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Idontcare
03-27-2011, 02:59 PM
Kobe
Shaq
Tim Duncan
Lebron
Garnett
Dwade
Durant
Rose

koetravis
03-27-2011, 03:00 PM
kobe or tim. both class acts. and both will work their butts off.

Idontcare
03-27-2011, 03:02 PM
I'll take kobe 5 championships and counting nuff said
Then Tim Duncan greatest Pf to ever play

uchiha
03-27-2011, 03:06 PM
LBJ or Shaq

WrongIslander
03-27-2011, 03:07 PM
Tim Duncan.

Other seems a bit pointless but if we are allowed "Other" then I'll take erm JORDAN.

Idontcare
03-27-2011, 03:12 PM
Tim Duncan.

Other seems a bit pointless but if we are allowed "Other" then I'll take erm JORDAN.

That's why I put players currently playing

WrongIslander
03-27-2011, 03:15 PM
That's why I put players currently playing

My bad. Watching the Elite Eight while on here.

Still Duncan.

NYKalltheway
03-27-2011, 03:18 PM
Duncan or Shaq

marvILLous
03-27-2011, 03:20 PM
shaq daddyyyy

TO to the CHI
03-27-2011, 03:22 PM
I took Duncan, but thought long and hard about Kobe. Then as I thought about it more, I think I would have to consider Shaq. Knowing what we know now, those three are way ahead of any others on the list (though I suppose it is possible that others could get there). TD is a consummate winner and professional (though he has always been in a good situation) and would be terrific to build around. Kobe has proven to be a winner and my only concern would be his maturity in the early years, but perhaps that could be addressed by bringing in a mentor early on. Shaq at 21 and in the first decade of his career was by far the biggest force in the league. If someone could have motivated him to work on his weaknesses then he could have been the best center ever. I like this thread. Lots of food for thought.

I stick with TD though in the end. Consummate winner, arguably the best power forward ever, and without having to hope for any change from him, I know that I can count on him to be a leader and a solid professional every day.

ManRam
03-27-2011, 03:22 PM
Duncan or Diesel. I went with Shaq.

Kobe is third, then LeBron. I really want to have them tied, but LeBron has to win. I can get into to all the supporting cast malarkey, but it does come down to that.

KG, Wade, Rose and then Durant round out the rest.

Ollie Tabooger
03-27-2011, 03:22 PM
In order:

1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. Kobe
4. Lebron
5. Garnett
6. Rose
7. Wade/Durant

nycericanguy
03-27-2011, 03:23 PM
Duncan, plays hard on both ends, doesn't complain, doesn't yearn for the spotlight, great work ethic. You really can't say much bad about him.

Shaq was probably more dominant though.

John Walls Era
03-27-2011, 03:23 PM
Why is Rose there instead of Chris Paul (I actually like both)?

Give me Duncan, Lebron or Shaq in any order you want.

Ollie Tabooger
03-27-2011, 03:24 PM
^^ wow manram put almost exactly what you have

goose15
03-27-2011, 03:24 PM
Shaq easy, biggest beast ever..

shep33
03-27-2011, 03:24 PM
You can't really lose with Kobe, Shaq or Timmy.

Bullsfan22
03-27-2011, 03:25 PM
Tim Duncan

heyman321
03-27-2011, 03:27 PM
Shaq or Duncan, too hard to decide. The rest aren't even close.

nycericanguy
03-27-2011, 03:29 PM
I think you have to take Duncan or Shaq, just like you have to take Howard over say Wade today. Big men that can dominate on both ends and shoot close to 60% are just much harder to find.

210Don
03-27-2011, 03:29 PM
timmy

Idontcare
03-27-2011, 03:30 PM
Another reason why I would take Kobe over anyone is because of his durability... If not it would be shaq...
Kobe will probably go down as a top 3 player ever possibly second with 1-2 more rings

Currently lebron and Kobe r tied in votes I would be shocked it learn gets more votes then Kobe
Kobe shaq and Duncan should really easily be the top 3 in this poll

Idontcare
03-27-2011, 03:32 PM
Shaq or Duncan, too hard to decide. The rest aren't even close.

So no Kobe even though he's considered the greatest player to lace them up since Jordan?

VRP723
03-27-2011, 03:32 PM
Gimme LeBron

J4KOP99
03-27-2011, 03:33 PM
Shaq.

Then Duncan or Kobe

Then LBJ or Garnett



Rose is on this list haha?

Mane
03-27-2011, 03:37 PM
Depends on what Lebron accomplishes in the long run really.

I'd probably take shaq though. Having a young dominant big man is just awesome. Followed by Kobe, followed by Bron, followed by Duncan

Ezio
03-27-2011, 03:37 PM
Duncan.

NYtilIdie
03-27-2011, 03:39 PM
Shaq at 21 in todays league would be a mutha ***kin monsta!

nickdymez
03-27-2011, 03:45 PM
Shaq, Kobe, Duncan,Garnett, Wade...

I chose the winners

What?
03-27-2011, 03:45 PM
Shaq with Dwigt being the next best C:speechless:

after that either Duncan, Lebron or Garnett

Rose, Durant, and Wade aren't on the same level of the others

BallIsAll
03-27-2011, 03:46 PM
id take KG hes a game changer and a great low post player.

WrongIslander
03-27-2011, 03:47 PM
For those picking Shaq, he'd be immense for all of a season or two and then he'd be gone.

Duncan has the skills, the heart, the longevity and the loyalty.

There's only one man for the job.

GeekInThePink
03-27-2011, 03:47 PM
Durant, I'm probably gonna get a lot of flack for this choice, but I think he's an exceptional teammate, teriffic scorer and a really good rebounder. I would love to have him.

effen5
03-27-2011, 03:50 PM
hands down tim duncan

Chi City23
03-27-2011, 03:50 PM
If I'm the GM I take Duncan with Kobe a VERY close 2nd. If I'm an owner I take Kobe. More $$$ having a player like Kobe rather than Duncan being the franchise player.

knightstemplar
03-27-2011, 03:51 PM
kobe - would last longer than shaq and duncan, plus shaq would leave

D1JM
03-27-2011, 03:52 PM
Easy. Duncan or shaq.

Bravo95
03-27-2011, 04:02 PM
Life is much easier when you have a dominant low post player. Shaq or Duncan.

HouRealCoach
03-27-2011, 04:04 PM
Tim Duncan

M.Bibby2.0
03-27-2011, 04:05 PM
Good big men are harder to come by.
I said shaq, but KG and TD are tied probably for a very close second. KG needs more recognition here, he was a beast in his prime, i hate to admit it.

nitric
03-27-2011, 04:09 PM
Man oh man. I cannot decide between Shaq or Duncan. I'm gonna have to go with Timmy.

For me>
Duncan
Shaq
Kobe
Garnett
LeBron
Wade
Rose
Durant

I feel like Rose and Durant don't belong in this convo as both of them are TWENTY TWO years old. They have sooo much left and can either become as great as the others or surpass them

nitric
03-27-2011, 04:11 PM
Shaq with Dwigt being the next best C:speechless:

after that either Duncan, Lebron or Garnett

Rose, Durant, and Wade aren't on the same level of the others

Wade actually has a finals MVP trophy and has been amazing. If anything, LeBron, Rose, Durant don't belong with the rest (but LeBron does)

justinnum1
03-27-2011, 04:14 PM
shaq
timmy
wade
kobe
lebron
garnett
durant
dirk
howard
rose

Chi City23
03-27-2011, 04:25 PM
Good big men are harder to come by.
I said shaq, but KG and TD are tied probably for a very close second. KG needs more recognition here, he was a beast in his prime, i hate to admit it.

KG was a beast but where did that get him in the playoffs?? Kobe over KG and it's really not even close imo. KG is probably last on my list.

GodsSon
03-27-2011, 04:27 PM
Easily Shaq. The guy beasted on every big man in the early 2000's including Duncan.

Spiggity_ace
03-27-2011, 04:29 PM
gotta b timmy d or lebron for me, weith all due respect to kobe, d rose and of course shaq

Tarheels23
03-27-2011, 04:32 PM
Why are Durant and Rose on this list...

Shaq no doubt

Niro
03-27-2011, 04:35 PM
In order:

1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. Kobe
4. Lebron
5. Garnett
6. Rose
7. Wade/Durant


this looks good to me

but there is quite a big margin between the top 4 and the rest

hot_ball86
03-27-2011, 04:48 PM
tim duncan- 10/10 very good on both ends.. never complain much to the RIPs... (lol) good teamate, loyal to the org and fans.. never heard him talking garbage.. (good example for kids) top choice becuase of his character and the way he play ofcourse.
kobe- 10/10 very good on both ends. hate losing but complian much.. he makes lots of money for your team. not a quiter and hard working
shaq- 10/10 beast in the paint. big size and fouls hard.. i like that attitude. and as funny as always...
lebron 9.5/10- very good player. fast, good passer, hard to stop in transition play. good on both ends. only thing that hate u most? if he cant win he quits and dont care about what happens to your team. ahhggg... think about it.. will u take him? for sure he will be last in the list for me.. but so hard to resist how good he is...
the rest on the list are so good as well. thanks... i have a feeling your agree with me on lebron side... hehehehe

FOBolous
03-27-2011, 04:53 PM
For me...it would be either Shaq or Tim Duncan. i voted for shaq. having a dominant big men on your team almost guaranttees you at least one championship. plus good big men are a dime a dozen. not to mention both Shaq and TD have tons of championships on their resume.

of all the players on the list...i will least likely pick Lebron James. His ego is too big, and he seems to have a problem with playing well with others. i don't want a potential cancer or primadonna on my team. i want a star player that can lead my team without causing drama. I also want a player that's coachable and of all the players on the list, lebron is the least coachable.

knicksfan42
03-27-2011, 04:55 PM
No particular order.

