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View Full Version : Looking back, How did the Lakers lose in 04?



E.O.21
04-02-2011, 04:53 PM
They clearly had the better team with Shaq and Kobe
Was the Piston defense that good?
Or is there some other explanation?

Lake_Show2416
04-02-2011, 04:55 PM
cuz they were a bunch a talent thrown together n not a team

Chacarron
04-02-2011, 04:56 PM
Talent alone doesn't win games.

LAKERMANIA
04-02-2011, 04:59 PM
Yes the Pistons Defense was that good

Purple&Gold24
04-02-2011, 05:00 PM
Pistons were better.

Hawkeye15
04-02-2011, 05:01 PM
Matchups, matchups, matchups. The Pistons, and their slow down, dragging defense (along with a beast defensively at C to help slow Shaq), and the fact that the Lakers didn't play as a team in that series doomed them.

The Pistons just had the right equation, and were a style of play and strengths the Lakers had problems with

Wade>You
04-02-2011, 05:01 PM
IMO it's a combination of all these 3

a) Kobe had a real bad FG% in that series

b) Nobody passed the ball to Shaq.

c) The Pistons drew a lot more fouls than the legendary Lakers and they got away with as many. They were league fabricated which is why they are no longer title contenders and all their players sucked after they lost that "aura" that the NBA had empowered them with.

I don't like the (Kobe) Lakers, but I feel sorry for them because they were a victim of their own greatness. People wanted to see them lose and the under dog no-namer team win.

Storch
04-02-2011, 05:03 PM
Ben Wallace was able to play Shaq 1v1, thus allowing the player that normally double teams Shaq to provide double team coverage on Kobe on the perimeter instead. This allowed the Pistons to play man defense and prevent the Lakers from getting easy shots in the perimeter. Shaq got his points against Wallace, but it wasn't enough to win by himself because the Pistons doubled Kobe and other players in the perimeter to force turnovers. It was an amazing scheme, and it has been mimicked by the Celtics these last few years when defending the Lakers as well. It seems as if this defensive scheme is the Triangle offense's Achilles heel. :shrug:

Iron24th
04-02-2011, 05:04 PM
Pistons were better.

Yes,they were the better team on the court by far.

Purple&Gold24
04-02-2011, 05:06 PM
Matchups, matchups, matchups. The Pistons, and their slow down, dragging defense (along with a beast defensively at C to help slow Shaq), and the fact that the Lakers didn't play as a team in that series doomed them.

The Pistons just had the right equation, and were a style of play and strengths the Lakers had problems with

I actually agree with Hawkeyes on this.

M.Bibby2.0
04-02-2011, 05:09 PM
Lack of chemistry on the Lakers part. Kobe had difficulty being second fiddle to an arrogant Shaq. Its a shame for the Lakers really, could have gone on to win more if they could just put there egos aside.

-And of coarse the Pistons did an excellent job, the above is just why they were able to overcome a team with more talent.

Bruno
04-02-2011, 05:15 PM
The Lakers were not the better team; the better team doesn't lose 4-1, ever. They had zero depth, two aging HOFers who could no longer contribute on an effective level, a young arrogant SG who shot the team out of the series (who also got them their only victory in the series), and an over-weight Center who was no longer interested in keeping himself in shape, rebounding, or playing effective defense. It was the perfect storm.

The Pistons on the other hand had one of the most balance starting 5's I've ever seen; they are also one of the greatest defensive teams in the history of the NBA (go look at their defensive rating).

To be honest, I don't understand how the Lakers got past the Spurs in the WC semis.

JDMVP
04-02-2011, 05:16 PM
Honestly I blame Shaq for this one, I mean the argument was there about KOBE just struggling but I really blame Shaq. The end of the day, even if Ben Wallace was the best defensive player of the year, he was still 6'9 and Shaq was a 7"1 center, most dominant big man in the league. You tell me that dominant guy could not at least out play him in the match up.

Hawkeye15
04-02-2011, 05:17 PM
The Lakers were not the better team; the better team doesn't lose 4-1, ever. They had zero depth, two aging HOFers who could no longer contribute on an effective level, a young arrogant SG who shot the team out of the series (who also got them their only victory in the series), and an over-weight Center who was no longer interested in keeping himself in shape, rebounding, or playing effective defense. It was the perfect storm.

The Pistons on the other hand had one of the most balance starting 5's I've ever seen; they are also one of the greatest defensive teams in the history of the NBA (go look at their defensive rating).

To be honest, I don't understand how the Lakers got past the Spurs in the WC semis.


Cassell's god damn hip injury!!! :mad:

Blew my puppies chance at the finals!

Jay_Dub
04-02-2011, 05:21 PM
Karl Malone was hurt ... he played but was ineffective. Also Payton was not a good fit and wouldn't/couldn't run the triangle.

AIRMAR72
04-02-2011, 05:22 PM
Ben Wallace was able to play Shaq 1v1, thus allowing the player that normally double teams Shaq to provide double team coverage on Kobe on the perimeter instead. This allowed the Pistons to play man defense and prevent the Lakers from getting easy shots in the perimeter. Shaq got his points against Wallace, but it wasn't enough to win by himself because the Pistons doubled Kobe and other players in the perimeter to force turnovers. It was an amazing scheme, and it has been mimicked by the Celtics these last few years when defending the Lakers as well. It seems as if this defensive scheme is the Triangle offense's Achilles heel. :shrug:
NO NO no your WRONG they played everybody straight up they double on shaq when he turn the into paint and send him to the line BOTH wallace did there job on shaq playing tuff D, TAYSHAUN shut KOBE down with o help kobe was NEVER double during the series pistons put shaq in pick N ROLL PLAYS rasheed was HOT from downtown he found open guys like billups and rick plus the piston overall team Defense was too much for any team to handle back than

Big Zo
04-02-2011, 05:23 PM
Honestly I blame Shaq for this one, I mean the argument was there about KOBE just struggling but I really blame Shaq. The end of the day, even if Ben Wallace was the best defensive player of the year, he was still 6'9 and Shaq was a 7"1 center, most dominant big man in the league. You tell me that dominant guy could not at least out play him in the match up.

