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rapjuicer06
03-29-2011, 03:57 PM
I like D12 for MVP :shrug:

finally! :clap:

bringinwood
03-29-2011, 04:51 PM
I can sum up this thread in two statements...

Bulls homer = LaBatard is an idiot and hates the bulls so that means that Rose, regardless of how he may not deserve it, should win without so much as a vote.


Any other basketball fan = Wow, someone from the national media has finally stepped up and told it as it is... Rose's stats are eerily similiar to Russell Westbrook's and he is a very inefficient scorer... Why is he in the consideration for MVP ???

bringinwood
03-29-2011, 04:55 PM
Oh I read that one back in July of 2010 when it came out but I guess you don't keep up with the times lol.. I'll take Rose's word over 'sources' any day.

That doesn't spell HOMER... lmao

I like the part that says, it's selfish of Rose to field a less talented roster so you can keep yourself more valuable to the team...

SteveNash
03-29-2011, 04:56 PM
Oh I read that one back in July of 2010 when it came out but I guess you don't keep up with the times lol.. I'll take Rose's word over 'sources' any day.

Rose's words are empty.

And weren't Bulls fans defending Rose's alleged comments?

heatking
03-29-2011, 04:57 PM
rose isnt top 5 in my voting...TO prone sg in a pg body.

bringinwood
03-29-2011, 05:04 PM
rose isnt top 5 in my voting...TO prone sg in a pg body.

I'd give him 3rd in the voting behind LBJ and D12...

Sync
03-29-2011, 05:10 PM
Westbrook isn't equal to Rose, he's better.

I second this.

PurpleJesus28
03-29-2011, 05:17 PM
rose isnt top 5 in my voting...TO prone sg in a pg body.

averaging same amount of TO's as LeBaby this year and has lower career avg. not even gonna go into the rest of your comment.

the hate on Rose is astounding.

wouldnt have a problem with D12 getting it IF he had his team higher in seeding than the Bulls. can't support LeQuit for MVP considering its arguable if he's even the most important player on his own team and two other players just went off for 30-10

MiamiWadeCounty
03-29-2011, 05:19 PM
Rose deserves MVP (unless the Bulls somehow falter to the 3rd seed, very unlikely, but if it somehow happened I'd shift my vote to Dwight or LBJ)

- Signed a HEAT Fan

bringinwood
03-29-2011, 05:21 PM
averaging same amount of TO's as LeBaby this year and has lower career avg. not even gonna go into the rest of your comment.

the hate on Rose is astounding.


It's because he's very overrated... Secondly, the Bulls homers make it very very easy to continue to hate on him... Maybe even more so than the Kobe faithfuls...

heatking
03-29-2011, 05:21 PM
rose is an over hyped AI.

Illinirob83
03-29-2011, 05:21 PM
Who cares? Rose is every bit the MVP this year as about anyone else. If he doesn't score on his team, who does? Of course he takes the most shots, because he is the only one who can create his own offense on the entire team. He has a ton of responsibility, and is guarded differently then about every other player/pg in the NBA. Westbrook isn't schemed against like Rose, not at all. But again, who cares? Rose is having an elite season, there is no question. He has become a very solid defensive player, has expanded his range, has been able to get to the ft line a lot better, and carries his team offensively on a nightly basis, BECAUSE HE HAS TO. If you don't think he is the MVP and someone else should get it fine, but to trash rose in the process is ridiculous. I do not understand this vitriol towards this guy. Hollinger has ruined basketball common sense.

Illinirob83
03-29-2011, 05:22 PM
rose is an over hyped AI.

AI was an overhyped AI.

heatking
03-29-2011, 05:22 PM
Edit that... rose doesnt sniff AI toes.

heatking
03-29-2011, 05:24 PM
the guy is getting 24 and 7... wade was getting this on his down years, yet he was never an mvp candidate.

NJrockPD
03-29-2011, 05:24 PM
Wilbon is an idiot and Rose and Westbrook are similar players. If OKC didn't have Durant then Westbrook would do the same amount of scoring the Rose does.

I bet the Bulls would trade KD for Deng if you think Durant is holding him back. Maybe the Thunder would have the best record in the East if their MVP (Westbrook) was leading the team? Or maybe the focus is on Durant, which inflates his stats? Either way talk to the Thunder FO and we'll take durant off your hands.

Illinirob83
03-29-2011, 05:25 PM
Edit that... rose doesnt sniff AI toes.

yeah, cause i'm sure they wouldn't smell good. I wouldn't want to sniff them either.

Illinirob83
03-29-2011, 05:26 PM
the guy is getting 24 and 7... wade was getting this on his down years, yet he was never an mvp candidate.

Wade was averaging 25 and 8? When? Has he ever gotten 25 8 and 4? Wade didn't win jack until he got shaq, and now begged Lebron, pathetic. Wade doesn't hold Rose's jock as a competitor. 3-0 sweep.

heatking
03-29-2011, 05:29 PM
bulls fans bragging about the regular season... i guess this is what being irrelevant for a decade does to you.

Illinirob83
03-29-2011, 05:30 PM
bulls fans bragging about the regular season... i guess this is what being irrelevant for a decade does to you.

Ok, 6 vs. 1. Either way, I win.

heatking
03-29-2011, 05:32 PM
Wade was averaging 25 and 8? When? Has he ever gotten 25 8 and 4? Wade didn't win jack until he got shaq, and now begged Lebron, pathetic. Wade doesn't hold Rose's jock as a competitor. 3-0 sweep.

07-08 worst season of his career was averaging what ur "MVP" is averaging.

heatking
03-29-2011, 05:34 PM
AI was an overhyped AI.

lmao way to edit ur post.... who r u scared of? the mods might ban u and ruin ur life? LMAO.

Illinirob83
03-29-2011, 05:35 PM
07-08 worst season of his career was averaging what ur "MVP" is averaging.

Maybe it was his worst season because he played a grand total of 51 games. Get a clue.

Illinirob83
03-29-2011, 05:35 PM
lmao way to edit ur post.... who r u scared of? the mods might ban u and ruin ur life? LMAO.

no

MiamiWadeCounty
03-29-2011, 05:35 PM
Wade was averaging 25 and 8? When? Has he ever gotten 25 8 and 4? Wade didn't win jack until he got shaq, and now begged Lebron, pathetic. Wade doesn't hold Rose's jock as a competitor. 3-0 sweep.

I agree Rose is MVP, but you make it like Wade's accomplishment in winning a title was diminished because he played with Shaq. Everybody who wins a title has good-to-great teammates. If the Bulls win it all this year, Rose will be the major reason why, however Boozer, Deng, Noah, and such make a very very good supporting cast.

shizzle09
03-29-2011, 05:36 PM
I would love to see Westbrook try to run a team by himself getting trapped and doubled all game long off the pick & roll, sometimes he gets doubled before the ball crosses midcourt ive seen a lot of Thunder games the other team is way more worried about kevin durant than him. Westbrook gets to play one on one Drose doesn't and rose STILL is putting up better numbers than Westbrook. I would love to see westbrook be the man on a team...He would FAIL!

better numbers? ppg is all that matter to you? everything else Westbrook has better stats. Love your homerism blocking your ability to rate other players accurately. :facepalm:

heatking
03-29-2011, 05:38 PM
Maybe it was his worst season because he played a grand total of 51 games. Get a clue.

So wade in his worst year was still better tha ur savior... lmao thats sad.

Illinirob83
03-29-2011, 05:39 PM
I agree Rose is MVP, but you make it like Wade's accomplishment in winning a title was diminished because he played with Shaq. Everybody who wins a title has good-to-great teammates. If the Bulls win it all this year, Rose will be the major reason why, however Boozer, Deng, Noah, and such make a very very good supporting cast.

Nah, Boozer pretty much is a liability. Wade didn't win anything until he got still a very good version of Shaq, and then was mediocre again while putting up hollow numbers. Then he begs Lebron to join him, and still doesn't have the top seed in the East. Wade is great, but he isn't the standard IMO.

Illinirob83
03-29-2011, 05:40 PM
So wade in his worst year was still better tha ur savior... lmao thats sad.

But it wasn't. Again, get a clue. Horrible arguments. 51 games played. Plus Dwade is a two, not a PG. Different responsibilities, nice try though.

rapjuicer06
03-29-2011, 05:42 PM
wade and rose play the exact same game. nice try though. wade always used to have the ball in his hands, just like lebron, just like rose. nice try though

heatking
03-29-2011, 05:43 PM
But it wasn't. Again, get a clue. Horrible arguments. 51 games played. Plus Dwade is a two, not a PG. Different responsibilities, nice try though.

ur right.... rose is a pg that cant get more than 7 apg and has more TO than dimes.

Illinirob83
03-29-2011, 05:43 PM
wade and rose play the exact same game. nice try though. wade always used to have the ball in his hands, just like lebron, just like rose. nice try though

Wrong, nice try though. They do not play the exact same game, lol. Do people actually watch basketball on here?

shizzle09
03-29-2011, 05:44 PM
Wade was averaging 25 and 8? When? Has he ever gotten 25 8 and 4? Wade didn't win jack until he got shaq, and now begged Lebron, pathetic. Wade doesn't hold Rose's jock as a competitor. 3-0 sweep.

Please put the crack pipe down. Wade cant hold Rose's jock?? Are you that much of a homer? i mean seriously. Wade is on a level Rose hope's he can one day get to. Wade's worst season minus his rookie season was better than Rose's season this year. Get over yourself kid

Illinirob83
03-29-2011, 05:45 PM
ur right.... rose is a pg that cant get more than 7 apg and has more TO than dimes.

He is averaging 8. Top 10 scoring, top 10 in ast. Not bad for a 22 year old carrying his team offensively every single night while holding the East's best record. Oh, and Keith Bogans and Kurt Thomas started over 30 games with Rose's unit this year, that might have affected some of his assist totals too.

shizzle09
03-29-2011, 05:47 PM
Wrong, nice try though. They do not play the exact same game, lol. Do people actually watch basketball on here?

You may watch some games but you need to take them blinders off thinking Rose is better than Wade. You need to understand what you are watching which you do not.

Illinirob83
03-29-2011, 05:47 PM
Please put the crack pipe down. Wade cant hold Rose's jock?? Are you that much of a homer? i mean seriously. Wade is on a level Rose hope's he can one day get to. Wade's worst season minus his rookie season was better than Rose's season this year. Get over yourself kid

I don't need a bunch of Heat fans telling me about homerism, enough of that. Rose is on that level now, or are you too much of a homer to see it? Oh that's right, you guys don't actually watch the basketball games. Wade couldn't put together a full season, get a clue son. Guy was banged up and missed 1/3 of the season nearly every year. Wade is great, but he isn't the standard. Woudn't trade Rose for Wade, and no GM would either, son.

Illinirob83
03-29-2011, 05:48 PM
You may watch some games but you need to take them blinders off thinking Rose is better than Wade. You need to understand what you are watching which you do not.

Never once said Rose was better than Wade, reading comprehension can be fun though.

shizzle09
03-29-2011, 05:55 PM
I don't need a bunch of Heat fans telling me about homerism, enough of that. Rose is on that level now, or are you too much of a homer to see it? Oh that's right, you guys don't actually watch the basketball games. Wade couldn't put together a full season, get a clue son. Guy was banged up and missed 1/3 of the season nearly every year. Wade is great, but he isn't the standard. Woudn't trade Rose for Wade, and no GM would either, son.

You are so cluless its hilarious. Even you own Bulls fans dont agree with you on this with the exception of a few homers. Keep thinking Rose is already top 3. As for Wade's injuries i think you need to check again kid. He missed 30 games to years in a row other than that he's played 70+. kids these days

heatking
03-29-2011, 05:55 PM
He is averaging 8. Top 10 scoring, top 10 in ast. Not bad for a 22 year old carrying his team offensively every single night while holding the East's best record. Oh, and Keith Bogans and Kurt Thomas started over 30 games with Rose's unit this year, that might have affected some of his assist totals too.

wades teammates were Marc blount and ricky davis...

shizzle09
03-29-2011, 05:57 PM
I don't need a bunch of Heat fans telling me about homerism, enough of that. Rose is on that level now, or are you too much of a homer to see it? Oh that's right, you guys don't actually watch the basketball games. Wade couldn't put together a full season, get a clue son. Guy was banged up and missed 1/3 of the season nearly every year. Wade is great, but he isn't the standard. Woudn't trade Rose for Wade, and no GM would either, son.

comical.

cubfan23
03-29-2011, 05:59 PM
lock articles like this? Wait so if there's articles that disagree with Rose being the almighty god the threads shouldnt be allowed? What does it matter? Rose is Rose and if your a fan who cares what people say.

I'm just saying seeing the same threads over and over again are annoying, yes I could choose to not read them but still. We all get the point people think Rose doesn't deserve MVP, ok fine by them, but I think he's been playing beastly and deserves it. Most Valuable to a team, it's him like everyone has said the injuries and having him carry this team when some of his best players were out was great. Wade and Lebron have each other, Dwight he's a monster so you could make a case for him, I just feel where the Bulls are at he deserves it, and I'm not trying to be a homer, and I don't think Rose is on Wade's level yet. I haven't seen much of Wade this year so maybe he is on Wade's level this year, but in previous years I don't think Rose can be on that level yet.

