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KnIckNy212
03-23-2011, 06:11 PM
I just read the Greg Anthony said that in a few years D.Rose will be the best player in the league. I like D.Rose and I think he is the best scoring PG in the game today and has a chance to be the best PG in the league and might even be right now. We have to just judge the player and take what you think about a guy and take out the hate and bias you have for a player and think, LeBron is the best basketball player in this league and hes got that spot on lock for a while. He is never going to be Jordan or Kobe but you cant tell me now or in a few years Rose,Durant,Howard,Griffin,etc. are better than James. He has his some deficiencies but the things this guy can do no one else in this league can do on a night to night basis. The guy is still averaging 26 7 and 7 if he was in Cleveland this year with those numbers him and Rose would be head to head in the MVP race.

What?
03-23-2011, 06:16 PM
Thats pretty much a fact at this point outside of a very, very small amount of Chicago and Orlando fans, and Kobe fans, other then that not many people dispute the fact that Lebron is the best player in the league

Evolution23
03-23-2011, 06:19 PM
yup he is

LTS
03-23-2011, 06:20 PM
Lebron> Kobe too but yes not a fan of him but he may very well be best player in league fior 3-5 more years if not more and was last 2 at least. As for rose Chi has a huge following especially on PSD and he is the media darling right now and hes good is he LBJ, Kobe, Dwade good probably not and def. not yet

Tony_Starks
03-23-2011, 06:25 PM
I have no dislike for Lebron at all but I've watched a lot of Heat games where I've actually walked away much more impressed with D Wade than him. From a stat perspective and sheer athleticism and ability Lebron is the man but if I had to choose between the two I'd take D Wade. Better defender, more reliable shooter and closer IMO.

Sir Buckets
03-23-2011, 06:27 PM
Putting up the best stats in the league doesn't necessarily mean you're the best player in the league. LeBron is obviously great player, but his style isn't really conducive to winning. His egotistical, ball-stopping, fake team chemistry ******** just doesn't fly when it comes to winning something meaningful.

IamKaiserSoze
03-23-2011, 06:27 PM
lebron is a stud. physically you cannot stop him. but i don't think he has all the skills of kobe. although kobe seems to be slowing a bit. but if he (lebron) strived to be better... develope an inside game... improve his free throw shooting... he could be the best in the game. but anyone who suggests he isn't in the conversation is just hating.

and i hate lebron.

knightstemplar
03-23-2011, 06:31 PM
IMO its still kobe, lebron doesnt win enough just puts up better stats

Cano4prez
03-23-2011, 06:33 PM
I have no dislike for Lebron at all but I've watched a lot of Heat games where I've actually walked away much more impressed with D Wade than him. From a stat perspective and sheer athleticism and ability Lebron is the man but if I had to choose between the two I'd take D Wade. Better defender, more reliable shooter and closer IMO.

LeBron is a better shooter and defender, the closer thing is debatable.

smiddy012
03-23-2011, 06:35 PM
If its in the playoffs, and I have to choose between Kobe or Lebron as my guy, I have to go with Kobe.

Does this mean I think Kobe's better than Lebron?

Raidaz4Life
03-23-2011, 06:36 PM
Putting up the best stats in the league doesn't necessarily mean you're the best player in the league. LeBron is obviously great player, but his style isn't really conducive to winning. His egotistical, ball-stopping, fake team chemistry ******** just doesn't fly when it comes to winning something meaningful.

I actually agree with this post to an extent.


As talented as Lebron is, I have always found his style to be detrimental to his team's success at times. Rarely does he make players on his team better. Instead it seems like he needs specific players put around him to succeed because of the way he dominates the ball. The Heat actually have a very good supporting cast but one would hardly know it by looking at their record or the boxscore because of the fact that Lebron seems to leave them as spectator's rather than contributors. Doesn't anyone find it odd that the Cav's finished with a better record the last two years than the Heat will have this year? Even with people ranting about the Cavs having one of the arguably worst supporting casts of the decade? Its because of the fact that Lebron just can't play with great players. I think if he could play off the ball then it would be a completely different story but he can't and it hurts his team that his game is very one dimensional in that regard.

Warrant32
03-23-2011, 06:38 PM
Still gonna take Kobe, but LBJ is def close.

Cano4prez
03-23-2011, 06:39 PM
I actually agree with this post to an extent.


As talented as Lebron is, I have always found his style to be detrimental to his team's success at times. Rarely does he make players on his team better. Instead it seems like he needs specific players put around him to succeed because of the way he dominates the ball. The Heat actually have a very good supporting cast but one would hardly know it by looking at their record or the boxscore because of the fact that Lebron seems to leave them as spectator's rather than contributors. Doesn't anyone find it odd that the Cav's finished with a better record the last two years than the Heat will have this year? Even with people ranting about the Cavs having one of the arguably worst supporting casts of the decade? Its because of the fact that Lebron just can't play with great players. I think if he could play off the ball then it would be a completely different story but he can't and it hurts his team that his game is very one dimensional in that regard.

I stopped reading right there

Rivera
03-23-2011, 06:41 PM
dwight howard is right there with LBj as the best player in the league i dont really care if you disagree

dwight maybe the best or 2nd best player behind lebron in the whole league

dwight has the 2nd highest PER...we all know dominant of a defender dwight is and he is accounted for 12.6 win shares this season...lebron has accounted for 12.9 win shares

Click here For Comparison (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=bryanko01&y1=2011&p2=jamesle01&y2=2011&p3=howardw01&y3=2011&p4=rosede01&y4=2011)

dwight has been playing incredible basketball this year hes improved his offense significantly and dwight doesnt have another all star caliber player on his team compared to rose/kobe/lebron

kobebabe
03-23-2011, 06:43 PM
If we are rewarding stats, then LBJ has the best of anybody. Best player in the league? Don't know about that

bringinwood
03-23-2011, 06:45 PM
I just read the Greg Anthony said that in a few years D.Rose will be the best player in the league. I like D.Rose and I think he is the best scoring PG in the game today and has a chance to be the best PG in the league and might even be right now. We have to just judge the player and take what you think about a guy and take out the hate and bias you have for a player and think, LeBron is the best basketball player in this league and hes got that spot on lock for a while. He is never going to be Jordan or Kobe but you cant tell me now or in a few years Rose,Durant,Howard,Griffin,etc. are better than James. He has his some deficiencies but the things this guy can do no one else in this league can do on a night to night basis. The guy is still averaging 26 7 and 7 if he was in Cleveland this year with those numbers him and Rose would be head to head in the MVP race.

Rose isn't the best PG in the league... Scoring PG, sure...

LeBron is the best player in basketball...

He has been the most efficient this year on a top 3 seeded Heat team...

Avenged
03-23-2011, 06:47 PM
Lebron is the best regular season player in the league, sure.

But I have seen Kobe take his team to the promise land plenty of times and come out successful. I don't care what team he has and which team another player doesn't have, fact is Kobe has won when it matters the most. I'd take Kobe, who is a proven winner in the postseason. I'll definitely take Lebron in the regular season over anybody. In the future, Lebron may very well lead his team to a championship but as of right now, I'm taking Kobe because he does it time and time again.

(this is not to say Kobe is the better player, but I would just take him over Lebron in the playoffs)

footballer2369
03-23-2011, 06:49 PM
People are always looking for an underdog to come and overtake #1 which is why there is so much talk of other players taking Lebron's throne, including Rose and older Kobe, who is now an underdog.

Lebron is the best player now and for the forseeable future... If he begins to rack up rings/accolades we could be talking about him being #2 all time when his career is over.

bringinwood
03-23-2011, 06:50 PM
Lebron is the best regular season player in the league, sure.

But I have seen Kobe take his team to the promise land plenty of times and come out successful. I don't care what team he has and which team another player doesn't have, fact is Kobe has won when it matters the most. I'd take Kobe, who is a proven winner in the postseason. I'll definitely take Lebron in the regular season over anybody. In the future, Lebron may very well lead his team to a championship but as of right now, I'm taking Kobe.

I've said it 700 times and i'll say it again...

Put LeBron on a team with Robert Horry, Derek Fisher, Shaquille O'Neal ( in his prime), Rick Fox, Ron Harper and so on, he wins multiple championships without blinking...

When your second option is Mo Williams and Anderson Varejo, you aren't winning a chip...


I'll put it to you this way, i'll take LeBron in the playoffs from this year forward... You can have Kobe...

Sir Buckets
03-23-2011, 06:51 PM
I stopped reading right there
Everything he said was correct, except for maybe the never making others better part. He does, but really only if they're the right players.

Sir Buckets
03-23-2011, 06:52 PM
People are always looking for an underdog to come and overtake #1 which is why there is so much talk of other players taking Lebron's throne, including Rose and older Kobe, who is now an underdog.

Lebron is the best player now and for the forseeable future... If he begins to rack up rings/accolades we could be talking about him being #2 all time when his career is over.Oh dear.

Raidaz4Life
03-23-2011, 06:55 PM
I stopped reading right there

Would you care to provide examples of players that became clearly better by playing with Lebron?

Bosh?
Miller?
Jamison?
Mo Williams?
Bibby?
James Jones?

I have heard arguments suggesting at one point or another that playing with Lebron would make these players head and shoulders better because of all the open looks they would get from his play making abilities and yet every one of them plays exactly the same or even worse with Lebron. The fact of the matter is Lebron has really yet to improve any of his teammates substantially enough for it to make a difference. The reason the Cavs were so good was because of their D.... the reason the Heat are good at all is because of their D because heaven knows they couldn't run a half court offense to save their life... I will concede that Lebron is one of the best defenders in the league but he rarely even gets credit for that. I am always hearing about what an explosive playmaker he is when in reality rarely is he making anyone better because of it.

theheatles
03-23-2011, 06:57 PM
LeBron. winning! duh

nickdymez
03-23-2011, 06:58 PM
Everybody is basing this on stats only.. Im convinced most people on this site only watch espn and read the stats on NBA. com to come up with these things. Lebron is indeed a great player, but he's still not a better basketball player than Kobe bryant. And i would still start a team with Howard before lebron.

Avenged
03-23-2011, 06:58 PM
I've said it 700 times and i'll say it again...

Put LeBron on a team with Robert Horry, Derek Fisher, Shaquille O'Neal ( in his prime), Rick Fox, Ron Harper and so on, he wins multiple championships without blinking...

When your second option is Mo Williams and Anderson Varejo, you aren't winning a chip...


I'll put it to you this way, i'll take LeBron in the playoffs from this year forward... You can have Kobe...

This is what I said in my post:


I don't care what team he has and which team another player doesn't have, fact is Kobe has won when it matters the most.

Your giving me an opinion, I'm providing a fact that Kobe has actually won.

bringinwood
03-23-2011, 07:00 PM
Would you care to provide examples of players that became clearly better by playing with Lebron?

Bosh?
Miller?
Jamison?
Mo Williams?
Bibby?
James Jones?

I have heard arguments suggesting at one point or another that playing with Lebron would make these players head and shoulders better because of all the open looks they would get from his play making abilities and yet every one of them plays exactly the same or even worse with Lebron. The fact of the matter is Lebron has really yet to improve any of his teammates substantially enough for it to make a difference. The reason the Cavs were so good was because of their D.... the reason the Heat are good at all is because of their D because heaven knows they couldn't run a half court offense to save their life... I will concede that Lebron is one of the best defenders in the league but he rarely even gets credit for that. I am always hearing about what an explosive playmaker he is when in reality rarely is he making anyone better because of it.


Not fair to put Bosh in there... Bosh was a number 1 option for his entire career before going to Miami... It's more on him to adjust than it is to expect LeBron to make his game fit the style offense the Heat play...

When you are a number one seed and you have Antawn Jamison or Mo Williams as your two option, you aren't winning a championship...

Kind of sad that people have no idea how historic LeBron's runs were with the Cavs...

footballer2369
03-23-2011, 07:00 PM
Would you care to provide examples of players that became clearly better by playing with Lebron?

Bosh?
Miller?
Jamison?
Mo Williams?
Bibby?
James Jones?


Check Mo's #s before Lebron.
Check Damon Jones' #s before and after Lebron.
Check Z's when he's being passed to by Lebron vs. when he isn't.
The list goes on...
Check the teams' (Cavs and Heat) +/- numbers with and without Lebron. It's always at the top of the league.

He's played with Bibby like 5 games, Miller has an injured thumb on his shooting hand in his only year with him and James Jones doesn't even get minutes. Jamison only played with him for a couple months as well.

There are many more

footballer2369
03-23-2011, 07:02 PM
Oh dear.

Sorry. Should have penciled Rose in at two. Well, there will be an argument for him in the top 3!

bringinwood
03-23-2011, 07:02 PM
This is what I said in my post:

So, according to your logic, you'll take Derek Fisher over LeBron as well ???

Robert Horry over LeBron ???

Rivera
03-23-2011, 07:03 PM
Would you care to provide examples of players that became clearly better by playing with Lebron?

Bosh?
Miller?
Jamison?
Mo Williams?
Bibby?
James Jones?

I have heard arguments suggesting at one point or another that playing with Lebron would make these players head and shoulders better because of all the open looks they would get from his play making abilities and yet every one of them plays exactly the same or even worse with Lebron. The fact of the matter is Lebron has really yet to improve any of his teammates substantially enough for it to make a difference. The reason the Cavs were so good was because of their D.... the reason the Heat are good at all is because of their D because heaven knows they couldn't run a half court offense to save their life... I will concede that Lebron is one of the best defenders in the league but he rarely even gets credit for that. I am always hearing about what an explosive playmaker he is when in reality rarely is he making anyone better because of it.

LOL whut????

the only thing i need to say is lebron made the whole cavs team better

just look at the team with lebron last year and without lebron this year...i mean mo williams was an all star for christ sakes

MO WILLIAMS WAS IN THE ALL STAR GAME...obviously lebron made him better by playing with him...but according to you...mo williams wasnt better he was worse..and mo williams played D :facepalm:

and james jones is a muchh better player playing with lebron...he just isnt playing anymore because mike miller is taking his minutes

i hate lebron as much as the next person but to say he doesnt make his teammates better is just rediculous (however you spell that...dont correct me tho! :eyebrow: )

Avenged
03-23-2011, 07:05 PM
So, according to your logic, you'll take Derek Fisher over LeBron as well ???

Robert Horry over LeBron ???

It's absolutely ridiculous when people say stuff like this. First of all, Horry and Fisher don't compare to Kobe. Second of all, I never mentioned Fisher nor Horry so that certainly was not my "logic".

