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View Full Version : Who are the top 15 players based on JUST THIS SEASON?



LakersIn5
03-02-2011, 12:27 PM
just based on this season without regarding the past and this season is like the very first season of the nba so everyone has 0 rings and 0 awards. who do you rank as the nba's top 15 players right now.

Khalifa21
03-02-2011, 12:52 PM
1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Kevin Durant
6. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Chris Paul
8. Derrick Rose
9. Amar'e Stoudemire
10. Carmelo Anthony
11. Blake Griffin
12. Deron Williams
13. Pau Gasol
14. Kevin Love
15. Rajon Rondo

Ragan
03-02-2011, 12:54 PM
1 LeBron
2 Rose
3 Howard
4 Kobe
5 Wade
6 Durant
7 Nowitzki
8 Melo
9 Westbrook
10 Love
11 Paul
12 Amare
13 Griffin
14 Aldridge
15 D Williams

Honorable mention: Gasol, Ginobili, Pierce, Kevin Martin, Randolph, Nash

DaBUU
03-02-2011, 12:54 PM
1.DRose
2.Lebron
3.DWade
4.Dwight Howard
5.CP3
6.Stat
7.Durant
8.Kobe
9.Dirk
10.Pau Gasol
11. Rondo
12. KLove
13.Deron Williams
14.Melo
15.Westbrook

RZZZA
03-02-2011, 12:57 PM
I don't know, but Dwight and Rose have to top this list

JoeyDubb23
03-02-2011, 12:59 PM
Rose
Lebron
Howard
Stat
Durant
Melo
Kobe
Dirk
Paul
Williams
Love
Wade
Griffin
Rondo
Gasol



Hard choices. Hard to pick other people off of good teams bc they play so good as teams. Like the Spurs and Celtics

bovice163
03-02-2011, 01:02 PM
1. LeBron
2. Dwight
3. Rose
4. Wade
5. Durant
6. Kobe
7. CP3
8. Dirk
9. DWill
10. Gasol
11. Griffin
12. Amare
13. Love
14. Rondo
15. Westbrook

Avenged
03-02-2011, 01:07 PM
Lebron, Rose, Dwight, Dirk are all in the top 5.

Kobe is probably 7 or 8.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-02-2011, 01:31 PM
Wow shame on you people.

Kobe is still a top 3 player.

Avenged
03-02-2011, 01:35 PM
Wow shame on you people.

Kobe is still a top 3 player.

IF we're counting ONLY this season no. Their are other players playing better than him at the moment.

Chronz
03-02-2011, 01:36 PM
Why are people listing Rose in the top5? MVP is one thing but best overall player is quite another, there are no BS factors that come into play here, this is strictly about the individual. Khalifa has the best list thus far but I would have Rose below Pau

bovice163
03-02-2011, 01:39 PM
Why are people listing Rose in the top5? MVP is one thing but best overall player is quite another, there are no BS factors that come into play here, this is strictly about the individual. Khalifa has the best list thus far but I would have Rose below Pau

It's all opinion buddy. You don't have to come in here and discredit Rose because he doesn't coincide with your over analysis of statistical efficiency.

Raph12
03-02-2011, 01:48 PM
1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Kevin Durant
6. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Chris Paul
8. Derrick Rose
9. Amar'e Stoudemire
10. Carmelo Anthony
11. Blake Griffin
12. Deron Williams
13. Pau Gasol
14. Kevin Love
15. Rajon Rondo

Dead on :clap:

Chacarron
03-02-2011, 01:49 PM
Yea, I liked Khalifa's list as well.

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 02:00 PM
1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Kevin Durant
6. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Chris Paul
8. Derrick Rose
9. Amar'e Stoudemire
10. Carmelo Anthony
11. Blake Griffin
12. Deron Williams
13. Pau Gasol
14. Kevin Love
15. Rajon Rondo

As usual solid posting from you :clap:

DaBUU
03-02-2011, 02:08 PM
Why are people listing Rose in the top5? MVP is one thing but best overall player is quite another, there are no BS factors that come into play here, this is strictly about the individual. Khalifa has the best list thus far but I would have Rose below Pau

here we go, more schtick coma. crap get really old.

ManRam
03-02-2011, 02:11 PM
I like khalifa's list too. Rose may be the mvp, but he's still not a top 5 player, at least not yet.

bbcmillionaire
03-02-2011, 02:23 PM
I like khalifa's list too. Rose may be the mvp, but he's still not a top 5 player, at least not yet.

Lol huh

GodsSon
03-02-2011, 02:26 PM
How is Carmelo on anyone's top 10 list? I'd even say he's a fringe top 15 player this season.

pebloemer
03-02-2011, 02:37 PM
1. LeBron
2. Howard
3. Wade
4. Rose
5. Dirk
6. Kobe
7. Durant
8. Amar'e
9. Paul
10. Pau
11. Westbrook
12. Rondo
13. Griffin
14. Deron
15. Love

Hawkeye15
03-02-2011, 02:42 PM
1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Kevin Durant
6. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Chris Paul
8. Derrick Rose
9. Amar'e Stoudemire
10. Carmelo Anthony
11. Blake Griffin
12. Deron Williams
13. Pau Gasol
14. Kevin Love
15. Rajon Rondo


more or less what I would have. I would drop Kobe below Durant, flips Dirk and Paul, and move Pau up a spot or two. But pretty solid list overall, best in this thread for me

six
03-02-2011, 03:08 PM
I like khalifa's list too. Rose may be the mvp, but he's still not a top 5 player, at least not yet.

I assume you are joking.

PrettyBoyJ
03-02-2011, 03:09 PM
1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Kevin Durant
6. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Chris Paul
8. Derrick Rose
9. Amar'e Stoudemire
10. Carmelo Anthony
11. Blake Griffin
12. Deron Williams
13. Pau Gasol
14. Kevin Love
15. Rajon Rondo

I'd switch chris paul and d. rose spot on the list but other then that this list is pretty accurate

NORMeaga
03-02-2011, 03:15 PM
maybe i've misunderstood some of you peoples post, but some of you are saying Rose may be MVP but hes not a top 5 player this season...umm, if he does win MVP doesnt that make him the #1 player this season? # justsaying

1. Rose
2. Howard
3 Lebron
4 Wade
5 Pau
6 Durant
7 Stat
8 Kobe
9 Dirk
10. Love
11. CP3
12. Melo
13 Pierce
14. Ginobili
15. Aldridge

DaBUU
03-02-2011, 03:16 PM
more or less what I would have. I would drop Kobe below Durant, and move Pau up a spot or two. But pretty solid list overall, best in this thread for me

:facepalm: I usually respect your opinion

Da Knicks
03-02-2011, 03:19 PM
Why are people listing Rose in the top5? MVP is one thing but best overall player is quite another, there are no BS factors that come into play here, this is strictly about the individual. Khalifa has the best list thus far but I would have Rose below Pau

Gotta agree with you on that one brah, the list is pretty legit.

CostanzaNumba0
03-02-2011, 03:34 PM
kevin love is being underrated, hes having one of the best statistical years in modern history

Giraffes Rule
03-02-2011, 03:35 PM
maybe i've misunderstood some of you peoples post, but some of you are saying Rose may be MVP but hes not a top 5 player this season...umm, if he does win MVP doesnt that make him the #1 player this season? # justsaying

1. Rose
2. Howard
3 Lebron
4 Wade
5 Pau
6 Durant
7 Stat
8 Kobe
9 Dirk
10. Love
11. CP3
12. Melo
13 Pierce
14. Ginobili
15. Aldridge
Most Valuable isn't the same as best. The best player in the league is still Lebron. He's not as valuable to his team as DRose though, right now.

godolphins
03-02-2011, 03:44 PM
1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Kevin Durant
6. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Chris Paul
8. Derrick Rose
9. Amar'e Stoudemire
10. Carmelo Anthony
11. Blake Griffin
12. Deron Williams
13. Pau Gasol
14. Kevin Love
15. Rajon Rondo
Agree

mdm692
03-02-2011, 03:45 PM
Why is STEVE NASH NOT on the list

16Ppg 11.3 apg
Shooting 40-50-90 for the 5th time in his career(no one comes close in history)
Leads ALL guards in double doubles and games with 15pts 15asst
Leads PGS in fg%
I can keep going on on. . . All of this with no stoudemire an old *** VC and bunch of role players



BTW HE IS 37 YRS OLD!!!!

I'm Seriously
03-02-2011, 03:46 PM
1: LeBron
2: Dwight
3: Wade
4: Kobe
5: Durant
6: Dirk
7: Nash
8: Rose
9: Deron
10: Paul
11: Pau
12: Amare
13: Aldridge
14: Melo
15: Rondo/Westbrook

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 03:50 PM
maybe i've misunderstood some of you peoples post, but some of you are saying Rose may be MVP but hes not a top 5 player this season...umm, if he does win MVP doesnt that make him the #1 player this season? # justsaying

1. Rose
2. Howard
3 Lebron
4 Wade
5 Pau
6 Durant
7 Stat
8 Kobe
9 Dirk
10. Love
11. CP3
12. Melo
13 Pierce
14. Ginobili
15. Aldridge

You are wrong bro. Steve Nash (the most recent example) was a two time defending MVP and was never considered the best player in the game. He is arguably the worst defensive PG of the last decade in the NBA. No one would have considered him the best player in the game. Best shooter YES, best passer YES best player. Not so much.

Derrick Rose is much better than Nash is/was defensively but he still is not the best player in the game. He still isn't top 5 in all honesty.

Hawkeye15
03-02-2011, 03:52 PM
maybe i've misunderstood some of you peoples post, but some of you are saying Rose may be MVP but hes not a top 5 player this season...umm, if he does win MVP doesnt that make him the #1 player this season? # justsaying

no. The best player doesn't always win MVP. If that was the case, Shaq would have 3-5 of them. But he has 1. Steve Nash would have 0, but he has 2. Get it? Its not ALWAYS about who the best player is.

Hawkeye15
03-02-2011, 03:55 PM
kevin love is being underrated, hes having one of the best statistical years in modern history

seeing as he is on everyone's top 15 list, from a 14 win team, I think he is rated right where he should be. Statistically, he is for sure a top 5 player. But that is on paper. Games aren't played on paper. But I do agree he is somewhere in the 12-15 range. If the Wolves win 35+ games next year, and he is still throwing up 20-15 on good percentages then sure, move him into the top 10. But not yet. He needs wins

mdm692
03-02-2011, 03:56 PM
You are wrong bro. Steve Nash (the most recent example) was a two time defending MVP and was never considered the best player in the game. He is arguably the worst defensive PG of the last decade in the NBA. No one would have considered him the best player in the game. Best shooter YES, best passer YES best player. Not so much.

Derrick Rose is much better than Nash is/was defensively but he still is not the best player in the game. He still isn't top 5 in all honesty.

