PDA

View Full Version : NBA Redraft Playoffs: 2) Las Vegas Spreaders v. 3) San Diego Conquistadors (2nd Vote)



Mile High Champ
03-17-2011, 11:36 PM
We Had a Tie the first time around so we will do this one more time!

Hello Everyone,

Welcome to the playoff voting for the PSD NBA Redraft. Every year we basketball fans enjoy taking part in a PSD game called the NBA redraft where over 60 users participate. The point of the redraft is to draft the best team possible and the obvious goal is to be crowned champion by the NBA forum. You will notice that the team name do not represent current NBA teams. The reason why we avoided this is because we wanted to avoid a bias that exists with current team names. For example, a team that had the Chicago Bulls team name would probably experience a higher volume of votes than letís say the Memphis Grizzlies team simply because they have the larger fan base on PSD. As a result we got rid of that bias completely. Please take the time to review both teams, look at the depth chart and read the write ups to formalize your own opinion on which team would win a 7 game series. As far as injuries go, they will not be playing a factor in this Redraft though players that are continually hurt and have not had a healthy season in quite some time should be viewed as different players than what they once were (Yao, Oden, Roy etc). Thank you for voting and enjoy the match ups.

2) Las Vegas v. 3) San Diego

Las Vegas has Home Court Advantage

Las Vegas Clubhouse (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16638312&postcount=28)
[San Diego Clubhouse (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16612545&postcount=23)

Las Vegas Depth Chart
PG: Ty Lawson / Derick Fisher
SG: Kevin Martin / Reggie Williams / Dahntay Jones
SF: Trevor Ariza / Mike Dunleavy Jr
PF: Tim Duncan / Jason Maxiell / Joe Smith
C: Tyson Chandler / Kwame Brown / Derrick Favors

San Diego Depth Chart
C - Chris Kaman / Kurt Thomas / Hamed Haddadi
PF - Kevin Garnett / Shawne Williams / Brandan Wright
SF - Tayshaun Prince / James Johnson / Shawne Williams
SG - Eric Gordon / Willie Green / Charlie Bell
PG - Luke Ridnour / Aaron Brooks / Charlie Bell

Las Vegas Write Up


Here is a quick write up for next round. Just like the other, feel free to add or change anything you like.


After a great series with Honolulu, we move onto the 2nd round to play the San Diego Conquistadors.

Like I said in the first round, I hate the "><=" way of comparing players. I will just do my best to compare the strengths and weaknesses of each position.

PG: Ty Lawson vs Luke Ridnour - I feel we have a big advantage in this matchup. Lawson is really coming into his own now that he is out of Chauncey Billups shadow. He is explosive, a good play maker, and lightning quick. I don't imagine Ridnour would be able to do anything against Lawson defensively. Ridnour puts up decent stats on a awful team but there is a reason he has bounced around the league since his days in Seattle. He just isn't that good.

SG: Kevin Martin vs Eric Gordon - Not much to say here. Both are good, efficient scorers who aren't gonna do much to stop each other on the other end. Martin has a advantage in height he can exploit, while Gordon has an advantage in speed. Very even matchup.

SF: Trevor Ariza vs Tayshaun Prince: Another very even matchup. Both guys will play solid defense and pitch in 10-15 PPG on the offensive end. Both have started on championship teams in the past, and add the intangibles a good team needs.

PF: Tim Duncan vs Kevin Garnett: What can I say, another very good, even matchup. Both Duncan and Garnett are vets who know how to play great on both ends of the floor. Duncan has the superior post game while Garnett is more versatile and can step away from the basket. Can't go wrong with either guy.

C: Tyson Chandler vs Chris Kaman: If you look at the names it looks like a very even matchup, but its not. Chandler has been one of the very best centers in the NBA, especially defensively. He has truly anchored the defense. On the other hand, Kaman has spent the year being either injured or extremely ineffective. He is suppose to be the better scorer but only averages a point more than Chandler, while shooting 45% compared to Chandlers 65%. All in all, Chandler has been the much better play and even his numbers dont show how good he has been.


Bench Play:

This is where we feel we really have an advantage. Reggie Williams and Mike Dunleavy Jr. are our Co Sixth Men. Both can come in and score in bunches, giving the team a real lift. The best Sixth Man they have is Aaron Brooks, who has been awful this year. Willie Green is another solid bench piece for them, but not as good as our counterpart in Reggie Williams.

