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spurs4#5
03-02-2011, 04:55 PM
what non us born players would you put into the hall of fame?

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 05:00 PM
Players who played the last decade or who came into the league in the last decade?

If we are talking about who has played Dirk, Pau, and Parker are all going to be HOFers. I know there are those who are going to debate Parker but he does deserve to be in the BASKETBALL HOF IMO. Dirk and Pau are locks in all honesty.

samevans7
03-02-2011, 05:05 PM
why delegate just europeans? how bout all non-US born Americans?

Dirk and Nash (he's canadien) are in easily

spurs4#5
03-02-2011, 05:22 PM
ok changed to non us born players....actually steve nash was born in south africa

SteveNash
03-02-2011, 07:24 PM
Dikembe

ManRam
03-02-2011, 07:48 PM
Dirk and Nash are locks, and I think Pau will make it.

No to Mutombo, Parker, Yao, Manu etc.

kobe24>lebron23
03-02-2011, 08:08 PM
dirk,nash,gasol

BostonBro9
03-02-2011, 08:19 PM
Please don't let that Spanish greasy headed F*&# into the HOF... he is so Weak and ugly and Stupid.



EDIT: On a serious (Kind of) note.. he hasnt scored more then 18 PPG or 9 RPG... if that is what the threshold is to make it into the HOF..there should be more Big men in Springfield.


He sucks.

Spurred1
03-02-2011, 08:28 PM
Why not Manu? He's got a gold medal, has won multiple championships, and is an incredible player. Is it because he isn't the franchise guy?

This question's mainly for ManRam.

Meatmypet
03-02-2011, 08:35 PM
Please don't let that Spanish greasy headed F*&# into the HOF... he is so Weak and ugly and Stupid.



EDIT: On a serious (Kind of) note.. he hasnt scored more then 18 PPG or 9 RPG... if that is what the threshold is to make it into the HOF..there should be more Big men in Springfield.


He sucks.

Walt Frazier also averaged 19 and 6 and has been Hall of Fame bound.

With your logic, Biggie Smalls shouldn't be noted as "the best rapper" or even close to be recognized as "one of the best" because he's fat, black and "ugly and stupid."

Ironic, huh?

BostonBro9
03-02-2011, 08:41 PM
Walt Frazier also averaged 19 and 6 and has been Hall of Fame bound.

With your logic, Biggie Smalls shouldn't be noted as "the best rapper" or even close to be recognized as "one of the best" because he's fat, black and "ugly and stupid."

Ironic, huh?


Lol.

Walt frazier had 6 seasons with 20 PPG or more.. was one of the best players in Knicks history... had a bunch of 40 + point games.. and had amazing playoff Numbers.. For One... SO your an idiot.


And Just because I have a picture of Biggie doesn't mean I think he's the best rapper.. that is just a great picture... And although he is ugly.. he could get any lady he wanted.. and Pau Gasol can only get Cheap Transvestite hookers..

Lil Wayne, Jay-Z, Tupac, and Eminem are Equal to or Better then Biggie if you were wondering my thought.

<3

Chacarron
03-02-2011, 08:43 PM
Manu, Gasol, Dirk and Nash.

Khalifa21
03-02-2011, 09:00 PM
Dirk, Nash are locks.

Gasol, Manu and Parker are strong possibilities.

If Duncan is counted as being born outside the US (Virgin Islands) then of course he's a lock.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
03-02-2011, 09:54 PM
Dirk and Nash will make it. Pau, Manu and Parker have little work to do to make it in.

rhino17
03-02-2011, 09:57 PM
Dirk, Nash, Yao, Mutombo, Manu I think will all get in for sure

Maybe Pau and Parker

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 10:01 PM
Dirk, Nash, Yao, Mutombo, Manu I think will all get in for sure

Maybe Pau and Parker

How is Yao and Manu sure things and Pau a maybe?

Yao isn't getting into the HOF dude.

rhino17
03-02-2011, 10:05 PM
How is Yao and Manu sure things and Pau a maybe?

Yao isn't getting into the HOF dude.

What has Pau done more than the other 2?

For one, Yao will get in regardless of his talent because he was the first Chinese talent to succeed in the NBA

Secondly, Yao was the best center of his generation (05-09) and that gets you in the hall

Manu has 3 rings and led his national team to a ton of success

PrettyBoyJ
03-02-2011, 10:14 PM
Dirk, Nash, Pau, Parker, Manu

Lakersfan2483
03-02-2011, 10:20 PM
Dirk Nowitzki , Manu Ginobli, Pau Gasol, Dikembe Mutombo, Steve Nash and Yao Ming.

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 10:27 PM
What has Pau done more than the other 2?

