PDA

View Full Version : Didn't the Heat go through the same exact thing as the Knicks now?



NYSpirit1
03-21-2011, 04:23 AM
The Knicks are 7-8 since the Melo trade. The Heat were 9-8 to start the season.

Everybody seems to love to pick on the Knicks right now, from ESPN to this forum. They've essentially taken the heat off the Heat and put it on themselves. The Heat ended up working out the team issues, why can't the Knicks do the same and become a perennial team?

effen5
03-21-2011, 04:26 AM
The Knicks are 7-8 since the Melo trade. The Heat were 9-8 to start the season.

Everybody seems to love to pick on the Knicks right now, from ESPN to this forum. They've essentially taken the heat off the Heat and put it on themselves. The Heat ended up working out the team issues, why can't the Knicks do the same and become a perennial team?

I don't remember Miami losing to the Cavs twice and detroit once. Miami might have a difficult beating good teams, but they dominated bad teams in the beginning of the season and I think everyone is pickin on the Knicks mostly because of the same reason we picked on the Heat....the fans....Its what you guys get for being so damn cocky.

Wade>You
03-21-2011, 04:30 AM
I agree that the Knicks will be a lot better eventually, but I don't think Heat and Knicks problems are very similar. Yours is defense, ours was offense. We also had two of the worst starters in the NBA, and by association, the worst coach in the NBA.

But honestly, don't get caught up in what anyone says. Your team will be scrutinized and picked apart in the Gen NBA forum.

Hawkeye15
03-21-2011, 04:46 AM
yes and no. The 1-2 punch for Miami is so far superior to the 1-2 punch for the Knicks, and the scrutiny was beyond ridiculous for Miami.

The Knicks have a lot farther to go than Miami. But at least they have the resources to do so, which Miami may not after the new CBA

shep33
03-21-2011, 04:47 AM
Knicks will get better over time... but lets be honest, the big 3 they have now isn't as good as that one in Miami, and even though Miami's supporting cast has taken hits, they are still better than that of the Knicks.

New York needs some time to get everybody on the same page, and get some role players on that team. Next season (if there isn't a lockout), I expect them to add some key pieces.

heathonater
03-21-2011, 04:55 AM
new york still has alot of pieces to add to become one of the top teams in the east. the main flaw with this knicks team right now is that they are a poor defensive team. melo has never been a good defender and amare isnt a great defender as well. there will be alot of pressure on dantoni to get his team to play d each night, because the knicks front office and fans will expect better results now.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-21-2011, 05:54 AM
no

I'm sorry but Melo is nowhere near the level of Wade or LeBron

stawka
03-21-2011, 06:05 AM
Everyone seems to love to pick on the Knicks now? Are you *********g serious lmao. There was a thread for every shot LeBron missed, for every frown on Wade's face, for every rebound Bosh gave up, for every little thing they did wrong. The Knicks are getting NO hate compared to Miami

effen5
03-21-2011, 06:12 AM
no

I'm sorry but Melo is nowhere near the level of Wade or LeBron

BTW, I still don't understand your Sig...meaning I don't understand what happened. Melo didn't get hit, touched, or even tripped....was he just acting like a ***** and laying down?

oak2455
03-21-2011, 06:18 AM
no

I'm sorry but Melo is nowhere near the level of Wade or LeBron

Your just a Knick hater its pretty funny reading a few post then yours....a lot of insight...that being said I think its a few things
1. Could need time to gel as a unit
2. Need some bigs some guys who can play d
3.I think we need a def. Assistant coach or new head coach
We shall see too short of timeframe too tell

Cano4prez
03-21-2011, 06:23 AM
Miami plays defense

Knicks21
03-21-2011, 06:36 AM
I would prefer to loose every game for the rest of the season, and get swept in the playoffs. Put more pressure of the front office to do something, because this roster, and coach would do anything good in the future. Miami had there struggles, but i know our struggles are much greater. Need to find a way to get some defense up in here, only way we can do that if every team scores 110+ on us for the rest of the season, then maybe changes will be made. Next season, i hope to get down to biz.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-21-2011, 06:42 AM
Your just a Knick hater its pretty funny reading a few post then yours....a lot of insight...that being said I think its a few things
1. Could need time to gel as a unit
2. Need some bigs some guys who can play d
3.I think we need a def. Assistant coach or new head coach
We shall see too short of timeframe too tell

I'm not a knicks hater
they are actually my 2nd favourite team, but I dont like Melo.

And it just blows my mind how walsh gave up half of his team for overrated "superstar".

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-21-2011, 06:43 AM
BTW, I still don't understand your Sig...meaning I don't understand what happened. Melo didn't get hit, touched, or even tripped....was he just acting like a ***** and laying down?

he got hit in the head I believe

Knicks21
03-21-2011, 06:45 AM
I'm not a knicks hater
they are actually my 2nd favourite team, but I dont like Melo.

And it just blows my mind how walsh gave up half of his team for overrated "superstar".

You can find Role players anywhere in the NBA.
Melo can lead a team deep into the Playoffs.
Melo + Stoudemire + Billups (maybe not part of long term plans) is a better core to build around than Amare + Chandler (Was not likely part of long term plans) + Gallo + Felton.

