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John Walls Era
03-24-2011, 01:14 PM
Stan Van Gundy thinks the NBA's Most Valuable Player race already has ended —with the results preordained in favor of Derrick Rose instead of Dwight Howard.

"I don't think it's wide-open," Van Gundy said before his Orlando Magic faced the New York Knicks on Wednesday night at Madison Square Garden. "The media seems to have made their decision and they're the ones who vote. So I think it's over.

"I just listen and read: I think it's over. Derrick Rose has it. I haven't really read or heard a media guy who is going another way at this point. I'd be shocked if he doesn't win it."

Van Gundy said nobody in the league impacts as many possessions as Howard does.


LINK (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-orlando-magic-news-0324-20110323,0,5926802.story)

Hawkeye15
03-24-2011, 01:16 PM
I completely agree with him.

Avenged
03-24-2011, 01:17 PM
SVG talks too much and always states the obvious.

Raps18-19 Champ
03-24-2011, 01:19 PM
I agree that the media always decides before the season even ends.

But Rose does deserve it.

ULT WARRIOR408
03-24-2011, 01:20 PM
The Dutch-American,Ron Jeremy look-a-like is right.

Howard is in the conversation but Derrick Rose is the MVP hands down.

John Walls Era
03-24-2011, 01:34 PM
The Dutch-American,Ron Jeremy look-a-like is right.

Howard is in the conversation but Derrick Rose is the MVP hands down.

Thats not what hes saying. Hes saying that Rose is worthy for consideration, but Dwight should be the undisputed MVP since he has the most impact on his team. Hes mad that the media is spreading and falling for the "Rose Hype".

bovice163
03-24-2011, 01:45 PM
Maybe if his team doesn't live and die by the 3, they might be a seed or two higher and Dwight would be MVP.

Bullsfan22
03-24-2011, 01:45 PM
he's right.. nothing you can really comment on. I hope bulls fans dont turn this into a big thing..

Ebbs
03-24-2011, 02:00 PM
He's right . . .

Thread title is decieving.

chicago lulz
03-24-2011, 02:07 PM
:shrug:

Sadds The Gr8
03-24-2011, 02:07 PM
he's right. the MVP voting this year is a ****in joke.

jrm2054
03-24-2011, 02:12 PM
He is right

TheGiantYankee
03-24-2011, 02:14 PM
Thread title: Stan Van Gundy said Dwight Howard sucks

Real meaning: Stan Van Gundy says Derrek Rose is the media darling and Dwight can't win it despite being incredibly important to the Magic

Raph12
03-24-2011, 02:14 PM
The awards system has always been a joke, the deserving players tend not to win nearly as much as they should... Nothing new here.

Tarheels23
03-24-2011, 02:21 PM
I agree 100%

The voters decided on Rose 2 months ago. Dwight does deserve it, the season he is having is just silly.

D1JM
03-24-2011, 02:23 PM
Rose will soon get his own index in espn.

Furymaker
03-24-2011, 02:26 PM
That's truth , cut Dwight from Magic you will not have a playoff team , cut Rose from Bulls they would be around 8th seed in east , but Rose has done so much without 2 most important players on team , I'd like to see how would Dwight go without Nelson and Hedo off or J-Rich and Bass , Magic would for sure be much worse than they are now , and that's the thing about Rose , he kept winning without those players and someone could say they were better without Boozer/Noah , but if Rose doesn't win it , the other guy HAS TO be DWIGHT . It's not even the question .

yoseppii12
03-24-2011, 02:30 PM
Media already decided on Rose? How does he have the award?

I remmember when the media was set on Lebron coming to the Bulls, that didn't happen. 10-11 games left. Dwight finished with better stats than his average and they win 8 of 10 while Rose finished with stats worse than his average and they go 5-5 then he could win it. To date though, he is #2 or #3in the race

yoseppii12
03-24-2011, 02:34 PM
That's truth , cut Dwight from Magic you will not have a playoff team , cut Rose from Bulls they would be around 8th seed in east , but Rose has done so much without 2 most important players on team , I'd like to see how would Dwight go without Nelson and Hedo off or J-Rich and Bass , Magic would for sure be much worse than they are now , and that's the thing about Rose , he kept winning without those players and someone could say they were better without Boozer/Noah , but if Rose doesn't win it , the other guy HAS TO be DWIGHT . It's not even the question .

I like everything but the part I bolded. They wouldn't be 8th seed. Rose is the only guy on the team that can can create his own shot. He does it the majority of his shots. If you have a team and no one can create their own shot you're going to be terrible. Rose is by the most important player for his respective team hands down. Luckily we didnt have any stretch (knock on wood) where we had to experience what it would be like without him.

chicago lulz
03-24-2011, 02:36 PM
Didn't you guys know? Rose already has the MVP award showcased in his home.

Hawkeye15
03-24-2011, 02:38 PM
That's truth , cut Dwight from Magic you will not have a playoff team , cut Rose from Bulls they would be around 8th seed in east , but Rose has done so much without 2 most important players on team , I'd like to see how would Dwight go without Nelson and Hedo off or J-Rich and Bass , Magic would for sure be much worse than they are now , and that's the thing about Rose , he kept winning without those players and someone could say they were better without Boozer/Noah , but if Rose doesn't win it , the other guy HAS TO be DWIGHT . It's not even the question .

its the east dude. That defense would get them in the playoffs with a 6-7 seed.

Hawkeye15
03-24-2011, 02:38 PM
Didn't you guys know? Rose already has the MVP award showcased in his home.

haha

"Its sitting on his mantle. He shows it to friends"

Hawkeye15
03-24-2011, 02:39 PM
I like everything but the part I bolded. They wouldn't be 8th seed. Rose is the only guy on the team that can can create his own shot. He does it the majority of his shots. If you have a team and no one can create their own shot you're going to be terrible. Rose is by the most important player for his respective team hands down. Luckily we didnt have any stretch (knock on wood) where we had to experience what it would be like without him.

With Boozer and Deng, even with Boozer only playing half the year, and that defense, in the east, they would be in the playoffs. This isn't a slight at Rose. The top 3 teams out east are stout. But teams 5-10 are HORRIBLE.

godolphins
03-24-2011, 02:42 PM
Like I said before Dwight should be Mvp but they will give it to Rose

ackar
03-24-2011, 02:43 PM
he mad

DROSE4MVP
03-24-2011, 02:46 PM
Nothing new here. As a Bulls fan, I feel like Howard is the down-right MVP just because of his impact on the Magic and his ridiculous stats. I still feel Rose deserves it, though, as does Howard and the other candidates. Like last year, the media has already chosen the MVP which isn't fair in my eyes, as I felt Durant deserved over LeBron last year, but when you look at the past winners and see where their team finished... you'll get a better stature of where most MVP winners will be chosen.

2011 - Derrick Rose (presumably) 1st in Eastern Conference with about two weeks left in the season
2010 - LeBron James - 1st in Eastern Conference (61-21)
2009 - LeBron James - 1st in Eastern Conference (66-16)
2008 - Kobe Bryant - 1st in Western Conference (57-25)
2007 - Dirk Nowitzki - 1st in Western Conference (67-15)

See my pattern? In the majority of the time, you'll never see a player who's team is in fourth in their conference get the MVP award. It just won't happen based on the past.

THE GIPPER
03-24-2011, 02:48 PM
SVG is 100% right. Dwight is probably the most underrated player in the nba.

godolphins
03-24-2011, 02:51 PM
Nothing new here. As a Bulls fan, I feel like Howard is the down-right MVP just because of his impact on the Magic and his ridiculous stats. I still feel Rose deserves it, though, as does Howard and the other candidates. Like last year, the media has already chosen the MVP which isn't fair in my eyes, as I felt Durant deserved over LeBron last year, but when you look at the past winners and see where their team finished... you'll get a better stature of where most MVP winners will be chosen.

2011 - Derrick Rose (presumably) 1st in Eastern Conference with about two weeks left in the year.
2010 - LeBron James - 1st in Eastern Conference (61-21)
2009 - LeBron James - 1stæ
in Eastern Conference (66-16)
2008 - Kobe Bryant - 1st in Western Conference (57-25)
2007 - Dirk Nowitzki - 1st in Western Conference (67-15)

See my pattern? In the majority of the time, you'll never see a player who's team is in fourth in their conference get the MVP award. It just won't happen based on the past.
Well that's the Nba for you

Hawkeye15
03-24-2011, 02:52 PM
Nothing new here. As a Bulls fan, I feel like Howard is the down-right MVP just because of his impact on the Magic and his ridiculous stats. I still feel Rose deserves it, though, as does Howard and the other candidates. Like last year, the media has already chosen the MVP which isn't fair in my eyes, as I felt Durant deserved over LeBron last year, but when you look at the past winners and see where their team finished... you'll get a better stature of where most MVP winners will be chosen.

2011 - Derrick Rose (presumably) 1st in Eastern Conference with about two weeks left in the season
2010 - LeBron James - 1st in Eastern Conference (61-21)
2009 - LeBron James - 1st in Eastern Conference (66-16)
2008 - Kobe Bryant - 1st in Western Conference (57-25)
2007 - Dirk Nowitzki - 1st in Western Conference (67-15)

See my pattern? In the majority of the time, you'll never see a player who's team is in fourth in their conference get the MVP award. It just won't happen based on the past.

Now add in the fact that the precedent has been set that you don't need to be a top 3-5 player in the NBA with Nash and Iverson winning the MVP, and the case for Rose becomes even easier to swallow.

Pierzynski4Prez
03-24-2011, 02:54 PM
With Boozer and Deng, even with Boozer only playing half the year, and that defense, in the east, they would be in the playoffs. This isn't a slight at Rose. The top 3 teams out east are stout. But teams 5-10 are HORRIBLE.

So you're saying the following lineups are still playoff worthy?

