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View Full Version : Do you think the nba is fixed?



gaughan333
03-21-2011, 12:34 AM
I am interested to know what other people think with regard to this topic. I am not trying to be a conspiracy nut, I'm just wondering what people who root for different teams think about this idea.

VRP723
03-21-2011, 12:34 AM
I do

Mochalman
03-21-2011, 12:37 AM
Yes.

Lakers + Giants
03-21-2011, 12:43 AM
I'm a Laker fan. I don't believe the NBA is completely fixed or rigged, but they sure as hell have favorites. Lakers Celtics and Heat are their teams.

iggypop123
03-21-2011, 12:45 AM
you give the nba too much credit. the refs are stupid. thats all. and biased of course.

gaughan333
03-21-2011, 12:58 AM
As a bulls fan I wonder about this. For me the thing that really gets me recently in our favor is how we got Derrick Rose. Odds were tiny

More-Than-Most
03-21-2011, 01:01 AM
I think it use to be but now under the spotlight I doubt it.

Dade County
03-21-2011, 01:04 AM
Yes!!!


I think it use to be but now under the spotlight I doubt it.

They just know how to do it better/sneakier now.

Da Knicks
03-21-2011, 01:04 AM
yes no doubt

GoatMilk
03-21-2011, 01:06 AM
no, but i think there are some hidden agendas sometimes

Arch Stanton
03-21-2011, 01:07 AM
When announcers and analysts recognize that certain players get "Star Calls," then I suppose there's some room to argue if it's fixed. Also after what the idiot ref "Donaghy" did sometimes you wonder.

krazylegz
03-21-2011, 01:08 AM
I'm a Laker fan. I don't believe the NBA is completely fixed or rigged, but they sure as hell have favorites. Lakers Celtics and Heat are their teams.

sooooo....its rigged then

DodgerB24
03-21-2011, 01:10 AM
I love the NBA, but yes.

BT601
03-21-2011, 01:12 AM
I think the draft lottery is fixed

gaughan333
03-21-2011, 01:13 AM
The worst part is, that even though we all pretty much think it is some sort of fixed we're all guilty of watching it anyway.

Sadds The Gr8
03-21-2011, 01:13 AM
I think the draft lottery is fixed

definitely. the NBA is fixed as a whole. the league is a joke

RowanJournalist
03-21-2011, 01:18 AM
I don't think it is, but refs noticeably control the tempo of games by calling or not calling certain fouls or violations, depending on the player/team involved. The Celtics have a reputation of being a strong defensive team, so the toss-up calls, such as an Indiana Pacers back-up flailing his arms, while drawing slight contact, will not be called most of the time. If LeBron did the same, with the same Pacers defender (not a well known defender) he will more than likely get the call.

asomen
03-21-2011, 01:18 AM
I do agree with the lottery being fixed. Don't like the idea of people physically not being able to see how the order is determined. I see a bunch of balls bouncing around but who knows what the hell are on them.

I don't think the actual game is fixed. Yeah, I guess the refs could technically make some bad calls. But unless the players were in on it also...the players are the one who are making the shots.

gaughan333
03-21-2011, 01:26 AM
I do agree with the lottery being fixed. Don't like the idea of people physically not being able to see how the order is determined. I see a bunch of balls bouncing around but who knows what the hell are on them.

I don't think the actual game is fixed. Yeah, I guess the refs could technically make some bad calls. But unless the players were in on it also...the players are the one who are making the shots.

It is hard to over come a lot of bad fouls that result in free points and place your important players on the bench with foul trouble.

tr4shb0t
03-21-2011, 01:28 AM
It's more of a business than a sport. Yes, individual games are fixed. Not all, but the important ones for ratings and promotion of certain players/teams. It's not even really a debate if you've played basketball at a reasonably high level. The way the refs control the tempo and momentum is just silly.

Korman12
03-21-2011, 01:37 AM
No, there's never enough consistent evidence to prove it. There's definite bias, but that's the way the game has always been.

People always drift towards the idea of conspiracy when you look at the track record of certain NBA teams; say, Boston compared to Indiana. And it looks especially odd when you compare it to other professional leagues and their championship history, like, the NFL. But, again, the sport was never like the others - individual players matter much more.

ChiSox219
03-21-2011, 01:40 AM
Isn't the Derrick Rose/Bulls win lotttery proof enough the league is fixed?

If I was a Miami fan I'd still be pissed about that.

Raps08-09 Champ
03-21-2011, 01:43 AM
I made the exact thread a couple of years ago and most people in the poll voted yes.

SMH.

John Walls Era
03-21-2011, 01:44 AM
Probably play favorites. I think the same handful of teams have won the championships in the last 15 years.

Korman12
03-21-2011, 01:46 AM
Probably play favorites. I think the same handful of teams have won the championships in the last 15 years.

The only time in NBA history where that didn't happen was in the 70s, during and a little after the ABA split.

asandhu23
03-21-2011, 01:52 AM
it's rigged.

Mplsman
03-21-2011, 02:06 AM
It is impossible to completely control the game of basketball, it is one of the highest paced, spontaneous sport in the world. Do I think refs blow a ton of calls? Yes. So I guess that carries an effect on the game. I do think Stern favors certain franchises more and tweaks things like the Draft lottery. I'm not trying to have sour grapes or anything because it's really whatever, but the team lottery winners have been very suspect from an odds perspective for a while now. Overall the actual game stays pretty natural though, in my opinion, but the officiating could be much better.

Pistol_Pete
03-21-2011, 02:07 AM
I really doubt it. Pretty much everyone who owns a team is an owner or part owner of a major business. I really doubt that they would knowingly be involved in a fixed sport that represents itself as real. And seeing how owners are paying hundreds of millions of dollars to own a team, if the NBA represented itself falsely, that would be HUGE lawsuits and jail time for just about every NBA exec. That fact that this extend to multiple states, not to mention internationally (Toronto) would automatically make matter a felony.

On top of that, I think the Knicks are part of a publicly traded stock, which would result in all sorts of felonies (not including the implications it would have on Cablevision) if the game were fixed.

I'm sure some people would like to think it's fixed sometimes (certain ref calls or draft picks come to mind) but that's not "fixing" the game really. I really can't see how it could possibly be fixed. If it were, it would likely be the biggest crime in the history of world. I'm talking billions upon billions of dollars. It would be fictional super-villain worthy.

CityofChaos
03-21-2011, 02:10 AM
Does anyone know why the NBA no longer televises the lottery random selection process? It shouldnt be done behind closed doors.

I was thinking the frozen envelope incident is the reason why but I want to make sure.

Lebron and Rose BOTH getting drafted by their hometown team isnt a coincidence if you ask me.

shizzle09
03-21-2011, 02:14 AM
Mavs fans think its fixed

maddBat
03-21-2011, 02:16 AM
i think its fixed 2 make the most $ possible in certain situations

metsbulls1025
03-21-2011, 02:22 AM
A referee was caught and gave plenty of names and ways how it happens. When people are betting with money and there are people who can control the out come of a game(s) there is always something there.

gaughan333
03-21-2011, 02:23 AM
I really doubt it. Pretty much everyone who owns a team is an owner or part owner of a major business. I really doubt that they would knowingly be involved in a fixed sport that represents itself as real. And seeing how owners are paying hundreds of millions of dollars to own a team, if the NBA represented itself falsely, that would be HUGE lawsuits and jail time for just about every NBA exec. That fact that this extend to multiple states, not to mention internationally (Toronto) would automatically make matter a felony.

On top of that, I think the Knicks are part of a publicly traded stock, which would result in all sorts of felonies (not including the implications it would have on Cablevision) if the game were fixed.

I'm sure some people would like to think it's fixed sometimes (certain ref calls or draft picks come to mind) but that's not "fixing" the game really. I really can't see how it could possibly be fixed. If it were, it would likely be the biggest crime in the history of world. I'm talking billions upon billions of dollars. It would be fictional super-villain worthy.

Because something being a felony and affecting a ton of different people has always stopped it from happening, right? We already know some of the games were fixed through officiating. Not saying your post is wrong, just offering the other side.

gaughan333
03-21-2011, 02:26 AM
Mavs fans think its fixed

You are referring to the series against the heat, I assume?

koLohe2133
03-21-2011, 02:33 AM
No, there's never enough consistent evidence to prove it. There's definite bias, but that's the way the game has always been.

People always drift towards the idea of conspiracy when you look at the track record of certain NBA teams; say, Boston compared to Indiana. And it looks especially odd when you compare it to other professional leagues and their championship history, like, the NFL. But, again, the sport was never like the others - individual players matter much more.

