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LOOTERX9
03-31-2011, 06:43 PM
No Point Guards should be in top 5 list of NBA players. Because Top Point Guards that are the lead players for their team never win championships. Top Wing Players and Big Men win most of the titles in NBA. In Past 20 years no superstar PG led team has won a title. PG position is important but you don't need a star at pg to win titles at all. So why put a star PG in top 5 when history tells us that they don't win titles in this league at all. Top 5 should be all wing players and big men, those are the championship contenders. Superstar PG's actually hurt chances of winning titles, especially the score first PG's. So why waste a spot in top 5 list putting a PG in?

asandhu23
03-31-2011, 06:45 PM
you, sir, are ridiculous.

RaiderLakersA's
03-31-2011, 06:45 PM
Magic Johnson is somewhere laughing at your post right now.

redwhitenblue
03-31-2011, 06:45 PM
But you can say that about almost any position.

There have been teams that win without great big men (Bulls in the 90's, give me some Luc Longley!). There have been teams that have won without fantastic wing players. It's usually the best team that wins, regardless of where the best players lie on that team.

Swashcuff
03-31-2011, 06:46 PM
Could a mod please take the rubbish out and delete (not lock) this thread.

haggis
03-31-2011, 06:47 PM
canttellifserious?

John Walls Era
03-31-2011, 06:48 PM
Magic Johnson and Isiah Thomas are laughing at you.

Hellcrooner
03-31-2011, 06:48 PM
No Point Guards should be in top 5 list of NBA players. Because Top Point Guards that are the lead players for their team never win championships. Top Wing Players and Big Men win most of the titles in NBA. In Past 20 years no superstar PG lead team has won a title. PG position is important but you don't need a star at pg to win titles at all. So why put a star PG in top 5 when history tells us that they don't win titles in this league at all. Top 5 should be all wing players and big men, those are the championship contenders. Superstar PG's actually hurt chances of winning titles, especially the score first PG's

cousy, magic, thomas, frazier say otherwise

abe_froman
03-31-2011, 06:48 PM
they dont win titles? magic,isiah,cousy,fraizer all say hello

Thegame187
03-31-2011, 06:56 PM
Jezz u could even say billups and Parker (both PG's were finals MVP's in the last 7 years) thats 2 of the last 6!!!!

gotoHcarolina52
03-31-2011, 06:56 PM
But you can say that about almost any position.

There have been teams that win without great big men (Bulls in the 90's, give me some Luc Longley!). There have been teams that have won without fantastic wing players. It's usually the best team that wins, regardless of where the best players lie on that team.

Wade and James are the two best players on the floor on any given night, yet the Heat don't have any big men worthy of mention. Are they championship contenders under your theory?

AIMelo=KillaDUO
03-31-2011, 06:59 PM
lol :facepalm:

Doogolas
03-31-2011, 07:00 PM
Wade and James are the two best players on the floor on any given night, yet the Heat don't have any big men worthy of mention. Are they championship contenders under your theory?

Lol, the Heat have more problems than just lack of big men that keep them from Chip contenders, at least in my eyes.

They're still a damn good team though.

jsimms92
03-31-2011, 07:01 PM
yeah D rose and tony parker are definitely hurting their teams chances of winning it all

redwhitenblue
03-31-2011, 07:02 PM
Wade and James are the two best players on the floor on any given night, yet the Heat don't have any big men worthy of mention. Are they championship contenders under your theory?
My theory?

My theory is there is the best team wins. Keyword: "team". I don't have a theory on the best players idea.

If Wade and James include their teammates in good fashion and play good D, they can certainly win.

Rocketsfan85
03-31-2011, 07:05 PM
Yea I feel u on this cuz I believe pg can score but they can't be ur leading scorer on a team they need to be facilitators and leaders on the court not leading scorers

theheatles
03-31-2011, 07:08 PM
Twice in NBA history has a pg lead his team in scoring and won titles...magic and isaiah each did it once...soooooo, yeah...odds stacked against rose

smith&wesson
03-31-2011, 07:12 PM
Magic Johnson is somewhere laughing at your post right now.

its a good thing he said in the last 20 years


Magic Johnson and Isiah Thomas are laughing at you.

last 20 years ?


cousy, magic, thomas, frazier say otherwise

last 20 years ?


they dont win titles? magic,isiah,cousy,fraizer all say hello

last 20 years ?


lol :facepalm:

good point :confused:



listen guys i dont agree with the OP, but he does have a portion of a point. whos the best pg who was clearly the best player on his team to win a ship in the last 20 years ? I think thats a valid question

billups i would say is the best pg in our era to win a ship. maybe the game has changed... but he wasnt even clearly the best player on his team.

there have been really good pg's to win ships in the last 20 years , i dont know if they were all the best players of theyre respective teams. like toni parker, or billups, great pg's but arguably not the best on theyre teams. actually parker is not even arguable, duncan clearly was the best on each of the spurs title runs. so in my mind billups stands alone here but arguments could be made the ben wallace was the guy, or rip, or rasheed wallace or prince or all, but none of them clearlyl more important or better then the other

smith&wesson
03-31-2011, 07:16 PM
you, sir, are ridiculous.

whats so ridiculous about it ? name me 5 teams in the last 20 years that have won ships with theyre pg's being the best player on theyre team. :confused:

just answer the question dude. your a vet poster, you have 10 000 posts and your ridiculing a guy who has500 posts and he is clearly not baiting or trying to make a ******** thread.

abe_froman
03-31-2011, 07:17 PM
Twice in NBA history has a pg lead his team in scoring and won titles...magic and isaiah each did it once...soooooo, yeah...odds stacked against rose

your not putting context into it though.i know people(like your doing now)like to extract a model from quick glaces like that,but its ignoring circumstances.what teams did they go up against,what did their teams look like,ect. which are major factors in making judgments but often are taken out of the equation.

what about pass first pg,they'd look even more doomed as guys like cp3,nash,kidd,stockton have gone ringless for their careers.so cant i make the claim that just by virtue of that,its impossible to win a championship having one on my team?

smith&wesson
03-31-2011, 07:20 PM
Twice in NBA history has a pg lead his team in scoring and won titles...magic and isaiah each did it once.....

this, minus the rose part. i just deleated that part in my quote.

haggis
03-31-2011, 07:20 PM
you sir need to back up your non-point.

whats so ridiculous about it ? name me 5 teams in the last 20 years that have won ships with theyre pg's being the best player on theyre team. :confused:

just answer the question dude. your a vet poster around here. set an example.

there have only been 7 different teams that have won a championship in that time frame.

hugepatsfan
03-31-2011, 07:21 PM
no comment

abe_froman
03-31-2011, 07:23 PM
you sir need to back up your non-point.

whats so ridiculous about it ? name me 5 teams in the last 20 years that have won ships with theyre pg's being the best player on theyre team. :confused:

just answer the question dude. your a vet poster around here. set an example.

the nba is prone to dynasties.in the past 20 years only 7 different teams have won championships all together.so what info can you get from that? system? just as many teams have had the same type of set up as have had different ones as the champs.timmy was a star pf and won a ring,but dirk,malone,barkley all failed.so what about teams built around star pf's,good idea or not?

theheatles
03-31-2011, 07:23 PM
your not putting context into it though.i know people(like your doing now)like to extract a model from quick glaces like that,but its ignoring circumstances.what teams did they go up against,what did their teams look like,ect. which are major factors in making judgments but often are taken out of the equation.

what about pass first pg,they'd look even more doomed as guys like cp3,nash,kidd,stockton have gone ringless for their careers.so cant i make the claim that just by virtue of that,its impossible to win a championship having one on my team?

absolutely u can make that claim...what other context can i put it in...2 times in the history of the NBA a pg led the team in scoring and a championship was won and i can argue magic was a hybrid like lebron because he played pg and forward, even center and magic won his with arguably the best center of all time

LOOTERX9
03-31-2011, 07:24 PM
you, sir, are ridiculous.

