the best player because his impact on every possession is more meaningful then any player in the league. I still think lebron is the better player but i can't be mad about Dwight being number one. IMO he really isnt used probably. He can easily score 28-30 pts if he was giving the ball more

SFGiants1015
04-07-2011, 01:25 PM
Because he got you fooled, hes a great regular season player but he struggles in the playoffs.

He's the sole reason they went 6 games with Boston last year :facepalm:

topdog
04-07-2011, 01:34 PM
Are we labeling superstar calls as part of his "talent?" Because he does a lot of "banging" that normal guys would get fouls called on them for and I actually saw a foul called on a guy for standing his ground when Dwight was trying to back him in.

shep33
04-07-2011, 01:36 PM
Good post. you can actually make a argument for Dwight as the best player because his impact on every possession is more meaningful then any player in the league. I still think lebron is the better player but i can't be mad about Dwight being number one. IMO he really isnt used probably. He can easily score 28-30 pts if he was giving the ball more

Yeah, very well said. I agree that he isn't used properly at all. One of the things that swayed me to my OP, was looking at his teammates. The reason I say that is because the guys that have played around him are literally inept at times on that end of the floor. You can argue that JJ Redick is the 2nd best defender on that team.

When you hear the names, Vince Carter, Rashard Lewis, Jayson Williams, Jameer Nelson, Hedo, Jason Richardon, Arenas, etc... we wouldn't think a team with those guys are your key players would be 5th in points allowed. We don't relate them to defensive stoppers, in fact they are all probably below average. They're really been overall a good defensive teams over the past few, and IMO a lot of that is just D12 alone.

haggis
04-07-2011, 01:37 PM
Some very valid points. I give the edge to Lebron James right now because Lebron doesn't completely disappear at the end of games, like D12 does. Also, D12 would be so much better if he could make his free throw shots. If he made his free throws, the Magic would probably be right there in the discussion for the 2 or 3 seed right now, instead of already being locked in as a 4.

This is really my only point that I get stuck on. I want to be able to trust the best player in the final 2 minutes of a game. I know, I know, there are 46 other minutes in a game in which he dominates, but a lot of the time (esp. in the playoffs) games come down to those closing minutes. That's really the only thing holding him back for me.

shep33
04-07-2011, 01:41 PM
Are we labeling superstar calls as part of his "talent?" Because he does a lot of "banging" that normal guys would get fouls called on them for and I actually saw a foul called on a guy for standing his ground when Dwight was trying to back him in.

Let's be real though, he gets fouled more than anyone in the league and he gets less of an advantage from the officials. Yeah he gets away with some, but as a Laker fan, I've seen this with Shaq, who took a pounding over his career.

shep33
04-07-2011, 01:45 PM
This is really my only point that I get stuck on. I want to be able to trust the best player in the final 2 minutes of a game. I know, I know, there are 46 other minutes in a game in which he dominates, but a lot of the time (esp. in the playoffs) games come down to those closing minutes. That's really the only thing holding him back for me.

Very fair. I'll say this though, I don't know if there is a stat for defense in the Final two minutes, but if D12 alters or defends multiple shots, preventing the other team from scoring, I really think thats his way of being clutch. I dunno, its very debateable, and I think getting a stop on one end, is just as important as scoring on the other in that final stretch.

But the point you make is very valid, he has to shoot better at the line to really make him effective offensively towards the end of games

Chacarron
04-07-2011, 02:17 PM
Only reason I would prefer Dwight over Lebron in my team is because he is a Center and it's easier to build around one. Lebron is the best player in my opinion, regardless.

Swashcuff
04-07-2011, 02:24 PM
Good post. you can actually make a argument for Dwight as the best player because his impact on every possession is more meaningful then any player in the league. I still think lebron is the better player but i can't be mad about Dwight being number one. IMO he really isnt used probably. He can easily score 28-30 pts if he was giving the ball more

Well said.

haggis
04-07-2011, 02:26 PM
Very fair. I'll say this though, I don't know if there is a stat for defense in the Final two minutes, but if D12 alters or defends multiple shots, preventing the other team from scoring, I really think thats his way of being clutch. I dunno, its very debateable, and I think getting a stop on one end, is just as important as scoring on the other in that final stretch.

But the point you make is very valid, he has to shoot better at the line to really make him effective offensively towards the end of games

Without a doubt. Definitely not discounting his contribution on the defensive end during that time, its still the best in the game. What I'm saying is that he becomes an easy target in the final minutes of a game (hack-a-howard), and as a coach, you're almost forced to take him out of the game (on offense, O-D subs). Sometimes you just need an almost guaranteed bucket or big FT, and you can't count on him for that.

But he's still by far the best big man in the game, the best defender/rebounder and an effective shooter, so i'd have a really hard choice taking anyone else over him if i were to do a draft from scratch.

