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ILMindState
03-14-2011, 03:15 PM
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2011-03-14/phil-jackson-says-kobe-bryant-not-in-michael-jordans-company

With Kobe Bryant having won five NBA titles, one away from Michael Jordan’s six, the comparisons between the two are inevitable. But Phil Jackson, who coached Bryant’s Lakers and Jordan’s Bulls to all 11 of their combined titles, thinks Jordan is in his own stratosphere and that the conversations comparing the two stars should stop.

"Kobe has patterned himself after Michael, and there are a lot of identical things there,” Jackson told the Los Angeles Times, “but it's one thing to hope to be like him, it's another thing to be like him."

Kobe Bryant earns high praise from Phil Jackson, but the Lakers coach says his current star should not be compared to Michael Jordan. (AP photo)
"I'm with (ESPN's) Bill Simmons on this," he added. "We have to take Michael Jordan out of the equation. Stop comparing anyone to Michael Jordan. It's just not fair. He was remarkable. ...

"(Kobe) doesn't shoot the same percentage (.455) as Michael (.497). He has the same characteristics as Michael, but he's not the same player. It takes nothing away from him — he's a great player in his own right."

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 03:16 PM
Um, we have already established this.

justinnum1
03-14-2011, 03:16 PM
Typical PJ motivation technique...though he is right.

bovice163
03-14-2011, 03:17 PM
I think most of us knew this, I can't help but think that this is Phil lighting a fire under Kobe's *** though...

Hustlenomics
03-14-2011, 03:17 PM
thank you Zen Master, about time someone said this :worthy:

marlinsfan24
03-14-2011, 03:20 PM
"I'm with (ESPN's) Bill Simmons on this," he added. "We have to take Michael Jordan out of the equation. Stop comparing anyone to Michael Jordan. It's just not fair. He was remarkable.

This is exactly what I have been saying for the longest time.

shizzle09
03-14-2011, 03:20 PM
WOW, and people think the heat players need the mic's taken away from them. Someone get this guy a nice tall glass of shut the **** up juice. Does this guy have like daily meetings with reporters to drop some statement that the media will run with???

Sadds The Gr8
03-14-2011, 03:21 PM
Um, we have already established this.

ye but this is coming from Phil so people will be all over this

bovice163
03-14-2011, 03:21 PM
This is exactly what I have been saying for the longest time.

Not to start anything, but weren't you the one that said to take MJ off the pedestal and compare him to Bron? :confused:

ILMindState
03-14-2011, 03:21 PM
Um, we have already established this.

Yeah I remember reading a thread about this a week or so ago. Just posted this as a follow up because I agree with Phil in that we shouldn't really compare the two.

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 03:24 PM
Phil has commented on the Kobe/Jordan stuff before as well. He said Kobe could never do the things Jordan did, because Kobe's hands are tiny.

He has said things over the years pointing to this, but its nice for him to say it directly so his real opinion can't be mistaken anymore.

marlinsfan24
03-14-2011, 03:24 PM
Not to start anything, but weren't you the one that said to take MJ off the pedestal and compare him to Bron? :confused:

I was saying that Lebron/Wade is the closest to MJ-Pippen and they could be just as good as them, long shot, but no need to write them off. As for individually MJ is far superior to anyone thats ever played. MJ>>Lebron but Wade>Pippen.

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 03:25 PM
Not to start anything, but weren't you the one that said to take MJ off the pedestal and compare him to Bron? :confused:

you can, statistically, compare the two better than MJ/Kobe. But the sheer fact is that LeBron and MJ should NEVER be in a comparison together until LeBron starts winning rings. On top of that, LeBron is already 0-1 in the finals. Its going to be very, very, very difficult for LeBron to catch MJ. If he doesn't start winning this year most likely, its probably already too late to even have a prayer at GOAT

marlinsfan24
03-14-2011, 03:25 PM
Phil has commented on the Kobe/Jordan stuff before as well. He said Kobe could never do the things Jordan did, because Kobe's hands are tiny.

He has said things over the years pointing to this, but its nice for him to say it directly so his real opinion can't be mistaken anymore.

Imagine combining Kobe and MJ's skills and then putting it into Lebron's body. OMG, the league would never have no shot.

bovice163
03-14-2011, 03:26 PM
I was saying that Lebron/Wade is the closest to MJ-Pippen and they could be just as good as them, long shot, but no need to write them off. As for individually MJ is far superior to anyone thats ever played. MJ>>Lebron but Wade>Pippen.

Alright, that makes sense now. Yeah you're definitely right, they will go down as the 2 greatest tandems of All-time.

marlinsfan24
03-14-2011, 03:27 PM
you can, statistically, compare the two better than MJ/Kobe. But the sheer fact is that LeBron and MJ should NEVER be in a comparison together until LeBron starts winning rings. On top of that, LeBron is already 0-1 in the finals. Its going to be very, very, very difficult for LeBron to catch MJ. If he doesn't start winning this year most likely, its probably already too late to even have a prayer at GOAT

This. And but I would never ever put Lebron in the same discussion as MJ for the same reasons you stated.

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 03:28 PM
Imagine combining Kobe and MJ's skills and then putting it into Lebron's body. OMG, the league would never have no shot.

well, and I seriously don't mean this as a knock on Kobe, but I have always viewed him as a poor man's MJ. I think MJ was a bit better at pretty much every single skill (obviously the Kobe lovers will point to FT/3FG%, but you catch what I am saying here). Hence why he is better overall. But yes, give LeBron the skill level of even Kobe, and its lights out NBA.

tredigs
03-14-2011, 03:30 PM
Going off the thread from last week, I for one am glad THE person to make the definitive statement on this issue (as far as "intangibles", etc. go - because there is no argument statistically or accolade wise) finally set the truth in stone.

Moving on.

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 03:31 PM
=tredigs;17110412]Going off the thread from last week, I for one am glad THE person to make the definitive statement on this issue (as far as "intangibles", etc. go - because there is no argument statistically or accolade wise) finally set the truth in stone.

Moving on.[/
you wish. You know some will say this is only a motivatinal tool by Jackson.

J-Relo
03-14-2011, 03:35 PM
Imagine combining Kobe and MJ's skills and then putting it into Lebron's body. OMG, the league would never have no shot.

What does Kobe have what MJ didn't?

Faycem
03-14-2011, 03:38 PM
This article is taken from THIS article:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-simers-phil-jackson-20110313,0,4441456.column

And there he said as well about last championship "Kobe was really hurt; people don't give him enough credit. He's a remarkable person, remarkable."

I quote this because most of you that has posted on this thread underappreciate Kobe's performance last year because of FG% in game 7...

Bullsfan22
03-14-2011, 03:40 PM
like most people said it's an unfair comparison.

marlinsfan24
03-14-2011, 03:44 PM
What does Kobe have what MJ didn't?

I'm not sure off the top of my head, but there has to be something, right?

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 03:46 PM
I'm not sure off the top of my head, but there has to be something, right?

all of his hair at age 32

championships
03-14-2011, 03:51 PM
This was in the Laker forum a few days ago. The article posted on here is only half of the story.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-simers-phil-jackson-20110313,0,4441456.column?page=1
he also says "It's about admiring his courage. There's only one individual I know that's like that, and that's Michael Jordan".


"We have to take Michael Jordan out of the equation. Stop comparing anyone to Michael Jordan. It's just not fair. He was remarkable. Kobe's in his own sphere.

Kingz4L
03-14-2011, 03:52 PM
This should close the thread right here...check it out:



Credit to Elgee for this.
Jordan/Kobe Comparison
Highest PPG Average: 30.12
Most seasons leading league in Points: 11
Most scoring titles: 10
Highest PER Efficiency: 27.91
Also, MJ is no doubt the greatest playoff performer and IMO he was the greatest Road Player Ever. Most of his greatest feats happened on the road.
The Playoffs is where you make your name and where greatness is defined.

Playoffs

Most Points Per Game (min. 25 games)
33.4 by Michael Jordan (179 games)

Most Points in a Game
63 by Michael Jordan

Most 50 Point Games
8 by Michael Jordan

Most 40 Point Games
38 by Michael Jordan

Most 30 Point Games
109 by Michael Jordan

Most 20 Point Games
174 by Michael Jordan (he played 179 playoff games and scored under 20 only 5 times)
-Highest PER Efficiency Playoffs: 28.59


Most Career 40+ Point Games in Playoffs History

1. MJ = 38
2. West = 20
3. Baylor = 14
4. Wilt = 13
5. Shaq = 12
6. Hakeem = 11
Kobe = 11
Iverson = 10
9. Lebron = 9


Most Career 30+ Point Games in Playoffs History
MJ - 109
Kobe - 78
Kareem - 75
West -74
Baylor - 60



MJ:
NBA Regular-season records Michael Jordan holds:
-Most seasons leading league in scoring: 10
-Highest scoring average, career: 30.12ppg
-Most consecutive points, one game: 23
-Most seasons leading league in field goals made: 10
-Most consecutive gms in double figures in scoring:
866
-Most consecutive seasons leading PER: 7
-Highest career PER: 27.91
-Oldest player to score 40+ points: age 40 (43 pts)
-Oldest player to score 50+ points: age 38 (51 pts)
NBA Regular-season records Michael Jordan shares:
-Most consecutive seasons leading league in scoring:
7 (tied with Wilt Chamberlain)
-Most consecutive seasons, 2,000 plus points: 11 (Tied
with Malone)

NBA Playoff records Michael Jordan holds:
-Highest scoring average, career: 33.4ppg
-Record Total points: 5987
-Record Most FTS made: 1463
-Most points playoffs, one-game: 63
-Most points playoffs, three-game series: 135 (vs.
Miami, 1992)
-Most Points playoffs, five-game series: 226 (vs.
Cleveland, 1988)
-Most field goals made playoffs, three-game series:
53 (vs. Miami, 1992)
-Most field goals made playoffs, five-game series: 86
(vs. Philadelphia, 1990)
-Most field goals made playoffs, six-game series: 101
(vs. Phoenix, 1993)
-Most consecutive 50pt games: 2
-Most consecutive 45pt games: 3
-Most consecutive games, 20 plus points: 60
-Most free throws made, one quarter: 13
-Most free throws attempted, one quarter: 14
-Most 50 point games: 8
-Most 40 point games: 39
-Most consecutive points: 23
NBA Playoff records Michael Jordan shares:
-Most field goals, in a game: 24 (vs. Cleveland, May
1, 1988; tied with two others)
-Most three-point field goals made, one half: 6
(first half vs. Portland, June 3, 1992; tied with four
others)
NBA Finals records Michael Jordan holds:
- Highest Scoring average: 33.6
-Most points, six-game series: 246 (vs. Phoenix,
1993)
-Most field goals made, five-game series: 63 (vs.
L.A. Lakers, 1991)
-Most field goals made, six-game series: 101 (vs.
Phoenix, 1993)
-Most steals, five-game series: 14 (vs. L.A. Lakers,
1991)
-Highest scoring average, one series: 41.0 (vs.
Phoenix, 1993)
-Most consecutive games, 40-plus points: 4 (June 11,
1993 to June 18, 1993)
-Most consecutive 30 point games: 9
-Most consecutive games, 20-plus points: 29 (June 22,
1991 to June 1997)
-Most points, one-half: 35 (vs. Portland, June 3,
1992)
-Most consecutive field goals: 13 (Vs. LA)
-Most consecutive points: 23 (Vs. Seattle)
-Most Finals MVPs: 6

Here is Kobe's
KOBE:
NBA Regular-season records Kobe holds:
-All-rookie game (now defunct): 31 points
NBA Regular-season records Kobe Shares:
-Most 3 pointers in one game: 12 (shared with 1
player)
-Most 3 pointers in one half: 8 (5 players)
-Most consecutive 3 pointers: 9 (2 players)
-Most free throws made in one quarter: 14 (5 players)
-Most free throws attempted one quarter: 16 (6
players)
NBA Playoff Records Kobe holds:
-NONE
NBA Playoff Records Kobe Shares:
-NONE
NBA Finals records Kobe holds:
-NONE
NBA Finals records Kobe Shares:
-NONE


Conclusion: MJ still owns the most
scoring records as well as ALMOST ALL THE PLAYOFF
Records. Take a look at the all time scoring feats at
the bottom. MJ has 21 of them and the most important
ones, Wilt has 16, Kobe has 1. Take away Wilt and MJ
climbs to 26 and Kobe has 8. Below that are MJ's
records and KB's records. Not even close.
Here's a list of ALL-TIME SCORING RECORDS.
- Highest career scoring average: MJ 30.12
- Highest career playoff scoring average: MJ 33.4
- Highest career Finals scoring average: MJ 33.6
- Highest single season scoring average: Wilt 50.4
- Highest single series playoff average: West 46.3
- Highest single Finals series average: MJ 41.0
- Most seasons leading league in scoring: MJ 10
- Most consecutive seasons leading in scoring: MJ,
Wilt tied at 7
- Most 50 point games: Wilt 118
- Most 50 point games playoffs: MJ 8
- Most 40 point games: Wilt 271
- Most 40 point games playoffs: MJ 42
- Most consecutive 60 point games: Wilt 4
- Most consecutive 50 point games: Wilt 7
- Most consecutive 50 point games in playoffs: MJ 2
- Most consecutive 45 point games: Wilt 7
- Most consecutive 45 point games playoffs: MJ 3
- Most consecutive 40 point games: Wilt 14
- Most consecutive 40 point games rookie: AI 5
- Most consecutive 40 point games playoffs: West 6
- Most consecutive 40 point games finals: MJ 4
- Most consecutive 35 point games: Wilt 33
- Most consecutive 30 point games: Wilt 65
- Most consecutive 30 point games playoffs: Elgin 11
- Most consecutive 30 point games finals: MJ 9
- Most consecutive 20 point games: Wilt 126
- Most consecutive 20 point games playoffs: MJ 60
- Most consecutive 20 point games finals: MJ 35
- Most consecutive double figures scoring: MJ 866
- Most consecutive points in one game: MJ 23
- Most consecutive points in one game playoffs: MJ 23
- Highest scoring game: Wilt 100
- Highest scoring game playoffs: MJ 63
- Highest scoring game finals: Elgin 61
- Highest scoring game rookie: Wilt 58
- Highest scoring all-star game: Wilt 42
- Highest scoring all-rookie game: Kobe 31
- Most points in 3 quarters: Wilt 69
- Most points in one half: Wilt 59
- Most points one half playoffs: Sleepy Floyd 39
- Most points in one half finals: MJ 35
- Most points one half all-star game: Rice 24
- Most points in one quarter: Gervin 33
- Most points in one quarter playoffs: Sleepy Floyd 29
- Most points in one quarter finals: Isiah 25
- Most points in one quarter all-star game: Rice 20
- Most points in OT: Arenas 16
- Most points in OT playoffs: Drexler 13
- Most points in OT in finals: Havlicek, Laimbeer,
Ainge tied at 9
- Oldest to score 50: MJ 51 at age 38
- Oldest to score 40: MJ 43 at age 40


The only thing Kobe really has on Jordan is the 3 pt range (which
Jordan was not bad at when he decided to take them, but onyl shot 1.66
a game on his career, Kobe is at 3.5), and arguably a better handle
(and Jordan had a really good handle, just wasn't and1 stuff). Jordan
is more creative in the lane, a better finisher, better mid-range and
in the post, the better passer, better offensive rebounder, shot
higher percentages, and turned it over less. Yes, Kobe is insane and
one of the best guys in the league right now...but better than
Mike? I think that's going too far.
And why is Jordan not getting credit for better shot selection?
Decision making isn't a skill?
Jordan 87-93 was pretty special, over 7 seasons he averaged 33.2 ppg
on 52% from the field. Again, that's a 7 season average. Looking at
points per 100 possessions, Jordan torches Kobe. Kobe has averaged 111
on his career (excluding this season), topping out at 114. Jordan
averaged 118 on his career (11 above the league average in those
seasons), hitting 125, and with 5 seasons at 123+. In 96 he was 24
pp100p better than the league average. Kobe at his best was 12 above
the league average (and 7 above league average on his career).
I don't know what world we are living in when better efficiency on a
larger volume, with better decision making, passing, less turnovers,
better offensive rebounding, post game, mid-range game, creating shots
and finishing in the lane, superior strength and athleticism, is all
outweighed by having more range. Personally, I think it is likely
Jordan could have developed similar range, but it would take away from
a deadly efficient, well balanced game. The differences in the skill
level aren't big, but all things considered, one player is definitely
better than the other.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas...vidual_points/
Top Playoff Single-Game Scoring Performances
Player Team Opponent Total Date
Michael Jordan Chicago at Boston 63 April 20, 1986
Elgin Baylor L.A. Lakers at Boston 61 April 14, 1962
Wilt Chamberlain Philadelphia Syracuse 56 March 22, 1962
Michael Jordan Chicago at Miami 56 April 29, 1992
Charles Barkley Phoenix at Golden State 56 May 4, 1994
Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 55 May 1, 1988
Michael Jordan Chicago Phoenix 55 June 16, 1993
Michael Jordan Chicago Washington 55 April 27, 1997
John Havlicek Boston Atlanta 54 April 1, 1973
Michael Jordan Chicago New York 54 May 31, 1993
Allen Iverson Philadelphia Toronto 54 May 9, 2001
Wilt Chamberlain Philadelphia Syracuse 53 March 14, 1960
Jerry West L.A. Lakers Boston 53 April 23, 1969
Jerry West L.A. Lakers Baltimore 52 April 5, 1965
Allen Iverson Philadelphia Toronto 52 May 16, 2001
Sam Jones Boston at New York 51 March 28, 1967
Eric Floyd Golden State L.A. Lakers 51 May 10, 1987
Bob Cousy Boston Syracuse 50* March 21, 1953
Bob Petit St. Louis Boston 50 April 12, 1958
Wilt Chamberlain Philadelphia at Boston 50 March 22, 1950
Wilt Chamberlain San Francisco St. Louis 50 April 10, 1964
Billy Cunningham Philadelphia Milwaukee 50 April 1, 1970
Bob McAdoo Buffalo Washington 50 April 18, 1975
Dominique Wilkins Atlanta Detroit 50 April 19, 1986
Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 50 April 28, 1988
Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 50^ May 5, 1989
Karl Malone Utah Seattle 50 April 22, 2000
Vince Carter Toronto Philadelphia 50 May 11, 2001
*4 overtimes
^overtime


ALL-TIME HIGHEST SCORING AVERAGES, NBA PLAYOFFS
Jerry West, LAL vs BAL, 1965..... 46.3
Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE, 1988..... 45.2
Michael Jordan, CHI vs MIA, 1992..... 45.0

ALL-TIME HIGHEST SCORING AVERAGES, NBA CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES/NBA FINALS
Michael Jordan, CHI vs PHO, 1993..... 41.0
Rick Barry, SFW vs PHI, 1965..... 40.8
Elgin Baylor, LAL vs BOS, 1962..... 40.6


Also MJ has 6 series in the playoffs over 40+ ppg.
And for people using the era difference, if that is the case why is Iverson 2nd all time in PPG in the PLAYOFFS and 6th all time in PPG in the season?

Hellcrooner
03-14-2011, 03:52 PM
:facepalm:

Say goodbye to the 4th threepeat Phil.

You just ensured our defeat.

he is going to shoot 50 shots a game the reste of the season.

Then do the same in the playoffs , and we will be taken out.

Ripper Gein
03-14-2011, 03:53 PM
People post whatever fits there own Agenda, even though I do agree kobe is no michael but you know people will ONLY come here to hate......

MelkyNYY
03-14-2011, 03:55 PM
No one is Michael Jordan.

championships
03-14-2011, 03:57 PM
Funny how the Article posted in this thread decided to leave some of the quotes out.

shep33
03-14-2011, 04:00 PM
I agree with Phil. Its actually unfair to kobe, and it makes people underappreciate what he's done for the game. We forget all the great things this guy has done especially when we compare him to Mike. MJ is the GOAT, but Kobe has been remarkable throughout his career.

-81 point game... put that in perspective for a second, that's just as if not more impressive than Wilt's 100. A guard scoring 81 in the modern NBA is ridiculous.

-63 points in 3 quarters. He outscored the Mavs by himself through 3.

-5 championships

-2 Finals MVP's

-4 All-star MVPs (kinda meaningless haha but oh well).

-Averaged 35.4ppg one season

-All-team defense countless times

-All-team NBA countless times


We can go on and on about his accomplishments, but as long as we continue to compare him to MJ nobody is going to really appreciate him. People will say well MJ's got 6 championships... Well Kobe has 5, and that's pretty elite company right there, but it's just that we overlook a lot of what he's done in comparing him to Mike, which is unfortunate.

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 04:00 PM
Funny how the Article posted in this thread decided to leave some of the quotes out.

and its annoying that some think this is a valid comparison.

championships
03-14-2011, 04:01 PM
This should close the thread right here...check it out:


Credit to Elgee for this.
Jordan/Kobe Comparison
Highest PPG Average: 30.12
Most seasons leading league in Points: 11
Most scoring titles: 10
Highest PER Efficiency: 27.91
Also, MJ is no doubt the greatest playoff performer and IMO he was the greatest Road Player Ever. Most of his greatest feats happened on the road.
The Playoffs is where you make your name and where greatness is defined.

Playoffs

Most Points Per Game (min. 25 games)
33.4 by Michael Jordan (179 games)

Most Points in a Game
63 by Michael Jordan

Most 50 Point Games
8 by Michael Jordan

Most 40 Point Games
38 by Michael Jordan

Most 30 Point Games
109 by Michael Jordan

Most 20 Point Games
174 by Michael Jordan (he played 179 playoff games and scored under 20 only 5 times)
-Highest PER Efficiency Playoffs: 28.59


Most Career 40+ Point Games in Playoffs History

1. MJ = 38
2. West = 20
3. Baylor = 14
4. Wilt = 13
5. Shaq = 12
6. Hakeem = 11
Kobe = 11
Iverson = 10
9. Lebron = 9


Most Career 30+ Point Games in Playoffs History
MJ - 109
Kobe - 78
Kareem - 75
West -74
Baylor - 60



MJ:
NBA Regular-season records Michael Jordan holds:
-Most seasons leading league in scoring: 10
-Highest scoring average, career: 30.12ppg
-Most consecutive points, one game: 23
-Most seasons leading league in field goals made: 10
-Most consecutive gms in double figures in scoring:
866
-Most consecutive seasons leading PER: 7
-Highest career PER: 27.91
-Oldest player to score 40+ points: age 40 (43 pts)
-Oldest player to score 50+ points: age 38 (51 pts)
NBA Regular-season records Michael Jordan shares:
-Most consecutive seasons leading league in scoring:
7 (tied with Wilt Chamberlain)
-Most consecutive seasons, 2,000 plus points: 11 (Tied
with Malone)

NBA Playoff records Michael Jordan holds:
-Highest scoring average, career: 33.4ppg
-Record Total points: 5987
-Record Most FTS made: 1463
-Most points playoffs, one-game: 63
-Most points playoffs, three-game series: 135 (vs.
Miami, 1992)
-Most Points playoffs, five-game series: 226 (vs.
Cleveland, 1988)
-Most field goals made playoffs, three-game series:
53 (vs. Miami, 1992)
-Most field goals made playoffs, five-game series: 86
(vs. Philadelphia, 1990)
-Most field goals made playoffs, six-game series: 101
(vs. Phoenix, 1993)
-Most consecutive 50pt games: 2
-Most consecutive 45pt games: 3
-Most consecutive games, 20 plus points: 60
-Most free throws made, one quarter: 13
-Most free throws attempted, one quarter: 14
-Most 50 point games: 8
-Most 40 point games: 39
-Most consecutive points: 23
NBA Playoff records Michael Jordan shares:
-Most field goals, in a game: 24 (vs. Cleveland, May
1, 1988; tied with two others)
-Most three-point field goals made, one half: 6
(first half vs. Portland, June 3, 1992; tied with four
others)
NBA Finals records Michael Jordan holds:
- Highest Scoring average: 33.6
-Most points, six-game series: 246 (vs. Phoenix,
1993)
-Most field goals made, five-game series: 63 (vs.
L.A. Lakers, 1991)
-Most field goals made, six-game series: 101 (vs.
Phoenix, 1993)
-Most steals, five-game series: 14 (vs. L.A. Lakers,
1991)
-Highest scoring average, one series: 41.0 (vs.
Phoenix, 1993)
-Most consecutive games, 40-plus points: 4 (June 11,
1993 to June 18, 1993)
-Most consecutive 30 point games: 9
-Most consecutive games, 20-plus points: 29 (June 22,
1991 to June 1997)
-Most points, one-half: 35 (vs. Portland, June 3,
1992)
-Most consecutive field goals: 13 (Vs. LA)
-Most consecutive points: 23 (Vs. Seattle)
-Most Finals MVPs: 6

Here is Kobe's
KOBE:
NBA Regular-season records Kobe holds:
-All-rookie game (now defunct): 31 points
NBA Regular-season records Kobe Shares:
-Most 3 pointers in one game: 12 (shared with 1
player)
-Most 3 pointers in one half: 8 (5 players)
-Most consecutive 3 pointers: 9 (2 players)
-Most free throws made in one quarter: 14 (5 players)
-Most free throws attempted one quarter: 16 (6
players)
NBA Playoff Records Kobe holds:
-NONE
NBA Playoff Records Kobe Shares:
-NONE
NBA Finals records Kobe holds:
-NONE
NBA Finals records Kobe Shares:
-NONE


Conclusion: MJ still owns the most
scoring records as well as ALMOST ALL THE PLAYOFF
Records. Take a look at the all time scoring feats at
the bottom. MJ has 21 of them and the most important
ones, Wilt has 16, Kobe has 1. Take away Wilt and MJ
climbs to 26 and Kobe has 8. Below that are MJ's
records and KB's records. Not even close.
Here's a list of ALL-TIME SCORING RECORDS.
- Highest career scoring average: MJ 30.12
- Highest career playoff scoring average: MJ 33.4
- Highest career Finals scoring average: MJ 33.6
- Highest single season scoring average: Wilt 50.4
- Highest single series playoff average: West 46.3
- Highest single Finals series average: MJ 41.0
- Most seasons leading league in scoring: MJ 10
- Most consecutive seasons leading in scoring: MJ,
Wilt tied at 7
- Most 50 point games: Wilt 118
- Most 50 point games playoffs: MJ 8
- Most 40 point games: Wilt 271
- Most 40 point games playoffs: MJ 42
- Most consecutive 60 point games: Wilt 4
- Most consecutive 50 point games: Wilt 7
- Most consecutive 50 point games in playoffs: MJ 2
- Most consecutive 45 point games: Wilt 7
- Most consecutive 45 point games playoffs: MJ 3
- Most consecutive 40 point games: Wilt 14
- Most consecutive 40 point games rookie: AI 5
- Most consecutive 40 point games playoffs: West 6
- Most consecutive 40 point games finals: MJ 4
- Most consecutive 35 point games: Wilt 33
- Most consecutive 30 point games: Wilt 65
- Most consecutive 30 point games playoffs: Elgin 11
- Most consecutive 30 point games finals: MJ 9
- Most consecutive 20 point games: Wilt 126
- Most consecutive 20 point games playoffs: MJ 60
- Most consecutive 20 point games finals: MJ 35
- Most consecutive double figures scoring: MJ 866
- Most consecutive points in one game: MJ 23
- Most consecutive points in one game playoffs: MJ 23
- Highest scoring game: Wilt 100
- Highest scoring game playoffs: MJ 63
- Highest scoring game finals: Elgin 61
- Highest scoring game rookie: Wilt 58
- Highest scoring all-star game: Wilt 42
- Highest scoring all-rookie game: Kobe 31
- Most points in 3 quarters: Wilt 69
- Most points in one half: Wilt 59
- Most points one half playoffs: Sleepy Floyd 39
- Most points in one half finals: MJ 35
- Most points one half all-star game: Rice 24
- Most points in one quarter: Gervin 33
- Most points in one quarter playoffs: Sleepy Floyd 29
- Most points in one quarter finals: Isiah 25
- Most points in one quarter all-star game: Rice 20
- Most points in OT: Arenas 16
- Most points in OT playoffs: Drexler 13
- Most points in OT in finals: Havlicek, Laimbeer,
Ainge tied at 9
- Oldest to score 50: MJ 51 at age 38
- Oldest to score 40: MJ 43 at age 40


The only thing Kobe really has on Jordan is the 3 pt range (which
Jordan was not bad at when he decided to take them, but onyl shot 1.66
a game on his career, Kobe is at 3.5), and arguably a better handle
(and Jordan had a really good handle, just wasn't and1 stuff). Jordan
is more creative in the lane, a better finisher, better mid-range and
in the post, the better passer, better offensive rebounder, shot
higher percentages, and turned it over less. Yes, Kobe is insane and
one of the best guys in the league right now...but better than
Mike? I think that's going too far.
And why is Jordan not getting credit for better shot selection?
Decision making isn't a skill?
Jordan 87-93 was pretty special, over 7 seasons he averaged 33.2 ppg
on 52% from the field. Again, that's a 7 season average. Looking at
points per 100 possessions, Jordan torches Kobe. Kobe has averaged 111
on his career (excluding this season), topping out at 114. Jordan
averaged 118 on his career (11 above the league average in those
seasons), hitting 125, and with 5 seasons at 123+. In 96 he was 24
pp100p better than the league average. Kobe at his best was 12 above
the league average (and 7 above league average on his career).
I don't know what world we are living in when better efficiency on a
larger volume, with better decision making, passing, less turnovers,
better offensive rebounding, post game, mid-range game, creating shots
and finishing in the lane, superior strength and athleticism, is all
outweighed by having more range. Personally, I think it is likely
Jordan could have developed similar range, but it would take away from
a deadly efficient, well balanced game. The differences in the skill
level aren't big, but all things considered, one player is definitely
better than the other.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas...vidual_points/
Top Playoff Single-Game Scoring Performances
Player Team Opponent Total Date
Michael Jordan Chicago at Boston 63 April 20, 1986
Elgin Baylor L.A. Lakers at Boston 61 April 14, 1962
Wilt Chamberlain Philadelphia Syracuse 56 March 22, 1962
Michael Jordan Chicago at Miami 56 April 29, 1992
Charles Barkley Phoenix at Golden State 56 May 4, 1994
Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 55 May 1, 1988
Michael Jordan Chicago Phoenix 55 June 16, 1993
Michael Jordan Chicago Washington 55 April 27, 1997
John Havlicek Boston Atlanta 54 April 1, 1973
Michael Jordan Chicago New York 54 May 31, 1993
Allen Iverson Philadelphia Toronto 54 May 9, 2001
Wilt Chamberlain Philadelphia Syracuse 53 March 14, 1960
Jerry West L.A. Lakers Boston 53 April 23, 1969
Jerry West L.A. Lakers Baltimore 52 April 5, 1965
Allen Iverson Philadelphia Toronto 52 May 16, 2001
Sam Jones Boston at New York 51 March 28, 1967
Eric Floyd Golden State L.A. Lakers 51 May 10, 1987
Bob Cousy Boston Syracuse 50* March 21, 1953
Bob Petit St. Louis Boston 50 April 12, 1958
Wilt Chamberlain Philadelphia at Boston 50 March 22, 1950
Wilt Chamberlain San Francisco St. Louis 50 April 10, 1964
Billy Cunningham Philadelphia Milwaukee 50 April 1, 1970
Bob McAdoo Buffalo Washington 50 April 18, 1975
Dominique Wilkins Atlanta Detroit 50 April 19, 1986
Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 50 April 28, 1988
Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 50^ May 5, 1989
Karl Malone Utah Seattle 50 April 22, 2000
Vince Carter Toronto Philadelphia 50 May 11, 2001
*4 overtimes
^overtime


ALL-TIME HIGHEST SCORING AVERAGES, NBA PLAYOFFS
Jerry West, LAL vs BAL, 1965..... 46.3
Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE, 1988..... 45.2
Michael Jordan, CHI vs MIA, 1992..... 45.0

ALL-TIME HIGHEST SCORING AVERAGES, NBA CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES/NBA FINALS
Michael Jordan, CHI vs PHO, 1993..... 41.0
Rick Barry, SFW vs PHI, 1965..... 40.8
Elgin Baylor, LAL vs BOS, 1962..... 40.6


Also MJ has 6 series in the playoffs over 40+ ppg.
And for people using the era difference, if that is the case why is Iverson 2nd all time in PPG in the PLAYOFFS and 6th all time in PPG in the season?

MJ was the best player ever. Numbers don't lie. You have to be a ball hog to put up those kind of numbers yet people who dislike Kobe like to say "He is a ball hog", He doesn't trust his teammates". " Shoots too much". Yeah well so was the G.O.A.T how else do you put up those numbers.

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 04:02 PM
I agree with Phil. Its actually unfair to kobe, and it makes people underappreciate what he's done for the game. We forget all the great things this guy has done especially when we compare him to Mike. MJ is the GOAT, but Kobe has been remarkable throughout his career.

-81 point game... put that in perspective for a second, that's just as if not more impressive than Wilt's 100. A guard scoring 81 in the modern NBA is ridiculous.

-63 points in 3 quarters. He outscored the Mavs by himself through 3.

-5 championships

-2 Finals MVP's

-4 All-star MVPs (kinda meaningless haha but oh well).

-Averaged 35.4ppg one season

-All-team defense countless times

-All-team NBA countless times


We can go on and on about his accomplishments, but as long as we continue to compare him to MJ nobody is going to really appreciate him. People will say well MJ's got 6 championships... Well Kobe has 5, and that's pretty elite company right there, but it's just that we overlook a lot of what he's done in comparing him to Mike, which is unfortunate.


I don't think MJ is the main reason. I think its because many young Laker fans who didn't watch Jordan continually cram him down our throats. It is going to be impossible for Kobe's stats, achievements, accolades, awards, and pure dominance to ever stack up to MJ. But nobodies really do, so Kobe fans shouldn't feel like their guy is being bashed.

John Walls Era
03-14-2011, 04:02 PM
Yup totally agree. Phil Jackson likes Simmons too huh :D. Just went up a notch in my book.... Jackson I mean.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-14-2011, 04:02 PM
Well...what's new...we all know PJ hates Kobe.

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 04:03 PM
MJ was the best player ever. Numbers don't lie. You have to be a ball hog to put up those kind of numbers yet people who dislike Kobe like to say "He is a ball hog", He doesn't trust his teammates". " Shoots too much". Yeah well so was the G.O.A.T how else do you put up those numbers.

Interesting point, and I have heard it before. And here is the answer. When Iverson, or Kobe are ball hogs, their teams suffer badly. When Jordan was a ballhog, his team won championships.

JordansBulls
03-14-2011, 04:05 PM
This should close the thread right here...check it out:


Credit to Elgee for this.
Jordan/Kobe Comparison
Highest PPG Average: 30.12
Most seasons leading league in Points: 11
Most scoring titles: 10
Highest PER Efficiency: 27.91
Also, MJ is no doubt the greatest playoff performer and IMO he was the greatest Road Player Ever. Most of his greatest feats happened on the road.
The Playoffs is where you make your name and where greatness is defined.

Playoffs

Most Points Per Game (min. 25 games)
33.4 by Michael Jordan (179 games)

Most Points in a Game
63 by Michael Jordan

Most 50 Point Games
8 by Michael Jordan

Most 40 Point Games
38 by Michael Jordan

Most 30 Point Games
109 by Michael Jordan

Most 20 Point Games
174 by Michael Jordan (he played 179 playoff games and scored under 20 only 5 times)
-Highest PER Efficiency Playoffs: 28.59


Most Career 40+ Point Games in Playoffs History

1. MJ = 38
2. West = 20
3. Baylor = 14
4. Wilt = 13
5. Shaq = 12
6. Hakeem = 11
Kobe = 11
Iverson = 10
9. Lebron = 9


Most Career 30+ Point Games in Playoffs History
MJ - 109
Kobe - 78
Kareem - 75
West -74
Baylor - 60



MJ:
NBA Regular-season records Michael Jordan holds:
-Most seasons leading league in scoring: 10
-Highest scoring average, career: 30.12ppg
-Most consecutive points, one game: 23
-Most seasons leading league in field goals made: 10
-Most consecutive gms in double figures in scoring:
866
-Most consecutive seasons leading PER: 7
-Highest career PER: 27.91
-Oldest player to score 40+ points: age 40 (43 pts)
-Oldest player to score 50+ points: age 38 (51 pts)
NBA Regular-season records Michael Jordan shares:
-Most consecutive seasons leading league in scoring:
7 (tied with Wilt Chamberlain)
-Most consecutive seasons, 2,000 plus points: 11 (Tied
with Malone)

NBA Playoff records Michael Jordan holds:
-Highest scoring average, career: 33.4ppg
-Record Total points: 5987
-Record Most FTS made: 1463
-Most points playoffs, one-game: 63
-Most points playoffs, three-game series: 135 (vs.
Miami, 1992)
-Most Points playoffs, five-game series: 226 (vs.
Cleveland, 1988)
-Most field goals made playoffs, three-game series:
53 (vs. Miami, 1992)
-Most field goals made playoffs, five-game series: 86
(vs. Philadelphia, 1990)
-Most field goals made playoffs, six-game series: 101
(vs. Phoenix, 1993)
-Most consecutive 50pt games: 2
-Most consecutive 45pt games: 3
-Most consecutive games, 20 plus points: 60
-Most free throws made, one quarter: 13
-Most free throws attempted, one quarter: 14
-Most 50 point games: 8
-Most 40 point games: 39
-Most consecutive points: 23
NBA Playoff records Michael Jordan shares:
-Most field goals, in a game: 24 (vs. Cleveland, May
1, 1988; tied with two others)
-Most three-point field goals made, one half: 6
(first half vs. Portland, June 3, 1992; tied with four
others)
NBA Finals records Michael Jordan holds:
- Highest Scoring average: 33.6
-Most points, six-game series: 246 (vs. Phoenix,
1993)
-Most field goals made, five-game series: 63 (vs.
L.A. Lakers, 1991)
-Most field goals made, six-game series: 101 (vs.
Phoenix, 1993)
-Most steals, five-game series: 14 (vs. L.A. Lakers,
1991)
-Highest scoring average, one series: 41.0 (vs.
Phoenix, 1993)
-Most consecutive games, 40-plus points: 4 (June 11,
1993 to June 18, 1993)
-Most consecutive 30 point games: 9
-Most consecutive games, 20-plus points: 29 (June 22,
1991 to June 1997)
-Most points, one-half: 35 (vs. Portland, June 3,
1992)
-Most consecutive field goals: 13 (Vs. LA)
-Most consecutive points: 23 (Vs. Seattle)
-Most Finals MVPs: 6

Here is Kobe's
KOBE:
NBA Regular-season records Kobe holds:
-All-rookie game (now defunct): 31 points
NBA Regular-season records Kobe Shares:
-Most 3 pointers in one game: 12 (shared with 1
player)
-Most 3 pointers in one half: 8 (5 players)
-Most consecutive 3 pointers: 9 (2 players)
-Most free throws made in one quarter: 14 (5 players)
-Most free throws attempted one quarter: 16 (6
players)
NBA Playoff Records Kobe holds:
-NONE
NBA Playoff Records Kobe Shares:
-NONE
NBA Finals records Kobe holds:
-NONE
NBA Finals records Kobe Shares:
-NONE


Conclusion: MJ still owns the most
scoring records as well as ALMOST ALL THE PLAYOFF
Records. Take a look at the all time scoring feats at
the bottom. MJ has 21 of them and the most important
ones, Wilt has 16, Kobe has 1. Take away Wilt and MJ
climbs to 26 and Kobe has 8. Below that are MJ's
records and KB's records. Not even close.
Here's a list of ALL-TIME SCORING RECORDS.
- Highest career scoring average: MJ 30.12
- Highest career playoff scoring average: MJ 33.4
- Highest career Finals scoring average: MJ 33.6
- Highest single season scoring average: Wilt 50.4
- Highest single series playoff average: West 46.3
- Highest single Finals series average: MJ 41.0
- Most seasons leading league in scoring: MJ 10
- Most consecutive seasons leading in scoring: MJ,
Wilt tied at 7
- Most 50 point games: Wilt 118
- Most 50 point games playoffs: MJ 8
- Most 40 point games: Wilt 271
- Most 40 point games playoffs: MJ 42
- Most consecutive 60 point games: Wilt 4
- Most consecutive 50 point games: Wilt 7
- Most consecutive 50 point games in playoffs: MJ 2
- Most consecutive 45 point games: Wilt 7
- Most consecutive 45 point games playoffs: MJ 3
- Most consecutive 40 point games: Wilt 14
- Most consecutive 40 point games rookie: AI 5
- Most consecutive 40 point games playoffs: West 6
- Most consecutive 40 point games finals: MJ 4
- Most consecutive 35 point games: Wilt 33
- Most consecutive 30 point games: Wilt 65
- Most consecutive 30 point games playoffs: Elgin 11
- Most consecutive 30 point games finals: MJ 9
- Most consecutive 20 point games: Wilt 126
- Most consecutive 20 point games playoffs: MJ 60
- Most consecutive 20 point games finals: MJ 35
- Most consecutive double figures scoring: MJ 866
- Most consecutive points in one game: MJ 23
- Most consecutive points in one game playoffs: MJ 23
- Highest scoring game: Wilt 100
- Highest scoring game playoffs: MJ 63
- Highest scoring game finals: Elgin 61
- Highest scoring game rookie: Wilt 58
- Highest scoring all-star game: Wilt 42
- Highest scoring all-rookie game: Kobe 31
- Most points in 3 quarters: Wilt 69
- Most points in one half: Wilt 59
- Most points one half playoffs: Sleepy Floyd 39
- Most points in one half finals: MJ 35
- Most points one half all-star game: Rice 24
- Most points in one quarter: Gervin 33
- Most points in one quarter playoffs: Sleepy Floyd 29
- Most points in one quarter finals: Isiah 25
- Most points in one quarter all-star game: Rice 20
- Most points in OT: Arenas 16
- Most points in OT playoffs: Drexler 13
- Most points in OT in finals: Havlicek, Laimbeer,
Ainge tied at 9
- Oldest to score 50: MJ 51 at age 38
- Oldest to score 40: MJ 43 at age 40


The only thing Kobe really has on Jordan is the 3 pt range (which
Jordan was not bad at when he decided to take them, but onyl shot 1.66
a game on his career, Kobe is at 3.5), and arguably a better handle
(and Jordan had a really good handle, just wasn't and1 stuff). Jordan
is more creative in the lane, a better finisher, better mid-range and
in the post, the better passer, better offensive rebounder, shot
higher percentages, and turned it over less. Yes, Kobe is insane and
one of the best guys in the league right now...but better than
Mike? I think that's going too far.
And why is Jordan not getting credit for better shot selection?
Decision making isn't a skill?
Jordan 87-93 was pretty special, over 7 seasons he averaged 33.2 ppg
on 52% from the field. Again, that's a 7 season average. Looking at
points per 100 possessions, Jordan torches Kobe. Kobe has averaged 111
on his career (excluding this season), topping out at 114. Jordan
averaged 118 on his career (11 above the league average in those
seasons), hitting 125, and with 5 seasons at 123+. In 96 he was 24
pp100p better than the league average. Kobe at his best was 12 above
the league average (and 7 above league average on his career).
I don't know what world we are living in when better efficiency on a
larger volume, with better decision making, passing, less turnovers,
better offensive rebounding, post game, mid-range game, creating shots
and finishing in the lane, superior strength and athleticism, is all
outweighed by having more range. Personally, I think it is likely
Jordan could have developed similar range, but it would take away from
a deadly efficient, well balanced game. The differences in the skill
level aren't big, but all things considered, one player is definitely
better than the other.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas...vidual_points/
Top Playoff Single-Game Scoring Performances
Player Team Opponent Total Date
Michael Jordan Chicago at Boston 63 April 20, 1986
Elgin Baylor L.A. Lakers at Boston 61 April 14, 1962
Wilt Chamberlain Philadelphia Syracuse 56 March 22, 1962
Michael Jordan Chicago at Miami 56 April 29, 1992
Charles Barkley Phoenix at Golden State 56 May 4, 1994
Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 55 May 1, 1988
Michael Jordan Chicago Phoenix 55 June 16, 1993
Michael Jordan Chicago Washington 55 April 27, 1997
John Havlicek Boston Atlanta 54 April 1, 1973
Michael Jordan Chicago New York 54 May 31, 1993
Allen Iverson Philadelphia Toronto 54 May 9, 2001
Wilt Chamberlain Philadelphia Syracuse 53 March 14, 1960
Jerry West L.A. Lakers Boston 53 April 23, 1969
Jerry West L.A. Lakers Baltimore 52 April 5, 1965
Allen Iverson Philadelphia Toronto 52 May 16, 2001
Sam Jones Boston at New York 51 March 28, 1967
Eric Floyd Golden State L.A. Lakers 51 May 10, 1987
Bob Cousy Boston Syracuse 50* March 21, 1953
Bob Petit St. Louis Boston 50 April 12, 1958
Wilt Chamberlain Philadelphia at Boston 50 March 22, 1950
Wilt Chamberlain San Francisco St. Louis 50 April 10, 1964
Billy Cunningham Philadelphia Milwaukee 50 April 1, 1970
Bob McAdoo Buffalo Washington 50 April 18, 1975
Dominique Wilkins Atlanta Detroit 50 April 19, 1986
Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 50 April 28, 1988
Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 50^ May 5, 1989
Karl Malone Utah Seattle 50 April 22, 2000
Vince Carter Toronto Philadelphia 50 May 11, 2001
*4 overtimes
^overtime


ALL-TIME HIGHEST SCORING AVERAGES, NBA PLAYOFFS
Jerry West, LAL vs BAL, 1965..... 46.3
Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE, 1988..... 45.2
Michael Jordan, CHI vs MIA, 1992..... 45.0

ALL-TIME HIGHEST SCORING AVERAGES, NBA CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES/NBA FINALS
Michael Jordan, CHI vs PHO, 1993..... 41.0
Rick Barry, SFW vs PHI, 1965..... 40.8
Elgin Baylor, LAL vs BOS, 1962..... 40.6


Also MJ has 6 series in the playoffs over 40+ ppg.
And for people using the era difference, if that is the case why is Iverson 2nd all time in PPG in the PLAYOFFS and 6th all time in PPG in the season?


Bro, how the hell are you doing to copy my post word for word???


http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17055653&postcount=443

I mean at least put stuff in quotes if someone else came up with it, or give them a shout out like I did on the first part of the post in mine.

Gators123
03-14-2011, 04:06 PM
Bro, how the hell are you doing to copy my post word for word???

lol

Muttman73
03-14-2011, 04:09 PM
MJ > Everyone, on the basket ball court anyway

ignorance=bliss
03-14-2011, 04:12 PM
Funny how the Article posted in this thread decided to leave some of the quotes out.

huh? funny isn't it?

Well this must completley unbiased. lol

iliketurtles24
03-14-2011, 04:12 PM
kobe is not like mike, just like nobody in the nba right now is like kobe, but comparing shoes, jordan blows him out of the water, although kobe's new shoes are a step in the right direction

KingPosey
03-14-2011, 04:13 PM
Imagine combining Kobe and MJ's skills and then putting it into Lebron's body. OMG, the league would never have no shot.

so the league would ALWAYS have A shot?

knightstemplar
03-14-2011, 04:13 PM
no ones gonna touch mj
but kobes one of the greatest, he will end up top 5 all time, if he continues

knightstemplar
03-14-2011, 04:15 PM
Interesting point, and I have heard it before. And here is the answer. When Iverson, or Kobe are ball hogs, their teams suffer badly. When Jordan was a ballhog, his team won championships.

kobes won 2 championships as the man

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-14-2011, 04:15 PM
lol

lol

smith&wesson
03-14-2011, 04:16 PM
when its all said and done. jordan will go down as the greatest player in history and then it will be kobe as the 2nd greatest when he wins his 6th ring and then it will be magic, bird, russle, big o ect.

UKblazers
03-14-2011, 04:19 PM
Alright, that makes sense now. Yeah you're definitely right, they will go down as the 2 greatest tandems of All-time.

Kobe & shaq?

Phxtoday
03-14-2011, 04:20 PM
I've been a Phoenix Suns fan all my life so natuarlly I've always hated Kobe, but I also respect the hell out of his game. With that being said, I don't recall excatly who said it so I know I'm losing creditability but the best way I've ever heard it put was this.. (and I also am a huge LeBron fan) "Kobe Bryant is not, and never will be Michael Jordan, or the next MJ. There will never be another Michael Jordan. We don't know what LeBron will do when it's all said and done, or who the next "IT" kid will be, or if there ever will be one, but I will say this, Kobe Bryant is the last true player that will be able to be compared to Michael Jordan. Kobe's game is designed after Jordan and he is the only player who will come close to the MJ comparsions. Kobe is the last in the 'MJ' era or with the same game. LeBron is the first superstar of the 'New Era or New Brand of Superstars.' But Kobe Bryant is the closest thing to Michael Jordan we'll ever have."

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 04:23 PM
kobes won 2 championships as the man

and he won them by not shooting shooting shooting. The point I was making is, Kobe's ballhogging hurts his team. You Laker fans know this for a fact. Jordan's ballhogging did not.

championships
03-14-2011, 04:23 PM
when its all said and done. jordan will go down as the greatest player in history and then it will be kobe as the 2nd greatest when he wins his 6th ring and then it will be magic, bird, russle, big o ect.

I'm cool with that.

knightstemplar
03-14-2011, 04:23 PM
I've been a Phoenix Suns fan all my life so natuarlly I've always hated Kobe, but I also respect the hell out of his game. With that being said, I don't recall excatly who said it so I know I'm losing creditability but the best way I've ever heard it put was this.. (and I also am a huge LeBron fan) "Kobe Bryant is not, and never will be Michael Jordan, or the next MJ. There will never be another Michael Jordan. We don't know what LeBron will do when it's all said and done, or who the next "IT" kid will be, or if there ever will be one, but I will say this, Kobe Bryant is the last true player that will be able to be compared to Michael Jordan. Kobe's game is designed after Jordan and he is the only player who will come close to the MJ comparsions. Kobe is the last in the 'MJ' era or with the same game. LeBron is the first superstar of the 'New Era or New Brand of Superstars.' But Kobe Bryant is the closest thing to Michael Jordan we'll ever have."

nice post, kobes the closest to mj, not better but closest

Me and Mr. T
03-14-2011, 04:24 PM
Nobody will ever be as good as MJ. Kobe is close, but there is still no comparison. I laugh my ****ing *** off every time I read some Heat fan post that Wade>Pippen. You either never watched Pippen play or you know absolutely nothing about basketball. Wade is a great player but couldn't hold Pippen's jock strap.

ichitownclowni
03-14-2011, 04:25 PM
WOW, and people think the heat players need the mic's taken away from them. Someone get this guy a nice tall glass of shut the **** up juice. Does this guy have like daily meetings with reporters to drop some statement that the media will run with???
no he has just coached 11 titles

rsweene
03-14-2011, 04:25 PM
Kobe has the 3 and the left hand. Other than that, how can you compare the GOAT to someone finishing his out career?

knightstemplar
03-14-2011, 04:25 PM
and he won them by not shooting shooting shooting. The point I was making is, Kobe's ballhogging hurts his team. You Laker fans know this for a fact. Jordan's ballhogging did not.

see 2010 playoffs, before the finals series
see 2009 nba finals

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 04:26 PM
when its all said and done. jordan will go down as the greatest player in history and then it will be kobe as the 2nd greatest when he wins his 6th ring and then it will be magic, bird, russle, big o ect.

Kobe has a ways to go to pass Bird, Magic, Jabbar, and Russell dude. I don't know if Jabbar is possible, but if Kobe can win another MVP, and a finals MVP, and get a ring or two more, with current averages holding up over the next 2 seasons after this one, then we will have to revisit it.

rsweene
03-14-2011, 04:26 PM
lol

lol

Lakerhead4ever
03-14-2011, 04:26 PM
I don't think MJ is the main reason. I think its because many young Laker fans who didn't watch Jordan continually cram him down our throats. It is going to be impossible for Kobe's stats, achievements, accolades, awards, and pure dominance to ever stack up to MJ. But nobodies really do, so Kobe fans shouldn't feel like their guy is being bashed.

dude your really annoying man. im tired of u always referring to laker fans as "YOUNG" as if u see rite thru the computer. no one on here is saying kobe is the greatest. its just conversation. if anyone is close to mj, it will be kobe. alot of ur points are correct but man u come off like the biggest kobe hater ever. like your denying his talent as being the great. and FYI there are plenty of kobe fans who arent laker fans. its about respect bro. im one of the biggest laker/kobe fan there is and even i know mj cant be touched. but Talent and competitive nature and many other things wise kobe can hang. and eveyone on here knows it. thats why the moment ppl see a kobe thread they come in here and hate. foolish

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 04:27 PM
see 2010 playoffs, before the finals series
see 2009 nba finals

yes, there have been some outliers. But you are straight up full of it if you really don't think the Lakers suffer when Kobe gets tunnel vision and just shoots away.

John Walls Era
03-14-2011, 04:27 PM
Better Question: When can anyone be considered greater than MJ. Don't get me wrong, I know hes the GOAT; but there is certainly bias when comparing players (Teams they were on, teams they played against ETC).

kblo247
03-14-2011, 04:29 PM
Interesting point, and I have heard it before. And here is the answer. When Iverson, or Kobe are ball hogs, their teams suffer badly. When Jordan was a ballhog, his team won championships.

When Jordan was a a ballhog without Pippen on his team in every season of his career, he never once finished with a .500 record. That is a fact in of itself as well as a Bull and Wizard.

Like I said KB24 will never be MJ, but MJ had his faults (the bad closeouts versus Utah and Seattle giving him trouble) as well that people overlook because of hero worship just the same. He will never have the huge hands, athleticism, body, raw power, or quickness. Conversely MJ never had his range and to quote Phil "ability to create a shot out of nowhere and make a prayer".

KB24 should be remembered as what he is. The second best SG in the game. The best streak scorer of his time. The guy who played the Pippen and Jordan roles for his team because he didn't have the personnel around him to do just one. The closer to 5 championship and 7 finals teams. The greatest Laker of all time when you actually look at the record book, his skill level, and are open to actually breaking Magic's deficiencies and failures down as well. And lastly for what he said he wants to be remembered for, longevity because at the end of the day the once constant in the league has always been him still being there no matter what new flavor comes in or old favor loses its fanfare.

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 04:29 PM
dude your really annoying man. im tired of u always referring to laker fans as "YOUNG" as if u see rite thru the computer. no one on here is saying kobe is the greatest. its just conversation. if anyone is close to mj, it will be kobe. alot of ur points are correct but man u come off like the biggest kobe hater ever. like your denying his talent as being the great. and FYI there are plenty of kobe fans who arent laker fans. its about respect bro. im one of the biggest laker/kobe fan there is and even i know mj cant be touched. but Talent and competitive nature and many other things wise kobe can hang. and eveyone on here knows it. thats why the moment ppl see a kobe thread they come in here and hate. foolish

injecting rational is a hater? New to me...

Where have I disrespected Kobe? I rate him fairly.

And yes, many Kobe fans talk in circles, there is no denying that. Sorry if some of the smarter ones get generalized with those who drink the Kobe-aid, but when the sheer numbers of fans on here are a fan of certain players, you will have to excuse me from not remembering every specific one of them.

And its not the first time I have been called an annoying fan. And it won't be the last. I am rational and fair on this site, and provide evidence for my claims. This annoys some people.

godolphins
03-14-2011, 04:30 PM
It this a motivational technique or is he just speaking his mind

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 04:31 PM
When Jordan was a a ballhog without Pippen on his team in every season of his career, he never finished with a .500 record. That is a fact in of itself as well as a Bull and Wizard.

Like I said KB24 will never be MJ, but MJ had his faults as well that people overlook because of hero worship just the same.

KB24 should be remembered as what he is the second best SG in the game, the best streak scorer of his time, the guy who played the Pippen and Jordan roles for his team because he didn't have the personnel around him to do just one, the closer to 5 championship and 7 finals teams, and the greatest Laker of all time when you actually look at the record book, his skill level, and are open to actually breaking Magic's deficiencies and failures down as well.


you are referring to Jordan's first 6 years I presume? I am not. I am referring to the championship years, when Jordan could shoot the ball 30 times a night routinely, and his team would come out on top.

The last paragraph, I am comfortable with for sure.

smith&wesson
03-14-2011, 04:32 PM
ppl will say kobe needed shaq, or kobe needs gasol to win a ship. jordan didnt win **** with out pippen remember that.
give kobe his respect, dont over hype jordan just because he is retired. if any one was ever deserving of being compared to jordan it would be kobe. so dont spend soo much time trying to shoot the comparison down. the closest thing you will ever see to jordan is kobe. kobe was very athletic in his early years, much like jordan was. now that he is older he has that killer fade away much like jordan had. yes i would say jordan is the over all better player, but kobe if any one is the closest thing in comparison.

lebron is a great talent but i compare lebron to magic. a 6'8 frame who is athletic and distributes the ball really well. Lebron also has 5 rings to win and a whole lot more to acomplish to be even deserving of this comparison.

i do beleive jordan to be the greatest to play the game. i put kobe up there at number 2. yes i take him over magic and bird.

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 04:36 PM
ppl will say kobe needed shaq, or kobe needs gasol to win a ship. jordan didnt win **** with out pippen remember that.
give kobe his respect, dont over hype jordan just because he is retired. if any one was ever deserving of being compared to jordan it would be kobe. so dont spend soo much time trying to shoot the comparison down. the closest thing you will ever see to jordan is kobe. kobe was very athletic in his early years, much like jordan was. now that he is older he has that killer fade away much like jordan had. yes i would say jordan is the over all better player, but kobe if any one is the closest thing in comparison.

lebron is a great talent but i compare lebron to magic. a 6'8 frame who is athletic and distributes the ball really well. Lebron also has 5 rings to win and a whole lot more to acomplish to be even deserving of this comparison.

EVERY star needs help to win.

Sure, Kobe's game physically resembles MJ's more than anyone I can possibly think of. So in that regard, there is a comparison.

LeBron's game doesn't resembles Jordan's at all. I like the Magic comparison, but Magic would never have stood for losing like LeBron has. leBron has a lot of ground to cover to catch any of those guys.

knightstemplar
03-14-2011, 04:38 PM
Just curious.....why is it that Kobe is the only current player that's held to the "Jordan standard"?

When you ask the Kobe detractors to talk about Kobe, the first thing you will most likely hear is, “he’s not Michael Jordan.” What exactly does that mean? Is not being better than Jordan a bad thing?

Saying Kobe Bryant is no Michael Jordan really isn’t saying anything, its just ignoring who he is because of who he is not.

ne3xchamps
03-14-2011, 04:38 PM
yeah... why do we need a thread about old crusty phil jackson speaking the truth. A lot of people not living in a fantasy world knows Jordan is in a class all by himself.

Rose-For-Prez
03-14-2011, 04:38 PM
Huge Jordan fan here and I am actually old enough to remember him play. Because of that I know he is the GOAT and always will be, but Kobe is one heck of a player he is probably the second best guard after Jordan. Kobe deserves his own respect

LA_Raiders
03-14-2011, 04:38 PM
I can see Kobe prove him wrong...

ne3xchamps
03-14-2011, 04:39 PM
It this a motivational technique or is he just speaking his mind

IMO its both.

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 04:40 PM
Just curious.....why is it that Kobe is the only current player that's held to the "Jordan standard"?

When you ask the Kobe detractors to talk about Kobe, the first thing you will most likely hear is, hes not Michael Jordan. What exactly does that mean? Is not being better than Jordan a bad thing?

Saying Kobe Bryant is no Michael Jordan really isnt saying anything, its just ignoring who he is because of who he is not.

great point dude. The only thing I can think of, is how closely Kobe's game physically looks like MJ's, and the fact that everyone was looking for the next Jordan, and Kobe fit the mold.

Its completely unfair to judge Kobe next to Mike. I don't think the first thing you hear is, "he is not MJ". I think unless its brought up by someone trying to derail a conversation, most don't even think about it.

championships
03-14-2011, 04:43 PM
Comparisons really don't mean crap to me. All I know is this kid has been a big part of my favorite team winning 5 ships. A 3 peat with another possible 3 peat. He has been a big part of getting to 7 finals appearances. How many of you have a player on your favorite team that has done that for you?

RaiderLakersA's
03-14-2011, 04:44 PM
Kobe is a great player in his own right.

End of story and close.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-14-2011, 04:44 PM
and he won them by not shooting shooting shooting. The point I was making is, Kobe's ballhogging hurts his team. You Laker fans know this for a fact. Jordan's ballhogging did not.

could be...but not always

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 04:44 PM
Comparisons really don't mean crap to me. All I know is this kid has been a big part of my favorite team winning 5 ships. A 3 peat with another possible 3 peat. He has been a big part of getting to 7 finals appearances. How many of you have a player on your favorite team that has done that for you?

honestly, that should be the realistic response from any Laker fan. Isn't it good enough what he has given you? So what if he isn't as good as MJ. He is plenty good enough to keep you guys celebrating.

kblo247
03-14-2011, 04:45 PM
you are referring to Jordan's first 6 years I presume? I am not. I am referring to the championship years, when Jordan could shoot the ball 30 times a night routinely, and his team would come out on top.

The last paragraph, I am comfortable with for sure.

Yeah his pre-Pippen Bulls career and post-Pippen Wizards career.

Other than that I never got the comparison to MJ aside from sharing a position. Kobe himself has always deflected them and instead compared himself to the standards the other past Lakers set and Russell's title number. Yeah, he took some from MJ's game but he also has some of West's in there as well because Jerry taught him a good bit. He even has some Tony Parker, Hakeem, and whoever he thinks would make him better.

As he relates to the Lakers, there has never been a peimeter player that was asked to do more be they Magic or West and many of the greats Kareem/Cooper/Worthy/Scott/Nixon/West have all acknowledged that because his personnel has never been filled with specialists. He has never played with a guy whose sole dedication is post defense and rebounding. Sure he got Ron, but he missed out on prime Ron unlike when Magic had Cooper who could guard 4 positions. He never had a guy who could be the primary playmaker for the team so that he didn't have to and could focus on scoring the ball. That just isn't how LA has built teams during his tenure so there has always been an obvious need for balance on his part for his team to function properly.

There are times where he blends defense, playmaking, scoring, rebounding, and leading seamlessly. There are times where he really ****s it up because he either takes it upon himself to carry too much offensive load or he totally takes himself out the game by going too "Kobe Nash" and not establishing his own offensive rhythm.

He is who he is and at the end of the day with all those faults and all those strengths he manages to help his team win more than any other player in history since Michael, so he should be appreciated for that in my opinion. He has given me 15 years of watching air balls, growth into a sixth man and all star, growth into a starter, complete domination of every western powerhouse there was during the 3 peat, a bad breakup that was bound to happen one way or the other, a lottery season, 2 historic seasons on a team that was kind of in no man's land, and 3 more finals with 2 more rings after saying "if they give me help, I'll win, and if I don't blame me". At the end of the day he is a Laker and has been one for longer than any other in history and I'll always remember his whole career and journey that he went through from the 17 year old kid to now to he hangs em up.

JordansBulls
03-14-2011, 04:45 PM
Just curious.....why is it that Kobe is the only current player that's held to the "Jordan standard"?

When you ask the Kobe detractors to talk about Kobe, the first thing you will most likely hear is, hes not Michael Jordan. What exactly does that mean? Is not being better than Jordan a bad thing?

Saying Kobe Bryant is no Michael Jordan really isnt saying anything, its just ignoring who he is because of who he is not.

Similar game, similar style, same height, same coach, killer assassins and are compared to him. If guys like Wade or Lebron were compared to MJ more it would be the same.
Just like if Dwight was compared to Kareem or Hakeem or Russell, he would be seen in an unfair light as well.

RaiderLakersA's
03-14-2011, 04:48 PM
Comparisons really don't mean crap to me. All I know is this kid has been a big part of my favorite team winning 5 ships. A 3 peat with another possible 3 peat. He has been a big part of getting to 7 finals appearances. How many of you have a player on your favorite team that has done that for you?

Good point. But we can talk until we're, well, purple in the face, but the haters will hate. They'll velcro themselves to the first part of Phil's statement, but easily miss the predicate...and in my opinion, the only part of his statement that really matters. Jordan is rare Air, but Kobe has a unique greatness all his own as well for many reasons, including the ones that you point out.

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 04:49 PM
Yeah his pre-Pippen Bulls career and post-Pippen Wizards career.

Other than that I never got the comparison to MJ aside from sharing a position. Kobe himself has always deflected them and instead compared himself to the standards the other past Lakers set and Russell's title number. Yeah, he took some from MJ's game but he also has some of West's in there as well because Jerry taught him a good bit. He even has some Tony Parker, Hakeem, and whoever he thinks would make him better.

As he relates to the Lakers, there has never been a peimeter player that was asked to do more be they Magic or West and many of the greats Kareem/Cooper/Worthy/Scott/Nixon/West have all acknowledged that because his personnel has never been filled with specialists. He has never played with a guy whose sole dedication is post defense and rebounding. Sure he got Ron, but he missed out on prime Ron unlike when Magic had Cooper who could guard 4 positions. He never had a guy who could be the primary playmaker for the team so that he didn't have to and could focus on scoring the ball. That just isn't how LA has built teams during his tenure so there has always been an obvious need for balance on his part for his team to function properly.

There are times where he blends defense, playmaking, scoring, rebounding, and leading seamlessly. There are times where he really ****s it up because he either takes it upon himself to carry too much offensive load or he totally takes himself out the game by going too "Kobe Nash" and not establishing his own offensive rhythm. He is who he is and at the end of the day with all those faults and all those strengths he manages to help his team win more than any other player in history since Michael, so he should be appreciated for that in my opinion.

:clap:

I really don't see why fans get so worked up about the next MJ. Kobe sure as **** doesn't care if he is or not

showtym24
03-14-2011, 04:53 PM
Who. Gives. A. ****. MJ is retired. Has been for 8 years now. **** gets so old.

smith&wesson
03-14-2011, 04:55 PM
Huge Jordan fan here and I am actually old enough to remember him play. Because of that I know he is the GOAT and always will be, but Kobe is one heck of a player he is probably the second best guard after Jordan. Kobe deserves his own respect

this.

JordansBulls
03-14-2011, 05:10 PM
When Jordan was a a ballhog without Pippen on his team in every season of his career, he never once finished with a .500 record. That is a fact in of itself as well as a Bull and Wizard.

Like I said KB24 will never be MJ, but MJ had his faults (the bad closeouts versus Utah and Seattle giving him trouble) as well that people overlook because of hero worship just the same. He will never have the huge hands, athleticism, body, raw power, or quickness. Conversely MJ never had his range and to quote Phil "ability to create a shot out of nowhere and make a prayer".

KB24 should be remembered as what he is. The second best SG in the game. The best streak scorer of his time. The guy who played the Pippen and Jordan roles for his team because he didn't have the personnel around him to do just one. The closer to 5 championship and 7 finals teams. The greatest Laker of all time when you actually look at the record book, his skill level, and are open to actually breaking Magic's deficiencies and failures down as well. And lastly for what he said he wants to be remembered for, longevity because at the end of the day the once constant in the league has always been him still being there no matter what new flavor comes in or old favor loses its fanfare.

Good post for the most part, just wanted to comment on something.

MJ was 2nd in the league in PER and Win Shares as a rookie, meaning the only other player that year that does better with the Bulls is Bird, who was #1 in both. He went to a team with the 2nd worst record in the league as well.

In 1987 MJ led in both PER and Win Shares, meaning no one else does better that year on the Bulls than he does that was in the league.

In fact in 1987 we were predicted to win only 25 games. CBS Intro 1986 Christmas Bulls at Knicks @ 2:05 mark (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52D6FDJDCvc)

In the 80's you needed a stacked team in the "EASTERN CONFERENCE" to just win near 50 games. Hell even the Lakers in 1984 won 54 games and they were stacked as hell.

Lakerhead4ever
03-14-2011, 05:11 PM
injecting rational is a hater? New to me...

Where have I disrespected Kobe? I rate him fairly.

And yes, many Kobe fans talk in circles, there is no denying that. Sorry if some of the smarter ones get generalized with those who drink the Kobe-aid, but when the sheer numbers of fans on here are a fan of certain players, you will have to excuse me from not remembering every specific one of them.

And its not the first time I have been called an annoying fan. And it won't be the last. I am rational and fair on this site, and provide evidence for my claims. This annoys some people.

lol dude stop it.:facepalm: u seem caught up in the 90s era where mj was his only competition. where scoring titles and and mvp's and rings came fairly easy with a team like the bulls.

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 05:18 PM
lol dude stop it.:facepalm: u seem caught up in the 90s era where mj was his only competition. where scoring titles and and mvp's and rings came fairly easy with a team like the bulls.

remember the rational thing I was talking about? Try it dude.

AIRMAR72
03-14-2011, 05:27 PM
Interesting point, and I have heard it before. And here is the answer. When Iverson, or Kobe are ball hogs, their teams suffer badly. When Jordan was a ballhog, his team won championships.
YUP YUP i agree JORDAN makes his SHOTS AND played D and LOOK GOOD doing IT every single NITE

D1JM
03-14-2011, 05:36 PM
Bro, how the hell are you doing to copy my post word for word???


http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17055653&postcount=443

I mean at least put stuff in quotes if someone else came up with it, or give them a shout out like I did on the first part of the post in mine.

sue him JB.

Jewelz0376
03-14-2011, 05:41 PM
:horse:

By the time Kobe's career is done he will be in the discussion for GOAT...kinda like a nominee for the award along with magic, wilt, kareem, bird, and maybe russell...Assuming he can win another ring....although in my mind Jordan always have that title...

The funny thing though about Jordan is the more time that goes by the more he is widely considered that goat..I remember right after he retired many people I heard speak about it still thought Magic, Bird, or Kareem were the best... (Magic was the most common answer)... and these were people that had respectable opinions on the nba...

Kobe will def go down as one of the greats as of now and still could add plenty more to his legacy, but any1 reaching Jordans level...let alone passing it in my mind is almost impossible to imagine a player doing..

SteveNash
03-14-2011, 05:41 PM
Kobe is not Michael Jordan, he's never quit on his team to play baseball. Tracy McGrady would be a better comparison for Jordan.

Avenged
03-14-2011, 05:45 PM
What Phil says is the obvious.. I just don't understand how there are always discussions about this and it's always the same people arguing. Sooner or later, I would have gotten bored reading the same response week after week.

Hustlenomics
03-14-2011, 05:49 PM
Kobe is not Michael Jordan, he's never quit on his team to play baseball. Tracy McGrady would be a better comparison for Jordan.

what the hell is wrong with you

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-14-2011, 05:51 PM
Kobe is not Michael Jordan, he's never quit on his team to play baseball. Tracy McGrady would be a better comparison for Jordan.

lmao:laugh:

Doogolas
03-14-2011, 05:52 PM
Kobe is not Michael Jordan, he's never quit on his team to play baseball. Tracy McGrady would be a better comparison for Jordan.

:laugh:

Jewelz0376
03-14-2011, 05:54 PM
What Phil says is the obvious.. I just don't understand how there are always discussions about this and it's always the same people arguing. Sooner or later, I would have gotten bored reading the same response week after week.

Hahaha I was thinking the same thing when I read thru this thread...It's almost like the Lebron vs Kobe argument..it's just the same responses over and over and over after awhile you'd think it'd get old...

SteveNash
03-14-2011, 05:56 PM
what the hell is wrong with you

Problem? Tracy McGrady has talked about wanting to play baseball when he's done with the NBA. AFAIK Kobe has never talked about quitting the NBA to play baseball. Though given his superior drive, he'd probably succeed.

AddiX
03-14-2011, 05:56 PM
What Phil says is the obvious.. I just don't understand how there are always discussions about this and it's always the same people arguing. Sooner or later, I would have gotten bored reading the same response week after week.

Well most of the time it's young laker/Kobe fans who bring it up.

CrazyShawn
03-14-2011, 06:09 PM
I was saying that Lebron/Wade is the closest to MJ-Pippen and they could be just as good as them, long shot, but no need to write them off. As for individually MJ is far superior to anyone thats ever played. MJ>>Lebron but Wade>Pippen.

Pippen was >Wade sorry to tell you this but its true

AIRMAR72
03-14-2011, 06:15 PM
ppl will say kobe needed shaq, or kobe needs gasol to win a ship. jordan didnt win **** with out pippen remember that.
give kobe his respect, dont over hype jordan just because he is retired. if any one was ever deserving of being compared to jordan it would be kobe. so dont spend soo much time trying to shoot the comparison down. the closest thing you will ever see to jordan is kobe. kobe was very athletic in his early years, much like jordan was. now that he is older he has that killer fade away much like jordan had. yes i would say jordan is the over all better player, but kobe if any one is the closest thing in comparison.

lebron is a great talent but i compare lebron to magic. a 6'8 frame who is athletic and distributes the ball really well. Lebron also has 5 rings to win and a whole lot more to acomplish to be even deserving of this comparison.

i do beleive jordan to be the greatest to play the game. i put kobe up there at number 2. yes i take him over magic and bird.
you need to understand that Jordan nourish Pippen game pippen was inconsistant in his early yrs if it wasnt for Jordan Pippen would have NEVER develop to Da player that he became da best skilled SF ever Kobe should be compare(im talking SKILLZ not rings) to players like Joe Dumar,Clyde Drexler,Allen Iverson Vince Carter,T-mac etc nobody should compare to Jordan,Mchale,Da Dream,Ervin Johnson and Scottie Pippen,Bird,Shaq(Orlando version) THESE GUYS are ALL one of KIND type of players if saw them play you would know what grown folks talking about

AIRMAR72
03-14-2011, 06:24 PM
Kobe is not Michael Jordan, he's never quit on his team to play baseball. Tracy McGrady would be a better comparison for Jordan.

crack baby from da 80s or 90s?

AIRMAR72
03-14-2011, 06:34 PM
Better Question: When can anyone be considered greater than MJ. Don't get me wrong, I know hes the GOAT; but there is certainly bias when comparing players (Teams they were on, teams they played against ETC).
ive been waiting for someone better than him(MJ) since 92 when he(jordan) was still playing his prime game SADLY i havent SEEN that player just imitation but kobe by far is da best jordan imitator he works VERY hard at it

John Walls Era
03-14-2011, 06:38 PM
SMH SteveNash... I actually found you quite hilarious and witty before that post.

D1JM
03-14-2011, 06:59 PM
Imagine combining Kobe and MJ's skills and then putting it into Lebron's body. OMG, the league would never have no shot.

Or you can just imagine MJ in this offensive favor, no hand-check, and no hard foul era. No need to put him in no ones body, he wouldn't be stopped. Easily would Avg about 15 ft a game and about 35+ points a game.

Also, let's not get too excited over lebron. He hasn't proven nothing just yet

smiddy012
03-14-2011, 06:59 PM
Another Kobe vs MJ thread

:facepalm:

:facepalm:

:facepalm:

allSUAVE
03-14-2011, 06:59 PM
10 to 15 years People Going to say there would never be another Kobe. Smh!

smiddy012
03-14-2011, 07:00 PM
Or you can just imagine MJ in this offensive favor, no hand-check, and no hard foul era. No need to put him in no ones body, he wouldn't be stopped. Easily would Avg about 15 ft a game and about 35+ points a game.

People forget the frequency at which MJ averaged 30+ PPG per season.

knightstemplar
03-14-2011, 07:01 PM
Or you can just imagine MJ in this offensive favor, no hand-check, and no hard foul era. No need to put him in no ones body, he wouldn't be stopped. Easily would Avg about 15 ft a game and about 35+ points a game.

Also, let's not get too excited over lebron. He hasn't proven nothing just yet

not trying to bash mj, but imagine if they actually called traveling, double dribbles, and calling an offensive foul on that push off last shot

IversonIsKrazy
03-14-2011, 07:04 PM
Kobe is still a remarkable player. And IlStateOfMind, ur sig (msg) is amazing!

D1JM
03-14-2011, 07:09 PM
not trying to bash mj, but imagine if they actually called traveling, double dribbles, and calling an offensive foul on that push off last shot

Kobe knows a thing or two about that. I don't know why 2002 just popped up in my head

knightstemplar
03-14-2011, 07:12 PM
Kobe knows a thing or two about that. I don't know why 2002 just popped up in my head

lol, but mj was david sterns money making star, he got more call than kobe, i mean that "last shot" was a push off, if that was anybody else its an o-foul

lakers4sho
03-14-2011, 07:16 PM
Colby is ze greatest. But MJ is greater.

I love Colby.

D1JM
03-14-2011, 07:17 PM
lol, but mj was david sterns money making star, he got more call than kobe, i mean that "last shot" was a push off, if that was anybody else its an o-foul

Yes he was. Than MJ would Avg about 20ft a game and about 45 points per game in this era. He would still be stern's $ figure too.

Albrecht Duerer
03-14-2011, 07:19 PM
lol, but mj was david sterns money making star, he got more call than kobe, i mean that "last shot" was a push off, if that was anybody else its an o-foul

This is a ridiculous statement to make when you realize the syle of play the league allowed the Pistons (and later the Knicks and others) to play. Jordan was better at getting to the basket. He was also subjected to more hard fouls than Kobe.

If anything, Jordan should have got more calls.


Also, what you're calling a pushoff is really Russel overplaying the drive. Theres no way Jordan could have pushed Russell hard enough where he was out of position that much.

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 07:23 PM
:horse:

By the time Kobe's career is done he will be in the discussion for GOAT...kinda like a nominee for the award along with magic, wilt, kareem, bird, and maybe russell...Assuming he can win another ring....although in my mind Jordan always have that title...

The funny thing though about Jordan is the more time that goes by the more he is widely considered that goat..I remember right after he retired many people I heard speak about it still thought Magic, Bird, or Kareem were the best... (Magic was the most common answer)... and these were people that had respectable opinions on the nba...

Kobe will def go down as one of the greats as of now and still could add plenty more to his legacy, but any1 reaching Jordans level...let alone passing it in my mind is almost impossible to imagine a player doing..


because advanced statistics and research have now been discovered. And Jordan's numbers, when dug into heavily, crap on everyone else's. Along with all the arguments of yesterday

The Final Boss
03-14-2011, 07:24 PM
What's adorable about fans is how they fail to put the demographic element in comparisons. The league was 42% Caucasian between '84-'97 when Jordan played. It dopped to 34% between '97-'00. And currently stands between 10-14%. Bryant has and will continue to play against FAR superior athletes than Jordan.

Teeboy1487
03-14-2011, 07:25 PM
I as a Lakers fan was never was stupid enough to say Kobe was better than MJ. I won't dare compare their careers.

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 07:25 PM
not trying to bash mj, but imagine if they actually called traveling, double dribbles, and calling an offensive foul on that push off last shot

and what if you weren't allowed to be touched on the perimeter then? Or when you went thru the lane and had to grapple your way thru, they called a foul?

Albrecht Duerer
03-14-2011, 07:26 PM
BTW, Ive seem more and more people come clean in acknowledging that the NBA tolerated tougher defense when Jordan played. The handcecking and other stuff is a huge difference. Under today's rules, Jordan could have averaged over 50 ppg over a season.

Like many have said, its surprising that anyone would dispute what Phil and others are saying. You really have to question the age of the people disputing this.

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 07:26 PM
What's adorable about fans is how they fail to put the demographic element in comparisons. The league was 42% Caucasian between '84-'97 when Jordan played. It dopped to 34% between '97-'00. And currently stands between 10-14%. Bryant has and will continue to play against FAR superior athletes than Jordan.

and Jordan played against far superior BASKETBALL players, especially in the first 9 years of his career.

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 07:28 PM
BTW, Ive seem more and more people come clean in acknowledging that the NBA tolerated tougher defense when Jordan played. The handcecking and other stuff is a huge difference. Under today's rules, Jordan could have averaged over 50 ppg over a season.

Like many have said, its surprising that anyone would dispute what Phil and others are saying. You really have to question the age of the people disputing this.

completely agree.

mlisica19
03-14-2011, 07:32 PM
The 80's and 90's was the best years in basketball. A whole lot more of players played with toughness and fire and the will to win. Now players are more about flash and skill. Players back then were a whole lot tougher, the game allowed for tougher defense and teams were itching to play hard ball rather than focus on offense.

Jordan had to play through this, and as you all know the story. He dominated it. He was an all star from the beginning. His all star status grew within years to being an elite player then turned G.O.A.T.

14 out of 50 of the best NBA players of all time played against MJ. I guess out of 48 since he played with one and he was one.
If Jordan did not retire he most likely would have won 2 more.

Broadwayjoe NY
03-14-2011, 07:36 PM
WOW, and people think the heat players need the mic's taken away from them. Someone get this guy a nice tall glass of shut the **** up juice. Does this guy have like daily meetings with reporters to drop some statement that the media will run with???

Daily, maybe not, but multiple times per week?? Yes. Every head coach in every professional and collegiate sport are required by the orginization to make themselves available to the media. At said meetings, they answer questions and sometimes offer up information all on their own, given their mood. What the media chooses to run with is their own business.

You acting like Jackson is the only coach that talks to the media is foolish. He has 11 rings and when anyone mentions the lightning rod topics such as Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan, especially in the same sentence, you're going to have it in the media.

PLAYERS FAN
03-14-2011, 07:44 PM
Kobe is the most skill player that ever play this game.

DoubleDragon
03-14-2011, 07:47 PM
None of this is news. Kobe is Kobe, Michael is Michael.
Comparison's are for those with little imagination.
30 years from now, MJ, Magic, Kobe, LBJ will ALL be Hall of Fame legends that a new generation will marvel at.
Enjoy em while they're here.

Voodoo Alchemy
03-14-2011, 07:51 PM
phil's statement isn't opinion...it's fact!

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 07:55 PM
Kobe is the most skill player that ever play this game.

imho, that would be Larry Bird dude.

jim51990
03-14-2011, 08:03 PM
totally agree
but i will say i think magic was better them mj

Geargo Wallace
03-14-2011, 08:05 PM
Kobe is the most skill player that ever play this game.

He had a great mix of skill and athleticism. I dunno about MOST skilled. MJ, Bird... hell AI etc.

THE GIPPER
03-14-2011, 08:18 PM
imho, that would be Larry Bird dude.

Maybe, but i would think it would be a point guard because i assume most pg's ball handling skills are better than bird's but i cant say because he was before my time. Maybe Nash?

barreleffact
03-14-2011, 08:29 PM
I juswt wonder how different Kobe's legacy would be if he had been blessed with Jordans athleticism.

THE GIPPER
03-14-2011, 08:31 PM
I juswt wonder how different Kobe's legacy would be if he had been blessed with Jordans athleticism.

Kobe was VERY athletic..

Geargo Wallace
03-14-2011, 08:32 PM
I juswt wonder how different Kobe's legacy would be if he had been blessed with Jordans athleticism.

Kobe used to be able to fly. Maybe not high as MJ, but his athleticism didn't hold him back at all.

on another note: Pete Maravich had some great skill.

Geargo Wallace
03-14-2011, 08:33 PM
I wonder how good Duncan would have been with Griffin's athleticism...

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 08:38 PM
Maybe, but i would think it would be a point guard because i assume most pg's ball handling skills are better than bird's but i cant say because he was before my time. Maybe Nash?

well, a so called unathletic player who couldn't jump over a notebook is rated as a top 5 player ever even by non-fans, yes, his skill level is what got him there

barreleffact
03-14-2011, 08:39 PM
Kobe used to be able to fly. Maybe not high as MJ, but his athleticism didn't hold him back at all.

on another note: Pete Maravich had some great skill.

Kobe's athleticism when compared to Jordans is like Kobe's skillset and career when compared to Jordan's. AMAZING for anyone else, but second rate compared to MJ.

hard_candy
03-14-2011, 08:40 PM
If he hadn't retired the first and second time, he had a legitimate shot at not only 8, but 9 or 10.


The 80's and 90's was the best years in basketball. A whole lot more of players played with toughness and fire and the will to win. Now players are more about flash and skill. Players back then were a whole lot tougher, the game allowed for tougher defense and teams were itching to play hard ball rather than focus on offense.

Jordan had to play through this, and as you all know the story. He dominated it. He was an all star from the beginning. His all star status grew within years to being an elite player then turned G.O.A.T.

14 out of 50 of the best NBA players of all time played against MJ. I guess out of 48 since he played with one and he was one.
If Jordan did not retire he most likely would have won 2 more.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
03-14-2011, 08:41 PM
Is it just me or does Phil Jackson seem to comment on everything.

Albrecht Duerer
03-14-2011, 08:42 PM
Is it just me or does Phil Jackson seem to comment on everything.

Phil's well-read.

barreleffact
03-14-2011, 08:42 PM
I wonder how good Duncan would have been with Griffin's athleticism...

If he still developed his amazng skillset:speechless:

Geargo Wallace
03-14-2011, 08:46 PM
Kobe's athleticism when compared to Jordans is like Kobe's skillset and career when compared to Jordan's. AMAZING for anyone else, but second rate compared to MJ.

greatness lies in more than just skill sets and athleticism.

THE GIPPER
03-14-2011, 08:50 PM
well, a so called unathletic player who couldn't jump over a notebook is rated as a top 5 player ever even by non-fans, yes, his skill level is what got him there

I agree but him being 6'9 obviously helped a lot

JJ_JKidd
03-14-2011, 08:52 PM
No one is. Not even the self-proclaimed "King" or "Chosen One."

Hawkeye15
03-14-2011, 08:57 PM
I agree but him being 6'9 obviously helped a lot

so does having a 38" vertical and cat quicks haha.

But yeah, we agree to an extent

Jewelz0376
03-14-2011, 10:22 PM
because advanced statistics and research have now been discovered. And Jordan's numbers, when dug into heavily, crap on everyone else's. Along with all the arguments of yesterday

Yea thats true, but the majority of people who think Jordan is the GOAT have never really looked at his advanced stats...and by majority I mean in general...not people on this message board

Geargo Wallace
03-14-2011, 10:23 PM
Yea thats true, but the majority of people who think Jordan is the GOAT have never really looked at his advanced stats...and by majority I mean in general...not people on this message board

so i guess the stats aren't true unless you've read them.

Anilyzer
03-15-2011, 12:00 AM
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2011-03-14/phil-jackson-says-kobe-bryant-not-in-michael-jordans-company

With Kobe Bryant having won five NBA titles, one away from Michael Jordan’s six, the comparisons between the two are inevitable. But Phil Jackson, who coached Bryant’s Lakers and Jordan’s Bulls to all 11 of their combined titles, thinks Jordan is in his own stratosphere and that the conversations comparing the two stars should stop.

"Kobe has patterned himself after Michael, and there are a lot of identical things there,” Jackson told the Los Angeles Times, “but it's one thing to hope to be like him, it's another thing to be like him."

Kobe Bryant earns high praise from Phil Jackson, but the Lakers coach says his current star should not be compared to Michael Jordan. (AP photo)
"I'm with (ESPN's) Bill Simmons on this," he added. "We have to take Michael Jordan out of the equation. Stop comparing anyone to Michael Jordan. It's just not fair. He was remarkable. ...

"(Kobe) doesn't shoot the same percentage (.455) as Michael (.497). He has the same characteristics as Michael, but he's not the same player. It takes nothing away from him — he's a great player in his own right."


"You can't compare Kobe to Jordan. Jordan was remarkable."

uhhhhhh, really? Is that why Kobe is unlike Jordan, because Jordan was "remarkable"?

I'm guessing Phil Jackson, as a coach, is also "remarkable".

Anyhow... this seems like one of the lamer things he's said... however maybe he's just burning all the ships and using the wood for one last push towards the 3Peat.

I'd just like to see the Lakers get this title, finish the 3Peat. Then the team will implode, with the two ownership factions openly warring, Phil Jackson not re-signing, etc. Phil Jackson will likely have a monster book and trash everybody, and Kobe will hopefully have a bizarro book as well.

But yeah he's clearly calling out Kobe, goading him to take it to the next level.

And for the record, Kobe has a better outside shot than Michael ever did; his long range game has been far superior, especially when compared at comparable years in their careers. Of course you've gotta give it to MJ with the crazy numbers, but Kobe's flashes of offensive firepower (see: 81 pts) have essentially no equal.

Albrecht Duerer
03-15-2011, 12:29 AM
"You can't compare Kobe to Jordan. Jordan was remarkable."

uhhhhhh, really? Is that why Kobe is unlike Jordan, because Jordan was "remarkable"?

I'm guessing Phil Jackson, as a coach, is also "remarkable".

Anyhow... this seems like one of the lamer things he's said... however maybe he's just burning all the ships and using the wood for one last push towards the 3Peat.

I'd just like to see the Lakers get this title, finish the 3Peat. Then the team will implode, with the two ownership factions openly warring, Phil Jackson not re-signing, etc. Phil Jackson will likely have a monster book and trash everybody, and Kobe will hopefully have a bizarro book as well.

But yeah he's clearly calling out Kobe, goading him to take it to the next level.

And for the record, Kobe has a better outside shot than Michael ever did; his long range game has been far superior, especially when compared at comparable years in their careers. Of course you've gotta give it to MJ with the crazy numbers, but Kobe's flashes of offensive firepower (see: 81 pts) have essentially no equal.

Of course, that was under the current rules, which is more than a coincidence.

Kobe being a shooter doesnt really matter, if its even true. Jordan was the better scorer. Jordan was better at attacking the basket. It doesnt matter if Kobe was better at 18 foot jumpers if Jordan didn't need to depend on them. But again, this is an area that the rule changes has made easier on perimeter players.

Chitownhero14
03-15-2011, 12:36 AM
Its motivation for Kobe, but its also Phil telling the truth, there will never be another Jordan, he is the greatest of all time and forever will be. To establish where players are you go:

Jordan



NBA GREATS - Kobe, Chamberlin, etc

NBA Superstars - Olajuwan, Pippen, Wade etc

NBa All-Stars - Kidd, Garnett, etc



Career NBA'ers - Juwan Howard, etc



Career Bench - Brian Scal, etc




Scrubs - One-Four year guys that never panned out, Adam Morrison, etc

There is no compairing to Jordan!

Anilyzer
03-15-2011, 12:41 AM
Of course, that was under the current rules, which is more than a coincidence.

Kobe being a shooter doesnt really matter, if its even true. Jordan was the better scorer. Jordan was better at attacking the basket. It doesnt matter if Kobe was better at 18 foot jumpers if Jordan didn't need to depend on them. But again, this is an area that the rule changes has made easier on perimeter players.

Oh, you mean this era of zone defenses?

Seriously, when I look back at some of those 90's games, it's like "why don't they defend anybody?"

LoL The other players move farther away from the hoop, and their defenders obediently follow. Then Jordan slashes to the lane.

It would be ridiculous how Kobe would exploit that. Or can you imagine Lebron or Wade? Just ridiculous.

AIRMAR72
03-15-2011, 12:57 AM
Kobe's athleticism when compared to Jordans is like Kobe's skillset and career when compared to Jordan's. AMAZING for anyone else, but second rate compared to MJ.
its amazing how some of these youngster get on this forum and type RUBBISH with confidence i can name 15 SG dating back from da 70s and Ive seen some these guys play in da flesh who skills were superior when compare to kobe... kobe is very good and durable player but he's not great when it comes down to pure skill if you PLAY BALL you would what im talkin about but i get the feeling the mass on here dont play at all just fans and viewers of da game

Jahari Kavi
03-15-2011, 01:09 AM
You can compare Kobe to MJ....I'm not one of those fans who places MJ on some untouchable ladder.......I'd still say MJ is better for reasons that have already been stated in this thread, but it's not like he's blowing him out the water like some people feel......

OaklandsFinest
03-15-2011, 01:21 AM
What does Kobe have what MJ didn't?

*****assness??

DODGERS&LAKERS
03-15-2011, 01:36 AM
Kobe is not as good as the greatest basketball player ever?!?!?! No way!

This also just in, DWade is not as good as Jordan either. Pau Gasol is not as good as Shaq, and Bynum is not as good as Wilt. What else does captain obvious have in store for us?

Law25
03-15-2011, 01:45 AM
Lets be honest. The difference and only difference between M.J and Kobe is one the league loved and one the league hates. All bias aside lets just be honest. I watch Jordans career and the calls he got were the same calls Lebron and Wade receive times two. You can say Kobe dosent drive the lane as much thats why thers an difference and youll be semi right. If Kob recieved the same treatment as the three i listed his feild goal percentage would go up and his turnover will be down. Yes i am an Kobe fan but like many i was first an M.J admirer and i see the difference in treatment like all non bias fans of the game do. The problem with Kob is he came in the league at the wrong time. Had he came in 2000 or so his career would have been more glorified than it is.

bringinwood
03-15-2011, 01:47 AM
You can compare Kobe to MJ....I'm not one of those fans who places MJ on some untouchable ladder.......I'd still say MJ is better for reasons that have already been stated in this thread, but it's not like he's blowing him out the water like some people feel......

Actually, Jordan blows Kobe out of the water in every single possible way a basketball player could blow someone out of the water...

There is not one significant statistical category, award, honor, or team that Kobe has excelled more, won more, achieved more, or propelled more than Jordan...

I challenge anyone to find one stat, honor, or award that Kobe has more of or did more with than Jordan...

Not only that, Jordan was surrounded with less talent... That also speaks volumes...

Law25
03-15-2011, 01:58 AM
Actually, Jordan blows Kobe out of the water in every single possible way a basketball player could blow someone out of the water...

There is not one significant statistical category, award, honor, or team that Kobe has excelled more, won more, achieved more, or propelled more than Jordan...

I challenge anyone to find one stat, honor, or award that Kobe has more of or did more with than Jordan...

Not only that, Jordan was surrounded with less talent... That also speaks volumes...

Jordan also played less talent IMO.

Hustlenomics
03-15-2011, 02:06 AM
Actually, Jordan blows Kobe out of the water in every single possible way a basketball player could blow someone out of the water...

There is not one significant statistical category, award, honor, or team that Kobe has excelled more, won more, achieved more, or propelled more than Jordan...

I challenge anyone to find one stat, honor, or award that Kobe has more of or did more with than Jordan...

Not only that, Jordan was surrounded with less talent... That also speaks volumes...
yep
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/2685/264khli.png

bootleg42
03-15-2011, 02:23 AM
"There's Michael Jordan and then there is the rest of us."

-Magic Johnson

^^^^Magic pretty much sums it up right there.

The young kids today who never saw Michael play don't know squat. Michael single handedly can say that he personally prevented a whole line of NBA hall of famers (Ewing, Malone, Stockton, Barkley, Reggie Miller, etc) from getting their rings. Most of the 90's players needed to wait till after Michael Jordan left to get a ring and in most cases, they were past their primes just hanging on with a team for the ring. During Kobe's era, most of the Hall of Famers got their rings.

Kobe is the player of this era, but he's no Michael Jordan.

bringinwood
03-15-2011, 02:35 AM
Jordan also played less talent IMO.

I really don't think so...

The center position was a lot more prevalent back then... Meaning half the teams had a quality 5... Today, you can count on one hand how many teams have a quality center...

As a result of their being a higher quality center, defenses were a lot tougher back then... For example, the bad boys and the vaunted NY defense back in the 90s among many more...


Not only that, some of the best teams to never win a title come right out of the Jordan era...

Jordan is responsible for every one of them...

He didn't play less talent... He rose above it more than anyone ever has...

Albrecht Duerer
03-15-2011, 02:38 AM
Oh, you mean this era of zone defenses?
Seriously, when I look back at some of those 90's games, it's like "why don't they defend anybody?"

LoL The other players move farther away from the hoop, and their defenders obediently follow. Then Jordan slashes to the lane.

It would be ridiculous how Kobe would exploit that. Or can you imagine Lebron or Wade? Just ridiculous.

Oh, please. GTFO of here with that nonsense.

You gotta love the 19 year old Kobe lovers. They'll say anything.

_KB24_
03-15-2011, 02:39 AM
I don't see the big deal. Phil has said it before, along with saying that one of the BIGGEST differences between the two was MJ's "mits" that he called hands. Phil on record has said that between the two, Kobe's offensive skill set was greater than MJ but MJ was the clear better all around player. Nothing wrong with that I suppose :cool:

Albrecht Duerer
03-15-2011, 02:42 AM
I don't see the big deal. Phil has said it before, along with saying that one of the BIGGEST differences between the two was MJ's "mits" that he called hands. Phil on record has said that between the two, Kobe's offensive skill set was greater than MJ but MJ was the clear better all around player. Nothing wrong with that I suppose :cool:

Thats not really what he said but whatever.

bringinwood
03-15-2011, 02:45 AM
I don't see the big deal. Phil has said it before, along with saying that one of the BIGGEST differences between the two was MJ's "mits" that he called hands. Phil on record has said that between the two, Kobe's offensive skill set was greater than MJ but MJ was the clear better all around player. Nothing wrong with that I suppose :cool:

If Phil ever said that, his family better have him committed...

Nothing about Kobe's game is comparable to Jordan... Let alone better...

Jordan is better in all facets...

It's like night and day...

The only people that see a reasonable comparison are from LA... Sometimes people look at how Kobe has fallen into 5 championships because he has the most talent surrounding him of any player in the history of basketball...


The only thing most people think of when they compare the two is how far Jordan is ahead of the rest of the field regardless of whether Kobe wins another 12 rings or doesn't win another one period...

buch88
03-15-2011, 03:05 AM
Um, we have already established this.

Yeah, we, people with brains, have established this. But most laker fans haven't. And that's why many laker fans don't have brains.

Law25
03-15-2011, 03:15 AM
I really don't think so...

The center position was a lot more prevalent back then... Meaning half the teams had a quality 5... Today, you can count on one hand how many teams have a quality center...

As a result of their being a higher quality center, defenses were a lot tougher back then... For example, the bad boys and the vaunted NY defense back in the 90s among many more...


Not only that, some of the best teams to never win a title come right out of the Jordan era...

Jordan is responsible for every one of them...

He didn't play less talent... He rose above it more than anyone ever has...

Granted, but Kobe played against better players at his position, didnt have an Pippen to take them out ther game while he attacks on offense until recent years. Im not sayin Kobe is better dont get me wrong but adding in the appropriate varibles you have to admit ther very comparable, such as Scouting, and the always disrespected zone D

_KB24_
03-15-2011, 03:19 AM
Thats not really what he said but whatever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_WNTx3gG_s

smiddy012
03-15-2011, 03:22 AM
Kobe and MJ are more comparable on a character perspective than anything, both are natural leaders, both are aggressive, hard-working, and got that rare killer mentality.

However if you think Kobe has near or better offensive skills than MJ you are delusional.

And if you think Kobe has near or better defensive skills than MJ you are also delusional.

Arch Stanton
03-15-2011, 03:26 AM
MJ is the GOAT. Maybe he could visit Rigley Field?

Jayb587
03-15-2011, 03:29 AM
Jordan is by far the nba's most popular player ever but that doesnt mean he does absolutely everything on the court better than anyone who ever played. The greatest player ever is debatable and not just with Kobe. If you dont see that than you are blinded by jordans popularity.

CowboysKB24
03-15-2011, 03:36 AM
Phil has commented on the Kobe/Jordan stuff before as well. He said Kobe could never do the things Jordan did, because Kobe's hands are tiny.

He has said things over the years pointing to this, but its nice for him to say it directly so his real opinion can't be mistaken anymore.

Phil would know the answer to this question better than anyone.

CowboysKB24
03-15-2011, 03:38 AM
WOW, and people think the heat players need the mic's taken away from them. Someone get this guy a nice tall glass of shut the **** up juice. Does this guy have like daily meetings with reporters to drop some statement that the media will run with???

Grab a tissue, stop crying. Hater.

Jayb587
03-15-2011, 03:39 AM
All those quotes in this thread are wrong. Phil didnt say half of this stuff LOL bunch of Kobe haters in here

CowboysKB24
03-15-2011, 03:42 AM
Kobe and MJ are more comparable on a character perspective than anything, both are natural leaders, both are aggressive, hard-working, and got that rare killer mentality.

However if you think Kobe has near or better offensive skills than MJ you are delusional.

And if you think Kobe has near or better defensive skills than MJ you are also delusional.

I agree with the bold.

I think Kobe has near the offensive skills as Jordan. Jordan is superior, but Kobe offensive skills are pretty remarkable. Kobe destroyed the league with 40-50-60 point games after Shaq left. My point is no one has done that in a long long time. Granted he had nothing to show for it, but Jordan had years where he played outstanding and nothing to show for it as well.

Jayb587
03-15-2011, 03:49 AM
I agree with the bold.

I think Kobe has near the offensive skills as Jordan. Jordan is superior, but Kobe offensive skills are pretty remarkable. Kobe destroyed the league with 40-50-60 point games after Shaq left. My point is no one has done that in a long long time. Granted he had nothing to show for it, but Jordan had years where he played outstanding and nothing to show for it as well.

Kobe's offensive skill is superior to anyone who ever played the game of basketball Jordan included. And if he played with no Zone defenses where he could shoot over just one person instead d 2-3 he would be even bettefr offensively

Bruno
03-15-2011, 03:57 AM
:laugh2: Phils the best.

Hawkeye15
03-15-2011, 08:44 AM
Yea thats true, but the majority of people who think Jordan is the GOAT have never really looked at his advanced stats...and by majority I mean in general...not people on this message board

agree. My friend Chad knows squat about advanced numbers, but there isn't a chance in hell you could convince him MJ isn't the GOAT.

Hawkeye15
03-15-2011, 08:45 AM
its amazing how some of these youngster get on this forum and type RUBBISH with confidence i can name 15 SG dating back from da 70s and Ive seen some these guys play in da flesh who skills were superior when compare to kobe... kobe is very good and durable player but he's not great when it comes down to pure skill if you PLAY BALL you would what im talkin about but i get the feeling the mass on here dont play at all just fans and viewers of da game

15? I have to see that list

Hawkeye15
03-15-2011, 08:46 AM
Yeah, we, people with brains, have established this. But most laker fans haven't. And that's why many laker fans don't have brains.

well, as you can see in this thread, 90% of Laker fans also agree Kobe is below MJ, and probably always will be

Hawkeye15
03-15-2011, 08:47 AM
Phil would know the answer to this question better than anyone.

yup

Byronicle
03-15-2011, 08:52 AM
I am glad Phil said this about his own player, I always hated when people tried to compare Kobe with MJ. Doesn't make sense to me back then and it still doesnt

jzero
03-15-2011, 09:13 AM
Kobe's offensive skill is superior to anyone who ever played the game of basketball Jordan included. And if he played with no Zone defenses where he could shoot over just one person instead d 2-3 he would be even bettefr offensively

wow i just...
wow
you have no knowledge of basketball
yo have literally picked up nba 2k11 and played a quick game with the lakers and thought WOW kobe can sure score when i call an iso every play

Albrecht Duerer
03-15-2011, 09:37 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_WNTx3gG_s

Yeah, the only thing he said is that Kobe might be a better outside shooter. He said without modification that Jordan is the best ever in the paint. He also emphasized that the difference between the two in FG% is huge. Nowhere in there is it stated that Kobe has the better offensive game. It's quite the opposite.

But another thing you should realize is that the rules changes of around 6 years ago were deliberately meant to give perimeter players space. So even Kobe's shooting needs to have that caveat.

Albrecht Duerer
03-15-2011, 09:43 AM
Jordan is by far the nba's most popular player ever but that doesnt mean he does absolutely everything on the court better than anyone who ever played. The greatest player ever is debatable and not just with Kobe. If you dont see that than you are blinded by jordans popularity.

This is pure nonsense. Its true that Jordan had tremendous hype. He revolutionized footwear. But the thing of it is, the reason Jordan is so wildly popular and is so much better than anyone else is that Jordan lived up to the hype and then some. Jordan's hype could have easily worked against him. If he had faltered under the hype, he wouldnt be seen this way. Jordan was statistically the greatest scorer playing in the toughest defensive era but in addition to that, he was the games all time best clutch player. The tougher the situation, the better Jordan was. He could and did seemingly will anything he wanted to happen. There has really never been anyone like Jordan in any American team sport. This is why he is on another level.

JasonJohnHorn
03-15-2011, 10:01 AM
Ahem! Jackson is right. Jordan: Better rebounder. Better play maker. Better clutch. Better defender. And better scorer. What else is there in the game?

RaiderLakersA's
03-15-2011, 12:47 PM
The only people that see a reasonable comparison are from LA... Sometimes people look at how Kobe has fallen into 5 championships because he has the most talent surrounding him of any player in the history of basketball...


I disagree there. The Showtime Lakers had more talent, even with an aging Kareem, than any of the Laker teams that Kobe played on, and I'm including the early years with Shaq. I would argue that some of those 80's Celtics were also much more talent-infused than the current era Lakers team.

Having said that, if the current Lakers squad somehow manages to figure it out all and starts dominating...not winning, but winning BIG...against the current field, then I might change my mind. And even then, Pau, Bynum, Artest, Odom -- some of those guys would have to go to the HOF before I'd say that they were even more talented than the Bulls of the '90s.

RaiderLakersA's
03-15-2011, 01:01 PM
Ahem! Jackson is right. Jordan: Better rebounder. Better play maker. Better clutch. Better defender. And better scorer. What else is there in the game?

We get it. Jordan is Odin. But hell, it didn't suck to be Thor (Kobe).

MickeyMgl
03-15-2011, 01:38 PM
It's very confusing that Jackson would suddenly say this, since he's been one of the most noteworthy people to participate in these comparisons for years. In fact, this contradicts some of the things he's said over the years, so that I actually wonder in what context this statement was made. He may reasonably conclude that Jordan is tops, but he's given plenty of fuel to the comparison over the years.

Also, FG% doesn't really say much. TS% tells more of the story.

Albrecht Duerer
03-15-2011, 01:44 PM
It's very confusing that Jackson would suddenly say this, since he's been one of the most noteworthy people to participate in these comparisons for years. In fact, this contradicts some of the things he's said over the years, so that I actually wonder in what context this statement was made. He may reasonably conclude that Jordan is tops, but he's given plenty of fuel to the comparison over the years.

Also, FG% doesn't really say much. TS% tells more of the story.

Dont you get it? This is what he felt the whole time. He's been in a position where he needed to be diplomatic but now he's toward the end of his time in LA, so he can dispense with the BS.

Jayb587
03-15-2011, 01:56 PM
This is pure nonsense. Its true that Jordan had tremendous hype. He revolutionized footwear. But the thing of it is, the reason Jordan is so wildly popular and is so much better than anyone else is that Jordan lived up to the hype and then some. Jordan's hype could have easily worked against him. If he had faltered under the hype, he wouldnt be seen this way. Jordan was statistically the greatest scorer playing in the toughest defensive era but in addition to that, he was the games all time best clutch player. The tougher the situation, the better Jordan was. He could and did seemingly will anything he wanted to happen. There has really never been anyone like Jordan in any American team sport. This is why he is on another level.

There is already reports done stating that defenses are tougher now than in any other era. and kobe has more game winners than jordan, actually kobe has the most game winners in nba history so i dont want to hear that. Kobe is on record saying that he is not worried about the man in front of him but worried about the help he is going to get once he beats that man. So its ridiculous to think that playing against the zone is easier than in Jordans era. dont discredit kobe. He will go down with the most points in nba history and you jordan lovers can take that to the bank

smith&wesson
03-15-2011, 01:56 PM
Kobe has a ways to go to pass Bird, Magic, Jabbar, and Russell dude. I don't know if Jabbar is possible, but if Kobe can win another MVP, and a finals MVP, and get a ring or two more, with current averages holding up over the next 2 seasons after this one, then we will have to revisit it.

if your going to base your opinion on achievments only then russle would have to go down as the greatest player of all time in your books. he has the most rings.

i would take kobe over bird and magic if they were all being drafted next year. . just my opinion man.

Storch
03-15-2011, 01:56 PM
MJ > Kobe

COOLbeans
03-15-2011, 01:56 PM
truth spoken by the zen

Jayb587
03-15-2011, 01:58 PM
wow i just...
wow
you have no knowledge of basketball
yo have literally picked up nba 2k11 and played a quick game with the lakers and thought WOW kobe can sure score when i call an iso every play

I have a vast knowledge of basketball. i dont let jordans popularity blind me to the fact that kobe can score with the best of them in any situation period.

redsox0717
03-15-2011, 02:00 PM
Why is it that whenever Phil states the obvious, it becomes a 15 page thread on PSD?

Albrecht Duerer
03-15-2011, 02:04 PM
There is already reports done stating that defenses are tougher now than in any other era. and kobe has more game winners than jordan, actually kobe has the most game winners in nba history so i dont want to hear that. Kobe is on record saying that he is not worried about the man in front of him but worried about the help he is going to get once he beats that man. So its ridiculous to think that playing against the zone is easier than in Jordans era. dont discredit kobe. He will go down with the most points in nba history and you jordan lovers can take that to the bank

What reports?

Here we go with the 19 year old Laker fan again. *rolls eyes*

ILMindState
03-15-2011, 02:05 PM
There is already reports done stating that defenses are tougher now than in any other era. and kobe has more game winners than jordan, actually kobe has the most game winners in nba history so i dont want to hear that. Kobe is on record saying that he is not worried about the man in front of him but worried about the help he is going to get once he beats that man. So its ridiculous to think that playing against the zone is easier than in Jordans era. dont discredit kobe. He will go down with the most points in nba history and you jordan lovers can take that to the bank

:laugh:

I feel sorry for you. You never got to watch the GOAT play in an exciting transcending era of basketball. Never got to see the NBA before it got soft. Never got to see tough team physical defense. That sucks

Albrecht Duerer
03-15-2011, 02:06 PM
if your going to base your opinion on achievments only then russle would have to go down as the greatest player of all time in your books. he has the most rings.

i would take kobe over bird and magic if they were all being drafted next year. . just my opinion man.

A portfolio of accomplishments doent only consist of rings. Russell on offense was a joke. People need to realize that.

Albrecht Duerer
03-15-2011, 02:07 PM
:laugh:

I feel sorry for you. You never got to watch the GOAT play in an exciting transcending era of basketball. Never got to see the NBA before it got soft. Never got to see tough team physical defense. That sucks

Oh, dont worry. There are reports that its not soft. Just trust him.

AIRMAR72
03-15-2011, 02:07 PM
I disagree there. The Showtime Lakers had more talent, even with an aging Kareem, than any of the Laker teams that Kobe played on, and I'm including the early years with Shaq. I would argue that some of those 80's Celtics were also much more talent-infused than the current era Lakers team.

Having said that, if the current Lakers squad somehow manages to figure it out all and starts dominating...not winning, but winning BIG...against the current field, then I might change my mind. And even then, Pau, Bynum, Artest, Odom -- some of those guys would have to go to the HOF before I'd say that they were even more talented than the Bulls of the '90s.
YOU must be youngster beside ervin and a aging kareem kobe laker are way more talented compare to ervin lakers kobe would tell you that

ILMindState
03-15-2011, 02:13 PM
Oh, dont worry. There are reports that its not soft. Just trust him.

Hahahah. He's gonna post a copy of his 8th grade book report from his reading class. Teach us all a lesson.

AIRMAR72
03-15-2011, 02:17 PM
Oh, dont worry. There are reports that its not soft. Just trust him.

ALBRECHT DUERER YOU DA MAN for typing da FACTS...i like that

AIRMAR72
03-15-2011, 02:23 PM
Kobe and MJ are more comparable on a character perspective than anything, both are natural leaders, both are aggressive, hard-working, and got that rare killer mentality.

However if you think Kobe has near or better offensive skills than MJ you are delusional.

And if you think Kobe has near or better defensive skills than MJ you are also delusional.
kobe is NO true just trying to be like mike copy every single movement and antics like jordan included his walk and voice(his early days)

AIRMAR72
03-15-2011, 02:33 PM
Kobe's offensive skill is superior to anyone who ever played the game of basketball Jordan included. And if he played with no Zone defenses where he could shoot over just one person instead d 2-3 he would be even bettefr offensively
tobe's offensive skill is superior to jordan.. sounds like a 80s CRACKhead baby comment kobe is not even better than PIPPEN and AT kobe age(and kobe is almost finish) jordan was still destroying da league along with PIP

lakeshow3peat
03-15-2011, 02:55 PM
No other player is close to MJ or will ever be but phil is right they both are two different players so u cant judge or compare the two . Thats like trying to compare Nate robinsion to shaq just doesnt make sense . Both are great players one might be greater than the other due of generation time . I grew up in the 90's so of course i like kobe but watching jordans past is just amazing to see the things he did in his career.

Jayb587
03-15-2011, 03:09 PM
[QUOTE=Albrecht Duerer;17122144]Oh, dont worry. There are reports that its not soft. Just trust him.[/QUOTE


http://www.basketball-drills-and-tips.com/kobe-bryant3.html
Why Kobe Bryant is better than Michael Jordan:

Reason 1: Better defense, better players, more competition, and better basketball overall.

Kobe plays in the modern defensive era of traps, doubles, and zone defenses. From the year 2001, the NBA effectively legalized zone defensive, thus discouraging 1-on-1 play. Compare this to Michael Jordan's weaker era, where had to luxury of playing "iso" all game long. Kobe cannot even post up without getting doubled.

Many people think zone's are weak defenses, that is because so many teams don't play it properly. While they may be weak against great passing teams with shooters, if played properly, zone defenses are great against dominant individuals (Kobe, Garnett, etc) that have a weak supporting cast. The whole world plays zone. Even in College basketball, the "purest" form of basketball, the teams play almost entirely zone defense. Around the world, other countries use zone all the time. And if you want to see its effectiveness, just look at the 2006 summer games.

Furthermore today's NBA is far more competitive. Not only does Kobe have to deal with zone, he goes up against taller, bigger and stronger defenders than Jordan ever did. Back in the 1980's most of the shooting guards Jordan played against were 6''2 to 6''4. Kobe can shoot over shorter players like that with unbelievable efficiency, yet he plays against players that are 6''5 to 6''9. In the 80s, outside of a few good teams (Lakers, Celtics, Pistons, Knicks) there was really not that much competition. Today, even the worst teams in the league (i.e bobcats, hawks) are good and can hold their own with any team they face.

Sure, the 80's was a more physical brand of basketball. But physicality, does not translate into effectiveness. If you ask any great scorer which is harder: 1) Playing with double and triple teams or 2) Having to deal with stiff-arms and armbars, they would chose the former. And furthermore, you think Kobe doesn't face armbars/stiff-arms? How can you guard Kobe without using your hands? It is impossible. With the rules the way they are, Kobe should be getting two free throws on almost every trip down.



Reason 2: Individual skill sets

Michael Jordan revolutionized the game of basketball and defined the future of the SG position. Then Kobe Bryant came along, and perfected this. When you compare their two skill sets, it goes like this:

Kobe Bryant: Better shooter, better ball-handler, better range, better play maker, better passer, better off-hand, better scorer, better killer instinct.

Michael Jordan: Smarter player, more efficient, more consistent defensively.

The both have the about equal footwork and "clutch" abilities.

In 2006, Phil Jackson said that "Kobe is better than Michael with the basketball." Even when Kobe was only 21 years old, Phil already said that Kobe is a better playmaker:

"I think it's the best that I've ever seen a player of mine play with an overall court game. I'm asking him to do so much, and he's accomplishing it. I never asked Michael to be a playmaker."

Link: http://espn.go.com/page2/s/...

So why is Michael Jordan revered while Kobe Bryant is not?

Michael Jordan had such a big impact on basketball financially and economically. In the early 80's, the league was in recession and basketball wasn't that big. When Michael Jordan came around, the league and its sponsors (Nike, Gatorade, etc), took a great player in Michael Jordan and turned him into an icon. Michael was a master of controlling his image, and appealing to the people. This is something Kobe has not managed to do. Jordan could do no wrong with fans, and possessed an almost saint-like status. It is this nostalgia and this image of Jordan that fans have come to love. This is why they cannot accept that Kobe Bryant is better than Michael Jordan. By better, I don't mean statistically. Jordan will always have better numbers, averages, and accolades than Kobe. Period. But skill-wise and ability-wise, Kobe has surpassed him in this tougher era of basketball.

SteveNash
03-15-2011, 03:28 PM
So Phil has already flip flopped on Kobe/Jordan so we won't count him.

Ex teammates of Jordan have said Kobe's better than Jordan.

John Wooden has said Kobe's the GOAT.

Jerry West said Kobe's the GOAT.

JordansBulls
03-15-2011, 03:36 PM
So Phil has already flip flopped on Kobe/Jordan so we won't count him.

Ex teammates of Jordan have said Kobe's better than Jordan.

John Wooden has said Kobe's the GOAT.

Jerry West said Kobe's the GOAT.

Magic Johnson said Jordan is the GOAT.

Bill Simmons also said it.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/1999/jordan_retires/news/1999/01/13/jordan_greatest/

NBA.COM - "By acclamation, Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time"

I've seen Wilt, Bill Russell, and Kareem play (albeit through ESPN Classic games). I've seen MJ play as well and I will have to say MJ is the greatest of all time. Some of MJ's peers on MJ:

Bill Russell

"I cannot imagine anyone playing any better."


Elgin Baylor

"Not only do I admire Jordan's accomplishments and his phenomenal basketball ability, but also the way he has conducted himself on and off the court. I don't think there will ever be another player to have the same impact on the game of basketball as Michael Jordan. If you look up the definition of greatness in the dictionary, it will say Michael Jordan."

Jerry West

"I have to think he's the greatest player ever. Not because of his ability to score, but because of his total game. To me he's the best offensive player and the best defensive player in the league for a number of years. To be the defensive player of the year with all the other things he had to do, to me, he's a marvel. He has separated himself from the rest of the good players as far as I'm concerned. He's the modern day Babe Ruth."


Lenny Wilkens

"He became the greatest. I won't say he was when he first started, but he developed into, I think, the greatest player who ever played basketball. I think he combined all of it, the athleticism with the skill. And every year he improved his skill. And also the mental toughness it takes to come out night in and night out and deliver your best performance. ... You know I've seen a lot of great players, but never one who could dominate a game like Michael could."

Bill Sharman

"Michael Jordan is the greatest all-around basketball performer of all time. ... I don't believe Michael was the greatest shooter or the greatest dribbler or passer or the greatest defensive player, etc. However, I believe he could do all these things better than anyone else who ever played in the NBA."


Isiah Thomas

"From all the players I have seen and played against, he's definitely the best player ever. A lot of people like to argue this guy was better or this guy was better. But every player you think of there was some weaknesses and deficiencies in their game. He has the complete package in all facets of his offensive game, and when you break him down defensively, he's also the best defensive player in the game. ... He should be remembered as the greatest of all time."


Dave Bing

"Michael is the most talented player I've ever seen. Wilt was the most dominating, but Michael has the most talent in every aspect of the game, even defense.

"He's the best ever because of his combination of skills, his competitiveness. Russell, Wilt, Kareem dominated because of their size, but they didn't have Michael's skills."


Larry Bird

"Is he the greatest? He's in the top two."


Bob Cousy

"He's by far the best since Naismith hung up the basket. He touches every base. He could play three, maybe four positions and maybe even center, too. He has no discernible weakness. The keys to basketball, despite the emphasis on big men, is still speed and quickness. He has them in abundance. When I jumped as high as I could, I got to the bottom of the net. When he jumps as high as he can, he's over the backboard. He's the best, without question."


Billy Cunningham

"I think he was the best ever. The whole package. He's scary sometimes with his defense. The passion he had amazes me. At a certain age, it's more difficult to get up for a game. A big game, sure, it's easy. But he did it for every game. How did he do it? To motivate himself at a level to perform. There's no burnout there. It's something within himself. If I had to play him, I'd pray a lot."


Patrick Ewing

"All I can speak for is people in my era, and from what I've seen, he's definitely the greatest. Unfortunately, I didn't have an opportunity to see Bill, Wilt or Oscar or some of the other guys. But based upon what I've seen, definitely.


Jerry Lucas

"He's been probably the most important player in the history of the game as far as its success, popularity and growth. Magic Johnson and Larry Bird provided a lift when the game needed it. Michael took it to another level and brought more and more fans.

"He's the greatest player who ever lived, a unique attraction. He's such a competitor. He forced the players around him to play at a higher level. He's a competitor. That describes a special player. When the sport loses him, it's like losing Babe Ruth in baseball. I've never seen a player who can do what he did."


George Mikan

"He's the one and only Michael Jordan. He does everything well. He's great offensively and defensively. What else would you want a guy to do? When you see a guy scoring 40 points every time ... and he plays more with his head today. He doesn't rely on instinct anymore. He's always in the right place."


Shaquille O'Neal

"Michael's definitely the best basketball player of all time. He's the greatest offensive weapon to ever play, and probably the best defensive player we've ever seen."


Here was a clip in 1993 where even Jerry West mentioned MJ was the best
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1mFE_ekV7E&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZquLVr3MeGk&feature=related
@ the 1:30 mark, Dick Stockton refers to Jerry West mentioning that MJ was the greatest ever period.

Pat Riley mentions that Jordan will always be considered the best
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0565oawy9Ak

7:55 mark Isiah Thomas debates on why MJ was the best over Wilt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP-Rm2atzU0

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2003-02-06-dupree-team_x.htm


Magic Johnson says there is no debate.
"Michael is the greatest player ever, and Bill Russell is the greatest winner ever and always will be.


To show the greatness of MJ he never has had a playoff series where he was outscored nor has he ever had a series where he averaged less than 26.6 ppg. Also MJ averaged over 31+ ppg in every playoffs after his rookie year (where he averaged 29.3 ppg in his rookie year)

Jordan's playoffs career average is: 33.4 PPG / 6.4 RPG / 5.7 APG / 2.1 SPG / 0.9 BPG / 49% FG / 28.59 PER (to put in retrospect Kobe has never even put those numbers up in any playoff year and Kobe's best PER in the playoffs was not as good as MJ's average)

Keep in mind that these numbers for Jordan include 4 past-prime postseasons (65+ games). Here are MJ's playoff averages upon retirement in 1993 (age 30), over the course of 111 playoff games:

34.8 pts/6.7 reb/6.7 ast/2.4 stl/1.1 blk/51.3% FG/29.7 PER

I mean, that's just insane. Basically 35/7/7/2+/1+/30 PER.

Swashcuff
03-15-2011, 03:37 PM
:horse:

By the time Kobe's career is done he will be in the discussion for GOAT...kinda like a nominee for the award along with magic, wilt, kareem, bird, and maybe russell...Assuming he can win another ring....although in my mind Jordan always have that title...

The funny thing though about Jordan is the more time that goes by the more he is widely considered that goat..I remember right after he retired many people I heard speak about it still thought Magic, Bird, or Kareem were the best... (Magic was the most common answer)... and these were people that had respectable opinions on the nba...

Kobe will def go down as one of the greats as of now and still could add plenty more to his legacy, but any1 reaching Jordans level...let alone passing it in my mind is almost impossible to imagine a player doing..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6og_pOVi2w

Magic and Isiah both said Jordan was the G.O.A.T. before he won his 3rd championship.

Many many many many other greats held that view at that same time.

Hawkeye15
03-15-2011, 03:40 PM
if your going to base your opinion on achievments only then russle would have to go down as the greatest player of all time in your books. he has the most rings.

i would take kobe over bird and magic if they were all being drafted next year. . just my opinion man.

no, MJ's individual achievements, coupled with team success, are unmatchable. Look waaaaaay back on page 2-3, and the dude who copied JB's normal rant spells it out for you

you are entitled to your opinion on the next paragraph. I have no beef with it. I would just prefer Bird and Magic

Hawkeye15
03-15-2011, 03:42 PM
I have a vast knowledge of basketball. i dont let jordans popularity blind me to the fact that kobe can score with the best of them in any situation period.

Kobe is elite at scoring, but there have been guys quite a bit better actually. Jordan is for sure one of them.

JordansBulls
03-15-2011, 03:42 PM
if your going to base your opinion on achievments only then russle would have to go down as the greatest player of all time in your books. he has the most rings.

i would take kobe over bird and magic if they were all being drafted next year. . just my opinion man.

Let's take Hockey for instance,

Henri Richard won 11 Stanley Cups as a member of the Montreal Canadiens between 1956 and 1973: 1955-56, 1956-57, 1957-58, 1958-59, 1959-60, 1964-65, 1965-66, 1967-68, 1968-69, 1970-71, 1972-73

His teammate Jean Beliveau has 17 Stanley Cup titles, but only 10 of them were earned as a player; the other 7 were as an executive.

However are either them considered the best because they won the most? Nope, Wayne Gretzky is even though he doesn't even have half the titles. But he is the best because he won and he has the accolades and stats.


Now look at Baseball

Yogi Berra has won the most World Series with 10, all with the New York Yankees and he has 3 MVP's.

But he isn't considered the best in that sport either but rather Babe Ruth is.


So the point is: The GOAT in every sport is someone who has won enough, but also has the stats and accolades behind them.

And this is the reason why you see that MJ for Basketball, Babe Ruth for Baseball and Wayne Gretzky for Hockey are the GOAT's for their sports as individuals.

Now if you want the GOAT for simply winning then in Basketball it would be Russell, in Baseball it would be Yogi Berra (10 world series titles) and in Hockey it would be Jean Beliveau (17 stanley cup titles, with 10 as a player)



Russell came in playing with the league mvp and only had to win 2 rounds to win it all. By comparison Russell won 27 playoff series in his career and where you can say he won as the best on his team while Jordan won 30 playoff series in his career all as the best on his team.

Not to mention the year Russell came is the same year Heinsohn came and guess what it was Heinsohn who won ROY over Russell. It was Heinsohn who made 2nd team all nba while Russell did not and it was Heinsohn who was the allstar as a rookie.

Rings just put you in the discussion for GOAT, but you need more than rings to be GOAT. In basketball IMO you need to be great on both ends, and just having rings in itself doesn't prove that.

Hawkeye15
03-15-2011, 03:45 PM
I honestly just feel like closing any Jordan thread after JB drops a bomb.

Swashcuff
03-15-2011, 03:48 PM
Magic Johnson said Jordan is the GOAT.

Bill Simmons also said it.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/1999/jordan_retires/news/1999/01/13/jordan_greatest/

NBA.COM - "By acclamation, Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time"

I've seen Wilt, Bill Russell, and Kareem play (albeit through ESPN Classic games). I've seen MJ play as well and I will have to say MJ is the greatest of all time. Some of MJ's peers on MJ:

Bill Russell

"I cannot imagine anyone playing any better."


Elgin Baylor

"Not only do I admire Jordan's accomplishments and his phenomenal basketball ability, but also the way he has conducted himself on and off the court. I don't think there will ever be another player to have the same impact on the game of basketball as Michael Jordan. If you look up the definition of greatness in the dictionary, it will say Michael Jordan."

Jerry West

"I have to think he's the greatest player ever. Not because of his ability to score, but because of his total game. To me he's the best offensive player and the best defensive player in the league for a number of years. To be the defensive player of the year with all the other things he had to do, to me, he's a marvel. He has separated himself from the rest of the good players as far as I'm concerned. He's the modern day Babe Ruth."


Lenny Wilkens

"He became the greatest. I won't say he was when he first started, but he developed into, I think, the greatest player who ever played basketball. I think he combined all of it, the athleticism with the skill. And every year he improved his skill. And also the mental toughness it takes to come out night in and night out and deliver your best performance. ... You know I've seen a lot of great players, but never one who could dominate a game like Michael could."

Bill Sharman

"Michael Jordan is the greatest all-around basketball performer of all time. ... I don't believe Michael was the greatest shooter or the greatest dribbler or passer or the greatest defensive player, etc. However, I believe he could do all these things better than anyone else who ever played in the NBA."


Isiah Thomas

"From all the players I have seen and played against, he's definitely the best player ever. A lot of people like to argue this guy was better or this guy was better. But every player you think of there was some weaknesses and deficiencies in their game. He has the complete package in all facets of his offensive game, and when you break him down defensively, he's also the best defensive player in the game. ... He should be remembered as the greatest of all time."


Dave Bing

"Michael is the most talented player I've ever seen. Wilt was the most dominating, but Michael has the most talent in every aspect of the game, even defense.

"He's the best ever because of his combination of skills, his competitiveness. Russell, Wilt, Kareem dominated because of their size, but they didn't have Michael's skills."


Larry Bird

"Is he the greatest? He's in the top two."


Bob Cousy

"He's by far the best since Naismith hung up the basket. He touches every base. He could play three, maybe four positions and maybe even center, too. He has no discernible weakness. The keys to basketball, despite the emphasis on big men, is still speed and quickness. He has them in abundance. When I jumped as high as I could, I got to the bottom of the net. When he jumps as high as he can, he's over the backboard. He's the best, without question."


Billy Cunningham

"I think he was the best ever. The whole package. He's scary sometimes with his defense. The passion he had amazes me. At a certain age, it's more difficult to get up for a game. A big game, sure, it's easy. But he did it for every game. How did he do it? To motivate himself at a level to perform. There's no burnout there. It's something within himself. If I had to play him, I'd pray a lot."


Patrick Ewing

"All I can speak for is people in my era, and from what I've seen, he's definitely the greatest. Unfortunately, I didn't have an opportunity to see Bill, Wilt or Oscar or some of the other guys. But based upon what I've seen, definitely.


Jerry Lucas

"He's been probably the most important player in the history of the game as far as its success, popularity and growth. Magic Johnson and Larry Bird provided a lift when the game needed it. Michael took it to another level and brought more and more fans.

"He's the greatest player who ever lived, a unique attraction. He's such a competitor. He forced the players around him to play at a higher level. He's a competitor. That describes a special player. When the sport loses him, it's like losing Babe Ruth in baseball. I've never seen a player who can do what he did."


George Mikan

"He's the one and only Michael Jordan. He does everything well. He's great offensively and defensively. What else would you want a guy to do? When you see a guy scoring 40 points every time ... and he plays more with his head today. He doesn't rely on instinct anymore. He's always in the right place."


Shaquille O'Neal

"Michael's definitely the best basketball player of all time. He's the greatest offensive weapon to ever play, and probably the best defensive player we've ever seen."


Here was a clip in 1993 where even Jerry West mentioned MJ was the best
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1mFE_ekV7E&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZquLVr3MeGk&feature=related
@ the 1:30 mark, Dick Stockton refers to Jerry West mentioning that MJ was the greatest ever period.

Pat Riley mentions that Jordan will always be considered the best
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0565oawy9Ak

7:55 mark Isiah Thomas debates on why MJ was the best over Wilt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP-Rm2atzU0

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2003-02-06-dupree-team_x.htm



To show the greatness of MJ he never has had a playoff series where he was outscored nor has he ever had a series where he averaged less than 26.6 ppg. Also MJ averaged over 31+ ppg in every playoffs after his rookie year (where he averaged 29.3 ppg in his rookie year)

Jordan's playoffs career average is: 33.4 PPG / 6.4 RPG / 5.7 APG / 2.1 SPG / 0.9 BPG / 49% FG / 28.59 PER (to put in retrospect Kobe has never even put those numbers up in any playoff year and Kobe's best PER in the playoffs was not as good as MJ's average)

Keep in mind that these numbers for Jordan include 4 past-prime postseasons (65+ games). Here are MJ's playoff averages upon retirement in 1993 (age 30), over the course of 111 playoff games:

34.8 pts/6.7 reb/6.7 ast/2.4 stl/1.1 blk/51.3% FG/29.7 PER

I mean, that's just insane. Basically 35/7/7/2+/1+/30 PER.

Thanks for stealing my thunder. I post one link you post like a bazillion. :cry:

DwayneMVPwade
03-15-2011, 03:50 PM
MJ is the best there ever was. I wouldnt consider Kobe even 2nd

SteveNash
03-15-2011, 03:51 PM
Magic Johnson said Jordan is the GOAT.

....

Please tell me you have all those quotes saved somewhere.

How outdated is some of that stuff? Like 1993, it's not really a flip flop if a superior player comes along after you make a statement.

Bruno
03-15-2011, 03:54 PM
15? I have to see that list

:laugh2:

ChicagoJ
03-15-2011, 03:55 PM
What people miss about great players is the intangibles. Anyone who watched a player such as pippen knows what he brought to the game and it doesn't all show up in the record books (like being able to guard 2+ players at the same time).

Perhaps, people should start looking at some of those intangibles that Kobe has in his game that are unique to himself as a player. I'm a huge Jordan fan and I watched the bulls go from barely making the playoffs to becoming the greatest team ever. But, I still think it's unfortunate that Kobe has to deal with the Jordan comparison. He has accomplished so much in the NBA he should be seen for that.

Hawkeye15
03-15-2011, 03:56 PM
:laugh2:

seriously. I mean, if I picked SKILL by SKILL, I am sure I could slap together 15 SG's who are better than Kobe total haha

Is Kobe the best shooter from the 45 degree angle on the left side three point line? NO!

That's one! Fourteen more to go!

Hawkeye15
03-15-2011, 03:58 PM
What people miss about great players is the intangibles. Anyone who watched a player such as pippen knows what he brought to the game and it doesn't all show up in the record books (like being able to guard 2+ players at the same time).

Perhaps, people should start looking at some of those intangibles that Kobe has in his game that are unique to himself as a player. I'm a huge Jordan fan and I watched the bulls go from barely making the playoffs to becoming the greatest team ever. But, I still think it's unfortunate that Kobe has to deal with the Jordan comparison. He has accomplished so much in the NBA he should be seen for that.

barely making the playoffs out east at that time, with nobody on your roster, wasn't the easiest thing to do my friend....

Giving Boston 63 points on their home floor, in their championship run season, with Orlando Woolridge and David Corzine as your next best options, wasn't the easiest thing to do my friend....

Swashcuff
03-15-2011, 03:59 PM
Please tell me you have all those quotes saved somewhere.

How outdated is some of that stuff? Like 1993, it's not really a flip flop if a superior player comes along after you make a statement.

That in all honesty proves MJ's greatness more than anything.

So many greats were saying that even before he won his 3rd title.

The case people try to make for Kobe is one of longevity and accomplishing more of time. Jordan was deemed the greatest before he even 3 peated.

Swashcuff
03-15-2011, 04:00 PM
seriously. I mean, if I picked SKILL by SKILL, I am sure I could slap together 15 SG's who are better than Kobe total haha

Is Kobe the best shooter from the 45 degree angle on the left side three point line? NO!

That's one! Fourteen more to go!

Is posterizing in game dunker in the history of the NBA? NO!

That's 2 bro keep going. Lol

Bruno
03-15-2011, 04:01 PM
If the Lakers beat the Bulls in '91, and Magic retired that following off-season, do you guy think that would change the way we view the GOAT discussion?

Bruno
03-15-2011, 04:04 PM
seriously. I mean, if I picked SKILL by SKILL, I am sure I could slap together 15 SG's who are better than Kobe total haha

Is Kobe the best shooter from the 45 degree angle on the left side three point line? NO!

That's one! Fourteen more to go!

:laugh2:

I guess its only natural for haters to down-play his greatness as much as homers exaggerate it. :shrug:

JordansBulls
03-15-2011, 04:08 PM
If the Lakers beat the Bulls in '91, and Magic retired that following off-season, do you guy think that would change the way we view the GOAT discussion?

It would have helped Magic for sure and hurt Jordan a bit. That would mean Jordan would have lost a series with HCA.

Vee-Rex
03-15-2011, 04:23 PM
Where are all the Kobe lovers that say Kobe is better than Jordan? If there's ANY man on this planet that would know, it would be Phil.

Wait until Phil retires and is no longer coaching Kobe. He'll REALLY let it rip then. He's Kobe's coach so he's not gonna go off on it but once Phil is gone he'll really let you know how Kobe is no Jordan.

Every time someone mentions Kobe being better than Jordan I'll point them straight to this thread and Phil's statements.

SteveNash
03-15-2011, 04:24 PM
If the Lakers beat the Bulls in '91, and Magic retired that following off-season, do you guy think that would change the way we view the GOAT discussion?

No.

Bruno
03-15-2011, 04:31 PM
It would have helped Magic for sure and hurt Jordan a bit. That would mean Jordan would have lost a series with HCA.

Right. I just think it's an interesting what if. MJ would still have had him in the majority counting/advanced stats. But Magic would have been able to have had a storybook ending, just like MJ did in '98, and he would have beat him in their only finals match-up. I just think the GOAT debate would be a lot more interesting it that had happened :laugh2:

Does Jordan play through '99 w/ the Bulls to tie Magic, until 2000 to pass him? Just an interesting what-if scenario.

Bruno
03-15-2011, 04:33 PM
I posted this in the last Jordan/Kobe thread, and this is what I tell my buddies and fellow Laker fans here on PSD:


The GOAT debate is pretty played out at this point. It's great media fodder, it sparks passion in the fans, but basketball is a team game. The GOAT debate/MVP debate, ect focus on the individual instead the group; you know, business as usual in America. MJ had the stats, accolades, longevity, legend, lore, the air-jordan brand (marketing), and was loved by the media. No other player has matched him in all of those aspects.

Laker fans of all people should appreciate the luxury of rooting for a winning franchise, generations of winning teams, and top notch team basketball. Kobe will go down as the greatest player of his generation, and possibly the greatest Laker of all-time. That should be good enough.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
03-15-2011, 04:45 PM
We all kno this.

Albrecht Duerer
03-15-2011, 05:17 PM
barely making the playoffs out east at that time, with nobody on your roster, wasn't the easiest thing to do my friend....

Giving Boston 63 points on their home floor, in their championship run season, with Orlando Woolridge and David Corzine as your next best options, wasn't the easiest thing to do my friend....

The year Jordan score 63 points was the year Jordan broke his foot early in the season and wasn't able to come back late in the season.

Hawkeye15
03-15-2011, 05:19 PM
The year Jordan score 63 points was the year Jordan broke his foot early in the season and wasn't able to come back late in the season.

oh I know. Obviously if he would have played the whole season, his team would have had quite a few more wins, and not faced Boston in round 1.

Hawkeye15
03-15-2011, 05:20 PM
after that 63 point game btw, Bird said something along the lines of: "He is god in basketball shoes"

Tony_Starks
03-15-2011, 05:36 PM
Funny how the Article posted in this thread decided to leave some of the quotes out.


Very funny indeed. But you know how the discredit game goes. Im still waiting to see the words "not in Michael Jordans company." I didn't know Kobe worked for Jordan?

Tony_Starks
03-15-2011, 05:49 PM
If the Lakers beat the Bulls in '91, and Magic retired that following off-season, do you guy think that would change the way we view the GOAT discussion?


Definitely. You have to beat the best to BE the best. Although at the time Magic was on the way down and Jordan was on the way up so that kinda skews it for me, he still beat basically the last team of the decade.

But still at the time their was the great Magic vs Michael debate and it seemed like it was no longer a question. Even though alotta fans, like myself, still view Magic as the greatest ever.... but thats another topic.

Albrecht Duerer
03-15-2011, 05:56 PM
Definitely. You have to beat the best to BE the best. Although at the time Magic was on the way down and Jordan was on the way up so that kinda skews it for me, he still beat basically the last team of the decade.

But still at the time their was the great Magic vs Michael debate and it seemed like it was no longer a question. Even though alotta fans, like myself, still view Magic as the greatest ever.... but thats another topic.

Actually, it's probably being fused into this topic.

lakers4sho
03-15-2011, 06:00 PM
after that 63 point game btw, Bird said something along the lines of: "He is god in basketball shoes"

I think he's God disguised as Michael Jordan.

leftymo
03-15-2011, 06:08 PM
Definitely. You have to beat the best to BE the best. Although at the time Magic was on the way down and Jordan was on the way up so that kinda skews it for me, he still beat basically the last team of the decade.

But still at the time their was the great Magic vs Michael debate and it seemed like it was no longer a question. Even though alotta fans, like myself, still view Magic as the greatest ever.... but thats another topic.

ditto. all five positions, 6'9" PG's are unheard of... but its another topic, this is between kobe (who I don't think will be the greatest laker) and MJ (who is easily the greatest athlete to play basketball)

leftymo
03-15-2011, 06:12 PM
Kobe & MJ are in different leagues. Different eras... Different accomplishments...

MJ was far better defensively, albeit, Pippen played the tougher player, and MJ guarded smaller guards for the most part.

MJ took more shots and shot with a higher FG%

Kobe scored 81 in a game, has far better range and diversity of his offensive game.

MJ is a better rebounder than Kobe.

MJ has a much better average and never lost in the finals. Kobe has been to more finals and won as a 21 year old, including taking over an OT game on the road in the finals without Shaq.(fouled out)

MJ didn't win without Pippen. Kobe didn't win without Shaq or Pau. Both needed capable teammates.

MJ didn't miss the playoffs, oh wait, maybe as a Wizard. not sure. Kobe did miss the playoffs.

Kobe is still in his prime, and has more work to do... MJ is done.

Bruno
03-15-2011, 06:44 PM
Definitely. You have to beat the best to BE the best. Although at the time Magic was on the way down and Jordan was on the way up so that kinda skews it for me, he still beat basically the last team of the decade.

But still at the time their was the great Magic vs Michael debate and it seemed like it was no longer a question. Even though alotta fans, like myself, still view Magic as the greatest ever.... but thats another topic.

I know a lot of older fans who still to this day think Magic is the GOAT, defending their opinion by arguing that he was the ultimate team player, in a team sport.

These older fans who I've talked to also believe that had Magic not gone down with HIV at 31, that Dr. Buss would brought in another all-star big for Magic to play with. They argue that Buss would have been convinced that the Lakers didn't have enough after the 4-1 loss, and would have spent the money ( as he always has over the past 30 years) to bring in a younger big for Magic to challenge MJ/Pippen with.

I dismiss the second part because it's a what if, but it's an interesting point non the less.

Bruno
03-15-2011, 06:48 PM
^ But I do think its funny how nobody talks about how Magic had to retire at 31/32. Jordan fans love to mention his '94-95 exodus, but nobody talks about how Magic retired in his early 30's. The dude still had plenty left in the tank.

Jewelz0376
03-15-2011, 06:55 PM
I know a lot of older fans who still to this day think Magic is the GOAT, defending their opinion by arguing that he was the ultimate team player, in a team sport.

These older fans who I've talked to also believe that had Magic not gone down with HIV at 31, that Dr. Buss would brought in another all-star big for Magic to play with. They argue that Buss would have been convinced that the Lakers didn't have enough after the 4-1 loss, and would have spent the money ( as he always has over the past 30 years) to bring in a younger big for Magic to challenge MJ/Pippen with.

I dismiss the second part because it's a what if, but it's an interesting point non the less.

I do as well..I know some that swear that Bird is the GOAT, etc...

I just hate the notion that Jordan is the undisputed GOAT, and that no other players should even be in discussion or that person is "wrong"....I feel like Jordan is the GOAT...but I respect the fact that players like Magic and Bird are considered my many as well...

Hawkeye15
03-15-2011, 07:04 PM
I know a lot of older fans who still to this day think Magic is the GOAT, defending their opinion by arguing that he was the ultimate team player, in a team sport.

These older fans who I've talked to also believe that had Magic not gone down with HIV at 31, that Dr. Buss would brought in another all-star big for Magic to play with. They argue that Buss would have been convinced that the Lakers didn't have enough after the 4-1 loss, and would have spent the money ( as he always has over the past 30 years) to bring in a younger big for Magic to challenge MJ/Pippen with.

I dismiss the second part because it's a what if, but it's an interesting point non the less.

my dad is one of the most knowledgeable fans I know, and he can't be convinced that anyone other than Bird, then Jabbar, go 1-2 haha

dodie53
03-15-2011, 07:05 PM
phil just motivating kobe.

Storch
03-15-2011, 07:17 PM
Kobe & MJ are in different leagues. Different eras... Different accomplishments...

MJ was far better defensively, albeit, Pippen played the tougher player, and MJ guarded smaller guards for the most part.

MJ took more shots and shot with a higher FG%

Kobe scored 81 in a game, has far better range and diversity of his offensive game.

MJ is a better rebounder than Kobe.

MJ has a much better average and never lost in the finals. Kobe has been to more finals and won as a 21 year old, including taking over an OT game on the road in the finals without Shaq.(fouled out)

MJ didn't win without Pippen. Kobe didn't win without Shaq or Pau. Both needed capable teammates.

MJ didn't miss the playoffs, oh wait, maybe as a Wizard. not sure. Kobe did miss the playoffs.

Kobe is still in his prime, and has more work to do... MJ is done.

Yup :clap:

Tony_Starks
03-15-2011, 07:50 PM
I do as well..I know some that swear that Bird is the GOAT, etc...

I just hate the notion that Jordan is the undisputed GOAT, and that no other players should even be in discussion or that person is "wrong"....I feel like Jordan is the GOAT...but I respect the fact that players like Magic and Bird are considered my many as well...


Thats because the general sports media for a long time was dominated by an east coast bias. It still is to some extent today but things are a little different with social networking and all that.

But yeah I always thought it was proposterous that Jordan was just the undisputed GOAT. For any accomplishment a Jordan fan can give me I can give him back one by Magic thats equally if not more impressive.

I'd start with nobody ever had and has never since played all 5 positions and put his team on his back as a rook to win a chip with their best player (at the time) out. Or that there had never been before and hasn't since been a 6'9 pg....

Albrecht Duerer
03-15-2011, 08:32 PM
It's Jordan and then everyone else. Deal with it.

netsgiantsyanks
03-15-2011, 08:51 PM
he really isnt. michael jordan is on a another level along with players like magic, kareem, bird, chamberlain, etc.

MickeyMgl
03-16-2011, 02:58 AM
Dont you get it? This is what he felt the whole time. He's been in a position where he needed to be diplomatic but now he's toward the end of his time in LA, so he can dispense with the BS.

Anybody who's been paying attention knows that Phil Jackson has NEVER been diplomatic regarding Bryant. He has said whatever he felt like all along.

cubswin25
03-16-2011, 04:03 AM
Phil is a very smart guy and 100 percent right. Kobe might be the closest thing to Jordan. But he's not even in Jordans league overall. One thing to keep in mind is you could get away with a lot more defensivly when Jordan played. You could hand check then and do other things that today are called fouls. So if you have Jordan/Kobe on a even playing field Jordan blows him away. Even with the rules much different when Jordan played he still is better. But if he played today in his prime he would be even better. When it comes down to it, there isn't anything Kobe could do better then Jordan. I don't care if the stats say Jordan was a 33 percent career 3 point shooter and Kobe was a 34 percent career 3 point shooter. I still think Jordan was a better 3 point shooter, especially if he tried to be. Remember the game has also changed there as well, the 3 point shot wasn't seen as a big deal when Jordan played. Now a days SG are suppose to shoot a lot of 3s but in the 80s and 90s that wasn't the case. Which is why Kobe has well over 2,000 3PA in his career, compared to Jordan. So if that was a shot that Jordan worked on and tried to shoot a lot and make. I'm willing to bet he does a much better job then Kobe has.

AIRMAR72
03-16-2011, 04:56 AM
WE NEED A TIME MACHINE for these youngster so they can have a clear understanding, you tube really dont show all the things ive seen jordan did during games i hated(in a friendly way) jordan back than because he was unreal.. he WAS NEVER tired he was super strong for his size quick and fast and dominant at both end of da court his hands were LIKE othis thrope(former rockets PF)hands, pippen have long fingers but JORDAN hand were wide and thick and long and strong he's the only player till this day who had da opposition cheer HIS moves and most guys really came to watch him instead of playing, jordan had too many natural physical gifts that is unmatch he simply da BEST AND IVE been WAITING SINCE 1992 FOR SOMEONE TO MATCH HIS SKILL and im still waiting even if jordan won no rings to me he would still the best ever to dribble a ball