Duncan
Shaq
Garnett
LeBron

lakeshow3peat
03-27-2011, 04:57 PM
As a Lakers fan and respect kobe admire his game but i have to go with Tim Duncan Then Shaq cause of their position down low and thats all they need to focus on while kobe and others have to make perimeter shots and get good looks .

chicago lulz
03-27-2011, 05:03 PM
Would be between Kobe, Shaq, Tim for me. No Howard on the list?

Il Mago50
03-27-2011, 05:16 PM
If we're talking about taking them from the age of 21 in today's NBA, I don't get anyone that doesn't take Shaq. He should take 90% of the votes, with the occasional Duncan or Lebron/Kobe.

Shaq was probably the most dominating force the NBA has ever seen...ever. The guy was an uber athletic 7'1, 300 lbs who already had most of the post moves big men learn at his disposal by the time he got to the NBA. You put him in the middle, draft or sign a great young guard and put some shooters and a couple hard nosed defenders like a Shane Battier and you have 3-5 championships easily.

Plus, if you got him at 21 and you forced him to work on his free throw shooting like the one year with the Lakers with the expert shooting coach where he ended up shooting over 60%, and you have a guy that might average 30+ PPG, 15 RPG, 4 BPG, 3 APG and probably wins the MVP each and every year. Kobe couldn't do it on his own and you'd need a very good team around him, same with everyone on that list save for maybe Duncan who can dominate the game in his prime from his position and wouldn't need as much quality to win championships, taking nothing away from Gino and Parker. But if you put Shaq on the Magic right now instead of D12, they win it all. You put Shaq on Denver instead of Nene, and they win it all. You put Shaq on the Raptors instead of Amir with Derozen, Bargnani, etc. and they make East finals potentially. He is the best cornerstone piece there ever will be.

It's Shaq, end of discussion.

AIRMAR72
03-27-2011, 05:25 PM
21 yr old KOBE was pure athletic garbage(missing dunks and layups every other game) his IQ was below average he had NO real post game like wade and bron tim duncan or shaq would be my pick

BranWingss
03-27-2011, 05:26 PM
1) Duncan
2) Shaq
3) Kobe
4) LeBron
5) Garnett

Sixerlover
03-27-2011, 05:29 PM
Shaq EASY. EASY EASY EASY

m26555
03-27-2011, 05:30 PM
Voted for Garnett before I saw Shaq on the list. Whoops. My top five:

1. Shaq
2. Garnett
3. Duncan
4. Kobe
5. Wade


this looks good to me

but there is quite a big margin between the top 4 and the rest
Not really, considering a prime Garnett is better than LeBron. I wanna know how in the WORLD people are ranking LeBron ahead of KG...seriously.

the_jon
03-27-2011, 05:35 PM
1) Shaq
2) Monta Ellis

The rest don't matter.

dwadefan03
03-27-2011, 05:35 PM
shaq duh

Baller1
03-27-2011, 05:41 PM
Shaq.

J-Relo
03-27-2011, 05:41 PM
Give me Shaq.

swirl54
03-27-2011, 05:42 PM
Do we know how good they are going to be as in are now? Or is it a guess on their ceiling?

SACNYY
03-27-2011, 05:54 PM
Kobe.

LanceUpperCut
03-27-2011, 06:00 PM
1-Shaq
2&3-Kobe/TD can't choose between them
4-LBJ
5&6-Dwight/KG
7-Wade
8-Nash
9-Dirk
10-Durant or CP3

unleashthebeast
03-27-2011, 06:17 PM
Duncan or Shaq

this. u gotta go with the bigs. i think imma go woth shaq though, more dominant

Telios9
03-27-2011, 06:18 PM
Shaq no doubt!

Idontcare
03-27-2011, 06:28 PM
No particular order.

Duncan
Shaq
Garnett
LeBron

Garnett and lebron over Kobe??

Idontcare
03-27-2011, 06:30 PM
Do we know how good they are going to be as in are now? Or is it a guess on their ceiling?

Doesn't matter but i would probably go with what they have accomplished so far

Idontcare
03-27-2011, 06:32 PM
21 yr old KOBE was pure athletic garbage(missing dunks and layups every other game) his IQ was below average he had NO real post game like wade and bron tim duncan or shaq would be my pick

:facepalm:

Ray
03-27-2011, 07:34 PM
im surprised there is no mention of Jason Kidd, although I would take Duncan/Kobe/Lebron/Garnett

nickdymez
03-27-2011, 07:47 PM
Voted for Garnett before I saw Shaq on the list. Whoops. My top five:

1. Shaq
2. Garnett
3. Duncan
4. Kobe
5. Wade


Not really, considering a prime Garnett is better than LeBron. I wanna know how in the WORLD people are ranking LeBron ahead of KG...seriously.

That was the exact same thing i was thinking. lmao.. I just didnt want to say nothing because we know how people get here when you say anything disparaging about Lebron, "The greatest man to ever walk the face of this earth".

thekmp211
03-27-2011, 07:54 PM
shaq is my pick, and im partial to KG over duncan but its essentially a wash.

rabzouz 96
03-27-2011, 08:39 PM
shaq, duncan, lebron

Raidaz4Life
03-27-2011, 08:41 PM
I'll take Shaq hands down.

Not only for dominance but for longevity. He is 39 and still a very solid center.

Bruno
03-27-2011, 08:44 PM
I'd take Bryant or Duncan. Shaqs work ethic and shenanigans are enough for me to pass on him, even if his peak was the most dominant.

Duncan is the greatest PF of all time and Kobe is one of two SG's in the history of the league who you can build around and win multiple titles with.

Vidball
03-27-2011, 09:28 PM
Kobe...you'll get two decades of quality play, defensive intensity, and a chance to chase rings if you have a solid supporting cast around him.

Chacarron
03-27-2011, 09:53 PM
The Big Aristotle.

netsgiantsyanks
03-27-2011, 09:55 PM
tim mother****ing duncan.

netsgiantsyanks
03-27-2011, 09:55 PM
shaq as a close second.

Hellcrooner
03-27-2011, 09:57 PM
Not on the list Magic Johnson.

From teh list DUncan hands down.

Yes Shaq may be the unstopable force but he is also the unestopable butt that wants to sit in many differente chairs.

So id rather have Duncan play his entire career for my team ONE sit only.

CB4AB7VC15
03-27-2011, 10:06 PM
Shaquille
Duncan and Kobe
Lbj
Howard

NYKalltheway
03-27-2011, 10:08 PM
I remember when Garnett first came in the league, I had thought that he was a SF that could play PF as well, never saw him as a low post scorer (back then)
I guess that's also a reason why he's not recognized as much as he should on the poll

Khalifa21
03-27-2011, 10:12 PM
1a. Shaquille O'Neal
1b. Tim Duncan
3. LeBron James
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Kobe Bryant
6. Dwyane Wade
7. Kevin Durant
8. Derrick Rose

Dade County
03-27-2011, 10:12 PM
Damn why did you have to put shaq on the poll, I always pick wade for stuff like this.

Shaq is the only choice people.

Daze9900
03-27-2011, 10:17 PM
In order:

1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. Kobe
4. Lebron
5. Garnett
6. Rose
7. Wade/Durant

This. I might put LBJ over Kobe. LBJ proven that he could take a bunch of scrubs and carry them on his back. I don't know if 21 year old Kobe was ready or able to do that.

allSUAVE
03-27-2011, 10:19 PM
Shaq with out question .hard to find a dominant center now a days .and the center is the most important position in basketball next to a point guard .Trust me I know ,watching the Knicks get out rebounded by 20 every game I know.

Time2Dieeee
03-27-2011, 10:20 PM
i went with other and picked Brian "white mamba" Scal! the man is a well rounded marksman and assassin! he also has championship experience, not to mention the greatest bench player of all time! crowds also love him

i picked shaq lol

daricoliver
03-27-2011, 10:37 PM
I was close to saying Shaq or Duncan but it always bothered me that neither shot free throws very good, especially Shaq, including in the clutch. I chose Kobe and would probably say LBJ next.

Shaq was the most dominant player on this list, but that is not what the question is.

RaiderLakersA's
03-28-2011, 01:28 AM
Shaq. I'm old school and I know the best teams are built around a dominant big man. No one on that list would be more dominant than a 21 year old Shaq would be. Especially in the current NBA.

For everyone else on that list, coaching, system and supporting cast matters. Would Duncan be as great if Don Nelson or Dantoni was his coach? Probably not. Or Kobe in, say, a Van Gundy system. Either Van Gundy. Probably not dominating this year at 21, even with D. Howard as his center, although that combination would eventually get a ring. And we're already seeing how coaching, system, and supporting cast affects LeBron, Wade and Bosh. Still good, but not DOMINANT like a 21 year old Shaq would be with any coach, with any system, no matter who the supporting cast is.