Rivera
03-23-2011, 07:06 PM
This is what I said in my post:



Your giving me an opinion, I'm providing a fact that Kobe has actually won.

yea but just because he WON doesnt always make player a better than player b... i mean adam morrisson has won twice...but is he twice the player lebron was/is??? not by a long shot

yes lebron sucks late in games (mostly under 2 min) and he has failed multiple times...but he will win eventually....

i mean i can bring up kobes stats in game 7 where he shot horrible and nearly cost the lakers game 7....but the lakers still won the chip over boston last year cause the lake show was a better team (and they didnt have perk for game 7 :p )

whitemamba33
03-23-2011, 07:07 PM
LOL whut????

the only thing i need to say is lebron made the whole cavs team better

just look at the team with lebron last year and without lebron this year...i mean mo williams was an all star for christ sakes

MO WILLIAMS WAS IN THE ALL STAR GAME...obviously lebron made him better by playing with him...but according to you...mo williams wasnt better he was worse..and mo williams played D :facepalm:

and james jones is a muchh better player playing with lebron...he just isnt playing anymore because mike miller is taking his minutes

i hate lebron as much as the next person but to say he doesnt make his teammates better is just rediculous (however you spell that...dont correct me tho! :eyebrow: )

Sure he made the cavs team better...during the reg season.

During the playoffs, pretty much everybody on the cavs went down in scoring and most major stats.

bringinwood
03-23-2011, 07:09 PM
It's absolutely ridiculous when people say stuff like this. First of all, Horry and Fisher don't compare to Kobe. Second of all, I never mentioned Fisher nor Horry so that certainly was not my "logic".

How is it ridiculous...


You said Kobe has been to the promised land... blah blah blah...

Came out a winner multiple times... blah blah blah...

LeBron hasn't won... blah blah blah...


Thing is, Fisher has just as many rings as Kobe... Horry has more...

I can understand you saying that you'd take the Lakers team over the Cavs but, to expect people to take you seriously when you say you'd take Kobe over LeBron in the playoffs just because LeBron hasn't won a championship and Kobe has ( on much much much much better overall teams ) makes you look soooo homerishly dellusional, it's almost not fair to pick your posts apart...

gbrl
03-23-2011, 07:12 PM
kobe is if he wanted to

Rivera
03-23-2011, 07:12 PM
Sure he made the cavs team better...during the reg season.

During the playoffs, pretty much everybody on the cavs went down in scoring and most major stats.

but is that lebrons fault that mo couldnt hit a open shot come playoff time??

or is it lebrons fault that the cavs #1 play was lebron dribble at the top of the key the rest of you spread out and wach lebron.....when ever you have an offense that plays like that it will never work..

but as a big lebron hater...i will remember everyone that lebron did score 25 straight points in a playoff game vs the pistons (between the 4th qtr and over time) and he led a team to the finals....yes they got swept by the spurs...but he did lead a team to the finals by himself once...

i mean lets not be naive...we can choose to forget history cause i have amnesia when it comes to lebron arguments....but PSD has started to push me as a lebron fan cause the hate and what people say about the guy is rediculous

Bruno
03-23-2011, 07:14 PM
He probably is. He's a one of a kind talent; I've been attempting to appreciate his brilliant game, even if he is the enemy :laugh2:

With that being said, he and his fan-base won't get the recognition he is striving for until he wins a ring. That's how the hierarchy in the NBA works. LeBron, while the most talent is still waiting in line like everybody else for the main prize.

Now that he finally has the talent, and a no-excuses mind set he could possibly make it happen as soon as this June.

WrongIslander
03-23-2011, 07:15 PM
In every other way other than mentality he's not only the best in the game now, he's amoung the best to ever play the game but when you factor in the intangibles he doesn't even make the top 20.

Kobe does and that's why I say he's the best player in the game, the man with the ring and the one they're all after. Kobe doesn't have the natural ability LeBron has and if you want to take it further, age 17 LeBron was better than Jordan. Kobe and Jordan though were prepared to work at their game and accept they always had to do better, LeBron believe his own hype.

If LeBron can get over his mental block in working as part of a cohesive unit and knowing when he needs to step up and when he needs to back off then he's as good as any player the league ever had.

Bruno
03-23-2011, 07:16 PM
I'll put it to you this way, i'll take LeBron in the playoffs from this year forward... You can have Kobe...

Careful, that could become future sig material. :D

Avenged
03-23-2011, 07:16 PM
yea but just because he WON doesnt always make player a better than player b... i mean adam morrisson has won twice...but is he twice the player lebron was/is??? not by a long shot

yes lebron sucks late in games (mostly under 2 min) and he has failed multiple times...but he will win eventually....

i mean i can bring up kobes stats in game 7 where he shot horrible and nearly cost the lakers game 7....but the lakers still won the chip over boston last year cause the lake show was a better team (and they didnt have perk for game 7 :p )

I never said Kobe was the better player so I don't know where you're getting at. And Adam doesn't compare to Kobe so I don't understand why he's even being mentioned here. He wasn't even part of the rotation lol.


How is it ridiculous...


You said Kobe has been to the promised land... blah blah blah...

Came out a winner multiple times... blah blah blah...

LeBron hasn't won... blah blah blah...


Thing is, Fisher has just as many rings as Kobe... Horry has more...

I can understand you saying that you'd take the Lakers team over the Cavs but, to expect people to take you seriously when you say you'd take Kobe over LeBron in the playoffs just because LeBron hasn't won a championship and Kobe has ( on much much much much better overall teams ) makes you look soooo homerishly dellusional, it's almost not fair to pick your posts apart...

Again, your opinion. Theres no homerism involve when someone says they'd take Kobe to win in the playoffs rather than Lebron. You mention Fisher and Horry to try to prove your point, without taking into consideration they do not compare to him whatsoever.

D Roses Bulls
03-23-2011, 07:20 PM
I dont know bout anyone else, but id rather have a guy with two finals mvp (kobe), hell even one finals mvp (wade) then someone with two mvp's (lebron) but im sure people will find a reason to call this a hater post.

Avenged
03-23-2011, 07:22 PM
He probably is. He's a one of a kind talent; I've been attempting to appreciate his brilliant game, even if he is the enemy :laugh2:

With that being said, he and his fan-base won't get the recognition he is striving for until he wins a ring. That's how the hierarchy in the NBA works. LeBron, while the most talent is still waiting in line like everybody else for the main prize.

Now that he finally has the talent, and a no-excuses mind set he could possibly make it happen as soon as this June.

Yep, Lebron while he is the best statistical player in the league, he still hasn't won. I don't care what team he has had in the past, point is he hasn't won. He has the team now, so lets see what he can do. For people who go off by stats a lot and need facts, I don't understand this double standard when it comes to Kobe and Lebron. Nobody is denying his talent, but when it comes down to it, he hasn't won yet. :shrug:

bringinwood
03-23-2011, 07:22 PM
I never said Kobe was the better player so I don't know where you're getting at. And Adam doesn't compare to Kobe so I don't understand why he's even being mentioned here. He wasn't even part of the rotation lol.



Again, your opinion. Theres no homerism involve when someone says they'd take Kobe to win in the playoffs rather than Lebron. You mention Fisher and Horry to try to prove your point, without taking into consideration they do not compare to him whatsoever.

Apparently, you decided to put you opinion in there as well... ;)

I believe, if LeBron had Kobe's surrounding talent, he'd have as many rings as Kobe without batting an eye...

If the Cavs had one team ( for the comparison, we can subtract Kobe and LeBron ) that was as good or better than the Lakers, i'd say you have an argument...

Just the fact that LeBron made it to the finals with those two, otherwise horrendous teams, shows how he knows how to win...

Without LeBron, they would have been lottery teams...

Without Kobe, the Lakers would still be a playoff team..

whitemamba33
03-23-2011, 07:22 PM
but is that lebrons fault that mo couldnt hit a open shot come playoff time??

or is it lebrons fault that the cavs #1 play was lebron dribble at the top of the key the rest of you spread out and wach lebron.....when ever you have an offense that plays like that it will never work..

but as a big lebron hater...i will remember everyone that lebron did score 25 straight points in a playoff game vs the pistons (between the 4th qtr and over time) and he led a team to the finals....yes they got swept by the spurs...but he did lead a team to the finals by himself once...

i mean lets not be naive...we can choose to forget history cause i have amnesia when it comes to lebron arguments....but PSD has started to push me as a lebron fan cause the hate and what people say about the guy is rediculous

Well you can't have it both ways. You can't give him credit for making the cavs better, and than ask "was it LeBron's fault" when the Cavs didn't play better.


You listed some GREAT individual LeBron performances...and was even in the building for some of them when they happened (Detroit). But none of that has anything to do with my point, which was he didn't improve the team when the playoffs game...individual numbers went down. He might have CARRIED his team, but he didn't make them better.

jmcelligott92
03-23-2011, 07:24 PM
Lets ask MJ ..........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBqL2ikTgGY


Kobe for sure

Raidaz4Life
03-23-2011, 07:25 PM
LOL whut????

the only thing i need to say is lebron made the whole cavs team better

just look at the team with lebron last year and without lebron this year...i mean mo williams was an all star for christ sakes

MO WILLIAMS WAS IN THE ALL STAR GAME...obviously lebron made him better by playing with him...but according to you...mo williams wasnt better he was worse..and mo williams played D :facepalm:

and james jones is a muchh better player playing with lebron...he just isnt playing anymore because mike miller is taking his minutes

i hate lebron as much as the next person but to say he doesnt make his teammates better is just rediculous (however you spell that...dont correct me tho! :eyebrow: )

I don't get why people seem to get the impression that Mo Williams had this overnight transformation playing with Lebron. He is roughly the same player he was in Milwaukee and he is still playing outstanding for the clippers without Lebron... sure he might have arguably been slightly better but as I said... name me players that are head and shoulders better playing with Lebron. Besides what does the all star game have to do with anything? Wasn't Yao Ming voted as the starting center this year for the western conference? Obviously you have to take the all star game argument with a grain of salt

How is James Jones a better player? He easily had his best season playing in Portland.

Mike Miller, injured thumb or not, is still playing one of his worst seasons of his career.

I don't see why Bosh is off limits? I am not even referring to his scoring or rebounding necessarily. Shouldn't he theoretically be a more efficient scoring option as a number three option behind Lebron and Wade? But the reality is he isn't. His efficiency is lower than it was last year when he was the focal point of Toronto's offense with nobody to make plays for him.


Like I said before Cleveland was good because of their defense. Not because Lebron was turning them into an offensive powerhouse. Same with the Heat this year. They beat their opponents on D and in the fastbreak...

Avenged
03-23-2011, 07:25 PM
I dont know bout anyone else, but id rather have a guy with two finals mvp (kobe), hell even one finals mvp (wade) then someone with two mvp's (lebron) but im sure people will find a reason to call this a hater post.

Most likely lol. It's like we have to pick Lebron for everything or else we're homers or haters. I'd rather have a top 10 player who wins championships than the best player in the league who doesn't. But I guess I'm in the minority.

Avenged
03-23-2011, 07:29 PM
Apparently, you decided to put you opinion in there as well... ;)

I believe, if LeBron had Kobe's surrounding talent, he'd have as many rings as Kobe without batting an eye...

If the Cavs had one team ( for the comparison, we can subtract Kobe and LeBron ) that was as good or better than the Lakers, i'd say you have an argument...

Just the fact that LeBron made it to the finals with those two, otherwise horrendous teams, shows how he knows how to win...

Without LeBron, they would have been lottery teams...

Without Kobe, the Lakers would still be a playoff team..

I pretty much can agree with this. But it doesn't always work out that way. Ill throw in my opinion in here but if Lebron was on the Lakers, I do not think he's the type of player that would work under the triangle offense. Lets not forget that all the talent in the world doesn't always win. All the pieces have to fit.

WrongIslander
03-23-2011, 07:29 PM
I never said Kobe was the better player so I don't know where you're getting at. And Adam doesn't compare to Kobe so I don't understand why he's even being mentioned here. He wasn't even part of the rotation lol.



Again, your opinion. Theres no homerism involve when someone says they'd take Kobe to win in the playoffs rather than Lebron. You mention Fisher and Horry to try to prove your point, without taking into consideration they do not compare to him whatsoever.

What you're saying is simple, I agree with it and not only that it's tried and tested.

If you want to win now then Kobe is your man. The stupidest thing is "you take Kobe from now on and I'll take LeBron". Of course Kobe is older and will hit a downward slope so how is that a fair comparison?

How about this BW. I'll take what Kobe has done to the end of his career and you take LeBron from now. This is much more suitable comparison as you are then comparing one full career to another.

As for the idea that Kobe hasn't earned his success, I believe the saying some of you use over there is "child please"?

LeBron called out the world with Wade and Bosh, they're talking about winning multiple rings and they were until they hit the road block of reality talking about doing it from season one. They also started talking about themselves amoung the best of all time. They've no one to blame for the expectations for themselves.

Kobe just played the game, played it well and when he got to a position where he could brag, well he let the others do that while he worked on his game tirelessly to not only be the KING but stay the KING.

DJakk
03-23-2011, 07:30 PM
Kobe or Durant easy.

Cano4prez
03-23-2011, 07:32 PM
Kobe or Durant easy.

Not even close

dodie53
03-23-2011, 07:34 PM
imo,
right now the best plaer in the nba is kobe
followed by lebron
then there's everyone else

WrongIslander
03-23-2011, 07:34 PM
Lets ask MJ ..........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBqL2ikTgGY


Kobe for sure

Since we're showing vids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JswfzDKYr04

bringinwood
03-23-2011, 07:34 PM
I don't get why people seem to get the impression that Mo Williams had this overnight transformation playing with Lebron. He is roughly the same player he was in Milwaukee and he is still playing outstanding for the clippers without Lebron... sure he might have arguably been slightly better but as I said... name me players that are head and shoulders better playing with Lebron. Besides what does the all star game have to do with anything? Wasn't Yao Ming voted as the starting center this year for the western conference? Obviously you have to take the all star game argument with a grain of salt

How is James Jones a better player? He easily had his best season playing in Portland.

Mike Miller, injured thumb or not, is still playing one of his worst seasons of his career.

I don't see why Bosh is off limits? I am not even referring to his scoring or rebounding necessarily. Shouldn't he theoretically be a more efficient scoring option as a number three option behind Lebron and Wade? But the reality is he isn't. His efficiency is lower than it was last year when he was the focal point of Toronto's offense with nobody to make plays for him.


Like I said before Cleveland was good because of their defense. Not because Lebron was turning them into an offensive powerhouse. Same with the Heat this year. They beat their opponents on D and in the fastbreak...

We are getting a taste of this this season as the Cavs are, obviously, poised for a good run well into June...