Have u heard the best offense is a great defense. . .well it works the other way too steve nash and rose are so good they will beat you and get you frustrayed in the offensive end. . .thats why players like hill, deng, noah, gortat, dudley, pietrus are paired up with those players to make up for their lack of defense

Tarheels23
03-02-2011, 04:01 PM
1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Kevin Durant
6. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Chris Paul
8. Derrick Rose
9. Amar'e Stoudemire
10. Carmelo Anthony
11. Blake Griffin
12. Deron Williams
13. Pau Gasol
14. Kevin Love
15. Rajon Rondo

I agree more or less. I would try to find a way to include Manu and LaMarcus somehow. Also, Iguodala is having a very underrated season - Dont know if he is quite top 15 though

Hawkeye15
03-02-2011, 04:07 PM
to those who simply can't grasp that being an MVP candidate doesn't necessarily make you a top 3-5 player, here are Nash's two seasons, in win shares and PER, for his MVP years, compared to the best players.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2005&year_max=2005&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws

#15 in win shares his 1st MVP

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2005&year_max=2005&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=per

#18 in PER his 1st MVP

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2006&year_max=2006&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws

#10 in win shares his 2nd MVP

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2006&year_max=2006&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=per

#12 in PER for his 2nd MVP.

Again, its not THE BEST PLAYER many times that wins MVP. There are a lot of factors in the voting. Media hype, anger towards real MVP candidates (the Kobe rape thing, LeBron gutting Cleveland, etc). The MVP award has become something I don't really care about, but thank god they have a 2 year string going right now where the right person got it.

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 04:07 PM
Have u heard the best offense is a great defense. . .well it works the other way too steve nash and rose are so good they will beat you and get you frustrayed in the offensive end. . .thats why players like hill, deng, noah, gortat, dudley, pietrus are paired up with those players to make up for their lack of defense

So then why has there been 1 running team in the History of the NBA to have any sort of prolonged success as a running team?

Name me one running team other than the Showtime Lakers who won an NBA championship.

Don't class Nash and Rose in the same discussion either because as I said they are much different on the defensive end though Rose isn't the greatest he is still very capable.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
03-02-2011, 04:07 PM
It would be really tough to pick a top fifteen. I'm not sure what mine is.

Hawkeye15
03-02-2011, 04:08 PM
Have u heard the best offense is a great defense. . .well it works the other way too steve nash and rose are so good they will beat you and get you frustrayed in the offensive end. . .thats why players like hill, deng, noah, gortat, dudley, pietrus are paired up with those players to make up for their lack of defense

there is no way, and I mean none, that you can make a case for Nash being the best player in any year he has played. Nobody is criticizing Nash here, simply trying to demonstrate to some Rose fans that you can indeed be in the MVP running, and not be a top 3 player.

D1JM
03-02-2011, 04:11 PM
rose isnt a top five player. i dont know why some people get offended.

jetboy17
03-02-2011, 04:13 PM
1) Lebron
2) Lebron
3) Lebron
4) Lebron
5) Lebron

....and the list keeps going on

D1JM
03-02-2011, 04:13 PM
my top five in no particular order

durant
howard
wade
lebron
dirk

valade16
03-02-2011, 04:14 PM
How many Blazers have to get injured before LMA gets some respect? He's been a top 15 player. If your just gonna pull advanced stats and haven't seen more than a couple Blazer games don't bother responding.

Since Roy first went down he's averaging 26 and 10 and was pretty much single-handidly carrying the Blazers to an above .500 record...

I'm not saying he's top 5 or even top 10 but people not having in the top 15 is wrong imo...

He wrecked Love's world when they played, not saying he's better than Love (don't want to get the thread sidetracked) but shouldn't destroying a guy most consider a top 15 player count for something?

RZZZA
03-02-2011, 04:14 PM
MVP definitely is not the same thing as best player.

I'm just stoked that so many people have Rose in their top 10, that's really something. Who would have said he would be top 10 a year ago?

TonySaysWhat?
03-02-2011, 04:14 PM
Why are people listing Rose in the top5? MVP is one thing but best overall player is quite another, there are no BS factors that come into play here, this is strictly about the individual. Khalifa has the best list thus far but I would have Rose below Pau


Are you kidding?

Look at the numbers kid. Seriously. I agree MVP does not denot a player as being the best OVERALL player, but if this season was the very first season ever, I would have Rose top 3 if not 1st.

Hawkeye15
03-02-2011, 04:18 PM
How many Blazers have to get injured before LMA gets some respect? He's been a top 15 player. If your just gonna pull advanced stats and haven't seen more than a couple Blazer games don't bother responding.

he is right on the cusp. But he still has some talent on that team, cmon now. But LA is having a great season. He is a top 20 player no doubt.

On a side note, using head to head's is not a valid argument. Love and LA don't even guard each other most the time they play. And Minny gets killed by every single long, athletic big, because they don't have anything to counter that with like most teams do. Here is hoping to Randolph becoming something

D1JM
03-02-2011, 04:18 PM
MVP definitely is not the same thing as best player.

I'm just stoked that so many people have Rose in their top 10, that's really something. Who would have said he would be top 10 a year ago?

Agreed rzzza. Some people are confusing MVP to best player and I am also surprised how many people have rose in their top ten.

avrpatsfan
03-02-2011, 04:19 PM
1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Kevin Durant
6. Derrick Rose
7. Chris Paul
8. Dirk Nowitzki
9. Amar'e Stoudemire
10. Blake Griffin
11. Carmelo Anthony
12. Deron Williams
13. Kevin Love
14. Rajon Rondo
15. Pau Gasol

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 04:20 PM
Are you kidding?

Look at the numbers kid. Seriously. I agree MVP does not denot a player as being the best OVERALL player, but if this season was the very first season ever, I would have Rose top 3 if not 1st.

two things

1. He is the last poster you should be calling Kid. He's quite possibly the oldest poster on here

2. He knows the numbers just as good as anyone and has his reasoning for what he is saying

I don't fully agree with him but he does have his logic and reasoning.

Hawkeye15
03-02-2011, 04:20 PM
MVP definitely is not the same thing as best player.

I'm just stoked that so many people have Rose in their top 10, that's really something. Who would have said he would be top 10 a year ago?

who would have thought Love would be a top 15 players? :shrug:

nitric
03-02-2011, 04:20 PM
1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Kevin Durant
6. Derrick Rose
7. Chris Paul
8. Dirk Nowitzki
9. Amar'e Stoudemire
10. Blake Griffin
11. Carmelo Anthony
12. Deron Williams
13. Kevin Love
14. Rajon Rondo
15. Pau GasolAgreed with the top 10. Maybe DWill over Blake? and Dirk over CP3

Hawkeye15
03-02-2011, 04:21 PM
two things

1. He is the last poster you should be calling Kid. He's quite possibly the oldest poster on here

2. He knows the numbers just as good as anyone and has his reasoning for what he is saying

I don't fully agree with him but he does have his logic and reasoning.

don't forget about llemon!

Hawkeye15
03-02-2011, 04:23 PM
1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Kevin Durant
6. Derrick Rose
7. Chris Paul
8. Dirk Nowitzki
9. Amar'e Stoudemire
10. Blake Griffin
11. Carmelo Anthony
12. Deron Williams
13. Kevin Love
14. Rajon Rondo
15. Pau Gasol

flip Paul and Rose, move Pau up a few spots, and this is perfect.

Sadds The Gr8
03-02-2011, 04:23 PM
Khalifa's is good, but i'd flip Wade and Kobe.

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 04:23 PM
who would have thought Love would be a top 15 players? :shrug:

Not even the biggest Kevin Love d*** rider TBH. He's really been a pleasant surprise to those who appreciate the history of the game.

shizzle09
03-02-2011, 04:23 PM
1. LeBron
2. Howard
3. Wade
4. Rose
5. Dirk
6. Kobe
7. Durant
8. Amar'e
9. Paul
10. Pau
11. Westbrook
12. Rondo
13. Griffin
14. Deron
15. Love

Perfect list except i'd have Westbrook higher than Paul this year.

Hawkeye15
03-02-2011, 04:25 PM
Not even the biggest Kevin Love d*** rider TBH. He's really been a pleasant surprise to those who appreciate the history of the game.

you are talking to the biggest Love d*** rider on PSD over the last 3 years. But there was no way on earth I expected him to crack the top 20-25 players this year. Although I did call a monster statistical season before the year even started.

The BodyGuard
03-02-2011, 04:29 PM
My top 5

Durant
Kobe
Howard
Westbrook
Griffin

pd1dish
03-02-2011, 04:30 PM
Wow shame on you people.

Kobe is still a top 3 player.

not this season......

idk about a whole list of 15 people but my top 3 would be lebron, rose, and howard in no particular order

WolvesJagsOs
03-02-2011, 04:30 PM
he is right on the cusp. But he still has some talent on that team, cmon now. But LA is having a great season. He is a top 20 player no doubt.

On a side note, using head to head's is not a valid argument. Love and LA don't even guard each other most the time they play. And Minny gets killed by every single long, athletic big, because they don't have anything to counter that with like most teams do. Here is hoping to Randolph becoming something

Cheers!

I'm Seriously
03-02-2011, 04:31 PM
So then why has there been 1 running team in the History of the NBA to have any sort of prolonged success as a running team?

Name me one running team other than the Showtime Lakers who won an NBA championship.

Don't class Nash and Rose in the same discussion either because as I said they are much different on the defensive end though Rose isn't the greatest he is still very capable.

Your aware that pratically every team in the 80's and early 90's ran right?

Nash and Rose are also very different on the offensive end.

Seeing as how Nash is a much better passer, a much better shooter, and much better at running an offense.

He's easily a better offensive player.

shizzle09
03-02-2011, 04:31 PM
Lebron
Howard
Wade
Rose
Dirk
Kobe
Durant
Westbrook(dude is having a beast of a year)
Amare
Paul

Reddd
03-02-2011, 04:33 PM
maybe i've misunderstood some of you peoples post, but some of you are saying Rose may be MVP but hes not a top 5 player this season...umm, if he does win MVP doesnt that make him the #1 player this season? # justsaying

1. Rose
2. Howard
3 Lebron
4 Wade
5 Pau
6 Durant
7 Stat
8 Kobe
9 Dirk
10. Love
11. CP3
12. Melo
13 Pierce
14. Ginobili
15. Aldridge

agreed:clap:
contradicting

mdm692
03-02-2011, 04:35 PM
So then why has there been 1 running team in the History of the NBA to have any sort of prolonged success as a running team?

Name me one running team other than the Showtime Lakers who won an NBA championship.

Don't class Nash and Rose in the same discussion either because as I said they are much different on the defensive end though Rose isn't the greatest he is still very capable.

suns have had a lot of success lol they didnt win championships because. . .
2004-05: Joe got hurt
2005-06: Stoudemire had knee surgery out for season
2006-07: stoudemire and diaw got suspended after nash got thrown to announcers table
2007-08: Suns had shaq spurs used hack a shaq to force him to the line
2008-09: No playoffs thanks to terry porter
2009-10: Lucky shot by ron artest after kobe AIRBALLS

So a lot of success lol had we had a healthy team were talking about at least 2 championships lol
Btw 3 wcf and all 50+ win seasons except when we didnt make playoffs 48. . .