For one, Yao will get in regardless of his talent because he was the first Chinese talent to succeed in the NBA

Secondly, Yao was the best center of his generation (05-09) and that gets you in the hall

Manu has 3 rings and led his national team to a ton of success

Yao was the best C of his what? :speechless:

A 5 year span does not get you into the HOF ESPECIALLY when considering you made it past the first round 1 time.

I have no problem with Manu I completely agree that he should be in but he and Pau both have similar international accomplishments. This coupled with their NBA success has them as certain locks.

Lets not even start to compare their international accomplishments because Pau literally takes a royal dump on Yao in that department.

Not to mention that he has been a very important part of a multiple championship winning team.

rhino17
03-02-2011, 10:43 PM
Yao was the best C of his what? :speechless:

A 5 year span does not get you into the HOF ESPECIALLY when considering you made it past the first round 1 time.

I have no problem with Manu I completely agree that he should be in but he and Pau both have similar international accomplishments. This coupled with their NBA success has them as certain locks.

Lets not even start to compare their international accomplishments because Pau literally takes a royal dump on Yao in that department.

Not to mention that he has been a very important part of a multiple championship winning team.

Pau and Manu do not have similar international accomplishments, Manu has far more

And Pau won how many playoff games before hopping on the Kobe train?

Pau has been a secondary player on an extremely talented championship team, with Kobe Bryant as a teammate. While Yao has been on very untalented teams throughout his career and was still the most dominant center in the NBA when he played for half a decade. Regardless of these accomplishments, the HOF is an individual honor and Yao was the superior player and it was not even close

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 10:58 PM
Pau and Manu do not have similar international accomplishments, Manu has far more

And Pau won how many playoff games before hopping on the Kobe train?

Pau has been a secondary player on an extremely talented championship team, with Kobe Bryant as a teammate. While Yao has been on very untalented teams throughout his career and was still the most dominant center in the NBA when he played for half a decade. Regardless of these accomplishments, the HOF is an individual honor and Yao was the superior player and it was not even close

I honestly refuse to believe that you are trying to be serious right now. You got to be kidding me.

Exactly how many championships would Manu have without Duncan?

Yao was on untalented teams :laugh::laugh:

Give Dwight or Shaq that kind of talent and their respective teams would be championship contenders.

Just as a note Pau's international achievements.

# 2006 FIBA World Championship MVP
# 2009 EuroBasket MVP
# 2001 Spanish King's Cup MVP
# 2001 Spanish League Finals MVP
# 2001 All-Euroleague Second Team
# 2× FIBA Europe Player of the Year (2008–2009)
# 2× Mister Europa Player of the Year (2004, 2009)
# 3× Euroscar Player of the Year (2008–2010)

now vs Manu's

# 2001 Lega A (Italy) MVP
# 2001 Euroleague Final Four MVP
# 2001 FIBA Americas Championship MVP
# 2002 All-Euroleague First Team
# 2002 Italian Cup MVP
# 2002 Lega A MVP
# 2002 FIBA World Championship All-Tournament Team
# Olimpia de Oro (2003, 2004 (shared))
# 2006 FIBA World Championship All-Tournament Team
# 2008 35 Greatest Euroleague Players

Now tell me who's weigh heavier?

Oh and a side note lets just illustrate Yao's

# 2002 FIBA World Championship All-Tournament Team
# 3× FIBA Asian Championship MVP (2001, 2003, 2005)

Now as I end my argument here I shall say this

As far as basketball reference's HOF Probability goes among current NBA players

8. Dirk Nowitzki 0.9532
15.Pau Gasol 0.6000
17.Tony Parker 0.5651
23.Yao Ming 0.3071
26. Manu Ginóbili 0.1340

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob_active.html

below is the link to the explanation of their method

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/hof_prob.html

Also your point of Yao being the most dominant C for half a decade may be the WORST point you could bring in the entire argument. Who has Yao dominated? How far has his "dominance" taken him into the playoffs? Isn't this arguably the worst crop of quality Cs we've witnessed in NBA history? To be the best among that isn't that great of an accomplishment.

Finally it can be argued that Shaq and D. Howard at various times in this half decade have been better than Yao Ming.

Anything else?

Chacarron
03-02-2011, 11:06 PM
Can't believe some of you who say Pau isn't Hall of Fame worthy. He would probably top the list of non USA-born players. He has accomplished more internationally and in the NBA than any other player in the NBA. Swashcuff has backed it up with tons of facts.

rhino17
03-02-2011, 11:12 PM
I honestly refuse to believe that you are trying to be serious right now. You got to be kidding me.

Exactly how many championships would Manu have without Duncan?