Then name 1 superstar PG that has lead his team to a championship past 20 years. If you can name one then you have proven me wrong.

chitown815
03-31-2011, 07:26 PM
There hasn't been a pg as good as Rose in the last 20 years

Swashcuff
03-31-2011, 07:26 PM
whats so ridiculous about it ? name me 5 teams in the last 20 years that have won ships with theyre pg's being the best player on theyre team. :confused:

just answer the question dude. your a vet poster, you have 10 000 posts and your ridiculing a guy who has500 posts and he is clearly not baiting or trying to make a ******** thread.

So do you think because of that fact we should say that no PG should be considered a top 5 player?

What if there are players who are the exception to that rule?

What if a player who plays the paint impacts the paint in ways (defense) that no PG can. Hence the reason why the Pistons won with Chauncey as their best player because of the impact of the Wallaces. Could be the same with Rose and Boozer and Noah this season.

He says a good PG hurts your chances at a championship. I fully agree with asandhu for calling him that.

haggis
03-31-2011, 07:28 PM
To the OP:

I don't understand your question, the thread title says "No PG should be in NBA top 5 list", then your whole argument is that a PG can't lead his team to a title. So, in your words, the only way to be top 5 in the NBA is by winning a title? So Lebron is off your list? DH12 and Durant too?

You're arguing 2 separate things in this thread...

smith&wesson
03-31-2011, 07:32 PM
So do you think because of that fact we should say that no PG should be considered a top 5 player?

What if there are players who are the exception to that rule?

What if a player who plays the paint impacts the paint in ways (defense) that no PG can. Hence the reason why the Pistons won with Chauncey as their best player because of the impact of the Wallaces. Could be the same with Rose and Boozer and Noah this season.

He says a good PG hurts your chances at a championship. I fully agree with asandhu for calling him that.

Listen in my original post i said i disagree with the OP. just the one point he made stood out to me.

theres no way i would ever say only shooting gaurds and centers should be considers top 5 players. i think any player at any position who is playing well enough can and will be considered top 5.

but at least make the point on your disagree ment.

and then answer the question, how many pg's in the last 20 years were the best player of theyre championship teams ? not many ill tell you that. thats the only point ill agree with.

but again, at least make your points. dont just ridicule someone ... only reason im saying this is because i dont think the op is trying to make ******** thread, or bait, i think he was genuwinly trying to make a point, no matter how wrong most of it sounded, just prove him wrong and sway his decsion.

LOOTERX9
03-31-2011, 07:33 PM
Magic Johnson is somewhere laughing at your post right now.

I said past 20 yrs in the modern era.

Swashcuff
03-31-2011, 07:34 PM
Then name 1 superstar PG that has lead his team to a championship past 20 years. If you can name one then you have proven me wrong.

That not why he called you ridiculous you know.


Superstar PG's actually hurt chances of winning titles

^That is why

How many of those superstar PGs have had perennial all star big men?

John Stockton, Steve Nash well if you don't know there were a couple obstacles in their way they couldn't really do much about.

abe_froman
03-31-2011, 07:35 PM
absolutely u can make that claim...what other context can i put it in...2 times in the history of the NBA a pg led the team in scoring and a championship was won and i can argue magic was a hybrid like lebron because he played pg and forward, even center and magic won his with arguably the best center of all time

can and good idea arent the same thing.again your ignoring his team and what he went against,your telling me neither have any impact on events at all? that if it was changed(say no kareem)or they went up against mj's bulls.it would have gone the exact same way just because type of player he was?

on the subject of lebron,hasnt won a ring,before celtics won in 08 no sf had lead a team to a ring since bird.so unless your the celtics ,you shouldnt have a team led by a sf? cuz thats certain to never win a ring by using your own line of logic.man being a fan of team led by a sf,i guess your screwed huh :rolleyes:

haggis
03-31-2011, 07:36 PM
nvm.

abe covered it.

PurpleJesus
03-31-2011, 07:36 PM
There hasn't been a pg as good as Rose in the last 20 years

cmon now

Chi City23
03-31-2011, 07:36 PM
Name me another SF that has led his team in scoring and won a championship other than Paul Pierce in the past 20 years..

Same can be said about the PF position and Duncan..

Swashcuff
03-31-2011, 07:37 PM
Listen in my original post i said i disagree with the OP. just the one point he made stood out to me.

theres no way i would ever say only shooting gaurds and centers should be considers top 5 players. i think any player at any position who is playing well enough can and will be considered top 5.

but at least make the point on your disagree ment.

and then answer the question, how many pg's in the last 20 years were the best player of theyre championship teams ? not many ill tell you that. thats the only point ill agree with.

but again, at least make your points. dont just ridicule someone ... only reason im saying this is because i dont think the op is trying to make ******** thread, or bait, i think he was genuwinly trying to make a point, no matter how wrong most of it sounded, just prove him wrong and sway his decsion.

I think the OP was fixing for a being bashed by the way he said no PG should be considered a top 5 player.

Sox72
03-31-2011, 07:37 PM
Wow. What a thread.

Swashcuff
03-31-2011, 07:39 PM
Name me another SF that has led his team in scoring and won a championship other than Paul Pierce in the past 20 years..

:cricket:

LOOTERX9
03-31-2011, 07:39 PM
cousy, magic, thomas, frazier say otherwise

I said in the modern era. Not when TV was in black and white.

Swashcuff
03-31-2011, 07:40 PM
I said in the modern era. Not when TV was in black and white.

3 of those players played in the modern era

dreday
03-31-2011, 07:41 PM
No Point Guards should be in top 5 list of NBA players. Because Top Point Guards that are the lead players for their team never win championships. Top Wing Players and Big Men win most of the titles in NBA. In Past 20 years no superstar PG lead team has won a title. PG position is important but you don't need a star at pg to win titles at all. So why put a star PG in top 5 when history tells us that they don't win titles in this league at all. Top 5 should be all wing players and big men, those are the championship contenders. Superstar PG's actually hurt chances of winning titles, especially the score first PG's

Is this a joke D Rose will lead the Bulls to a title and do you know who Isaiah Thomas is.....he won back to back titles in Motown........how old are you

dreday
03-31-2011, 07:42 PM
its a good thing he said in the last 20 years



last 20 years ?



last 20 years ?



last 20 years ?



good point :confused:



listen guys i dont agree with the OP, but he does have a portion of a point. whos the best pg who was clearly the best player on his team to win a ship in the last 20 years ? I think thats a valid question

billups i would say is the best pg in our era to win a ship. maybe the game has changed... but he wasnt even clearly the best player on his team.

there have been really good pg's to win ships in the last 20 years , i dont know if they were all the best players of theyre respective teams. like toni parker, or billups, great pg's but arguably not the best on theyre teams. actually parker is not even arguable, duncan clearly was the best on each of the spurs title runs. so in my mind billups stands alone here but arguments could be made the ben wallace was the guy, or rip, or rasheed wallace or prince or all, but none of them clearlyl more important or better then the other

Great point about Billups.

