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d00d
03-21-2011, 10:53 AM
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/item_km93QltctZotOUPO7rWkfN


By MARC BERMAN

Last Updated: 10:26 AM, March 21, 2011

Posted: 12:56 AM, March 21, 2011

MILWAUKEE — The Knicks officially became a losing team with Carmelo Anthony yesterday — and they are getting worse, not better.

After another alarming loss — this one 100-95 to the Bucks, in which the Knicks got humiliated during a 32-9 first quarter at the Bradley Center — Anthony sounded worried that a magical playoff spring may not be in the offing because of chemistry issues.

The Knicks are 7-8 since the Melo blockbuster exactly one month ago, skidding from the sixth to seventh seed.

“For everybody to get 100 percent on the same page, it might take until next season,” Anthony said.

That marked the first time Anthony, struggling to fit in, has cast doubt that this transition could doom the Knicks’ playoff fate.

The Knicks, who have lost five of six games, host the Celtics tonight — and Boston is a team the Knicks may have to face in the first round in three weeks. The Knicks trail the sixth-place Sixers by one-half game.

Chauncey Billups, the other major piece in the mega-deal, also expressed concern the Knicks have a long way to go.

“We’re a ways from where we need to be,” said Billups, who scored 21 points and led a second-quarter comeback, but fouled out with 2:46 left.

“We have got a ways to go on both ends, getting familiar.”

But Billups added, “Nobody is pressing or going crazy. We understand the process. We’re not stressing and depressing.”

Noting the Knicks’ rally from a 23-point first-quarter hole, Billups said, “I think if we play that hard the entire game, we’ll start to get a really good basketball team.”

Until then, the Knicks (35-34) are mediocre, and can drop to .500 with a loss to the Celtics.

Coming off his six-point, 2-of-12 Detroit disaster, Anthony recovered to score 23 points on 7-of-14 shooting, making 7 of 8 free throws. But he was poor defensively, as Carlos Delfino busted out for 30 points, including the clinching trey over a late-closing Melo with 1:40 left, putting Milwaukee (28-41) ahead 91-84.

“We’re almost there, but right now in this short period of time, we got to come together as a unit as far as everybody jelling and clicking,” said Anthony. “It’s going to take some time.”

Former Knick star Latrell Sprewell, sitting courtside in his native city, watched the two Knicks stars struggle on both ends in the embarrassing first quarter. Amar’e Stoudemire shot just 11 of 28 for 25 points.

Sprewell was no stranger to controversy during his Knick stint, but he also won plenty here, too. The Knicks cut the deficit to one point late in the third, but never took the lead.

“We dug ourselves too deep of a hole,” said Stoudemire, who looked exasperated during a first-quarter timeout.

“We couldn’t get out of that 20-point deficit we started out with. Offensively, we couldn’t get anything going.”

The Knicks shot 16 percent (4 of 25) to set a season-low for points, and coach Mike D’Antoni’s odd decision to start Shelden Williams at center over Jared Jeffries backfired as the club fell behind 16-4 in his six-minute stint during which he was 0 for 2.

In fact, incredibly, all three Knicks who played center went scoreless, including Ronny Turiaf and Jeffries. Sixth Man Toney Douglas also regressed, going 3 of 13.

Center and a thin bench became the club’s two glaring post-trade weaknesses.

After Friday’s loss, Stoudemire said the club must “buy in to” D’Antoni’s move-the-ball system — a criticism at Melo.

All eyes were on Melo after his atrocious Detroit outing.

Anthony had a nicer persona on the court in Milwaukee. He cheered from the bench, slapped hands with teammates but still got a technical foul after a minor shoving match with Andrew Bogut – a sign of frustration.

And afterward, Melo still sounded challenged by D’Antoni’s system, even after a Saturday clear-the-air hotel meeting.

“My thing is to go out here and do what I have to do within the system,” Anthony said. “I never want guys to feel I’m going out of the system.”

Anthony heard his share of taunts. When he went to shoot free throws in the third quarter, some Bucks fans chanted “Sprewell’s better.”

To date, they are right. �

29$JerZ
03-21-2011, 11:00 AM
The trade was lopsided but its clear the lack of depth is hurting the team.

After Landry/Toney and Shawne Williams NY has no one else around Billups/Melo/Amar'e

TopsyTurvy
03-21-2011, 11:02 AM
Feer the m'fn deer:


Anthony heard his share of taunts. When he went to shoot free throws in the third quarter, some Bucks fans chanted “Sprewell’s better.”

There are some REAL NBA fans up there!!! Gotta love it.

nickdymez
03-21-2011, 11:30 AM
Its d'iantoni... He's a terrible coach. That style of play will never win a championship. (well his style of play). I say bring larry brown back to the knicks

oak2455
03-21-2011, 11:53 AM
Feer the m'fn deer:



There are some REAL NBA fans up there!!! Gotta love it.

Did they say "Choke the Coach" because hes a big part of the problem,that they are playing with a small team, and forgot no Defense:facepalm:

Evolution23
03-21-2011, 12:06 PM
This team is going to take time to gel together.

NYKnickFanatic
03-21-2011, 12:07 PM
Not surprised a Bulls fan posted this, but yeah, we are sucking it up right now. Ill just be happy if we make the playoffs.

Frezhnitz
03-21-2011, 12:07 PM
I knew it before the trade.

ttam68
03-21-2011, 12:20 PM
NY just loves overpaying overrated guys. Take away Marbury and Francis, add $45 mil of Amare and Melo.

effen5
03-21-2011, 12:22 PM
Not surprised a Bulls fan posted this, but yeah, we are sucking it up right now. Ill just be happy if we make the playoffs.

Who cares who posted it?

Avenged
03-21-2011, 12:33 PM
The posters who rely solely on stats will love this since they hate Melo.

The Knicks team with Melo/Amare/Billups still is capable of pulling of an upset in the playoffs. Definitely wont win it all, but an upset is possible.

oak2455
03-21-2011, 12:35 PM
NY just loves overpaying overrated guys. Take away Marbury and Francis, add $45 mil of Amare and Melo.

Elton Brand can you hear me:D

JordansBulls
03-21-2011, 12:37 PM
The posters who rely solely on stats will love this since they hate Melo.

The Knicks team with Melo/Amare/Billups still is capable of pulling of an upset in the playoffs. Definitely wont win it all, but an upset is possible.

This.

ttam68
03-21-2011, 12:42 PM
Elton Brand can you hear me:D

Haha.

Well fool me once, shame on you. Fool me repeatedly for a decade...

oak2455
03-21-2011, 12:49 PM
Haha.

Well fool me once, shame on you. Fool me repeatedly for a decade...

Sixers Moses Malone when was that?:speechless::p:p

GREATNESS ONE
03-21-2011, 01:05 PM
I would still make that trade for Melo.

Mcdoh
03-21-2011, 01:10 PM
i still think its a bad trade for knicks..

CostanzaNumba0
03-21-2011, 01:27 PM
this will all go away when arod says something stupid in the next month or so, ny's a baseball town..the knicks are what they are, an offensive team that can beat anyone on any given night, who also can lose to anyone on any given night

blahblahyoutoo
03-21-2011, 01:37 PM
The trade was lopsided but its clear the lack of depth is hurting the team.

After Landry/Toney and Shawne Williams NY has no one else around Billups/Melo/Amar'e

guess someone should've thought about it before making the trade.

shep33
03-21-2011, 01:47 PM
It's gonna take time, I still think this season is a success nonetheless. The trade was still one that you do 10 out of 10 times, they can sacrifice less than half a year to get Melo and then next season they can sign role players maybe get a new coach etc.

Dallas Tx4Life
03-21-2011, 01:52 PM
It should be titled Amare's losers if anything, because it's not Melo's team... Melo is the second best player on the Knicks.

dnewguy
03-21-2011, 01:53 PM
I dont know what will happen with the Knicks, I hope they figure things out. BTW, Melo has never been a difference maker, even in Denver.

dnewguy
03-21-2011, 01:55 PM
I would still make that trade for Melo.

Me too, I would have taken JR Smith and Nene from Denver and find a way to send Melo to the Nets and in the process keep either Felton or Galo.

Geargo Wallace
03-21-2011, 02:12 PM
It should be titled Amare's losers if anything, because it's not Melo's team... Melo is the second best player on the Knicks.

they're both big boys. i don't think you really need to label whose team it is.

Slimsim
03-21-2011, 02:17 PM
Melo not the problem He's even trying to play defense. It's obvious We suck on defense because if your not taught the right way you make stupid fouls. And since or Center is JJ it just makes it worse IDK. I think THis off season We need to find a new coaching staff. Someone that won't be afraid to challenge the Star players. Mike D Will never get on Amare or Melo for their faults

JayW_1023
03-21-2011, 02:19 PM
I would still make that trade for Melo.

I wouldn't. They are prolly the worst defensive team in the league...and no matter how much talent you assemble, if the pieces don't fit, you still STINK.

Billups is a point who is effective in half court, buit DÁntoni's offense is designed to score in transtition.

Amare and Melo are really similair players...both score facing up from the left or right box. They are scorers more so than all round players and not really great defensive players.

I've said it before this trade happened, that the Knicks would've been better off staying put. And the results speak for themselves.

kobebabe
03-21-2011, 02:46 PM
What pple need to understand is that this is a whole new team from what the NY started the season with. They had their chemistry going and all that was disrupted by the trade. It will take time for them to really gel again.
Having an offense minded couch doesn't help them either.
It is not a Melo's issue but an organization issue.

Evolution23
03-21-2011, 02:57 PM
NY just loves overpaying overrated guys. Take away Marbury and Francis, add $45 mil of Amare and Melo.

Since when were Marbury and Francis on the same level as Stat and Melo? :facepalm::facepalm:

ChiSox219
03-21-2011, 03:02 PM
Melo is a punk. At least the Knicks were fun to watch before the trade.

GREATNESS ONE
03-21-2011, 03:04 PM
I wouldn't. They are prolly the worst defensive team in the league...and no matter how much talent you assemble, if the pieces don't fit, you still STINK.

Billups is a point who is effective in half court, buit DÁntoni's offense is designed to score in transtition.

Amare and Melo are really similair players...both score facing up from the left or right box. They are scorers more so than all round players and not really great defensive players.

I've said it before this trade happened, that the Knicks would've been better off staying put. And the results speak for themselves.

The facts stay the same, The way I look at it there's 1 winner and 31 losers. The Knicks are not winning the NBA Title this year. Regardless of what pieces they got from the Nuggets. The have two solid pieces moving into the future to build around 2 top 15 players. I would take that all day to build around, all day.:)


This is a Big Market, expectations will be high and the money will be spent to win a title in the future. To me my friend, That's what it's all about. Championships.

More-Than-Most
03-21-2011, 03:21 PM
The facts stay the same, The way I look at it there's 1 winner and 31 losers. The Knicks are not winning the NBA Title this year. Regardless of what pieces they got from the Nuggets. The have two solid pieces moving into the future to build around 2 top 15 players. I would take that all day to build around, all day.:)


This is a Big Market, expectations will be high and the money will be spent to win a title in the future. To me my friend, That's what it's all about. Championships.

They have 2 pieces but those pieces both play 1 dimensional ball while being max paid. This is not a good set up for the knicks.


When this trade first happened I said I did not like it and would not do it if I were the knicks and I got laughed at. Now or next year or the year after wont matter if you have extremely over paid talent whom cant play defense. The knicks really made a mistake making this trade and they will regret it.

JayW_1023
03-21-2011, 03:24 PM
The facts stay the same, The way I look at it there's 1 winner and 31 losers. The Knicks are not winning the NBA Title this year. Regardless of what pieces they got from the Nuggets. The have two solid pieces moving into the future to build around 2 top 15 players. I would take that all day to build around, all day.:)


This is a Big Market, expectations will be high and the money will be spent to win a title in the future. To me my friend, That's what it's all about. Championships.

Amare and Melo are both already in their prime. If you look at the OKC Thunder or the Bulls, they have franchise cornerstones who have yet to hit their prime. The Heat have a more complete team and LeBron will prolly enterhis prime next season. The pressure to win now is enormous for the Knicks, because there are tons of teams with young talent who are already far more complete than the Knicks.

Given the fact the neither Melo nor STAT haven't had much success as the main guy on their team, and Billups will only be declining, I really don't see it happening. They need a different system alltogether to win a title, not just a defensive big or what not. They have the wrong coach, wrong system and players who just don't complement one another well.

GREATNESS ONE
03-21-2011, 03:32 PM
^^ ok I understand what both your guys points are but one question. If CP3 becomes a KNICK, doesn't that give them a shot too win the title? With a few more role pieces and the right coach in place?


Amare, is still one of the best Bigs in the East and should be for 2-3 more years. Melo's game is very good, great mid range game and I don't see him declining soon. The Knicks have a owner that spends and I do see this team fighting for titles in the future.

Car Ramrod
03-21-2011, 03:38 PM
Winners win. What has Melo won? What has Amare won?

Ball hogs will never win. Look at Denver since the trade. They haven't needed time to gel.

If there is a cap next year. The knicks along with a few other teams will be in big trouble.

Double_R
03-21-2011, 03:38 PM
I've said this before, Melo should take any and all blame for the Knicks not being a good team. All he had to do was play out this season with the Nuggets and then sign with the Knicks in the off season and then the Knicks would have been able to keep Felton, Gallo, Chandler, Moz. and they would have been an instant contender. Instead Melo had to sign this extension now, he didn't want to lose any money(obviously matters more than anything bball related) and that made the Knicks have to pay way too much, when they could have gotten him for free this offseason.

What annoys me most about this is that now Melo is saying that it will take til next year. Guy is a selfish, greedy chucker; but his greed did help the Nuggets.

JayW_1023
03-21-2011, 03:39 PM
^^ ok I understand what both your guys points are but one question. If CP3 becomes a KNICK, doesn't that give them a shot too win the title? With a few more role pieces and the right coach in place?


Amare, is still one of the best Bigs in the East and should be for 2-3 more years. Melo's game is very good, great mid range game and I don't see him declining soon. The Knicks have a owner that spends and I do see this team fighting for titles in the future.

It really depends...they need a stopper more than they need CP3 right now, because Paul doesn't solve their defensive issues. Get a legitimate defensive big alongside STAT and then we can start talking about the Knicks as contender.