:eyebrow: Didn't Shaq average 30 ppg that series?

MSU4life
04-02-2011, 05:38 PM
Our defense was better than any teams defense this decade. Wallace played shaq one on one and shut him down. Tay and rip killed Kobe that series and Chauncey played like a superstar.

Chronz
04-02-2011, 05:39 PM
The pistons had better talent, it really is that simple

Kashmir13579
04-02-2011, 05:43 PM
Pistons were that good. played great defense and played as a unit on offense. no stars on that team just great basketball. i haven't seen a team like that, well, since 04.

Bruno
04-02-2011, 05:45 PM
Cassell's god damn hip injury!!! :mad:

Blew my puppies chance at the finals!

Totally. And I'm sure a lot of posters could look at this and dismiss Cassell as a mid-level player, but he really did kill it for the Wolves in '04.

His advanced stats were great. PER: 22.8, WS: 12.1, WS/48: .201. His WS numbers in '04 were the highest of his career, as was his TS%.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cassesa01.html

When did Cassell go down with that injury, I forgot?

Storch
04-02-2011, 05:48 PM
NO NO no your WRONG they played everybody straight up they double on shaq when he turn the into paint and send him to the line BOTH wallace did there job on shaq playing tuff D, TAYSHAUN shut KOBE down with o help kobe was NEVER double during the series pistons put shaq in pick N ROLL PLAYS rasheed was HOT from downtown he found open guys like billups and rick plus the piston overall team Defense was too much for any team to handle back than

What series were you watching? Shaq beasted on that series with a very high ppg because Wallace was playing him 1v1. They doubled Kobe and Tayshaun Prince did not do it by himself. Are you serious?? Sheed was not a high assisting PF in that series, nor has he ever been. :facepalm:

Yankees Suck
04-02-2011, 06:03 PM
The Lakers got hung out to dry. One team dominated the other. The Lakers could not hang with the Pistons. I was stunned the series lasted longer than four games.

Preacher
04-02-2011, 06:11 PM
The Pistons were better as a team by the time that Finals rolled around. Actually the problem had been going on for a few years as Shaq and Kobe were fighting over whose team it was then and whose it was going to be. This peaked in Game #4. Due to the Networks wishing for a huge Sunday rating. So the teams got an extra day off. Shaq was on the downslide. Still very effective, but not as often.

Game 1:
Kobe 10/27 25 points
Shaq 13/16 34 points

Game 2: (Kobe's only good shooting game)
Kobe 14/27 33 points
Shaq 10/20 29 points

Game 3: (Shaq tired here)
Kobe 4/13 11 points
Shaq 7/14 14 points

So, down 2-1 in the Series out comes a healthy and rested Shaq. No one can touch him. No one can guard him. Except he cannot get the ball. I remember watching him screaming at Kobe in the 2nd half. And Kobe just jacking up shot after shot. Kobe would rather lose the Championship then pass the ball for Shaq to have a huge game.

Game 4:
Kobe 8/25 for 25 points
Shaq 16/21 for 36 points

After the game Rick Fox was being asked about the game. His comment was "Shaq could have got 60. Easy." And the look on his face explained what had happened. They were done. Not to the better team. But because they could no longer play like one.

Lakersfan2483
04-02-2011, 06:13 PM
The Lakers were not the better team; the better team doesn't lose 4-1, ever. They had zero depth, two aging HOFers who could no longer contribute on an effective level, a young arrogant SG who shot the team out of the series (who also got them their only victory in the series), and an over-weight Center who was no longer interested in keeping himself in shape, rebounding, or playing effective defense. It was the perfect storm.

The Pistons on the other hand had one of the most balance starting 5's I've ever seen; they are also one of the greatest defensive teams in the history of the NBA (go look at their defensive rating).

To be honest, I don't understand how the Lakers got past the Spurs in the WC semis.

Good analysis. Also, the loss of Karl Malone really hurt us, he was the heart and soul of our defense. We didn't any depth on our team either.

210Don
04-02-2011, 06:15 PM
they shoulda lost to spurs but w/e

Geargo Wallace
04-02-2011, 06:23 PM
Kobe and Shaq's irreconcilable differences.

shep33
04-02-2011, 06:35 PM
That team was destined to lose... think about all the distractions they had.

-Kobe's trial during the season
-Shaq seemed almost not caring and was 20-30 lbs overweight. People forget that he dropped like 20lbs the very next year when he went to Miami... so why didn't he do that with LA?

-Kobe and Shaq feuding... Kobe played awful in all truth.
-Payton not buying and not fitting into the triangle at all. Chauncey absolutely destroyed Payton, like it was one of the most one sided matchups I had seen... GP was really on his way out though, still among the great pg's in NBA history. In the playoffs as a whole Payton averaged 7.8 ppg on 36% shooting
-Malone on his last legs, GP too really, Karl got some bad injuries all year long.
-Bench was absolutely atrocious, they lost a lot of key guys that year. No Horry, no Shaw, Rick Fox on the decline, in what would be his last year.
-There are so many instances of how messed up that team was

I know people say that Shaq was dominating, but defensively the guy couldn't move because he had put on so much weight, he was just huge that entire year.