LOOTERX9
03-31-2011, 07:43 PM
Jezz u could even say billups and Parker (both PG's were finals MVP's in the last 7 years) thats 2 of the last 6!!!!

Ha ha! those are not superstars that are the lead guys on their teams.

dreday
03-31-2011, 07:45 PM
Also so you must consider that todays NBA is geared toward great guard play. The rules allow pg with good to great speed to go untouched which is alot different then say the Jordan years

redwhitenblue
03-31-2011, 07:46 PM
You can say this about many teams. The last 20 years have been heavily dependent on the SG position. With rare exceptions for Tim Duncan and...well...Tim Duncan.

Crackadalic
03-31-2011, 07:47 PM
Well in the last 20 years the only pg to win a chip was Billups and Parker. Duncan was the best player on that dynasty spurs team. Billups Pretty much was as good as guys like Rip Sheed Big Ben so i wouldnt say he was the clear cut best player.

Can it be done? probably D-Rose has a strong case of that possibly happening this year if they go far

Sadds The Gr8
03-31-2011, 07:49 PM
The OP is right.

LOOTERX9
03-31-2011, 07:49 PM
Yea I feel u on this cuz I believe pg can score but they can't be ur leading scorer on a team they need to be facilitators and leaders on the court not leading scorers

I agree 100% Ya hit the nail right on the head.

Swashcuff
03-31-2011, 07:51 PM
The OP is right.

About what?

Good PGs being a bad thing?

Swashcuff
03-31-2011, 07:52 PM
To the OP why not say the same about the SF position. Based on your criteria no SF should be considered a top 5 player in the league either.

Sadds The Gr8
03-31-2011, 07:53 PM
About what?

Good PGs being a bad thing?

no that 1st option scoring PG's usually don't win.

smith&wesson
03-31-2011, 07:54 PM
To the OP why not say the same about the SF position. Based on your criteria no SF should be considered a top 5 player in the league either.

true.

IamKaiserSoze
03-31-2011, 07:55 PM
Wade and James are the two best players on the floor on any given night, yet the Heat don't have any big men worthy of mention. Are they championship contenders under your theory?

not sure he had a theory. we're getting a bit sensitive here, no? pretty sure he said best team wins.

swirl54
03-31-2011, 07:57 PM
The Rose hate continues. This whole thread screams "Rose can't do it" hate on haters.

LOOTERX9
03-31-2011, 07:57 PM
There hasn't been a pg as good as Rose in the last 20 years

Hmmm, Have you heard of J Kidd, Allen Iverson, Steve Nash, Devon Williams, CP3, Marbury, Westbrook, Stockton?

IamKaiserSoze
03-31-2011, 07:58 PM
lets forget about rose for a sec. there are a lot of great pg's in the league right now. will none of them win a title?

Sadds The Gr8
03-31-2011, 07:59 PM
There hasn't been a pg as good as Rose in the last 20 years

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

smith&wesson
03-31-2011, 07:59 PM
there have only been 7 different teams that have won a championship in that time frame.

SURE thats the point the though my man, of thoughs teams which team had the best pg and was he the best player on his team ? i still can only think of billups.

Gilly1254
03-31-2011, 08:01 PM
Ha ha! those are not superstars that are the lead guys on their teams.

Why the hate on Billups? 5X All-star, NBA Champion, Finals MVP, 2X All Second
team Defense, Team leader... Mr. Big Shot for a reason... He definitely lead that Pistons team.

LOOTERX9
03-31-2011, 08:02 PM
To the OP:

I don't understand your question, the thread title says "No PG should be in NBA top 5 list", then your whole argument is that a PG can't lead his team to a title. So, in your words, the only way to be top 5 in the NBA is by winning a title? So Lebron is off your list? DH12 and Durant too?

You're arguing 2 separate things in this thread...

I know it may seem radical but why waste a top 5 list with the star PG's when we already know that they don't win most the titles in the NBA?

Swashcuff
03-31-2011, 08:02 PM
Hmmm, Have you heard of J Kidd, Allen Iverson, Steve Nash, Devon Williams, CP3, Marbury, Westbrook, Stockton?

The fact that you list Allen Iverson as a PG tells us that you aren't much of an expert of PGs.

smith&wesson
03-31-2011, 08:02 PM
The Rose hate continues. This whole thread screams "Rose can't do it" hate on haters.

i dont think soo, i think point gaurds of today have a chance to prove this thread wrong. pg's like rose, dwill, chris paul, rondo ..

were talking last 20 years.

Swashcuff
03-31-2011, 08:04 PM
There hasn't been a pg as good as Rose in the last 20 years

:speechless:

Posts like this are the reasons posters feel the need to start threads like these.

Swashcuff
03-31-2011, 08:05 PM
I know it may seem radical but why waste a top 5 list with the star PG's when we already know that they don't win most the titles in the NBA?

And SFs as well right?

LOOTERX9
03-31-2011, 08:05 PM
I won't even draft a star PG over a star Wing player or Big man. Cause I know that in this league the star pg can get you to playoffs and a finals but will always lose to the star wing player or Big man.

The Final Boss
03-31-2011, 08:07 PM
Magic Johnson is somewhere laughing at your post right now.

What part of 'past 20 years' flew over your head? Magic is a special case since he played all 5 positions.

LOOTERX9
03-31-2011, 08:09 PM
The fact that you list Allen Iverson as a PG tells us that you aren't much of an expert of PGs.

Iverson was 50/50 PG And SG. He was really a SG in a PG's body.

Ladies Man16
03-31-2011, 08:10 PM
Maybe recently great PG's havent won, but its not there fault. there are 5 players on the court, not 1. Other guys got to step up, not just the PG. Stop hating on Rose. I know its not said, but cmon who else is this guy talking about?

Gilly1254
03-31-2011, 08:11 PM
I won't even draft a star PG over a star Wing player or Big man. Cause I know that in this league the star pg can get you to playoffs and a finals but will always lose to the star wing player or Big man.

And this is why you're dumb... So you woulda took Beasley or Mayo over Derrick Rose just because hes a star point guard. You wouldnt last long as a GM.

Avenged
03-31-2011, 08:12 PM
If you're talking top 5 as of right now, then you're probably right. No point guard is really top 5 at the moment. I have had CP3 has far as being #2 before, but not this season. I, personally, want to see what he can do with a good team before bumping him up. But there is no reason to leave PG's out of the top 5 solely because of lack of championships. Is it really Chris Paul's, Deron Williams, Rose etc.. fault that point guards in the past 20 years have failed in delivering championships that we have to rank them lower? Not really, actually, not at all.

Swashcuff
03-31-2011, 08:13 PM
Iverson was 50/50 PG And SG. He was really a SG in a PG's body.

He was what? He wasn't 50/50 nothing. Charles Barkley was a PF in a SG body that doesn't make him a SG. Allen Iverson was a SG.