Lakers are 11-1 in playoff games Joey Crawford refs...one loss is when Kobe dogged the 2nd half against Phoenix to send a message to management before the gasol trade...

I'd say that's pretty consistent.

DODGERS&LAKERS
03-21-2011, 02:35 AM
Fixed like how? Stern already knows who is going to win the championship this year? If he does, I hope he has someone put some money on that team. And if I was him, I would make it so a team with poor odds to win a ring, actually does.

If I were Stern, I would have my second cousin, put 50 million on the Grizzlies to win a ring. Then, just fix it so that they come out on top. Im sure he has already been doing this. Just doing it wrong. He keeps letting the team with the most talent win. He is not getting a good 30/1 odds on them. He needs to change his game plan.

shizzle09
03-21-2011, 02:35 AM
You are referring to the series against the heat, I assume?

yeah, you are correct

Kevj77
03-21-2011, 02:38 AM
No, stop with the conspiracy theories. What would happen to the NBA if it was ever proved that the league fixed games or the lottery? A rogue ref in trouble with the mob is one thing, but actual fixing by Stern or his lackies. The NBA would lose all credibility and become the WWE. That would destroy the NBA, it's a lot to risk for a little better ratings.

AIRMAR72
03-21-2011, 02:40 AM
It's more of a business than a sport. Yes, individual games are fixed. Not all, but the important ones for ratings and promotion of certain players/teams. It's not even really a debate if you've played basketball at a reasonably high level. The way the refs control the tempo and momentum is just silly.

i agree and your 100% RITE only IMPORTANT FRANCHIES and player exposure and its just business at the end of the day

DODGERS&LAKERS
03-21-2011, 02:43 AM
No, stop with the conspiracy theories. What would happen to the NBA if it was ever proved that the league fixed games or the lottery? A rogue ref in trouble with the mob is one thing, but actual fixing by Stern or his lackies. The NBA would lose all credibility and become the WWE. That would destroy the NBA, it's a lot to risk for a little better ratings.

NO NO NO! Way to much sense in this post. Stern picks the winner, and allows all the big market teams to win. Thats why New York always wins, and poor San Antonio cant even get decent talent, let alone make the playoffs....

THE_FLASH_21
03-21-2011, 02:49 AM
**** yes.. And the Lakers and Celtics fans know it...

lpdunks8
03-21-2011, 02:50 AM
These types of statements crack me up.

You're telling me that the people who invest in these businesses (owners) sit idly by while their EMPLOYEES (David Stern and his team) determine what happens year in and year out?

A few of you cite the example of the draft lottery being rigged and others talk about teams like the Celtics being favored.

Let me knock those two out really quick. Why would Stern and crew fix it to where a small market team most don't care about (Spurs) get the #1 pick (Duncan) when the Celtics had the worst record in the NBA that year?

In 2004, one of the least watched finals ever happened partly because of this. What was the "fix" in that?

For anyone who has played baskteball at a relatively high level, we understand that refs make big errors and sometimes the game seems rigged. However; most of us realize that the ref in a D3 level game in Colorado 13 years ago was not biased. The NBA needs to be looked at the same way.

DODGERS&LAKERS
03-21-2011, 02:53 AM
**** yes.. And the Lakers and Celtics fans know it...

Why? Because they have the most titles? So is Football rigged for the Steelers and baseball for the Yankees?

CityofChaos
03-21-2011, 02:54 AM
I guess it really depends on how you defined fixed. Id say the NBA is too predictable compared to other sports. There is a HUGE gap between the elite teams and the bad ones. A casual fan doesnt have to watch a single regular season game to know who will be in the playoffs.

There will be a few new faces in playoffs but overall the top teams tend to stay at the top for YEARS which makes the NBA boring as hell sometimes

lpdunks8
03-21-2011, 02:59 AM
I guess it really depends on how you defined fixed. Id say the NBA is too predictable compared to other sports. There is a HUGE gap between the elite teams and the bad ones. A casual fan doesnt have to watch a single regular season game to know who will be in the playoffs.

There will be a few new faces in playoffs but overall the top teams tend to stay at the top for YEARS which makes the NBA boring as hell sometimes

Doesn't this apply to every sport except the NFL? We know the Pirates have no chance in MLB. We know Barca and Real Madrid will make the Champions League every year.

It's all about ownership wanting to win and GMs/Coaches being held accountable.

CityofChaos
03-21-2011, 03:14 AM
Doesn't this apply to every sport except the NFL? We know the Pirates have no chance in MLB. We know Barca and Real Madrid will make the Champions League every year.

It's all about ownership wanting to win and GMs/Coaches being held accountable.

Not really. No one expected the Giants to win the world series last season...FIFA WC isnt predictable... The NHL hasnt had repeat champions since 97... To say the UFC is predictable would be ignorant... I dont think there has ever been a back to back wimbledon champion...the US open has a pretty diverse set of champs aside from you know who...

jiggin
03-21-2011, 03:37 AM
Of course it's fixed...since when in any sport is it ok for a foul to be called or not called based on that player being a star or not?

The fact that it is so accepted by the fans and. The commish office shows we don't care...we love the rules being bent for a good show. It's entertainment...not much different from WWF or Barry manalo at caesars...they put on a show to sell tickets.

Sometimes, whistles are blown or not blown to support that.

I think we can all agree that anytime big business and unions are involved, there is a mantality that lines will be crossed if they must to make a dime. I know I am really generalizing but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if there was even more going on than the currently accepted rule bending. It is a billion dollar biz. Lots to be made and lost.

checkit
03-21-2011, 03:52 AM
of course it is. the officiating is atrocious.

Wade>You
03-21-2011, 04:05 AM
See for yourself if the NBA is rigged

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mN3OGRGybA

This is why the draft isn't done in front of live television anymore.

If Stern is rigging drafts, what's to say he's not involved in other parts of the NBA.

Trace
03-21-2011, 04:09 AM
Well you can't really blame the lottery process for the failures of your team. Many stars in the NBA today were not No.1 draft picks. Give the FO some credit...won't ya?

Teams such as the modern Spurs, Lakers and Celts were not built on lottery picks but rather astute trades/picks of certain players.

xxcubs22xx
03-21-2011, 04:11 AM
It has to be fixed.

Just like many things going on in our world...

Kevj77
03-21-2011, 04:13 AM
NO NO NO! Way to much sense in this post. Stern picks the winner, and allows all the big market teams to win. Thats why New York always wins, and poor San Antonio cant even get decent talent, let alone make the playoffs....This post followed by the post below it proves my point. People will believe whatever they want. The Celtics had the best chance of winning the lottery the year Duncan was in the draft, yet San Antonio won with the least chance. Was that fixed? Did Stern really want a small market to get Duncan, with the least chance? It was just luck, which brings another thing to mind. Phil being overated by picking his spots and Pop being some great basketball mind because he won the lottery. People love to discredit Phil because he had talent, but never talk about Pop hitting the jackpot, because the Admiral got hurt.


**** yes.. And the Lakers and Celtics fans know it...No, actually I don't or Duncan would have been a Celtic.

TRF929
03-21-2011, 04:19 AM
I would say it is

Example: Wrestling, they once said no to it being fake, now look at it. It still grew to what it is now, so even with games being fixed doesn't mean people will stop watching

effen5
03-21-2011, 04:30 AM
I personally don't think its fixed but I think they need to fire every single referee and hire all new ones. The ones officiating right now are the most inconsistent officiating out of all the major sports.

blacknell
03-21-2011, 04:49 AM
heck yea they will make sure that the same teams play for the championship almost every year

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-21-2011, 06:14 AM
no, it cant be

magichatnumber9
03-21-2011, 07:53 AM
The Lottery is just ask Chicago and Cleveland.