Fnom11
03-02-2011, 04:35 PM
There's no excuse for having CP3 under Rose. I love Rose, but CP3 is 10x the player Drose is. He can do literally everything better than Rose except floaters(kid has the best floaters in the game).

1. Lebron
2. Dwight
3. Wade
4. Kobe
5. CP3
6. Durant
7. Dirk
8. Rose
9. Amare
10. Melo
11. Dwill
12. Griffen
13. Westbrook
14. Gasol
15. Rondo

12-15 are kind of opinionated. Like LMA K-love and others. Still think Love is the most overrated player in the league, I mean it most be hard getting rebounds when you team shoots 30% every game. 14 wins, 14 wins.

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 04:35 PM
you are talking to the biggest Love d*** rider on PSD over the last 3 years. But there was no way on earth I expected him to crack the top 20-25 players this year. Although I did call a monster statistical season before the year even started.

I told you to put that post in your sig bro you wont listen ;)

Fnom11
03-02-2011, 04:37 PM
My top 5

Durant
Kobe
Howard
Westbrook
Griffin

trolololllol

Fnom11
03-02-2011, 04:39 PM
Your aware that pratically every team in the 80's and early 90's ran right?

Nash and Rose are also very different on the offensive end.

Seeing as how Nash is a much better passer, a much better shooter, and much better at running an offense.

He's easily a better offensive player.

Only think Rose is better at offensively is driving to the lane and attacking, however Rose is the better all around player.

metsfanssince05
03-02-2011, 04:41 PM
1.Lebron
2.Howard
3.Rose
4.Durant
5.Kobe
6.Westbrook
7.D-Will
8.CP3
9.Dirk
10.Rondo
11.Amar'e
12.Griffin
13.Love
14.Melo
15.Alderidge

Fnom11
03-02-2011, 04:43 PM
1.Lebron
2.Howard
3.Rose
4.Durant
5.Kobe
6.Westbrook
7.D-Will
8.CP3
9.Dirk
10.Rondo
11.Amar'e
12.Griffin
13.Love
14.Melo
15.Alderidge


Wade isnt a top 15 player?

I'm Seriously
03-02-2011, 04:44 PM
Only think Rose is better at offensively is driving to the lane and attacking, however Rose is the better all around player.

I disagree.

Nash is easily the better offensive player, and Rose is easily the better defensive player.

However I value a PG's offense alot more than a PG's defense.

Therefore Nash>Rose.

D Roses Bulls
03-02-2011, 04:45 PM
to those who simply can't grasp that being an MVP candidate doesn't necessarily make you a top 3-5 player, here are Nash's two seasons, in win shares and PER, for his MVP years, compared to the best players.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2005&year_max=2005&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws

#15 in win shares his 1st MVP

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2005&year_max=2005&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=per

#18 in PER his 1st MVP

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2006&year_max=2006&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws

#10 in win shares his 2nd MVP

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2006&year_max=2006&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=per

#12 in PER for his 2nd MVP.

Again, its not THE BEST PLAYER many times that wins MVP. There are a lot of factors in the voting. Media hype, anger towards real MVP candidates (the Kobe rape thing, LeBron gutting Cleveland, etc). The MVP award has become something I don't really care about, but thank god they have a 2 year string going right now where the right person got it.

please ban PER from this site. I understand what you are trying to say, but god what a horrible stat. you have to no matter what factor in the intangibles such as leadership and such when saying who the best players are and you can't do that going off of PER or using stats period.

ILMindState
03-02-2011, 04:47 PM
suns have had a lot of success lol they didnt win championships because. . .
2004-05: Joe got hurt
2005-06: Stoudemire had knee surgery out for season
2006-07: stoudemire and diaw got suspended after nash got thrown to announcers table
2007-08: Suns had shaq spurs used hack a shaq to force him to the line
2008-09: No playoffs thanks to terry porter
2009-10: Lucky shot by ron artest after kobe AIRBALLS



Do you have an excuse lined up for this year?

gotoHcarolina52
03-02-2011, 04:50 PM
1. LeBron
2. Dwight
3. Rose
4. Wade
5. Durant
6. Kobe
7. CP3
8. Dirk
9. DWill
10. Gasol
11. Griffin
12. Amare
13. Love
14. Rondo
15. Westbrook

Excellent list.

WolvesJagsOs
03-02-2011, 04:51 PM
There's no excuse for having CP3 under Rose. I love Rose, but CP3 is 10x the player Drose is. He can do literally everything better than Rose except floaters(kid has the best floaters in the game).

1. Lebron
2. Dwight
3. Wade
4. Kobe
5. CP3
6. Durant
7. Dirk
8. Rose
9. Amare
10. Melo
11. Dwill
12. Griffen
13. Westbrook
14. Gasol
15. Rondo

12-15 are kind of opinionated. Like LMA K-love and others. Still think Love is the most overrated player in the league, I mean it most be hard getting rebounds when you team shoots 30% every game. 14 wins, 14 wins.

Im pretty sure Wolves shoot 43% per game. The dude is one of the most efficient players in the game dude. He shoots 42% from the 3, 87% from the FT line, 47% from the field, averages 20+ PPG, 15+ RPG, what he does isnt "just because he is on a bad team" kind of numbers. Im sick of hearing that argument, its completely wrong.

I'm Seriously
03-02-2011, 04:52 PM
Do you have an excuse lined up for this year?

Excuse? It's a miracle that team is above .500, and has a good shot at making the playoffs.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8946

Nash is just amazing.

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 04:52 PM
suns have had a lot of success lol they didnt win championships because. . .
2004-05: Joe got hurt
2005-06: Stoudemire had knee surgery out for season
2006-07: stoudemire and diaw got suspended after nash got thrown to announcers table
2007-08: Suns had shaq spurs used hack a shaq to force him to the line
2008-09: No playoffs thanks to terry porter
2009-10: Lucky shot by ron artest after kobe AIRBALLS

So a lot of success lol had we had a healthy team were talking about at least 2 championships lol
Btw 3 wcf and all 50+ win seasons except when we didnt make playoffs 48. . .

Please hold while I go think up my 102 baseless excuses as why my Cubs haven't one a World Series in forever.

Stop making excuses and face facts. The Suns are/were not going to win a Championship unless they started playing DEFENSE. All your excuses as baseless.

Wait though what is your excuse for this season? No Stoudemire?

DaBUU
03-02-2011, 04:53 PM
please ban PER from this site. I understand what you are trying to say, but god what a horrible stat. you have to no matter what factor in the intangibles such as leadership and such when saying who the best players are and you can't do that going off of PER or using stats period.

This is what im trying to say, i realize best player and MVP are not the same. LBJ has been the best player, but Rose has been the MVP, I get that. But some of you guys are Stat Zombies (PER, I Need PER) and fail to take everything into account, which is understandable since you dont watch every teams games. Just dont act like you know all based on your sacred stats only.

Fnom11
03-02-2011, 04:57 PM
I disagree.

Nash is easily the better offensive player, and Rose is easily the better defensive player.

However I value a PG's offense alot more than a PG's defense.

Therefore Nash>Rose.

I understand what you mean but it's not as if Rose is a terrible passer/shooter. While Nash is easily a FAR better shooter, he's just slight a better passer. I think the best way to put it would be into stats out of 100.

Like Nash's stats would be like
Passing: 99
Shooting:90
Ability to run the offense:95
Defense:30
Slashing ability:20
Ability to score:60


Roses
Passing:85
Shooting:75
Ability to run the offense:90
Defense:60-70 depending on how hard he feels like trying
Slashing Ability:95
Ability to score:75

Now I'm just trying to make a point here, and obviously it's just my opinion. But I'd take Rose because while he's worse at passing and shoot than Nash is, it's not as if Rose isn't good at those things. He just isnt amazing at him.

tredigs
03-02-2011, 04:57 PM
Why are people listing Rose in the top5? MVP is one thing but best overall player is quite another, there are no BS factors that come into play here, this is strictly about the individual. Khalifa has the best list thus far but I would have Rose below Pau

Haha, seriously. My first reaction too.


It's all opinion buddy. You don't have to come in here and discredit Rose because he doesn't coincide with your over analysis of statistical efficiency.

It's really not opinion, though. There's no rational argument that you could make to put Rose as the better player than Lebron, Wade, Howard Durant, etc. They're all simply far better than he is, and in Durant's case we could readily see this over the summer while Rose (and everyone else) rode his leadership and consistent dominance to gold.

Top players in the league this year are:
Lebron
Howard
Wade
Dirk
Durant
Cp3
Deron
Rose
Westbrook
Nash
Kobe
Amare
Pau
Blake Griffin
K. Love

Manu

Fnom11
03-02-2011, 04:59 PM
Im pretty sure Wolves shoot 43% per game. The dude is one of the most efficient players in the game dude. He shoots 42% from the 3, 87% from the FT line, 47% from the field, averages 20+ PPG, 15+ RPG, what he does isnt "just because he is on a bad team" kind of numbers. Im sick of hearing that argument, its completely wrong.



14 wins, half of his points are from the FT/ putbacks. He's a phenomenal rebounder, but his D is horrible, not a great passer, can't create his own shot from the perimeter, and his post game isn't anything to brag about.

I'm Seriously
03-02-2011, 05:00 PM
Please hold while I go think up my 102 baseless excuses as why my Cubs haven't one a World Series in forever.

Stop making excuses and face facts. The Suns are/were not going to win a Championship unless they started playing DEFENSE. All your excuses as baseless.

Wait though what is your excuse for this season? No Stoudemire?

Except the Suns did play defense. They were routinely around the middle of the league defensively.

If none of those injuries, or suspensions happend, the Suns may have won a couple of titles.

There is no excuse this season. No one in there right mind thinks the Suns are anywhere close to winning a title, but the fact that Nash has that team 4 games above .500, and in the hunt for the playoffs is amazing.

And didn't the Suns win 54 games without Amare? While also getting just as far in the playoffs?(while lacking an actual big man for almost half of the season.)

tredigs
03-02-2011, 05:01 PM
Forgot to finish that comment, but Manu, Rondo, Garnett and Aldridge are all right there as well.

I'm Seriously
03-02-2011, 05:04 PM
I understand what you mean but it's not as if Rose is a terrible passer/shooter. While Nash is easily a FAR better shooter, he's just slight a better passer. I think the best way to put it would be into stats out of 100.

Like Nash's stats would be like
Passing: 99
Shooting:90
Ability to run the offense:95
Defense:30
Slashing ability:20
Ability to score:60


Roses
Passing:85
Shooting:75
Ability to run the offense:90
Defense:60-70 depending on how hard he feels like trying
Slashing Ability:95
Ability to score:75

Now I'm just trying to make a point here, and obviously it's just my opinion. But I'd take Rose because while he's worse at passing and shoot than Nash is, it's not as if Rose isn't good at those things. He just isnt amazing at him.

Nash is a much better passer, and far better at running an offense.

Overall he's a far better offensive player.

And again, PG offense>PG defense.