Then in the frontcourt we have alot of size to help combat KG up front. Kwame, Jason Maxiell and even Derrick Favors are big bodies we can throw at him if need be. On the other hand, I dont feel that Shawne Williams will be able to give Tim Duncan any problems at all. Kurt Thomas is a nice player but can't be counted on to do too much these days.

All in all we feel both teams really match up well in alot of ways but a few key advantages, along with home court advantage will lead to a hard fought series victory.

Good luck to San Diego.


San Diego Write Up



Overview:
These two teams are built in very similar styles. Winning styles. Both teams have youth, experience, and respectable benches (for a redraft). Looking at the names of these rosters this looks like an extremely close matchup but when you study the actual production of the players and their fit together you will see that only one team can consistently produce winning basketball on both ends of the floor. That team is San Diego.

C Ė Chris Kaman vs. Tyson Chandler
Chandlerís been having a very strong season for a great team yet he still has trouble when forced to lockdown any legit scoring center. You name it: Al Jefferson, Brook Lopez, Andrew Bynum, and even Demarcus Cousins have ALL given him problems. Check the game logs. The only legit center he really locked down this season? Undersized Al Horford. Look I know Chandlerís TS%. I know Chandlerís win shares. I also know that Iím not afraid of a center who takes 5 shots per game. I also know that heís in a dream situation with Jason Kidd and Dirk Nowitzki in Dallas. http://www.82games.com/1011/10DAL17.HTM For those of you that donít want to scan through the website Iíll break it down for you. An EXTREMELY high percentage of his shots (roughly 75% of his 5 shots per game) are assisted and are dunks/layups. With a CP3 or a Jason Kidd playing PG, heís fine. But, like in Charlotte, he would not be as successful with group of below average distributors like Fisher-Martin-Lawson-Ariza on this team. Also this season, despite his defense, heís being outscored by his opponents 18.9ppg to 17.8ppg per 48 minutes. This is in a league devoid of scoring centers. Meanwhile, Kaman is just the type of big that has given him trouble all season. Large frame, strong, good rebounder, with low post moves. Donít let Kamanís injury-plagued start fool you because since his return he is picking up right where he left off last season when he averaged 19ppg on 49% fg / 75% ft. In his last 10 games heís averaging 14ppg on a robust 55% FG and has only scored in single digits once. Considering both teams have elite defensive PFs who would you rather have at center: a shotblocker who can score in the high teens or a rebounder who averages barely over double digits on tip ins and layups? I honestly believe Iíll have an edge in production here but Iíll call it even.
Edge: Wash

PF Ė Kevin Garnett vs. Tim Duncan
Classic debate. At their peaks? Duncan. Over their careers? Duncan. In 2011? Kevin Garnett. Why? Because heís still an elite 2-way player. Both are still top 10 players in defensive rebound percentage (KG Ė 4th, Duncan Ė 9th), top 20 in defensive win shares (KG Ė 2nd, Duncan Ė 13th) and top 10 in defensive rating (KG Ė 1st, Duncan Ė 8th). Yet only 1 is in the top 20 in FG% (KG Ė 16th shooting 52%), FT% (KG Ė 17th shooting 86%), and win shares per 48 (KG Ė 13th). Garnett is scoring +15 ppg (up from last season) shooting a near career high 57% TS%. Meanwhile, Duncanís scoring has gone from 19.3ppg (2009), to 17.9ppg (2010), to 13.3ppg (2011) shooting a career low 52% TS%. Offensively Duncan has hit his drop that happens to all bigs while KG is still thriving in Boston. Vegas will have you believe the Spurs are just ďsaving himĒ for the playoffs but this is the same Tim Duncan whose playoff scoring has gone down slowly in each of the last FIVE seasons. Scoring 26ppg on 63% TS (2006), to 22ppg on 56% TS (2007), to slightly over 20ppg on 49%TS(2008), to slightly under 20ppg on 55%TS (2009) to 19ppg on 53%TS (2010) while getting SWEPT by the Suns last season. Duncan will always be the more likable player but at this point in their careers KG is clearly outperforming Duncan.
Slight Edge: San Diego

