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valade16
02-25-2011, 12:11 AM
I Saw the Heat are now like 1-7 against the top teams in the league. This is not a heat hater thread, if that is your purpose go somewhere else.

That being said, why can't they beat the other good teams? I personally thought they would be rolling over the league...

Thoughts or explanations?

D Roses Bulls
02-25-2011, 12:13 AM
cause they don't have the depth. they will be a good regular season team, but finals..... I dont know bout that

stlbest5in2013
02-25-2011, 12:16 AM
because they dont have a team. they have no center that can add to anything, no pg, and no pf, bosh is a over sized sf, not hating him but thats what he is

marlinsfan24
02-25-2011, 12:21 AM
cause they don't have the depth. they will be a good regular season team, but finals..... I dont know bout that

That's if this current team is even around after March 1.

Heat will have major interest in Ford, Murphy, and Curry (hopefully not lol). If they can add Murphy and Ford and drop Howard and Magloire, and then get back Haslem and Miller, those supporting players won't look as bad.

Ford/Chalmers
Wade/Miller
James/Murphy
Bosh/Haslem
Dampier/Big Z/Anthony

bulldog312
02-25-2011, 12:22 AM
Because they primarily play a 1 on 1 style of play and good team defenses can usually stop that. Right now Lebron, Bosh, and Wade don't play off the ball well enough. It's too much of a stand and watch game.

I do think they are improving on that though.

Chronz
02-25-2011, 12:23 AM
To answer the Q its called bad luck.


cause they don't have the depth. they will be a good regular season team, but finals..... I dont know bout that

The reason you just gave is why they are a better playoff team than a regular season team. In the playoffs depth becomes less of a priority and the top rotations matter most.

LayZbone
02-25-2011, 12:23 AM
I feel like the depth question will be answered when we get Miller and Haslem back full-time. I dunno what it is. 4 of those losses came early during that 9-8 stretch, when we didn't have an identity. We were w/o Lebron & Bosh for one loss against Chicago. Boston beat us legit recently, and Chicago beat us legit tonight. So those are flags, and we need to watch those tapes. In fact, Bosh should be forced to watch his 1-18 performance 17 times straight, once for every miss.

Lim
02-25-2011, 12:24 AM
cuz its 3 on 5

JordansBulls
02-25-2011, 12:27 AM
I Saw the Heat are now like 1-7 against the top teams in the league. This is not a heat hater thread, if that is your purpose go somewhere else.

That being said, why can't they beat the other good teams? I personally thought they would be rolling over the league...

Thoughts or explanations?

They beat the Lakers and Magic.

hotpotato1092
02-25-2011, 12:27 AM
cuz its 3 on 5

No, at their BEST it's 3 on 5. In reality, one of them will always have at least a semi off night making it 2.5 on 5, or like tonight with Bosh where he counted for -.5, it was 1.5 on 5. Tonight's game was a microcosm of Miami's season. When LeBron and Bosh weren't hitting their shots, the Heat were done, but when Derrick Rose wasn't hitting his shots, guys like Ronnie Brewer and Luol Deng were there to pick him up.

kjoke
02-25-2011, 12:28 AM
To answer the Q its called bad luck.



The reason you just gave is why they are a better playoff team than a regular season team. In the playoffs depth becomes less of a priority and the top rotations matter most.

this

HuRRiCaNeS324
02-25-2011, 12:28 AM
Its the depth. Celtics have murdered us in that aspect. The Bulls just flat out beat us in two good, close games. Mavs rape us every year so no surprise there.

Its really not that big of a deal to be honest. We desperately need Haslem back and hopefully we can pick up 1 or 2 players that can potentially be bought out.

Tomorrow ESPN is again gonna blast us like always, which is frustrating as hell but good thing tomorrow is Friday and im barely gonna be home to see us get crucified (although it might drag onto the weekend as well)

Hustlenomics
02-25-2011, 12:28 AM
they slaughtered the Lakers and Magic this season

HuRRiCaNeS324
02-25-2011, 12:29 AM
I feel like the depth question will be answered when we get Miller and Haslem back full-time. I dunno what it is. 4 of those losses came early during that 9-8 stretch, when we didn't have an identity. We were w/o Lebron & Bosh for one loss against Chicago. Boston beat us legit recently, and Chicago beat us legit tonight. So those are flags, and we need to watch those tapes. In fact, Bosh should be forced to watch his 1-18 performance 17 times straight, once for every miss.

Yup, and this.

bulldog312
02-25-2011, 12:30 AM
they slaughtered the Lakers and Magic this season

The OP said elite teams ;)

Lakerhead4ever
02-25-2011, 12:31 AM
just because

flclfanman
02-25-2011, 12:31 AM
8 Heat players suited up for tonight.

Lack of bench depth and production will kill any team, especially hopeful title contenders. This team lives and dies by the Big 3. If they can keep carrying the load they'll win but a weak bench will kill them in the playoffs or (I hope not :pray:) a sudden injury to a starter.

bovice163
02-25-2011, 12:32 AM
Guys, you were without LeBron the first time you played us for HALF OF A QUARTER. I agree, when Haslem comes back he adds toughness, defense, and rebounding to the Heat. You guys lost fair and square 2 games against the Bulls. Technically with the way Bosh played tonight, it's like he wasn't in the game anyway.

Dnovakovic099
02-25-2011, 12:32 AM
Yea I would agree that it is because no one can help LeBron and Wade, but I think this should be a positive for the Heat. They might not win a championship this year but imagine once they add a pg and center, but with the new CBA coupled with the Knicks and Nets growing I don't know that Miami will be the only one with 2.5 superstars on their respective teams. The Knicks are a half a star away and the Bulls are a star away, but the Bulls have an amazing cast of players to help Rose and Boozer. The Nets are obviously a little farther away, but with the NBA going the way it is I wouldn't doubt the Nets getting a couple of stars in the next few years.

Also, I think the Heat need a more offensive minded coach. Spolstra either can't get throught to these guys or his plays just suck, but is it me or do the Heat score almost all of their points on athleticism and none on plays?

Lakerhead4ever
02-25-2011, 12:32 AM
jk but seriously, thats a easy question..just look at their box score. tells you everything you need to know

Jahari Kavi
02-25-2011, 12:33 AM
I feel like the depth question will be answered when we get Miller and Haslem back full-time. I dunno what it is. 4 of those losses came early during that 9-8 stretch, when we didn't have an identity. We were w/o Lebron & Bosh for one loss against Chicago. Boston beat us legit recently, and Chicago beat us legit tonight. So those are flags, and we need to watch those tapes. In fact, Bosh should be forced to watch his 1-18 performance 17 times straight, once for every miss.

this

hotpotato1092
02-25-2011, 12:35 AM
Because they primarily play a 1 on 1 style of play and good team defenses can usually stop that. Right now Lebron, Bosh, and Wade don't play off the ball well enough. It's too much of a stand and watch game.

I do think they are improving on that though.

This is a HUGE reason why they've had their "struggles". What people never seemed to question when they teamed up was can these guys do the little things? Through no fault of their own, they've never had to learn how to set a screen, or move without the ball, things like that, because they've simply always been so much better than everyone else that nobody ever bothered to teach them. They've grown up with the ball in their hands because nobody was ever good enough to take it away from them, so coaches throughout their childhood and early years in the league solely taught them on ball technique. But now they have to learn these things because they have to share the ball. Against teams like Minnesota or New Jersey this isn't a problem, LeBron and Wade can beat them off the dribble all night, but when they're playing elite defensive teams like Chicago or Boston they'll know how to exploit it. So until this weakness is shored up I think they'll have major problems against Chicago and Boston, who not only have great defensive players, but two of the best defensive game planners in the league (Tom Thibadeau and Lawrence Frank).

Tmath
02-25-2011, 12:36 AM
This is why http://video.thescore.com/watch/bosh-goes-down-easily
:facepalm:

HuRRiCaNeS324
02-25-2011, 12:37 AM
Yea I would agree that it is because no one can help LeBron and Wade, but I think this should be a positive for the Heat. They might not win a championship this year but imagine once they add a pg and center, but with the new CBA coupled with the Knicks and Nets growing I don't know that Miami will be the only one with 2.5 superstars on their respective teams. The Knicks are a half a star away and the Bulls are a star away, but the Bulls have an amazing cast of players to help Rose and Boozer. The Nets are obviously a little farther away, but with the NBA going the way it is I wouldn't doubt the Nets getting a couple of stars in the next few years.

Also, I think the Heat need a more offensive minded coach. Spolstra either can't get throught to these guys or his plays just suck, but is it me or do the Heat score almost all of their points on athleticism and none on plays?

Yea hopefully this is the only year in which we heavily rely on the big 3.

Also, the Knicks and Nets are not even close to being able to sign another star player. They both are like 6-8 million off from being able to sign someone to a max deal and it could be even more depending on the new CBA.

All we need is to sign a Cor PG for the MLE and we are set.

D Roses Bulls
02-25-2011, 12:37 AM
To answer the Q its called bad luck.



The reason you just gave is why they are a better playoff team than a regular season team. In the playoffs depth becomes less of a priority and the top rotations matter most.

Oh trust me, I know. no one preaches that more on here then me, but they still will need some sort of depth in the playoffs. most playoff teams use a 8-10 man rotation, so you still need 5-7 guys to be able to do it as well and i dont see it from miami

xxcubs22xx
02-25-2011, 12:38 AM
They "can't beat an elite team" because:

1. Bias in the small sample size (1-7)
2. Injuries combined with a bench weaker than most of those teams
3. An offense corner stoned by ISO

They just happened to go 1-7 or whatnot. That doesn't mean that they can't beat elite teams, it just means that perhaps they haven't up to this point. Things can't go your way all the time. They need guys to hit their shots

HuRRiCaNeS324
02-25-2011, 12:39 AM
dbl post, holy **** PSD is laggy today.

HuRRiCaNeS324
02-25-2011, 12:40 AM
Oh trust me, I know. no one preaches that more on here then me, but they still will need some sort of depth in the playoffs. most playoff teams use a 8-10 man rotation, so you still need 5-7 guys to be able to do it as well and i dont see it from miami

Wade
Lebron
Bosh
Haslem
Miller
Chalmers
Dampier
House
(hopefully either Murphy, Ford, Przybilla, or Bibby (doubt it))

Thats enough but we need to be more consistent throughout the entire game.

ne3xchamps
02-25-2011, 12:40 AM
cause they don't have the depth. they will be a good regular season team, but finals..... I dont know bout that

you hit the nail right on the head.

marlinsfan24
02-25-2011, 12:40 AM
They "can't beat an elite team" because:

1. Bias in the small sample size (1-7)
2. Injuries combined with a bench weaker than most of those teams
3. An offense corner stoned by ISO

They just happened to go 1-7 or whatnot. That doesn't mean that they can't beat elite teams, it just means that perhaps they haven't up to this point. Things can't go your way all the time. They need guys to hit their shots

:clap::clap::clap:

HuRRiCaNeS324
02-25-2011, 12:41 AM
They "can't beat an elite team" because:

1. Bias in the small sample size (1-7)
2. Injuries combined with a bench weaker than most of those teams
3. An offense corner stoned by ISO

They just happened to go 1-7 or whatnot. That doesn't mean that they can't beat elite teams, it just means that perhaps they haven't up to this point. Things can't go your way all the time. They need guys to hit their shots

Good ****ing post.

icej
02-25-2011, 12:42 AM
cuz its 3 on 5

And tonight its 2 on 6 - Bosh is the 6th.

Byronicle
02-25-2011, 12:42 AM
you got to be elite to beat them

hotpotato1092
02-25-2011, 12:44 AM
Yea hopefully this is the only year in which we heavily rely on the big 3.

Also, the Knicks and Nets are not even close to being able to sign another star player. They both are like 6-8 million off from being able to sign someone to a max deal and it could be even more depending on the new CBA.

All we need is to sign a C or PG for the MLE and we are set.

5 years ago that would be entirely true, but there probably won't be an MLE under the next CBA, so in order for them to get even one of those needs filled they'd need a steal in the draft, someone to take a MASSIVE paycut (unlikely), or most likely a trade of Bosh. They just don't have anything else worth trading, nobody's taking on Miller's contract if there's a hard cap. I predict that sooner or later they're going to have to make that hard choice of keeping the third star or building a true team. My guess is Bosh becomes the 4th major player available during the summer of 2012, and he ends up traded to a team that misses out on D12, of course this is all speculation and for all I know they could win 70 games and the title next year. Just a thought.

gotoHcarolina52
02-25-2011, 12:44 AM
They "can't beat an elite team" because:

1. Bias in the small sample size (1-7)
2. Injuries combined with a bench weaker than most of those teams
3. An offense corner stoned by ISO

They just happened to go 1-7 or whatnot. That doesn't mean that they can't beat elite teams, it just means that perhaps they haven't up to this point. Things can't go your way all the time. They need guys to hit their shots

You hit the nail on the head. Spoelstra's offensive schemes (or lack thereof) are painful to watch. Our half-court offense is putrid. Absolute garbage.

More specifically about tonight, though: most any team will have a hard time pulling out a win when it has someone on the floor going 1-18 (a corpse that can pass is preferred to someone chucking up 17 flat shots) and the team is 2-12 from 3. :facepalm:

HuRRiCaNeS324
02-25-2011, 12:45 AM
Theres gonna be an MLE...

Nikeman
02-25-2011, 12:48 AM
I've said it all season long..

3 vs 5 and you will struggle against elite teams.

They are missing the two most important positions in C/PG

Also, they only have three players that give consistent production. Outside of Bosh/Wade/LBJ you do not know what you are going to get.

bulldog312
02-25-2011, 12:48 AM
Theres gonna be an MLE...

Maybe, maybe not. I definitely don't expect it to be the same. I fully expect teams over the spft cap to be more restricted.

assisi805
02-25-2011, 12:49 AM
This just in TNT cast considering NBA comeback.. Reggie miller has reportedly signed a 10 day contract with the OKC thunder.. Kenny smith is taking his talents to south beach on veterans minimum signing.. and the big man Charles Barkly will also being laying on a beach by day and teaming with Dwayne wade for more commercials at night as he signs 10 day contract with Miami Heat.

hotpotato1092
02-25-2011, 12:49 AM
Theres gonna be an MLE...

We obviously can't know for sure, but it's very likely that there either won't be one, or it will be substantially reduced. First of all if there's a hard cap there are no exceptions period. Second of all even if they stick with a soft cap, the owners want to make it harder and slash salaries, so the first two things they'll look at are reducing max contracts (heavily reported) and removing or reducing the mid level exception to prevent teams from overpaying unworthy players, and to prevent teams who already spend more than the rest of the league from spending more. So even if there is an MLE, I'd suspect that it's slashed substantially.

Nikeman
02-25-2011, 12:50 AM
This just in TNT cast considering NBA comeback.. Reggie miller has reportedly signed a 10 day contract with the OKC thunder.. Kenny smith is taking his talents to south beach on veterans minimum signing.. and the big man Charles Barkly will also being laying on a beach by day and teaming with Dwayne wade for more commercials at night as he signs 10 day contract with Miami Heat.

What are you contributing?

I'm sorry but your jokes aren't even funny.

Iron24th
02-25-2011, 12:51 AM
The OP said elite teams ;)

I guess you're kidding.

Stuckey#3
02-25-2011, 12:51 AM
I Saw the Heat are now like 1-7 against the top teams in the league. This is not a heat hater thread, if that is your purpose go somewhere else.

That being said, why can't they beat the other good teams? I personally thought they would be rolling over the league...

Thoughts or explanations?

Because in order to beat an elite team you need a substantial point, a decent center and a good bench... Miami has none of the above. I feel for D-Wade but the rest of them did this to themselves.

HuRRiCaNeS324
02-25-2011, 12:52 AM
I may be wrong, but doesn't the league get money because of the MLE? When teams go over the cap and have to pay luxury tax, doesn't the league basically get all that money??

assisi805
02-25-2011, 12:53 AM
What are you contributing?

I'm sorry but your jokes aren't even funny.

Some Cranky

gotoHcarolina52
02-25-2011, 12:53 AM
I may be wrong, but doesn't the league get money because of the MLE? When teams go over the cap and have to pay luxury tax, doesn't the league basically get all that money??

MLE is good for most involved. Will likely be retained.

D Roses Bulls
02-25-2011, 12:55 AM
Wade

Wade (Fixed)
Lebron
Bosh
Haslem
Miller
Chalmers
Dampier
House
(hopefully either Murphy, Ford, Przybilla, or Bibby (doubt it))

Thats enough but we need to be more consistent throughout the entire game.

those guys will come through most likely, but they might not, but the reason i left haslem off was because he will be just getting back from injury. he will be rusty like nelson was 2 years ago vs the lakers. the rest, well you might get a good game from each of them but id be scared if they were my bench players

HuRRiCaNeS324
02-25-2011, 12:56 AM
those guys will come through most likely, but they might not, but the reason i left haslem off was because he will be just getting back from injury. he will be rusty like nelson was 2 years ago vs the lakers. the rest, well you might get a good game from each of them but id be scared if they were my bench players

Naw, Haslem is coming back March. He will be ready.

Car Ramrod
02-25-2011, 12:57 AM
They can't stop a good point guard and are soft in the middle.

marlinsfan24
02-25-2011, 12:57 AM
those guys will come through most likely, but they might not, but the reason i left haslem off was because he will be just getting back from injury. he will be rusty like nelson was 2 years ago vs the lakers. the rest, well you might get a good game from each of them but id be scared if they were my bench players

Haslem will be back in mid to late March, so come playoff time, there should be no excuse for him not to be ready to go at full strength IMO. Now if there's a delay, that's a different story.

icej
02-25-2011, 12:58 AM
Przybilla should be enough for Mia if they get him, it doesn have to be murphy IMO coz he is a PF with Bosh and Haslem there that is a crowd in PT, while Przybilla is a pretty good upgrade to Dampier -who is Mia's best current C IMO, Przy and Damp shoud be enough.

Tonight the Bulls killed them in Offensive Rebound specially when Damp is out, that should tell you where the hole is.

dnewguy
02-25-2011, 12:58 AM
The Heat losses to elite teams are all close, I wont consider the Bulls a elite team though because they cant beat us in a 7 game series. lets not forget that those 2 games we lost came down to the stretch and a lucky 3 point shot in both games. We just started Dampier at C, we're still experimenting but we'll be ready.

CityofTreez
02-25-2011, 01:00 AM
They can beat elite teams.

Put them in the playoffs, and they're scarier than they are in the regular season.

RZZZA
02-25-2011, 01:00 AM
They can't stop a good point guard and are soft in the middle.

They seemed to stop Rose pretty good today, double and triple teaming him with real athletic players tends to work, but Rose is such a player that he's getting 20+/5/5 even on an awful night.

krazylegz
02-25-2011, 01:01 AM
cause they arent that good???...i dont know

Rndy
02-25-2011, 01:02 AM
Haslem will help on defense and depth for sure. But I'm not really sure what he brings differently on the offensive end. He's not a post player either something Miami has needed all season. Haslem is a PF with a career 500 eFG% not exactly a missing piece. He does rebound a lot better then Bosh so that should help.

assisi805
02-25-2011, 01:03 AM
The Heat losses to elite teams are all close, I wont consider the Bulls a elite team though because they cant beat us in a 7 game series. lets not forget that those 2 games we lost came down to the stretch and a lucky 3 point shot in both games. We just started Dampier at C, we're still experimenting but we'll be ready.


We'll you keep considering them a "non elite" team. While your doing that their going to continue to sneak up and smack you. And im not even a full out bulls fan.. Thats just basketball! As long as Chicago has a front count with Deng, Booze, Noah. Miami will continue to lose. Even if it comes down to 7 lucky 3's a W is a W. Sorry buddy. Chicago is the hands down better team all around.

Nikeman
02-25-2011, 01:04 AM
They seemed to stop Rose pretty good today, double and triple teaming him with real athletic players tends to work, but Rose is such a player that he's getting 20+/5/5 even on an awful night.

Such a good player? He is a good player, but I think any player can get 20+ pts if they take 24 shots...

godolphins
02-25-2011, 01:04 AM
1-7 :confused: The Heat beat the Magic twice, Lakers once and Thunders once

bovice163
02-25-2011, 01:04 AM
The Heat losses to elite teams are all close, I wont consider the Bulls a elite team though because they cant beat us in a 7 game series. lets not forget that those 2 games we lost came down to the stretch and a lucky 3 point shot in both games. We just started Dampier at C, we're still experimenting but we'll be ready.

There was no luck involved. Korver is a great shooter, and he knocks down shots under pressure. Luol was left wide open on the wing and he knocked it down. If Dampier is the difference maker for you guys then good luck in the playoffs.

dnewguy
02-25-2011, 01:05 AM
We'll you keep considering them a "non elite" team. While your doing that their going to continue to sneak up and smack you. And im not even a full out bulls fan.. Thats just basketball! As long as Chicago has a front count with Deng, Booze, Noah. Miami will continue to lose. Even if it comes down to 7 lucky 3's a W is a W. Sorry buddy. Chicago is the hands down better team all around.

He who laughs last, laugh longest. We shall see come play-offs.

godolphins
02-25-2011, 01:06 AM
The Heat had the same problem in 2006 against elite teams

RZZZA
02-25-2011, 01:06 AM
Such a good player? He is a good player, but I think any player can get 20+ pts if they take 24 shots...

definitely not a good night for him, and he's been in a bit of a slump himself except for that Spurs game, but he does average 25 ppg and 8 assists.

Nikeman
02-25-2011, 01:06 AM
We'll you keep considering them a "non elite" team. While your doing that their going to continue to sneak up and smack you. And im not even a full out bulls fan.. Thats just basketball! As long as Chicago has a front count with Deng, Booze, Noah. Miami will continue to lose. Even if it comes down to 7 lucky 3's a W is a W. Sorry buddy. Chicago is the hands down better team all around.

I agree bro.. Heat fans that keep using the excuse that "Miami will win a 7 game series" are stupid.

The Bulls have the better all around team.

That being said, Miami is still figuring things out, and I expect them to improve greatly, and hopefully land some new talent before the playoffs.

I think you can agree that Miami will easily be the most talented roster in the NBA playoffs, they just have to figure out how to put that talent to best use.

valade16
02-25-2011, 01:07 AM
1-7 :confused: The Heat beat the Magic twice, Lakers once and Thunders once

It was an ingame stat I saw. Apparently they didn't consider the Magic or Thunder "elite" teams...

icej
02-25-2011, 01:07 AM
They can't stop a good point guard and are soft in the middle.

Tonight in all fairness, Rio played a good D on Rose.

Watch their Defense closely every game, and you'll see it's actually wade that is always gambling on defense that is the reason why some guards thrive against Mia.

I love wade, but spo or someone in MIA should call that out, star or no star, for their teams benefit. Or a couple more costly games like tonight would haunt them come playoffs.

Giantwarrior
02-25-2011, 01:08 AM
they cant lose the game. The ball needs to go to wade in the last 2 min

Nikeman
02-25-2011, 01:09 AM
definitely not a good night for him, and he's been in a bit of a slump himself except for that Spurs game, but he does average 25 ppg and 8 assists.

Yes, he does average 25 ppg, but shoots under 45% and takes 20 shots a game.

Rose is not the most efficient player..

bulldog312
02-25-2011, 01:09 AM
It was an ingame stat I saw. Apparently they didn't consider the Magic or Thunder "elite" teams...

I believe it was against the top 6 teams in the league.

Car Ramrod
02-25-2011, 01:10 AM
They seemed to stop Rose pretty good today, double and triple teaming him with real athletic players tends to work, but Rose is such a player that he's getting 20+/5/5 even on an awful night.

He will shred them.

The only reason Miami was even in the game against Boston was that Rondo stopped taking it to the hole.

I would just get Lebron or Wade in foul trouble and have your way.

But honestly look at what the elite point guards have done to the Heat. They can't stop a good distributing point guard.

godolphins
02-25-2011, 01:10 AM
It was an ingame stat I saw. Apparently they didn't consider the Magic or Thunder "elite" teams...
If the Thunders and Magic aren't consider elite neither are the Bulls

bulldog312
02-25-2011, 01:12 AM
Yes, he does average 25 ppg, but shoots under 45% and takes 20 shots a game.

Rose is not the most efficient player..

He's not extremely efficient, but he isn't inefficient either. He still has above average efficiency. And he still creates tons of opportunities for everyone else around him, both directly and indirectly.

Chronz
02-25-2011, 01:12 AM
Oh trust me, I know. no one preaches that more on here then me, but they still will need some sort of depth in the playoffs. most playoff teams use a 8-10 man rotation, so you still need 5-7 guys to be able to do it as well and i dont see it from miami
Dont know about a 10 man rotation, all they need is a solid 7-8. Udonis should help in that department.

valade16
02-25-2011, 01:12 AM
I believe it was against the top 6 teams in the league.

Thanks for the clarification.

^ godolphins, it was vs the top 6 teams record wise in the league

RZZZA
02-25-2011, 01:13 AM
Yes, he does average 25 ppg, but shoots under 45% and takes 20 shots a game.

Rose is not the most efficient player..

he loves taking difficult long range jumpers at random times in games :facepalm: He's working on it, I'm confident he'll become a great shooter one day. Look at how he's improved from 3 this season compared to last season. He also loves to take impossible half court shots at the end of quarters all the time, killing his stats.

He didnt have a great, statement game like vs the Spurs but Rose is better than what you saw tonight just like Bosh is better than what we saw

YoungOne
02-25-2011, 01:13 AM
That's if this current team is even around after March 1.

Heat will have major interest in Ford, Murphy, and Curry (hopefully not lol). If they can add Murphy and Ford and drop Howard and Magloire, and then get back Haslem and Miller, those supporting players won't look as bad.

Ford/Chalmers
Wade/Miller
James/Murphy
Bosh/Haslem
Dampier/Big Z/Anthony

murphy at sf? :D

bulldog312
02-25-2011, 01:13 AM
If the Thunders and Magic aren't consider elite neither are the Bulls

Yeah, even though the gap in the standings between the Bulls and Magic is twice that of the Bulls and Heat :rolleyes:

godolphins
02-25-2011, 01:13 AM
Our bench suck doggie ****

FlashMacker
02-25-2011, 01:13 AM
The Heat had the same problem in 2006 against elite teams

I was just about to say that. And then in the playoffs when it matters, they got the job done.

Nikeman
02-25-2011, 01:14 AM
He's not extremely efficient, but he isn't inefficient either. He still has above average efficiency. And he still creates tons of opportunities for everyone else around him, both directly and indirectly.

Above average efficiency yes, but not elite.


That is why in my book D-Rose is not the MVP of the league, but thats a whole diff story.

Congrats to Bulls fans and Chi-town on the win.

godolphins
02-25-2011, 01:15 AM
Yeah, even though the gap in the standings between the Bulls and Magic is twice that of the Bulls and Heat :rolleyes:

Like I said before If the Thunders and Magic aren't consider elite neither are the Bulls

Rdy2PlayBall
02-25-2011, 01:16 AM
Heat forum

DaBear
02-25-2011, 01:16 AM
Like I said before If the Thunders and Magic aren't consider elite neither are the Bulls

Bulls > Thunder and Magic

FlashMacker
02-25-2011, 01:17 AM
Like I said before If the Thunders and Magic aren't consider elite neither are the Bulls

I don't know why people don't consider those teams elite :confused:

sargon21
02-25-2011, 01:18 AM
Bulls > Thunder and Magic

and bulls are at least = to the heat

valade16
02-25-2011, 01:18 AM
Above average efficiency yes, but not elite.


That is why in my book D-Rose is not the MVP of the league, but thats a whole diff story.

Congrats to Bulls fans and Chi-town on the win.

Just curious, who do you think is?

I must admit I scoffed at the idea of him for MVP but I've been able to catch a lot more Bulls games (as well as NBA games in general) and I haven't seen anyone play as well as him when it matters.

He had that great clutch jumper and that "lucky" 3 was actually a wide open shot because of Rose's great drive and pass (and Wades terrible D on the play).

He's my MVP thus far just because I can't think of anyone else who deserves it more... Only guy who comes to mind is Dirk

D1JM
02-25-2011, 01:20 AM
To answer the Q its called bad luck.



The reason you just gave is why they are a better playoff team than a regular season team. In the playoffs depth becomes less of a priority and the top rotations matter most.

so why cant they beat teams now if thats the cause? they only play with 8-9 man rotation

marlinsfan24
02-25-2011, 01:20 AM
Heat forum

Wasn't made by a Heat fan.

valade16
02-25-2011, 01:21 AM
I don't know why people don't consider those teams elite :confused:

This is confusion caused by my mistake. I thought the stat said vs elite teams when it said vs top 6 nba teams.
Also to the guy who says bulls > thunder and magic, that doesn't necessarily make them elite either.

I think if you consider one elite, you should consider all elite.

Giantwarrior
02-25-2011, 01:21 AM
Lebron cant close. same thing happened when he was on the Cavs.

valade16
02-25-2011, 01:22 AM
Wasn't made by a Heat fan.

Exactly, and I'm not goin to the heat forum to discuss this, no disrespect to heat fans:D

godolphins
02-25-2011, 01:23 AM
and bulls are at least = to the heat

:laugh:

D1JM
02-25-2011, 01:25 AM
I was just about to say that. And then in the playoffs when it matters, they got the job done.

refs

Nikeman
02-25-2011, 01:26 AM
Just curious, who do you think is?

I must admit I scoffed at the idea of him for MVP but I've been able to catch a lot more Bulls games (as well as NBA games in general) and I haven't seen anyone play as well as him when it matters.

He had that great clutch jumper and that "lucky" 3 was actually a wide open shot because of Rose's great drive and pass (and Wades terrible D on the play).

He's my MVP thus far just because I can't think of anyone else who deserves it more... Only guy who comes to mind is Dirk

Well, in terms of efficiency, LBJ and DH12 are the most efficient players in the game, and I would be fine with either of them as MVP. Rose is ranked 12th in efficiency.

Seeing how LBJ led those Cavs to 60 win seasons, and without much of a roster overhaul, him simply leaving caused them to set the record NBA losing streak, that in my opinion shows he is the MVP.

droalex
02-25-2011, 01:26 AM
Late game execution

godolphins
02-25-2011, 01:26 AM
Bulls > Thunder and Magic

Another :laugh: + :pity:

godolphins
02-25-2011, 01:29 AM
refs
As long as you pay them properly they'll take care of business

sargon21
02-25-2011, 01:29 AM
:laugh:

2-0, so what we're better?

bovice163
02-25-2011, 01:30 AM
As long as you pay them properly they'll take care of business

lol so true

valade16
02-25-2011, 01:32 AM
Well, in terms of efficiency, LBJ and DH12 are the most efficient players in the game, and I would be fine with either of them as MVP. Rose is ranked 12th in efficiency.

Seeing how LBJ led those Cavs to 60 win seasons, and without much of a roster overhaul, him simply leaving caused them to set the record NBA losing streak, that in my opinion shows he is the MVP.

What stat do you use to measure efficiency? I don't think advanced stats should be the end-all be-all. There's an advanced stat (Ortg I think) that has kiki as a better offensive player than Jordan, obviously they can be flawed.

And yes the Cavs suck now, but that is a determination off 2 seasons when the MVP measures just this year. Using that justification LBJ should win it every year until a guy leaves a 60+ win team and they suck worse than the Cavs...

Also, just this didn't the Mavs absolutely suck and lose like 7 straight games without Nowitzki? How do we know they wouldn't be the new Cavs if Dirk left?

My MVP list is:

1 Rose
2 Dirk
3 Howard
4 Aldridge (*homer underrated pick)

Chronz
02-25-2011, 01:33 AM
so why cant they beat teams now if thats the cause? they only play with 8-9 man rotation
You meant to say elite teams right? The reason I gave for that wasnt the depth issue. That was with regards to their regular season performance vs their post season performance. Theres no question their rotations will get tighter in the playoffs and the additions of Udonis and a more acclimated Mike Miller will get the bulk of those minutes.

The reason I gave for lack of success vs elite teams was simple bad luck. I dont find success against a select group to be more indicative of a teams title chances than how they fare all year against everyone. When you look at small sample sizes you can infer all sorts of oblique trends. If you wanted to take anything out of these games all that matters is that they are in them.

Gritz
02-25-2011, 01:33 AM
They don't have any bench. In this game their bench didn't score for the last 38 mins of the game...WOW

All it takes is one of the three to have an off game if the bench is going to be that unproductive, as Chris Bosh did tonight, and its hard for them to win.

Hiphopopotamus
02-25-2011, 01:34 AM
Well, in terms of efficiency, LBJ and DH12 are the most efficient players in the game, and I would be fine with either of them as MVP. Rose is ranked 12th in efficiency.

Seeing how LBJ led those Cavs to 60 win seasons, and without much of a roster overhaul, him simply leaving caused them to set the record NBA losing streak, that in my opinion shows he is the MVP.

Advanced stats, metrics can only take you so far....if a player is inefficient, with good gross numbers on a loser I see your point, but that's not the case with Rose. The stats don't measure him crushing souls in the 4th quarter consistently.

justinnum1
02-25-2011, 01:36 AM
You meant to say elite teams right? The reason I gave for that wasnt the depth issue. That was with regards to their regular season performance vs their post season performance. Theres no question their rotations will get tighter in the playoffs and the additions of Udonis and a more acclimated Mike Miller will get the bulk of those minutes.

The reason I gave for lack of success vs elite teams was simple bad luck. I dont find success against a select group to be more indicative of a teams title chances than how they fare all year against everyone. When you look at small sample sizes you can infer all sorts of oblique trends. If you wanted to take anything out of these games all that matters is that they are in them.

nice post

godolphins
02-25-2011, 01:36 AM
2-0, so what we're better?
The Knicks are 2-0 against the Bulls, so what they're better?

I thought you were going to put me on your ignore list? Go do it!!! :laugh2:

Hiphopopotamus
02-25-2011, 01:39 AM
What stat do you use to measure efficiency? I don't think advanced stats should be the end-all be-all. There's an advanced stat (Ortg I think) that has kiki as a better offensive player than Jordan, obviously they can be flawed.
And yes the Cavs suck now, but that is a determination off 2 seasons when the MVP measures just this year. Using that justification LBJ should win it every year until a guy leaves a 60+ win team and they suck worse than the Cavs...

Also, just this didn't the Mavs absolutely suck and lose like 7 straight games without Nowitzki? How do we know they wouldn't be the new Cavs if Dirk left?

My MVP list is:

1 Rose
2 Dirk
3 Howard
4 Aldridge (*homer underrated pick)

That's so funny. Also the one I noticed was EWA (estimated wins added)...Kevin Love's is 13.7 but the wolves only have 13 wins total...I may be have misunderstood how EWA works, but that seems odd. P.S. I was way impressed with your boy LA when I watched him the other day, man he has turned into a beast.

Chronz
02-25-2011, 01:40 AM
What stat do you use to measure efficiency? I don't think advanced stats should be the end-all be-all. There's an advanced stat (Ortg I think) that has kiki as a better offensive player than Jordan, obviously they can be flawed.
Your misreading the stat. OFF.RTG measures Per Possession Efficiency, without accounting for usage what youve just done is essentially the same as saying Tyson Chandler is a better offensive player than Derrick Rose based on his higher FG%.


Also, just this didn't the Mavs absolutely suck and lose like 7 straight games without Nowitzki? How do we know they wouldn't be the new Cavs if Dirk left?

What your attempting to quantify is replacement value and this does play a role in determining ones "value" to his team but its still only part of the equation. Also what do people base their opinion of this on? A random sample of games or how the team performs throughout the year with and without the player on the court?


My MVP list is:

1 Rose
2 Dirk
3 Howard
4 Aldridge (*homer underrated pick)

I got Bron, Dwight, Dirk, Wade, Kobe, Rose

valade16
02-25-2011, 01:42 AM
You meant to say elite teams right? The reason I gave for that wasnt the depth issue. That was with regards to their regular season performance vs their post season performance. Theres no question their rotations will get tighter in the playoffs and the additions of Udonis and a more acclimated Mike Miller will get the bulk of those minutes.

The reason I gave for lack of success vs elite teams was simple bad luck. I dont find success against a select group to be more indicative of a teams title chances than how they fare all year against everyone. When you look at small sample sizes you can infer all sorts of oblique trends. If you wanted to take anything out of these games all that matters is that they are in them.

I mostly agree with what your saying.

But are you saying how a team does vs a specific team isn't indicative of how they will do against that same team (assuming the players stay relatively the same)?

For instance the Blazers have beat the Twolves 16 straight times. But to you the sample size is so small that's not suggestive they will beat the Twolves in a series?

Just trying to pin down your point...

Lakers3747
02-25-2011, 01:42 AM
like KD said about Bosh that he was a fake tough guy u could really say that about everyone on that team they get punked in the paint im not trying to hate but no one is scared of Bosh & Big Z wat they need is a big nasty center

Hiphopopotamus
02-25-2011, 01:43 AM
Heat fans, what's the story with Mike Miller, has he looked good in his short minutes so far? I thought he would be the x factor for your team.

Hiphopopotamus
02-25-2011, 01:44 AM
like KD said about Bosh that he was a fake tough guy u could really say that about everyone on that team they get punked in the paint im not trying to hate but no one is scared of Bosh & Big Z wat they need is a big nasty center

Imagine if the Heat had got someone like Kendrick Perkins at the deadline....scary

godolphins
02-25-2011, 01:44 AM
Miami better hit the waiver wire hard

valade16
02-25-2011, 01:45 AM
That's so funny. Also the one I noticed was EWA (estimated wins added)...Kevin Love's is 13.7 but the wolves only have 13 wins total...I may be have misunderstood how EWA works, but that seems odd. P.S. I was way impressed with your boy LA when I watched him the other day, man he has turned into a beast.

Yes LMA has. He's literally carried the Blazers on his back.

It's no surprise that when the Lakers doubled him the entire 4th the Blazers couldn't score a bucket in the final 4:30 of the game.

godolphins
02-25-2011, 01:47 AM
Heat fans, what's the story with Mike Miller, has he looked good in his short minutes so far? I thought he would be the x factor for your team.
He's currently out with a inner ear infection

Kobes a Killer
02-25-2011, 01:49 AM
Last place in the league for bench scoring, need better bigs, and a PG couldn't hurt. 2 points off the bench tonight, obviously that's just not gonna cut it. Getting haslem back will help... But not against Boston, he's still undersized. Mike miller needs to step it up. No finals this year for Miami IMO. No finals for a few years if they don't get lucky and pick up some good role players

valade16
02-25-2011, 01:51 AM
Your misreading the stat. OFF.RTG measures Per Possession Efficiency, without accounting for usage what youve just done is essentially the same as saying Tyson Chandler is a better offensive player than Derrick Rose based on his higher FG%.


What your attempting to quantify is replacement value and this does play a role in determining ones "value" to his team but its still only part of the equation. Also what do people base their opinion of this on? A random sample of games or how the team performs throughout the year with and without the player on the court?


I got Bron, Dwight, Dirk, Wade, Kobe, Rose

Well doesn't per possession efficiency measure their efficiency when they get the ball, and usage measure how often they get the ball?

On that note, per posession kiki Should still not have a better Ortg nor could you convince me that when he touches the Ball he's more efficient on offense than Jordan.

But that could be me not understanding how the 2 stats interact with each other.

Judging by this last game (though 1 game isn't a good way to measure an MVP but this last game was a microcasm for LBJs play in the clutch this year) during "crunch time" in crucial moments he tries to do too much and forces up bad shots, and I just can't see him as MVP.

Just me though. Also curious to see if you think LMA is in the top 10 for MVP consideration with his 26 and 10 since mid-Dec (when roy went out) and the Blazers better play since that period

Chronz
02-25-2011, 01:55 AM
I mostly agree with what your saying.

But are you saying how a team does vs a specific team isn't indicative of how they will do against that same team (assuming the players stay relatively the same)?

For instance the Blazers have beat the Twolves 16 straight times. But to you the sample size is so small that's not suggestive they will beat the Twolves in a series?

Just trying to pin down your point...
I dont know about specific teams but considering thats an even smaller sample Id put less faith in it. So long as they dont get blown out I wouldnt put much stock in it.

As for your comparison, the Twolves have had different lineups over the years so how does that factor in? If the 2 teams could stay relatively the same over a large enough span then it would matter but teams are rarely the same for that long. Like imagine looking at the Bulls success rate when Noah and Rose were infants, it would be meaningless at this point. 5 years from now on if the core remains the same and they continuously beat Miami then Id care.

Kobes a Killer
02-25-2011, 01:55 AM
Avenged you're in this thread why aren't you deleting u mad posts, mine got deleted

Kobes a Killer
02-25-2011, 01:56 AM
Hey I think you just deleted one, good job bud!

Kobes a Killer
02-25-2011, 02:00 AM
Ha ha oh avenged you son of a gun, I'm just gonna start saying, are you angry?

Lakers3747
02-25-2011, 02:01 AM
Imagine if the Heat had got someone like Kendrick Perkins at the deadline....scary

that would have been a perfect guy for them he doesnt mind putting someone on their *** if they come across the paint he would add that needed toughness they need look at wat is hapening to Boston right now i know its only one game but this is the first time i don't see Kevin Garrnet running his mouth during the game now he knows he doesnt have Perkins to back him up

Chi StateOfMind
02-25-2011, 02:03 AM
b/c they are 2 dimensional...wade and lebron...during the game tonight they scored like 30 sumthin straight points and everyone else standing around missin and poundin sand and you dont win like that....its a TEAM GAME!!!!!!!

valade16
02-25-2011, 02:05 AM
I dont know about specific teams but considering thats an even smaller sample Id put less faith in it. So long as they dont get blown out I wouldnt put much stock in it.

As for your comparison, the Twolves have had different lineups over the years so how does that factor in? If the 2 teams could stay relatively the same over a large enough span then it would matter but teams are rarely the same for that long. Like imagine looking at the Bulls success rate when Noah and Rose were infants, it would be meaningless at this point. 5 years from now on if the core remains the same and they continuously beat Miami then Id care.

The blazers/twolves was a bad example precisely because of the lineup changes.

What do you consider a large enough sample size to make a determination (just as a generality)?

TopsyTurvy
02-25-2011, 02:06 AM
They haven't needed to - yet.

cubswin25
02-25-2011, 02:08 AM
The Heat losses to elite teams are all close, I wont consider the Bulls a elite team though because they cant beat us in a 7 game series. lets not forget that those 2 games we lost came down to the stretch and a lucky 3 point shot in both games

LOL Bulls aren't a elite team, but the Heat are? You know what makes you a elite team, beating the top teams. The Heat have yet to beat the Bulls or Celtics this year, how are they elite? The Bulls have wins over the Heat, Celtics, Lakers, Mavs and Spurs this year. With one of the better records in the NBA, if that's not elite I dunno what is and if that's not elite then the Heat sure as hell aren't. That would just be calling them elite due to having two star players and not results. So take your loss like a man stop making excuses too. If the Heat hit late game shots to win, then you would be counting those wins as big wins for the Heat.


If the Thunders and Magic aren't consider elite neither are the Bulls

The Magic haven't been the same team since late December. It's obvious that big trade they made did more harm then good. Just look at their record since mid to late December and tell me who they beat and lost to during that time. They could still turn it around but as of right now they are looking like a team going down hill. The Thunder might be up there with a elite team now after the trade they made today. But they weren't a elite team when the Heat beat them. They had no size or rebounding or defense inside, which is why the Heat won that game(Thunder got killed on the rebounding) They weren't gonna beat any of the top West or East teams without that. Obviously adding Perkins could change that though.

Chronz
02-25-2011, 02:08 AM
Well doesn't per possession efficiency measure their efficiency when they get the ball, and usage measure how often they get the ball?
PPP measures the success rate with the possessions you use, Usage measures just how many possessions youve used. The 2 must be accounted for at all times, its generally easier to be more efficient in a lesser role.


On that note, per posession kiki Should still not have a better Ortg nor could you convince me that when he touches the Ball he's more efficient on offense than Jordan.
For their careers Kiki shot 52% compared to 49% for MJ. Thats basically what ORTG is saying except it pinpoints it down to every stat that can account for a possession and adds the value of 3's, FT's and Off.Reb.


But that could be me not understanding how the 2 stats interact with each other.

Off Rating is the ultimate tool for displaying just how great MJ was. Look up the history of players who sport MJ's usage and their coinciding Off.RTG. Hes in a league of his own, only a select few can match his combination of the 2.

For their careers Kiki sports an OFF.RTG of 119 to MJ's 118 but only accounts for 23% of his teams offense vs 33% for MJ.


Judging by this last game (though 1 game isn't a good way to measure an MVP but this last game was a microcasm for LBJs play in the clutch this year) during "crunch time" in crucial moments he tries to do too much and forces up bad shots, and I just can't see him as MVP.

Depends on how you define crunch/crucial moments.


Just me though. Also curious to see if you think LMA is in the top 10 for MVP consideration with his 26 and 10 since mid-Dec (when roy went out) and the Blazers better play since that period

Never thought about the list outside the top 5-6 but yea he should be up there.

Doogolas
02-25-2011, 02:09 AM
I think it's kind of unfair for Heat fans to have to deal with this thread in the NBA forum to be honest. I mean, why is this thread for Heat bashing allowed and one saying the Bulls do well against good teams not?

If nobody wants to hear Bulls fans slobber all over their team, why should Heat fans have to hear everybody talk **** about theirs?

DaBear
02-25-2011, 02:10 AM
Imagine if the Bulls had someone like Joe Johnson...scary.

Doogolas
02-25-2011, 02:11 AM
PPP measures the success rate with the possessions you use, Usage measures just how many possessions youve used. The 2 must be accounted for at all times, its generally easier to be more efficient in a lesser role.


For their careers Kiki shot 52% compared to 49% for MJ. Thats basically what ORTG is saying except it pinpoints it down to every stat that can account for a possession and adds the value of 3's, FT's and Off.Reb.


Off Rating is the ultimate tool for displaying just how great MJ was. Look up the history of players who sport MJ's usage and their coinciding Off.RTG. Hes in a league of his own, only a select few can match his combination of the 2.

For their careers Kiki sports an OFF.RTG of 119 to MJ's 118 but only accounts for 23% of his teams offense vs 33% for MJ.


Depends on how you define crunch/crucial moments.


Never thought about the list outside the top 5-6 but yea he should be up there.

Who is Kiki?

valade16
02-25-2011, 02:14 AM
PPP measures the success rate with the possessions you use, Usage measures just how many possessions youve used. The 2 must be accounted for at all times, its generally easier to be more efficient in a lesser role.

Off Rating is the ultimate tool for displaying just how great MJ was. Look up the history of players who sport MJ's usage and their coinciding Off.RTG. Hes in a league of his own, only a select few can match his combination of the 2.

Depends on how you define crunch/crucial moments.


Never thought about the list outside the top 5-6 but yea he should be up there.

Ok, I think I get it now. Kiki's stat is like how some big men can boast 65+ fg% but only take 4 shots a game and all shots are putbacks.

And I guess I should clarify and say not all crunch/crucial moments and specifically narrow it down to last shot attempts when the game is within one score.

Caps1989
02-25-2011, 02:18 AM
well they cant be elite because their 3rd scoring option, mr soft, just went 1-18

valade16
02-25-2011, 02:19 AM
I think it's kind of unfair for Heat fans to have to deal with this thread in the NBA forum to be honest. I mean, why is this thread for Heat bashing allowed and one saying the Bulls do well against good teams not?

If nobody wants to hear Bulls fans slobber all over their team, why should Heat fans have to hear everybody talk **** about theirs?

This thread is not intended to "bash" the heat, read my first post, i specifically said if that was what you intended to do to not waste your time.

It's not bashing to discuss a teams problems, and I think its obvious the heat have a problem, and I genuinly wanted to see what people thought the reason was.

Sometimes the truth is hard to hear, as a Blazer fan I know that well.

raiderNlakerfan
02-25-2011, 02:20 AM
They beat my lakers. Were elite...

valade16
02-25-2011, 02:20 AM
Who is Kiki?

Is this a serious query?

Did I spell his name wrong?

cubswin25
02-25-2011, 02:33 AM
They beat my lakers. Were elite...

Yes which is why they are 1-7 against elite teams(top three in West and East). You should know that your Lakers don't always show up in regular season games. Which is why you have a loss to the Cavs this year. Obviously beating the Lakers in the playoffs is a little tougher.

Bulls_fan90
02-25-2011, 03:31 AM
Chris Bosh aka Mr 1 of 18. He's just not the right fit for the team.

ElMarroAfamado
02-25-2011, 03:42 AM
Check My Sig.

iggypop123
02-25-2011, 04:06 AM
all they shoot is jumpers. they play nice defense but unless they get running and easy layups everythign is an isolation jumper. the only 1 win they had was the lakers game. and in that game lebron shot out of his mind so in some ways they played the same way they did as in the other games but in that game their jumpers simply fell.

shep33
02-25-2011, 04:37 AM
I think this is a bit overblow, haha i'm a Laker fan, and people forget that the Lakers were terrible against winning teams last season yet ended up doing just fine in the playoffs.

Only thing I worry about with Miami is if LBJ and Wade get burnt out in the playoffs, I mean there will be a lot of games where they're gonna play 40+ mins, and if Bosh can't score consistently then the onus is on them.

I think they'll be fine though

John Walls Era
02-25-2011, 04:44 AM
I wouldn't be too worried come playoff time. No back to backs, no trap games, short rotations.

The Jokemaker
02-25-2011, 07:46 AM
Gotta get Lebron more help down there. He can't do it alone and two allstars aren't enough.

Who knows why they can't win these games, maybe just get outplayed late in the games or some other excuse. When it hits playoff time, then you'll know just how good this team is.

DerrickRoseMVP
02-25-2011, 08:16 AM
Because they have no depth. The have James and Wade, that's it, Bosh is useless, their bench is the worst in the NBA, today against the Bulls, the bench scoring was only 2 and it was the 3rd quarter. They will be a solid regular season team, winning 50+ games, but come finals, i don't know whether they have can go all the way.

90sbest
02-25-2011, 08:38 AM
[QUOTE=DerrickRoseMVP;16887029]Because they have no depth. The have James and Wade, that's it, Bosh is useless, their bench is the worst in the NBA, today against the Bulls, the bench scoring was only 2 and it was the 3rd quarter. They will be a solid regular season team, winning 50+ games, but come finals, i don't know whether they have can go all the way.[/QUO

Plus back-ups are very important in the playoffs! Ask Bos, LA, and San Antone if you think I'm lying.

SteBO
02-25-2011, 09:21 AM
Because they have no depth. The have James and Wade, that's it, Bosh is useless, their bench is the worst in the NBA, today against the Bulls, the bench scoring was only 2 and it was the 3rd quarter. They will be a solid regular season team, winning 50+ games, but come finals, i don't know whether they have can go all the way.

Your overstating it. Depth doesn't mean as much come playoff time. Rotations are shortened in the playoffs. Besides, when Miller and Haslem get back, you'll see a difference. Even so, it still needs improvement.

trini_knickfan
02-25-2011, 09:31 AM
if LBJ and Wade are not on their game, their bench definitely won't close out games. Bosh don't count, he had a great game last night lol

quade36
02-25-2011, 10:09 AM
Your overstating it. Depth doesn't mean as much come playoff time. Rotations are shortened in the playoffs. Besides, when Miller and Haslem get back, you'll see a difference. Even so, it still needs improvement.

Depth means a lot come playoff time. Specifically if a stud gets into foul trouble. You are right rotations are shortened but its the guys who normally would get in for 2-3 minutes a game that would be not playing at all. Whereas guys off the bench are still extremely important.

I'll look at your Miami Heat in 06. James Posey and Gary Payton both had significant minutes off the bench. Then you had Alonzo Mourning contribute. You also lucked out that Shaq didn't get into foul trouble. He was awesome during the playoffs.

An even better example are the Lakers of last year. Lamar Odom, Shannon Brown and Jordan Farmer all had significant impacts during their playoff run. All non-starters.

I think you are over-analyzing the depth factor. I don't think anyone is saying you need an extra 5-6 players. But you definitely need 2-3. You need at least 8 consistent rotation players on your team. Thats where the Heat seem (at least until this point) to lack in.

My view point is if any one of the big three have an off night, they are definitely beatable. Like last night. But if all three are on, they are tough to beat.

Philly 4 Life
02-25-2011, 10:14 AM
In my opinion i believe dat the elite teams know how to play better defense and when wade or lebron goes cold it turns into a better version of last yrs cleveland and miami team because of bosh, but where everyone else jus stands around

marlinsfan24
02-25-2011, 10:17 AM
I wouldn't be too worried come playoff time. No back to backs, no trap games, short rotations.


I think this is a bit overblow, haha i'm a Laker fan, and people forget that the Lakers were terrible against winning teams last season yet ended up doing just fine in the playoffs.

Only thing I worry about with Miami is if LBJ and Wade get burnt out in the playoffs, I mean there will be a lot of games where they're gonna play 40+ mins, and if Bosh can't score consistently then the onus is on them.

I think they'll be fine though

This. Playing a team every 2 months is much different then playing them consecutively.

I have a question, if losing to the worst team in basketball is meaningless in the regular season, then why are people putting so much weight into a game vs the "elite" in the regular season?

Heat are 1-7 vs "elite" teams
Lakers are 2-6

And the Heat were without Haslem and Miller last night off the bench.

Wade
Lebron
Bosh
Haslem
Miller
Jones (been doing well for most of the season)
Dampier
Big Z
House

That's 9 men in the rotation come playoff time. Now if they can add someone through waivers to that, that would be great. But depth maybe overstated right now.

SteBO
02-25-2011, 10:27 AM
Depth means a lot come playoff time. Specifically if a stud gets into foul trouble. You are right rotations are shortened but its the guys who normally would get in for 2-3 minutes a game that would be not playing at all. Whereas guys off the bench are still extremely important.

I'll look at your Miami Heat in 06. James Posey and Gary Payton both had significant minutes off the bench. Then you had Alonzo Mourning contribute. You also lucked out that Shaq didn't get into foul trouble. He was awesome during the playoffs.

An even better example are the Lakers of last year. Lamar Odom, Shannon Brown and Jordan Farmer all had significant impacts during their playoff run. All non-starters.

I think you are over-analyzing the depth factor. I don't think anyone is saying you need an extra 5-6 players. But you definitely need 2-3. You need at least 8 consistent rotation players on your team. Thats where the Heat seem (at least until this point) to lack in.

My view point is if any one of the big three have an off night, they are definitely beatable. Like last night. But if all three are on, they are tough to beat.

You hust reiterated my point. Like you said, 2,3, or 4 extra guys are important. Those guys are Miller, Haslem, Jones, House, even throw Z or Joel in there depending on matchups I guess. That's a pretty solid 9 man rotation if you ask me. They've just been so inconsistent, it's depressing.

drew_ellis_23
02-25-2011, 10:40 AM
I Saw the Heat are now like 1-7 against the top teams in the league. This is not a heat hater thread, if that is your purpose go somewhere else.

That being said, why can't they beat the other good teams? I personally thought they would be rolling over the league...

Thoughts or explanations?

Cause Labiatch James sucks.

Heater4life
02-25-2011, 11:01 AM
Several reasons:

A) We need consistent bench production. Miller needs to be back on his game come playoff time, Haslem was an integral piece off the bench and is being severely missed, and if we can add another big like Murphy or Priz it would help.

B) Less iso, more movement. Its funny how everyone knows how our speed kills in the open court. Yet why cant it kill for us in the half court. Fact is, when the Heat move around on offense and make mulitple passes this team plays great ball. Our coach has to be more assertive with getting movement in.

C) Offensive boards. There killing us down-low on the offensive boards. If were going to go deep in the playoffs we need to secure the ball. Second chance points are a killer to any stingy defense.

Double_R
02-25-2011, 11:04 AM
The problem with the Heat is that they can beat weaker teams on just athleticism and talent alone, but when it comes to playing teams that are good defensively, they don't get the easy buckets that they can get against inferior talent.

el_primo_nano
02-25-2011, 11:08 AM
Watching last night's game, i can see that they run the LJ-DW offense. Give the ball to lebron, if he's not free pass it to Wade. How can you expect consistency from your teammates when those two are the only ones recieving the touches? That is not team basketball. That offense is dull, and will not change because when coach Spoelstra tried to instill his offense the two primadonna's did not allow him to.

SteBO
02-25-2011, 11:10 AM
The problem with the Heat is that they can beat weaker teams on just athleticism and talent alone, but when it comes to playing teams that are good defensively, they don't get the easy buckets that they can get against inferior talent.

It's why the Heat need their shooters to make open shots, and Bosh needs to play tougher and develop more moves inside, and stop taking jumpers when they aren't falling.

Bosh: 1-18 FG
Bench: 2 pts.

All this with Wade and LeBron doing what they do best.

MIA is not going to beat quality opponents, especially on the road, with this kind of production outside of Wade and LeBron.

SteBO
02-25-2011, 11:12 AM
Watching last night's game, i can see that they run the LJ-DW offense. Give the ball to lebron, if he's not free pass it to Wade. How can you expect consistency from your teammates when those two are the only ones recieving the touches? That is not team basketball. That offense is dull, and will not change because when coach Spoelstra tried to instill his offense the two primadonna's did not allow him to.

That was earlier in the year. I think what happened last night was two things.

1) Bosh sucked major monkey ****

2) The bench was awul, so LeBron and Wade it was necessary for them to just take over the game win it themselves, and they almost pulled it off.

ghettosean
02-25-2011, 11:14 AM
Isn't it obvious It's the Dan Gilbert voodo curse he put on Lebron!!!

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

effen5
02-25-2011, 11:22 AM
If I were the Heat, I would actually think about the trading Bosh for some solid role players.

NYKSpiritBomb
02-25-2011, 11:29 AM
i ain't sayin nothin till the seasons over...playoffs are a different level. The heat are comin and will destroy every team in 5 games or less

SteBO
02-25-2011, 11:32 AM
If I were the Heat, I would actually think about the trading Bosh for some solid role players.

Honest question. Who do you think we would get by trading Bosh? Be specific. Which team? What players? Talk about a silly panic move.

marlinsfan24
02-25-2011, 11:39 AM
Honest question. Who do you think we would get by trading Bosh? Be specific. Which team? What players? Talk about a silly panic move.

This trade here
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4eqha3q

:cool:

CowboysKB24
02-25-2011, 11:40 AM
They don't have an identity in late game situations. Last night, for example, LBJ hit back board on a fade away three. Not a good shot. Heat don't dominate the fast break against good defensive teams, which is their strong point offensively. Sometimes in the fourth quarter it is LBJ and Wade taking turns on isolation plays. They need to figure out a way to play offense against the elite defenses and finish games. Their supporting cast is good, but they just don't have the chemistry to get the most out of their players. Right now Bulls and Celtics are just more balanced and better all around teams.

Albrecht Duerer
02-25-2011, 11:40 AM
It's why the Heat need their shooters to make open shots, and Bosh needs to play tougher and develop more moves inside, and stop taking jumpers when they aren't falling.

Bosh: 1-18 FG
Bench: 2 pts.

All this with Wade and LeBron doing what they do best.

MIA is not going to beat quality opponents, especially on the road, with this kind of production outside of Wade and LeBron.

Yeah but last night just highlighted Bosh's softness. People keep talking about how he was 0/4 at close range but what does that say about his shot distribution? He shot 4 shots from close in and settled for shots 14 times, which, again, highlights the perception that he's soft.

THE_G.O.A.T.
02-25-2011, 11:42 AM
I'd say the biggest problem is that the heat don't play defense. That and Bosh is one of the most overated players of all time. I'm beginning to think that the Heat really only have a big 2, not a big three or four like the Bulls or Celtics have.

Dwayne Wade got lit up in the second half last night!

Albrecht Duerer
02-25-2011, 11:43 AM
Honest question. Who do you think we would get by trading Bosh? Be specific. Which team? What players? Talk about a silly panic move.

OK, lets start with Houston. They just traded for a big man and traded away a PG. If you would have traded Bosh, you could have possibly landed Scola and Aaron Brooks.

metsfanssince05
02-25-2011, 11:43 AM
Because like I said in the Off-season. They were stupid to take Bosh.... (not that hes a bad player hes great..) I'd rather have Lebron and Wade with a good PG and center, good depth. Instead they have 3 really good players, and thats it. They will beat any one but Boston, Bulls, spurs, those teams.

I'm not hating on them but its the truth.

SteBO
02-25-2011, 11:44 AM
Yeah but last night just highlighted Bosh's softness. People keep talking about how he was 0/4 at close range but what does that say about his shot distribution? He shot 4 shots from close in and settled for shots 14 times, which, again, highlights the perception that he's soft.

Can't argue with that. Bosh was pathetic.

marlinsfan24
02-25-2011, 11:44 AM
I'd say the biggest problem is that the heat don't play defense. That and Bosh is one of the most overated players of all time. I'm beginning to think that the Heat really only have a big 2, not a big three or four like the Bulls or Celtics have.

Dwayne Wade got lit up in the second half last night!

Back that up please.

THE_G.O.A.T.
02-25-2011, 11:45 AM
The Heat will NOT be able to beat the Celtics or Bulls in a 7 game series due to their lack of bench and big men that can both play defense and stay out of foul trouble.

jasonresno
02-25-2011, 11:46 AM
Because they aren't very good.

SteBO
02-25-2011, 11:47 AM
I'd say the biggest problem is that the heat don't play defense. That and Bosh is one of the most overated players of all time. I'm beginning to think that the Heat really only have a big 2, not a big three or four like the Bulls or Celtics have.

Dwayne Wade got lit up in the second half last night!

The Heat are one of the best defensive teams in the league, so already your post is flawed. I'd agree with you somewhat had you said, "the Heat aren't disciplined defensively in late game situations highlighted by Wade's costly help on Rose leaving Deng wide open". That I'd have a hard time disagreeing with.

SteBO
02-25-2011, 11:48 AM
Because they aren't very good.

:facepalm:

CowboysKB24
02-25-2011, 11:49 AM
It's why the Heat need their shooters to make open shots, and Bosh needs to play tougher and develop more moves inside, and stop taking jumpers when they aren't falling.

Bosh: 1-18 FG
Bench: 2 pts.

All this with Wade and LeBron doing what they do best.

MIA is not going to beat quality opponents, especially on the road, with this kind of production outside of Wade and LeBron.

The bench consisted of 3 players. All played less than 20 minutes and took only 8 shots combined. It is not their fault, they didn't even get a chance. Bosh just had a bad game.

LBJ and Wade need to learn how to play better together and incorporate the rest of the team, and utilize their strengths. It is going to take time. I don't think this is their year, but I can't imagine this team not winning a championship together. Talent is not the issue. They could use another big man, but they don't need shooters or Baron Davis.

MikeD FSQNY
02-25-2011, 11:52 AM
when you say murphy, you mean troy murphy, why do you have him backing up Lebron, haha, Troy is a PF/C, he would prob start at C for the Heat, hes a terrific rebounder/defender, not much of shot blocker, but plays hard and also shoot, including hit a 3, he is in no way shape or form a SF

CowboysKB24
02-25-2011, 11:53 AM
The Heat are one of the best defensive teams in the league, so already your post is flawed. I'd agree with you somewhat had you said, "the Heat aren't disciplined defensively in late game situations highlighted by Wade's costly help on Rose leaving Deng wide open". That I'd have a hard time disagreeing with.

Their defense is good. Their offense becomes more isolated when they play against good teams. Their transition offense is not there against the better defensive teams. Wade and LBJ have too many isolation plays. They need better chemistry on the offensive end. It is hard because both Wade and LBJ like to have the ball a lot. I would blame those two more than anyone else. Granted they are both playing lights out individually this year, but they need to have a comfortable offense for everyone on the team, not just themselves. It is up to them to do that and the coach obviously.

marlinsfan24
02-25-2011, 11:55 AM
when you say murphy, you mean troy murphy, why do you have him backing up Lebron, haha, Troy is a PF/C, he would prob start at C for the Heat, hes a terrific rebounder/defender, not much of shot blocker, but plays hard and also shoot, including hit a 3, he is in no way shape or form a SF

I put him at SF just because the Heat will have a lot of minutes to spare at that position. Not saying he is a SF, but he'd likely play SF when the Heat went big. I wasn't implying he's a SF, just wanted to show him as a second string player.

SteBO
02-25-2011, 11:56 AM
Their defense is good. Their offense becomes more isolated when they play against good teams. Their transition offense is not there against the better defensive teams. Wade and LBJ have too many isolation plays. They need better chemistry on the offensive end. It is hard because both Wade and LBJ like to have the ball a lot. I would blame those two more than anyone else. Granted they are both playing lights out individually this year, but they need to have a comfortable offense for everyone on the team, not just themselves. It is up to them to do that and the coach obviously.

Agreed. I just got the sense that they felt they needed to take it over themselves because no one else was doing much. That contributed to the bench not getting many opportunities. We were great offensively in the first half, but when CHI amped up the D, you're right, MIA became a one-on-one offensive team. That needs to change, no doubt about that.

THE_G.O.A.T.
02-25-2011, 11:56 AM
The Heat don't have a half court offense, so when good defensive teams play them tough more times than not they will lose over the course of a 48 minutes game. As exampled by their 1-7 record against the top teams in the game.

CowboysKB24
02-25-2011, 11:57 AM
That's if this current team is even around after March 1.

Heat will have major interest in Ford, Murphy, and Curry (hopefully not lol). If they can add Murphy and Ford and drop Howard and Magloire, and then get back Haslem and Miller, those supporting players won't look as bad.

Ford/Chalmers
Wade/Miller
James/Murphy
Bosh/Haslem
Dampier/Big Z/Anthony

They have enough talent. They just need to utilize their players better.

THE_G.O.A.T.
02-25-2011, 11:58 AM
And its hard for Wade and James to be effective late in games when they have to exert soo much energy to keep their team in the game for the first 45 minutes of it.

They just run out of gas.

CowboysKB24
02-25-2011, 11:58 AM
To answer the Q its called bad luck.



The reason you just gave is why they are a better playoff team than a regular season team. In the playoffs depth becomes less of a priority and the top rotations matter most.

Their top rotation played over 40 minutes each last night except Erick Dampier. Bench took 8 shots and was only 3 players and all played less than 20 minutes.

marlinsfan24
02-25-2011, 12:00 PM
The Heat aren't losing because of their bench. Look at last night... the bench consisted of three players who played less than 20 minutes. Shot only 8 shots. They don't need talent, they need better chemistry.

Joel Anthony doesn't shoot the ball anyways, James Jones only shoots 3 and looked way off on the ones he did shoot. Eddie House was not effective playing at all last night. So, just looking at the box score, you can blame chemistry. But the truth of the matter is, that no one showed up ready to play for the Heat except Lebron and Wade. And if they hadn't taken over the game the way they did, we would have lost badly IMO.

SteBO
02-25-2011, 12:00 PM
The Heat will NOT be able to beat the Celtics or Bulls in a 7 game series due to their lack of bench and big men that can both play defense and stay out of foul trouble.

I could also say the Celtics and Bulls will NOT beat the Heat in a 7 game series, because they don't have LeBron and Wade, nor can they stop MIA in transition. :shrug: Bottom line is, you won't know till the playoffs. You're making a huge leap here.

godolphins
02-25-2011, 12:01 PM
Here it is: In 2005/ 2006 Miami was 4-16 against the top 3 teams in the east and top 4 teams in the west
That's 1-3 vs Nets
0-2 Vs both Mavs and Nuggets
1-3 Vs Detroit
0-2 vs both Phoenix and Spurs and 2-2 vs the Cavs

SteBO
02-25-2011, 12:02 PM
Their top rotation played over 40 minutes each last night except Erick Dampier. Bench took 8 shots and was only 3 players and all played less than 20 minutes.

Don't forget our two best bench players are out at the moment.

mikealike305
02-25-2011, 12:03 PM
cuz haslem is still out. we get out rebounded and give up way to many off. reboubnds and 2nd chance pts. we need to get murphy if he gets bought out, and haslem needs to be back healthy (which should be soon) and we'll be ok

CowboysKB24
02-25-2011, 12:04 PM
Agreed. I just got the sense that they felt they needed to take it over themselves because no one else was doing much. That contributed to the bench not getting many opportunities. We were great offensively in the first half, but when CHI amped up the D, you're right, MIA became a one-on-one offensive team. That needs to change, no doubt about that.

I think they need to trust their bench more or change their system or something. When they start falling behind in a game, they should still use their same game plan. Phil will take Kobe out sometimes because he is shooting too much and ruining the flow of the offensive. The Heat do the same thing sometimes. They need to trust the other players. I think they are good enough talent wise. Mike Miller, Z, Eddie House can play, they just need some guidance. James Jones can shoot among the best, he just needs some one to set him up. Their supporting cast is much better than I thought it was going to be. That is something they knew they were going to have to sacrifice to get all 3 guys on the same team. The Heat are only going to get better, they'll figure out sooner or later.

CowboysKB24
02-25-2011, 12:05 PM
Don't forget our two best bench players are out at the moment.

That is true. That definitely did hurt them.

THE_G.O.A.T.
02-25-2011, 12:06 PM
I could also say the Celtics and Bulls will NOT beat the Heat in a 7 game series, because they don't have LeBron and Wade, nor can they stop MIA in transition. :shrug: Bottom line is, you won't know till the playoffs. You're making a huge leap here.

Hopefully Lebron won't quit in the playoffs this year like he did last year.

I bet people in Cleveland remember that.

THE_G.O.A.T.
02-25-2011, 12:07 PM
I think Haslem and Miller both suck.

Didn't the Heat try to unload Miller at the trade deadline?

Hoopsadvocate
02-25-2011, 12:07 PM
Here it is: In 2005/ 2006 Miami was 4-16 against the top 3 teams in the east and top 4 teams in the west
That's 1-3 vs Nets
0-2 Vs both Mavs and Nuggets
1-3 Vs Detroit
0-2 vs both Phoenix and Spurs and 2-2 vs the Cavs

This, this a billion times this.

no worries we've done it before.

THE_G.O.A.T.
02-25-2011, 12:08 PM
Chris Bosh=bad paper

mikealike305
02-25-2011, 12:10 PM
Chris Bosh=bad paper

you=bad poster

CowboysKB24
02-25-2011, 12:10 PM
Joel Anthony doesn't shoot the ball anyways, James Jones only shoots 3 and looked way off on the ones he did shoot. Eddie House was not effective playing at all last night. So, just looking at the box score, you can blame chemistry. But the truth of the matter is, that no one showed up ready to play for the Heat except Lebron and Wade. And if they hadn't taken over the game the way they did, we would have lost badly IMO.

The guy I quoted, said the bench had 2 points. I was just pointing out the reason why. They didn't get much of a chance and the team was short, so blaming the bench is not right.

I think the problem is LBJ and Wade taking over so much. Both guys average 25 - 26 points a game. Bosh is average 19? 70 points a game comes from 3 players. It is hard for the other players to get comfortable in the system when it is primarily a 3 man offense.

SteBO
02-25-2011, 12:10 PM
Hopefully Lebron won't quit in the playoffs this year like he did last year.

I bet people in Cleveland remember that.

He better not quit again, but I'm not worried about that. He'll come throguh, and D-Wade will too. You've seem what he does when he's in the playoffs. Bosh is a huge question mark though.

marlinsfan24
02-25-2011, 12:11 PM
I think Haslem and Miller both suck.

Didn't the Heat try to unload Miller at the trade deadline?


Chris Bosh=bad paper

You clearly hate the Heat. And they weren't unloading him, but looking for a center.

HakeemTheDream
02-25-2011, 12:12 PM
The Heat are not clutch enough. Everyone knows Lebron and Wade are going to attack the rim in crunch time, but if the shooters around them aren't clutch (Mike Miller shoots 15% in the clutch according to statistics) then teams will crowd the paint and force Lebron to shoot a jump shot. A lot of people seem to think Lebron and Wade are clutch, but that's only true when they attack the rim, when it comes to shooting jump shots they are actually not that clutch.

SteBO
02-25-2011, 12:12 PM
I think Haslem and Miller both suck.

Didn't the Heat try to unload Miller at the trade deadline?

If Haslem and Miller suck, then Taj Gibson sucks worse, as well as brewer and Korver

mikealike305
02-25-2011, 12:14 PM
as long as haslem is back and 100% before the playoffs. we will do just fine.

CowboysKB24
02-25-2011, 12:14 PM
He better not quit again, but I'm not worried about that. He'll come throguh, and D-Wade will too. You've seem what he does when he's in the playoffs. Bosh is a huge question mark though.

I am a Bosh fan. I think he is underrated. The Heat should give him more opportunities. He was a 24-10 player on the Raptors and brought them to the playoffs. Amar'e (prior to the Melo trade) reminded me of Bosh with the Raptors. Heat should work the offense through him and see what happens.

Wade can handle the pressure and is great in the clutch. Bosh won't be shooting clutch shots (most likely). LBJ is the question mark in my opinion. Let's be honest, his track record is not the greatest. His weakest point offensively is his perimeter shooting. Refs rarely call late game foul when players drive to the hoop unless it is a real hard foul. It is tough for LBJ.

twoearl
02-25-2011, 12:15 PM
Bosh needs to play more with his back to the basket to open up some lanes for Wade and Bosh in crunch time aka 4th Quarter.

If MIAMI thinks they are going to win a ring with BOSH taking 10 15 foot jumpers a game they are crazy...

twoearl
02-25-2011, 12:17 PM
I am a Bosh fan. I think he is underrated. The Heat should give him more opportunities. He was a 24-10 player on the Raptors and brought them to the playoffs. Amar'e (prior to the Melo trade) reminded me of Bosh with the Raptors. Heat should work the offense through him and see what happens.

This! Wade or Bron needs to sacrafice thier scoring. Bosh should be putting up 20+ points a game with either wade or bron dropping to 17 or 18 a game...

marlinsfan24
02-25-2011, 12:17 PM
This! Wade or Bron needs to sacrafice thier scoring. Bosh should be putting up 20+ points a game with either wade or bron dropping to 17 or 18 a game...

Bron needs to focus more on playmaking then scoring IMO.

SteBO
02-25-2011, 12:19 PM
This! Wade or Bron needs to sacrafice thier scoring. Bosh should be putting up 20+ points a game with either wade or bron dropping to 17 or 18 a game...

You mean inside out. This is true. We've played well when we've done that in a game. There were times when only Bosh was on the floor, and we'd go on runs.

Missing56&33
02-25-2011, 12:20 PM
The Heat is DWade's team and Lebron is taking away from that. The Heat has no identity. They have two superstars but no one has claimed being the leader of the team yet.

THE_G.O.A.T.
02-25-2011, 12:22 PM
I don't hate the Heat. I hate Heat fans.

THE_G.O.A.T.
02-25-2011, 12:25 PM
If Haslem and Miller suck, then Taj Gibson sucks worse, as well as brewer and Korver

Ouch......TAKE THAT RONNIE BREWER, TAJ GIBSON, and KYLE KORVER.

at least the Bulls bench doesn't lose games for them though.

At least the Bulls big guys don't go 1-18 and look foolish doing it.

and at least taj, ronnie, and kyle don't spend the whole game in the bench on street clothes.

turnaround3
02-25-2011, 12:25 PM
Simple.

Too much practice.

Not enough chill.

SteBO
02-25-2011, 12:27 PM
Ouch......TAKE THAT RONNIE BREWER, TAJ GIBSON, and KYLE KORVER.

at least the Bulls bench doesn't lose games for them though.

At least the Bulls big guys don't go 1-18 and look foolish doing it.

Calm down buddy. One game.

Rdy2PlayBall
02-25-2011, 12:28 PM
Wasn't made by a Heat fan.That means absolutely nothing...

Chicagofaithful
02-25-2011, 12:30 PM
To answer the Q its called bad luck.



The reason you just gave is why they are a better playoff team than a regular season team. In the playoffs depth becomes less of a priority and the top rotations matter most.

thats not true at all. How do you think the Lakers won last year? Kobe was terrible in game 7

Chicagofaithful
02-25-2011, 12:31 PM
I don't hate the Heat. I hate Heat fans.

+1 but i also hate the heat

SteBO
02-25-2011, 12:32 PM
thats not true at all. How do you think the Lakers won last year? Kobe was terrible in game 7

Fisher and Artest (two starters) bailed him out, as well as rebounding.

marlinsfan24
02-25-2011, 12:32 PM
+1 but i also hate the heat

I love your girlfriend ;). But I hate the Bulls!

killbumdeluxe13
02-25-2011, 12:33 PM
cuz their bench is worse than a d league team. ok that might have been an exaggeration but really their bench sucks. The heat's bench got outscored 22-2 last night. Wade, Lebron, and Bosh can't score all the points especially when one has an off night.

Sly Guy
02-25-2011, 12:35 PM
I am a Bosh fan. I think he is underrated. The Heat should give him more opportunities. He was a 24-10 player on the Raptors and brought them to the playoffs. Amar'e (prior to the Melo trade) reminded me of Bosh with the Raptors. Heat should work the offense through him and see what happens.

Wade can handle the pressure and is great in the clutch. Bosh won't be shooting clutch shots (most likely). LBJ is the question mark in my opinion. Let's be honest, his track record is not the greatest. His weakest point offensively is his perimeter shooting. Refs rarely call late game foul when players drive to the hoop unless it is a real hard foul. It is tough for LBJ.


pretty much this. The last several heat games I've seen, I've notice they're quite effective playing through Bosh. He may not have all the flash of the other two, but he can be damned effective.

And for those saying that he needs to play with his back to the bucket more, that's simply not his game. Even in the post, he'll turn around, face up, and take a quick step to the bucket instead.....Part of the reason why Bargs and Bosh never truly worked out.....Bosh needs a big bruiser next to him cuz he's a finesse big man.

But even if Miami does start to play through Bosh more, is that really going to work in the long-run? I still see the potential undoing for the Heat team I did at the beginning of the season, that there might be too much ego and not enough ball. Are either James or Wade willing to play the 3rd wheel? So far, Bosh has been the good dude and done his best to accept the 3rd option role, but if it's to the benefit of the team to have him play the 2nd or 1st option, can the other two handle it?

marlinsfan24
02-25-2011, 12:37 PM
pretty much this. The last several heat games I've seen, I've notice they're quite effective playing through Bosh. He may not have all the flash of the other two, but he can be damned effective.

And for those saying that he needs to play with his back to the bucket more, that's simply not his game. Even in the post, he'll turn around, face up, and take a quick step to the bucket instead.....Part of the reason why Bargs and Bosh never truly worked out.....Bosh needs a big bruiser next to him cuz he's a finesse big man.

But even if Miami does start to play through Bosh more, is that really going to work in the long-run? I still see the potential undoing for the Heat team I did at the beginning of the season, that there might be too much ego and not enough ball. Are either James or Wade willing to play the 3rd wheel? So far, Bosh has been the good dude and done his best to accept the 3rd option role, but if it's to the benefit of the team to have him play the 2nd or 1st option, can the other two handle it?

I don't think it would be a major issue if they were to switch off game-by-game depending on the hot hand. Also, this is somewhere the coaching needs to step up in.

THE_G.O.A.T.
02-25-2011, 12:43 PM
Calm down buddy. One game.

actually they're 1-7 in big games.........so thats 8 I believe, not 1. Just sayin.

footballer2369
02-25-2011, 12:46 PM
actually they're 1-7 in big games.........so thats 8 I believe, not 1. Just sayin.

How do you define big games?

They beat the Lakers, Magic 2x, Hawks, etc. You can put an arbitrary line in the sand anywhere and make any team, probably excepting the Spurs, bad.

footballer2369
02-25-2011, 12:46 PM
BTW close this thread already lazy bum mods.

zo#33
02-25-2011, 12:59 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8811

CowboysKB24
02-25-2011, 01:05 PM
How do you define big games?

They beat the Lakers, Magic 2x, Hawks, etc. You can put an arbitrary line in the sand anywhere and make any team, probably excepting the Spurs, bad.

There is no denying the Heat are having trouble against the best teams in the league and the better defensive teams. Lakers are having the same problem except they have the last two championships and proven what they can do in the post season.

Sly Guy
02-25-2011, 01:11 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8811

whatever makes you feel better. Haha, I still see the teams with better win% against tope 10 or top 5 coming out of the series more often than not.

ghettosean
02-25-2011, 01:13 PM
It's because the heat are morons... Pat Riley signs LBJ, Wade and Bosh (most of there money on 3 guys). No problems there but the next amount of money is spent on Mike Miller... Like wtf is that all about!!! I hate the heat and I'll be honest about it because of the way everything went down but just to say what there downfall is I'd have to say Mike Miller. The big 3 can deal with most of the scoring and if it's 3 pointers LBJ and Wade can deal with that and even big Z can step in... They should have got a legit C or PG (more a centre) or waited for one. Anyway there were in a rush to spend money after they got there 3 muskateers. So too bad so sad hopefully they trade Miller and switch things up because this isn't going to work in the playoffs... Boston and the Bulls are showing them who's boss... They lost yesterday to the bulls and the bulls played 2 nights in a row. Shows a lot as to what will go down come playoff time!

effen5
02-25-2011, 01:22 PM
cuz their bench is worse than a d league team. ok that might have been an exaggeration but really their bench sucks. The heat's bench got outscored 22-2 last night. Wade, Lebron, and Bosh can't score all the points especially when one has an off night.

You know what cracks me up though, Heat fans claimed they had one of the deepest benches in the league before the season started, they wouldn't listen to reason, they would keep saying all the bench has to do is hit open shots that Wade and Lebron would give them....well I wonder how they feel about that now.

SteBO
02-25-2011, 01:28 PM
It's because the heat are morons... Pat Riley signs LBJ, Wade and Bosh (most of there money on 3 guys). No problems there but the next amount of money is spent on Mike Miller... Like wtf is that all about!!! I hate the heat and I'll be honest about it because of the way everything went down but just to say what there downfall is I'd have to say Mike Miller. The big 3 can deal with most of the scoring and if it's 3 pointers LBJ and Wade can deal with that and even big Z can step in... They should have got a legit C or PG (more a centre) or waited for one. Anyway there were in a rush to spend money after they got there 3 muskateers. So too bad so sad hopefully they trade Miller and switch things up because this isn't going to work in the playoffs... Boston and the Bulls are showing them who's boss... They lost yesterday to the bulls and the bulls played 2 nights in a row. Shows a lot as to what will go down come playoff time!

I don't where you get this **** from, but this is false.

Hoopsadvocate
02-25-2011, 01:28 PM
You know what cracks me up though, Heat fans claimed they had one of the deepest benches in the league before the season started, they wouldn't listen to reason, they would keep saying all the bench has to do is hit open shots that Wade and Lebron would give them....well I wonder how they feel about that now.

The same seeing as how our 6th and 7th man havent played much at all.

Take away taj and brewer from the bulls and ur bench goes to **** as well.

effen5
02-25-2011, 01:34 PM
The same seeing as how our 6th and 7th man havent played much at all.

Take away taj and brewer from the bulls and ur bench goes to **** as well.

Umm thats the difference between the Bulls and Heat...

Our two starters go down....

Boozer goes down, Taj takes the starting role and the bench backs up Taj

Noah goes down, Kurt Thomas takes the starting role and the bench backs up KT (mostly Asik)

So your statement is beyond flawed. Our entire bench, even in some cases James Johnson and even Brian Scalabrine, the very last two guys to come off the bench, who has gotten very limited playing time has contributed each time they touch the floor.

Bornknick73
02-25-2011, 01:36 PM
Look at the rebounding numbers from last nights game and that says it all. Their height isnt very good and their depth isnt all that great either.

But on a lighter note you will probably beat up on the Knicks sunday, which should make Heat fans happy. But in the end the Spurs, OKC, BOS, CHI will destroy them in a 7 game series.

Miami should have fixed this blunder and traded Bosh for a real C and PG. But thats what happens when you let The Homeboys make your personnel decisions. And with the new CBA coming up I dont see it getting any easier for them.

The only way to ensure a championship is to trade Bosh. He has just been a luxury at the expense of the teams depth and core needs.

Keep Batman and Robin and get rid of Wonder Woman. Fill out the team with that money.

Too bad they couldnt get Perk. A Perk Haslem James frontcourt is way more imposing than anything they can do now.

The Heat are a regular season team with no height or depth and will be exposed come playoff time.

SteBO
02-25-2011, 01:38 PM
Umm thats the difference between the Bulls and Heat...

Our two starters go down....

Boozer goes down, Taj takes the starting role and the bench backs up Taj

Noah goes down, Kurt Thomas takes the starting role and the bench backs up KT (mostly Asik)

So your statement is beyond flawed. Our entire bench, even in some cases James Johnson and even Brian Scalabrine, the very last two guys to come off the bench, who has gotten very limited playing time has contributed each time they touch the floor.

Cool story bro. How is his statement flawed? Miller and Haslem are our best bench players.

mikealike305
02-25-2011, 01:40 PM
other fans: heat suck!! haha

Heat fans: no we dont u do!!!

how much longer will this last?

tangent12
02-25-2011, 01:40 PM
Because they're simply not that good. Poor guys will be lucky if they even make it out of a first round series. The Bulls and Celtics are just too much for them, I even think the Knicks would beat the Heat in 5.

The Heat are too flawed.

turnaround3
02-25-2011, 01:41 PM
Cool story bro. How is his statement flawed? Miller and Haslem are our best bench players.

Obviously not the flawed statement he was referring to.

SteBO
02-25-2011, 01:42 PM
Look at the rebounding numbers from last nights game and that says it all. Their height isnt very good and their depth isnt all that great either.

But on a lighter note you will probably beat up on the Knicks sunday, which should make Heat fans happy. But in the end the Spurs, OKC, BOS, CHI will destroy them in a 7 game series.

Miami should have fixed this blunder and traded Bosh for a real C and PG. But thats what happens when you let The Homeboys make your personnel decisions. And with the new CBA coming up I dont see it getting any easier for them.

The only way to ensure a championship is to trade Bosh. He has just been a luxury at the expense of the teams depth and core needs.

Keep Batman and Robin and get rid of Wonder Woman. Fill out the team with that money.

Too bad they couldnt get Perk. A Perk Haslem James frontcourt is way more imposing than anything they can do now.

The Heat are a regular season team with no height or depth and will be exposed come playoff time.

Here we go again with the stupid premature leaps. :facepalm: CHI, BOS, SA, OKC are not destroying MIA in any series anytime soon. Our bench hasn't been whole all year, and we're not even at our peak. Call it an excuse all you want, but it's just the reality. You're blind if you think otherwise.

effen5
02-25-2011, 01:43 PM
Cool story bro. How is his statement flawed? Miller and Haslem are our best bench players.

Its flawed because he said if Taj and Brewer went down we would struggle, well guess what, our two important starters went down, and Taj and Kurt Thomas came in and did a wonderful job while our other bench players back them up. Thats why its flawed.

footballer2369
02-25-2011, 01:44 PM
Obviously not the flawed statement he was referring to.

Probably because there was no flawed statement. It's all opinion, anyway.

Considering the Heat will have Miller, Haslem and Zydrunas in their 8 man rotation come playoff time, I don't think any intelligent fan will point to their bench as a weakness.

ghettosean
02-25-2011, 01:44 PM
I don't where you get this **** from, but this is false.
Whats false them lossing to Chicago after playing there 2nd straight game... check
http://www.nba.com/games/20110224/MIACHI/gameinfo.html?ls=gt2hp0021000859#nbaGIboxscore
:laugh:
Sorry to break it to you but maybe it is false.
:laugh:
Denial gotta love it!
:laugh:

SteBO
02-25-2011, 01:45 PM
Its flawed because he said if Taj and Brewer went down we would struggle, well guess what, our two important starters went down, and Taj and Kurt Thomas came in and did a wonderful job while our other bench players back them up. Thats why its flawed.

In the scenario they would start, yes. But that's not what he was referring to. He was reffering to production off the bench. If Taj and Brewer were hurt, you're bench would suffer just as much as Miamis'. Hate to break it to you, but it's the truth.

Rivera
02-25-2011, 01:46 PM
miamis late game execution down the strech is horrible...they still seem to not know for who to take the last shot and it seems the coach instead of deamanding or saying here wade you take the last shot you lebron you take the last shot...coach spo seems to let them try and figure that on there own which is not what great coaches do

turnaround3
02-25-2011, 01:46 PM
Probably because there was no flawed statement. It's all opinion, anyway.

Nah.



Take away taj and brewer from the bulls and ur bench goes to **** as well.

That's pretty flawed.

SteBO
02-25-2011, 01:47 PM
Whats false them lossing to Chicago after playing there 2nd straight game... check
http://www.nba.com/games/20110224/MIACHI/gameinfo.html?ls=gt2hp0021000859#nbaGIboxscore
:laugh:
Sorry to break it to you but maybe it is false.
:laugh:
Denial gotta love it!
:laugh:

I was referring to your last sentence, stating that your victory shows what will happen in the playoffs. That is false, genius. Regular season has no bearing on the playoffs. Watch the NBA as a whole and then you'll understand. Hell, look it up. You'll find it.

Stupidity gotta love it!
:laugh:

mttwlsn16
02-25-2011, 01:48 PM
cuz its 3 on 5

this, but its more like 2.5 on 5

Rivera
02-25-2011, 01:49 PM
Because they're simply not that good. Poor guys will be lucky if they even make it out of a first round series. The Bulls and Celtics are just too much for them, I even think the Knicks would beat the Heat in 5.

The Heat are too flawed.

yea the heat are not good :facepalm:

they only have the 2nd best record in the east and 3rd best record in the league

also the heat are 33-8 there last 41 games....


as fans i know we like to say teams suck and myself i loved and laughed my *** off when lebrick missed another clutch J

but come on man...this team yes is flawed but there still talented and even with there flaws they could still win it all

and if bosh goes 3 for 18 instead of 1 for 18 miami wins that game not chicago

Rivera
02-25-2011, 01:53 PM
In the scenario they would start, yes. But that's not what he was referring to. He was reffering to production off the bench. If Taj and Brewer were hurt, you're bench would suffer just as much as Miamis'. Hate to break it to you, but it's the truth.

not really because boozer and noah have been hurt and taj and asik have been in the astarting line up this year and it hasnt hurt chicagos bench one bit...fact is injuries happen and when they do players need to step up

you can use injuries as an excuse for not winning a game...or not winning it all but fact is injuries happen to everyone and other players need to step up




lol im defending the heat better than heat fans and i hate the heat :facepalm:

but the amount of hate and ignorance in this thread and on this board in general is outrageous

i mean seriously do we need a new thread every time the miami heat lose??

footballer2369
02-25-2011, 01:54 PM
SteBo, don't waste your time. This is a baiting thread through and through. Just let them project and vent.

effen5
02-25-2011, 01:55 PM
In the scenario they would start, yes. But that's not what he was referring to. He was reffering to production off the bench. If Taj and Brewer were hurt, you're bench would suffer just as much as Miamis'. Hate to break it to you, but it's the truth.

and I can counter by saying losing two starters in Noah and Boozer is way more signifcant then losing 2 bench players but our bench players decided to step up.

Rivera
02-25-2011, 01:56 PM
There's a difference between excuse and reality. It's called a dictionary. Get real bro! Your ignorance is glaring at me, and it's pathetic. MM is a big part of what MIA wants to do offensively, but I'll let the playoffs do the talking. Then, maybe you'll understand. ;)

but mike miller was being replaced by james jones and james jones was doing everything mike miller was supposed to do which is why miami dangled mike miller in the trade market

injuries happen bro....thats a weak excuse for you guys loosing last nights game....try blaming bosh instead

if bosh goes 3 for 18 instead of 1 for 18 miami wins that game

if bosh goes 5 or 18 miami wins some what comfortably

k.smith904
02-25-2011, 01:56 PM
There's a difference between excuse and reality. It's called a dictionary. Get real bro! Your ignorance is glaring at me, and it's pathetic. MM is a big part of what MIA wants to do offensively, but I'll let the playoffs do the talking. Then, maybe you'll understand. ;)

So predictable.

If the Heat win: They're amazing.

If they lose: It doesn't matter because it's not the playoffs.


It's ok, you'll be equally disappointed in a few months.

SteBO
02-25-2011, 01:58 PM
SteBo, don't waste your time. This is a baiting thread through and through. Just let them project and vent.

True. The stupidity and ignorance here is baffling.

mikealike305
02-25-2011, 02:03 PM
So predictable.

If the Heat win: They're amazing.

If they lose: It doesn't matter because it's not the playoffs.


It's ok, you'll be equally disappointed in a few months.

If the HEAT win: thats what they should do

if they lose: HAHAHAHA!!! man!!!! the HEAT suck!!


It's ok, you'll be disapponited in a few months.

ghettosean
02-25-2011, 02:04 PM
There's a difference between excuse and reality. It's called a dictionary. Get real bro! Your ignorance is glaring at me, and it's pathetic. MM is a big part of what MIA wants to do offensively, but I'll let the playoffs do the talking. Then, maybe you'll understand. ;)
You're right and Noah isn't a big part of the Bulls same with the other players I mentioned on Boston. It must be really hot in Miami must be baking your brain for real. You talk about premature attitudes yet you say that the heat will destroy teams in the playoffs :eyebrow:

What are you smoking on down there... No chance bro but I'll be here when it all goes down the tubes. MM has been doing great so far anyway for the time he's played and been healthy so your probably right :)

*Cough*

Not that your making excuses ;)