Comparing Duncan to Kobe is beyond absurd, and again, Pau had accomplished absolutely nothing in his career until teaming up with Kobe




Yao was on untalented teams :laugh::laugh:
Give Dwight or Shaq that kind of talent and their respective teams would be championship contenders.

You are clearly unfamiliar with the term "talent" at the NBA level



# 2006 FIBA World Championship MVP
# 2009 EuroBasket MVP
# 2001 Spanish King's Cup MVP
# 2001 Spanish League Finals MVP
# 2001 All-Euroleague Second Team
# 2× FIBA Europe Player of the Year (2008–2009)
# 2× Mister Europa Player of the Year (2004, 2009)
# 3× Euroscar Player of the Year (2008–2010)

now vs Manu's

# 2001 Lega A (Italy) MVP
# 2001 Euroleague Final Four MVP
# 2001 FIBA Americas Championship MVP
# 2002 All-Euroleague First Team
# 2002 Italian Cup MVP
# 2002 Lega A MVP
# 2002 FIBA World Championship All-Tournament Team
# Olimpia de Oro (2003, 2004 (shared))
# 2006 FIBA World Championship All-Tournament Team
# 2008 35 Greatest Euroleague Players
I said national team accomplishments, go back and learn to read






Now as I end my argument here I shall say this

As far as basketball reference's HOF Probability goes among current NBA players

8. Dirk Nowitzki 0.9532
15.Pau Gasol 0.6000
17.Tony Parker 0.5651
23.Yao Ming 0.3071
26. Manu Ginóbili 0.1340

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob_active.html

below is the link to the explanation of their method

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/hof_prob.html
garbage, a formula cannot be used to calculate HOF worthiness, especially one that takes height into consideration




Also your point of Yao being the most dominant C for half a decade may be the WORST point you could bring in the entire argument. Who has Yao dominated? How far has his "dominance" taken him into the playoffs? Isn't this arguably the worst crop of quality Cs we've witnessed in NBA history? To be the best among that isn't that great of an accomplishment.

Finally it can be argued that Shaq and D. Howard at various times in this half decade have been better than Yao Ming.



It doesn't matter who he dominated, he was the best center in the NBA during his prime, he cannot help that he played against inferior competition

And no, any rational person could not consider Shaq or especially Dwight better during that period, you clearly never watched Yao and Dwight face each other


And once again, which you did not address, the HOF is an individual accomplishment and Yao was a much better player than Pau


Can't believe some of you who say Pau isn't Hall of Fame worthy. He would probably top the list of non USA-born players. He has accomplished more internationally and in the NBA than any other player in the NBA. Swashcuff has backed it up with tons of facts.

No one said he didnt deserve it, I said he might, but no way he deserves it over Yao

Chacarron
03-02-2011, 11:19 PM
Gasol does deserve it over Yao.

rhino17
03-02-2011, 11:22 PM
Gasol does deserve it over Yao.

care to explain?

HOF is an individual award and Yao was the better player, by a long shot


And again, like I said earlier, regardless of what you think of him, he is the first asian sports global superstar, that alone will get him in

Chacarron
03-02-2011, 11:28 PM
care to explain?

HOF is an individual award and Yao was the better player, by a long shot


And again, like I said earlier, regardless of what you think of him, he is the first asian sports global superstar, that alone will get him in

The fact that the Hall of Fame takes in consideration international achievements as well as collegiate and NBA achievements. Gasol has a lot more in his basketball resume than Yao in their respective careers.

sunnydayin'zona
03-02-2011, 11:32 PM
Walt Frazier also averaged 19 and 6 and has been Hall of Fame bound.

With your logic, Biggie Smalls shouldn't be noted as "the best rapper" or even close to be recognized as "one of the best" because he's fat, black and "ugly and stupid."

Ironic, huh?

Don't use words when you don't know what they mean.

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 11:39 PM
Comparing Duncan to Kobe is beyond absurd, and again, Pau had accomplished absolutely nothing in his career until teaming up with Kobe

Comparing Kobe to Tim Duncan is beyond absurd? They are both arguably top 10 players in the history of the game and Tim Duncan is viewed by most as the great PF to ever play the game how is that absurd? A lot are of the view that TD is indeed better than Kobe Bryant.


You are clearly unfamiliar with the term "talent" at the NBA level

The Houston Rockets teams of those years that you mentioned

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2009.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2008.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2007.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2006.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2005.html

Top 5 in defensive rating in every season but one.

Yao has played alongside players such as a very capable Tracy McGrady, solid perimeter defender and veteran leaders in Ron Artest (a HUGE reason they got past the first round in 09 while Yao wasn't at %100) and Shane Battier. Not to mention a neat PG in Rafer Alston. Now compare that to the talent on the team that Dwight Howard has taken to the NBA finals.


I said national team accomplishments, go back and learn to read

Really you said NATIONAL team accomplishments?


Pau and Manu do not have similar international accomplishments, Manu has far more


I guess you forgot to exclude the inter then :rolleyes:

Pau was the 06 FIBA Championship MVP something Manu was never able to win with his Argentine team.


garbage, a formula cannot be used to calculate HOF worthiness, especially one that takes height into consideration

That's your biased opinion which no one seems to agree with. Based of what we have seen throughout history it has been perfectly accurate thus far.


It doesn't matter who he dominated, he was the best center in the NBA during his prime, he cannot help that he played against inferior competition

And no, any rational person could not consider Shaq or especially Dwight better during that period, you clearly never watched Yao and Dwight face each other

And once again, which you did not address, the HOF is an individual accomplishment and Yao was a much better player than Pau

in 04-06 Shaq was still viewed as the most dominant big man in the game. Which he indeed was. In those two seasons he shot near career highs from the field and really turned it up when playoff time came around (something Yao is yet to comprehend).

from 07-09 Dwight led all Cs in the NBA (Yao included by a large margin) in DWS

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2007&year_max=2009&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=C&qual=&c1stat=per&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=dws

he was slightly lower than Yao in PER at 23.1 while Yao stood at 23.6.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2007&year_max=2009&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=C&qual=&c1stat=g&c1comp=gt&c1val=50&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=per

While also slaughtering Yao in WS

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2007&year_max=2009&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=C&qual=&c1stat=g&c1comp=gt&c1val=50&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws

and wasn't far off from Yao in WS/48

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2007&year_max=2009&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=C&qual=&c1stat=g&c1comp=gt&c1val=80&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws_per_48

Key thing with Dwight however is that he was able to stay healthy. You can dominate anyone if you are not dressed to play basketball.

to help bolster your argument however I will give you the fact that Yao has dominated Howard when they have faced eachother

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=mingya01&p2=howardw01

but does that mean he was the most dominant C?

I don't think so. He was dominant of Dwight Howard certainly but he wasn't the most dominant C in the NBA in the very least. Dwight dominated more than Yao did. That is why HE led his team to the NBA finals.

To your last point about HOF being an individual accomplishment while I do agree to a certain extent by that logic Dennis Johnson would never have made it and Dennis Rodman would have been a first ballot HOFer. A LOT more has to be taken into consideration other than playing well over a span of 5 seasons. In that case players should call it quits after 6-7 years in the league and be confident that they are going to be HOFers.

Anything else?

More-Than-Most
03-02-2011, 11:42 PM
Nash and Dirk are locks and rather easy to be honest. Pau and Manu are a possibility with a no to Yao

kdspurman
03-02-2011, 11:54 PM
i agree with everyone basically saying nash, pau, dirk, manu, (duncan?), and maybe parker. I think there's more questions with parker than manu cause manu has accomplished more playing for his country. i'm sure i missed some people but wanted to touch on the main guys. (pause)

i dont think its a debate, pau and manu are both going in. its not the NBA hall of fame it's the Basketball hall of fame, and those guys respectively have done great things in their basketball careers as i saw some people point out each accomplishments.

"The Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame, located in Springfield, Massachusetts, United States, honors exceptional basketball players, coaches, referees, executives, and other major contributors to the game."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball_Hall_of_Fame

Swashcuff
03-04-2011, 11:48 AM
Other than the common names I wonder who would be the next international to be debated as a possible HOFer?

Bargs, Horford, Bogut, Marc Gasol? :shrug:

ghettosean
03-04-2011, 01:47 PM
Steve Nash and Motumbo

smith&wesson
03-04-2011, 02:04 PM
nash
gino
dirk
pau
parker

xbrackattackx
03-04-2011, 03:11 PM
I know that Nash,Pau,Dirk,Parker and Duncan will be.


Yao even though he wasn't dominate as he was made out to be and made of glass. The thing I think that will get him in is his Global Success everyone knows who Yao Ming is even if you don't watch basketball he was a big deal coming over. He lead his respective teams as far as he could handling them.

Manu I honestly think he gets in.

Ray_R
03-04-2011, 04:44 PM
Lol.

Walt frazier had 6 seasons with 20 PPG or more.. was one of the best players in Knicks history... had a bunch of 40 + point games.. and had amazing playoff Numbers.. For One... SO your an idiot.


And Just because I have a picture of Biggie doesn't mean I think he's the best rapper.. that is just a great picture... And although he is ugly.. he could get any lady he wanted.. and Pau Gasol can only get Cheap Transvestite hookers..

Lil Wayne, Jay-Z, Tupac, and Eminem are Equal to or Better then Biggie if you were wondering my thought.

<3
:(