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John Walls Era
03-17-2011, 11:49 PM
My friend and I were discussing this today. The ORtg formula is:


Offensive Rating = (Points Produced / Individual Possessions) x 100

Individual possession counts as every possession the team gets when you're on the court or only when you touch the ball on a possession?

If its the latter than yes it would be a good indicator, but if its the first part then how is ORtg any better than just looking at FG% or PER?

This isn't a thread to diss ORtg, but I want to learn more about this.

DenButsu
03-19-2011, 10:02 AM
It seems pretty clear to me, based on the following, that the definition of "individual possessions" clearly meets your criteria of "only when [the player touches] the ball on a possession".

From Dean Oliver's old site (http://www.rawbw.com/~deano/helpscrn/iposs.html):


Individual Possessions
Definition

The number of team possessions that an individual can claim responsibility for through individual scoring possessions, missed shots, and turnovers.
Example

On a scoring possession (see next definition below), a player receives the same number of total possessions. On a missed field goal that is not rebounded or on a turnover, that player receives a total possession.


Individual Scoring Possessions
Definition

The number of team scoring possessions that an individual can claim responsibility for through made field goals, free throws, assists, or offensive rebounds.
Example

A player assists a teammate on a made basket and is credited with roughly 25% of one scoring possession; the teammate who makes the basket receives roughly 75% of one scoring possession. The amount of credit given to the various players depends upon the difficulty of their contribution to the score.

DenButsu
03-19-2011, 10:10 AM
Here is a list of the leaders in offensive rating among players this season with 30+ games and 22+ minutes per game (my arbitrary qualifiers):

Rk Player ORtg
1 Tyson Chandler 131
2 Nene Hilario 126
3 Amir Johnson 125
4 Kevin Love 124
5 Chris Paul 124
6 Arron Afflalo 123
7 Ed Davis 123
8 Danilo Gallinari 123
9 Pau Gasol 123
10 Andrew Bynum 122
11 Chuck Hayes 121
12 Al Horford 121
13 Dirk Nowitzki 121
14 Chauncey Billups 120
15 Serge Ibaka 120
16 Landry Fields 119
17 Steve Nash 119
18 Lamar Odom 119
19 Ray Allen 118
20 Marcin Gortat 118
21 James Harden 118
22 Kevin Martin 118
23 Greg Monroe 118
24 Francisco Garcia 117
25 Jodie Meeks 117
26 J.J. Redick 117
27 Beno Udrih 117
28 Manu Ginobili 116
29 Eric Gordon 116
30 DeAndre Jordan 116
31 Ty Lawson 116
32 Paul Pierce 116
33 Shane Battier 115
34 Nicolas Batum 115
35 Jared Dudley 115
36 Kevin Durant 115
37 LeBron James 115
38 Richard Jefferson 115
39 Nenad Krstic 115
40 Josh McRoberts 115
41 Joakim Noah 115
42 LaMarcus Aldridge 114
43 D.J. Augustin 114
44 Stephen Curry 114
45 Mike Dunleavy 114
46 George Hill 114
47 Kyle Lowry 114
48 Anthony Morrow 114
49 Tony Parker 114
50 Zach Randolph 114

KnicksorBust
03-19-2011, 07:13 PM
I like ORtg because it values scoring efficiency and the ability to create for teammates.

I STRONGLY dislike ORtg because guys who take 5 shots per game can lead the league in offensive rating. Like with many stats it's a mixed bag.

DenButsu
03-19-2011, 10:42 PM
Here's a list of offensive rating/defensive rating differential. Kind of interesting to see how it stacks up to PER.


