PDA

View Full Version : ESPN: Kobe Bryant Has Withstood the NBA's Test of Time



ko8e24
02-20-2011, 02:52 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/allstar2011/columns/story?columnist=adande_ja&page=Kobe-110219



LOS ANGELES -- This was supposed to be a tribute to a unique accomplishment by Kobe Bryant ... except Kobe wasn't having any part of it.

With the All-Star Game back in Los Angeles, Bryant is the only player since the NBA-ABA merger to make two All-Star Game appearances in his home arena in a single city. When I brought that to his attention, he didn't seem impressed.

"Is that supposed to mean anything?" he said.

I added this: Of the 24 players who participated in the 2004 All-Star Game at Staples Center, only Bryant and six others have stayed with their same respective teams in the seven years that have elapsed. And of those six -- Paul Pierce in Boston, Tim Duncan in San Antonio, Dirk Nowitzki in Dallas, Andrei Kirilenko in Utah, Michael Redd in Milwaukee and Yao Ming in Houston -- only Pierce, Duncan and Nowitzki will be back at the All-Star Game.

Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen are still All-Stars, only now they're in Boston. Jermaine O'Neal and Shaquille O'Neal are in Boston, too, but no longer earn trips to the league's showcase game. Tracy McGrady has gone from one of the top scorers in the league to a point guard for lottery-bound Detroit. Some scattered across the globe in order to keep playing, Steve Francis to China and Allen Iverson to Turkey.

Seven years later, and only seven have stayed in the same place.

"Yeah," Bryant said, nodding.

Now it resonated with him. The rarity of staying power. He didn't care for the quirky two-time home-court thing.

"It would mean something if I played in, like, Minnesota," he said. "The All-Star Game coming back to L.A. means that I'm in a hot city.

"In terms of the years and the players that were playing then, and what I'm doing now, I take a lot of pride in that," Bryant said. "Because I've been able to stay at the top for a loooong, long, long time.

"I've seen the debates of Kobe-McGrady, Kobe-Iverson, you know what I mean? I've seen those generations come and go. And here I am now, [battling] LeBron [James], [Dwyane] Wade and people who were like, 10, when I was doing it. So I take a lot of pride in it."

Kobe wants to be a topic of discussion, not an answer to a trivia question. He's learned he can't control what people think about him, but he can force his way into their minds. Look at how he's barged into the room with the likes of Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Wilt Chamberlain even though Bryant has only one Most Valuable Player award to put on the table. Sustained excellence makes the conversation mandatory, regardless of the actual accolades.

The first step toward entering the historical context is winning the contemporary battles, over and over again. Jordan once told me that Bryant is "a lot like myself as far as separating himself -- the way I wanted to separate myself from Clyde Drexler and everybody else."

Who knows whether Bryant ever read those words when I put them in the pages of the L.A. Times eight years ago. But when I brought them up to Bryant this month, he jumped on that concept of separation.

"That's part of the game," Kobe said. "And the way to do that is to win. I do it my way. They have their own way of doing things that may be more popular. But I go about it my own way, as Mike did it, too. And let the results speak for themselves.

"There's only two people that did it this way. We shoot first, he and I both. It's a street fight. We'll take on all five people … we're going to scrap. And a lot of people don't understand that. That's why it's not the most popular way to go about doing it, but this is our way.

"That's how I've always been. That's why I don't think everybody can understand that. But this is who I am."

This is him: unapologetic, and about as honest and unfiltered as he gets. It might come off as arrogant when the words are typed out, but there is no humble way to assess your place among the elite, which is what Bryant was asked to do here. He was describing his greatness, not proclaiming it.

Don't get bent because he compared himself to Jordan. Again, he did so because I brought it up … although this is the farthest I've ever seen him take the baton and run down the track with it. Normally, he scoffs and shuts down at the first mention of Jordan, even if Kobe brought it on himself by his mannerisms when he first came into the league and then his high level of play. In this case, I think hearing the commonalities Jordan saw between them caused Kobe to elaborate.

Jordan created the template, gave Kobe reason to believe this way could work. Before Jordan started his three-peat roll in 1991, it had been 20 years since a player won a scoring title and a championship in the same season. Shaq was the last to do it, in 2000, and Jordan remains the only guard to pull off that double feat. It's an unusual blueprint for a champion: build around a shooting guard who shoots a lot. Jordan took the most field goal attempts in the NBA nine times, including his six championship seasons. Bryant took the second-most shots in the league while winning championships the past two seasons and had the most attempts the three seasons prior to that. Bryant could match Jordan in volume but not accuracy; Kobe's best field goal percentage, 46.9 in 2001-02, wouldn't crack Jordan's top 10 shooting seasons.

