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View Full Version : How elite is Chicago's defense compared to recent years?



ManRam
04-02-2011, 12:34 PM
This seems to be a polarizing topic for a variety of reasons, but irregardless, a lot of people have been alluding to it, so I think it would be good to have a post exploring how good their team defense has been this year. I've said a few times that I think this is the best defense since the Celtics championship team, so I figured I'd back it up.

In the last 5 seasons, there have been 3 teams that have posted a better defensive rating (points scored per 100 possessions).

1. 2007-2008 Boston Celtics: 98.9
2. 2006-2007 Chicago Bulls: 99.6
3. 2006-2007 San Antonio Spurs: 99.9
4. 2010-2011 Chicago Bulls: 100.0

Even go back to the banning of hand checking (greatly altered defensive statistics) prior to the 2004-2005 season, only 5 teams, in 7 years, have put up a better defensive rating.

In the last 5 seasons, only one team has had a better opponent eFG%.

1. 2007-2008 Boston Celtics: 45.7%
2. 2010-2011 Chicago Bulls: 46.2%
3. 2008-2009 Orlando Magic: 46.5%


The Bulls haven't given up over 100 points in a regulation game in 19 games.

They have given up over 100 points 14 times this season (4 of them occured in OT or 2OT games).

Only 3 times have they allowed over 100 points at home. Compare that to the second best defensive team, Boston, who has given up over 100 twelve times at home this season!

They've held teams to under 80 points 12 times this year. Boston has 6 of those. LA has done it twice. Miami 6.


The defensive consistency is just remarkable.

They have scored 90 or fewer points 18 times this season, they are 13-5 in those games. That's a win% of 72%. When they most need the defense to step up and stop the other team, it does. That defense just shuts teams down when it needs to. Best 4th quarter defense by an even wider margin in the NBA as well, allowing teams to under 22 points in that quarter.


Boston, for comparison sake, has a win% in games where they've scored 90 or fewer is of 37%.




And if you're interested in a nice statistical look at whether or not defense does win championships, take a look at this (http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7276).

Some other food for thought...

The Bulls lead the league in margin of victory (+7.2). According to B-R, only 69 teams ever have had a season margin of victory of over +6.5. Of those 69, 32 made the Finals.

I still think, because of that defense, because they do have a player that can score in the 4th quarter, and because of their size and depth, they're my favorite to get out of the East.

But there's my proof for why I think this is the best defensive team since Boston. So I'm not just making it up ;)

hugepatsfan
04-02-2011, 12:36 PM
You're probably right. 07-08 BOS followed closely by CHI.

Tarheels23
04-02-2011, 12:55 PM
You do realize that the man responsible for the 07-08 Celtics defense is in Chicago now right?

Hawkeye15
04-02-2011, 01:00 PM
You do realize that the man responsible for the 07-08 Celtics defense is in Chicago now right?

well, he deserves some credit, no doubt. But Kevin Garnett is arguably the best interior/exterior combo defender in the last 12 years, so he was kind of a help.

But there sure is a common denominator between those two teams. Thibs

smiddy012
04-02-2011, 01:01 PM
Yeah the Bulls have really been able to step their game up in the 4th - they kind of remind me of the 06 (?) Bears where no matter how far they're behind they're still in it - I'm sure the Bulls players feel that way too, especially since they got probably the best defensive coach in the game along with arguably the best closer/finisher in the game (I would lean towards Kobe as the best however). Also, guys like KT and Gibson and especially Asik are solid defenders. Asik has a ton of potential, he is goin to be a complete stud sooner or later. And what's the amazing part is that they've done it without Noah a bunch, who is probably their most important piece defensively (although Deng has been the most important defender this season - he can also play PF).

tredigs
04-02-2011, 01:02 PM
You do realize that the man responsible for the 07-08 Celtics defense is in Chicago now right?

Garnett plays in Boston - and make no mistake, Thibs work ethic (demanding it of the players) and defensive genius aside - he was the forefront of their turnaround.

ManRam if your comment was made a couple months ago, I would point right at the wall that is Boston and say "good luck", but without Perk, they're susceptible. If Shaq's as healthy as he can be, they're still likely to beat Chi - and if Haslem is as healthy as can be, the Heat have a very good chance as well, but there's no doubt that this defense is one for the ages.

It's a great team. Like a lot of their players. I really can't say anything bad about them.

kozelkid
04-02-2011, 01:05 PM
I'd like to add another thing I recenetly found on ESPN that adds to their 4th quarter and defensive brilliance.


by ESPNChiBulls
.@ESPNStatsInfo: Bulls have outscored their opponents by 201 pts in the 4th quarter. No other team has outscored its opponents by 100 pts.


This was posted in the beginning of the week.
Honestly, I'd compare our defense to an anaconda. :laugh2: Our defense as the game goes on, chokes the life out of the opposing team.

kozelkid
04-02-2011, 01:08 PM
Garnett plays in Boston - and make no mistake, Thibs work ethic (demanding it of the players) and defensive genius aside - he was the forefront of their turnaround.

ManRam if your comment was made a couple months ago, I would point right at the wall that is Boston and say "good luck", but without Perk, they're susceptible. If Shaq's as healthy as he can be, they're still likely to beat Chi - and if Haslem is as healthy as can be, the Heat have a very good chance as well, but there's no doubt that this defense is one for the ages.

It's a great team. Like a lot of their players. I really can't say anything bad about them.

Not when the Bulls will likely be much fresher and with HC advantage in hopefully the ECF.

ManRam
04-02-2011, 01:13 PM
You do realize that the man responsible for the 07-08 Celtics defense is in Chicago now right?

I do...which is why I think he should win COY easily. If anything, it's just a testament to Thibs, and how he has solidified himself as a defensive mastermind and guru, if anyone doubted it before. The work he's done with this team has been tremendous. Sure, there are new bits and pieces, but the tangible change has been defense. He's changed it from an average defensive team to an absolutely elite defensive team in one year...and it's not like he brought KG with him. He's amazing. Teams were so reluctant to hire him as a head coach for so long because he's so meticulous, demanding and basically obsessive. I'm glad he's having success.

The defensive rating has gone from 105.3 to 100.0 in a single season. That numerical jump isn't unprecedented at all, but to go from average to elite is a lot more impressive than to go from atrocious to average (like what Philly, NO etc. have done this year). They jumped from 11th to 1st. That's pretty amazing...especially just knowing that Thibs came in here with that in mind, and with the goal of making this an elite defensive team. Major props for that.

ManRam
04-02-2011, 01:18 PM
Garnett plays in Boston - and make no mistake, Thibs work ethic (demanding it of the players) and defensive genius aside - he was the forefront of their turnaround.

ManRam if your comment was made a couple months ago, I would point right at the wall that is Boston and say "good luck", but without Perk, they're susceptible. If Shaq's as healthy as he can be, they're still likely to beat Chi - and if Haslem is as healthy as can be, the Heat have a very good chance as well, but there's no doubt that this defense is one for the ages.

It's a great team. Like a lot of their players. I really can't say anything bad about them.

I haven't become a believer of the Bulls really until the Perk trade honestly. The timing was partially coincdental, because Boston did start looking a bit more mortal then, but ever since the AS break, I think the East has become wide open. I definitely wasn't being this bold before that, for certain. I love and respect Perk, especially his defense, as much as anyone in this league (hard not to when he is one of the few that can shut down Dwight one on one still). I don't think that trade helps them out this year at all.

I really do think they're the favorites in the East. If Boston was scoring 100 points a game with ease, which they are not, I might not be singing this tune. But if it's a low scoring game, even as amazing and experienced as Boston is, Chicago with HCA I think is too much to handle. Boston scores at a more anemic rate than Chicago.

Boston has shown they can flip the switch, but that anchor isn't there, and they just look different lately.

kozelkid
04-02-2011, 01:19 PM
My only problem with Thibs is that 90% of his practices are strictly defense. :laugh2:
As long he doesn't turn into Scott Skiles, who ultimately always wears out his welcome by not giving a **** about offense and being too hard on players, then I'll be happy. Then again, it's also very nice to have a player on your team who will always take criticism and is very humble and with him, the team will follow. Cause I'm not sure how long Thibs would last with a team if their leader was a prima donna.

IamKaiserSoze
04-02-2011, 01:23 PM
thibs has made such a difference. last year, the bulls had vinny as coach. nice guy. but a horrible coach. some say it doesn't matter who coaches a team...that players have to play...and they do. but thibs has the players believing in a system that works. he has turned drose into a decent (and still improving) defensive player...when defense was a liabilty for him. boozer, on the other hand...

Teufelshunde4
04-02-2011, 01:28 PM
I do...which is why I think he should win COY easily. If anything, it's just a testament to Thibs, and how he has solidified himself as a defensive mastermind and guru, if anyone doubted it before. The work he's done with this team has been tremendous. Sure, there are new bits and pieces, but the tangible change has been defense. He's changed it from an average defensive team to an absolutely elite defensive team in one year...and it's not like he brought KG with him. He's amazing. Teams were so reluctant to hire him as a head coach for so long because he's so meticulous, demanding and basically obsessive. I'm glad he's having success.



Thibs strong suit is getting guys to play TEAM defense more then anything else... Would any Celtics fans call Ray Allen or Paul Pierce elite defenders? I would argue that despite having a top rated defense that the Bulls only have few above avg. defenders. Brewer, Deng and Gibson stand out to me.... The rest are avg to below avg and the team concept they have bought into has been successful..

theheatles
04-02-2011, 01:29 PM
I'd like to add another thing I recenetly found on ESPN that adds to their 4th quarter and defensive brilliance.



This was posted in the beginning of the week.
Honestly, I'd compare our defense to an anaconda. :laugh2: Our defense as the game goes on, chokes the life out of the opposing team.

ur sig:worthy:

Crackadalic
04-02-2011, 01:30 PM
I wouldnt be surprise if they did go to the nba finals

PurpleJesus28
04-02-2011, 01:31 PM
My only problem with Thibs is that 90% of his practices are strictly defense. :laugh2:
As long he doesn't turn into Scott Skiles, who ultimately always wears out his welcome by not giving a **** about offense and being too hard on players, then I'll be happy. Then again, it's also very nice to have a player on your team who will always take criticism and is very humble and with him, the team will follow. Cause I'm not sure how long Thibs would last with a team if their leader was a prima donna.

i think that was huge for thibs this season, the fact that his star player bought into his system. everyone else had no other choice but to follow. thibs has done a phenomenal job this season, he was the coach i really wanted in the off season but did think we'd actually get him. scary though, i only expect our defense to get better in the upcoming years. that stat that someone posted about outscoring our opponents by 201 points in the 4th quarter is ridiculous, our ability to shut teams down when we need to his huge. boston has looked liked they have lost their edge w/o Perkins, but their still a veteran team who knows what it takes. the fact that thibs was there in boston i think is also huge for us this year, he knows what kinda mind-frame he needs his players to be in the post season, how hard to work em, etc.

great post :clap:, really hope this doesn't just turn into another "rose shouldn't be mvp" thread in a couple pages though.

D1JM
04-02-2011, 01:32 PM
My only problem with Thibs is that 90% of his practices are strictly defense. :laugh2:
As long he doesn't turn into Scott Skiles, who ultimately always wears out his welcome by not giving a **** about offense and being too hard on players, then I'll be happy. Then again, it's also very nice to have a player on your team who will always take criticism and is very humble and with him, the team will follow. Cause I'm not sure how long Thibs would last with a team if their leader was a prima donna.

Hey at least we invest 10% of practice into offense.

Slimsim
04-02-2011, 01:38 PM
Rose bulls going to win it this year that's a sick stat

madvillian9
04-02-2011, 01:39 PM
I'd like to add another thing I recenetly found on ESPN that adds to their 4th quarter and defensive brilliance.



This was posted in the beginning of the week.
Honestly, I'd compare our defense to an anaconda. :laugh2: Our defense as the game goes on, chokes the life out of the opposing team.

This is insane.

ManRam
04-02-2011, 01:45 PM
I'd like to add another thing I recenetly found on ESPN that adds to their 4th quarter and defensive brilliance.



This was posted in the beginning of the week.
Honestly, I'd compare our defense to an anaconda. :laugh2: Our defense as the game goes on, chokes the life out of the opposing team.

That just insane. I tried to find more stuff on their 4th quarter defense, because it's just so glaringly obvious how they just shut teams down in the 4th. Just off the top of my head...the Milwaukee game, the Memphis game, the Indy game (they lost in OT, but they absolutely stormed back because of the defense) and so on. Rose and company have been very clutch and great at getting timely baskets, but that defense posts some insane 4th quarter lines.


I looked it up. They held Indy to 13 points, Milwaukee to 13 points...that's just amazing. Granted, neither are great teams, but they just step it up when it counts.

tredigs
04-02-2011, 01:48 PM
Thibs strong suit is getting guys to play TEAM defense more then anything else... Would any Celtics fans call Ray Allen or Paul Pierce elite defenders? I would argue that despite having a top rated defense that the Bulls only have few above avg. defenders. Brewer, Deng and Gibson stand out to me.... The rest are avg to below avg and the team concept they have bought into has been successful..

Yup, couldn't agree more.

madvillian9
04-02-2011, 01:50 PM
That just insane. I tried to find more stuff on their 4th quarter defense, because it's just so glaringly obvious how they just shut teams down in the 4th. Just off the top of my head...the Milwaukee game, the Memphis game, the Indy game (they lost in OT, but they absolutely stormed back because of the defense) and so on. Rose and company have been very clutch and great at getting timely baskets, but that defense posts some insane 4th quarter lines.


I looked it up. They held Indy to 13 points, Milwaukee to 13 points...that's just amazing. Granted, neither are great teams, but they just step it up when it counts.

Bulls-187.5
Jazz-106.5
Magic-106.5
Heat-98.8

Not quite a 2 to 1 ratio but still impressive

Chronz
04-02-2011, 02:01 PM
Thibs comes from the school of morey/van gundy. Shame that some were doubting his coaching.

Manram would you mind looking up their defensive rating vs league average and comparing it to boston. This is one way you can account for rule changes so you can compare the bulls d vs any other.

The bulls have a great system but you still need the personnel to accomplish these kind of results. Taj fils in as a mini kg, asik/kurt provide the bulk, deng has always been a defensive stud much like pierce before kg, brewer/bogans are more than adequate defensively though I find them somewhat overrated. Rose is huge for a pg and cj plays the lanes well

Southsideheat
04-02-2011, 02:10 PM
And who is the PG in the 4th for the Bulls? Hint: it's not CJ Watson.

ManRam
04-02-2011, 02:14 PM
And who is the PG in the 4th for the Bulls? Hint: it's not CJ Watson.

:worthy: Derrick Rose :worthy:





And Chronz...I'll try to assemble that info. I found a good chunk of it earlier, but not all of it. I need to get to studying, but as a study break later I'll try to get those up too.

nitric
04-02-2011, 02:15 PM
This thread is a jinx! first round exit confirmed :(

-Kobe24-TJ19-
04-02-2011, 02:48 PM
That just insane. I tried to find more stuff on their 4th quarter defense, because it's just so glaringly obvious how they just shut teams down in the 4th. Just off the top of my head...the Milwaukee game, the Memphis game, the Indy game (they lost in OT, but they absolutely stormed back because of the defense) and so on. Rose and company have been very clutch and great at getting timely baskets, but that defense posts some insane 4th quarter lines.


I looked it up. They held Indy to 13 points, Milwaukee to 13 points...that's just amazing. Granted, neither are great teams, but they just step it up when it counts.

Lakers 2nd half defense is sick too after AS break.

We are always blowing teams out in the 2nd half, giving only 30-40 points, like last night against utah.

John Walls Era
04-02-2011, 03:14 PM
Comparable to the Celtics D when they won a championship. But ORtg and DRtg is not as good (just a few points worse, but still good enough to be ranked first in the league).

fadedmario
04-02-2011, 03:32 PM
03-04 Pistons >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bulls

redwhitenblue
04-02-2011, 03:33 PM
03-04 Pistons >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bulls
Wasn't that before the hand check rule?

ChI_ShIzzLe
04-02-2011, 06:02 PM
And who is the PG in the 4th for the Bulls? Hint: it's not CJ Watson.

Well to CJ's credit, he does start and plays about 5 mins into 4th quarters :p