Illinirob83
03-29-2011, 06:00 PM
You are so cluless its hilarious. Even you own Bulls fans dont agree with you on this with the exception of a few homers. Keep thinking Rose is already top 3. As for Wade's injuries i think you need to check again kid. He missed 30 games to years in a row other than that he's played 70+. kids these days

I don't care where you think he ranks, it is irrelevant. No GM would trade Rose for Wade NOW. Not a single one. Yes, he missed time in an example given to me that was equal to Rose's current year, that is what you call absurd. Don't agree with me on what? That Rose is at Wade's level now? Well, he is. You might not want to hear it because of your homerism, but it is true. Also, would take Rose as a competitor over Wade every damn day of the week. And I would take Rose right now over Wade down the stretch of games. Right damn now, at him being 22.

Illinirob83
03-29-2011, 06:00 PM
wades teammates were Marc blount and ricky davis...

And Rose's were Keith Bogans/Kurt Thomas yet they still were killing . Wade's team, mediocre.

Illinirob83
03-29-2011, 06:01 PM
comical.

lol, no who has the homer glasses on? NOT ONE, son. Not a single one.

Jonathan2323
03-29-2011, 06:02 PM
Lets get this straight Rose will never be the player Wade is, was or will be.

shizzle09
03-29-2011, 06:03 PM
I'm just saying seeing the same threads over and over again are annoying, yes I could choose to not read them but still. We all get the point people think Rose doesn't deserve MVP, ok fine by them, but I think he's been playing beastly and deserves it. Most Valuable to a team, it's him like everyone has said the injuries and having him carry this team when some of his best players were out was great. Wade and Lebron have each other, Dwight he's a monster so you could make a case for him, I just feel where the Bulls are at he deserves it, and I'm not trying to be a homer, and I don't think Rose is on Wade's level yet. I haven't seen much of Wade this year so maybe he is on Wade's level this year, but in previous years I don't think Rose can be on that level yet.

I would agree that Rose is this years MVP. While he's not the best statistically his cirumstances with injuries to his teammates and being able to carry the team puts him at the top of the list. He has pretty much had to do it himself.

Illinirob83
03-29-2011, 06:03 PM
Lets get this striaght Rose will never be the player Wade is, was or will be.

He is right damn now.

ChI_ShIzzLe
03-29-2011, 06:04 PM
An administrator should just come out and say there won't be any more Derrick Rose related threads in the NBA forum. They all just turn into flame wars between Bulls fans and everyone else. This will keep the Bulls fans in their forums and the resident Rose haters away from here.

shizzle09
03-29-2011, 06:04 PM
lol, no who has the homer glasses on? NOT ONE, son. Not a single one.

You have homer contacts and homer glasses on. thats the dumbest remark a bulls fan has made to date.

Illinirob83
03-29-2011, 06:06 PM
You have homer contacts and homer glasses on. thats the dumbest remark a bulls fan has made to date.

First of all I used that because I know Rose has the edge with age. lol. No GM is gonna take Rose right now over Wade for one year, but for the future, of course Rose, due mostly to age more than ability.

But, let me ask you this in all seriousness. What does Wade do that Rose can't do? Right now. What is it?

ChI_ShIzzLe
03-29-2011, 06:06 PM
Lets get this straight Rose will never be the player Wade is, was or will be.

Can you also tell me how much money I'll be making in 10 years? OH OH and also can you tell me how my wife is gonna look?? I mean is she gonna have big titties, a big booty, pretty face??? C'mon I really really really wanna know!

shizzle09
03-29-2011, 06:08 PM
An administrator should just come out and say there won't be any more Derrick Rose related threads in the NBA forum. They all just turn into flame wars between Bulls fans and everyone else. This will keep the Bulls fans in their forums and the resident Rose haters away from here.

The anti Rose stuff has gotten alot more fierce in here lately. Any thing im posting about Rose in here is in rebuttal to the homer talking down on Wade. Not really hating on Rose himself as i think Rose is a beast.

knicks4life33
03-29-2011, 06:08 PM
rose hands down deserves the mvp and also the mip award as well. he is just playing like a beast this year.

h2r09
03-29-2011, 06:09 PM
And Rose's were Keith Bogans/Kurt Thomas yet they still were killing . Wade's team, mediocre.

those were 2 of wades best players. bogans isnt awful and doesnt play much anyway and kurt thomas is still a serviceable big man, not to mention that you just happen to be glossing over boozer, noah, deng, korver, and others.

h2r09
03-29-2011, 06:10 PM
Can you also tell me how much money I'll be making in 10 years? OH OH and also can you tell me how my wife is gonna look?? I mean is she gonna have big titties, a big booty, pretty face??? C'mon I really really really wanna know!

dont know about the other stuff, but as for your wife, i can pretty much assure that she will be no, no, and no, in regards to those questions.

ChI_ShIzzLe
03-29-2011, 06:11 PM
First of all I used that because I know Rose has the edge with age. lol.No GM is gonna take Rose right now over Wade for one year, but for the future, of course Rose, due mostly to age more than ability.

But, let me ask you this in all seriousness. What does Wade do that Rose can't do? Right now. What is it?

Dude, just make the Heat fans feel a little better and be a little more logical. There will be a lot of GMs that would trade Rose for Wade right now. Wade is still a great player in his prime. But in 3-4 years, when Rose enters his prime and Wade nears the end of his, thats when your statement becomes true and any GM who would do that trade would be a fool.

Illinirob83
03-29-2011, 06:11 PM
those were 2 of wades best players. bogans isnt awful and doesnt play much anyway and kurt thomas is still a serviceable big man, not to mention that you just happen to be glossing over boozer, noah, deng, korver, and others.

Bogans is pretty much awful. His eWA is atrocious and he gets wide open shots nearly every single time because defenses don't respect him in the least. Boozer has been injured or ineffective for awhile now. Noah is just now getting is hop back in his step after missing so much time. Boozer has been brutal defensively (no surprise there), and since Noah has been back hasn't been comfortable offensively. Also, he isn't hitting his jump-shot on the pick and pop nearly as well as he did earlier in the season, as a fan that greatly concerns me heading into the postseason.

Illinirob83
03-29-2011, 06:12 PM
Dude, just make the Heat fans feel a little better and be a little more logical. There will be a lot of GMs that would trade Rose for Wade right now. Wade is still a great player in his prime. But in 3-4 years, when Rose enters his prime and Wade nears the end of his, thats when your statement becomes true and any GM who would do that trade would be a fool.

Go back, and read what I said at the bottom of the last page. Of course, I was poking fun and flaming for the sake of boredom.

But to shizzle and others, I did ask a question and I would be interested in an honest answer without the ridiculous flame that you guys do provide and provoke.

ChI_ShIzzLe
03-29-2011, 06:13 PM
The anti Rose stuff has gotten alot more fierce in here lately. Any thing im posting about Rose in here is in rebuttal to the homer talking down on Wade. Not really hating on Rose himself as i think Rose is a beast.

lol don't worry man I actually regard you as one of the true Heat fans as I was making a list in some other thread :p I know that dude is going overboard with his posts and I don't agree with some of the things he's saying.

shizzle09
03-29-2011, 06:14 PM
First of all I used that because I know Rose has the edge with age. lol. No GM is gonna take Rose right now over Wade for one year, but for the future, of course Rose, due mostly to age more than ability.

But, let me ask you this in all seriousness. What does Wade do that Rose can't do? Right now. What is it?

Rose can do all the things Wade can do just not as good. Wade is better on both sides of the ball. Not a knock on Rose as Wade is top 3 in the league. And you're right if you counted age. I'd agree all GM's would want Rose at 22 compared to Wade at 29.

ChI_ShIzzLe
03-29-2011, 06:15 PM
dont know about the other stuff, but as for your wife, i can pretty much assure that she will be no, no, and no, in regards to those questions.

I want Miss Cleo who I quoted above to give me the answer, not you!

ChI_ShIzzLe
03-29-2011, 06:18 PM
Go back, and read what I said at the bottom of the last page. Of course, I was poking fun and flaming for the sake of boredom.

But to shizzle and others, I did ask a question and I would be interested in an honest answer without the ridiculous flame that you guys do provide and provoke.

Its ok, its not that serious bro. Just enjoy our team's success so far because we don't know how long its gonna last once the playoffs start. You don't wanna brag like you won a championship now and then feel like the kid who's prom date got ****ed by another dude if we lose in the 2nd round.

shizzle09
03-29-2011, 06:20 PM
lol don't worry man I actually regard you as one of the true Heat fans as I was making a list in some other thread :p I know that dude is going overboard with his posts and I don't agree with some of the things he's saying.

yeah, i dont know why i get caught up in this crap half the time. haha. I cant imagine how bad things are gonna get come playoff time. lol

Illinirob83
03-29-2011, 06:23 PM
Rose can do all the things Wade can do just not as good. Wade is better on both sides of the ball. Not a knock on Rose as Wade is top 3 in the league. And you're right if you counted age. I'd agree all GM's would want Rose at 22 compared to Wade at 29.

Rose is a better FT shooter, and that is important considering how many times those guys get to the line. Rose is learning how to absorb contact rather than trying to dodge it through most of his first two seasons, which has greatly benefited his game.

The one thing that does bother with Rose this particular season is that he is falling in love with the three too much, which has hurt his midrange game. Last season his midrange game was tremendous, but he couldn't hit the three. This year he was dedicated to getting a three point shot, which he has, but his midrange game has appeared to suffer.

Wade can't get to the rim as well or effortlessly as Rose right now, but is a more experienced cat in terms of knowing how to score better around the rim. If you look at Rose's midrange numbers last year, and his overall fg% last year it dwarfs this year's percentage. However, he couldn't take over the game as easily as he can now because he is gradually getting better around the rim, while also getting to the ft line a whole lot more.

Defensively Wade is probably still better, but Rose has fiercely closed the gap. He was a poor defender his first two years, but also dedicated himself to become good this offseason, as well as having a real coach help him....instead of Del Worthless. Rose has become a very solid defender. Wade still might be better at that, but the gap has vastly narrowed.

Again, I think we are splitting hairs. Rose is a top 10 player, Wade is a top 3-5. Both terrific. Wade is better now, but I would't trade Rose for him, especially down the stretch of games, and his undeniable will which doesn't show up in the stats. Not to say Wade isn't a great competitor, I just think Rose is on a different level when it comes to that.

JSLBULLS
03-29-2011, 06:23 PM
Its over people! Rose is going to win MVP. He has clearly been the best player on the best team in the East. The team with less talent than the next three closest teams. Quit whining, complaining, moaning and hating. There are arguements for multiple players every year and some are legitimate, but he has done more with less talent surrounding him than any other contender......period!!! ITS OVER!!!!

h2r09
03-29-2011, 06:25 PM
guys, seriously, who the **** cares. we are all arguing over semantics and we are trying to dissuade the other teams fans against their best player. everything is splitting hairs. just get over it.

there is no clear winner. like, how can you continuously, day after day, argue the same exact points over and over and over again and not realize this.

seriously, get over the argument.

shizzle09
03-29-2011, 06:32 PM
Rose is a better FT shooter, and that is important considering how many times those guys get to the line. Rose is learning how to absorb contact rather than trying to dodge it through most of his first two seasons, which has greatly benefited his game.

The one thing that does bother with Rose this particular season is that he is falling in love with the three too much, which has hurt his midrange game. Last season his midrange game was tremendous, but he couldn't hit the three. This year he was dedicated to getting a three point shot, which he has, but his midrange game has appeared to suffer.

Wade can't get to the rim as well or effortlessly as Rose right now, but is a more experienced cat in terms of knowing how to score better around the rim. If you look at Rose's midrange numbers last year, and his overall fg% last year it dwarfs this year's percentage. However, he couldn't take over the game as easily as he can now because he is gradually getting better around the rim, while also getting to the ft line a whole lot more.

Defensively Wade is probably still better, but Rose has fiercely closed the gap. He was a poor defender his first two years, but also dedicated himself to become good this offseason, as well as having a real coach help him....instead of Del Worthless. Rose has become a very solid defender. Wade still might be better at that, but the gap has vastly narrowed.

Again, I think we are splitting hairs. Rose is a top 10 player, Wade is a top 3-5. Both terrific. Wade is better now, but I would't trade Rose for him, especially down the stretch of games, and his undeniable will which doesn't show up in the stats. Not to say Wade isn't a great competitor, I just think Rose is on a different level when it comes to that.

