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LOOTERX9
03-01-2011, 01:36 AM
It's been a long time since a lead guy (PG) on a title team won the title (isaiah Thomas). Normally Top wing players along with a top bigman has been winning NBA title over past 20 years. So can A team finally win championship with a scoring PG as their lead guy?

Chitownhero14
03-01-2011, 01:41 AM
Yes very much so Magic, Isiah, Walt Fraizer, OScar Robertson, Jerry frickin West.

And there are plenty of almosts such as Stockton, Kidd, Payton, etc.

PG's that are dynamic and the leader, but have a team built around them such as Derrick Rose will get a championship, it happens all the time in history and history always repeats itself.

ChI_ShIzzLe
03-01-2011, 01:42 AM
You get PWNED by a mod for creating a bait thread, and now you just turn the same topic into a question when you're just gonna bait Bulls fans anyways, nice try :facepalm:

abe_froman
03-01-2011, 01:42 AM
why not? no rule against it.

and your not looking at the complete teams that have won titles in that span since the pistons.i mean seriously you shouldnt take away from the 90's and say well scoring pg's cant win they didnt during that decade...i mean having mj on a team will/did keep every team,no matter how it was constructed,no matter what type of player was leading them from winning rings.

i mean who the could have beaten the laker dynasty? many teams with top wings,big men failed to knock them off.so where are the theories concerning that.

what about assist heavy pg's? stockton has no rings,kidd doesnt,cp3? nope,not nash either.where are the questions "can you win a title with assist heavy pg's?"

you have to look at the teams that won,and the teams they faced.the truth is there is no one way to win,no apply all answer...and its sad so many think there is,want one,only wanting to deal with it

D1JM
03-01-2011, 01:47 AM
i dont see why not

Sadds The Gr8
03-01-2011, 01:48 AM
i don't think so.

RZZZA
03-01-2011, 01:51 AM
Can Scoring PG's win title?

Let's wait and see

LOOTERX9
03-01-2011, 01:57 AM
Me either don't think so. Not since the 80's has a PG lead team to title. Since 1990 the champs has been- Jordan, Pippen, Hakeem, Duncan, Robinson, Kobe, Shaq, Garnett, pierce. Not 1 top scoring PG. on that list of champions.
Remember that Stockton, Kidd, Iverson all came in 2nd place to the top wing player or Big man

Giraffes Rule
03-01-2011, 01:58 AM
Tony Parker is a scoring point guard who led his team to a championship in 2007.

/thread

ravistarr
03-01-2011, 02:00 AM
Tony Parker is a scoring point guard who led his team to a championship in 2007.

/thread

Boom! Fast actin' Tinactin.

But those who argue will say, "Duncan led the team"....

Hustlenomics
03-01-2011, 02:00 AM
stop beating around the bush and just ask if Derrick Rose will win a championship :)

LOOTERX9
03-01-2011, 02:00 AM
Let's wait and see

It hasn't happen in so long, that's why I asked. Recent history says no way but hey, miracles can happen I guess

LOOTERX9
03-01-2011, 02:02 AM
Boom! Fast actin' Tinactin.

But those who argue will say, "Duncan led the team"....

Duncan Led that team without a doubt. You think Parker led them? OMG!

Giraffes Rule
03-01-2011, 02:03 AM
It hasn't happen in so long, that's why I asked. Recent history says no way but hey, miracles can happen I guess

4 years is a long time?


Boom! Fast actin' Tinactin.

But those who argue will say, "Duncan led the team"....

Those people are full of ****. Tony Parker took the finals over in 2007, something LBJ failed to do (when by all means, he should have).

Raps18-19 Champ
03-01-2011, 02:03 AM
It's been a long time since a lead guy (PG) on a title team won the title (isaiah Thomas). Normally Top wing players along with a top bigman has been winning NBA title over past 20 years. So can A team finally win championship with a scoring PG as their lead guy?

Why not?

They'd need other pieces as well and be able to distribute well enough.

LOOTERX9
03-01-2011, 02:05 AM
Tony Parker is a scoring point guard who led his team to a championship in 2007.

/thread

No way, Duncan led that team and not Parker. lmao!!

DaBear
03-01-2011, 02:06 AM
How pathetic is it to make a thread bashing scoring PG's (Derrick Rose) about how they will never win championships, and you open a new thread as a question if they can win.

To answer your question, yes they can. Parker is a scoring PG, and he did just as much as Duncan to win those titles.

DaBear
03-01-2011, 02:06 AM
And now this guy is trying to argue that it was all Duncan. Please close this baiting thread.

Raps18-19 Champ
03-01-2011, 02:07 AM
4 years is a long time?



Those people are full of ****. Tony Parker took the finals over in 2007, something LBJ failed to do (when by all means, he should have).

When you got Gibson guarding you, it shouldn't be hard getting 25 PPG though.