It's actually almost amazing that LA made it that far. Detroit won because they were the better team, they played together, and their defense basically double and tripled Shaq and Kobe with nobody else making any sort of contribution.

theheatles
04-02-2011, 06:50 PM
kobe was tired of shaq getting most of the credit so he stopped passing him the ball and kobe started chucking

MTar786
04-02-2011, 07:28 PM
i dont want to discredit the pistons but i have to here.

-kobe's case
-malone was injured
-grant was injured
we had to use SLAVA! against sheed
-payton really went downhill by game 3 in the WCF n fish should have started
mix that all with shaq and kobe HATING eachother so much they couldnt play together at all.

kobe wanted to finally get finals mvp over shaq for once and it costed them the ring

if it weret for any of these the lakers would have beat detroit in 5 games

TheDetroitBlue
04-02-2011, 08:44 PM
Stop making excuses, Detroit played the better games, WORKED harder, played better Defense.

Everyone picked LA

And Detroit proved them wrong

The Jokemaker
04-02-2011, 09:00 PM
Detroit played as a team, somethign I don't remember the Lakers doing that series. Such a shame.

fadedmario
04-02-2011, 09:04 PM
Defense by Detroit

Teeboy1487
04-02-2011, 09:10 PM
I love Kobe and he is my favorite player of alltime but he was really that bad. Kobe was a complete hog in that series. I remember like it was yesterday. He was in hero mode the whole series. That is where I started to question Kobe a little.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-02-2011, 09:13 PM
We had distractions all season. Kobe and Shaq had no chemistry and neither were distributing the ball to each other. INjuries hurt us that year.


Kobe got us the only win of that series when Shaq fouled out I believe and Kobe carried us. Aside from SHAQ everyone shot below 40% or something like that.

kArSoN RyDaH
04-02-2011, 09:13 PM
7 Years later KObe has been to the finals 3 times and won two championships and is on pace for a 3rd in 4 years. :)

Eg714
04-02-2011, 09:13 PM
No chemistry at all

AddiX
04-02-2011, 09:15 PM
Detroits d was the best in the NBA in many years. Sheed beasted on Malone. Wallace with sheeds help gave shaq fits. Hamilton and billups not only were one of the best back courts in the NBA, but there combined basketball iq was through the roof.

And people forget, they had 4 players in the all star game. Flat out, they manhandled the lakers. People handed la the ring before the season even started that year.

I loved watching that Detroit team play.

Crackadalic
04-02-2011, 09:17 PM
D.E.F.E.N.S.E. Thats why

Gators123
04-02-2011, 09:26 PM
Defense. Tayshaun defense on Kobe was awesome.

Lakers Guru
04-02-2011, 10:49 PM
- Mitch Kupcakes and Jerry Buss had no idea how to restock the team after Jerry West left.
- Gary Payton was a whinny useless prima donna the whole season.
- Karl Malone was playing on one leg after the Minnesota Series.
- Houston and Minnesota beat the wholly living crap out of Shaq, who was then finished off by Detroit.
- Was pretty clear David Stern wanted the torch passed to the Spurs.

llemon
04-02-2011, 11:02 PM
Kobe and Shaq's irreconcilable differences.

Bingo.

TheNatural797
04-02-2011, 11:03 PM
"Hardwork beats Talent when Talent doesn't work hard"
- Kevin Durant

"We don't have enough talent to win on talent alone"
- Herb Brooks

How many more people should i quote?

knickfan33
04-02-2011, 11:30 PM
that piston team was the best fundemantal/defensive basketball team i have ever seen in my life time...and you wont see another team like that for a long time

Gram
04-02-2011, 11:51 PM
Because the Pistons were just nuts.

iggypop123
04-02-2011, 11:54 PM
pistons were deep and larry brown had them playing great. shaq was so abused he didnt seem to have it at his highest level. kobe saw what he would start seeing the rest of the decade, the unnoficial zone. gary payton was useless to the team. karl malone was playing crippled leaving guys like slava medvenko and luke walton to guard rasheed wallace. and no chemstry.

JasonJohnHorn
04-02-2011, 11:58 PM
Firslty, they werent even good enough to beat Minny that year, they needed LOTS of help for the officials to do THAT!

Second: they were only four men deep! And Malone was playing hurt in the finals! And Payton was past his prime, so not playing at the level he was at 2 or 3 years prior. And Shaq and Kobe were at each other's throats, while Kobe's shot selection was horrible.


And YES, Detroit was that good. You cant win 4 out of 5 games (with the one loss being in overtime that the officials gave to LA) withouth CLEARLY being the better team.

Prince shut down Kobe.
Ben mauled Shaq.
Wallace was > Malone that season.
Billups was on top of his game, Payton wasnt.
And Hamilton made the Pistons one man deeper in the starting five alone.
Not to mention Okur and Corliss Williamson, Hubert Davis, Elden Campell, Lindsey Hunter and Darko f@ck!ng Milicic! AKA the human victory cigar!

PrettyBoyJ
04-03-2011, 01:06 AM
Chemistry.. You kinda need that to win

ellesmeire
04-03-2011, 01:11 AM
just like the current miami heat team now, you cant just throw a team together and expect to wina title year one, also besides Kobe there were a lot of older veterans on that team, the pistons just caught them with enough defense, it was an awesome series to watch

Chronz
04-03-2011, 01:12 AM
"Hardwork beats Talent when Talent doesn't work hard"
- Kevin Durant

"We don't have enough talent to win on talent alone"
- Herb Brooks

How many more people should i quote?

Probably someone who said something relevant

abe_froman
04-03-2011, 01:16 AM
pretty much everything thats been said.from great chemistry that det had and the god awful chemistry that lakers had.to them being a deeper,more complete team.great defense that matched up well to the lakers.