JARVIS123
03-21-2011, 07:46 AM
The Knicks are 7-8 since the Melo trade. The Heat were 9-8 to start the season.

Everybody seems to love to pick on the Knicks right now, from ESPN to this forum. They've essentially taken the heat off the Heat and put it on themselves. The Heat ended up working out the team issues, why can't the Knicks do the same and become a perennial team?

don't feel bad now because it's your team being criticized.when the heat was going thru their crisis the media and fans including knicks fans stayed on the heat back.now that we are doing good all that tough talk quiet down.the knicks are going thru what we got over.

yankkiller
03-21-2011, 07:47 AM
here is the difference the knicks are one man shy of a big three of their own, but they also have the opertunity not to screw them selves over and lock up 3 players for alot of money and be able to sign more then one guy to run wit melo and amare

but over all this is what i would do in the offseason 1 resign melo long term, and sign the following:

T.J. Ford, Jason Richardson, Mike Dunleavy,

PG Billiups
SG Richardson
SF Melo
PF Amare
C Ronny Turiaf

Bench
PG Ford
SG Fields
G Douglas
G/F Dunleavy
F Balkman
F/C Jeffries
F/C Shelden Williams

or if the want to go small

PG Billiups
SG Richardson
SF Dunleavy
PF Melo
C Amare

JARVIS123
03-21-2011, 08:03 AM
this what happens when you get rid of players that not only fit with that system but had a big role in it.felton good defense, penetrate pass floor general.galo stretch the floor with his three point shooting plus take you off the dribble.chandler mister do a lil bit of every thing(gerald wallace type).melo iso scoring machine no defense nothing else to help others get involved.billups still a solid point guard just a step or 2 slower.

TO to the CHI
03-21-2011, 08:06 AM
here is the difference the knicks are one man shy of a big three of their own, but they also have the opertunity not to screw them selves over and lock up 3 players for alot of money and be able to sign more then one guy to run wit melo and amare

but over all this is what i would do in the offseason 1 resign melo long term, and sign the following:

T.J. Ford, Jason Richardson, Mike Dunleavy



So your solution to a terrible defense is to sign three more lousy defenders. The Knicks would scarcely improve if at all with those moves and wouldn't be able to stop anyone. They need to bring some guys who can defend, at least as role players, in order to succeed. They already have plenty of firepower.

As to the topic, I think the Heat got far more hate, but the biggest difference that I can see is that the Heat's problems relating to gelling, whereas the Knicks' problems seem to relate to a complete inability to play defense.

Atownballa5
03-21-2011, 08:18 AM
i don't remember miami losing to the cavs twice and detroit once. Miami might have a difficult beating good teams, but they dominated bad teams in the beginning of the season and i think everyone is pickin on the knicks mostly because of the same reason we picked on the heat....the fans....its what you guys get for being so damn cocky.

+10000000

mttwlsn16
03-21-2011, 08:39 AM
I don't remember Miami losing to the Cavs twice and detroit once. Miami might have a difficult beating good teams, but they dominated bad teams in the beginning of the season and I think everyone is pickin on the Knicks mostly because of the same reason we picked on the Heat....the fans....Its what you guys get for being so damn cocky.

BINGO

and knicks gave up their whole team for melo

mttwlsn16
03-21-2011, 08:51 AM
no

I'm sorry but Melo is nowhere near the level of Wade or LeBron

ys he is

PhillyFaninLA
03-21-2011, 08:57 AM
I agree these thing take time, but I've said before that I don't think Melo or Amare are winners. I think both guys are great and borderline HOF'ers but there are certain players that don't win it all.

There is a reason Phoenix despite all world talent a few years ago never won the finals and there is a reason T.O. and Randy Moss never won a superbowl. Melo and Amare are great players and great stat guys, I think ultimately the Knicks may become flashy and may make ECF's down the road but I don't think you win titles with selfish offensive minded players that don't sacrifice for those around them (I don't think Melo is as selfish though).

Lebron led garbage to the finals, and great records year after year, and Wade won it all. Both are adjusting to each other a bit (Lebron a bit less then Wade) and it looks like Bosh is starting to figure it out. I don't compare the Knicks and Heat because the situations and players are difference, Lebron and Wade are both top 5 players and neither Amare or Melo is.

Greet
03-21-2011, 09:00 AM
Knicks are basically a lesser version of the heat on all cylinders.

icon1914
03-21-2011, 09:07 AM
here is the difference the knicks are one man shy of a big three of their own, but they also have the opertunity not to screw them selves over and lock up 3 players for alot of money and be able to sign more then one guy to run wit melo and amare

but over all this is what i would do in the offseason 1 resign melo long term, and sign the following:

T.J. Ford, Jason Richardson, Mike Dunleavy,

PG Billiups
SG Richardson
SF Melo
PF Amare
C Ronny Turiaf

Bench
PG Ford
SG Fields
G Douglas
G/F Dunleavy
F Balkman
F/C Jeffries
F/C Shelden Williams

or if the want to go small

PG Billiups
SG Richardson
SF Dunleavy
PF Melo
C Amare

How do we sign three players and still have Billups? With his team option, something we'd have to decline, we are pretty much capped out until 2012.