Bulls without Boozer for 23 games:
CJ Watson
Keith Bogans
Deng
Taj Gibson
Noah

Bulls without Noah for 30 games
CJ Watson
Keith Bogans
Deng
Boozer
Kurt Thomas

I would cringe watching any team in the playoffs who's starting guards are Keith Bogans and CJ Watson.

GatorKid117
03-24-2011, 02:54 PM
Media already decided on Rose? How does he have the award?

I remmember when the media was set on Lebron coming to the Bulls, that didn't happen. 10-11 games left. Dwight finished with better stats than his average and they win 8 of 10 while Rose finished with stats worse than his average and they go 5-5 then he could win it. To date though, he is #2 or #3in the race

The failure in your logic is that the media decides who will win the MVP while LeBron decided where he would go himself. Terrible example.

ESPN came out with a piece today which every single NBA analyst agreed they had already dubbed Rose MVP prematurely. Rose has it locked up, its decided.

DROSE4MVP
03-24-2011, 02:54 PM
I'm just stating the facts... unless the Magic win out and the Heat, Celtics, and Bulls absolutely blow up late in the season, Dwight won't get it and Rose will. Don't count out LeBron though, as if the Heat pass the Celtics and catch the Bulls, he might have a chance.

Hawkeye15
03-24-2011, 02:58 PM
So you're saying the following lineups are still playoff worthy?

Bulls without Boozer for 23 games:
CJ Watson
Keith Bogans
Deng
Taj Gibson
Noah

Bulls without Noah for 30 games
CJ Watson
Keith Bogans
Deng
Boozer
Kurt Thomas

with their defense, yes. ITS THE EAST PEOPLE (where 36 wins gets you in this year). Is Rose really worth 20-22 wins by himself? Of course not

you are leaving out their great depth as well.

Again, some of you take this as a personal insult. I think the Bulls would be roadkill without Rose in the playoffs, but to say they couldn't make the playoffs with the best defense in the NBA, and Deng, Boozer (for 50 games), and the rest of the crew, is not a criticism of Rose, its a criticism of how bad the east is.

Double_R
03-24-2011, 02:59 PM
He's right . . .

Thread title is decieving.

This

JNA17
03-24-2011, 03:01 PM
Dwight has been great this year, its just a shame rose has been doing a tad better.

Cool007
03-24-2011, 03:02 PM
I agree 100%

The voters decided on Rose 2 months ago. Dwight does deserve it, the season he is having is just silly.

I am putting this in bold so everyone can see it and see the whole picture.

Yes, they might have but they also had LeBron 2nd, Dirk 3rd and Dwight 4th about 2 months ago.

Now, Rose is still 1st, Dwight is 2nd, Kobe/Dirk tied for 3rd, LeBron and Durant after that.

Why is Rose still up there at the top??? Bulls HAVE NOT LOST 3-IN-A-ROW yet all season and Bulls even with Boozer and Noah missing games left and right, they are ACTUALLY MOVING UP in the standing. This is why Rose is still leading and has been for last 3 or so months now. While Dwight and Magic have underachieved and are 4th seed while they were 2nd seed previous year with 59 wins.

MVP is basically a CLEAR TOP DOG player on a top 1/2 seeded team - that is actually doing MUCH BETTER than expected. That's why Rose is fav and Dwight is 2nd (coz he is a monster).

Hawkeye15
03-24-2011, 03:03 PM
Dwight has been great this year, its just a shame rose has been doing a tad better.

his TEAM has done a tad better.

AddiX
03-24-2011, 03:06 PM
I actually agree with Stan, rose will get it no matter what.

Orlando has am entire team almost of players no one wants except Howard and Nelson. I think Howard should get it.

Double_R
03-24-2011, 03:11 PM
As far as DH impacting more possessions than anyone... that is spot on. Dude is an absolute beast and changes more plays, shots, gameplans, etc. than anyone on both sides of the court, period.

In Orlando's current 4 game winning streak, he is absolutely dominating averaging 27 pts, 17 reb, 2.8 ast, 2.8 stl, 3.8 blks. Obviously that is just a small sample size, but still impressive to be filling it up across the board for a center.

his TEAM has done a tad better.

This is the only reason.

Cool007
03-24-2011, 03:11 PM
with their defense, yes. ITS THE EAST PEOPLE (where 36 wins gets you in this year). Is Rose really worth 20-22 wins by himself? Of course not

you are leaving out their great depth as well.

Again, some of you take this as a personal insult. I think the Bulls would be roadkill without Rose in the playoffs, but to say they couldn't make the playoffs with the best defense in the NBA, and Deng, Boozer (for 50 games), and the rest of the crew, is not a criticism of Rose, its a criticism of how bad the east is.

Tell that to Bucks team.

Without Rose, I am not even sure Bulls would be even #1 in defense either. CJ is NOT a Point Guard, he can't set people up other than here and there to Korver and Asik (but that is still against other team's bench players). If he had the load for the entire season, he would crumble along with Deng and Boozer.

Deng would nowhere near be this good if Rose was NOT in the lineup. Boozer is good at times but he is also not consistent and dominant enough that he would do anything that great. Not to mention BUlls would have Kurt Thomas and Keith Bogans in the starting lineup who also can't score.

The offense would be ABYSMAL. We would have probably 100x thread on why did we sign Boozer again? Deng is so pathetic overpaid, Trade Noah, who can't stay healthy, we need a PG, we need a scorer in the backcourt. etc etc.

Bulls would be closer to Milwaukee Bucks and Nets than closer to making playoffs.

Pierzynski4Prez
03-24-2011, 03:15 PM
I actually agree with Stan, rose will get it no matter what.

Orlando has am entire team almost of players no one wants except Howard and Nelson. I think Howard should get it.

Nobody wants because of their contract? Or because of their talent? Because if contracts weren't an issue, I would gladly take Hedo, Anderson, Bass, J. Richardson, arenas. Hell, even JJ and Q. There is plenty of talent on that roster, make no mistake.

D Roses Bulls
03-24-2011, 03:16 PM
With Boozer and Deng, even with Boozer only playing half the year, and that defense, in the east, they would be in the playoffs. This isn't a slight at Rose. The top 3 teams out east are stout. But teams 5-10 are HORRIBLE.

so the hawks are horrible? they have been in a big slump lately but they have a lot of talent on that team and I would not consider them horrible. and if I were you, I wouldn't sleep on the sixers or the pacers either.

Hawkeye15
03-24-2011, 03:18 PM
so the hawks are horrible? they have been in a big slump lately but they have a lot of talent on that team and I would not consider them horrible. and if I were you, I wouldn't sleep on the sixers or the pacers either.

the Hawks are roadkill come playoff time

Ok, i won't sleep on a 36 team in the east...

Chronz
03-24-2011, 03:20 PM
Tell that to Bucks team.
Bucks team responds by saying they dont have the best defensive team in the league


Without Rose, I am not even sure Bulls would be even #1 in defense either.
I seriously doubt that


Deng would nowhere near be this good if Rose was NOT in the lineup.
Then why has he been able to produce at a higher rate before Rose?

Shmontaine
03-24-2011, 03:20 PM
Rose hater created this thread... big surprise...

tell me, what MVP winner had a team record that wasn't top 3 in the league?? or does that not count this year...

The drose hate has people talking about how great the bulls 'team' is... lol... you'll run out of excuses eventually...

THE GIPPER
03-24-2011, 03:21 PM
so the hawks are horrible? they have been in a big slump lately but they have a lot of talent on that team and I would not consider them horrible. and if I were you, I wouldn't sleep on the sixers or the pacers either.

The pacers are 32-40 and the sixers are 37-34. Not very impressive at all especially in the east.

Double_R
03-24-2011, 03:21 PM
Put it this way:
If you were doing a draft where you had to pick from the Magic and the Bulls(Excluding DH & DR), how many Magic players are in your top 3???

D Roses Bulls
03-24-2011, 03:21 PM
his TEAM has done a tad better.

when you lose boozer/noah for a combined 50 games, I wouldn't say it's just his team. I owuld suggest you look at what I wrote you yesterday in the mvp thread that you didn't reply too. nate archibald led the league in scoring and assists at one time at 34 ppg and 11asts and he didnt even finish in the top 3. personal stats are not what the award is just about. you gotta consider the intangibles and the situation and I would say with the situation that rose was put into this year with missing noah and boozer for a combined 50 games, he had it a little rougher don't you think? lets see if the magic lost nelson and say bass or richardson where they would be.

nyyfan4life
03-24-2011, 03:22 PM
I'd definitely vote for Dwight Howard well before Derrick Rose for MVP.

THE GIPPER
03-24-2011, 03:23 PM
when you lose boozer/noah for a combined 50 games, I wouldn't say it's just his team. I owuld suggest you look at what I wrote you yesterday in the mvp thread that you didn't reply too. nate archibald led the league in scoring and assists at one time at 34 ppg and 11asts and he didnt even finish in the top 3. personal stats are not what the award is just about. you gotta consider the intangibles and the situation and I would say with the situation that rose was put into this year with missing noah and boozer for a combined 50 games, he had it a little rougher don't you think? lets see if the magic lost nelson and say bass or richardson where they would be.

They would be completely fine because dwight is what makes them go.

D Roses Bulls
03-24-2011, 03:23 PM
The pacers are 32-40 and the sixers are 37-34. Not very impressive at all especially in the east.

the pacers had injuries this year, ever since the coach was fired they have been playing a lot better. they started out hot and slumped real bad with injuries and horrible coaching. they are underrated right now. dont let the record fool you and I do not have to tell you lately what the sixers have been doing in the last couple months. those two teams are coming on at the right time. the celtics finished third last year in the east and made it to the finals. record isnt everything.

Hawkeye15
03-24-2011, 03:25 PM
when you lose boozer/noah for a combined 50 games, I wouldn't say it's just his team. I owuld suggest you look at what I wrote you yesterday in the mvp thread that you didn't reply too. nate archibald led the league in scoring and assists at one time at 34 ppg and 11asts and he didnt even finish in the top 3. personal stats are not what the award is just about. you gotta consider the intangibles and the situation and I would say with the situation that rose was put into this year with missing noah and boozer for a combined 50 games, he had it a little rougher don't you think? lets see if the magic lost nelson and say bass or richardson where they would be.