Swashcuff
04-07-2011, 02:28 PM
Very fair. I'll say this though, I don't know if there is a stat for defense in the Final two minutes, but if D12 alters or defends multiple shots, preventing the other team from scoring, I really think thats his way of being clutch. I dunno, its very debateable, and I think getting a stop on one end, is just as important as scoring on the other in that final stretch.

But the point you make is very valid, he has to shoot better at the line to really make him effective offensively towards the end of games

There is zero debate there. You are 100% right. People see clutch as only being to make big baskets late but raising you defense late is just as and quite possibly more valuable in the grand scheme of things than making big shots. Getting stops is so crucial and no other player in the NBA affects the other team's offensive game plan the way Dwight Howard does.

Its something very few people actually pay attention to but it is indeed very very very important.

jim51990
04-07-2011, 02:36 PM
i like dwight but put it this way if there was any other good center in the league people would see he is extremely overrated when people make foolish statements like this

Swashcuff
04-07-2011, 02:42 PM
i like dwight but put it this way if there was any other good center in the league people would see he is extremely overrated when people make foolish statements like this

NO.

And it's not a foolish statement the man has good reasoning behind his opinion. Dwight is the quintessential impact player in today's NBA. Regardless of how many other great Cs there are people would still have great reasoning to take him over LeBron.

Chi StateOfMind
04-07-2011, 02:43 PM
good thread it can go either way...lebron is the best player in the league not only his presence on the floor but he makes everyone around better....they are both dominant at their positions.....i'd rather built around d12 then lebron but u wont go wrong with either

Phenomenonsense
04-07-2011, 02:46 PM
With how hard it is to find a dominant C, I'd got with him to build around, yes.

theheatles
04-07-2011, 02:49 PM
LeBron is better...it's really not debatable...you can see all the stats and reasons and it probably still won't change your mind, but dwight is 2nd to LeBron, a close 2nd...i like dwight A LOT, but i can't put him above LeBron

shep33
04-07-2011, 03:01 PM
Great input by everyone. It's almost like point, counterpoint, and really no hate... yet lol. Hopefully it stays that way.

haggis
04-07-2011, 03:06 PM
Great input by everyone. It's almost like point, counterpoint, and really no hate... yet lol. Hopefully it stays that way.

seriously. 4 pages and no *****ing.



but for real, is he more clutchiest than melo? :rolleyes::D

Crackadalic
04-07-2011, 03:08 PM
seriously. 4 pages and no *****ing.



but for real, is he more clutchiest than melo? :rolleyes::D

Melo is still clutch as hell:D

Im actually curious on how clutch Dwight is on the defensive end in the last 2 minutes in the 4th and in OT

Edit: Would love if somewhat can show some stats of that

haggis
04-07-2011, 03:14 PM
Melo is still clutch as hell:D

Im actually curious on how clutch Dwight is on the defensive end in the last 2 minutes in the 4th and in OT

Edit: Would love if somewhat can show some stats of that

;)

I would also be interested in that stat. Would it consist of DRTG and DWS? Is it possible to break those down by minutes?

Chronz- Where are you??

Swashcuff
04-07-2011, 03:22 PM
Melo is still clutch as hell:D

Im actually curious on how clutch Dwight is on the defensive end in the last 2 minutes in the 4th and in OT

Edit: Would love if somewhat can show some stats of that

http://www.82games.com/1011/10ORL18.HTM

scroll down

here is some of it

http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx187/Swashcuff/clutch.jpg?t=1302204148

DragonJaii
04-07-2011, 03:29 PM
hes one of the biggest threats in the nba for sure.

gotoHcarolina52
04-07-2011, 03:29 PM
This thread is garbage. Derrick Rose is the best player in the universe.

Sandman
04-07-2011, 03:33 PM
i like dwight but put it this way if there was any other good center in the league people would see he is extremely overrated when people make foolish statements like this

The fact that there's nobody else in the league like him makes ^THIS^ a foolish statement.

MagicHero3
04-07-2011, 03:53 PM
Dwight has the highest value in the NBA right now, even Phil Jackson claimed last year. It isnt necessarily bc of his skill set but bc of his athleticism. Hes HUGE, he can jump, run, and he is finally starting to get a softer touch around the rim when it comes to hook shots/layups and such. I think of course, Kobe and Lebron have a better set of moves and skills BUT when you consider Dwights Size and amount of physical contact he takes, its hard to develop the same kind of skills as them.
So yes, he would be the hottest commodity, but no, he doesnt have the most skill in the NBA.

and he will take the Magic to the Finals this year

JordansBulls
04-07-2011, 04:04 PM
LeBron is better...it's really not debatable...you can see all the stats and reasons and it probably still won't change your mind, but dwight is 2nd to LeBron, a close 2nd...i like dwight A LOT, but i can't put him above LeBron

Why not? He beat Lebron without HCA and an inferior team in 2009 with his star PG out the entire series.