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 05:05 PM
Except the Suns did play defense. They were routinely around the middle of the league defensively.

If none of those injuries, or suspensions happend, the Suns may have won a couple of titles.

There is no excuse this season. No one in there right mind thinks the Suns are anywhere close to winning a title, but the fact that Nash has that team 4 games above .500, and in the hunt for the playoffs is amazing.

And didn't the Suns win 54 games without Amare? While also getting just as far in the playoffs?(while lacking an actual big man for almost half of the season.)

Sigh!

Do you understand what middle of the league defensively would get you in today's NBA?

O I forgot you do.

Regardless of what the Suns would NEVER has been able to get pass the Pistons, Lakers, Celts and Spurs (last season excluded) and I have a hard time believing that they would have gotten past the Magic and Cavs even if they did.

Chronz
03-02-2011, 05:08 PM
It's all opinion buddy. You don't have to come in here and discredit Rose because he doesn't coincide with your over analysis of statistical efficiency.
Why not? Its a question asking about the top15, of course I have to discredit Rose to put him in proper perspective, if people didnt constantly overrate him I wouldnt be mentioning him.

The Jokemaker
03-02-2011, 05:08 PM
1. Rose
2. Howard
3. Paul
4. Lebron
5. Melo
6. Nowitzki
7. Durant
8. Kobe
9. Amare
10. Wade
11. Randolph
12. Rondo
13. Nash
14. Aldridge
15. Love

I'm Seriously
03-02-2011, 05:10 PM
Sigh!

Do you understand what middle of the league defensively would get you in today's NBA?

O I forgot you do.

Regardless of what the Suns would NEVER has been able to get pass the Pistons, Lakers, Celts and Spurs (last season excluded) and I have a hard time believing that they would have gotten past the Magic and Cavs even if they did.

When you have the best offense in the league(and one of the best ever) it could get you pretty far.

Thank you Sir, I had no idea you could see into the future.

ILMindState
03-02-2011, 05:10 PM
Excuse? It's a miracle that team is above .500, and has a good shot at making the playoffs.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8946

Nash is just amazing.

I'm not talking about Nash. I agree Nash is amazing. I'm talking about that hilarious list of excuses.

Lake_Show2416
03-02-2011, 05:13 PM
1. Derrick Rose
2. Lebron James
3. Dirk Nowitzki
4. Kobe Byant
5. Dwight Howard
6. Kevin Durant
7. Chris Paul
8. Amare Stoudemire
9. Carmelo Anthony
10. Pau Gasol
11. Deron Williams
12. LaMarcus Aldridge
13. Russell Westbrook
14. Rajon Rondo
15. Kevin Love

Chronz
03-02-2011, 05:13 PM
here we go, more schtick coma. crap get really old.

Lol huh
YUP


I assume you are joking.
Location: CHICAGO?


maybe i've misunderstood some of you peoples post, but some of you are saying Rose may be MVP but hes not a top 5 player this season...umm, if he does win MVP doesnt that make him the #1 player this season? # justsaying

1. Rose
2. Howard
3 Lebron
4 Wade
5 Pau
6 Durant
7 Stat
8 Kobe
9 Dirk
10. Love
11. CP3
12. Melo
13 Pierce
14. Ginobili
15. Aldridge
Horrendous list


Are you kidding?

Look at the numbers kid. Seriously. I agree MVP does not denot a player as being the best OVERALL player, but if this season was the very first season ever, I would have Rose top 3 if not 1st.
LOL I dont think you know who I am if your asking me to consider the #'s, kid.

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 05:14 PM
When you have the best offense in the league(and one of the best ever) it could get you pretty far.

Thank you Sir, I had no idea you could see into the future.

I never claimed I can see the future but I do have a brain and an appreciation for the history of the game. Something you clearly don't have when it concerns you favourite team and player.

mdm692
03-02-2011, 05:16 PM
Do you have an excuse lined up for this year?

so amare was just there for the ride right??

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 05:17 PM
so amare was just there for the ride right??

According to the other poster you guys won 54 games without Amar'e so that is no excuse now thanks to him.

Raph12
03-02-2011, 05:20 PM
I can't believe how overrated this guy has become, thank god Chicago never drafted Lebron...

I'm Seriously
03-02-2011, 05:20 PM
I never claimed I can see the future but I do have a brain and an appreciation for the history of the game. Something you clearly don't have when it concerns you favourite team and player.

I don't have a brain? Coming from a person who believes the Showtime Lakers are the only team to run and win a championship, you've certainly destroyed my credibility. :rolleyes:

mdm692
03-02-2011, 05:21 PM
Please hold while I go think up my 102 baseless excuses as why my Cubs haven't one a World Series in forever.

Stop making excuses and face facts. The Suns are/were not going to win a Championship unless they started playing DEFENSE. All your excuses as baseless.

Wait though what is your excuse for this season? No Stoudemire?

its been televised do u live in a cave with your only connection to sports is psd.com?? Theyre not excuses idiot lol is just the cards the nba and fate dealt them but its true

I'm Seriously
03-02-2011, 05:23 PM
According to the other poster you guys won 54 games without Amar'e so that is no excuse now thanks to him.

The Suns winning 54 games without Amare is a fact.

But in 06 they also had prime Marion.

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 05:23 PM
I don't have a brain? Coming from a person who believes the Showtime Lakers are the only to run and win a championship, you've certainly destroyed my credibility. :rolleyes:

Name me other teams that run in the way the Lakers did and the Suns do now.

There have been high scoring teams that have one NBA Championships but none that RAN their offense in such a manner.

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 05:27 PM
its been televised do u live in a cave with your only connection to sports is psd.com?? Theyre not excuses idiot lol is just the cards the nba and fate dealt them but its true

Ok would you like me to tell you about the cards and fate that dealt with the other sporting franchises in the history of sports or just stay quiet.

I'm Seriously
03-02-2011, 05:28 PM
Name me other teams that run in the way the Lakers did and the Suns do now.

There have been high scoring teams that have one NBA Championships but none that RAN their offense in such a manner.

Literally every team in the 80's were faster than the SSOL Suns.

Let alone the current Suns, who hardly run at all.

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 05:30 PM
The Suns winning 54 games without Amare is a fact.

But in 06 they also had prime Marion.

You didn't state that earlier and I quote



And didn't the Suns win 54 games without Amare? While also getting just as far in the playoffs?

At no point did you credit Marion as being a key factor in winning.

Rocketsfan85
03-02-2011, 05:31 PM
1.Lebron
2.Howard
3.Wade
4.Kobe
5.Durant
6.Dirk
7.Amare
8.CP3
9.D-Will
10.Rondo
11.Melo
12.Rose
13.Pau
14.B.Griffin
15.Love
10.
9.

ackar
03-02-2011, 05:31 PM
I think overall Amare, Rose, Love, Westbrook should be ranked higher on some of these list.

chitown815
03-02-2011, 05:32 PM
i think espn is right on

1. Derrick Rose
Chicago Bulls G MIN FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK RPG AST PTS PER
57 37.8 .445 .347 .842 1.0 0.6 4.4 8.1 24.8 23.2
Rose has Miami's Juwan Howard's vote: "If you take LeBron off our team, I think we'll still be an above-average ballclub, because we'll still have Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh." (Last week: 2 | Team record: 41-17)
2. LeBron James
Miami Heat G MIN FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK RPG AST PTS PER
58 38.3 .488 .338 .758 1.6 0.6 7.5 7.2 26.2 26.7
Chris Bosh's, too: "Derrick has had a phenomenal season. Just looking at what he has done with the team and their record, I think I would give it to Derrick if I were a voter." (Last week: 1 | Team record: 43-17)
3. Dwight Howard
Orlando Magic G MIN FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK RPG AST PTS PER
58 36.8 .597 .000 .589 1.3 2.2 13.8 1.2 23.2 26.6
Patrick Ewing would choose Dwight: "If we were to lose Dwight, we'd be at the bottom of the barrel. He's the MVP on this team. He's the most important player on this team, and he's proven it night in and night out." (Last week: 4 | Team record: 38-22)
4. Dirk Nowitzki
Dallas Mavs G MIN FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK RPG AST PTS PER
50 34.2 .524 .427 .870 0.6 0.7 6.7 2.5 22.8 23.7
Doug Collins likes Dirk: "You have to consider him in the MVP voting in the league in terms of what he does for his team. When he wasn't playing they couldn't win." (Last week: 3 | Team record: 43-16)
5. Kobe Bryant
Los Angeles Lakers G MIN FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK RPG AST PTS PER
61 33.9 .460 .320 .828 1.2 0.1 5.3 4.9 25.1 24.2
Kobe is passing legend after legend on the all-time scoring list, knocking off Hayes, Havlicek, Wilkins, Robertson and Olajuwon to move into seventh in NBA history. (Last week: 6 | Team record: 42-19)
6. Kevin Durant
Oklahoma City Thunder G MIN FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK RPG AST PTS PER
54 39.6 .464 .335 .872 1.1 1.0 7.2 2.8 28.5 23.7
"I don't think I have a chance at [the MVP]," Durant said. "I think people like the new person. I think my year to try to win it was last year. I'm not new anymore." (Last week: 8 | Team record: 36-22)
7. Dwyane Wade
Miami Heat G MIN FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK RPG AST PTS PER
56 37.3 .500 .313 .731 1.4 0.9 6.9 4.4 25.5 25.2
After getting shut down by the Knicks, Wade bounced back to torch the Wizards for 41 points and followed that up with a 34-point outing in a road loss against the Bulls. (Last week: 7 | Team record: 43-17)
8. Rajon Rondo
Boston Celtics G MIN FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK RPG AST PTS PER
47 37.8 .508 .323 .544 2.4 0.1 4.5 12.1 10.9 18.2
On a team with four All-Stars, Rondo, who leads the league in assists and is second in steals, has emerged as the most valuable player on the East-leading Celtics. (Last week: 10 | Team record: 43-15)
9. Chris Paul
New Orleans Hornets G MIN FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK RPG AST PTS PER
61 35.9 .470 .423 .893 2.4 0.0 3.9 9.6 16.1 24.3
Paul is first in the NBA in steals, fourth in assists, fifth in PER and 11th in double-doubles for a Hornets team that has the third-stingiest defense (92.6 points per game). (Last week: 9 | Team record: 35-26)
10. LaMarcus Aldridge
Portland Blazers G MIN FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK RPG AST PTS PER
59 39.7 .499 .188 .789 1.2 1.3 9.1 2.1 22.4 22.1
The Blazers are playoff contenders and they have Aldridge to thank for it. Help is on the way. Portland traded for Gerald Wallace and Brandon Roy is back from injury. (Last week: NR | Team record: 33-26)

Yunqn
03-02-2011, 05:36 PM
wow how can anyone have a list of carmelo ahead of rose?

i swear people are sucking his **** too much now.. to me he's not even the best player on that team.. its amare.. and amare is playing wayy better defense in his career and carmelo is still below average on defense..and obvs im not hating if i think highly of another player on the same team..but if he was goina stay in denver and didnt have any rumors of going to the knicks.. no one would be saying hes above alot of the players you guys say he is now.. i can pull out alot of frauds on this site with this newly found carmelo bull****


every list that doesnt have lebron rose and dwight in the top 3 is wrong..