Wade is one of the greatest competitors I've ever seen and thats not me being a homer. Over my many years of watching sports i've seen alot of great competitors and he's right there with the best. Dude plays with more heart than you can ever ask from a player. Yeah he takes a few plays off from time to time but thats what happens when you play 1,000% on every other play. everytime that man comes off the court he's phyically done and needs the rest. You dont become a NBA champion and olympic gold medalist by not being a competitor. He averaged 36 ppg over the four finals wins. You make good points in your post with the exception of this one. If your right about Rose being that much of a competitor than you have a really really bright future ahead of you as a bulls fan

PurpleJesus28
03-29-2011, 06:39 PM
theres a clear difference b/t disagreeing with rose for MVP and straight up spewing hate for no reason. i dont get why everyones bashing the kid saying he's got no talent and doesn't deserve to be in MVP contention and then complain about "homers" making ridiculous comments. two way straight fellas. fighting homerism with homerism gets you nowhere .

kids got mad talent and has carried his team to the top seed in the east with his 2nd and 3rd best players missing significant time. top 10 in points and assists and people want his numbers to be better. rose has been ballin hard all season long and if you really cant comprehend then, then quite frankly you need some serious help.

i think a fair argument could be made that rose is on wades level THIS season. to say he's better than wade though is still far fetched. wades been playing at a high level throughout his career and rose needs to show he can do that before he's considered better than one of the top players in the league year in and year out. in a couple years could rose be considered better than wade? absolutely (and no Heat fans, thats not a bash on Wade). he's made significant improvements each year and theres no evidence to say he'd take a step back. been a big wade fan and he was the one player in FA i really wanted, got mad heart isnt a dbag superstar. wouldn't trade wade for rose though - people seem to forget that wade is 7 years older than rose and although has been healthy for most of his career, he has had some injury problems. again, not a knock on wade, just stating facts.

hard for me to say too much on the rose vs westbrook debate that for some reason is going on in this thread too, don't really watch a lot of thunder games. numbers wise their very, very similiar, but i dont think in any sport that numbers tell the whole story. can't deny that durant shoulders a majority of the load on the offensive end and that it clears space for westbrook. that being said, westbrook is still a stud and a top pg in the league. again, cant say if he's better or not than rose b/c im not a thunder fan/game watcher, but since rose has led his team to the top spot being the leader and focal point of the team id have to give the nod to rose.

Double_R
03-29-2011, 06:40 PM
rose hands down deserves the mvp and also the mip award as well. he is just playing like a beast this year.

It's not a travesty if Rose wins the MVP, but let's get a few things straight; they should call the award the Best offensive player on one of the top teams; second DH has been a lot better in PER and WS and a ton of other advanced stats that really show value; finally DH plays both defense and offense at an extremely high level while seeing far more double and triple teams than anyone in the NBA and has weaker supporting cast than Rose.

Illinirob83
03-29-2011, 06:47 PM
Wade is one of the greatest competitors I've ever seen and thats not me being a homer. Over my many years of watching sports i've seen alot of great competitors and he's right there with the best. Dude plays with more heart than you can ever ask from a player. Yeah he takes a few plays off from time to time but thats what happens when you play 1,000% on every other play. everytime that man comes off the court he's phyically done and needs the rest. You dont become a NBA champion and olympic gold medalist by not being a competitor. He averaged 36 ppg over the four finals wins. You make good points in your post with the exception of this one. If your right about Rose being that much of a competitor than you have a really really bright future ahead of you as a bulls fan

Well, that is true, but I look at this year's team as vastly overachieving. People point to this or that or the other than Rose to figure out why, but it really isn't hard to figure out why. I watch nearly every minute of every game, and have been so surprised with how this team has performed, it has truly been a joy to watch, must see TV. But, the main reason for them being this successful doesn't get put on the stat sheet or in Hollinger's formula. Derrick Rose has flat out willed this team to several wins, several games they had no business winning, the guy was phenomenal. I believe the Bulls have outscored their opponents in the 4th qtr by over 200 pts this year, by far the best in the NBA. Chicago has ONE scorer who can create his own offensive game, ONE. So who is doing that scoring in those 4th qtrs and willing his team to victories? As Bulls fans we were very lucky to see a "killer" such as Jordan all of those years, Rose isn't as insane as Jordan was mentally, but I can't believe they have someone who thrives on winning as much as he does.

Don't take offense to this, but....Wade was on a team in '07 that lost to the Luol Deng Bulls in a 4-0 sweep. Again, I am not saying Wade isn't a great competitor because he is, but it almost seemed that team lacked leadership or will throughout that series and was completely embarrassed in game 4. That wouldn't happen with Rose in any series, he wouldn't allow it to happen. I know that sounds archaic, but that is how I feel, especially now with Rose playing on this level, he wouldn't let it happen in any series, especially not in a first round series. Plus, this summer told me a few things about Wade that didn't settle right with me as a huge fan of Wade's game and career. Also, I don't think Wade should have waited so long to demand the ball from Lebron down the stretch in close games against good opponents. Even Rose, at 22, wouldve told LBJ to get out the damn way if the team was continuing to lose the same way. Again, I am not saying Wade isn't a great competitor or isn't better than Rose as a player, but that stuff doesn't end up in the stat sheets.

Illinirob83
03-29-2011, 06:52 PM
It's not a travesty if Rose wins the MVP, but let's get a few things straight; they should call the award the Best offensive player on one of the top teams; second DH has been a lot better in PER and WS and a ton of other advanced stats that really show value; finally DH plays both defense and offense at an extremely high level while seeing far more double and triple teams than anyone in the NBA and has weaker supporting cast than Rose.

I am not saying DH isn't more valuable than Rose, and if he wins the award fine. But people need to stop using advanced metrics in BASKETBALL as the be all end all. Baseball, I understand and greatly value them. I subscribe to baseball prospectus every year and think baseball has come such a long way in the stat war. There is a place for it in basketball, no doubt, but the way people use them bothers me. In baseball it is pitcher vs. hitter, one on one, you aren't effected by a team's defense all that much or your teammates all that much. Basketball there are so many variables and factors that come in to just make blanket statements when using a, IMO, flawed formula in the first place. Again, I find some purpose for them, and do look at them and try to put it in proper context, but people are starting to use them as gospel as they do in baseball, and it doesn't fit at all like it does in that sport. Way too many variables or how a specific player is defended, how a specific player is asked to be used by his coach, what plays, what responsibilities etc. Comparing a C to a PG by using the formula is pointless IMO.

xxcubs22xx
03-29-2011, 06:55 PM
lmao. Some of you the things said in this forum are straight up ********.

It never seizes to amaze me how blatantly ignorant people are.

dodie53
03-29-2011, 07:20 PM
lebron should win it.
hehe

pd1dish
03-29-2011, 07:31 PM
lol of course the Miami Herald came out with an article against Rose as MVP. thats like LA Times putting out an article last year saying Lebron shouldnt be MVP because they though Kobe should get it. its dumb. you cant go by what Chicago or Miami sport writers' opinions because they are biased and every Miami guy is going to choose Lebron while every Chicago guy is going to choose Rose.

mjokc
03-29-2011, 07:47 PM
This rose hype is ridiculous. If rose gets MVP this will forever be known as the worst MVP selection of all time.

heatking
03-29-2011, 07:48 PM
wade is bigger, stronger, more athletic than rose, better jumper, more clutch... if there is a player rose reminds me of is wade, but at this point wade is clearly better.... ill go as far to say rose's team this year is better than the team wade won a championship with.

heatking
03-29-2011, 07:50 PM
i cant see rose as a true pg... he IS AI... sg in a pg body.

xxcubs22xx
03-29-2011, 07:51 PM
:laugh2:

heatking
03-29-2011, 07:53 PM
:laugh2:

ur sig is funny cause its true.

xxcubs22xx
03-29-2011, 07:55 PM
ur sig is funny cause its true.

:laugh:

ldawg
03-29-2011, 07:59 PM
Rose is mvp thus far. Its his to loose.

xxcubs22xx
03-29-2011, 08:03 PM
ur sig is funny cause its true.

Right...So a pretty awful PG happens to be the MVP frontrunner? hmmm, thats logical....NOT


wade is bigger, stronger, more athletic than rose, better jumper, more clutch... if there is a player rose reminds me of is wade, but at this point wade is clearly better.... ill go as far to say rose's team this year is better than the team wade won a championship with.

Wade is better, sure. Better jumper? nope. Bigger, stronger? yep. More athletic? Maybe Wade by a slight margin.


i cant see rose as a true pg... he IS AI... sg in a pg body.

If you don't see Rose as a true PG than it's about time you watch some Basketball. If you think Rose isn't a true PG then you're either blind or you don't watch basketball, or you're just a hater (which wouldn't surprise me).

heatking
03-29-2011, 08:12 PM
Right...So a pretty awful PG happens to be the MVP frontrunner? hmmm, thats logical....NOT



Wade is better, sure. Better jumper? nope. Bigger, stronger? yep. More athletic? Maybe Wade by a slight margin.



If you don't see Rose as a true PG than it's about time you watch some Basketball. If you think Rose isn't a true PG then you're either blind or you don't watch basketball, or you're just a hater (which wouldn't surprise me).

wades midrange jumper is one of the best in the league... there is a reason experts said rose should mimic wade in improving his jumper over the years.

rose is an MVP candidate because he is a great player, not a great pg.

LakersA's49ers
03-29-2011, 08:16 PM
rose and westbrook are both stars. no doubt!

heatking
03-29-2011, 08:18 PM
cp3, and nash are still the 2 best distributors in the league.

steveshane67
03-29-2011, 08:22 PM
at first i thought you copied and pasted the headline from the newspaper and thought that the miami herald must have 0 standards for its writers or editors.

but then a quick google search revealed that its just the OP who lacks writing skills.

it should read rose as mvp DOESNT add up.

i understand this is a sports forum, but can we at least try to not sound like HS dropouts

heatking
03-29-2011, 08:26 PM
wat u expect he be a bulls fan.

dabears34ft
03-29-2011, 08:42 PM
Ok enough with the numbers argument. Rose changes games night in and night out. He has transformed in to a great finisher, and he has his team atop the East, and not far off the NBA.

Stats wise of course everyone is right he shouldn't be the MVP, but you gotta watch the games. You gotta see what he does to make a difference in a game. Watch a Bulls 4th quarter and tell me who the MVP is.

I'm not saying Rose is running away with it like the vast majority, but I will say that he probably should be the front runner, stats or no stats. It's all about W's and he has brought us a crap ton of those.

If the Bulls win the East, I say he has to win it.

akagiredsuns
03-29-2011, 08:52 PM
Agree with the whole article.

For the record he thinks D Howard should win it.

Wow! A Heat fan thinks Rose shouldn't win the MVP? What a surprise. Rose winning is a no-brainer. Seriously, when are people gonna take the blinders off? :facepalm:

akagiredsuns
03-29-2011, 08:52 PM
Agree with the whole article.

For the record he thinks D Howard should win it.

Seriously? Howard is dominating in an era where there are no bigs that can really contest him. Please. Put him in the 90s alongside a young Shaq, Ewing, Mutombo, Olajuwon and he'd be average at best. People need to stop kidding themselves with Howard. You think there will be an MVP who got 17 technicals in one season? LOL :laugh2:

akagiredsuns
03-29-2011, 08:59 PM
Westbrook isn't equal to Rose, he's better.

And that's why SteveNash is the master baiter :facepalm:

JonnyBrav000
03-29-2011, 09:00 PM
Clearly you forget about Jeff Green who was there at the time who also averaged 14 ppg while in OKC. Boozer has also missed the majority of the season, making your point moot. If Rose has a healthy squad he would be much more efficient. He has to carry the Bulls offensively, Westbrook does not.


Exactly. Anyone who wants to jump on the Westbrook bangwagon and say he is better than Rose, just because of this article, you are a sheep. Rose is no doubt the better player, put Rose on the Thunder and he would light it up offensively because teams would not always focus on him since Durant is there. In Chicago, Rose is the main objective for defenses, and they still cannot stop him. Chicago has the best record despite not having two of their best players for a good part of the season. Without Rose Chicago is not even a playoff team. He is the MVP for the right reasons, even though I think Dwight Howard should be the co-MVP because what he is doing is also incredible.

xxcubs22xx
03-29-2011, 09:02 PM
wades midrange jumper is one of the best in the league... there is a reason experts said rose should mimic wade in improving his jumper over the years.

rose is an MVP candidate because he is a great player, not a great pg.

Rose IS a great PG, and he's a better shooter than Wade. Both statistically true. Wade has horrible range for a SG, and his high FG% is simply a reflection of his great ability to get to the basket.


wat u expect he be a bulls fan.

Hmm right. I am a Bulls fan. Way to put two and two together.

None of your arguments have merit to them, and you can't even get your grammar down. You don't watch basketball AND your not educated. Way to go. :clap:

*-THE REAL GM-*
03-29-2011, 09:04 PM
yeah?.. some idiot thinks 45minute Howard should be MVP..unreal even for a homer...

Lakerhead4ever
03-29-2011, 09:04 PM
i must admit this is very true. but at the same time this is an attempt to bash rose, and select bron as mvp.

ppl tend to forget the bulls was without boozer and then was without noah for a long period of time, and their number 1 in the east. tha has to mean something.

in my eyes, he has carried that team this yr, unlike westbrook

heatking
03-29-2011, 09:05 PM
(read sig)

xxcubs22xx
03-29-2011, 09:12 PM
:laugh2:

I knew you would say that.

No, i'm actually quite elated at the fact that Miami has the Big 3 but a relatively weak bench.

xxcubs22xx
03-29-2011, 09:21 PM
According to many of you, Jason Kidd and Steve Nash also don't know what they are talking about.


As Derrick Rose laments a loss to Philadelphia on Monday that snapped the Bulls’ 14-game home winning streak, the Chicago Bulls guard can take solace in knowing that potential Hall of Fame point guards Jason Kidd and Steve Nash endorse Rose for the MVP award.

During interviews with the Tribune after Sunday’s Suns-Mavericks game in Phoenix, Kidd and Nash extolled the virtues of Rose, who is averaging 25 points and 7.9 assists this season.