You really think they go from 66-16 to 13-56 just because of their fast break and defense ??? IF Mike Brown's system had that much to do with their record, he wouldn't have been fired...

You, honestly, don't think it has to do with their personnel ???

WrongIslander
03-23-2011, 07:35 PM
Durant is a great role model and a quality player but he's not even in the debate with LeBron or Kobe .... yet.

poleandreel
03-23-2011, 07:39 PM
wow i cannot even believe what I am seeing in this thread right now. Lebron is the best player in the league. Kobe is good but he is not the best. He is probably tied with wade for 2nd

Last night he went 1-9 in his 10 shots in the 4th and overtime. But people only remember that floater at the end. He single offhandedly let phoenix come back in that game.

It is rare for lebron to the the CAUSE of the loss. Kobe has shown he can lose you games.

Rivera
03-23-2011, 07:40 PM
I never said Kobe was the better player so I don't know where you're getting at. And Adam doesn't compare to Kobe so I don't understand why he's even being mentioned here. He wasn't even part of the rotation lol.



because you said earlier your main point was kobe has won and lebron hasnt


I don't care what team he has and which team another player doesn't have, fact is Kobe has won when it matters the most.

so you would take kobe even though you admitted in the same post that lebron is a better "regular season" player because kobe has won???

like i said...you give lebron the same exact laker teams kobe was on and lebron would have a ring to


Well you can't have it both ways. You can't give him credit for making the cavs better, and than ask "was it LeBron's fault" when the Cavs didn't play better.


You listed some GREAT individual LeBron performances...and was even in the building for some of them when they happened (Detroit). But none of that has anything to do with my point, which was he didn't improve the team when the playoffs game...individual numbers went down. He might have CARRIED his team, but he didn't make them better.

did you not see anything with making mo williams an all star and making james jones a sharp shooter? or the fact that he had bobbie gibson and sasha pavolic as his starting backcourt??? i mean he had to make that back court better to make the finals...cause you can lead your team to the finals...but you cant do it yourself...and lebron made his team better to be able to reach the finals


I don't get why people seem to get the impression that Mo Williams had this overnight transformation playing with Lebron. He is roughly the same player he was in Milwaukee and he is still playing outstanding for the clippers without Lebron... sure he might have arguably been slightly better but as I said... name me players that are head and shoulders better playing with Lebron. Besides what does the all star game have to do with anything? Wasn't Yao Ming voted as the starting center this year for the western conference? Obviously you have to take the all star game argument with a grain of salt

How is James Jones a better player? He easily had his best season playing in Portland.

Mike Miller, injured thumb or not, is still playing one of his worst seasons of his career.

I don't see why Bosh is off limits? I am not even referring to his scoring or rebounding necessarily. Shouldn't he theoretically be a more efficient scoring option as a number three option behind Lebron and Wade? But the reality is he isn't. His efficiency is lower than it was last year when he was the focal point of Toronto's offense with nobody to make plays for him.


Like I said before Cleveland was good because of their defense. Not because Lebron was turning them into an offensive powerhouse. Same with the Heat this year. They beat their opponents on D and in the fastbreak...

so mo williams is a great player??? hes a multiple time allstar who has been on 5 first teams all nba right??

mo williams is a decent player...lebron made him an allstar for a season...how is that not making someone better??

as far as mike miller goes...thats just mike...hes trying to hard and hasnt been consistent shooting...thats not lebrons fault...lebron gets mike miller open shots...he just isnt knocking them down...james jones was knocking down the same shots mike miller is missing...and once again i missed out how that was lebrons fault?

Arch Stanton
03-23-2011, 07:53 PM
We are getting a taste of this this season as the Cavs are, obviously, poised for a good run well into June...

You really think they go from 66-16 to 13-56 just because of their fast break and defense ??? IF Mike Brown's system had that much to do with their record, he wouldn't have been fired...

You, honestly, don't think it has to do with their personnel ???

That's such a weak comparison. Who on the Cavs is currently playing that was also on the team last year? Really J.J. Hickson is the only player that has played consistently throughout the year. I'm not saying that they would be any sort of legitimate threat. But there team is completely transformed at this point either by trades, or injuries.
Also Mike Brown was fired more for political reasons. Gilbert was trying to keep LeBron and was doing what he thought LeBron wanted.

Avenged
03-23-2011, 07:55 PM
because you said earlier your main point was kobe has won and lebron hasnt



so you would take kobe even though you admitted in the same post that lebron is a better "regular season" player because kobe has won???

like i said...you give lebron the same exact laker teams kobe was on and lebron would have a ring to

Yes, because I did say regular season. I said I'd take Kobe in the playoffs for the simple fact that he has won and his mentality is different.

That's your opinion, I don't think Lebron would work under the triangle offense. And there's no guarantee Lebron would win, Kobe so happens to compliment his teammates very well, and vice versa. Just because it's Lebron, doesn't guarantee anything.

Give me Lebron for the regular season any day. If there would be a draft with all the current NBA players in this current state, I'm picking Lebron first. I just hold Kobe in a higher regard because he has won regardless of whatever team he has. Lebron will eventually win, but we have yet to see that.

Raidaz4Life
03-23-2011, 07:56 PM
did you not see anything with making mo williams an all star and making james jones a sharp shooter? or the fact that he had bobbie gibson and sasha pavolic as his starting backcourt??? i mean he had to make that back court better to make the finals...cause you can lead your team to the finals...but you cant do it yourself...and lebron made his team better to be able to reach the finals



so mo williams is a great player??? hes a multiple time allstar who has been on 5 first teams all nba right??

mo williams is a decent player...lebron made him an allstar for a season...how is that not making someone better??

as far as mike miller goes...thats just mike...hes trying to hard and hasnt been consistent shooting...thats not lebrons fault...lebron gets mike miller open shots...he just isnt knocking them down...james jones was knocking down the same shots mike miller is missing...and once again i missed out how that was lebrons fault?

I don't see why you are fixated on Mo Williams being an all star for one season. If you look at his statistics, traditional or advanced they were roughly the same before Lebron and roughly the same after. Its not like Lebron turned him from a scrub into an established perennial all star. He has always been a borderline lower level all star player that was bound to luck into it eventually and it just happened to be one of the seasons Lebron was there.... but in reality you cannot point out specifically how Mo Williams became better playing with Lebron.

James Jones was a sharp shooter long before this year... as I said before his best season was by far in 07-08 in Portland... he is only getting recognition this year because he is on a super team.

I suppose we are going to have to agree to disagree with Mike Miller. I just don't see how he can regress that much by playing with someone who supposedly makes his teammates better. Not to mention playing with Wade as well.



In all honesty I am still waiting for a clear cut example of Lebron making a player significantly better by playing alongside him.

Don't get me wrong I am not committed to naming any one player "the best in the league". I am playing devil's advocate more than anything at this point.

EaglesJackson10
03-23-2011, 08:00 PM
I hate Lebron and my guess is that I hated him before the majority of people did but I can't deny he is probably the best player in the league.

cubs0707
03-23-2011, 08:02 PM
I just read the Greg Anthony said that in a few years D.Rose will be the best player in the league. I like D.Rose and I think he is the best scoring PG in the game today and has a chance to be the best PG in the league and might even be right now. We have to just judge the player and take what you think about a guy and take out the hate and bias you have for a player and think, LeBron is the best basketball player in this league and hes got that spot on lock for a while. He is never going to be Jordan or Kobe but you cant tell me now or in a few years Rose,Durant,Howard,Griffin,etc. are better than James. He has his some deficiencies but the things this guy can do no one else in this league can do on a night to night basis. The guy is still averaging 26 7 and 7 if he was in Cleveland this year with those numbers him and Rose would be head to head in the MVP race.

thats a slap in the face to rose durant and howard

ne3xchamps
03-23-2011, 08:03 PM
and the point of this thread is.............................:confused:

evadatam5150
03-23-2011, 08:04 PM
I just read the Greg Anthony said that in a few years D.Rose will be the best player in the league. I like D.Rose and I think he is the best scoring PG in the game today and has a chance to be the best PG in the league and might even be right now. We have to just judge the player and take what you think about a guy and take out the hate and bias you have for a player and think, LeBron is the best basketball player in this league and hes got that spot on lock for a while. He is never going to be Jordan or Kobe but you cant tell me now or in a few years Rose,Durant,Howard,Griffin,etc. are better than James. He has his some deficiencies but the things this guy can do no one else in this league can do on a night to night basis. The guy is still averaging 26 7 and 7 if he was in Cleveland this year with those numbers him and Rose would be head to head in the MVP race.

Skill - Check
Athleticism - Check
IQ - ?
Desire - Uh Nope
Leadership - Still questionable

I guess the point here is that to be the best takes more than raw talent which Lebron has in bunches.. But he isn't a great leader, he folds under pressure (more often than not) and he's proven he's not willing to be the man.. Will that come with more experience..?? Hasn't appeared to yet.. I guess the question really depends on one's definition of what the best really means to them.. Guy's an amazing athlete though..

Bruno
03-23-2011, 08:05 PM
like i said...you give lebron the same exact laker teams kobe was on and lebron would have a ring to

While that's probably true...

We aren't dealing with perhaps, maybe, or could haves here. They're fine hypotheticals, but what has happened has happened. LeBron has done what he's done, Kobe has done what he's done. I'd suggest you refrain from including "what-if" scenarios as a part of your argument in LeBron threads; it will just lead to flaming. Hypothetical always de-rail debates.

Again, not because your hypothetical isn't feasible, just because reality is reality, and it will just lead to fighting, rather than constructive debating.

Tony_Starks
03-23-2011, 08:07 PM
LeBron is a better shooter and defender, the closer thing is debatable.


I'll give you debatle on defender. Wade is defenitely a better shooter, Lebron hasn't even developed a consistent mid-range game yet. Boston backs off dares him to shoot.

The closer thing, come on bruh. You saw the difference just this year when they let Lebron close and D Wade close. In the clutch Wade is up there with Kobe.....

AIRMAR72
03-23-2011, 08:09 PM
I've said it 700 times and i'll say it again...

Put LeBron on a team with Robert Horry, Derek Fisher, Shaquille O'Neal ( in his prime), Rick Fox, Ron Harper and so on, he wins multiple championships without blinking...

When your second option is Mo Williams and Anderson Varejo, you aren't winning a chip...


I'll put it to you this way, i'll take LeBron in the playoffs from this year forward... You can have Kobe... i agree and also Bron came in the league better than kobe as rookie so did Wade ive seen all 3 guys in the flesh at work wade overall game is better VS bron.. wade dosent really need a pick or a lane to go to the basket bron does bron his bigger and stronger physically and his J has improve i think bron WILL might be stronger than wade but wade had offcourt issue so its harder for to stay focus wade my favorite of the 2 but bron is better this year so far

magic0320
03-23-2011, 08:09 PM
like i said...you give lebron the same exact laker teams kobe was on and lebron would have a ring to

and Kobe would still have won last 2 championships with Lebron's team lol :cool:

poleandreel
03-23-2011, 08:09 PM
Skill - Check
Athleticism - Check
IQ - ?
Desire - Uh Nope
Leadership - Still questionable

I guess the point here is that to be the best takes more than raw talent which Lebron has in bunches.. But he isn't a great leader, he folds under pressure (more often than not) and he's proven he's not willing to be the man.. Will that come with more experience..?? Hasn't appeared to yet.. I guess the question really depends on one's definition of what the best really means to them.. Guy's an amazing athlete though..

are you kidding me? The guy leaves his team and hometown for a chance to win but he has no desire? you are clearly an idiot.

no leadership? he showed it during the all star game when he went in the huddle when they were down 14 and got everyone fired up and brought them back.

But yea, he has no heart/passion/leadership/desire....

Yankees Suck
03-23-2011, 08:10 PM
and the point of this thread is.............................:confused:

x2

blams
03-23-2011, 08:11 PM
I have no dislike for Lebron at all but I've watched a lot of Heat games where I've actually walked away much more impressed with D Wade than him. From a stat perspective and sheer athleticism and ability Lebron is the man but if I had to choose between the two I'd take D Wade. Better defender, more reliable shooter and closer IMO.

LeBron is a first team quality defender...Wade... isn't.

The past 2 seasons, LeBron is a more dependable shooter.

:confused:

blams
03-23-2011, 08:11 PM
and Kobe would still have won last 2 championships with Lebron's team lol :cool:

You're mixing it up. The Lakers still would have won had they had LeBron instead of Kobe. The Cavs wouldn't have been close to winning.

Cano4prez
03-23-2011, 08:16 PM
Wade is a dependable defender

blams
03-23-2011, 08:17 PM
I didn't say he wasn't. I implied he isn't a first team defender, while LeBron is.

Tuck&Rolle
03-23-2011, 08:18 PM
Theres no way Lebron is better then Kobe, maybe he's stronger, faster, and younger but Kobe is still the better player. Not to mention Kobe wins and Lebron has yet to do so and the last time I checked we judge NBA stars on how many titles they have.

Cano4prez
03-23-2011, 08:22 PM
Theres no way Lebron is better then Kobe, maybe he's stronger, faster, and younger but Kobe is still the better player. Not to mention Kobe wins and Lebron has yet to do so and the last time I checked we judge NBA stars on how many titles they have.

:confused:

Also basketball is a team game, and all Kobe's championship teams were stacked

poleandreel
03-23-2011, 08:22 PM
Theres no way Lebron is better then Kobe, maybe he's stronger, faster, and younger but Kobe is still the better player. Not to mention Kobe wins and Lebron has yet to do so and the last time I checked we judge NBA stars on how many titles they have.

says the guy who wants plaxico back. he was a mediocre receiver before he went to jail for 2 years. So, your desire for wanting him back makes me question your knowledge of sports, therefore, your analysis on kobe vs lebron will not be taken seriously.

Rivera
03-23-2011, 08:25 PM
Yes, because I did say regular season. I said I'd take Kobe in the playoffs for the simple fact that he has won and his mentality is different.

That's your opinion, I don't think Lebron would work under the triangle offense. And there's no guarantee Lebron would win, Kobe so happens to compliment his teammates very well, and vice versa. Just because it's Lebron, doesn't guarantee anything.