STAT has made leaps and bounds to become a more complete player this year...but Melo needs to do the same.

Still the Knicks have too many ifs and buts, while Chicago and OKC have their foundation for the future set without having to overhaul. They will add pieces gradually and are already building chemistry. They are in a postion to to win titles alot sooner and also do in succession because of their youth. DRose, Durant and Westbrook are all still at the beginning of their careers and are all better than Melo and STAT already.

If all the stars align the Knicks may be lucky to win one title next 5 years...but my money is on OKC, Chicago and Miami to dominate for a long time next few years.

More-Than-Most
03-21-2011, 03:40 PM
^^ ok I understand what both your guys points are but one question. If CP3 becomes a KNICK, doesn't that give them a shot too win the title? With a few more role pieces and the right coach in place?


Amare, is still one of the best Bigs in the East and should be for 2-3 more years. Melo's game is very good, great mid range game and I don't see him declining soon. The Knicks have a owner that spends and I do see this team fighting for titles in the future.

No. The big 3 is a fail waiting to happen. Just look at the Heat and their big 3 would be Miles ahead of the knicks because their players can actually play both ends of the court. The Knicks would have their big 3 but would be in a much worse situation with a lack of bench depth because of the cap hits. The heat players took less while Melo/Stat so far have not. I am not a fan of the big 3 scenario for anyone and thinks it takes a ton of luck to pull of what the Celtics did.

Knicks maybe should have waited for Cp3 and just left melo alone. 2 superstars of Amare and Cp3 and then fill in the bench would have been a much better move.

GREATNESS ONE
03-21-2011, 03:44 PM
It really depends...they need a stopper more than they need CP3 right now, because Paul doesn't solve their defensive issues. Get a legitimate defensive big alongside STAT and then we can start talking about the Knicks as contender.

STAT has made leaps and bounds to become a more complete player this year...but Melo needs to do the same.

oh don't get me wrong they need a lot of pieces, a lot more size, pic and roll PG, more defensive minded role players and shooters. Not to mention a better coach, I do like Mike D, I just don't think his offense/no defense team will ever win.

For me though they got Melo and that's huge for them because I could've seen him signing a contract with NJ too. They will find a way to contend, that I'm almost sure of.

GREATNESS ONE
03-21-2011, 03:49 PM
No. The big 3 is a fail waiting to happen. Just look at the Heat and their big 3 would be Miles ahead of the knicks because their players can actually play both ends of the court. The Knicks would have their big 3 but would be in a much worse situation with a lack of bench depth because of the cap hits. The heat players took less while Melo/Stat so far have not. I am not a fan of the big 3 scenario for anyone and thinks it takes a ton of luck to pull of what the Celtics did.

Knicks maybe should have waited for Cp3 and just left melo alone. 2 superstars of Amare and Cp3 and then fill in the bench would have been a much better move.

:shrug: Maybe I was just spoiled watching

Magic, Kareem,Worthy
Jordan, Pippen,Grant
Jordan, Pippen,Rodman
Shaq, Kobe,Rice
Duncan, Manu,Parker
Garnett, Pierce,Allen
Kobe, Pau,Odom

Giaps
03-21-2011, 03:52 PM
Marc Berman is the most negative writer in New York so not a great source.

That being said they have not played well at all. But people are overreacting the same way they would be overreacting if they won 5 in a row.

Mudvayne91
03-21-2011, 03:52 PM
Me too, I would have taken JR Smith and Nene from Denver and find a way to send Melo to the Nets and in the process keep either Felton or Galo.

Maybe in a video game that'd work, but what makes you think Denver was willing to give up Melo, JR, and Nene while not receiving Felton or Gallo?

Mudvayne91
03-21-2011, 03:54 PM
Marc Berman is the most negative writer in New York so not a great source.

That being said they have not played well at all. But people are overreacting the same way they would be overreacting if they won 5 in a row.

Agreed. Everyone was burying the Heat because they lost 5 in a row or somewhere close to it. Then all of the sudden they just start destroying teams (including winning teams) and I'm sure they're one of the favorites again.

jim51990
03-21-2011, 04:02 PM
overrated

JayW_1023
03-21-2011, 04:06 PM
The Knicks window of opportunity is just too small with two stars already in their prime. You have LeBron hitting his prime in Miami next year...and like him or not, he will be the best player for at least a few more years. DRose is already scary (as in MVP) good on a Bulls squad playing already torrid defense. Russell Westbrook and Kevin Durant are not even 24 and already better than the Knicks two best players. Dwight Howard has yet to hit his prime. I'm pretty sure Kobe will not go away and leave the game quitely either. And god knows how good Blake Griffin will become.

The Knicks it will have to be the smoothest of sailing both on the market and on the hardwood. Just too many uncertainties. They need a new system, they need Melo and Amare to share the ball and unstick their fingers. They need some real defensive help, they need a great bench. They need to play hard every night with the competition they're going to face.

I'm not saying the Knicks won't win a title within the next two or three years...but given the circumstances, I JUST DON'T SEE IT HAPPENING. This team has too many what ifs.

DoMeFavors
03-21-2011, 04:11 PM
Carmelo Anthony left a better team to go to a bad defensive team that wouldnt make the playoffs in the West. He got what he wanted, he didnt want to win anything he just wanted his money.
I see Knicks for the next 5 years being a 7th seed and not making it past the first round. Bad Bad Bad Knick Management making a terrible terrible trade.

JayW_1023
03-21-2011, 04:13 PM
If The Knicks acquire Dwight Howard next offseason, I will change my mind though.

DoMeFavors
03-21-2011, 04:16 PM
If The Knicks acquire Dwight Howard next offseason, I will change my mind though.

Melo and Amare are like 45 million in cap and the cap will be lowered so its going to be hard signing Dwight unless he takes like 9 million a year.

TO to the CHI
03-21-2011, 04:24 PM
Winners win. What has Melo won?

A national championship.

TO to the CHI
03-21-2011, 04:26 PM
Melo and Amare are like 45 million in cap and the cap will be lowered so its going to be hard signing Dwight unless he takes like 9 million a year.

How can you be so wrong so often?

Those guys aren't close to $45 million next season (or the year after). And it is far from certain that the cap goes down. It is likely to be a harder cap (which will also hurt the Knicks), but it is unlikely to go down.

DoMeFavors
03-21-2011, 04:28 PM
How can you be so wrong so often?

Those guys aren't close to $45 million next season (or the year after). And it is far from certain that the cap goes down. It is likely to be a harder cap (which will also hurt the Knicks), but it is unlikely to go down.

Ummm? what? We are talking about Carmelo Anthony and Amare Stoudemire year right? We arent talking about Toney Douglas and Landry Fields...we are talking about 3 years 65 million Carmelo and 5 years 100 million Amare right??? RIGHT??? RIGHT???? :)

Giantwarrior
03-21-2011, 04:31 PM
Knicks are 7-8 since the trade. lol. they should have just waited until the off season to sign him.

ManRam
03-21-2011, 04:31 PM
Anyone thinking this was a contending team right away was just disillusioned honestly. Frankly, Melo, Amare and Chauncey (depending) are great franchise pieces. They have a long time to fill out the team around them. Like Miami, it's a process. This one is going to take a bit longer because it happened mid season and because it happened via a huge trade.

I just think it's a perfect example of a trade that created expectations that just didn't match up with what the reality was. That win verse Miami was honestly probably something that NYK fans didn't need. It helped perpetuate those unrealistic expectations.

But Melo and Amare are amazing building blocks. They just need better pieces around them. The future is amazingly bright. But you can't build a championship team overnight. And even if this team is worse than it was a month ago, that's not a bad thing at all. All that matters is that it's better suited for the future.

Dallas Tx4Life
03-21-2011, 04:31 PM
Carmelo Anthony left a better team to go to a bad defensive team that wouldnt make the playoffs in the West. He got what he wanted, he didnt want to win anything he just wanted his money.
I see Knicks for the next 5 years being a 7th seed and not making it past the first round. Bad Bad Bad Knick Management making a terrible terrible trade.

Great, great, great points... I got bashed for talking about how horrible I thought the trade was... It wasn't even about money, because he would have gotten that anywhere. It was about being in the biggest city in the world. He wants fame, not greatness. And that is sad... Yet people will still bash Lebron for making a move to win... :facepalm:

Wade>You
03-21-2011, 04:31 PM
Not surprised a Bulls fan posted this, but yeah, we are sucking it up right now. Ill just be happy if we make the playoffs.Me neither. I guess it should kinda be expected by now that the rival fan trolls will post all the news that craps on their rival team.

DoMeFavors
03-21-2011, 04:37 PM
Great, great, great points... I got bashed for talking about how horrible I thought the trade was... It wasn't even about money, because he would have gotten that anywhere. It was about being in the biggest city in the world. He wants fame, not greatness. And that is sad... Yet people will still bash Lebron for making a move to win... :facepalm:

Yup LeBron took less money to win, I think Denver fans should feel even more angry at Melo than the Cleveland fans with LeBron. Carmelo had a far better chance at winning in Denver than New York.

NYYCowboys
03-21-2011, 04:44 PM
Hopefully we can get a serviceable rookie in the draft to fit into the rotation, and try to somehow get some front court depth. It all depends on the CBA, but people will keep criticizing, but the Melo move was made for the future not the present.

HeaTxRipZz
03-21-2011, 04:54 PM
The Knicks window of opportunity is just too small with two stars already in their prime. You have LeBron hitting his prime in Miami next year...and like him or not, he will be the best player for at least a few more years. DRose is already scary (as in MVP) good on a Bulls squad playing already torrid defense. Russell Westbrook and Kevin Durant are not even 24 and already better than the Knicks two best players. Dwight Howard has yet to hit his prime. I'm pretty sure Kobe will not go away and leave the game quitely either. And god knows how good Blake Griffin will become.

The Knicks it will have to be the smoothest of sailing both on the market and on the hardwood. Just too many uncertainties. They need a new system, they need Melo and Amare to share the ball and unstick their fingers. They need some real defensive help, they need a great bench. They need to play hard every night with the competition they're going to face.

I'm not saying the Knicks won't win a title within the next two or three years...but given the circumstances, I JUST DON'T SEE IT HAPPENING. This team has too many what ifs.

Ehh Stat & Melo actually don't play too bad together. For guys who are still getting used to playing together they look pretty good and show good potential. Alot of what's being said from outside fans are assumptions because you guys don't watch this team night in and night out. With that said I will continue to stress that Defense and Roster Depth is the biggest issue.

D'antoni doesn't have good defensive schemes at all and definitely doesn't hold guys accountable and that is the problem. I watch every Bulls and Knicks game and I see the major problem. The effort is there even from Carmelo but you need a coach to dissect each team on film and show guys where they need to be and how lose/tight they need to guard their man. Also all the switch and help defense that Mike D thinks is good defense doesn't help. It constantly leaves a guy open.

As far as Stat and Melo not Meshing. Those guys constantly get their points besides from 1 bad game from Melo. Like I said I know with time they can play SO much better once they learn eachother's tendencies and where they like to shoot from.

Being that it's a major market team with 2 major stars everyone has this unrealistic expectation as far as accomplishments for the rest of this season. I don't recall anyone promising championships in NY this year but I always see outside fans mocking the team like it was done.

Kashmir13579
03-21-2011, 05:12 PM
The posters who rely solely on stats will love this since they hate Melo.

The Knicks team with Melo/Amare/Billups still is capable of pulling of an upset in the playoffs. Definitely wont win it all, but an upset is possible.


This.

i don't see it.

ttam68
03-21-2011, 05:27 PM
How can you be so wrong so often?

Those guys aren't close to $45 million next season (or the year after). And it is far from certain that the cap goes down. It is likely to be a harder cap (which will also hurt the Knicks), but it is unlikely to go down.


Ummm? what? We are talking about Carmelo Anthony and Amare Stoudemire year right? We arent talking about Toney Douglas and Landry Fields...we are talking about 3 years 65 million Carmelo and 5 years 100 million Amare right??? RIGHT??? RIGHT???? :)

http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/resources/10-11salaries.htm

They'll cost about $37 million next year and $39.5 million the following year. That still the large majority of the cap. And its much less likely the league adopts a hard cap than it is they lower it slightly more, though I doubt either happens.

Tony_Starks
03-21-2011, 05:37 PM
Did anyone seriously think Melo was the answer? Him and Amare are the same player, big time scorers who can explode on any given night but undisciplined and disinterested defenders.

But even still once they get Antoni out and change their philosophy they can still have a shot. But there's no way you can have you're two best players poor defenders AND a horrible defensive coach and expect to win.

xxplayerxx23
03-21-2011, 05:41 PM
Yup LeBron took less money to win, I think Denver fans should feel even more angry at Melo than the Cleveland fans with LeBron. Carmelo had a far better chance at winning in Denver than New York.

Ive seen maybe 10 posts where im not shaking my head at you. Go ask Clevland fans and denver fans, which team is more upset. They have a good young team In Denver, While clevland was left with nothing. But yeah your righht Denver fans should be furious for being a better team then they were before the trade

shizzle09
03-21-2011, 05:48 PM
this team has been completely changed in the middle of the season. If they're this bad next year at this time then maybe we should see headlines like this. People can hate all they want but bottom line is the Knicks have a future in place. Amare and Melo can be built around. The head coach is the first change needed. They need a defensive mindstate and need good defenders added in the off season.

Crackadalic
03-21-2011, 05:48 PM
Change the coach for a defensive coach. Get Jerome Jordan that we got from last years draft from overseas. A legit 7 footer. Is he the answer to our 5 spot? Who knows but he is better then 10lb Jered Jerfies playing center. When Mike learns to not use a 6'8 sf to guard the opposing teams bigs every freaking game we will win more games.

When we draft more bigs from the draft and maybe buy a pick will be better. Once all of that happens and we have a full training camp to get it together then we good. People gotta stop acting like the sky is falling. The Team has too many holes now. What did yall expect.

People need to stop talking about not making the trade. I bet Lebron or dwade would have ask for a trade if the season they become FA's is the year the cba expire so people need to chill for making melo look like the bad guy for wanting his money

We werent keeping chandler because he is a FA, felton was really sucking for almost 2 months and he expires in 2012, Gallo is replaceable and Mozzy isnt worth not trading for melo.