TylerSL
03-21-2011, 08:11 AM
I dont know how much of it is Stern or the NBA, accually I doubt they have very much to do with it. But the refs are pretty one sided at times. The Lakers, C's, and Heat sometimes get away with murder while other times they get murdered and the refs just look away. I watch all the Heat games and I see times where Wade doesnt get hit but gets a foul, but then I see where he gets knocked on the head and bumped in mid air and doesnt get a call. I recall the game against the Thunder. The Heat were down 8 with like 2:30 left. The Heat steal the ball, and pass it down court to Wade, who was all by himself. One of the Thunder players run him down grab his shoulder and hit him when he is in the air. The Heat could have only been down 6 and on like a 10-2 run with all the momentum with 2:30 min. left. Plenty of time to win. What ended up happening after that was the Thunder got on a break and hit a 3, while Wade and Spo both got Techs. The Thunder made 1/2 FT's. So instead of being down 6 and having the momentum, the Thunder were up 11 with the ball and all the momentum...... The Refs also get (in what I personally call it) in a "No Foul Mode" where they wont call fouls on anybody, and other times they call fouls for everything. I'm not sure how much blame goes to Stern, I dont really blame him, I blame the stupid *** Officiating Union or whatever they are called....

todu82
03-21-2011, 08:28 AM
No, I don't think it is. I do think there's a level of favourtism sometimes but I don't think its fixed.

arbitrage
03-21-2011, 08:55 AM
As Maximus would say: "Are you not entertained?" Under David Stern, the NBA has changed over the years from a professional sport to sports entertainment (like the WWE). The draft is obviously fixed, from the '85 Ewing draft to the Lebron & Rose drafts. Stern mandates the refs make certain calls to insure that the "right" teams make it into the finals. Sometimes the refs are poor actors and don't know how to make the calls less obvious (2002 Game 6: Kings/ Lakers). It's all comes down to money.

mttwlsn16
03-21-2011, 09:15 AM
I am interested to know what other people think with regard to this topic. I am not trying to be a conspiracy nut, I'm just wondering what people who root for different teams think about this idea.

as a clippers fan, i say no. the refs are stupid no doubt, and stern sucks, but its not fixed

Eicholtz
03-21-2011, 09:16 AM
I believe to a degree all of the big sports are. When you have a business that creates as much money as sports does there is always going to be some sort of crooked activity. Not to dodge or stray away from your post but, I think of all the big leagues the NFL is the biggest one. I don't think it's completely scripted like wrestling but I think certain things are heavily influenced. But to answer your question I believe that there are some elements in the NBA are fixed. Just not nearly as much as the NFL. Good post.

Double_R
03-21-2011, 09:21 AM
no, it cant be

Says the guy whose name starts with KOBE24.

PhillyFaninLA
03-21-2011, 09:32 AM
No its not. Refs sometimes make a bad call or miss one because they are human. You can't fix shots going in. I've taken enough shots in my life to know that sometimes you can do everything right and it feels good and you get a bad bounce off the rim and you can also do everything bad and just throw the ball at the net and it can go in.

ChiTownPacerFan
03-21-2011, 09:33 AM
I believe to a degree all of the big sports are. When you have a business that creates as much money as sports does there is always going to be some sort of crooked activity. Not to dodge or stray away from your post but, I think of all the big leagues the NFL is the biggest one. I don't think it's completely scripted like wrestling but I think certain things are heavily influenced. But to answer your question I believe that there are some elements in the NBA are fixed. Just not nearly as much as the NFL. Good post.

Why would the NFL need to be influenced at all? People watch the games no matter who is playing. No one is skipping the Super Bowl because of the teams. The NBA, on the other hand, needs big market match-ups to get ratings, and I mean they really NEED them. Game 7 of the '05 finals (Spurs-Pistons) got an 11.9 rating, while game 7 of last year's finals (Lakers-Celtics) got an 18.2 rating . That is a gigantic difference.

Meanwhile, the Super Bowl is the highest rated television event year after year. They have no incentive to influence who wins games. I don't understand your logic.

Mochalman
03-21-2011, 09:34 AM
If you even have to ask then it is.

JonnyBrav000
03-21-2011, 09:50 AM
I really doubt it. Pretty much everyone who owns a team is an owner or part owner of a major business. I really doubt that they would knowingly be involved in a fixed sport that represents itself as real. And seeing how owners are paying hundreds of millions of dollars to own a team, if the NBA represented itself falsely, that would be HUGE lawsuits and jail time for just about every NBA exec. That fact that this extend to multiple states, not to mention internationally (Toronto) would automatically make matter a felony.

On top of that, I think the Knicks are part of a publicly traded stock, which would result in all sorts of felonies (not including the implications it would have on Cablevision) if the game were fixed.

I'm sure some people would like to think it's fixed sometimes (certain ref calls or draft picks come to mind) but that's not "fixing" the game really. I really can't see how it could possibly be fixed. If it were, it would likely be the biggest crime in the history of world. I'm talking billions upon billions of dollars. It would be fictional super-villain worthy.


Actually the biggest crime happened in NYC in 2001. However, the NBA is rigged to a certain degree. The refs control the tempo of the game. They don't make the shots, but they make the calls that can give a team free points while putting players on the bench. Seriously, what the heck is a star call? Why does it matter if you are a star, a foul is a foul and when it is not a foul, it is not a foul. The draft lottery? Not sure if that is rigged but I wouldn't be suprised if it was at least a little juiced up to help favor certain franchises. Basketball needs an alternative league to rival the nba, with less b.s. and more real basketball.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-21-2011, 10:23 AM
Says the guy whose name starts with KOBE24.

C'mon NBA isn't fixed, look at the size of the organisation.

If it is fixed it has to be one of the worlds greatest hidden secrets lol.

Crackadalic
03-21-2011, 10:26 AM
Maybe the lottery but i doubt the nba is fix. The referee officiating is terrible though

Sly Guy
03-21-2011, 10:27 AM
yep. Not to who ultimately wins, but who ultimately gets a chance to win.

Double_R
03-21-2011, 10:51 AM
C'mon NBA isn't fixed, look at the size of the organisation.

If it is fixed it has to be one of the worlds greatest hidden secrets lol.

It's not really a secret, if you watch the NBA, you know. When I say fixed I mean games are strongly influenced by Stern's Gestapo(I mean the refs)(sounds like an oxymoron, ha). Anyway, what I mean is that certain players will be taken out of games with garbage fouls, some will get horrible calls, others will get absolutely no calls, some will get away with arguing, others will get t'd up, etc. Hell, for all I know they use a few centimeter smaller rims on one side.

The ECF where the Magic played the Cavs was one of the worst officiated series I have seen in a while. Hell, even the commercials were advertising Kobe vs Lebron. If you didn't think Stern wanted Lebron vs Kobe in the finals, go back and watch that series(not one game, the entire series.) So yea it still can be fixed regardless of the outcome. I felt like the Magic won that series while beating the refs, Stern, Lebron, and the Cavs. I thought that the Heat vs Mavs was a pretty one sided affair as well. Everyone knows about the Kings vs Lakers in 02. There is plenty more, but you get the point.

I saw someone else post this earlier, that the winner isn't fixed, but who gets a chance to play for the championship is and I agree completely. I believe the NBA is a ratings whore and is will to do what ever it takes to strongly influence certain matchups.

d00d
03-21-2011, 10:55 AM
I absolutely do.

IceMan360
03-21-2011, 10:56 AM
Double_R;17185596]It's not really a secret, if you watch the NBA, you know. When I say fixed I mean games are strongly influenced by Stern's Gestapo(I mean the refs)(sounds like an oxymoron, ha). Anyway, what I mean is that certain players will be taken out of games with garbage fouls, some will get horrible calls, others will get absolutely no calls, some will get away with arguing, others will get t'd up, etc. Hell, for all I know they use a few centimeter smaller rims on one side.[/B]

The ECF where the Magic played the Cavs was one of the worst officiated series I have seen in a while. Hell, even the commercials were advertising Kobe vs Lebron. If you didn't think Stern wanted Lebron vs Kobe in the finals, go back and watch that series(not one game, the entire series.) So yea it still can be fixed regardless of the outcome. I felt like the Magic won that series while beating the refs, Stern, Lebron, and the Cavs. I thought that the Heat vs Mavs was a pretty one sided affair as well. Everyone knows about the Kings vs Lakers in 02. There is plenty more, but you get the point.

I saw someone else post this earlier, that the winner isn't fixed, but who gets a chance to play for the championship is and I agree completely. I believe the NBA is a ratings whore and is will to do what ever it takes to strongly influence certain matchups.


:clap:
totally agree with this

LionsFan..LOL
03-21-2011, 11:02 AM
Not rigged but favoritism to certain players and teams.

gaughan333
03-21-2011, 11:25 AM
Not rigged but favoritism to certain players and teams.

For me, I'd have to count this as rigged. It is interesting to see what some consider the word to mean as compared to others. I really enjoy reading how some people feel and why on this subject (that is not at all sarcastic or condescending).

ghettosean
03-21-2011, 11:39 AM
I totally think the NBA is rigged... After watching the dunk contest I know it's rigged! Even Charles Barkley was open enough to say it on TV (during the dunk contest) that Blakes final dunk wasn't going to be enough to beat Mcgee but choir boy still won. He's by far one of the most exciting players in the NBA right now but he didn't deserve to win the dunk contest. Also with stars getting star calls from the refs and stuff like that there's just so much B.S.

I kind of just don't get it sometimes why can't it be a fully competative game anymore?!?

So bothered by this!!!

LionsFan..LOL
03-21-2011, 11:40 AM
For me, I'd have to count this as rigged. It is interesting to see what some consider the word to mean as compared to others. I really enjoy reading how some people feel and why on this subject (that is not at all sarcastic or condescending).

I don't think officials/NBA front office sit and say Lakers will win this year and then Chicago and so on. I think they just have certain players/teams they like and will give them calls especially when it is close. Rigging to me is defined as making sure a certain event happens your way and in the NBA that doesn't always happen. Look at 04 Pistons beat the heavily favored Lakers and the next year we got what some called the most boring finals ever: Pistons and Spurs. All they do is true to persuade (for lack of a better term) the favorable outcome to happen

Ray_R
03-21-2011, 11:48 AM
I don't think the actual playoffs or games are rigged. Like people said before the Refs are just stupid sometimes.

If anything I think they have influence or rigged the Lottery a few times.

OREcoast49er
03-21-2011, 11:56 AM
It's not really a secret, if you watch the NBA, you know. When I say fixed I mean games are strongly influenced by Stern's Gestapo(I mean the refs)(sounds like an oxymoron, ha). Anyway, what I mean is that certain players will be taken out of games with garbage fouls, some will get horrible calls, others will get absolutely no calls, some will get away with arguing, others will get t'd up, etc. Hell, for all I know they use a few centimeter smaller rims on one side.

The ECF where the Magic played the Cavs was one of the worst officiated series I have seen in a while. Hell, even the commercials were advertising Kobe vs Lebron. If you didn't think Stern wanted Lebron vs Kobe in the finals, go back and watch that series(not one game, the entire series.) So yea it still can be fixed regardless of the outcome. I felt like the Magic won that series while beating the refs, Stern, Lebron, and the Cavs. I thought that the Heat vs Mavs was a pretty one sided affair as well. Everyone knows about the Kings vs Lakers in 02. There is plenty more, but you get the point.

I saw someone else post this earlier, that the winner isn't fixed, but who gets a chance to play for the championship is and I agree completely. I believe the NBA is a ratings whore and is will to do what ever it takes to strongly influence certain matchups.

Good post. Funny, it seems only Laker and Celtic fans think it isnt rigged.

The NBA is a step or 2 more real then the WWE. Its so weird how the #1 pick will go to the bigger market. How many times did Sacramento get the #1 pick when they had the worst record? Better yet a top 3 pick with the worst record? It was not shocking that the NBA gave LA Blake Griffin instead of Sacramento. Hell, they invented the Lottery to keep Ewing out of Sac, and strangely enough he ends up in NY. What are the odds? Kobe forces a trade to LA as a rookie. Doesnt bother the NBA because they want him in LA. Rose to Chicago. Lebron to his hometown team. 2002 WCF-after learning that Stern wasnt going to let my team have a champioship I was pretty much done with the NBA. College Bball is so much better to watch. You can watch a real basketball game at the college level.

CubsFanBudMan#1
03-21-2011, 12:13 PM
The worst part is, that even though we all pretty much think it is some sort of fixed we're all guilty of watching it anyway.

So were pretty much like the hardcore WWE fans, just don't wanna believe its fixed....

Trace
03-21-2011, 12:32 PM
As Maximus would say: "Are you not entertained?" Under David Stern, the NBA has changed over the years from a professional sport to sports entertainment (like the WWE). The draft is obviously fixed, from the '85 Ewing draft to the Lebron & Rose drafts. Stern mandates the refs make certain calls to insure that the "right" teams make it into the finals. Sometimes the refs are poor actors and don't know how to make the calls less obvious (2002 Game 6: Kings/ Lakers). It's all comes down to money.

They didn't know that Lebron and Rose would turn out to be All-Stars. And basketball is such a spontaneous and fast sport that it's easy to mess up some calls.



Good post. Funny, it seems only Laker and Celtic fans think it isnt rigged.

The NBA is a step or 2 more real then the WWE. Its so weird how the #1 pick will go to the bigger market. How many times did Sacramento get the #1 pick when they had the worst record? Better yet a top 3 pick with the worst record? It was not shocking that the NBA gave LA Blake Griffin instead of Sacramento. Hell, they invented the Lottery to keep Ewing out of Sac, and strangely enough he ends up in NY. What are the odds? Kobe forces a trade to LA as a rookie. Doesnt bother the NBA because they want him in LA. Rose to Chicago. Lebron to his hometown team. 2002 WCF-after learning that Stern wasnt going to let my team have a champioship I was pretty much done with the NBA. College Bball is so much better to watch. You can watch a real basketball game at the college level.

LOL this is based on the assumption that Stern predict tell the future.

jrm2054
03-21-2011, 12:38 PM
Yes it is fixed the refs are all guilty of fixing

godolphins
03-21-2011, 12:44 PM
Absolutely yes :nod:

DoubleDragon
03-21-2011, 12:45 PM
conspiracy theorists and whiners unite! The fix is in.

Give me a break.
Tired theory, circumstantial (at best) evidence and sour grapes make for a great thread at the end of yet another season. I'll tell you what DOES influence the NBA. Usually, bigger market teams have more cashflow. With cashflow comes higher salaries. With higher salaries AND bigger markets comes the attraction for great talent. The SAME college teams usually end up in the Final Four as well. Attractive market is the key.

Get real with this crap. I'm not denying cash is king, but as far as the whole fixed thing. DUMB.
San Antonio breaks the mold with a superior coach, great talent, tiny market and class.
I grew up in Chicago. Jordan, Pippen and PJ brought the rings to Chi-town. OKC right now has a small market but supreme talent, great organization, patience and coaching. They got Durantula in the draft. Next thing you're gonna say is that by some conspiracy, Sam Bowie was picked over Michael Jordan in the 80's draft because of the NBA's mafioso influence...NO
Pure lack of vision on an organization's part, and quite frankly, BAD luck alot of the time. Did Stern injure Greg Oden's knees too? (those crazy mafioso and there knee breaking again). What about Krstic as top pick over some future Hall of Fame talent? Stern's fault?
There are so many holes in this tired theory that this is a waste of typing. Bring on the insults and weak arguments. I shouldn't validate this thread with a response, but sometimes when you see pollution, you can't help but bend down and pick up the trash on occasion.

Too many stories throughout the history of the NBA where great talent has been overlooked by lottery teams with 1st-5th picks. Do your research. Quit whining.
I need coffee

Have a nice day (see? there's no reason to stay nasty : ))

Dallas Tx4Life
03-21-2011, 12:47 PM
As a bulls fan I wonder about this. For me the thing that really gets me recently in our favor is how we got Derrick Rose. Odds were tiny

Lol that's what I'm sayin!!! Lottery is definitely fixed, that's a fact.

Avenged
03-21-2011, 12:57 PM
Refs sometimes fold under the home crowd. It's no secret that calls don't go to the away team as much as they do to home teams which is why many teams go after HCA to have exactly that, an advantage.

MickeyMgl
03-21-2011, 12:58 PM
No, it is not fixed, per se. For the record, I'm not counting the theory that stars get favorable calls as fixed. "Fixed" is that the outcomes of games are predetermined. I am very certain that they're not.

Furthermore, anybody who says they think the NBA is fixed, and still watches, is full of shart. They'll complain that the NBA is fixed until their team comes out on top, then they'll defend the results while other whiners from other teams take their place.

If you believe it's fixed, you shouldn't be watching.

Okc Thunder #1
03-21-2011, 01:03 PM
Its not fixed, its always the most valuable team will win. But this year will be different, everyone is lookin at teams like Miamii, L.A, Boston, S.A, Dallas, Chicago but no one expects the least expected. Which is Okc, last year they were missin a Center and experience. This year tradin for Perkins was HUGE for them. Also addin Robinson for the energy off the bench, They are a complete team. So watch out big market teams

iliketurtles24
03-21-2011, 01:06 PM
ahh chicago getting rose and timberwolves always getting screwed on lottery yes its fixed

i dont think the games are fixed per se but some thing def are

Mcdoh
03-21-2011, 01:07 PM
could be..

Dallas Tx4Life
03-21-2011, 01:08 PM
Its not fixed, its always the most valuable team will win. But this year will be different, everyone is lookin at teams like Miamii, L.A, Boston, S.A, Dallas, Chicago but no one expects the least expected. Which is Okc, last year they were missin a Center and experience. This year tradin for Perkins was HUGE for them. Also addin Robinson for the energy off the bench, They are a complete team. So watch out big market teams

Everyone expected the Thunder to be contenders this year before the trade... Especially with the way Westbrook started the season.. You guys are way past the underrated and unrecognized level...

Okc Thunder #1
03-21-2011, 01:10 PM
Everyone expected the Thunder to be contenders this year before the trade... Especially with the way Westbrook started the season.. You guys are way past the underrated and unrecognized level...

Thank You for agreein wit me

Dallas Tx4Life
03-21-2011, 01:12 PM
Thank You for agreein wit me

That Perkins trade has to be one of the best trades for a team I have ever seen by the way... (And I'm not counting the Pau trade, due to cheatin' reasons!!)

Gram
03-21-2011, 04:35 PM
I think the most rigged thing is the Draft Lottery.

PurpleJesus
03-21-2011, 04:41 PM
i dont think they could micro manage every team, and every player to make it completely fixed, but i do think they provide help to some teams that would benefit the league financially

CostanzaNumba0
03-21-2011, 04:42 PM
I think the draft lottery is fixed

If that were the case LBJ would be in NYC from day 1

king james
03-21-2011, 04:50 PM
without a doubt.

leftymo
03-21-2011, 05:36 PM
NBA is fixed only when your team loses...

It's not fixed, b/c in the end it comes down to HCA and making baskets.

For every "rigged" game, you can always look at another reason for the defeat. The Sac Kings bricking free throws in 2002 for example...


The 98 Bulls, some could say the NBA "wanted" them to win, but watching the end of that game clearly shows that the Jazz screwed up over and over again... and the Bulls capitalized.

leftymo
03-21-2011, 05:38 PM
That Perkins trade has to be one of the best trades for a team I have ever seen by the way... (And I'm not counting the Pau trade, due to cheatin' reasons!!)

cheatin reasons? Maybe you need to revisit that trade again.


And as a Laker fan I loved the Perkins trade. Yes it did help OKC, and they have a very good core that will only get better, but it weakened the team realistically with the only shot of beating the Lakers this year in the playoffs...the Boston Celtics.

Dallas Tx4Life
03-21-2011, 05:40 PM
If that were the case LBJ would be in NYC from day 1

Yeah but wasn't it equally strange that he ended up at his hometown? To a city where they know the fans are avid ones that have nothing else to root for?

leftymo
03-21-2011, 05:52 PM
Yeah but wasn't it equally strange that he ended up at his hometown? To a city where they know the fans are avid ones that have nothing else to root for?


No, I just find it odd that every other superstar in NBA history didn't end up in their hometown... you know, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Kobe, KG, Wade, etc...

Atticus Finch
03-21-2011, 06:26 PM
It's easy to assume the NBA is rigged when you focus exclusively on certain instances and ignore all of the mundane, normal games. Honestly, it's 2011 and we're still talking about one game from one playoff series that happened almost 10 years ago. Not to mention there are facts to dispute the unfairness of this series, but most people choose to ignore it because it doesn't align with their conspiracy theory.

Does that mean the NBA isn't rigged? No, not at all, nobody here can say yes or no with certainty. And stars getting favorable calls does not equal the NBA being rigged. If that was the case, the MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA and MLS are all rigged.

Funny side story - When I was coaching high school bball I got tossed from a game against Centennial because I accused one of the refs of taking bribes. He wasn't too happy with me after that

The Bradley
03-21-2011, 07:36 PM
It's easy to assume the NBA is rigged when you focus exclusively on certain instances and ignore all of the mundane, normal games. Honestly, it's 2011 and we're still talking about one game from one playoff series that happened almost 10 years ago. Not to mention there are facts to dispute the unfairness of this series, but most people choose to ignore it because it doesn't align with their conspiracy theory.

Does that mean the NBA isn't rigged? No, not at all, nobody here can say yes or no with certainty. And stars getting favorable calls does not equal the NBA being rigged. If that was the case, the MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA and MLS are all rigged.

Funny side story - When I was coaching high school bball I got tossed from a game against Centennial because I accused one of the refs of taking bribes. He wasn't too happy with me after that

I'm curious what facts everyone is ignoring about the 2002 Western Conference finals?

Tony_Starks
03-21-2011, 07:44 PM
NBA is fixed only when your team loses...

It's not fixed, b/c in the end it comes down to HCA and making baskets.

For every "rigged" game, you can always look at another reason for the defeat. The Sac Kings bricking free throws in 2002 for example...


The 98 Bulls, some could say the NBA "wanted" them to win, but watching the end of that game clearly shows that the Jazz screwed up over and over again... and the Bulls capitalized.


Exactly. Its like the Dallas fans that are still crying about Miami. Manif your up that many points in the 4th quarter with a chance to go up 3-0 and blow it you deserved to lose bottom line.....

NYMetros
03-21-2011, 07:47 PM
It's funny that the people in here believe it's fixed and yet they're still fans. If you honestly think it's fixed I don't get how you can enjoy it if you're basically watching the WWE.

I don't think it is fixed, BTW...

StriveGreatness
03-21-2011, 07:50 PM
Absolutely.

Lim
03-21-2011, 07:59 PM
Isn't the Derrick Rose/Bulls win lotttery proof enough the league is fixed?

If I was a Miami fan I'd still be pissed about that.

no. so if im playing online poker and i get all my money in vs some guy who has 1 out and he hits his 1 out does that mean online poker is fixed?

Atticus Finch
03-21-2011, 08:22 PM
I'm curious what facts everyone is ignoring about the 2002 Western Conference finals?

I'm quoting Bruno87 on a different thread from earlier today, so I take absolutely no credit for this. And Bruno, thanks for the time and effort put into the research. You know as a Laker fan I love these numbers


What about it was fixed? Before you mention game six, do you remember games two & three?

Game one: LAL: 22 FTA, SAC: 17 FTAs (LAL +5).
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200205180SAC.html

Game two: LAL: 25 FTA, SAC: 38 FTAs (SAC +13)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200205200SAC.html

Game three: LAL: 15 FTA, SAC: 35 FTAs (SAC +20).
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200205240LAL.html

Game four: LAL: 27 FTA, SAC: 26 FTA (LAL +1).
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200205260LAL.html

Game five: LAL: 23 FTA, SAC: 33 FTA (SAC +10).
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200205280SAC.html

Game six: LAL: 40 FTA, SAC: 25 FTAs (LAL +15).
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200205310LAL.html

Game seven: LAL: 33 FTA, SAC: 30 FTAs (LAL +3).
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200206020SAC.html

Total free throw attempts over seven games:
LAL: 185 FTAs
SAC: 204 FTAs

Mind you, Shaq and Bryant were both top 5 in FTA for the 2001-2002 regular season, the Kings didn't have one player in the top 10 in FTAs. Yet the Kings get to the line more throughout a seven game series?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2002.html


I will add that counting only freethrows isn't entirely accurate, so it's important to count not free throw shooting fouls as well.

Fouls called against:
Game 1 -- SAC +5 (25-20)
Game 2 -- LA +6 (31-25)
Game 3 -- LA +9 (28-19)
Game 4 -- LA +1 (24-23)
Game 5 -- LA +7 (27-20)
Game 6 -- SAC +7 (31-24)
Game 7 -- SAC +5 (30-25)
Total -- LA +6 (179-173)

Game 6 wasn't even the most poorly officiated game if you go by fouls called and freethrows shot. The Kings overall shot 19 more freethrows and were called for 6 less fouls over the course of 7 games. Do these numbers even slightly suggest that this series was rigged, or do they suggest that it was an equally awfully called series?

The Bradley
03-21-2011, 08:29 PM
I'm quoting Bruno87 on a different thread from earlier today, so I take absolutely no credit for this. And Bruno, thanks for the time and effort put into the research. You know as a Laker fan I love these numbers



I will add that counting only freethrows isn't entirely accurate, so it's important to count not free throw shooting fouls as well.

Fouls called against:
Game 1 -- SAC +5 (25-20)
Game 2 -- LA +6 (31-25)
Game 3 -- LA +9 (28-19)
Game 4 -- LA +1 (24-23)
Game 5 -- LA +7 (27-20)
Game 6 -- SAC +7 (31-24)
Game 7 -- SAC +5 (30-25)
Total -- LA +6 (179-173)

Game 6 wasn't even the most poorly officiated game if you go by fouls called and freethrows shot. The Kings overall shot 19 more freethrows and were called for 6 less fouls over the course of 7 games. Do these numbers even slightly suggest that this series was rigged, or do they suggest that it was an equally awfully called series?

Why are fouls suppose to be equal? If one team is fouling the other team more, shouldn't there be more free throws shot by one team?

Atticus Finch
03-21-2011, 08:40 PM
Why are fouls suppose to be equal? If one team is fouling the other team more, shouldn't there be more free throws shot by one team?

The point of that wasn't to say that every game fouls and free throws should be exactly equal, they usually aren't. The point was that a lot of people who believe the NBA is rigged point to game 6 of the WCF and view the free throw disparity as "proof" that David Stern fixed the series. The fact of the matter is that the refs favored the Kings more than the Lakers, but you never hear anyone talk about that. Instead all you hear it how the Lakers were given the championship, and the only shred of proof they have is a youtube link to some video made by some amateur who hates the Lakers and is still angry over the fact that the Kings lost.

The easy part about conspiracy theories is you need no proof whatsoever to come up with it (that's why they're called theories).

LA_Raiders
03-21-2011, 08:44 PM
Some what, I heard a ref once said that they have their pre game meetings and call one sided...

LN=EVER,FN=G8ST
03-21-2011, 08:45 PM
I'm a Laker fan. I don't believe the NBA is completely fixed or rigged, but they sure as hell have favorites. Lakers Celtics and Heat are their teams.
Were their favorites this year they haven't been getting any love
Let the bashing begin

The Bradley
03-21-2011, 09:00 PM
The point of that wasn't to say that every game fouls and free throws should be exactly equal, they usually aren't. The point was that a lot of people who believe the NBA is rigged point to game 6 of the WCF and view the free throw disparity as "proof" that David Stern fixed the series. The fact of the matter is that the refs favored the Kings more than the Lakers, but you never hear anyone talk about that. Instead all you hear it how the Lakers were given the championship, and the only shred of proof they have is a youtube link to some video made by some amateur who hates the Lakers and is still angry over the fact that the Kings lost.

The easy part about conspiracy theories is you need no proof whatsoever to come up with it (that's why they're called theories).

I disagree with your whole premise. People don't point to the free throw disparity to say game 6 was fixed (if they do then it's a horrible argument), they point to the fact they saw the game with their own eyes. They watched Scott Pollard and Vlade Divac get fouled out of the game without touching they player they supposedly fouled. They saw Mike Bibby take an elbow to the face from Kobe Bryant right in front of the ref without a whistle blown. If you want proof this happened, watch the game with your own eyes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fxj0fREr6w

Atticus Finch
03-21-2011, 09:15 PM
I disagree with your whole premise. People don't point to the free throw disparity to say game 6 was fixed (if they do then it's a horrible argument), they point to the fact they saw the game with their own eyes. They watched Scott Pollard and Vlade Divac get fouled out of the game without touching they player they supposedly fouled. They saw Mike Bibby take an elbow to the face from Kobe Bryant right in front of the ref without a whistle blown.


Honestly, it's 2011 and we're still talking about one game from one playoff series that happened almost 10 years ago. Not to mention there are facts to dispute the unfairness of this series, but most people choose to ignore it because it doesn't align with their conspiracy theory.



If you want proof this happened, watch the game with your own eyes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fxj0fREr6w


and the only shred of proof they have is a youtube link to some video made by some amateur who hates the Lakers and is still angry over the fact that the Kings lost.

Both taken from my earlier posts in this thread

There's no point in arguing about this, we're both set in our ways of thinking. However, for my money I haven't come across any evidence that's damning enough to where I can say to myself without any doubt that the NBA is rigged, but I accept the possibility that it could be

apocalypse15
03-21-2011, 09:17 PM
I think refs just make a lot of horrible calls. Rigged? Would be too risky for the league. Too many people would have to know about it for it not to spill. One ref admitted to betting on games but that does not mean the league is rigged. They should just completely do away with the draft lottery (also in the NHL) though.

Yankees Suck
03-21-2011, 09:24 PM
Probably.

gatkins11
03-21-2011, 09:30 PM
Yes.

Assman22
03-21-2011, 09:38 PM
Yes, the refs are commissioner's puppet-masters. They control the game, not the players.

Vikes_Fan_TC
03-21-2011, 09:40 PM
Without a doubt, I think this league is fixed for the superstar players, because thats who the fans pay to see. Its an absolute joke, if you watch guys like Lebron, Kobe, Howard, Melo, they get ALL the calls to go their way, since they puts fans in the seats. Anyone who thinks Stern doesn't influence officials to call a game a certain way is clueless. I wish Stern could be voted out of office or impeached, we need an HONEST person in that role, and let the games be like college, where no one player is above the league. This makes me sick to watch the games, what good are they if they are staged like pro wrestling? Just my two cents, I'm sure others disagree, but thats ok, everyone's opinion is valid.

Lake_Show2416
03-21-2011, 10:00 PM
yes

knightstemplar
03-21-2011, 10:02 PM
they cant control if a shot goes in or out, who gets the rebound, steal, dunk, ect

the only thing they can control is the officiating, a couple of bad calls shouldnt control a game completly, just a little, but atleast they have a 7 games series, so that the best team will win

ldawg
03-21-2011, 10:15 PM
Its fix, just look at the way the game is called. You can't touch some players and others better get out the way. Not sure how you run over a player and get reward a blocking foul but on the other end its a charge. Refs have metting before a game to decide how they are going to call a game help or vito a players game, that alone is not right. calls can't change from quarter to quarter game to game, what common ground are they going by? The calls are bogus and they don't want you to call them out so they hit you a hard fine to shut your mouth. Players, Coaches and Owners are threatened by Stern. it's fixed. The more he threatened the more you know he is trying to cover his tracks. The truth always hurt so he retaliate.

FadeAwayLikeMJ
03-21-2011, 10:36 PM
It is rigged. Stern called up Big Perk during the 3rd quarter of game 6 and told him that if he didn't tear his ACL so the Lakers would win he'd be Playing for the Red Claws.















Joke.

JWO35
03-21-2011, 10:36 PM
I wouldn't say its WWE rigged...but I do believe refs(as a group) favor certain teams. That's why you see certain superstars get ticky-tack fouls every time they drive while regulars get no calls 9/10 times.

Public Enemy #1
03-21-2011, 10:52 PM
Rigged. Favor star players and give them bs calls.

ldawg
03-21-2011, 10:52 PM
yeah not on WWF level but its rigged. What other reason would it be if a player can not tell the ref he miss the call three times in a row, then wait until he takes matters in his own hands if he can't get justice? rules are rules no metting needed to adjust your call to favor an argument over blown calls. Refs should be fine for every 5 miss calls. The worst part is the star calls, What the hell is a star call?

OREcoast49er
03-22-2011, 12:08 AM
NBA is fixed only when your team loses...

It's not fixed, b/c in the end it comes down to HCA and making baskets.

For every "rigged" game, you can always look at another reason for the defeat. The Sac Kings bricking free throws in 2002 for example...The 98 Bulls, some could say the NBA "wanted" them to win, but watching the end of that game clearly shows that the Jazz screwed up over and over again... and the Bulls capitalized.

Or counting shots released after the buzzer. Ghost fouls. Or the Lakers shooting 20 something free throws in a quarter to the Kings 4. Only Laker fans think that the refs had nothing to do with the outcome of the series. Ive never seen anything so blatent, next to the WWE.

OREcoast49er
03-22-2011, 12:14 AM
The point of that wasn't to say that every game fouls and free throws should be exactly equal, they usually aren't. The point was that a lot of people who believe the NBA is rigged point to game 6 of the WCF and view the free throw disparity as "proof" that David Stern fixed the series. The fact of the matter is that the refs favored the Kings more than the Lakers, but you never hear anyone talk about that. Instead all you hear it how the Lakers were given the championship, and the only shred of proof they have is a youtube link to some video made by some amateur who hates the Lakers and is still angry over the fact that the Kings lost.



The easy part about conspiracy theories is you need no proof whatsoever to come up with it (that's why they're called theories).

:rolleyes:Wow dude, just wow. Most ridiculous **** Ive heard on the series.



I disagree with your whole premise. People don't point to the free throw disparity to say game 6 was fixed (if they do then it's a horrible argument), they point to the fact they saw the game with their own eyes. They watched Scott Pollard and Vlade Divac get fouled out of the game without touching they player they supposedly fouled. They saw Mike Bibby take an elbow to the face from Kobe Bryant right in front of the ref without a whistle blown. If you want proof this happened, watch the game with your own eyes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fxj0fREr6w

Oh, so you got to watch the series. Still cant believe the no call on Kobe against Bibby.

asandhu23
03-22-2011, 12:26 AM
I wonder why no one thought NBA was rigged before Stern came along...

Chi City23
03-22-2011, 12:31 AM
The thing that I can't understand is how does Corey Maggette get so many 'superstar' calls??

The Bradley
03-22-2011, 04:53 AM
:rolleyes:Wow dude, just wow. Most ridiculous **** Ive heard on the series.




Oh, so you got to watch the series. Still cant believe the no call on Kobe against Bibby.

Not only the no call, but he should have been suspended. But Stern did nothing. Plus the refs that called game 6 were rewarded by reffing a game in the finals (game 3 I believe)

Champology
03-22-2011, 06:31 AM
Yes without a doubt, Bulls had like a 1% chance of landing Rose in the draft..seriously anyone gamble?......Lakers vs Kings in the WCF awhile ago was a joke, I remember while on my honeymoon watching telling my wife this **** is fixed, years later that Ref got busted and said the game was fixed, NO crap! Stern runs this mutha, just think ANY superstar gets the call EVERYTIME if not they look around like WTF cause they always get the call.

psperry34116
03-22-2011, 07:17 AM
After watching C's/Knicks last night, the refs were just giving the game to the Knicks. Carmelo had three early fouls and then they felt like they just couldnt call anything. The Knicks were flopping all over the place and they were calling everything on the C's. I feel like the refs are so afraid of getting booed in New York so they fixed the god-damn game.

flea
03-22-2011, 07:20 AM
Of course it's rigged. I still enjoy it, but the officiating situation has made it much worse than the college game. It's just a superstar league now, and unless you like to see a show there's no reason to watch any games until the conference semifinals.

TO to the CHI
03-22-2011, 08:06 AM
Both taken from my earlier posts in this thread

There's no point in arguing about this, we're both set in our ways of thinking. However, for my money I haven't come across any evidence that's damning enough to where I can say to myself without any doubt that the NBA is rigged, but I accept the possibility that it could be

This was a horrible post. You didn't actually refute anything. There are multiple YouTube videos, but that ignores the point. Those videos aren't fabricated. Rather, they are the video evidence of the game. That evidence shows a lot of incredibly suspicious fouls being called on the Kings, resulting in key players being out of the game, as well as an egregious non-call on Kobe that was obvious and changes the game by itself if called.

Looking at total fouls in the series is very interesting and I am glad you pointed those stats out. They matter. But they don't change the fact that the fouls were most lopsided when the Lakers' season was on the line and that several of the calls were insanely bad. Your money isn't worth very much if you can't acknowledge the magnitude of some of those bad calls and of Donaghy's statements regarding a fix.

And I am a Raptors fan, so it is not like I have a horse in this race.

sotor28
03-22-2011, 08:19 AM
I don't think that the NBA is necessarily "fixed", but to ignore certain things, i.e. the Bulls getting Rose, LBJ to Cleveland or the whole 1985 debacle is just absurd. Certain things happened for a reason.

ichitownclowni
03-22-2011, 08:24 AM
yes

Jester4k0
03-22-2011, 08:25 AM
Ummm, I didn't realize that it was in the process of being repaired. ;)

Anyway, I think that any behemoth sports industry that is wagered on in Vegas has been compromised..... ie football (all levels), MLB, and of course the NBA.

NBA is one sport where the referees have a major impact in outcomes of games and the league has a handful of superstars that can dictate game results single-handedly. With that much power in the hands of a few, there will always be an inkling of corruption.

However, it should be noted that all professional sports are entertainment first and pure competition second. CFB is supposed to be pure due to "amateur" status but I believe, they are compromised as much, if not more, than professional leagues.

JJ81
03-22-2011, 10:54 AM
No, I don't.

The Jokemaker
03-22-2011, 11:17 AM
Somewhat. It is without question certain teams/players get foul calls their way and sometimes it just seems blatantly obvious the refs are "pulling" for a certain team. When you see games where one team never gets fouls and the other one gets 5 fouls in a minute, then you know something is up. Officiating plays too large a role in the sport.

Atticus Finch
03-22-2011, 11:19 AM
This was a horrible post. You didn't actually refute anything. There are multiple YouTube videos, but that ignores the point. Those videos aren't fabricated. Rather, they are the video evidence of the game. That evidence shows a lot of incredibly suspicious fouls being called on the Kings, resulting in key players being out of the game, as well as an egregious non-call on Kobe that was obvious and changes the game by itself if called.

Looking at total fouls in the series is very interesting and I am glad you pointed those stats out. They matter. But they don't change the fact that the fouls were most lopsided when the Lakers' season was on the line and that several of the calls were insanely bad. Your money isn't worth very much if you can't acknowledge the magnitude of some of those bad calls and of Donaghy's statements regarding a fix.

And I am a Raptors fan, so it is not like I have a horse in this race.

Not really interested in your opinion of my posts, but thanks anyways.

SteBO
03-22-2011, 11:40 AM
Not really interested in your opinion of my posts, but thanks anyways.
You're not interested in his response because he doesn't share the same opinion as you? C'mon bro. He's right on all counts here. While Lakers-Kings was a playoff series, and you can't blame officials for a series of games, especially considering it was gross both ways, the fact that the series went full seven throws the previous parts of this sentence out the window. The refs decided game 7 in the end and that was it for SAC. It was blatantly obvious. There's enough YouTube videos that prove this already.

Bullsfan22
03-22-2011, 11:46 AM
It's not fixed but it's altered. The year the Rockets won the lottery and the bulls picked second was fixed. The Bulls had already drafted eddy curry the year prior so the NBA knew not to let the bulls get the first pick because yao's camp demanded to be drafted number one overall. I would like to believe if it is altered, it's little things like that. The media wouldn't allow the NBA to be fixed, it's too big of a sport. Even when a ref blows a game by a call it's talked about on tv forever and ultimately makes the NBA look bad.

Atticus Finch
03-22-2011, 12:13 PM
You're not interested in his response because he doesn't share the same opinion as you? C'mon bro. He's right on all counts here. While Lakers-Kings was a playoff series, and you can't blame officials for a series of games, especially considering it was gross both ways, the fact that the series went full seven throws the previous parts of this sentence out the window. The refs decided game 7 in the end and that was it for SAC. It was blatantly obvious. There's enough YouTube videos that prove this already.

OK bro. I clearly said I didn't care for his opinion of my posts, which I don't. I'm not trying to be a jerk here but when the first words I read are "horrible post" I just move right along.

ackar
03-22-2011, 12:17 PM
Ideas like this makes it easier to swallow when you team never wins. NBA just like any sports league has its darling franchises but like any other league if you build a winner you can become a darling too.

asandhu23
03-22-2011, 01:32 PM
The thing that I can't understand is how does Corey Maggette get so many 'superstar' calls??

Stern told his refs to give him superstar fouls so to the casual fan it looks like NBA is not rigged because in their minds, it would be like... " how does Corey Maggette get so man "superstar" calls".

Also what happened this year? Did he suddenly forget how to get himself fouled?

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/FreeTS.jsp?league=00&season=22010&conf=OVERALL&position=0&splitType=9&qualified=Y&yearsExp=-1&sortOrder=5

SteBO
03-22-2011, 01:59 PM
OK bro. I clearly said I didn't care for his opinion of my posts, which I don't. I'm not trying to be a jerk here but when the first words I read are "horrible post" I just move right along.
Aight. I thought you were disagreeing with what he was saying.

TO to the CHI
03-22-2011, 02:00 PM
OK bro. I clearly said I didn't care for his opinion of my posts, which I don't. I'm not trying to be a jerk here but when the first words I read are "horrible post" I just move right along.

He's not your "bro."

I also provided a ton of reasoning for my post. Your post that I criticized contained your opinion without any support. You criticize the "one" YouTube video (apparently your YouTube searches are restricted to only one result), but don't explain how it is wrong or misleading. You are simply convinced of one thing and won't reexamine it. You provided one set of facts (foul numbers), which I recognized as having value, but you have ignored everything else.

Really, all you have brought to this discussion is a great username (TKAM is a great book) and one interesting set of facts. Ignore my posts if you want (heck, put me on ignore), but it won't change the gaping holes in your arguments.

Bro.

Atticus Finch
03-22-2011, 03:04 PM
He's not your "bro."

I also provided a ton of reasoning for my post. Your post that I criticized contained your opinion without any support. You criticize the "one" YouTube video (apparently your YouTube searches are restricted to only one result), but don't explain how it is wrong or misleading. You are simply convinced of one thing and won't reexamine it. You provided one set of facts (foul numbers), which I recognized as having value, but you have ignored everything else.

Really, all you have brought to this discussion is a great username (TKAM is a great book) and one interesting set of facts. Ignore my posts if you want (heck, put me on ignore), but it won't change the gaping holes in your arguments.

Bro.

He called me bro first? :confused:

Anyways, I earlier stated that in my opinion I don't think game 6 is evidence enough for me to believe the entire NBA is rigged. Was game 6 questionable? Absolutely. Was the rest of the series questionable? Again, absolutely, I've admitted this many times (not necessarily on PSD). I even said I accept the possibility that the NBA is rigged, I just don't necessarily believe it. I'm not interested in further arguing the Kings/Lakers WCF, it's a dead end debate. The post of mine you quoted I made to be intentionally vague considering that in my posts before I predicted the course of the argument and the exact points that would be used. It goes like this:
Focus on game 6, ignore the rest of the series - check.
If that fails, resort to a link for a clip on youtube - check.
Anybody can make a montage of random clips from a game to prove a point, it's called being selective with your evidence. I could go right now and make a video showing the Lakers got screwed out of the '08 finals because in one game Leon Powe shot more freethrows than the entire Lakers team, would that be credible? Probably not (for the record I don't actually believe that).

Just to be clear, I'm 100% open to the idea of the NBA being rigged, I just don't believe it. If one day it's discovered that the NBA is in fact rigged, I'll re-open this thread and admit I'm wrong and sing your praises about how right you were. But for now I'm placing my worthless money on the NBA not being rigged.

And thanks for the compliment. TKAM is my favorite book of all time, my dad has been a huge Lakers fan since the early 70's, and he fought my mom tooth and nail to name me Atticus (they didn't), so I thought it was fitting.

TO to the CHI
03-22-2011, 03:30 PM
He called me bro first? :confused:

Anyways, I earlier stated that in my opinion I don't think game 6 is evidence enough for me to believe the entire NBA is rigged. Was game 6 questionable? Absolutely. Was the rest of the series questionable? Again, absolutely, I've admitted this many times (not necessarily on PSD). I even said I accept the possibility that the NBA is rigged, I just don't necessarily believe it. I'm not interested in further arguing the Kings/Lakers WCF, it's a dead end debate. The post of mine you quoted I made to be intentionally vague considering that in my posts before I predicted the course of the argument and the exact points that would be used. It goes like this:
Focus on game 6, ignore the rest of the series - check.
If that fails, resort to a link for a clip on youtube - check.
Anybody can make a montage of random clips from a game to prove a point, it's called being selective with your evidence. I could go right now and make a video showing the Lakers got screwed out of the '08 finals because in one game Leon Powe shot more freethrows than the entire Lakers team, would that be credible? Probably not (for the record I don't actually believe that).

Just to be clear, I'm 100% open to the idea of the NBA being rigged, I just don't believe it. If one day it's discovered that the NBA is in fact rigged, I'll re-open this thread and admit I'm wrong and sing your praises about how right you were. But for now I'm placing my worthless money on the NBA not being rigged.

And thanks for the compliment. TKAM is my favorite book of all time, my dad has been a huge Lakers fan since the early 70's, and he fought my mom tooth and nail to name me Atticus (they didn't), so I thought it was fitting.


My bad re the "bro". I missed it in Stebo's post and it is a pet peeve of mine.

As for the issue of being rigged -- I tend to agree that the NBA does not rig games. I do think it is an open issue as to whether refs have done so and to what extent.

My point re the Youtube video is not limited to that video or to any selective video. Rather, watching Game 6, with or without editing, reveals several colossally bad calls. Whether it was just a bad day for the refs or something more, I have no idea, but it is certainly sufficient to raise suspicion.

That is the difference between that game and the 2008 example. Also the Lakers quitting in the deciding game in 2008 doesn't help.

shen
03-22-2011, 03:50 PM
Yes.

Atticus Finch
03-22-2011, 04:21 PM
My bad re the "bro". I missed it in Stebo's post and it is a pet peeve of mine.

As for the issue of being rigged -- I tend to agree that the NBA does not rig games. I do think it is an open issue as to whether refs have done so and to what extent.

My point re the Youtube video is not limited to that video or to any selective video. Rather, watching Game 6, with or without editing, reveals several colossally bad calls. Whether it was just a bad day for the refs or something more, I have no idea, but it is certainly sufficient to raise suspicion.

That is the difference between that game and the 2008 example. Also the Lakers quitting in the deciding game in 2008 doesn't help.

I took no offense to the bro thing, don't sweat it. I wish I could make the word bro a pet peeve of mine, but I live in Southern California where everybody you meet is your bro.

My problem with youtube clips is that they are typically used to further an agenda. Take the "Is Kobe Clutch Thread," you had a bunch of people showing stats to suggest he isn't, then a bunch of people showing youtube montages of his game winning shots to suggest he is. The person who put the video together isn't going to show all of Kobe's misses because that makes him look less clutch, so that person focuses instead on what helps him make his point. I could easily do the same thing with game 3, where Mike Bibby, Doug Christie, and Bobby Jackson individually shot more free throws than Shaq and Kobe combined (Bibby shot 9, Christie and Jackson shot 8 each, Kobe and Shaq shot 8 combined). Had the Lakers lost the series I'm sure eventually a video like that would have popped up, but since the Lakers won nobody cared enough to do it.

End of the day people tend to forget that the 2 hardest players to officiate were on the floor during that series. Shaq, who was fouled almost every time he touched the ball whether they called it or not, and Vlade who wants you to think he got fouled every time Shaq touched the ball. Add in the fact that refs usually officiate with feelings and biases towards players/teams, plus the fact that they are human, and it almost makes sense why there is such a disparity over who benefited from the calls the most on a game by game basis.

NYYCowboys
03-22-2011, 04:42 PM
I don't think it's completely fixed i.e. the NBA doesn't know before the season starts who is going to win the title. But I think they definitely have certain teams in mind that they want to win, and I think the refs will favor these teams when the opportunity presents itself.

The Bradley
03-22-2011, 05:22 PM
I took no offense to the bro thing, don't sweat it. I wish I could make the word bro a pet peeve of mine, but I live in Southern California where everybody you meet is your bro.

My problem with youtube clips is that they are typically used to further an agenda. Take the "Is Kobe Clutch Thread," you had a bunch of people showing stats to suggest he isn't, then a bunch of people showing youtube montages of his game winning shots to suggest he is. The person who put the video together isn't going to show all of Kobe's misses because that makes him look less clutch, so that person focuses instead on what helps him make his point. I could easily do the same thing with game 3, where Mike Bibby, Doug Christie, and Bobby Jackson individually shot more free throws than Shaq and Kobe combined (Bibby shot 9, Christie and Jackson shot 8 each, Kobe and Shaq shot 8 combined). Had the Lakers lost the series I'm sure eventually a video like that would have popped up, but since the Lakers won nobody cared enough to do it.

End of the day people tend to forget that the 2 hardest players to officiate were on the floor during that series. Shaq, who was fouled almost every time he touched the ball whether they called it or not, and Vlade who wants you to think he got fouled every time Shaq touched the ball. Add in the fact that refs usually officiate with feelings and biases towards players/teams, plus the fact that they are human, and it almost makes sense why there is such a disparity over who benefited from the calls the most on a game by game basis.

These are good points you are making but you are sticking with the free throw numbers thing. Were Bibby, Christie, and Jackson not fouled when they took these? Were Kobe and Shaq getting fouled without going to the line? Fouls are not something you can prove with stats. You have to see it with your own eyes to know if it was a foul or not. And you can make the case that maybe the refs did a really bad job that night. But if that's the case, why wasn't Kobe suspended for his elbow to Bibby's face after the fact? Why were the refs not only not punished but rewarded by officiating the Finals that year? I know there is no hard facts to prove it one way or the other, but if you look at the evidence on both sides and you had to put money down, would you bet that game 6 was fixed or just horribly officiated?

ldawg
03-22-2011, 08:25 PM
These are good points you are making but you are sticking with the free throw numbers thing. Were Bibby, Christie, and Jackson not fouled when they took these? Were Kobe and Shaq getting fouled without going to the line? Fouls are not something you can prove with stats. You have to see it with your own eyes to know if it was a foul or not. And you can make the case that maybe the refs did a really bad job that night. But if that's the case, why wasn't Kobe suspended for his elbow to Bibby's face after the fact? Why were the refs not only not punished but rewarded by officiating the Finals that year? I know there is no hard facts to prove it one way or the other, but if you look at the evidence on both sides and you had to put money down, would you bet that game 6 was fixed or just horribly officiated? If it makes you feel better Kobe is on the no calls list now. He get hack nightly with no calls and on the other hand you can't even breath on Lebron and Wade. NBA is rigged

ldawg
03-22-2011, 08:41 PM
I think if Kobe get the Star calls he deserve and work hard for he would have been on Jordan Level, i think after the rape scandal the NBA held a witch hunt on him. Its remarkable he was able to hush and prove all haters wrong and to this day he is trying to prevent the nba from sinking him. for that i do think he is the real deal most other players would have faded.