Give me Lebron for the regular season any day. If there would be a draft with all the current NBA players in this current state, I'm picking Lebron first. I just hold Kobe in a higher regard because he has won regardless of whatever team he has. Lebron will eventually win, but we have yet to see that.

i personally (my opinion) would think lebron could flourish in a triangle...if miami ran the triangle offense...that would be the most perfect ideal offense the heat could run

and avengend...kobe fits well with his teammates cause no one on the lakers will ever tell kobe to pass the ball or he took a bad shot :laugh2:

who is gonna step up to kobe to say stop shooting?? lamar odom? pau gasol :laugh2:

and for the record...twice kobes teams have finished #7 in the western conference

besides lebrons rookie year....a lebron led team has never finished below 4th place


I don't see why you are fixated on Mo Williams being an all star for one season. If you look at his statistics, traditional or advanced they were roughly the same before Lebron and roughly the same after. Its not like Lebron turned him from a scrub into an established perennial all star. He has always been a borderline lower level all star player that was bound to luck into it eventually and it just happened to be one of the seasons Lebron was there.... but in reality you cannot point out specifically how Mo Williams became better playing with Lebron.

James Jones was a sharp shooter long before this year... as I said before his best season was by far in 07-08 in Portland... he is only getting recognition this year because he is on a super team.

I suppose we are going to have to agree to disagree with Mike Miller. I just don't see how he can regress that much by playing with someone who supposedly makes his teammates better. Not to mention playing with Wade as well.



In all honesty I am still waiting for a clear cut example of Lebron making a player significantly better by playing alongside him.

Don't get me wrong I am not committed to naming any one player "the best in the league". I am playing devil's advocate more than anything at this point.

im not even gonna continue to read your post and debate with you if you dont read my post

so mo williams is an allstar right?? no but lebron made him one...so lebron made mo a better player...

his back court when he went to the finals was sasha pavolic and bobbie gibson...he obviously made them better by making it to the finals with them...

but go ahead continue to ignore my post

cause in your eyes mo williams is a great player and a perenial all star


While that's probably true...

We aren't dealing with perhaps, maybe, or could haves here. They're fine hypotheticals, but what has happened has happened. LeBron has done what he's done, Kobe has done what he's done. I'd suggest you refrain from including "what-if" scenarios as a part of your argument in LeBron threads; it will just lead to flaming. Hypothetical always de-rail debates.

Again, not because your hypothetical isn't feasible, just because reality is reality, and it will just lead to fighting, rather than constructive debating.

deff for sure....

the only point i have been trying to make with my "what ifs"...is up to this point lebron has never had a great supporting cast or another all star besides him until now...

lebron has officially ran out of excuses if he doesnt win a championship cause he has two other allstars on his team....

and remember...lebron has 2 mvps compared to kobes 1....lebron will get a chip one day...

cause i compare lebron to arod..all time great players...seems to always have trouble when it matters the most...and just douchebags as personallities...but both players sold there soul to the devil and they will get a chip eventually just because they did so (arod to the yankees....lebron joining wade n bosh on the heat)

Lakers + Giants
03-23-2011, 08:26 PM
As a laker fan, i would have to say Lebron is the best player in the NBA. Kobe is the best closer, which is why I rather have him on the lakers. Playoffs is all about closing. Lebron>Kobe, but not during crunch time or the playoffs IMO.

heathonater
03-23-2011, 08:27 PM
lebron is the best player in the league right now, and has been for a couple years. for much of his career lebron has had an awful supporting cast and basically carried cleveland to the finals in '07. just because kobe has more rings doesnt mean he's better than lebron now. kobe is a great player, but his supporting cast has been really good ever since the gasol trade.

Rivera
03-23-2011, 08:27 PM
Theres no way Lebron is better then Kobe, maybe he's stronger, faster, and younger but Kobe is still the better player. Not to mention Kobe wins and Lebron has yet to do so and the last time I checked we judge NBA stars on how many titles they have.

no....no we dont

maybe you do but the rest of us dont....

is it a part of the way how we argue??? yes but is it the sole thing i judge my star player on? absoloutley not

i mean we can agree chauncey billups is a star NBA player right??? but is he better than lebron???

well according to tuck&rolle's logic he is

IBleedPurple
03-23-2011, 08:29 PM
Yes, he has the best stats......but I'd still take Kobe anyday. And I definitly dislike the Lakers

Sixerlover
03-23-2011, 08:31 PM
LeBron has been a better player thank Kobe for a couple years now. Doesn't mean Kobe isn't the better winner.

E.O.21
03-23-2011, 08:34 PM
I refuse to hate on a guy that took a Cavs team that had Drew Gooden and Larry Hughes :facepalm: to the Finals (at the age of 22)

Dont forget MJ started winning rings in his 8th season. Now Lebron has the team to accomplish things, we'll just have to wait and see

Jewelz0376
03-23-2011, 08:36 PM
another kobe vs lebron thread lol..

akagiredsuns
03-23-2011, 08:37 PM
dwight howard is right there with LBj as the best player in the league i dont really care if you disagree

dwight maybe the best or 2nd best player behind lebron in the whole league

dwight has the 2nd highest PER...we all know dominant of a defender dwight is and he is accounted for 12.6 win shares this season...lebron has accounted for 12.9 win shares

Click here For Comparison (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=bryanko01&y1=2011&p2=jamesle01&y2=2011&p3=howardw01&y3=2011&p4=rosede01&y4=2011)

dwight has been playing incredible basketball this year hes improved his offense significantly and dwight doesnt have another all star caliber player on his team compared to rose/kobe/lebron

Dwight Howard is playing in an era with no true dominant centers (Duncan old, Shaq past his prime, Garnett banged up knees, & Bosh :laugh2: enough said). Put him back in the 90s with the likes of Olajuwon, Ewing, & a young Shaq, hell even Barkley who was a PF and he would be easily overpowered and be barely above average at best.

As for LBJ, to me he's not the best. I give Kobe the edge still because Kobe steps it up in the playoffs and proved to everyone twice that he could do it without Shaq. Not to mention 5 RINGS. LeBron simply CANNOT win the BIG game. Didn't he miss like 4 straight game winning shots (2 against the Bulls :nod:) He quit last year against Boston in the playoffs. Force LBJ to go to his left and he is easily stopped. Not attempting to troll or bait. Just my opinion is all. :clap:

theheatles
03-23-2011, 08:40 PM
LeBron is a first team quality defender...Wade... isn't.

The past 2 seasons, LeBron is a more dependable shooter.

:confused:

I'm willing to bet wade makes an all nba defensive team this year...wade contained kobe both times they played leaving him to terrible shooting games while kobe couldn't check wade because wade is too quick for kobe now, with that said somehow kobe will be 1st team over wade...

Cano4prez
03-23-2011, 08:42 PM
Dwight Howard is playing in an era with no true dominant centers (Duncan old, Shaq past his prime, Garnett banged up knees, & Bosh :laugh2: enough said). Put him back in the 90s with the likes of Olajuwon, Ewing, & a young Shaq, hell even Barkley who was a PF and he would be easily overpowered and be barely above average at best.

As for LBJ, to me he's not the best. I give Kobe the edge still because Kobe steps it up in the playoffs and proved to everyone twice that he could do it without Shaq. Not to mention 5 RINGS. LeBron simply CANNOT win the BIG game. Didn't he miss like 4 straight game winning shots (2 against the Bulls :nod:) He quit last year against Boston in the playoffs. Force LBJ to go to his left and he is easily stopped. Not attempting to troll or bait. Just my opinion is all. :clap:

He won with the best or the 2nd best PF in the league in Gasol, and an absolutely stacked team. LeBron has hit clutch shots plenty of times in his career. Has he disappointed this year? Yes. That doesn't mean he's not clutch at all. And "force LBJ to the left and he is easily stopped." If its that easy why is he the best scorer in the league?

Jewelz0376
03-23-2011, 08:44 PM
I'm willing to bet wade makes an all nba defensive team this year...wade contained kobe both times they played leaving him to terrible shooting games while kobe couldn't check wade because wade is too quick for kobe now, with that said somehow kobe will be 1st team over wade...

what does 2 games have to do with a player being an all league defender??

Jewelz0376
03-23-2011, 08:46 PM
He won with the best or the 2nd best PF in the league in Gasol, and an absolutely stacked team. LeBron has hit clutch shots plenty of times in his career. Has he disappointed this year? Yes. That doesn't mean he's not clutch at all. And "force LBJ to the left and he is easily stopped." If its that easy why is he the best scorer in the league?

Kobe Pau Odom and 1 legged Bynum isn't ne more stacked that the Heat team this year...so what will be Lebron's excuse if they don't win??

Vidball
03-23-2011, 08:47 PM
What aspect of the game is LeBron the best at? He's not a top shooter, not a great lock-down defender, he's not a great closer, he's suspect in the post, he's not a proven winner...he is VERY VERY good, but for people to call him the best when he plays alongside a guy that is a better closer, lock-down defender, and a guy who is a proven winner is kind of disrespectful to Wade IMO (not to mention the guy in my sig who has been to the 7 of the past 10 Finals with two completely different supporting casts).

Cano4prez
03-23-2011, 08:52 PM
What aspect of the game is LeBron the best at? He's not a top shooter, not a great lock-down defender, he's not a great closer, he's suspect in the post, he's not a proven winner...he is VERY VERY good, but for people to call him the best when he plays alongside a guy that is a better closer, lock-down defender, and a guy who is a proven winner is kind of disrespectful to Wade IMO (not to mention the guy in my sig who has been to the 7 of the past 10 Finals with two completely different supporting casts).

He is a good shooter, and a great defender. His post game while rusty is still underrated..

To Jewelz I don't know. I'd say that Lakers team>This Heat team though

E.O.21
03-23-2011, 08:52 PM
Kobe Pau Odom and 1 legged Bynum isn't ne more stacked that the Heat team this year...so what will be Lebron's excuse if they don't win??

Outside of the big 3 the Heat dont have anyone. They lack size and the're bench is just horrendous. They wont win it this year (Celtics will)

Until they find the rite peaces to sorround the big 3 with, they wont win. In the other hand LA has obviously better pieces and great size... so yeah the Lakers are more stacked

DaBear
03-23-2011, 08:56 PM
Yes, he certainly is the best player in the NBA. However, he is certainly not the MVP, and it's not just people in Chicago who believe that.

NolanVE
03-23-2011, 09:04 PM
I'd take Derrick Rose over anyone right now, but thats just me.

kswissdaf
03-23-2011, 09:12 PM
Its not Lebron or kobe its wade

IceMan360
03-23-2011, 09:16 PM
Lebron> Kobe too but yes not a fan of him but he may very well be best player in league fior 3-5 more years if not more and was last 2 at least. As for rose Chi has a huge following especially on PSD and he is the media darling right now and hes good is he LBJ, Kobe, Dwade good probably not and def. not yet

:faint:

Wow dude jus wow. As a celtics fan i hate kobe with a passion but to say lebron is better is a stretch. I give you that lebron can put up numbers and is a physical freak but he cant win jack ****, plus he can easily be shut down by a good team or crack under pressure{see him vs boston}. When Kobe starts to decline then i could see LBJ or Rose taking his place but not now. Oyea one more thing quick question if you had one game to win who would you want on you team Kobe or LBJ?

B'sCeltsPatsSox
03-23-2011, 09:18 PM
Is he the best in the NBA? Yes. Does he deserve the MVP? No.

blams
03-23-2011, 09:21 PM
:faint:

Wow dude jus wow. As a celtics fan i hate kobe with a passion but to say lebron is better is a stretch. I give you that lebron can put up numbers and is a physical freak but he cant win jack ****, plus he can easily be shut down by a good team or crack under pressure{see him vs boston}. When Kobe starts to decline then i could see LBJ or Rose taking his place but not now. Oyea one more thing quick question if you had one game to win who would you want on you team Kobe or LBJ?

:speechless:

You're putting too much weight on the 'ships. While they are part of the argument, they aren't enough anymore.

Arch Stanton
03-23-2011, 09:22 PM
because you said earlier your main point was kobe has won and lebron hasnt



so you would take kobe even though you admitted in the same post that lebron is a better "regular season" player because kobe has won???

like i said...you give lebron the same exact laker teams kobe was on and lebron would have a ring to



did you not see anything with making mo williams an all star and making james jones a sharp shooter? or the fact that he had bobbie gibson and sasha pavolic as his starting backcourt??? i mean he had to make that back court better to make the finals...cause you can lead your team to the finals...but you cant do it yourself...and lebron made his team better to be able to reach the finals



so mo williams is a great player??? hes a multiple time allstar who has been on 5 first teams all nba right??

mo williams is a decent player...lebron made him an allstar for a season...how is that not making someone better??

as far as mike miller goes...thats just mike...hes trying to hard and hasnt been consistent shooting...thats not lebrons fault...lebron gets mike miller open shots...he just isnt knocking them down...james jones was knocking down the same shots mike miller is missing...and once again i missed out how that was lebrons fault?

It was also one of the easiest routes to the Finals. Detroit was the only legitimate team they had to get by.

ElMarroAfamado
03-23-2011, 09:35 PM
Check the sig.
For this reason, Kobe is still #1. Rose is creeping up for the simple fact that unlike Lebrick, he has worked on his shot to a point where he is a threat from everywhere on the floor just rely on the paint or the refs.

TylerSL
03-23-2011, 09:35 PM
It was also one of the easiest routes to the Finals. Detroit was the only legitimate team they had to get by.

lol its totally easy to get to the Finals when you are 22 and have to lead your team to get anywhere :rolleyes: Also, you act like Detroit was just a "tough" team, when in fact they were in their 5th straight ECF appearance..... Just stop dude...

ElMarroAfamado
03-23-2011, 09:37 PM
What aspect of the game is LeBron the best at? He's not a top shooter, not a great lock-down defender, he's not a great closer, he's suspect in the post, he's not a proven winner...he is VERY VERY good, but for people to call him the best when he plays alongside a guy that is a better closer, lock-down defender, and a guy who is a proven winner is kind of disrespectful to Wade IMO (not to mention the guy in my sig who has been to the 7 of the past 10 Finals with two completely different supporting casts).

:clap:
I think people are blinded by his dunks and his leaking out on a break and getting wide open layups. Or him getting the ball midcourt and just running all the way to the other side to get a dunk or layup. His offense is so comical in the halfcourt I just laugh when I see him now and think of Corey Maggette. There is nothing funnier in the NBA than watching Lebron James and Rajon Rondo when they cant get to the paint....the stuff is comedy gold.

TylerSL
03-23-2011, 09:39 PM
Check the sig.
For this reason, Kobe is still #1. Rose is creeping up for the simple fact that unlike Lebrick, he has worked on his shot to a point where he is a threat from everywhere on the floor just rely on the paint or the refs.

lol. Its funny because you accually believe that Lebron=Magette.

theheatles
03-23-2011, 09:44 PM
what does 2 games have to do with a player being an all league defender??

why so negative, it's an example of wade containing kobe ****en bryant ...he has played amazing defense this yr and like i said he will be an all nba defensive player

wade had been on the 2nd team all defense past 2 yrs so i'm not being nostradamus or anything...and kobe has won 1st team over wade, and wade outperforming kobe on both occasions should bolster wade over kobe into 1st team but i think kobe will still somehow get it

Arch Stanton
03-23-2011, 09:46 PM
lol its totally easy to get to the Finals when you are 22 and have to lead your team to get anywhere :rolleyes: Also, you act like Detroit was just a "tough" team, when in fact they were in their 5th straight ECF appearance..... Just stop dude...