“Derrick is playing extremely well. He’s definitely probably the MVP of this league,” Kidd said. “This guy had 30 (points) and 17 (assists against Milwaukee last Saturday night). He can affect this game by scoring and also by his teammates. He is just going to get better, which is going to be a lot of fun to watch. I think he has all of the tools to be one of the best that played the game.”

Kidd, who turned 38 last Wednesday, is a 10-time NBA All-Star and was co-Rookie of the Year in 1995. Kidd realizes how difficult it is for a point guard to win the MVP award, as Nash has done twice during his stellar career.

“It’s hard because you’ve got so many guys,” Kidd said. “When you look at Nash … Nash is a special player, and now you’re going to start putting Rose in that category. As a point guard, you have so many things to do … get the ball to so many different guys, and then look to score. And he has shown that he can do it at a high level.”

Kidd, who is third all-time in the NBA with 107 triple-doubles, feels the 22-year-old Rose is capable of the same type of numbers throughout his career.

“I can watch him for a long time,” Kidd said. “He’s a special player. He’s young and he has picked up the game extremely fast. I think so far, in my book, he would be the MVP.”

Nash is a two-time MVP (2005, ’06) and a seven-time All-Star.

“There have not been many point guards to win MVP,” Nash said. “Derrick has been phenomenal this year. He continues to grow. He’s not only a terrific athlete, but he has turned into a terrific basketball player and he’s a great kid. He’s a willing learner, teammate and I have nothing but great things to say about him.”

After the 2004-05 season, Nash edged center Shaquille O’Neal for the league MVP honor, becoming only the third point guard (following Bob Cousy and Magic Johnson) to win the award. But Nash says he likes Rose’s chances this season.

“Absolutely. He has stepped up and is now one of the best players in the league,” Nash said. “I think he is a worthy MVP this year. But regardless, he’s a terrific player and will have a sensational career

LA_Raiders
03-29-2011, 10:00 PM
I think Kobe is going to take it...

JSLBULLS
03-29-2011, 10:17 PM
cp3, and nash are still the 2 best distributors in the league.

Maybe they have more assists, but if you think they are better point guards you are smoking something! Rose humiliated every "top" point guard head to head this year. It wasnt even close. And not just once, every time he played them. Deron, Paul, Nash, Westbrook is the only one that held his own against Rose.

nitric
03-29-2011, 10:44 PM
Miami Herald needs to worry about LeBron posting triple doubles in double digit losses :laugh2:

REGular
03-29-2011, 10:55 PM
According to many of you, Jason Kidd and Steve Nash also don't know what they are talking about.

Yeah, I'm ok with that.


Miami Herald needs to worry about LeBron posting triple doubles in double digit losses :laugh2:

. . . then shouldn't Rose worry about not posting triple-doubles in double digit losses?

mjokc
03-30-2011, 12:03 AM
I just hope either Kobe or Dwight gets MVP even though it likely won't happen. If rose gets MVP this will be the lamest MVP award ever.

rapjuicer06
03-30-2011, 08:50 AM
if rose gets it i will try and stay out of the nba forum cuz its just guna be bulls fans talkin **** to everyone saying u mad cuz rose got mvp blah blah blah

Niro
03-30-2011, 08:56 AM
rose>westbrook

pero

mvp race
lebron>rose

THE_G.O.A.T.
03-30-2011, 09:25 AM
The Miami Herald as a legit newspaper don't add up.

TO to the CHI
03-30-2011, 09:42 AM
if rose gets it i will try and stay out of the nba forum cuz its just guna be bulls fans talkin **** to everyone saying u mad cuz rose got mvp blah blah blah

I really don't see that happening. It gets awarded too early in the postseason and I am pretty sure most Bulls fans care about the championship much MUCH more. Now, after this year's champions are crowned, the NBA forum could become pretty ridiculous (regardless of who wins).

Indi23
03-30-2011, 09:45 AM
Lets make this simple take away wade from miami, still playoff team. Take away Rose and your a 6th place team. Rose = Best Player for his team this season which also means Rose = MVP this season.

Edit: I'm not a Bulls fan.

ChitownSports16
03-30-2011, 09:58 AM
According to many of you, Jason Kidd and Steve Nash also don't know what they are talking about.

shhhhhhhhh... dont post this up cause then your gonna get comments on how both Nash and Kidd dont know talent.

killbumdeluxe13
03-30-2011, 10:26 AM
:laugh2:

No, i'm actually quite elated at the fact that Miami has the Big 3 but a relatively weak bench.

If Heat fans were smart, theyd use this as the basis for why Lebron should be MVP. He's got two people helping him with a bunch of bums on the bench, while DRose has a legit top to bottom roster. Heat fans aren't smart though because they thought having three superstars with no bench was good enough to run train on everybody. :confused:

SoxBearsBulls!
03-30-2011, 04:16 PM
This rose hype is ridiculous. If rose gets MVP this will forever be known as the worst MVP selection of all time.

Haters gonna hate...BTW mjokc, we already know you hate Rose, this is like your 10th post in this thread calling Rose a scrub.:facepalm:

mjokc
03-30-2011, 04:22 PM
Haters gonna hate...BTW mjokc, we already know you hate Rose, this is like your 10th post in this thread calling Rose a scrub.:facepalm:

I've never once said rose is a scrub. Rose is a great player with a great future ahead of him. However, this current hype comparing him to the best PG of all time Magic Johnson. Saying he's better than Kobe, durant, wade etc. is really getting ridiculous.

redwhitenblue
03-30-2011, 04:23 PM
No one's compared him to Magic.

Alright everyone, let this thread die so the next "Rose isn't worthy of MVP" thread start.

ChI_ShIzzLe
03-30-2011, 04:27 PM
I've never once said rose is a scrub. Rose is a great player with a great future ahead of him. However, this current hype comparing him to the best PG of all time Magic Johnson. Saying he's better than Kobe, durant, wade etc. is really getting ridiculous.

WTF? :facepalm:

It was ONE guy(Legler) who brought up the Magic comparison. And where did anyone say he's better than Kobe, Durant, Wade, etc..???

For the billionth time, the MVP doesn't always go to the best player in the league, otherwise Jordan would've won them all from day 1 until he retired in 98 and Lebron would be winning them all right now. It's an award that recognizes the unanimous best player on a team that finishes with one of the top records in the NBA for that season.

SoxBearsBulls!
03-30-2011, 04:27 PM
I've never once said rose is a scrub. Rose is a great player with a great future ahead of him. However, this current hype comparing him to the best PG of all time Magic Johnson. Saying he's better than Kobe, durant, wade etc. is really getting ridiculous.

Wow, I haven't heard anyone saying he's better than Magic...in fact, I don't think Rose is yet in the top 10 players in the NBA right now but he's still only 22.

Nikeman
03-30-2011, 04:32 PM
Rose is MVP worthy, but I think others are more deserving. I believe Howard and LeBron are better MVP candidates than Rose.

Rose gives u 25/8, but not efficiently.

LeBron averages 26.5, 7.5 and 7. Rose is at 25/4/8.

LeBron has a more complete stat line, but to me, what sticks out is the fact LeBron is shooting above 50%, while Rose is not even at 45%. Derrick Rose is scoring a point and half less than LeBron but taking 2 more shots per game.

Derrick Rose is a great player, but he is not efficient. LeBron has a player efficiency rating of 28 while Rose is at 23.

Finally, on defense, LeBron is capable of shutting down his man night in and night out, while Rose is average.

Take everything into account, and LeBron puts up better stats despite being with 2 other players who demand the ball, while Rose is the only one on Chicago.

LeBron is the more complete player, and that is why I believe he deserves MVP.

I am not hating, just posting an argument, I am 99% sure Bulls fans won't argue with me and just call me a troll. I am always down for a friendly argument.

TBH, I don't really give a **** who wins MVP because LeBron already has two of them and I am sure he finds them meaningless if he is unable to win the title. NBA Title over MVP anyday.

nitric
03-30-2011, 04:35 PM
FWIW, LeBatard is a baseball guy who uses baseball metrics to compare NBA players which doesn't work WHATSOEVER. He predicted a 75 win season as soon as the Heat landed LeBron

redwhitenblue
03-30-2011, 04:35 PM
Lebron and Dwight shoot higher percentages for obvious reasons. They have far more attempts very close to the basket.

nitric
03-30-2011, 04:36 PM
Rose is MVP worthy, but I think others are more deserving. I believe Howard and LeBron are better MVP candidates than Rose.

Rose gives u 25/8, but not efficiently.

LeBron averages 26.5, 7.5 and 7. Rose is at 25/4/8.

LeBron has a more complete stat line, but to me, what sticks out is the fact LeBron is shooting above 50%, while Rose is not even at 45%. Derrick Rose is scoring a point and half less than LeBron but taking 2 more shots per game.

Derrick Rose is a great player, but he is not efficient. LeBron has a player efficiency rating of 28 while Rose is at 23.

Finally, on defense, LeBron is capable of shutting down his man night in and night out, while Rose is average.

Take everything into account, and LeBron puts up better stats despite being with 2 other players who demand the ball, while Rose is the only one on Chicago.

LeBron is the more complete player, and that is why I believe he deserves MVP.

I am not hating, just posting an argument, I am 99% sure Bulls fans won't argue with me and just call me a troll. I am always down for a friendly argument.

TBH, I don't really give a **** who wins MVP because LeBron already has two of them and I am sure he finds them meaningless if he is unable to win the title. NBA Title over MVP anyday.
LeBron clocked himself out of the race after posting a triple double in a double digit loss and failed once again in crunch time

gotoHcarolina52
03-30-2011, 04:37 PM
Rose does not deserve the MVP, but he is without a doubt a very good young player. I look forward to seeing him be a Top 15 player in the league for years to come.

ChI_ShIzzLe
03-30-2011, 04:38 PM
Lebron and Dwight shoot higher percentages for obvious reasons. They have far more attempts very close to the basket.

Not to mention their height and athleticism allows them to shoot over anyone basically. Rose has to work a lot harder for his shots even with his athleticism.

SoxBearsBulls!
03-30-2011, 04:40 PM
Rose is MVP worthy, but I think others are more deserving. I believe Howard and LeBron are better MVP candidates than Rose.

Rose gives u 25/8, but not efficiently.

LeBron averages 26.5, 7.5 and 7. Rose is at 25/4/8.

LeBron has a more complete stat line, but to me, what sticks out is the fact LeBron is shooting above 50%, while Rose is not even at 45%. Derrick Rose is scoring a point and half less than LeBron but taking 2 more shots per game.

Derrick Rose is a great player, but he is not efficient. LeBron has a player efficiency rating of 28 while Rose is at 23.

Finally, on defense, LeBron is capable of shutting down his man night in and night out, while Rose is average.

Take everything into account, and LeBron puts up better stats despite being with 2 other players who demand the ball, while Rose is the only one on Chicago.

LeBron is the more complete player, and that is why I believe he deserves MVP.

I am not hating, just posting an argument, I am 99% sure Bulls fans won't argue with me and just call me a troll. I am always down for a friendly argument.

TBH, I don't really give a **** who wins MVP because LeBron already has two of them and I am sure he finds them meaningless if he is unable to win the title. NBA Title over MVP anyday.

My argument would say that LeBron has D Wade and Rose has Deng/Boozer...who's more valuable to their team?If LBJ has a off night, Wade is perfectly capable of taking over a game...

Nikeman
03-30-2011, 04:41 PM
LeBron clocked himself out of the race after posting a triple double in a double digit loss and failed once again in crunch time

Exactly.. someone tries to make a legit argument and this is the best a Bulls fan can come up with. If there is a Bulls fans that want to truly post a legit response I will be glad to respond.


If Bulls fans want to play this game, did D-Rose not just have a double digit TO game in a double digit loss?

SoxBearsBulls!
03-30-2011, 04:44 PM
Rose does not deserve the MVP, but he is without a doubt a very good young player. I look forward to seeing him be a Top 15 player in the league for years to come.

I believe Rose has the talent to be a top 5 player if he keeps improving like he has the last 3 years.He's only 22!Imagine when he's in his prime in 5 or 6 years.

gotoHcarolina52
03-30-2011, 04:45 PM
Lebron and Dwight shoot higher percentages for obvious reasons. They have far more attempts very close to the basket.

To a certain extent, I agree, especially when it comes to Dwight since he is not a guard. But Rose drives to the basket a hell of a lot, and when you adjust for free throws and threes (True-shooting %):

Rose = .540
LeBron = .589

Nikeman
03-30-2011, 04:45 PM
My argument would say that LeBron has D Wade and Rose has Deng/Boozer...who's more valuable to their team?If LBJ has a off night, Wade is perfectly capable of taking over a game...

I hate this double standard Bulls fans use. When the Heat lose a game, everybody says that they have no bench and outside of 3 people, we have nobody. Well now when you talk MVP race, you say LeBron has D-Wade, but D-Rose has a complete team and the number 1 defense in the league backing him.

The Bulls D can dominate a game.

xxcubs22xx
03-30-2011, 04:48 PM
What is so hard to understand about the term? MOST VALUABLE PLAYER

Your "DRose is inefficient" argument is bunk. His fg% is diluted from all of the at-the-buzzer shots he takes that account for a significant deficit in his FGM per FGA. He has been getting to the line very often, executing plays, being a distributor (again, how the **** is he not a true PG to some of you? At the very least you need to pay attention.), has expanded his range, and has carried this team in sensational fashion.