I understand all the scenarios dude. But Dwight will be penalized for not being part of a great storyline, and a few wins, DESPITE having a much more dominant season on both ends. Look at Dwight's roster, and they had a complete overhaul midseason. How does Dwight not have some of the strongest "intangibles" in the NBA?

I get it. You want Rose to win MVP, and you will do whatever you need to in order to justify it. And it won't surprise me, or upset me at all. The precedents are all there.

But it belongs to Dwight. And he won't get it. Oh well.

D Roses Bulls
03-24-2011, 03:25 PM
They would be completely fine because dwight is what makes them go.

really? then I guess you need to watch the magic more cause nelson won at least 3-5 games for the magic this year by himself and bass has been real big this year as well.

WickedBadMan
03-24-2011, 03:25 PM
It's everything when deciding who is in the playoffs.

Hawkeye15
03-24-2011, 03:26 PM
the pacers had injuries this year, ever since the coach was fired they have been playing a lot better. they started out hot and slumped real bad with injuries and horrible coaching. they are underrated right now. dont let the record fool you and I do not have to tell you lately what the sixers have been doing in the last couple months. those two teams are coming on at the right time. the celtics finished third last year in the east and made it to the finals. record isnt everything.

omg dude, EVERY team has things happen to them EVERY year.

Why do you pump so many excuses into your posts sometimes? The FKIN WOLVES beat them by 26 points a couple weeks back. Nobody should be scared of them.

THE GIPPER
03-24-2011, 03:26 PM
the pacers had injuries this year, ever since the coach was fired they have been playing a lot better. they started out hot and slumped real bad with injuries and horrible coaching. they are underrated right now. dont let the record fool you and I do not have to tell you lately what the sixers have been doing in the last couple months. those two teams are coming on at the right time. the celtics finished third last year in the east and made it to the finals. record isnt everything.

If the bolded line is true, then dwight should win MVP.

D Roses Bulls
03-24-2011, 03:27 PM
I understand all the scenarios dude. But Dwight will be penalized for not being part of a great storyline, and a few wins, DESPITE having a much more dominant season on both ends. Look at Dwight's roster, and they had a complete overhaul midseason. How does Dwight not have some of the strongest "intangibles" in the NBA?

I get it. You want Rose to win MVP, and you will do whatever you need to in order to justify it. And it won't surprise me, or upset me at all. The precedents are all there.

But it belongs to Dwight. And he won't get it. Oh well.

if you give it to dwight for having a 4th place team thats not meeting expectations that were set for them. then wade deserved it last year with less talent then what dwight has this year and the stats he put up cause he finished 4th place and that was the knock on wade last year was the seeding.

THE GIPPER
03-24-2011, 03:28 PM
really? then I guess you need to watch the magic more cause nelson won at least 3-5 games for the magic this year by himself and bass has been real big this year as well.

By himself? No way dude.

Double_R
03-24-2011, 03:29 PM
when you lose boozer/noah for a combined 50 games, I wouldn't say it's just his team. I owuld suggest you look at what I wrote you yesterday in the mvp thread that you didn't reply too. nate archibald led the league in scoring and assists at one time at 34 ppg and 11asts and he didnt even finish in the top 3. personal stats are not what the award is just about. you gotta consider the intangibles and the situation and I would say with the situation that rose was put into this year with missing noah and boozer for a combined 50 games, he had it a little rougher don't you think? lets see if the magic lost nelson and say bass or richardson where they would be.

They did lose Bass for a while, they played with like 10 players having some stomach bug for like 4 or 5 games(during that skid that led to trades, they played with like half a team for a couple games because of the trades), they completely changed their entire starting lineup after a month. So they start the entire season from scratch. Dwight has had to deal with just as much as losing Noah and Boozer.

D Roses Bulls
03-24-2011, 03:29 PM
If the bolded line is true, then dwight should win MVP.

and thats an argument ive made before why the mvp award should be awarded at the end of the playoffs. i know they have a finals mvp, but i think they should just award the mvp at the end of the playoffs personally cause dwight could carry the team to the finals, we dont know whats going to happen.

D Roses Bulls
03-24-2011, 03:32 PM
They did lose Bass for a while, they played with like 10 players having some stomach bug for like 4 or 5 games(during that skid that led to trades, they played with like half a team for a couple games because of the trades), they completely changed their entire starting lineup after a month. So they start the entire season from scratch. Dwight has had to deal with just as much as losing Noah and Boozer.

I dont know about that but losing guys for 5 games and bass for 5 games. thats no where near close to losing two guys of boozer and noahs caliber for a combined 50 games. thats my opinion though.

IversonIsKrazy
03-24-2011, 03:32 PM
I don't understand how ppl can say MVP has always been a joke. They have given it to the player who deserves it every year... LeBron deserved it the years he got it, as did Dirk, Kobe etc. Rose deserves it this year, u can make an argument for Dwight no doubt... but Noah/Boozer combined to miss 50 games, and it didn't make a difference on the record. Bulls are #1 seed right now, Boozer didn't play a single game until mid-December, Noah missed from December - February. Rose is the reason the Bulls are who they are now, his 25/8/4 has lifted the Bulls and are now possible contenders. Rose deserves it. Here's the difference...

Chicago: If Rose has horrible game, Bulls don't win. They rely on him more than anything
Orlando: If the 3 is falling, they win. If the 3 doesn't fall, they lose. Then it's relying on Dwight. Orlando relies more on the 3 than Dwight, which is why Rose deserves MVP more than Dwight

Gators123
03-24-2011, 03:34 PM
Dwight deserves it, Rose will win it.

NIUHuskies
03-24-2011, 03:35 PM
Game plan to beat orlando is to let Dwight score and limit the 3pt shooting.

Game plan to beat chicago is to try to limit DRose.

D Roses Bulls
03-24-2011, 03:35 PM
By himself? No way dude.

did you not see the knicks games a couple weeks ago when nelson scored like 20 points in the 4th and I think it was the game after where he took over the game again and that was just in the same week. and the other games he hit the game winners in the other 2-3 games.

REGular
03-24-2011, 03:36 PM
Yeah, the more I think about it the more annoyed I'm getting about Rose being crowned MVP by the media.

Rose is so far from the best player in the NBA this season.
He's getting the award for being the best player on the biggest surprise team this season and, regardless of one's personal MVP definition, that's never the reason given for this award.

If Rose was playing out of his mind great and carried this team then I would understand the logic, but he isn't Top 5 in scoring, and he's just Top 10 in assists.
The Bulls are winning all of these games b/c of their defense and I don't believe Rose is leading the Bulls on that front.

Shmontaine
03-24-2011, 03:36 PM
Yep... Maybe Stan should've worried about coaching his 'team' to a few more wins instead of complaining every day... he should know that its also a team record award as much an MVP award... He's really breaking new knowledge to the world. the magic have the 8th best record in the league, how is that MVP worthy, they're in the 75th percentile... but the other 7 teams above the magic don't have better players... okay..

THE GIPPER
03-24-2011, 03:37 PM
I don't understand how ppl can say MVP has always been a joke. They have given it to the player who deserves it every year... LeBron deserved it the years he got it, as did Dirk, Kobe etc. Rose deserves it this year, u can make an argument for Dwight no doubt... but Noah/Boozer combined to miss 50 games, and it didn't make a difference on the record. Bulls are #1 seed right now, Boozer didn't play a single game until mid-December, Noah missed from December - February. Rose is the reason the Bulls are who they are now, his 25/8/4 has lifted the Bulls and are now possible contenders. Rose deserves it. Here's the difference...

Chicago: If Rose has horrible game, Bulls don't win. They rely on him more than anything
Orlando: If the 3 is falling, they win. If the 3 doesn't fall, they lose. Then it's relying on Dwight. Orlando relies more on the 3 than Dwight, which is why Rose deserves MVP more than Dwight

Last week the magic beat the nuggets (who are very hot right now) while shooting 9-25 from 3.

D Roses Bulls
03-24-2011, 03:37 PM
Game plan to beat orlando is to let Dwight score and limit the 3pt shooting.

Game plan to beat chicago is to try to limit DRose.

correct. when the bulls were blown out by the magic, they tried to stop dwight and the other games they won they let dwight score and focused stopping the 3 ball.

Sync
03-24-2011, 03:37 PM
cOOL

D Roses Bulls
03-24-2011, 03:39 PM
again, if you think dwight deserves it this year then wade should of won it last year playing with less talent then dwight while putting up REALLY good numbers.

Shmontaine
03-24-2011, 03:39 PM
Yeah, the more I think about it the more annoyed I'm getting about Rose being crowned MVP by the media.

Rose is so far from the best player in the NBA this season.
He's getting the award for being the best player on the biggest surprise team this season and, regardless of one's personal MVP definition, that's never the reason given for this award.

If Rose was playing out of his mind great and carried this team then I would understand the logic, but he isn't Top 5 in scoring, and he's just Top 10 in assists.
The Bulls are winning all of these games b/c of their defense and I don't believe Rose is leading the Bulls on that front.

really?? the 76ers are the biggest surprise team this year.. sorry...
the bulls are one of the best teams, i think that's what you meant to say.

THE GIPPER
03-24-2011, 03:40 PM
Game plan to beat orlando is to let Dwight score and limit the 3pt shooting.
Game plan to beat chicago is to try to limit DRose.

Then why is dwight double-teammed every time he touches the ball?

REGular
03-24-2011, 03:41 PM
really?? the 76ers are the biggest surprise team this year.. sorry...
the bulls are one of the best teams, i think that's what you meant to say.

Oops, the Bulls fan had them ranked #1 in the East going into the season so it's not a surprise . . .

Double_R
03-24-2011, 03:42 PM
I dont know about that but losing guys for 5 games and bass for 5 games. thats no where near close to losing two guys of boozer and noahs caliber for a combined 50 games. thats my opinion though.

I agree with you there, but combine losing all those guys at different times with completely making over your team with no practice time or anything. To me that out ways losing those 2 guys mostly at different times. Not to mention that Boozer had never played with the Bulls before so it wasn't like he was missing. The Bulls were a playoff team last year, it's not like they weren't good.

Hawkeye15
03-24-2011, 03:43 PM
If any member of the Bulls should win MVP, it should be Thibs

NIUHuskies
03-24-2011, 03:45 PM
Then why is dwight double-teammed every time he touches the ball?

To make it harder for him to score. To make him make decisions instead of going to one of his two post moves. To make it difficult on him.

Teams send the guy who isn't guarding a 3pt shooter.

Double_R
03-24-2011, 03:46 PM
The only reason the Magic are such a 3pt shooting team is because there is usually someone open because Dwight is usually doubled and tripled by a combo of just about everyone on the other team throughout the game. That is one more thing that DH has to deal with that Rose does not. He is doubled almost all game, every game.

D Roses Bulls
03-24-2011, 03:47 PM
If any member of the Bulls should win MVP, it should be Thibs

oh come on now. thats like saying doc rivers is a great coach when that man was about to be fired before the kg and allen trades. I do believe thibs was on docs staff at the time when doc was almost fired. i think thibs is a good coach, but he's not the one on the floor defending these guys or scoring the points. so adding thibs, boozer, korver, brewer and watson catapulted the bulls from 8th seed to 1st?

NIUHuskies
03-24-2011, 03:48 PM
The only reason the Magic are such a 3pt shooting team is because there is usually someone open because Dwight is usually doubled and tripled by a combo of just about everyone on the other team throughout the game. That is one more thing that DH has to deal with that Rose does not. He is doubled almost all game, every game.

You are right. DRose never sees more then one guy on his way to the rim.

gotoHcarolina52
03-24-2011, 03:51 PM
Derrick Rose the MVP? :laugh::laugh::laugh: Good one.

D1JM
03-24-2011, 03:51 PM
Then why has he been able to produce at a higher rate before Rose?

It's called the vinny del Negro effect. Also injuries.

Shmontaine
03-24-2011, 03:51 PM
Whatever, done arguing with children... drose deserves MVP, howard doesn't, he costs his team by the techs he gets/ suspensions he gets

qks19
03-24-2011, 03:51 PM
ive noticed over the years the the van gundy brothers are the dumbest most annoying guys in the NBA. they never shut up and there Homers. they only think there players or friends should win the award. i can name like 3 other players that should win the mvp over dwight.

1.rose
2.durant
3.kobe

Shmontaine
03-24-2011, 03:52 PM
Derrick Rose the MVP? :laugh::laugh::laugh: Good one.

i like your sig, those were the good ol days for the heatles..

Double_R
03-24-2011, 03:52 PM
You are right. DRose never sees more then one guy on his way to the rim.

If that is what you got out of that, you have drank too much Kool-Aid.

MJ-BULLS
03-24-2011, 03:53 PM
If any member of the Bulls should win MVP, it should be Thibs

nah, COY is the award for him.

If not for Rose this team would be discombobulated.

D1JM
03-24-2011, 03:54 PM
You are right. DRose never sees more then one guy on his way to the rim.

He never does. It's always one defender on rose

Mile High Champ
03-24-2011, 03:54 PM
Howard is still my MVP, I have been beyond impressed what he has done to improve this year.

northsider
03-24-2011, 03:54 PM
As a Bulls fan I guess I am bias but, Rose winning the MVP shouldn't be this big of a deal to everyone and I don't see why people are getting butt hurt. Rose has had a great season obviously not as good STATISTICALLY as DH but, none the less Rose has delivered a great performance and is the leader of a 1st seed team.

I really don't see what the big deal is.

Shmontaine
03-24-2011, 03:56 PM
Howard is still my MVP, I have been beyond impressed what he has done to improve this year.

nobody's taking that from you. drose is the NBA's MVP.. many more have been more impressed with what drose has done this year.

magichatnumber9
03-24-2011, 03:58 PM
MVP, MIP, CoTY,ROTY. Who cares man. It's all about hoisting that trophy up at the end. Nothing matters but that. All that other stuff is contract swag

Hawkeye15
03-24-2011, 03:58 PM
It's called the vinny del Negro effect. Also injuries.

and Mike Brown was such a brilliant basketball mind...

Geargo Wallace
03-24-2011, 03:58 PM
Whatever, done arguing with children... drose deserves MVP, howard doesn't, he costs his team by the techs he gets/ suspensions he gets

That doesn't mean anything.

I think John Paxon deserves MVP.

Cool007
03-24-2011, 03:58 PM
If any member of the Bulls should win MVP, it should be Thibs

So we are finding creative ways to discredit what Rose is doing now???

Thibs is great for defense but he has also cost Bulls some games with his stubbornness and stupidness but none of the other teams fans would see that as they dont' watch Bulls every game. We DO.

If Thibs is responsible for defense then Rose is responsible for offense and late game situations where he carries the team.

For example, Pop has been the best coach candidate for COY this year and team is doing great but now that Tim Duncan is out, do you see Spurs winning many games??? Even though Duncan is not his old himself.

The team's best player/leader/franchise player is actually MORE important than a coach. Coach can teach whatever or draw up whatever, it's upto your best player to go out there and carry the team. That is what Rose is doing.

But people will find any way they can do diminish what Rose is doing to prove their case.

I love Dwight and he would be the MVP if he had his team winning as much as they did last year. As a leader, you are responsible for both success and failure. You don't need your OWN stats but you need to elevate your whole team and you would be MVP.

He is right there very close 2nd but as a #1, it's Rose.

NIUHuskies
03-24-2011, 03:59 PM
If that is what you got out of that, you have drank too much Kool-Aid.

My red Kool-Aid lips notwithstanding...

I think it's kind of crazy how no one seems to recognize that DRose has carried his team to where they are now. The losses of Boozer and Noah should have had a bigger impact both offensively and defensively during the time they were out. The one constant was DRose the other constant was the Bulls continuing to win.

I get D12's team had a huge makeover mid-season, but the Bulls true starters they will take to the playoffs have barely played with each other this season. DRose sees plenty of double teams, sometimes 40 feet from the basket as he crosses the half-court line.

The improvements in DRose's game this season have been incredible (FT and 3pt stand out). D12 is having a great season, but there is a reason there is a story for the media to get behind and that is because of the MVP.

Sadds The Gr8
03-24-2011, 04:00 PM
haven't chipped in much to the Rose vs Howard MVP debate but i'll put in my 2 cents. While Howard has had the healthier team, he still carries the Magic on BOTH sides of the ball, which gives him a greater impact, because you have to scheme for him offensively and defensively. The guy has his team near the top in defense, and he's the ONLY good defender on the team (defensively, Nelson sucks, Jrich sucks, Turk sucks, Redick sucks, Arenas sucks, Anderson sucks...). The Magic 3pt shooting is not as deadly as it was a few years ago either, so Howard needed to take on a bigger offensive role and has done it. Even though the Magic still have good 3pt shooting, it all revolves around Howard. Without Howard's inside presence, there's pretty much ZERO open looks for the Magic shooters.

Rose, while carrying the offense, does NOT carry the defense, and is probably the worst defender in his starting lineup. While many will argue that Rose carries the offense of the Bulls, he GETS carried on the defensive end by great coaching, great wing defenders (Brewer, Bogans, Deng, etc...), and a good anchor in Noah inside. And even though his team may not have enough scorers, they still chip in well enough for the team to win, while playing top notch defense. Without Rose, the rest of the team will still have it's main weapon, which is it's ability to play defense. Without Howard, the rest of the Magic WON'T have the ability to use their main weapon, which is the 3pt shooting, because they'll be guarded tightly and won't be open w/o D12's presence. They'd also get ABSOLUTELY DESTROYED on the defensive end because they have no defenders at all other than D12. So Howard's presence affects the Magic on BOTH sides of the ball in a HUGE way.

Bulls fans may claim "oh without Rose, there's no offense. And Dwight has 3pt shooting to help him out". But you guys also have to consider this -- Without all those great defenders, Rose would be exposed on a nightly basis on the defensive end. Those defenders mean just as much (even probably more because defense is very important) as the Magic's 3pt shooters. So the argument goes both ways.

Overall, I think Howard should be the MVP, but the past shows that the best player on the best team wins. I know Chicago doesn't have the best record, but San Antonio doesn't have a clear cut MVP candidate since their team is well balanced on both sides of the ball, so their players get overlooked.

SteveNash
03-24-2011, 04:01 PM
and Mike Brown was such a brilliant basketball mind...

Brown could at least coach defense, and he had better assistants. Del Negro was completely clueless.

MJ-BULLS
03-24-2011, 04:04 PM
haven't chipped in much to the Rose vs Howard MVP debate but i'll put in my 2 cents. While Howard has had the healthier team, he still carries the Magic on BOTH sides of the ball, which gives him a greater impact, because you have to scheme for him offensively and defensively. The guy has his team near the top in defense, and he's the ONLY good defender on the team (defensively, Nelson sucks, Jrich sucks, Turk sucks, Redick sucks, Arenas sucks, Anderson sucks...). The Magic 3pt shooting is not as deadly as it was a few years ago either, so Howard needed to take on a bigger offensive role and has done it. Even though the Magic still have good 3pt shooting, it all revolves around Howard. Without Howard's inside presence, there's pretty much ZERO open looks for the Magic shooters.

