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View Full Version : What player means the most to their franchise?



hotpotato1092
03-22-2011, 04:13 PM
This is not an MVP thread, this is an all things considered, which player means the most to their franchise from a basketball, financial, and fan standpoint thread. I would say the top three in some order is Kobe, Duncan and Nash. If I had to pick one I'd say Duncan. He is EVERYTHING to San Antonio, he is the one player in the league who could never be traded just because of how much he means he's done for them and how much he means to the fans.

JordansBulls
03-22-2011, 04:19 PM
This is not an MVP thread, this is an all things considered, which player means the most to their franchise from a basketball, financial, and fan standpoint thread. I would say the top three in some order is Kobe, Duncan and Nash. If I had to pick one I'd say Duncan. He is EVERYTHING to San Antonio, he is the one player in the league who could never be traded just because of how much he means he's done for them and how much he means to the fans.

Basically if you take that player off the team would they still sell out games? Lakers have always sold out games, so whether Kobe is there or not they will continue to do so. Bulls since MJ have always sold out games even the years in 2000, and 2001 when we were 15-67 and 17-65. So it would have to be someone who if they werent' there there fans may not show up much. I'd say Dirk personally or maybe even Dwight.

stawka
03-22-2011, 04:29 PM
Kobe

Jewelz0376
03-22-2011, 04:34 PM
Kobe...He is the most popular nba player in the world...

bringinwood
03-22-2011, 04:37 PM
Kobe...He is the most popular nba player in the world...

Whether or not Kobe plays for the Lakers or the Croatian national team, the Lakers are still selling out every game because it's a status symbol to be at a Lakers game...

I'd say Chris Paul or Dwight Howard...

Dwight was the only draw in Orlando for a long time and Paul pulled the Hornets through Hurricane Katrina...

Raph12
03-22-2011, 04:44 PM
Well looking at attendance/market prior to a player's arrival vs current... I'd have to say Dwight Howard and yes he is my fav player but that doesn't change anything.

The Magic have sold out every game this season and then some, if Dwight leaves, we won't last two seasons before falling off attendance/fan wise.

Hawkeye15
03-22-2011, 04:45 PM
Its Dwight for all sorts of reasons. Sales, tickets, merchandise, team actually being competitive, etc.

NYKalltheway
03-22-2011, 04:47 PM
Lebron - Cavs

oh wait

masalex1205
03-22-2011, 04:49 PM
Nash

haggis
03-22-2011, 04:52 PM
Whether or not Kobe plays for the Lakers or the Croatian national team, the Lakers are still selling out every game because it's a status symbol to be at a Lakers game...

I'd say Chris Paul or Dwight Howard...

Dwight was the only draw in Orlando for a long time and Paul pulled the Hornets through Hurricane Katrina...

^this

take "big market" teams out of the equation (ie. Rose, Kobe, Melo, etc.) those games sell out no matter what.

Bullsfan22
03-22-2011, 04:53 PM
Well looking at attendance/market prior to a player's arrival vs current... I'd have to say Dwight Howard and yes he is my fav player but that doesn't change anything.

The Magic have sold out every game this season and then some, if Dwight leaves, we won't last two seasons before falling off attendance/fan wise.

I knew you'd be the first to answer with howard. As much I want to call you a homer and your just saying it because he's your favorite player I can't. He is the Orlando Magics. The team is constructed pretty well around him on the offensive end but on the defensive in the rest of the roster is a complete ****ing joke besides jameer.

Raph12
03-22-2011, 04:59 PM
I knew you'd be the first to answer with howard. As much I want to call you a homer and your just saying it because he's your favorite player I can't. He is the Orlando Magics. The team is constructed pretty well around him on the offensive end but on the defensive in the rest of the roster is a complete ****ing joke besides jameer.

Jameer gets lit up by just about every decent-good PG he plays against, the only avg defender on our team is QRich... And he rots on our bench.

Bullsfan22
03-22-2011, 05:12 PM
Jameer gets lit up by just about every decent-good PG he plays against, the only avg defender on our team is QRich... And he rots on our bench.

I don't care to look up that stats to debunk this and your opinion might hold weight until you prove it's not an opinion but from what I've seen throughout his career jameer is a respectable player on both ends of the floor.

Ebbs
03-22-2011, 05:14 PM
I don't want to be a homer. But what is Dallas without Dirk?

Baller1
03-22-2011, 05:21 PM
Dwight, Rose, Durant, Kobe, Duncan... No real surprises.

Raph12
03-22-2011, 05:22 PM
I don't care to look up that stats to debunk this and your opinion might hold weight until you prove it's not an opinion but from what I've seen throughout his career jameer is a respectable player on both ends of the floor.

Too lazy to look up the advanced stats, but here is a raw version: http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Scoring.jsp?league=00&season=22010&conf=OVERALL&position=5&splitType=100&splitScope=GAME&qualified=Y&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=vs Orlando

Look at the PG production vs the Magic this season, we have two of the weakest defenders at that position in Nelson and Arenas... Like I said, QRich is the only good defender left on this Magic team and he doesn't even get to play.

alencp3
03-22-2011, 06:06 PM
cp3

bringinwood
03-22-2011, 06:18 PM
cp3

This is the same direction i'm leaning towards...

You can't go wrong with Dwight but, CP3 is the Hornets...

From a basketball standpoint, Dwight is probably the better choice with the lack of quality centers, his dominance in the paint, and his age...

From an overall point standpoint, the Hornets wouldn't be in N.O without Paul... They wouldn't be a blip on the screen competitively speaking even if they were in N.O... Paul has done just as much for the Hornets as LeBron did for the Cavs...

Tony_Starks
03-22-2011, 06:27 PM
If your going strictly from a financial/fan standpoint is has to be Kobe. Not only for his team but the entire league actually. Kobe has fans in basically every arena they play in. Look at how many times you see Lakers on fan night on nbaTV.....

ManRam
03-22-2011, 06:41 PM
I don't care to look up that stats to debunk this and your opinion might hold weight until you prove it's not an opinion but from what I've seen throughout his career jameer is a respectable player on both ends of the floor.

Ask Raph, I'm as huge of a Jameer Nelson fan as there is possible. He's not a great defender. He's improved quite a bit recently, and doesn't get "lit up" as much, but there are a lot of PGs who give him fits. It is a complete mystery as to why Rose has struggled against him.

But I'd never consider Nelson an above average defender. He can hold his own against most guys because of his quickness and strength, but for the most part, most guys can get right past him. And again, I assure you there is no one on this site that likes him more than me.


I don't buy the Kobe argument. He hasn't been a huge marketing star. There have been far bigger successes. The Lakers will always be successful, with or without him. Someone will come along and replace him a few years after he's gone.

The Duncans, Pauls (even for reasons like Katrina- he basically is the only reason that team's still there), Howards etc. all honestly mean more to their franchises than Kobe does to LA. Kobe may be the bigger name and the bigger star, but that doesn't mean he is more invaluable to his team.

Bullsfan22
03-22-2011, 06:50 PM
Ask Raph, I'm as huge of a Jameer Nelson fan as there is possible. He's not a great defender. He's improved quite a bit recently, and doesn't get "lit up" as much, but there are a lot of PGs who give him fits. It is a complete mystery as to why Rose has struggled against him.

But I'd never consider Nelson an above average defender. He can hold his own against most guys because of his quickness and strength, but for the most part, most guys can get right past him. And again, I assure you there is no one on this site that likes him more than me.


I don't buy the Kobe argument. He hasn't been a huge marketing star. There have been far bigger successes. The Lakers will always be successful, with or without him. Someone will come along and replace him a few years after he's gone.

The Duncans, Pauls (even for reasons like Katrina- he basically is the only reason that team's still there), Howards etc. all honestly mean more to their franchises than Kobe does to LA. Kobe may be the bigger name and the bigger star, but that doesn't mean he is more invaluable to his team.

fair enough. I never said he was great or even good. I just always thought he was respectable. I haven't watch enough games/took the time to look at his stats to back up my opinion so I couldn't debate with any magic fan or you seeing the fact that he's one of your favorite players.

PrettyBoyJ
03-22-2011, 06:57 PM
Mostly Small market teams with big names stars.. Kevin Durant, Tim Duncan, Chris Paul those guys have a major effect on there teams attendance.. Where as the knicks, Lakers, Bulls would still sell out games with out there respective stars because of their market size..

5ass
03-22-2011, 07:04 PM
Ask Raph, I'm as huge of a Jameer Nelson fan as there is possible. He's not a great defender. He's improved quite a bit recently, and doesn't get "lit up" as much, but there are a lot of PGs who give him fits. It is a complete mystery as to why Rose has struggled against him.

But I'd never consider Nelson an above average defender. He can hold his own against most guys because of his quickness and strength, but for the most part, most guys can get right past him. And again, I assure you there is no one on this site that likes him more than me.


I don't buy the Kobe argument. He hasn't been a huge marketing star. There have been far bigger successes. The Lakers will always be successful, with or without him. Someone will come along and replace him a few years after he's gone.

The Duncans, Pauls (even for reasons like Katrina- he basically is the only reason that team's still there), Howards etc. all honestly mean more to their franchises than Kobe does to LA. Kobe may be the bigger name and the bigger star, but that doesn't mean he is more invaluable to his team.

not rlly a mystery manram.. its bcz rose loves to drive to the basket, but thats when he meets dwight howard

210Don
03-22-2011, 07:09 PM
when timmy goes down its like our world ends in san antonio.....

Jonathan2323
03-22-2011, 07:15 PM
Kobe

D Wade- won 1st championship in HEAT history and recruited LeBron and Bosh.

TheDiggler
03-22-2011, 07:21 PM
To be honest:

Blake Griffin could be. They will make him the new face. Nike will marketing him. And the Clippers are not even talked about, without him.

Rose is a name, too.

Duncan, maybe.

I'd say Dirk Nowitzki, too.

Kobe of course. But, his marketing value is going down.

Lebron James ? Marktingwise an important guy.

Such as Yao Ming was.

Hard to name just one. Because there is not a Jordan, that is marketing, peoples and bball-skill goat in one person for more than a decade.

ManRam
03-22-2011, 07:29 PM
not rlly a mystery manram.. its bcz rose loves to drive to the basket, but thats when he meets dwight howard

Fair enough. But there are PGs, like Rondo, who love to drive, and who aren't known for their shooting, who do much better against Nelson. The point is, a lot of PGs do well against Nelson.

It's not a huge mystery when Dwight's there, but Rose is Rose, so it's still a bit of one.

knightstemplar
03-22-2011, 07:34 PM
I don't want to be a homer. But what is Dallas without Dirk?

whats a goon to a goblin?

knightstemplar
03-22-2011, 07:35 PM
Lebron - Cavs

oh wait

:laugh:

Geargo Wallace
03-22-2011, 07:37 PM
LeBron still means everything to Cleveland.

zo#33
03-22-2011, 07:44 PM
Blake Griffin was the first that came in mind, but if you take everything into account its probably Dwight

PhillyFaninLA
03-22-2011, 08:05 PM
Boston - Pierce today (Rondo in a few years)
Chicago - Rose
Miami - Wade although I think Lebron is a better player this is Wade's team
Orlando - Dwight
Atlanta - Johnson
Philadelphia - Brand today (Holiday in the future) I say Brand because I read and article about how he's a club house leader and showing the young guys how to coduct themselves
New York - Billups, he may not be the star of the team but I think he could teach the young guys to be professionals and help whatever additions they have, he might be the key to them be really good
Indiana - Granger (but I wouldn't argue with anyone that said Collison)
Milwaukee - Jennings
Charlotte - Jackson
Detroit - Monroe
New Jersey - Deron
Toronto - Calderon
Washington - Wall
Cleveland - Davis maybe
San Antonio - Duncan
LA Lakers - Kobe
Dallas - Dirk
Oklahoma City - Durant
Denver - Felton maybe Gallinari
Portland - Aldridge
New Orleans - CP3
Memphis - Gasol maybe
Houston - Lowry
Phoenix - Nash
Utah - Favors
Golden State - Curry
LA Clippers - Blake
Sacramento - Cousins
Minnesota - Love

