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View Full Version : Is basketball IQ the Most Underrated Skill?



Car Ramrod
03-21-2011, 10:58 PM
I see alot of amazing talents in the NBA and there seems to be less and less that know what to do with it. Does one-on-one really win championships?

I think alot of these kids come up are so athletically gifted that they never truly learn how to play the game and believe they don't really need to learn how.

They are amazing basketball players but if you watch Ray Allen, Steve Nash, Kareem, MJ, Kobe, Duncan, Stockten etc... game tape there are so many little things they do that allow them to be major contributors late in their careers on relevant teams when some of the 'stars' of their generation have fallen off the map. eg. Iverson, Francis, McGrady, Carter, and list could go on.

Some will argue injuries but I argue they don't have the ability to adapt their game because their athletic ability was their game.

I believe basketball intelligence is becoming a lost art. Your thoughts?

What do you think its value is in winning championships?

xxcubs22xx
03-21-2011, 10:59 PM
I would say basketball IQ is more an intangible than a skill.

iced_earth4
03-21-2011, 11:09 PM
Ask Toney Douglass...

Tony_Starks
03-21-2011, 11:15 PM
Very valuable skill. For example after a trade think people use that "adjustment period" thing as an out because if you're really a smart player it doesn't take long to get it. These guys have been playing since they were kids. Yes there are different offenses to learn but at the end of the day basketball is basketball. Look at Gasol he came to LA without the aid of a training camp and supposedly the Triangle is supposed to be extremely hard to pick up at first and he fit right in like he'd been there for years......

FuriousJatt
03-21-2011, 11:37 PM
well you got to have some smarts, some iq in what you do... whatever your profession might be. these atheltes are no exception. anyone can do the basic, even a trained monkey can do that to some extent. you can even be good at it by practicing, but it takes some brain power to suck up all the knowledge your coaches and peers try to feed you and put it to use when your trying to make yourself better. i think basketball iq is what separates greats from good.

GREATNESS ONE
03-21-2011, 11:53 PM
for me it's one of the most important. Smarts, Heart and Will mixed with talent makes Hall of Fame.

Sandman
03-22-2011, 12:24 AM
According to Charles Barkley last night, good coaching and effort can only get you so far before superior talent takes over.

5ass
03-22-2011, 12:52 AM
tracy mcgrady has a high basketball IQ

Hawkeye15
03-22-2011, 01:10 AM
of course it is. Its why people continue to underrate players such as Kevin Love for example. He can't jump high, and can't break your ankles. Yet there he is, killing it.

IQ is a tool. The better one has, the more they compensate for not having elite "athletic" skills

Hellcrooner
03-22-2011, 01:27 AM
Dudes like Nash, Dirk or Pau are allstars just by their IQ alone.

If all those superphisical players that can jump over bulidings run tyresleslly and deffend like dogs of prey because of their super bodies HAD an IQ the aforementioned wouldnt be able to be even at the bottom of any roster.

But thats not the case.

NYKSpiritBomb
03-22-2011, 01:44 AM
thinkin about this watchin the fab 5 segment on ESPN, arguing to my friend how the pool of talent back then could PLAY the game in every aspect.

MalZee24
03-22-2011, 01:45 AM
Okay I'm dead serious when I say this. I'm not joking at all, but I've always thought Luke Walton had a high basketball IQ. That's the only reason why he's lasted in the league. He's a joke (by nba standards) in everything else and everyone makes fun of him. I make fun of him all the time, but I will admit that he has a pretty good basketball IQ. It's probably from Bill.

Hellcrooner
03-22-2011, 02:03 AM
Okay I'm dead serious when I say this. I'm not joking at all, but I've always thought Luke Walton had a high basketball IQ. That's the only reason why he's lasted in the league. He's a joke (by nba standards) in everything else and everyone makes fun of him. I make fun of him all the time, but I will admit that he has a pretty good basketball IQ. It's probably from Bill.

if injuries hadnt destroyed any kind of athleticism he had before he would have been a good sixth man on the lakers or a good starter somewhere.
But his body didnt hold up. i guess its in the genes.

rhino17
03-22-2011, 03:58 AM
no, its the most overrated "skill"

Storch
03-22-2011, 04:02 AM
no, its the most overrated "skill"

Yup. Luke Walton = 5 million dollar a year LOSER.

