PDA

View Full Version : TOP 5 - Most Overrated Seasons (2Kish ERA)



Chronz
03-15-2011, 12:42 AM
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/blog.php?b=3490


This List is completely subjective and based on whether I felt the player got too much credit/recognition despite middling statistics/impact. This isnt to say the players played poorly (though some could be argued), nor are the players ranked by how good they were, just which were over-hyped and by how much. Click on the LINK to my PSD Blog for the full breakdown

So without further ado .......... THE LIST








#5
Michael Jordan - 2K3
The GOAT IMO and plenty of others, he was also one of the greatest to ever play at such an advanced age, but he too was overrated. His 2 year stint with the Wizards was filled with a few nostalgic games, overall though he was simply too ineffective to justify his status as an All-Star. I overlooked the 2002 season because he really did start the season off with a spring in his step (25-6-6) also some may have simply wanted to see MJ make it one more time. In 2003 however the fans reverted to voting for the truly superior players and it was the coaches decision to include him. Putting all bias aside can someone seriously say a 40 year old MJ was a better player than Ray Allen during his prime? He was arguably on par with teammate Jerry Stackhouse. This won't be a popular choice but MJ was indeed overrated by many.



#4

Chris Kaman - 2K10
When people use the expression "its easy to put up #'s on a losing team" as the justification for not selecting a player to the All-Star team, its usually an oversimplification and rarely warranted. What they mean or should say is that its easier to put up superficial averages on a bad team. Such was the case with Kaman who averaged 19-9 for the 3rd worst offense in the league and did so with poor efficiency




#3
T-MAC - 2K8
One of my favorite players of all time, I defend him with 100% conviction with the certainty that hes among the most underrated players of our generation. That said, this was one of the few moments in his career where he was given too much credit, ironically it came the first year he didnt make the All-Star team since becoming one.

If the Chris Kaman selection signifies an ignorance to statistics, this selection displays the extremes to which we take the intangibles of winning.
Riding the wave of a 22GM winning streak Mac was suddenly the recipient of some MVP pub, he was never a strong or even a darkhorse candidate for the award but the mere fact that he was in the conversation was ridiculous. In all he ranked 8th on the ballot and the media was so blinded by this run that they saw fit to name him to an All-NBA team.




#2
Antoine Walker - CAREER JK, 98
Choosing between the most overrated Antoine Walker campaign is like trying to choose between the worst Steven Seagal flick, in fact I had to limit this list to 1 per player because of him or else it would have simply been known as the Antoine Walker sucks dong thread.

I wound up choosing his sophomore season because it was his first All-Star birth and it came before his peak. With averages like 22-10-3 its easy to see why he was able to fool enough heads into buying his All-Star play but facts are he epitomized the term chucker. Luckily coaches didnt fall for it often but unlike the other 2 selections the Celtics werent even winning.

The most deserving candidate, Chris Webber, accomplished the remarkable feat of having better stats, more W's, and popularity among fans yet failing to catch the coaches attention. Even Rodman and Kemp were more deserving F's but all 3 had a less than sterling reputation/characters among coaches.






#1 is viewable on the blog, along with extra tidbits feel free berate me but be sure to include more deserving individuals.

GREATNESS ONE
03-15-2011, 12:46 AM
good list I actually agree with all of them, good work.

six
03-15-2011, 12:51 AM
1.Kobe Bryant

2.Dwayne Wade

3.Lebron James.

4.Dwight Howard

5.Ray allen

All were overrated in the 2000's

Hustlenomics
03-15-2011, 12:52 AM
lol @ # 1 , what a hater

Bullsfan22
03-15-2011, 01:00 AM
It's a pretty good list

Jenceman
03-15-2011, 01:01 AM
Pretty good list, no real complaints.

pd7631
03-15-2011, 01:11 AM
Chronz=AI hater.....didn't even have to click the link to know who YOU were gonna put there. Yep, being named team captain after an offseason of turmoil, winning All Star game MVP, NBA MVP, leading the 76ers to the best record in the East and to the NBA Finals for the first time since 1983......is very overrated. Even AI's tangible achievements are bashed by some of you fools on this site.

It's really beyond annoying at this point to read the same old re-hashed subjective ******** that people say about AI. The guy can't even get credit for non-debatable, iron clad numbers and achievements? What a joke.