BALLER71
04-07-2011, 04:11 PM
I think Lebron is still the best player but Dwight has established himself as the concrete #2 guy over Wade, Kobe, Rose, Durant etc.

SteveNash
04-07-2011, 04:18 PM
Stats speak for themselves. Has anyone ever posted such a high DRTG?

Rasho Nesterovic 03-04.


http://www.82games.com/1011/10ORL18.HTM

scroll down

here is some of it

http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx187/Swashcuff/clutch.jpg?t=1302204148

Regular season "clutchness" lol.


Why not? He beat Lebron without HCA and an inferior team in 2009 with his star PG out the entire series.

Because LeBron was the best player in the series. Hedo second best.

Jewelz0376
04-07-2011, 04:25 PM
Rasho Nesterovic 03-04.



Regular season "clutchness" lol.



Because LeBron was the best player in the series. Hedo second best.

How was Hedo the 2nd best player in the series?

Hedo was dam good in that series but to say he was better than D12 would mean that your only thinking of offense..I guess D12's D didn't help much to you?

Delfiffer
04-07-2011, 04:33 PM
lol, lebron is far out better than dwight. What has dwight done in the finals, nothing!. Now what has lebron done!, Lebron needed to go to miami to team up with Wade to win a ring, while Dwight is still playing possum in Orlando..there's a trend coming

SteveNash
04-07-2011, 04:36 PM
How was Hedo the 2nd best player in the series?

Hedo was dam good in that series but to say he was better than D12 would mean that your only thinking of offense..I guess D12's D didn't help much to you?

Hedo played great D, hit clutch shots, and set up Howard constantly.

unwantedplayer
04-07-2011, 04:37 PM
http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/04/07/statscube-mvp/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1

I thought this could help for those defending Dwight.

shep33
04-07-2011, 05:46 PM
It's very debateable. IMO, I just think D12 has arguably the highest value in the league when we're talking about his impact on every possession, offensive or defensive.

Car Ramrod
04-07-2011, 11:59 PM
The fact that there's nobody else in the league like him makes ^THIS^ a foolish statement.

Thats what I was thinking.

Also Howard is never injured. Not only is he a beast, he never gets hurt.
Mind you neither does LeBron.

A centre is so hard to find.

Car Ramrod
04-08-2011, 12:04 AM
lol, lebron is far out better than dwight. What has dwight done in the finals, nothing!. Now what has lebron done!, Lebron needed to go to miami to team up with Wade to win a ring, while Dwight is still playing possum in Orlando..there's a trend coming

When did Lebron win a ring......and what has he done in the finals?

Just asking......

PatsSoxKnicks
04-08-2011, 12:10 AM
This isn't that outrageous of a claim. I do think Lebron is still the best player in the game but I could see an argument being made for Dwight. I think he definitely is at that #2 spot right now though.

drobe86
04-08-2011, 12:13 AM
This poster has a very solid point. A case can be made for Dwight being the best player in the NBA. He's absolutely dominant, and if the refs stop calling him for BS fouls and giving him a bad rap he'd be even more dominant. It's been a pleasure watching him play since 04. Howard is outstanding and the most dominant C in our league since 2004. He's been the best C in the NBA sisnce he's been here...

tredigs
04-08-2011, 12:21 AM
If Dwight's often sloppy offensive play (which result in way too many unnecessary turnovers) were somehow swapped with a more effective playmaking ability out of the post (of which he has very, very little - as little as any dominant big in the games history in many regards) then I would be on board with the argument.

Lebron also has dominant defense - albeit from a position that garners less dominance for the team as a whole - but his abnormal playmaking ability combined with his ability to flat take over a game at any moment simply puts him on another level from Dwight.

Dwight simply can't take over a game (or doesn't at anywhere near the rate) as Lebron. Accompanied with everything else that Lebron does, that puts it over the edge for me.

drobe86
04-08-2011, 12:25 AM
If Dwight's often sloppy offensive play (which result in way too many unnecessary turnovers) were somehow swapped with a more effective playmaking ability out of the post (of which he has very, very little - as little as any dominant big in the games history in many regards) then I would be on board with the argument.

Lebron also has dominant defense - albeit from a position that garners less dominance for the team as a whole - but his abnormal playmaking ability combined with his ability to flat take over a game at any moment simply puts him on another level from Dwight.

Dwight simply can't take over a game (or doesn't at anywhere near the rate) as Lebron. Accompanied with everything else that Lebron does, that puts it over the edge for me.

Lebron doesn't play D. Lol he gets blown by and then goes for the block from behind... When Lebron goes up against truly skilled offensive players he gets torched. Hence the game against the Thunder a few weeks ago. Durant made Lebron look foolish...

tredigs
04-08-2011, 12:29 AM
Lebron doesn't play D. Lol he gets blown by and then goes for the block from behind... When Lebron goes up against truly skilled offensive players he gets torched. Hence the game against the Thunder a few weeks ago. Durant made Lebron look foolish...

