PDA

View Full Version : If a player has the best numbers on the best team, should he be automatically MVP?



Gibby
02-19-2011, 04:43 PM
Lets say he has the best stats in the entire NBA, and is on the team with the best record, is he an automatic MVP in your opinion? Or would take other things into consideration like his supporting cast, another players supporting cast, team improvement etc.

210Don
02-19-2011, 04:44 PM
if that was the case it be manu but no one will vote for him so obviously not.

whitemamba33
02-19-2011, 04:45 PM
Lets he has the best stats, and is on the team with the best record, is he an automatic MVP in your opinion. Or would take other things into consideration like, his supporting cast, another players supporting cast, team improvement etc.

huh?

Gibby
02-19-2011, 04:45 PM
if that was the case it be manu but no one will vote for him so obviously not.

sorry for the confusion. I meant best numbers in the entire NBA, not just on his team.

Jazz Bear
02-19-2011, 04:46 PM
I say supporting cast etc. There is a lot of different things that go into MVP voting. I like it the way it is right now.

MiamiWadeCounty
02-19-2011, 04:46 PM
sorry for the confusion. I meant best numbers in the entire NBA, not just on his team.

Oh well that changes everything. I want my vote back.

nshush
02-19-2011, 04:56 PM
YES. It's a no-brainer. This really can't be a serious question.

Gators123
02-19-2011, 04:58 PM
Oh well that changes everything. I want my vote back.

This.

PhillyFaninLA
02-19-2011, 05:01 PM
best stats =/= most important player
best player =/= automatically mean most valuable

To me the most valuable player is on a playoff team and is the most important individual player to the teams overall success out of all playoff teams.

J-Relo
02-19-2011, 05:07 PM
Yes.

Skizzik
02-19-2011, 05:09 PM
best stats =/= most important player
best player =/= automatically mean most valuable

To me the most valuable player is on a playoff team and is the most important individual player to the teams overall success out of all playoff teams.

I agree with this. A great player on a team of great players typically won't be more valuable than a great player on a team of mediocre players. If it was the "best player in the sport" award...that would be different. And it would rarely change hands. Maybe 3 people a decade would get it. Some people like to treat the MVP like the best player in the game, which is honestly pointless, we all know who that is.

PrettyBoyJ
02-19-2011, 05:12 PM
if you have the best numbers in the league, and your team is winning while your posting those numbers I think that more then qualifies you to be MVP.. Example Lebron the 2 seasons...

Cano4prez
02-19-2011, 05:16 PM
if you have the best numbers in the league, and your team is winning while your posting those numbers I think that more then qualifies you to be MVP.. Example Lebron the 2 seasons...

This

Kobes a Killer
02-19-2011, 05:19 PM
Not all the time, I think it depends what other players are doing with the little they have on their team, don't have to be the best team in the league to be the MVP

Minimal
02-19-2011, 05:20 PM
Yes.
If u post one of the biggest numbers in the league and your team has a great record, that means you are the main part and an engine of that winning team.

sammid21
02-19-2011, 05:20 PM
I don't think so. Example being the heat. Sure lebron is having a great year, MVP worthy, but since he got wade and bosh, who both can create a double team, lebron has an easier time elevating his game without as much pressure. You've seen some night that wade has a better 30+point game because the other teams focus on stopping lebron. So that being the case, lebron wouldn't be double teamed as much because of the other superstars on his team. The best player in the league doesn't always win MVP. Otherwise Jordan wouldve had more MVPs. And lebron is the best player on the planet,

JordansBulls
02-19-2011, 05:24 PM
Lets say he has the best stats in the entire NBA, and is on the team with the best record, is he an automatic MVP in your opinion? Or would take other things into consideration like his supporting cast, another players supporting cast, team improvement etc.

Either Best Stats period meaning in PER, Win Shares and Win Shares/PER 48 or one of the top 3 stats and best record in the league as long as your teammate is not in that top 3-4 stats in the league as well.

Kashmir13579
02-19-2011, 05:32 PM
Monta

J-Relo
02-19-2011, 05:38 PM
Either Best Stats period meaning in PER, Win Shares and Win Shares/PER 48 or one of the top 3 stats and best record in the league as long as your teammate is not in that top 3-4 stats in the league as well.

it's no difference between having a complete team or a superstar who makes fills the gaps

Raph12
02-19-2011, 05:40 PM
Yes, without a doubt... Unless there is someone on a Top 3 team in the league with very similar/comparable stats.

Minimal
02-19-2011, 05:42 PM
Either Best Stats period meaning in PER, Win Shares and Win Shares/PER 48 or one of the top 3 stats and best record in the league as long as your teammate is not in that top 3-4 stats in the league as well.
:facepalm:
You always deserve it, I knew u will come to this thread to brag about LeBron again.
Lets say Wade is changed by Stephen Curry and Stephen Jackson for example and there is no Wade on the team.

LeBron's supporting cast stays on the same level as it was with Wade and he still puts up the same numbers. Will he be an MVP in your eyes? I doubt that, because you are a hater. Your only excuse about LeBron not being MVP is because he has 2nd best player in the league playing by his side.

If you put absolutely best numbers in the league and your team is not a 1st seed team that means players supporting cast isn't that good as it might look.

Your point is LeBron will deserve an MVP only if LeBron and Wade become Co-MVP's. I don't have a problem with that.

I can't believe there is a mod on PSD who brags about LeBron on any given thread.

JordansBulls
02-19-2011, 05:46 PM
:facepalm:
You always deserve it, I knew u will come to this thread to brag about LeBron again.
Lets say Wade is changed by Stephen Curry and Stephen Jackson for example and there is no Wade on the team.

LeBron's supporting cast stays on the same level as it was with Wade and he still puts up the same numbers. Will he be an MVP in your eyes? I doubt that, because you are a hater. Your only excuse about LeBron not being MVP is because he has 2nd best player in the league playing by his side.

If you put absolutely best numbers in the league and your team is not a 1st seed team that means players supporting cast isn't that good as it might look.

Your point is LeBron will deserve an MVP only if LeBron and Wade become Co-MVP's. I don't have a problem with that.

It's Wade's supporting cast not Lebron's. It's his team and he is the proven winner.


http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_james_100709.html



Going to Miami, it isnít going to be LeBronís team. It is Wadeís team because heís been there and has won a championship there. So the obvious point was that this would not be LeBronís championship if he gets one or more, that he needed to go get help from a champion and another star.

Minimal
02-19-2011, 05:54 PM
It's Wade's supporting cast not Lebron's. It's his team and he is the proven winner.


http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_james_100709.html
So u say Wade is clearly MVP of the HEAT?

J-Relo
02-19-2011, 05:58 PM
It's Wade's supporting cast not Lebron's. It's his team and he is the proven winner.


http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_james_100709.html

:catfight::catfight::catfight:

JordansBulls
02-19-2011, 06:03 PM
So u say Wade is clearly MVP of the HEAT?

Lebron's clearly not which is the point you are making. You are saying it is Lebron's supporting cast, when it in fact is Wade's supporting cast.

J-Relo
02-19-2011, 06:05 PM
Lebron's clearly not which is the point you are making. You are saying it is Lebron's supporting cast, when it in fact is Wade's supporting cast.

it depends from which perspective do you look, if from Arroyo - it's Arroyo supporting cast...

by the way basketball is a team game.

Minimal
02-19-2011, 06:09 PM
Lebron's clearly not which is the point you are making. You are saying it is Lebron's supporting cast, when it in fact is Wade's supporting cast.
Well there is a player and his supporting cast. LeBron has supporting cast and Wade has supporting cast, even Brian Scalabrine has a supporting cast, If you didn't know that.

I asked you a simple question: is Wade HEAT MVP in your eyes?
You can't even answer it.

DodgerBulls
02-19-2011, 06:09 PM
You have to ask yourself first what the word "valuable" means to you when it comes to NBA MVP. People confuses this to the best player/stats.

J-Relo
02-19-2011, 06:14 PM
You have to ask yourself first what the word "valuable" means to you when it comes to NBA MVP. People confuses this to the best player/stats.

One of the best players + One of the best records (+ The Biggest impact to the team).

$ NyC $
02-19-2011, 06:15 PM
No, i think its all about the difference you make and the effect you have on the team. Would say your team should have at least 50 wins too.

Minimal
02-19-2011, 06:21 PM
No, i think its all about the difference you make and the effect you have on the team. Would say your team should have at least 50 wins too.
You put up the biggest numbers in the league and your team has the best record in the league that means you have the biggest effect on your team.

Some people come to mind:
LeBron last 2 seasons and this season
Wade 2008-2009 season (Wade was huge, but LeBron was more)
Chris Paul 2007-2008 season
Dirk Nowitzki 2005-06 and 2006-07 seasons.

JasonJohnHorn
02-19-2011, 07:28 PM
I say no. Say you are on a team like the Spurs, or the 04 Pistons, or the Amare/Nash Suns you may have the best numbers on the best team, but those teams employ team-ball. Everybody's success id dependant on everybody else buying into the system and playing together. Everybody from the coach, all the way down to the guy who is 7th or 8th in the rotation really plays a major part. Its all about team-ball and sharing, and making the extra pass.


There is also a debate as to what makes the best numbers? I mean if a guy is averaging a tripple double, is a solid defender, has a high FG%, 3PT%, FT% so around 20 +/- , does commit a lot of fouls or turnovers, and his team has the best recound, then yeah, hands down.

Now say one guy (Dwight Howard say) gets around 20+ and 12+ boards, but more turnovers than assists, is he posting better numbers than say if a guy like Rose or CP3 or D-Will is posting 20+ and 10+ assists whilst grabing 4-5 boards? Its debatable.

MVP is about intangibles as much as it is about numbers and team success. The Cavs current record illustrates that LBJ truly was the MVP the last two season (I know the Cavs have lost more than one player this season, Shaq, Z, LBJ, and MoWill and AndersoV have missed time), but the dramatic difference says to me that: YES; LBJ was that valuable. His impact got a team that would have otherwise been in the lottery, the best record in the NBA. But we dont always work with that kind of hindsight.

You sometimes see a lottery team turn into a contender with an addition like Kidd in NJ or Nash in PHO. But while their impact made them legit MVP candidates, they didnt post the 'best' numbers.

There are just too many factors. So I cant believe that a simple 'best numbers on the best team' is a template you can apply every season.

HakeemTheDream
02-19-2011, 07:34 PM
In most cases I would say yes, but there are exceptions imo. For example lets say Chicago turn out to be the best team by a slight margin, and Rose has the best numbers (which he doesn't but lets pretend he does), I would still say Lebron still has an argument because he's a much better defender and is the linchpin to a very good defensive team without an imposing big man (which is something you don't see very often). Take Rose out the Bulls and they will still be 1st in defensive efficiency, but take Lebron out and their defense will take a huge hit (according to 82games.com teams score 6 points less (per 48 mins) when Lebron is on the court which is impressive considering how James Jones (his replacement) is a decent defender who takes a lot of charges). And obviously Dwight makes an even better argument than Lebron does, but you get the point I think.

So long story short, the answer is no, defense can't be measured by stats like ppg/apg/rpg/spg/bpg (Rodman is one of the best defenders of all time and didn't get many blocks or steals) so relying on stats alone would not be fair to the MVP candidates who play great defense.

Redbull
02-19-2011, 07:54 PM
Not automatically but most of the time yes.

Khalifa21
02-19-2011, 10:14 PM
Best numbers in the league and best record?

Yes, he should be MVP.

ttam68
02-19-2011, 10:21 PM
Anyone that said no didn't read your post.

If you:

1. Have the best stats in the league (I would consider this some advanced stat, i.e. WS)

2. Are on the best team

I can't imagine an argument against you.

Skizzik
02-19-2011, 10:36 PM
Anyone that said no didn't read your post.

If you:

1. Have the best stats in the league (I would consider this some advanced stat, i.e. WS)

2. Are on the best team

I can't imagine an argument against you.

I said no and there certainly is an argument against it. Not that you have to agree with the argument, but acting like it makes anyone who says no's argument invalid is silly. Some of us just define valuable in a different way. When you're on the best team, even if you are the best player, it's unlikely you're as valuable to your team as other players somewhere in the league.

Normally the best team has more than one person carrying the weight. Meanwhile, there's almost always at least one star over achieving with a motley crew of players. There's a difference in situations like Lebron in Cleveland or Dirk in Dallas or CP3 in New Orleans, etc...than say Lebron in Miami or something similar. Ask Lebron last year or Dirk or CP3 or Rose this year what it's like when it's crunch time and they're constantly harassed.

It's a lot easier to double team a star who has no star help. Meanwhile in say Boston or Miami, during the closing minutes, if a team double teams one all-star, they can pass it off to another all-star and that all-star can pass it off to another all-star. I think stars without another all-star on their roster but still putting up large win totals and keeping their team relevant are far more valuable than stars sharing the load, regardless of stats.

blastmasta26
02-20-2011, 12:59 AM
Best numbers in the league, and on the best team? Yes, definitely deserving of the MVP.

SportsAndrew25
02-20-2011, 03:15 AM
No. An MVP is a player who contributes the most to a certain team's success. For instance, (I will use a basketball example to prove my point) Lebron James, when with the Cavaliers last year, helped carry the team to a 61 Win Season, and won the MVP award. Of course, as we all know, Lebron took his talents to South Beach and joined the Heat. The Cavaliers now are a 10 Win team at this point of the season.