Wings Ė Eric Gordon/Tayshaun Prince vs. Kevin Martin/Trevor Ariza
Iím combining these two positions since Iím assuming he wouldnít be crazy enough to put Kevin Martin, arguably the leagueís worst perimeter defender, on Eric Gordon. If in their writeup they donít make this switch just ignore what I write below and realize that Gordon would score about 40ppg on 80% FG shooting with Martin on him. Now, letís start with the SFs. Prince scores about 15ppg on 47%FG, 38% 3pt with 3apg. Ariza scores under 11 ppg on an abysmal 39% fg, 30% 3pt with 2apg. Clear advantage San Diego. Prince can post up, hit from the perimeter and would be guarded by a vastly inferior defender in Kevin Martin. Every season Kevin Martin has been healthy his teams (Kings + Rockets) have ranked in the bottom half of the league in defensive rating. In fact the Rockets, ranked 4th in defense in 2008 before acquiring him, are now 24th in the 2011. I would anticipate Prince would score in the high teens easily abusing this mismatch. Meanwhile Ariza is not talented enough offensively to hurt us being guarded by Gordon. I love how Princeís length at 6í9 would help guarding the 6í7 Martin (who only averages 15.4ppg in 15 career games against Prince and the Pistons). Meanwhile Gordonís speed would be very difficult for Ariza. Not only does my defender better matchup with his scorer but Gordon is also more well-rounded than Martin. They are both extremely efficient scorers with Martin averaging 23ppg on 60%TS and Gordon averaging 24ppg on 58%TS. However, Gordon is also an accomplished passer, tied with Wade for 6th best SG at 4.5 APG while Martin averages under 3apg. Vegas has paired a terrible defender with a terrible offensive player while San Diegoís wings can contribute on both ends of the floor.
Edge: San Diego

PG Ė Ridnour/Brooks vs. Lawson/Fisher
Ridnour and Lawson are actually having remarkably similar seasons. http://www.basketball-reference.com/...nolu01&y2=2011
Lawson is a young player on the rise while Ridnour is an extremely consistent experienced veteran. Ridnour is a top 10 3pt shooter (43%) and FT% shooter (91%) and a very good distributor. Heís great fit at PG for my offense to space the floor and set up teammates. I also like Brookís speed off the bench vs. a slow PG like Fisher but even I have to admit this position is an advantage for Las Vegas.
Edge: Las Vegas

Bench:Kurt Thomas > Kwame Brown
Shawne Williams > Jason Maxiell
S. Williams/James Johnson < Mike Dunleavy Jr.
Willie Green = Reggie Williams
I prefer the versatility of my bench to his but this is essentially a wash. The bench for either team isnít deciding this series.
Edge: None

Summary:
This matchup boils down to one key issue. They drafted too much defense to make up for Kevin Martin. Duncanís lack of scoring is fine when you have Parker-Manu-Jefferson but not when you have Ariza and Chandler starting with him. His frontcourt (SF-PF-C) is averaging a pitiful 11.5ppg this season. Thatís not nearly enough to advance to a conference Finals. With Prince on Kevin Martin heís due to have some off-games. Look at Martinís game logs this season (especially lately). Heís highly inconsistent like any shooter. Vegas will have trouble breaking 75 points some nights. Who is going to create shots on this team? Lawson is only an average passer at 27% assist percentage. Fisher doesnít pass. Ariza doesnít pass. Martin certainly doesnít pass. Not one playmaker on that team. Meanwhile Iím getting between 15 and 25ppg from SG-SF-PF-C and a solid 12-15ppg from the point guard position. We have passing, we have scoring, we have experience, and we have defense. San Diego deserves to advance to the next round.

Chacarron
03-17-2011, 11:39 PM
I still like San Diego.

Mile High Champ
03-17-2011, 11:44 PM
I still like San Diego.

Why Exactly? Lawson over Ridnour I think puts this over the top in our favour. When you consider the speed, playmaking and scoring of Lawson, I can't see how Luke would be able to stick with him all series. Not to mention their back up Aaron Brooks is just plain awful this year. I believe 4/5 starting match ups to be very close except for PG and the bench which I think give us the edge overall.

Mile High Champ
03-17-2011, 11:46 PM
In terms of Chris Kaman. I will have to bring this back into this thread.

I know San Diego would have you believe that Kaman is a good center but that could not be any farther from the the truth. Kaman last year in his career best season posted numbers of 18 and 9. Yes good numbers at first glance but than you look a little deeper and you can see the real issue. Last year Kaman had a total of 2.4 win shares. Here is the crazy part, those win shares did not even come from offense, they were from his defense. Kaman last year posted no offensive win shares. It really does not matter who he was playing next to, those numbers are simply terrible.