BALLER R
03-31-2011, 08:16 PM
He was what? He wasn't 50/50 nothing. Charles Barkley was a PF in a SG body that doesn't make him a SG. Allen Iverson was a SG.

i can't rememeber but did he start as a sg when he entered the league. I see your point and I see the other guys point your both basically right..argument could go both ways...just saying

Gators123
03-31-2011, 08:17 PM
There hasn't been a pg as good as Rose in the last 20 years

This is why people on this site think Rose is overrated.

jrm2054
03-31-2011, 08:20 PM
:clap::clap: this thread lol

THE MTL
03-31-2011, 08:33 PM
I thought this thread was about how there are no PGs out there today that are good enough to be considered Top 5 in the NBA???? Which I agree with to an extent, Chris Paul is Top 5 in the NBA when he is healthy.

Lebron
Kobe
Wade
Durant
Howard

Anyway, going with the thread's other point. Tony Parker and Chauncey Billups are the stars of their team with they won the championship. Both were Final's MVPs. And even Tony Parker averaged the most points on his team.

Jason Kidd- lead his team to back-to-back final appearances. That deserves some type of credit as well.

stejay
03-31-2011, 08:35 PM
This post has severely annoyed me. Go Away!!!

Worst argument, worst thread, ever :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

stejay
03-31-2011, 08:41 PM
No Point Guards should be in top 5 list of NBA players. Because Top Point Guards that are the lead players for their team never win championships. Top Wing Players and Big Men win most of the titles in NBA. In Past 20 years no superstar PG lead team has won a title. PG position is important but you don't need a star at pg to win titles at all. So why put a star PG in top 5 when history tells us that they don't win titles in this league at all. Top 5 should be all wing players and big men, those are the championship contenders. Superstar PG's actually hurt chances of winning titles, especially the score first PG's

Iverson led the 76ers to a Finals. Kidd the same. Magic led the Lakers to several. Parker was arguably the Spurs joint best player when they won theirs. Billups was the Pistons best player when they won it. Isiah Thomas?!??! Stockton leading the Jazz to the Finals (Albeit with his double act, Malone), Gary Payton with the Sonics in 96?
Add to them Nash, CP3, D. Williams, Rose, even Westbrook and Rondo who have all lead their teams to the playoffs, and were unlucky. Then you have Fisher, the model of consistency and leadership skills. Does he damage the Lakers? Huh?

So yea, sit the F down.

stejay
03-31-2011, 08:44 PM
Then name 1 superstar PG that has lead his team to a championship past 20 years. If you can name one then you have proven me wrong.

Parker. Billups. Thats 2.

PhillyFaninLA
03-31-2011, 08:47 PM
No Point Guards should be in top 5 list of NBA players. Because Top Point Guards that are the lead players for their team never win championships. Top Wing Players and Big Men win most of the titles in NBA. In Past 20 years no superstar PG lead team has won a title. PG position is important but you don't need a star at pg to win titles at all. So why put a star PG in top 5 when history tells us that they don't win titles in this league at all. Top 5 should be all wing players and big men, those are the championship contenders. Superstar PG's actually hurt chances of winning titles, especially the score first PG's


Yeah I know what you mean Magic Johnson did nothing to help win titles.

Also you really think Magic, Oscar Robertson, Isiah, Stockton, Cousy, Frazier, Kidd, Archibald, and Mo Cheeks couldn't lead a team.

Trivia question for:

How many titles did the 76ers win in the late 70's and early 80's before Mo Cheeks came to down?

FadeAwayLikeMJ
03-31-2011, 08:59 PM
Smh

Some people's kids...

Chi City23
03-31-2011, 09:01 PM
Say which PGs do win you championships if you are so knowledgeable? Name me the PG that won on those Bulls teams.. or the PG on the Heat when they won.. or the PG that the Lakers won with.. my point is there is no difference between those teams and this years Bulls team because those teams didn't have 'pass first' PGs and their leading scorers were also their best distributors if you think about it.

Wade, MJ and Kobe (pre Shaq) dominated the ball when they won their titles and their PGs were there to hit open shots and play defense AND THATS IT.. whats the difference between them and Rose this year? Nothing other than the TITLE of the position they play.

stejay
03-31-2011, 09:03 PM
Yeah I know what you mean Magic Johnson did nothing to help win titles.

Also you really think Magic, Oscar Robertson, Isiah, Stockton, Cousy, Frazier, Kidd, Archibald, and Mo Cheeks couldn't lead a team.

Trivia question for:

How many titles did the 76ers win in the late 70's and early 80's before Mo Cheeks came to down?

1 finals in '77, but 0 Championships. Furthering the point....

I still cant get over the OP

stejay
03-31-2011, 09:06 PM
Say which PGs do win you championships if you are so knowledgeable? Name me the PG that won on those Bulls teams.. or the PG on the Heat when they won.. or the PG that the Lakers won with.. my point is there is no difference between those teams and this years Bulls team because those teams didn't have 'pass first' PGs and their leading scorers were also their best distributors if you think about it.

Wade, MJ and Kobe (pre Shaq) dominated the ball when they won their titles and their PGs were there to hit open shots and play defense AND THATS IT.. whats the difference between them and Rose this year? Nothing other than the TITLE of the position they play.

Payton for the Heat, Fisher for the Lakers, Kerr for the Bulls. I cant believe people are saying PG dont matter

stejay
03-31-2011, 09:07 PM
Payton for the Heat, Fisher for the Lakers, Kerr for the Bulls. I cant believe people are saying PG dont matter

And a Bulls fan should know Steve Kerr is the most accurate 3PT shooter ever...

LOOTERX9
03-31-2011, 09:07 PM
lets forget about rose for a sec. there are a lot of great pg's in the league right now. will none of them win a title?

No other superstar point guards will win title either being the lead man. Not Just Rose

stejay
03-31-2011, 09:09 PM
No other superstar point guards will win title either being the lead man. Not Just Rose

CP3 has a chance. As does Westbrook. Neither of them has a "great" big man. Rose has a chance also.

Chi City23
03-31-2011, 09:13 PM
Payton for the Heat, Fisher for the Lakers, Kerr for the Bulls. I cant believe people are saying PG dont matter

:laugh2: I knew the answers just was proving my point that those guys weren't really setup PGs that handled the ball the majority of the time.. and that Rose plays the exact same way a Wade or Kobe plays on their respective teams.

Chi City23
03-31-2011, 09:14 PM
No other superstar point guards will win title either being the lead man. Not Just Rose

Really?? I didn't know you could predict the future :rolleyes:

MSU4life
03-31-2011, 09:14 PM
No Point Guards should be in top 5 list of NBA players. Because Top Point Guards that are the lead players for their team never win championships. Top Wing Players and Big Men win most of the titles in NBA. In Past 20 years no superstar PG lead team has won a title. PG position is important but you don't need a star at pg to win titles at all. So why put a star PG in top 5 when history tells us that they don't win titles in this league at all. Top 5 should be all wing players and big men, those are the championship contenders. Superstar PG's actually hurt chances of winning titles, especially the score first PG's

Isiah Thomas led his team to two :facepalm:

LOOTERX9
03-31-2011, 09:15 PM
Why the hate on Billups? 5X All-star, NBA Champion, Finals MVP, 2X All Second
team Defense, Team leader... Mr. Big Shot for a reason... He definitely lead that Pistons team.

Well no one considered Billups a star or top 5 player, Never

Chi City23
03-31-2011, 09:17 PM
Isiah Thomas led his team to two :facepalm:

The OP listed the past 20 years so Isiah doesn't qualify cuz he won it 21-22 years ago :laugh:

MSU4life
03-31-2011, 09:19 PM
whats so ridiculous about it ? name me 5 teams in the last 20 years that have won ships with theyre pg's being the best player on theyre team. :confused:

just answer the question dude. your a vet poster, you have 10 000 posts and your ridiculing a guy who has500 posts and he is clearly not baiting or trying to make a ******** thread.

Billups-2004 pistons
Parker-2007 spurs
Inn the last 7 and indent feel like going and researching but i guarantee there are more than 5

Chi City23
03-31-2011, 09:24 PM
Now in 5 years when Kobe and Wade are way past their primes name me another SG that you think can lead their teams to a championship.. I'll even make it easier for you, name me a SG in 5 years you would even say COULD and has the potential to be considered top 5?? The league has changed and its a PG dominated league right now so get with the times lol

OaklandsFinest
03-31-2011, 09:27 PM
in the last 20 years the Bulls have 6 tittles (Jordan) Houston has 2 (Olajuwon) Lakers have 5 (Shaq and Kobe) Miami has 1( Wade and Shaq) Detroit has 1 (team) Spurs have 4 (Duncan and Parker) Boston has 1 (Big 3). So if Jordan is the best ever, and Tim Duncan is the best PF ever, and Shaq and Olajuwan are the most dominant Centers since Jabar, and Boston is the best accumulation of stars and coaching that team. So that leaves 1 ring that has been one by a team that didn't have "one of the greatest to ever do it" on their team and that was by Detroit. Though you could argue Rasheed was the most talented Piston, Chauncey was the leader, and the go to guy when they needed a big shot. I just don't see a point to this argument..

sanityinvanity
03-31-2011, 09:28 PM
No Point Guards should be in top 5 list of NBA players. Because Top Point Guards that are the lead players for their team never win championships. Top Wing Players and Big Men win most of the titles in NBA. In Past 20 years no superstar PG lead team has won a title. PG position is important but you don't need a star at pg to win titles at all. So why put a star PG in top 5 when history tells us that they don't win titles in this league at all. Top 5 should be all wing players and big men, those are the championship contenders. Superstar PG's actually hurt chances of winning titles, especially the score first PG's

lol wut??:facepalm:

NJBASEBALL22
03-31-2011, 09:33 PM
The fact of the matter is, that the center (or big men) is the only position that is constantly found leading championship teams. Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Walton, Jabbar, Russell, Wilt, Moses Malone, Willis Reed.

Prior to MJ, no shooting guard as far back as Jerry West led there team to a title. Then Kobe and Wade each did it. It can be argued that Wade was a point guard early in his career though- when he won the championship. Before Pierce, Larry Bird was the last SF to lead their team and before him it was Dr. J and Hondo. Prior to Duncan, no power forward really ever led there team... I'm trying to think here... yeah no one. PG, Isiah and Magic are two that immediately stick out, then Clyde, Cousy, and Gus Johnson.

I think this was a stupid observation by the OP. The fact is, the team with the best couple of players with no specific position will compete for a title. That team needs chemistry. But to say star PG's hurt your team, that is absurd. Look at guys like Nash, Kidd, Stockton, Rondo, Gary Payton, Tony Parker, Billups. They all led there team to the finals (or deep into the playoffs) as one of the top few players on the team. Hell, Iverson carried a 6ers team to the finals that probably shouldn't have been in the playoffs. Iverson I consider a PG because he did most of the handling of the ball and would regularly lead his team in dimes. He just shot more than we were used to seeing in a PG because nobody as could really shoot and he got to the rim so easily- is that his fault? He defended PGs as well.

hawks4
03-31-2011, 09:37 PM
No Point Guards should be in top 5 list of NBA players. Because Top Point Guards that are the lead players for their team never win championships. Top Wing Players and Big Men win most of the titles in NBA. In Past 20 years no superstar PG lead team has won a title. PG position is important but you don't need a star at pg to win titles at all. So why put a star PG in top 5 when history tells us that they don't win titles in this league at all. Top 5 should be all wing players and big men, those are the championship contenders. Superstar PG's actually hurt chances of winning titles, especially the score first PG's

I'm assuming you posted this only to see how pissed off you can make everyone.

Hawkeye15
03-31-2011, 09:39 PM
Billups-2004 pistons
Parker-2007 spurs
Inn the last 7 and indent feel like going and researching but i guarantee there are more than 5

I will give you Billups, but no way in hell TP was better than Duncan that year. I don't care if he won finals MVP.

Yes, you can go back to the Laker days, where Magic was their best player, and then there is Zeke, but I had to respond to this, sorry.

stejay
03-31-2011, 09:41 PM
I will give you Billups, but no way in hell TP was better than Duncan that year. I don't care if he won finals MVP.

Yes, you can go back to the Laker days, where Magic was their best player, and then there is Zeke, but I had to respond to this, sorry.

Ill say Duncan was the best on the other Championships, but Parker was the best in 07

The BodyGuard
03-31-2011, 09:42 PM
No Point Guards should be in top 5 list of NBA players. Because Top Point Guards that are the lead players for their team never win championships. Top Wing Players and Big Men win most of the titles in NBA. In Past 20 years no superstar PG lead team has won a title. PG position is important but you don't need a star at pg to win titles at all. So why put a star PG in top 5 when history tells us that they don't win titles in this league at all. Top 5 should be all wing players and big men, those are the championship contenders. Superstar PG's actually hurt chances of winning titles, especially the score first PG's

Hmmm, D.Rose, M.Johnson ect says high

Sixerlover
03-31-2011, 09:44 PM
Lame thread trying to take a subtle shot at Rose. We see right through the BS. Come one now. The last 20 years had Jordan in the league for 6 of them, then Hakeem Won 2, Shaq got 3 as the #1 choice, Duncan got 4 then Kobe got 2 and D-Wade got 1. That right there is 16 of the 20 titles tied up into 2 guards or Big Men.

So Rose, Paul, LeBron, Durant all aren't top 5 players because they aren't big men or 2 guards.

meloman1592
03-31-2011, 09:46 PM
@ the person who made this thread.......STFU!!!!!!!!

Hawkeye15
03-31-2011, 09:46 PM
Ill say Duncan was the best on the other Championships, but Parker was the best in 07

and measuring a players worth in a 7 game series, versus the 100 game season, doesn't paint the correct picture is my point.

Duncan was their best player that year. I don't care if TP had a great finals

gcoll
03-31-2011, 10:00 PM
Judging an individual player's merit based on a team achievement (a title) is one of the stupidest ideas that permeate sports.

Swashcuff
03-31-2011, 10:05 PM
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Chi City23
03-31-2011, 10:12 PM
and measuring a players worth in a 7 game series, versus the 100 game season, doesn't paint the correct picture is my point.

Duncan was their best player that year. I don't care if TP had a great finals

I agree with you, but the OP stated that score first PGs cant win you a title. Duncan was biggest reason they made it to the Finals, but Parker was the better player in the Finals to win the championship.

DubbyDubbs
03-31-2011, 10:16 PM
1st off, name all the teams in the league in which a PG even leads that team in points. I would bet that about 10% of teams have that. So to say that out of 10%, they dont win the championship let alone make the playoffs is really stacking the odds against them. Anyways i guess what i am saying is that the reason more championships are not won by a team with a PG leading that team in scoring is because it is not common in the league for a PG to lead a team in PPG in the first place.

Hawkeye15
03-31-2011, 10:16 PM
I agree with you, but the OP stated that score first PGs cant win you a title. Duncan was biggest reason they made it to the Finals, but Parker was the better player in the Finals to win the championship.