See, that's why Bryant is wise to usually avoid the Jordan discussions, because he usually comes up short. But having watched both of them at their peaks, I'll say Kobe's competitive fire burns with just as much intensity as Jordan's -- exceeds it, even. Twice we've seen Jordan walk away from a winning team, even though it turned out he still had more basketball left in him. Bryant has gone nonstop, each championship only making him hungrier.

There's no other way to explain why Kobe is still among the elite, 15 years into his career, seven years after he played his previous All-Star "home" game. He can stake a claim as the best in the dozen years since Jordan played his last game in a Bulls uniform.

LeBron has emerged lately as a better player, but Kobe is the one racking up the rings. There's a subtle difference: LeBron has an aversion to losing, while Kobe has a need to win. I've seen plenty of games in which LeBron could have let his team pack it in for the night yet he refused and prevailed. He'd rather not lose. Bryant would give up a vital organ to win.

As incredible as LeBron has been, we still want to see more -- more aggressiveness toward the hoop, more low-post moves, more championships.

Say what you will about Bryant, over the course of his career, but he has more rings than nights on which you felt he gave less than his all. He doesn't leave clips in the chamber.

This was going to be a story about how Kobe has changed since 2004, but he blew that up, too.

"I'm the same way," he said.

He's still shoot-first. Even though Bryant has his deepest team since he was handed the reins in 2004, even though Phil Jackson is restricting Bryant's playing time to keep him fresher for the playoffs, Kobe's rate of 20 shots per 36 minutes is as high as usual.

His style is the same, only now his opinion carries more weight since he's an elder member of the team.

"I say these things to them, they're open to listening, as opposed to saying them to guys who are 10 years older," Kobe said.

Every year, every point, every championship has added weight to his words. Bryant's quotes hijacked this column, just by providing some rare insight into what he values in the game and how he sees himself. No, he wasn't sentimental about playing another All-Star Game at Staples Center, and no, he didn't say this, but something tells me the best part of having the game here means that when the best players in the NBA look up, they'll see his five championship banners, including the two he won without Shaq.

Albrecht Duerer
02-20-2011, 02:53 PM
team forum

ko8e24
02-20-2011, 02:54 PM
team forum

Title of thread:

"NBA's" Test of Time


NBA FORUM

Minimal
02-20-2011, 02:57 PM
Kobe is the man, he learned how to be humble, much respect for him.

Chacarron
02-20-2011, 02:57 PM
Too long a read, but I'm guessing it's about Kobe.

Albrecht Duerer
02-20-2011, 02:58 PM
Too long a read, but I'm guessing it's about Kobe.

He has three testicles.

ko8e24
02-20-2011, 03:01 PM
What would guys rather have another "Melo to NJ", "Melo to NYK", "Blake Griffin Hype", "Hate LeBron", "Hate Bosh", "Hate Miami", "KG is a douche" type of threads again???

Isn't that was PSD has been all about the last 6-7 months?

JordansBulls
02-20-2011, 03:05 PM
Good stuff:clap::clap:

ManRam
02-20-2011, 03:10 PM
I mentioned this in that Dwight/Kobe thread. I didn't really read the article, but I'll chime in.

He's changed his game up. T-Mac, AI, Vince etc. never stopped being reckless, at least not until it was too late. Kobe has completely changed things up, and it will pay dividends big time down the road. He is smarter when it comes to his style of play than the guys that are struggling and/or out of the league now. He doesn't recklessly attack the hoop all the time, rather, he's mastered the mid range shot and every way to take that shot (fadeaway, step backs, pump fakes etc) and he's also learned to back people down to score in the paint. He doesn't play the same way as he did when he was repping the fro, but he's still just as effective...and it's better for his legacy.

Bornknick73
02-20-2011, 03:10 PM
What would guys rather have another "Melo to NJ", "Melo to NYK", "Blake Griffin Hype", "Hate LeBron", "Hate Bosh", "Hate Miami", "KG is a douche" type of threads again???

Isn't that was PSD has been all about the last 6-7 months?

I guess another "Kobe is the best" thread wouldnt hurt.

Avenged
02-20-2011, 03:15 PM
Found this incredible..


And here I am now, [battling] LeBron [James], [Dwyane] Wade and people who were like, 10, when I was doing it. So I take a lot of pride in it."

Goes to show how long Kobe has been at the top. Players have come and gone but he still remains.

barreleffact
02-20-2011, 03:34 PM
What would guys rather have another "Melo to NJ", "Melo to NYK", "Blake Griffin Hype", "Hate LeBron", "Hate Bosh", "Hate Miami", "KG is a douche" type of threads again???

Isn't that was PSD has been all about the last 6-7 months?

ooo oooo...thats what i want. and add some steve nash rumors in and rose too. gotta have rose....wait a minute...i see what u did there. funny guy

but in all seriousness if you rid all the big stories and ppl then you realy have nothing else for the forum. just food for thought.