Rose, while carrying the offense, does NOT carry the defense, and is probably the worst defender in his starting lineup. While many will argue that Rose carries the offense of the Bulls, he GETS carried on the defensive end by great coaching, great wing defenders (Brewer, Bogans, Deng, etc...), and a good anchor in Noah inside. And even though his team may not have enough scorers, they still chip in well enough for the team to win, while playing top notch defense. Without Rose, the rest of the team will still have it's main weapon, which is it's ability to play defense. Without Howard, the rest of the Magic WON'T have the ability to use their main weapon, which is the 3pt shooting, because they'll be guarded tightly and won't be open w/o D12's presence. They'd also get ABSOLUTELY DESTROYED on the defensive end because they have no defenders at all other than D12. So Howard's presence affects the Magic on BOTH sides of the ball in a HUGE way.

Bulls fans may claim "oh without Rose, there's no offense. And Dwight has 3pt shooting to help him out". But you guys also have to consider this -- Without all those great defenders, Rose would be exposed on a nightly basis on the defensive end. Those defenders mean just as much (even probably more because defense is very important) as the Magic's 3pt shooters. So the argument goes both ways.

Overall, I think Howard should be the MVP, but the past shows that the best player on the best team wins. I know Chicago doesn't have the best record, but San Antonio doesn't have a clear cut MVP candidate since their team is well balanced on both sides of the ball, so their players get overlooked.

Actually Roses defense has improved over the last couple of years, it was so bad that everybody assumes its still the same, but time and time again he has stepped up agains the best PG's in the game and shut them out. plus, he isn't even the worst defensive starting player on the team, boozer is.

Chronz
03-24-2011, 04:06 PM
nobody's taking that from you. drose is the NBA's MVP.. many more have been more impressed with what drose has done this year.

So where do you rank their decision? Where does Rose's MVP campaign rank? Up there with Unseld?

Geargo Wallace
03-24-2011, 04:07 PM
I think DRose has a top 3 supporting cast in the league. He's pretty sheltered compared to a DHoward whose team depends on his defensive and offensive production more than any player in the league. I think the media is making DRose the flavour of the year since they already decided in the offseason that LeBron isn't going to get it, no matter how well he plays.

KG2TB
03-24-2011, 04:08 PM
If any member of the Bulls should win MVP, it should be Thibs

:laugh2:

Right. Cause take Rose off the team and Thibs would will them to victory right? C'mon man...I think Thibs deserves COY but I think the award will go to Pop. Not gonna spew out nonsense like the statement you made because of it.

It's pretty simple, when you're a 4th seeded team in a supposedly weak eastern conference and your team has REGRESSED you do not deserve the MVP award. Dwight dominates the majority of the game but when it comes down to crunch time they really don't have a go to scorer. He can't do things in clutch situations that to me, are necessary of an MVP. Great season, amazing player, but if someone could explain to me how you take a step backwards in the standings and don't meet expectations and still deserve MVP I'd like to hear it.

Sadds The Gr8
03-24-2011, 04:08 PM
Actually Roses defense has improved over the last couple of years, it was so bad that everybody assumes its still the same, but time and time again he has stepped up agains the best PG's in the game and shut them out. plus, he isn't even the worst defensive starting player on the team, boozer is.


ok fine 2nd worst defender in the lineup. it doesn't change the fact he gets carried on the defensive end. Howard carries the magic on both sides of the ball, and it's not even debatable. Without Howard how would the Magic score or play defense? I bet you couldn't say who the 2nd leading scorer on the Magic is w/o looking it up.

JARVIS123
03-24-2011, 04:09 PM
take away rose from the bulls,the bulls still a good team. take away howard, the magic sucks. with that being said howard is the true mvp.

5ass
03-24-2011, 04:09 PM
its funny how bulls fans think drose is hands down the MVP.. they both deserve recognition and so does lebron, but i still think howard should win it over rose.. 2 reasons why? rose is not very efficient in scoring and he is inconsistent on defense.. if u are able to limit rose to under 40% from the field uve done a good job and ur going to slow down the bulls a lot.. with howard u can try to make him shoot less than 50% it rarely happens but even if it does he is still out there getting offensive rebounds and carrying his team on the defensive end, not only can he guard his man well but he is also one of the best if not the best help defenders in the NBA..

Tarheels23
03-24-2011, 04:09 PM
Is it possible for the people who run this site to lock Bulls fans out of this discussion?

It is pretty obvious how they feel, and I think all of us are interested in what other people have to say regarding this topic.

DROSE4MVP
03-24-2011, 04:11 PM
^ If you don't like it, don't talk about it. There's a lot of Bulls fans on this forum, so I would suggest you just deal with it.

NIUHuskies
03-24-2011, 04:11 PM
I think DRose has a top 3 supporting cast in the league. He's pretty sheltered compared to a DHoward whose team depends on his defensive and offensive production more than any player in the league. I think the media is making DRose the flavour of the year since they already decided in the offseason that LeBron isn't going to get it, no matter how well he plays.

Love the clip in your sig. How the guy that gets hit slowly sinks back into the trash can gets me every time.

Double_R
03-24-2011, 04:11 PM
Did anyone watch what Howard did to Amare lastnight(6-20, 13pts, while dropping 11-15, 33 pts on the other end. That is what he does every night. Drose is an amazing talent, but he has no where near the impact overall that Howard has.

northsider
03-24-2011, 04:11 PM
ok fine 2nd worst defender in the lineup. it doesn't change the fact he gets carried on the defensive end. Howard carries the magic on both sides of the ball, and it's not even debatable. Without Howard how would the Magic score or play defense? I bet you couldn't say who the 2nd leading scorer on the Magic is w/o looking it up.

For the love of god he isn't a ****ing bad defender anymore this has been said a million times. He doesn't get "Carried" by the rest of the team he holds his own. Also being one of the best defensive units in the NBA and not being the best defender on that team does not mean you are bad I don't get why people don't understand this.

5ass
03-24-2011, 04:13 PM
:laugh2:

Right. Cause take Rose off the team and Thibs would will them to victory right? C'mon man...I think Thibs deserves COY but I think the award will go to Pop. Not gonna spew out nonsense like the statement you made because of it.

It's pretty simple, when you're a 4th seeded team in a supposedly weak eastern conference and your team has REGRESSED you do not deserve the MVP award. Dwight dominates the majority of the game but when it comes down to crunch time they really don't have a go to scorer. He can't do things in clutch situations that to me, are necessary of an MVP. Great season, amazing player, but if someone could explain to me how you take a step backwards in the standings and don't meet expectations and still deserve MVP I'd like to hear it.

u make 2 huge trades that change most of ur roster midseason?

Sadds The Gr8
03-24-2011, 04:13 PM
For the love of god he isn't a ****ing bad defender anymore this has been said a million times. He doesn't get "Carried" by the rest of the team he holds his own. Also being one of the best defensive units in the NBA and not being the best defender on that team does not mean you are bad I don't get why people don't understand this.

it doesn't mean that he's bad, but it also doesn't mean he is good or great. Howard has the Magic as a top defensive unit BY HIMSELF. Rose has a plethora of good wing defenders playing right beside him. I'm pretty sure without the great defenders by his side he'd be exposed alot more. Howard would be a defensive beast on any team.

Tony_Starks
03-24-2011, 04:15 PM
Most of us pretty much knew that whoever got the best record was getting the MVP. The writers pretty much strictly go by "best player on the best team." It was always between Rose and Howard but when it started looking like Bulls were really a threat to get #1 and Orlando was pretty much locked into 3-4 that sealed the deal.

I personally would give it to Dwight but Im not mad at D Rose getting it at all, he's been ballin out of control.

I just wish Orlando would've did that trade before training camp started so they would've been ready from the gate.

MJ-BULLS
03-24-2011, 04:16 PM
ok fine 2nd worst defender in the lineup. it doesn't change the fact he gets carried on the defensive end. Howard carries the magic on both sides of the ball, and it's not even debatable. Without Howard how would the Magic score or play defense? I bet you couldn't say who the 2nd leading scorer on the Magic is w/o looking it up.

I understand that Howard is the magic, and without him they will be a really bad team. He def deserves some pub as a MVP, but he will not win it because his team hasnt won enough.

but same can be said for rose, with out him how would we score the rock and play defense.

Sadds The Gr8
03-24-2011, 04:18 PM
I understand that Howard is the magic, and without him they will be a really bad team. He def deserves some pub as a MVP, but he will not win it because his team hasnt won enough.

but same can be said for rose, with out him how would we score the rock and play defense.

that's exactly my argument. Would they struggle offensively without Rose? hell yea. Would they struggle defensively? hell no. I'm pretty sure CJ Watson could do what Rose does on the defensive end. And the whole "his team doesn't win enough" is a media gig...his team's record is still pretty damn good it's not like they're lurking near .500

KG2TB
03-24-2011, 04:20 PM
u make 2 huge trades that change most of ur roster midseason?

Yeah but they got talent back. They got Turk back who everyone thought was the missing piece. They got J-Rich, they got talent back. Last year the Bulls DUMPED talent and were still able to finish with the same record they did the previous year. It's a bit of an excuse I would say.

The Bulls brought in a new coach, added 8 new faces to the team, started the season without Boozer, were learning a new system, didn't have Noah for 2 months and we're still in first place. Why? Because of Rose and also brilliant coaching from Thibs...but the best player is always more important than the coach. If people wanna ignore these things and make excuses for why the Magic are in 4th than it's not a conversation worth having.

nyyfan4life
03-24-2011, 04:20 PM
PER

Rose: 23.3
Howard: 26.3

WS (Win Shares)

Rose: 10.8
Howard: 12.9

EFF

Rose: 22.84
Howard: 28.67

Dwight Howard:

23.1 PPG
14.2 RPG
2.4 BPG
1.6 SPG

Derrick Rose:

24.9 PPG
7.8 APG
4.2 RPG
1.1 SPG

Next 2 best players on the Magic: Brandon Bass (5.7 WS/16.4 PER) and Jameer Nelson (5.6 WS/15.1 PER)

Next 2 best players on the Bulls: Luol Deng (8.7 WS) and Carlos Boozer (19.7 PER)

Basically Dwight Howard has been more impressive individually, has a worse supporting cast and is more important to his team.