1. D.Rose
his jersey number says it all baby :) lmao no but seriously if you took rose off of the bulls and still had boozer & noah miss 50 games combined.. how high of a draft pick you think we would be getting? because unless you watch bulls basketball you wont understand how much he means to our team.. you just wont.. but for the ones who dont, you can see that hes the only player who avgs 25 & 8 with a chance to have the top seed out east and already have one of the better records in the leauge with those injuries..

2. lebron

3.dwight

4.dirk

5.amare.. this guy truly brought new york back.. no one else.. people should be thanking amare and the suns f.o for being cheap.. carmelo never wanted to be with the knicks before..and neither did paul.. so unless someone can prove that they would have been willing to come to here before by themselves is dead wrong and they need to stop lying.. im from new york and i know until he came here. new york beasketball was seriously almost non existent..

6.durant

7.wade

8.kobe

9.griffin

10.carmelo

11.paul ( probably tied or slightly above melo.. melo has better numbers but his impact isnt as much as paul's)

12.manu ( his impact along with paul is truly undervalued )

13.westbrook

14.love (once again.. the thread cleary reads this season )

15.rondo

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 05:36 PM
Literally every team in the 80's were faster than the SSOL Suns.

Let alone the current Suns, who hardly run at all.

How many of those teams won Championships?

The Celtics weren't fast paced but offensively efficient and effective. My 76ers certainly weren't high paced (ranked 15th in the league) and don't even get me on the Pistons. So who else other than the showtime Lakers are you really talking about?

Give me some videos some stats something.

I'm Seriously
03-02-2011, 05:36 PM
You didn't state that earlier and I quote



At no point did you credit Marion as being a key factor in winning.

I didn't credit any player as the reason they won 54 games, i simply stated the Suns won 54 games without Amare. And they didn't have a big man almost half of the season.

I'm Seriously
03-02-2011, 05:47 PM
How many of those teams won Championships?

The Celtics weren't fast paced but offensively efficient and effective. My 76ers certainly weren't high paced (ranked 15th in the league) and don't even get me on the Pistons. So who else other than the showtime Lakers are you really talking about?

Give me some videos some stats something.

The 1981 Celtics pace was 100.8

The 1984 Celtics pace was 99.7

The 1986 Celtics pace was 101.2

The 1983 76ers pace was 102.7

The 1989 Pistons pace was 95.5

The 2005 Suns pace was 95.9

The 2007 Suns pace was 95.6

The 2011 Suns pace is 94.2

And the Suns weren't just RUN,RUN,RUN, they were a very efficient half court offense.

And now almost all of there offense comes in the half court.

mdm692
03-02-2011, 05:47 PM
Ok would you like me to tell you about the cards and fate that dealt with the other sporting franchises in the history of sports or just stay quiet.

Were not talking about other franchises dont go off subject. But its fact go use google or youtube

BostonBro9
03-02-2011, 05:59 PM
1. Brian Scalabrine
2. Troy Murphy
3. Luke Harangody
4. Pat Burke
5. Marty Conlon
6. Jason Kidd
7. Bill Walton
8. Pat Riley
9. Chris Mullen
10. Rick Barry
11. Raef Larentz
12. Matt Bonner
13. Chris Quinn
14. Walter McCarthy
15. Shaquille O'neal




Oh... I thought it was the top 15 Irish Players

Cano4prez
03-02-2011, 06:04 PM
How is Rose #1 on anyones list..?

1. LeBron
2. Howard
3. Wade

All i'll do lol

Chronz
03-02-2011, 06:05 PM
Bunch of BS


This isnt the MVP ballot

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 06:07 PM
The 1981 Celtics pace was 100.8

The 1984 Celtics pace was 99.7

The 1986 Celtics pace was 101.2

The 1983 76ers pace was 102.7

The 1989 Pistons pace was 95.5

The 2005 Suns pace was 95.9

The 2007 Suns pace was 95.6

The 2011 Suns pace is 94.2

And the Suns weren't just RUN,RUN,RUN, they were a very efficient half court offense.

And now almost all of there offense comes in the half court.

And where did they rank relative to their counterparts?

I'll tell you

1980-81 Celtics-Pace: 100.8 (16th of 23)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1981.html

1982-83 76ers- Pace: 102.7 (15th of 23)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/1983.html

1983-94 Celtics- Pace: 99.7 (15th of 23)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1984.html

1985-86 Celtics- Pace: 101.2 (16th of 23)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1986.html

1988-89 Pistons- Pace: 95.5 (25th of 25)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/1989.html

1989-90 Pistons- Pace: 94.4 (26th of 27)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/1990.html

In every single season of the Steve Nash era in Phoenix the Suns have ranked in the upper third in the league in Pace. Pace has slowed over the years somewhat but so have a lot of other things. Come play-off time all these teams knew how to work well in a half court set as well as push the basketball when need be.

Next?

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 06:09 PM
Were not talking about other franchises dont go off subject. But its fact go use google or youtube

Its also a FACT that I could bring up reasons as to why other teams didn't make it further in the playoffs than the Suns over the years. It's also a FACT that if the Suns were committed to defense they'd actually stand a better chance come playoff time in all those marvelous seasons. Those are FACTS as well.

I'm Seriously
03-02-2011, 06:18 PM
And where did they rank relative to their counterparts?

I'll tell you

1980-81 Celtics-Pace: 100.8 (16th of 23)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1981.html

1982-83 76ers- Pace: 102.7 (15th of 23)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/1983.html

1983-94 Celtics- Pace: 99.7 (15th of 23)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1984.html

1985-86 Celtics- Pace: 101.2 (16th of 23)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1986.html

1988-89 Pistons- Pace: 95.5 (25th of 25)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/1989.html

1989-90 Pistons- Pace: 94.4 (26th of 27)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/1990.html

In every single season of the Steve Nash era in Phoenix the Suns have ranked in the upper third in the league in Pace. Pace has slowed over the years somewhat but so have a lot of other things. Come play-off time all these teams knew how to work well in a half court set as well as push the basketball when need be.

Next?

It doesn't matter were they ranked in there respective era's, almost every single team in the 80's ran. And almost all of those teams you mentioned were faster than the Suns.

Just because the Suns were one off the few teams that ran in the 2000's, doesn't change the fact that just about every team in the 80's were faster than them.

So did the Suns, there offense consistently stayed the same in the playoffs.

Why? because they had the greatest PNR PG ever.

NYYCowboys
03-02-2011, 06:22 PM
1. Lebron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Kevin Durant
4. Amare Stoudemire
5. Kevin Love
6. Derrick Rose
7. Dwyane Wade
8. Blake Griffin
9. Deron Williams
10. Russell Westbrook
11. Pau Gasol
12. Kobe Bryant
13. Carmelo Anthony
14. LaMarcus Aldridge
15. Monta Ellis

Not gonna be popular but purely based on stats of this year nothing else taken into account.

sargon21
03-02-2011, 06:23 PM
Lebron
Kobe
Wade
Durant
Dwight
Rose
Dirk
Dwill
CP3
Amare
Pau
Carmelo
Westbrook
Manu
Griffin

edit: i might have kobe too high lol, but i value winners and i see him as a big one

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 06:25 PM
It doesn't matter were they ranked in there respective era's, almost every single team in the 80's ran. And almost all of those teams you mentioned were faster than the Suns.

So did the Suns, there offense consistently stayed the same in the playoffs.

Why? because they had the greatest PNR PG ever.

Actually it does.

A lot has changed in the game over the years and the pace factor is a direct result of this. At that time in the NBA those teams were not viewed in the least bit as run and gun offenses. Now making the comparison one who is misinformed will say but they ran faster they were run and gun. That is totally incorrect. If you don't understand I think you should go to your regional library and brush up a bit on you NBA knowledge and understanding.

You know what the Suns weren't able to do that those other teams were. Make stops when need be.

And wait did you just say that Steve Nash is the greatest PNR PG ever? :speechless:

I am not debating that all I can say to you is start a thread so the masses can tell you exactly how WRONG you are.

The Jokemaker
03-02-2011, 06:25 PM
I love how no one is mentioning Zach Randolph. Averaging 20 and 13 and not even on the list. If you have Aldridge in your list, replace him with Randolph.

PLAYERS FAN
03-02-2011, 06:31 PM
I love how no one is mentioning Zach Randolph. Averaging 20 and 13 and not even on the list. If you have Aldridge in your list, replace him with Randolph.

Zach gettin that Monte Ellis treatment.:eyebrow:

Hawkeye15
03-02-2011, 06:37 PM
please ban PER from this site. I understand what you are trying to say, but god what a horrible stat. you have to no matter what factor in the intangibles such as leadership and such when saying who the best players are and you can't do that going off of PER or using stats period.

haha, I know you don't like it, but it actually helps your boy's case dude. It rewards shot creation. Its a stat that is useful when used with others. But in itself, it has some flaws.

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 06:39 PM
It doesn't matter were they ranked in there respective era's, almost every single team in the 80's ran. And almost all of those teams you mentioned were faster than the Suns.

Just because the Suns were one off the few teams that ran in the 2000's, doesn't change the fact that just about every team in the 80's were faster than them.

So did the Suns, there offense consistently stayed the same in the playoffs.

Why? because they had the greatest PNR PG ever.

I just realized something. Do you know what PACE FACTOR means?

Do you understand how it is calculated?

Do you understand the basic Mathematics in understanding why a middle of the pack team's pace would be faster that some of the upper third teams in today's NBA?

Do you understand that had those very same teams played in today's game that they'd rank right where they did back in 80s that they rank right around there in today's game?

Do you understand what you are talking about?

I'm Seriously
03-02-2011, 06:42 PM
Actually it does.

A lot has changed in the game over the years and the pace factor is a direct result of this. At that time in the NBA those teams were not viewed in the least bit as run and gun offenses. Now making the comparison one who is misinformed will say but they ran faster they were run and gun. That is totally incorrect. If you don't understand I think you should go to your regional library and brush up a bit on you NBA knowledge and understanding.

You know what the Suns weren't able to do that those other teams were. Make stops when need be.

And wait did you just say that Steve Nash is the greatest PNR PG ever? :speechless:

I am not debating that all I can say to you is start a thread so the masses can tell you exactly how WRONG you are.

You can ignore the statistical facts that almost all teams in the 80's were faster than thr SSOL Suns all you want, doesn't mean it's not true.

It's true, no PG has ever ran the PNR as good as Nash.

Obvous bait is obvious.

Hawkeye15
03-02-2011, 06:45 PM
There's no excuse for having CP3 under Rose. I love Rose, but CP3 is 10x the player Drose is. He can do literally everything better than Rose except floaters(kid has the best floaters in the game).

1. Lebron
2. Dwight
3. Wade
4. Kobe
5. CP3
6. Durant
7. Dirk
8. Rose
9. Amare
10. Melo
11. Dwill
12. Griffen
13. Westbrook
14. Gasol
15. Rondo

12-15 are kind of opinionated. Like LMA K-love and others. Still think Love is the most overrated player in the league, I mean it most be hard getting rebounds when you team shoots 30% every game. 14 wins, 14 wins.

first off, may want to get your facts straight. The Wolves are a top 8 rebound team. Love leads the NBA in rebound RATE. So you think he is overrated? What about the 21 ppg on 60% TS? How about him leading the entire NBA in offensive win shares (8.2)? Was Team USA a roster full of nobodies? No? So how did he completely clean up the glass in FIBA? Has there ever been a player who is going to win a rebounding title hit 42% from 3 and 87% from the line? No? Then how is he overrated? Oh, that's right, because he plays on the youngest team in the NBA with 11 new faces to start the year, so you penalize him for team success.

Go ahead and reply, but get your information straight, or it will be a waste of your time.

ManRam
03-02-2011, 06:47 PM
Simply put, there is no way you can look at the stats and conclude Rose is a top 5 player. Yes, there is more than just stats, but they are telling. In terms of advanced stats, he's 17th in WS (14th per/48), he doesn't crack the top 20 in ORtg DRtg, 12th in PER, 8th in AST%, and that's really it in terms of the advanced stats. His per game stats look better due to his high usage rate and minutes. His shooting percentages really are underwhelming. If the Bulls weren't significantly better this year, and some if it is him (most of it is their league best defense), he wouldn't be on anyone's top 5 list...because simply put, he's not a top 5 player. The success of the Bulls really is boosting his stock. LeBron, Wade, Kobe, Dwight, Durant, and Dirk are all better players...and I'd still take Deron or Paul over him if starting a team.

And I don't get why it's confusing as to how he can be the MVP but not a top 5 player. MVP does in no way mean best player award. People are giving it to Rose for reasons such as "LeBron plays with Wade and Bosh", "Dwight's record is worse than last year's", "Kobe's team is underwhelming" and so on...very little of it has to do with INDIVIDUAL play.

PLAYERS FAN
03-02-2011, 06:52 PM
please ban PER from this site. I understand what you are trying to say, but god what a horrible stat. you have to no matter what factor in the intangibles such as leadership and such when saying who the best players are and you can't do that going off of PER or using stats period.

:worthy:Lebron is the second greatest player of all time! Thanks to :worthy: "PER"

Cano4prez
03-02-2011, 06:54 PM
Simply put, there is no way you can look at the stats and conclude Rose is a top 5 player. Yes, there is more than just stats, but they are telling. In terms of advanced stats, he's 17th in WS (14th per/48), he doesn't crack the top 20 in ORtg DRtg, 12th in PER, 8th in AST%, and that's really it in terms of the advanced stats. His per game stats look better due to his high usage rate and minutes. His shooting percentages really are underwhelming. If the Bulls weren't significantly better this year, and some if it is him (most of it is their league best defense), he wouldn't be on anyone's top 5 list...because simply put, he's not a top 5 player. The success of the Bulls really is boosting his stock. LeBron, Wade, Kobe, Dwight, Durant, and Dirk are all better players...and I'd still take Deron or Paul over him if starting a team.

And I don't get why it's confusing as to how he can be the MVP but not a top 5 player. MVP does in no way mean best player award. People are giving it to Rose for reasons such as "LeBron plays with Wade and Bosh", "Dwight's record is worse than last year's", "Kobe's team is underwhelming" and so on...very little of it has to do with INDIVIDUAL play.

This. A reasonable post in the NBA forum :speechless:

Hustlenomics
03-02-2011, 06:59 PM
I can't believe how overrated this guy has become, thank god Chicago never drafted Lebron...

you talking about Derrick Rose?

beardown78
03-02-2011, 07:05 PM
If you're basing the top 15 off of this year alone then Rose is A top 5 player easily. It's pretty laughable that Paul is ranked ahead of Rose on alot of list seeing statistically he's having A down year. And please dont use the excuse about CP3 playing in the western conference either because it holds no weight anymore. I know know one game means nothing but 7 Pts and 4 assist in a loss to the Raptors while being dominated by Jose Calderon doesn't scream top 5 let alone top 10 player to me. Maybe Paul is hampered by an injury this year and he'll return to form next year but based off this year alone CP3 is borderline top 15

beardown78
03-02-2011, 07:06 PM
This. A reasonable post in the NBA forum :speechless:

Great post

Jewelz0376
03-02-2011, 07:07 PM
i dont feel like doing top 15....so i'll do top 5 right off the top of my head

1) Lebron
2) d12
3) kobe
4) wade
5) rose

I was trying to decide between rose,dwill, and cp3 for 5...but going off of this season only rose has to go ahead of those two..

gbrl
03-02-2011, 07:10 PM
i think espn is right on

1. Derrick Rose
Chicago Bulls G MIN FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK RPG AST PTS PER
57 37.8 .445 .347 .842 1.0 0.6 4.4 8.1 24.8 23.2
Rose has Miami's Juwan Howard's vote: "If you take LeBron off our team, I think we'll still be an above-average ballclub, because we'll still have Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh." (Last week: 2 | Team record: 41-17)
2. LeBron James
Miami Heat G MIN FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK RPG AST PTS PER
58 38.3 .488 .338 .758 1.6 0.6 7.5 7.2 26.2 26.7
Chris Bosh's, too: "Derrick has had a phenomenal season. Just looking at what he has done with the team and their record, I think I would give it to Derrick if I were a voter." (Last week: 1 | Team record: 43-17)
3. Dwight Howard
Orlando Magic G MIN FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK RPG AST PTS PER
58 36.8 .597 .000 .589 1.3 2.2 13.8 1.2 23.2 26.6
Patrick Ewing would choose Dwight: "If we were to lose Dwight, we'd be at the bottom of the barrel. He's the MVP on this team. He's the most important player on this team, and he's proven it night in and night out." (Last week: 4 | Team record: 38-22)
4. Dirk Nowitzki
Dallas Mavs G MIN FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK RPG AST PTS PER
50 34.2 .524 .427 .870 0.6 0.7 6.7 2.5 22.8 23.7
Doug Collins likes Dirk: "You have to consider him in the MVP voting in the league in terms of what he does for his team. When he wasn't playing they couldn't win." (Last week: 3 | Team record: 43-16)
5. Kobe Bryant
Los Angeles Lakers G MIN FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK RPG AST PTS PER
61 33.9 .460 .320 .828 1.2 0.1 5.3 4.9 25.1 24.2
Kobe is passing legend after legend on the all-time scoring list, knocking off Hayes, Havlicek, Wilkins, Robertson and Olajuwon to move into seventh in NBA history. (Last week: 6 | Team record: 42-19)
6. Kevin Durant
Oklahoma City Thunder G MIN FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK RPG AST PTS PER
54 39.6 .464 .335 .872 1.1 1.0 7.2 2.8 28.5 23.7
"I don't think I have a chance at [the MVP]," Durant said. "I think people like the new person. I think my year to try to win it was last year. I'm not new anymore." (Last week: 8 | Team record: 36-22)
7. Dwyane Wade
Miami Heat G MIN FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK RPG AST PTS PER
56 37.3 .500 .313 .731 1.4 0.9 6.9 4.4 25.5 25.2
After getting shut down by the Knicks, Wade bounced back to torch the Wizards for 41 points and followed that up with a 34-point outing in a road loss against the Bulls. (Last week: 7 | Team record: 43-17)
8. Rajon Rondo
Boston Celtics G MIN FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK RPG AST PTS PER
47 37.8 .508 .323 .544 2.4 0.1 4.5 12.1 10.9 18.2
On a team with four All-Stars, Rondo, who leads the league in assists and is second in steals, has emerged as the most valuable player on the East-leading Celtics. (Last week: 10 | Team record: 43-15)
9. Chris Paul
New Orleans Hornets G MIN FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK RPG AST PTS PER
61 35.9 .470 .423 .893 2.4 0.0 3.9 9.6 16.1 24.3
Paul is first in the NBA in steals, fourth in assists, fifth in PER and 11th in double-doubles for a Hornets team that has the third-stingiest defense (92.6 points per game). (Last week: 9 | Team record: 35-26)
10. LaMarcus Aldridge
Portland Blazers G MIN FG% 3P% FT% STL BLK RPG AST PTS PER
59 39.7 .499 .188 .789 1.2 1.3 9.1 2.1 22.4 22.1
The Blazers are playoff contenders and they have Aldridge to thank for it. Help is on the way. Portland traded for Gerald Wallace and Brandon Roy is back from injury. (Last week: NR | Team record: 33-26)

of course you prefer this one

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 07:10 PM
You can ignore the statistical facts that almost all teams in the 80's were faster than thr SSOL Suns all you want, doesn't mean it's not true.

It's true, no PG has ever ran the PNR as good as Nash.

Obvous bait is obvious.

I am doing quite the opposite.

I am embracing and understanding these very numbers. You on the other hand lack the basic comprehension of the facts.

I also understand that the faster paced teams not named the showtime lakers hand no championship sucess. Something which you are yet to grasp.
YES those teams played at a higher pace to the Suns but what was the reasoning behind that.

The game was a higher pace. Do you not understand that? That however doesn't mean that the better teams (not named LA Lakers) played a run and gun style of basketball.

Is this really so hard for you to understand?

Raph12
03-02-2011, 07:11 PM
you talking about Derrick Rose?

Yup... To claim he's more deserving than Dwight and Lebron for MVP is one thing, but now guys got him in the Top 5, Top 3 and as the best player in the league for this season.

I think I need to find a new forum with less homer fans :pity:

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 07:13 PM
Yup... To claim he's more deserving than Dwight and Lebron for MVP is one thing, but now guys got him in the Top 5, Top 3 and as the best player in the league for this season.

I think I need to find a new forum with less homer fans :pity:

Some are saying that he is indeed the best player in the NBA. :speechless:

Jewelz0376
03-02-2011, 07:19 PM
Yup... To claim he's more deserving than Dwight and Lebron for MVP is one thing, but now guys got him in the Top 5, Top 3 and as the best player in the league for this season.

I think I need to find a new forum with less homer fans :pity:

I really don't think its ridiculous as some are saying... If some1 had never watched the nba until this season...and this was their very first season watching the nba...it's not crazy to think they would have Drose in the top 5...

Oldmantrash
03-02-2011, 07:19 PM
wow how can anyone have a list of carmelo ahead of rose?

i swear people are sucking his **** too much now.. to me he's not even the best player on that team.. its amare.. and amare is playing wayy better defense in his career and carmelo is still below average on defense..and obvs im not hating if i think highly of another player on the same team..but if he was goina stay in denver and didnt have any rumors of going to the knicks.. no one would be saying hes above alot of the players you guys say he is now.. i can pull out alot of frauds on this site with this newly found carmelo bull****


every list that doesnt have lebron rose and dwight in the top 3 is wrong..



1. D.Rose
his jersey number says it all baby :) lmao no but seriously if you took rose off of the bulls and still had boozer & noah miss 50 games combined.. how high of a draft pick you think we would be getting? because unless you watch bulls basketball you wont understand how much he means to our team.. you just wont.. but for the ones who dont, you can see that hes the only player who avgs 25 & 8 with a chance to have the top seed out east and already have one of the better records in the leauge with those injuries..

2. lebron

3.dwight

4.dirk

5.amare.. this guy truly brought new york back.. no one else.. people should be thanking amare and the suns f.o for being cheap.. carmelo never wanted to be with the knicks before..and neither did paul.. so unless someone can prove that they would have been willing to come to here before by themselves is dead wrong and they need to stop lying.. im from new york and i know until he came here. new york beasketball was seriously almost non existent..

6.durant

7.wade

8.kobe

9.griffin

10.carmelo

11.paul ( probably tied or slightly above melo.. melo has better numbers but his impact isnt as much as paul's)

12.manu ( his impact along with paul is truly undervalued )

13.westbrook

14.love (once again.. the thread cleary reads this season )

15.rondo

Rose is not top 3,and how can you have a list and not have Deron Williams in the top 15.
Only guy in the league with over 20 poins and 9 assisis.9.9,

NORMeaga
03-02-2011, 07:25 PM
by no means am i offended if you dont agree with my list...i'm happy to see a good debate on here...most threads like this turn to trash quick...going by the thread title "...JUST THIS SEASON" i honestly think Rose is in the top 3!

Raph12
03-02-2011, 07:29 PM
I really don't think its ridiculous as some are saying... If some1 had never watched the nba until this season...and this was their very first season watching the nba...it's not crazy to think they would have Drose in the top 5...

That would be the only way I'd ever consider Rose a Top 5 player for this season, if I didn't know any better.

Swashcuff
03-02-2011, 07:31 PM
I really don't think its ridiculous as some are saying... If some1 had never watched the nba until this season...and this was their very first season watching the nba...it's not crazy to think they would have Drose in the top 5...

I could see your reasoning there.

ks32
03-02-2011, 07:47 PM
1. Lebron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Kevin Durant
4. Amare Stoudemire
5. Kevin Love
6. Derrick Rose
7. Dwyane Wade
8. Blake Griffin
9. Deron Williams
10. Russell Westbrook
11. Pau Gasol
12. Kobe Bryant
13. Carmelo Anthony
14. LaMarcus Aldridge
15. Monta Ellis

Not gonna be popular but purely based on stats of this year nothing else taken into account.

great list considering we're only counting this season.

Avenged
03-02-2011, 08:31 PM
Agreed rzzza. Some people are confusing MVP to best player and I am also surprised how many people have rose in their top ten.

He is a top 10 player, I don't care what anyone says.

Chronz
03-02-2011, 09:57 PM
Players who are without a doubt superior to Rose include

Bron
Wade
Kobe
Dwight
Durant
CP3
Dirk
Pau

Guys who are probably better but arguably his equal
Amare, Melo, Westbrook

Duncan and Manu are right there too

Hawkeye15
03-02-2011, 10:17 PM
Players who are without a doubt superior to Rose include

Bron
Wade
Kobe
Dwight
Durant
CP3
Dirk
Pau

Guys who are probably better but arguably his equal
Amare, Melo, Westbrook

Duncan and Manu are right there too

where do you have Love? What are your top 15?

C-Style
03-03-2011, 12:36 AM
1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Kevin Durant
6. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Chris Paul
8. Derrick Rose
9. Amar'e Stoudemire
10. Carmelo Anthony
11. Blake Griffin
12. Deron Williams
13. Pau Gasol
14. Kevin Love
15. Rajon Rondo
:clap:

im ur fatha
03-03-2011, 12:48 AM
Rose tops it...

valade16
03-03-2011, 12:52 AM
That would be the only way I'd ever consider Rose a Top 5 player for this season, if I didn't know any better.

Doesn't that show your clearly not judging the players based on this year only?!

At least you admitted your bias :)

RZZZA
03-03-2011, 12:53 AM
Players who are without a doubt superior to Rose include

Bron
Wade
Kobe
Dwight
Durant
CP3
Dirk
Pau

Guys who are probably better but arguably his equal
Amare, Melo, Westbrook

Duncan and Manu are right there too


CP3? The thread is about this season. CP3 has been bothered by a knee injury all season and seems like he doesn't even want to be in NO any more. He's not the old CP3. theyre 35-28 which is meh and are on a 3 game losing streak

Hustlenomics
03-03-2011, 12:55 AM
Yup... To claim he's more deserving than Dwight and Lebron for MVP is one thing, but now guys got him in the Top 5, Top 3 and as the best player in the league for this season.

I think I need to find a new forum with less homer fans :pity:

true

nickdymez
03-03-2011, 12:56 AM
I think most people here watch to much espn

Raph12
03-03-2011, 01:37 AM
Players who are without a doubt superior to Rose include

Bron
Wade
Kobe
Dwight
Durant
CP3
Dirk
Pau

Guys who are probably better but arguably his equal
Amare, Melo, Westbrook

Duncan and Manu are right there too

Sounds good to me


Doesn't that show your clearly not judging the players based on this year only?!

At least you admitted your bias :)

No he said if someone who'd never watched basketball watchs it for the first time this season... I used to think guys like Nique, AI, etc were super elite players as well when I watched them as a kid, but as you get older, wiser and more experienced by watching and looking at stats, you can better analyze the game and its players.

Duncan = Donkey
03-03-2011, 02:55 AM
SO many people without Nash in thier top 15. Brainwashed by ESPN and the media as usual.

Swashcuff
03-03-2011, 09:02 AM
CP3? The thread is about this season. CP3 has been bothered by a knee injury all season and seems like he doesn't even want to be in NO any more. He's not the old CP3. theyre 35-28 which is meh and are on a 3 game losing streak

I can tell by this statement that you haven't been watching the Hornets play.

Dude stop looking at basic stats and forming a misinformed opinion based on stuff that isn't true. He has since cooled from his early start but to begin the season he was as good as any PG in the game. He is the same player just asked to play a different role.

magichatnumber9
03-03-2011, 09:17 AM
I think it's funny that some of you don't understand the question and just got straight to being disgruntled homers.

Lakers_Saints
03-03-2011, 09:20 AM
300. Chris Bosh lol.

uwish1127
03-03-2011, 09:49 AM
If Billups keeps up his play as a Knick he'd easily be a top 20

Chronz
03-03-2011, 07:31 PM
CP3? The thread is about this season. CP3 has been bothered by a knee injury all season and seems like he doesn't even want to be in NO any more. He's not the old CP3. theyre 35-28 which is meh and are on a 3 game losing streak

I never said he was the old CP3, THIS CP3 may not be as assertive as years prior but hes still the best PG in the game. I know their record, I knew it when I made the list.

Tony_Starks
03-03-2011, 07:45 PM
Dwight
Lebron
Durant
Kobe
Rose
Wade
Dirk
Gasol
Rondo
CP3
Griffin
Aldridge
Amare
DWilliams
Ginobli

More-Than-Most
03-03-2011, 07:59 PM
Why is STEVE NASH NOT on the list

16Ppg 11.3 apg
Shooting 40-50-90 for the 5th time in his career(no one comes close in history)
Leads ALL guards in double doubles and games with 15pts 15asst
Leads PGS in fg%
I can keep going on on. . . All of this with no stoudemire an old *** VC and bunch of role players



BTW HE IS 37 YRS OLD!!!!

Agreed. People underrate him severely considering he is the only reason why the Suns are still fighting for a playoff spot. How people have rose or westbrook over him considering how good he has been this year with the lack of supporting cast he has is a bit strange.

daricoliver
03-03-2011, 08:28 PM
How people have rose or westbrook over him considering how good he has been this year with the lack of supporting cast he has is a bit strange.

Steve Nash is still a very good offensive point guard, and if you only look at the offensive side, we could have an actual argument about this. However, if you look at the whole picture, how can you just throw defense out of the argument. You can't. This was one of the big knocks on Rose last year and he improved dramatically and why he is in the equation this year. Rose only averages 3 assists less per game but scores almost 10 more points a game and at the same time plays much better defense. Westbrook averages a point or two less than Rose and the same amount of assists. There is nothing strange about asserting that both Rose and Westbrook are better players. They are. Steve Nash is still a great player, but there has definitely been a changing of the guard.

More-Than-Most
03-03-2011, 08:45 PM
Steve Nash is still a very good offensive point guard, and if you only look at the offensive side, we could have an actual argument about this. However, if you look at the whole picture, how can you just throw defense out of the argument. You can't. This was one of the big knocks on Rose last year and he improved dramatically and why he is in the equation this year. Rose only averages 3 assists less per game but scores almost 10 more points a game and at the same time plays much better defense. Westbrook averages a point or two less than Rose and the same amount of assists. There is nothing strange about asserting that both Rose and Westbrook are better players. They are. Steve Nash is still a great player, but there has definitely been a changing of the guard.

Nash is bad defensively but he is nowhere near as horrible as everyone makes him out to be. Also you are just going by PPG and assists but negate his shooting ability that is by far the best in the league. Nash is a great player playing great on a bad team where players have been traded in and out all year long. Also on top of that Nash has been a tiny bit less careless with the ball than both Rondo and westbrook this season.

People seem to push Nash aside because of his age but he has been better this season after losing his best play makers in amare and Richardson. I can live with Nash not being a top 15 player in the nba... The thing that bothers me is people are putting 4-5 point guards above him while doing so.

cubs0707
03-03-2011, 08:56 PM
1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Kevin Durant
6. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Chris Paul
8. Derrick Rose9. Amar'e Stoudemire
10. Carmelo Anthony
11. Blake Griffin
12. Deron Williams
13. Pau Gasol
14. Kevin Love
15. Rajon Rondo

:facepalm:

Bruno
03-03-2011, 09:23 PM
1. Dwight Howard (2nd in PER, 1st in WS/48, 1st defensive WS)
2. LBJ
3. Cp3
4. Wade
5. Kobe

6. Durant
7. Dirk
8. Love
9. Rose
10. Gasol

11. Amare
12. Manu
13. KG
14. Griffin
15. D-Will

Snubs: Carmelo (isn't top 20 in PER, offensive WS or WS/48+ team turmoil/being dealt) Pierce, Westbrook, Horford, Aldridge, Nash, Kevin Martin, T. Chandler, Rondo, Josh Smith, Odom, Bogut, Randolph.