We have good pieces going forward and we can just build around them. I just want this team to play better as a team come playoff time and we'll see what happens

Da Knicks
03-21-2011, 05:58 PM
I would still make the trade, this trade is for the future of the team and Melo will be better than all the players who got traded. You dont always have to win it the first year ala isiah thomas, Donnie knows what he is doing.

Tony_Starks
03-21-2011, 06:06 PM
On the bright side Im just happy to see the Knicks actually back in the playoffs. With the past blunders over the years that in itself is a pretty dog-gone big deal!

NYtilIdie
03-21-2011, 06:19 PM
Psh. you shoulda seen how they treated Patrick in his Knick days.

D Roses Bulls
03-21-2011, 07:18 PM
Me neither. I guess it should kinda be expected by now that the rival fan trolls will post all the news that craps on their rival team.

somebody cry me a freaking river...... Jesus people will find anything to complain about.

nolafan33
03-21-2011, 07:21 PM
Why is it everytime a team with high expectations doesn't look so good it's ALWAYS the coach?

LA_Raiders
03-21-2011, 08:36 PM
They need more role players, and they need to play a lil D at least...

THE GIPPER
03-21-2011, 09:01 PM
They really need a center and a stronger bench. If they can get those two things in the offseason then look out.

EDIT: And probably a new coach too.

Car Ramrod
03-21-2011, 09:53 PM
I would love to see Billups go back to Denver. He is too good to be stuck in the drama that is going to unfold in New York.

evadatam5150
03-21-2011, 10:35 PM
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/item_km93QltctZotOUPO7rWkfN

Well that didn't take long.. I guess welcome to the Real New York Melo.. :clap:

John Walls Era
03-21-2011, 11:21 PM
Maybe they need to start using the "video game offense".

kblo247
03-21-2011, 11:25 PM
Maybe they need to start using the "video game offense".

Miami Heat ~ XBOX 360 Offense that unlocks achievements

or

Phil Jackson ~ PS3 Offense that unlocks trophies


???????

GodsSon
03-22-2011, 12:45 AM
It's simple, Melo is just overrated and always has been.

bulls_world23
03-22-2011, 12:49 AM
I hate D'antoni

BallIsAll
03-22-2011, 01:02 AM
SMH at knicks fans saying this trade was for the future when this trade actually crippled their future to an extent... even if CP3 decides to take a little less to join them they will only have 3 players and still wont have a legit center and on top of that they will have 3 point guards if they extend billups. COME ON this is your future stat & melo. I love melo especially since i have been watching him for years and if theres one thing ive learned about him is he is not good with another player who demands the ball and he will never consistently play defense. good luck tho..

John Walls Era
03-22-2011, 01:33 AM
Miami Heat ~ XBOX 360 Offense that unlocks achievements

or

Phil Jackson ~ PS3 Offense that unlocks trophies


???????

Touche. One of the better replies of all time.

jzero
03-22-2011, 01:34 AM
This team is going to take time to gel together.

shut up already with that
theres no point gelling if you cant play D

broncofangene
03-22-2011, 01:50 AM
Its ok though guys. LaLa lives in ny and has her own show now.

rabzouz 96
03-22-2011, 02:09 AM
dunno what everybody expected, but this has no center at all, just an undersized turiaf, and not many benchplayers, it was clear they wouldnt compete instantly

GREATNESS ONE
03-22-2011, 03:03 AM
Half of you guys are ridiculous and have no clue about Basketball.

ElMarroAfamado
03-22-2011, 03:07 AM
They can lose the rest of their games and probably still make the playoffs since its the sorry *** East haha ...and thats all they need...they will upset somebody they will not go down without a fight in the playoffs...

ElMarroAfamado
03-22-2011, 03:08 AM
Haha at people bashing the Knicks cause they are losing but praising them when they were winning. Heat fans are just scared and worried cause they know if they dont lose to the Knicks they will lose to someone else. The KNicks are not built to win a title yes, BUT neither are the Heat and I wouldnt be surprised if the Knicks get further in the playoffs than the Heat.

ElMarroAfamado
03-22-2011, 03:10 AM
Great, great, great points... I got bashed for talking about how horrible I thought the trade was... It wasn't even about money, because he would have gotten that anywhere. It was about being in the biggest city in the world. He wants fame, not greatness. And that is sad... Yet people will still bash Lebron for making a move to win... :facepalm:

Lebrick win what? Regular season accolades that he could have gotten with the Cavs? Because I know by "win" you dont mean a title. EVER.

JayW_1023
03-22-2011, 04:00 AM
It's obvious those Suns teams D'Antoni coached had success because of the brilliant basketball mind of Steve Nash.

DenButsu
03-22-2011, 08:35 AM
The posters who rely solely on stats will love this since they hate Melo.

Anybody who understands and promotes the value of using stats will tell you that it would be a mistake to solely rely on them, and knows full well that they don't tell the whole story. But stats are an extremely useful tool, and the people who dismess their value do so at the expense of their own knowledge of basketball.

Evolution23
03-22-2011, 09:38 AM
shut up already with that
theres no point gelling if you cant play D

dont make me get billups to **** on the heat again. and stop getting so mad. u miami people get so jealous for no reason.

JasonJohnHorn
03-22-2011, 09:38 AM
I absolutely LOVE New York's press! lol Melo's Losers? NY is one of very few buildings where you will hear your own players get booed. Tell me the love affair with Melo isnt over already... lol.

NY gave up what little depth they had (and they didnt have much) to land Melo. These guys will get worse before they get better. But they will get better, though i dont see them winning a title with the Melo/Amare as the core unless they get some strong defensive role players, a new coach and a PG who knows how to distribute (which Billups can do, and at a championship level, but his game is slowing down and NY needs a PG in his prime).

NY PREES: Take a chill pill!

allSUAVE
03-22-2011, 09:49 AM
Why BULLS fans always on our jocks ,If we suck why you worrying for!!?

But we aiant doing nothing this year

Especially WHEN you change 60% of your line up and rotation .

NEXT YEAR IS OUR YEAR! NEW BEGINNING AND A FRESH START

Me and Mr. T
03-22-2011, 09:55 AM
I just love how all these people jumped on the bandwagon and thought the Knicks had a shot this year of winning a title. You can't win a championship with two players and no bench. It doesn't work that way.

magichatnumber9
03-22-2011, 10:14 AM
What was everybody thinking after NY gutted there roster and future to get melo. No need to panic this will take time. Bad thing is that Amare and Melo take up way to much payroll.

nycericanguy
03-22-2011, 10:42 AM
The Knicks window of opportunity is just too small with two stars already in their prime. You have LeBron hitting his prime in Miami next year...and like him or not, he will be the best player for at least a few more years. DRose is already scary (as in MVP) good on a Bulls squad playing already torrid defense. Russell Westbrook and Kevin Durant are not even 24 and already better than the Knicks two best players. Dwight Howard has yet to hit his prime. I'm pretty sure Kobe will not go away and leave the game quitely either. And god knows how good Blake Griffin will become.

The Knicks it will have to be the smoothest of sailing both on the market and on the hardwood. Just too many uncertainties. They need a new system, they need Melo and Amare to share the ball and unstick their fingers. They need some real defensive help, they need a great bench. They need to play hard every night with the competition they're going to face.

I'm not saying the Knicks won't win a title within the next two or three years...but given the circumstances, I JUST DON'T SEE IT HAPPENING. This team has too many what ifs.

come on, Amare & Melo are 28 & 27, what 1 year older than Lebron? You act like they are 30-32. They have another 5-7 years left at a high level. Amare probably 5 and Melo probably 7.

Coupon
03-22-2011, 10:59 AM
I've said this before, Melo should take any and all blame for the Knicks not being a good team. All he had to do was play out this season with the Nuggets and then sign with the Knicks in the off season and then the Knicks would have been able to keep Felton, Gallo, Chandler, Moz. and they would have been an instant contender. Instead Melo had to sign this extension now, he didn't want to lose any money(obviously matters more than anything bball related) and that made the Knicks have to pay way too much, when they could have gotten him for free this offseason.

What annoys me most about this is that now Melo is saying that it will take til next year. Guy is a selfish, greedy chucker; but his greed did help the Nuggets.

I largely agree. I still think he would have signed with the Knicks anyway, if Dolan hadn't made this move - and it has all the indications of being a Dolan move - but I guess we'll never know. Adding Anthony was good. Decimating the team and trading all your chips to do so was bad and probably unnecessary. If you pointed out the obvious to fans on the Knicks forum, though, they would get hysterical.

I think the team's biggest problem is just the level of talent after Stat and Carmelo. There's not much left. How long it will take to get the right complementary players together, and how much cap space will be available to do it are interesting questions.

Avenged
03-22-2011, 11:42 AM
Anybody who understands and promotes the value of using stats will tell you that it would be a mistake to solely rely on them, and knows full well that they don't tell the whole story. But stats are an extremely useful tool, and the people who dismess their value do so at the expense of their own knowledge of basketball.

No, I agree. Just gets boring after a while seeing the same people who preach stats, down talk players (especially Melo) because he doesn't fit their criteria.

calibird707
03-22-2011, 12:03 PM
This knicks team needs a new coach who has a better feel for the game and runs sets...defense is effort and ALL the players need more of it...the truth is this team has played 16 games together and all the haters and impatient knicks fans are already saying this team is done...if stat and melo want to win then they will make.the necessary sacrifices....dantoni is not the guy to coach this team..he is like another don nelson small ball don't work...we don't need another star...we need to use that money to put better role players around the big 2 and we need a solid halfcourt coach that preaches defense and will light a fire...I don't know what's gonna happen going forward but im staying positive...we got two of the top 20 players in the league..we gotta find a way to make it work

king4day
03-22-2011, 12:09 PM
NY just loves overpaying overrated guys. Take away Marbury and Francis, add $45 mil of Amare and Melo.

lol you compared Marbury and Francis to Amar'e and Melo :)

blahblahyoutoo
03-22-2011, 12:15 PM
Since when were Marbury and Francis on the same level as Stat and Melo? :facepalm::facepalm:

no one is saying that they are. just saying they're overpaid.
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

blahblahyoutoo
03-22-2011, 12:19 PM
They have 2 pieces but those pieces both play 1 dimensional ball while being max paid. This is not a good set up for the knicks.


When this trade first happened I said I did not like it and would not do it if I were the knicks and I got laughed at. Now or next year or the year after wont matter if you have extremely over paid talent whom cant play defense. The knicks really made a mistake making this trade and they will regret it.

agreed.

amare was a good acquisition, but arguably worth it for his performance, some leadership ability, and attracting other free agents.
(personally I wouldn't have committed 5yrs/$100M on him)

now you pay $65M over 3 years for essentially a SF version of STAT. both offensive powerhouses, but neither is playing lockdown defense or hustling on the glass.

blahblahyoutoo
03-22-2011, 12:24 PM
But Melo and Amare are amazing building blocks. They just need better pieces around them. The future is amazingly bright. But you can't build a championship team overnight. And even if this team is worse than it was a month ago, that's not a bad thing at all. All that matters is that it's better suited for the future.

how many smaller blocks can you purchase with 2/3 of the team's salary committed to 2 players?

mikealike305
03-22-2011, 12:27 PM
Im not to surprised about how they are doing. They heat started off bad and they have more talent. This move isnt going to pay off for another year or 2 but it will pay off

blahblahyoutoo
03-22-2011, 12:29 PM
Im not to surprised about how they are doing. They heat started off bad and they have more talent. This move isnt going to pay off for another year or 2 but it will pay off

losing to Boston, Orlando, Chicago.
vs.
losing to Detroit, Cleveland, Indiana, Milwaukee.

oak2455
03-22-2011, 12:38 PM
losing to Boston, Orlando, Chicago.
vs.
losing to Detroit, Cleveland, Indiana, Milwaukee.

Trolling is your specialty your in the Knicks forum and you do it well:D

Slimsim
03-22-2011, 12:38 PM
All we need to do is get into the playoff make a little noise that would be a success

Slimsim
03-22-2011, 12:39 PM
Trolling is your specialty your in the Knicks forum and you do it well:D

Do like me and don't read any of his comments

koreancabbage
03-22-2011, 12:40 PM
i love how Melo says it'll take time for the Knicks to gel.

Look at Denver, they have gelled already. and especially with more players going to Denver in that trade.

Carmelo and Stoudemire do not make teammates better players. They definitely need Paul to get to NY or else this team is going to riding in the middle of the pack for a long time.

Branwegner84
03-22-2011, 12:44 PM
It's understandable that NYK are struggling right now, they gutted their whole team for a few players. I think the biggest problem going forward is next season they have around $60 million committed between 9 players,a few of them aren't impact players, and in 2012-13 they will have $40 million committed between only Amare and Melo.

oak2455
03-22-2011, 12:45 PM
Do like me and don't read any of his comments

your right I should know better, thanks!!

CrazyCrackar
03-22-2011, 12:52 PM
Knicks looked good last night before Melo got in foul trouble(he was all night,but that 5th moved him over to Rondo) he was shutting Peirce down. They prob ant going to make it happen this year, but they can def compete.

justinnum1
03-22-2011, 12:55 PM
when melo and stat learn to pass the ball and help set others up, they will start to win. That and some defense.

There is no reason for that team to be losing to bottom feeders. After a full training camp and learning a defensive system, they can be a top 4 team in the east.

DoubleDragon
03-22-2011, 01:09 PM
Not surprised a Bulls fan posted this, but yeah, we are sucking it up right now. Ill just be happy if we make the playoffs.

******
The NY Post (and fans) are a tough bunch.
whew!

That's why you gotta love the Yanks, Knicks man. When they're falling flat, they hear about it in spades. Gotta have a thick skin, and play at your best or a butt kicking will be had;)
But even so...NY fans still fill seats and support their team. That's nothing but healthy and good for sports.

magichatnumber9
03-22-2011, 01:12 PM
******
The NY Post (and fans) are a tough bunch.
whew!