He deserves MVP.

SoxBearsBulls!
03-30-2011, 04:51 PM
I hate this double standard Bulls fans use. When the Heat lose a game, everybody says that they have no bench and outside of 3 people, we have nobody. Well now when you talk MVP race, you say LeBron has D-Wade, but D-Rose has a complete team and the number 1 defense in the league backing him.

The Bulls D can dominate a game.

lol...good point:clap:

IDB Josh M
03-30-2011, 04:51 PM
The Bulls won't have that number one record without Derrick Rose. Miami has nothing to slouch at, they have two MVP candidates on one team.

xxcubs22xx
03-30-2011, 04:52 PM
Exactly.. someone tries to make a legit argument and this is the best a Bulls fan can come up with. If there is a Bulls fans that want to truly post a legit response I will be glad to respond.


If Bulls fans want to play this game, did D-Rose not just have a double digit TO game in a double digit loss?

Did Lebron not just record a triple-double in a loss against the Cavs? :laugh2:

But seriously. Derrick Rose is the most valuable player.

Nikeman
03-30-2011, 04:53 PM
What is so hard to understand about the term? MOST VALUABLE PLAYER

Your "DRose is inefficient" argument is bunk. His fg% is diluted from all of the at-the-buzzer shots he takes that account for a significant deficit in his FGM per FGA. He has been getting to the line very often, executing plays, being a distributor (again, how the **** is he not a true PG to some of you? At the very least you need to pay attention.), has expanded his range, and has carried this team in sensational fashion.

He deserves MVP.

The best you can come up with is fg% diluted from the buzzer shots? Yea, LeBron never takes at the buzzer shots..

LeBron has also been distributing, the dude averages 1 less assist than Rose, and he does not dominate the ball like Rose.

Props to rose for expanding his range, but that does not make him MVP.

LeBron is a more efficient, and simply better player than Rose.

Nikeman
03-30-2011, 04:53 PM
Did Lebron not just record a triple-double in a loss against the Cavs? :laugh2:

But seriously. Derrick Rose is the most valuable player.

Read the post I responded to you fool, thats what that Bulls fan already said.

xxcubs22xx
03-30-2011, 04:56 PM
The best you can come up with is fg% diluted from the buzzer shots? Yea, LeBron never takes at the buzzer shots..

LeBron has also been distributing, the dude averages 1 less assist than Rose, and he does not dominate the ball like Rose.

Props to rose for expanding his range, but that does not make him MVP.

LeBron is a more efficient, and simply better player than Rose.

Since when does Rose dominate the ball? Have you even been following our team at all? We've battled injuries this season, poor offensive execution, bad losses, and Derrick Rose has picked us up. Never has he dominated the ball. He's making plays. Same with Lebron.However, Rose's IMPACT this year exceeds Lebron's.


Read the post I responded to you fool, thats what that Bulls fan already said.

I know thats why I laughed.

Nikeman
03-30-2011, 04:56 PM
Just to let everyone know, I do not think that LeBron even deserves MVP. In my eyes it should go to Dwight Howard. Just using LeBron as an example of someone who deserves it even more than Rose since he's my guy lol.

Nikeman
03-30-2011, 04:58 PM
Since when does Rose dominate the ball? Have you even been following our team at all? We've battled injuries this season, poor offensive execution, bad losses, and Derrick Rose has picked us up. Never has he dominated the ball. He's making plays. Same with Lebron.However, Rose's IMPACT this year exceeds Lebron's.

Yes I have watched Bulls games. Rose is the epitome of dominating the ball. He brings the ball down court, holds it for probably 10 seconds, and then sets somebody up or passes. But no matter what, every Bulls possession, you have D-Rose running the show.

In the case of Miami, LeBron has to share the rock with Wade/Bosh and does not even touch it on some possessions

Rose's Impact may exceed LeBron, but no way in hell has he does he impact his team more than Dwight Howard, who I 110% believe should win.

xxcubs22xx
03-30-2011, 04:59 PM
Rose pretty much is MVP already. IMO. I just sit here and flash through plays he's made and games he's changed. He's a run killer, and lead-creator.

gotoHcarolina52
03-30-2011, 04:59 PM
Props to rose for expanding his range, but that does not make him MVP.

LeBron is a more efficient, and simply better player than Rose.

True, but LeBron doesn't have the intangible "X factor"--that nebulous je ne sais quoi that Bulls fans pull out of their butts whenever they are forced to refute the mounds of statistical evidence showing Rose is a good, but not great player. Said "X factor" is often veiled by layers and layers of vacuous terms such as "leadership," "hunger," "clutch-ness," "killer instinct," "will to win," etc. All these terms, in turn, are symptomatic of an illness we have up to now been unable to cure: "homer-ism."

gotoHcarolina52
03-30-2011, 05:02 PM
Rose pretty much is MVP already. IMO. I just sit here and flash through plays he's made and games he's changed. He's a run killer, and lead-creator.

Here we go again. Right on cue.

Nikeman
03-30-2011, 05:04 PM
Rose pretty much is MVP already. IMO. I just sit here and flash through plays he's made and games he's changed. He's a run killer, and lead-creator.

Agree 100%. Rose is a lock as MVP. I think this is BS, but basically ESPN has rode his **** and created the buzz. Stan Van Gundy was 100% on point with his comments he made earlier. Its sad Dwight is not even getting looked at.

He is dominating the paint on BOTH ends, and is a Force on the boards. 23/14 and the best defensive player on the game.

xxcubs22xx
03-30-2011, 05:04 PM
Rose maintains a level of inefficiency, inexperience, while showing intangibles. He has changed games around on his own. He has become a better distributor and at the same time creating comfort in his new teammates. You wanna say he dominates the ball? Ok, sure? You mad?

We are atop the East, led by MVP, Derrick Rose.

towlsmoke420
03-30-2011, 05:06 PM
I guess people cant add no more

near best record + major improvement from last year + greatest scoring point guard since A.I ======= MVP

Nikeman
03-30-2011, 05:07 PM
Rose maintains a level of inefficiency, inexperience, while showing intangibles. He has changed games around on his own. He has become a better distributor and at the same time creating comfort in his new teammates. You wanna say he dominates the ball? Ok, sure? You mad?

We are atop the East, led by MVP, Derrick Rose.

Bulls fans keep saying Rose is a game-changer?

So your telling me that LeBron and Dwight are not? ***** please..

Am I mad? Not at all, but I am sure you will be once you lose in the playoffs.

Lolwut?
03-30-2011, 05:08 PM
arenas was a better scoring point guard.

gotoHcarolina52
03-30-2011, 05:08 PM
Rose maintains a level of inefficiency, inexperience, while showing intangibles. He has changed games around on his own. He has become a better distributor and at the same time creating comfort in his new teammates. You wanna say he dominates the ball? Ok, sure? You mad?

We are atop the East, led by MVP, Derrick Rose.

:facepalm:

gotoHcarolina52
03-30-2011, 05:09 PM
I guess people cant add no more

near best record + major improvement from last year + greatest scoring point guard since A.I ======= MVP


Most Improved Player? Yes. Most Valuable? :laugh:

towlsmoke420
03-30-2011, 05:11 PM
Most Improved Player? Yes. Most Valuable? :laugh:

Boozer and Noah been out for 1/3 of the season and still manages to beat teams like yours and LA......

- Explain to me how he is not any value to their team leading the east ??

xxcubs22xx
03-30-2011, 05:12 PM
Bulls fans keep saying Rose is a game-changer?

So your telling me that LeBron and Dwight are not? ***** please..

Am I mad? Not at all, but I am sure you will be once you lose in the playoffs.

Nope that's not what I'm saying. But Rose is more deserving of the MVP.

Once we lose in the playoffs? Please. Miami just lost to Cleveland for crying out loud, Lebron AND Bibby both lit it up. Good luck to you, good sir.

JLynn943
03-30-2011, 05:14 PM
Rose has a case, but no one comes even close to Dwight Howard in deserving the MVP award in my opinion.

Whoever made the comment about Rose just being the best offensive player on an okay offense and the worst defensive player on a great defense is absolutely correct. Without the great defense the rest of his teammates provide, the Bulls wouldn't have nearly as many wins and Rose would not be a front-runner for MVP.

How Dwight Howard isn't running away with it is beyond me. I'm guessing it's just the media factor coming from the size difference of Chicago vs Orlando...

smiddy012
03-30-2011, 05:14 PM
True, but LeBron doesn't have the intangible "X factor"--that nebulous je ne sais quoi that Bulls fans pull out of their butts whenever they are forced to refute the mounds of statistical evidence showing Rose is a good, but not great player. Said "X factor" is often veiled by layers and layers of vacuous terms such as "leadership," "hunger," "clutch-ness," "killer instinct," "will to win," etc. All these terms, in turn, are symptomatic of an illness we have up to now been unable to cure: "homer-ism."

Heat fans seem to forget they have 3 top 20 players, and arguably the best 2 players in basketball...

So when defenses play the Heat, they got three guys to focus on...

Most Heat fans don't understand how this makes winning (and efficient stats) easier for each of the 3...

Yet Rose apparently has a better supporting cast (which is funny to hear Heat fans say), which means Lebron deserves MVP, even though he is never the primary focus of defenses - not to mention Rose has been the BETTER WINNER this season.

And obviously the Heat defense must not be great, because Wade and Lebron couldn't stop Rose (1 man), so I guess I'll concede that :eyebrow:

gotoHcarolina52
03-30-2011, 05:14 PM
Boozer and Noah been out for 1/3 of the season and still manages to beat teams like yours and LA......

- Explain to me how he is not any value to their team leading the east ??

NOT ANY value is very different from MOST value.

nitric
03-30-2011, 05:15 PM
Most Improved Player? Yes. Most Valuable? :laugh:

ESPN and NBA and most of the media must be jokes as well?
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-110329/nba-awards-watch
:clap:

xxcubs22xx
03-30-2011, 05:16 PM
Rose has a case, but no one comes even close to Dwight Howard in deserving the MVP award in my opinion.

Whoever made the comment about Rose just being the best offensive player on an okay offense and the worst defensive player on a great defense is absolutely correct. Without the great defense the rest of his teammates provide, the Bulls wouldn't have nearly as many wins and Rose would not be a front-runner for MVP.

How Dwight Howard isn't running away with it is beyond me. I'm guessing it's just the media factor coming from the size difference of Chicago vs Orlando...

Orlando is 6.5 games behind Chicago. There's your answer.

finalverse
03-30-2011, 05:17 PM
So your telling me that LeBron and Dwight are not? ***** please..So why do they have worse records? MVP's lead their teams to greatness and that's what Rose is doing. How he does it doesn't matter. I'd rather have Rose as is with the best record in the East then a statistical giant whose team has been a disappointment.

nitric
03-30-2011, 05:18 PM
Orlando is 6.5 games behind Chicago. There's your answer.

Back to back 59 win seasons, mid season trade since the team wasn't doing too well, suspensions due to technicals...he doesn't have that much of a case for MVP. Amazing numbers though

finalverse
03-30-2011, 05:18 PM
NOT ANY value is very different from MOST value.Ok, show me a player who has had to deal with 2 of his main starters out for that long and still leading his team atop his conference...then we can talk.

towlsmoke420
03-30-2011, 05:19 PM
NOT ANY value is very different from MOST value.

I have no clue what you are taking about... your head is too far up lebrons butt.

Rose is 22, 6 foot 3, 190 pound beast who has been playing excellent ball against 6-7 ft , 200-290 pounds of players.... and a small man is avg 25pnts a game, while his team is leading the nba..

please remove your head out of lebron a$s and your left hand from wades and right from bosh.

gotoHcarolina52
03-30-2011, 05:20 PM
ESPN and NBA and most of the media must be jokes as well?
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-110329/nba-awards-watch
:clap:

Talk about self-defeatest. Your own link reveals your homerific blindness:

Rose
G MIN FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK RPG AST PTS PER
72 37.5 .440 .329 .852 1.1 0.6 4.2 7.9 25.0 23.4

LeBron
G MIN FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK RPG AST PTS PER
71 38.5 .505 .335 .764 1.4 0.6 7.5 6.8 26.5 27.0

So Rose shoots FT at a better percentage and accumulates 1.1 more assists per game. Whoopty doo! I don't blame Rose, he's a hard-nosed player. I blame the media and all the Bulls homers. Rose as MVP is the biggest act of fraud since the Lufthansa heist.

nitric
03-30-2011, 05:21 PM
LeBron isn't going to win any MVPs playing next to a top 3 player. Get over it Heat fans. How am I a homer when every media outlet has Rose over LeBron? :laugh2: Pathetic...must be because we swept you guys this season and you guys want some kind of victory over the Bulls this season

gotoHcarolina52
03-30-2011, 05:21 PM
I have no clue what you are taking about...

I should've known. My apologies to PSD for trying to reason with a child.

Nikeman
03-30-2011, 05:22 PM
Now Bulls fans keep bringing up record?

Then in that case somebody from the Spurs should win??

Nikeman
03-30-2011, 05:24 PM
I have no clue what you are taking about... your head is too far up lebrons butt.