Rank Player PER ORtg DRtg Rtg Diff
1 Tyson Chandler 18.7 131 103 28
2 Chris Paul 24.7 124 101 23
3 Andrew Bynum 21.5 122 101 21
4 Pau Gasol 23.5 123 103 20
5 Nene Hilario 21.1 126 106 20
6 Dwight Howard 25.9 112 94 18
7 Joakim Noah 18.8 115 97 18
8 Kevin Love 24.6 124 107 17
9 Al Horford 21.7 121 104 17
10 Kevin Garnett 20.6 110 94 16
11 Lamar Odom 19.8 119 103 16
12 Paul Pierce 19.5 116 100 16
13 Amir Johnson 18.4 125 109 16
14 Serge Ibaka 17.6 120 104 16
15 Dirk Nowitzki 24.4 121 106 15
16 Ray Allen 17.3 118 103 15
17 Chuck Hayes 16.4 121 106 15
18 LeBron James 26.9 115 101 14
19 Marcin Gortat 17.4 118 104 14
20 Ed Davis 15.9 123 109 14
21 Manu Ginobili 22 116 104 12
22 Chris Bosh 19.1 113 102 11
23 Elton Brand 18.4 113 102 11
24 Emeka Okafor 16.2 111 100 11
25 D. Gallinari 16 123 112 11
26 Josh McRoberts 15.9 115 104 11
27 Arron Afflalo 13.6 123 112 11
28 Ronnie Brewer 13.4 109 98 11
29 J.J. Redick 12.8 117 106 11
30 Dwyane Wade 24.9 112 102 10
31 Tim Duncan 21.4 109 99 10
32 James Harden 16.2 118 108 10
33 Brandon Bass 16.1 113 103 10
34 DeAndre Jordan 14.5 116 106 10
35 Landry Fields 14.2 119 109 10
36 Derrick Rose 23 111 102 9
37 Zach Randolph 22.3 114 105 9
38 C. Billups 18.9 120 111 9
39 Greg Monroe 17.2 118 109 9
40 Jodie Meeks 13 117 108 9
41 Kurt Thomas 10.1 107 98 9
42 Kevin Durant 24 115 107 8
43 L. Aldridge 21.8 114 106 8
44 David West 20.3 111 103 8
45 Andre Iguodala 18 111 103 8
46 Luol Deng 15.4 110 102 8
47 F. Garcia 14.7 117 109 8
48 Mike Dunleavy 14.2 114 106 8
49 Kevin Martin 22 118 111 7
50 Tony Parker 20.7 114 107 7
51 Carlos Boozer 19.5 106 99 7
52 Kris Humphries 17.8 111 104 7
53 George Hill 14 114 107 7
54 Taj Gibson 13.9 105 98 7
55 Nenad Krstic 13.7 115 108 7
56 Hedo Turkoglu 13.3 112 105 7
57 Shane Battier 12.6 115 108 7
58 R. Jefferson 12.3 115 108 7
59 Steve Nash 21.5 119 113 6
60 Paul Millsap 19.5 113 107 6
61 Thaddeus Young 17.8 110 104 6
62 Ty Lawson 17.4 116 110 6
63 Marc Gasol 16 111 105 6
64 Beno Udrih 15.3 117 111 6
65 Nicolas Batum 14.1 115 109 6
66 Kobe Bryant 23.6 111 106 5
67 Rajon Rondo 17.1 104 99 5
68 J. Richardson 15.3 111 106 5
69 Jason Kidd 15 110 105 5
70 Jared Dudley 14.2 115 110 5
71 L. Mbah a Moute 11.4 107 102 5
72 Thabo Sefolosha 10.2 110 105 5
73 Blake Griffin 21.7 111 107 4
74 Eric Gordon 20.9 116 112 4
75 Al Jefferson 20.4 112 108 4
76 JaVale McGee 16.9 110 106 4
77 Kyle Lowry 16.2 114 110 4
78 Wesley Matthews 15.5 113 109 4
79 Marcus Camby 15.3 103 99 4
80 A. Varejao 15.1 113 109 4
81 R. Westbrook 23.7 110 107 3
82 Louis Williams 18.6 111 108 3
83 Andre Miller 18 111 108 3
84 Rudy Gay 17.9 108 105 3
85 A. Kirilenko 16.6 112 109 3
86 D.J. Augustin 16.1 114 111 3
87 Jameer Nelson 15 108 105 3
88 Rudy Fernandez 14.4 110 107 3
89 Ersan Ilyasova 14 104 101 3
90 Kenyon Martin 13.9 108 105 3
91 A. Stoudemire 23.5 110 108 2
92 Deron Williams 21.2 114 112 2
93 Stephen Curry 19.7 114 112 2
94 Josh Smith 18.9 103 101 2
95 Mike Conley 16.2 109 107 2
96 J.R. Smith 16.1 108 106 2
97 Luke Ridnour 15.4 114 112 2
98 Channing Frye 12.7 110 108 2
99 Kwame Brown 12.5 109 107 2
100 Andris Biedrins 12.1 109 107 2
101 Mike Bibby 11.2 111 109 2