LOOTERX9
03-01-2011, 02:08 AM
Why not?

They'd need other pieces as well and be able to distribute well enough.


But I have yet to see it since the 80's. A scoring PG being the lead guy and winning it all as the absolute top player on the team

sargon21
03-01-2011, 02:11 AM
Billups...

madiaz3
03-01-2011, 02:11 AM
Can scoring PGs like Derrick Rose win a chip? I think so.

I don't think the Marburys, Jennings, and Arenas' can though...

It's all about what they can bring besides scoring and/or if they're scoring efficiently enough.

D1JM
03-01-2011, 02:12 AM
But I have yet to see it since the 80's. A scoring PG being the lead guy and winning it all as the absolute top player on the team

the league changes. player change. we havent seen pg's be so dominate in the league in a long time. you have:

d will
cp3
rose
westbrook
rondo
parker
nash
nelson
billups
felton
wall
etc.

the pg crop is better than it has ever been.

Sadds The Gr8
03-01-2011, 02:13 AM
yes scoring PG's can win, but i don't think 1st option scoring PG's can win.

John Walls Era
03-01-2011, 02:17 AM
Isiah Thomas comes to mind right away

ManRam
03-01-2011, 02:22 AM
The elite passing PGs have been as unlikely to win a championship as the elite scoring PGs. In fact, go back 20 years and look at the PGs...very average to say the least. Another reason why I think it is the most overrated position in the sport.

I think a Rose is more likely to win it as a team's best player than a Rondo per se. I think I'd seriously rather have my PG be able to take over a game scoring-wise than make great passes :shrug:

thebet
03-01-2011, 02:26 AM
the better question is if the Knicks can win a championship... Quite frankly, I just don't see it.

DodgerBulls
03-01-2011, 02:26 AM
It hasn't happen in so long, that's why I asked. Recent history says no way but hey, miracles can happen I guess

Ask yourself this, who in the past years or decade are considered Scoring Point Guards?

Hustlenomics
03-01-2011, 02:30 AM
The elite passing PGs have been as unlikely to win a championship as the elite scoring PGs. In fact, go back 20 years and look at the PGs...very average to say the least. Another reason why I think it is the most overrated position in the sport.

I think a Rose is more likely to win it as a team's best player than a Rondo per se. I think I'd seriously rather have my PG be able to take over a game scoring-wise than make great passes :shrug:

Rondo's ahead 1-0 already :cool:

cubswin25
03-01-2011, 02:37 AM
No way, Duncan led that team and not Parker. lmao!!

Either way it's still the same thing. In 2007 Duncan was a 20 PPG and 10.6 rebound per game guy. While Parker was a 18.6 PPG game and 5.5 AST guy that year. Along with Ginoboli at 16.5 PPG coming off the bench with Michael Finley at 9 PPG and Bowen at 6.2 PPG(and playing great defense). So you can word it that Duncan was their best player still, but him and Parker were pretty close. So if the question is can Derrick Rose win a title as a scoring PG, well he sure can if he has a good supporting cast. But with Rose at 25 PPG and 8 AST. Along with Boozer at 19 PPG and 10 rebounds per game, Deng at 17.7 PPG and 6.3 rebounds and Noah at 13.3 PPG and 11.9 rebounds. Well this Bulls team could be right up there with those good Spurs teams as well, especially since they also play good defense. Of course timing is everything. The Spurs have been pretty good in some weak seasons. While teams in the past like the Sonics with Payton/Kemp and Jazz with Malone/Stockton fell short due to facing great Bulls teams. In a lot of seasons those teams win championships. So it has nothing to with scoring PG unable to win championships. They just need a good big man or two, and good supporting cast. You should ask yourself this when was a last time a scoring PG as good as Rose had this good of team around him and didn't win? The only situation I can think of is the Suns, and that's because they didn't play defense and the Bulls do. A lot of the so called good PG in 90s and early 2000s just didn't have good players around them.

Kashmir13579
03-01-2011, 02:43 AM
Tony Parker is a scoring point guard who led his team to a championship in 2007.

/thread

/thread

cubswin25
03-01-2011, 02:43 AM
It hasn't happen in so long, that's why I asked. Recent history says no way but hey, miracles can happen I guess

When was the last time a scoring PG was probably gonna win the MVP of the league? So obviously Rose is a special player and not like a lot of players we have seen over the last 20 years. Sure Steve Nash has won some MVPs, but he did it averaging 15 and 18 PPG with 10-11 AST. There haven't been many PG who are 25 PPG and 8 AST type PG who carry there teams like Rose does.

gotoHcarolina52
03-01-2011, 02:43 AM
Troy Murphy and Mike Bibby -> Boner for me!

Crackadalic
03-01-2011, 02:43 AM
Didnt parker win finals mvp in 07? You can make a case that parker and duncan were either was a 1st or 2nd player during their playoff run in 07 but parker completely dominated in the finals.

Also whats this can scoring pgs win chips? Can a wing player win without a dominant big or vice versa? You always have to have the 2nd guy on your team regardless of position

Catoblepas
03-01-2011, 02:51 AM
umm Billiups? yes Rip did score like a point or 2 more than him (i think).. but that team(03-04) may have been balanced as far as shot attempts.. but billiups did a good amount of scoring during the playoffs.. hell the guy got finals mvp lol

JLynn943
03-01-2011, 02:57 AM
When was the last time a scoring PG was probably gonna win the MVP of the league? So obviously Rose is a special player and not like a lot of players we have seen over the last 20 years. Sure Steve Nash has won some MVPs, but he did it averaging 15 and 18 PPG with 10-11 AST. There haven't been many PG who are 25 PPG and 8 AST type PG who carry there teams like Rose does.

That would be Allen Iverson, who did go on to win MVP and lead his team to the NBA Finals. While the 76ers did lose, they did so to an insane Lakers team. That 76ers team was certainly capable of winning it all in a normal year, so seeing as there are no teams this year nearly as good as that Lakers team, I see no reason why the Bulls couldn't win behind Rose. Besides, this Bulls team is deeper than that 76ers team was, so I'd say the Bulls have as good a shot as any if they stay healthy.

Hustlenomics
03-01-2011, 03:06 AM
That would be Allen Iverson, who did go on to win MVP and lead his team to the NBA Finals. While the 76ers did lose, they did so to an insane Lakers team. That 76ers team was certainly capable of winning it all in a normal year, so seeing as there are no teams this year nearly as good as that Lakers team, I see no reason why the Bulls couldn't win behind Rose. Besides, this Bulls team is deeper than that 76ers team was, so I'd say the Bulls have as good a shot as any if they stay healthy.

except Larry Brown put him at the 2 and Eric snow was the point and the Bulls don't play Rose as a shooting guard

Gritz
03-01-2011, 03:06 AM
I think they can it depends on the supporting cast of the team but if the 2 guard is more of a defensive player than an offensive player than most definitely as long as the PG knows how to distribute the ball as well as take good shot selections

LongWayFromHome
03-01-2011, 03:08 AM
Yes very much so Magic, Isiah, Walt Fraizer, OScar Robertson, Jerry frickin West.

And there are plenty of almosts such as Stockton, Kidd, Payton, etc.

PG's that are dynamic and the leader, but have a team built around them such as Derrick Rose will get a championship, it happens all the time in history and history always repeats itself.

This is a confusing qualification of player. Do you mean score-FIRST pg? If its score first pg then a lot of players listed here do not count.

In what world would Stockton and Kidd be considered scoring PGs??????

RZZZA
03-01-2011, 03:09 AM
can a scoring PG alone win a title? no. Can a scoring PG in a great team win a title? Absolutely

Jewelz0376
03-01-2011, 03:15 AM
Rose is a score first pg and I could def see him winning a title (not this season)...so yes

Supreme LA
03-01-2011, 03:19 AM
Chauncey Billups is a scoring PG and he destroyed the Lakers in 2004.

HakeemTheDream
03-01-2011, 03:24 AM
Billups, Isiah, Magic, and Parker are all capable scorers even when the pressure was on and all have won a finals MVP.

Jason Kidd, a tremendous all round pg but not so reliable when you need a basket in a clutch moment, won nothing.

So the real question is can a pg like Rondo, who is a great passer but not a reliable scorer in the clutch, win a championship as the best player? Sure he can do it as a role player, but I think he proved in the 2010 finals that he can't do it as the best player. However, if you replace Rondo with Rose then the Celtics would have won.

JLynn943
03-01-2011, 03:27 AM
except Larry Brown put him at the 2 and Eric snow was the point and the Bulls don't play Rose as a shooting guard

Technically, you are correct. However, I would argue that Iverson was basically a scoring point guard.

HakeemTheDream
03-01-2011, 03:32 AM
. .

HakeemTheDream
03-01-2011, 03:36 AM
Iverson would have won if he had guys like Noah, Boozer and Deng.

Bulls are going to win the ship, book it.

Raph12
03-01-2011, 03:50 AM
With the right surrounding cast around him, yes, but he'd need a great 1st/2nd option to do it...

stlbest5in2013
03-01-2011, 03:55 AM
this kotex poster is a character.

stlbest5in2013
03-01-2011, 03:57 AM
Troy Murphy and Mike Bibby -> Boner for me!

must not take much for you to get excited about



troy murphy=fail
bibby, traded for hinrich, lol, kirk is alright, but that speaks to the volume of bibby's sucktitude

cubswin25
03-01-2011, 04:06 AM
Besides, this Bulls team is deeper than that 76ers team was, so I'd say the Bulls have as good a shot as any if they stay healthy.