Albrecht Duerer
02-20-2011, 03:45 PM
It's kind of interesting that Avenged lets this slide when he's one of the most overzealous mods (based on what Ive seen). I guess if it's pro-Lakers, its cool to post in the main forum, huh?

No bias here.

YankeesR#2
02-20-2011, 03:46 PM
No matter how many rings he has won or all star games he has been in, kobe is still a failure as a human being.

He was lucky he raped the right woman but that doesn't mean he's not a rapist. He's such an arrogant piece of work there wasn't too much sympathy for him around the laker's offices. His first reaction to being questioned was too throw Shack under the bus saying he's gotten away with it by paying his victims which is what kobe ended up doing.

I don't even think he sees the irony of the networks showing him doting over his two young daughters.

Still he's a great player and you have to wonder if the reason he was caught was because it was an abberration. For instance players who regularly cheat on their wives are more likely to use an escort service because they can't claim later they were raped.

knightstemplar
02-20-2011, 03:50 PM
No matter how many rings he has won or all star games he has been in, kobe is still a failure as a human being.

He was lucky he raped the right woman but that doesn't mean he's not a rapist. He's such an arrogant piece of work there wasn't too much sympathy for him around the laker's offices. His first reaction to being questioned was too throw Shack under the bus saying he's gotten away with it by paying his victims which is what kobe ended up doing.

I don't even think he sees the irony of the networks showing him doting over his two young daughters.

Still he's a great player and you have to wonder if the reason he was caught was because it was an abberration. For instance players who regularly cheat on their wives are more likely to use an escort service because they can't claim later they were raped.

omg
kobes a rapist and he sucks good job

John Walls Era
02-20-2011, 03:54 PM
I don't think Kobe has changed his personality. THis guy still loves to take all the shots, and still has a lot of drive, which is really why hes succeeding. All the guys who have fell off have lost either their drive or talent. Kobe is out to prove something (like all the Greats do).

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-20-2011, 03:59 PM
No matter how many rings he has won or all star games he has been in, kobe is still a failure as a human being.

He was lucky he raped the right woman but that doesn't mean he's not a rapist. He's such an arrogant piece of work there wasn't too much sympathy for him around the laker's offices. His first reaction to being questioned was too throw Shack under the bus saying he's gotten away with it by paying his victims which is what kobe ended up doing.

I don't even think he sees the irony of the networks showing him doting over his two young daughters.

Still he's a great player and you have to wonder if the reason he was caught was because it was an abberration. For instance players who regularly cheat on their wives are more likely to use an escort service because they can't claim later they were raped.

haters gonna hate

Avenged
02-20-2011, 04:43 PM
It's kind of interesting that Avenged lets this slide when he's one of the most overzealous mods (based on what Ive seen). I guess if it's pro-Lakers, its cool to post in the main forum, huh?

No bias here.

What's wrong with this thread? It's already in the Lakers forum if that's you're big deal. :shrug: You reported me, if another Mod finds it fit to move or shut it down then he will.

northsider
02-20-2011, 04:45 PM
I never understood why people hated Kobe so much I am a huge fan.

Bruno
02-20-2011, 05:10 PM
Found this incredible..

Goes to show how long Kobe has been at the top. Players have come and gone but he still remains.

Longevity. So important regarding a players legacy.

Bruno
02-20-2011, 05:14 PM
No matter how many rings he has won or all star games he has been in, kobe is still a failure as a human being.
He was lucky he raped the right woman but that doesn't mean he's not a rapist.

Haha, you mean the woman who had three different kind of ***** in her panties while getting examined at the hospital? The woman who was bragging about her accomplishment before realizing she could make a quick buck? She was a master extortionist, it's pretty obvious.

And for the record, that's why young men in their 20's who make millions traveling the country shouldn't be married. They should allow themselves to mess around before settling down.

^Classic Kobe hater.

Bruno
02-20-2011, 05:16 PM
It's kind of interesting that Avenged lets this slide when he's one of the most overzealous mods (based on what Ive seen). I guess if it's pro-Lakers, its cool to post in the main forum, huh?

No bias here.

Right, never mind that JB, one of the longest tenured/most respected MODs in the NBA forum posted in this thread and found no reason for it to be moved.

Lets just try to expose Avenged because it's a thread about Kobe, and he's a Laker fan. :rolleyes:

Confusious
02-20-2011, 06:09 PM
I have no problem with this.

It's just the comparisons to Michael that piss me off. He's no where near MJ's league. And yet, everybody compares them, and it makes me resent Bryant.

Bruno
02-20-2011, 06:17 PM
I have no problem with this.

It's just the comparisons to Michael that piss me off. He's no where near MJ's league. And yet, everybody compares them, and it makes me resent Bryant.