Avenged
03-15-2011, 01:18 AM
I'm actually surprised to not see Kobe make the list.

pd7631
03-15-2011, 01:19 AM
I'm also so sick of people so worried about efficiency. Andre Iguodala may be a tremendous "advanced stat" player, but when it comes down to it, I'd take the "inefficient chucker" all day over a guy who is a ****ing hack when it counts, and shows no emotion or desire to win. Stop judging players based on imaginary stats, and watch the ****ing games and then tell me AI wasn't a phenomenal player.....especially in 2001.

ManRam
03-15-2011, 01:34 AM
Antoine Walker defines any list like this. He was such an overrated "star" every year he was every considered one. He basically was the reason I never became a C's fan when I was living in Boston, even though I really liked Pierce.

And you guys need to relax about AI. He makes valid points. That team does frequently get tagged as being a team of talentless no names + Allen Iverson, when that's just not true. He gets more credit than he deserves.

It was a great defensive team. It had the defensive player of the year. It had the 6th man of the year. In reality, there wasn't a single "bum" on that team, they were all really good players. There wasn't another another super star (Dikembe was great), but it was a phenomenal team. I do think Iverson did get a bit more credit than deserved.

I do firmly believe, and did believe, that Duncan, KG, Kobe, Shaq, Webber were all better players that year, and all more valuable. He is right. It's not hate, it's being realistic.

It was far from his best season. 31 points on 26 shots today would be scrutinized beyond belief, and rightfully so. Especially if you only dished out 4.6 assists.

bringinwood
03-15-2011, 01:34 AM
Im really really suprised to not see Steve Nash up there... To me, although he may have deserved it in several ways, you could find just as many reasons as to why he wasn't deserving of MVP honors...

He may be one of the worst defending guards in NBA history... He averaged between 3.5 and 4 turnovers a game ( too much )...

With that said, he didn't even shoot 90 % from the free throw line to complete the lofty shooting goal of 40/50/90 during one of the campaigns...

Kobe could have been up there for his 07/08 campaign... His stats were overly unimpressive compared to most MVP campaigns... He didn't lead the league in one significant category... It was also his third consecutive regression in PPG...

Chacarron
03-15-2011, 01:51 AM
Great list Chronz.

bulls_world23
03-15-2011, 01:54 AM
Good list

What?
03-15-2011, 02:02 AM
Kobe Bryants MVP year over Chris Paul and Lebron James has a case for being up there as well but other then that solid list

Sadds The Gr8
03-15-2011, 02:08 AM
nice list.

chitownbears89
03-15-2011, 02:21 AM
I'm surprised derrick rose isn't up there. lol

Baller1
03-15-2011, 02:22 AM
And people still like to claim Chronz as "an unintelligent poster who just likes stats too much".

Awesome work man. Kaman and Walker definitely epitomize this list.

Jewelz0376
03-15-2011, 02:24 AM
When people say AI carried that sixers to the finals...they mean on offensive... AI was the only player on that team even close to being able to create any offensive for himself or his teammates....

Mckie was a good scorer off the bench, but other than that they had Snow, Lynch, Hill, Geiger, Bell getting the major mins...Who the hell is going to score out of that group?? lol

Obviously they were amazing defensively...Being a great defensive team only can maybe get you in as an 8th seed at best...but much like Rose with the Bulls AI had to do 90% of the work for that team on offensive...(AI's situation was even worse than that though as far as offensive scores around him go)

No player has carried their team offensively to the finals like AI did except for Lebron...

Sure AI wasn't a great on ball defender then, but he was a good off ball defender...AI was usually forced to stick the pg and you can't be as good defensively as they were if your weak defensively at the pg spot, because you will give up dribble penetration constantly, which breaks down the D over and over...

I think AI was well deserving on the Mvp award

goblazers7
03-15-2011, 02:28 AM
Maybe Al Harrington for 2011? He has been plain shotty. Ppl thought he'd do better than this, he cant score on the nuggets even when they gave up Melo7

Arch Stanton
03-15-2011, 02:31 AM
It's funny seeing MJ on the list but since it's 2K it makes sense. Also one thing to consider with AI is how much of an impact did he have with Denver or Detroit? Not the same as Phili.