That's why you gotta love the Yanks, Knicks man. When they're falling flat, they hear about it in spades. Gotta have a thick skin, and play at your best or a butt kicking will be had;)
But even so...NY fans still fill seats and support their team. That's nothing but healthy and good for sports.If you don't read the papers your good to go.

blahblahyoutoo
03-22-2011, 01:45 PM
Trolling is your specialty your in the Knicks forum and you do it well:D

i see you haven't taken up my challenge from the other thread.
find an example of me "trolling". just one.

click on the number to the top right of the post, copy the hot link, paste it here.
let the masses decide whether it's trolling or not, because it appears to me that your definition of trolling is any opinion that differs from yours. quite closed minded if you ask me.

mikealike305
03-22-2011, 01:47 PM
losing to boston, orlando, chicago.
Vs.
Losing to detroit, cleveland, indiana, milwaukee.

i see your point, all im saying is its bad for ny, will be bad for the rest of the season, and might even be bad next year, but after that when they can compete with teams like miami and chicago (and maybe nj) this move will pay off (kinda cuz they still won be able to win a ring or anything)

BcEuAbRsS
03-22-2011, 01:50 PM
Me neither. I guess it should kinda be expected by now that the rival fan trolls will post all the news that craps on their rival team.

Its not like he wrote it... a NY fan wrote it for everyone to see it... stop crying sooo damn much... its pathetic...

Ray_R
03-22-2011, 03:17 PM
Its not like he wrote it... a NY fan wrote it for everyone to see it... stop crying sooo damn much... its pathetic...

I see what you did there.:)

0nekhmer
03-22-2011, 03:39 PM
at least they're admitting they need time to adjust, and not cry over losses :)

koreancabbage
03-22-2011, 03:44 PM
at least they're admitting they need time to adjust, and not cry over losses :)

hahahaha good one!

MelkyNYY
03-22-2011, 04:10 PM
"The Knicks are back!"

blahblahyoutoo
03-22-2011, 06:39 PM
Trolling is your specialty your in the Knicks forum and you do it well:D




i see you haven't taken up my challenge from the other thread.
find an example of me "trolling". just one.

click on the number to the top right of the post, copy the hot link, paste it here.
let the masses decide whether it's trolling or not, because it appears to me that your definition of trolling is any opinion that differs from yours. quite closed minded if you ask me.

nothing right?
either put up or shut up.
i guess you chose the latter.

xxplayerxx23
03-22-2011, 06:45 PM
losing to Boston, Orlando, Chicago.
vs.
losing to Detroit, Cleveland, Indiana, Milwaukee.

we are 6 and 3 against teams over 500 since the trade. You guys started 8 and 9 too so It doesnt matter. Knicks will be a dangours team nextyear

allSUAVE
03-22-2011, 06:57 PM
All the haters enjoy the Knicks stuggles now ,while it last.

Next year is our year to make noise

Crackadalic
03-22-2011, 06:59 PM
i love how Melo says it'll take time for the Knicks to gel.

Look at Denver, they have gelled already. and especially with more players going to Denver in that trade.

Carmelo and Stoudemire do not make teammates better players. They definitely need Paul to get to NY or else this team is going to riding in the middle of the pack for a long time.

What the hell is their to gel in denver. Outside of Chandler/Gallo/Felton all of their players has been playing together for almost a couple years now. Theirs nothing to gel. 60% of the knicks rotation before the trade is replace with either the new players or players who used to play little to no mins are now playing 25+ mins.

Cano4prez
03-22-2011, 07:09 PM
They need to learn to play defense

76erEaglePhils
03-22-2011, 07:16 PM
The knicks suck so bad it's not even funny.

76erEaglePhils
03-22-2011, 07:18 PM
They need to learn to play defenseNot sure that's even possible with these bums.

jason17
03-22-2011, 08:44 PM
Who cares every body said the heats suck and they bounce back. Same thing will happen to the knicks , get over it the Knicks will eventually be dangerous .

DenButsu
03-22-2011, 08:49 PM
we are 6 and 3 against teams over 500 since the trade. You guys started 8 and 9 too so It doesnt matter. Knicks will be a dangours team nextyear

I hadn't noticed the split against winning/losing records, but that's interesting, because for the past several seasons Nuggets fans have been maddened by Denver consistently losing to inferior teams. Seemed like they'd always get their game up for the big boys, but just coast against lesser opponents.

I wouldn't lay this exclusively on Melo (or Billups), because he definitely wasn't the only Nuggets player guilty of giving less than 100% effort night in and night out.

But the fact that the same phenomenon seems to be happening in the small sample size of games he's played with New York so far does raise my eyebrows a little. It'll be interesting to see if it continues into next season. If so, there would probably be some merit to making a case that Melo (and/or Billups, I suppose, although I never viewed laziness as one of his problematic areas) was a big part of the reason that happened in Denver.

theheatles
03-22-2011, 08:50 PM
i don't think the knicks will make it out of the 1st rd, which is no surprise, but i don't know how the knicks can assemble a better team than miami in the future with the current deals, wade, bosh and james(each i think make like 19 or 19.5 million a yr) didn't get max contracts but do make more money than ppl in new york because of new york has a federal tax, city tax and state tax and miami only has a federal tax ...amare got a full max contract which was like 21-22 million a yr...and melo will def resign for a max contract because he won't get a tax break like the guys in miami and lets face it, melo is all about the money...so with that said how can they get another max contract guy and build a good cast...and chauncey will go after next yr..so i just don't see them getting someone like chris paul...maybe they can get some good additions but i don't see them adding a perennial all star

76erEaglePhils
03-22-2011, 08:51 PM
coming from a 76er fan. Hope you guys have fun getting swept in the first round by miami or whoever you vs. Difference between us and u is we have a shot to win a series key word a shot u guys have no shotSpeaking from a fan who's team can't beat Cleveland or Detoit but, yet thinks they have a legit shot to knock off a top 3 seed. Give me a break your team stinks enjoy your losing record with the savior of your franchise Carmelo. What's going to be his next lame *** excuse for the crap the knicks have put out on the floor.

76erEaglePhils
03-22-2011, 08:54 PM
i don't think the knicks will make it out of the 1st rd, which is no surprise, but i don't know how the knicks can assemble a better team than miami in the future with the current deals, wade, bosh and james(each i think make like 19 or 19.5 million a yr) didn't get max contracts but do make more money than ppl in new york because of new york has a federal tax, city tax and state tax and miami only has a federal tax ...amare got a full max contract which was like 21-22 million a yr...and melo will def resign for a max contract because he won't get a tax break like the guys in miami and lets face it, melo is all about the money...so with that said how can they get another max contract guy and build a good cast...and chauncey will go after next yr..so i just don't see them getting someone like chris paul...maybe they can get some good additions but i don't see them adding a perennial all starI think you hit it on the money.

DoMeFavors
03-22-2011, 09:08 PM
Knicks are REALLY bad this year, I dont know but they will have to make some serious changes this offseason. I think best thing to do is buyout Billups. They would have around 16 million to get a starting pg and nice center. Leaving Billups on the team they will have no cap space and will only be able to sign small vet min contracts..if the new CBA allows it. Knicks are in a lot of trouble. Sixers who have not even close to the talent that NY has is 100 times better because they have chemistry, dont need to put up stats and an actual coach. NY is terrible.

Chill_Will_24
03-22-2011, 09:47 PM
NY fans have trouble seeing this because of the euphoria and excitement that their "Big Two" has created. However soon they will realize how bleak the future looks. The main culprit is Dolan who sooo foolishly let his greed and/or fear of the Nets cloud his judgement. He should NEVER have allowed Denver to dictate the terms of the trade. He should have realized who he was bidding on. He gutted his team for a money hungry, overrated "superstar" that cared so much about the money that he made the Knicks give up their future for him. Now Walsh is rumored to be out in favor of Thomas who is the reason that NY was **** in the first place. Meanwhile they will be stuck with two overpaid stars that dont compliment each other anymore than Iverson/Melo in Denver back in 06 and the hope that MAYBE... just MAYBE Chris Paul, Deron Williams, or Dwight Howard will choose to play for them at a huge bargain discount.

NY is dealing with the problems MIA is except MIA has two LEGIT superstars whose talent more than compensates for their problems and they actually play elite defense when they try. However the whole BIG THREE approach is still not a good way to form a squad and NY will NOT succeed. Ppl can feed themselves all the "next year we will be dangerous ****" all they want but guess what... your a dangerous team NOW!!! Next year will be no different because your problems are still there. I dont think getting a new coach will be the answer to make NY a contender because while Melo is better in a half court tempo, Amare is probably NOT. Remember how well Amare played for Terry Porter??? Then theres the fact that they need a C in the worst way and Gasol is a pipe dream cuz Memphis will NOT let Gasol go. Im sorry but like i said... once the smoke settles ppl will realize what a mistake getting Carmelo was.

MelkyNYY
03-22-2011, 09:52 PM
All the haters enjoy the Knicks stuggles now ,while it last.

Next year is our year to make noise

But, but wait! "The Knicks are back!" implies the Knicks are back right now, not next year. If you are going to stand by this statement, I demand you send your PR department a message to change your mantra from "The Knicks are back!" to

"The Knicks WILL be back next year!"

NYYCowboys
03-22-2011, 11:49 PM
Knicks are REALLY bad this year, I dont know but they will have to make some serious changes this offseason. I think best thing to do is buyout Billups. They would have around 16 million to get a starting pg and nice center. Leaving Billups on the team they will have no cap space and will only be able to sign small vet min contracts..if the new CBA allows it. Knicks are in a lot of trouble. Sixers who have not even close to the talent that NY has is 100 times better because they have chemistry, dont need to put up stats and an actual coach. NY is terrible.

How haven't you been banned yet? I have been posting and reading the NBA forum for a while and have come up with the conclusion that you're either a 12 year old kid, or a desperate person who has nothing better to do in life than troll in the NBA forum about clearly superior teams than the crap one that you root for.

godolphins
03-22-2011, 11:56 PM
He wanted to go to NY so now he has to deal with the media

Denver-boy
03-23-2011, 12:22 AM
Damn, I hate Melo since he Left... but man dudes bursting into flames.... its more than I could ever Ask for :D

Regret Leaving Yet Melo LMAO... This is awsome!! I love the the New Nuggetz anywayz, We dont Miss you

Denver-boy
03-23-2011, 12:26 AM
He wanted to go to NY so now he has to deal with the media

:shrug: This is What Melo Wanted, "ITs a DREAM" so Here you Go :D

I hope Nuggets Win the Championship... make Melo look that more stupid leaving

BigCityofDreams
03-23-2011, 10:01 AM
:shrug: This is What Melo Wanted, "ITs a DREAM" so Here you Go :D

I hope Nuggets Win the Championship... make Melo look that more stupid leaving

Nuggets aren't winning the Championship anytime soon

nickdymez
03-23-2011, 10:57 AM
:shrug: This is What Melo Wanted, "ITs a DREAM" so Here you Go :D

I hope Nuggets Win the Championship... make Melo look that more stupid leaving

lol@ the nuggets winning the championship

blahblahyoutoo
03-23-2011, 11:19 AM
Trolling is your specialty your in the Knicks forum and you do it well:D

and you just got called out in your own forum for calling someone else a troll, by a knicks mod.
:clap:

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603260

I don't think the word troll means what you think it means.

BigCityofDreams
03-23-2011, 11:23 AM
lol@ the nuggets winning the championship

I guess that's what a hot streak does.

Punk
03-23-2011, 11:49 AM
I lost respect for Denver fans already. It's quite sad.

You remember the group of fans that said crazy dumb crap? Cleveland...Look how that turned out after their "hot" start.

DenButsu
03-23-2011, 11:55 AM
I lost respect for Denver fans already. It's quite sad.

Yeah, I'm already crying, Punk, since the only thing that matters to us is what New Yorkers think about us. If we can't be validated by you guys, what's the point? Life is pretty much meaningless after that.

I guess we'll just have to wallow in the depression of watching our young, hard working team, with its bright future, playing great defense, running the most efficient offense in the league, sharing the ball, and buying into the team concept. Sucks for us.

---------

Edit -

Oh, and if you think Denver's situation is comparable to Cleveland's in any regard, then your evaluation of NBA talent should probably be re-evaluated.

omdigga
03-23-2011, 12:12 PM
wats with the ny vs. denver.. i love watching denver play cause they got half of our old team contributing.. players who were considered garbage and nothing you guys wanted before the trade went down..

melo will be ok.. the knicks will be ok.. it cant be as bad as the last ten years.. we wont be satisfied until we win the title.. but this roster has us closer to becoming contenders than anything we had in a long time..

DenButsu
03-23-2011, 12:39 PM
wats with the ny vs. denver..

FWIW, I don't engage unless someone goes out of their way to step on our team or fans, and rarely outside of the Nuggets forum, and never in the Knicks forum, where I don't think I've posted a single time all season. And this thread was not posted by a Nuggets fan.

BrooklynBandito
03-23-2011, 12:59 PM
It's simple, Melo is just overrated and always has been.


SO Demar and Amir arent?? (by raptors fans at least)

Pierzynski4Prez
03-23-2011, 01:07 PM
Nuggets aren't winning the Championship anytime soon

Neither are the Knicks.

tbomlad
03-23-2011, 01:10 PM
This team is going to take time to gel together.

This is the excuse superstars use when their team is underachieving. I don't hear the Nuggets talking about needing time. The Knicks as they are are not good enough and if they keep the same role players next year they will still not be good enough, period. Stop with the pathetic excuses.:facepalm:

BigCityofDreams
03-23-2011, 01:11 PM
Neither are the Knicks.

They have a better chance once they change the coach and fill out the rest of the roster.

BigCityofDreams
03-23-2011, 01:12 PM
Lol at ppl thinking the Knick team they see now will be the same team they see 2-3 yrs from now. SMH.

tbomlad
03-23-2011, 01:14 PM
The Heat talking about 6, 7, 8 championships before they even held a practice was ridiculous but just as ridiculous was the talking heads in the media calling the Knicks an elite team in the East before they played a game together.

Pierzynski4Prez
03-23-2011, 01:17 PM
They have a better chance once they change the coach and fill out the rest of the roster.

Much easier said than done. Also, don't forget to add "teaching your star players how to play defense" to the list.