In all fairness, the primary comparison in this article (separation) was spurred by a comment/comparison that Jordan made.


Jordan once told me that Bryant is "a lot like myself as far as separating himself -- the way I wanted to separate myself from Clyde Drexler and everybody else."

The comparisons do get old.

Bullsfan22
02-20-2011, 06:21 PM
You can hate him but you got to respect him. Jay Z of basketball in my eyes. I really couldn't care less what he has done off the court.

Ron!n
02-20-2011, 06:36 PM
People need to get over the whole "Kobe is horrible" thing.

The guy is one of the top players in the NBA all-time. Give credit where its due.

marlinsfan24
02-20-2011, 06:40 PM
Who the **** cares what Kobe does off of the court? I sure don't. He's been amazing on the court and that's all I care about. I'm not dating any of the players nor do I know them personally so their personal lives mean nothing to me.

With that said, Kobe has done wonders in the NBA. IDK if you can call him the Greatest of all time, but he has to be somewhere in that discussion. If only the NBA started embracing him at an earlier age, people would realize how truly remarkable his career has been.

AlvaROD
02-20-2011, 06:44 PM
great read....

I loved this part
Say what you will about Bryant, over the course of his career, but he has more rings than nights on which you felt he gave less than his all.

GspLAL
02-20-2011, 06:59 PM
People still believe Kobe raped that girl? He just had sex with her and she looked for an opportunity to squeeze some money out of him

stawka
02-20-2011, 07:00 PM
Wow that's pretty awesome, and I hate Kobe. He just doesn't want to go down man

210Don
02-20-2011, 07:04 PM
Jordan>Kobe>Rose>Monta Ellis.

killbumdeluxe13
02-20-2011, 07:07 PM
Interesting article. I used to hate Kobe with a passion, specifically for his beef with Shaq and breaking up that unbeatable LA squad (even though I detest the Lakers). I dunno what it was but something bugged me about that. Years later though, I've learned to respect him for that same reason. Seeing the greatest players trying to team up with each other to form super squads is a little disheartening. Its nice to see that Kobe, like MJ and all the greats before him, still has that killer instinct to be the best and wants to beat everybody else, not join them. He's def. not MJ but is the damn near closest thing any NBA fan can have to another MJ.

stawka
02-20-2011, 07:09 PM
Jordan>Kobe>Rose>Monta Ellis.

Rose>>>>>>>>>Jordan>Kobe>Rose's sperm>Rondo

shep33
02-20-2011, 07:16 PM
Wow that's pretty awesome, and I hate Kobe. He just doesn't want to go down man

i know hey, he's like King Leonidas in 300 haha, the guy just won't quit, he won't back down, and that's why I respect him beyond measure.

valade16
02-20-2011, 07:31 PM
omg
kobes a rapist and he sucks good job

Actually, if Kobe's the rapist then SHE probably sucked :D

xbrackattackx
02-20-2011, 08:19 PM
Avenged found himself a hater! <3333

The Raven
02-20-2011, 08:24 PM
Great Article. Kobe is one of a kind.

The fact that he's been doing this for so long at such an elite level shows the passion he has for the game.

kArSoN RyDaH
02-20-2011, 09:38 PM
I love it.

DoubleDragon
02-20-2011, 10:20 PM
It's kind of interesting that Avenged lets this slide when he's one of the most overzealous mods (based on what Ive seen). I guess if it's pro-Lakers, its cool to post in the main forum, huh?

No bias here.

This is a story based on reflections of a generational sort.
It's interesting and lends itself to the state of past, present and future NBA super talents and is absolutely worthy of the thread. If people can look past the tired hate aspect and take it as what it is, perspective on a warrior, true professional, perseverance and cross-generational future hall of famer, you'd be okay with it. Good posting ko824...ignore the meatheads and haters.

It's not the topic that's inappropriate for the main forum, it's the closed mindedness and immaturity that usually stinks it up in here.
:o

now, back to the flogging

MickeyMgl
02-20-2011, 10:55 PM
He was lucky he raped the right woman but that doesn't mean he's not a rapist.

I don't understand what you're saying. I get from this that you believe he raped somebody, but then you close by saying "that doesn't mean he's not a rapist"? What?

The truth is, he cheated with the WRONG woman - a mentally unstable woman who had a history of acting out for attention, and who admittedly lied about her story.



He's such an arrogant piece of work... I don't even think he sees the irony of the networks showing him doting over his two young daughters.

I don't think you see the irony of calling somebody arrogant in a post where you hold judgment over a matter you clearly no very little about.

GREATNESS ONE
02-20-2011, 11:01 PM
Great Read, We're watching history and a Legend of the game. Goin to be a sad day when this man walks away.

Anyhooo I love you Kobe !!!!:love:

MickeyMgl
02-20-2011, 11:02 PM
I have no problem with this.

It's just the comparisons to Michael that piss me off. He's no where near MJ's league. And yet, everybody compares them, and it makes me resent Bryant.

Probably because they ARE in the same league/ballpark. It is a close comparison.

I have no problem with somebody believing Jordan was a better player. It's the finger-in-ears I-don't-want-to-discuss-it whines and myopic and ridiculous "nowhere near MJ's league" cries that I find frustrating.

Create
02-20-2011, 11:08 PM
Much respect to Kobe.

Storch
02-20-2011, 11:11 PM
Kobe could not have done all this without his team. He's stated that before and I respect him more for that than his solo accomplishments.

YankeesR#2
02-21-2011, 07:35 PM
Haha, you mean the woman who had three different kind of ***** in her panties while getting examined at the hospital? The woman who was bragging about her accomplishment before realizing she could make a quick buck? She was a master extortionist, it's pretty obvious.
......
^Classic Kobe hater.

Bruno, I have a suggestion for you, find a woman with a shady past and rape her. When the police come to arrest you say "I know at least 10 guys who have tagged that ***."

While you rot in prison you can think about the difference between you and Kobe, one of you rapists had the money to pay the victim off.

Here's a quote from Kobe himself, "Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did."

Here's another quote from your hero "Bryant claims he stopped after asking if he could ejaculate on her face".

He probably should have kept his mouth shut

valade16
02-21-2011, 07:46 PM
Probably because they ARE in the same league/ballpark. It is a close comparison.

I have no problem with somebody believing Jordan was a better player. It's the finger-in-ears I-don't-want-to-discuss-it whines and myopic and ridiculous "nowhere near MJ's league" cries that I find frustrating.

Because it really isnt close, ill copy some stats from the mj kobe comparison thread (Credit to bos sports4life):

Mvps: jordan 5, kobe 1

Scoring titles: jordan 10, kobe 2

League leader per: jordan 7, kobe 0

League leader steals: jordan 3, kobe 0

Also career win shares jordan is 1, kobe is 25th.

They arent comparable, jordan is hands down no argument better than kobe.

YankeesR#2
02-21-2011, 07:50 PM
I don't understand what you're saying. I get from this that you believe he raped somebody, but then you close by saying "that doesn't mean he's not a rapist"? What?

The truth is, he cheated with the WRONG woman - a mentally unstable woman who had a history of acting out for attention, and who admittedly lied about her story.

I don't think you see the irony of calling somebody arrogant in a post where you hold judgment over a matter you clearly no very little about.

Micky I realize that English isn't your first language, "no" so I apologize for my use of a double negative.

What I meant was that even though Kobe was not convicted of rape, he is still a rapist. The only difference between Kobe and the men in prison serving time for rape is that Kobe had enough money to pay his victim off.

You are correct when you say that the woman lied in her statement to the District Attorney but she didn't lie about being raped. A fact admitted by Kobe himself "Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did."

Whether Kobe thought the sex was consensual or not is not material, the woman gets to decide whether she has been raped or not.

Supreme LA
02-21-2011, 07:58 PM
No matter how many rings he has won or all star games he has been in, kobe is still a failure as a human being.

He was lucky he raped the right woman but that doesn't mean he's not a rapist. He's such an arrogant piece of work there wasn't too much sympathy for him around the laker's offices. His first reaction to being questioned was too throw Shack under the bus saying he's gotten away with it by paying his victims which is what kobe ended up doing.

I don't even think he sees the irony of the networks showing him doting over his two young daughters.

Still he's a great player and you have to wonder if the reason he was caught was because it was an abberration. For instance players who regularly cheat on their wives are more likely to use an escort service because they can't claim later they were raped.

^ WoW! Unbelievable...

Bruno
02-21-2011, 07:59 PM
Bruno, I have a suggestion for you, find a woman with a shady past and rape her. When the police come to arrest you say "I know at least 10 guys who have tagged that ***."

While you rot in prison you can think about the difference between you and Kobe, one of you rapists had the money to pay the victim off.

Here's a quote from Kobe himself, "Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did."

Here's another quote from your hero "Bryant claims he stopped after asking if he could ejaculate on her face".

He probably should have kept his mouth shut

1. I don't have hero's in pop culture. If I had to pick two, it would be George Carlin and Frank Zappa, certinaly not an athleate.

2. Not a valid point. The dozens of men she slept with before Kobe don't matter. But the two who she had right before/after him do. You know, because their DNA were in her panties. It's called evidence yanks, in this country you're innocent until proven otherwise.

3. Why didn't she testify? Because she's a fraud, and the lawers would have exposed that with ease. She would have cracked under the pressure in the court-room, just as she cracked to the pressure of her whore-friends requesting that she cry rape for money.

4. Kobe said what he said because he had a family to protect (from the media) because he was in the first stages off attempting to rebuild his immage after that debacle.

5. How do you know I don't have the money to buy somebody off ;).

6. I do agree with your last comment. He should have never trusted the police who first investigated him. He should have maintined his Miranda Rights, stayed quiet, and let his lawers and the courts do the talking.

Mr_Ratings
02-21-2011, 08:42 PM
Bruno, I have a suggestion for you, find a woman with a shady past and rape her. When the police come to arrest you say "I know at least 10 guys who have tagged that ***."

While you rot in prison you can think about the difference between you and Kobe, one of you rapists had the money to pay the victim off.

Here's a quote from Kobe himself, "Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did."

Here's another quote from your hero "Bryant claims he stopped after asking if he could ejaculate on her face".

He probably should have kept his mouth shut

Honestly guys I think this dude is just hating cause he secretly feels that the Lakers are a better sports franchise than the yankees.

Now before you give your inevitable reply, let me state this so I can make your reply look stupid.

New York Yankees = 27 titles, 40 world series appearance, and 49 playoff appearances in 110 years ( .445 % )

The Lakers = 16 Titles, 31 finals appearances, and 56 playoff appearances in 62 years ( .903 % )

27 titles in 110 years ( .245% ) < 16 titles in 62 years ( .258 )

consistency wins Yankee boy.... Stop your hating and appreciate the Lakers until you catch us..... Or not :rolleyes:

rufo4100
02-21-2011, 08:46 PM
His longevity is impressive at age 32

Mr_Ratings
02-21-2011, 08:46 PM
And besides how many players ( including Yankee legends ) have had a criminal record or have been caught doing something illegal :)

Da Knicks
02-21-2011, 08:53 PM
do the lakers not have a forum?

JJ_JKidd
02-21-2011, 08:58 PM
Nice find. Kobe will never be MJ in as much as no one will ever be MJ, much less be like Kobe. He's an old man now, but he's still not yet ready to give up the throne to some fake king or some other else unless they truly deserve it.

MickeyMgl
02-22-2011, 03:29 AM
Because it really isnt close, ill copy some stats from the mj kobe comparison thread (Credit to bos sports4life):

Mvps: jordan 5, kobe 1

Scoring titles: jordan 10, kobe 2

League leader per: jordan 7, kobe 0

League leader steals: jordan 3, kobe 0

Also career win shares jordan is 1, kobe is 25th.

They arent comparable, jordan is hands down no argument better than kobe.

You're talking about awards. I'm talking about players and their skills. Just because their careers didn't follow the same path doesn't mean that there is a major difference. As players, they're similar. Trust me. Put young MJ on a contending team with Shaq, and he doesn't get MVPs, he doesn't get half those scoring titles, and he probably gets fed up with O'Neal even sooner than Bryant did.

Learn to compartmentalize. Jordan's career, thanks to a number of factors that include but are not limited to his being the best of his era, is among the most decorated in terms of hardware - as you clearly point out.

On the other hand, as players, they're similar. Jordan a slightly better defender, Bryant a better ballhandler and shooter, Jordan a better finisher around the basket, Bryant a more explosive scorer, etc.

On the other other hand, if Bryant somehow manages to lead his team to a couple more championships - including one without Jackson - then there probably won't be any need be polite about it. (I say this particularly because I don't think he will do it. But if he does... ) :)

MickeyMgl
02-22-2011, 03:42 AM
Micky I realize that English isn't your first language, "no" so I apologize for my use of a double negative.

What I meant was that even though Kobe was not convicted of rape, he is still a rapist. The only difference between Kobe and the men in prison serving time for rape is that Kobe had enough money to pay his victim off.

You are correct when you say that the woman lied in her statement to the District Attorney but she didn't lie about being raped. A fact admitted by Kobe himself "Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did."

Clearly ignoring the parts you don't like, and seizing on the parts you like. I've highlighted a relevant portion for you. He's not admitting to anything. This letter was so self-contradictory, it seems obvious that it was nothing more than a way of assuring that she wasn't going to be sued when she dropped her case.

So you know exactly which portions she was lying about based on which parts she admitted lying about? On what do you base your "she didn't lie about the rape"? Is it because she hadn't yet admitted lying about the rape? She clearly lied about more than was in her letter, as the mounting exculpatory evidence was showing. There's a reason the Colorado Bureau of Investigations (usually an ally of the prosecution) was preparing to testify on Bryant's behalf.



Whether Kobe thought the sex was consensual or not is not material, the woman gets to decide whether she has been raped or not.

Actually, no. Otherwise, there'd never be acquittals, would there? (It's OK. You didn't think it through. It happens.)

ClayMatthews
02-22-2011, 04:16 AM
Really neat..

hyb152
02-22-2011, 04:23 AM
Kobe has really matured. He used to be really arrogant and immature, but I don't blame him. Most superstars are. Lebron is now but he'll mature as he gets older. People used to not like kobe because of his cockiness, but he's gotten older and ppl have forgotten those days. I see the same in lebron's future. He'll mature as he gets older too... although it might take lebron longer if he wins a few rings in the next few years because if that happens, he may go down as the best player to ever play. I dont know about you guys, but if I was the greatest to ever play, I'd be cocky for a little bit longer than Kobe was lol

JJ_JKidd
02-22-2011, 04:33 AM
Kobe has really matured. He used to be really arrogant and immature, but I don't blame him. Most superstars are. Lebron is now but he'll mature as he gets older. People used to not like kobe because of his cockiness, but he's gotten older and ppl have forgotten those days. I see the same in lebron's future. He'll mature as he gets older too... although it might take lebron longer if he wins a few rings in the next few years because if that happens, he may go down as the best player to ever play. I dont know about you guys, but if I was the greatest to ever play, I'd be cocky for a little bit longer than Kobe was lol

Thatd be better :clap:

UnWantedTheory
02-22-2011, 04:45 AM
Found this incredible..



Goes to show how long Kobe has been at the top. Players have come and gone but he still remains.

Kobe can't count all that well. "Like 10 or something"....wtf? LoL. Da Kobes is alright I suppose. Terrible ego though.

UnWantedTheory
02-22-2011, 04:49 AM
Because it really isnt close, ill copy some stats from the mj kobe comparison thread (Credit to bos sports4life):

Mvps: jordan 5, kobe 1

Scoring titles: jordan 10, kobe 2

League leader per: jordan 7, kobe 0

League leader steals: jordan 3, kobe 0

Also career win shares jordan is 1, kobe is 25th.

They arent comparable, jordan is hands down no argument better than kobe.

^

Ty Fast
02-22-2011, 05:58 AM
People still believe Kobe raped that girl? He just had sex with her and she looked for an opportunity to squeeze some money out of him

hes a cheater

YankeesR#2
02-22-2011, 08:25 AM
1. I don't have hero's in pop culture. If I had to pick two, it would be George Carlin and Frank Zappa, certinaly not an athleate.

2. Not a valid point. The dozens of men she slept with before Kobe don't matter. But the two who she had right before/after him do. You know, because their DNA were in her panties. It's called evidence yanks, in this country you're innocent until proven otherwise.

3. Why didn't she testify? Because she's a fraud, and the lawers would have exposed that with ease. She would have cracked under the pressure in the court-room, just as she cracked to the pressure of her whore-friends requesting that she cry rape for money.

4. Kobe said what he said because he had a family to protect (from the media) because he was in the first stages off attempting to rebuild his immage after that debacle.

5. How do you know I don't have the money to buy somebody off ;).

6. I do agree with your last comment. He should have never trusted the police who first investigated him. He should have maintined his Miranda Rights, stayed quiet, and let his lawers and the courts do the talking.

1. Man, you're old. I don't think most posters here even know who those guys are.

2. When your mother said "always wear clean underwear" this is what she was talking about. The fact that she wears dirty inderwear may be disgusting but it's not evidence.

3. You say because she's a fraud and I say because Kobe paid her off. What we know is that Kobe paid her off. The answer may be because she's a fraud and Kobe paid her off but what we know for sure is that Kobe paid her off.

4. Kobe has two young daughters who are going to grow into two young woman. When they get there they are going to understand that statement.
That being said, Kobe doesn't appear to be that intelligent so it's possible he never thought of that.

5. I never thought of that

YankeesR#2
02-22-2011, 08:44 AM
Honestly guys I think this dude is just hating cause he secretly feels that the Lakers are a better sports franchise than the yankees.

Now before you give your inevitable reply, let me state this so I can make your reply look stupid.

New York Yankees = 27 titles, 40 world series appearance, and 49 playoff appearances in 110 years ( .445 % )

The Lakers = 16 Titles, 31 finals appearances, and 56 playoff appearances in 62 years ( .903 % )

27 titles in 110 years ( .245% ) < 16 titles in 62 years ( .258 )

consistency wins Yankee boy.... Stop your hating and appreciate the Lakers until you catch us..... Or not :rolleyes:

I don't mind being called stupid but that yankee fan comment really hurt. I do #1 standing up and #2 sitting down, the yankees are #2. I hate the yankees for the same reason I hate the lakers, too many of their fans are front runners who only root for them because they win.

Lebron James is from Akron Ohio but he's a yankee fan. That character flaw was exposed when he left Cleveland for Miami.

As far as your analysis I was going to say that it was flawed because it didn't take into consideration the number of teams in the league but then I remembered that when there less teams in the NBA, the lakers were being beaten like a cheap mule by my Celtics, so it may be true.

By the way Minneapolis owns a good portion of those championships you are claiming. I think when a team leaves a city it should keep its name and past in the city it accomplished it. Otherwise you end up with teams like the Utah Jazz or the Los Angeles "Land of 1000 lakes" Lakers (or the Los Angeles Trolley Dodgers for that matter).

That's what happens now.

YankeesR#2
02-22-2011, 09:02 AM
Clearly ignoring the parts you don't like, and seizing on the parts you like. I've highlighted a relevant portion for you. He's not admitting to anything. This letter was so self-contradictory, it seems obvious that it was nothing more than a way of assuring that she wasn't going to be sued when she dropped her case.So you know exactly which portions she was lying about based on which parts she admitted lying about? On what do you base your "she didn't lie about the rape"? Because she hadn't yet admitted lying about the rape? She clearly lied about more than was in her letter, as the mounting exculpatory evidence was showing. There's a reason the Colorado Bureau of Investigations (usually an ally of the prosecution) was preparing to testify on Bryant's behalf.

Actually, no. Otherwise, there'd never be acquittals, would there?

You are correct when you say "ignoring the parts you don't like, and seizing on the parts you like" but as far as the rape allegation Kobe himself admitted it "Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did."

What he didn't say was as important as what he did say. He did not say "She is lying", he says instead "I was mistaken."

As far as the Actually, no. Otherwise, there'd never be acquittals, would there? I believe you are mistaken. When a woman identifies her attacker he is convicted. That's why DNA evidence is freeing so many people from prison. When a woman identifies her attacker, even mistakenly, he is convicted.

YankeesR#2
02-22-2011, 09:11 AM
^ WoW! Unbelievable...

I don't know what to say. Maybe when you grow up (I mean literally and not emotionally) and you have a daughter of your own you will feel differently (at least I hope so).

Violence against woman cannot be tolerated.

Your best case scenario is that Kobe is a moron. When you are young and someone says something you don't like, you can fight him. As you get older and acquire assets you realize that hitting someone may land you in court. When you attain multi-millionaire status, you have to be very careful of what you do, unless you are a moron and in that case you'll be paying out a lot of your money.

Supreme LA
02-22-2011, 09:26 AM
I don't know what to say. Maybe when you grow up (I mean literally and not emotionally) and you have a daughter of your own you will feel differently (at least I hope so).

Violence against woman cannot be tolerated.

Your best case scenario is that Kobe is a moron. When you are young and someone says something you don't like, you can fight him. As you get older and acquire assets you realize that hitting someone may land you in court. When you attain multi-millionaire status, you have to be very careful of what you do, unless you are a moron and in that case you'll be paying out a lot of your money.

WTF?????? :confused::confused::confused:

Supreme LA
02-22-2011, 09:29 AM
I don't know what to say. Maybe when you grow up (I mean literally and not emotionally) and you have a daughter of your own you will feel differently (at least I hope so).

Violence against woman cannot be tolerated.

Your best case scenario is that Kobe is a moron. When you are young and someone says something you don't like, you can fight him. As you get older and acquire assets you realize that hitting someone may land you in court. When you attain multi-millionaire status, you have to be very careful of what you do, unless you are a moron and in that case you'll be paying out a lot of your money.

Dude, you're totally off base now...I thought we were talking about basketball???? :confused::confused::confused:

MickeyMgl
02-23-2011, 07:41 PM
You are correct when you say "ignoring the parts you don't like, and seizing on the parts you like" but as far as the rape allegation Kobe himself admitted it "Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did."

What he didn't say was as important as what he did say. He did not say "She is lying", he says instead "I was mistaken."

Considering she had his balls in a vice, this was a very tepid "admission". Two kinds of people plead out or negotiate a deal like this: Guilty people afraid of going to jail, and Innocent people afraid of going to jail. On the other side, accusers whose story begins to fall apart as trial approaches, and who want to simultaneously protect themselves from counter-charges and still make a buck.

Saying that "she does not view this incident the same way" speaks just as much to her documented mental instability as to anything else.




As far as the Actually, no. Otherwise, there'd never be acquittals, would there? I believe you are mistaken. When a woman identifies her attacker he is convicted. That's why DNA evidence is freeing so many people from prison. When a woman identifies her attacker, even mistakenly, he is convicted.

What's your source for that? It has the distinct air of bullshart. This case was not centered around the identity of the accused, so her credibility (or lack thereof) was to come in question. According to you, if a woman says she was raped, then she was raped. Without proving that it was non-consentual, however, there is no rape. Her credibility was highly questionable, and that was WITH the rape shield laws to mask the circumstances.