Preacher
04-03-2011, 01:17 AM
- Mitch Kupcakes and Jerry Buss had no idea how to restock the team after Jerry West left.
- Gary Payton was a whinny useless prima donna the whole season.
- Karl Malone was playing on one leg after the Minnesota Series.
- Houston and Minnesota beat the wholly living crap out of Shaq, who was then finished off by Detroit.
- Was pretty clear David Stern wanted the torch passed to the Spurs.
Good list.

NFLNBA
04-03-2011, 01:26 AM
Malone was a HUGE loss for the Lakers! They had to start medvendenko for christ sakes and Kobe was going through that rape stuff

XerxestheGreat
04-03-2011, 01:29 AM
They clearly had the better team with Shaq and Kobe
Was the Piston defense that good?
Or is there some other explanation?


Slava Medvedenko happened....

Sync
04-03-2011, 01:37 AM
Slava Medvedenko happened....

It was the cheese doodles

COBY KARL
04-03-2011, 01:43 AM
Ben Wallace and Tayshaun Prince did great jobs on Shaq and Kobe

AIRMAR72
04-03-2011, 01:51 AM
What series were you watching? Shaq beasted on that series with a very high ppg because Wallace was playing him 1v1. They doubled Kobe and Tayshaun Prince did not do it by himself. Are you serious?? Sheed was not a high assisting PF in that series, nor has he ever been. :facepalm:
i was there thats why i know if anything the game might be on you tube im SURE it is everything else is on there(you tube)

AIRMAR72
04-03-2011, 02:02 AM
The Pistons were better as a team by the time that Finals rolled around. Actually the problem had been going on for a few years as Shaq and Kobe were fighting over whose team it was then and whose it was going to be. This peaked in Game #4. Due to the Networks wishing for a huge Sunday rating. So the teams got an extra day off. Shaq was on the downslide. Still very effective, but not as often.

Game 1:
Kobe 10/27 25 points
Shaq 13/16 34 points

Game 2: (Kobe's only good shooting game)
Kobe 14/27 33 points
Shaq 10/20 29 points

Game 3: (Shaq tired here)
Kobe 4/13 11 points
Shaq 7/14 14 points

So, down 2-1 in the Series out comes a healthy and rested Shaq. No one can touch him. No one can guard him. Except he cannot get the ball. I remember watching him screaming at Kobe in the 2nd half. And Kobe just jacking up shot after shot. Kobe would rather lose the Championship then pass the ball for Shaq to have a huge game.

Game 4:
Kobe 8/25 for 25 points
Shaq 16/21 for 36 points

After the game Rick Fox was being asked about the game. His comment was "Shaq could have got 60. Easy." And the look on his face explained what had happened. They were done. Not to the better team. But because they could no longer play like one.

what is so SAD is kobe points all came in the 1st half of the games during the series he had nothing LEFT for the 4th qtr ..than laker management traded shaq and da glove(gary was finish) to miami and WADE won a ring with gary and shaq and his overall team was less talented compare to kobe and shaq lakers

John Walls Era
04-03-2011, 04:22 AM
Scored less points.

MickeyMgl
04-03-2011, 04:30 AM
They clearly had the better team with Shaq and Kobe
Was the Piston defense that good?
Or is there some other explanation?

Karl Malone had to have his knee drained just before the start of the Finals so that he could try to play. He played ineffectively through several games, then re-injured it in Game 4 and didn't play again.

Prior to Malone's knee surgery that season, when all four principles (Shaq, Kobe, Malone, Grant) were healthy, they dominated. Injuries are what derailed them. When you're dealing with aging vets, that's always a possibility.

The Final Boss
04-03-2011, 04:48 AM
Damn, I knew the NBA forum had limited intelligence, it's just saddening that a lot are Lakers' fans, although, most aren't really from Los Angeles. Therefore, they don't count. Moving on, the locker room was shattered beyond repair, Payton was on the decline, and the Mailman was on one wheel. No way Wallace could ever guard the Diesel 1v.1. He got away with murder that series.

Kevj77
04-03-2011, 04:53 AM
I remember this series well. Malone was playing on one knee. Payton never fit into the triangle. Shaq was already declining as a player and they didn't double him as much as other teams had in the past. Kobe wanted a finals MVP and shot the Lakers out of a couple games.

Compared to the Lakers the Pistons were a better team, getting rid of Horry and benching Fisher for Payton didn't help the Lakers chemistry. The Pistons played like a team, instead of a bunch of individuals with personal agendas.

A healthy Malone would've made it closer, but I don't know if it could've changed the outcome, only how many games the series went.

WHODAT8o8
04-03-2011, 06:07 AM
Cause the lakers suck haha :rolleyes:
Just kidding

JordansBulls
04-03-2011, 09:40 AM
Because the Pistons upset them.


http://www.nba.com/games/20040601/INDDET/recap.html



the Pistons eliminated the Pacers in six games and will face the heavily favored Los Angeles Lakers for the championship beginning Sunday.




http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/games/2004-06-06-finals-game1_x.htm



It was the first home playoff game the heavily favored Lakers have lost after winning nine in a row, and it cost them home-court advantage.





http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2004/series?series=laldet

Link - Game 1 2004 Finals (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=240606013)

Link - Game 5 2004 Finals (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=240615008)



"Nobody gave us a chance, but we felt we had a great chance," said Billups, the finals MVP with 21 points and 5.2 assists per game. "They had Shaq and Kobe, but we just felt we were a better team."