Kaman also posted USG% of 27% last year and was a huge part of the clippers offense but did very little given his opportunities. Perhaps the most glaring stat is that Kaman PER last year was just a 16.5. That puts his usage last year with the likes of Nate Robinson and Brandon Bass. The guy is simply a black hole when it comes to efficiency.

This year he is even worse in every possible way. He is shooting 45%, Has -0.3 offensive win shares, his ORtg Rating is the lowest of his career at 95 and he is posting the worst TS% of his career at 45%.

All I know is that if Tim Duncan or Tyson Chandler don't take this guy out than I know KG will. I can only imagine what KG would do to Kaman if he had to tolerate that kind of terrible play on his team .. Kaman is simply not as good a center as SD would have you believe.

Ovratd1up
03-17-2011, 11:52 PM
I think Las Vegas pretty easily. San Diego is playing the name game with Kaman/Prince/KG/Brooks, all players not nearly as good as they've been in the past. The teams are actually pretty similar in design, but I just think Vegas is better.

Mile High Champ
03-17-2011, 11:58 PM
I think Las Vegas pretty easily. San Diego is playing the name game with Kaman/Prince/KG/Brooks, all players not nearly as good as they've been in the past. The teams are actually pretty similar in design, but I just think Vegas is better.

I am glad someone agrees. Brooks & Kaman are two of the worst players in the league when it comes to efficiency.

NYKalltheway
03-17-2011, 11:59 PM
I don't wanna vote here... Might seem biased :p

Mile High Champ
03-17-2011, 11:59 PM
I don't wanna vote here... Direct interest and all

Good call and thank you. :clap:

gotoHcarolina52
03-18-2011, 12:15 AM
I like Vegas and voted for them, but Mile High Champ's recent defensive posts makes me wish I hadn't done so.

PhillyLuver
03-18-2011, 12:41 AM
I don't wanna vote here... Might seem biased :p

You voted for me last time, how does it being a re vote change anything at all

NYKalltheway
03-18-2011, 12:59 AM
You voted for me last time, how does it being a re vote change anything at all

You're kinda right :eyebrow: I guess it doesn't matter if I vote or not but since I already made up my mind on it (in a way) I should actually vote

It's not that I can afford to have a preference really :D

PhillyLuver
03-18-2011, 01:41 AM
Well, it does matter if you vote, it matters quite a bit especially considering the tie first round.

not sure what you mean by the second part

Mr. Baller
03-18-2011, 02:03 AM
SD once again in 7

The_Jamal
03-18-2011, 02:23 AM
I feel like the backcourts would decide this series, as the defense played from both teams SF,PF,C would just be crazy good. And I have to give the advantage to Las Vegas with Kevin Martin, Lawson, and Reggie Williams who are flat out just better than a Ridnour, gordon, Willie Green Combo

Cubs420
03-18-2011, 02:30 AM
I voted Vegas, to me they seem like the deeper team...

NYKalltheway
03-18-2011, 09:58 AM
not sure what you mean by the second part

The winner of this tie meets San Fran ;) Both teams are very good so there's no actual preference for an opponent, that's what I meant. :cool:

All in all, I made my vote and my mind hasn't changed for this particular tie.

Both teams have a "weakness" in PG position so it's gonna go down to the SG's and the low post scoring-defending.
I prefer San Diego's bench as well. Adds more versatility to their game rather than Las Vegas who bring up more experience in the PG department and generally the bench does not seem to complement their starting lineup but rather keeps their style the same in all 48 minutes of play. San Diego has Aaron Brooks off the bench which could prove a catalyst while they can use some of their shooters at any time. Bench is not the catalyst for the series but imo it's a slight advantage for San Diego as they can change their style in many different ways unlike Vegas.

This clash is gonna be decided in details. There's no team that has a clear advantage in any department. Good luck to both of you and hope this time it's gonna be actually decided :p

KnicksorBust
03-18-2011, 10:03 AM
Why Exactly? Lawson over Ridnour I think puts this over the top in our favour. When you consider the speed, playmaking and scoring of Lawson, I can't see how Luke would be able to stick with him all series. Not to mention their back up Aaron Brooks is just plain awful this year. I believe 4/5 starting match ups to be very close except for PG and the bench which I think give us the edge overall.