Jewelz0376
03-28-2011, 01:40 AM
For me it was between Shaq, Duncan, and Kobe... I'm not a huge Shaq fan because he's lazy and will let himself get outta shape..

So it was between Kobe and Duncan....Can't go wrong with either one, but I went with Kobe simply because I'm bias lol

LA_Raiders
03-28-2011, 01:46 AM
1-Kobe = 5 Rings
2-TD = 4 Rings
3-Shaq = 4 Rings
4-Wade = 1 Ring
5-KG = 1 Ring

Its all about winning, so i go with the best at it.... The Black Mamba!!!

JLynn943
03-28-2011, 01:56 AM
I went with Shaq. A center as dominant as he was is just too rare. Duncan is a close second, but no one else comes close to them. You can get good production out of every other position relatively easily.

dikimbemutumbo
03-28-2011, 02:11 AM
SHaq. If shaq at 21 came into todyas league, he would dominate on another level. A prime shaq in todays league shouldnt be legal.

TmacBryant
03-28-2011, 02:14 AM
Kobe or Shaq definitely. I would pick Shaq over Kobe if he kept himself in shape...

MickeyMgl
03-28-2011, 02:36 AM
For those picking Shaq, he'd be immense for all of a season or two and then he'd be gone.


I don't know about "gone", but he'd start mailing it in. I wouldn't want to bank on such an underachiever.

I'll say this. If I were to just look at these guys at 21, then it'd probably be Shaq. However, if I could know then about them (at their respective 21s) what I know now, it would not be Shaq based on his slack attitude and unprofessional approach to the game.

If I want a guy who's going to give my franchise every penny's worth of effort, work, professionalism, in-season and off-season.... an unmatched will to win and to work for it.... an overachiever with actual talent.... and almost as important as winning, he's going to keep TV ratings up, arenas full, and merchandise moving....

.... then it's Kobe.

Evolution23
03-28-2011, 02:38 AM
Duncan had a huge impact right out the gate. MVP type numbers his first season. He was a hell of a player back then and is still a great 2nd -3rd option at his age. Best overall game at 21 was with duncan.

Evolution23
03-28-2011, 02:39 AM
1-Kobe = 5 Rings
2-TD = 4 Rings
3-Shaq = 4 Rings
4-Wade = 1 Ring
5-KG = 1 Ring

Its all about winning, so i go with the best at it.... The Black Mamba!!!

stop it

MickeyMgl
03-28-2011, 02:40 AM
Kobe or Shaq definitely. I would pick Shaq over Kobe if he kept himself in shape...

Big if.

IF I could take any of them at 21, and IF all other IFs were not IFs but merely stood as they were, then I wouldn't take Shaq, because the fact is he DIDN'T keep himself in shape.

abe_froman
03-28-2011, 02:46 AM
timmy.shaq was a force in his prime but was unmotivated and his ego got in the way much of the time.timmy has the right attitude to build around and almost as dominating a physical presence

Wade>You
03-28-2011, 02:50 AM
Shaq because it's the only pick that Heat/Bulls/Celtics/Laker fans can agree on and everyone else just votes for their team's guy.

Btw, what's Rose and Durant doing on this list of legends? Talk about skipping the entire process it takes to become great in the NBA. At least Rose.

MickeyMgl
03-28-2011, 02:55 AM
Shaq was probably the most dominating force the NBA has ever seen...ever. The guy was an uber athletic 7'1, 300 lbs who already had most of the post moves big men learn at his disposal by the time he got to the NBA. You put him in the middle, draft or sign a great young guard and put some shooters and a couple hard nosed defenders like a Shane Battier and you have 3-5 championships easily.

Plus, if you got him at 21 and you forced him to work on his free throw shooting like the one year with the Lakers with the expert shooting coach where he ended up shooting over 60%, and you have a guy that might average 30+ PPG, 15 RPG, 4 BPG, 3 APG and probably wins the MVP each and every year. Kobe couldn't do it on his own and you'd need a very good team around him


???

Shaq couldn't do it on his own. That first highlighted portion gives the impression that you recognized this.

TRF929
03-28-2011, 03:10 AM
I can understand Shaq but Kobe I can't. He hasn't won a ring without a dominant big, so I don't think I would put him above Duncan or Shaq. With that said I chose Duncan

brodawgs
03-28-2011, 03:15 AM
1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. Lebron
4. Kobe
5. Garnett
6. Durant
7. Wade
8. Rose

Shaq's dominance is just unrivaled in this era, a true monster in the middle, one of the greatest ever. Duncan is close behind with his intangibles, work ethic, and attitude, he would be the go to guy and help others around him. What Kobe brings to the table is mimicked everywhere, obviously no one does it as good as him, but almost every team has a poor man's Kobe who will do the job, that's why I have him behind Lebron. Garnett's defense is outstanding, his offense is good, can't have him higher than those who are. Wade is alot like Kobe but minus some defensive capabilities. Durant and Rose are stellar, but if you build a team around them, the supporting cast would have to be pretty good to be a major threat every year to win the title.

Bruno
03-28-2011, 03:34 AM
Shaq is winning this poll with 43% of the vote.

I just think it's interesting that the bulk of the voters would want to start a franchise with a guy who's played for six teams, half of which he left while still a top ten player. That's not to say he wasn't the most dominant at his peak.

Wouldn't loyalty be a priority for you if you were trying to build a team around a certain player? He's no good for you if he leaves. That's in part why I give the edge to Duncan or Bryant here.

bolts4ever
03-28-2011, 03:34 AM
the reality is that Kobe wasnt yet great at 21 so I would go

1.Shaq
2.Tim Duncan
3.Kobe
4. D-Wade
5.Lebron
6.D-rose

danielleighgill
03-28-2011, 03:37 AM
Gotta go with Kobe. He's the most competitive, has the most rings, and is the best closer of anyone listed. Everyone listed is supremely talented but Kobe is the guy with the killer instinct.

GREATNESS ONE
03-28-2011, 03:39 AM
Shaq, if motivated and works his *** off his entire career, if not. Mamba.

ElMarroAfamado
03-28-2011, 03:42 AM
in this order

1. Shaq
2. Kobe
3. Duncan
4. Rose
5. Garnett
6. Wade
7. Durant










Lebrick.

JPHX
03-28-2011, 03:48 AM
Shaq in his prime was nasty. ill take the diesel.

IversonIsKrazy
03-28-2011, 03:59 AM
between Duncan n Shaq for me. Of-course Duncan was a class-act, and more consistent or should I say lasted longer? But Shaq is the most dominant. It's a toss up between those 2. Then Kobe

1. Duncan
2. Shaq
3. Kobe
4. Garnett
5. LeBron
6. Wade
7. Rose
8. DUrrant

Duncan = Donkey
03-28-2011, 04:02 AM
Any response which isn't Shaq or Duncan is just wrong.

In saying that i chose other: Steve Nash

Mcdoh
03-28-2011, 04:11 AM
kobe or shaq

Bruno
03-28-2011, 04:19 AM
Any response which isn't Shaq or Duncan is just wrong.

In saying that i chose other: Steve Nash

If it were asking if "all these players were 31" I'd probably take Nash. he's is like an aged wine.

kArSoN RyDaH
03-28-2011, 04:24 AM
owner-kobe
gm-shaq
coach-duncan
player-lebron

MickeyMgl
03-28-2011, 04:27 AM
21 yr old KOBE was pure athletic garbage(missing dunks and layups every other game) his IQ was below average he had NO real post game like wade and bron tim duncan or shaq would be my pick

21 year old Kobe was 1st-team All-Defense and 2nd-team All-NBA, but the point isn't about having that player for only that year anyway.

MickeyMgl
03-28-2011, 04:31 AM
Do we know how good they are going to be as in are now? Or is it a guess on their ceiling?

I think that's a pivotal question.

MickeyMgl
03-28-2011, 04:34 AM
I'll take Shaq hands down.

Not only for dominance but for longevity. He is 39 and still a very solid center.

As opposed to gas or liquid?

MickeyMgl
03-28-2011, 04:39 AM
This. I might put LBJ over Kobe. LBJ proven that he could take a bunch of scrubs and carry them on his back. I don't know if 21 year old Kobe was ready or able to do that.

Whenever called upon to do so for stretches, he did. 2000 WCF Game 7, 2000 Finals Game 4...

MickeyMgl
03-28-2011, 04:42 AM
Shaq. I'm old school and I know the best teams are built around a dominant big man. No one on that list would be more dominant than a 21 year old Shaq would be. Especially in the current NBA.

For everyone else on that list, coaching, system and supporting cast matters. Would Duncan be as great if Don Nelson or Dantoni was his coach? Probably not. Or Kobe in, say, a Van Gundy system. Either Van Gundy. Probably not dominating this year at 21, even with D. Howard as his center, although that combination would eventually get a ring. And we're already seeing how coaching, system, and supporting cast affects LeBron, Wade and Bosh. Still good, but not DOMINANT like a 21 year old Shaq would be with any coach, with any system, no matter who the supporting cast is.

No doubt Shaq would dominate, but without the right team and the right coach, his teams would get swept out of the playoffs as they so frequently did.

MickeyMgl
03-28-2011, 04:48 AM
I can understand Shaq but Kobe I can't. He hasn't won a ring without a dominant big, so I don't think I would put him above Duncan or Shaq. With that said I chose Duncan

Gasol = dominant?
:no:

sharqstealth
03-28-2011, 04:49 AM
SHAQ! He's the most dominant ever!

nolin
03-28-2011, 05:00 AM
Went with other AKA MJ cause he is the GOAT..

alencp3
03-28-2011, 06:20 AM
1.shaq






2.lebron
3.duncan

Sportfan
03-28-2011, 06:33 AM
Shaq without a doubt, Center is the most shallow position and Shaq was a beast at that age

KG21
03-28-2011, 06:51 AM
Shaq and then KG!

rapjuicer06
03-28-2011, 08:17 AM
its kind of hard to decide. shaq hasn't played with out a dominant wing player, duncan hasn't won anything since robinson, kobe hasn't won anything without a big..in fact had a losing record with out one..lebron very hard to put a team around him to be honest. rose...shouldn't be in here if howard isn't cuz i'd take howard over rose/durant/wade. and garnett...he's just a ******** and i can't stand him but i'd put him right after duncan right after shaq.

1. shaq
2. duncan
3. garnett
4. kobe
5. lebron
6. howard
the rest you have listed

JasonJohnHorn
03-28-2011, 08:22 AM
Tim Duncan is the only guy on the list who has made the playoff every year, and has always had his team in contention.

Kobe may have more rings, but three of them came with the help of one other guy on this list, Shaq won four, and he had somebody on this list for every one of them.

Duncan has won four and been in contention EVERY year, and he has never played with any of these guys.

Plus, Duncan is a class act, loyal, team-first mentality, excellent defender and rebounder, great O game, works hard and is a great mentor.

I honestly can understand why anybody would possibly pick anybody else on this list over Duncan.

Heediot
03-28-2011, 08:36 AM
Wow Tim Duncan and its not even close.

Shaq and Kobe had each other to make their ships much easier.

Even now, look how the spurs have struggles with a declining duncan out of the lineup.

Dude was ready to win from the get-go.

JordansBulls
03-28-2011, 09:00 AM
Duncan for me. He took a team that never won anything to 4 titles, while the other guys on the list that did win multiple titles, went straight to franchises that are known for winning. So since I am starting a franchise, I am assumming the player I am getting is someone who can turn a bad franchise into a great one and not one who is going to a great franchise from the get go.

todu82
03-28-2011, 09:13 AM
I would take Shaq.

Antipod
03-28-2011, 09:13 AM
A big man - Timmy or Shaq(voted for Duncan)

avrpatsfan
03-28-2011, 09:27 AM
Lebron still. He led his team to the finals with no supporting cast and had a 60 win season with the best player on his team other than him being Jamison. I don't like him but I still have to pick him.

twoearl
03-28-2011, 09:35 AM
I thought about choosing shaq but I chose duncan instead. Duncan's work ethic and team first attitude put him over shaq in my book. As you can see Shaq flamed out about two years ago while duncan is still good enough to be a 2nd option on a championship team...

JordansBulls
03-28-2011, 09:46 AM
Gasol = dominant?
:no:

Well he led the team in Win Shares 3 years in a row.

Vinylman
03-28-2011, 10:06 AM
This is a wing league...

1.kobe
2. wade
3. Durant

4. Shaq/Duncan


1-3 are the most competitive guys in the league and play the most impactful positions in the league...

For those that love shaq... it took him 8 years before he could win a ship... it took him a HOF coach and a 20 year old Kobe Bryant....

Everyone seems to forget that the first 3 years shaq was in LA they were 1-12 in the playoff series they exited in... ie... not even close to competitive... its no surprise that PJ comes in... institutes the triangle... puts the role players in place (veterans with character)... makes kobe more of a focus and presto ... they win 3 straight ships...

Shaq has always had a top 1-2 wing player when he won it...

Not saying he will win it this year but if he does he will be alongside 3 of the top 30 scorers all time in league history... not even counting him...

MickeyMgl
03-28-2011, 10:34 AM
kobe hasn't won anything without a big..in fact had a losing record with out one..

This is false.

Da Knicks
03-28-2011, 10:37 AM
Went with Shaq next i would go with Timmy

KnicksorBust
03-28-2011, 10:52 AM
Tim Duncan without hesitation. I'll take 12 years of a mixture of A to A+ seasons with Tim Duncan over 6 years of A+ Shaq before he pulls a prima donna move and I have to trade him for Lamar Odom and Caron Butler or lose him in FA.

King Drew
03-28-2011, 11:00 AM
Who other than shaq? Shaq in his prime was awesome and unstoppable.

Double_R
03-28-2011, 11:07 AM
kobe or tim. both class acts. and both will work their butts off.

That's the thing both had to work their butts off and Shaq barely tried and still won 4 rings as the best player on the team.(I am aware that Wade shot the same amt of free throws as the entire Mavs team, but Shaq should have won MVP that season and his D was great in that series).

If Shaq didn't have the "I'll get surgery on company time" attitude, he could have 6+ rings and every personal award out there, that is why I consider him one of the biggest underachievers ever.

RaiderLakersA's
03-28-2011, 11:16 AM
Shaq is winning this poll with 43% of the vote.

I just think it's interesting that the bulk of the voters would want to start a franchise with a guy who's played for six teams, half of which he left while still a top ten player. That's not to say he wasn't the most dominant at his peak.

Wouldn't loyalty be a priority for you if you were trying to build a team around a certain player? He's no good for you if he leaves. That's in part why I give the edge to Duncan or Bryant here.

All good points, but there is no loyalty in professional sports. That's the business you're in. If you don't win a title, odds are you're going to lose your franchise player anyway.

Bear in mind that Shaq isn't the only one on the list that migrated to another team. Further, some of the other names on that list have either threatened or seriously considered leaving their original teams, a couple of them (Wade and Kobe) even after having won a title with that franchise.

All this to say, no, I don't care as much about loyalty. After all, if this franchise guy isn't winning titles, as owner/GM it will likely be my thumbprint on the deal that sends him packing for someone else who I think can raise a banner for me. Nothing personal, just business.

johnnychan
03-28-2011, 11:18 AM
1.Shaq
2.Kobe
3.Lebron

Double_R
03-28-2011, 11:19 AM
This is a wing league...

1.kobe
2. wade
3. Durant

4. Shaq/Duncan


1-3 are the most competitive guys in the league and play the most impactful positions in the league...

For those that love shaq... it took him 8 years before he could win a ship... it took him a HOF coach and a 20 year old Kobe Bryant....

Everyone seems to forget that the first 3 years shaq was in LA they were 1-12 in the playoff series they exited in... ie... not even close to competitive... its no surprise that PJ comes in... institutes the triangle... puts the role players in place (veterans with character)... makes kobe more of a focus and presto ... they win 3 straight ships...

Shaq has always had a top 1-2 wing player when he won it...

Not saying he will win it this year but if he does he will be alongside 3 of the top 30 scorers all time in league history... not even counting him...

You are delusional if you think that you would have a better chance at winning a championship with Kobe, Wade, Durant over Shaq and Duncan. Shaq and Duncan were clearly the best players when they won.

When Phil got there, he allowed Shaq to absolutely dominate, hence the MVP and 3 finals mvps.

When he went to Miami, he was robbed when Nash got the MVP, look at what Miami did before he got there with Caron, Odom, and Wade and look at what happened when it was just Shaq and Wade.

Duncan has always been the best player on his team, period. That is why he has 4 championships and 3 finals MVPs.

PS: this isn't a wing player league, it is an allstar big and and an allstar wing league, but no wing player has won a championship without a dominate big. Pau & Bynum, KG & Perkins, Duncan, Shaq, Ben Wallace/Rasheed Wallace, Shaq, Shaq and more Shaq. Jordan is the only wing that completely dominated everything while being the best player on the court.

isuk
03-28-2011, 11:25 AM
well this is a pretty easy question seeing as how hard it is to come across a dominate center

Preacher
03-28-2011, 11:29 AM
Shaq.

Interesting thread, but an odd list of players. A few more PG might be in order. Imagine any team with a 21 year old Steve Nash. It would take a few years, but if he progressed the same way you would be in for a heck of a run. Literally.

sevencastro
03-28-2011, 11:33 AM
i wld go with shaq he wld make howard cry for help on the defensive end. and in todays game he wld be scoring like 50 a game there is no true center rite now in the nba

Heediot
03-28-2011, 11:34 AM
This is a wing league...

1.kobe
2. wade
3. Durant

4. Shaq/Duncan


1-3 are the most competitive guys in the league and play the most impactful positions in the league...

For those that love shaq... it took him 8 years before he could win a ship... it took him a HOF coach and a 20 year old Kobe Bryant....

Everyone seems to forget that the first 3 years shaq was in LA they were 1-12 in the playoff series they exited in... ie... not even close to competitive... its no surprise that PJ comes in... institutes the triangle... puts the role players in place (veterans with character)... makes kobe more of a focus and presto ... they win 3 straight ships...

Shaq has always had a top 1-2 wing player when he won it...

Not saying he will win it this year but if he does he will be alongside 3 of the top 30 scorers all time in league history... not even counting him...

Says who? It's a league predicated upon efficiency. Half court offense and defense wins. Hence a big man that can create his shot is more vital versus a wing. A dominant big man shoots 55 percent plus, raely does a good wing shoot any where close. On the defensive end, a good big man presence forces others to take lower percentage shots.

I think there has to be a synthesis between a wing and a big for success to occur. But i'm in favour of Big being more vital versus the wing. Jordan was a master in the post, he is one of the few wings that commanded doubles and triples by posting up alot in the triangle. Jordan is the exception to the rule.

Vinylman
03-28-2011, 11:35 AM
You are delusional if you think that you would have a better chance at winning a championship with Kobe, Wade, Durant over Shaq and Duncan. Shaq and Duncan were clearly the best players when they won.

When Phil got there, he allowed Shaq to absolutely dominate, hence the MVP and 3 finals mvps.

When he went to Miami, he was robbed when Nash got the MVP, look at what Miami did before he got there with Caron, Odom, and Wade and look at what happened when it was just Shaq and Wade.

Duncan has always been the best player on his team, period. That is why he has 4 championships and 3 finals MVPs.

PS: this isn't a wing player league, it is an allstar big and and an allstar wing league, but no wing player has won a championship without a dominate big. Pau & Bynum, KG & Perkins, Duncan, Shaq, Ben Wallace/Rasheed Wallace, Shaq, Shaq and more Shaq. Jordan is the only wing that completely dominated everything while being the best player on the court.

to funny... shaq was why they won in miami :facepalm:

you are ****ing delusional... did you watch that series? did you watch wade single handedly win the series in the 4th quarter of every game starting in game 3? Did you watch the defense that mourning played? Haslem? Posey? Did you watch the guard play of Jwil and payton? That team had 4 HOFers on it... which laker team had 4 HOFers on it?

As for Duncan... he is a great player but he definitely benefitted early on playing next to Robinson... its alot easier to be a big who doesn't have to go against the opponent 5 on the defensive end ... just ask Gasol how that works...

Again... shaq didn't win **** until phil got there and kobe was in his 4th year... it is obvious to anyone of minimal intelligence that the lakers don't win the championships without kobe... people always forget how ****** Shaq played against the spurs and how it was invariably kobe who got them out of the west...

Heediot
03-28-2011, 11:37 AM
Vinyl man, what was Kobe's record without Shaq or Gasol?

What is Wade's record without a good big man?

Heediot
03-28-2011, 11:44 AM
Shaq. I'm old school and I know the best teams are built around a dominant big man. No one on that list would be more dominant than a 21 year old Shaq would be. Especially in the current NBA.

For everyone else on that list, coaching, system and supporting cast matters. Would Duncan be as great if Don Nelson or Dantoni was his coach? Probably not. Or Kobe in, say, a Van Gundy system. Either Van Gundy. Probably not dominating this year at 21, even with D. Howard as his center, although that combination would eventually get a ring. And we're already seeing how coaching, system, and supporting cast affects LeBron, Wade and Bosh. Still good, but not DOMINANT like a 21 year old Shaq would be with any coach, with any system, no matter who the supporting cast is.

You could argue shaq did not win a title by 21, and Duncan won the title at 21!

Another Point, Shaq won his titles with Phil who had already won 6! and Riley who already won 4 or 5.
Popovich didnt win anything before Timmy came along. Although he hadn't coached alot prior to Duncan's arrival.

nevermind he won when he was 22-23 lol, i thought he won it as a rookie.

ragee
03-28-2011, 11:47 AM
I picked Shaq... Nothing beats a dominant center as a franchise player... Especially a player as dominant as Shaq... My team should be in LA though or less that bastard will surely leave my team! Hahaha

Byronicle
03-28-2011, 11:51 AM
the big Diesel, or Ethanol because he's going green these days

RaiderLakersA's
03-28-2011, 12:14 PM
You could argue shaq did not win a title by 21, and Duncan won the title at 21!

Another Point, Shaq won his titles with Phil who had already won 6! and Riley who already won 4 or 5.
Popovich didnt win anything before Timmy came along. Although he hadn't coached alot prior to Duncan's arrival.

nevermind he won when he was 22-23 lol, i thought he won it as a rookie.

Right, but your comments are based on actual history. The whole point of this post presupposes that the history was different, or at the very least, that we do not know any of the other surrounding elements.

All other unknowns being constant, I'm pretty sure most would choose Shaq at face value. At 21, the dude is 7'1", 325 lbs., had power as well as agility that belied his size, and could run the floor with your point guards. He also had high basketball IQ, was adaptable to whatever system you taught him and would instantly command double and triple teams -- and eat them up! -- all day long.

I'm not saying that Duncan is a bad pick. I'm just saying that if I'm the owner/GM I'm going with the guy that I know will keep other coaches up at night trying to think of ways to stop him. And to no avail. Duncan, for all of his great skills, was never that guy.

Lloyd Christmas
03-28-2011, 12:21 PM
1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. Kobe
4. KG
5. Lebron
6. Rose
7. Wade
8. Durant

The Jokemaker
03-28-2011, 12:21 PM
Hands down Shaq. Duncan is a great player but is/was not the dominant force Shaq was.

Vinylman
03-28-2011, 12:22 PM
Vinyl man, what was Kobe's record without Shaq or Gasol?

What is Wade's record without a good big man?

In the finals?

both are 0-0

As for this notion that shaq was anything in that Miami series but a shell of his former self... let the stats do the talking...

Wade 34.7/7.8 for the serioes Shaq 13.6/10.1 :facepalm:

Shaq faced Diop and Dampier .... the perception after the series was that Diop played so well he deserved a big fat contract :speechless:

recap from game 1 - Chris Sheridan

By far the worst overall effort of the night, at least from a statistical perspective, was Shaquille O'Neal missing his first eight free throws (10, actually, because two were wiped off by lane violations before he finally made one with 55 seconds left and the Heat trailing by nine).

recap from game 2 - Chris Sheridan

Shaquille O'Neal was a non-factor (when was the last time you read that after a Finals game, if ever?) and had his lowest-scoring playoff game ever,

game 3 - Wade fuels improbable comeback as Heat stun Mavs in Game 3

game 4 - Dwyane Wade finished with 36 points, including 24 in the first half despite playing on a strained left knee, while O'Neal had 17 points and made half of his 10 foul shots, Posey scored 15 and Walker 14. As a team, Miami outrebounded Dallas 48-36 -- making it easily Dallas' worst game on the boards in the entire postseason.

game 5 - Wade's heroics have Heat one victory from NBA title

game 6 - "I don't want to say I put the team on my back. You know, we did it together. Like Coach said, like we've all been saying, it's been 15 strong," Wade said. "They gave me the opportunity by putting the ball in my hands to prove people wrong. When I came the series, it was, I can't shoot. I don't know where they got that from. So I proved to them I can shoot, and then after that, I proved I can play, and that's all I tried to do: prove people wrong."

[I]O'Neal picked up his fifth foul just more than two minutes into the final quarter and went to the bench, but on this night the Most Dominant Ever wasn't even Much Of A Factor, and the Heat kept playing in front for the next few minutes, in large part because of the energy and defensive presence provided by O'Neal's backup, Mourning.

yep... shaq was why they won

twoearl
03-28-2011, 12:26 PM
I'm not saying that Duncan is a bad pick. I'm just saying that if I'm the owner/GM I'm going with the guy that I know will keep other coaches up at night trying to think of ways to stop him. And to no avail. Duncan, for all of his great skills, was never that guy.

I totally disagree with this statement. Duncan is easily the Best PF of all time. During his peaks years, which by the way span longer than shaq's, he was an opposing coach's nightmare.

Shaq was great but look at his help? He had Kobe and Dwade. Two people who I must say are ON THIS LIST.

Who did Duncan have? *crickets*

Shaq + work ethic would have been the greatest of all time. But that is something he just never had.

Heediot
03-28-2011, 12:33 PM
I totally disagree with this statement. Duncan is easily the Best PF of all time. During his peaks years, which by the way span longer than shaq's, he was an opposing coach's nightmare.

Shaq was great but look at his help? He had Kobe and Dwade. Two people who I must say are ON THIS LIST.

Who did Duncan have? *crickets*

Shaq + work ethic would have been the greatest of all time. But that is something he just never had.

To add the debate. Shaq shot at a higher percentage than Duncan also. Shaq was more dominant in terms of raw strength and athleticism. But overall Duncan was more well rounded and efficient. His FT shooting made him more viable in critical situations in crunch time and in the playoffs. Shaq has the beneficary of Kobe's of having a great clutch player in Kobe. I guess one could argue Ginobli is pretty clutch. Still, Duncan is a better option in the clutch versus Shaq. Duncan also gives you more on defense both with his individual and team defense. Duncan can run the floor for a big.

Overall Shaq gave you more dominace, but Duncan more defense, well roundedness, and efficiency. I'll take later over the former.

twoearl
03-28-2011, 12:36 PM
To add the debate. Shaq shot at a higher percentage than Duncan also. Shaq was more dominant in terms of raw strength and athleticism. But overall Duncan was more well rounded and efficient. His FT shooting made him more viable in critical situations in crunch time and in the playoffs. Shaq has the beneficary of Kobe's of having a great clutch player in Kobe. I guess one could argue Ginobli is pretty clutch. Still, Duncan is a better option in the clutch versus Shaq. Duncan also gives you more on defense both with his individual and team defense. Duncan can run the floor for a big.

Overall Shaq gave you more dominace, but Duncan more defense, well roundedness, and efficiency. I'll take later over the former.

Well said. Couldn't agree more..

Heediot
03-28-2011, 12:36 PM
In the finals?

both are 0-0

As for this notion that shaq was anything in that Miami series but a shell of his former self... let the stats do the talking...

Wade 34.7/7.8 for the serioes Shaq 13.6/10.1 :facepalm:

Shaq faced Diop and Dampier .... the perception after the series was that Diop played so well he deserved a big fat contract :speechless:

recap from game 1 - Chris Sheridan

By far the worst overall effort of the night, at least from a statistical perspective, was Shaquille O'Neal missing his first eight free throws (10, actually, because two were wiped off by lane violations before he finally made one with 55 seconds left and the Heat trailing by nine).

recap from game 2 - Chris Sheridan

Shaquille O'Neal was a non-factor (when was the last time you read that after a Finals game, if ever?) and had his lowest-scoring playoff game ever,

game 3 - Wade fuels improbable comeback as Heat stun Mavs in Game 3

game 4 - Dwyane Wade finished with 36 points, including 24 in the first half despite playing on a strained left knee, while O'Neal had 17 points and made half of his 10 foul shots, Posey scored 15 and Walker 14. As a team, Miami outrebounded Dallas 48-36 -- making it easily Dallas' worst game on the boards in the entire postseason.

game 5 - Wade's heroics have Heat one victory from NBA title

game 6 - "I don't want to say I put the team on my back. You know, we did it together. Like Coach said, like we've all been saying, it's been 15 strong," Wade said. "They gave me the opportunity by putting the ball in my hands to prove people wrong. When I came the series, it was, I can't shoot. I don't know where they got that from. So I proved to them I can shoot, and then after that, I proved I can play, and that's all I tried to do: prove people wrong."

[I]O'Neal picked up his fifth foul just more than two minutes into the final quarter and went to the bench, but on this night the Most Dominant Ever wasn't even Much Of A Factor, and the Heat kept playing in front for the next few minutes, in large part because of the energy and defensive presence provided by O'Neal's backup, Mourning.

yep... shaq was why they won

Put it this way.

Wade with (Odom, Grant, Butler, etc before Shaq trade) No ships, after Shaq trade Ship!

Bryant without Shaq or nice big man (Odom, Grant, Butler, etc.) - Struggling.

The common denominator is Shaq and or Big man.

And the other post stated what was their record overall without Shaq/Big man, not what they did with him in the finals.

Sly Guy
03-28-2011, 12:40 PM
call me crazy, but I'd definitely take a hard long look at Grant Hill before injuries. Dude could ball.

rapjuicer06
03-28-2011, 12:50 PM
This is false.

my bad 42-40....

oh and in 04-05 the lakers were 34-48 with no legit big man. soooo not so much false there. kobe did miss some games but still played in enough for them to win more than 34 if he's soooo damn amazing and doesn't need a big

Bruno
03-28-2011, 12:56 PM
All good points, but there is no loyalty in professional sports. That's the business you're in. If you don't win a title, odds are you're going to lose your franchise player anyway.


But Shaq was winning titles.

It is a business, you're right. I just think if I were starting a franchise the loyalty aspect would play a part in my decision

Lloyd Christmas
03-28-2011, 12:56 PM
How does Kobe have more votes then Duncan?

dhopisthename
03-28-2011, 01:00 PM
Shaq
duncan
lebron
kobe
wade
Garnett
Rose
durant

Heediot
03-28-2011, 01:06 PM
How does Kobe have more votes then Duncan?

More exposure and highlight reels. Duncan is a machine that isnt fancy. He is a low-key player, and ESPN or Foxsports want to to show emblemesh the fancy elements of the games on the highlights. Alot of the voters prefer style over substance to add to the profound homerism.

Iggz53
03-28-2011, 01:11 PM
Easily Shaq for me

FadeAwayLikeMJ
03-28-2011, 01:12 PM
i wanted to vote Shaq, and i probably should have now that i think about it lol.

but i voted Garnett over Shaq for a couple of reasons/opinions

Longevity contest will go to Garnett, so would coachability. and from my understanding KG is alot more of a team player. couple more advantages to taking KG over Shaq:

FT %
Mid-range %

BKdoubleStacker
03-28-2011, 01:12 PM
Shaq
duncan
lebron
kobe
wade
Garnett
Rose
durant

ok homer :laugh:

lebron over kobe and wade over garnett?

sp1derm00
03-28-2011, 01:17 PM
You cannot go wrong with Kobe, Duncan, or Shaq.

These players have dominated more than one era. It's pretty scary to think about it, but in the past 12 years, they have produced 10 of the last 12 championships. The only championships not accounted for were by All-Time great defenses in Detroit and Boston.

I would go with Kobe because if I were to own the franchise, I would hope to make money as well as win titles and that's what Kobe has been able to do. Kobe is the most marketable of the three and as had the longest "superstar" longevity of the three. More money, same dedication and capability of producing titles.

Natty Ice
03-28-2011, 01:23 PM
I'll take a 39 year old shaq over all those chumps

topdog
03-28-2011, 01:25 PM
Man, I can't believe two guys who can't master the foundamental of shooting free throws are in my top 3... Don't worry kids - you don't need to make those free throws, just be really really big.

Shaq->Kobe->Duncan

Double_R
03-28-2011, 02:16 PM
to funny... shaq was why they won in miami :facepalm:

you are ****ing delusional... did you watch that series? did you watch wade single handedly win the series in the 4th quarter of every game starting in game 3? Did you watch the defense that mourning played? Haslem? Posey? Did you watch the guard play of Jwil and payton? That team had 4 HOFers on it... which laker team had 4 HOFers on it?

As for Duncan... he is a great player but he definitely benefitted early on playing next to Robinson... its alot easier to be a big who doesn't have to go against the opponent 5 on the defensive end ... just ask Gasol how that works...

Again... shaq didn't win **** until phil got there and kobe was in his 4th year... it is obvious to anyone of minimal intelligence that the lakers don't win the championships without kobe... people always forget how ****** Shaq played against the spurs and how it was invariably kobe who got them out of the west...

Were you born in June that year, because you seemed to forget about the season that brought them to the Finals.
The year Shaq had a career high in fg% and was runner up in MVP voting.
http://espn.go.com/dickvitale/vcolumn050508-Nash.html
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=schoenfield/050518&num=2

I love your selection of headlines... here is the real ones

Game 1: Shaq goes 8-11 from the field, while Wade goes 11-25 and has an amazing ast/to rate of 6/5.
Game:2 Wade goes 6-19 allowing Shaq to only get 5 shots.
Game 3: Shaq goes 6-9, 16pts, 11reb, 5 ast all during Wade getting assist from the refs with his 18 fta to the Mavs 26 fta. Wade has a good game though assisted.
Game4: Shaq scores 17 and grabs 13 rebounds while holding dirk to 2-14 from the field. (Morning wasn't a factor playing 10 minutes)
Game 5: should say Wade goes 11-28, but the refs wanted him to score 40, so they gave him the opportunity to shoot 25 ft, the same as the entire Mavs team. The final 2 ftm come with 1 second left to give Heat the game.
Game 6: Shaq gets taken out by refs in redemption game for them, while Wade has a really good game.

Cromedome
03-28-2011, 04:50 PM
Shaq....because he was unstoppable at 21.

believeinNYK
03-28-2011, 04:57 PM
Shaq-O-mite!

rockets-fan
03-28-2011, 05:05 PM
shaq

this coming from being a rockets fan, all rockets fans know how much not having a shot blocking/big man can hurt the team...

Kutchie03
03-28-2011, 05:12 PM
gotta go with shaq, don't forget that he was the most dominant player in the league for a 10 year stretch. averaging nearly 30 and 13? are you serious? how could you not take him. especially today with the terrible centers in the league.

The BodyGuard
03-28-2011, 05:22 PM
Durant
Kobe
Iverson
Shaq

Silent
03-28-2011, 05:27 PM
Shaq
Rose
Kobe

J_M_B
03-28-2011, 05:55 PM
All great players, but definitely Shaq.

Arguably the most dominant force in league history.

AIRMAR72
03-28-2011, 10:40 PM
ok kobe fans i was joking around when i called him garbage but here IS my honest opinon on a young 21yr ol kobe his jump shot was inconsistant most of the time it was flat(line drive no arch) at times he mis easy dunks and lay-ups he scored must of his points on give N GO and dunks he played very hard and sometime tried too hard KOBE IQ was AVERAGE at that time its was nowhere near bronz or wade or timmy but when you guys try to compare kobe with shaq lebron,timmy,durant and wade its not FAIR for kobe cause these guys were better than kobe at 21 timmy HAD Robinson but TIMMY is the reason why David Robinson is wearing a ring all the other GUYS on the list played on subpar teams and turn there franches into winners while kobe since day1 played on a stud squad NOW if KOBE wouldve went to da hornets and change that Franches or the main reason(lakers wouldve won with eddie jones at SG) why laker won they rings than its ok to have KOBE name with the likes of shaq and bron and wade but these guy change there teams image kobe dont belong on that LIST as a player to start a team around just look at carmelo both melo N KOBE are the same players

CowboysKB24
03-28-2011, 11:45 PM
This is tough, but I'd go with Shaq considering a big man is so hard to find.
Then Duncan, same reasoning as Shaq.
Then Kobe.
Then Wade.
LBJ

BKdoubleStacker
03-29-2011, 12:38 AM
ok kobe fans i was joking around when i called him garbage but here IS my honest opinon on a young 21yr ol kobe his jump shot was inconsistant most of the time it was flat(line drive no arch) at times he mis easy dunks and lay-ups he scored must of his points on give N GO and dunks he played very hard and sometime tried too hard KOBE IQ was AVERAGE at that time its was nowhere near bronz or wade or timmy but when you guys try to compare kobe with shaq lebron,timmy,durant and wade its not FAIR for kobe cause these guys were better than kobe at 21 timmy HAD Robinson but TIMMY is the reason why David Robinson is wearing a ring all the other GUYS on the list played on subpar teams and turn there franches into winners while kobe since day1 played on a stud squad NOW if KOBE wouldve went to da hornets and change that Franches or the main reason(lakers wouldve won with eddie jones at SG) why laker won they rings than its ok to have KOBE name with the likes of shaq and bron and wade but these guy change there teams image kobe dont belong on that LIST as a player to start a team around just look at carmelo both melo N KOBE are the same players

yea, and lebron and wade had great jumpers at 21 right?

Ill take kobe in his prime over them 2 any day of the week. His defense was far greater than lebron and wades.

and you would take carmelo over kobe? :facepalm:

with that said: i will take shaq

Jenceman
03-29-2011, 12:46 AM
Shaq, then Kobe.

Kobe's dominance lasts longer, and Kobe will go down as the greater overall player, but Shaq's prime years are unmatched in the modern era.

mttwlsn16
03-29-2011, 12:59 AM
hate the guy, but i would take lebron hands down.

Lake_Show2416
03-29-2011, 01:28 AM
Shaq without hesitation

TopsyTurvy
03-29-2011, 01:58 AM
Shaq by a mile - Duncan is the only other guy even in the discussion.

Gideon
03-29-2011, 02:10 AM
Shaq or Duncan. You start any franchise with a dominant young big man.

Public Enemy #1
03-29-2011, 02:16 AM
LBJ or Shaq.

smiddy012
03-29-2011, 02:28 AM
I'd take a 31 year old Shaq in his 21 year old body - I'm pretty sure I'd take a young Kobe over a young Shaq due to maturity reasons, same with Kobe over LBJ.

And Shaq didn't dominate **** till after the 98 Bulls as far as I'm concerned.

Geargo Wallace
03-29-2011, 02:31 AM
Shaq then LeBron then Duncan then Kobe/Wade. If you say other than Shaq you crazzzzzzzzzzzzzzy

smiddy012
03-29-2011, 02:34 AM
Shaq then LeBron then Duncan then Kobe/Wade. If you say other than Shaq you crazzzzzzzzzzzzzzy

The guy never applied himself, especially in his early 20s. Never even came near to his full potential.

towlsmoke420
03-29-2011, 02:37 AM
SHAQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ DDDDDIESELLLLLLLLLLLLLL ground and pound meat on the nba

More-Than-Most
03-29-2011, 02:42 AM
Wow no love for AI? I know there is the other slot but damn

I would go

Shaq
Kobe
Duncan

mjokc
03-29-2011, 03:06 AM
Shaq, no question. None of those other players come close to the type of game changer that a prime Shaq was.

Geargo Wallace
03-29-2011, 10:40 AM
The guy never applied himself, especially in his early 20s. Never even came near to his full potential.

still dominated and garnered more attention on offense than anyone on this list.

kdspurman
03-29-2011, 11:20 AM
Timmy D... Leads by example, he's coachable, very consistent, and loyal to his city. (he had a chance to play with Orlando in 2000 and chose to stay in SA...) Why wouldnt i start the franchise with a guy who's loyal to my franchise?

king4day
03-29-2011, 12:11 PM
I'd take Duncan. But it'd be between he and Shaq for me. Kobe right behind them.

king4day
03-29-2011, 12:12 PM
Timmy D... Leads by example, he's coachable, very consistent, and loyal to his city. (he had a chance to play with Orlando in 2000 and chose to stay in SA...) Why wouldnt i start the franchise with a guy who's loyal to my franchise?

That's a really good argument. There's no assurance these players would stay but with Timmy, you have a good idea that he would.

MickeyMgl
03-30-2011, 04:37 AM
PS: this isn't a wing player league, it is an allstar big and and an allstar wing league, but no wing player has won a championship without a dominate big. Pau & Bynum, KG & Perkins, Duncan, Shaq, Ben Wallace/Rasheed Wallace, Shaq, Shaq and more Shaq. Jordan is the only wing that completely dominated everything while being the best player on the court.

A) Neither Pau or Bynum are "dominant". Neither Wallace. Definitely not Perkins, and not Garnett in '08.

B) Dennis Rodman was more dominant on the interior for the Bulls than half the guys you listed.

MickeyMgl
03-30-2011, 04:39 AM
i wld go with shaq he wld make howard cry for help on the defensive end. and in todays game he wld be scoring like 50 a game there is no true center rite now in the nba

A few, but more importantly, there is zone defense.

MickeyMgl
03-30-2011, 05:04 AM
my bad 42-40....

oh and in 04-05 the lakers were 34-48 with no legit big man. soooo not so much false there. kobe did miss some games but still played in enough for them to win more than 34 if he's soooo damn amazing and doesn't need a big

The Lakers were in the middle of the playoff picture that year when Kobe went out with injury. So... your statement remains false.

After that, it was two and a half years saddled with Kwame and Smush, and still managing to drag their sorry ***** to within a rebound of a monumental upset of the Suns.

"Kobe without Shaq or Pau" is always a specious argument, anyway. Kwame Brown is a far BELOW-average big. Any fair comparison would take that into consideration.

RaiderLakersA's
03-30-2011, 11:29 AM
I get the impression that most of the people that wouldn't choose Shaq are doing so based on the established history of all players. I thought the point of this poll was to view everyone without knowing what their NBA accomplishments would be. Without knowing their ceiling, and truly, without really knowing what system they'd be playing in or with whom, or what your team needs are.

Maybe we should view the question differently. Let's say it's the first day of the draft, you're the GM/owner of a new franchise with the #1 pick, and without knowing whether the guy you choose is going to be boom or bust, make your selection. Given all of the God-given talent and prowess that Shaq had, I find it hard to believe that anyone would choose someone else first. Timmy Duncan might get some nods, but I think most would feel that the Shaq would be the choice.

Afro
03-30-2011, 12:45 PM
I voted other. 21 year old MJ > everything. You guys are just hating giving MJ less than 10 votes.

RaiderLakersA's
03-30-2011, 01:01 PM
I voted other. 21 year old MJ > everything. You guys are just hating giving MJ less than 10 votes.

Can't speak for everyone else, but I'm not hating on Jordan. It's a philosophical difference. I firmly believe that you pick the dominating big man first and build from there. Now if we were talking about anyone other than Shaq with his once in a lifetime ungodly measurables, I could see picking Jordan, Kobe, or other perimeter players first.

Missing56&33
03-30-2011, 01:56 PM
Kobe is as close to MJ as you gonna get...........and he's still light years away from him. Remember if MJ didn't retire twice he would have won at least 10 ships.......straight

Bruno
03-30-2011, 02:10 PM
Kobe is as close to MJ as you gonna get...........and he's still light years away from him. Remember if MJ didn't retire twice he would have won at least 10 ships.......straight

You have to take a pretty big leap of faith to believe that. The Bulls would have been outmatched in the paint big time in '95 against the Rockets; post Grant, pre Rodman. I'd also favor the 2000 Lakers with a 28/22 year old Shaq and Kobe w/ a great supporting cast over a 37/35/39 year old Jordan/Pippen/Rodman.

Ebbs
03-30-2011, 02:21 PM
Shaq, Lebron, Kobe, Duncan

pedrofan45
03-30-2011, 02:22 PM
Shaq definitely.. by far the most dominant player on that list.. second though, gotta go with Garnett... Garnett was an absolute BEAST, put him on the Spurs and Duncan on Minnesota.. Garnett would have won more titles guaranteed!! Then I'd go Duncan, Lebron, Kobe, Durant, Rose, Wade.. Rose is only ahead of Wade because of Wade's injury history

SeoulBeatz
03-30-2011, 02:28 PM
Shaq, he was more of a freak than Lebron in his prime.