Rose is 22, 6 foot 3, 190 pound beast who has been playing excellent ball against 6-7 ft , 200-290 pounds of players.... and a small man is avg 25pnts a game, while his team is leading the nba..

please remove your head out of lebron a$s and your left hand from wades and right from bosh.

wtf does size have to do with ANYTHING? Please just the the **** out dude.

nitric
03-30-2011, 05:24 PM
Now Bulls fans keep bringing up record?

Then in that case somebody from the Spurs should win??

No one from the Spurs stand out unless you want Tim Duncan winning the MVP since the Spurs are struggling without him.

towlsmoke420
03-30-2011, 05:25 PM
I should've known. My apologies to PSD for trying to reason with a child.

you have no reasoning what so ever. your strongest claim is that he shouldn't be mvp because he is not valuable. You clearly are too much in love with your own players, while not acknowledging another player that has been playing greater than your own. Please grow up, and at the end of the rose is going to be mvp, and kobe finals mvp. When you take this in, you will realize how foolish you are

Lolwut?
03-30-2011, 05:25 PM
Heat fans seem to forget they have 3 top 20 players, and arguably the best 2 players in basketball...

So when defenses play the Heat, they got three guys to focus on...

Most Heat fans don't understand how this makes winning (and efficient stats) easier for each of the 3...

Yet Rose apparently has a better supporting cast (which is funny to hear Heat fans say), which means Lebron deserves MVP, even though he is never the primary focus of defenses - not to mention Rose has been the BETTER WINNER this season.

And obviously the Heat defense must not be great, because Wade and Lebron couldn't stop Rose (1 man), so I guess I'll concede that :eyebrow:

9-24 fg 26 points 4 turnovers, -4 +/- feb 24
34 points chuking up 27 shots only making 12 - jan 15

zomg he was so unstoppable atleast he was more efficient the last game :rolleyes:

mjokc
03-30-2011, 05:26 PM
Can't you guys see? D.Rose is the best player to ever grace the game of basketball. MVP isn't even worthy if him.

finalverse
03-30-2011, 05:26 PM
Why are Heat fans clamoring for Lebron? If he's MVP why can't he lead his team to victory over the best of the best especially with Wade and Bosh on his team. That's 3 top 10 players in the league (at least prior to the start of the season). If ever there was a year when Lebron SHOULDN'T win...it's this year. I can maybe...maybe see an argument for Dwight but Lebron for MVP is a joke. Of course that's my opinion and the panel may choose otherwise.

nitric
03-30-2011, 05:26 PM
Can't you guys see? D.Rose is the best player to ever grace the game of basketball. MVP isn't even worthy if him.

Only a clown would think the best player wins the MVP award

Nikeman
03-30-2011, 05:27 PM
No one from the Spurs stand out unless you want Tim Duncan winning the MVP since the Spurs are struggling without him.

Ok exactly.. record does not mean everything, otherwise the best player with the team with the best record should win every year.

Orlando at 47-27 is more than good enough to produce DH12 as MVP.'

He has a 10x bigger impact than Rose for Orlando.

Lolwut?
03-30-2011, 05:27 PM
I have no clue what you are taking about... your head is too far up lebrons butt.

Rose is 22, 6 foot 3, 190 pound beast who has been playing excellent ball against 6-7 ft , 200-290 pounds of players.... and a small man is avg 25pnts a game, while his team is leading the nba..

please remove your head out of lebron a$s and your left hand from wades and right from bosh.

oh the irony.

haggis
03-30-2011, 05:28 PM
Ok exactly.. record does not mean everything, otherwise the best player with the team with the best record should win every year.

Orlando at 47-27 is more than good enough to produce DH12 as MVP.'

He has a 10x bigger impact than Rose for Orlando.

So then if record doesn't mean anything to you, I expect Kevin Love to be firmly planted in your top 3 for MVP.

finalverse
03-30-2011, 05:29 PM
This is a case more of haterism rather than homerism. Bulls fans at least have a case when claiming Rose is MVP (he's valuable to his team due to Noah and Booz missing games + they have the best record in the East). Those not wanting Rose for MVP is just a case of haterade. None of the other players in the conversation have significantly better stats, better team record or had to deal with the injuries to his starters like Rose has. Every point you guys make is just full of fail.

Nikeman
03-30-2011, 05:29 PM
Why are Heat fans clamoring for Lebron? If he's MVP why can't he lead his team to victory over the best of the best especially with Wade and Bosh on his team. That's 3 top 10 players in the league (at least prior to the start of the season). If ever there was a year when Lebron SHOULDN'T win...it's this year. I can maybe...maybe see an argument for Dwight but Lebron for MVP is a joke. Of course that's my opinion and the panel may choose otherwise.

AGAIN, this double standard? When the Heat lose, I hear all this bull about the Heat not having a complete team, and how they have no bench, and its 3 vs 5. Now, in the MVP race talks, the Heat have Wade and Bosh, who are top 10 players. D-Rose has a complete team unlike the Heat, and its the Bulls team defense to thank if he wins the MVP award.

And Bosh is FAR from a top 10 player.

So much **** has been talked about Bosh, but now he becomes a top 10 player in the MVP race.

towlsmoke420
03-30-2011, 05:30 PM
This is a case more of haterism rather than homerism. Bulls fans at least have a case when claiming Rose is MVP (he's valuable to his team due to Noah and Booz missing games + they have the best record in the East). Those not wanting Rose for MVP is just a case of haterade. None of the other players in the conversation have significantly better stats, better team record or had to deal with the injuries to his starters like Rose has. Every point you guys make is just full of fail.

^ this , thanks .... peace!

nitric
03-30-2011, 05:30 PM
Ok exactly.. record does not mean everything, otherwise the best player with the team with the best record should win every year.

Orlando at 47-27 is more than good enough to produce DH12 as MVP.'

He has a 10x bigger impact than Rose for Orlando.

Fourth seed in the east, eight in the nba, sub-500 record against elite teams. Dwight won't be winning the MVP this year, despite his amazing stats. DPOY and MVP? Only Hakeem and Jordan have done that

shizzle09
03-30-2011, 05:30 PM
LeBron isn't going to win any MVPs playing next to a top 3 player. Get over it Heat fans. How am I a homer when every media outlet has Rose over LeBron? :laugh2: Pathetic...must be because we swept you guys this season and you guys want some kind of victory over the Bulls this season

enjoy that reg season crap. Only wins i'm concerned with are playoff wins. It's a whole new ball game. As for MVP it's clearly Rose. Would it be a shock if Lebron or Howard won it? nope but Rose should win it and has earned it.

Nikeman
03-30-2011, 05:31 PM
This is a case more of haterism rather than homerism. Bulls fans at least have a case when claiming Rose is MVP (he's valuable to his team due to Noah and Booz missing games + they have the best record in the East). Those not wanting Rose for MVP is just a case of haterade. None of the other players in the conversation have significantly better stats, better team record or had to deal with the injuries to his starters like Rose has. Every point you guys make is just full of fail.

Dwight Howard has 10x the impact Rose has. Dwight Howard had to deal with a mid-season trade which completely shook up Orlando's roster. Dwight has NOBODY consistent on the Magic. He never knows what he is going to get from his teammates. Rose has a legit 20/10 guy in Booz.

HesterTrain
03-30-2011, 05:32 PM
Ok exactly.. record does not mean everything, otherwise the best player with the team with the best record should win every year.

Orlando at 47-27 is more than good enough to produce DH12 as MVP.'

He has a 10x bigger impact than Rose for Orlando.

and 17 technical fouls...

Nikeman
03-30-2011, 05:32 PM
and 17 technical fouls...

What does that have to do with anything?

nitric
03-30-2011, 05:33 PM
enjoy that reg season crap. Only wins i'm concerned with are playoff wins. It's a whole new ball game. As for MVP it's clearly Rose. Would it be a shock if Lebron or Howard won it? nope but Rose should win it and has earned it.

I hope to avoid you guys in the 2nd round :p

Lolwut?
03-30-2011, 05:33 PM
So then if record doesn't mean anything to you, I expect Kevin Love to be firmly planted in your top 3 for MVP.

your just taking it too far and twisting his words you cant be this dumb..

nitric
03-30-2011, 05:34 PM
Dwight Howard has 10x the impact Rose has. Dwight Howard had to deal with a mid-season trade which completely shook up Orlando's roster. Dwight has NOBODY consistent on the Magic. He never knows what he is going to get from his teammates. Rose has a legit 20/10 guy in Booz.

You want to know Boozer's stats for the month of March? 12ppg 6rpg with horrific defense on 45%FG.

Lolwut?
03-30-2011, 05:34 PM
This is a case more of haterism rather than homerism. Bulls fans at least have a case when claiming Rose is MVP (he's valuable to his team due to Noah and Booz missing games + they have the best record in the East). Those not wanting Rose for MVP is just a case of haterade. None of the other players in the conversation have significantly better stats, better team record or had to deal with the injuries to his starters like Rose has. Every point you guys make is just full of fail.

dwight dealed with a huge trade early in the season plus his stats are way better than rose

finalverse
03-30-2011, 05:36 PM
Dwight Howard has 10x the impact Rose has. Dwight Howard had to deal with a mid-season trade which completely shook up Orlando's roster. Dwight has NOBODY consistent on the Magic. He never knows what he is going to get from his teammates. Rose has a legit 20/10 guy in Booz.lol he had to deal with a trade because the team was underperforming. How can an MVP's team be underperforming? They had Vince Carter, Rashard Lewis and Gortat and exchanged for Areanas, Jason Richardson and Hedo...you guys talk about the Magic players as if they are scrubs. It's not Rose's fault that Howard can't lead a pretty decent team towards a better record.

Noah and Boozer have missed basically 60 games. Which means Rose has had to do it with guys like Asik, Kurt Thomas and Taj....none of which are world beaters. Plus we're still looking for a shooting guard. Come on man, the Bulls team is not significantly better than the Heat or the Magic especially since 2 of our core players have barely played so it's been even weaker despite our record. We just have an MVP candidate who happens to LEAD his team to victory rather than blame it on the lack of support he has.

shizzle09
03-30-2011, 05:36 PM
I hope to avoid you guys in the 2nd round :p

same here. I dont know if i could handle those close games the Heat/Bulls always play in a win or go home series.

shizzle09
03-30-2011, 05:40 PM
You want to know Boozer's stats for the month of March? 12ppg 6rpg with horrific defense on 45%FG.

Boozer is killing my fantasy hopes. :mad:

HesterTrain
03-30-2011, 05:40 PM
What does that have to do with anything?

When was the last MVP to have that many Technical fouls? That's all i'm saying. He's been suspended a few times.

finalverse
03-30-2011, 05:41 PM
dwight dealed with a huge trade early in the season plus his stats are way better than roseSignifcantly better? How does Rose having a better PPG, APG, 3P% and FT% equate to Dwight having 'significantly' better stats? I emphasize the word 'significant' since that is what you're suggesting. If anything it's equal or slighly different one way or another....which leads me to team record. Rose leads his team to a better record at home, on the road, against top teams against bad teams and with more injuries to his stars.

Lolwut?
03-30-2011, 05:51 PM
Signifcantly better? How does Rose having a better PPG, APG, 3P% and FT% equate to Dwight having 'significantly' better stats? I emphasize the word 'significant' since that is what you're suggesting. If anything it's equal or slighly different one way or another....which leads me to team record. Rose leads his team to a better record at home, on the road, against top teams against bad teams and with more injuries to his stars.

dwight - 22 pts 14 rbs 2.4 blks 26.18 per , 1.3 stls, 60 % fg

rose - 25 pts 7.9 ast 23.37 per, 43 fg % ( :puke:) 1.1 stl

rose and dwight are hard to compare cause they play different positions but dwight is having a much better season. his numbers for a big man are historical.

finalverse
03-30-2011, 05:55 PM
dwight - 22 pts 14 rbs 2.4 blks 26.18 per , 1.3 stls, 60 % fg

rose - 25 pts 7.9 ast 23.37 per, 43 fg % ( :puke:) 1.1 stl

rose and dwight are hard to compare cause they play different positions but dwight is having a much better season. his numbers for a big man are historical.Why are you pointing out FG% but not FT% and 3P%. What are those stats?

Lolwut?
03-30-2011, 05:57 PM
cause dwight is a center and doesnt shoot threes

Gators123
03-30-2011, 05:59 PM
Since All-Star break

Rose- 25.4 points, 6.9 assist, 3.7 rebounds, 41% FG, 27% 3PT

Howard- 24.4 points, 15.8 rebounds, 3.4 blocks, 63% FG

Just pointing that out.

finalverse
03-30-2011, 06:02 PM
cause dwight is a center and doesnt shoot threesOk, Rose is a point guard so he shoots from further out and most of his shots are against bigger guys. Excuses go both ways. So if Rose had Dwights immaculate (lol) statline...but his team was doing worse than the Magic...you'd say Rose should be MVP?

Because from my perspective if the roles were reversed and Rose had Dwights numbers but the Bulls were in 4th place, I'd give it to Howard since the stats are close yet Howard was leading the Magic to the 1st place spot in the East.

Lolwut?
03-30-2011, 06:04 PM
Ok, Rose is a point guard so he shoots from further out and most of his shots are against bigger guys. Excuses go both ways. So if Rose had Dwights immaculate (lol) statline...but had his team was doing worse than the Magic...you'd say Rose should be MVP?

if rose was avg like 25 - 10 efficiently and played very good defense and led the orlando magic to a 4 seed yes.

finalverse
03-30-2011, 06:06 PM
if rose was avg like 25 - 10 efficiently and played very good defense and led the orlando magic to a 4 seed yes.So leading a team and making them better has nothing to do with it in your opinion? I just have a different opinon as to what the word "significant" implies. To me Howard has "significantly' better stats than Omer Asik. He does not however have 'significantly' better stats than Rose.

nitric
03-30-2011, 06:06 PM
Since All-Star break

Rose- 25.4 points, 6.9 assist, 3.7 rebounds, 41% FG, 27% 3PT

Howard- 24.4 points, 15.8 rebounds, 3.4 blocks, 63% FG

Just pointing that out.

Is the MVP decided with post-all star numbers?

ramsizzle
03-30-2011, 06:08 PM
if rose was avg like 25 - 10 efficiently and played very good defense and led the orlando magic to a 4 seed yes.

except he is averaging 25 and 8 with more than decent defense and decent efficiency numbers and leading the bulls to a 1 seed. ill take that any day.

Lolwut?
03-30-2011, 06:09 PM
So leading a team and making them better has nothing to do with it in your opinion?

he would be leading a bunch of scrubs like arenas and hedoodoo to a 4th seed if rose did that it would be amazing.

Lolwut?
03-30-2011, 06:10 PM
Is the MVP decided with post-all star numbers?

was it any better before ?

finalverse
03-30-2011, 06:11 PM
except he is averaging 25 and 8 with more than decent defense and decent efficiency numbers and leading the bulls to a 1 seed. ill take that any day.I don't get this whole "defense" talk. It's like these guys don't watch the games when he shuts down basically every point guard he plays. The 3 other elite point guards (Rondo, Deron and CPaul) were all basically shut down. If he had terrible defense then they would have had more of an impact.

Gators123
03-30-2011, 06:11 PM
Is the MVP decided with post-all star numbers?

No, but were not exactly talking about a 5 game slump. Its been 19 games.

finalverse
03-30-2011, 06:12 PM
he would be leading a bunch of scrubs like arenas and hedoodoo to a 4th seed if rose did that it would be amazing.Because Keith Bogans, Omer Asik, Kurt Thomas, and Taj Gibson aren't scrubs? Those are the starters that Rose has had to deal with for a great part of the season. IMO (obviously I could be greatly wrong) Rose is just a better leader. His will to win and ability to enforce that will is better than what Howard brings. I don't think Magic players are scrubs...they just don't have a leader to lead them.

smiddy012
03-30-2011, 06:13 PM
I can understand Dwight but Lebron for MVP makes little sense.

If winning was purely about efficient stats, well the Heat would be a lot better than they are.

TO to the CHI
03-30-2011, 06:14 PM
Why are you pointing out FG% but not FT% and 3P%. What are those stats?

They don't help his argument. Duh.

finalverse
03-30-2011, 06:16 PM
No, but were not exactly talking about a 5 game slump. Its been 19 games.With no shooting guard and an injured Boozer for several games...yet still managed to have what the 1 or 2 best mark record wise since the all star game? MVP to me is about as much to do with stats as it does with how you lead your team. How valuable to you are to your team (wins while dealing with injury + ability to enforce your will to help your team win in the closing moments).

ramsizzle
03-30-2011, 06:17 PM
No, but were not exactly talking about a 5 game slump. Its been 19 games.

19 games in which although admittedly inefficient...he and the bulls have climbed from the 3rd seed to the 1st seed with a 2 game lead with 8 to go....he though has completely TAKEN over end of game situations and willed his team to victory. that is essentially what the MVP is...

finalverse
03-30-2011, 06:17 PM
PS...I'm not against Dwight winning MVP. I think he deserves it more than Lebron does. I just feel Rose deserves it more but I wouldn't be mad if Dwight gets it.

Lolwut?
03-30-2011, 06:19 PM
Because Keith Bogans, Omer Asik, Kurt Thomas, and Taj Gibson aren't scrubs? Those are the starters that Rose has had to deal with for a great part of the season. IMO (obviously I could be greatly wrong) Rose is just a better leader. His will to win and ability to enforce that will is better than what Howard brings. I don't think Magic players are scrubs...they just don't have a leader to lead them.

better leader ? call me when the bulls reach the nba finals. Rose is very quiet on the floor he isnt a vocal leader on the court or locker room he's not gonna dig into his teammates when someone makes a mistake he just leads by example and tbh he needs to learn to be more vocal i know shyness isn't easy to overcome but he got some work.

ramsizzle
03-30-2011, 06:20 PM
better leader ? call me when the bulls reach the nba finals. Rose is very quiet on the floor he isnt a vocal leader on the court or locker room he's not gonna dig into his teammates when someone makes a mistake he just leads by example and tbh he needs to learn to be more vocal i know shyness isn't easy to overcome but he got some work.

EVERY ONE of these comments isn't true. Rose has indeed broken out of his "shell". and Lebron has QUIT on more than one occasion. so if that is your argument please please find another...

finalverse
03-30-2011, 06:22 PM
better leader ? call me when the bulls reach the nba finals. Rose is very quiet on the floor he isnt a vocal leader on the court or locker room he's not gonna dig into his teammates when someone makes a mistake he just leads by example and tbh he needs to learn to be more vocal i know shyness isn't easy to overcome but he got some work.Dwight ain't no leader. All he does is get technical fouls for *****ing and throwing elbows while dancing around with a big goofy grin. Now with that said at least he has gotten to the finals. Unfortunatly the MVP is not what did you do a couple years ago. It's what did you do this year. Plus MVP is a regular season award and has little to do with getting to the finals.

ramsizzle
03-30-2011, 06:24 PM
Dwight ain't no leader. All he does is get technical fouls for *****ing and throwing elbows while dancing around with a big goofy grin. Now with that said at least he has gotten to the finals. Unfortunatly the MVP is not what did you do a couple years ago. It's what did you do this year. Plus MVP is a regular season award and has little to do with getting to the finals.

now that is a bit much...the lack of respect to officials is a bit much but he is that team. if he or kobe were to win it there would be not complaint from me or many bulls fans.

Lolwut?
03-30-2011, 06:25 PM
Dwight ain't no leader. All he does is get technical fouls for *****ing and throwing elbows while dancing around with a big goofy grin. Now with that said at least he has gotten to the finals. Unfortunatly the MVP is not what did you do a couple years ago. It's what did you do this year. Plus MVP is a regular season award and has little to do with getting to the finals.

thats one bold statement. ( literally and figuratively)

finalverse
03-30-2011, 06:26 PM
I already addressed that earlier. I'm cool with Howard or Rose winning it. I just don't understand why people are dead set against Rose.

ramsizzle
03-30-2011, 06:30 PM
^ much of it is hate for the team, posters on here, and just Rose in general. People do not like newer stars taking the bright lights away from their guys.

shizzle09
03-30-2011, 06:42 PM
EVERY ONE of these comments isn't true. Rose has indeed broken out of his "shell". and Lebron has QUIT on more than one occasion. so if that is your argument please please find another...

He had a bad game 5 and oh my god Lebron must have quit. In the final game he went 27 points 19 boards 10 assists 3 steals. Never understood the whole he quit thing. no logic behind it just hate.

nitric
03-30-2011, 06:44 PM
MiamiHeraldHeat Miami Herald Heat
LeBron called Derrick Rose his MVP today.
2 minutes ago

I guess LeBron is a homer too.

Lolwut?
03-30-2011, 06:51 PM
thats what the media told him though you actually think he's gonna sit there and look at advanced stats and watch a lot of games.

finalverse
03-30-2011, 07:24 PM
Noah is out for the Bulls tonight, but no worries we have the great, insurmountable, incredbile Omer Asik to replace him. What's that....a billion games Rose has had to play without his starting center/power forward in the line up. They'll probalby lose tonight though.

Lolwut?
03-30-2011, 07:44 PM
over/under on him taking 30 shats !?

zn23
03-30-2011, 07:52 PM
Most essential part of 13th ranked offense, least essential part of 1st ranked defense.

finalverse
03-30-2011, 08:35 PM
Most essential part of 13th ranked offense, least essential part of 1st ranked defense.and most important player on the 2nd best team in the entire NBA.

Sasuke11
03-30-2011, 08:42 PM
having deng/boozer/noah is much better than just having durant. Those are three players who can easily get rose assists and those are three players that can take the pressure off rose.

Last night is a pretty good example. Durant was 0-8 in the 2nd half and westbrook scored 14 in the 4th against a very good blazers team to lead them to a win. Westbrook is every bit as good as rose. I do think rose is a great player but people are overrating him and underrating westbrook.

They are basically the same player. I do not think westbrook is in mvp consideration but i also dont think rose should be mvp. in consideration, yes. but the mvp, no. that is either howard or lebron

This is actually ironically hurting your argument - at least in terms of Rose not being the MVP. Before I continue I agree WB is underrated and a stud, but Rose is better that is just the plain and honest truth...as well as reality.

When you mention that WB led the thunder to a W in the fourth because KD wasn't scoring that is a prime example of what Rose doesn't have on his team. Someone that can pick up the slack when he isn't playing well - and this is no knock to Deng, but he can't create on his own and doesn't aide in taking the offensive load from Rose thus pretty much destroying this argument because I think everyone that has watched the Bulls this season would have a hard time remembering a game where Rose wasn't the reason we won in the fourth.

northsider
03-30-2011, 09:32 PM
For anyone interested here is IMO pretty good write up for Rose and explaining some of the stuff that Stat heads are going nuts over. Although I know asking people in the NBA forum to read something is crazy I think some will appreciate it.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/643843-derrick-rose-the-mvp-and-why-the-stat-geeks-dont-need-to-tear-their-eyes

ChI_ShIzzLe
03-30-2011, 11:19 PM
This is actually ironically hurting your argument - at least in terms of Rose not being the MVP. Before I continue I agree WB is underrated and a stud, but Rose is better that is just the plain and honest truth...as well as reality.

When you mention that WB led the thunder to a W in the fourth because KD wasn't scoring that is a prime example of what Rose doesn't have on his team. Someone that can pick up the slack when he isn't playing well - and this is no knock to Deng, but he can't create on his own and doesn't aide in taking the offensive load from Rose thus pretty much destroying this argument because I think everyone that has watched the Bulls this season would have a hard time remembering a game where Rose wasn't the reason we won in the fourth.

I love people who use 1 game to try and prove a point.

Baller1
03-30-2011, 11:45 PM
I love people who use 1 game to try and prove a point.

So Westbrook has only taken over one game? I see.

Maybe you should tune in to the game right now, maybe Westy can take over TWO games! :speechless:

ChI_ShIzzLe
03-30-2011, 11:49 PM
He hasn't taken over in 50 games, thats for sure.

AIRMAR72
03-31-2011, 12:32 AM
IF it WAS 10yrs ago no DOUT rose would be MVP but todays NBA is loaded with talent across the board BRON(to be fair bron cant get it every yr) rite now is MVP long with is mate WADE who i think will get it based on his history in the league compare to ROSE who has the greenlite to GUN and westbrook(old news to me) has the BEST PULL midrange jay IVE SEEN since YOU KNOW WHO plus he shoots it anywhere on da court Westbrook WILLZ ball in da basket with perfect form and spin on da ball and height on his jumps if durant get it together lakers BETTER lookout

ChI_ShIzzLe
03-31-2011, 12:36 AM
IF it WAS 10yrs ago no DOUT rose would be MVP but todays NBA is loaded with talent across the board BRON(to be fair bron cant get it every yr) rite now is MVP long with is mate WADE who i think will get it based on his history in the league compare to ROSE who has the greenlite to GUN and westbrook(old news to me) has the BEST PULL midrange jay IVE SEEN since YOU KNOW WHO plus he shoots it anywhere on da court Westbrook WILLZ ball in da basket with perfect form and spin on da ball and height on his jumps if durant get it together lakers BETTER lookout

:laugh:

stlbest5in2013
03-31-2011, 12:43 AM
can this forum go one day without the miami stain fans taking shots at bulls fans?

bulls fans this applies to you as well.

dont get on a stains level, we know the bulls are better, have better fans, and even when both teams sucked last year. you guys showed up to support you team, while heat fans were being stains. still are stains, they show up late and leave early, nothing better then staining.

i realize refer to you as as stains, miami fans, because you are, there are some real fans. but the number of stains to fans is not even close.

good night to this thread

chitownbulls
03-31-2011, 12:45 AM
for all those that say westbrook is better than rose, really? Let's see Westbrook be the focal point of a team, the guy that the offense is run through, the guy that is always looked for on every single possession, the guy that is single handedly carrying this team to a 13th ranked offense. He's the guy that carry's us on our backs in the 4th quarter and has gotten us many come from behind wins, and is the one that allows our teammates to prosper. You know what this has produced? a 50 win team and 1st seed in the eastern conference. ****ers.

stlbest5in2013
03-31-2011, 12:46 AM
IF it WAS 10yrs ago no DOUT rose would be MVP but todays NBA is loaded with talent across the board BRON(to be fair bron cant get it every yr) rite now is MVP long with is mate WADE who i think will get it based on his history in the league compare to ROSE who has the greenlite to GUN and westbrook(old news to me) has the BEST PULL midrange jay IVE SEEN since YOU KNOW WHO plus he shoots it anywhere on da court Westbrook WILLZ ball in da basket with perfect form and spin on da ball and height on his jumps if durant get it together lakers BETTER lookout

i lied, is there a translator in the house?

if this had grammar errors, and typos i could read it and understand it. i have no idea wtf this is.