Well to be honest htat 76ers team really wasn't that good. They had Eric Snow or Aaron Mckie starting at the other guard, George Lynch at SF, Tyrone Hill at PF and made a deadline trade to get Dikembe Mutombo. With there main bench guys being Snow or Mckie, Kevin Ollie,Jumaine Jones, Matt Geiger, Randy Buford and Todd MacCulloch. That team was basically Iverson and a bunch of average players. Besides getting Mutombo for the final 26 games of the season. Which is why Iverson probably won the MVP that season. If Iverson has a support cast of Boozer, Deng, Noah level. With guys like Korver, Brewer(whos like a modern day George Lynch), Taj Gibson and Kurt Thomas/Omer Asik coming off the bench. Well I think he might have had a chance to beat those good Lakers teams even. That said the East is a lot tougher right now with Celtics, Heat, Bulls, Magic, Hawks and Knicks. Then it was in 2000-2001 with the Bucks at 52 wins(had Cassell, Allen and Robinson but not much else), Heat at 50(Eddie Jones,Tim Hardaway, Bruce Bowen, Brian Grant, and Anthony Mason), Knicks at 48 wins(Allan Houston, Latrell Sprewell, Marcus Camby,Larry Johnson) and Raptors at 47 wins(Vince Carter, Antonio Davis, Charles Oakley and young Mo Peterson) as the top 5 teams. So you can see the East is a lot stronger these days. Since none of those teams really had the top level players these teams do now. Even though at the time Carter and Allen were pretty high up there, none of them had much supporting cast.

JasonJohnHorn
03-01-2011, 09:05 AM
Ask Iverson.


Thomas was not really a 'scoring' point guard, he was a point guard who could score. In looking at his assist numbers, he was clearly one of the best passer in the history of the league, and since he is one of only three PG in the history of the league to log more than 1000 assists in a season, I think it is fair to say he was a pass-first PG.

Scoring PG are, in my estimation, PGs who look to score first and pass second. Iverson, for example, Marbury. Steve Francis. There are PGs who could score as much or more than those guys, like Thomas and CP3, but those PGs have great offensive games and use them the force defences to play them honest and in turn opens things up for them. Thomas was a great scorer, but he was a better passer.

The bottom line is unless you want to call Jordan a PG (which you very well could, since he and Pippen shared ball-handling duties), there has never been a score first PG who lead a team to a title. Gail Goodrich was (if memory serves me right) the highest scoring PG to win a title, and he was really the second option to West (and Baylor and Wilt both got plenty of looks that season).

I may happen one day, but as a rule, I would not build a team around a score-first PG.

kdspurman
03-01-2011, 09:18 AM
Tony Parker did... He carried that team in the finals. Now to get them there was a total team effort, but in the finals it was all tp.. ANyone who says Duncan is wrong. Duncan wasnt too shabby by any means, but parker burned the cavs. it's all about matchups. If you have a favorable matchup vs the opposing teams back court like parker did, then yes absolutely a scoring pg can will their team to a title.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2007_finals.html

jezzyman05
03-01-2011, 09:21 AM
When you got Gibson guarding you, it shouldn't be hard getting 25 PPG though.

How is that Parker's problem

farren.louis
03-01-2011, 09:24 AM
Idk 1 scoring point guard with a ring so i'll have to say no.. some say tony parker but he really didnt do it alone duncan nd manu helped.. nd i dnt think the bulls have a duncan and manu on their team (no hate toward bulls i think rose is ok)

jezzyman05
03-01-2011, 09:25 AM
Tony Parker did... He carried that team in the finals. Now to get them there was a total team effort, but in the finals it was all tp.. ANyone who says Duncan is wrong. Duncan wasnt too shabby by any means, but parker burned the cavs. it's all about matchups. If you have a favorable matchup vs the opposing teams back court like parker did, then yes absolutely a scoring pg can will their team to a title.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2007_finals.html 100% agree thanks for saving me 10 minutes of my life

jezzyman05
03-01-2011, 09:31 AM
Idk 1 scoring point guard with a ring so i'll have to say no.. some say tony parker but he really didnt do it alone duncan nd manu helped.. nd i dnt think the bulls have a duncan and manu on their team (no hate toward bulls i think rose is ok)

First you dont know the Spurs at all and second yes Duncan and Manu hepled the Spurs get there, but Parker led them and Duncan by stats was the spurs leading scorer but only by 1.4 points more than parker in 2007 and what makes Parker so good is that he contantly goes to the basket and creates shots for Duncan so yes I will say that the Spurs were lead by Parker in 2007 Championship year.

Your're right because Boozer and Noah are bonified scrubs!!!! :facepalm: please man Boozer is solid and Noah is a good center Rose has a good supporting cast and a good team

JordansBulls
03-01-2011, 09:34 AM
Isiah Thomas led the Pistons in scoring.

flea
03-01-2011, 09:34 AM
You could put Andre Miller on that 2007 Spurs team and they still would have won. There's more to winning a championship than scoring 24 PPG in the finals versus a terrible defensive backcourt. Duncan has been the guy on all of his team's championships because the game is about more than just PPG. He can score, sure, but he can also rebound and pass.

Most importantly, he's the still one of the 2 or 3 best defensive post players in the game - and in 2007 he was the best. Post defense, unlike scoring, isn't as much about athleticism (though it helps) as it is about positioning, footwork, and intelligence. Duncan is a superstar because of all he can do. Parker is a role player because he's really just a scorer who is an average or bit above passer and below average defender.

magichatnumber9
03-01-2011, 09:57 AM
First off if this is a Derrick Rose thread I'll first start off by saying he is the best point guard in the game. Not mainly because of his shooting and scoring but his court vision, game tempo, passing, and control have improved immensely. Derrick Rose is a championship caliber player.

Swashcuff
03-01-2011, 10:16 AM
Ask Iverson.


Thomas was not really a 'scoring' point guard, he was a point guard who could score. In looking at his assist numbers, he was clearly one of the best passer in the history of the league, and since he is one of only three PG in the history of the league to log more than 1000 assists in a season, I think it is fair to say he was a pass-first PG.

Scoring PG are, in my estimation, PGs who look to score first and pass second. Iverson, for example, Marbury. Steve Francis. There are PGs who could score as much or more than those guys, like Thomas and CP3, but those PGs have great offensive games and use them the force defences to play them honest and in turn opens things up for them. Thomas was a great scorer, but he was a better passer.

The bottom line is unless you want to call Jordan a PG (which you very well could, since he and Pippen shared ball-handling duties), there has never been a score first PG who lead a team to a title. Gail Goodrich was (if memory serves me right) the highest scoring PG to win a title, and he was really the second option to West (and Baylor and Wilt both got plenty of looks that season).

I may happen one day, but as a rule, I would not build a team around a score-first PG.

What In Allen Iverson Makes him a PG? By your logic Jerry West is also a PG right?

Team*Chicago
03-01-2011, 10:26 AM
It's been a long time since a lead guy (PG) on a title team won the title (isaiah Thomas). Normally Top wing players along with a top bigman has been winning NBA title over past 20 years. So can A team finally win championship with a scoring PG as their lead guy?

You must be scared of Derrick Rose and Derrick is becoming better than CP3 and D.Will and the Bulls are a bigger title contender than the heat.

I'm surprised this baiting thread isn't closed down yet.

Cubs Win
03-01-2011, 10:28 AM
Of course Derrick Rose can win a championship! :)

Swashcuff
03-01-2011, 10:40 AM
Why in the HELL are people bringing Allen Iverson into this discussion?

ALLEN IVERSON is a SHOOTING GUARD.

As to the question HELL YES a scoring PG can win a championship. Isiah Thomas led the Pistons in scoring in both of their Championship seasons.

kdspurman
03-01-2011, 10:48 AM
You could put Andre Miller on that 2007 Spurs team and they still would have won. There's more to winning a championship than scoring 24 PPG in the finals versus a terrible defensive backcourt. Duncan has been the guy on all of his team's championships because the game is about more than just PPG. He can score, sure, but he can also rebound and pass.

Most importantly, he's the still one of the 2 or 3 best defensive post players in the game - and in 2007 he was the best. Post defense, unlike scoring, isn't as much about athleticism (though it helps) as it is about positioning, footwork, and intelligence. Duncan is a superstar because of all he can do. Parker is a role player because he's really just a scorer who is an average or bit above passer and below average defender.

Now let's not get carried away there... It wasnt about parker just scoring. Some of the things he did dont appear in the box score (they dont count hockey assists) Parker literally lived in the paint that series. It was because of this that guys like bowen, finley, barry etc.. got so many open shots. Either he made the pass to the shooter or made the pass that led to the wide open shooter. The guy shot 57% from the field during that series. It was really a clinic.

Because he was breaking down the cavs defense so easily, they got so many open shots, and he was able to finish in the paint. To say andre miller couldve played instead of parker and still won is a stretch. Parker fits this team, understands the system, and they have chemistry. You cant just replace chemistry cause he exposed the cavs weaknesses.

Bornknick73
03-01-2011, 11:09 AM
The last scoring little man that made the Finals was Iverson and he didnt win. The last scoring PG to win was Isiah as Magic was a facilitator who could score. Magic was a pass first PG.

So the last time it happened was well over 25 years ago. Isiah was a star PG and the leader of that team. AI was the star player and leader of that team. History says very rarely.

But in the Rose case the similarities from the old 80s Pistons teams are there. You got the rebounding Rodman in Noah, the bruising scoring Mahorn in Boozer. They desperately need a Dumars.

I dont know if this is a Chicago baiting thread but the question is valid and in defense of Rose he sure can. His team is built very similarly to that of the old Bad Boys. Height, Rebounds, Defense with a lead guard as the Franchise.

Chicago needs a Dumars. And I think Iggy is it. Iggy on the Bulls will put them over the top. A athletic defensive minded SG. Theres your Dumars.

Swashcuff
03-01-2011, 11:24 AM
The last scoring little man that made the Finals was Iverson and he didnt win. The last scoring PG to win was Isiah as Magic was a facilitator who could score. Magic was a pass first PG.

So the last time it happened was well over 25 years ago. Isiah was a star PG and the leader of that team. AI was the star player and leader of that team. History says very rarely.

But in the Rose case the similarities from the old 80s Pistons teams are there. You got the rebounding Rodman in Noah, the bruising scoring Mahorn in Boozer. They desperately need a Dumars.

I dont know if this is a Chicago baiting thread but the question is valid and in defense of Rose he sure can. His team is built very similarly to that of the old Bad Boys. Height, Rebounds, Defense with a lead guard as the Franchise.

Chicago needs a Dumars. And I think Iggy is it. Iggy on the Bulls will put them over the top. A athletic defensive minded SG. Theres your Dumars.

Three problems

1. Iggy is not a SG.

2. They need someone who is capable at making an open jumper consistently.

3. If they are to get Iggy they'd have to give up a player such as Deng in return.

They need someone more along the lines of a Stephen Jackson type. A proven winner and a good locker room guy. Also is no slouch on the defensive end.

To the point of A.I., he didn't have the kind of supporting cast that Rose has. His team's second leading scorer was his reserve in Aaron Mckie who averaged just under 12 a game. The Bulls have 3 players other than Rose who score better than 13 a game 2 of whom are capable of getting you 20+ on a given night. They are better set for the play-offs than that 76ers teams was.

The Jokemaker
03-01-2011, 11:26 AM
Interesting question. I've always sided with the opinion that a great PG isn't needed to win a title. You just eed someone who is smart iwth the ball and can run the offense. Lakers have won what, 5 titles with Fisher as thier PG?

However, I do think Rose has a shot to do it but for whatever reason, you never see the star PGs leading teams to titles. It's always the other guys who do.

Havoc Wreaker
03-01-2011, 11:28 AM
Didn't Billups lead the Pistons that year?

Swashcuff
03-01-2011, 11:33 AM
Interesting question. I've always sided with the opinion that a great PG isn't needed to win a title. You just eed someone who is smart iwth the ball and can run the offense. Lakers have won what, 5 titles with Fisher as thier PG?

However, I do think Rose has a shot to do it but for whatever reason, you never see the star PGs leading teams to titles. It's always the other guys who do.

4 but previous to that was Harper. You can also got back to the Bulls teams that Paxson, BJ Armstrong and Harper were at the helm.

That was/is to do with the system ran in Chicago and now LA where a ball dominant PG is not necessary.

Hustlenomics
03-01-2011, 11:38 AM
Iverson would have won if he had guys like Noah, Boozer and Deng.

Bulls are going to win the ship, book it.

no way in hell I'm betting on the Bulls to take it unless the Heat,Celtics,Lakers and Spurs leave the league

Bornknick73
03-01-2011, 11:40 AM
Three problems

1. Iggy is not a SG.

2. They need someone who is capable at making an open jumper consistently.

3. If they are to get Iggy they'd have to give up a player such as Deng in return.

They need someone more along the lines of a Stephen Jackson type. A proven winner and a good locker room guy. Also is no slouch on the defensive end.

To the point of A.I., he didn't have the kind of supporting cast that Rose has. His team's second leading scorer was his reserve in Aaron Mckie who averaged just under 12 a game. The Bulls have 3 players other than Rose who score better than 13 a game 2 of whom are capable of getting you 20+ on a given night. They are better set for the play-offs than that 76ers teams was.

Iggy was the 6th rated SG last year.

http://www.thoughtsfromthejockstrap.com/articles-2009/november-2009/top-10-nba-shooting-guards-2009-2010.html

Swashcuff
03-01-2011, 11:51 AM
Iggy was the 6th rated SG last year.

http://www.thoughtsfromthejockstrap.com/articles-2009/november-2009/top-10-nba-shooting-guards-2009-2010.html

I watch Andre Iguodala play every game. US 76ers fans watch Andre Iguodala play EVERY GAME. The organisation watches Andre Iguodala play every game. Doug Collins watches Andre Iguodala play every game. Across the board everyone agree's he SF and he plays that position as a result of it.

KnicksorBust
03-01-2011, 11:54 AM
Why do so many people assume he's baiting Bulls fans and this is just about Rose? :confused:

There are several top players at that position who could be classfied as "scoring PGs."

twoearl
03-01-2011, 11:56 AM
lol. Let's just take the mask off this question and get to what you REALLY want to know.

Can the Bulls win a ring with D Rose as their best player? Yes.

Can they win a ring with the team they have right now? No. They are still a good SG and some better shooters away from a ring.

RZZZA
03-01-2011, 12:07 PM
Rose scored 21 points and had 9 assists last night, if his team mates could knock down open jumpers more often, Rose would have 9 assists every night.

What does that qualify as, a scoring PG or a pass-first PG? When you get 20+ and 9 assists, is that a pure point guard or an impure point guard?

These labels and classifications are silly.

Rocketsfan85
03-01-2011, 12:14 PM
No scoring pgs can't win championships and we all know ur referring to D-Rose so no they will not win a championship wit there pg leading the scoring on there team nor will any team it just doesn't happen. I'm not saying that the pgs in the league shouldn't score but they can't be ur leading scorer on a championship team... IMO

Swashcuff
03-01-2011, 12:17 PM
No scoring pgs can't win championships and we all know ur referring to D-Rose so no they will not win a championship wit there pg leading the scoring on there team nor will any team it just doesn't happen. I'm not saying that the pgs in the league shouldn't score but they can't be ur leading scorer on a championship team... IMO

So what you saying that is has never happened and never will happen?

Because if you are saying that then you couldn't be more wrong.

ugottabjoshinme
03-01-2011, 12:30 PM
A Rose led team looks similar to a Wade led team when the Heat won in 2006. Rose might handle the ball a little more then Wade did (not a whole lot more tho), but other than that their offensive games are pretty similar IMO.

I think the Bulls can win a championship with Rose as their best player.

Hawkeye15
03-01-2011, 02:20 PM
I. Thomas, Billups, Parker.

Yes, of course it can be done. Why is this even a question? As long as the team makeup is correct, then it doesn't matter who leads it.

CowboysKB24
03-01-2011, 03:11 PM
It's been a long time since a lead guy (PG) on a title team won the title (isaiah Thomas). Normally Top wing players along with a top bigman has been winning NBA title over past 20 years. So can A team finally win championship with a scoring PG as their lead guy?

No, they can't. Isaiah Thomas is arguably not even the best player on his team when they won the championship. Magic was the last great point guard, but he also had Kareem and James Worthy to back him up.

There is a long list of great point guard that haven't won a championship (Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, John Stockton, Gary Payton [won with Heat, but was not a primary factor]. Deron Williams and CP3 haven't got close to winning a ring.

When you say scoring, what does that mean? Most PGs strong points are assists/passing. The only true scoring point guard right now is Derrick Rose IMO. Deron Williams, Russell Westbrrok and CP3 are good scorers, but they are better passers and will pass before shoot like pretty much every point guard.

PurpleJesus28
03-01-2011, 03:12 PM
I. Thomas, Billups, Parker.

Yes, of course it can be done. Why is this even a question? As long as the team makeup is correct, then it doesn't matter who leads it.

boom. i find it funny some people think that a point guard can score is somehow a bad thing.

CowboysKB24
03-01-2011, 03:19 PM
I. Thomas, Billups, Parker.

Yes, of course it can be done. Why is this even a question? As long as the team makeup is correct, then it doesn't matter who leads it.

They aren't scoring point guards and not the best player on their championship teams. Billups had 4 other all-stars on his team. Parker had Ginobli and Duncan who are both better than him IMO. The thread is confusing because most guards are not scorers. I am assuming he means can a team with their best player being a point guard win the championship. Like I said the only scoring point guard is D. Rose IMO.

There has been only 5 point guards to win the NBA finals MVP (Billups, Parker, Magic, Cousy, and Isaiah Thomas). You can argue that none of these players were the best on their team. Anything can happen, but I think it is important to have an elite shooting guard or big man rather than a point guard.

But either way you look at it, like you said, you need a team with a good make up. You need to have a team with great chemistry from the starters to the bench.

Swashcuff
03-01-2011, 03:22 PM
No, they can't. Isaiah Thomas is arguably not even the best player on his team when they won the championship. Magic was the last great point guard, but he also had Kareem and James Worthy to back him up.

There is a long list of great point guard that haven't won a championship (Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, John Stockton, Gary Payton [won with Heat, but was not a primary factor]. Deron Williams and CP3 haven't got close to winning a ring.

When you say scoring, what does that mean? Most PGs strong points are assists/passing. The only true scoring point guard right now is Derrick Rose IMO. Deron Williams, Russell Westbrrok and CP3 are good scorers, but they are better passers and will pass before shoot like pretty much every point guard.

Dude please!!!! Just delete your account and never post here again. Reading such rubbish really burns my eyes. You really deserve a :facepalm:

Swashcuff
03-01-2011, 03:24 PM
They aren't scoring point guards and not the best player on their championship teams. Billups had 4 other all-stars on his team. Parker had Ginobli and Duncan who are both better than him IMO. The thread is confusing because most guards are not scorers. I am assuming he means can a team with their best player being a point guard win the championship. Like I said the only scoring point guard is D. Rose IMO.

There has been only 5 point guards to win the NBA finals MVP (Billups, Parker, Magic, Cousy, and Isaiah Thomas). You can argue that none of these players were the best on their team. Anything can happen, but I think it is important to have an elite shooting guard or big man rather than a point guard.

But either way you look at it, like you said, you need a team with a good make up. You need to have a team with great chemistry from the starters to the bench.

Are you serious?

Read the name of the thread.

CAN SCORING PGs Win a Title!!! YES!!!! It has happened

I am so badly tempted to facepalm you again.

Swashcuff
03-01-2011, 03:27 PM
There has been only 5 point guards to win the NBA finals MVP (Billups, Parker, Magic, Cousy, and Isaiah Thomas). You can argue that none of these players were the best on their team. Anything can happen, but I think it is important to have an elite shooting guard or big man rather than a point guard.


You know what on 2nd thought I'll really facepalm you :facepalm:

hugepatsfan
03-01-2011, 03:28 PM
Yes. I don't think that's the best way to build a team, but there are many different types of teams that can win. The right pieces can make any scheme work.

chicago lulz
03-01-2011, 03:36 PM
Another troll comes and goes

DaBUU
03-01-2011, 04:02 PM
You know what on 2nd thought I'll really facepalm you :facepalm:

:laugh:

mRc08
03-01-2011, 04:06 PM
pistons-billups?

flea
03-01-2011, 07:18 PM
Now let's not get carried away there... It wasnt about parker just scoring. Some of the things he did dont appear in the box score (they dont count hockey assists) Parker literally lived in the paint that series. It was because of this that guys like bowen, finley, barry etc.. got so many open shots. Either he made the pass to the shooter or made the pass that led to the wide open shooter. The guy shot 57% from the field during that series. It was really a clinic.

Because he was breaking down the cavs defense so easily, they got so many open shots, and he was able to finish in the paint. To say andre miller couldve played instead of parker and still won is a stretch. Parker fits this team, understands the system, and they have chemistry. You cant just replace chemistry cause he exposed the cavs weaknesses.

Things like "chemistry" and gimme assists that have to do more with his one excellent talent (driving in the paint) rather than court vision isn't exactly an endorsement of how it was "his team" in 07. In fact, it sounds like exactly what I said. He was a role player who opened up their offense but offered little else. You could argue, under this logic, that it was Bowen's team because he kept Lebron in check defensively and drained those open 3s.

The point is that 07 was one man's team. He wasn't the 25-35th best point guard to play the game's team, he wasn't one of the top 10 sixth men to play the game's team, he was the best power forward ever to play the game's team.

John Walls Era
03-01-2011, 07:57 PM
Isiah won 2, Stockton (we calling him a pass first PG even though he could score) won 0.... nuff said.

DaBear
03-01-2011, 08:30 PM
Why do so many people assume he's baiting Bulls fans and this is just about Rose? :confused:

There are several top players at that position who could be classfied as "scoring PGs."

Before he created this thread, he made a thread (which was closed) about how scoring PG's DON'T win championships, and he was solely targeting Rose and the Bulls in his post. He is just baiting in this thread, although it completely backfired on him.

CowboysKB24
03-04-2011, 04:10 AM
Dude please!!!! Just delete your account and never post here again. Reading such rubbish really burns my eyes. You really deserve a :facepalm:

Know your history dude, Adrian Dantley was a huge part of that team. I said "arguably". Joe Dumars won the finals for them in 88, which is why he was the Finals MVP.

Facepalm you dude. :facepalm:

CowboysKB24
03-04-2011, 04:12 AM
You know what on 2nd thought I'll really facepalm you :facepalm:

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Billups had four other all-stars on his team, my son.

Magic had Kareem and James Worthy. James Worthy and Kareem both have Finals MVPs under their belts.

Joe Dumars also has a Finals MVP.

CowboysKB24
03-04-2011, 04:15 AM
Are you serious?

Read the name of the thread.

CAN SCORING PGs Win a Title!!! YES!!!! It has happened

I am so badly tempted to facepalm you again.

No they can't. It hasn't happened since Isaiah in 1990. That was 21 years ago. Get over it.

The only player in the league right now that has a chance is Derrick Rose. He still has a lot to prove because he hasn't done anything in the playoffs. He has a lot of potential and is the only PG that has a real chance of winning a championship. He is undoubtedly the best player on his team unlike the other 5 PGs that have won Finals MVPs.

Confusious
03-04-2011, 06:11 AM
can a scoring PG alone win a title? no. Can a scoring PG in a great team win a title? Absolutely
Smart man.

However, we all know that Rose makes the Bulls great. If I had a choice between Natalie Portman in lingerie, or Derrick Rose...

Well... let's just say it'd be the most difficult decision of my entire life.

Confusious
03-04-2011, 06:21 AM
Delete