Hawkeye15
03-24-2011, 04:20 PM
Brown could at least coach defense, and he had better assistants. Del Negro was completely clueless.

I can live with that, but Brown didn't help LeBron develop really. That was on LeBron

hugepatsfan
03-24-2011, 04:21 PM
Most of us pretty much knew that whoever got the best record was getting the MVP. The writers pretty much strictly go by "best player on the best team." It was always between Rose and Howard but when it started looking like Bulls were really a threat to get #1 and Orlando was pretty much locked into 3-4 that sealed the deal.

I personally would give it to Dwight but Im not mad at D Rose getting it at all, he's been ballin out of control.

I just wish Orlando would've did that trade before training camp started so they would've been ready from the gate.

This X1000. I think Dwight should get it. But Rose is certainly having a great year and a him winning it isn't by any means a travesty.

Hawkeye15
03-24-2011, 04:22 PM
:laugh2:

Right. Cause take Rose off the team and Thibs would will them to victory right? C'mon man...I think Thibs deserves COY but I think the award will go to Pop. Not gonna spew out nonsense like the statement you made because of it.

It's pretty simple, when you're a 4th seeded team in a supposedly weak eastern conference and your team has REGRESSED you do not deserve the MVP award. Dwight dominates the majority of the game but when it comes down to crunch time they really don't have a go to scorer. He can't do things in clutch situations that to me, are necessary of an MVP. Great season, amazing player, but if someone could explain to me how you take a step backwards in the standings and don't meet expectations and still deserve MVP I'd like to hear it.

its obviously me making a reflection of what kind of an impact Thib's has had on the Bulls. Thibs is seriously going to win Rose the MVP. Sure Rose made gradual improvements, as we should expect. But he still isn't a top 8 player, and his team's record, along with the Bulls being the story of the season, is why we are now talking about Rose being the sure fire pick for MVP.

Hawkeye15
03-24-2011, 04:23 PM
u make 2 huge trades that change most of ur roster midseason?

that is what most forget when talking about the Magic...

Hawkeye15
03-24-2011, 04:24 PM
I understand that Howard is the magic, and without him they will be a really bad team. He def deserves some pub as a MVP, but he will not win it because his team hasnt won enough.

but same can be said for rose, with out him how would we score the rock and play defense.

cmon now. I can see the argument that the offense would fall into the bottomw 10 teams in the league, but their defense would still be elite.

NIUHuskies
03-24-2011, 04:25 PM
PER

Rose: 23.3
Howard: 26.3

WS (Win Shares)

Rose: 10.8
Howard: 12.9

EFF

Rose: 22.84
Howard: 28.67

Dwight Howard:

23.1 PPG
14.2 RPG
2.4 BPG
1.6 SPG

Derrick Rose:

24.9 PPG
7.8 APG
4.2 RPG
1.1 SPG

Next 2 best players on the Magic: Brandon Bass (5.7 WS/16.4 PER) and Jameer Nelson (5.6 WS/15.1 PER)

Next 2 best players on the Bulls: Luol Deng (8.7 WS) and Carlos Boozer (19.7 PER)

Basically Dwight Howard has been more impressive individually, has a worse supporting cast and is more important to his team.


So you are saying DRose makes the players around him better the Howard does?

hugepatsfan
03-24-2011, 04:25 PM
PER

Rose: 23.3
Howard: 26.3

WS (Win Shares)

Rose: 10.8
Howard: 12.9

Dwight Howard:

23.1 PPG
14.2 RPG
2.4 BPG
1.6 SPG

Derrick Rose:

24.9 PPG
7.8 APG
4.2 RPG
1.1 SPG

Next 2 best players on the Magic: Brandon Bass (5.7 WS/16.4 PER) and Jameer Nelson (5.6 WS/15.1 PER)

Next 2 best players on the Bulls: Luol Deng (8.7 WS) and Carlos Boozer (19.7 PER)

Basically Dwight Howard has been more impressive individually, has a worse supporting cast and is more important to his team.

My thoughts exactly. But CHI>ORL, and the MVP really isn't an individual award. It is as much a team award IMO as an individual one. I think that ORL w/out Dwight would see the biggest drop off of any team in the NBA, but that isn't the method by which writers consistantly vote. They usually go the best player on the best team (or one of the best teams if the best team doesn't have a candidate, like SA this year) route.

In that sense, it would actually be unfair for Rose to not get it because that would be the voters changing their style. Based off the way they have consistantly voted, Rose should/will get it. Now, whether the way they vote is actually the right way to go about it is another issue.

Geargo Wallace
03-24-2011, 04:26 PM
Why do Bulls fans think that we're telling them that their dick is small? Just cuz your amazingly awesome 3rd year PG is not worthy of MVP this year - and will probably get it this year - doesn't mean you have to have to get into a fit when ppl say Howard is the one who deserves it. The general consensus here by non-Bulls fans is that Howard has a far greater impact on the game, and on his team. It's not ppl ganging up on you. We're not saying DRose is ****. Just simply saying that Howard deserves the award more.

championships
03-24-2011, 04:26 PM
Van Gundy is right. The media has already named their MVP. Usually it goes to one of the top teams in the east/west. Nobody has been hyped up on the spurs enough to win it. With that said I think D Rose isn't a bad choice for MVP. Only Bulls fans can say they actually expected the Bulls to finish with the best record in the East.

Tarheels23
03-24-2011, 04:26 PM
^ If you don't like it, don't talk about it. There's a lot of Bulls fans on this forum, so I would suggest you just deal with it.

Well Im just saying that everyone knows how you guys feel. It would be nice for us to get the opinions of people who are unbiased.

Every Bulls fan is going to say that Rose deserves MVP over Howard.

KG2TB
03-24-2011, 04:26 PM
its obviously me making a reflection of what kind of an impact Thib's has had on the Bulls. Thibs is seriously going to win Rose the MVP. Sure Rose made gradual improvements, as we should expect. But he still isn't a top 8 player, and his team's record, along with the Bulls being the story of the season, is why we are now talking about Rose being the sure fire pick for MVP.

Thibs is a brilliant coach, no doubt about it...but like I said before, your best player is always more important than the coach. Every top team has a good coach but I don't see Thibs taking over 4th quarters and hitting game winners. Thibs is COY of the year worthy but Rose is definitely MVP worthy. Kobe or Shaq never won a title before Phil...but you're not gonna say that Phil deserves the finals MVP. I'm not saying Rose is on Kobe or Shaq's level...he's obviously not, but your logic is a bit flawed.

5ass
03-24-2011, 04:27 PM
cmon now. I can see the argument that the offense would fall into the bottomw 10 teams in the league, but their defense would still be elite.

lol if anything their defense could be better

Double_R
03-24-2011, 04:27 PM
PER

Rose: 23.3
Howard: 26.3

WS (Win Shares)

Rose: 10.8
Howard: 12.9

EFF

Rose: 22.84
Howard: 28.67

Dwight Howard:

23.1 PPG
14.2 RPG
2.4 BPG
1.6 SPG

Derrick Rose:

24.9 PPG
7.8 APG
4.2 RPG
1.1 SPG

Next 2 best players on the Magic: Brandon Bass (5.7 WS/16.4 PER) and Jameer Nelson (5.6 WS/15.1 PER)

Next 2 best players on the Bulls: Luol Deng (8.7 WS) and Carlos Boozer (19.7 PER)

Basically Dwight Howard has been more impressive individually, has a worse supporting cast and is more important to his team.

Sometimes you read a post that you just can't argue with, well done. BTW how is Howard a center averaging more steals than Rose a PG. That number is downright impressive to me.

Bullsfan22
03-24-2011, 04:28 PM
it doesn't mean that he's bad, but it also doesn't mean he is good or great. Howard has the Magic as a top defensive unit BY HIMSELF. Rose has a plethora of good wing defenders playing right beside him. I'm pretty sure without the great defenders by his side he'd be exposed alot more. Howard would be a defensive beast on any team.

Howard wouldn't be as good as he is on offense with any team... (see how you can twist your empty statements around?) while Rose would be a better offensive player on a team with a perimeter scorer or even a second ball handler.

Magics roster is filled with shooters to compliment Howard's improved post game.

hugepatsfan
03-24-2011, 04:29 PM
So you are saying DRose makes the players around him better the Howard does?

Offensively he does. I think that Rose is carrying the CHI offense. They do have some very good other options, but Rose really is the straw that stirs that drink.

However, Dwight is not only the best player on his team offensively, but he also SINGLE HANDEDLY carries that defense to top 5 in FG% allowed and points allowed. Seriously, other than him, there isn't a single player on ORL that is noteworthy defensively (and many are actually poor defenders).

nyyfan4life
03-24-2011, 04:29 PM
My thoughts exactly. But CHI>ORL, and the MVP really isn't an individual award. It is as much a team award IMO as an individual one. I think that ORL w/out Dwight would see the biggest drop off of any team in the NBA, but that isn't the method by which writers consistantly vote. They usually go the best player on the best team (or one of the best teams if the best team doesn't have a candidate, like SA this year) route.

In that sense, it would actually be unfair for Rose to not get it because that would be the voters changing their style. Based off the way they have consistantly voted, Rose should/will get it. Now, whether the way they vote is actually the right way to go about it is another issue.

MVP is Most Valuable Player. So the way it SHOULD be looked at is by which player is most valuable to his team. Howard is not just an inside presence on offense, his defense is amazingly critical to what the Magic do. I agree with what you're saying though. I just find it really stupid.

MJ-BULLS
03-24-2011, 04:30 PM
that's exactly my argument. Would they struggle offensively without Rose? hell yea.

agree here.


Would they struggle defensively? hell no.

Actually yes they would. just out of curiosity, How many times have you watched the bulls play this year sir?


I'm pretty sure CJ Watson could do what Rose does on the defensive end.

actually Watson isn't even that good. his defense is pretty much the same as rose. theres alot of times that he falls asleep defensively. at least rose uses his athleticism/speed to keep up with guys making him better than watson. now, im not saying Watson is absolutely horrible, but hes a avg guy him self


And the whole "his team doesn't win enough" is a media gig...his team's record is still pretty damn good it's not like they're lurking near .500

i doubt it, there are just giving where some credit is due. :shrug:

my main point is, howard and rose are both are deserving of the award. but i see some people say no because he is a worser defender than howard is. i wouldn't be pissed if howard won it.

anyways, peace.

Sadds The Gr8
03-24-2011, 04:33 PM
[/B]

Howard wouldn't be as good as he is on offense with any team...
how so? teams are doubling howard now and are leaving the shooters open. Unlike the last 3 years where they've let howard go 1v1 and played the shooters tight. Howard would also still be a dominant defender which is the main reason he's an MVP candidate.



while Rose would be a better offesive player on team with a perimeter scorer or even a second ball handler.
yea, and that team would probably suck defensively. Rose also wouldn't get 20+ shots per game so he wouldn't score as much.


Magics roster is filled with shooters to compliment Howard's improved post game.
And the Bulls are filled with defenders to cover Rose and Boozer's deficiencies, so they can carry the offense. The argument goes both ways don't try to swing it in Rose's favour.

hugepatsfan
03-24-2011, 04:33 PM
There are almost 450 players in the NBA. There is, however, only 1 MVP. People need to get over the idea that saying someone is not the MVP is an attack.

Cool007
03-24-2011, 04:33 PM
take away rose from the bulls,the bulls still a good team. take away howard, the magic sucks. with that being said howard is the true mvp.

Take away Dwight and Magic keeps Gortat. With Gortat, Magic still makes playoffs but now take off Rose and with injuries to Boozer and Noah, Bulls would be sitting next to Bucks/Pistons.

nyyfan4life
03-24-2011, 04:36 PM
Take away Dwight and Magic keeps Gortat. With Gortat, Magic still makes playoffs but now take off Rose and with injuries to Boozer and Noah, Bulls would be sitting next to Bucks/Pistons.

That trade happened in December. We are talking in the present, at this point in time.

5ass
03-24-2011, 04:37 PM
Yeah but they got talent back. They got Turk back who everyone thought was the missing piece. They got J-Rich, they got talent back. Last year the Bulls DUMPED talent and were still able to finish with the same record they did the previous year. It's a bit of an excuse I would say.

The Bulls brought in a new coach, added 8 new faces to the team, started the season without Boozer, were learning a new system, didn't have Noah for 2 months and we're still in first place. Why? Because of Rose and also brilliant coaching from Thibs...but the best player is always more important than the coach. If people wanna ignore these things and make excuses for why the Magic are in 4th than it's not a conversation worth having.

im not ignoring anything i know they played games without boozer and noah, and i know taj gibson and kurt thomas and asik stepped up and it wasnt just rose doing all the work like bulls fans are making it out to be. also all the bulls roster changes came before the season started and thibs was one of the first coaches to be hired in the offseason if im not mistaken, so derrick rose and the bulls had the whole offseason to learn thibs plays. J-rich, hedo and arenas all came in mid-season and had to learn SVGs offense and complicated defense throughout regular season games, all while hedo was out of shape and arenas being nowhere near the player he is supposed to be

Sadds The Gr8
03-24-2011, 04:37 PM
Actually yes they would. just out of curiosity, How many times have you watched the bulls play this year sir?

everytime they're on national TV and some of their regional games are shown here. i've seen more games than you think.




actually Watson isn't even that good. his defense is pretty much the same as rose. theres alot of times that he falls asleep defensively. at least rose uses his athleticism/speed to keep up with guys making him better than watson. now, im not saying Watson is absolutely horrible, but hes a avg guy him self
so that means the team wouldn't lose a beat defensively right? you say he's as good as rose on defense, so then the team would maintain it's defensive dominance. Watson may fall asleep once in a while, but Rose don't act like Rose doesn't too.



my main point is, howard and rose are both are deserving of the award. but i see some people say no because he is a worser defender than howard is. i wouldn't be pissed if howard won it.

i think they're both deserving too, but i think D12 deserves it more because he's more valuable to his team.

northsider
03-24-2011, 04:38 PM
Is what you guys want to hear is the a BULLS fan thinks Howard is more valuable then here you go.

Dwight Howard statistically is every bit more efficient then Rose and it isn't even debatable. DH has also been everything to the Magic in terms of offense and Defense and without him they would be dwelling with the likes of the lower seed teams. His value is off the charts and he def. deserves to win an MVP award and I wouldn't the least bit be mad if he won it over Rose.

Now with that out of the way I will take a championship every day for the rest of my life then worry or care about a ****ing individual accomplishment.

REGular
03-24-2011, 04:38 PM
Take away Dwight and Magic keeps Gortat. With Gortat, Magic still makes playoffs but now take off Rose and with injuries to Boozer and Noah, Bulls would be sitting next to Bucks/Pistons.

So now you're awarding the Best Player award to Rose b/c his teammates got injured . . . that's odd.

Hawkeye15
03-24-2011, 04:39 PM
Thibs is a brilliant coach, no doubt about it...but like I said before, your best player is always more important than the coach. Every top team has a good coach but I don't see Thibs taking over 4th quarters and hitting game winners. Thibs is COY of the year worthy but Rose is definitely MVP worthy. Kobe or Shaq never won a title before Phil...but you're not gonna say that Phil deserves the finals MVP. I'm not saying Rose is on Kobe or Shaq's level...he's obviously not, but your logic is a bit flawed.

not so. Having a great coach is as irreplaceable as having a great player dude. This has been proven time and time again.

I do indeed think Thibs should win COY.

Rose isn't on Kobes level. Or Dwight, LeBron, Durant, Dirk, Wade, Paul

Sadds The Gr8
03-24-2011, 04:39 PM
Now with that out of the way I will take a championship every day for the rest of my life then worry or care about a ****ing individual accomplishment.

well that's a different story for a different day, and isn't what this thread is about.

KG2TB
03-24-2011, 04:42 PM
im not ignoring anything i know they played games without boozer and noah, and i know taj gibson and kurt thomas and asik stepped up and it wasnt just rose doing all the work like bulls fans are making it out to be. also all the bulls roster changes came before the season started and thibs was one of the first coaches to be hired in the offseason if im not mistaken, so derrick rose and the bulls had the whole offseason to learn thibs plays. J-rich, hedo and arenas all came in mid-season and had to learn SVGs offense and complicated defense throughout regular season games, all while hedo was out of shape and arenas being nowhere near the player he is supposed to be

That's a bit fair but an MVP leads his team and wills them to victory. Dwight gets some flack about not being a great leader. Is it justafied? I'm not in the rocker room so I can't say...but where there's smoke, there's usually fire.

KT, Gibson, and Asik def stepped up...but no way are they on Boozer and Noah's level. You also ignored the fact that last season the Bulls let BG go and MID-SEASON (since this is important to you) DUMPED talent to get under the cap and we still finished with the same record as the previous year. There's excuses and there's results. You can argue with excuses, but there's no arguing with results.

Cool007
03-24-2011, 04:44 PM
So now you're awarding the Best Player award to Rose b/c his teammates got injured . . . that's odd.

There isn't a best player award by the way. No, Rose is not better than Dwight individually.

But when it comes to elevating his team and setting them up and producing his own offense, Rose is better than Dwight.

Dwight is a dominant force at both ends and that's why he is better but give me Rose in the 4th qtr in a close game.

SteveNash
03-24-2011, 04:45 PM
So now you're awarding the Best Player award to Rose b/c his teammates got injured . . . that's odd.

How do you think Nash got his two undeserved MVPs?

KG2TB
03-24-2011, 04:46 PM
not so. Having a great coach is as irreplaceable as having a great player dude. This has been proven time and time again.

I do indeed think Thibs should win COY.

Rose isn't on Kobes level. Or Dwight, LeBron, Durant, Dirk, Wade, Paul

I did not say he was. Although it's debatable if he's on Paul's level this season. Many coaches and players agree he's the best PG. Is he? I don't really care and it's not easy to quantify. He's a stud that again, carries us in crunch time and has taken over many fourth quarters and hit some key game winners. Again...Thibs isn't out there doing that. They rely on eachother pretty equally. Without Rose, Thibs doesn't have NEARLY the success as he's having. Without Thibs, the Bulls would still probably be a 45-55 win team. We one 41 games with braindead VDN with a worse roster and a less experienced Rose.

5ass
03-24-2011, 04:47 PM
That's a bit fair but an MVP leads his team and wills them to victory. Dwight gets some flack about not being a great leader. Is it justafied? I'm not in the rocker room so I can't say...but where there's smoke, there's usually fire.

KT, Gibson, and Asik def stepped up...but no way are they on Boozer and Noah's level. You also ignored the fact that last season the Bulls let BG go and MID-SEASON (since this is important to you) DUMPED talent to get under the cap and we still finished with the same record as the previous year. There's excuses and there's results. You can argue with excuses, but there's no arguing with results.

whats up with bulls fans talking about what happened last season and the season before that? all that doesnt matter now.. u dont see me bringing up how orlando signed lewis to a max contract, and how they got an even worse contract in arenas.. and lets not forget that salary u dumped helped u get boozer, resign noah and get one of the best benches in the nba

KG2TB
03-24-2011, 04:56 PM
whats up with bulls fans talking about what happened last season and the season before that? all that doesnt matter now.. u dont see me bringing up how orlando signed lewis to a max contract, and how they got an even worse contract in arenas.. and lets not forget that salary u dumped helped u get boozer, resign noah and get one of the best benches in the nba

I'm merely making a point that you clearly don't wanna acknowledge or address. I don't know what other Bulls fans do or why they do it. However, its been you that's talking about this mid-season trade which is a reason the Magic are underachieving despite the fact they got good players back. I merely stated a fact to use as an example to your logic that last year the Bulls made a mid-season trade but got worse players back and still finished with the same record the previous year. Why is that hard to understand? You're the one using the mid-season trade excuse. I gave you a prime example how it's merely an excuse. Again, you can't argue with results.