Wow another delusional Heat fan:

Second-worst: 2007 Cavaliers.

-Data: Finished 50-32, second seed in weak East. Before getting to the finals, Cleveland swept an injury-obliterated Washington in the first round, took six games to up-end a bad Nets team in the second, then cleaned out the No. 1 seed Pistons in six.

-Best regular players: LeBron James, Drew Gooden, Daniel Gibson.

-Worst regular players: Damon Jones, Donyell Marshall.

-What clinched second-worst: Had easiest road to the conference finals in recent NBA history, went 20-21 on the road.

-Why not the worst: That LeBron Guy. And thatís the only reason.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2007/06/05/cleveland-isnt-the-worst-nba-finalist-in-decades-but-its-close/

sargon21
03-23-2011, 09:49 PM
Can he win when it matters?

TylerSL
03-23-2011, 09:53 PM
why so negative, it's an example of wade containing kobe fckn bryant ...he has played amazing defense this yr and like i said he will be an all nba defensive player

THIS

also to say Wade isnt all NBA defender is crazy. In 2008, Wade averaged 1.3 Blocks/game..... Wade is a guard and averages 1.8 SPG for a career and averages 1.0 BPG for a career and is a gaurd. He is also an amazing on the ball and help defender. Kobe has always won all defensive first team every year, but Wade has been a better defender every year, just the people that vote for All Defensive Teams are a joke...

Cano4prez
03-23-2011, 09:58 PM
Check the sig.
For this reason, Kobe is still #1. Rose is creeping up for the simple fact that unlike Lebrick, he has worked on his shot to a point where he is a threat from everywhere on the floor just rely on the paint or the refs.


Durant is shooting 40.5% on jumpers from 10-23 feet, on 9.2 attempts (wow!) per game. He is assisted on 59.1% of them

Kobe is shooting 42.5% on jumpers from 10-23 feet, on 8.9 attempts per game. He is assisted on 28% of them

Martin is shooting 35.5% on jumpers from 10-23 feet, on 5.1 attempts per game. He is assisted on 46% of them

Lebron is shooting 43.6% on jumpers from 10-23 feet, on 7.2 attempts per game. He is assisted on 20.1% of them

Anthony is shooting 40.3% on jumpers from 10-23 feet, on 8.0 attempts per game. He is assisted on 35.7% of them

Rose is shooting 39.4% on jumpers from 10-23 feet, on 6.8 attempts per game. He is assisted on 15.6% of them

Wade is shooting 38.8% on jumpers from 10-23 feet, on 5.6 attempts per game. He is assisted on 28.5% of them

Granger is shooting 33.7% on jumpers from 10-23 feet, on 5.4 attempts per game. He is assisted on 36.6% of them

:) Not to mention LeBron shoots the 3 better than most of the above too. Including Kobe, Wade, and Rose

ttam68
03-23-2011, 09:59 PM
Theres a ****ing 40 page thread on this. What is wrong with you?

Arch Stanton
03-23-2011, 10:05 PM
QUOTE: im not even gonna continue to read your post and debate with you if you dont read my post

so mo williams is an allstar right?? no but lebron made him one...so lebron made mo a better player...

his back court when he went to the finals was sasha pavolic and bobbie gibson...he obviously made them better by making it to the finals with them...

but go ahead continue to ignore my post

cause in your eyes mo williams is a great player and a perenial all star QUOTE

.................................................. .................................................. ..............................................

I don't think he was necessarily saying Mo Williams was an all-star. Mo just got more attention when he played with LeBron. He's just saying he's numbers didn't dramatically go up because of LeBron.

Jayb587
03-23-2011, 10:10 PM
mo williams number went dramitcally down with lebron expecially assists. Whereas players join kobe and have career years and sometime never be good anywhere else. all these players numbers went up wit kobe

Pau, Lamar, Shannon Brown, Kwame, smush, Radmonovich, and alot more, please. Kobe is the man he makes bum play better

TylerSL
03-23-2011, 10:13 PM
Wow another delusional Heat fan:

Second-worst: 2007 Cavaliers.

-Data: Finished 50-32, second seed in weak East. Before getting to the finals, Cleveland swept an injury-obliterated Washington in the first round, took six games to up-end a bad Nets team in the second, then cleaned out the No. 1 seed Pistons in six.

-Best regular players: LeBron James, Drew Gooden, Daniel Gibson.

-Worst regular players: Damon Jones, Donyell Marshall.

-What clinched second-worst: Had easiest road to the conference finals in recent NBA history, went 20-21 on the road.

-Why not the worst: That LeBron Guy. And that’s the only reason.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2007/06/05/cleveland-isnt-the-worst-nba-finalist-in-decades-but-its-close/



you do relize, Cleveland did not have a very good team that year..... Lebron carried them at 22...... This was their roster....

Lebron James
Shannon Brown
Daniel Gibson
Big Z
Larry Hughes
Damon Jones
Dwyane Jones
Donyell Marshall
Ira Newble
Sasha Pablovic
Scot Pollard
Anderson Varajao
David Westley
Eric Snow (who was also a team captain that year who averaged 4 points, 4 assists, 2 rebounds.....)

Starting lineup
PG. Sasha Pavolic/Eric Snow
SG. Larry Hughes
SF. Lebron James
PF. Drew Gooden
C. Big Z

Shannon Brown and Daniel Gibson were rookies. Ira Newble and Dwyane Jones didnt even play 15 games... Scot Pollard didnt even play 25... Donyell Marshall, Anderson Varajao, and Damon Jones were their 6/7/8 guys (respectively). That team won 50 games.... Yea the only good team in the EC that year was Detroit....... If you take Lebron off that team, they lose 60......... They played a weak Washington, and a weak New Jersey team, but without Lebron they were AWEFUL. Then they upset Detriot in the ECF. I know you hate Lebron because of the summer, but taking them to the finals was a great acomplishment.

DwayneMVPwade
03-23-2011, 10:14 PM
Yeah, right now, but derrick Rose might give him a run for his money in a few years

godolphins
03-23-2011, 10:17 PM
1A. Lebron 1B. Kobe

Arch Stanton
03-23-2011, 10:20 PM
you do relize, Cleveland did not have a very good team that year..... Lebron carried them at 22...... This was their roster....

Lebron James
Shannon Brown
Daniel Gibson
Big Z
Larry Hughes
Damon Jones
Dwyane Jones
Donyell Marshall
Ira Newble
Sasha Pablovic
Scot Pollard
Anderson Varajao
David Westley
Eric Snow (who was also a team captain that year who averaged 4 points, 4 assists, 2 rebounds.....)

Starting lineup
PG. Sasha Pavolic/Eric Snow
SG. Larry Hughes
SF. Lebron James
PF. Drew Gooden
C. Big Z

Shannon Brown and Daniel Gibson were rookies. Ira Newble and Dwyane Jones didnt even play 15 games... Scot Pollard didnt even play 25... Donyell Marshall, Anderson Varajao, and Damon Jones were their 6/7/8 guys (respectively). That team won 50 games.... Yea the only good team in the EC that year was Detroit....... If you take Lebron off that team, they lose 60......... They played a weak Washington, and a weak New Jersey team, but without Lebron they were AWEFUL. Then they upset Detriot in the ECF. I know you hate Lebron because of the summer, but taking them to the finals was a great acomplishment.

You're putting words in my mouth. You obviously didn't read any of my post. I'm not arguing whether or not Cleveland was good. All I'm saying is they had one of the easiest roads to the finals. If Cleveland was in the West they wouldn't have gotten to the finals. Probably not even past the second round.
It seems like your only argument is "you hate LeBron." But I guess that's to be expected from someone like you.
Also you mention how Boobie Gibson was a rookie. But he was a big part of that playoff push to the finals. He had a breakout game against Detroit.

CowboysKB24
03-23-2011, 10:21 PM
Thats pretty much a fact at this point outside of a very, very small amount of Chicago and Orlando fans, and Kobe fans, other then that not many people dispute the fact that Lebron is the best player in the league

People can argue D. Wade though. I'd take him over LBJ. Dwight is close too. No player comes close to his impact on defense and he is the best defensive player. He is actually underrated IMO. If he gets his FT shooting percentage up, forgettabout it.

This kind of off topic, but LBJ should have went to Chicago. He would win the NBA championship no doubt IMO and probably multiple consecutive rings. Rose was an all star last year, but this year he has become an MVP. If LBJ went there, Rose would not be where he is today. My point is, there would be no dispute about him being the best player on his team. There would be no hating him for being a cop out, no legacy tarnished. He made a terrible move going to the Heat and joining the The Heat are going to have trouble winning a championship

Jayb587
03-23-2011, 10:23 PM
sorry but if ur not clutch ur not the best player in the league hahaha

dnewguy
03-23-2011, 10:23 PM
Lebron is like Tim Duncan of old in some ways...you will always wonder what they did in the game then you look at the stats and you're like WOW.

CowboysKB24
03-23-2011, 10:25 PM
you do relize, Cleveland did not have a very good team that year..... Lebron carried them at 22...... This was their roster....

Lebron James
Shannon Brown
Daniel Gibson
Big Z
Larry Hughes
Damon Jones
Dwyane Jones
Donyell Marshall
Ira Newble
Sasha Pablovic
Scot Pollard
Anderson Varajao
David Westley
Eric Snow (who was also a team captain that year who averaged 4 points, 4 assists, 2 rebounds.....)

Starting lineup
PG. Sasha Pavolic/Eric Snow
SG. Larry Hughes
SF. Lebron James
PF. Drew Gooden
C. Big Z

Shannon Brown and Daniel Gibson were rookies. Ira Newble and Dwyane Jones didnt even play 15 games... Scot Pollard didnt even play 25... Donyell Marshall, Anderson Varajao, and Damon Jones were their 6/7/8 guys (respectively). That team won 50 games.... Yea the only good team in the EC that year was Detroit....... If you take Lebron off that team, they lose 60......... They played a weak Washington, and a weak New Jersey team, but without Lebron they were AWEFUL. Then they upset Detriot in the ECF. I know you hate Lebron because of the summer, but taking them to the finals was a great acomplishment.

LBJ did great, but the Cavs still got embarrassed in the Finals. I don't really know why this matters. Cavs lost. It was years ago.

CowboysKB24
03-23-2011, 10:31 PM
I just read the Greg Anthony said that in a few years D.Rose will be the best player in the league. I like D.Rose and I think he is the best scoring PG in the game today and has a chance to be the best PG in the league and might even be right now. We have to just judge the player and take what you think about a guy and take out the hate and bias you have for a player and think, LeBron is the best basketball player in this league and hes got that spot on lock for a while. He is never going to be Jordan or Kobe but you cant tell me now or in a few years Rose,Durant,Howard,Griffin,etc. are better than James. He has his some deficiencies but the things this guy can do no one else in this league can do on a night to night basis. The guy is still averaging 26 7 and 7 if he was in Cleveland this year with those numbers him and Rose would be head to head in the MVP race.

Greg Anthony could be right. Derrick Rose the best point guard in the league. What he did with Chicago is very impressive.

There is no denying LBJ talent. His size, speed, athleticism, body control are just unreal. His defense is great and passing ability. His transition game is unstoppable and so is his ability to get to the hoop. He just lacks having the clutch gene and long range shooting. I said this before, late game situations are against him. He scores best when driving to the hoop, but refs don't call fouls unless they are tough fouls. So that hurts him. He isn't the best shooter and doesn't make the best decisions at the end of games. That is really his only flaw. That is why D.Wade gets my vote as the best player in the game.

mttwlsn16
03-23-2011, 10:57 PM
if by best u mean least clutch...then youre spot on

whitemamba33
03-23-2011, 11:20 PM
did you not see anything with making mo williams an all star and making james jones a sharp shooter? or the fact that he had bobbie gibson and sasha pavolic as his starting backcourt??? i mean he had to make that back court better to make the finals...cause you can lead your team to the finals...but you cant do it yourself...and lebron made his team better to be able to reach the finals




Really? Ive said the word PLAYOFFS like 50 times, and you are STILL going to come here and tell me that Williams was an allstar? That has nothing at all to do with what i'm talking about.

The stats are there. Go look at last season. Almost every player was down in production heading into the playoffs. He gets the most out of guys during the reg season, but not always during the playoffs. That's my point, and I've given you proof.

Denver-boy
03-23-2011, 11:22 PM
IMO its still kobe, lebron doesnt win enough just puts up better stats

im not hating on Kobe, But switch Kobe with Lebron for the lakers, I Will promise YOU, Lebron will Win ALOT!!!

IMO the only thing Lebron needs from KObe is... Composure, Maturity, and Leadership, If he Grows in those in those Area's Sky the Limit....

Wade is mature Player!! he that type of Player lebron needs to be.....talk to wade more lebron... Lebron will grow

mikealike305
03-23-2011, 11:26 PM
im not hating on Kobe, But switch Kobe with Lebron for the lakers, I Will promise YOU, Lebron will Win ALOT!!!

IMO the only thing Lebron needs from KObe is... Composure, Maturity, and Leadership, If he Grows in those in those Area's Sky the Limit....

Wade is mature Player!! he that type of Player lebron needs to be.....talk to wade more lebron... Lebron will grow

Well said

lakeshow3peat
03-23-2011, 11:35 PM
lebron not the best in nba news flash does he have a title? nope
And if Blake , Durant , Rose wins a title possible this year for Durant and Rose then they will be greater than Lebron . All Lebron has is big and most athletic but that doesnt mean hes the best .

Jewelz0376
03-23-2011, 11:37 PM
im not hating on Kobe, But switch Kobe with Lebron for the lakers, I Will promise YOU, Lebron will Win ALOT!!!

IMO the only thing Lebron needs from KObe is... Composure, Maturity, and Leadership, If he Grows in those in those Area's Sky the Limit....

Wade is mature Player!! he that type of Player lebron needs to be.....talk to wade more lebron... Lebron will grow

Well if you wanna say that then I can counter with put Kobe on the Heat and they would win...Now obviously the Heat very well could win...but if they don't I dont wanna hear any excuses...Because according to some on here Lebron is by far and away the best player in the league, so he should be able to win with Wade, and Bosh

Kobe not only is a great player himself, but he brings on the best in his teammates...Gasol was known as the best 4 in the league til he played with kobe...Odom didn't reach his prime and become the player he is now until he got to Kobe...Brown was a nobody and once he got on the Lakers he became a solid scorer on the bench...

Kobe wins because he knows how to lead his team and bring out the best in them better than anyone in the league...

Who do I trust to more to put up big numbers?? Lebron...who do I trust more to win Kobe...simple as that for me

AIRMAR72
03-24-2011, 12:15 AM
i can say this kobe offensive game(post game) is better than bron and wade combine but any guy WHO PLAY DA GAME know that its base on your WILL when it comes to making basket its not dunking or leaping or fadeaways its about putting the ball in the basket when it counts and bron have been doing that he might get MVP or coMVP

championships
03-24-2011, 12:19 AM
You will kneel before your king and kiss the ring on his finger......... Oh wait there isn't one there.

Chicagofaithful
03-24-2011, 12:29 AM
His physical abilities are unmatched as well as his play-making abilities. So if we were to judge who would win in a 1v1 game LBJ is KING and theres no one who could come close to his range of skills and athleticism. However I would argue his Basketball IQ is just above average and nothing more. My reasoning is definitely my own opinion and not based on fact but I believe truly deep down LBJ wants to be champion with 1 condition that he is the hero. And i think that fact holds him back from truly "dominating" the game. If he were willing to admit yes 99% of the time im the best player on the court and because of that I don't have to always hit game winners or be the leading scorer then I think LBJ would lock down the league for the next decade. But because he's so gifted things often came easily to him and thus as of right now are holding him back from being the best he can be and thats why despite his numbers and the fact that he's playing with 2 other top 15 players they dont have the best record in the east. I know the heat need at a PG and a C but they should have the best regular season record if LBJ learned to play within a team and not think that everything must stem from him this is one of the main reasons I love Adrian Wojornowski.... the guy reads that whole situation perfectly

CowboysKB24
03-24-2011, 12:37 AM
im not hating on Kobe, But switch Kobe with Lebron for the lakers, I Will promise YOU, Lebron will Win ALOT!!!

IMO the only thing Lebron needs from KObe is... Composure, Maturity, and Leadership, If he Grows in those in those Area's Sky the Limit....

Wade is mature Player!! he that type of Player lebron needs to be.....talk to wade more lebron... Lebron will grow

What's your point? You could say that about a lot of players; Wade, Durant, Derrick Rose, Dirk, maybe Melo, etc...

Put any of those guys on the Heat for LBJ... they'll win a lot too.

Problem with the Heat is their chemistry. Wade and LBJ are just too similar and it is having a negative affect on the role players. The stats show the Heat are better when just Wade and LBJ aren't on the floor together. They have a great roster considering they have the two best players in the NBA on their team and a top 5 PF. I hate when I see people blaming Bosh or the coaching staff or the bench, there is just a lack of chemistry. Anyone who watches the Heat sees it clearly. Heat will go 20 straight possessions with either LBJ or Wade shooting it and sometimes there is maybe one or two passes. LBJ needs to turn into Magic Johnson. Shoot the ball 15 times a game, efficient shots, and just facilitate the game. Instead of 27-7-7, his stat line should be more like 21-9-10. Bosh can average over 20 easy.

LBJ is mature. Wade is the leader of the team, but LBJ leadership is good enough. His problem is clutch and ability to create his own jumpshots and make them and outside shooting.

Shmontaine
03-24-2011, 12:38 AM
Great players make others around them better... LBJ doesn't do that... in fact, 9 pages into this thread and all the LBJ lovers have yet to show one single person that lebron made better, by stats... no links, just hot gas

I've said it before, LBJ is probably the best regular season 46 minute player... i remember LBJ's finals, they got their ***** handed to them in a sweep.... one of the worst finals ever...

JLynn943
03-24-2011, 12:40 AM
Yeah, LeBron is the best. The only one close is Howard. The only argument against LBJ is the lack of a ring, but honestly that's more a comment on the lack of talent around him until this year.

I'm sick of all the Kobe talk in these threads. He's played on stacked team after stacked team. Of course he's great (and still among the best right now), but he couldn't win a ring by himself either...

jbeezy
03-24-2011, 12:42 AM
Lebron is the most talented player in the NBA but there is a huge difference between being the most talented and being the best player. Lebron still has a lot to prove and a few holes in his game to be considered the best player in the game.

CowboysKB24
03-24-2011, 12:51 AM
Yeah, LeBron is the best. The only one close is Howard. The only argument against LBJ is the lack of a ring, but honestly that's more a comment on the lack of talent around him until this year.

I'm sick of all the Kobe talk in these threads. He's played on stacked team after stacked team. Of course he's great (and still among the best right now), but he couldn't win a ring by himself either...

Every championship team is "stacked". LBJ is playing with the second best player in the game D. Wade and Chris Bosh top 5 PF... they aren't even the best team in the league record wise and it doesn't look it like they are even making it to the finals. And now Kobe hasn't won a ring alone? Talk about stacked team, Kobe's Lakers are no different than Jordan's Bull, Wade's Heat in 06, etc. FYI, the Bulls won 55 games without Jordan when he left for baseball. Lakers are winning 55-58 games with Kobe, take him off the Lakers they aren't winning 55 games. I am not knocking Jordan, just pointing out Lakers aren't crazy stacked.

Regardless of what you want to say about LBJ's Cavaliers, the Cavs won back to back regular season titles and had the back to back MVP on their squad... they didn't make the finals, but you people don't blame LBJ, you blame his teammates.

theheatles
03-24-2011, 12:51 AM
what does 2 games have to do with a player being an all league defender??


Great players make others around them better... LBJ doesn't do that... in fact, 9 pages into this thread and all the LBJ lovers have yet to show one single person that lebron made better, by stats... no links, just hot gas

I've said it before, LBJ is probably the best regular season 46 minute player... i remember LBJ's finals, they got their ***** handed to them in a sweep.... one of the worst finals ever...

Kobe did real well post shaq pre gasol:rolleyes:...81 and 64 in 3 qtrs is nice but the suns continually handed kobe his **** in the playoffs before he got help....and kobe had a better number 2 option then than lebron ever had in cleveland in lamar odom

CowboysKB24
03-24-2011, 12:55 AM
Kobe did real well post shaq pre gasol:rolleyes:...81 and 64 in 3 qtrs is nice but the suns continually handed kobe his **** in the playoffs before he got help....and kobe had a better number 2 option then than lebron ever had in cleveland in lamar odom

Antwan Jameson, Shaq, Mo Williams, Anderson, Hickson, Delonte West, Gibson are a good supporting cast. You don't win back to back MVPs and back to back regular season champs because of one player. LBJ didn't even take them to the finals... please. Check my previous post on page 9, last post on page.

meloman1592
03-24-2011, 12:55 AM
When you look at it from a pure skill/and fundamental standpoint, I think Kobe,Wade,Melo,Cp3,Deron and maybe a few others are ahead of Lebron but from an ability standpoint, nobody in the history of the game compares to him. The combo of size,speed,hops,vision and strength is unmatched.

iggypop123
03-24-2011, 12:56 AM
he's probably the best player. unfortunately there are many nights in which he isnt even the best player on his team.

heyman321
03-24-2011, 01:15 AM
Antwan Jameson, Shaq, Mo Williams, Anderson, Hickson, Delonte West, Gibson are a good supporting cast. You don't win back to back MVPs and back to back regular season champs because of one player. LBJ didn't even take them to the finals... please. Check my previous post on page 9, last post on page.

Yeah Hickson, Williams, Gibson, and the rest of the Cleveland cast did real well this year. I'm not a Lebron fan, my favourite player is Dirk, but face it, he's the best player in the league.

PrestigeWldWde
03-24-2011, 01:29 AM
If we are rewarding stats, then LBJ has the best of anybody. Best player in the league? Don't know about that

I agree.

This is off topic though but I think your sig is bad *** too. In comparison to MJ and his playing style, Kobe is clearly the closest thing we have seen to MJ. He's got the athletic ability, the fade-away, the killer instinct, makes guys on his team better, and just has that MJ attitude when he needs to. The 2 pictures also remind me of the sick 2-handed reverse dunk D. Rose just made against the Hawks tuesday night.

Jewelz0376
03-24-2011, 01:29 AM
Kobe did real well post shaq pre gasol:rolleyes:...81 and 64 in 3 qtrs is nice but the suns continually handed kobe his **** in the playoffs before he got help....and kobe had a better number 2 option then than lebron ever had in cleveland in lamar odom

you mean when Kobe had Odom, Smush parker, walton, mihm, devean george, kwame brown, and brian cook? Yea that team is def better than any team Lebrons been on :rolleyes:..

TylerSL
03-24-2011, 01:31 AM
You're putting words in my mouth. You obviously didn't read any of my post. I'm not arguing whether or not Cleveland was good. All I'm saying is they had one of the easiest roads to the finals. If Cleveland was in the West they wouldn't have gotten to the finals. Probably not even past the second round.
It seems like your only argument is "you hate LeBron." But I guess that's to be expected from someone like you.
Also you mention how Boobie Gibson was a rookie. But he was a big part of that playoff push to the finals. He had a breakout game against Detroit.

ur not understading what I was saying. I was saying it wasnt an easy road to the Finals because THEY were soooo weak. They played weak teams, but it wasnt easy for them because THEY were weak...... :facepalm: No my arguement to you is it wasnt easy for them. Would it have been easy for Detroit that year?? Hell yes, they would have went 8-0 and breezed to the ECF if they played Washington and NJ. Cleveland on the other hand would not because without Lebron, they were weaker than most teams in the EC, if not the weakest........... Even this year, they go from 66 to 15 (projected)........ Lebron makes all the difference. This year you can say they lost Shaq, West, Z, and Mo as well, but even if. Mo played for them until the deadline, Shaq has been injured like all year. But even if you add their WS to Cleveland's win total. All 4 of their WS combined equal to 6.2 (I only added Mo's WS since joining LAC, he had negative WS in Cleveland..) Add 6 wins they are still 19-51 and projected 22 wins..... That is still a 60 loss season... Mike Brown's system was not that good or they would have not fired him, or he would have another job by now and it wasnt as much the other players they lost....

TylerSL
03-24-2011, 01:33 AM
LBJ did great, but the Cavs still got embarrassed in the Finals. I don't really know why this matters. Cavs lost. It was years ago.

the guy I was talking to tried to make it seem like the Cavs cakewalked to the Finals that year, I was proving him wrong...

PrestigeWldWde
03-24-2011, 01:36 AM
When you look at it from a pure skill/and fundamental standpoint, I think Kobe,Wade,Melo,Cp3,Deron and maybe a few others are ahead of Lebron but from an ability standpoint, nobody in the history of the game compares to him. The combo of size,speed,hops,vision and strength is unmatched.

Very true. I think that any time he takes a jump shot he should get slapped. He needs to drive it down the lane and finish or get fouled...because that's what will happen every time. That's why I think him and D. Wade on the same team makes no sense from a productivity standpoint. He can't drive down the lane and kick it out to Wade who wants to drive it back down the lane because he isn't a knockdown shooter. That's why i'm happy that the Bulls built themselves a "team" instead of superstars. The Bulls are perhaps the deepest team in the league and play great all around defense. Bogans is finally producing enough from the SG spot and Korver is coming off the bench knocking down everything in sight. I just hope the Bulls lock up the 1 seed because the momentum will carry into the playoffs and you don't want to have to play a game 7 in a place like Boston, Orlando, or Miami. Yeah, it's off topic, but give me a break lol.

Lake_Show2416
03-24-2011, 01:38 AM
Lebron the best REGULAR season player

Kobe's the best

Unruly Fan
03-24-2011, 01:40 AM
LeBron on a bad team. Kobe on a bad team. Who's better then?

bringinwood
03-24-2011, 02:03 AM
LeBron on a bad team. Kobe on a bad team. Who's better then?

They both were...

Kobe nearly whined his way out of LA...

LeBron took his team to the finals...

magic0320
03-24-2011, 02:10 AM
They both were...

Kobe nearly whined his way out of LA...

LeBron took his team to the finals...

kobe played in the west

lebron played in the east

kobe made it work and won 2 championship

lebron QUIT :o

bringinwood
03-24-2011, 02:14 AM
kobe played in the west

lebron played in the east

kobe made it work and won 2 championship

lebron QUIT :o

Explain how LeBron quit ???

To my latest knowledge, he plays SF on the Miami Heat ???


Kobe nearly whined his way out of LA when they realized Shaq was more missed than anyone could have ever possibly imagined...

Kobe, without a supporting cast, is Allen Iverson's clone...

magic0320
03-24-2011, 02:18 AM
Explain how LeBron quit ???

To my latest knowledge, he plays SF on the Miami Heat ???


Kobe nearly whined his way out of LA when they realized Shaq was more missed than anyone could have ever possibly imagined...

Kobe, without a supporting cast, is Allen Iverson's clone...

didn't he say that he was going to bring championship to cav haha and DID HE??????????????????????????????????????

ans what about the whine man he still won 2 championship with LAKERS :D

haha isn't anyone like that without supporting cast lol name one superstar who won without another star

bringinwood
03-24-2011, 02:25 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/3446/kobe-bryant-says-he-d-like-to-be-traded


I like the part that talks about Kobe wanting out because he didn't feel they could surround him with appropriate talent...


Oh, how little we remember...

bringinwood
03-24-2011, 02:28 AM
didn't he say that he was going to bring championship to cav haha and DID HE??????????????????????????????????????

ans what about the whine man he still won 2 championship with LAKERS :D

haha isn't anyone like that without supporting cast lol name one superstar who won without another star

Sure, LeBron James went to the NBA Finals without another star... I'd consider that a win...

You think that's possible with another basketball player right now ??? I'd love to hear your reasoning...


Kobe is the most overrated player in basketball history... Surround me with the talent he has had in his career and i'll be sporting a championship ring or 4...

magic0320
03-24-2011, 02:30 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/3446/kobe-bryant-says-he-d-like-to-be-traded


I like the part that talks about Kobe wanting out because he didn't feel they could surround him with appropriate talent...


Oh, how little we remember...

hahahaha but what is the result man ... TWO CHAMPIONSHIP :D

all the LA fans are happy with what he has done for us since.

I am sure all the LA fans forgiven him already haha

what a downer :eyebrow:

magic0320
03-24-2011, 02:36 AM
Sure, LeBron James went to the NBA Finals without another star... I'd consider that a win...

You think that's possible with another basketball player right now ??? I'd love to hear your reasoning...


Kobe is the most overrated player in basketball history... Surround me with the talent he has had in his career and i'll be sporting a championship ring or 4...

hahahahahahaha that's win when you get 0-4 ed and getting embarrassed in the biggest stage dream on bro dream on.

and did you see what teams he played that year haha

bringinwood
03-24-2011, 02:37 AM
hahahaha but what is the result man ... TWO CHAMPIONSHIP :D

all the LA fans are happy with what he has done for us since.

I am sure all the LA fans forgiven him already haha

what a downer :eyebrow:

Why is alright for Kobe to demand a trade and force the Laker's hand but it's not alright for LeBron to leave so he can seek out his own championship ????

Kobe acted way worse than LeBron... LeBron never demanded a trade... He left via free agency which is well within his rights...

bringinwood
03-24-2011, 02:40 AM
hahahahahahaha that's win when you get 0-4 ed and getting embarrassed in the biggest stage dream on bro dream on.

and did you see what teams he played that year haha

With this roster... http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2007.html

It most certainly is a win..... To expect a team that has no 2nd option and no real bench to win a championship against the San Antonio Spurs is kind of crazy...

The fact they made it that far is one of the true accomplishments of the 21st century so far...

It's much more than Kobe ever accomplished...

shizzle09
03-24-2011, 02:40 AM
kobe played in the west

lebron played in the east

kobe made it work and won 2 championship

lebron QUIT :o

i think you mean memphis made it work.

CowboysKB24
03-24-2011, 02:42 AM
Why is alright for Kobe to demand a trade and force the Laker's hand but it's not alright for LeBron to leave so he can seek out his own championship ????

Kobe acted way worse than LeBron... LeBron never demanded a trade... He left via free agency which is well within his rights...

You know the answer to this...

LBJ acted was worse than Kobe. He had a TV show about his free agency. He left the Cavs to play with Wade and Bosh in Miami. Bosh Wade and LBJ set up their contracts so they would have the option to play together in 2002. Kobe demanded a trade because the Lakers had Lamar Odom as his wing man for four years. Well within in his rights...

magic0320
03-24-2011, 02:42 AM
Why is alright for Kobe to demand a trade and force the Laker's hand but it's not alright for LeBron to leave so he can seek out his own championship ????

Kobe acted way worse than LeBron... LeBron never demanded a trade... He left via free agency which is well within his rights...

no it wasn't but the RESULT is different man RESULT

that is why Lakers fan forgiven Kobe, and Cav fans hate Lebron more than anyone.

Good thing our gm was smart enough to keep him, and make things work out.

THANKS MITCH!!!!!!!!!!!! :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

lakeshow3peat
03-24-2011, 02:43 AM
Yeah Kobe demanded a trade and look where it got him . Lebron Just left way worse than kobes demand . Lebron demanded a new team and was tired of the cavs they were winning just not playoff games and titles .

magic0320
03-24-2011, 02:44 AM
With this roster... http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2007.html

It most certainly is a win..... To expect a team that has no 2nd option and no real bench to win a championship against the San Antonio Spurs is kind of crazy...

The fact they made it that far is one of the true accomplishments of the 21st century so far...

It's much more than Kobe ever accomplished...

HAHAHA dream on man :cool:

but opinions are opinions so kudos to you lol

lakeshow3peat
03-24-2011, 02:44 AM
i think you mean memphis made it work.

Pau wanted out and to win . So say Heat do get multiple rings would it be fair to say Cavs made it work ? Raptors as well

CowboysKB24
03-24-2011, 02:46 AM
Yeah Hickson, Williams, Gibson, and the rest of the Cleveland cast did real well this year. I'm not a Lebron fan, my favourite player is Dirk, but face it, he's the best player in the league.

That was not a bash post on LBJ not being great, but face it, Wade is better than LBJ. LBJ does not have the clutch gene. Wade can close out quarters better than LBJ. Wade has the intangibles that LBJ does not have. It's true. LBJ has the potential to be the best ever, but I don't think he will ever reach his full potential. You can't teach clutch.

No one can hate on some one for choosing Wade. LBJ and Wade are neck and neck any way you want to look at it. It is a close comparison, but I'd take Wade because he is a proven closer and can hit clutch shots. He can take over playoff series when it matters most. LBJ has done nothing, but show us he can dominate the regular season. It is the truth.

bringinwood
03-24-2011, 02:46 AM
You know the answer to this...

LBJ acted was worse than Kobe. He had a TV show about his free agency. He left the Cavs to play with Wade and Bosh in Miami. Bosh Wade and LBJ set up their contracts so they would have the option to play together in 2002. Kobe demanded a trade because the Lakers had Lamar Odom as his wing man for four years. Well within in his rights...

All I know about this is that Kobe wouldn't have played with Odom as his wing man while LeBron would have welcomed him with open arms...

LeBron played through the turmoil and then went to a better team...

Kobe wouldn't have played with the Lakers if they didn't get Pau...

You're lucky the Grizz gave you a gift... You'd have Lamar Odom as your number one option right now... lmao...

magic0320
03-24-2011, 02:46 AM
i think you mean memphis made it work.

haha yeah, but i give credit to Mitch as well for looking around lol

magic0320
03-24-2011, 02:49 AM
All I know about this is that Kobe wouldn't have played with Odom as his wing man while LeBron would have welcomed him with open arms...

LeBron played through the turmoil and then went to a better team...

Kobe wouldn't have played with the Lakers if they didn't get Pau...

You're lucky the Grizz gave you a gift... You'd have Lamar Odom as your number one option right now... lmao...

aaahhhhhhhhh ....k?

he played without Gasol, and was first seed that year till they got gasol, so i am going to say you are wrong :D

bringinwood
03-24-2011, 02:49 AM
haha yeah, but i give credit to Mitch as well for looking around lol

It's called " luck "...

Imagine, if you will, the Lakers not getting Pau Gasol...

No Gasol means Kobe is out...

Kobe out means Odom and Bynum as your first and second options...

This would, in turn, mean that you wouldn't be a laker fan right now... lmao

magic0320
03-24-2011, 02:54 AM
It's called " luck "...

Imagine, if you will, the Lakers not getting Pau Gasol...

No Gasol means Kobe is out...

Kobe out means Odom and Bynum as your first and second options...

This would, in turn, mean that you wouldn't be a laker fan right now... lmao

no i have been lakers fan since shaq left so you are wrong man I have been lakers fan since Kobe era started him as main man



and it's not luck haha, but that's your opinion then i respect that but i dont' think it is :cool:

also that year kobe and lakers did well without gasol, so it's all what ifs from there man kobe would have stayed I believed, but again it's what ifs

and with that what if
-what if kobe left and bynum become 30 15 guy next year as main guy, and win championship lol that would be the epic.

Supreme LA
03-24-2011, 03:31 AM
No, Lebron isn't the best. D-Wade is the best player on the Heat from a pure basketball perspective. Lebron is great at collecting stats but that has more to do with his size and athleticism than actual skill. Wade and Kobe are still better and I doubt anybody here could argue either of those guys ate better than Kobe fundamentally at any skill.

pnoyz15
03-24-2011, 06:11 AM
hey guys, i made an account but i've been readin this site for over a year.
My opinion is that LBJ is the best player in the league (based on the title) but he isn't the greatest leader in the league. That would have to go to either wade or kobe, but for now, kobe. :D
I'm basing this on how, when the Lakers got Pau, he was able to play with Kobe and get into the system right away. Was it because of Pau's attitude? probably but it takes two to tango right? also i like how kobe vocally screams at his team mates or gets them ready after a big/embarrassing loss. With Kobe you can see his passion. Sure he'll have off nights on scoring but he makes up for it in different ways. He'll push his team mates and try to lead by example. He also does dumb things at times like revert to "me" basketball but in the end, he tries to improve the team. Albeit he has fish, but he is the man of the team, the superstar and he steps up (most of the time) when needed.

LBJ, he is a great BBall player and a beast on the floor but until he steps it up and actually leads the team, not carry, but lead a team, he can't be better than Kobe. Think about it like sales teams. You have one massive seller that sells a lot and makes the team number 1 in numbers. But are they really number one? are the team mates motivated? or are they riding that one great seller. Kobe wasn't always the leader he is now but if we are talking about the present, then Kobe is the better leader. It took a couple of years for him to evolve the way he is now. Maybe LBJ will too. :D

Cano4prez
03-24-2011, 06:22 AM
No, Lebron isn't the best. D-Wade is the best player on the Heat from a pure basketball perspective. Lebron is great at collecting stats but that has more to do with his size and athleticism than actual skill. Wade and Kobe are still better and I doubt anybody here could argue either of those guys ate better than Kobe fundamentally at any skill.

Lebron is a better shooter, defender, passer, and he rebounds better

KingPosey
03-24-2011, 06:35 AM
I have no dislike for Lebron at all but I've watched a lot of Heat games where I've actually walked away much more impressed with D Wade than him. From a stat perspective and sheer athleticism and ability Lebron is the man but if I had to choose between the two I'd take D Wade. Better defender, more reliable shooter and closer IMO.

Completely agree. Wade is amazing.

LBJ is awesome,has an amazing skill set. But **** all he does pound the basketball each possession. Dribble dribble dribble dribble. Ok better do something wih it now.

Supreme LA
03-24-2011, 07:28 AM
Lebron is a better shooter, defender, passer, and he rebounds better

Lebron is a better shooter?? From where?? You mean lay-ups and dunks right???

Kobe is the better shooter (midrange & 3), better ballhandler, better footwork, better postgame (low & high), better leader, better ball IQ, better defender (Lebron admitted himself and so has Wade), better heart, better competitive drive, better touch in the paint, better floater, and better winner.

Arch Stanton
03-24-2011, 07:40 AM
the guy I was talking to tried to make it seem like the Cavs cakewalked to the Finals that year, I was proving him wrong...

Again you're putting words in my mouth. Try reading my posts before responding. You just continue to make yourself sound like a lummox.

Schmiggy
03-24-2011, 07:43 AM
I think a distinction between "most talented" and "best player" need to be made. Being a Bulls fan, I won't deny Lebron is the most talented. There is little debate in that regard.

However, that doesn't necessarily make him the best player. I think you can argue Kobe, Dirk, maybe Rose, but maybe not yet, could be as well. "Best player" to me entails team success, making your teammates better, having a strong drive to improve, etc.

There is a lot more to "best player" than just talent. Talent only gets you so far.

12to85
03-24-2011, 07:45 AM
Regular season Lebron > all other players
Post season Kobe > Lebron

Give me a champion any day over razzle and dazzle

Arch Stanton
03-24-2011, 07:48 AM
ur not understading what I was saying. I was saying it wasnt an easy road to the Finals because THEY were soooo weak. They played weak teams, but it wasnt easy for them because THEY were weak...... :facepalm: No my arguement to you is it wasnt easy for them. Would it have been easy for Detroit that year?? Hell yes, they would have went 8-0 and breezed to the ECF if they played Washington and NJ. Cleveland on the other hand would not because without Lebron, they were weaker than most teams in the EC, if not the weakest........... Even this year, they go from 66 to 15 (projected)........ Lebron makes all the difference. This year you can say they lost Shaq, West, Z, and Mo as well, but even if. Mo played for them until the deadline, Shaq has been injured like all year. But even if you add their WS to Cleveland's win total. All 4 of their WS combined equal to 6.2 (I only added Mo's WS since joining LAC, he had negative WS in Cleveland..) Add 6 wins they are still 19-51 and projected 22 wins..... That is still a 60 loss season... Mike Brown's system was not that good or they would have not fired him, or he would have another job by now and it wasnt as much the other players they lost....

They won 50 games. And the Eastern conference was super weak. Weaker than it is now. COMPARED TO OTHER TEAMS ROADS TO THE FINALS(historically), this was one of the weaker. I get that it wasn't easy for them. And I never said they cake walked. But it still doesn't negate the fact that it was still one of the easier roads.
Like I said if LeBron's team was in the Western conference he wouldn't of made it passed the second round. FOCUS!

Arch Stanton
03-24-2011, 07:56 AM
ur not understading what I was saying. I was saying it wasnt an easy road to the Finals because THEY were soooo weak. They played weak teams, but it wasnt easy for them because THEY were weak...... :facepalm: No my arguement to you is it wasnt easy for them. Would it have been easy for Detroit that year?? Hell yes, they would have went 8-0 and breezed to the ECF if they played Washington and NJ. Cleveland on the other hand would not because without Lebron, they were weaker than most teams in the EC, if not the weakest........... Even this year, they go from 66 to 15 (projected)........ Lebron makes all the difference. This year you can say they lost Shaq, West, Z, and Mo as well, but even if. Mo played for them until the deadline, Shaq has been injured like all year. But even if you add their WS to Cleveland's win total. All 4 of their WS combined equal to 6.2 (I only added Mo's WS since joining LAC, he had negative WS in Cleveland..) Add 6 wins they are still 19-51 and projected 22 wins..... That is still a 60 loss season... Mike Brown's system was not that good or they would have not fired him, or he would have another job by now and it wasnt as much the other players they lost....

Yeah that Cavs team just sucked around LeBron. That's why the Cavs the previous 2 seasons had more wins than Miami did this year. And now LeBron plays with D. Wade and Bosh.

Arch Stanton
03-24-2011, 08:16 AM
Were also talking about Hypothetical situations. Last year Shaq wasn't injured as much. Mo, and Z played better. Varejao wasn't injured, had the best +/- diff in the league, Boobie wasn't injured and didn't miss 20 games. They also had Delonte who was the second best player on the 08-09 playoff run for the Cavs.

ldawg
03-24-2011, 08:27 AM
Nah i don't think lebron is the best player in the NBA but you can make an argument depends on you perception on what it takes to be the best. From a skill stand point Lebron is behind Kobe, Wade, Durant and Rose. On the other hand While Wade and Rose are very quick they don't have Lebron size so they are limited to playing the 1 and 2. Lebron size and athleticism give him the clear cut advantage over Kobe, Wade, Durant and Rose being able to play 1 thru 4 and out muscle his man. To be honest you can win with either one of these players with the right players around them. Lebron is not the smartest or the most skill player so he can be exploit but he makes up for it in size and athleticism. Like Shaq did Lebron gets away with offensive fouls being overly physical going to the rim invading other players space on the floor. Remove the star calls and call the game correct and that hurts Lebron stock his other options become limited. Its no question why he was unable to finish the deal on Cavs this was on full display over the past few weeks and why the decision to join Wade the more polished, smarter, skilled player.

Shmontaine
03-24-2011, 08:30 AM
lol.... /thread... even when LBJ loses, i guess he still wins... that must make him a champ already...

BALLER R
03-24-2011, 08:34 AM
when it comes to the topic of who's the best player your can't always look at stats, theres more to it. with lebron a lot of times i feel hes just stuffing his stat sheet, he seems like a guy that cares more about his stats than winning. disagree or agree doesn't matter im just saying thats my perspective on it

bagwell368
03-24-2011, 08:35 AM
A guy has to take the crown. So far my most lasting image of Lebron is quitting against the Celtics last year. He claimed they would win 8 titles in Miami. He has succeeded in making Miami the black hat team, but James wants to be loved by everyone, not sure that was at all the right move. Wade is a better finisher, Lebron has to give up some of his scoring to facilitate the other big 2, but has he? And has he done it enough?

Magic, Bird, Jordan, and others of the all time greats wouldn't have spit the bit like James. James is a Coach killer, and a guy of immense talent that doesn't have a father/coach figure he looks up to, nor has he figured out how to internalize that AND lead.

Come back and ask the question when he leaves Kobe lying in a heap and is holding the trophy. Before that he has to leave Rose and KG in a heap. Certainly not going to happen this year. James has about 6 years to do it, or he may end up claiming Wilt's title (rightly or wrongly held) as the greatest waste in NBA history.

Hawkeye15
03-24-2011, 08:47 AM
I would have thought this was obvious by now. But there are still those who reward stars for their roster support, so whatever.

LeBron
Dwight
Wade
Kobe
Durant
Dirk
Paul

everyone else

Double_R
03-24-2011, 08:53 AM
dwight howard is right there with LBj as the best player in the league i dont really care if you disagree

dwight maybe the best or 2nd best player behind lebron in the whole league

dwight has the 2nd highest PER...we all know dominant of a defender dwight is and he is accounted for 12.6 win shares this season...lebron has accounted for 12.9 win shares

Click here For Comparison (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=bryanko01&y1=2011&p2=jamesle01&y2=2011&p3=howardw01&y3=2011&p4=rosede01&y4=2011)

dwight has been playing incredible basketball this year hes improved his offense significantly and dwight doesnt have another all star caliber player on his team compared to rose/kobe/lebron

I agree with this... I don't think that there is another player that has the impact on both sides and the opponents game plan more than DH.

JordansBulls
03-24-2011, 08:57 AM
I just read the Greg Anthony said that in a few years D.Rose will be the best player in the league. I like D.Rose and I think he is the best scoring PG in the game today and has a chance to be the best PG in the league and might even be right now. We have to just judge the player and take what you think about a guy and take out the hate and bias you have for a player and think, LeBron is the best basketball player in this league and hes got that spot on lock for a while. He is never going to be Jordan or Kobe but you cant tell me now or in a few years Rose,Durant,Howard,Griffin,etc. are better than James. He has his some deficiencies but the things this guy can do no one else in this league can do on a night to night basis. The guy is still averaging 26 7 and 7 if he was in Cleveland this year with those numbers him and Rose would be head to head in the MVP race.

You can easily make a case for Dwight over Lebron as well. He did beat him with an inferior team in 2009 when the Cavs had the best record in the league and HCA.

ldawg
03-24-2011, 09:19 AM
Lebron is the games best stat padder and coach killer. Ever since this dude pick up a basket ball he was market and referee like the best player to ever play the game. Pay-per-view games to see wonder boy. Its no wonder many feel this way to this day it was program in his head and yours. snap out of it, there is more to basketball than running over people.

Flash3
03-24-2011, 09:37 AM
Nah i don't think lebron is the best player in the NBA but you can make an argument depends on you perception on what it takes to be the best. From a skill stand point Lebron is behind Kobe, Wade, Durant and Rose. On the other hand While Wade and Rose are very quick they don't have Lebron size so they are limited to playing the 1 and 2. Lebron size and athleticism give him the clear cut advantage over Kobe, Wade, Durant and Rose being able to play 1 thru 4 and out muscle his man. To be honest you can win with either one of these players with the right players around them. Lebron is not the smartest or the most skill player so he can be exploit but he makes up for it in size and athleticism. Like Shaq did Lebron gets away with offensive fouls being overly physical going to the rim invading other players space on the floor. Remove the star calls and call the game correct and that hurts Lebron stock his other options become limited. Its no question why he was unable to finish the deal on Cavs this was on full display over the past few weeks and why the decision to join Wade the more polished, smarter, skilled player.

you don't know a thing about lebron...... oh lawd

12to85
03-24-2011, 10:16 AM
you don't know a thing about lebron...... oh lawd

stop hating so much. That was a legit post. I suppose you know everything about Lebron because you are a cousin of the nephew that has an uncle that is the babies daddy of a guy who got an autograph from Lebron ya da da da da da...

Flash3
03-24-2011, 10:21 AM
stop hating so much. That was a legit post. I suppose you know everything about Lebron because you are a cousin of the nephew that has an uncle that is the babies daddy of a guy who got an autograph from Lebron ya da da da da da...

you must be one of those people who think he's all about dunks and layups and doesn't have any other skill, and if you think lebron has low basketball iq then all i can suggest is watching his games.

ChitownSports16
03-24-2011, 10:21 AM
I have no dislike for Lebron at all but I've watched a lot of Heat games where I've actually walked away much more impressed with D Wade than him. From a stat perspective and sheer athleticism and ability Lebron is the man but if I had to choose between the two I'd take D Wade. Better defender, more reliable shooter and closer IMO.

This

FadeAwayLikeMJ
03-24-2011, 10:27 AM
my opinion is that he has the most overall talent.

he just needs a great coach to straghten him out.

mikealike305
03-24-2011, 10:28 AM
TBH ive always thought Wade was the best player in the world and Lebron 2nd

mikealike305
03-24-2011, 10:29 AM
with that said i think lebron WILL get better and take his game to another level

ldawg
03-24-2011, 10:33 AM
Wade is a beast when he wants to be

12to85
03-24-2011, 10:34 AM
you must be one of those people who think he's all about dunks and layups and doesn't have any other skill, and if you think lebron has low basketball iq then all i can suggest is watching his games.

Actually I never gave my opinion at all. I was just saying that the other guys comment was a decent post and for you to reply with "you dont even know Lebron" is a little immature. But hey since you have your little heat icon and avatar or whatever I guess you are the homer that worships him and knows everything about him. Congrats homer

Double_R
03-24-2011, 10:44 AM
Kobe is the most talented because he is by far the most articulate shooter I have ever seen. He hits more difficult jumpers than most of the top guys combined. Yea Lebron is a powerful and fast, athletic freak, but is what he tends to rely on, not grace and style.

ldawg
03-24-2011, 10:45 AM
my opinion is that he has the most overall talent.

he just needs a great coach to straghten him out.I agree with this. He was the golden child and his swagg reflex that. He has the overall talent to be the best that ever played but i think he hurt that in this situation. Now its more of a what if. As of right now he has not unlock his potential and i don't think he can unlock it without hurting this heat team. Skill wise right now he is not the best his game still has many holes.

Tarheels23
03-24-2011, 10:47 AM
Cmon, Kobe is still the best player in the NBA.

LeBron, however, will be the best player in the NBA for years when Kobe retires.

alucard1122
03-24-2011, 10:47 AM
IMO LBJ is best bball player in the nba.. he's avg 26 pts and 7/7.. in a team with wade and bosh.. think about it!

ldawg
03-24-2011, 10:48 AM
Kobe is the most talented because he is by far the most articulate shooter I have ever seen. He hits more difficult jumpers than most of the top guys combined. Yea Lebron is a powerful and fast, athletic freak, but is what he tends to rely on, not grace and style.Kobe hit some big shots but Wade did some crazy shots to.

dwadefan03
03-24-2011, 10:52 AM
i would argue that wade is better than lebron...but its debateable

ldawg
03-24-2011, 10:53 AM
IMO LBJ is best bball player in the nba.. he's avg 26 pts and 7/7.. in a team with wade and bosh.. think about it!Its called stat padding. Miami offense is called i get mine you get yours. They are playing little games within a game making sure they all stay on track of their career averages. It might or might not come back and haunt them in the playoffs. But it has sure make them a less consistent team. I'll bet it has hurt their chemistry. Teams have no idea what line up Miami will come with and i am not sure Mimi do't know either.

Flash3
03-24-2011, 11:21 AM
@ldawg

do you actually think lebron isn't skillful ? watching him i can tell he is just as skilled as dwade and I'm a wade homer.

his basketball iq is really high i don't know why you think he's dumb or something well maybe in real life he is judging by some of his actions but on the court his iq is really through the roof.

KnicksorBust
03-24-2011, 11:26 AM
Best bball player in the NBA unless there are 2 minutes left in the game.

Mile High Champ
03-24-2011, 11:37 AM
Best bball player in the NBA unless there are 2 minutes left in the game.

haha it's funny because it is true.. Lebron yes is simply incredible but he has to learn to deliver in the clutch at some point.

ldawg
03-24-2011, 11:39 AM
@ldawg

do you actually think lebron isn't skillful ? watching him i can tell he is just as skilled as dwade and I'm a wade homer.

his basketball iq is really high i don't know why you think he's dumb or something well maybe in real life he is judging by some of his actions but on the court his iq is really through the roof.He has skills but not as skilled as some of the other players mentioned. I do think he relies a bit on his speed and athletic ability off the dribble to get to the basket. With his size and strength he should punish people in the post with series of moves but he is not good in the post. In a slower paced game he tends to be a bit predictable and you can set him up. So i don't give him clear cut best player but it can be argued.

Flash3
03-24-2011, 11:48 AM
He has skills but not as skilled as some of the other players mentioned. I do think he relies a bit on his speed and athletic ability off the dribble to get to the basket. With his size and strength he should punish people in the post with series of moves but he is not good in the post. In a slower paced game he tends to be a bit predictable and you can set him up. So i don't give him clear cut best player but it can be argued.

the thing that annoys me about lebron is he is actually good in the post... wing defenders usually arent good post defenders aswell but he still doesnt take advantage of this i think most of his deficiency is mental i don't know if he gets bored or what but i have seen glimpses this season where he abused guys in the post. he does need to put it together though i agree with that.

allSUAVE
03-24-2011, 11:49 AM
As long as Lebron James ,Kobe bryant and Wade is in this league don't see that happenig he's behind those guys. Drose is a more athletic Allen Iverson to me.

ldawg
03-24-2011, 11:59 AM
my dream team don't include Lebron but that does not mean he aint the best. He can make the team easy.

sep11ie
03-24-2011, 12:03 PM
Hello can of worms, you have been opened!

SoxBearsBulls!
03-24-2011, 12:25 PM
I'll still take Kobe in a playoffs series over LeBron.

KnIckNy212
03-24-2011, 12:43 PM
This has turned into Kobe vs. LeBron :facepalm::facepalm:

theheatles
03-24-2011, 01:08 PM
Best bball player in the NBA unless there are 2 minutes left in the game.

LeBron is the best player in the world for the 1st 47 min and 50 secs, not that he's the worst player in the nba after that but not top 5 obv....this coming from 1 of the most pro LeBron ppl you'll come across

Cano4prez
03-24-2011, 02:17 PM
Lebron is a better shooter?? From where?? You mean lay-ups and dunks right???

Kobe is the better shooter (midrange & 3), better ballhandler, better footwork, better postgame (low & high), better leader, better ball IQ, better defender (Lebron admitted himself and so has Wade), better heart, better competitive drive, better touch in the paint, better floater, and better winner.

Congrats on being ignorant.



Durant is shooting 40.5% on jumpers from 10-23 feet, on 9.2 attempts (wow!) per game. He is assisted on 59.1% of them

Kobe is shooting 42.5% on jumpers from 10-23 feet, on 8.9 attempts per game. He is assisted on 28% of them

Martin is shooting 35.5% on jumpers from 10-23 feet, on 5.1 attempts per game. He is assisted on 46% of them

Lebron is shooting 43.6% on jumpers from 10-23 feet, on 7.2 attempts per game. He is assisted on 20.1% of them

Anthony is shooting 40.3% on jumpers from 10-23 feet, on 8.0 attempts per game. He is assisted on 35.7% of them

Rose is shooting 39.4% on jumpers from 10-23 feet, on 6.8 attempts per game. He is assisted on 15.6% of them

Wade is shooting 38.8% on jumpers from 10-23 feet, on 5.6 attempts per game. He is assisted on 28.5% of them

Granger is shooting 33.7% on jumpers from 10-23 feet, on 5.4 attempts per game. He is assisted on 36.6% of them

Just to show in comparison to other "star' players. He also shoots the 3 better than Kobe. Not to mention LeBron is better defender to Kobe and it's not close

magic0320
03-24-2011, 02:30 PM
Congrats on being ignorant.




Just to show in comparison to other "star' players. He also shoots the 3 better than Kobe. Not to mention LeBron is better defender to Kobe and it's not close

the thing about LeBron is that he can't make those shots when game is close, if you are fan you should have noticed.

and one or two game don't count :rolleyes:

d00d
03-24-2011, 02:34 PM
1. Why is this a thread?

2. Why did so many people reply?

This is a dead horse thread and there are 1000 more like it

mttwlsn16
03-24-2011, 02:35 PM
bron sucks

mttwlsn16
03-24-2011, 02:36 PM
1. Why is this a thread?

2. Why did so many people reply?

This is a dead horse thread and there are 1000 more like it

1. bc someone made it
2. why did YOU reply?

:horse:

Cano4prez
03-24-2011, 02:39 PM
the thing about LeBron is that he can't make those shots when game is close, if you are fan you should have noticed.

and one or two game don't count :rolleyes:

Wait so I proved you wrong, so you have to find more BS? :laugh2:


http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM

Hawkeye15
03-24-2011, 02:40 PM
the thing about LeBron is that he can't make those shots when game is close, if you are fan you should have noticed.

and one or two game don't count :rolleyes:

always an excuse, isn't there?

mikealike305
03-24-2011, 03:01 PM
in NBA 2K11 he is rated the best..... so....yeaaa


:)

Shmontaine
03-24-2011, 03:43 PM
Wait so I proved you wrong, so you have to find more BS? :laugh2:


http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM

Last update: 04/16/2010

tr4shb0t
03-24-2011, 03:44 PM
Who was the last player matching these criteria to win it all?

1. Main guy on the team
2. Afraid to take big shots

Shmontaine
03-24-2011, 03:48 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/641258-derrick-rose-kobe-bryant-and-the-ten-most-clutch-players-in-the-nba#page/1

footballer2369
03-24-2011, 03:52 PM
An Asia poster? How hard did the people at the frame store laugh when you brought that in?

Avenged
03-24-2011, 05:37 PM
Judging by the last few responses, this one has ran it's course.