Source: Yahoosports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-10-best-teams-of-the-decade-never-to-win-a-c;_ylt=Ai8j0I4kfnCFSrGgLh3xx7q8vLYF?urn=nba,184569 )

6. Los Angeles Lakers, 2003-04


This could have been an all-time team, one of the greats, had everything come together. Nothing came together, though. Nothing came close. Everything fell apart, badly, but not before the Lakers made it all the way to the NBA Finals, as favorites, before losing to the Detroit Pistons. Los Angeles signed Gary Payton and Karl Malone to cheap-o contracts before the season started, hoping to fill positions that had been skunked by Tim Duncan and Tony Parker the season before, but those esteemed transactions were more than mitigated by the news of Kobe Bryant's legal troubles in Colorado during the summer of 2003. Bryant's troubles marred the season, as he grew increasingly insular, and, to his coaching staff and teammates, erratic and selfish on the court. Payton never learned the offense, Shaquille O'Neal was never in shape, and Karl Malone (the lone good soldier on this squad) had to deal with two devastating freak knee injuries in December (with the Lakers rolling along at 20 and 5) and in June (with Los Angeles about to make the Finals).

stawka
04-03-2011, 10:08 AM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01/gamelog/2004/

If you scroll towards the bottom, you'll see 5 games. You'll also see the reason as to why they lost as you look through those same 5 games

DJakk
04-03-2011, 10:10 AM
The Pistons were absolutely amazing and the downfall of the players on that team has left us underestimating how good they actually once were.

Ironman5219
04-03-2011, 10:22 AM
Simple the Pistons were better and they dominated.

flclfanman
04-03-2011, 10:37 AM
Kobe had his switch stuck in "Mamba Mode"

I was shocked to see a guy play so much Hero ball with 4 hall of Famers starting on that team; including the most dominant big man of the 90's IN HIS PRIME :facepalm:

Chronz
04-03-2011, 11:26 AM
Karl Malone had to have his knee drained just before the start of the Finals so that he could try to play. He played ineffectively through several games, then re-injured it in Game 4 and didn't play again.

Prior to Malone's knee surgery that season, when all four principles (Shaq, Kobe, Malone, Grant) were healthy, they dominated. Injuries are what derailed them. When you're dealing with aging vets, that's always a possibility.

I forgot about horace grant, he would've been a nice insurance to have, not the difference maker but he may have helped malone stay fresh

Storch
04-03-2011, 07:22 PM
i was there thats why i know if anything the game might be on you tube im SURE it is everything else is on there(you tube)

You were there? Did you have a blindfold? Because Tayshaun Prince did not guard Kobe 1on1 the whole series and "shut him down." :facepalm:

OaklandsFinest
04-03-2011, 07:38 PM
Ben Wallace was able to play Shaq 1v1, thus allowing the player that normally double teams Shaq to provide double team coverage on Kobe on the perimeter instead. This allowed the Pistons to play man defense and prevent the Lakers from getting easy shots in the perimeter. Shaq got his points against Wallace, but it wasn't enough to win by himself because the Pistons doubled Kobe and other players in the perimeter to force turnovers. It was an amazing scheme, and it has been mimicked by the Celtics these last few years when defending the Lakers as well. It seems as if this defensive scheme is the Triangle offense's Achilles heel. :shrug:

What the Pistons did was they were able to play Kobe one on one with Tayshaun Prince and Kobe tried to shoot his way out of the series. Shaq got his points but they were able to keep the ball out of his hands with really good defense by doubling with Sheed and Billups, Payton was never a good spot up a shooter and Malone really showed his age in the series.

iggypop123
04-03-2011, 08:01 PM
the question should be why did the pistons only win a title. this is the only thing separating them from being a "buffalo bills" or the mcnabb eagles

Phenomenonsense
04-03-2011, 08:11 PM
the question should be why did the pistons only win a title. this is the only thing separating them from being a "buffalo bills" or the mcnabb eagles

The Spurs were the Pistons with a Superstar. That's why.

Storch
04-03-2011, 08:13 PM
What the Pistons did was they were able to play Kobe one on one with Tayshaun Prince and Kobe tried to shoot his way out of the series. Shaq got his points but they were able to keep the ball out of his hands with really good defense by doubling with Sheed and Billups, Payton was never a good spot up a shooter and Malone really showed his age in the series.

There is no doubt that Tayshaun Prince played excellent defense on Kobe Bryant, but he did not do it "1on1" the entire series. That is the statement that I am refuting.

The Pistons' coach can actually be quoted in saying that they tried to let Ben Wallace play Shaq 1on1 as much as possible to double team Kobe instead. If anyone thinks i'm making it up you can use google.

amos1er
04-03-2011, 08:16 PM
IMO it's a combination of all these 3

a) Kobe had a real bad FG% in that series

b) Nobody passed the ball to Shaq.

c) The Pistons drew a lot more fouls than the legendary Lakers and they got away with as many. They were league fabricated which is why they are no longer title contenders and all their players sucked after they lost that "aura" that the NBA had empowered them with.

I don't like the (Kobe) Lakers, but I feel sorry for them because they were a victim of their own greatness. People wanted to see them lose and the under dog no-namer team win.

I agree 100%.......Also, Kobe's bad FG% was a result of not getting any calls. He has never shot 38% in a playoff series other than that one....The refs made sure the Lakers lost that series. Game five was one of the most corrupted officiating fixes in sports history. Everyone knew it was fixed and no one cared because they all wanted to see the Lakers lose so badly and everyone hated Kobe because of the rape too. I remember all the Laker haters I knew admitting that they knew it was fixed, but they were still cheering for bad calls just to see the Lakers lose.

Kobe and Shaq averaged a combined 20 freethrow attempts per game during the playoffs, but only averaged a combined 9 attempts in that series. The Lakers were top in freethrow attempts that season, yet barely went to the line that series, while the Pistons were bottom in freethrow attempts and went to the line more than any other playoff team in the NBA. This was one of the worst fixing jobs in NBA history. Stern should be ashamed and so should the fans who supported this disgrace.

Gators123
04-03-2011, 08:53 PM
I agree 100%.......Also, Kobe's bad FG% was a result of not getting any calls. He has never shot 38% in a playoff series other than that one....The refs made sure the Lakers lost that series. Game five was one of the most corrupted officiating fixes in sports history. Everyone knew it was fixed and no one cared because they all wanted to see the Lakers lose so badly and everyone hated Kobe because of the rape too. I remember all the Laker haters I knew admitting that they knew it was fixed, but they were still cheering for bad calls just to see the Lakers lose.

Kobe and Shaq averaged a combined 20 freethrow attempts per game during the playoffs, but only averaged a combined 9 attempts in that series. The Lakers were top in freethrow attempts that season, yet barely went to the line that series, while the Pistons were bottom in freethrow attempts and went to the line more than any other playoff team in the NBA. This was one of the worst fixing jobs in NBA history. Stern should be ashamed and so should the fans who supported this disgrace.

:laugh::laugh2:

Teufelshunde4
04-03-2011, 10:15 PM
I don't like the (Kobe) Lakers, but I feel sorry for them because they were a victim of their own greatness. People wanted to see them lose and the under dog no-namer team win.

This comment coming from a Heat fan is just ironic is it..... Except the Lakers have the rings to show.. Where as the Heat were called great before playing a single game:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Team*Chicago
04-04-2011, 09:49 AM
Because the Pistons were some one hit wonders during that season.

TheDetroitBlue
04-04-2011, 09:58 AM
Because the Pistons were some one hit wonders during that season.

yeah one hit wonders that went back to the finals the next season.... and made it to the eastern confrence finals the next few after that

one hit wonders

sjoerdje
04-04-2011, 10:08 AM
If malone would have been as healthy as his other 20 seasons they would have won.

all the hard work quotes are right, but forget one thing.

for hard work to work you need talent as well, if your starting five is:

Gary payton
Kobe Bryant
Karl Malone
Shaquille o'neal

and choose the fifth from Devean George, Rick Fox and Stanislav Medvedenko.

then a lot of teams are going be defeated by that group.
too much talent will give hard work fits, nevermind how unfair that sounds.

lets play a Uconn against some low devision 3 team and lets see how hard work will pan out?

m26555
04-04-2011, 10:58 AM
They clearly had the better team with Shaq and Kobe
Was the Piston defense that good?
Or is there some other explanation?
If they "clearly had the better team," they wouldn't have gotten dropkicked in five games. Detroit was better; plain and simple.


If malone would have been as healthy as his other 20 seasons they would have won.

all the hard work quotes are right, but forget one thing.

for hard work to work you need talent as well, if your starting five is:

Gary payton
Kobe Bryant
Karl Malone
Shaquille o'neal

and choose the fifth from Devean George, Rick Fox and Stanislav Medvedenko.

then a lot of teams are going be defeated by that group.
too much talent will give hard work fits, nevermind how unfair that sounds.

lets play a Uconn against some low devision 3 team and lets see how hard work will pan out?
Yeah? And if Sam Cassell and/or Troy Hudson were healthy in the WCF that year, the Lakers wouldn't have even gotten by Minnesota.

ShockerArt
04-04-2011, 10:59 AM
1. The Lakers were at their dysfunctional peak.

2. Karl Malone hurt his knee.

3. The Pistons were a terrible matchup for the Lakers. L.A. had the 2 best players in the series. After that, Detroit had the next 7 best players, IMO. Detroit had a good set-up for stopping Kobe: Prince was long enough to bother his jumper and when Kobe drove to the basket, the Pistons funneled him to the shot-blocking Wallace duo. Because the Pistons could disrupt Kobe's game, they didn't have to focus on trying to slow down Shaq. A lot of Western Conference teams would get caught up in trying to stop the big man, which typically allowed guys like Horry and Fisher to get wide-open looks in key situations. The Pistons allowed Shaq to dominate, but clamped down on the other three guys. The Lakers were basically a one-man team in the finals. As dominant as Shaq was, you can't win a series without good (or at least timely) perimeter play, especially when your dominant center is a horrendous FT shooter.

As a Lakers fan, I was rooting hard for the Pacers in the conference finals. I still think the Lakers could have beaten them, probably in 7 games. I was definitely worried about Detroit. I didn't think the Pistons could dominate L.A. like that. But, I was concerned that a smart coach like Larry Brown would know how to attack a flawed team like the '04 Lakers with the great defensive team that he had.

Double_R
04-04-2011, 11:41 AM
Karl Malone got hurt, Shaq wanted to have surgery on company time, and the Pistons were a team.

ctad2002
04-04-2011, 11:45 AM
yeah one hit wonders that went back to the finals the next season.... and made it to the eastern confrence finals the next few after that

one hit wonders

they also made it to the eastern conference finals three years prior

they were the better team period point blank

they wouldve won back to back if it wasnt for sheed doubling of off big shot bob in game 5

Missing56&33
04-04-2011, 12:37 PM
They clearly had the better team with Shaq and Kobe
Was the Piston defense that good?
Or is there some other explanation?


The Lakers did what Miami is doing now.....they went out and assembled a bunch of all star players and put them on the same team. Payton and Malone was the man on their prevous teams but the chemistry was not right in the Finals. Malone and Payton had not won big games before(never won big as stated by DWade).......the Pistons had a team that had played together for a while and it was Billups time to shine.


Now Billups is paired with Carmelo like he should have been from the start.

Hangtime
04-04-2011, 12:40 PM
Looks like 80 percent of the posts in this thread stated the obvious reasons why the Lakers lost. I don't think it's that difficult to understand.

sevencastro
04-04-2011, 01:04 PM
I agree 100%.......Also, Kobe's bad FG% was a result of not getting any calls. He has never shot 38% in a playoff series other than that one....The refs made sure the Lakers lost that series. Game five was one of the most corrupted officiating fixes in sports history. Everyone knew it was fixed and no one cared because they all wanted to see the Lakers lose so badly and everyone hated Kobe because of the rape too. I remember all the Laker haters I knew admitting that they knew it was fixed, but they were still cheering for bad calls just to see the Lakers lose.

Kobe and Shaq averaged a combined 20 freethrow attempts per game during the playoffs, but only averaged a combined 9 attempts in that series. The Lakers were top in freethrow attempts that season, yet barely went to the line that series, while the Pistons were bottom in freethrow attempts and went to the line more than any other playoff team in the NBA. This was one of the worst fixing jobs in NBA history. Stern should be ashamed and so should the fans who supported this disgrace.

jajajajajajajaja lol dude the lakers can talk bout the nba fixing games just remember 02 kings lakers

sevencastro
04-04-2011, 01:08 PM
n yes pistons were the better team just cause u have the better players doesnt mean u have the best team chemistry was a factor in that series i just cant believe some people were tryin to blame shaq when everybody knows it was kobe that brought the downfall for the lakers

jezzyman05
04-04-2011, 01:16 PM
Matchups, matchups, matchups. The Pistons, and their slow down, dragging defense (along with a beast defensively at C to help slow Shaq), and the fact that the Lakers didn't play as a team in that series doomed them.

The Pistons just had the right equation, and were a style of play and strengths the Lakers had problems with

Took the words right out of my mouth :clap:

twoearl
04-04-2011, 01:21 PM
Ben Wallace was able to play Shaq 1v1, thus allowing the player that normally double teams Shaq to provide double team coverage on Kobe on the perimeter instead. This allowed the Pistons to play man defense and prevent the Lakers from getting easy shots in the perimeter. Shaq got his points against Wallace, but it wasn't enough to win by himself because the Pistons doubled Kobe and other players in the perimeter to force turnovers. It was an amazing scheme, and it has been mimicked by the Celtics these last few years when defending the Lakers as well. It seems as if this defensive scheme is the Triangle offense's Achilles heel. :shrug:

Great job. As an Pistons fan, I couldn't have said it better myself. This is the anwser to your question..

jezzyman05
04-04-2011, 01:22 PM
I agree 100%.......Also, Kobe's bad FG% was a result of not getting any calls. He has never shot 38% in a playoff series other than that one....The refs made sure the Lakers lost that series. Game five was one of the most corrupted officiating fixes in sports history. Everyone knew it was fixed and no one cared because they all wanted to see the Lakers lose so badly and everyone hated Kobe because of the rape too. I remember all the Laker haters I knew admitting that they knew it was fixed, but they were still cheering for bad calls just to see the Lakers lose.

Kobe and Shaq averaged a combined 20 freethrow attempts per game during the playoffs, but only averaged a combined 9 attempts in that series. The Lakers were top in freethrow attempts that season, yet barely went to the line that series, while the Pistons were bottom in freethrow attempts and went to the line more than any other playoff team in the NBA. This was one of the worst fixing jobs in NBA history. Stern should be ashamed and so should the fans who supported this disgrace.


Typical Laker Fan blame it on everything else, the Pistons dominated you just admit it and move on. I hate the Lakers but I do not forget how the Lakers dominated my Spurs from 2000-2002...... :facepalm:


By the way glasshouse remember Derek Fisher's .4 shot what about that call....... what do you say about that call no way in hell anybody can inbound the ball...from cross court not to mention, and shoot a textbook jumpshot in.4 seconds! it's impossible everyone that know that knows basketball knows that, even some of the refs said that messed up the shot clock on that one because the faster anyone can inbound the ball and get a shot off is .6 seconds....cry me a river dude the lakers and thier fans are the last ones that should crying about miss calls and stern fixing games and don't get me started with the 2002 Playoffs against the Kings.

Sandman
04-04-2011, 01:25 PM
I think this might be the all-time example of a good TEAM. There was no one guy above all the others on the Pistons. On the other-side, you had Kobe and Shaq arguing over whose team it was. Add Gary Payton and Karl Malone and the team looked like a Goliath that couldn't be defeated.

A great team played hard and beat a better team that was full of hot air.

Tony_Starks
04-04-2011, 03:32 PM
Lakers where the better team. Malone was hurt and they had absolutely no answer for Sheed. I remember they had Slava trying to defend him, it was a joke. He did whatever he wanted.

Also quite as kept Ben Wallace was running circles around Shaq......

Fireworld
04-04-2011, 03:42 PM
Simple. They were the better TEAM.

SteveNash
04-04-2011, 04:06 PM
People underrated defense. They saw ECF games in the 60s and thought they were just bad.

JordansBulls
04-04-2011, 05:06 PM
I agree 100%.......Also, Kobe's bad FG% was a result of not getting any calls. He has never shot 38% in a playoff series other than that one....The refs made sure the Lakers lost that series. Game five was one of the most corrupted officiating fixes in sports history. Everyone knew it was fixed and no one cared because they all wanted to see the Lakers lose so badly and everyone hated Kobe because of the rape too. I remember all the Laker haters I knew admitting that they knew it was fixed, but they were still cheering for bad calls just to see the Lakers lose.

Kobe and Shaq averaged a combined 20 freethrow attempts per game during the playoffs, but only averaged a combined 9 attempts in that series. The Lakers were top in freethrow attempts that season, yet barely went to the line that series, while the Pistons were bottom in freethrow attempts and went to the line more than any other playoff team in the NBA. This was one of the worst fixing jobs in NBA history. Stern should be ashamed and so should the fans who supported this disgrace.
:confused::confused:

He shot 37% in the finals in 2000 and 35% against Portland in 2002 off the top of my head.

jezzyman05
04-05-2011, 09:14 AM
:confused::confused:

He shot 37% in the finals in 2000 and 35% against Portland in 2002 off the top of my head.

Come on JordansBulls its was the refs, never Kobe

mttwlsn16
04-05-2011, 09:46 AM
Talent alone doesn't win games.

dont tell that to the heat


but they lost bc theyre the fakers

el_primo_nano
04-05-2011, 10:28 AM
Ego, and the sheer hatred Kobe and Shaq had for each other that year. They played as individuals and not as a team.

SteveNash
04-05-2011, 05:20 PM
:confused::confused:

He shot 37% in the finals in 2000 and 35% against Portland in 2002 off the top of my head.

You have one hell of a memory.

richiesaurus310
04-05-2011, 05:31 PM
I always thought this team woulda been way better if the Lakers had covinced John Stockton to come with Karl Malone to LA rather than Gary Payton.


Gary Payton- 15 pts, 5.5 assists, 1 steal, 47% FG, 33% 3pt fg, 71% Free throw, 35 minutes per game

John Stockton (prior year)- 11 pts, 8 assists, 2 steals, 48% fg, 36% 3pt fg, 83% free throw, 28 minutes per game

And the 7 extra minutes coulda been given to Derek Fisher who that year averaged:

7 pts, 2 assists, 1 steal, 35% fg, 29% 3pt fg, 71% ft, 22 minutes per game

Could John Stockton have gaurded Chauncey Ray Billups better is the question?? And how much better would the Lakers offense had been with John Stockton running things against the Pistons?

nickdymez
04-05-2011, 06:24 PM
If they "clearly had the better team," they wouldn't have gotten dropkicked in five games. Detroit was better; plain and simple.


Yeah? And if Sam Cassell and/or Troy Hudson were healthy in the WCF that year, the Lakers wouldn't have even gotten by Minnesota.

Your comparing Sam Cassell and troy Hudson to Karl malone? Delete your account and kill yourself

Car Ramrod
04-05-2011, 06:29 PM
They were the better team. The Pistons won the series and were the better team. The Lakers were beat and outplayed, plain and simple. The Pistons slowed them down and played the best help defense I have ever seen. It had absolutely nothing to do with the league. They wanted to win more.

Not to mention the Pistons had a deep bench. Makes me curious to see what the Nuggets are going to do in the playoffs. They don't have a Ben Wallace but they are deep and if they can stay in the games could really upset a big seed in the west.

Klivlend
04-05-2011, 06:55 PM
Your comparing Sam Cassell and troy Hudson to Karl malone? Delete your account and kill yourself

Here you go again, another hate filled post. What is your deal, lady?

madmoochie
04-05-2011, 07:06 PM
no answer for billups and ben wallace did about as good a job guarding shaq as it was possible at that time

nickdymez
04-05-2011, 08:07 PM
Here you go again, another hate filled post. What is your deal, lady?

You sound stupid

Klivlend
04-06-2011, 01:02 PM
You sound stupid

And, another one. Not that I'm surprised.

da wood
04-06-2011, 01:27 PM
it was a combo of a few things. First of all the league didn't create this team. this was actually the first time the NBA had seen a Safisticated defense. It was also about matchup and the fact that Karl Malone was hurt changed things alot.

nickdymez
04-06-2011, 01:33 PM
And, another one. Not that I'm surprised.

ok, i'll only make "loving" posts because your a sissy.

SteBO
04-06-2011, 01:47 PM
1) Chauncey Billups kept destroying Gary Payton on P&R's.

2) Karl Malone was old, and it didn't help that he got hurt during the series.

rickshaw
04-06-2011, 02:22 PM
Your comparing Sam Cassell and troy Hudson to Karl malone? Delete your account and kill yourself

it was 2004... cassell was more important to minny than an old malone was to la..

nickdymez
04-06-2011, 02:39 PM
1) Chauncey Billups kept destroying Gary Payton on P&R's.

2) Karl Malone was old, and it didn't help that he got hurt during the series.

Malone was playing hurt before the series

benzni
04-06-2011, 02:41 PM
who cares, they win every other year

Wade>You
04-06-2011, 02:48 PM
cuz they were a bunch a talent thrown together n not a teamEvery franchise in the NBA will take a bunch of talent thrown together if it meant reaching the NBA Finals, especially in their first season together.

At the same time, some people take sh-t for granted. I can't imagine a fan of a small market team, that stays stuck in the lottery almost every year, ever saying they wouldn't like to reach the Finals.

I know that reason given was media / talking-head nonsense, but anybody with perspective will tell you that line of thinking is stupid.

leftymo
04-06-2011, 04:42 PM
I think a healthy Malone would've changed that series. I'm not sure if LA would have won, but the Lakers were a better team than what they showed in the 04 finals. I mean they got to the finals despite not being the #1 seed.

Once Malone was ineffective, Sheed dominated Slava Medvedenko, and Shaq couldn't match Wallace's effort down low. Kobe played awfully and Prince really shut him down.

Even the game where Shaq was dominating, the Lakers were still trailing in that game, and then things would fall apart. Malone for that entire season was the "glue" of the team, he made it go, he made the plays that changed momentum, gave LA a push...

But I'm sure most laker fans can use the "injury" excuse for losses in the finals to the pistons (see Magic & Byron).