Kobes a Killer
03-22-2011, 08:25 PM
Chris Paul, Dwight, or Durant. Lakers are still selling out games without Kobe, Lakers are still a playoff team without Kobe

pastrecedes
03-22-2011, 08:28 PM
Nash

76erEaglePhils
03-22-2011, 08:56 PM
I can certainly tell you it isn't Carmelo with the way the knicks have been playing lately.

theheatles
03-22-2011, 09:53 PM
its dwight and durant and it's not even close, u have to keep in mind like the OP said, lakers, bulls, knicks, celtics all always sold out..orlando has bad fans and i'm unsure of ok city fans because they never had a team without durant, but with a blatant loser i feel fans wouldn't show...i think mark cuban will keep the mavs relevant even without dirk...chris paul is also someone to consider

theheatles
03-22-2011, 09:57 PM
Boston - Pierce today (Rondo in a few years)
Chicago - Rose
Miami - Wade although I think Lebron is a better player this is Wade's team
Orlando - Dwight
Atlanta - Johnson
Philadelphia - Brand today (Holiday in the future) I say Brand because I read and article about how he's a club house leader and showing the young guys how to coduct themselves
New York - Billups, he may not be the star of the team but I think he could teach the young guys to be professionals and help whatever additions they have, he might be the key to them be really good
Indiana - Granger (but I wouldn't argue with anyone that said Collison)
Milwaukee - Jennings
Charlotte - Jackson
Detroit - Monroe
New Jersey - Deron
Toronto - Calderon
Washington - Wall
Cleveland - Davis maybe
San Antonio - Duncan
LA Lakers - Kobe
Dallas - Dirk
Oklahoma City - Durant
Denver - Felton maybe Gallinari
Portland - Aldridge
New Orleans - CP3
Memphis - Gasol maybe
Houston - Lowry
Phoenix - Nash
Utah - Favors
Golden State - Curry
LA Clippers - Blake
Sacramento - Cousins
Minnesota - Love

i think u swung and missed on a few of those
memphis - rudy gay all day
denver -nene or ty lawson, felton doesn't even start
toronto -bargnani
knicks -amare

bmd1101
03-22-2011, 09:57 PM
I don't care to look up that stats to debunk this and your opinion might hold weight until you prove it's not an opinion but from what I've seen throughout his career jameer is a respectable player on both ends of the floor.

He's quite correct, his numbers are like a ****in yoyo every game. Theres a thread in the Magic forum with his box scores for the year.

PhillyFaninLA
03-22-2011, 10:08 PM
i think u swung and missed on a few of those
memphis - rudy gay all day
denver -nene or ty lawson, felton doesn't even start
toronto -bargnani
knicks -amare


Gay is ok for Memphis, I wasn't really sure who to pick. I was thinking Lawson when I put Felton. Toronto I just picked someone so either way I'm good.

I do not agree with Amare. He is a great player but I believe isn't a winner, I think both him and Melo are great players but they are selfish stat guys that don't make others better. Those type of guys don't win championships. Billups is a potential winner and capable of making players better, but Melo and Amare are great individual players....thats why T.O. and Moss don't have superbowls.

DubbyDubbs
03-22-2011, 10:32 PM
durant and dirk...

Hawkeye15
03-22-2011, 10:53 PM
when timmy goes down its like our world ends in san antonio.....

not with absolutely no other pro teams, and the best management in the NBA. The Spurs will be fine

Chi City23
03-22-2011, 11:06 PM
Duncan, Nash, Dirk, Durant, CP3, John Wall, Blake Griffin or Dwight.

godolphins
03-22-2011, 11:08 PM
Dwight Howard

mttwlsn16
03-22-2011, 11:15 PM
blake griffin brought a buzz to the clippers, they have huge crowds and ton of sellouts now bc of him. he may not be the #1 choice, but he should be up there

mttwlsn16
03-22-2011, 11:16 PM
I can certainly tell you it isn't Carmelo with the way the knicks have been playing lately.

:laugh: