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View Full Version : Kevin Love 45th straight DD, breaks modern era record



Hawkeye15
02-26-2011, 12:40 AM
Love just passed Moses for consecutive double doubles with 45. Its another record worth mentioning

J4KOP99
02-26-2011, 12:42 AM
Good for him. He deserves it... he gives so much effort out there on the boards.

Swashcuff
02-26-2011, 12:42 AM
:clap::clap::clap:

Gators123
02-26-2011, 12:42 AM
I can do that too.

Seriously though, Congrats to him. That's an awesome accomplishment.

bovice163
02-26-2011, 12:44 AM
I have a feeling he is going to beat MM's record of 50 as well. I have him on my fantasy team, and the guy usually has at least 10 boards by the end of the 3rd. There is nothing slowing him down, and no one on the TWolves to take the boards from him.

DROSE4MVP
02-26-2011, 12:47 AM
Good for him. Hard worker, and deserves even more awards (like MIP). I always wonder if the Thunder would of took him instead of Westbrook, how good they would be? Tough question, imo. Possibly better, but then you wonder who their point guard would of been.

Kakaroach
02-26-2011, 12:51 AM
Impressive to say the least, big props go out to K-Love. What a season.

stawka
02-26-2011, 12:54 AM
This guy is a ****ing joke. Absolute machine!

Madtown22
02-26-2011, 12:54 AM
Don't stop now, need wins to go along with these Double Doubles

godolphins
02-26-2011, 01:00 AM
:confused: Wasn't the record set by Wilt? I remember hearing that Wilt had over 100 straight games with a double double

bovice163
02-26-2011, 01:01 AM
:confused: Wasn't the record set by Wilt? I remeber hearing that Wilt had over 100 straight games with a double double

Which is why Hawkeye put MODERN Era in the title. :)

xnick5757
02-26-2011, 01:01 AM
:confused: Wasn't the record set by Wilt? I remember hearing that Wilt had over 100 straight games with a double double

227 straight games with a double-double

godolphins
02-26-2011, 01:05 AM
Which is why Hawkeye put MODERN Era in the title. :)

Modern day? So does that also mean Kobe 81 points is the most point scored in a game? People still count Wilt 100 points in a game as the record so how come they don't count his 222 straight double double

Mochalman
02-26-2011, 01:06 AM
Beast.

godolphins
02-26-2011, 01:06 AM
By the way congrats to Love :clap:

bovice163
02-26-2011, 01:07 AM
Modern day? So does that also mean Kobe 81 points is the most point scored in a game? People still count Wilt 100 points in a game as the record so how come they don't count his 222 straight double double

The pace of the game was much much different back then, which is why many people don't bring up Wilt's accolades, even though they were very impressive. The game has evolved so quickly, that it's many times more difficult to score that many points in a game, or have ridiculous double double streaks like that.

redsox0717
02-26-2011, 01:08 AM
And the Timberwolves lost their 7th straight and have the worst record in the West. Grats on him putting up those completely meaningless stats though. It's really helping his team win.

JNA17
02-26-2011, 01:10 AM
It's a shame he's not able to translate those DDs into wins.

DwayneMVPwade
02-26-2011, 01:13 AM
BEASTTTT!!!! He was a steal for my fantasy team. Took him with my 51st pick

bovice163
02-26-2011, 01:14 AM
BEASTTTT!!!! He was a steal for my fantasy team. Took him with my 51st pick

Lucky you. I had to trade Gay and Aldridge for him. The trade is working out for me right now though. :)

Raph12
02-26-2011, 01:16 AM
Dude just loves (no pun intended) to attack the glass on both ends, he's so fundamentally sound, nice for Minny to get something positive this season.

redsox0717
02-26-2011, 01:16 AM
Dude just loves (no pun intended) to attack the glass on both ends, he's so fundamentally sound, nice for Minny to get something positive this season.

i think that was intended

SpeeMN
02-26-2011, 01:19 AM
What people don't get is last year we were getting blown out of every building we played in. Now, because Love is killing it, we are in every game until the end. Then the lack of experience shows and we lose by single digits.

The BodyGuard
02-26-2011, 01:19 AM
Very impressive :clap:

pinkfloyd
02-26-2011, 01:38 AM
227 straight games with a double-double

WTF?! I know it's Wilt but still ****ing ridiculous.

pinkfloyd
02-26-2011, 01:41 AM
And the Timberwolves lost their 7th straight and have the worst record in the West. Grats on him putting up those completely meaningless stats though. It's really helping his team win.

:facepalm::facepalm:

Hater! Give it a rest.

Jewelz0376
02-26-2011, 01:48 AM
nice record...he's a beast on the boards...too bad he plays no D

Baller1
02-26-2011, 01:57 AM
Incredible feat, I'm glad he's finally getting the recognition he's always deserved.

And he's giving everyone in Minny a reason to watch.

Bigbadmoffo
02-26-2011, 02:02 AM
And the Timberwolves lost their 7th straight and have the worst record in the West. Grats on him putting up those completely meaningless stats though. It's really helping his team win.

So Kg was a bum when he played with the wolves?? Was pierce a meaning less player with the celtics before garnett and allen. Think before you talk, he's a pf he can't carry a crappy young team on his own he has no control of his team playing no defense. You trade love to boston for kg they'd still be in last.

Avenged
02-26-2011, 02:18 AM
Too bad he's on the Wolves.. I'd love for him to get more exposure and see what he can do for a winning team. I wonder if he can be a legitimate #1 or #2.

Nighthawk
02-26-2011, 02:22 AM
:facepalm::facepalm:

Hater! Give it a rest.

What did he say that wasn't a fact?

airforceones25
02-26-2011, 02:22 AM
NICEEE! did they win?:violin:

Hustlenomics
02-26-2011, 02:27 AM
And the Timberwolves lost their 7th straight and have the worst record in the West. Grats on him putting up those completely meaningless stats though. It's really helping his team win.

true


So Kg was a bum when he played with the wolves?? Was pierce a meaning less player with the celtics before garnett and allen. Think before you talk, he's a pf he can't carry a crappy young team on his own he has no control of his team playing no defense. You trade love to boston for kg they'd still be in last.

they've made the playoffs and conference finals before 08 so terrible comparison

dodie53
02-26-2011, 02:36 AM
beasting Love

Bullsfan22
02-26-2011, 02:38 AM
congratulations to Kevin Love very impressive.

Swashcuff
02-26-2011, 03:36 AM
Could someone please explain to me the reason why people are in here hating on Kevin Love.

We alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll know it he isn't good defensively and he plays for the worst team in the West. OKAY!!! No shut up and congratulate the man on such an awesome feat. Guess what for the entire modern era there has been horrible bad team and players who play little to no defense but guess what even still no won has been able to get 45 consecutive double doubles.

ElMarroAfamado
02-26-2011, 04:22 AM
watch him in the "All-Star" game that proved he didnt belong anywhere near those guys...he looked so out of place...and he will never make the team EVER again....
eh about this record

iFYouSeekAmy
02-26-2011, 05:54 AM
Congrats. About 180 more double doubles to break Wilt's record now.

Anyone have the number of DD Griffin has?

PurpleJesus
02-26-2011, 06:49 AM
watch him in the "All-Star" game that proved he didnt belong anywhere near those guys...he looked so out of place...and he will never make the team EVER again....
eh about this record

lol...judging a player on an all star game...brilliant.

Ollie Tabooger
02-26-2011, 01:12 PM
Congrats. About 180 more double doubles to break Wilt's record now.

Anyone have the number of DD Griffin has?

In a row? 3
This season? 49 out of 59 games

Gram
02-26-2011, 02:41 PM
Nice. Now come join my Pistons. ;D

Hawkeye15
02-26-2011, 03:25 PM
Modern day? So does that also mean Kobe 81 points is the most point scored in a game? People still count Wilt 100 points in a game as the record so how come they don't count his 222 straight double double

if you don't break the era's, nobody will ever break a record again. The pace of the game back then dictated numbers that could never be touched with only a couple of exceptions.

Lim
02-26-2011, 03:34 PM
lol why does everyone keep bringing up that these stats don't mean anything cause hes on a bad team? he is the first person to put up these kinds of numbers since 1982. you guys act like there hasn't been a good player on a bad team in 29 years

Kashmir13579
02-26-2011, 03:56 PM
Congratulations Hawkeye ;), and more importantly, Love.

valade16
02-26-2011, 04:01 PM
Everyone here is obmverstating how good love is.

That being said, yes his stats are on a terrible team, but are by no means "meaningless". If he wasn't on the T-wolves they would probably break the record for most losses in a season and every loss would be by double digits. Seriously, they'd only get 40 shots a gake because they'd only be able to grab 10 boards a night.

His impact and stats are in no way meaningless...

PurpleJesus
02-28-2011, 12:46 AM
40 points, 20 rebs tonight...guy is a machine.

AI4MVP
02-28-2011, 01:10 AM
**** everyone who hates on Kevin Love.

PurpleJesus
02-28-2011, 01:17 AM
its pretty ridiculous what he is doing this season. Once the wolves start winning games, he is going to be viewed as a top 10 player.
20+points and 15+ rebs...winning team or not, i dont know how you can hate on those numbers.

Hustlenomics
02-28-2011, 01:19 AM
Rondo's going to break this once the other three guys leave

PurpleJesus
02-28-2011, 01:25 AM
Rondo's going to break this once the other three guys leave

cause his assists will be that much easier to achieve when that happens?

rapjuicer06
02-28-2011, 09:14 AM
while what i think love is doing is amazing, he's the only guy on his team that rebounds...of course he's going to suck up all the boards

Hawkeye15
02-28-2011, 09:52 AM
Rondo's going to break this once the other three guys leave

he is going to go for 20-15? Mmkay

twin4life
02-28-2011, 09:56 AM
**** everyone who hates on Kevin Love.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Hawkeye15
02-28-2011, 10:00 AM
here is an interesting fact on Love's 37/23 game. It took him 13 shots to score those 37. Only 8 players since 1986 have scored 35 or more on 13 shots or less. None of them had 20 or more rebounds to go with that ridiculous scoring efficiency.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player=&match=game&year_min=1987&year_max=2011&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&c1stat=pts&c1comp=gt&c1val=35&c2stat=fga&c2comp=lt&c2val=13&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts

I will continue sitting back watching Love put up numbers not seen, while everyone else whines about him being on a bad team or inflated stats (there have been countless bad teams forever, yet nobody has done what Love is doing).

Proof is in the numbers. TEAMS win games. Love can only do so much.

mttwlsn16
02-28-2011, 10:13 AM
props to klove

Double_R
02-28-2011, 10:41 AM
here is an interesting fact on Love's 37/23 game. It took him 13 shots to score those 37. Only 8 players since 1986 have scored 35 or more on 13 shots or less. None of them had 20 or more rebounds to go with that ridiculous scoring efficiency.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player=&match=game&year_min=1987&year_max=2011&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&c1stat=pts&c1comp=gt&c1val=35&c2stat=fga&c2comp=lt&c2val=13&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts

I will continue sitting back watching Love put up numbers not seen, while everyone else whines about him being on a bad team or inflated stats (there have been countless bad teams forever, yet nobody has done what Love is doing).

Proof is in the numbers. TEAMS win games. Love can only do so much.

Dude come on he was 8-13, that isn't some mind blowing fg%, he took 23 ft, but once again it was against the Warriors. I am a Love fan, but don't act like these numbers aren't inflated. If you are gonna bring up efficiency, talk about DHowards 16-20, 40 pt effort, something like that, not a bunch of made free throws. Come on with that since essentially he took another 10+ shots, but was fouled in the process.

Hawkeye15
02-28-2011, 10:47 AM
Dude come on he was 8-13, that isn't some mind blowing fg%, he took 23 ft, but once again it was against the Warriors. I am a Love fan, but don't act like these numbers aren't inflated. If you are gonna bring up efficiency, talk about DHowards 16-20, 40 pt effort, something like that, not a bunch of made free throws. Come on with that since essentially he took another 10+ shots, but was fouled in the process.

37 points on 13 attempts is efficient. Period. Pretty simple.

So, drawing fouls and making those free throws makes efficiency inflated? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

As I said, I enjoy sitting back and listening to the excuses on why Love is having a statistical season never seen before.

beasted86
02-28-2011, 10:54 AM
Good for Kevin Love. :clap:

He's well on his way to earning his team a top 3 pick. No excuses, just facts.

Hawkeye15
02-28-2011, 11:02 AM
Good for Kevin Love. :clap:

He's well on his way to earning his team a top 3 pick. No excuses, just facts.

I think his young, mostly talentless roster are helping do that bro.

Swashcuff
02-28-2011, 11:07 AM
I think his young, mostly talentless roster are helping do that bro.

Why are you even bothering bro. Love's numbers will continue to do the talking for him. When D.Wade's Heat won 15 games in 07-08 no one chastised him because they actually watched him and that team play and Wade had a proven track record despite the fact that he was injured for chunks of that season. When the people actually start to watch the Wolves they'd understand. Till then Love's numbers will have to do the talking for him.

Hawkeye15
02-28-2011, 11:17 AM
Why are you even bothering bro. Love's numbers will continue to do the talking for him. When D.Wade's Heat won 15 games in 07-08 no one chastised him because they actually watched him and that team play and Wade had a proven track record despite the fact that he was injured for chunks of that season. When the people actually start to watch the Wolves they'd understand. Till then Love's numbers will have to do the talking for him.

oh I pick and choose when I even respond at this point. Love's numbers have never been seen in history. They speak plenty loud. But there will always be those who value team success as THE way to evaluate a player. Its fans like that who just misunderstand the evaluation process of an individual in a team sport. This isn't ice skating, its basketball. One person can only do so much.

Hustla23
02-28-2011, 11:29 AM
And he's so handsome too. eeeek.

Double_R
02-28-2011, 11:32 AM
Why are you even bothering bro. Love's numbers will continue to do the talking for him. When D.Wade's Heat won 15 games in 07-08 no one chastised him because they actually watched him and that team play and Wade had a proven track record despite the fact that he was injured for chunks of that season. When the people actually start to watch the Wolves they'd understand. Till then Love's numbers will have to do the talking for him.

DWade started just over half a season at 49 games... Not a good comparison.

The flat out bottom line is that Love cannot be compared to any great bigs because the great bigs in this league win games regardless of their teammates. Yea I hear how Beasley is so improved, Darko is finally shaking the bust label, Flynn and Luke are playing good at pg, but the fact of the matter is that he is grabbing rebounds because someone has to and he is non existent on the defensive end. Bottom line is that top flight players win more than 14 games by March regardless of who is on the court with them. I really hate to say this, but he is just a better version of David Lee.

mttwlsn16
02-28-2011, 11:37 AM
i still dont get how he is as good as he is. he seems so blah, unathletic, cant jump, but the dude gets it done. hopefully he gets some actual teammates around him soon

metspride21
02-28-2011, 11:50 AM
Love just passed Moses for consecutive double doubles with 45. Its another record worth mentioning

yes, night in and night out he gives blood,sweat and tears.
this will of course be overlooked, but this shows he comes to play everynight!
only thing is he is a RFA coming up I think and what if Nets offer max money?

DerekRE_3
02-28-2011, 11:59 AM
i still dont get how he is as good as he is. he seems so blah, unathletic, cant jump, but the dude gets it done. hopefully he gets some actual teammates around him soon

Rebounding is about timing and positioning. He obviously excels at both. He's also very skilled and it's obvious he's got a great feel for the game. Very smart.

Hawkeye15
02-28-2011, 12:02 PM
DWade started just over half a season at 49 games... Not a good comparison.

The flat out bottom line is that Love cannot be compared to any great bigs because the great bigs in this league win games regardless of their teammates. Yea I hear how Beasley is so improved, Darko is finally shaking the bust label, Flynn and Luke are playing good at pg, but the fact of the matter is that he is grabbing rebounds because someone has to and he is non existent on the defensive end. Bottom line is that top flight players win more than 14 games by March regardless of who is on the court with them. I really hate to say this, but he is just a better version of David Lee.

you have to be kidding me. So Gasol, Dirk, KG, Duncan, Odom, Blake, Aldridge, etc. all have teammates comparable to Love's currently? They simply win games with no help?

Beasley hasn't improved a lick
Darko sucks
Flynn sucks harder
Luke couldn't guard me

Exactly what help does Love have to give him more than 14 wins?

You are rating players on team success. This is flawed.

DerekRE_3
02-28-2011, 12:04 PM
People just don't understand how hard it can be to be the only good player on a team.

Swashcuff
02-28-2011, 12:04 PM
DWade started just over half a season at 49 games... Not a good comparison.

The flat out bottom line is that Love cannot be compared to any great bigs because the great bigs in this league win games regardless of their teammates. Yea I hear how Beasley is so improved, Darko is finally shaking the bust label, Flynn and Luke are playing good at pg, but the fact of the matter is that he is grabbing rebounds because someone has to and he is non existent on the defensive end. Bottom line is that top flight players win more than 14 games by March regardless of who is on the court with them. I really hate to say this, but he is just a better version of David Lee.

I'll have Hawkeye school you on the Timberwolves team because your analysis is beyond HORRIBLE you OBVIOUSLY are clueless as to what you are talking about.

Even when Wade played that Heat team was dominated by their opponents.

They were 10-41 in games in which Dwyade Wade played. Doesn't that sound Minnesota-ish to you?

As far as loved deserving mention among the greats. From a statistical standpoint HELL YES he deserves to be mentioned. You place a prime Kevin Garnett on that team and that system and they'd do well to scrape into the West playoff picture.

Kevin Love is not as good or even comparable as a player to some of the better bigs in the history of the game but from a statistical standpoint in terms of rebounding and %s you have to give the man his due.

Fact is NO big man on a good bad or indifferent team has EVER been able to do what Kevin Love is doing. This is a TEAM game learn that.

Swashcuff
02-28-2011, 12:07 PM
you have to be kidding me. So Gasol, Dirk, KG, Duncan, Odom, Blake, Aldridge, etc. all have teammates comparable to Love's currently? They simply win games with no help?

Beasley hasn't improved a lick
Darko sucks
Flynn sucks harder
Luke couldn't guard me

Exactly what help does Love have to give him more than 14 wins?

You are rating players on team success. This is flawed.

Robert Horry is the greatest PF in NBA history Hawkeye15. WTF are you talking about obviously team success is the only way to rate a player's worth. :rolleyes:

He obviously doesn't understand the runnings of the Wolves if he did he OBVIOUSLY wouldn't say stupid ish like Flynn and Ridnour are doing good at PG. :confused:

Double_R
02-28-2011, 12:10 PM
Ok, I feel that I am hating on the dude too much, when in fact I think he is a good player in a bad situation as far as wins, but a good situation to make yourself rich. I mean David Lee did it in NY and Love is doing it in Minn. He is definitely a good rebounder, that is obvious, but I also remember a 5 million page thread last year how Brook Lopez would be the best center in the league by now and how his skill trumped Dwight Howard's ability. So I am hesitant to crown Love anything because of the negative factors of playing very little defense and the 14 wins that the TWolves have. I also have a problem with the fact that he doesn't even block a half of a shot a game which makes me think that if he was trying to change/altar/blk shots he wouldn't even be in the position to grab all these rebounds. I will hold any further comments because I really can't judge him either way based on his team. So when he leaves the Twolves for a better team, I will restart my opinion process.

Swashcuff
02-28-2011, 12:14 PM
Ok, I feel that I am hating on the dude too much, when in fact I think he is a good player in a bad situation as far as wins, but a good situation to make yourself rich. I mean David Lee did it in NY and Love is doing it in Minn. He is definitely a good rebounder, that is obvious, but I also remember a 5 million page thread last year how Brook Lopez would be the best center in the league by now and how his skill trumped Dwight Howard's ability. So I am hesitant to crown Love anything because of the negative factors of playing very little defense and the 14 wins that the TWolves have. I also have a problem with the fact that he doesn't even block a half of a shot a game which makes me think that if he was trying to change/altar/blk shots he wouldn't even be in the position to grab all these rebounds. I will hold any further comments because I really can't judge him either way based on his team. So when he leaves the Twolves for a better team, I will restart my opinion process.

I am sorry but I honestly stopped reading after you said that. There is ZERO comparison there. Yes they are similar players in some regards of the game but Love is on a whole other tier from Lee.

Double_R
02-28-2011, 12:16 PM
you have to be kidding me. So Gasol, Dirk, KG, Duncan, Odom, Blake, Aldridge, etc. all have teammates comparable to Love's currently? They simply win games with no help?

Beasley hasn't improved a lick
Darko sucks
Flynn sucks harder
Luke couldn't guard me

Exactly what help does Love have to give him more than 14 wins?

You are rating players on team success. This is flawed.

That was my point earlier in the year, but you kept telling me how this wasn't true... Darko isn't a bust, Beasley TS%, blah blah blah.

I was obviously being sarcastic about the fact that those guys were worth anything hence the "I hear how", which really should say "I keep hearing how", but either way still conveys my point.

rapjuicer06
02-28-2011, 12:16 PM
well how about the argument that he has no one else on the team so by default he puts up those numbers? and should be putting up better scoring numbers. if it weren't for orlando's 3 point shooting howard would probably be putting up close to 30 points a game, he just doesn't get the touches. love should be getting a touch every time down the court. he's a damn good player but he's not a guy to focus your team around, IMO...

beasted86
02-28-2011, 12:17 PM
oh I pick and choose when I even respond at this point. Love's numbers have never been seen in history. They speak plenty loud. But there will always be those who value team success as THE way to evaluate a player. Its fans like that who just misunderstand the evaluation process of an individual in a team sport. This isn't ice skating, its basketball. One person can only do so much.

Actually basketball is one of the only team sports where 1 player can have such a massive impact on the game.

Good for Love and for his statistical achievements, but everybody, including Kevin Love fans know under a different scenario, he couldn't achieve these stats. If his team played at a traditional pace, he played with other teammates that were good rebounders, and he didn't get get garbage minutes on a team with a terrible record and 5th worst point differential, his stats wouldn't be the same. This in no way makes Kevin Love a trash player, but it does diminish the significance of his stats.

Am I impressed by Love's stats and consecutive DD streak? Sure. Am I blown away like many of the Love supporters in this thread? Not close.

Double_R
02-28-2011, 12:20 PM
I am sorry but I honestly stopped reading after you said that. There is ZERO comparison there. Yes they are similar players in some regards of the game but Love is on a whole other tier from Lee.

There was no comparison except that they both consistently put up dbl dbls on bad teams, that was the point sorry you stopped reading, but then you stated that "Yes they are similar players in some regards of the game" right after telling me this is the reason why you stopped reading. ??? makes no sense

rapjuicer06
02-28-2011, 12:22 PM
There was no comparison except that they both consistently put up dbl dbls on bad teams, that was the point sorry you stopped reading, but then you stated that "Yes they are similar players in some regards of the game" right after telling me this is the reason why you stopped reading. ??? makes no sense

that was kind of a contradiction right there by him...

Swashcuff
02-28-2011, 12:43 PM
There was no comparison except that they both consistently put up dbl dbls on bad teams, that was the point sorry you stopped reading, but then you stated that "Yes they are similar players in some regards of the game" right after telling me this is the reason why you stopped reading. ??? makes no sense

Reason why I stopped reading is because for the millionth time I see a misinformed poster compare Love's season to that of Lee's last year. You went along and compared them again. Lee did have a good little run and is in some ways comparative to Love's but its becoming ridiculous now.

It is already established that Love is way better its time to move on.

beasted86
02-28-2011, 12:52 PM
Reason why I stopped reading is because for the millionth time I see a misinformed poster compare Love's season to that of Lee's last year. You went along and compared them again. Lee did have a good little run and is in some ways comparative to Love's but its becoming ridiculous now.

It is already established that Love is way better its time to move on.

So for the million & 2nd time, do you mind giving a brief description of why Love is on this way different level than Lee? Keep in mind he plays at a higher pace and plays a minute more than Lee did.

DaBUU
02-28-2011, 01:00 PM
If you're not thoroughly impressed by what KLove has accomplished this year, then you dont appreciate the game of basketball. The guy is putting up historical yet people on here find things to moan about. Maybe he doesnt "chill" enough for some of you guys. Too bad Minny is wasting this guys talent by not putting anything around him. They did to KG and forced him out and it seems like they are going to do that to Love.

Swashcuff
02-28-2011, 01:04 PM
So for the million & 2nd time, do you mind giving a brief description of why Love is on this way different level than Lee? Keep in mind he plays at a higher pace and plays a minute more than Lee did.

A player stays camped at the 3 point line for 25% of his team's offensive possessions and is still able to grab you 5 offensive rebounds per game. David Lee spends basically all his time camped in the lane when not taking the occasional 17 foot jumper.

He's also more adept at drawing fouls than David Lee ever was.

NO, NONE, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA (and any other acronyms you can think of) are ran for Kevin Love in the Timberwolves offense. He does all his hard work while freelancing.

Kevin Love is also 3 years younger than Lee was last season playing on a team where he isn't the primary option on offense.

I am not even going to bring stats into this argument because I am going absolutely obliterate this discussion.

Hear what to go do Beasted go play some ball and spend half your time away from the basket and tell me how much rebounds you grab.

Swashcuff
02-28-2011, 01:05 PM
So for the million & 2nd time?

Oh and one more thing you NEVER asked me this question. Never once so don't make it seem as if I was somehow dodging.

bovice163
02-28-2011, 01:07 PM
A player stays camped at the 3 point line for 25% of his team's offensive possessions and is still able to grab you 5 offensive rebounds per game.

He's also more adept at drawing fouls than David Lee ever was.

NO, NONE, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA (and any other acronyms you can think of) are ran for Kevin Love in the Timberwolves offense. He does all his hard work while freelancing.

I am not even going to bring stats into this argument because I am going absolutely obliterate this discussion.

Hear what to go do Beasted go play some ball and spend half your time away from the basket and tell me how much rebounds you grab.
You also forgot to mention that Lee played in D'antoni's system.

beasted86
02-28-2011, 01:20 PM
A player stays camped at the 3 point line for 25% of his team's offensive possessions and is still able to grab you 5 offensive rebounds per game.
Where do you get that statistic from?


He's also more adept at drawing fouls than David Lee ever was.
At the end of the day, that leads to 0.7 more PPG over 1 more minute, at a faster pace, at a much lower FG%. Sorry, I don't understand the significance here of getting to the line.



NO, NONE, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA (and any other acronyms you can think of) are ran for Kevin Love in the Timberwolves offense. He does all his hard work while freelancing.
Yet he's assisted on 62% of his FGs? Sorry, but I tend not to believe you. Because he doesn't have many isolation plays doesn't mean plays aren't ran for him. As a sort of comparison, Udonis Haslem has made a living over the past 8 years in Miami never having 1 ISO play drawn for him, but there are for SURE plays drawn up for him to get a mid-range jumper. You can't disregard plays being drawn for a guy just because he doesn't ISO.


I am not even going to bring stats into this argument because I am going absolutely obliterate this discussion.
What stats? advanced stats? Because that's the only way you can make an argument for Love. At the end of the day using traditional stats, Love averages 0.7 more points on lower FG%, and lower assists in 1 more minute per game. The only thing he does significantly better is rebound at 3 more per game overall... and again in consideration of more time per game and a faster pace. Again, I'm not seeing the significance unless you start digging into 'advanced theory stats'.


Hear what to go do Beasted go play some ball and spend half your time away from the basket and tell me how much rebounds you grab.
So at the end of the day, basically it seems like your whole argument is based on rebounds per game. Ad again, I'd like to see the statistics that back up your claim of how much time Love spends away from the basket.

Lim
02-28-2011, 01:24 PM
while what i think love is doing is amazing, he's the only guy on his team that rebounds...of course he's going to suck up all the boards

so with that logic dwight howard should be avging close to 16 rpg this season right? no one on that team can rebound either cept dwight

SpeeMN
02-28-2011, 01:27 PM
I put together a list of arguably Kevin Love's best games this year. I believe, from this sample size, he is getting better as the year goes on. He has stopped shooting when he realizes he's not making them, and it has turned his fg% up big time. He has also learned how to get to the free throw line!

Nov9 23pts 24rebs 7-17fg
Nov12 31pts 31rebs 11-26fg
Nov24 32pts 22rebs 11-19fg
Dec4 28pts 19rebs 8-15fg
Dec18 43pts 17rebs 14-23fg
Jan5 35pts 15rebs 11-16fg
Jan7 30pts 19rebs 10-15fg
Jan13 35pts 11rebs 13-18fg
Jan26 31pts 21rebs 13-23fg
Feb7 27pts 15rebs 6-12fg
Feb27 37pts 23rebs 8-13fg

On top of all these numbers, David Lee can not shoot the 3. David Lee can not get 20 rebounds any night he feels. This year he can't even get 10rebs on a given night. David Lee thrived in the Knicks' system. I see one comparison, they are both caucasian.

Swashcuff
02-28-2011, 01:33 PM
Where do you get that statistic from?

At the end of the day, that leads to 0.7 more PPG over 1 more minute, at a faster pace, at a much lower FG%. Sorry, I don't understand the significance here of getting to the line.

Yet he's assisted on 62% of his FGs? Sorry, but I tend not to believe you. Because he doesn't have many isolation plays doesn't mean plays aren't ran for him. As a sort of comparison, Udonis Haslem has made a living over the past 8 years in Miami never having 1 ISO play drawn for him, but there are for SURE plays drawn up for him to get a mid-range jumper. You can't disregard plays being drawn for a guy just because he doesn't ISO.

What stats? advanced stats? Because that's the only way you can make an argument for Love. At the end of the day using traditional stats, Love averages 0.7 more points on lower FG%, and lower assists in 1 more minute per game. The only thing he does significantly better is rebound at 3 more per game overall... and again in consideration of more time per game and a faster pace. Again, I'm not seeing the significance unless you start digging into 'advanced theory stats'.

So at the end of the day, basically it seems like your whole argument is based on rebounds per game. Ad again, I'd like to see the statistics that back up your claim of how much time Love spends away from the basket.

You know I really wished such a good poster wasn't so dence.

You want stats right you want stats

Here are all the stats you need

http://www.82games.com/1011/10GSW14.HTM

http://www.82games.com/0910/0910NYK.HTM

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=David%20Lee

^That's Lee

Now take a look at the differences for Love

http://www.82games.com/1011/10MIN13.HTM

http://www.82games.com/1011/1011MIN.HTM

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Kevin%20Love

now lets take a simple comparison of them both. Lee last season vs Love this season.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=loveke01&y1=2011&p2=leeda02&y2=2010

Do you now understand?

Or do you need me to explain that Kevin Love is better than David Lee in damn every statistic. Or do you need me to interpret these numbers for you.

Do you want me to explain why exactly David Lee's FG% was higher than Kevn Love's but his TS% isn't?

Do you know that all the greatest and most effective players of all time are at the top in advanced stats categories?

Last question I'll ask you and its the most important one of them all.

DO YOU WATCH THE MINNESOTA TIMBERWOLVES PLAY?

I can't believe you discredit the fact of the significance of FTA. I really lost a ton of respect for you with that post bro.

tbone2171
02-28-2011, 01:38 PM
I have a feeling he is going to beat MM's record of 50 as well. I have him on my fantasy team, and the guy usually has at least 10 boards by the end of the 3rd. There is nothing slowing him down, and no one on the TWolves to take the boards from him.

I don't get your sig.. Who's the 1/2?

PurpleJesus
02-28-2011, 01:40 PM
I just wish Love would stop being compared to Lee...its a white thing.

rapjuicer06
02-28-2011, 01:53 PM
so with that logic dwight howard should be avging close to 16 rpg this season right? no one on that team can rebound either cept dwight

except for the fact that dwight is a major shot blocker and goes after peoples shots, trying to alter then while love doesn't do that. he doesn't play good help defense and waits for the miss shot while dwight tries to cause that missed shot. nice try though

Hawkeye15
02-28-2011, 01:57 PM
That was my point earlier in the year, but you kept telling me how this wasn't true... Darko isn't a bust, Beasley TS%, blah blah blah.

I was obviously being sarcastic about the fact that those guys were worth anything hence the "I hear how", which really should say "I keep hearing how", but either way still conveys my point.

I think you are confusing me with someone else bro. Beasley had a nice run early in the year, but I have never made claims he is improved this year overall.
Darko was given a deal many centers who suck far worse than him are getting. Where did I say he wasn't a bust?

It doesn't convey your point. You know I don't flip and flop on my opinions here, so don't put words in my mouth. Did Beasley go thru a stretch of good play? Sure. Did I bite on it? Nope. Did Darko show improvement after his horrid start to the year? Yep. Have I ever claimed he is a good player? Nope.

KobeOwnSU
02-28-2011, 01:57 PM
Its cuz he is white and is unathletic.

beasted86
02-28-2011, 01:58 PM
You know I really wished such a good poster wasn't so dence.

You want stats right you want stats

Here are all the stats you need

http://www.82games.com/1011/10GSW14.HTM

http://www.82games.com/0910/0910NYK.HTM

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=David%20Lee

^That's Lee

Now take a look at the differences for Love

http://www.82games.com/1011/10MIN13.HTM

http://www.82games.com/1011/1011MIN.HTM

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Kevin%20Love

now lets take a simple comparison of them both. Lee last season vs Love this season.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=loveke01&y1=2011&p2=leeda02&y2=2010

Do you now understand?

Or do you need me to explain that Kevin Love is better than David Lee in damn every statistic. Or do you need me to interpret these numbers for you.

Yeah I fully understand Kevin Love is better at advanced theory stats, not so much traditional stats.



Do you want me to explain why exactly David Lee's FG% was higher than Kevn Love's but his TS% isn't?

Yes, I know that TS% is based on a theory that 3PT shots are more valueable, and more FT attempts are more valuable... but keep in mind that's just a theory. This same theory says that one guy can shoot nine 21 ft jumpers and make all nine, and score 18 points, and another guy can shoot nine 22 ft jumpers, and make only 6, but because he scored 18 points he is just as good a shooter. This is not fact by any means, it's a theory.

I personally don't like to rely on advanced theory stats in making comparisons of players, but to each his own.


Do you know that all the greatest and most effective players of all time are at the top in advanced stats categories?

Last question I'll ask you and its the most important one of them all.

DO YOU WATCH THE MINNESOTA TIMBERWOLVES PLAY?
Yes, the greatest players of all time put up great stats on winning teams, with advanced stats to back up their game. I don't watch the Wolves play except for their games against the Heat as I don't have league pass anymore.


I can't believe you discredit the fact of the significance of FTA. I really lost a ton of respect for you with that post bro.


I only discredit FT attempts when they don't lead to better results. Love gets 0.7 more PPG than Lee got in a higher pace and playing more minutes. So under those circumstances, the extra FT attempts aren't very significant

Also on how FTA affects TS%. I always like to use this example because it always shows the flaw in TS% being weighted so heavily to FTA, but Chauncey Billups vs. Ray Allen. Ray shoots a higher FG%, and a higher 3PT%, but because Chauncey is a better FT shooter and gets to the line more, not only does he have a higher TS%, but the difference says Chauncey is on a different tier as a shooter in all, when everyone with common sense knows otherwise.

Hawkeye15
02-28-2011, 01:58 PM
Actually basketball is one of the only team sports where 1 player can have such a massive impact on the game.

Good for Love and for his statistical achievements, but everybody, including Kevin Love fans know under a different scenario, he couldn't achieve these stats. If his team played at a traditional pace, he played with other teammates that were good rebounders, and he didn't get get garbage minutes on a team with a terrible record and 5th worst point differential, his stats wouldn't be the same. This in no way makes Kevin Love a trash player, but it does diminish the significance of his stats.

Am I impressed by Love's stats and consecutive DD streak? Sure. Am I blown away like many of the Love supporters in this thread? Not close.

only the elite of the elite can have a big impact single handedly. And I don't think anyone is putting Love in LeBron's category here.

Swashcuff
02-28-2011, 02:01 PM
only the elite of the elite can have a big impact single handedly. And I don't think anyone is putting Love in LeBron's category here.

:clap::clap::clap:

Hawkeye15
02-28-2011, 02:02 PM
Where do you get that statistic from?


At the end of the day, that leads to 0.7 more PPG over 1 more minute, at a faster pace, at a much lower FG%. Sorry, I don't understand the significance here of getting to the line.

Yet he's assisted on 62% of his FGs? Sorry, but I tend not to believe you. Because he doesn't have many isolation plays doesn't mean plays aren't ran for him. As a sort of comparison, Udonis Haslem has made a living over the past 8 years in Miami never having 1 ISO play drawn for him, but there are for SURE plays drawn up for him to get a mid-range jumper. You can't disregard plays being drawn for a guy just because he doesn't ISO.


What stats? advanced stats? Because that's the only way you can make an argument for Love. At the end of the day using traditional stats, Love averages 0.7 more points on lower FG%, and lower assists in 1 more minute per game. The only thing he does significantly better is rebound at 3 more per game overall... and again in consideration of more time per game and a faster pace. Again, I'm not seeing the significance unless you start digging into 'advanced theory stats'.


So at the end of the day, basically it seems like your whole argument is based on rebounds per game. Ad again, I'd like to see the statistics that back up your claim of how much time Love spends away from the basket.

you don't understand the significance of getting to the line at a high rate and hitting those free throws, and what it does for offensive efficiency? That is a problem if you are attempting to use stats to evalute offense. You are missing one of the simplest things out there if you can't grasp it.

If you want to use per game stats, then you don't have a leg to stand on. Attempting to use pace is a weak effort as well. They both play on fast paced teams with high possession usage. We aren't talking Minnesota versus Portland pace-wise here

rapjuicer06
02-28-2011, 02:04 PM
only the elite of the elite can have a big impact single handedly. And I don't think anyone is putting Love in LeBron's category here.

so would that also be dwights category? i think if dwight was on the twolves they'd have more than 14 wins ;) sorry had to say it. people say dwight isn't elite but yet he would make that team a **** load better.

i think if love was on a team where there was even an ok rebounder he wouldn't be putting up those kind of numbers. or if he played better help defense or defense at all, he wouldn't be putting up those numbers

Hawkeye15
02-28-2011, 02:07 PM
beasted, if you are going to use stats, you need to move beyone archaic per game stats, and basic FG%. If you don't like advanced stats, then don't get into a stats argument. They are used and relied upon by GM's, scouts, and most media sources. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean they show us quite a bit.
Your opinion is this, let me know if I am wrong. Great players will have good advanced stats, because they are great. But if anyone else has them, and they aren't on a winning team, they are now skewed.

Doesn't make any sense

Hawkeye15
02-28-2011, 02:09 PM
so would that also be dwights category? i think if dwight was on the twolves they'd have more than 14 wins ;) sorry had to say it. people say dwight isn't elite but yet he would make that team a **** load better.

i think if love was on a team where there was even an ok rebounder he wouldn't be putting up those kind of numbers. or if he played better help defense or defense at all, he wouldn't be putting up those numbers

Dwight is a top 5 player in his prime, so yes, he would have an effect in the win column for any team, including the Wolves.

Again, who the hell is saying Love is a top 5-10 player?

You don't have to believe he would rebound like he does next to another good rebounder. Love has historical evidence from around 10th grade on, that no matter who you put around him, he owns the glass. I will stick with the proof.

Hawkeye15
02-28-2011, 02:11 PM
btw, who is grabbing all of Dwight's boards? Orlando is a weak rebounding team outside of him. Are his rebounding numbers inflated?

How bout Randolph's? Blakes? Who are they battling so hard against?? And Love is still blowing them all away in that department

beasted86
02-28-2011, 02:12 PM
Anyhow, we are getting off topic a bit, but IMO Kevin Love is a significantly better rebounder than Lee. Overall player and impact wise, I'm just not seeing how he's on this 'whole different level'.

But good for Love and his statistical achievements. Love fans just have to realize some people aren't going to put this season's stats into the class of the all time greats because his team is going nowhere fast (literally).

Hawkeye15
02-28-2011, 02:13 PM
you guys are right. Love is clearly responsible for our perimeter being a bottom 3 defense, having Darko there to "protect" the rim, a coach who still hasn't figured out how to run an inbounds play, the youngest roster in the NBA, and has completely been the reason the Wolves only have 14 wins.

What was I thinking?

Hawkeye15
02-28-2011, 02:16 PM
Anyhow, we are getting off topic a bit, but IMO Kevin Love is a significantly better rebounder than Lee. Overall player and impact wise, I'm just not seeing how he's on this 'whole different level'.

But good for Love and his statistical achievements. Love fans just have to realize some people aren't going to put this season's stats into the class of the all time greats because his team is going nowhere fast (literally).

Basketball fans will recognize how great of a season it was. Its never been done on allllllllllll the horrible, ok, average, good, or great teams in history. Nobody has ever put up Moses numbers on the block, while hitting Bird percentages from the perimeter/line. Never been done.

And yes, many will continue to use team success as their barometer on measuring a player. Not the correct way to do it, but as long as someone stays consistent on this (which is rare here), then I am fine with it. But most tend to use whatever suits their argument at the moment.

Swashcuff
02-28-2011, 02:18 PM
Yeah I fully understand Kevin Love is better at advanced theory stats, not so much traditional stats.

Did you pay attention to the 82games none advanced stats? Or did you again just assume that I am only talking about advanced statistics?

Did you pay attention to the respective splits for this respective teams in an attempt to at least try to understand their impact?


Yes, I know that TS% is based on a theory that 3PT shots are more valueable, and more FT attempts are more valuable... but keep in mind that's just a theory. This same theory says that one guy can shoot nine 21 ft jumpers and make all nine, and score 18 points, and another guy can shoot nine 22 ft jumpers, and make only 6, but because he scored 18 points he is just as good a shooter. This is not fact by any means, it's a theory.

Let's focus on the FG%. It's not about a theory its a formula a very effective formula at that. It tells you who is actually a better SHOOTER and not just how many feild goals one makes as oppose to how many he misses. That is indeed VERY subjective. By such a logic Nene is an Elite scorer in the NBA. If you rate FG% higher than you rate TS% that tells a lot about your understanding of the game of basketball.

Oh and to answer my question the reason why Love's FG% is so much lower is because he spends so much of his time away from the basket. If Love played inside most of the time he would not be better than Lee was last season but he'd certainly have a comparable FG%. The reason why Lee's FG% was so much higher is because he took higher percentage shots. CASE CLOSED.


I personally don't like to rely on advanced theory stats in making comparisons of players, but to each his own.

You know what's the theory I love the most. WATCHING GAMES!!!!


Yes, the greatest players of all time put up great stats on winning teams, with advanced stats to back up their game. I don't watch the Wolves play except for their games against the Heat as I don't have league pass anymore.

I never once said anything about Kevin Love or the Wolves I was stating why advanced stats indeed have ground in this and any debate. They are indeed very accurate. None are perfect but they are indeed very telling.


I only discredit FT attempts when they don't lead to better results. Love gets 0.7 more PPG than Lee got in a higher pace and playing more minutes. So under those circumstances, the extra FT attempts aren't very significant

Again this right here proves to me and anyone that you are indeed a hater of Love. I bet if your team's best player gave it all night in and night out but you guys weren't good enough to have a winning record you'd be all over his basic and advanced numbers as to why he's still a good player.


Also on how FTA affects TS%. I always like to use this example because it always shows the flaw in TS% being weighted so heavily to FTA, but Chauncey Billups vs. Ray Allen. Ray shoots a higher FG%, and a higher 3PT%, but because Chauncey is a better FT shooter and gets to the line more, not only does he have a higher TS%, but the difference says Chauncey is on a different tier as a shooter in all, when everyone with common sense knows otherwise.

So then you use that basis across the board?

By that logic Shaq is a better shooter than Dirk Nowitzki right?

Your problem is that you don't seem to understand how players go about getting the stats they have but instead diminish what said player is capable of doing on the offensive end. If you want to discredit getting to the line and making your shots at a high % go right ahead.

Last thing I'd like to say is PAY ATTENTION to the 82games stats in which I posted and UNDERSTAND them. They aren't advanced stats but stats in which would help you (someone who doesn't actually watch other teams play) understand the roles and impact of certain players.

rapjuicer06
02-28-2011, 02:24 PM
btw, who is grabbing all of Dwight's boards? Orlando is a weak rebounding team outside of him. Are his rebounding numbers inflated?

How bout Randolph's? Blakes? Who are they battling so hard against?? And Love is still blowing them all away in that department

like i stated before, because dwight goes after shots and challenges people which occupies him instead of getting the boards

Hawkeye15
02-28-2011, 02:31 PM
like i stated before, because dwight goes after shots and challenges people which occupies him instead of getting the boards

so, since Love knows he can't block a shot 13 feet off the ground, and instead makes sure he is always in position to take away a possible second chance point as his defensive strategy, his rebounds are inflated? Well, aren't Dwight's blocks inflated then?
Dude, Dwight isn't exactly leaving the paint. He is always in the area of the rim, and also has nobody on his team he fights for rebounds with. Yet Love is still clearly a better rebounder now.

Some of you need to watch the Wolves (which you won't do, or you wouldn't be talking nonsense). Love is a complete animal on the boards. His numbers are not inflated in that category whatsoever. When he was grabbing over 40% of all available rebounds in the FIBA tourney this year, was that inflated?

And I love reading how his scoring is inflated. Um, he doesn't even get a play run for him now. Why would it change if he went to a better team? If anything, he would rise in efficiency (this is what happens when usage drops children). The Wolves use him at the high post, and in pick and rolls 22 feet from the rim, and he still manages to lead the NBA in offensive rebounds. Why? Because he wants every rebound available. Watch him when he doesn't get a ball in his area. He is beyond pissed. He knows that is what he does.

Love is probably never going to be the #1 guy on a contender. But name me a team that wouldn't get ridiculously better simply by adding him? Take him off the Wolves and Philly's 9 win season gets beat this year, easily.

Swashcuff
02-28-2011, 02:32 PM
like i stated before, because dwight goes after shots and challenges people which occupies him instead of getting the boards

What's the basis for the difference on offensive glass however?

Hawkeye15
02-28-2011, 02:33 PM
What's the basis for the difference on offensive glass however?

that doesn't even matter. He acts as if Dwight is leaving the paint multiple times a night to close on shooters. Um, no he isn't.

AddiX
02-28-2011, 02:35 PM
I think we should make a separate thread for love actually winning a game. That's clearly the real news here.

People say Knicks play bad defense, wait until you see Beasley love and rubio. Teams will average 120 on them.

beasted86
02-28-2011, 02:38 PM
To make it clear, the very best metric for dictating who is a better shooter is regular traditional FG% split by shooting charts, and then weighted by assisted %. The problem is: 1, nobody has an easy way to compare players using that method, and 2, even that is not 100% fool proof as there are obvious flaws as well I'm not going to trail off topic to get into.

TS% is a theory stat as I just laid out clear and simple, as are most "advanced stats". I'm not even saying it's wrong to use them sometimes, I just want to make it clear that they are based on a theory, and at least everyone must agree that far.

As far as impact on a losing team, this hasn't changed, ever. Players who put up good stats on terrible teams don't get the same respect. This is not new. This is not some special double standard bias against Kevin Love. That's just how it works. Until Love, anyone else putting out nice stats on a losing team, can duplicate it on a winning team, or preferably, one of the best teams in the current league, they won't get the same respect as the all-stars, all-time greats, and hall of fame players.

Hawkeye15
02-28-2011, 02:40 PM
To make it clear, the very best metric for dictating who is a better shooter is regular traditional FG% split by shooting charts, and then weighted by assisted %. The problem is: 1, nobody has an easy way to compare players using that method, and 2, even that is not 100% fool proof as there are obvious flaws as well I'm not going to trail off topic to get into.
TS% is a theory stat as I just laid out clear and simple, as are most "advanced stats". I'm not even saying it's wrong to use them sometimes, I just want to make it clear that they are based on a theory, and at least everyone must agree that far.

As far as impact on a losing team, this hasn't changed, ever. Players who put up good stats on terrible teams don't get the same respect. This is not new. This is not some special double standard bias against Kevin Love. That's just how it works. Until Love, anyone else putting out nice stats on a losing team, can duplicate it on a winning team, or preferably, one of the best teams in the current league, they won't get the same respect as the all-stars, all-time greats, and hall of fame players.


what does that prove? The best shooters aren't the best scorers in most cases.

valade16
02-28-2011, 03:14 PM
you guys are right. Love is clearly responsible for our perimeter being a bottom 3 defense, having Darko there to "protect" the rim, a coach who still hasn't figured out how to run an inbounds play, the youngest roster in the NBA, and has completely been the reason the Wolves only have 14 wins.

What was I thinking?

Just curious, where do you think he ranks in the nba? Like 20th best player? 30th?

Because everyone keeps saying "he's a beast", or "he's putting up historically good numbers" as if that makes him a historically good player...

He's insanely good at the things he's good at (rebounding, 3-pters, etc.) and bad at the things he's not good at.

Also, how can Love's winshares be higher than the total number of wins the Twolves have? Am I missing something here?

Double_R
02-28-2011, 03:19 PM
I think you are confusing me with someone else bro. Beasley had a nice run early in the year, but I have never made claims he is improved this year overall.
Darko was given a deal many centers who suck far worse than him are getting. Where did I say he wasn't a bust?

It doesn't convey your point. You know I don't flip and flop on my opinions here, so don't put words in my mouth. Did Beasley go thru a stretch of good play? Sure. Did I bite on it? Nope. Did Darko show improvement after his horrid start to the year? Yep. Have I ever claimed he is a good player? Nope.

Here's where you bit and not taken out of context, link below:
Here's your comments on Beasley
I don't think its a mirage in the slightest. I have no clue how good he will get. But he is going to be a legit scorer in the NBA.

Beasley plays SF. He also reported in far better condition, and his shot looks unreal so far. I am expecting a slight regression over the year, but I would guess he ends up over 20 a game on his career best TS%.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=552040

Here's where you bit on Darko link below:
He is good defensively, a pretty good passer, but has no confidence offensively, and is soft, period.

I mean, Milicic is starting, and near the top of the league in blocks, and actually plays a lot of minutes and contributes.

Darko last night, 25/11

well, the Wolves will end up winning some games this year, believe me. They have had the 3rd toughest schedule, and literally just got back Webster and Flynn last night. After this road trip, they have a schedule over the next 7-10 games where they could win a good amount of them.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=555342

That is just 2 threads where I argued with you about them. No confusion here, you were claiming that these guys were something and now you say they are garbage to defend why Love hasn't carried your team to more wins?

Chitownhero14
02-28-2011, 03:26 PM
I like Kevin Love, he's a great player the only thing that worries me is that if he was on a team that was worth a damn would he be any good or atleast anywhere near what he seems to be? I dont think he would be, same goes for Blake Griffin, both have all-star potential but if you put them on good teams right now i dont think they'd be anywhere near what they are doing this season.

benzni
02-28-2011, 03:34 PM
what a boss It would have been highway robbery if he was not in the asg


:clap::superman::cheers:

Hawkeye15
02-28-2011, 03:36 PM
Here's where you bit and not taken out of context, link below:
Here's your comments on Beasley
I don't think its a mirage in the slightest. I have no clue how good he will get. But he is going to be a legit scorer in the NBA.

Beasley plays SF. He also reported in far better condition, and his shot looks unreal so far. I am expecting a slight regression over the year, but I would guess he ends up over 20 a game on his career best TS%.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=552040

Here's where you bit on Darko link below:
He is good defensively, a pretty good passer, but has no confidence offensively, and is soft, period.

I mean, Milicic is starting, and near the top of the league in blocks, and actually plays a lot of minutes and contributes.

Darko last night, 25/11

well, the Wolves will end up winning some games this year, believe me. They have had the 3rd toughest schedule, and literally just got back Webster and Flynn last night. After this road trip, they have a schedule over the next 7-10 games where they could win a good amount of them.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=555342

That is just 2 threads where I argued with you about them. No confusion here, you were claiming that these guys were something and now you say they are garbage to defend why Love hasn't carried your team to more wins?


and where did I overrate either? Please explain....

Being a legit scorer doesn't make you great. Beasley isn't garbage, I said he hasn't improved. And that is true. His ankle injuries have given him limited minutes in many contests, and thus dropped him below 20 a night. His TS% has also dropped (I predicted regression btw), and this is also due to him being hurt off and on and having rough games around those injuries. He just shoots more now, hence more ppg.
Milicic is not a bust, but how on earth have I ever claimed he is good? Because he starts for a 14 win team? That just makes our center position bad, not Darko good.

Anything else on this?

theimortalone
02-28-2011, 03:53 PM
Kevin Love is an absolute beast, and he deserves a contract starting at 11 mill or more!

beasted86
02-28-2011, 04:11 PM
Dude, Dwight isn't exactly leaving the paint. He is always in the area of the rim, and also has nobody on his team he fights for rebounds with. Yet Love is still clearly a better rebounder now.

Not really... much faster pace (1st vs. 16th... ~5 more possessions per game). Aside from that your theory about nobody to compete with is kind of false as there is proof in the stats Magic are better in total rebound rate than the Wolves (2nd vs. 6th).

So I wouldn't say that Love is "clearly" a better rebounder. Not close at all.

Lim
02-28-2011, 05:26 PM
except for the fact that dwight is a major shot blocker and goes after peoples shots, trying to alter then while love doesn't do that. he doesn't play good help defense and waits for the miss shot while dwight tries to cause that missed shot. nice try though

you'd have a point if dwight consistently left the paint to block shots but he doesn't. also kevin love does try to block shots hes just 20x less athletic then dwight and 3 inches shorter.

Double_R
02-28-2011, 05:46 PM
and where did I overrate either? Please explain....

Being a legit scorer doesn't make you great. Beasley isn't garbage, I said he hasn't improved. And that is true. His ankle injuries have given him limited minutes in many contests, and thus dropped him below 20 a night. His TS% has also dropped (I predicted regression btw), and this is also due to him being hurt off and on and having rough games around those injuries. He just shoots more now, hence more ppg.
Milicic is not a bust, but how on earth have I ever claimed he is good? Because he starts for a 14 win team? That just makes our center position bad, not Darko good.

Anything else on this?

I normally agree with you for the most part, but I think that your homer thoughts get cloudy when we start talking about Love, hence this silly statement about "Love is clearly a better rebounder than Dwight Howard, that is down right laughable. Love couldn't hold a candle to Dwight if they went head to head with the exact same teammates. Have you ever watched DH rebound, some of the ones he grabs are down right impressive, that is not the same for Love, he just rebounds and then your like wow he has 20, I didn't even notice. PS I watch a decent amount of TWolves bball, not the whole games usually, but I have the ticket and peruse the games.

Another PS, I'm not trying to pick on your posts or Love, but you are about the only one in this thread that at least uses logic and fact in their responses; not all the time though, ha.

Hawkeye15
02-28-2011, 05:47 PM
Not really... much faster pace (1st vs. 16th... ~5 more possessions per game). Aside from that your theory about nobody to compete with is kind of false as there is proof in the stats Magic are better in total rebound rate than the Wolves (2nd vs. 6th).

So I wouldn't say that Love is "clearly" a better rebounder. Not close at all.

5 more possessions, and basing rebound rates from two of the top rebounding teams doesn't show anything man. Love is nearly 2% higher in rebound rate than Dwight. Both play for teams that don't give them a lot of help (which is actually an improper assumption. They are both such great rebounders, nobody COULD be a dominant rebounder next to one of them).

Love is the better rebounder today.

Hawkeye15
02-28-2011, 05:52 PM
I normally agree with you for the most part, but I think that your homer thoughts get cloudy when we start talking about Love, hence this silly statement about "Love is clearly a better rebounder than Dwight Howard, that is down right laughable. Love couldn't hold a candle to Dwight if they went head to head with the exact same teammates. Have you ever watched DH rebound, some of the ones he grabs are down right impressive, that is not the same for Love, he just rebounds and then your like wow he has 20, I didn't even notice. PS I watch a decent amount of TWolves bball, not the whole games usually, but I have the ticket and peruse the games.

How awesome looking your rebound was doesn't give you extra points.
And I pride myself not being a homer. But 90+% of PSD hasn't watched a single Wolves game this year outside when they played their team.

The thing about Love, for me, is that I was calling how good he was going to be 3+ years ago, and had to fight tooth and nail to defend my opinion. So yes, I take it slightly personal, knowing I stuck by a guy who has basically exploded this season. And when he is in a winning situation soon enough, I will find it interesting when people flip their opinion.

Basketball purists actually love watching him rebound and play. He plays very old school, and plays using his mind. All that lack of athletic ability, and he still dominates games. Have you noticed the opponents now resorting to trying to just slap the ball away versus having to wrestly Love? Or how he gets double teamed on REBOUNDS? The league is aware he is the best out there at it.

D Roses Bulls
02-28-2011, 05:56 PM
How awesome looking your rebound was doesn't give you extra points.
And I pride myself not being a homer. But 90+% of PSD hasn't watched a single Wolves game this year outside when they played their team.

The thing about Love, for me, is that I was calling how good he was going to be 3+ years ago, and had to fight tooth and nail to defend my opinion. So yes, I take it slightly personal, knowing I stuck by a guy who has basically exploded this season. And when he is in a winning situation soon enough, I will find it interesting when people flip their opinion.

Basketball purists actually love watching him rebound and play. He plays very old school, and plays using his mind. All that lack of athletic ability, and he still dominates games. Have you noticed the opponents now resorting to trying to just slap the ball away versus having to wrestly Love? Or how he gets double teamed on REBOUNDS? The league is aware he is the best out there at it.

Oh come on now, were all homers here in some sort of way. but I do have to agree with the other guy, I know what the numbers are, but pound for pound howard is the better rebounder. let's see if love does with for at least two more seasons in a row before we start saying he is a better rebounder then a guy who basically has finished first or second in rebounds almost every year in the NBA since he has been in the league.

Hawkeye15
02-28-2011, 06:10 PM
Oh come on now, were all homers here in some sort of way. but I do have to agree with the other guy, I know what the numbers are, but pound for pound howard is the better rebounder. let's see if love does with for at least two more seasons in a row before we start saying he is a better rebounder then a guy who basically has finished first or second in rebounds almost every year in the NBA since he has been in the league.

If that is what you need to see. I will live with Love being the 4th best ever for rookie rebound rate, a better rebound rate in year 2 than Dwight had, and a better rebound rate by year 3 than Dwight has ever had.

But I understand some of you want to see it done longer. Nothing wrong with that. So do I obviously.

And as I said, I pride myself in being fair regarding my team and its players. I have always tried to do that here. I don't pull the homer card out, but I will defend a guy if I think the opinion are unjust.

TheDiggler
02-28-2011, 06:21 PM
Imo kevin Love gets Not enough credit. He Plays an outstanding season with great numbers, on a Team like the Wolves (no offense to the wolves and Fans). Improved himself drastically and is just "doing His work". I Never was that much of a Fan of him. But He really turned that around. I have huge respect for him and His perfomance.

Hustlenomics
02-28-2011, 10:13 PM
btw, who is grabbing all of Dwight's boards? Orlando is a weak rebounding team outside of him. Are his rebounding numbers inflated?

How bout Randolph's? Blakes? Who are they battling so hard against?? And Love is still blowing them all away in that department

lol no one's getting boards over dwight. Randolph competes with Marc, Blake has Jordan and Kaman that can get boards too

Hawkeye15
02-28-2011, 10:15 PM
lol no one's getting boards over dwight. Randolph competes with Marc, Blake has Jordan and Kaman that can get boards too

prove any of that. Seriously.