Indi23
03-31-2011, 12:46 AM
Agree 100%. Rose is a lock as MVP. I think this is BS, but basically ESPN has rode his **** and created the buzz. Stan Van Gundy was 100% on point with his comments he made earlier. Its sad Dwight is not even getting looked at.

He is dominating the paint on BOTH ends, and is a Force on the boards. 23/14 and the best defensive player on the game.

The same buzz they gave Lebron when he was in Cleveland the last 5 years?
But lets face it they got tired of the Self Proclaimed "King" coming up short.

PS: I am not a Bulls fan. Derrick is the best player for his team and its shown. Not taking away from Dwight cuz i do agree he has been an absolute monster.

xxcubs22xx
03-31-2011, 01:58 AM
Rose isn't inefficient.

Baller1
03-31-2011, 02:43 AM
for all those that say westbrook is better than rose, really? Let's see Westbrook be the focal point of a team, the guy that the offense is run through, the guy that is always looked for on every single possession, the guy that is single handedly carrying this team to a 13th ranked offense. He's the guy that carry's us on our backs in the 4th quarter and has gotten us many come from behind wins, and is the one that allows our teammates to prosper. You know what this has produced? a 50 win team and 1st seed in the eastern conference. ****ers.

-No Durant, No Green, in Boston:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAPWgoc20OE

-Vs. New Jersey Nets with No Durant, No Green:

38 pts, 15 rbs, 9 assists, 3 steals (all 11 of Thunder points in 3rd overtime)

-No Durant, No Green, in Milwaukee:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8JDoS6hhmQ

redwhitenblue
03-31-2011, 03:45 AM
You forgot his actual numbers in the ones with youtube highlights. First vs Boston, 31 points on 9/21 shooting (43%), 6 assists, 7 TO's

Third game you mentioned, vs MIL: 5/18, 18 points, 6 assists and a -8 while he was on the floor.

Neither game did OKC break 90 points either.

Both games were won because they held their opponent below 85 points. I guess Durant is the reason OKC's D is mediocre based on those couple of games.


Oh, and you posted Green didn't play in that NJN 3 OT game? He did, he scored 37 points. And OKC scored 13 in OT, not 11. But that tells me that he wasn't the focal scoring point until that 3rd OT, heading into it he was at 27 points, while Green had 37 apparently. So really does that follow the logic of your post?

ChitownSports16
03-31-2011, 09:49 AM
You forgot his actual numbers in the ones with youtube highlights. First vs Boston, 31 points on 9/21 shooting (43%), 6 assists, 7 TO's

Third game you mentioned, vs MIL: 5/18, 18 points, 6 assists and a -8 while he was on the floor.

Neither game did OKC break 90 points either.

Both games were won because they held their opponent below 85 points. I guess Durant is the reason OKC's D is mediocre based on those couple of games.


Oh, and you posted Green didn't play in that NJN 3 OT game? He did, he scored 37 points. And OKC scored 13 in OT, not 11. But that tells me that he wasn't the focal scoring point until that 3rd OT, heading into it he was at 27 points, while Green had 37 apparently. So really does that follow the logic of your post?


but,but,but,but noooooo Westbrook>>>>>>>>>>Rose :facepalm:

You gotta love Rose Haters.

Baller1
03-31-2011, 10:37 AM
You forgot his actual numbers in the ones with youtube highlights. First vs Boston, 31 points on 9/21 shooting (43%), 6 assists, 7 TO's

Third game you mentioned, vs MIL: 5/18, 18 points, 6 assists and a -8 while he was on the floor.

Neither game did OKC break 90 points either.

Both games were won because they held their opponent below 85 points. I guess Durant is the reason OKC's D is mediocre based on those couple of games.


Oh, and you posted Green didn't play in that NJN 3 OT game? He did, he scored 37 points. And OKC scored 13 in OT, not 11. But that tells me that he wasn't the focal scoring point until that 3rd OT, heading into it he was at 27 points, while Green had 37 apparently. So really does that follow the logic of your post?

Ohhhhh... So you're saying Westbrook put up Rose-like statistics and won those games because the team defense played so well?! :laugh2:

Sounds a lot like you're golden boy, doesn't it?

Thanks for proving the point I've been trying to make all season.

redwhitenblue
03-31-2011, 01:51 PM
Ohhhhh... So you're saying Westbrook put up Rose-like statistics and won those games because the team defense played so well?! :laugh2:

Sounds a lot like you're golden boy, doesn't it?

Thanks for proving the point I've been trying to make all season.
No one's claiming Rose won them a game when he goes 5/18 for 18 points, nor do Bulls fans claim Rose has a good game when he has tons of TO's (like vs PHI).

And I see no comment on just flat out incorrect information with the 3OT game.

AddiX
03-31-2011, 01:58 PM
Westbrook and rose are both amazing players,

But one thing that can't even be argued is westbrooks defense is light years better than rose's will ever be.

BcEuAbRsS
03-31-2011, 02:11 PM
Westbrook and rose are both amazing players,

But one thing that can't even be argued is westbrooks defense is light years better than rose's will ever be.

Wrong... Rose has better defensive rating and defensive win shares are better...

bulldog312
03-31-2011, 02:13 PM
Westbrook and rose are both amazing players,

But one thing that can't even be argued is westbrooks defense is light years better than rose's will ever be.

You are just a homer/hater if you truly believe what you said to that extreme.

redwhitenblue
03-31-2011, 02:14 PM
Westbrook and rose are both amazing players,

But one thing that can't even be argued is westbrooks defense is light years better than rose's will ever be.
They were similar in the two prior years, with Westbrook slightly better. Rose is far superior this year and it's not close.

AIRMAR72
03-31-2011, 02:20 PM
i lied, is there a translator in the house?

if this had grammar errors, and typos i could read it and understand it. i have no idea wtf this is. WUTEVA!!... trailerpark BOY!!!

Baller1
03-31-2011, 02:58 PM
No one's claiming Rose won them a game when he goes 5/18 for 18 points, nor do Bulls fans claim Rose has a good game when he has tons of TO's (like vs PHI).

And I see no comment on just flat out incorrect information with the 3OT game.

You all claim Rose leads the Bulls to wins every single night, in which we retort that it's the teams defense that wins the games. But now when a similar situation with Westbrook occurs, he just had a "bad game" and the team defense wins it for us. Enough with the blatant hypocrisy, my god.

Oh, so Jeff Green played, my apologies. He REALLY takes the attention of the opposing team. No wonder Westbrook dominated! :laugh2:

In other words, you're saying that Jeff Green attracts more attention than Luol Deng or Carlos Boozer. You really are making this too easy for me with your hypocritical and contradicting statements.


Wrong... Rose has better defensive rating and defensive win shares are better...

Both statistics are complete products of team defense. Nice try.


They were similar in the two prior years, with Westbrook slightly better. Rose is far superior this year and it's not close.

Similar? Do you really believe some of the **** you say sometimes? Wow.

Far superior?! This keeps getting better and better. Like I said, the advanced defensive statistics are products of strong team defense.

Maybe we should talk about the Bulls being significantly worse defensively with Rose on the court (probably the least valuable defensive player on Chicago).

Pierzynski4Prez
03-31-2011, 03:10 PM
You all claim Rose leads the Bulls to wins every single night, in which we retort that it's the teams defense that wins the games. But now when a similar situation with Westbrook occurs, he just had a "bad game" and the team defense wins it for us. Enough with the blatant hypocrisy, my god.

Oh, so Jeff Green played, my apologies. He REALLY takes the attention of the opposing team. No wonder Westbrook dominated! :laugh2:

In other words, you're saying that Jeff Green attracts more attention than Luol Deng or Carlos Boozer. You really are making this too easy for me with your hypocritical and contradicting statements.


If you feel that way, then why would you even put "Without Durant or Jeff Green" in your post above? Why even mention Green then? You did that, not RWB. You were trying to prove a point about Westbrook being able to lead without Durant or Green, but when pointed out that Green played, you downplay him. Seems a little hypocritical, don't you think.

TylerSL
03-31-2011, 03:27 PM
he has a point, but Rose is the MVP because without him, the Bulls are probably a 45 win team at best and like a 6 seed at best, and with him the Bulls are a 60 win team and probably the 1 seed. Thats why Rose is MVP.

Baller1
03-31-2011, 03:31 PM
If you feel that way, then why would you even put "Without Durant or Jeff Green" in your post above? Why even mention Green then? You did that, not RWB. You were trying to prove a point about Westbrook being able to lead without Durant or Green, but when pointed out that Green played, you downplay him. Seems a little hypocritical, don't you think.

There's nothing hypocritical about what I said. The way he presented his statement, it seemed as if he was making the inference that Green did play and Westbrook didn't "dominate by himself" like "Rose does".

But that's beside the point regardless, way to digress.

Pierzynski4Prez
03-31-2011, 03:39 PM
There's nothing hypocritical about what I said. The way he presented his statement, it seemed as if he was making the inference that Green did play and Westbrook didn't "dominate by himself" like "Rose does".

But that's beside the point regardless, way to digress.

You made a point to show 3 games that Westbrook "dominated" in which Durant AND Green didn't play. Am I wrong?


-No Durant, No Green, in Boston:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAPWgoc20OE

-Vs. New Jersey Nets with No Durant, No Green:

38 pts, 15 rbs, 9 assists, 3 steals (all 11 of Thunder points in 3rd overtime)

-No Durant, No Green, in Milwaukee:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8JDoS6hhmQ

You listed No Green all 3 games.



Oh, and you posted Green didn't play in that NJN 3 OT game? He did, he scored 37 points. And OKC scored 13 in OT, not 11. But that tells me that he wasn't the focal scoring point until that 3rd OT, heading into it he was at 27 points, while Green had 37 apparently. So really does that follow the logic of your post?

But when RWB points out that Green actually dropped 37 in one of the games you mention, what do you do?



Oh, so Jeff Green played, my apologies. He REALLY takes the attention of the opposing team. No wonder Westbrook dominated! :laugh2:

In other words, you're saying that Jeff Green attracts more attention than Luol Deng or Carlos Boozer. You really are making this too easy for me with your hypocritical and contradicting statements.



You try to downplay Jeff Green's impact on a game. A game in which he scored 37 nonetheless.

I'm not trying to get into it here with you. I just find it funny how you tried to prove a point, but not only did you partially post false stats, but also that your point was completely irrelevant in 33% of the games shown.

Baller1
03-31-2011, 03:45 PM
You made a point to show 3 games that Westbrook "dominated" in which Durant AND Green didn't play. Am I wrong?



You listed No Green all 3 games.



But when RWB points out that Green actually dropped 37 in one of the games you mention, what do you do?




You try to downplay Jeff Green's impact on a game. A game in which he scored 37 nonetheless.

I'm not trying to get into it here with you. I just find it funny how you tried to prove a point, but not only did you partially post false stats, but also that your point was completely irrelevant in 33% of the games shown.

The underlying crux of my post was to point out that Durant did not play in those games, Green was just added to simply strengthen argument. He played against NJ, that's fine. Nonetheless, he was a third option, BEHIND Westbrook. The point is that Westbrook led the team. Fair enough?

Pierzynski4Prez
03-31-2011, 03:55 PM
The underlying crux of my post was to point out that Durant did not play in those games, Green was just added to simply strengthen argument. He played against NJ, that's fine. Nonetheless, he was a third option, BEHIND Westbrook. The point is that Westbrook led the team. Fair enough?

Fair enough. Just next time you try to prove a point, have your stats right, and your facts straight. Because not doing so will simply weaken your argument. Again, I'm not getting into this westbrook vs rose crap. Just voicing what I saw from reading the last page of the thread.

redwhitenblue
03-31-2011, 04:37 PM
You all claim Rose leads the Bulls to wins every single night, in which we retort that it's the teams defense that wins the games. But now when a similar situation with Westbrook occurs, he just had a "bad game" and the team defense wins it for us. Enough with the blatant hypocrisy, my god.

Oh, so Jeff Green played, my apologies. He REALLY takes the attention of the opposing team. No wonder Westbrook dominated! :laugh2:

In other words, you're saying that Jeff Green attracts more attention than Luol Deng or Carlos Boozer. You really are making this too easy for me with your hypocritical and contradicting statements.



Both statistics are complete products of team defense. Nice try.



Similar? Do you really believe some of the **** you say sometimes? Wow.

Far superior?! This keeps getting better and better. Like I said, the advanced defensive statistics are products of strong team defense.

Maybe we should talk about the Bulls being significantly worse defensively with Rose on the court (probably the least valuable defensive player on Chicago).
Who claims he leads us to victory every night?

And you brought up Green, not me.


And so what are you basing Westbrook's D being better than Rose's from? It's not statistics, so what are you drawing it from?

Talk about hypocricy, "These stats say xxxxx>Rose! But those statistics don't count that say Rose>xxxxx!"