102 Mario Chalmers 10.8 105 103 2
103 Danny Granger 17.4 107 106 1
104 Shawn Marion 16.6 106 105 1
105 Andrew Bogut 16.4 98 97 1
106 Toney Douglas 15 112 111 1
107 Marvin Williams 13 108 107 1
108 Glen Davis 12.7 101 100 1
109 Anthony Morrow 12 114 113 1
110 Jose Calderon 16.7 113 113 0
111 Corey Maggette 15.9 105 105 0
112 Grant Hill 15.2 110 110 0
113 Vince Carter 15.1 107 107 0
114 Gerald Wallace 15.1 104 104 0
115 Luis Scola 18.7 108 109 -1
116 David Lee 16.9 109 110 -1
117 Brandon Roy 15.2 108 109 -1
118 Jrue Holiday 15.2 104 105 -1
119 Dorell Wright 15.1 111 112 -1
120 Jeff Green 13 107 108 -1
121 Carlos Delfino 12.9 101 102 -1
122 Ben Wallace 12.5 105 106 -1
123 Keyon Dooling 12 105 106 -1
124 Marco Belinelli 11.6 107 108 -1
125 Ron Artest 11.1 104 105 -1
126 Derek Fisher 9.2 106 107 -1
127 Carmelo Anthony 20.9 107 109 -2
128 Brook Lopez 19 107 109 -2
129 Rodney Stuckey 17.7 111 113 -2
130 Devin Harris 17.7 109 111 -2
131 Jason Terry 16.4 107 109 -2
132 Wilson Chandler 15.3 108 110 -2
133 Carl Landry 14.8 109 111 -2
134 Boris Diaw 13.3 106 108 -2
135 Rashard Lewis 12 105 107 -2
136 Joe Johnson 17 106 109 -3
137 Raymond Felton 16.8 108 111 -3
138 C. Villanueva 15.5 108 111 -3
139 Omri Casspi 12.2 107 110 -3
140 Ryan Gomes 9.3 108 111 -3
141 Roy Hibbert 16 99 103 -4
142 Darren Collison 15.2 104 108 -4
143 B. Jennings 15.2 99 103 -4
144 Jamal Crawford 14.6 105 109 -4
145 Jason Thompson 13.3 105 109 -4
146 Kirk Hinrich 12.9 107 111 -4
147 Martell Webster 11.9 108 112 -4
148 Brandon Rush 10.5 104 108 -4
149 Ramon Sessions 18.2 109 114 -5
150 Baron Davis 16.7 104 109 -5
151 C.J. Miles 15.7 105 110 -5
152 Tracy McGrady 15.6 105 110 -5
153 John Salmons 12.3 100 105 -5
154 Raja Bell 8.7 109 114 -5
155 Monta Ellis 18.7 106 112 -6
156 Tayshaun Prince 15.3 107 114 -7
157 Nick Young 14.7 107 114 -7
158 DeMar DeRozan 14.1 107 114 -7
159 S. Dalembert 13.5 98 105 -7
160 Sasha Vujacic 11.9 102 109 -7
161 Evan Turner 10.4 98 105 -7
162 Antawn Jamison 16.8 104 112 -8
163 Daniel Gibson 12.9 107 115 -8
164 O.J. Mayo 12.2 100 108 -8
165 Trevor Ariza 10.8 95 103 -8
166 Willie Green 10.5 99 107 -8
167 Leandro Barbosa 14.8 105 114 -9
168 Stephen Jackson 14.8 99 108 -9
169 Randy Foye 11.7 103 112 -9
170 Wesley Johnson 10.5 103 112 -9
171 Andrea Bargnani 16.5 104 114 -10
172 Jordan Farmar 13.3 100 110 -10
173 Ben Gordon 13.2 104 114 -10
174 Al Harrington 11.4 99 109 -10
175 Anthony Parker 10.9 104 114 -10
176 Michael Beasley 15.4 101 112 -11
177 Andray Blatche 15.4 97 108 -11
178 R. Hamilton 15.2 104 115 -11
179 D. Cousins 14.8 94 105 -11
180 Tyreke Evans 14.7 98 109 -11
181 John Wall 15.2 98 110 -12
182 Gilbert Arenas 11.4 94 106 -12
183 Corey Brewer 10.3 97 109 -12
184 Aaron Brooks 12.2 100 113 -13
185 Travis Outlaw 9 98 111 -13
186 Eric Bledsoe 11.1 94 109 -15
187 J.J. Hickson 13.9 95 111 -16
188 Darko Milicic 12.2 91 107 -16
189 Mo Williams 13.8 97 114 -17
190 Sonny Weems 10.3 96 115 -19
191 Linas Kleiza 10.1 95 114 -19
192 C. Eyenga 9.3 91 112 -21

John Walls Era
03-24-2011, 08:23 PM
Alright the I like it. IMO much better indicator than DRtg.

Thanks guys, for the input.