CowboysKB24
03-03-2011, 11:06 PM
This is always hard, but here it goes

1.) Dwight Howard; his offense has gotten much better this year and no player compares to his impact on both sides of the ball, none.
2.) LBJ
3.) Durant
4.) Wade
5.) Derrick Rose
6.) Amar'e
7.) Carmelo
8.) Kobe
9.) Dirk
10.) Blake Griffen
11.) Kevin Love
12.) Deron Williams
13.) Westbrook
14.) Rondo
15.) LaMarcus Aldridge

el_primo_nano
03-03-2011, 11:08 PM
No specific order
Derrick Rose
Dwight Howard
Kevin Durant
Russel Westbrook
Kevin Love
Lebron James
Dwayne Wade
Amare Stoudemire
Carmelo Anthony
Kobe Bryant
Pau Gasol
Blake Griffin
Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Dirk
Tim Duncan

CowboysKB24
03-03-2011, 11:11 PM
Players who are without a doubt superior to Rose include

Bron
Wade
Kobe
Dwight
Durant
CP3
Dirk
Pau

Guys who are probably better but arguably his equal
Amare, Melo, Westbrook

Duncan and Manu are right there too

We are talking about this season and he is having a hell of a year. I got him at 5 in my rankings. He and Dwight are leading the MVP right now. It is hard to argue against him. He has the numbers and his team is 3rd in the East. Bulls didn't have Noah for 30 games and Boozer for 18 games and they are still 3rd and close to the Heat and Celtics.

DaBear
03-03-2011, 11:58 PM
CP3 is so overrated. Superior to Rose my ***.

BklynKnicks3
03-04-2011, 01:08 AM
1) Kobe
2) Lebron
3) Wade
4) Melo
5) durant
6) d12
7)cp3
8)d rose
9) Dwill
10) Amare
11) Dirk
12) Manu
13) Blake
14) Gasol
15) Love

Chronz
03-04-2011, 02:56 AM
We are talking about this season and he is having a hell of a year. I got him at 5 in my rankings. He and Dwight are leading the MVP right now. It is hard to argue against him. He has the numbers and his team is 3rd in the East. Bulls didn't have Noah for 30 games and Boozer for 18 games and they are still 3rd and close to the Heat and Celtics.

I know we're talking about this season, its why hes even in consideration, if this were based on last season or the past 3 years Rose wouldnt be in the discussion.

Its actually pretty easy to argue against him, MVP isnt the same as best players in the game. The MVP has no clear cut criteria, best players is cut and dry about the individual, his production and impact matter most.

Duncan = Donkey
03-04-2011, 03:37 AM
LOL, blake griffin better than Nash. you people are living in a dream world. He is playing just as good as his MVP years. not even coming back to this thread. too many people who just say what espn tells them too.

Bruno
03-04-2011, 04:23 AM
LOL, blake griffin better than Nash. you people are living in a dream world. He is playing just as good as his MVP years. not even coming back to this thread. too many people who just say what espn tells them too.

Not quite. His 2010-2011 PER, WS/48, TS%, and 3 point % are all down in comparison to his MVP years. But his number are still great, no doubt. How about his defense?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nashst01.html

Biggest difference being team success. The Suns finished as the 2nd seat out west during his MVP years, this year they are 9th.

CowboysKB24
03-04-2011, 04:28 AM
LOL, blake griffin better than Nash. you people are living in a dream world. He is playing just as good as his MVP years. not even coming back to this thread. too many people who just say what espn tells them too.

We are talking about this season. Blake Griffin is better than Nash right now. He is a freak.

Nash is no longer a top 15 player in the league.

Duncan = Donkey
03-04-2011, 05:06 AM
Not quite. His 2010-2011 PER, WS/48, TS%, and 3 point % are all down in comparison to his MVP years. But his number are still great, no doubt. How about his defense?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nashst01.html

Biggest difference being team success. The Suns finished as the 2nd seat out west during his MVP years, this year they are 9th.

Maybe not as great as his MVP years, but still very similar.

His defense is the same as it always has been. Not Great, but not as bad as everyone makes him out to be.

But there is no way Griffin is better than Nash. Nash much better offensive player and about as bad as each other in defense. Its just that people listen to the media hype and just regurgitate what the 'experts' say. Some people even have Westbrook better than Nash, LOL.

Duncan = Donkey
03-04-2011, 05:10 AM
We are talking about this season. Blake Griffin is better than Nash right now. He is a freak.

Nash is no longer a top 15 player in the league.

Yer he is an athletic Freak, he has very good talent around him (more than nash) yet the best he can do is lead them to a 22-40 record, top 15 player my ***. No way he is better than Nash.

sunsfan88
03-04-2011, 05:11 AM
This is always hard, but here it goes

1.) Dwight Howard; his offense has gotten much better this year and no player compares to his impact on both sides of the ball, none.
2.) LBJ
3.) Durant
4.) Wade
5.) Derrick Rose
6.) Amar'e
7.) Carmelo
8.) Kobe
9.) Dirk
10.) Blake Griffen
11.) Kevin Love
12.) Deron Williams
13.) Westbrook
14.) Rondo
15.) LaMarcus Aldridge

Take Rondo & Westbrook out, add Nash & Horford and we have the same list.

Duncan = Donkey
03-04-2011, 05:12 AM
We are talking about this season. Blake Griffin is better than Nash right now. He is a freak.

Nash is no longer a top 15 player in the league.

I just noticed you had kevin Love and L. Aldridge in your top 15, now i'm not sure if you are being serious or not or just putting random players in your list.:confused:

Iggz53
03-04-2011, 05:38 AM
Really disgusted that almost nobody put Ginobili on their list. He's easily Top 10 imo, props to the few that included him.

i.got.the.nutz
03-04-2011, 07:15 AM
Really disgusted that almost nobody put Ginobili on their list. He's easily Top 10 imo, props to the few that included him.

I'm a big Ginobili fan, but :facepalm:.

Hawkeye15
03-04-2011, 10:46 AM
1. Dwight Howard (2nd in PER, 1st in WS/48, 1st defensive WS)
2. LBJ
3. Cp3
4. Wade
5. Kobe

6. Durant
7. Dirk
8. Love9. Rose
10. Gasol

11. Amare
12. Manu
13. KG
14. Griffin
15. D-Will

Snubs: Carmelo (isn't top 20 in PER, offensive WS or WS/48+ team turmoil/being dealt) Pierce, Westbrook, Horford, Aldridge, Nash, Kevin Martin, T. Chandler, Rondo, Josh Smith, Odom, Bogut, Randolph.


Love, top 8? I would let you date my sister

D-Leethal
03-04-2011, 11:47 AM
Lamarcus Aldridge has got to make that list that is all I know

CowboysKB24
03-04-2011, 02:16 PM
I just noticed you had kevin Love and L. Aldridge in your top 15, now i'm not sure if you are being serious or not or just putting random players in your list.:confused:

:facepalm:

Based on this season how is Kevin Love not a top 15 player? The guy is developed and has all around talent. He can shoot, score down low, and is the best rebounder in the game. He is a decent passer. Hell, the only thing this guy can't do is drive to the basket. What season have you been watching?

You can argue Aldridge, but you can't argue Love. Based on this season Adridge could be in the top 15. He is averaging 23 and 12, which is among the league leaders. His team is playing well with out Roy because of him.

Iggz53
03-04-2011, 03:12 PM
I'm a big Ginobili fan, but :facepalm:.

How convincing. But I suppose you're right, 21 ppg with a 58% ts%, 27% ast%, and outstanding defense is probably nothing.

i.got.the.nutz
03-04-2011, 04:56 PM
How convincing. But I suppose you're right, 21 ppg with a 58% ts%, 27% ast%, and outstanding defense is probably nothing.

Please name your top ten then. Also, if I bumped up everyone's ppg by 3 points, I could make them look a whole lot better too.

JordansBulls
03-04-2011, 05:03 PM
1. Dwight Howard (2nd in PER, 1st in WS/48, 1st defensive WS)
2. LBJ
3. Cp3
4. Wade
5. Kobe

6. Durant
7. Dirk
8. Love
9. Rose
10. Gasol

11. Amare
12. Manu
13. KG
14. Griffin
15. D-Will

Snubs: Carmelo (isn't top 20 in PER, offensive WS or WS/48+ team turmoil/being dealt) Pierce, Westbrook, Horford, Aldridge, Nash, Kevin Martin, T. Chandler, Rondo, Josh Smith, Odom, Bogut, Randolph.

Probably the best list out there. I too am thinking Dwight could be considered the best based off of this season as well.

Iggz53
03-04-2011, 05:15 PM
Please name your top ten then. Also, if I bumped up everyone's ppg by 3 points, I could make them look a whole lot better too.

You're right, I was looking at PPer36 minutes, sorry should have specified. And rightfully so, considering Manu only plays 30 mpg. The other numbers remain the same though. Mine would be:

Dwyane Wade
LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Dwight Howard
Dirk Nowitzki
Deron Williams
Manu Ginobili
Paul Pierce

Iggz53
03-04-2011, 05:16 PM
Probably the best list out there. I too am thinking Dwight could be considered the best based off of this season as well.

Coming around on Melo? :D

DaBUU
03-04-2011, 05:26 PM
alright im starting to buy into some these lists.

Duncan = Donkey
03-04-2011, 06:23 PM
:facepalm:

Based on this season how is Kevin Love not a top 15 player? The guy is developed and has all around talent. He can shoot, score down low, and is the best rebounder in the game. He is a decent passer. Hell, the only thing this guy can't do is drive to the basket. What season have you been watching?

You can argue Aldridge, but you can't argue Love. Based on this season Adridge could be in the top 15. He is averaging 23 and 12, which is among the league leaders. His team is playing well with out Roy because of him.

Its more the fact people have them over a two time MVP PG still playing at an elite level, while playing with no other stars on his team and still leading them to a record above .500.

Kevin Love is putting up nice numbers but he aint leading his team anywhere, i like him alot but he just isn't close to the player Nash is.

Bruno
03-04-2011, 06:53 PM
Love, top 8? I would let you date my sister

:laugh2: There's just no arguing around those numbers. Top 5 in WS and PER, posting individual game numbers that haven't been posted for 30 years, 50ish? straight double-doubles? His TS% is nearly .600, ect.


Probably the best list out there. I too am thinking Dwight could be considered the best based off of this season as well.

I was kinda debating it for a while but he's been great this season. Especially since the Magic made those two trades; Howards numbers have been off the charts. When the guy is scoring 25 a night like he has been recently, and he still rebounding and controlling the defensive paint in a dominant fashion, he has a strong argument for the top spot, IMO.

valade16
03-04-2011, 07:12 PM
:facepalm:

Based on this season how is Kevin Love not a top 15 player? The guy is developed and has all around talent. He can shoot, score down low, and is the best rebounder in the game. He is a decent passer. Hell, the only thing this guy can't do is drive to the basket. What season have you been watching?

You can argue Aldridge, but you can't argue Love. Based on this season Adridge could be in the top 15. He is averaging 23 and 12, which is among the league leaders. His team is playing well with out Roy because of him.

The only thing he can't do is drive? You must only care about one half of the game. Ever heard of defense? Yeah, Love can't play D at all...

He's top 15 but your making him sound like a superstar, which he clearly isn't...

Shammyguy3
03-04-2011, 07:17 PM
1. Lebron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Kevin Durant
5. Chris Paul
6. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Manu Ginobili
8. Deron Williams
9. Paul Pierce
10. Derrick Rose
11. Pau Gasol
12. Steve Nash
13. Blake Griffin
14. Al Horford
15. Kevin Love
16. Amare Stoudemire