I honestly have no clue why Bulls fans get so worked up about yet another person saying shoot first PG's can't win titles. First off, this is an absolute statement, which continue to be proven wrong, and secondly, there is already historical evidence pointing otherwise.

Of course a team can win with its best player a PG, or a shoot first player. Its already been proven.

Geargo Wallace
03-31-2011, 10:18 PM
Never been a fan of PG's but especially in today's NBA. I feel like every team in the league has a "star" PG or an "up-and-coming star" PG.

PhillyFaninLA
03-31-2011, 10:29 PM
1 finals in '77, but 0 Championships. Furthering the point....

I still cant get over the OP


Actually they won the 1983 title...with him...nice that you show actual facts to back your opinion. I mean you really should make sure your facts are correct (especially when answering a rhetorical question) an saying something conceded like Furthing the point....actual correct facts would further you point.

ilovemyangel
03-31-2011, 10:45 PM
magic johnson? isiah thomas?

BcEuAbRsS
03-31-2011, 10:47 PM
Twice in NBA history has a pg lead his team in scoring and won titles...magic and isaiah each did it once...soooooo, yeah...odds stacked against rose

In the history of the NBA a man named Lebron James has never won a championship... looks like the odds are evenly stacked :rolleyes:

theheatles
03-31-2011, 11:06 PM
can and good idea arent the same thing.again your ignoring his team and what he went against,your telling me neither have any impact on events at all? that if it was changed(say no kareem)or they went up against mj's bulls.it would have gone the exact same way just because type of player he was?

on the subject of lebron,hasnt won a ring,before celtics won in 08 no sf had lead a team to a ring since bird.so unless your the celtics ,you shouldnt have a team led by a sf? cuz thats certain to never win a ring by using your own line of logic.man being a fan of team led by a sf,i guess your screwed huh :rolleyes:

lebron isn't just a small forward though...lebron is a pg sg sf and pf...he does it all...besides...there are still more sf who have led their team in scoring and won championships than pg's anyways..and we have wade too. sooo heat r in much better shape than the bulls ...the nba is a big mans league, it always has been and thats y pg is and never been the most important position in the NBA, bigger players always have and always will rule..the only team that didn't have all star big men was the bulls dynasty and if u think rose compares to mj then ur in for a rude awakening...if u think pg is the most important then u only have knowledge from high school and college basketball theories on the game

theheatles
03-31-2011, 11:08 PM
In the history of the NBA a man named Lebron James has never won a championship... looks like the odds are evenly stacked :rolleyes:

Lebron been to a finals...and odds are in better favor for lebron...vegas says so

Chi City23
03-31-2011, 11:11 PM
I honestly have no clue why Bulls fans get so worked up about yet another person saying shoot first PG's can't win titles. First off, this is an absolute statement, which continue to be proven wrong, and secondly, there is already historical evidence pointing otherwise.

Of course a team can win with its best player a PG, or a shoot first player. Its already been proven.

Not really sure where you were going with this post.. what did I say to offend you and how did I get 'so worked up'?? I was simply telling you why some other posters saw parker as the better player than Duncan during that 2007 title run where you disagreed with them. What does me being a Bulls fan have to do with anything??

theheatles
03-31-2011, 11:16 PM
I thought this thread was about how there are no PGs out there today that are good enough to be considered Top 5 in the NBA???? Which I agree with to an extent, Chris Paul is Top 5 in the NBA when he is healthy.

Lebron
Kobe
Wade
Durant
Howard

Anyway, going with the thread's other point. Tony Parker and Chauncey Billups are the stars of their team with they won the championship. Both were Final's MVPs. And even Tony Parker averaged the most points on his team.

Jason Kidd- lead his team to back-to-back final appearances. That deserves some type of credit as well.

nope, tim duncan led his team in scoring

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2007.html

only magic and isaiah led their team in scoring and won the title...each did it just once

AIRMAR72
03-31-2011, 11:17 PM
Ervin and Zeke were pass first penetrating PG but took shots base on how the defense is playing Iverson and Rose go out on court with the intention of scoring.. to win rings you NEED a reliable post player and penertrating PG with vision and IQ

LOOTERX9
04-01-2011, 03:35 AM
I agree with you, but the OP stated that score first PGs cant win you a title. Duncan was biggest reason they made it to the Finals, but Parker was the better player in the Finals to win the championship.

TONY PARKER? Really? Man you are searching, aren't you?

LOOTERX9
04-01-2011, 03:59 AM
Every lottery team wanted John Wall. But can yall honestly see Wall ever leading his team to a NBA championship? REALLY?

Ticket Guy IL
04-01-2011, 05:51 AM
You are foolish. Look up your stuff.

2000's
Dwayne Wade
Tony Parker

1990's
Isaiah Thomas

1980's
Magic Johnson
Isaiah Thomas


2010's
Derek Rose
Dwayne Wade

-Kobe24-TJ19-
04-01-2011, 07:18 AM
:lockthread:

effen5
04-01-2011, 07:56 AM
Ops logic is extremely flawed...PG's today are more offensively gifted then they were in the 80s and 90s which means times have changed buddy. As much as I love Stockton, GP, and all them, they would not be able to carry an offense like this modern era of point guards can (Deron, CP3, Rose, Westbrook). So in the future, we could easily see a team winning a championship with a PG leading them the way.

stejay
04-01-2011, 09:00 AM
Actually they won the 1983 title...with him...nice that you show actual facts to back your opinion. I mean you really should make sure your facts are correct (especially when answering a rhetorical question) an saying something conceded like Furthing the point....actual correct facts would further you point.


You asked how many they won without him.........

So I answered. 0

stejay
04-01-2011, 09:01 AM
TONY PARKER? Really? Man you are searching, aren't you?

Well, his Finals MVP shows you are indeed wrong.

stejay
04-01-2011, 09:02 AM
Every lottery team wanted John Wall. But can yall honestly see Wall ever leading his team to a NBA championship? REALLY?

Thats becuase he plays for the Wizards, not because of Wall.....

stejay
04-01-2011, 09:03 AM
You are foolish. Look up your stuff.

2000's
Dwayne Wade
Tony Parker

1990's
Isaiah Thomas

1980's
Magic Johnson
Isaiah Thomas


2010's
Derek Rose
Dwayne Wade

:facepalm::facepalm:

Wade is a SG, and Rose hasnt won a Championship.

Team*Chicago
04-01-2011, 09:06 AM
Just face it Derrick is highly more likely to win MVP and when he wins it just flush your selvse down the toilet. Dominate PGs won championships before look at Magic Johnson with the Lakers, Isiah Thomas with the Pistons and Tony Parker with the Spurs. Don't be suprise if Derrick wins one with the Bulls because he's gotton better than Chris Paul and Deron Williams.



No Point Guards should be in top 5 list of NBA players. Because Top Point Guards that are the lead players for their team never win championships. Top Wing Players and Big Men win most of the titles in NBA. In Past 20 years no superstar PG led team has won a title. PG position is important but you don't need a star at pg to win titles at all. So why put a star PG in top 5 when history tells us that they don't win titles in this league at all. Top 5 should be all wing players and big men, those are the championship contenders. Superstar PG's actually hurt chances of winning titles, especially the score first PG's. So why waste a spot in top 5 list putting a PG in?