Niro
03-22-2011, 08:53 AM
yes

Sandman
03-22-2011, 12:45 PM
lol all the guys people mentioned in this thread are white

magichatnumber9
03-22-2011, 01:06 PM
Brian Scalabrine has a very high Basketball IQ. WHite MAmba

F()()TBALL
03-22-2011, 01:17 PM
I think that can be said about all sports really.

FuriousJatt
03-22-2011, 01:27 PM
Okay I'm dead serious when I say this. I'm not joking at all, but I've always thought Luke Walton had a high basketball IQ. That's the only reason why he's lasted in the league. He's a joke (by nba standards) in everything else and everyone makes fun of him. I make fun of him all the time, but I will admit that he has a pretty good basketball IQ. It's probably from Bill.

that is true. i remember when the lakers were playing the pistons in 2004 finals, shaq was so complimentary of waltons passing and playing abilities. not to mention the coaching staff is always so high on his ability to control the flow with the bench players. his contract and health are the only reason ppl are down on him.

Shareeb_omac2
03-22-2011, 01:48 PM
Basketball IQ is the reason why Jason Kidd is still a able to play. He's slowed down quite a bit and struggles to guard other PGs but he does every little thing possible on the court.

Afro
03-22-2011, 01:52 PM
lol all the guys people mentioned in this thread are white

lol all the guys named Sandman in this thread are illiterate

Double_R
03-22-2011, 01:58 PM
It's underrated sometimes, but some people seem to overrate certain players because they still perform at a high level and are not that athletic. Other times players who are extremely athletic have their IQ underrated because people say they rely on their athleticism.

Why is it that Kevin Love seems to get so much praise for having a bball IQ, but then why doesn't he have any defensive ability and why isn't he making anyone on the team better. I read this after writing it and I come off as someone who thinks that Love has no bball IQ, but I mean that most of the things he does comes from skills that he has practiced over and over, not IQ. He is great at positioning him self for rebounds, no doubt, but other than that I don't see it. People that come to mind that have a high bball iq are guys like Tim Duncan, Pau Gasol, Kobe, Steve Nash, Kevin Garnett, etc.

Lake_Show2416
03-22-2011, 02:00 PM
Kobe - BBall IQ = JR Smith

drama1386
03-22-2011, 02:11 PM
Kobe - BBall IQ = JR Smith

this.

twoearl
03-22-2011, 02:25 PM
Kobe - BBall IQ = JR Smith

This X 2!

twoearl
03-22-2011, 02:33 PM
I see alot of amazing talents in the NBA and there seems to be less and less that know what to do with it. Does one-on-one really win championships?

I think alot of these kids come up are so athletically gifted that they never truly learn how to play the game and believe they don't really need to learn how.

They are amazing basketball players but if you watch Ray Allen, Steve Nash, Kareem, MJ, Kobe, Duncan, Stockten etc... game tape there are so many little things they do that allow them to be major contributors late in their careers on relevant teams when some of the 'stars' of their generation have fallen off the map. eg. Iverson, Francis, McGrady, Carter, and list could go on.

Some will argue injuries but I argue they don't have the ability to adapt their game because their athletic ability was their game.

I believe basketball intelligence is becoming a lost art. Your thoughts?

What do you think its value is in winning championships?

Great thread! This is basically what seperates a good team from a great team. These young guns come in thinking they can just jump over people to score baskets. Such as Tyrus Thomas, Stromile Swift, Gerald Green, Marvin Williams, Darius Miles and the list goes on and on.

And GMs fall for it every year. Ty was picked number 4 i think in the draft and Marvin was picked number 2! LOL

Raph12
03-22-2011, 03:26 PM
Definitely... If Dwight had even half of the IQ Gasol has he'd easily be the best player in the league.

bringinwood
03-22-2011, 04:25 PM
Definitely... If Dwight had even half of the IQ Gasol has he'd easily be the best player in the league.


If Gasol played on the Magic, there wouldn't be much of a difference between that and his days with the Grizz....

Dwight on the Lakers with Kobe ???

Not one team would stop them....


Dwight has a very high basketball IQ... He is very intelligent...

Someone made the reference of " Kobe-Basketball IQ = JR Smith"...

Dwight - Basketball IQ= Kwame Brown...

SteveNash
03-22-2011, 05:04 PM
No, if anything it's overrated. I see a lot of players with allegedly high IQs make plenty of mistakes.

Chronz
03-22-2011, 07:43 PM
Hard to tell but your argument wasnt very convincing. Most of the players you listed had great IQ's, the players that age the best are those with great shooting, which is different than basketball IQ. To me basketball IQ is about knowing what to make of a situation on both ends. Like Tmac has a higher basketball IQ than Ray Allen, hes a far gifted playmaker who can run an offense but Ray has developed a game that may never be as dominant at its peak but can last much longer. Even then they need athletic ability to stay relevant.

AI and Francis were more dependent on their speed but it doesnt mean they lacked basketball IQ, it means they lacked in other areas. Lack of IQ doesnt apply to great players, show me a great player that became so without a supreme understanding of the game.

King P
03-22-2011, 08:16 PM
I agree

Oh, and Vince Carter had has a high basketball IQ. Anybody coached by the Legendary Dean Smith does not have a low IQ

Lake_Show2416
03-22-2011, 08:23 PM
If Gasol played on the Magic, there wouldn't be much of a difference between that and his days with the Grizz....

Dwight on the Lakers with Kobe ???

Not one team would stop them....


Dwight has a very high basketball IQ... He is very intelligent...

Someone made the reference of " Kobe-Basketball IQ = JR Smith"...

Dwight - Basketball IQ= Kwame Brown...

That is MEAN!!!! Dwight's athleticism alone would make him a better player then Kwame

Dwight - BBall IQ + BurgerKing Hands - Hops = Kwame Brown

Hellcrooner
03-22-2011, 09:18 PM
If Dwight had ANY Iq and Fundamentals he would be going after his 5ht or 6th Mvp and his 3rd or 4th Ring.

Lake_Show2416
03-22-2011, 10:21 PM
If Dwight had ANY Iq and Fundamentals he would be going after his 5ht or 6th Mvp and his 3rd or 4th Ring.

u cant be that good and not have any IQ and to win MVP's and especially titles, it isn't as easy as your portraying it to be

ldawg
03-23-2011, 12:04 AM
heah Luke Walton is the smartest player in the nba, i think he is the best

TheDiggler
03-23-2011, 09:04 AM
I don't think basketball IQ is the most underrated skill. It's definitely the most rare skill.

Team*Chicago
03-23-2011, 09:27 AM
No, all these team are trying to be like the Boston Celtics by taking the ball up the court without dribbling it so some time on the play clock and shot clock won't expire on them. Basketball IQ helped the Celtics win a championship.

Rentzias
03-23-2011, 10:04 AM
My 5-man high basketball IQ team: Worthy, Jabbar, Rambis, Horace Grant, Thurl Bailey.

KnicksorBust
03-23-2011, 11:03 AM
Hard to tell but your argument wasnt very convincing. Most of the players you listed had great IQ's, the players that age the best are those with great shooting, which is different than basketball IQ. To me basketball IQ is about knowing what to make of a situation on both ends. Like Tmac has a higher basketball IQ than Ray Allen, hes a far gifted playmaker who can run an offense but Ray has developed a game that may never be as dominant at its peak but can last much longer. Even then they need athletic ability to stay relevant.

AI and Francis were more dependent on their speed but it doesnt mean they lacked basketball IQ, it means they lacked in other areas. Lack of IQ doesnt apply to great players, show me a great player that became so without a supreme understanding of the game.

Serious Question: Would you say Dwight Howard has a supreme understanding of the game? I would argue that his biggest strengths are fundamentally instinctual.

Chronz
03-23-2011, 11:16 AM
Serious Question: Would you say Dwight Howard has a supreme understanding of the game? I would argue that his biggest strengths are fundamentally instinctual.
Whats the biggest difference athletically between him and DeAndre Jordan?

KnicksorBust
03-23-2011, 02:35 PM
Whats the biggest difference athletically between him and DeAndre Jordan?

Relevance?

Chronz
03-23-2011, 02:45 PM
Well what do you mean instinctual? Defense is something Howard has had to improve upon over the years, if its instinctual its because his basketball IQ on that end is tremendous.

Hellcrooner
03-23-2011, 04:15 PM
Well what do you mean instinctual? Defense is something Howard has had to improve upon over the years, if its instinctual its because his basketball IQ on that end is tremendous.

Remove some muscle and weight and Nope his Iq is not high at any of the ends.

bringinwood
03-23-2011, 05:24 PM
The hate on Dwight Howard, who hasn't had a scorer of any relevance on his team since he's broke in, is kind of disheartening...

If you look at the best defenders in basketball over the last 10 years, you won't find one that is a ****** basketball IQ wise...

The Kwame Brown analogy was pretty right on, IMO...

Kwame Brown was just as athletic coming out of high school as Dwight Howard...

The difference is that Kwame doesn't understand you have to down low and mix it up...

Dwight does...

Kwame doesn't understand that good defense is what makes a solid center, in this league, great...

Dwight does...

Dwight understands he has to make adjustments in his game and continue to improve because his competition is doing the same thing...

Kwame doesn't get that either...

A center, who is chosen in the first round, has the ability to be one of the better players in basketball before he ever laces up his shoes and gets on the court...

It's whether or not you have the capability to learn the NBA style that will get you far...

ewmania
03-23-2011, 05:33 PM
no, its the most overrated "skill"

only players and coaches with high basketball IQ's win rings

so no, its not overrated, its very underrated

KnicksorBust
03-23-2011, 06:16 PM
Well what do you mean instinctual? Defense is something Howard has had to improve upon over the years, if its instinctual its because his basketball IQ on that end is tremendous.

Rebounding and shotblocking are skills that some players do more naturally than others. This is why not every 7 footer gets 10 rebounds and 2 blocks per game and while others make it look easy. Brook Lopez won't suddenly start rebounding like Kevin Love just because he tries harder. Practice can improve these skills but there are ceilings. Dwight Howard started off with a much higher ceiling.

bringinwood
03-23-2011, 07:38 PM
Rebounding and shotblocking are skills that some players do more naturally than others. This is why not every 7 footer gets 10 rebounds and 2 blocks per game and while others make it look easy. Brook Lopez won't suddenly start rebounding like Kevin Love just because he tries harder. Practice can improve these skills but there are ceilings. Dwight Howard started off with a much higher ceiling.

So did Kwame Brown, Mike Olowakandi, and Darko Milicic

Chronz
03-23-2011, 11:29 PM
Remove some muscle and weight and Nope his Iq is not high at any of the ends.
You do that to any player and they struggle, hell remember when people were calling Pau soft and he was struggling to rebound consistently, he gained some mass and now hes become a capable post defender/rebounder.

Chronz
03-23-2011, 11:31 PM
Rebounding and shotblocking are skills that some players do more naturally than others. This is why not every 7 footer gets 10 rebounds and 2 blocks per game and while others make it look easy. Brook Lopez won't suddenly start rebounding like Kevin Love just because he tries harder. Practice can improve these skills but there are ceilings. Dwight Howard started off with a much higher ceiling.
So how is that not a part of his basketball IQ?

Chronz
03-23-2011, 11:31 PM
only players and coaches with high basketball IQ's win rings

so no, its not overrated, its very underrated

Antoine Walker?

Hellcrooner
03-23-2011, 11:55 PM
You do that to any player and they struggle, hell remember when people were calling Pau soft and he was struggling to rebound consistently, he gained some mass and now hes become a capable post defender/rebounder.

if Pau didnt have MASSIVE IQ and FUndamentals, not even at his current frame would he able to even get a 15th man on the roster place in the league.
Same for nash or Dirk.

Lakers + Giants
03-24-2011, 12:08 AM
Dwight-IQ=Mbenga not Kwame.

Raph12
03-24-2011, 12:19 AM
Dwight's defensive IQ is outstanding and since the Magic traded Gortat he's been very good with foul trouble, which had been his only flaw on that end this season... I meant on the offensive end; keeping the ball high on the catches, recognizing doubles earlier, etc... He's greatly improved on this as well, but still needs work.

Chronz
03-24-2011, 12:49 AM
if Pau didnt have MASSIVE IQ and FUndamentals, not even at his current frame would he able to even get a 15th man on the roster place in the league.
Same for nash or Dirk.
Doubtful but even then hes still 7ft with length, lots of players stay in the league due to size. If you took away his length and bulk I promise you he will suffer more, players dont stay in the league because of skill, well atleast not at the expense of athletic ability. Players skill levels increase over time but they are only relevant so long as they have the ability (talent) to achieve what their minds tell them to.


Besides you take away Dwights intellectual understanding of team defense, improved offensive repertoire and he becomes your below average stiff with height.

bringinwood
03-24-2011, 03:20 AM
Dwight-IQ=Mbenga not Kwame.

I guess the point I was trying to make was that Kwame Brown, Olowokandi, and Milicic had the potential of Dwight Howard...

They didn't perform to their potential because they didn't learn the league... Howard did and he's the best center in basketball because of it....

JayW_1023
03-24-2011, 04:07 AM
BB IQ is the difference between Andray Blatche and Blake Griffin in my opinion.