DoMeFavors
03-23-2011, 01:29 PM
Amare and Carmelo = Iverson and Carmelo

Knicks will never make it out of the first round, they are going to be in major cap hell for the next 5 years. I feel sorry that they got abbused, because I think Denver got the better deal, I mean who trades their starting PG, SG, SF and C for an old pg who is done and Carmelo? Knicks got robbed, its so crazy how Denver won this deal.. Donnie Walsh is ashamed that Dolan talked him into that. I mean what would have happened if Knicks only offer was Chandler and Felton? Would Denver have said no and let him walk? Knicks were played by two rookie gms.

Kenny
03-23-2011, 01:41 PM
99 percent of the trades where the team gets the superstar they get the last laugh. This one is going to be no different.

DiogenesofSC
03-23-2011, 01:44 PM
I love hearing the excuses of "It's the coach" and "It takes time". It didn't take time for Denver to start winning. D'Antoni preaches defense, but not everyone in this group likes to play defense. The team does not play a full 48 minutes. You can't blame the coach when his team is ahead for 40 - 42 minutes, then they stop playing. Early in the season the Knicks were down by 10 points against the Celtics and they kept attacking. They eventually lost, but they did not stop playing. Now they are getting crushed at the end of games and losing it big.

blastmasta26
03-23-2011, 01:49 PM
Amare and Carmelo = Iverson and Carmelo

Knicks will never make it out of the first round, they are going to be in major cap hell for the next 5 years. I feel sorry that they got abbused, because I think Denver got the better deal, I mean who trades their starting PG, SG, SF and C for an old pg who is done and Carmelo? Knicks got robbed, its so crazy how Denver won this deal.. Donnie Walsh is ashamed that Dolan talked him into that. I mean what would have happened if Knicks only offer was Chandler and Felton? Would Denver have said no and let him walk? Knicks were played by two rookie gms.
sadly true, Dolan once again ruined our future. I was all for the Melo trade, but the amount we gave up concerns me. And I'm not too optimistic about tue future since cap room is limited.

DenButsu
03-23-2011, 01:49 PM
Lol at ppl thinking the Knick team they see now will be the same team they see 2-3 yrs from now. SMH.

Oh, they'll be a good team for a long time. They'll make the playoffs every season, and feeding off the bottom of the EC (unless it gets considerably stronger than it is now), they'll probably be in the 48-52 win range pretty consistently.

But if they want to have success in the postseason, they're going to have to address the defensive limitations of Carmelo and Amare by packing defenders around them in the starting 5. And that will probably hamper their offense, to an extent (see Kenyon Martin in Denver). And both Melo and Stoudemire will always get their isos. So it puts them in a bit of a pinch: Either assemble a better defensive roster that results in a predictable offense, or assemble a high octane offensive juggernaut, defense be damned, but be badly exposed on the other end. Or, perhaps, do a half measure of both. In any event, there will be flaws that can fairly easily be exploited by solid opponents in 7-game series.

Now, if they actually land CP3 (although I see this as highly unlikely, given the direction that current CBA negotiations are heading), that could be a game changer.

But then, did they trade for a superstar for the purpose of needing to acquire yet another superstar to be successful?

SluggeR
03-23-2011, 02:03 PM
It's tough for my boys because they are trying to figure things out, while other teams have figured everything out and or fine-tuning themselves for the playoffs. What makes it extra tough, is that the pg is trying to adapt and we all know that the pg is the head of Coach 'antoni's offense.

TheBatchelor213
03-23-2011, 02:05 PM
sure dont see the NUggets complaing about chemistry.....why? Because they got rid of a plague....Anthony grow up.

koreancabbage
03-23-2011, 02:12 PM
SO Demar and Amir arent?? (by raptors fans at least)

what? what does this have to do with Demar and Amir?

they are still taking licks and pretty crummy by all standards. noone's overrating them at all... we just know that Demar is a great dunker and he was robbed at the contest but that is all. He has a ways to grow up.

Melo is overrated and all his flaws and lack of leadership is magnified in the NY media. overrated defense and volume shooter just like running mate in Amare. evidenced by the plus/minus ratings among other things

sintaks12
03-23-2011, 02:13 PM
Amare and Carmelo = Iverson and Carmelo

Knicks will never make it out of the first round, they are going to be in major cap hell for the next 5 years. I feel sorry that they got abbused, because I think Denver got the better deal, I mean who trades their starting PG, SG, SF and C for an old pg who is done and Carmelo? Knicks got robbed, its so crazy how Denver won this deal.. Donnie Walsh is ashamed that Dolan talked him into that. I mean what would have happened if Knicks only offer was Chandler and Felton? Would Denver have said no and let him walk? Knicks were played by two rookie gms.

This is coming from the same guy that almost creamed his pants... daily... thinking that his team was about to get Melo and gut their roster in the process. You should stop talking out of your arse and stick to worrying about re-signing Deron... because you SHOULD be worried. People who expected the Knicks not to struggle after this trade don't live in reality. You don't trade away 5 players and build chemistry with a new cast in 3 weeks. Call it an excuse... I call it fact. This trade was for the future of the franchise and with our cap situation in 2012, I hardly think we're in "cap hell." But keep talkin DoMeFavors. Keep talkin.

koreancabbage
03-23-2011, 02:13 PM
sure dont see the NUggets complaing about chemistry.....why? Because they got rid of a plague....Anthony grow up.

exactly. Come on Melo, stop complaining about chemistry when the Nuggets had more players to implement into a system.

DoMeFavors
03-23-2011, 02:28 PM
This is coming from the same guy that almost creamed his pants... daily... thinking that his team was about to get Melo and gut their roster in the process. You should stop talking out of your arse and stick to worrying about re-signing Deron... because you SHOULD be worried. People who expected the Knicks not to struggle after this trade don't live in reality. You don't trade away 5 players and build chemistry with a new cast in 3 weeks. Call it an excuse... I call it fact. This trade was for the future of the franchise and with our cap situation in 2012, I hardly think we're in "cap hell." But keep talkin DoMeFavors. Keep talkin.

Oh my lord, this is a thread about CARMELO! I am responding to it. Why bring Deron and me into it? Just because I posted my opinion means you have to insult me?

NYhighrollaz
03-23-2011, 02:35 PM
Can you people stop being idiots with nothing to talk about. They have played what? 15 games together. Does anybody realize how long it takes players to gel together.

They just need to build pieces for the future. If anybody expected them to go far in the playoffs this year, you're smoking something:facepalm:

Pierzynski4Prez
03-23-2011, 02:45 PM
Can you people stop being idiots with nothing to talk about. They have played what? 15 games together. Does anybody realize how long it takes players to gel together.

They just need to build pieces for the future. If anybody expected them to go far in the playoffs this year, you're smoking something:facepalm:

Dude, its the Knicks. You guys beg for attention. You claim its what draws the stars to NY. After the Melo trade there was a million threads about how good the Knicks will be. And all of this is just a response to what Melo said.

So now that they are playing ****ty, you ask people to stop talking about them? Oh, and as someone said before, ask Denver how long it takes to gel. And, I do agree with you though that nobody is expecting them to go far in the playoffs this year, most also agree that they won't be going far at all in any year to come unless there is a drastic change in coaching, personnel, and player attitude.

blahblahyoutoo
03-23-2011, 02:47 PM
Can you people stop being idiots with nothing to talk about. They have played what? 15 games together. Does anybody realize how long it takes players to gel together.

They just need to build pieces for the future. If anybody expected them to go far in the playoffs this year, you're smoking something:facepalm:

how many games together do 2 top 10 players need to beat the bottom barrel teams like the pistons, bucks, pacers twice, cavs twice, etc.?

DoMeFavors
03-23-2011, 02:52 PM
Knick fans have seen their franchise suck for many years, and after getting Melo and Amare they thought they would be good. In the west they wouldnt make the playoffs. So their excuse this time that they are buying into from Knicks is "they need time to gel" haha. Knick fans if you want to keep believing all this crap they keep telling you by all means.

FisolaNYDN: Give Knicks credit. Told fans they’re sacrificing 2 years for LeBron. Now, saying just wait til 2012 & fans are buying it. Pure genius

it was a terrible trade for Knicks, I didnt think that a player wanting out like Carmelo the franchise trading him would actually get better. Knicks franchise is run by amatures.

nycsports2
03-23-2011, 02:53 PM
Its really weird bc they beat alot of good teams but lose 2 all the bad i give it another 2 yrs before there a legit force in the nba but theyll get it together im sure... 1st round exit but i think theyll win 2 or 3 games

Pierzynski4Prez
03-23-2011, 02:54 PM
Knick fans have seen their franchise suck for many years, and after getting Melo and Amare they thought they would be good. In the west they wouldnt make the playoffs. So their excuse this time that they are buying into from Knicks is "they need time to gel" haha. Knick fans if you want to keep believing all this crap they keep telling you by all means.

FisolaNYDN: Give Knicks credit. Told fans they’re sacrificing 2 years for LeBron. Now, saying just wait til 2012 & fans are buying it. Pure genius

it was a terrible trade for Knicks, I didnt think that a player wanting out like Carmelo the franchise trading him would actually get better. Knicks franchise is run by amatures.

They better hope those Isiah rumors are false.

sintaks12
03-23-2011, 03:00 PM
Oh my lord, this is a thread about CARMELO! I am responding to it. Why bring Deron and me into it? Just because I posted my opinion means you have to insult me?

I don't normally post, but when people blatantly contradict themselves... well, sometimes ya gotta step in. I don't mind people speaking their mind. This is a free world and you're entitled to your opinion. But don't say one thing and do another. Don't BEG (and I mean BEG) for the NJ Nets to trade for Melo and then bash then Knicks when they got him. Your team was going to offer 5 picks. REPEAT, 5 PICKS. And you were all for it. So don't talk ish on the Knicks and the package they gave for Melo.

Chill_Will_24
03-23-2011, 03:00 PM
Knicks will go nowhere... They had ONE shot at bringing championship basketball to NY. They ****ed up. They are stuck with two max players that dont compliment each other and dont work well within the system. STFU with the excuses... and just call it what it is.

- Denver had more players to incorporate and they are playing better than ever. Furthermore none of the players they received were of Melo's talent level making the transition even harder

- Melo is a ball stopper playing in a system that requires the offense to run smoothly and move the ball.

- His sidekick is another player that nees the ball to operate

- Neither plays good team defense and lack motivation to do so

- The Knicks are limited in their flexibility to sign help

- They have limited trade chips

My Nets are also setting themselves up for failure. Deron Williams is not guaranteed to resign and if their attempts to land Dwight fail its likely he will leave since Dwight is the only superstar that makes sense for them. In short, all these teams need to stop trying to create super teams and just build the right way.

ohreally
03-23-2011, 03:02 PM
when melo and stat learn to pass the ball and help set others up, they will start to win. That and some defense.

There is no reason for that team to be losing to bottom feeders. After a full training camp and learning a defensive system, they can be a top 4 team in the east.

This seems contradictory to me. I don't see Melo or stat truly learning to share the ball with others and it still remains to be sen whether they really want to share te ball even between the two of them. As for defense...well, that ain't gonna happen with these two and finding another three guys who are good enough defenders to make up for that and can also shoot well enough to help bail them out every once in a while is going to take a long time. If stat was really a super rebounder it could alleviate some of the defensive ineptitude, but he's not.

We do have the possibility of getting a third star and finding good three-point shooters in the draft and just embracing the offense-is-everything concept, but the cba could have something to say about that.

Having long ago grown up with the Knicks, I love team ball. This star ball business we're into now really doesn't do much for me--though if they do surprise me and manage to put it all together I guess I could learn to adapt.

NYYCowboys
03-23-2011, 03:03 PM
He can be, but the Knicks is a terrible fit, the defense they dont play is a huge factor, the coach, the team. They gave up almost all their team for this guy to be in cap hell. Him and Amare are one dimensional players they dont go well together. They go together like Tomato Sauce and Mint Chip ice cream. BAD BAD Fit. I feel bad that having these two guys for 5 years and not winning anything the Knick fan will have to deal with.

Oh but Carmelo and the rest of the awful players who would be left on the Nets would have been a GREAT GREAT fit. Oh ok I see...

Enjoy the Knicks bad play while you can because when they get it together this year and take one of the big 3 teams in the East to the brink of elimination in the playoffs you'll be eating your words as always.

sintaks12
03-23-2011, 03:04 PM
Attack other posters all you want, what does it have to do with the current state of the Knicks?

He's simply making a point that DoMeFavors flip flops a lot on his opinions. And it has nothing to do with the current state of the Knicks. It's just enfuriating sometimes when people talk out of their arses. The Knicks are struggling because of chemistry issues. Period. When they get it together, and they will, they'll be just fine. Especially with the ability to add a near max contract in 2012. Yeah, we're in horrible shape. SMH.

Pierzynski4Prez
03-23-2011, 03:05 PM
I don't normally post, but when people blatantly contradict themselves... well, sometimes ya gotta step in. I don't mind people speaking their mind. This is a free world and you're entitled to your opinion. But don't say one thing and do another. Don't BEG (and I mean BEG) for the NJ Nets to trade for Melo and then bash then Knicks when they got him. Your team was going to offer 5 picks. REPEAT, 5 PICKS. And you were all for it. So don't talk ish on the Knicks and the package they gave for Melo.

I'm not here to defend the garbage that he's spewed in the past. And he's not talking down Melo, which is what you guys are inferring he's doing.

He's simply talking about what you gave up, which most people would agree was a ton. Probably a lot more than necessary, hell your GM didn't even want to do the trade. 5 picks is a lot to give up, but NJ had the picks to give. Not every team has a backup PG, 2 quality SF's, C that are starter capable just sitting on the bench. (Unless your the bulls ;))

Chill_Will_24
03-23-2011, 03:07 PM
He can be, but the Knicks is a terrible fit, the defense they dont play is a huge factor, the coach, the team. They gave up almost all their team for this guy to be in cap hell. Him and Amare are one dimensional players they dont go well together. They go together like Tomato Sauce and Mint Chip ice cream. BAD BAD Fit. I feel bad that having these two guys for 5 years and not winning anything the Knick fan will have to deal with.

Can you just stop it... im ashamed that your a fellow Nets fan. You wanted Melo soooo bad that you were driving us nuts in our forum. Now your laughing at a struggling Knicks squad.... i cant believe your not banned

Chill_Will_24
03-23-2011, 03:08 PM
I don't normally post, but when people blatantly contradict themselves... well, sometimes ya gotta step in. I don't mind people speaking their mind. This is a free world and you're entitled to your opinion. But don't say one thing and do another. Don't BEG (and I mean BEG) for the NJ Nets to trade for Melo and then bash then Knicks when they got him. Your team was going to offer 5 picks. REPEAT, 5 PICKS. And you were all for it. So don't talk ish on the Knicks and the package they gave for Melo.

Not true. The rumors were running wild but the deal was never confirmed to have included 5 picks. The most was 3.

DoMeFavors
03-23-2011, 03:09 PM
Oh but Carmelo and the rest of the awful players who would be left on the Nets would have been a GREAT GREAT fit. Oh ok I see...

Enjoy the Knicks bad play while you can because when they get it together this year and take one of the big 3 teams in the East to the brink of elimination in the playoffs you'll be eating your words as always.

I dont enjoy seeing Knicks be bad, because I cant even remember a time when they were good. I just want the Knicks to finally be good something I havent seen in a LONG LONG time. It doesnt look like they will be good anytime soon. I hope they do well though. It seems like its going to be a while before they are good again.

Hawkeye15
03-23-2011, 03:09 PM
chill out in here or it gets shut down.

Pierzynski4Prez
03-23-2011, 03:09 PM
He's simply making a point that DoMeFavors flip flops a lot on his opinions. And it has nothing to do with the current state of the Knicks. It's just enfuriating sometimes when people talk out of their arses. The Knicks are struggling because of chemistry issues. Period. When they get it together, and they will, they'll be just fine. Especially with the ability to add a near max contract in 2012. Yeah, we're in horrible shape. SMH.

1st bold is pure speculation. And by just fine, do you mean topping out at 4th seed in the eastern conference year after year. Because that is about the ceiling for this Knicks roster, even with improvements.

2nd bold, you have no idea if you can offer a max contract next year. Cap will be down again. And its been discussed in previous threads, with cap holds and Melo's salary, you won't even have 10 million to spend in FA. And you may want to spread that out amongst quality role players instead of throwing all your money at 1 player. Depth plays a key role as the Knicks are finding out 1st hand.

NYYCowboys
03-23-2011, 03:10 PM
Knicks will go nowhere... They had ONE shot at bringing championship basketball to NY. They ****ed up. They are stuck with two max players that dont compliment each other and dont work well within the system. STFU with the excuses... and just call it what it is.

- Denver had more players to incorporate and they are playing better than ever. Furthermore none of the players they received were of Melo's talent level making the transition even harder

- Melo is a ball stopper playing in a system that requires the offense to run smoothly and move the ball.

- His sidekick is another player that nees the ball to operate

- Neither plays good team defense and lack motivation to do so

- The Knicks are limited in their flexibility to sign help

- They have limited trade chips

My Nets are also setting themselves up for failure. Deron Williams is not guaranteed to resign and if their attempts to land Dwight fail its likely he will leave since Dwight is the only superstar that makes sense for them. In short, all these teams need to stop trying to create super teams and just build the right way.

First of all the players the Nuggets got were inserted into roles with the Nuggets that they have been playing their whole careers with the Knicks (and Felton with the Bobcats). So obviously it's not going to take them long to gel.

Carmelo has never been in a situation like this where he isn't the only primary scorer, and has never played in a system like Mike D'Antoni's. He still is going to need time to get used to running this system, and playing a totally different way than he's played his whole career.

My second point is it's been 16 games! If you judged the outcome of a trade/how good a team is in 16 games you are bound to look like a fool. If the same happens over the course of an entire season then fine you were right, but don't go ahead and say what a failure this is because of 16 games.

I personally don't know what will happen with the Knicks. The trade could turn out to be a disaster, but I'll wait for a better sample size to judge them. But all I know is we could be in a lot worse positions than having two top 15 players on one team so I'm optimistic.

Pierzynski4Prez
03-23-2011, 03:12 PM
First of all the players the Nuggets got were inserted into roles with the Nuggets that they have been playing their whole careers with the Knicks (and Felton with the Bobcats). So obviously it's not going to take them long to gel.

Carmelo has never been in a situation like this where he isn't the only primary scorer, and has never played in a system like Mike D'Antoni's. He still is going to need time to get used to running this system, and playing a totally different way than he's played his whole career.

My second point is it's been 16 games! If you judged the outcome of a trade/how good a team is in 16 games you are bound to look like a fool. If the same happens over the course of an entire season then fine you were right, but don't go ahead and say what a failure this is because of 16 games.

I personally don't know what will happen with the Knicks. The trade could turn out to be a disaster, but I'll wait for a better sample size to judge them. But all I know is we could be in a lot worse positions than having two top 15 players on one team so I'm optimistic.

Allen Iverson anyone?

Chill_Will_24
03-23-2011, 03:13 PM
Its really weird bc they beat alot of good teams but lose 2 all the bad i give it another 2 yrs before there a legit force in the nba but theyll get it together im sure... 1st round exit but i think theyll win 2 or 3 games

Thats another silver lining that my NY Knicks fan friends claim but the truth is that i just havent seen that. The case can be made that the so called good teams that you claim to have beaten lost those games as much as you won them. Ny is struggling against EVERY team no mater how good whether they win the game or not

NYhighrollaz
03-23-2011, 03:13 PM
Dude, its the Knicks. You guys beg for attention. You claim its what draws the stars to NY. After the Melo trade there was a million threads about how good the Knicks will be. And all of this is just a response to what Melo said.

So now that they are playing ****ty, you ask people to stop talking about them? Oh, and as someone said before, ask Denver how long it takes to gel. And, I do agree with you though that nobody is expecting them to go far in the playoffs this year, most also agree that they won't be going far at all in any year to come unless there is a drastic change in coaching, personnel, and player attitude.


LOL @ this post. I assume the Knicks after ONE YEAR of rebuilding are now all of a sudden supposed to be champions? Ever stop to think the MEDIA created this for a storyline because it was part of the "Melo" drama? Probably not.


Do I care about denver playing well? Are they going to beat the Lakers, spurs, thunder, mavs, blazers, etc? Are you telling me because they are "playing well" that they are a fearful team? The knicks are a few role player pieces away from being a contender. I was against the Anthony signing, but it happened so now they need to build around him and Stat and they'll be fine.

DoMeFavors
03-23-2011, 03:14 PM
First of all the players the Nuggets got were inserted into roles with the Nuggets that they have been playing their whole careers with the Knicks (and Felton with the Bobcats). So obviously it's not going to take them long to gel.

Carmelo has never been in a situation like this where he isn't the only primary scorer, and has never played in a system like Mike D'Antoni's. He still is going to need time to get used to running this system, and playing a totally different way than he's played his whole career.

My second point is it's been 16 games! If you judged the outcome of a trade/how good a team is in 16 games you are bound to look like a fool. If the same happens over the course of an entire season then fine you were right, but don't go ahead and say what a failure this is because of 16 games.

I personally don't know what will happen with the Knicks. The trade could turn out to be a disaster, but I'll wait for a better sample size to judge them. But all I know is we could be in a lot worse positions than having two top 15 players on one team so I'm optimistic.

Allen Iveron says HELLO

NYYCowboys
03-23-2011, 03:14 PM
Allen Iverson anyone?

Oh please don't compare an over the hill Allen Iverson to Amare Stoudemire in his prime. Completely different players. It was still Carmelo's team even when Iverson was playing with him.

JonnyBrav000
03-23-2011, 03:16 PM
Everyone needs to relax, the Melo trade won't do much for the Knicks in the short term but they are still clearly the winners of that trade. The Nuggets won't be able to keep all the guys they acquired from NY, and the Knicks will add pieces they need to their team, like 1 or 2 big men Like Tyson Chandler and Samuel Dalembert. Once they do that, the Knicks will be one of the toughest teams to match up against in the NBA.

Pierzynski4Prez
03-23-2011, 03:17 PM
LOL @ this post. I assume the Knicks after ONE YEAR of rebuilding are now all of a sudden supposed to be champions? Ever stop to think the MEDIA created this for a storyline because it was part of the "Melo" drama? Probably not.


Do I care about denver playing well? Are they going to beat the Lakers, spurs, thunder, mavs, blazers, etc? Are you telling me because they are "playing well" that they are a fearful team? The knicks are a few role player pieces away from being a contender. I was against the Anthony signing, but it happened so now they need to build around him and Stat and they'll be fine.

1 year???? Really, knicks have been rebuilding for 1 year? Thanks, I needed a good laugh. Havent been to the playoffs since 2004, and this is the 1st year of rebuilding. Ok boss.

And FYI, about half the league is a few quality role players from being contenders.

DoMeFavors
03-23-2011, 03:17 PM
Oh please don't compare an over the hill Allen Iverson to Amare Stoudemire in his prime. Completely different players. It was still Carmelo's team even when Iverson was playing with him.

Allen Iverson 2007-2008 avg 26 points a game
Carmelo Anthony 2007-2008 avg 25 points a game

Pierzynski4Prez
03-23-2011, 03:19 PM
Oh please don't compare an over the hill Allen Iverson to Amare Stoudemire in his prime. Completely different players. It was still Carmelo's team even when Iverson was playing with him.

Over the hill, maybe. Averaging 26/game, Yes. And you said Melo's never played with another scorer. Was I wrong?

NYhighrollaz
03-23-2011, 03:23 PM
1 year???? Really, knicks have been rebuilding for 1 year? Thanks, I needed a good laugh. Havent been to the playoffs since 2004, and this is the 1st year of rebuilding. Ok boss.

And FYI, about half the league is a few quality role players from being contenders.



2004 they made the playoffs by default. Do you even watch basketball? Do you even follow the Knicks in this area?


When was the last time they were talked about? relevant? THIS YEAR. They cleaned up after Layden's and Isiah's garbage and got well under the cap to sign free agents. They landed amar'e and now they landed melo. They couldn't rebuild period for 10 years because they were in cap trouble. How could they rebuild since 2004 when they were maxed out in cap space? Explain that to me.

NYYCowboys
03-23-2011, 03:23 PM
Over the hill, maybe. Averaging 26/game, Yes. And you said Melo's never played with another scorer. Was I wrong?

Ok fine I'll amend my statement to he's never not been the primary focus of an offense, and been introduced to a situation where the team doesn't revolve around him. This is Amare's team as of right now, and Melo has to adjust to it and maybe someday it can be his team.

Also even though AI was scoring 26 a game he is a completely different player than Amare, and Carmelo certainly has never played with a player like Amare.

BigCityofDreams
03-23-2011, 03:24 PM
Much easier said than done. Also, don't forget to add "teaching your star players how to play defense" to the list.

To do that they'll need to change the coach which I expect them to do after next season.

Chill_Will_24
03-23-2011, 03:25 PM
Oh please don't compare an over the hill Allen Iverson to Amare Stoudemire in his prime. Completely different players. It was still Carmelo's team even when Iverson was playing with him.

What you stated was that Carmelo has never been in a situation where he wasnt the only primary scorer. Stop back tracking. I remember that year Carmelo and Iverson were 1st and 2nd in the PPG for a long time in the season. I wouldnt call that '06 Iverson exactly over the hill either. Also Denvers system is not THAT much different from D'Antonis. Both run the ball and play high tempo. Also you have Chancey Billups who is a veteran and an NBA champion and even HE cant run that offense. Bad combination of players in that whole squad.

Chill_Will_24
03-23-2011, 03:26 PM
Everyone needs to relax, the Melo trade won't do much for the Knicks in the short term but they are still clearly the winners of that trade. The Nuggets won't be able to keep all the guys they acquired from NY, and the Knicks will add pieces they need to their team, like 1 or 2 big men Like Tyson Chandler and Samuel Dalembert. Once they do that, the Knicks will be one of the toughest teams to match up against in the NBA.

Yea... they are winning a lot... clearly winners of that trade...

DoMeFavors
03-23-2011, 03:26 PM
Ok fine I'll amend my statement to he's never not been the primary focus of an offense, and been introduced to a situation where the team doesn't revolve around him. This is Amare's team as of right now, and Melo has to adjust to it and maybe someday it can be his team.

Also even though AI was scoring 26 a game he is a completely different player than Amare, and Carmelo certainly has never played with a player like Amare.

This is Amares team? I think its also Roger Masons team and Carmelos team and Sheldon Williams team. I dont understand what you mean by Amares team?

Pierzynski4Prez
03-23-2011, 03:28 PM
2004 they made the playoffs by default. Do you even watch basketball? Do you even follow the Knicks in this area?


When was the last time they were talked about? relevant? THIS YEAR. They cleaned up after Layden's and Isiah's garbage and got well under the cap to sign free agents. They landed amar'e and now they landed melo. They couldn't rebuild period for 10 years because they were in cap trouble. How could they rebuild since 2004 when they were maxed out in cap space? Explain that to me.

:confused::confused: If 2004-2010 wasn't rebuilding, then what was it?

Pierzynski4Prez
03-23-2011, 03:30 PM
To do that they'll need to change the coach which I expect them to do after next season.

That's a good start, but you will need a coach that will force his guys to play D. A coach can only do so much, Amare and Melo need to actually play D on the court, which Amare has never done, and melo spottingly over his career.

BigCityofDreams
03-23-2011, 03:31 PM
Oh, they'll be a good team for a long time. They'll make the playoffs every season, and feeding off the bottom of the EC (unless it gets considerably stronger than it is now), they'll probably be in the 48-52 win range pretty consistently.

But if they want to have success in the postseason, they're going to have to address the defensive limitations of Carmelo and Amare by packing defenders around them in the starting 5. And that will probably hamper their offense, to an extent (see Kenyon Martin in Denver). And both Melo and Stoudemire will always get their isos. So it puts them in a bit of a pinch: Either assemble a better defensive roster that results in a predictable offense, or assemble a high octane offensive juggernaut, defense be damned, but be badly exposed on the other end. Or, perhaps, do a half measure of both. In any event, there will be flaws that can fairly easily be exploited by solid opponents in 7-game series.

Now, if they actually land CP3 (although I see this as highly unlikely, given the direction that current CBA negotiations are heading), that could be a game changer.

But then, did they trade for a superstar for the purpose of needing to acquire yet another superstar to be successful?

I agree they need to find a balance between the offense and defense in order to improve the club. I think they will give Mike another yr to see what he can do with the club and then make a decision on whether or not he is the right choice for this team going forward.

I expect them to get Cp3 come hell or high water. The new CBA will have loop holes. It may not be as lenient as this CBA but loop holes will exist like they do in every system.

Chill_Will_24
03-23-2011, 03:32 PM
:confused::confused: If 2004-2010 wasn't rebuilding, then what was it?

rebuilding the rebuilding??? :shrug: :laugh:

NYhighrollaz
03-23-2011, 03:32 PM
:confused::confused: If 2004-2010 wasn't rebuilding, then what was it?

How did they actually rebuild? Maybe the plan was TO rebuild but how could they?

They signed players to big time contracts thanks to poor management and terrible gm actions that caused the Knicks to be irrelevent. Isiah THomas made deals and signed guys like ..Jerome James and Eddy Curry to huge contracts that they couldn't move until they were expiring. They had NO cap room to sign anybody. Exactly what did they do from that period that was considered "rebuilding?"


PS....They traded relatively all their 1st rounders to acquire players that got big contracts.

BigCityofDreams
03-23-2011, 03:32 PM
That's a good start, but you will need a coach that will force his guys to play D. A coach can only do so much, Amare and Melo need to actually play D on the court, which Amare has never done, and melo spottingly over his career.

True they have to buy into playing D. I can't argue with that.

DoMeFavors
03-23-2011, 03:34 PM
How did they actually rebuild? Maybe the plan was TO rebuild but how could they?

They signed players to big time contracts thanks to poor management and terrible gm actions that caused the Knicks to be irrelevent. Isiah THomas made deals and signed guys like ..Jerome James and Eddy Curry to huge contracts that they couldn't move until they were expiring. They had NO cap room to sign anybody. Exactly what did they do from that period that was considered "rebuilding?"


PS....They traded relatively all their 1st rounders to acquire players that got big contracts.

They basically just repeated what they did, they signed players to long contracts, terrible gm actions caused them to trade away their building block players. They have no cap room.

BigCityofDreams
03-23-2011, 03:36 PM
They basically just repeated what they did, they signed players to long contracts, terrible gm actions caused them to trade away their building block players. They have no cap room.

They'll have cap room when it counts in the 2011-2012 season

Pierzynski4Prez
03-23-2011, 03:40 PM
How did they actually rebuild? Maybe the plan was TO rebuild but how could they?

They signed players to big time contracts thanks to poor management and terrible gm actions that caused the Knicks to be irrelevent. Isiah THomas made deals and signed guys like ..Jerome James and Eddy Curry to huge contracts that they couldn't move until they were expiring. They had NO cap room to sign anybody. Exactly what did they do from that period that was considered "rebuilding?"


PS....They traded relatively all their 1st rounders to acquire players that got big contracts.

The started down the right path after the Curry Trade. In 2008, they had their own 1st round picks, and to everybody's surprise, they kept them and worked on developing them like your supposed to. Chandler and Gallo showed flashes of potential and were quality players. The plan was to be able to place them around a superstar in 2010. They even had other guys stepping up out of nowhere (Fields, Mozgov, Felton) that would have been quality role players to put around a superstar.

However, the Knicks only got 1 star and well it translated into a better team, it wasn't instant gold like everybody wanted. So they shipped them all out for another star, which isn't what they should have done. They could have waited till this summer, then added another star while keeping all those role players in place. They would have had a tremendous amount of depth alongside 2 all-stars. Instead they will have an aging PG who is out of place in the current coach's system, 2 stars, and basically nothing after, no picks either.

DoMeFavors
03-23-2011, 03:43 PM
The started down the right path after the Curry Trade. In 2008, they had their own 1st round picks, and to everybody's surprise, they kept them and worked on developing them like your supposed to. Chandler and Gallo showed flashes of potential and were quality players. The plan was to be able to place them around a superstar in 2010. They even had other guys stepping up out of nowhere (Fields, Mozgov, Felton) that would have been quality role players to put around a superstar.

However, the Knicks only got 1 star and well it translated into a better team, it wasn't instant gold like everybody wanted. So they shipped them all out for another star, which isn't what they should have done. They could have waited till this summer, then added another star while keeping all those role players in place. They would have had a tremendous amount of depth alongside 2 all-stars. Instead they will have an aging PG who is out of place in the current coach's system, 2 stars, and basically nothing after, no picks either.

Nobody wanted to go to the Knicks, everyone was saying you guys can play on the biggest stage and get endorsments. Knicks thought they would be the only team with cap space that year and boy were they wrong. They lost out of everyone and overpayed for a guy like Amare that nobody wanted to give that kind of contract to.

Pierzynski4Prez
03-23-2011, 03:44 PM
They'll have cap room when it counts in the 2011-2012 season

It's not nearly as much as most Knick fans realize though. Amare and Melo will take up 40-41 million of the cap in 2012. Add in Douglas and Balkman's contract and your at about 45 million, between 4 players. If the cap drops, which it appears its going to, I would say the Knicks will have about 10-14 million to spread out amongst 8+ guys. And you can't just throw it all at 1 guy, because every roster spot has a cap hold of around half a million. So unless CP3 or Dwight are going to accept contracts slightly above the MLE, they won't be coming to NY. If they are going to settle for that little money, why not sign the MLE in Miami, Chicago, LA?

NYhighrollaz
03-23-2011, 03:47 PM
They basically just repeated what they did, they signed players to long contracts, terrible gm actions caused them to trade away their building block players. They have no cap room.

They didn't repeat what they did. They got well under the cap to sign max players. When they signed players, they weren't well under the cap, and they signed guys who weren't of the caliber of anthony or amar'e.

And if wasn't for Donnie getting ready of the garbage, they wouldn't be anyhere near a position to compete. Now they are about 2 role players away from being a contender.

BigCityofDreams
03-23-2011, 03:47 PM
The started down the right path after the Curry Trade. In 2008, they had their own 1st round picks, and to everybody's surprise, they kept them and worked on developing them like your supposed to. Chandler and Gallo showed flashes of potential and were quality players. The plan was to be able to place them around a superstar in 2010. They even had other guys stepping up out of nowhere (Fields, Mozgov, Felton) that would have been quality role players to put around a superstar.

However, the Knicks only got 1 star and well it translated into a better team, it wasn't instant gold like everybody wanted. So they shipped them all out for another star, which isn't what they should have done. They could have waited till this summer, then added another star while keeping all those role players in place. They would have had a tremendous amount of depth alongside 2 all-stars. Instead they will have an aging PG who is out of place in the current coach's system, 2 stars, and basically nothing after, no picks either.

They had to move on Melo because of the un certainty with the new CBA. It would have been nice to add Melo to the pieces they already had but they thought about making the move because none of them knew what would happen in the summer

Pierzynski4Prez
03-23-2011, 03:48 PM
They didn't repeat what they did. They got well under the cap to sign max players. When they signed players, they weren't well under the cap, and they signed guys who weren't of the caliber of anthony or amar'e.

And if wasn't for Donnie getting ready of the garbage, they wouldn't be anyhere near a position to compete. Now they are about 2 role players away from being a contender.

And a new coach. And a desire to play Defense.

ewmania
03-23-2011, 03:48 PM
NY just loves overpaying overrated guys. Take away Marbury and Francis, add $45 mil of Amare and Melo.

ummm, can i ask you a question lol

how much is iggy making? lmao

Pierzynski4Prez
03-23-2011, 03:50 PM
They had to move on Melo because of the un certainty with the new CBA. It would have been nice to add Melo to the pieces they already had but they thought about making the move because none of them knew what would happen in the summer

I think its the opposite. The Knicks didn't have to move on Melo. He was still going to be a FA, who everyone knew was signing in NY. They would have still been able to sign him for damn near the max. Its Melo who desperately needed to be traded so he could sign the extension prior to the CBA.

Edit: And your GM knew this, and I believe he didn't want to make the trade if what I heard on here is correct, but it was your owner that forced it.

ewmania
03-23-2011, 03:52 PM
They basically just repeated what they did, they signed players to long contracts, terrible gm actions caused them to trade away their building block players. They have no cap room.

i think j james and eddie curry is wayy different from Amare & Melo

amare actually got us in a playoff run, eddy curry didnt

huge difference

BigCityofDreams
03-23-2011, 03:54 PM
It's not nearly as much as most Knick fans realize though. Amare and Melo will take up 40-41 million of the cap in 2012. Add in Douglas and Balkman's contract and your at about 45 million, between 4 players. If the cap drops, which it appears its going to, I would say the Knicks will have about 10-14 million to spread out amongst 8+ guys. And you can't just throw it all at 1 guy, because every roster spot has a cap hold of around half a million. So unless CP3 or Dwight are going to accept contracts slightly above the MLE, they won't be coming to NY. If they are going to settle for that little money, why not sign the MLE in Miami, Chicago, LA?

The thing about the cap dropping is many teams will be over the cap. Some of the best teams in the league like the Lakers, Celtics, and the Heat are over the cap. There is no way those teams are going to break up their clubs. Their has been some thought that the cap might go up and the hard cap might be where the luxury tax is.

Cp3 might take less to play with his boys. He won't play for free but he might take less to play in NY.

Howard might tend up in LA...at least that seems to be the thought with the guys on ESPN.

BigCityofDreams
03-23-2011, 03:57 PM
I think its the opposite. The Knicks didn't have to move on Melo. He was still going to be a FA, who everyone knew was signing in NY. They would have still been able to sign him for damn near the max. Its Melo who desperately needed to be traded so he could sign the extension prior to the CBA.

Edit: And your GM knew this, and I believe he didn't want to make the trade if what I heard on here is correct, but it was your owner that forced it.

Whatever the case may be here's on the team and they had to do the move. Everyone knew this was the plan when Donnie took over. They wanted 2 max guys and they got them. Now they just have build the pieces around them. If Donnie comes back I feel he'll make the right moves. But if he isn't then who knows what happens.

NYhighrollaz
03-23-2011, 03:58 PM
The started down the right path after the Curry Trade. In 2008, they had their own 1st round picks, and to everybody's surprise, they kept them and worked on developing them like your supposed to. Chandler and Gallo showed flashes of potential and were quality players. The plan was to be able to place them around a superstar in 2010. They even had other guys stepping up out of nowhere (Fields, Mozgov, Felton) that would have been quality role players to put around a superstar.

However, the Knicks only got 1 star and well it translated into a better team, it wasn't instant gold like everybody wanted. So they shipped them all out for another star, which isn't what they should have done. They could have waited till this summer, then added another star while keeping all those role players in place. They would have had a tremendous amount of depth alongside 2 all-stars. Instead they will have an aging PG who is out of place in the current coach's system, 2 stars, and basically nothing after, no picks either.



This isn't about what they could have done..maybe one of the main reasons was because they were losing season ticket holders and needed to get a star in here to avoid losing revenue.


Let me explain that the trade wasn't that bad:

Felton is a system player. Where was he in Charlotte? What exactly did he do there that made him good? He came to the Knicks and worked well but was a system player. Guys like that are easy to find in this offense. Look at Toney Douglas.

Mozgov was a project. Guys like that in the nba take forever or just become busts.

Chandler was a fa anyway. He was a very inconsistent player.


Losing gallo was the only thing holding up the deal for me. I wouldn't have done this trade only because of Gallo otherwise it's robbery. But it happened.


The fact is, we have two stars and a very nice role player in landry fields. They just need to build guys around these guys and we'll be fine. This is just kinda more of a media basking event to increase ratings. Nothing more.

NYhighrollaz
03-23-2011, 03:59 PM
And a new coach. And a desire to play Defense.

Again, if you build a team around those guys and use them for certain roles, you can win with any coach.

Hitman21
03-23-2011, 04:00 PM
Ball hogs will never win. Look at Denver since the trade. They haven't needed time to gel.

.

Denver got the whole NY starting line up except amare. And they already had alot of pieces like nene, lawson, smith.

as for ball hogs never win...u ever heard of MJ n kobe?

Tony_Starks
03-23-2011, 04:06 PM
You can't even really evaluate this team until D'Antoni is gone. True Amare and Melo are weak defenders but you could get a legit coach in their that at least demands the most of them defensively. Its not going to be a quick fix they've developed bad habits their entire careers so you can't expect that all to change overnight.

I was really confused as to them not even giving Corey Brewer a shot. You would think that a team as horrible as they are defensively would've jumped at the chance to have an athletic defensive wing that can defend multiple positions.

ewmania
03-23-2011, 04:08 PM
Denver got the whole NY starting line up except amare. And they already had alot of pieces like nene, lawson, smith.

as for ball hogs never win...u ever heard of MJ n kobe?

haha i find it funny he said ball hogs never win

- Michael Jordan
- Kobe
- Bill Russell
- Wilt Chamberlon
- Hakeem Olajuwon

and when playoff time comes, denver will lose two one of them ball hogs in the west.. weather its dirk, kobe, Durant, or Zach. but they losing to one of them Lol

Gormans Mic
03-23-2011, 04:22 PM
Bill Russell was a ball hog? Did I read that correctly? If rebounding and playing defense is being a ball hog then okay....:eyebrow: Russell never averaged more than 18 points a game in any season and wasn't the scorer on those teams. Defense and Rebounded at an extraordinary level.

I agree with what you were saying though, great players have the ball a lot, but the really great ones do that while making everyone around them even better, which everyone on that list does do. Carmelo really hasn't at this level, which surprises me some because he kind of took Syracuse to the NCAA championship as a freshman. NBA is a different animal though.

ewmania
03-23-2011, 05:03 PM
Bill Russell was a ball hog? Did I read that correctly? If rebounding and playing defense is being a ball hog then okay....:eyebrow: Russell never averaged more than 18 points a game in any season and wasn't the scorer on those teams. Defense and Rebounded at an extraordinary level.

I agree with what you were saying though, great players have the ball a lot, but the really great ones do that while making everyone around them even better, which everyone on that list does do. Carmelo really hasn't at this level, which surprises me some because he kind of took Syracuse to the NCAA championship as a freshman. NBA is a different animal though.

any player that holds the ball longer than 10 seconds to me is considered a ball hog, i dont care how much assist they get or how much points they don't score

But i also believe teams need that type of player if they can be productive while doing it. those type of players demand attention

denver is playing good ball right now but have not one player any elite team can't take on, on man to man defense

durant, kevin, kobe, gasol, parker, manu, duncan, roy, gerald wallace, westbrook, zach, gay, chris paul (if unselfish)

nobody can name me any denver nugget player that deserve the amount of attention than the guys I just name

and come playoff time those guys will decide the fate of they teams

EDIT: your right about Melo tho.. but I believe a great coach with a defensive mind that allows him to play point forward he can make it happen. I mean george karl was a good defensive coach but during the days he coached melo all of that kind of went out the window, not even close as his defense he had with the sonics

DenButsu
03-23-2011, 08:43 PM
denver is playing good ball right now but have not one player any elite team can't take on, on man to man defense

durant, kevin, kobe, gasol, parker, manu, duncan, roy, gerald wallace, westbrook, zach, gay, chris paul (if unselfish)

nobody can name me any denver nugget player that deserve the amount of attention than the guys I just name

and come playoff time those guys will decide the fate of they teams

It's true that the Nuggets don't have only individual dominant player. But they have EIGHT players - Nene, J.R., Gallo, Lawson, Chandler, Afflalo, Felton, and Harrington - who are wholly capable of putting up 20+ points on any given night.

Denver is now probably the most difficult team in the league to scout, the hardest team to put a defensive game plan together for, because offensively they can bring it in so many different ways, from so many different players, and there really are no glaring weaknesses.

It's a very unconventional team structure in today's NBA, but I think it has every possibility of proving effective. Really, it already has. Not only their 10-4 record since the trade, but also the extent to which they've dominated the opposition (their average point differential thus far is an incredible 12.3), pretty much speak for themselves.

DenButsu
03-23-2011, 08:49 PM
I agree they need to find a balance between the offense and defense in order to improve the club. I think they will give Mike another yr to see what he can do with the club and then make a decision on whether or not he is the right choice for this team going forward.

I expect them to get Cp3 come hell or high water. The new CBA will have loop holes. It may not be as lenient as this CBA but loop holes will exist like they do in every system.

If there is a hard cap, there most likely will be no exceptions. Nothing about the current trajectory of CBA negotiations is encouraging news for NY's prospects of getting CP3.

BigCityofDreams
03-23-2011, 09:22 PM
If there is a hard cap, there most likely will be no exceptions. Nothing about the current trajectory of CBA negotiations is encouraging news for NY's prospects of getting CP3.

If there is a hard cap many of the top teams will have to dump players just to get under it and there is no way that's going to happen.

DenButsu
03-23-2011, 09:59 PM
If there is a hard cap many of the top teams will have to dump players just to get under it and there is no way that's going to happen.

No, teams would not be forced to "dump" players. The entire existing salary structure would be changed, and maximum salaries would be lowered across the board.

DoMeFavors
03-23-2011, 11:41 PM
Knicks are getting worse and worse day by day. My guess is first round swept exit.

John Walls Era
03-23-2011, 11:53 PM
How was Hakeem a ball hog? Just because he could dominate in the post doesn't make him a ball hog. Why do you think Kenny Smith had all those easy 3s?

DenButsu
03-24-2011, 12:37 AM
Knicks are getting worse and worse day by day. My guess is first round swept exit.

In fairness, I thought they actually played a decent game overall. Their defense was more effortful than in some games, and Melo was sharing the ball well. But Dwight did two huge things: 1) totally took Amare out of the game, and 2) hit 10-12 of his FTs. Not gonna check now, but I think the announcer said Orlando finished going 24-27 from the line. That's huge, and so was their defense. Doesn't mean NYK played a terrible game, but the Magic just played better.

bringinwood
03-24-2011, 03:07 AM
In fairness, I thought they actually played a decent game overall. Their defense was more effortful than in some games, and Melo was sharing the ball well. But Dwight did two huge things: 1) totally took Amare out of the game, and 2) hit 10-12 of his FTs. Not gonna check now, but I think the announcer said Orlando finished going 24-27 from the line. That's huge, and so was their defense. Doesn't mean NYK played a terrible game, but the Magic just played better.


I don't know what game you watched, but I saw a lackluster performance, especially on the defensive side of the ball..

Horrible defense... No hustle or intensity... They didn't run down loose balls while Dwight was in the fourth row to get a ball...

If Amare was the player he is supposed to be, he wouldn't have let Dwight get off like that... Especially when it determined the outcome of the game...

DenButsu
03-24-2011, 03:23 AM
I don't know what game you watched, but I saw a lackluster performance, especially on the defensive side of the ball..

Horrible defense... No hustle or intensity... They didn't run down loose balls

Well, I actually didn't notice that. But maybe I've been watching that style of basketball for so long in Denver that I hardly notice it anymore, or at least it doesn't jump out at me. Maybe I've just grown accustomed, when watching Melo, to watching more the side of the court that he really plays on.

More-Than-Most
03-24-2011, 03:40 AM
:violin:

JayW_1023
03-24-2011, 03:59 AM
Denver>New York

Or better yet...

Balance>Two 'superstars'

Melo really isn't much better than JR Smith or Wilson Chandler. Defensively he certainly isn't.

Yes, I'm aware I'm using those dreaded <=> comparisons again.

championships
03-24-2011, 04:11 AM
Knicks aren't losers yet they're at 500. :D

JayW_1023
03-24-2011, 04:29 AM
I'll proceed to say that Melo looks absolutely ridiculous with ten million arm sleeves, bands and braces. He looks like a mannequin doll. What a joke.

eugene
03-24-2011, 05:10 AM
hopefully they will have a productive summer of adding some more dept to this roster... this season is dead anyway for the Knicks...

Bulls_fan90
03-24-2011, 05:56 AM
Knicks aren't losers yet they're at 500. :D

They're actually at 0.493% ;)

BrooklynBandito
03-24-2011, 08:07 AM
Knick fans have seen their franchise suck for many years, and after getting Melo and Amare they thought they would be good. In the west they wouldnt make the playoffs. So their excuse this time that they are buying into from Knicks is "they need time to gel" haha. Knick fans if you want to keep believing all this crap they keep telling you by all means.

FisolaNYDN: Give Knicks credit. Told fans they’re sacrificing 2 years for LeBron. Now, saying just wait til 2012 & fans are buying it. Pure genius

it was a terrible trade for Knicks, I didnt think that a player wanting out like Carmelo the franchise trading him would actually get better. Knicks franchise is run by amatures.


Well said. :clap:

Evolution23
03-24-2011, 08:34 AM
Denver>New York

Or better yet...

Balance>Two 'superstars'

Melo really isn't much better than JR Smith or Wilson Chandler. Defensively he certainly isn't.

Yes, I'm aware I'm using those dreaded <=> comparisons again.

Bonner > Lebron :rolleyes:

toovey107
03-24-2011, 08:41 AM
Bonner > Lebron :rolleyes:
Yeah, a much more relevant comparison.

nycericanguy
03-24-2011, 09:41 AM
If there is a hard cap many of the top teams will have to dump players just to get under it and there is no way that's going to happen.

From what I've read and heard, if there is a hard cap the cap will go up to around the lux tax level of $73m.

Because if not, pretty much the entire NBA would be over the cap, and if you wanted to lower player salaries to fit under a hard cap players would have to take a MASSIVE paycut, which would be a tough sell to the Players union.

So the realistic way to achieve a hard cap would be slightly lowering player contracts, and setting the cap at $73m or so. Some teams would still be over, but it wouldn't be a case where 75% of the league is over and the great teams have to be broken up. And it would of course be much easier and more reasonable for the teams that were over to get under.

But i don't think the NBA will want to break up the league by imposing a hard cap AND having the cap stay the same. its just not reasonable or in the best interest of the NBA. Even if you cut player contracts 25%, there are still many teams that are over the cap by more than 25%.

BigCityofDreams
03-24-2011, 11:10 AM
No, teams would not be forced to "dump" players. The entire existing salary structure would be changed, and maximum salaries would be lowered across the board.

Is that the Players union would even agree too?

BigCityofDreams
03-24-2011, 11:20 AM
From what I've read and heard, if there is a hard cap the cap will go up to around the lux tax level of $73m.

Because if not, pretty much the entire NBA would be over the cap, and if you wanted to lower player salaries to fit under a hard cap players would have to take a MASSIVE paycut, which would be a tough sell to the Players union.

So the realistic way to achieve a hard cap would be slightly lowering player contracts, and setting the cap at $73m or so. Some teams would still be over, but it wouldn't be a case where 75% of the league is over and the great teams have to be broken up. And it would of course be much easier and more reasonable for the teams that were over to get under.

But i don't think the NBA will want to break up the league by imposing a hard cap AND having the cap stay the same. its just not reasonable or in the best interest of the NBA. Even if you cut player contracts 25%, there are still many teams that are over the cap by more than 25%.

You've have been at the fore front of this cap thing for a while now and I enjoy your posts about it. You made some very good points if they put in a hard cap it's going to hamper the top teams in the league. Despite ppl complaining about the bottom feeders in the league the NBA hasn't been this popular since the Jordan Era and there is no way they want to risk losing what they have gained in the past couple of seasons.

It will be interesting to see how this whole thing plays out.

nycericanguy
03-24-2011, 12:35 PM
You've have been at the fore front of this cap thing for a while now and I enjoy your posts about it. You made some very good points if they put in a hard cap it's going to hamper the top teams in the league. Despite ppl complaining about the bottom feeders in the league the NBA hasn't been this popular since the Jordan Era and there is no way they want to risk losing what they have gained in the past couple of seasons.

It will be interesting to see how this whole thing plays out.

very much so, in either scenario NY should have significant cap space in 2012. Even if we can't sign a 3rd max we can sign a solid player or two and resign guys like Fields & Douglas, which actually might be the best way to go. CP3, MELO & AMARE would look nice, but we'd have alot of holes like MIA to fill and our guys are a year or two older.

As it stands now with their recent slide NY is going to have a borderline lottery pick this season at #16 or 17. So as bad as they look now NY should be much better next season and in 2012.

BigCityofDreams
03-24-2011, 01:05 PM
very much so, in either scenario NY should have significant cap space in 2012. Even if we can't sign a 3rd max we can sign a solid player or two and resign guys like Fields & Douglas, which actually might be the best way to go. CP3, MELO & AMARE would look nice, but we'd have alot of holes like MIA to fill and our guys are a year or two older.

As it stands now with their recent slide NY is going to have a borderline lottery pick this season at #16 or 17. So as bad as they look now NY should be much better next season and in 2012.

I agree the Knicks are in a nice seat going forward. I know the team hasn't played well but they are in a position to improve the team and I expect them to do so.

Punk
03-24-2011, 05:52 PM
I'll tell you this, the rest of the NBA or Heat, Chicago and Boston fans should be scared of Donnie Walsh is still around during the upcoming off-season.

Walsh will make sure to improve this team to compete with the best going forward. We have a mid 1st round pick and Walsh was the guy who selected Douglas at 29th and Fields at 39th. If he can find players that good in the draft, imagine what he could do with this 2011 draft pick and the overseas talent available.

the Knicks are fine going forward and I don't think we are looking into Chris Paul unless he starts to make demands to come here.

We can build a extremely deep team this summer. Call me crazy but I think NY will be the deepest team in the East and one of the top contenders depending on what the cap and how everything goes.

There is not alot of bigs out there for Boston, Miami or Orlando to add. NY has a little more edge in terms of adding players.

Sixerlover
03-24-2011, 06:18 PM
I'll tell you this, the rest of the NBA or Heat, Chicago and Boston fans should be scared of Donnie Walsh is still around during the upcoming off-season.

Walsh will make sure to improve this team to compete with the best going forward. We have a mid 1st round pick and Walsh was the guy who selected Douglas at 29th and Fields at 39th. If he can find players that good in the draft, imagine what he could do with this 2011 draft pick and the overseas talent available.

the Knicks are fine going forward and I don't think we are looking into Chris Paul unless he starts to make demands to come here.

We can build a extremely deep team this summer. Call me crazy but I think NY will be the deepest team in the East and one of the top contenders depending on what the cap and how everything goes.

There is not alot of bigs out there for Boston, Miami or Orlando to add. NY has a little more edge in terms of adding players.

Huh? He has a mid first, the MLE, LLE (if they still exist) and some vet minimum contracts to work with. Exactly how deep do you think he can build a team?

The vets will still go to Miami / Boston over NY, and 9 x out of 10 whoever any team signs with the MLE is a crap player who had a good contract year, on a now bad deal. I don't understand what you think can be done this offseason without the available trade pieces.

Walsh has to get real creative to either
A. Get significant cap space to try and sign the elusive "3rd star" that every Knick fan talks about in 2012
OR
B. Find a way to build a talented defensive roster around the two guys. Either way it's no easy task.

nycericanguy
03-24-2011, 07:31 PM
Huh? He has a mid first, the MLE, LLE (if they still exist) and some vet minimum contracts to work with. Exactly how deep do you think he can build a team?

The vets will still go to Miami / Boston over NY, and 9 x out of 10 whoever any team signs with the MLE is a crap player who had a good contract year, on a now bad deal. I don't understand what you think can be done this offseason without the available trade pieces.

Walsh has to get real creative to either
A. Get significant cap space to try and sign the elusive "3rd star" that every Knick fan talks about in 2012
OR
B. Find a way to build a talented defensive roster around the two guys. Either way it's no easy task.

You can't have the MLE AND the LLE. NY will have the 16th or 17th pick, and vet min contracts to offer. Thats plenty, how else do you want us to get players?...lol. Isn't that what every team uses? And why the assumption that everyone will choose MIA over NY? I mean all the players will choose MIA/BOS over NY? like really? Thats some great insider info u got there...or maybe you're just being a hater? I wonder which it is.

They are not as bad defensively though as people make it seem. When you lack a center it puts pressure on perimeter defenders and causes constant switching. But guys like Fields & Douglas are very good defenders. Amare at PF can be a good defender if he can get some help.

A guy like Robin Lopez could really help NY IMO.

theheatles
03-24-2011, 07:34 PM
not 1 of the 3 heat stars signed an absolute max deal but amare has and melo most certainly will, so if they do get another max(considering chauncey is gone), the knicks remaining roster would make the heats bench look ALL WORLD...plus their current rookies are outplaying their deals so by end of 2012 douglas and fields could be gone