CarniifeX
03-30-2011, 02:39 PM
If we're talking about these players being 21 with their CURRENT skill set, I'd take Kobe.

jezzyman05
03-30-2011, 02:54 PM
Tim Duncan

IceMan360
03-30-2011, 02:54 PM
Its Shaq no doubt, at 21 he was a man among boys utter beast

J-Relo
03-30-2011, 02:59 PM
If we're talking about these players being 21 with their CURRENT skill set, I'd take Kobe.

would be no point to start the discussion at first place.

the question is who was the best at age 21.

Klivlend
03-30-2011, 03:05 PM
Shaq, he was more of a freak than Lebron in his prime.

A bit early to say this as LBJ is still approaching his prime. He turns 27 this December.

PhillyFaninLA
03-30-2011, 03:08 PM
In order (and I'm ignoring other option and just using those listed, I wouldn't take Kobe for free so he's not on the list he's scum and should be in jail for things he got away with, lets not debate this and just move on):

Lebron - one of the best ever, could be mentioned in the same breath as Jordan or Magic in 20 years
Duncan - a top 10 player all time IMO and still is somehow underrated or forgetten about be many people
Shaq - third greatest Laker of all time behind Magic and Wilt
D Wade - could be a top 20 all time when its all said and done
Garnett - his skill and size is great and his on court attitude you love when he's your guy
Durant - he could be one of the best scores of all time when its all said and done but not as good overall as the guys above him on this list and needs to improve in other areas
Rose - he's good but IMO he's only the 3 - 4 best point guard in the game, I think Deron and CP3 are better, I think he's only marginally better then Rondo, and I think Jrue Holliday could potentially be better then Rose when the careers are over (he's only 20 so he'd have to age a year to make this list)

Lake_Show2416
03-30-2011, 03:47 PM
A bit early to say this as LBJ is still approaching his prime. He turns 27 this December.

he's over the hill :laugh:

NYK
03-30-2011, 03:52 PM
Probably Shaq cause he was unstoppable with Kobe being second.

Nikeman
03-30-2011, 04:16 PM
Why people picking Duncan?

Shaq would tear his *** up down low.

MickeyMgl
03-30-2011, 05:23 PM
still dominated and garnered more attention on offense than anyone on this list.

I think it could be strongly argued that Kobe at his most dominant garnered as much attention through his skill as Shaq did through his size and strength.

MickeyMgl
03-30-2011, 05:30 PM
I get the impression that most of the people that wouldn't choose Shaq are doing so based on the established history of all players. I thought the point of this poll was to view everyone without knowing what their NBA accomplishments would be. Without knowing their ceiling, and truly, without really knowing what system they'd be playing in or with whom, or what your team needs are.

Maybe we should view the question differently. Let's say it's the first day of the draft, you're the GM/owner of a new franchise with the #1 pick, and without knowing whether the guy you choose is going to be boom or bust, make your selection. Given all of the God-given talent and prowess that Shaq had, I find it hard to believe that anyone would choose someone else first. Timmy Duncan might get some nods, but I think most would feel that the Shaq would be the choice.

If it's the way you pose it, then Shaq wins every time. I considered the fact that the question is being asked today, in 2011, and that we DO know some things about each of them that we did not know on day one. Otherwise, I grant you, based on physical presence and no other knowledge, it'd be Shaq.

MickeyMgl
03-30-2011, 05:33 PM
Kobe is as close to MJ as you gonna get...........and he's still light years away from him. Remember if MJ didn't retire twice he would have won at least 10 ships.......straight

There you have it. Any other player doesn't do something, or get the opportunity to do something (like Magic & his Lakers having a chance to come back and win after the '91 Finals) then it's like it never would have happened. But if it's MJ, whatever he didn't do, he "woulda" done if he'd wanted to.

:rolleyes:

What?
03-30-2011, 05:37 PM
Why people picking Duncan?

Shaq would tear his *** up down low.

The only reason I could see picking Duncan over shaq is because of Durability.

You can also say that about everyone why would you take any of these guys before shaq.

RaiderLakersA's
03-30-2011, 05:49 PM
If it's the way you pose it, then Shaq wins every time. I considered the fact that the question is being asked today, in 2011, and that we DO know some things about each of them that we did not know on day one. Otherwise, I grant you, based on physical presence and no other knowledge, it'd be Shaq.

Well, if it's based on their history + achievements, it's Russell, Jordan, Kobe, Magic and Kareem. Don't even bother to list anyone who hasn't started for or player/coached their teams to at least 5 championships. In that instance, I wouldn't choose Shaq either. :D

RaiderLakersA's
03-30-2011, 05:51 PM
There you have it. Any other player doesn't do something, or get the opportunity to do something (like Magic & his Lakers having a chance to come back and win after the '91 Finals) then it's like it never would have happened. But if it's MJ, whatever he didn't do, he "woulda" done if he'd wanted to.

:rolleyes:

:clap: :clap: :clap: Praise the Lord, there are at least two sober people in this forum!!!

MattyG
03-30-2011, 06:37 PM
-

Jonathan2323
03-30-2011, 06:42 PM
Shaq
Wade
LeBron
Kobe
Duncan

godolphins
03-30-2011, 06:49 PM
Tim Duncan

BradfordIsElite
03-30-2011, 06:56 PM
Shaq - Most of us saw how dominant he was right out of the gates. Who wouldn't want a very young and in shape Shaquille. He was unstoppable...arguably one of the most dominating big men of all time, of course him over anyone else.
Now you can put Tim and Kev in the same category, but not exactly at the same level, however, if I were to pick another it would be KG at 21. If he had help in Minny all those years, you would have even seen a better KG without all the double teams and focus on him.

heatking
03-30-2011, 07:04 PM
Give me shaq at 21 years old quite easily. C like shaq at 21 dont come around.

Lu's Dynasty
03-30-2011, 07:21 PM
Shaq.

Klivlend
03-30-2011, 07:22 PM
he's over the hill :laugh:

umm...excuse me?

ManningToTyree
03-30-2011, 07:44 PM
shaq, kobe, immy are all good answers. i went shaq because there are so few centers and he was so dominant

B'sCeltsPatsSox
03-30-2011, 09:33 PM
Either Tim, Shaq or Kobe.

LakersDudeee
03-31-2011, 05:55 AM
I don't know if this question has been answered but:

Do we choose if they were 21 with the skills they've acquired up till' today? Or their skill set when they were 21?

TylerSL
03-31-2011, 10:57 AM
Lebron or Shaq.

Lebron was averaging 31 PPG when he was 21 years old.

Shaq had the most dominate stretch ever for any player when he was young and he was a BEAST before he got old.

Personally tho, Shaq picked up alot of fouls, and fouled out of quite a bit of games when he was younger. With Lebron you dont have to deal with it, and he was averaging 31.4/6.6/7.0 (Points/Assists/Rebounds). That is VERY dominate, so I would choose Lebron.

COOLbeans
03-31-2011, 11:54 AM
I voted for Shaq. But anybody that didnt vote for Oneal imo should have gone with Tim Duncan. Duncan by far is the most dominant PF to ever play in the NBA. But Shaquille Oneal is too good to pass up on.

kArSoN RyDaH
03-31-2011, 05:57 PM
I don't see why anyone would want to start a franchise who tore apart 2 franchises and who's ego is bigger than himself.


He's a chemistry killer and good luck finding someone who wants to play alongside someone who NEVER once after his 2nd year in the league IMPROVED. EVER!

SteveNash
03-31-2011, 06:06 PM
I don't see why anyone would want to start a franchise who tore apart 2 franchises and who's ego is bigger than himself.


He's a chemistry killer and good luck finding someone who wants to play alongside someone who NEVER once after his 2nd year in the league IMPROVED. EVER!

Come on, I don't think you can really blame Kobe for tearing the Hornets apart.

MSU4life
03-31-2011, 06:22 PM
Shaq sooooo dominant and remotley easy to build around

smith&wesson
03-31-2011, 06:35 PM
option 1 shaq
option 2 duncan

you wont find more domination players on that list then these two. keep in mind were picking as if they were all still 21. who remembers shaq when he was 21 ? beast!!

Raidaz4Life
03-31-2011, 07:34 PM
I can't even imagine how much Shaq would dominate the league today if he came in at the age of 21.

stejay
03-31-2011, 08:48 PM
1. James
2. Shaq
3. Kobe
4. Duncan
5. CP3

COOLbeans
03-31-2011, 10:25 PM
^^ putting james above shaq, and kobe over duncan shows your age. james is not half the player nor is he close to the dominant force that was shaquille oneal.

CPJ08
03-31-2011, 11:12 PM
21 year old Shaq easily

sportscrazy34
03-31-2011, 11:15 PM
1. Shaq
2. Kobe
3. Timmy

Wild card Grant Hill

Raps18-19 Champ
03-31-2011, 11:26 PM
1. Shaq(He dominated as soon as he came into the league)
2. Duncan(Was already a great player coming in)
3. Lebron(Probably the best player left when they were all 21 and assuming we didn't know what kind of player they would have been)

knicks4life33
03-31-2011, 11:30 PM
shaq hands down. how can anybody not choose him

IceMan360
03-31-2011, 11:32 PM
1. James
2. Shaq
3. Kobe
4. Duncan
5. CP3

:facepalm:

Lebrick over Shaq and Kobe really dude wow