Please show me all these examples of Ridnour getting torched by speedy PGs.

Ridnour held Devin Harris to 4-11 shooting.
Ridnour held Darren Collison to 1-5 shooting.
Ridnour held Devin Harris in an earlier game to 3-7.
Ridnour limitted John Wall to 8-17 shooting.
Ridnour held Jrue Holliday to 4-12 shooting.
Ridnour limitted Brandon Jennings to 7-17.

I could go back further but this is just his last 10-15 games vs. similar young speedy PGs. He had a rough game vs. GState but even that wasn't that bad. Ridnour is a good defender. I will address your other post on my next break. When will you address Eric Gordon vs. Kevin Martin? Do people not realize how bad of a defender he is? :confused:

BlondeBomber41
03-18-2011, 10:11 AM
When will you address Eric Gordon vs. Kevin Martin? Do people not realize how bad of a defender he is? :confused:

And when will you get it through your head that just because we made a comparison of position doesn't mean that Martin would be guarding Gordon? :confused:

NYYCowboys
03-18-2011, 10:39 AM
I voted for San Diego again.

KnicksorBust
03-18-2011, 11:25 AM
And when will you get it through your head that just because we made a comparison of position doesn't mean that Martin would be guarding Gordon? :confused:

I'm not a mind reader? "Both are good, efficient scorers who aren't gonna do much to stop each other on the other end. Martin has a advantage in height he can exploit, while Gordon has an advantage in speed."

Why would anyone assume you've made a defensive switch when you haven't even mentioned it? You basically say that Martin can't do much to stop Gordon because of his speed advantage (and due to the overall terribleness). This is all true:
http://dimemag.com/2008/11/the-worst-defenders-in-the-nba/
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/15180/haralabos-voulgaris-names-the-nbas-worst-defenders
http://aloneinthecorner.com/post/527082424/2010-all-non-defensive-team

The last article: "A lot of his defensive inefficiencies are the result of his penchant for gambling and leaving / losing his man. But even that aside, he is simply not physically equipped to be an adequate or average NBA defender." And it points how he causes his teammates to get into foul trouble protecting his poor defense.

He's so bad it actually effects the rest of the entire defense. As evidenced by the stats I gave in the writeup about how the Kings and Rockets are both well below average team defenses with him as a starter.

BlondeBomber41
03-18-2011, 11:34 AM
I'm not a mind reader? "Both are good, efficient scorers who aren't gonna do much to stop each other on the other end. Martin has a advantage in height he can exploit, while Gordon has an advantage in speed."

Why would anyone assume you've made a defensive switch when you haven't even mentioned it? You basically say that Martin can't do much to stop Gordon because of his speed advantage (and due to the overall terribleness). This is all true:
http://dimemag.com/2008/11/the-worst-defenders-in-the-nba/
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/15180/haralabos-voulgaris-names-the-nbas-worst-defenders
http://aloneinthecorner.com/post/527082424/2010-all-non-defensive-team

The last article: "A lot of his defensive inefficiencies are the result of his penchant for gambling and leaving / losing his man. But even that aside, he is simply not physically equipped to be an adequate or average NBA defender." And it points how he causes his teammates to get into foul trouble protecting his poor defense.

He's so bad it actually effects the rest of the entire defense. As evidenced by the stats I gave in the writeup about how the Kings and Rockets are both well below average team defenses with him as a starter.

You dont have to assume anything. I only said it like 3 times in the previous thread. You and PL just kept saying it though, ignoring the posts.

Im not worried about Kevin Martin. Tayshaun Prince isn't gonna torch anyone.

Have you paid attention to the personel put around Kevin Martin as a Rocket and King? He has never been on a team capable of being good defensively. I bet if you put Yao Ming and Shane Battier on his current team it would be a different story.

Baller1
03-18-2011, 01:17 PM
Give me SD. Stronger overall defensive team. Martin basically turns it into a 4v5 on the defensive end.

KnicksorBust
03-18-2011, 02:22 PM
Let's get some more votes in here!

Flash3
03-18-2011, 02:38 PM
voted for sd accidentally meant las vegas

NYKalltheway
03-18-2011, 04:33 PM
4 votes difference (or 6 if flash's vote is reversed)

BlondeBomber41
03-19-2011, 07:37 AM
Yahhhh, justice is served from the first voting. Tough battle though, SD put together a great team.

Western Conference Finals here we come. :clap: