PDA

View Full Version : Will LeBron not win MVP because he can't hit a game winning shot?



THE_G.O.A.T.
03-04-2011, 12:00 PM
Clearly LeBron is the best player in the NBA this season. But I'm wondering if the MVP voters will not vote for him because he can not hit a game winning shot? I think its happened three times in the last couple weeks. (Chicago, New York, and Orlando last night) Has his lack of clutch changed any of your MVP thoughts?

marlinsfan24
03-04-2011, 12:03 PM
Rose is my MVP. He has been since the Chicago-Heat game last week.

Swashcuff
03-04-2011, 12:03 PM
It will factor into the reasoning. He hasn't been as impressive in the clutch this season as he has been in the past.

nickdymez
03-04-2011, 12:03 PM
Clearly LeBron is the best player in the NBA this season. But I'm wondering if the MVP voters will not vote for him because he can not hit a game winning shot? I think its happened three times in the last couple weeks. (Chicago, New York, and Orlando last night) Has his lack of clutch changed any of your MVP thoughts?

Why is he "clearly" the best player in the league this year? And please dont answer with "are you serious?"

TopsyTurvy
03-04-2011, 12:04 PM
No, the only reason Lebron will not win another MVP trophy is because he already has one.

Cubs Win
03-04-2011, 12:09 PM
No, the only reason Lebron will not win another MVP trophy is because he already has won two in a row.

Fixed, but I don't think that's it. I think it will partially be because of the support he has in D-Wade on his team. And the media still probably sees Chris ***** as a great player as well. So while he may have the best numbers in the league, his team's record in comparison to what he has had around him don't compare to Derrick Rose. Or even Dwight Howard who has jumped into the number 2 spot IMO and will certainly make it a tough race for Rose.

THE_G.O.A.T.
03-04-2011, 12:12 PM
Why is he "clearly" the best player in the league this year? And please dont answer with "are you serious?"

Believe me, I'm a big Heat hater. But I don't think anyone can deny that LeBron is the most talented player in the NBA.

Pierzynski4Prez
03-04-2011, 12:13 PM
I think dwight has actually moved to the 1 spot, but can't argue against either way

nickdymez
03-04-2011, 12:15 PM
Believe me, I'm a big Heat hater. But I don't think anyone can deny that LeBron is the most talented player in the NBA.

really? Why? Why is Lebron James the most "Talented" player in the league?? I'd give you the most athletic, but please explain to me why he has more talent than any other player in the league

THE_G.O.A.T.
03-04-2011, 12:16 PM
really? Why? Why is Lebron James the most "Talented" player in the league?? I'd give you the most athletic, but please explain to me why he has more talent than any other player in the league

Who do you have as a more talented all around basketball player than LeBron?

sep11ie
03-04-2011, 12:19 PM
I see Lebron and Rondo in the same light. Their shooting is holding them back from being the best PG(for Rondo) and player(for LeBron) in the league.

nickdymez
03-04-2011, 12:20 PM
Who do you have as a more talented all around basketball player than LeBron?

wade
Durant
kobe
willams
paul


We are talking basketball talent right? Not physical abilities. Shaq was wayyyy more physically dominate than hakeem, but the dream was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more talented than shaq. I could have named a few more people who are more talented than Lebron, i just stopped there.

Mile High Champ
03-04-2011, 12:21 PM
I don't that will matter to be honest. Personally I think Lebron has dropped in the MVP race behind Rose and Howard. If Howard continues to get better and the Magic keep winning, Howard will be my choice for MVP. I am beyond impressed with the strides he has made in developing his offensive game.

sp1derm00
03-04-2011, 12:23 PM
Who do you have as a more talented all around basketball player than LeBron?

Kobe is more talented, but less gifted athletically than Lebron.

This is very much like the Shaq/Hakeem argument.

Shaq would be Bron, Hakeem would be Kobe. Shaq is more gifted physically, but not more talented. Hakeem had more talent, but was less physically imposing.

I would say Lebron is the most dominant player in the NBA today, but not the most talented.

justinnum1
03-04-2011, 12:23 PM
really? Why? Why is Lebron James the most "Talented" player in the league?? I'd give you the most athletic, but please explain to me why he has more talent than any other player in the league

:facepalm:

nickdymez
03-04-2011, 12:24 PM
Kobe is more talented, but less gifted athletically than Lebron.

This is very much like the Shaq/Hakeem argument.

Shaq would be Bron, Hakeem would be Kobe. Shaq is more gifted physically, but not more talented. Hakeem had more talent, but was less physically imposing.

I would say Lebron is the most dominant player in the NBA today, but not the most talented.

:clap:

THE_G.O.A.T.
03-04-2011, 12:26 PM
wade
Durant
kobe
willams
paul


We are talking basketball talent right? Not physical abilities. Shaq was wayyyy more physically dominate than hakeem, but the dream was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more talented than shaq. I could have named a few more people who are more talented than Lebron, i just stopped there.

That may be, but if you compare stats among the players on your board Lebron has them all beat. Look at this. http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-110301/nba-awards-watch

nickdymez
03-04-2011, 12:26 PM
:facepalm:

Really? A face palm? So you think Lebron is the most TALENTED player in the NBA? Fine, i think Kobe can start on any team at the power forward position. F' it, lets all be homers...

THE_G.O.A.T.
03-04-2011, 12:29 PM
Really? A face palm? So you think Lebron is the most TALENTED player in the NBA? Fine, i think Kobe can start on any team at the power forward position. F' it, lets all be homers...

If you had to choose between Kobe and LeBron right now, I don't think theres any way a GM would take Kobe over LeBron. And I'm not a homer, I'm a Bulls fan.

Flash3
03-04-2011, 12:29 PM
Really? A face palm? So you think Lebron is the most TALENTED player in the NBA? Fine, i think Kobe can start on any team at the power forward position. F' it, lets all be homers...

you think it's just his physical attributes ?

defense, ball handling skills are ****ing amazing for someone his size and, and passing ability.

only thing he has yet to work on is his post game.

Swashcuff
03-04-2011, 12:29 PM
I see Lebron and Rondo in the same light. Their shooting is holding them back from being the best PG(for Rondo) and player(for LeBron) in the league.

:laugh2:

LeBron has shot better than Melo this season what are you talking about?

He has not been clutch but as far as shooting the basketball goes he's above average in that regard.

Not great in the very least but solid.

http://www.hoopdata.com/shotstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=%25&yr=2011&gp=40&mins=30

There are the #s.

He has a very underrated shot.

Coincedentally both Rondo an LeBron has shot the ball better from 16-23 than Manu, Rudy Gay, Joe Johnson and Kobe Bryant.

nickdymez
03-04-2011, 12:30 PM
That may be, but if you compare stats among the players on your board Lebron has them all beat. Look at this. http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-110301/nba-awards-watch

Yea lebron stats are better than those guys. Lebron puts up numbers, ive always said that. But his numbers are empty to me. He cant close out games. He's just not a winner.. And honestly, if you watch his game on the court its easy to see why he puts up the numbers he does...

THE_G.O.A.T.
03-04-2011, 12:32 PM
Yea lebron stats are better than those guys. Lebron puts up numbers, ive always said that. But his numbers are empty to me. He cant close out games. He's just not a winner.. And honestly, if you watch his game on the court its easy to see why he puts up the numbers he does...

What does that even mean? They don't support your argument so you throw them out?

:facepalm:--you definitely get a facepalm!

redwhitenblue
03-04-2011, 12:33 PM
you think it's just his physical attributes ?

defense, ball handling skills are ****ing amazing for someone his size and, and passing ability.

only thing he has yet to work on is his post game.
And his late-game offense.

joeboow90
03-04-2011, 12:33 PM
if Lebron gets the MVP then its just a sham and they want him to have it. no matter how you look at it he is playing with another top 5 player in Wade and Bosh too. its like Amare and Melo now, neither will probably win an mvp becacuse they both bring so much to the same team. lebron is no doubt one of the 5 best players in the league but he should not be winning MVP this year. Dwight or Rose should be

nickdymez
03-04-2011, 12:33 PM
If you had to choose between Kobe and LeBron right now, I don't think theres any way a GM would take Kobe over LeBron. And I'm not a homer, I'm a Bulls fan.

lol.. yea because Kobe's almost 7 years older than Lebron. Kobe also has like 3000 more games played than Lebron. (Obviously exaggerating that number). But please lets not mention Kobe and Lebron in the same sentence. They are not even in the same league imo.

ManRam
03-04-2011, 12:33 PM
I think so.

I think there's also a reason why they've had to take so many this year, and that's the bigger issue: they can't close out games, and that falls on him. The last few years he'd take over in the 4th well before a game winning/tying shot was needed. This year, that isn't happening.

Whoever said his numbers are empty...well, LOL. 97% of the league hasn't attempted a game winning or game tying shot...are their numbers empty too? He still has more of an impact on a game than anyone else (maybe besides Dwight), but he's not living up to HIS standards.

Everyone knows I'm more of a LeBron supporter than I am a basher, but I can't imagine a scenario where he wins the award and I think he deserves it. Right now, Dwight, Dirk and Rose all deserve it more.

Bookey
03-04-2011, 12:33 PM
He is just a stat padder

Swashcuff
03-04-2011, 12:35 PM
Yea lebron stats are better than those guys. Lebron puts up numbers, ive always said that. But his numbers are empty to me. He cant close out games. He's just not a winner.. And honestly, if you watch his game on the court its easy to see why he puts up the numbers he does...

http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM
http://www.82games.com/CSORT11.HTM

http://www.82games.com/1011/10MIA8.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1011/10LAL5.HTM

Take a brief look and compare their Clutch statistics. Especially their +/- numbers. But guess what everyone knows Kobe is a great closer. How is LeBron not a good closer when he's comparable to Kobe in that regard?

Flojo
03-04-2011, 12:35 PM
If you had to choose between Kobe and LeBron right now, I don't think theres any way a GM would take Kobe over LeBron. And I'm not a homer, I'm a Bulls fan.

I'm pretty sure he's arguing that despite the fact that Kobe has more skill than Lebron, right now Lebron is definitely the better player. This is the exact same argument which I had with a friend last season. I'd agree with the idea that Kobe has more skill (or talent) than Lebron, but Lebron is much more physically imposing, both offensively and defensively. If you choose one to build on now, the obvious choice is Lebron.

nickdymez
03-04-2011, 12:36 PM
What does that even mean? They don't support your argument so you throw them out?

:facepalm:--you definitely get a facepalm!

His numbers are empty to me because, imo, anyone who puts those types of numbers up and cant win a chip has a problem. He is one dimensional offensively and thats why late in games he cant get the job done... :clap:

Swashcuff
03-04-2011, 12:36 PM
And his late-game offense.

Prior to this season he has never had a problem with that. He has always been one of the best in the NBA.

Flash3
03-04-2011, 12:37 PM
lol.. yea because Kobe's almost 7 years older than Lebron. Kobe also has like 3000 more games played than Lebron. (Obviously exaggerating that number). But please lets not mention Kobe and Lebron in the same sentence. They are not even in the same league imo.

you hate lebron cause you cant face the fact kobe's light is fading maybe not this year but he will soon face a heavy decline and by that time cleveland spanking the lakers wont be a surprise to anyone.

nickdymez
03-04-2011, 12:43 PM
you hate lebron cause you cant face the fact kobe's light is fading maybe not this year but he will soon face a heavy decline and by that time cleveland spanking the lakers wont be a surprise to anyone.

unlike you ridiculous Lebron james fans, us LAKERS fans understand that Kobe is human. Ive enjoyed 5 championships thanks to Kobe. Ive seen my team in the finals 7 times thanks to Kobe. Ive seen some of the greatest performances in the history of this sport thanks to Kobe. So if Kobe's light "fades" as you say, then so be it. You worry about getting a light cocky and arrogant Heat fan. All i see from heat fans is future predictions and it makes you guys cocky and unbearable. You talk like your elite but yet your team has proved NOTHING. Your stars dont look so good when it counts. Ive seen a lot of highlight plays from Miami though.. I'll give you that...

raidersrock99
03-04-2011, 12:49 PM
Believe me, I'm a big Heat hater. But I don't think anyone can deny that LeBron is the most talented player in the NBA.

you dont get an mvp for being most talented.you get an mvp for being most productive.

allSUAVE
03-04-2011, 12:50 PM
I Still say Lebrons MVP ..aleast he's not shying away from the last shot like Dwade and Bosh was

raidersrock99
03-04-2011, 12:51 PM
and i still take kobe over lebron.

lebron has exactly 0 championships and will not get one this year.

raidersrock99
03-04-2011, 12:51 PM
I Still say Lebrons MVP ..aleast he's not shying away from the last shot like Dwade and Bosh was

bosh actually took a three with 6 seconds left.

Flash3
03-04-2011, 12:54 PM
unlike you ridiculous Lebron james fans, us LAKERS fans understand that Kobe is human. Ive enjoyed 5 championships thanks to Kobe. Ive seen my team in the finals 7 times thanks to Kobe. Ive seen some of the greatest performances in the history of this sport thanks to Kobe. So if Kobe's light "fades" as you say, then so be it. You worry about getting a light cocky and arrogant Heat fan. All i see from heat fans is future predictions and it makes you guys cocky and unbearable. You talk like your elite but yet your team has proved NOTHING. Your stars dont look so good when it counts. Ive seen a lot of highlight plays from Miami though.. I'll give you that...

i dont care i know its a process ... this is an experiment worth taking.

nickdymez
03-04-2011, 12:54 PM
bosh actually took a three with 6 seconds left.

I couldnt believe that **** either

allSUAVE
03-04-2011, 12:54 PM
bosh actually took a three with 6 seconds left.

That's why I Said bosh "was" but thats just last night Lebron bin in the hot seat all the time ..it should be Wade taking the last shot

THE_G.O.A.T.
03-04-2011, 12:54 PM
you dont get an mvp for being most talented.you get an mvp for being most productive.

Actually there is no set guidelines for voters to use when voting. The NBA does not define what "most valuable" means. So it is inaccurate to say that mvp means most productive. If that was the case there would be no need to vote, you could just go by who has the best stats.

danniboi168
03-04-2011, 12:55 PM
dampier was clutch.

nickdymez
03-04-2011, 12:55 PM
i dont care i know its a process ... this is an experiment worth taking.

well good luck with that buddy... Meanwhile we are over here in LA hoisting up banners and having parades

Flash3
03-04-2011, 12:58 PM
well good luck with that buddy... Meanwhile we are over here in LA getting spanked by Cleveland

fixed

nickdymez
03-04-2011, 12:58 PM
That's why I Said bosh "was" but thats just last night Lebron bin in the hot seat all the time ..it should be Wade taking the last shot

First of all, Bosh should not have even been on the floor if he was gonna play that high. I thought jones should have been in..... But anyway, there were like 5 people at my house watching the game and we all pretty much said in unison that wade would def get the last shot. Im thinking there is gonna be some sort of tension soon if wade dont start taking these...

The Jokemaker
03-04-2011, 01:12 PM
Lebron should not be the MVP because he is not the most valuable player in the league or even on his own team. It should be Rose or Howard, maybe even Durant or Kobe.

Da Knicks
03-04-2011, 01:18 PM
I dont like lebron being a knick fan but make no mistake the guy is the best player in the league. Now if Melo develops a more defensive game i dont know...

danniboi168
03-04-2011, 01:26 PM
hate lebron, but he is dam good.

Swashcuff
03-04-2011, 01:26 PM
Why don't poster's reply to facts when discussion LeBron James.

Everyone gives an opinion that LeBron is not good in the clutch but the FACTS state otherwise. Everyone gives opinion that LeBron is a horrible jump shooter but the FACTS state otherwise. He has had a tough run this season in the clutch there is not denying that but he still isn't horrendous in that department. Because a guy misses 3 game winning/tying 3 pointers at the buzzer doesn't mean he's not clutch. If that was the case if that were the case then NO ONE in the NBA is clutch. It's just magnified because its LeBron James who took the shots.

RZZZA
03-04-2011, 01:30 PM
Lebron and the Heat are just not beating the good teams, based on that, I think he has dropped somewhat out of contention for MVP. He was always a long shot any way, being on a team with Wade and not dealing with any serious injuries all year on that team.

Swashcuff
03-04-2011, 01:31 PM
Lebron and the Heat are just not beating the good teams, based on that, I think he has dropped somewhat out of contention for MVP. He was always a long shot any way, being on a team with Wade and not dealing with any serious injuries all year on that team.

:nod:

ghettosean
03-04-2011, 01:38 PM
If Lebron wins MVP over Rose I'll be shocked... Rose deserves it for sure!

nycsports2
03-04-2011, 01:44 PM
i like d12 for mvp right now

Tony_Starks
03-04-2011, 01:55 PM
Im just curious but last year Kobe knocked down a handful of game winners and pretty much everybody said "so what." They even went out of their way with obscure stats and tomfoolery to say that he's not even clutch.

Now this year Lebron has been in the same situation, to make the game winner, and thus far can't do it. But he gets a pass?

So basically Kobe can knock game winners, Lebron can miss them, and it doesn't even matter Lebron is still better no matter what. Thats how it works?

ManRam
03-04-2011, 01:55 PM
This thread has been a bit off-topic at times, and when it's on topic, it's discussing something that we already have a stickied thread for...

All MVP talk can go here:

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=593882&page=8

Hawkize31
03-04-2011, 01:55 PM
and i still take kobe over lebron.

lebron has exactly 0 championships and will not get one this year.

Again, a Kobe fan proves ignorance by claiming one individual player wins a championship. Kobe has not won any NBA championships. The Lakers with Kobe Bryant have won 5 while hes been there. Quite the difference.