Mindless hater drivel ^

Lebron (unfortunately, because I love KD) consistently dominates KD in their head to heads. But KD did play great that night. And Lebron's "chase downs" are off breakaways chief.

I'd break down Lebron's elite defense more intricately, but it would go over your head and you're not interested in hearing the truth anyway.

drobe86
04-08-2011, 12:42 AM
Mindless hater drivel ^

Lebron (unfortunately, because I love KD) consistently dominates KD in their head to heads. But KD did play great that night. And Lebron's "chase downs" are off breakaways chief.

I'd break down Lebron's elite defense more intricately, but it would go over your head and you're not interested in hearing the truth anyway.


I'm not saying Lebron isn't great. What I'm saying is, when he plays really skilled offensive players he gets torched. KD killed him that night. Melo always gets the best of him. Paul Pierce torches Lebron more often than not... Lebron is a great player I'm just saying he gets blown by and then tries to block it from behind. He plays the passing lanes well, but man on man defense is terrible. I taped the game and I watch KD drop him off from the opening tip. Melo pulls out the full reportoire against him too. Melo puts him on the block, shoots from outside. And don't even get me to talking about how Uncle Paul owns him. He's been dragging Lebron for awhile now.

shep33
04-08-2011, 12:42 AM
If Dwight's often sloppy offensive play (which result in way too many unnecessary turnovers) were somehow swapped with a more effective playmaking ability out of the post (of which he has very, very little - as little as any dominant big in the games history in many regards) then I would be on board with the argument.

Lebron also has dominant defense - albeit from a position that garners less dominance for the team as a whole - but his abnormal playmaking ability combined with his ability to flat take over a game at any moment simply puts him on another level from Dwight.

Dwight simply can't take over a game (or doesn't at anywhere near the rate) as Lebron. Accompanied with everything else that Lebron does, that puts it over the edge for me.

I kinda have to disagree here. Dwight Howard takes over games on the defensive end. When in our wildest dreams would we think a team with Hedo, Jameer, Arenas, Jrich, Ryan Anderson, Brandon Bass, Vince Carter, Rashard Lewis etc. and no backup center be a top 5 defensive team in both points allowed and opponent fg% over the past 2 years. It can be argued that the 2nd best defender on that team is JJ Redick. I would love to see Orlando's defensive statistics over a full season without D12.

IMO, that's what's going unnoticed with Howard, and IMO per possession on every play of the game, he has the greatest impact. Your right he still has to learn how to pass better, shoot better fts, and drop his turnovers, but I mean every player has weaknesses in their game. Lebron is a beast, no question, but he can also work on his jumper, his fts, and his turnovers which are equivalent with D12 this year, his individual defense is very good, but still its not comparable to Howard. There are things that Howard does that do not show up on the box score, teams alter where they shoot the ball due to his presence alone.

You make very solid points, and it can be Lebron easily. I just think we underrated what D12 does on every play of the game. But realistically the argument can go either way I think.

Young and Stupid
04-08-2011, 12:48 AM
If Dwight's often sloppy offensive play (which result in way too many unnecessary turnovers) were somehow swapped with a more effective playmaking ability out of the post (of which he has very, very little - as little as any dominant big in the games history in many regards) then I would be on board with the argument.

Lebron also has dominant defense - albeit from a position that garners less dominance for the team as a whole - but his abnormal playmaking ability combined with his ability to flat take over a game at any moment simply puts him on another level from Dwight.

Dwight simply can't take over a game (or doesn't at anywhere near the rate) as Lebron. Accompanied with everything else that Lebron does, that puts it over the edge for me.

For the first time that I can remember, I disagree (slightly) with you Digs. Of course, we agree that LeBron is a superior player to Dwight on the offensive end, but I think you're severely overlooking Howard's defensive-impact. It's one that doesn't just translate to the man he's guarding, but the other four players on the court. Dwight's impact (on both sides of the floor) per possession is mind-boggling.

I don't know if I'm comfortable saying that Dwight is better than LeBron, but to say that James is on "another level" from Howard is a little drastic. If forced to rank the two separately -- as opposed to the proverbial 1A/1B -- then I would probably give LeBron the edge, but just slightly.

SteveNash
04-08-2011, 12:51 AM
I'm not saying Lebron isn't great. What I'm saying is, when he plays really skilled offensive players he gets torched. KD killed him that night. Melo always gets the best of him. Paul Pierce torches Lebron more often than not... Lebron is a great player I'm just saying he gets blown by and then tries to block it from behind. He plays the passing lanes well, but man on man defense is terrible. I taped the game and I watch KD drop him off from the opening tip. Melo pulls out the full reportoire against him too. Melo puts him on the block, shoots from outside. And don't even get me to talking about how Uncle Paul owns him. He's been dragging Lebron for awhile now.

How'd Dwight do at shutting down the only great offensive center of his generation?

tredigs
04-08-2011, 12:56 AM
I kinda have to disagree here. Dwight Howard takes over games on the defensive end. When in our wildest dreams would we think a team with Hedo, Jameer, Arenas, Jrich, Ryan Anderson, Brandon Bass, Vince Carter, Rashard Lewis etc. and no backup center be a top 5 defensive team in both points allowed and opponent fg% over the past 2 years. It can be argued that the 2nd best defender on that team is JJ Redick. I would love to see Orlando's defensive statistics over a full season without D12.

IMO, that's what's going unnoticed with Howard, and IMO per possession on every play of the game, he has the greatest impact. Your right he still has to learn how to pass better, shoot better fts, and drop his turnovers, but I mean every player has weaknesses in their game. Lebron is a beast, no question, but he can also work on his jumper, his fts, and his turnovers which are equivalent with D12 this year, his individual defense is very good, but still its not comparable to Howard. There are things that Howard does that do not show up on the box score, teams alter where they shoot the ball due to his presence alone.

You make very solid points, and it can be Lebron easily. I just think we underrated what D12 does on every play of the game. But realistically the argument can go either way I think.

I hear you, and agree to an extent, but the thing is that dominant defense (when it's just one player doing the bulk of the damage - and not a team defense ala Chicago) can only have so big an impact. Dwight can effectively shut down a majority of the play going into the post, and that WILL create a lower FG% for the other team being that they can't get in there for easy buckets as easily as they could versus other opponents; BUT, that doesn't end the play right there a majority of the time, and that's the difference. Lebron being able to take over with his offensive game (be it him taking it to rack, getting on one of his 3pt fire binges, or creating easy looks for teammates) is simply something that TRULY takes over an entire side of the floor singlehandedly.

Combine that with the fact that he can effectively face guard the other teams best wing player (which is often the go-to guy at the end of a ballgame) and that basically is why I feel it's not even too close on the "taking over" aspect of their games. Also... Hack-A-Howard effectively renders him useless on the offensive end in the closing minutes of many close games. If you're as dominant as a guy like prime-Shaq, then you can have this glaring hole and still be considered the games best talent, but Dwight's simply not quite on that level.

In closing, I get the argument - and it's a good one - but I'm not on board.

SugeKnight
04-08-2011, 01:02 AM
If Dwight is not the best player in the league he is definitely near the top. its hard to compare players who play different positions

shep33
04-08-2011, 01:03 AM
I hear you, and agree to an extent, but the thing is that dominant defense (when it's just one player doing the bulk of the damage - and not a team defense ala Chicago) can only have so big an impact. Dwight can effectively shut down a majority of the play going into the post, and that WILL create a lower FG% for the other team being that they can't get in there for easy buckets as easily as they could versus other opponents; BUT, that doesn't end the play right there a majority of the time, and that's the difference. Lebron being able to take over with his offensive game (be it him taking it to rack, getting on one of his 3pt fire binges, or creating easy looks for teammates) is simply something that TRULY takes over an entire side of the floor singlehandedly.

Combine that with the fact that he can effectively face guard the other teams best wing player (which is often the go-to guy at the end of a ballgame) and that basically is why I feel it's not even too close on the "taking over" aspect of their games. Also... Hack-A-Howard effectively renders him useless on the offensive end in the closing minutes of many close games. If you're as dominant as a guy like prime-Shaq, then you can have this glaring hole and still be considered the games best talent, but Dwight's simply not quite on that level.

In closing, I get the argument - and it's a good one - but I'm not on board.

Yeah I think this is wide open, haha I'm not gonna make you buy into my argument, your entitled to your opinion for sure and both are pretty logical I think.

SugeKnight
04-08-2011, 01:04 AM
I hear you, and agree to an extent, but the thing is that dominant defense (when it's just one player doing the bulk of the damage - and not a team defense ala Chicago) can only have so big an impact. Dwight can effectively shut down a majority of the play going into the post, and that WILL create a lower FG% for the other team being that they can't get in there for easy buckets as easily as they could versus other opponents; BUT, that doesn't end the play right there a majority of the time, and that's the difference. Lebron being able to take over with his offensive game (be it him taking it to rack, getting on one of his 3pt fire binges, or creating easy looks for teammates) is simply something that TRULY takes over an entire side of the floor singlehandedly.

Combine that with the fact that he can effectively face guard the other teams best wing player (which is often the go-to guy at the end of a ballgame) and that basically is why I feel it's not even too close on the "taking over" aspect of their games. Also... Hack-A-Howard effectively renders him useless on the offensive end in the closing minutes of many close games. If you're as dominant as a guy like prime-Shaq, then you can have this glaring hole and still be considered the games best talent, but Dwight's simply not quite on that level.

In closing, I get the argument - and it's a good one - but I'm not on board.

Great post

Tree Rollins
04-08-2011, 01:40 AM
If you're starting a team tomorrow, i can't think of more then a couple guys you would take over him. And you could argue each of those.

Tree Rollins
04-08-2011, 01:49 AM
I hear you, and agree to an extent, but the thing is that dominant defense (when it's just one player doing the bulk of the damage - and not a team defense ala Chicago) can only have so big an impact. Dwight can effectively shut down a majority of the play going into the post, and that WILL create a lower FG% for the other team being that they can't get in there for easy buckets as easily as they could versus other opponents; BUT, that doesn't end the play right there a majority of the time, and that's the difference. Lebron being able to take over with his offensive game (be it him taking it to rack, getting on one of his 3pt fire binges, or creating easy looks for teammates) is simply something that TRULY takes over an entire side of the floor singlehandedly.

Combine that with the fact that he can effectively face guard the other teams best wing player (which is often the go-to guy at the end of a ballgame) and that basically is why I feel it's not even too close on the "taking over" aspect of their games. Also... Hack-A-Howard effectively renders him useless on the offensive end in the closing minutes of many close games. If you're as dominant as a guy like prime-Shaq, then you can have this glaring hole and still be considered the games best talent, but Dwight's simply not quite on that level.

In closing, I get the argument - and it's a good one - but I'm not on board.

I disagree on the way you view defense. I think a lot of it is perception. A great defender can totally take over and control a game just as much as a guy who scores 5 straight buckets. You just don't notice it. The announcers don't start going off after Dwight Howard has blocked a shot, ripped down a a couple offensive boards and altered 2 or 3 shots in a row. Sportscenter doesn't show a highlight every time someone drives into the paint and is afraid to shoot b/c Dwight has been slapping away everything near him. It's not in the headlines when Dwight pulls down every rebound in his vicinity and totally controls the paint. But does that mean it isn't as important as Lebron knocking down a few buckets? No, it just doesn't get the hype.
Who wins the championship every year? A high scoring 7 seconds or less Suns, or a Grind it out 04' pistons? Pistons win it every time.
You don't hear on the noise when a person dominates defensively, but it means just as much.

thaShady
04-08-2011, 02:51 AM
Yeah Lebron always has an advantage every night, but when guys like KG and Timmy retire, there is a huge gap (bigger than any other position) between where Howard is and that next best big man.

Exactly. There are an ***-ton of wing players that are all similar in skill and talent...Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Pierce, Rose, Derron Williams, Chris Paul etc etc but there arent as many big men. Soon, D12 is going to straight up dominate. He's still no young Shaq, though.

rabueed
04-08-2011, 03:01 AM
I would take Dwight over Lebron right now as best player simply because it's harder for Dwight to accomplish what he does in a game as opposed to Lebron. I don't mean based on athleticism. I mean that Dwight has to provide on both ends of the floor more than any other player in the NBA (as stated in the OP).

All that said, I feel the reason people take Lebron over Dwight is that people feel Lebron has put all his talents and athelticism on full display and utilizes it to the maximum capacity. This is very true. I don't feel Dwight his fulfilled 100%of what he's capable of, whereas I feel Lebron has reached his potential, which is ridiculously high.

shep33
04-08-2011, 06:03 AM
I would take Dwight over Lebron right now as best player simply because it's harder for Dwight to accomplish what he does in a game as opposed to Lebron. I don't mean based on athleticism. I mean that Dwight has to provide on both ends of the floor more than any other player in the NBA (as stated in the OP).

All that said, I feel the reason people take Lebron over Dwight is that people feel Lebron has put all his talents and athelticism on full display and utilizes it to the maximum capacity. This is very true. I don't feel Dwight his fulfilled 100%of what he's capable of, whereas I feel Lebron has reached his potential, which is ridiculously high.

This is a pretty good point... I mean I still think Lebron can improve, he can definitely work on a post game and his outside shooting, then he'd pretty much unstoppable. But one thing about D12, is that I think he has a higher ceiling the Lebron at this point. Sice last year he increased his scoring by 5 points, and its become obvious that he has a much better sequence of moves on the block. The scary thing is that he's just actually got the basics down, if he continues to develop his footwork and 10-15 foot jump shot...he becomes so ahead of every other big, that the seperation between him and the next best center becomes monumental.

rapjuicer06
04-08-2011, 08:35 AM
Lets compare it this way, how many possessions would you say Dwight alters on defense? I honestly don't know where to begin with number, but I'd say quuuuuite a bit. He limits the other teams offense in a number of different ways as well. Steals, blocked shots, defensive rebounds, offensive rebounds...He's an elite defender. Best in the game. Now when you go to his offense, everyone says Oh he has no post moves, which is kind of right, but then again, not. He has his spin move, he's developing a bank shot, he has a hook shot...but with all of that he puts up 23 points a game..ON 13 SHOTS...thats very impressive. IF he was getting the same shot attempts as Lebron's 19 shots a game, and he makes 3 of the 6 extra shot attempts he's now averaging 29 points a game. You may argue free throw shots, but Lebron is averaging .2 less free throws a game than Dwight over their career. So its simple, if Dwight got the same shot attempts of Lebron and Durant, basically any elite wing player, he'd be the leading scorer in the NBA, and to go with his outstanding defense, he'd be hands down best player in the league

MagicHero3
04-08-2011, 02:17 PM
lol, lebron is far out better than dwight. What has dwight done in the finals, nothing!. Now what has lebron done!, Lebron needed to go to miami to team up with Wade to win a ring, while Dwight is still playing possum in Orlando..there's a trend coming

the difference is that

Lebron still hasnt done anything yet. I'd say when it comes to playoff sucess, the Magic (Dwight) have been much more successfull than Lebron (CLE). And you say "to win a ring" like its already happened. Here is a newsflash: LEBRON HASNT DONE ANYTHING YET

Possum in Orlando? He swept the first two rounds of the playoffs last year before running into the roadblock we call the Celtics.

Has Lebrons team ever swept the 1st two rounds?

How many ECFs has Lebron been to/won?

Your simply using your love for Lebron as your reasoning. Not gonna beat the facts.

gsgs49
04-08-2011, 02:44 PM
I have him at 2 but he's the only player that you can make a case for him over Lebron for me.
Lebron is better than Dwight but Dwight is more valuable than Lebron imo.

Double_R
04-08-2011, 02:45 PM
the difference is that

Lebron still hasnt done anything yet. I'd say when it comes to playoff sucess, the Magic (Dwight) have been much more successfull than Lebron (CLE). And you say "to win a ring" like its already happened. Here is a newsflash: LEBRON HASNT DONE ANYTHING YET

Possum in Orlando? He swept the first two rounds of the playoffs last year before running into the roadblock we call the Celtics.

Has Lebrons team ever swept the 1st two rounds?

How many ECFs has Lebron been to/won?

Your simply using your love for Lebron as your reasoning. Not gonna beat the facts.

Yes(the year the Magic beat them in the ECF, the Cavs swept the 1st 2 rounds) and has won 1, then swept in finals.

They actually have accomplished about the same.

I saw earlier that DH can't take over a game offensively, but in one of the most meaningful games he's ever played in game 6 of the ECF against the Cavs, (he absolutely dominated that game from the offensive side of the ball) watch it, look at the box, whatever makes people feel better, but I have seen him do both. Another way he can dominate offensively is when he walks on the floor instantly leaving a teammate open since he is doubled more than any player in the NBA.

Missing56&33
04-08-2011, 03:39 PM
He's the sole reason they went 6 games with Boston last year :facepalm:




Quote:
Originally Posted by Double_R View Post
Yea he really struggles in the playoffs... He had a 93 def rtg and 22.2 PER last year, 98 drtg and 25.5 PER, the year before.


Here are some PLAYOFFS THAT HE DISAPPEARED IN
THESE ARE NBA RECORDS, THE FRANCHISE RECORDS ARE AVAILABLE AS WELL(SHAQ PLAYED FOR ORLANDO TOO)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...tistics.5B6.5D

Ranks 1st in NBA history
First player to record three 20-point, 20-rebound games in a playoff series since Wilt Chamberlain in 1972 NBA Finals
vs. Toronto Raptors, 2008 Eastern Conference First Round
Highest field goal percentage, career: .596 (342574)
Highest field goal percentage, any playoff series: .844 (2732), vs. Atlanta Hawks, 2010 Eastern Conference Semifinals
Blocked shots, half: 8, first half, vs. Charlotte Bobcats, April 18, 2010
tied with Derrick Coleman, New Jersey Nets vs. Cleveland Cavaliers, May 7, 1993
Blocked shots, quarter: 6, first quarter, vs. Charlotte Bobcats, April 18, 2010
Personal fouls, single postseason: 102, 2009
Personal fouls, 4-game series: 22, vs. Charlotte Bobcats, 2010 Eastern Conference First Round
tied with Al Attles (San Francisco vs. Los Angeles, 1968), Doc Rivers (Atlanta vs. Detroit, 1986), and Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Cleveland vs. Indiana, 1998)
[edit]NBA Finals
Blocked shots, 5-game series: 20, vs. Los Angeles Lakers, 2009
Blocked shots, game: 9, vs. Los Angeles Lakers, June 11, 2009 (OT)[11]

Ranks 2nd in NBA history
Playoffs
Highest field goal percentage, 6-game series: .683 (4160), vs. Philadelphia 76ers, 2009 Eastern Conference First Round
Offensive rebounds, 5-game series: 35, vs. Toronto Raptors, 2008 Eastern Conference First Round
Highest average, defensive rebounds per game, career: 10.0 (512/51)
Defensive rebounds, single postseason: 254, 2009
Defensive rebounds, 7-game series: 91, vs. Boston Celtics, 2009 Eastern Conference Semifinals
Highest average, blocked shots per game, career: 2.9 (147/51)
Blocked shots, 4-game series: 20, vs. Charlotte Bobcats, 2010 Eastern Conference First Round
Blocked shots, game: 9, twice
9, vs. Los Angeles Lakers, June 11, 2009 (OT)
9, vs. Charlotte Bobcats, April 18, 2010
[edit]Finals
Defensive rebounds, 5-game series: 58, vs. Los Angeles Lakers, 2009

Ranks 3rd in NBA history
[edit]Playoffs
Highest average, offensive rebounds per game, career: 4.2 (213/51)

Ranks 4th in NBA history
Playoffs
Points, overtime: 10, vs. Cleveland Cavaliers, May 26, 2009


I don't know about you guys but when I respond to a thread or post I analize whats being said......the thread states Why Dwight Howard is the best player in the NBA....you can take stats and try to make a claim to why he is the best player but what are great stats if you can't get pass the elite teams in the league. I think DH has gotten a whole lot better and has become down right dominate but the best player in the NBA? He cry all the time about getting fouled, he can't shoot FT's he stays int the lane more like 5-7seconds on an offense set. If the refs called that he would be suspended on techs most of the season. He need could definitely use another star alongside him but I think he is in the top 10 players in the league though.

I

MagicHero3
04-08-2011, 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double_R View Post
Yea he really struggles in the playoffs... He had a 93 def rtg and 22.2 PER last year, 98 drtg and 25.5 PER, the year before.


Here are some PLAYOFFS THAT HE DISAPPEARED IN
THESE ARE NBA RECORDS, THE FRANCHISE RECORDS ARE AVAILABLE AS WELL(SHAQ PLAYED FOR ORLANDO TOO)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...tistics.5B6.5D

Ranks 1st in NBA history
First player to record three 20-point, 20-rebound games in a playoff series since Wilt Chamberlain in 1972 NBA Finals
vs. Toronto Raptors, 2008 Eastern Conference First Round
Highest field goal percentage, career: .596 (342—574)
Highest field goal percentage, any playoff series: .844 (27—32), vs. Atlanta Hawks, 2010 Eastern Conference Semifinals
Blocked shots, half: 8, first half, vs. Charlotte Bobcats, April 18, 2010
tied with Derrick Coleman, New Jersey Nets vs. Cleveland Cavaliers, May 7, 1993
Blocked shots, quarter: 6, first quarter, vs. Charlotte Bobcats, April 18, 2010
Personal fouls, single postseason: 102, 2009
Personal fouls, 4-game series: 22, vs. Charlotte Bobcats, 2010 Eastern Conference First Round
tied with Al Attles (San Francisco vs. Los Angeles, 1968), Doc Rivers (Atlanta vs. Detroit, 1986), and Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Cleveland vs. Indiana, 1998)
[edit]NBA Finals
Blocked shots, 5-game series: 20, vs. Los Angeles Lakers, 2009
Blocked shots, game: 9, vs. Los Angeles Lakers, June 11, 2009 (OT)[11]

Ranks 2nd in NBA history
Playoffs
Highest field goal percentage, 6-game series: .683 (41—60), vs. Philadelphia 76ers, 2009 Eastern Conference First Round
Offensive rebounds, 5-game series: 35, vs. Toronto Raptors, 2008 Eastern Conference First Round
Highest average, defensive rebounds per game, career: 10.0 (512/51)
Defensive rebounds, single postseason: 254, 2009
Defensive rebounds, 7-game series: 91, vs. Boston Celtics, 2009 Eastern Conference Semifinals
Highest average, blocked shots per game, career: 2.9 (147/51)
Blocked shots, 4-game series: 20, vs. Charlotte Bobcats, 2010 Eastern Conference First Round
Blocked shots, game: 9, twice
9, vs. Los Angeles Lakers, June 11, 2009 (OT)
9, vs. Charlotte Bobcats, April 18, 2010
[edit]Finals
Defensive rebounds, 5-game series: 58, vs. Los Angeles Lakers, 2009

Ranks 3rd in NBA history
[edit]Playoffs
Highest average, offensive rebounds per game, career: 4.2 (213/51)

Ranks 4th in NBA history
Playoffs
Points, overtime: 10, vs. Cleveland Cavaliers, May 26, 2009


I don't know about you guys but when I respond to a thread or post I analize whats being said......the thread states Why Dwight Howard is the best player in the NBA....you can take stats and try to make a claim to why he is the best player but what are great stats if you can't get pass the elite teams in the league. I think DH has gotten a whole lot better and has become down right dominate but the best player in the NBA? He cry all the time about getting fouled, he can't shoot FT's he stays int the lane more like 5-7seconds on an offense set. If the refs called that he would be suspended on techs most of the season. He need could definitely use another star alongside him but I think he is in the top 10 players in the league though.

I

valid point. i guess they let him camp in there but theyre gonna be extra strict on him which is prolly why he gets so many calls against him. I mean, if they called that 3 in the key on him, it would probably get called every 2 or 3 plays lol