5ass
03-24-2011, 05:07 PM
I'm merely making a point that you clearly don't wanna acknowledge or address. I don't know what other Bulls fans do or why they do it. However, its been you that's talking about this mid-season trade which is a reason the Magic are underachieving despite the fact they got good players back. I merely stated a fact to use as an example to your logic that last year the Bulls made a mid-season trade but got worse players back and still finished with the same record the previous year. Why is that hard to understand? You're the one using the mid-season trade excuse. I gave you a prime example how it's merely an excuse. Again, you can't argue with results.

so what ur trying to say is that that mid-season trade, where 2 starters were traded let me remind u, isnt going to affect the magics regular season record? the guys played regular season games together without even having a chance to practice together first.. but ur saying it doesnt matter because of what the bulls did last season? and "i cant argue with results" so obviously ur rite ;)

Hawkeye15
03-24-2011, 05:10 PM
I did not say he was. Although it's debatable if he's on Paul's level this season. Many coaches and players agree he's the best PG. Is he? I don't really care and it's not easy to quantify. He's a stud that again, carries us in crunch time and has taken over many fourth quarters and hit some key game winners. Again...Thibs isn't out there doing that. They rely on eachother pretty equally. Without Rose, Thibs doesn't have NEARLY the success as he's having. Without Thibs, the Bulls would still probably be a 45-55 win team. We one 41 games with braindead VDN with a worse roster and a less experienced Rose.

He isn't on Paul's level this season.

I don't think the Bulls, who are a top half of the league offense, and a #10-12 defense (which is what they were prior to Thibs taking over), are winning 55 games man.

Rose's improvements have been gradual. Your defense exploded this year.

And I wish most of you would have the opinion you list in sentence 2. Who cares? The Bulls are winning. Period. Who cares if its their defense that is carrying them most the year?

REGular
03-24-2011, 05:16 PM
There isn't a best player award by the way. No, Rose is not better than Dwight individually.

But when it comes to elevating his team and setting them up and producing his own offense, Rose is better than Dwight.

Dwight is a dominant force at both ends and that's why he is better but give me Rose in the 4th qtr in a close game.

Except that there are other players in the league who are better at producing their own offense and setting up their teammate's offenses. Rose isn't the most valuable in that area either.

KG2TB
03-24-2011, 05:24 PM
so what ur trying to say is that that mid-season trade, where 2 starters were traded let me remind u, isnt going to affect the magics regular season record? the guys played regular season games together without even having a chance to practice together first.. but ur saying it doesnt matter because of what the bulls did last season? and "i cant argue with results" so obviously ur rite ;)

An MVP would lead and will the team to victories despite the changes. The trade happened what, 2 months ago? I know its been a while. It takes some time to gel, obviously but you can't use it as an excuse that they're in the 4th seed now and have REGRESSED big time with the talent they received back. I stand by what I said about its an excuse. Teams, and I gave you an example of how the Bulls did it have overcome it and still were able to perform on par with the previous season despite getting worse players back and having a boneheaded coach. Not to mention a less experienced Rose. Look...I'm not here to make enemies, I love Howard...he's a stud...but they're in 4th place brotha. They have not met expectations. To me, an MVP would not allow that to happen. Sorry.


He isn't on Paul's level this season.

I don't think the Bulls, who are a top half of the league offense, and a #10-12 defense (which is what they were prior to Thibs taking over), are winning 55 games man.

Rose's improvements have been gradual. Your defense exploded this year.

And I wish most of you would have the opinion you list in sentence 2. Who cares? The Bulls are winning. Period. Who cares if its their defense that is carrying them most the year?

Yeah..I really don't care. I have my opinion on Rose and feel confident about it. I don't care about mock rankings. The thing is, every championship caliber team has a great defense and to discredit Rose because of it, or undermine his accomplishments and importance to the team is silly. Rose has carried us in crunch time just like the defense has carried us. You can't fault him for us having a great defense. Our defense doesn't score clutch baskets though when the opposing team is doing everything in their power to stop Rose.

Crackadalic
03-24-2011, 05:27 PM
Thats why i feel winning Finals MVP is more importing since its basically the last round in the playoffs. I think Dwights impact on the defensive end means more to his team but D-rose will win MVP this season

MagicBucsSox
03-24-2011, 05:28 PM
I honestly think they're gonna do CO-MVP's for Dwight n Rose and that's how it should be. And the winner will be Adidas

DwayneMVPwade
03-24-2011, 05:30 PM
Rose has been amazing. They have the best record in the east, with Noah and Boozer banged up, during parts of the season

JB0B0
03-24-2011, 05:41 PM
Dwight and Rose are both very deserving and it's probably a tie, but Rose should own the tie-breaker because his team has a better record.

Chronz
03-24-2011, 06:05 PM
So you are saying DRose makes the players around him better the Howard does?
Like Boozer?

Deng before Rose was putting up better #'s, hes finally now back to a level he was at before going downhill. I dont see much of a correlation, no other player makes another

Havoc Wreaker
03-24-2011, 06:16 PM
I don't follow the NBA enough, nor do I care, but Van Gundy is turning into a complete whiny *****. Everyday there's some new article about him crying about something.

John Walls Era
03-24-2011, 06:19 PM
I don't follow the NBA enough, nor do I care, but Van Gundy is turning into a complete whiny *****. Everyday there's some new article about him crying about something.

Rex Ryan of the NBA. All about putting the attention on himself rather than the team (???)

D1JM
03-24-2011, 06:33 PM
Like Boozer?

Deng before Rose was putting up better #'s, hes finally now back to a level he was at before going downhill. I dont see much of a correlation, no other player makes another

like i said it was vinny and injuries.

D1JM
03-24-2011, 06:37 PM
and Mike Brown was such a brilliant basketball mind...

vinny makes mike brown look like phil jackson


Brown could at least coach defense, and he had better assistants. Del Negro was completely clueless.

yup

Chronz
03-24-2011, 06:38 PM
like i said it was vinny and injuries.
The same Vinnie who is currently getting a career year from EG despite injuries? JK, that has nothing to do with Vin

Injuries could play a part but his production waned long before last year, it began the minute Rose showed up, which coincide with Vinny's arrival. Thibs said Vinny used him wrong so you could have a point so lets not credit Rose for his success.

Some players just dont have the same motivations, role, and yes injuries.

DLeeicious
03-24-2011, 06:41 PM
Honestly who cares about the MVP? Is it like this every season and I just haven't noticed since seasons past my team's player wasn't in the race? I just don't care, really between Dwight, Rose, Dirk, Kobe and Lebron any of them can take it and my thoughts will still be, "can't wait until the playoffs!". Rose has become the overwhelming favorite amongst the media and probably will get it, who give's a ****? Focus on your team not your MVP candidate SVG.

DLeeicious
03-24-2011, 06:45 PM
The same Vinnie who is currently getting a career year from EG despite injuries? JK, that has nothing to do with Vin

Injuries could play a part but his production waned long before last year, it began the minute Rose showed up, which coincide with Vinny's arrival. Thibs said Vinny used him wrong so you could have a point so lets not credit Rose for his success.

Some players just dont have the same motivations, role, and yes injuries.

Assuming you're talking about Deng, Rose has little to do with his success this season. A) Deng is a total system player, Vinny completely dropped the ball and used him wrong. B) Deng excels as a third option and has trouble being forced as a 2nd option, so having Boozer here helps him. C) Deng has always been underrated defensively, he is getting noticed this season as the Bulls as a team our getting noticed defensively. D) The little part where Rose helps with Dengs success is simply Rose drawing WAY more double teams this season and that obviously will help the other 4's offense/rebounding.

gauth25
03-24-2011, 06:51 PM
Sorry but Rose is leading the team with the best record in the east and is having a pretty damn good season. Ya, Dwight means alot to the Magic but I'd say Rose means more to the Bulls.

Rose deserves the MVP award.

jiggin
03-24-2011, 09:11 PM
I 100% agree with him.

but giving to a guy like rose is better for the NBA, will generate more fan interest...

...and yet another reason the NBA is all messed up and all about selling advertising, selling seats and tickets and making money rather than doing the right thing.

CowboysKB24
03-25-2011, 01:03 AM
LINK (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-orlando-magic-news-0324-20110323,0,5926802.story)

I think he is right. Rose seems like he is a lock to win it. Bulls are number one in the East right now. The MVP usually goes to the best player on the best team with some exceptions. Spurs don't really have a big time super star, thus Bulls are next in line. It basically goes to the best player on a team that is in the top 4 in overall standings.

I think if Magic were in the top four in the standings then it would be a toss up. Dwight is better than Rose and is fighting LBJ and Wade as the best player in the game. His defense is superior to anyone in the league. His impact on defense is huge. His offense is getting better each. Improve his FT, he gets my vote.

Hawkeye15
03-25-2011, 01:08 AM
Yeah..I really don't care. I have my opinion on Rose and feel confident about it. I don't care about mock rankings. The thing is, every championship caliber team has a great defense and to discredit Rose because of it, or undermine his accomplishments and importance to the team is silly. Rose has carried us in crunch time just like the defense has carried us. You can't fault him for us having a great defense. Our defense doesn't score clutch baskets though when the opposing team is doing everything in their power to stop Rose.

First off, don't put words in my mouth, and say I was discrediting Rose for having a great defense in regards to being a championship team.

I am not faulting Rose, or any Bull, for them having a great defense. I am simply saying, that defense may very well win Rose the MVP. He is a top 10 player (right on the border), and the Bulls have no clear cut #2 guy, so Rose will get the credit. This is neither right nor wrong.

Mock rankings? No, I can show you why Paul is better, but you will simply point to the Bulls wins, which is the age old argument played out when painted in a corner. Some just struggle with the concept that TEAMS win games, not players.