Hawkeye15
03-15-2011, 07:58 AM
pretty much agree with everyone on there, and the reasons they are there. I think the list makes sure and addresses the public perception of those seasons as well, while illustrating how overrated those players were in those respective years.

Iverson fans have got to chill. I am sorry, its unfortunately been proven that AI got his numbers off sheer volume, and he had an incredible defense behind him in a weak east.

Relax.

Byronicle
03-15-2011, 08:27 AM
I agree, but I still think MJ deserved to make the All Star game. I mean for what he has accomplished and done for the league, and the fact that this game is purely for entertainment, I was happy to see him playing with the best players of that time. He is most of the player's role models back then and still now, it was interesting to watch the future hall of famers playing against his Airness. I wished Shaq played in the last All Star game as well

JNA17
03-15-2011, 09:55 AM
what? A great list with valid points from...Chronz!? What a concept!

jtsunami
03-15-2011, 09:57 AM
more better

And that's when I knew this list should be taken seriously.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-15-2011, 11:05 AM
I'm actually surprised to not see Kobe make the list.

this

and a pretty good list by Chronz

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-15-2011, 11:06 AM
I'm also so sick of people so worried about efficiency. Andre Iguodala may be a tremendous "advanced stat" player, but when it comes down to it, I'd take the "inefficient chucker" all day over a guy who is a ****ing hack when it counts, and shows no emotion or desire to win. Stop judging players based on imaginary stats, and watch the ****ing games and then tell me AI wasn't a phenomenal player.....especially in 2001.

thats laughable:laugh2:

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-15-2011, 11:09 AM
Maybe Monta Ellis for 2011? He has been plain shotty. Ppl thought he'd do better than this, he cant score on the nuggets even when they gave up Melo7

fixed

JordansBulls
03-15-2011, 11:12 AM
Steve Nash 2005. I mean a guy averaged 15 and 11 and was MVP.
:speechless:

Hustla23
03-15-2011, 11:16 AM
I disagree vehemently with the Antoine Walker selection.

I've never seen a more team first, efficient player.

drama1386
03-15-2011, 11:32 AM
good list. looking back, Iverson was pretty overrated, even though he's one of my favorite players of all time. and having walker and kaman on the list is something I couldn't agree with you more...

Chronz
03-15-2011, 12:12 PM
1.Kobe Bryant

2.Dwayne Wade

3.Lebron James.

4.Dwight Howard

5.Ray allen

All were overrated in the 2000's

Any specific year or reasons would be nice, I found Ray Allen to be one of the most underrated players of our generation.


I'm also so sick of people so worried about efficiency. Andre Iguodala may be a tremendous "advanced stat" player, but when it comes down to it, I'd take the "inefficient chucker" all day over a guy who is a ****ing hack when it counts, and shows no emotion or desire to win.
Id take AI over Iggy too, so would the stats so whats your point? This really has nothing to do with the argument, however good you think AI is, there is no doubt in my mind it was among the most overrated individual seasons of my life time.

The point I'm making is that I'd take an efficient chucker or an efficient dominator over the alternative you provided.


Stop judging players based on imaginary stats, and watch the ****ing games and then tell me AI wasn't a phenomenal player.....especially in 2001.
In other words you want us to ignore all statistical evidence and watch the game through YOUR EYES.

I mean really whats the point of this argument? All I have to do is say, I watched the games and your point is moot. If the best youve got to refute whats being said is watch the games and stats are imaginary then there is not a hint of objectivity to your post.




I'm surprised derrick rose isn't up there. lol
Its a weak MVP race so winning that alone wont get him on here but if he manages to rob Kobe/Wade of an All-NBA 1st Team birth THEN we have a problem.



Maybe Al Harrington for 2011? He has been plain shotty. Ppl thought he'd do better than this, he cant score on the nuggets even when they gave up Melo7
Harrington was a good choice, but he was more of a career overrated guy than a single season guy. He was never given any real credit among the coaches/media, he was always tagged as a guy with good potential even though he flattened out early in his career. Still he does deserve an honorable mention.



And that's when I knew this list should be taken seriously.
LOL I thought I edited all the grammatical errors, I even punctuated, which is something I never do.

Chronz
03-15-2011, 12:27 PM
When people say AI carried that sixers to the finals...they mean on offensive... AI was the only player on that team even close to being able to create any offensive for himself or his teammates....
Ive heard the argument that he carried bums, even if they only meant offensively (which plenty didn't) its foolish to ignore that aspect of the teams ability, which they did by acting like it was some miraculous achievement that he made the Finals.

Besides he carried them offensively because it was the only way AI's impact could be maximized with him as the star. Show me a single dynamic offensive player that thrived alongside him, from what I can recall almost all of them performed better without him.


Mckie was a good scorer off the bench, but other than that they had Snow, Lynch, Hill, Geiger, Bell getting the major mins...Who the hell is going to score out of that group?? lol

Obviously they were amazing defensively...Being a great defensive team only can maybe get you in as an 8th seed at best...but much like Rose with the Bulls AI had to do 90% of the work for that team on offensive...(AI's situation was even worse than that though as far as offensive scores around him go)
Offense and defense are equally important (defense somewhat more important), without one or the other the team falls apart. The point remains that their defense was the driving force behind their victories because it was the only aspect of their team that was ELITE. Nobody is arguing that AI wasnt the MVP of HIS team and most responsible for his teams success, whats being argued is that he did in fact have the most support of any star G in his conference due to their defensive impact.


No player has carried their team offensively to the finals like AI did except for Lebron...
Debatable but yes he did a better job than AI and got less credit.


Sure AI wasn't a great on ball defender then, but he was a good off ball defender...AI was usually forced to stick the pg and you can't be as good defensively as they were if your weak defensively at the pg spot, because you will give up dribble penetration constantly, which breaks down the D over and over...
I disagree, plenty of elite defenses have had holes on the perimeter, particularly at the point. Having a great defensive PG helps but its not a prerequisite the way it is among the other positions. AI was a liability, he was able to play the passing lanes because of Snow guarding his position and because he had an elite defensive structure behind him, without Snow and (insert shotblocker) he doesnt rack up the steals and his lack of awareness damages the team even more. You add any other star guard (with less steals) to this team and they become better defensively.


I think AI was well deserving on the Mvp award
Care to explain why because from the looks of it, it was just the hot story.

Hustlenomics
03-15-2011, 01:22 PM
^ don't even waste your time with this

Jewelz0376
03-15-2011, 06:27 PM
Ive heard the argument that he carried bums, even if they only meant offensively (which plenty didn't) its foolish to ignore that aspect of the teams ability, which they did by acting like it was some miraculous achievement that he made the Finals.

Besides he carried them offensively because it was the only way AI's impact could be maximized with him as the star. Show me a single dynamic offensive player that thrived alongside him, from what I can recall almost all of them performed better without him.

How many did he really even play with though?? Stackhouse??..nah...Big Dog and Cwebb were well broken down before he got to 76ers...He only played with one...and that was Melo...If you look at his stats Melo had his 2 best statistical seasons w/AI besides probably the season before and he has yet to have a season more efficient since AI left..

The two season w/AI he had the 2nd & 3rd highest ts% of his career....2nd highest ortg (same both seasons)...2nd and 4th highest win shares of his career..

Since he was the best scorer AI played w/ by far his entire career he had his most efficient seasons as well..his 2 highest ts%'s were with Melo...his highest ortg was with Melo, and his 2nd best season in terms of win shares was with Melo (2nd only to mvp season)



Offense and defense are equally important (defense somewhat more important), without one or the other the team falls apart. The point remains that their defense was the driving force behind their victories because it was the only aspect of their team that was ELITE. Nobody is arguing that AI wasnt the MVP of HIS team and most responsible for his teams success, whats being argued is that he did in fact have the most support of any star G in his conference due to their defensive impact.

Looking at the top seeds that season...the bucks Ray Allen had Cassel and Big Dog (when he was legit)...Kobe & Shaq obviously had each other...The case could maybe be made that Duncan was more deserving because he only had Derrick Anderson and an older David Robinson..So to me it was either between Shaq, Duncan, and AI...Imo none were head and shoulders above the other



Debatable but yes he did a better job than AI and got less credit.


I disagree, plenty of elite defenses have had holes on the perimeter, particularly at the point. Having a great defensive PG helps but its not a prerequisite the way it is among the other positions. AI was a liability, he was able to play the passing lanes because of Snow guarding his position and because he had an elite defensive structure behind him, without Snow and (insert shotblocker) he doesnt rack up the steals and his lack of awareness damages the team even more. You add any other star guard (with less steals) to this team and they become better defensively.

Sure AI was able to play the passing lanes more because of Mutombo, but its not like AI wasn't getting plenty of steals w/o an elite shotblocker...Teams most def were aware of AI's ability to play passing lanes arguably better than anyone else in the league before and after that team... He probably gambled a little too much a times, but when your as good at it as he was I'm sure he was encouraged to be aggressive on D...
Sure you maybe be able to find a guard to replace him that was a better defender, but at the same time hardly any of those players would've been able to carry the load that was needed on offense for that team to be as successful as it was...


Care to explain why because from the looks of it, it was just the hot story.

AI got the mvp that year for similar reasons Rose is most likely winning mvp this season...AI's offensive presence took that team from a borderline playoff team to a title contender, because w/o AI they would've most likely been one of the worst offensive teams in the league instead of just middle of the pack..

hotpotato1092
03-15-2011, 08:45 PM
Gotta admit the blog thing was a brilliant way to get some hits.

ElMarroAfamado
03-15-2011, 09:31 PM
overrated. Lebrick.

knightstemplar
03-15-2011, 09:41 PM
iverson took his team to the nba finals, and dropped 48 in game 1 in 2001...how was that overrated?

how about steve nash 04/05 and 05/06, that mvp really took his team far in the playoffs.../.
dirk in 07 when his team won 67 games, knocked out of 1st round by 8th seed!

knightstemplar
03-15-2011, 09:44 PM
Steve Nash 2005. I mean a guy averaged 15 and 11 and was MVP.
:speechless:

what only 15 points, omg
what about 06? kobe definatly got robbed

knightstemplar
03-15-2011, 09:45 PM
1.Kobe Bryant

2.Dwayne Wade

3.Lebron James.
4.Dwight Howard

5.Ray allen

All were overrated in the 2000's

:facepalm:

C-Dub
03-15-2011, 09:59 PM
crap.. n AI discussion... i better stay outta it!

Chronz
03-16-2011, 01:26 AM
^ don't even waste your time with this
Quitter



How many did he really even play with though?? Stackhouse??..nah...Big Dog and Cwebb were well broken down before he got to 76ers...He only played with one...and that was Melo...If you look at his stats Melo had his 2 best statistical seasons w/AI besides probably the season before and he has yet to have a season more efficient since AI left..
Its not about how good they were, its about whether or not they were able to play to their potential alongside AI and how much better they did when they left his side.

As for AI's efficiency, a few factors your neglecting to mention, the most prominent being the rule changes. The handchecking rules had a dramatic effect on his overall efficiency, his usage in 06 was actually higher than his MVP year but his PPP was dramatically better, in other words AI at 30 was at his peak, the Sixers missed the playoffs but again this just shows you how important a players support is.


The two season w/AI he had the 2nd & 3rd highest ts% of his career....2nd highest ortg (same both seasons)...2nd and 4th highest win shares of his career..
He had his greatest OFF.RTG without AI, before and after, in 07 he spent 625 Minutes playing alongside Andre Miller and 1175 minutes alongside Iverson. That year he shot 52% with Dre and only 46% with AI despite taking less shots. In 08 there was no discernible difference in Melo's stats with or without AI on the court. Its fair to say Melo was always Melo regardless of who was his teammate. Besides AI was a different player by then, he was no longer the teams best player and only serves to prove the point I was making. No player could thrive with AI hogging the ball.



Looking at the top seeds that season...the bucks Ray Allen had Cassel and Big Dog (when he was legit)...Kobe & Shaq obviously had each other...The case could maybe be made that Duncan was more deserving because he only had Derrick Anderson and an older David Robinson..So to me it was either between Shaq, Duncan, and AI...Imo none were head and shoulders above the other

Are you arguing the MVP or him not having the most support in his conference? Because this doesnt assess the complaint, all you did was name names. The Bucks were elite offensively but they lacked the defenders to compete with the 76ers and they still almost beat them, some would say they got screwed but thats for another day.

But if your talking about their MVP chances, which is what Im assuming, why even mention the Bucks? Being the 2nd seed in the East wasnt as great of an accomplishment as holding HCA in the West. Webber, Shaq, Duncan were the contenders.



Sure AI was able to play the passing lanes more because of Mutombo, but its not like AI wasn't getting plenty of steals w/o an elite shotblocker...Teams most def were aware of AI's ability to play passing lanes arguably better than anyone else in the league before and after that team... He probably gambled a little too much a times, but when your as good at it as he was I'm sure he was encouraged to be aggressive on D...
Sure you maybe be able to find a guard to replace him that was a better defender, but at the same time hardly any of those players would've been able to carry the load that was needed on offense for that team to be as successful as it was...

With the improved defense they would not need to carry the same kind of load, nor does that statement even hold true, the kind of efficiency AI's mustered isnt that unattainable.



AI got the mvp that year for similar reasons Rose is most likely winning mvp this season...AI's offensive presence took that team from a borderline playoff team to a title contender, because w/o AI they would've most likely been one of the worst offensive teams in the league instead of just middle of the pack..
Thats a pretty ****** reason considering the plethora vastly superior players with superior impact/value, atleast Rose isnt competing against the likes of Prime Shaq, Duncan, KG, CWebb.

Duncan = Donkey
03-16-2011, 01:55 AM
To the idiots saying Nash.

He inherited a team that went 29-53 and had the 21st rank offense and took them to a league best record of 62-20 and ranked number 1 in offense. Also when Nash went to bench the team played like crap cause they could not do anything without him.
No way were his MVP years overrated. Did he deserve both MVP's probaly not, but that does make his play over rated at all.

SugeKnight
03-16-2011, 02:11 AM
I'm also so sick of people so worried about efficiency. Andre Iguodala may be a tremendous "advanced stat" player, but when it comes down to it, I'd take the "inefficient chucker" all day over a guy who is a ****ing hack when it counts, and shows no emotion or desire to win. Stop judging players based on imaginary stats, and watch the ****ing games and then tell me AI wasn't a phenomenal player.....especially in 2001.

.

KingPosey
03-16-2011, 02:13 AM
I'm also so sick of people so worried about efficiency. Andre Iguodala may be a tremendous "advanced stat" player, but when it comes down to it, I'd take the "inefficient chucker" all day over a guy who is a ****ing hack when it counts, and shows no emotion or desire to win. Stop judging players based on imaginary stats, and watch the ****ing games and then tell me AI wasn't a phenomenal player.....especially in 2001.

lol nice argument.

brodawgs
03-16-2011, 02:35 AM
Overall, It's a pretty good list, with an exception, AI shouldn't be on it. If you had watched the games from that season, you'd realize that stats aren't everything, there are just things that you cannot quantify, and AI's performance that year is one of them. It's irresponsible to say that he wasn't the MVP, he had the stats, performance, and overall impact that very few others had that year (Shaq), and say what you want about the supporting cast, the fact of the matter is it wasn't as good as the players that you mentioned had: Lakers, Spurs, Wolves and Kings.

I would take AI off the list, and move everything else up one and put Kobe's MVP season in 5th.

Chronz
03-16-2011, 02:49 AM
Overall, It's a pretty good list, with an exception, AI shouldn't be on it. If you had watched the games from that season, you'd realize that stats aren't everything, there are just things that you cannot quantify, and AI's performance that year is one of them. It's irresponsible to say that he wasn't the MVP, he had the stats, performance, and overall impact that very few others had that year (Shaq), and say what you want about the supporting cast, the fact of the matter is it wasn't as good as the players that you mentioned had: Lakers, Spurs, Wolves and Kings.

I would take AI off the list, and move everything else up one and put Kobe's MVP season in 5th.
One problem chief, I watched plenty of games that year, and his entire playoff run is downloadable in this day and age. These intangibles you speak of, guess what, Shaq and Duncan had them in spades, KG and Webber had them, the main difference was what we CAN measure was far and away in their favor.

AI lacked the stats and overall impact, what he did have was the best story and the element of surprise. Writers care about story telling, and the revival of Philly was the biggest surprise of the year.