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hotpotato1092
03-18-2011, 08:40 PM
Where would Shaq rank in history if he was always in shape, healthy, and motivated? How many rings would he have? I was thinking about this earlier, and other than Magic and Bird, has any superstar ever had more help than Shaq? If he were always at his best, there's no reason he couldn't have doubled the amount of rings he currently has. Look at his teams over the course of his career:

- Four seasons in Orlando, three with Penny, one of which definitely could have been a title.

- Nine seasons in LA, all with Kobe, seven with Phil Jackson, one with Gary Payton and Karl Malone, I'm still of the belief that Kobe and Shaq should have won at least five titles.

- Four seasons in Miami, all with Dwyane Wade, one with Stan Van Gundy as coach, three with Pat Riley as coach. Easily could have won it their first year together, but Wade's injury was the real culprit, Shaq was motivated, what is inexcusable is their drop after the title, I think they still had one or two in them.

- Two seasons with Nash and Amare in Phoenix, given the talent level I'd say a ring was possible, though not likely.

- One season with LeBron in Cleveland, definitely could have won a ring.

- One (potentially two) seasons with the big four in Boston, could potentially win a ring or two.

So by my count, Shaq has played 20 seasons, all but one with a star or stars, most of which with very good coaches, yet he only has four rings. A lot of this, particularly during his time with the Lakers, was due to his lack of motivation. He always came to camp fat, if he "got hurt on company time" he'd "heal one company time", and basically just used the regular season to play himself into good enough shape to be dominant in the playoffs. But what if Shaq had the mentality of a Jordan or Kobe? What if Shaq spent every summer working his *** off to stay in shape, perfecting new skills, rehabilitating from previous injuries, and overall making sure he'd be the best player he could be. What kind of career are we looking at? Personally, I think there would be no historical precedent for this. A healthy, motivated Shaq over the course of a full season once averaged 30 points, 14 rebounds, and 3 blocks per game. That was the '99-'00 season (the one where I believe he cared the most). Imagine a whole career of that. Imagine if as he got older, he learned to rework his game to remain almost as effective, but with less touches (like Duncan this year). Honestly, I think his prime would have extended well into his Miami years, and he would have been a legit all star through his time in Phoenix and maybe even last year. Most of all though, I think he'd have eight or nine rings. Personally, I think if Shaq cared, he'd be unequivocally the greatest player of all time. Thoughts?

John Walls Era
03-18-2011, 08:46 PM
He is one of the greatest players... at C at least

hotpotato1092
03-18-2011, 08:48 PM
He is one of the greatest players... at C at least

But he could have been so much greater.

AntiG
03-18-2011, 08:53 PM
Greatest of all time. Even with him being lazy, he makes a legit argument for top 5 all time, maybe even top 2 or 3.

Jewelz0376
03-18-2011, 08:54 PM
You put Kobe/Jordan/Durant, etc... work ethic and determination into Shaq, he would've have gone down as a top 3 player... He would have at least 2 or 3 more rings...I can't say he would be the GOAT just because it's too much to assume that he would surpass Jordan...but in Shaqs prime he was the most dominant player I had ever seen...

CB29
03-18-2011, 09:09 PM
you gotta realize that he was a centre in the 90's... still he was extraordinarily dominant in an era when big men were aplenty... not like now where no one has good centers... Shaq played against hakeem, david robinson, mourning etc... and he still averaged almost 30 ppg and was a beast defensively... there's a reason why he won all those mvps over kobe... shaq was a monster

Kevj77
03-18-2011, 09:23 PM
He still wouldn't be better than Jordan, but if he had MJs work ethic he would have been the Greatest C of all-time and top 5 in the history of the NBA.

GREATNESS ONE
03-18-2011, 09:23 PM
GOAT without even question. You're telling me a Prime Shaq for 5+ years extra:speechless: Easily would've ended up with 6+ Rings and all the awards.

Hangtime
03-18-2011, 09:24 PM
If this guy had a serious enough work ethic and kept himself in excellent shape and chose to elevate his game in other areas and continued to expand his game with more post moves and outside shots and free throws he would have not only achieved more scoring titles but lead the league in rebounding, blocked shots, gotten defensive player of the year awards and possibly more ships and MVP's. He always played with talent loaded teams that made him the focal point in his early years. It's scary how much potential Shaq could have had if he focused solely on Basketball.

Raidaz4Life
03-18-2011, 09:28 PM
I actually feel he would have easily been the GOAT if he had even a half decent work ethic. He dominated the most competitive era in basketball for big men.... he dominated it. And this is someone who had no work ethic whatsoever.

Lim
03-18-2011, 09:31 PM
GOAT imo

B'sCeltsPatsSox
03-18-2011, 09:44 PM
I would say top five. As of right now he probably is top ten.

Lake_Show2416
03-18-2011, 11:58 PM
He would be the greatest of all time

tc2deuce
03-19-2011, 12:19 AM
most dominating center ever

Arch Stanton
03-19-2011, 12:32 AM
Top 5.

Big Ken
03-19-2011, 12:36 AM
Shaq= GOAT

Geargo Wallace
03-19-2011, 12:49 AM
How can a non-SG be the GOAT?!?!?! THIS IS ABSURD!!!!!!!!!

hotpotato1092
03-19-2011, 12:58 AM
Another big thing I just realized, if he would have been motivated to work harder on his game, he might have actually been able to maintain a respectable free throw percentage. Imagine Shaq in his prime if he could hit free throws, he'd be truly unstoppable.

shep33
03-19-2011, 01:05 AM
It got ugly in La when he wasn't watching his weight. He literallly balooned, and it was sad because they could've won a couple more if he was in prime shape. People don't often point out that after Shaq got traded to Miami he lost 20-30 lbs. That in itself demonstrates how he didn't care as much about his body in those final years in LA.

Yankees Suck
03-19-2011, 01:12 AM
Shaq= Amazing.

small3
03-19-2011, 01:14 AM
most dominating center ever

wilt son, wilt

Raph12
03-19-2011, 01:17 AM
Most dominant offensive player of alltime, easily... Could've been pretty damn special if he met his potential, but that could be said about 90% of the guys in the league.

GREATNESS ONE
03-19-2011, 01:47 AM
It got ugly in La when he wasn't watching his weight. He literallly balooned, and it was sad because they could've won a couple more if he was in prime shape. People don't often point out that after Shaq got traded to Miami he lost 20-30 lbs. That in itself demonstrates how he didn't care as much about his body in those final years in LA.

pfft not only that but the 10mill pay reduction he took in Miami, instead of the 40mill he asked LA for showed a lot too.

GREATNESS ONE
03-19-2011, 01:49 AM
wilt son, wilt

I respect Wilt 100% but there wasn't a man in the history of the game that could've stopped a Prime Shaq.

PurpleJesus
03-19-2011, 02:00 AM
one of the most dominant players ever...a defense was created called hack a shaq to put him on the FT line every time he touched the ball.

JasonJohnHorn
03-19-2011, 06:47 AM
There is no doubt in my mind, that given his amazing physical gifts, if Shaq had the work ethic and drive of Karl Malone, Kidd, Duncan, Stockton, MJ, Kareem, Mutumbo, Kobe or Hakeem, he would have been the most dominant player since Wilt, and perhaps even more dominant than Wilt.

Shaq though seemed pretty content with his natural abilities. His rebounding and shot blocking started dropping far earlier than they should have, as did his scoring, and though he did dramatically improve his passing skills (most especially when he got to the Lakers), he never really seemed to take enough pride in his offense to develop a jump shot of any sort, or work on the foot work like Hakeem did. You give Shaq the foot work and jumper of Garnett, and the guy would have been dropping 40 points a game without trying.

His perimeter defence was always lacking in my book (Sabonis had an easy time dropping long jumpers and 3s on Shaq, and Shaq always had trouble guarding Cs that could roll out and shoot on the pick and roll.

Had he had the physical conditioning of Malone, Stockton, Jordan, Kobe, Kareem, he just would have destroyed every team in the league.

On the plus side, the league was a lot funner to watch than it would have been had he had that type of motivation and conditioning, because if he had, it just would have been the Lakers: 99, 00, 01, 2, 3 ,4 ,5 ,6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. Look at what Kareem, Malone and Stockton were posting when they were 40. Shaq seems happy with a role on the bench with a contender. Those guys were still key players in title contenders success.

magichatnumber9
03-19-2011, 08:09 AM
This thread is making my head numb. How do you know Shaq is lazy? Give me some sources or something. Speculation is pointless. Plus you probably have no idea what it's like being in Shaq's frame? I think it's amazing that a giant like Shaq lasted longer then 6 years in the league and has played so many NBA minutes. Yao and Bynum are the only ones in the league with a Shaq type frame. There both injured a lot. Right.

Raidaz4Life
03-19-2011, 09:18 AM
This thread is making my head numb. How do you know Shaq is lazy? Give me some sources or something. Speculation is pointless. Plus you probably have no idea what it's like being in Shaq's frame? I think it's amazing that a giant like Shaq lasted longer then 6 years in the league and has played so many NBA minutes. Yao and Bynum are the only ones in the league with a Shaq type frame. There both injured a lot. Right.

Well.... since you seem to be the only one out of the loop on this one.... here is a direct quote from Phil Jackson


"He's the one guy that didn't really like to work. I know Pat got him working here in Miami. We had a hard time getting him to work. All the other players -- Michael, Scottie, Dennis Rodman, all those guys that we had, Horace Grant, they're all hard-working practice and personal work players."

Source: AOL News (http://www.aolnews.com/2006/12/26/phil-jackson-says-shaq-is-lazy-and-wade-travels/)

magichatnumber9
03-19-2011, 09:53 AM
Well.... since you seem to be the only one out of the loop on this one.... here is a direct quote from Phil Jackson



Source: AOL News (http://www.aolnews.com/2006/12/26/phil-jackson-says-shaq-is-lazy-and-wade-travels/)None of those guys had Shaq's frame. Shaq has survived without a career threatining injury because he knew how to pace himself. His career might of been cut way short if he spent more time in the gym. Remember big guys like him have different issues then a 6 foot 6 230 lb guy. just in case your out of the loop.

mikealike305
03-19-2011, 09:54 AM
^ lol nice

mikealike305
03-19-2011, 09:55 AM
None of those guys had Shaq's frame. Shaq has survived without a career threatining injury because he knew how to pace himself. His career might of been cut way short if he spent more time in the gym. Remember big guys like him have different issues then a 6 foot 6 230 lb guy. just in case your out of the loop.

lol shaq was lazy dude.... phil jackson said it himself....

Sly Guy
03-19-2011, 09:58 AM
I think this question should be restated "if shaq were motivated enough to learn how to make free throws..."

Raidaz4Life
03-19-2011, 10:00 AM
None of those guys had Shaq's frame. Shaq has survived without a career threatining injury because he knew how to pace himself. His career might of been cut way short if he spent more time in the gym. Remember big guys like him have different issues then a 6 foot 6 230 lb guy. just in case your out of the loop.

Well to continue on with my quote theme.... you just said


"This thread is making my head numb. How do you know Shaq is lazy? Give me some sources or something. Speculation is pointless."


I gave a legitimate source documenting a poor work ethic... thus ending this "speculation" and what do you do? You proceed to give an entire speculative post saying why my post that has a well documented source is wrong? Lets not be hypocritical or anything. You do not have a lick of proof as to why anything you just said is right....It is all completely speculative on your part and thus holds no value in this conversation.

Young and Stupid
03-19-2011, 10:21 AM
I gave a legitimate source documenting a poor work ethic... thus ending this "speculation" and what do you do? You proceed to give an entire speculative post saying why my post that has a well documented source is wrong? Lets not be hypocritical or anything. You do not have a lick of proof as to why anything you just said is right....It is all completely speculative on your part and thus holds no value in this conversation.

You know for someone with the potential to employ logic so effectively -- as you just have -- I find it fascinating that you hold to an ideology that is founded on little-to-no logic.

However, in regards to your post, you're right. He's not going to change his mindset no matter how many quotes you provide, he's set on his opinion and will quickly turn it into a circular argument.

If Shaq cared I think he could probably have nine or ten rings and a few more MVPs. He would have been the most dominant player of all-time -- more than Wilt -- posting multiple seasons similar to the one he put up in '99. Although, it should be noted that he probably wouldn't have been the same entertaining, charismatic, comical Shaq that we all have grown accustomed to.

Would you rather have watched the serious Shaq (who as I said, probably would have won closer to ten championships) or the Shaq that we saw? I'd probably choose the latter for an array of reasons. Good question by the OP though.

magichatnumber9
03-19-2011, 10:23 AM
Well to continue on with my quote theme.... you just said


"This thread is making my head numb. How do you know Shaq is lazy? Give me some sources or something. Speculation is pointless."


I gave a legitimate source documenting a poor work ethic... thus ending this "speculation" and what do you do? You proceed to give an entire speculative post saying why my post that has a well documented source is wrong? Lets not be hypocritical or anything. You do not have a lick of proof as to why anything you just said is right....It is all completely speculative on your part and thus holds no value in this conversation."Love is the force that ignites the spirit and binds teams together." "If you meet the Buddha in the lane, feed him the ball." Yup Phil Jackson has said many things. Phil trashes everybody in his cute books. Shaq is writing a book and if he says he was lazy I'll believe it. Until then I'm not hearing **** from Kobe and Phil. There is no such thing as water under the bridge when it comes to guys that competitive. I want better sources, is that to much to ask.

MacFitz92
03-19-2011, 10:29 AM
most dominating center ever

No, that would be Wilt Chamberlain or even Bill Russell.

magichatnumber9
03-19-2011, 10:37 AM
If we do one of these for Shaq could we do one for Wilt Chamberlain? Because he didn't care about winning as much as his stats. Imagine how many championships he could of won. **** at least I can get quotes from Wilt himself, then the words of a bitter old man.

kurivaimu
03-19-2011, 10:50 AM
The poll is somewhat wrong, especially the option like top20 or even top10. To me he is top 10 all time.
He dominated the game in his prime, and that was a time where nba was full of talented centers. The nba changes rules because of him. It was just ridiculous how dominant he was.

Raidaz4Life
03-19-2011, 10:50 AM
You know for someone with the potential to employ logic so effectively -- as you just have -- I find it fascinating that you hold to an ideology that is founded on little-to-no logic.


Ha I am actually told this on a regular basis.

kurivaimu
03-19-2011, 10:51 AM
And to the proposed question: where would shaq rank with work ethic. i say top 2. Can't see him overtaking Jordan but other than that..shaq owns

Raidaz4Life
03-19-2011, 10:53 AM
"Love is the force that ignites the spirit and binds teams together." "If you meet the Buddha in the lane, feed him the ball." Yup Phil Jackson has said many things. Phil trashes everybody in his cute books. Shaq is writing a book and if he says he was lazy I'll believe it. Until then I'm not hearing **** from Kobe and Phil. There is no such thing as water under the bridge when it comes to guys that competitive. I want better sources, is that to much to ask.

Sir, there is a little thing called "the burden of proof" and as of right now you are currently its bearer.... not myself. Everyone in this thread is already aware that Shaq has a poor work ethic.... you are the only one doubting it. We gain nothing by trying to convince you when it is quite obvious you have no intention of listening to reason.

RaiderLakersA's
03-19-2011, 11:08 AM
I strongly feel that Shaq would be the GOAT and would have as many rings as Bill Russell.

Shaq in his prime was the kind of player that changed how refs called the game. A foul was no longer a foul. It cut both ways. Shaq got fouled often with no calls made, but he also bowled people over and dislodged defenders on his way to the basket -- something that probably would have been called an offensive foul before Shaq came into the league. To a lesser extent, we still see that in play today. All of those 500+ fouls that never get called for D. Howard are kind of the by-product of the "Shaq Factor." Big men now are expected to take the punishment and shake it off.

magichatnumber9
03-19-2011, 11:24 AM
lol shaq was lazy dude.... phil jackson said it himself....Then I'm convinced

Brooklyn Mets
03-19-2011, 12:00 PM
i was going to put top ten but if you really think about it if shaq was healthy and motivated throughout his career i would have to say he would be top five of all time.. since the ewing mutombo mourning olajuwon era there has been an obvious lack of quality bigs in the league (aside from d12) so he would be able to dominate almost every game on the schedule.. there are a lot of good centers around the league but no great centers.. if someone came into the league today at 7'1'' 325+ lbs averaging 23 pts 3.5 blocks and 14 rebounds per game at 20 years old you cant help but to think that they are going to be one of the best players in the league for years to come..

Raph12
03-19-2011, 03:17 PM
wilt son, wilt

Prime Shaq would eat Wilt for breakfast, lunch and dinner...

blastmasta26
03-19-2011, 05:44 PM
I think he would be the greatest of all time. He was absolutely dominant, and when he was younger he was pretty athletic and nimble as well. Had he worked hard every offseason, he would've been unstoppable. Him and Kobe would have combined for almost a decade of championships in LA and Shaq would be Finals MVP each time.

LA_Raiders
03-19-2011, 05:53 PM
Top 5 for sure and at least 7 rings...

abe_froman
03-19-2011, 05:54 PM
that would have been frightening.top 3 all time

DeadlyVeyerus31
03-19-2011, 06:29 PM
Just think if Shaq could have actually shot a decent percent from the free throw line. Teams wouldn't have been able to just send him to the free throw line. He is already top 5, would have been top 2.

mgeise
03-19-2011, 07:08 PM
I think he would have been right up there with Jordan (so, top 2) if he had a Kobe/MJ-type work ethic and attitude towards the game. I think it almost adds to his legacy that he wasn't always motivated yet still is probably a top 10 player.

The Dude Abides
03-20-2011, 12:10 PM
I think Shaq cares more than you think, after all he has won four rings. Top 5 for sure.

Steelers23_06
03-20-2011, 12:42 PM
What is everyone posting on this thread in high school? do you guys not remember how unstoppable shaq was. you guys dont think shaq cared? why do you think he's playing now because he cares. yeah did he get out of shape yes but he plans on playing next season too. who would have thought shaq would be playing til he was 40 :eyebrow:

he was the second most dominant player in modern day nba era. you guys forget that kobe was THE REAL SUPERMANS sidekick. Also wade doesnt win his ring without shaq. Shaq is going to be key come playoffs for the celtics. does anyone know whats wrong with shaq? nothing theyre saving him for the playoffs. shaq has moves that no big man in the league will ever be able to do that includes the supposed "superman 2.0". his moves were unreal. what more do you want from him. too bad you guys dont remember this shaq:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS5mIncSQf4
(oh yeah he could rap too haha)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JF3bObM_-0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYJH4t6b0WQ

just to refresh your memory.

hotpotato1092
03-20-2011, 06:21 PM
What is everyone posting on this thread in high school? do you guys not remember how unstoppable shaq was. you guys dont think shaq cared? why do you think he's playing now because he cares. yeah did he get out of shape yes but he plans on playing next season too. who would have thought shaq would be playing til he was 40 :eyebrow:

he was the second most dominant player in modern day nba era. you guys forget that kobe was THE REAL SUPERMANS sidekick. Also wade doesnt win his ring without shaq. Shaq is going to be key come playoffs for the celtics. does anyone know whats wrong with shaq? nothing theyre saving him for the playoffs. shaq has moves that no big man in the league will ever be able to do that includes the supposed "superman 2.0". his moves were unreal. what more do you want from him. too bad you guys dont remember this shaq:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS5mIncSQf4
(oh yeah he could rap too haha)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JF3bObM_-0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYJH4t6b0WQ

just to refresh your memory.

He came to camp fat and out of shape pretty much every year unless he had something to prove, he refused to rehab over summers ("I got hurt on company time so I'll heal on company time"), he spent his offseasons making movies and rap albums rather than working on his game, and he wore out his welcome pretty much everywhere he went. Nobody's questioning how great of a player he is/was, but we're saying he could have been a much better player if he cared like Kobe or MJ. If he played every season in awesome shape, used his summers to rehab, and maybe learned to defer a little bit so his star teammates didn't hate him, he could have been the greatest ever.

KG21
03-20-2011, 06:35 PM
wilt son, wilt

LOL at that poor attempt.

Shaq would MURDER his *** under the rim!

KG21
03-20-2011, 06:37 PM
None of those guys had Shaq's frame. Shaq has survived without a career threatining injury because he knew how to pace himself. His career might of been cut way short if he spent more time in the gym. Remember big guys like him have different issues then a 6 foot 6 230 lb guy. just in case your out of the loop.

Right on the money!

KG21
03-20-2011, 06:41 PM
Prime Shaq would eat Wilt for breakfast, lunch and dinner...

Sooo mofo true! And to add, shaq would steal his lunch money.

KnicksorBust
03-20-2011, 06:44 PM
He came to camp fat and out of shape pretty much every year unless he had something to prove, he refused to rehab over summers ("I got hurt on company time so I'll heal on company time"), he spent his offseasons making movies and rap albums rather than working on his game, and he wore out his welcome pretty much everywhere he went. Nobody's questioning how great of a player he is/was, but we're saying he could have been a much better player if he cared like Kobe or MJ. If he played every season in awesome shape, used his summers to rehab, and maybe learned to defer a little bit so his star teammates didn't hate him, he could have been the greatest ever.

Spot on. Right now he's top 10 but he definately could have been top 5 because the opportunities to have better stats and more rings were there. If he cared maybe he and Kobe could have co-existed and been an even more dominant dynasty. Duncan had no problem lettin TP get a Finals MVP vs. the Cavs.

KG21
03-20-2011, 06:45 PM
What is everyone posting on this thread in high school? do you guys not remember how unstoppable shaq was. you guys dont think shaq cared? why do you think he's playing now because he cares. yeah did he get out of shape yes but he plans on playing next season too. who would have thought shaq would be playing til he was 40 :eyebrow:

he was the second most dominant player in modern day nba era. you guys forget that kobe was THE REAL SUPERMANS sidekick. Also wade doesnt win his ring without shaq. Shaq is going to be key come playoffs for the celtics. does anyone know whats wrong with shaq? nothing theyre saving him for the playoffs. shaq has moves that no big man in the league will ever be able to do that includes the supposed "superman 2.0". his moves were unreal. what more do you want from him. too bad you guys dont remember this shaq:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS5mIncSQf4
(oh yeah he could rap too haha)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JF3bObM_-0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYJH4t6b0WQ

just to refresh your memory.

Yeah people keep forgetting.
I will always remember him as the best all time C's ever! (Yeah wilt can suck it)

Bruno
03-20-2011, 07:29 PM
Spot on. Right now he's top 10 but he definately could have been top 5 because the opportunities to have better stats and more rings were there. If he cared maybe he and Kobe could have co-existed and been an even more dominant dynasty. Duncan had no problem lettin TP get a Finals MVP vs. the Cavs.

Agreed. Laker nation owes a lot to Shaq, but at the same time he did a lot of things that were un-professional and counter-active to the success of the team (pre/post 3 peat).

Hopefully when he retires P&G nation can put the Shaq drama behind them, recognize how special he was, retire his number, and welcome him back w/ a warm reception.

What he did in 99-00 is still the most dominant individual play I've ever seen live (mind you I started watching in '96, post Jordans physical prime).

KnicksorBust
03-20-2011, 07:54 PM
Agreed. Laker nation owes a lot to Shaq, but at the same time he did a lot of things that were un-professional and counter-active to the success of the team (pre/post 3 peat).

Hopefully when he retires P&G nation can put the Shaq drama behind them, recognize how special he was, retire his number, and welcome him back w/ a warm reception.

What he did in 99-00 is still the most dominant individual play I've ever seen live (mind you I started watching in '96, post Jordans physical prime).

I was young but still remember watching a Knicks vs. Bulls game in the family room of my parent's house. I don't remember what year. I don't remember the score. I just remember that the Knicks were winning with like a minute left and I was just sitting there staring at the screen thinking "Jordan is going to score here." I fully believed it. He proceeded to dribble around and through our whole defense (keep in mind this is 90s Knicks defense) for a layup and just made it look so easy. Like we were in slow motion and he was in regular speed. It's a shame we'll never know how those 90s Bulls teams would have stacked up against those early 2000 Lakers teams. That would have been a legendary series.

Bruno
03-20-2011, 08:04 PM
I was young but still remember watching a Knicks vs. Bulls game in the family room of my parent's house. I don't remember what year. I don't remember the score. I just remember that the Knicks were winning with like a minute left and I was just sitting there staring at the screen thinking "Jordan is going to score here." I fully believed it. He proceeded to dribble around and through our whole defense (keep in mind this is 90s Knicks defense) for a layup and just made it look so easy. Like we were in slow motion and he was in regular speed.

It's a shame we'll never know how those 90s Bulls teams would have stacked up against those early 2000 Lakers teams. That would have been a legendary series.

That's funny. I have similar memories of watching the Lakers and Jazz in the playoffs in '97/'98.

And I totally agree w/ the last part of your post, that's something I've always wondered. Unlike the show-time Lakers, the Bulls split-up before anyone could beat them; brilliant idea.

Which team would Phil have coached?! :laugh2: Probably the Bulls if MJ stayed. Who would have coached the Lakers if Phil stayed? Everything would be different.

magichatnumber9
03-20-2011, 08:06 PM
Right on the money!I know hahaha. Guy is playing in his late 30's. That's unreal.

sjoerdje
03-22-2011, 07:48 AM
the Big Dude is already in the top 5 for me. with an Kobe/Mj drive, wauw...
Goat then not doubt

blacknell
03-22-2011, 08:48 AM
best center of all time

blue collar B
03-22-2011, 08:56 AM
Goat for sure, he's already top 5 for me.

Double_R
03-22-2011, 10:09 AM
He would have been top 5... There is no way you can pass a guy like Jordan that dominated more games than anyone, while doing it from the wing. The dude who said he could have had one in Orlando, not true. He did care while he was in Orlando and got swept in the Finals by a better center at the time Hakeem, got swept in the 1st round by the Pacers, got swept by Jordan's Bulls in the ECF.

magichatnumber9
03-22-2011, 10:17 AM
In 2003 Sports-illustrated called Shaq the greatest player of all time. Just because he didn't retire shortly after he's slipped. Please

JJ81
03-22-2011, 10:57 AM
It's not that he doesn't care, he just cannot compete like he used to, it happens to everyone!