:facepalm: Another Derrick Rose hated thread.

benzni
04-01-2011, 09:11 AM
Lebron James has not won a championship yet. Does that mean he is not a top 5 player?? :facepalm:

Swashcuff
04-01-2011, 09:22 AM
Every lottery team wanted John Wall. But can yall honestly see Wall ever leading his team to a NBA championship? REALLY?

Every team wanted LeBron James.

Why cant you admit that that reasoning should also hold true for a SF as well.

You have no case your point is FLAWED!!!

TO to the CHI
04-01-2011, 09:31 AM
Billups-2004 pistons
Parker-2007 spurs
Inn the last 7 and indent feel like going and researching but i guarantee there are more than 5

Can we also all acknowledge that Wade was a combo guard who led his team in scoring and in assists in 2006 in winning the title.

Swashcuff
04-01-2011, 09:35 AM
Can we also all acknowledge that Wade was a combo guard who led his team in scoring and in assists in 2006 in winning the title.

No. Wade never matched up against the opposing team's PG. He is and was a SG.

nekosquare
04-01-2011, 09:39 AM
I think the point is PGs, bigs, or wings in any era need help. Nobody can win it alone. It's silly to say a pg couldn't be the best player on his team and win it all. It depends on what he has around him.

Championships are most often won by great teams led by a great player and these days several great players. The league is top heavy. LBJ's career has shown us even the best can't do it alone.

Put a great team together, with a smart coach, and I submit it doesn't matter which position the best player is... they can win.

TO to the CHI
04-01-2011, 09:44 AM
No. Wade never matched up against the opposing team's PG. He is and was a SG.

The premise of the thread was about PGs not being able to lead a team if they are score first. Wade was his team's effective PG in 2006. He was the primary ball handler and led the team in assists. He was matched up against the other team's best defender, not necessarily against the other team's SG.

AB1984
04-01-2011, 10:00 AM
No Point Guards should be in top 5 list of NBA players. Because Top Point Guards that are the lead players for their team never win championships. Top Wing Players and Big Men win most of the titles in NBA. In Past 20 years no superstar PG led team has won a title. PG position is important but you don't need a star at pg to win titles at all. So why put a star PG in top 5 when history tells us that they don't win titles in this league at all. Top 5 should be all wing players and big men, those are the championship contenders. Superstar PG's actually hurt chances of winning titles, especially the score first PG's. So why waste a spot in top 5 list putting a PG in?

So I should notify Thibebeau that the Bulls would be better off with CJ Watson at PG since the worse your PG is the better your chance of winning a title.

Pierzynski4Prez
04-01-2011, 10:14 AM
The stupidity in this thread is outrageous. What is it, 7 teams have won the title the last 20 years. So that means automatically the other 23 have 0 chance. So using the same logic as the OP and a few other followers, the Magic, Thunder, Mavs should just give up now. Why bother? History says so, and what happened the last 20 years clearly has an impact in what will happen this year.

BIG worm
04-01-2011, 10:19 AM
Hey op, u could of just wrote fk rose he sucks. Instead of that weak *** argument u tried to pose. We get it.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
04-01-2011, 03:08 PM
good point :confused: other

What are you confused about? I laughed @ a thread I found funny...:confused:

jezzyman05
04-01-2011, 03:34 PM
Ha ha! those are not superstars that are the lead guys on their teams.

not all teams have superstars dude, tim duncan is a star but never a superstar

Chrisstyles
04-01-2011, 03:44 PM
wow! remember Gus Williams winning it all with the sonics elevating his game in the playoffs. enough said

LOOTERX9
04-01-2011, 05:53 PM
So I should notify Thibebeau that the Bulls would be better off with CJ Watson at PG since the worse your PG is the better your chance of winning a title.

YES, and move Rose to shooting guard. They are not winning a title with Rose being the primary handler and scrorer. NBA does not work like that

LOOTERX9
04-01-2011, 05:57 PM
not all teams have superstars dude, tim duncan is a star but never a superstar

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tell me you did not just say THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:speechless:

Swashcuff
04-01-2011, 06:03 PM
The OP is still afraid to admit how foolish he reasoning is since only one SF in the last 20+ years has lead a championship team in scoring.

Waste of a thread if you ask me.

FuriousJatt
04-01-2011, 06:13 PM
you, sir, are ridiculous.

UR sig looks pretty sick. but i heard that movie sucked.

btw: close this thread.

Yankees Suck
04-01-2011, 06:21 PM
No PG in the top 5? WTF:speechless::facepalm::down::crazy::no::pity:

LOOTERX9
04-01-2011, 06:28 PM
No PG in the top 5? WTF:speechless::facepalm::down::crazy::no::pity:

Nope, cause they don't win titles. Why waste a spot in top 5 when ya know CP3, DWILL, NASH, WALL, OR ROSE WILL NOT and CANNOT lead their team to a title in this league. It Has not happened since the 80's

stejay
04-01-2011, 06:33 PM
not all teams have superstars dude, tim duncan is a star but never a superstar

Umm, yea... No. Severely wrong. One of the top 10 of all time. And that aint a superstar? WHAT Is in your book then?


Nope, cause they don't win titles. Why waste a spot in top 5 when ya know CP3, DWILL, NASH, WALL, OR ROSE WILL NOT and CANNOT lead their team to a title in this league. It Has not happened since the 80's

Be quiet. You are wrong. Just accept it.

Swashcuff
04-01-2011, 06:41 PM
Nope, cause they don't win titles. Why waste a spot in top 5 when ya know CP3, DWILL, NASH, WALL, OR ROSE WILL NOT and CANNOT lead their team to a title in this league. It Has not happened since the 80's

Neither do SFs so STFU!!!!!

You have no basis or reasoning.

LOOTERX9
04-01-2011, 06:49 PM
Umm, yea... No. Severely wrong. One of the top 10 of all time. And that aint a superstar? WHAT Is in your book then?



Be quiet. You are wrong. Just accept it.

I have not been proven wrong here at all. People say thar Billups and Parker led their team which is a joke!!! They know what I mean when I say star franchise PG. (cp3, rose, nash, Dwill, marbury, frances, Iverson,Kidd,etc) Those pg's were the leaders and #1 go to guys on the team for the whole season, and not just the finals like T.parker and Billups.

sep11ie
04-01-2011, 06:53 PM
C.s.b.

LOOTERX9
04-01-2011, 06:57 PM
Neither do SFs so STFU!!!!!

You have no basis or reasoning.

Guys like KOBE, MELO, LEBRON , DURANT, JORDAN, (wing player)are all a mix of Shooting guards and small fowards. Small fowards cause they all have post up moves, Shooting guards cause they all can hit the 3 and play the perimiter game. And they are all wing players like I said. They will win titles before a star pg will.

LOOTERX9
04-01-2011, 07:02 PM
Every team wanted LeBron James.

Why cant you admit that that reasoning should also hold true for a SF as well.

You have no case your point is FLAWED!!!

Cause small fowards in todays NBA are really 2 guards combined if that is what you are trying to use. They are a combo and during games play both positions in reality. Kobe is a 2 guard that plays small foward half the game. He posts you up down low like a traditional small foward would. Small fowards and 2 guards are both wing players in todays NBA. They shoot the 3 and post you up. So you just got OWNED!

LOOTERX9
04-01-2011, 07:07 PM
Problem with the PG's in today's game is that they are only bout 6' - 6'3" and think they are Jordan. They are too short to be trying to act like MJ. Especially the PG'S in the early 2000's (marbury, iverson, frances.etc)

sargon21
04-01-2011, 07:08 PM
After the playoffs this year, Rose will be on people's Top 5 lists. Consider that another sargon prediction.

stejay
04-01-2011, 07:12 PM
Cause small fowards in todays NBA are really 2 guards combined if that is what you are trying to use. They are a combo and during games play both positions in reality. Kobe is a 2 guard that plays small foward half the game. He posts you up down low like a traditional small foward would. Small fowards and 2 guards are both wing players in todays NBA. They shoot the 3 and post you up. So you just got OWNED!

Yet, the PG/SG mix is the one you hate so much...

OWNED

stejay
04-01-2011, 07:14 PM
I have not been proven wrong here at all. People say thar Billups and Parker led their team which is a joke!!! They know what I mean when I say star franchise PG. (cp3, rose, nash, Dwill, marbury, frances, Iverson,Kidd,etc) Those pg's were the leaders and #1 go to guys on the team for the whole season, and not just the finals like T.parker and Billups.

You have been proved wrong because not one team on Earth relies on one guy. Not one. If you name one team which was a 1 man team and won a championship, I will leave the forum. Simple

Shammyguy3
04-01-2011, 07:15 PM
LOOTERX9, how much paste have you eaten in your life?

Swashcuff
04-01-2011, 07:18 PM
Cause small fowards in todays NBA are really 2 guards combined if that is what you are trying to use. They are a combo and during games play both positions in reality. Kobe is a 2 guard that plays small foward half the game. He posts you up down low like a traditional small foward would. Small fowards and 2 guards are both wing players in todays NBA. They shoot the 3 and post you up. So you just got OWNED!

Dudde WTF are you talking about?

You at aint squat you just made a bigger fool of yourself by speaking more RUBBISH!!!!

stejay
04-01-2011, 07:21 PM
He is either an idiot troll, or the least knowledgeable basketball fan I have ever encountered. I can't decide which one.

Chicagofaithful
04-01-2011, 07:25 PM
No Point Guards should be in top 5 list of NBA players. Because Top Point Guards that are the lead players for their team never win championships. Top Wing Players and Big Men win most of the titles in NBA. In Past 20 years no superstar PG led team has won a title. PG position is important but you don't need a star at pg to win titles at all. So why put a star PG in top 5 when history tells us that they don't win titles in this league at all. Top 5 should be all wing players and big men, those are the championship contenders. Superstar PG's actually hurt chances of winning titles, especially the score first PG's. So why waste a spot in top 5 list putting a PG in?

you're right I guess tony parker should give back his finals mvp trophy

Swashcuff
04-01-2011, 07:49 PM
Guys like KOBE, MELO, LEBRON , DURANT, JORDAN, (wing player)are all a mix of Shooting guards and small fowards. Small fowards cause they all have post up moves, Shooting guards cause they all can hit the 3 and play the perimiter game. And they are all wing players like I said. They will win titles before a star pg will.

You CLEARLY have NO IDEA what the hell you are talking about.

You just keep making yourself sound even more foolish with every single post you make.

smith&wesson
04-01-2011, 07:51 PM
not all teams have superstars dude, tim duncan is a star but never a superstar

I dont get it, your a spurs fan who thinks tim duncan wasnt a super star ?

im not a big spurs fan, but i disagree, i think duncan was def a superstar. best power forward in the game !! dont you think so too ?

Chi City23
04-01-2011, 07:52 PM
Cause small fowards in todays NBA are really 2 guards combined if that is what you are trying to use. They are a combo and during games play both positions in reality. Kobe is a 2 guard that plays small foward half the game. He posts you up down low like a traditional small foward would. Small fowards and 2 guards are both wing players in todays NBA. They shoot the 3 and post you up. So you just got OWNED!

Lebron has a post up game?? Thats news to me :rolleyes:

smith&wesson
04-01-2011, 07:53 PM
Billups-2004 pistons
Parker-2007 spurs
Inn the last 7 and indent feel like going and researching but i guarantee there are more than 5

Dude, you named the same players i named ... im asking for more cuz i cant think of anyone else. ..

AI4MVP
04-01-2011, 07:53 PM
You can get on your knees with Magic Johnson,Isiah Thomas,Bob Cousy,and Walt Fraizer all jerk off onto your face

LOOTERX9
04-01-2011, 11:46 PM
Yet, the PG/SG mix is the one you hate so much...

OWNED

PG/SG combo's? Those are the worst kind of player combos. PG's should not be playing like SG's. That's why no PG/SG COMBO Player has led their team to a title in 20 years.

Swashcuff
04-01-2011, 11:56 PM
PG/SG combo's? Those are the worst kind of player combos. PG's should not be playing like SG's. That's why no PG/SG COMBO Player has led their team to a title in 20 years.

Dwyane Wade says hi!

LOOTERX9
04-02-2011, 12:09 AM
Dwyane Wade says hi!

Haha! D wade is a SG. Jason Williams was the PG when they won that title. And Shaq was the Big Man on the inside. The PG's that are coming in the NBA are not going to beat the teams with the top wing players for a title. Hey man I give you credit ,You are trying your best on this topic but you continue to FAIL.

Swashcuff
04-02-2011, 12:40 AM
Haha! D wade is a SG. Jason Williams was the PG when they won that title. And Shaq was the Big Man on the inside. The PG's that are coming in the NBA are not going to beat the teams with the top wing players for a title. Hey man I give you credit ,You are trying your best on this topic but you continue to FAIL.

Dwyane was also the primary ball handler and facilitator (two of the most important things a PG does) and played combo (PG/SG) guard for them in the playoffs and all season long.

Your basis is FLAWED.

I am not trying my best I am proving you to be a bigger loser with each and every post. You post nothing but rubbish and think its making sense. I almost feel sorry for you.

stejay
04-02-2011, 07:40 AM
Dwyane was also the primary ball handler and facilitator (two of the most important things a PG does) and played combo (PG/SG) guard for them in the playoffs and all season long.

Your basis is FLAWED.

I am not trying my best I am proving you to be a bigger loser with each and every post. You post nothing but rubbish and think its making sense. I almost feel sorry for you.

This

Sixerlover
04-02-2011, 12:00 PM
Haha! D wade is a SG. Jason Williams was the PG when they won that title.

Now you just named the backcourt of the '06 CHAMPION Heat. Who do you really think handled the ball the majority of the time on that TITLE team? Jason Williams?? Don't make me laugh

mlisica19
04-02-2011, 12:47 PM
Chaucney, Parker are laughing at you.

Yet you bring up an interesting point. Your right, no guard was able to be GREAT enough to do it by himself.
1) This does not mean they are not elite players, it just means they didnt have enough support.
2) Nobody does it by themself.

Where would any of the championship teams be without a smart hardworking guard. Lakers without Fisher would have prob won much less rings
Spurs without Parker prob would have never have made it to their last finals appearance

It just seems that teams that go for elite guards have a hard time finding support to make it to the finals and winning it all.

Boston drafted a skilled guard who turned out to be a true elite player... Hes in and out of the top 5 a def top 15 in anyones mind. But would he have the team success he has had without the other 3? Without a smart defensive coach?

Its a team effort when winning championships and most people become blinded when seeing so much skill, they forget to see what it takes to actually win.

Watch out for Rose 2nite...