And scoring is not the problem, defense is... None of the guys you mentioned play a lick of D. The Knicks also need an interior defender that can grab boards.

Bottom line is the Knicks are missing some main pieces, and it will not be the easiest thing to fill those spots. We might get lucky in the draft and get some help, but I tend to not put a lot of faith in rookies. If we decline on Billups, then we could go after a big, but there are no real game changers in free agency... And we would be giving the keys to TD... Not sure if he is ready to drive.

We options, but the wrong choice could cost us big time. Choices.

TO to the CHI
03-21-2011, 09:27 AM
ys he is

The use of "nowhere near" seems to be an exaggeration. But I can't imagine anyone would actually rather have Melo over LBJ or Wade (at least right now). If the argument is that Melo is younger and less risky than Wade healthwise, I can see it, but Wade is definitely better, it is just a matter of how much better. There really isn't a comparison between LBJ and Melo.

Heater4life
03-21-2011, 09:29 AM
The Knicks are 7-8 since the Melo trade. The Heat were 9-8 to start the season.

Everybody seems to love to pick on the Knicks right now, from ESPN to this forum. They've essentially taken the heat off the Heat and put it on themselves. The Heat ended up working out the team issues, why can't the Knicks do the same and become a perennial team?

No chance! As soon as the Heat struggle its a firestorm, its no where near the same scolding.

That being said, the Knicks need time just as the Heat did. They have talent so they'll be fine. Its just harder for them to mesh, remember the Heat had all off-season/season to mesh and we STILL see this team reinventing themselves and refining there game. Knicks will be fine, and i cant wait for another NY-MIA rivalry!

KnicksorBust
03-21-2011, 09:35 AM
I agree these thing take time, but I've said before that I don't think Melo or Amare are winners. I think both guys are great and borderline HOF'ers but there are certain players that don't win it all.

There is a reason Phoenix despite all world talent a few years ago never won the finals and there is a reason T.O. and Randy Moss never won a superbowl. Melo and Amare are great players and great stat guys, I think ultimately the Knicks may become flashy and may make ECF's down the road but I don't think you win titles with selfish offensive minded players that don't sacrifice for those around them (I don't think Melo is as selfish though).

Lebron led garbage to the finals, and great records year after year, and Wade won it all. Both are adjusting to each other a bit (Lebron a bit less then Wade) and it looks like Bosh is starting to figure it out. I don't compare the Knicks and Heat because the situations and players are difference, Lebron and Wade are both top 5 players and neither Amare or Melo is.

Melo and Amar'e have both made it to the conference finals and yet they aren't winners. Ever think of adjusting your standards a little bit? :rolleyes:

allSUAVE
03-21-2011, 09:36 AM
A whole bunch of haters on this site never mind them. :facepalm:

The knicks is no wear near a finish product and it does take time.

If your impatient expect to be disappointed.

allSUAVE
03-21-2011, 09:38 AM
No chance! As soon as the Heat struggle its a firestorm, its no where near the same scolding.

That being said, the Knicks need time just as the Heat did. They have talent so they'll be fine. Its just harder for them to mesh, remember the Heat had all off-season/season to mesh and we STILL see this team reinventing themselves and refining there game. Knicks will be fine, and i cant wait for another NY-MIA rivalry!

Cant wait. the Future = the heat, Knicks ,OKC and bulls

SteBO
03-21-2011, 09:39 AM
I guess I'll be the first here to say that the Knicks will be a top 3/4 team in the east next season. BOS is expected to fall off, leaving the door open for the Knicks in my opinion. Anyone who expected the Knicks do anything of major significance at this point was only fooling themselves. It takes time guys.

blahblahyoutoo
03-21-2011, 09:41 AM
I don't remember Miami losing to the Cavs twice and detroit once. Miami might have a difficult beating good teams, but they dominated bad teams in the beginning of the season and I think everyone is pickin on the Knicks mostly because of the same reason we picked on the Heat....the fans....Its what you guys get for being so damn cocky.

exactly.
the heat were losing to the elites of the league while feasting on the sub 500's.
the knicks can't beat some of the worst teams in the league with a "top 5 player".
now all of a sudden it's the coach's fault.


at what point do you call the melo acquisition a failure?

John Walls Era
03-21-2011, 09:42 AM
And knicks fans were giving it to the heat fans.... I wouldnt even compare them, Heat always played D consistently. Im going to enjoy this for now since they will probably improve next year.

blahblahyoutoo
03-21-2011, 09:43 AM
You can find Role players anywhere in the NBA.
Melo can lead a team deep into the Playoffs.
Melo + Stoudemire + Billups (maybe not part of long term plans) is a better core to build around than Amare + Chandler (Was not likely part of long term plans) + Gallo + Felton.

the way they're playing now, melo is having trouble leading them INTO the playoffs.
lets face it, melo is not a good match for stat, d'antoni's system, and hence, the knicks.

blahblahyoutoo
03-21-2011, 09:46 AM
Melo and Amar'e have both made it to the conference finals and yet they aren't winners. Ever think of adjusting your standards a little bit? :rolleyes:

d'antoni coached the team to the conf finals too, yet all the ny fans want his head.

lets face it, amare lead the team to the finals as much as nash and dantoni did.

just like what karl, billups did for the nuggets. those were much better constructed teams than what the knicks have now cuz they gave up the farm for melo.

KnicksorBust
03-21-2011, 09:48 AM
I guess I'll be the first here to say that the Knicks will be a top 3/4 team in the east next season. BOS is expected to fall off, leaving the door open for the Knicks in my opinion. Anyone who expected the Knicks do anything of major significance at this point was only fooling themselves. It takes time guys.

Both the Heat and Knicks will take significant step forward after another offseason. The Heat have a nice little headstart filling in the holes in the rotation while the Knicks flaws are abundantly clear by the fact that they are starting guys like Jared Jeffries and Shelden Williams.

oak2455
03-21-2011, 09:50 AM
I'm not a knicks hater
they are actually my 2nd favourite team, but I dont like Melo.

And it just blows my mind how walsh gave up half of his team for overrated "superstar".

I mean that's your opinion which is cool .. I don't think they gave up too much except for Mozzy I think that hurt us a lot...we need size and he was playing better

allSUAVE
03-21-2011, 09:51 AM
The Knicks is not a finish product ,we are the future, but as of right now we are handicap. So I'll leave it to you PSD guys to do your jobs and criticize all you like! Have a nice day.

king4day
03-21-2011, 09:53 AM
This is nothing like what the Heat went through. NY isn't able to score at times and defend at others. The fact that they're losing to 3 average to below average teams just shows they are lost right now.

The best thing to come of the trade is that they were able to start builing a chemistry early because they would have had this problem next season.

KnicksorBust
03-21-2011, 10:00 AM
d'antoni coached the team to the conf finals too, yet all the ny fans want his head.

lets face it, amare lead the team to the finals as much as nash and dantoni did.

just like what karl, billups did for the nuggets. those were much better constructed teams than what the knicks have now cuz they gave up the farm for melo.

Their depth is terrible. RIGHT NOW. But that won't last long. Look at how the Celtics and Heat built their benches from basically scratch in 1 season and competed. They got to build their chemistry from the start. The Knicks are doing this all mid-season. I knew there'd be growing pains. Hell we started the season 3-8 before we "gave up the farm." Billups-Fields-Melo-Amar'e and Mike D'Antoni is a strong enough top 4 and coach to win +50 games. Fill in the right pieces and stay healthy and you got a title contender.

BigCityofDreams
03-21-2011, 10:01 AM
The Knicks are 7-8 since the Melo trade. The Heat were 9-8 to start the season.

Everybody seems to love to pick on the Knicks right now, from ESPN to this forum. They've essentially taken the heat off the Heat and put it on themselves. The Heat ended up working out the team issues, why can't the Knicks do the same and become a perennial team?

Exactly both clubs struggled when it came to the stars of the team playing together. No one is saying the Knicks are on the level of the Heat. It's just a comparison on how the Knicks struggled like the Heat did. I agree with you about that.

PhillyFaninLA
03-21-2011, 10:07 AM
Melo and Amar'e have both made it to the conference finals and yet they aren't winners. Ever think of adjusting your standards a little bit? :rolleyes:

Did you read in what you quoted where I said in what you quoted and not sure read all of, where I said you don't win titles with certain types of players.

I think you read 1 sentence and commented.

Q_bully
03-21-2011, 10:07 AM
Idk man Knicks need a center I think I see them getting outrebounded by 10 everygame. Probably that's what they need.

NYKSpiritBomb
03-21-2011, 10:17 AM
BINGO

and knicks gave up their whole team for melo

not all of us knick fans expected them to be good immediately, it was a long term move

Crackadalic
03-21-2011, 10:22 AM
Our starting center is freaking Jered Jefferies who weighs 10 lbs. Our defense has actually been solid the last 3 games but we are playing too much iso basketball for some reason. The majority of us knick fans know it isnt gonna be easy and that were probably out the 1st round. I just want the team to play more as a team and at least play respectable defense come playoff time. This summer is when we get to fix the glaring holes we have

blahblahyoutoo
03-21-2011, 10:26 AM
Exactly both clubs struggled when it came to the stars of the team playing together. No one is saying the Knicks are on the level of the Heat. It's just a comparison on how the Knicks struggled like the Heat did. I agree with you about that.

there's a pretty stark difference between struggling against winning teams like boston, orlando, chicago versus detroit, cleveland, indiana.

when you have 2 of the "top 10 players" in the league playing together, you would expect to handily beat the dregs of league, regardless of amount of time needed to build chemistry, agree?

Heater4life
03-21-2011, 10:32 AM
I think the Melo aquisition was great. No team can build around depth, you aquire premier talent, then build around it. Its not vice versa.

Heres a thought now that were using the Heat as a measuring stick of sorts to figure out how this "should" work. The Miami Heat are an organization that prides itself on defense. Although some players may be defensively inept, in a rigid defensive structure with emphasis on help defense and crisp rotation, even the least defensive minded player can thrive. On offense the Heat were allowed to improvise, to get a feel for each others games. Then later the coaching staff began to implement offensive sets based on players comfort with each other and on their observations of what was working in these imrovisations.

Now in the Knicks case defense is not at a premium, thats known, but there offense is very structured. Do you think there offensive system is like the Heats defense, where they dont neccesarily need the most talented players but more system specific players? Does this hinder the team as Melo's abilities with Amare may not coincide with the system specific roles?

I honestly believe that might be part of the issue as the great players arent being given the freelancing ability to become accustomed with one another. They are learning how to play within a system as opposed to playing their natural game and finding their niche.

Whats your opinion on my theory?

BigCityofDreams
03-21-2011, 10:38 AM
there's a pretty stark difference between struggling against winning teams like boston, orlando, chicago versus detroit, cleveland, indiana.

when you have 2 of the "top 10 players" in the league playing together, you would expect to handily beat the dregs of league, regardless of amount of time needed to build chemistry, agree?

True they should be beating the dreads of the league and since they aren't it probably has more to do with motivation than anything else. This is the same knick team that lost to the Cavs and then turned around and beat the Heat.

Slimsim
03-21-2011, 10:54 AM
We need to play defense Having shawne Williams play center is a ****ing joke. If we can steal doc river maybe

mttwlsn16
03-21-2011, 10:59 AM
The use of "nowhere near" seems to be an exaggeration. But I can't imagine anyone would actually rather have Melo over LBJ or Wade (at least right now). If the argument is that Melo is younger and less risky than Wade healthwise, I can see it, but Wade is definitely better, it is just a matter of how much better. There really isn't a comparison between LBJ and Melo.

ya, not saying he is at the level of them, but to say nowhere near is ********. hes just a notch below, and imo its bc of defense. melo can score as well as anyone

Sly Guy
03-21-2011, 11:00 AM
they did, but they'll be subject to the same speculation and bashing that the heat were. If not by the PSD posters, then by the NYC media.

mavwar53
03-21-2011, 11:10 AM
Miami plays defense

This, if NY actually played D then I could understand the comparison but we are not comparing the same thing. The knicks will try to outscore you based purely on offense, the heat have a mix and when the heat focus on it, they play some great D, well at least LBJ and Wade do. D'Antoni doesn't focus on D or at least have a good defensive game plan while Spolstra as whiny as he is, he has competence when it comes to D.

AIRMAR72
03-21-2011, 11:11 AM
[QUOTE=JARVIS123;17184927]this what happens when you get rid of players that not only fit with that system but had a big role in it.felton good defense, penetrate pass floor general.galo stretch the floor with his three point shooting plus take you off the dribble.chandler mister do a lil bit of every thing(gerald wallace type).melo iso scoring machine no defense nothing else to help others get involved.billups still a solid point guard just a step or 2 slower.[/i
i agree furthermore BRON and wade are pass 1st type MELO AND AMARE are the ima take this shot type thats why without a PG like felton its going to take knicks longer knicks to me where a better team with da guys they traded for melo

nickdymez
03-21-2011, 11:35 AM
yes and no. The 1-2 punch for Miami is so far superior to the 1-2 punch for the Knicks, and the scrutiny was beyond ridiculous for Miami.

The Knicks have a lot farther to go than Miami. But at least they have the resources to do so, which Miami may not after the new CBA

I wouldn't go as far as to say "far superior". Lebron and Wade had a whole off season to work with each other. If your talking skills wise only, i still wouldn't say "far superior". I would say a slight upgrade is a better choice of words..

BigCityofDreams
03-21-2011, 11:38 AM
We need to play defense Having shawne Williams play center is a ****ing joke. If we can steal doc river maybe

i can see Doc coaching this team down the line.

Hoopsadvocate
03-21-2011, 12:07 PM
The Knicks are 7-8 since the Melo trade. The Heat were 9-8 to start the season.

Everybody seems to love to pick on the Knicks right now, from ESPN to this forum. They've essentially taken the heat off the Heat and put it on themselves. The Heat ended up working out the team issues, why can't the Knicks do the same and become a perennial team?

Because of a couple of differences i will list. And btw NY isnt getting it nearly as bad as miami as there were like 3-5 threads being made in here.

1.Miami lost close games i believe 5 points or less and to playoff and very good teams during that 9-8 stretch (boston,NO,memphis,etc) Meanwhile NY loses cant beat bottom feaders like cavs and detroit.

2. Miamis problem was more offensive movement meanwhile the reason knicks lose is they dont play defense.

3. We added players to edit our lineup as we didnt have miller, bibby, or damp who both start now. Meanwhile NY is stuck with what they have.

Hoopsadvocate
03-21-2011, 12:09 PM
I wouldn't go as far as to say "far superior". Lebron and Wade had a whole off season to work with each other. If your talking skills wise only, i still wouldn't say "far superior". I would say a slight upgrade is a better choice of words..

:facepalm: why do u speak of things u have no clue about. Wade got injured during the preseason and didnt get to play with anyone till the home opener in boston.

justinnum1
03-21-2011, 12:11 PM
The knicks have MAJOR problems, forget about the fact they play no defense. Or that they lost to the cavs twice. Or that their coach seems clueless. They lack effort. They don't do the necessary things to win. Seeing amare standing around instead of going after rebounds is pathetic. Melo needs to get his teammates involved more. And billups is an avg PG in this league...since when is he good enough to be considered part of a big 3?

The heat have a great defensive system, that keeps them in games when the offense isn't working. It just takes time. And the talent on the heat is far greater than on the knicks.

This is definitely a transition year for the knicks, they will be dominant after this season, but they need a new coach and the players need to make a serious commitment to playing hard and playing defense.

Da Knicks
03-21-2011, 12:29 PM
LOL Love the hate, the knicks will get it together but they need a good center to rebound and play defense. A new coach would also help D'antoni is garbage.

oak2455
03-21-2011, 12:57 PM
LOL Love the hate, the knicks will get it together but they need a good center to rebound and play defense. A new coach would also help D'antoni is garbage.

I totally agree coaching in any sport is HUGE anyone who thinks otherwise is lost....not going to respond to the Heat fan who thinks his team is surpurior and cant beat the better teams ....See Chicago, LA Lakers, and Boston:eyebrow:

nickdymez
03-21-2011, 02:41 PM
:facepalm: why do u speak of things u have no clue about. Wade got injured during the preseason and didnt get to play with anyone till the home opener in boston.

I guess you cant read. I said OFFSEASON Not the second game of the PRESEASON. They still went to training camp, they still worked out with each other before the PRESEASON even started. Know basketball before you facepalm me little girl

John Walls Era
03-21-2011, 02:45 PM
I'm on the market Knicks executives. Either sign me as a 6 foot combo guard or make me the HC.

Evolution23
03-21-2011, 03:06 PM
WHat did u idiots expect? 10-0 with no chemistry. It takes time to build a team the right way. People got not patience these days. But just wait until next season all u idiots will be riding on the Knicks bandwagon.

HuRRiCaNeS324
03-21-2011, 03:17 PM
First of all, the hate towards the Knicks is pretty bad, but nowhere near the level the HEAT have and still have.

Second of all, our problems are different, the Knicks defense is horrendous and thats the most important aspect of a team. Their defense is the reason why they can lose to any team in the league.

nycsports2
03-21-2011, 03:19 PM
Yep exactly thats y when the heat were suckin it up i didnt say a word even though i hate them so much not cuz the big 3 now but cuz im a knicks fan since the 90s and live in sofl so it never died to me... The knicks will get back on track just like the heat did but they wont be legit contenders for another yr or 2

HuRRiCaNeS324
03-21-2011, 03:20 PM
WHat did u idiots expect? 10-0 with no chemistry. It takes time to build a team the right way. People got not patience these days. But just wait until next season all u idiots will be riding on the Knicks bandwagon.

If you guys still have D'antoni and don't beef up the depth at least a little, it wont change much tbh. Offensively the Knicks are straight and will eventually be great, but when you allow 115 PPG its hard to win. By now the players shouldn't have such bad cohesiveness on D.

Big Zo
03-21-2011, 03:26 PM
I see the Knicks at best becoming the Phoenix Suns of the mid 2000's. The lack of defense will keep them from reaching the next level.

JayW_1023
03-21-2011, 03:30 PM
Say about the Heat what you want, but when motivated they will play great defense. The only one who plays D with the Knicks is Landry Fields, but he doesn't get any help because all Melo and STAT think about is the next scoring opportunity.

Denver is flat out the better team now.

Chronz
03-21-2011, 03:31 PM
The Knicks are 7-8 since the Melo trade. The Heat were 9-8 to start the season.

Everybody seems to love to pick on the Knicks right now, from ESPN to this forum. They've essentially taken the heat off the Heat and put it on themselves. The Heat ended up working out the team issues, why can't the Knicks do the same and become a perennial team?

Because they didnt go through the same thing, look beyond simple team records and focus on the EFFICIENCY of the 2 teams.

Chronz
03-21-2011, 03:32 PM
yes and no. The 1-2 punch for Miami is so far superior to the 1-2 punch for the Knicks, and the scrutiny was beyond ridiculous for Miami.

The Knicks have a lot farther to go than Miami. But at least they have the resources to do so, which Miami may not after the new CBA

Resources? Knicks are paying almost as much for their Big 2 as Miami is for their Big 3

Hawkeye15
03-21-2011, 03:35 PM
Resources? Knicks are paying almost as much for their Big 2 as Miami is for their Big 3

I only meant the Knicks payroll will be $20 million less if they decide to clear all available contracts this summer.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
03-21-2011, 03:45 PM
BTW, I still don't understand your Sig...meaning I don't understand what happened. Melo didn't get hit, touched, or even tripped....was he just acting like a ***** and laying down?

No he sufferd a mild concussion that game. So try to find another way to be an azzhole

RCarlson85
03-21-2011, 03:59 PM
No, because the Knicks are losing to ****** teams, the Cavs twice, the pistons, and the bucks. The Heat have only lost to two teams below .500 all season but the Knicks have done it 4 times just since getting Melo.

DoMeFavors
03-21-2011, 04:25 PM
Please dont compare a great team like Miami too the Knicks, Miami has a top 3 defense and two of the top three players in the game. Miami has no bench unlike the Knicks. Knicks play no defense is their problem. Miami didnt lose to Cavaliers TWICE!

Team*Chicago
03-21-2011, 04:34 PM
ESPN always pick on a team after they ride their c---.
I don't think the heat went through th samething, during their losing lifespan they stayed above .500 and won the majority of the games while they were losing. On the otherhand the Knicks has been below .500 and they were worrying about aquiring Carmelo instead of playing the season.

Tony_Starks
03-21-2011, 05:45 PM
The Heat have the ability to lock teams up for different stretches during the game. The Knicks are fundamentally screwed up starting with the coach.

Arch Stanton
03-21-2011, 06:02 PM
You could say the Heat are still going through similar issues. It was only a couple of weeks ago that we were hearing about CryGate, and the Heat's five game losing streak to top level teams. However, I think the Heat are probably in a better position than the Knicks right now.

CowboysKB24
03-22-2011, 12:54 AM
The Knicks are 7-8 since the Melo trade. The Heat were 9-8 to start the season.

Everybody seems to love to pick on the Knicks right now, from ESPN to this forum. They've essentially taken the heat off the Heat and put it on themselves. The Heat ended up working out the team issues, why can't the Knicks do the same and become a perennial team?

The Heat got criticized and picked on much worse than the NYKs. It didn't stop until they changed their ways. When the NYKs do that it will stop. They deserve what they are getting. They need to step up their game.

CowboysKB24
03-22-2011, 12:56 AM
The Heat have the ability to lock teams up for different stretches during the game. The Knicks are fundamentally screwed up starting with the coach.

Mike D'antoni is the worst possible coach for the NYKs IMO. They don't have a problem with offense. They need a defensive minded coach. NYKs are going to turn into the 2006 Phoenix Suns at best unless they get a different coach.

cubswin25
03-22-2011, 01:03 AM
The Knicks are 7-8 since the Melo trade. The Heat were 9-8 to start the season.

Everybody seems to love to pick on the Knicks right now, from ESPN to this forum. They've essentially taken the heat off the Heat and put it on themselves. The Heat ended up working out the team issues, why can't the Knicks do the same and become a perennial team?

Nope the Heat were actually losing to good teams during that stretch. They weren't losing twice to the Cavs, Pacers and against the Bucks or Pistons. Just be realistic the Knicks are a average team aren't going anywhere this season. They don't play defense, don't have size or rebound and have no depth. You can't win the NBA without those things, let alone all of those things. I dunno why some Knicks fans can't see that. They are playing at the level they are capable of playing, plain and simple. 10, 20 or 100 games isn't going to make this group of guys that much better together.

BallIsAll
03-22-2011, 01:07 AM
maybe the heat had problems and the knicks just arent good? wade, lebron, bosh are way better than stat & melo. i mean like come on wade & lebron are tops in defending their position and ummm well lets just say stat & melo are not.

jzero
03-22-2011, 01:29 AM
You can find Role players anywhere in the NBA.
Melo can lead a team deep into the Playoffs.
Melo + Stoudemire + Billups (maybe not part of long term plans) is a better core to build around than Amare + Chandler (Was not likely part of long term plans) + Gallo + Felton.

melo can lead a DEFENSIVE team deep
even then, he's never even reached the finals

What?
03-22-2011, 01:43 AM
Melo and Amar'e have both made it to the conference finals and yet they aren't winners. Ever think of adjusting your standards a little bit? :rolleyes:

Thats a weak argument, with the amount of talent some of those suns teams had its a travesty they never even made it to the NBA finals


Carmelo beat NO and Dallas 2 teams notorious for choking in the playoffs. How can you be a proven winner when you've never won a championship those are contradictions:facepalm:

ElMarroAfamado
03-22-2011, 03:11 AM
Carmelo > Lebrick

Melo has a career in the NBA once his athleticism ceases..and he doesnt rely on dunking or layups as 99% of his game.

nightBULL
03-22-2011, 03:24 AM
Carmelo > Lebrick

Melo has a career in the NBA once his athleticism ceases..and he doesnt rely on dunking or layups as 99% of his game.

You think Lebron's passing and shooting abilities are just going to dissappear too?

Even if that were to happen, your argument would be that Melo is better than Lebron because he became better than him when Bron was old and incapable.

In that case, Ben Gordon>T-Mac because McGrady can't dunk anymore.

Raph12
03-22-2011, 03:43 AM
CP3 will connect the dots in 2012...

Storch
03-22-2011, 04:03 AM
It takes time to gel as a team, at least they're not completely tanking. :shrug:

UKblazers
03-22-2011, 04:37 AM
No Miami problems were offensively I'm terms of spacing and turnovers,knicks problems expectedly have been defensively. I think next year they could be a top 4 seed but considering combined amare and melo make as much as the 3 in Miami I don't know how much.better they can get.

setman2000
03-22-2011, 05:13 AM
First time poster:

For people saying the Heat had it worse than the Knicks now, maybe thats because they held their victory party counting all their rings before they had ever played a game together!

As far as all this Knicks just need to gel and learn to play together, interesting how the Nuggets have had NO PROBLEM learning to play together even though they added 5 new players!

I live in Denver, grew up on the Nuggets, and had season tickets the first 5 years of Melo's career here. He won a lot of games for us and rejuvinated the Nuggets along with some other solid role players. Having said that, there are 2 things about Melo that are undeniable: 1) He's a ball stopper 2) He won't commit to Defense for an entire game.

Watching these new look Nuggets share the ball, fly around on defense and hustle for 48 minutes a game has been AWESOME!!! Even in their loses they have shown a competitiveness that keeps them in the game against top NBA teams.

Bye-Bye Melo and thank you Knicks for giving the Nuggets a shot at a future and getting out of the 1st round of the playoffs! Watching the Knicks lose to the worst teams in the NBA over and over has been GREAT!

Nuggets 10-4 post Melo

Knicks 7-9 with Melo

LOVE IT!

flclfanman
03-22-2011, 05:31 AM
CP3 will connect the dots in 2012...

Doesn't matter how many superstars a team has if they don't play defense

Evolution23
03-22-2011, 09:42 AM
Melo won the national title in college with cuse. He got lucky there.
Then we went to Western Conference Finals. That was luck too.
Amare went to the conference finals too. All the Knicks players just keep getting lucky. They will never be winners.

Evolution23
03-22-2011, 09:45 AM
You think Lebron's passing and shooting abilities are just going to dissappear too?

Even if that were to happen, your argument would be that Melo is better than Lebron because he became better than him when Bron was old and incapable.

In that case, Ben Gordon>T-Mac because McGrady can't dunk anymore.

He makes a legit point though, you can't rely solely no athleticism in the NBA and have a long career. The reason Lebron is a success is because defenders have to respect his freakish ability to get to the rim and power over you. But when he gets older he won't be able to do that anymore. With no post up game and no jump shot, he will decline. I dont know by how much but he will. decline. I can see the same thing happening with Wade.

nightBULL
03-22-2011, 02:01 PM
Oh, i agree that he'll decine. Every player does, but there have been several players who come in relying on athleticism and little else, who develop other ways stay relevant as they age.

McGrady and Carter come to mind right off the top of my head.


Overall I guess I'm just not in agreement that Melo will still be out dropping 40pt games while Lebrons riding the bench elsewhere.

mikealike305
03-22-2011, 02:06 PM
To answer the threads question..... Cuz melo isnt lebron and billups isnt wade

DoMeFavors
03-22-2011, 02:06 PM
Melo won the national title in college with cuse. He got lucky there.
Then we went to Western Conference Finals. That was luck too.
Amare went to the conference finals too. All the Knicks players just keep getting lucky. They will never be winners.

Mario Chalmers won a national title too!
So what if Carmelo got to the Conference finals? Adam Morrison won a ring. Your acting like it was just carmelo and your ignoring the fact it was a well coached deep team. Something the Knicks ARE NOT!

theheatles
03-22-2011, 02:58 PM
Everyone seems to love to pick on the Knicks now? Are you *********g serious lmao. There was a thread for every shot LeBron missed, for every frown on Wade's face, for every rebound Bosh gave up, for every little thing they did wrong. The Knicks are getting NO hate compared to Miami

^^ this, miami has been scrutinized more than any team in the history of sports and they haven't played 1 full year together yet and melo has already rolled over making excuses for his team, talent alone should have allowed them to beat the cavs, melo just doesn't have that night in night out desire


Melo and Amar'e have both made it to the conference finals and yet they aren't winners. Ever think of adjusting your standards a little bit? :rolleyes:

what's melos record in the playoffs? i know he has only won 2 playoff series in his career and he needed billups to do so, and it's a given that billups will be gone after next yr

Raph12
03-22-2011, 03:25 PM
Doesn't matter how many superstars a team has if they don't play defense

No one said they had to win a ring, CP3 will make them the 05-08 Suns of the East...

koreancabbage
03-22-2011, 03:43 PM
No one said they had to win a ring, CP3 will make them the 05-08 Suns of the East...

with what money and cap space? new CBA will probably quash that idea.

They don't need an amazing point guard- they just need capable role players. 3 point shooter galore and a couple of defensive centers/wing players. They should be able to get that with the limited cap space this summer.

Cano4prez
03-22-2011, 03:50 PM
He makes a legit point though, you can't rely solely no athleticism in the NBA and have a long career. The reason Lebron is a success is because defenders have to respect his freakish ability to get to the rim and power over you. But when he gets older he won't be able to do that anymore. With no post up game and no jump shot, he will decline. I dont know by how much but he will. decline. I can see the same thing happening with Wade.

Yet he shoots better than Melo? :laugh2: