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View Full Version : Reggie Miller Won't Be A Hall of Fame Finalist



JordansBulls
02-18-2011, 09:39 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/18/sports/basketball/18hall.html?_r=1&src=twrhp




When the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame announces its finalists for the class of 2011 on Friday, one name will be conspicuous in its absence: that of Reggie Miller, the former Indiana Pacers sharpshooter, who is in his first year of eligibility.

Miller, 45, who retired in 2005 and will be in Los Angeles this weekend as an analyst for TNT during All-Star weekend, was not on the Hall of Fame’s list, according to a person who was made aware that Miller had not been chosen and who asked for anonymity because the results had not been made public.

Basketball’s Hall of Fame, unlike baseball’s, seldom turns to milestones, like 3,000 hits or 300 victories, as guides to induction. It attempts to evaluate the most important contributors to the sport throughout the world, not just in the N.B.A., so it is somewhat difficult to weigh the merits of Uljana Semjonova, a women’s player from Latvia, against Dan Issel, a former All-Star and A.B.A. co-rookie of the year, although both were selected in 1993.

Four groups from the Hall take part in the voting: the North American, the Veterans, the International and the Women’s Committees.

To become a finalist from the North American group, nominees must receive approval on at least seven of nine ballots. The other committees require approval from at least five of the seven. To be selected for the Hall, a finalist needs at least 18 of 24 votes from what is known as the Honors Committee, a group consisting of Hall of Famers, basketball executives, members of the news media and other contributors to the game. Committee members are not aware of one another’s identities.


“He took a very troubled franchise and ended up in the Eastern Conference finals six times,” Walsh said of Miller. “That’s pretty impressive for a guy who weighs about 185 pounds, and in the years that he did it, he was a marked guy and he relished it. I feel very thankful to Reggie to what he did for the Pacers and I just feel he deserves that honor, whether it comes now, later or whatever.”

D1JM
02-18-2011, 09:45 AM
He deserves to be a HOF

koLohe2133
02-18-2011, 09:47 AM
Wasn't there a thread debating whether Elton brand gets in??


This is ridiculous. miller was one of the greatest players of the 1990s-early 2000s. Not his fault he ran into mj

MiamiWadeCounty
02-18-2011, 09:48 AM
He deserves to be a HOF


Wasn't there a thread debating whether Elton brand gets in??


This is ridiculous. miller was one of the greatest players of the 1990s-early 2000s. Not his fault he ran into mj



He obviously will be a HOF, there is no argument there. The point is whether or not he deserved it this year, which I think he did, however I am not familiar with International basketball, so I don't know the other people being honored.

D1JM
02-18-2011, 09:51 AM
He obviously will be a HOF, there is no argument there. The point is whether or not he deserved it this year, which I think he did, however I am not familiar with International basketball, so I don't know the other people being honored.

I thought he was going to get voted unanimously the first year available.

koLohe2133
02-18-2011, 09:57 AM
Should be a first ballot. Reggie was a great player.

Mile High Champ
02-18-2011, 10:08 AM
Half the panel must of been Knicks fans voting... haha.

He should get in, he is arguably the most clutch player in NBA history.

millerandco
02-18-2011, 10:10 AM
if he does't make it i give up on the HOF

NYK|NYY
02-18-2011, 10:10 AM
I hate Reggie but he should have gotten in.

Weezy
02-18-2011, 10:11 AM
He should get in and I am a Knick fan.

Raidaz4Life
02-18-2011, 10:12 AM
What a joke.

KobeOwnSU
02-18-2011, 10:27 AM
Wow...If he isn't a first ballot HOF, who is???

dc5jdm
02-18-2011, 10:37 AM
The NBA needs its own HOF, Reggie will eventually get in. Am I the only who thinks there should be two HOF the NBA and the International Basketball HOF??

AntiG
02-18-2011, 10:37 AM
Garbage. He should be in easily.

PrettyBoyJ
02-18-2011, 10:37 AM
All 4 major sports have no clue who should get in... Reggie Def. deserves to get in..

MrfadeawayJB
02-18-2011, 11:45 AM
Vote Reggie in!!!

Mile High Champ
02-18-2011, 11:49 AM
Tragedy.. The basketball HOF is a joke.

Super.
02-18-2011, 11:57 AM
Half the panel must of been Knicks fans voting... haha.

He should get in, he is arguably the most clutch player in NBA history.

This

HallofFameKidd
02-18-2011, 12:04 PM
Shameful. They got it wrong this time around.

Rocketsfan85
02-18-2011, 12:13 PM
He was good but I don't think he's good enough to be a HOF

KnicksorBust
02-18-2011, 12:14 PM
5x All-Star
No Rings
0 All-NBA 1st Team
0 All-NBA 2nd Team
Averaged 18ppg - 3rpg - 3apg during his career
Terrible Defender

Where is the tragedy?

Rentzias
02-18-2011, 12:18 PM
he is arguably the most clutch player in NBA history.

I'd like to hear this argument. Let's say versus Bird, Jordan, Magic, Logo.

smith&wesson
02-18-2011, 12:19 PM
he gets my vote

Chronz
02-18-2011, 12:33 PM
GREAT NEWS




This is ridiculous. miller was one of the greatest players of the 1990s-early 2000s. Not his fault he ran into mj
FALSE
PS Id rather start a franchise with Brand than Miller



Half the panel must of been Knicks fans voting... haha.

He should get in, he is arguably the most clutch player in NBA history.
I bet you Knicks fans would be more likely to vote for him as they were pretty much the only guys who saw the best of Reggie.
An undeserved clutch reputation IMO. He probably was clutch but I doubt he was the most clutch, his clutch moments were just more memorable and have been replayed over and over in the youtube era.

Throughout his career he was NEVER seen as one of the games best players, the dude wasnt even a unanimous all-star throughout his career so why should be he a unanimous HOF?

jsimms92
02-18-2011, 12:49 PM
5x All-Star
No Rings
0 All-NBA 1st Team
0 All-NBA 2nd Team
Averaged 18ppg - 3rpg - 3apg during his career
Terrible Defender

Where is the tragedy?

Thank you

td0tsfinest
02-18-2011, 12:50 PM
His resume isn't as great as people make it out to be:



Reggie's career scoring average is 18.2 points per game. It is good, but not great.

While he's known as a scorer, he never won a scoring title and only placed in the top 10 in scoring once in his career.

rebound (3.0/game) and assist (3.0/game) averages weren't particularly impressive.

He was selected to play in only five All-Star Games. A relatively low total for a Hall of Famer.

Miller received MVP votes in only two different seasons, finishing his career with a grand total of just 3 points in the MVP voting.

He never won an NBA Championship or any individual awards. No first or second team selections.


There is definitely a case for him to not make it the first time around. But he'll eventually make it to the Hall. He did greatly impact the league, part of a great rivalry in the 90s and one of the greatest 3 pt shooters.

Frrrrank!!!
02-18-2011, 12:52 PM
Wow.

johnnychan
02-18-2011, 12:53 PM
He will eventually get in, but yeah there is def. an arguement for why he should not be.

Kashmir13579
02-18-2011, 01:06 PM
he will eventually. sometimes it takes a while.

Kashmir13579
02-18-2011, 01:10 PM
GREAT NEWS



FALSE
PS Id rather start a franchise with Brand than Miller



I bet you Knicks fans would be more likely to vote for him as they were pretty much the only guys who saw the best of Reggie.
An undeserved clutch reputation IMO. He probably was clutch but I doubt he was the most clutch, his clutch moments were just more memorable and have been replayed over and over in the youtube era.

Throughout his career he was NEVER seen as one of the games best players, the dude wasnt even a unanimous all-star throughout his career so why should be he a unanimous HOF?

wow. this is REGGIE MILLER you are talking about. not michael redd.

All-time great as far as i'm concerned. he might not be a unanimous HOF, but he no doubt deserves to be in there. Wow, Chronz, just wow. Elton Brand? ya kidding me?

Mr Grim
02-18-2011, 01:21 PM
Reggie Miller was awesome. As a Knicks fan I watched him rape us more than once, but I cant deny what an absolute lethal long range shooter he was. I bet if you asked any GM back then if they'd like to get Reggie they'd absolutley jump at the chance. People who dont think he deserves to be in clearly werent watching basketball in the 90's because that man was a straight assassin and a star. Elton Brand? Good joke.

blacknell
02-18-2011, 01:23 PM
WoW thats all i can say.. Reggie Miller should be a first ballot HOF he used to give Jordan and NY fits.. Thats when basketball was great to watch

CityofTreez
02-18-2011, 01:25 PM
Whoa!

I definitely thought he was a 1st Ballot HoF'er lock.

I can't wait to see the guys who get in over him!

Algmuskrats
02-18-2011, 01:43 PM
Get this man in.

J4KOP99
02-18-2011, 01:48 PM
Damn. I think we need a re-vote.

knicksfan42
02-18-2011, 01:58 PM
5x All-Star
No Rings
0 All-NBA 1st Team
0 All-NBA 2nd Team
Averaged 18ppg - 3rpg - 3apg during his career
Terrible Defender

Where is the tragedy?

Just about to post this.

sep11ie
02-18-2011, 02:01 PM
The HOF is getting as bad as the All Star game.

TheDiggler
02-18-2011, 02:21 PM
That Guy deserves being HOF ! Killer Miller ...

Chronz
02-18-2011, 02:29 PM
wow. this is REGGIE MILLER you are talking about. not michael redd.

All-time great as far as i'm concerned. he might not be a unanimous HOF, but he no doubt deserves to be in there. Wow, Chronz, just wow. Elton Brand? ya kidding me?

Reggie Miller yes the same guy MJ referred to as a joke and wasnt good enough to consistently make the All-Star team, hes basically Michael Redd with longevity

If hes an All-Time great then the league has a shitload of all timers, again Im not just saying he wasnt a unanimous HOFer but he wasnt even a unanimous All-Star. He was a prolific shooter who couldnt get it done despite a great team.

Elton Brand was a better player throughout his career

Chronz
02-18-2011, 02:34 PM
Reggie Miller was awesome. As a Knicks fan I watched him rape us more than once, but I cant deny what an absolute lethal long range shooter he was. I bet if you asked any GM back then if they'd like to get Reggie they'd absolutley jump at the chance. People who dont think he deserves to be in clearly werent watching basketball in the 90's because that man was a straight assassin and a star. Elton Brand? Good joke.
How can he be a star if he wasnt even a consistent all-star? Hes just a guy that played for so long at a consistent level that people begin overrate/appreciate his talent at the end when they realize just how long hes played and how rare that is.

Bornknick73
02-18-2011, 02:57 PM
Curtis Martin recently didnt make the final list either but he had stiff competition.

Who were the finalist chosen ahead of him?

Reggie is a HOF without a doubt championships or not.

Car Ramrod
02-18-2011, 02:57 PM
How can he be a star if he wasnt even a consistent all-star? Hes just a guy that played for so long at a consistent level that people begin overrate/appreciate his talent at the end when they realize just how long hes played and how rare that is.

Is it a flaw that a player was really good for a long period of time?

Elton Brand may have been a great player. But you can't make the Hall of Fame unless you play. Ask Grant Hill.

Chronz
02-18-2011, 03:07 PM
Is it a flaw that a player was really good for a long period of time?

Elton Brand may have been a great player. But you can't make the Hall of Fame unless you play. Ask Grant Hill.
It comes down to what you value more, peak performance or longevity. Even if you value longevity Im simply debunking the myth that he was a superstar, the guy wasnt even an all-star most of the time, he was simply a proficient shooter who played forever and had a few memorable moments but was never on top of the league. Superstars atleast have a case for this being true at some point in there careers, Reggie didnt.

The HOF is such a joke that I dont really care if he makes it or not but I wont let people remake history to fit their argument.

I actually think Grant Hill has a better chance based on his collegiate career and dominance early. Id rather build around him for a those short years he was elite than build around Reggie and know Id have my work cut out for me trying to fit him with the perfect teammates. Grant Hill could lead a team to a title, Reggie would have to fit in.

JordansBulls
02-18-2011, 03:26 PM
5x All-Star
No Rings
0 All-NBA 1st Team
0 All-NBA 2nd Team
Averaged 18ppg - 3rpg - 3apg during his career
Terrible Defender

Where is the tragedy?

Somehow guys like Kemp, KJ, Tim Hardaway, Penny Hardaway, Chris Mullin aren't in either despite having as many allstar appearances and even finishing higher in MVP voting. Also now you can understand why a guy like Rodman who was only a 2x allstar is not in.

John Walls Era
02-18-2011, 03:26 PM
I don't like this. But some of you posters are killing him

njnets
02-18-2011, 03:32 PM
HATE the man...but he was so good. deserves first ballot HOF no questions asked.

a4anthony
02-18-2011, 03:44 PM
Wow...If he isn't a first ballot HOF, who is???

Nobody I guess, I thought he was a first ballot HOF in everyones eyes, I guess not though.

Double_R
02-18-2011, 04:02 PM
Ha, maybe this will shut up those lame celtics fans that think PP and RA are locks. ahhaha

a4anthony
02-18-2011, 04:21 PM
Ha, maybe this will shut up those lame celtics fans that think PP and RA are locks. ahhaha

How is that relevant? Reggie Miller still will get in. Also the Celtics have four players locked for the HOF PP,RA,KG, and Shaq they may not be first ballot as we seen with miller but they all ARE going in.

Bruno
02-18-2011, 04:24 PM
WOW. I'd like to see who is getting in this year. Anybody in their first year of eligibility? Reggie is clearly a HOFer.

ShockerArt
02-18-2011, 04:33 PM
I really don't see why this is such a tragedy. He was a great shooter, not a great player. I'm not sure he's a HOFer, much less a first-ballot, unanimous selection like some people think.

carnage101
02-18-2011, 04:39 PM
How is that relevant? Reggie Miller still will get in. Also the Celtics have four players locked for the HOF PP,RA,KG, and Shaq they may not be first ballot as we seen with miller but they all ARE going in.

Ray allen did squat on his own, if reggie didn't make it first ballot there is no way ray allen makes it. Reggie was and always be better than ray ray..

Hawkeye15
02-18-2011, 04:49 PM
Reggie will get in, but I am fine with him being left off first ballot opportunity. Great shooter, but what else did he do??

Hawkeye15
02-18-2011, 04:55 PM
just read thru after posting my initial thought.

Reggie was never considered a top 5 player in the NBA any given year he played. Many of you are remembering his playoff heroics (the few times he saved the day), instead of properly looking at him. At no time was he ever considered a legit MVP candidate, he was a terrible defender, he didn't rebound, he didn't do anything outside shoot. He was a very streaky shooter who could blow your mind when hot, but the fact is, many of you are remembering his Knicks playoff performances and not concentrating on his play as a whole. Miller was a borderline all star throughout his career, has no rings to show for it, despite an actually talented roster, and was never a top player in the league at any given point.

He will go down as one of the best SHOOTERS of all time. No way he goes down as one of the best PLAYERs of all time.

carnage101
02-18-2011, 05:07 PM
just read thru after posting my initial thought.

Reggie was never considered a top 5 player in the NBA any given year he played. Many of you are remembering his playoff heroics (the few times he saved the day), instead of properly looking at him. At no time was he ever considered a legit MVP candidate, he was a terrible defender, he didn't rebound, he didn't do anything outside shoot. He was a very streaky shooter who could blow your mind when hot, but the fact is, many of you are remembering his Knicks playoff performances and not concentrating on his play as a whole. Miller was a borderline all star throughout his career, has no rings to show for it, despite an actually talented roster, and was never a top player in the league at any given point.

He will go down as one of the best SHOOTERS of all time. No way he goes down as one of the best PLAYERs of all time.

name a more consistent sg in that era over a period of time lets say 10-12 years. because he didn't rebound or defend as well as you'd want someone to name someone better in that era? Talented pacer teams? rick smits mark jackson, an over the hill chris mullin, Jalen rose was the best talent he had . He made it to the finals without any help. yes he had no rings but that wasn't his fault, just like every other HOFers during that era that didn't win a ring, malone , stockton, payton ( i don't count that ring in miami)

carnage101
02-18-2011, 05:13 PM
He also deserves more respect for not ring chasing because he could have esily signed with celtics to achieve that

ShockerArt
02-18-2011, 05:22 PM
name a more consistent sg in that era over a period of time lets say 10-12 years. because he didn't rebound or defend as well as you'd want someone to name someone better in that era? Talented pacer teams? rick smits mark jackson, an over the hill chris mullin, Jalen rose was the best talent he had . He made it to the finals without any help. yes he had no rings but that wasn't his fault, just like every other HOFers during that era that didn't win a ring, malone , stockton, payton ( i don't count that ring in miami)

Michael Jordan, Clyde Drexler, and Joe Dumars come to mind.

Hawkeye15
02-18-2011, 05:23 PM
name a more consistent sg in that era over a period of time lets say 10-12 years. because he didn't rebound or defend as well as you'd want someone to name someone better in that era? Talented pacer teams? rick smits mark jackson, an over the hill chris mullin, Jalen rose was the best talent he had . He made it to the finals without any help. yes he had no rings but that wasn't his fault, just like every other HOFers during that era that didn't win a ring, malone , stockton, payton ( i don't count that ring in miami)

So Miller should get credit for being a top SG in an era of bad SG's (outside the GOAT)? I think not.

Don't pull a Sixer fan response and attempt to negate the Pacer's roster support for him.

Fact is, shouldn't a HOF, first ballot guy, not be a fringe all star throughout his career, and be known for one thing? Its why Rodman isn't in yet.

Hawkeye15
02-18-2011, 05:26 PM
Michael Jordan, Clyde Drexler, and Joe Dumars come to mind.

on top of that, Reggie's longevity is the ONLY reason he is ahead of a few others

Hawkeye15
02-18-2011, 05:27 PM
He also deserves more respect for not ring chasing because he could have esily signed with celtics to achieve that

as a man, but not a player. He should be judged on his play. Nothing more

Hawkeye15
02-18-2011, 05:28 PM
Reggie will make it. But he isn't an automatic bid. There are tons of better players in history. Reggie played a long time, and had some great moments that trigger the memories for many of you, but when you strip away his game, he was simply a great shooter. Nothing more.

SFG'sTillID_I_E
02-18-2011, 05:28 PM
I seen Maurice Cheeks name up there and thought how does he make it as a finalist over Miller? And besides, there's no way he gets in before a PG like say Kevin Johnson. KJ was a dominant PG before Barkley got to Phoenix, put multiple 20 and 10 seasons and was one of the top PG's in the NBA when he played maybe only behind Magic, Thomas, and Stockton. The NBA HOF voters are slippin.

jsimms92
02-18-2011, 05:33 PM
If Rodman isnt a first ballot HOfer than neither is Miller

JasonJohnHorn
02-18-2011, 05:38 PM
This is FUBAR!!!!! Jesus!

JordansBulls
02-18-2011, 06:28 PM
If Rodman isnt a first ballot HOfer than neither is Miller

How is that? You think a 2x allstar deserves to be in the hall over a guy with 5+ allstar appearances and led teams to the conference finals 6x? Sure Rodman won titles, but could he lead a team as the best player to the conference finals? Hell no.

Bruno
02-18-2011, 06:34 PM
Reggie will make it. But he isn't an automatic bid. There are tons of better players in history. Reggie played a long time, and had some great moments that trigger the memories for many of you, but when you strip away his game, he was simply a great shooter. Nothing more.

I feel like that slightly under-sells him. For me personally, what makes Reggie great is that competitive fire. Especially in todays league, where everyone is buddy-buddy, and super-stars combine forces to create super-teams; even when he had a chance to sign with the Celtics before the 2007-2008 season he decided not to because the thought of wearing another uniform, or riding other younger starts to a title conflicted with who he was, and what he was all about. Reggie has always represented that under-dog, who is always counted out, he always boxed above his weight, literally and figuratively.

When I think Reggie Miller, I think one of the only guys who could actually challenge MJ, and come close to matching his competitive fire. Reggie took an irrelevant franchise, and took them to what, six ECF?

I mean, you are right. He was a great shooter- but I mean, one of the greatest shooters ever man. Have you seen his career TS%? Over . 600 in both his 18 year regular season career, and in 144 playoff games over 15 post seasons. That's brilliant efficiency for a SG.

I agree that there are better players in NBA history, and that previous players with arguably better resumes were passed over on their first year of eligibility, but I am curious as to who was selected in-front of him this year. IMO Reggie is a clear-cut HOFer and if he doesn't get selected by his third/fourth year of eligibility, it would undermine what he contributed.

This also makes me think, how long after his first year of eligibility will Vince Carter be selected to the HOF? Cause if Reggie can't get in for a few years, you gotta imagine it will take Vince longer.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millere01.html

What?
02-18-2011, 06:53 PM
Miller always stepped his game up big time in the playoffs and 27th in career points, 6th in ts%, 9th in ft%, 2nd in Ortg, 2nd in 3pt shots, 7 in Ows and 13 in ws is a pretty impressive resume

In the playoffs he had a couple of great years his career stats don't show it because he was already over the hill on his final 2 long playoff runs

Kashmir13579
02-18-2011, 06:56 PM
Reggie Miller yes the same guy MJ referred to as a joke and wasnt good enough to consistently make the All-Star team, hes basically Michael Redd with longevity

If hes an All-Time great then the league has a shitload of all timers, again Im not just saying he wasnt a unanimous HOFer but he wasnt even a unanimous All-Star. He was a prolific shooter who couldnt get it done despite a great team.

Elton Brand was a better player throughout his career

what did Elton Brand ever do? have a better PER?

3 numbers, 1 word... 50-40-90-club.

one of the best shooters the NBA has ever seen, no matter how you look at it. he has the numbers and achievements to back it up.

the catalyst in what is widely regarded as one of the greatest comeback of all time. an iconic moment.

the only players that have scored at least 1 3pt bucket in more consecutive games are Dana Barros and Dennis Scott (don't quote me on that one)

only two players have played more consecutive games on the same team. Stockton and Malone.

i'm sure there is more that i'm leaving out. he deserves to be in there.

carnage101
02-18-2011, 06:59 PM
on top of that, Reggie's longevity is the ONLY reason he is ahead of a few others

you named 3 of the greatest players of all time there is no debating that but people also make the HOF that aren't the best of all time.

I'm sorry but the pacers ran their offense thru a player who couldn't create his own shot (being reggie) and still had no problem scoring. Reggies longevity hurts his numbers not helps. The pacers were no where near talented as their competition. Lets not forget what he did for the pacers after artest was a moron and decided to fight the entire det arena.... reggie at 38 brought a depleted team to the ECF. I might be a little biased but I don't think reggie cares if he was a 1st ballot HOFer for as long as he makes it.

akagiredsuns
02-18-2011, 07:09 PM
It sucks that Reggie is not in the Hall this year, but guys relax. We all know what he did and in all likelihood he will be on the ballot next year. You know how these things are. What about guys in other sports that waited for years and years before they made it? Richard Dent, Bert Blyleven? Ron Santo should be in it and after 30 years he ain't, and he's dead now. The HOF is an honor, but it's also poorly judged. Reggie will get it next year. Miller fans hang in there and weather it out.

carnage101
02-18-2011, 07:11 PM
It sucks that Reggie is not in the Hall this year, but guys relax. We all know what he did and in all likelihood he will be on the ballot next year. You know how these things are. What about guys in other sports that waited for years and years before they made it? Richard Dent, Bert Blyleven? Ron Santo should be in it and after 30 years he ain't, and he's dead now. The HOF is an honor, but it's also poorly judged. Reggie will get it next year. Miller fans hang in there and weather it out.

i agree he will get there i'm not worried

ChiTownPacerFan
02-18-2011, 07:12 PM
To anyone who doesn't believe Reggie should have been a first ballot hall of famer.

Exhibit A. http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ws_career.html

Reggie is 10th all-time in win shares. Everyone else in the top 10 are first ballot hall-of-famers. Actually, almost all of the top 30 are first ballot hall-of-famers. Seriously, look at that list. You can't just luck into the top ten all time in win shares.

His playoff credentials:

#7 all time offensive win shares
Top 20 all-time overall win shares
Top 20 all-time scoring
#1 all time three pointers made
Top 10 all time free throw shooter
#12 all time in true shooting percentage
#11 all time in offensive rating
#15 all time in free throws made

As for the regular season, maybe more impressive:

as I said earlier, #10 all time in win shares
#2 all time in offensive rating
#6 all time in true shooting percentage
#14 all time in scoring
#6 all time in Minutes played
#2 all time in 3 pointers made
#12 all time in free throws made
#9 all time in free throw percentage
#7 all time in offensive win shares

If those aren't the numbers of a first ballot hall-of-famer, I don't know what are. The only thing that's missing of course is a championship ring, but, is that really a requirement to get in on the first ballot?

Hustlenomics
02-18-2011, 07:23 PM
well this thread got interesting..

championships
02-18-2011, 07:24 PM
Big snubb. He will get in eventually.

Bruno
02-18-2011, 07:26 PM
The argument for Reggie, from an advance statistics view point:

He has the 6th highest TS% in the history of the NBA (Higher than Magic, Barkley, Stockton, Nash, ect).
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ts_pct_career.html

He has the 2nd highest offensive rating in the history of the NBA (Chris Paul, Magic Johnson, John Stockton, and Steve Kerr round out the top 5).
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/off_rtg_career.html

He is 7th all-time in offensive Win-Shares (Behind KAJ, Wilt, Oscar, MJ, Stockton, Malone).
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ows_career.html

He is 13th all-time in total Win-Shares.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career.html

Reggie Miller is 17th all time in total points scored (including ABA/ 14th counting only NBA) with 25, 279 total points scored.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_career.html

Miller led the NBA in FT% on five seperate occasions, and is 9th all-time in FT%.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ft_pct_career.html

Playoffs:

Miller is 1st in total three-pointers made in the history of the NBA playoffs.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fg3_career_p.html

Miller is 13th all-time in playoff TS%
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ts_pct_career_p.html

Miller is 8th all time in post-season offensive Win-shares.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ows_career_p.html

Miller is 19th all-time in post season Win-shares.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career_p.html

Miller led one of only two teams to ever push Jordans Bulls to seven games ('98 ECF).

A lot of these stats reward Millers longevity, sure. But longevity matters, it's one of the key elements of being an all-time great.

Chronz
02-18-2011, 07:50 PM
what did Elton Brand ever do? have a better PER?
What did he ever do? He was a better player who had an MVP caliber year once. He wasnt a regular all-star but its one thing to be passed up in an era of strong Forwards, Reggie got passed up by the likes of whathisface who died and a few other no namers. Im not saying Brand is a HOFer because the HOF isnt based on how good you were, but if I were starting a team I wouldnt choose Reggie before Brand unless I got to bring along all of Reggies teammates.


3 numbers, 1 word... 50-40-90-club.
All you need to cite is a single stat.... OFFENSIVE RATING.


one of the best shooters the NBA has ever seen, no matter how you look at it. he has the numbers and achievements to back it up.

No one ever disputed his shooting, its his overall impact that matters here. He was ALWAYS a great shooter, even so throughout his career that wasnt enough for an automatic bid to the All-Star game yet its suppose to get him into the HOF?


the catalyst in what is widely regarded as one of the greatest comeback of all time. an iconic moment.

A single moment, if you want to base HOF credentials off stuff like this then you may as well put Antoine Walker in there for inspiring his teammates on camera like no one ever has to come back and beat the Nets.

Whats the point of isolating moments? What if I chose to focus on his horrific Finals showing in G1?


the only players that have scored at least 1 3pt bucket in more consecutive games are Dana Barros and Dennis Scott (don't quote me on that one)

only two players have played more consecutive games on the same team. Stockton and Malone.

i'm sure there is more that i'm leaving out. he deserves to be in there.

Theres alot more your leaving out

Kashmir13579
02-18-2011, 08:17 PM
The argument for Reggie, from an advance statistics view point:

He has the 6th highest TS% in the history of the NBA (Higher than Magic, Barkley, Stockton, Nash, ect).
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ts_pct_career.html

He has the 2nd highest offensive rating in the history of the NBA (Chris Paul, Magic Johnson, John Stockton, and Steve Kerr round out the top 5).
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/off_rtg_career.html

He is 7th all-time in offensive Win-Shares (Behind KAJ, Wilt, Oscar, MJ, Stockton, Malone).
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ows_career.html

He is 13th all-time in total Win-Shares.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career.html

Reggie Miller is 17th all time in total points scored (including ABA/ 14th counting only NBA) with 25, 279 total points scored.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_career.html

Miller led the NBA in FT% on five seperate occasions, and is 9th all-time in FT%.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ft_pct_career.html

Playoffs:

Miller is 1st in total three-pointers made in the history of the NBA playoffs.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fg3_career_p.html

Miller is 13th all-time in playoff TS%
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ts_pct_career_p.html

Miller is 8th all time in post-season offensive Win-shares.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ows_career_p.html

Miller is 19th all-time in post season Win-shares.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career_p.html

Miller led one of only two teams to ever push Jordans Bulls to seven games ('98 ECF).

A lot of these stats reward Millers longevity, sure. But longevity matters, it's one of the key elements of being an all-time great.

:clap: thanks for doing the homework. this guy isn't a lock for the HOF?
i don't get that.

Kashmir13579
02-18-2011, 08:29 PM
What did he ever do? He was a better player who had an MVP caliber year once. He wasnt a regular all-star but its one thing to be passed up in an era of strong Forwards, Reggie got passed up by the likes of whathisface who died and a few other no namers. Im not saying Brand is a HOFer because the HOF isnt based on how good you were, but if I were starting a team I wouldnt choose Reggie before Brand unless I got to bring along all of Reggies teammates.

Reggie did his thing into the twilight of his career. i don't remember what season, but he excelled while missing a lot of key players after "the palace of auburn hills" incident. lets see Elton Brand lead the Sixers to the ECF at this point in his career.

and how good were those Pacers teams anyways, in terms of talent? the east was relatively weak when the Pacers were Conference Champs... Jermaine O'neal? his MVP consideration was a sympathy vote. lets be honest.


All you need to cite is a single stat.... OFFENSIVE RATING.

50-40-90 sounds better, imo.


No one ever disputed his shooting, its his overall impact that matters here. He was ALWAYS a great shooter, even so throughout his career that wasnt enough for an automatic bid to the All-Star game yet its suppose to get him into the HOF?
So your saying that being one of the greatest (if not the greatest) shooter the NBA has ever seen isn't enough by itself to get you the bid? that is based off a HUGE sample size. not some steve kerr (never attempted two 3s in a game) sample size.



A single moment, if you want to base HOF credentials off stuff like this then you may as well put Antoine Walker in there for inspiring his teammates on camera like no one ever has to come back and beat the Nets.
when its all said and done, Reggie's "single" moment will withstand the test of time, while walkers will be lost in the shuffle. Pacers didn't even win that year and it doesn't matter. Iconic.




Theres alot more your leaving out

thats what i said..

NYY 26 to 7
02-18-2011, 08:32 PM
WOW as a Knicks fan I can say this man deserves the hall. One of the greatest shooters ever.

JordansBulls
02-18-2011, 08:47 PM
The argument for Reggie, from an advance statistics view point:

He has the 6th highest TS% in the history of the NBA (Higher than Magic, Barkley, Stockton, Nash, ect).
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ts_pct_career.html

He has the 2nd highest offensive rating in the history of the NBA (Chris Paul, Magic Johnson, John Stockton, and Steve Kerr round out the top 5).
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/off_rtg_career.html

He is 7th all-time in offensive Win-Shares (Behind KAJ, Wilt, Oscar, MJ, Stockton, Malone).
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ows_career.html

He is 13th all-time in total Win-Shares.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career.html

Reggie Miller is 17th all time in total points scored (including ABA/ 14th counting only NBA) with 25, 279 total points scored.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_career.html

Miller led the NBA in FT% on five seperate occasions, and is 9th all-time in FT%.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ft_pct_career.html

Playoffs:

Miller is 1st in total three-pointers made in the history of the NBA playoffs.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fg3_career_p.html

Miller is 13th all-time in playoff TS%
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ts_pct_career_p.html

Miller is 8th all time in post-season offensive Win-shares.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ows_career_p.html

Miller is 19th all-time in post season Win-shares.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career_p.html

Miller led one of only two teams to ever push Jordans Bulls to seven games ('98 ECF).

A lot of these stats reward Millers longevity, sure. But longevity matters, it's one of the key elements of being an all-time great.


:nod:

Chronz
02-18-2011, 08:48 PM
Reggie did his thing into the twilight of his career. i don't remember what season, but he excelled while missing a lot of key players after "the palace of auburn hills" incident. lets see Elton Brand lead the Sixers to the ECF at this point in his career.
Yea I remember, he didnt make the ECF that year and the year he did it was as a role player by that stage whereas Brand right now is arguably the best player on his team. But I was simply saying Brand was a better player long enough to overlook the fact that he wont have Reggies longevity and thats why I would build a team around him. But thats just me, if you want to be a consistently good team with less peaks and valleys then go for it. But I would be fine with going all in for 8 years.


and how good were those Pacers teams anyways, in terms of talent? the east was relatively weak when the Pacers were Conference Champs... Jermaine O'neal? his MVP consideration was a sympathy vote. lets be honest.

They were deep enough to win at a .500 clip without their best players which despite Jermaine being overrated he still was. Still even in Reggies prime his teams were stacked, they were literally the deepest team in the 90's. The kind of support a true star would have loved.


50-40-90 sounds better, imo.
Sounds better but is still less significant.



So your saying that being one of the greatest (if not the greatest) shooter the NBA has ever seen isn't enough by itself to get you the bid?

Im saying if it wasnt even good enough to get you into the all-star game throughout your career why should it be good enough for the HOF. Then again I base the HOF off of my own credentials, the actual HOF is a hotmess so I dont even know what Im arguing against.


when its all said and done, Reggie's "single" moment will withstand the test of time, while walkers will be lost in the shuffle. Pacers didn't even win that series and it doesn't matter. Iconic.

Maybe but to me its just one game that isnt any more telling than his horrible performances, only it was replayed to the point where people falsely bought into the myth that it was how Reggie always played in big games.

ClayMatthews
02-18-2011, 08:54 PM
The guy has the HOF written all over him. He'll be there eventually.

Jahari Kavi
02-18-2011, 08:54 PM
Love Reggie but I don't think he's a HOF....numbers just aren't that great

Jahari Kavi
02-18-2011, 08:58 PM
Reggie gets hype because of the two knicks series....

Bruno
02-18-2011, 09:04 PM
Reggie gets hype because of the two knicks series....

You didn't watch Bulls/Pacers in the '98 ECF?

That series, along with Lakers/Portland in the 2000 WCF was the most exciting seven game series I've ever seen.

Hawkeye15
02-18-2011, 09:08 PM
To anyone who doesn't believe Reggie should have been a first ballot hall of famer.

Exhibit A. http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ws_career.html

Reggie is 10th all-time in win shares. Everyone else in the top 10 are first ballot hall-of-famers. Actually, almost all of the top 30 are first ballot hall-of-famers. Seriously, look at that list. You can't just luck into the top ten all time in win shares.

His playoff credentials:

#7 all time offensive win shares
Top 20 all-time overall win shares
Top 20 all-time scoring
#1 all time three pointers made
Top 10 all time free throw shooter
#12 all time in true shooting percentage
#11 all time in offensive rating
#15 all time in free throws made

As for the regular season, maybe more impressive:

as I said earlier, #10 all time in win shares
#2 all time in offensive rating
#6 all time in true shooting percentage
#14 all time in scoring
#6 all time in Minutes played
#2 all time in 3 pointers made
#12 all time in free throws made
#9 all time in free throw percentage
#7 all time in offensive win shares

If those aren't the numbers of a first ballot hall-of-famer, I don't know what are. The only thing that's missing of course is a championship ring, but, is that really a requirement to get in on the first ballot?

longevity should be factored, but then Robert Parish is a top center ever. The fact is, Reggie was never a top 5 player in the NBA during his career. You are pulling career totals for a guy who played forever. That is admirable, but he never was a dominant force in the NBA. Great shooter. Not much else.
And the age of PSD is showing thru here. The Pacers had a very good roster around him. A top 5 assist man of all time, and center who has all star numbers in today's game, great tough role players down low, and constantly good teams around him in those deep playoff runs.

Miller is being slightly overrated here. Great shooter, great competitor, who couldn't rebound, distribute or defend. He was never a top player in any season he played.

He will get in. But first ballot hall of fame snub shouldn't upset anyone outside Indiana.

Hawkeye15
02-18-2011, 09:11 PM
:clap: thanks for doing the homework. this guy isn't a lock for the HOF?
i don't get that.

he is a lock. But people shouldn't get upset he isn't a 1st ballot lock.

Bruno
02-18-2011, 09:36 PM
longevity should be factored, but then Robert Parish is a top center ever. The fact is, Reggie was never a top 5 player in the NBA during his career. You are pulling career totals for a guy who played forever. That is admirable, but he never was a dominant force in the NBA. Great shooter. Not much else.
And the age of PSD is showing thru here. The Pacers had a very good roster around him. A top 5 assist man of all time, and center who has all star numbers in today's game, great tough role players down low, and constantly good teams around him in those deep playoff runs.

Miller is being slightly overrated here. Great shooter, great competitor, who couldn't rebound, distribute or defend. He was never a top player in any season he played.

He will get in. But first ballot hall of fame snub shouldn't upset anyone outside Indiana.

Hawkeye, I don't understand how you can slight Millers career longevity, and in the same post build up Mark Jackson, while ignoring that the only reason why he is top 5 in all-time assists is because of his own personal longevity. Mark Jackson is 3rd all-time in assists, but he drops to 13rd in all-time assists per game. He played well over 1,000 games and nearly 40,000 career minutes. Jackson only led the NBA in assits per game once, and was only top 3 on two other occasions. Like Miller, Jacksons total stats reflect a good, long career. Mark Jackson never posted a PER higher than 19.0, has a career TS% of .522. He made one all-star game, and that was with the Knicks.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jacksma01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jacksma01.html

Does Rick Smits average all-star numbers today? Never averaged more than 18.5 ppg, or 7.7 rebounds per game in any season (career averages of 14.8 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 1.3 bpg, on a TS% of .548). I think that's debatable, especially in the east with Howard, Noah, Bogut and Shaqs popularity. But I don't its a great argument, whether or not he could have averaged all-star numbers today- what did he do during his own era, against the competition then? I mean point taken, he was good, but never great, just like many other one-time all stars.

I think that to say that the '98 Pacers had a equal, or better rosters than the '98 Bulls or the '00 Lakers is wrong. They had no business competing against those teams as well as they did.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smitsri01.html

A lot of people do consider Robert Parish to be one of the better centers of all-time. I mean after the obvious picks of KAJ, Shaq, Wilt, Moses, and Hakeem, there aren't a ton of guys you can put in front of Parish, that I know of. Mabye Robinson?

Maybe my age is showing, I only watched him from '98 on, but those advanced stats don't lie. IMO career totals and longevity matter a lot. It's part of the package regarding being an all-time great. Millers longevity more than makes up for the fact that he was never a top 5 player, on any given year in my book.

I guess this really just comes down to the good old argument. What do we mean when we talk about the "greatest players ever" Are talking about them, at their individual peak? Or are we talking about their entire body of work and career accomplishments?

Bruno
02-18-2011, 09:37 PM
he is a lock. But people shouldn't get upset he isn't a 1st ballot lock.

Fair enough. :clap:

I don't know enough about the history of the HOF, or who made it in on their first year of eligibility.

kArSoN RyDaH
02-18-2011, 11:19 PM
4 time all star. His NAME itself is what draws 1st ballot but if you look at his numbers he isn't a clear cut 1st ballot.

NYKalltheway
02-19-2011, 12:47 AM
This is a LOL WUT?? situation... Reggie deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.

ChiTownPacerFan
02-19-2011, 01:04 AM
longevity should be factored, but then Robert Parish is a top center ever. The fact is, Reggie was never a top 5 player in the NBA during his career. You are pulling career totals for a guy who played forever. That is admirable, but he never was a dominant force in the NBA. Great shooter. Not much else.
And the age of PSD is showing thru here. The Pacers had a very good roster around him. A top 5 assist man of all time, and center who has all star numbers in today's game, great tough role players down low, and constantly good teams around him in those deep playoff runs.

Miller is being slightly overrated here. Great shooter, great competitor, who couldn't rebound, distribute or defend. He was never a top player in any season he played.

He will get in. But first ballot hall of fame snub shouldn't upset anyone outside Indiana.

What does longevity have to do with being 10th all time in win shares. Or being 2nd all time in offensive rating. Or being 6th all time in true shooting percentage. And are you really going to fault him for his longevity in the playoffs? The reason he has those great playoff numbers isn't just because he played forever, it's because he consistently led his team deep into the playoffs.

I honestly don't understand how this is even a discussion. Maybe playing in Indiana hurt his reputation, maybe he was such a great shooter that he is only remembered for that, maybe he had such amazing clutch performances that he is only remembered for that, I don't know.

Not to derail, but this is like hearing Bill Simmons say that Ray Allen had surpassed Reggie as a player. WTF. Ray Allen never led a team to anything. As "The Guy" in Seattle, he won one playoff series in like five or six seasons. Reggie led his team to six eastern conference finals and an NBA finals. I just can't get over how much people undervalue this guy.

Edit-- The idea that Reggie couldn't play defense is the most infuriating part of all of this. It in no way reflects reality, he was a fine defender, and is totally a product of misconception. Also to say he couldn't distribute or rebound the ball is somewhat erroneous. He played in a system that had him playing mostly off the ball, so he really wasn't ever put in position to distribute it. He rarely ever turned the ball over. And he played with the likes of Dale Davis, Antonio Davis, Rik Smits, etc. It wasn't really in his job description to crash the boards. Again, it's crazy how undervalued this guy is.

DubiousCustomer
02-19-2011, 01:15 AM
He probably was clutch but I doubt he was the most clutch, his clutch moments were just more memorable and have been replayed over and over in the youtube era.

Pure jibba-jabba. Miller's entire career was in it's twilight before youtube even existed.

We all know he was the all-time leader in 3 pointers until recently. This is because he was a modern 3pt shooter ahead of his time. He should be in the Hall because he turned the three point line into a true threat.

Most people consider Bird a great 3 point shooter, but Reggie Miller made more threes in four seasons than Bird did in his entire career. Furthermore, he never led the league in attempts, a testament to his accuracy.

Bill Bradley's career stats (HoF member)
12.4 ppg
3.4 apg
3.2 rpg

Sam Jones
17.7, 2.5, 4.9

Earl Monroe
18.8, 3.9, 3.0

This is a cursory search, but it's clear most people in this thread have NO IDEA what they are talking about...

beasted86
02-19-2011, 01:19 AM
This is only a snub depending on who DOES get in.

Reggie will eventually make the HOF.

ChiTownPacerFan
02-19-2011, 01:30 AM
Reggie gets hype because of the two knicks series....

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WHERE ARE PEOPLE GETTING THIS CRAP!

Okay, sorry for that. In his first 15 playoff games, before either of those series, he shot 50 percent from downtown. I call that impressive. In the 91-92 playoffs he averaged 31.5 points per game, granted it was only 4 games. In 99-00 he averaged 24.0 points per game and led his team to the finals. What about the game 6 winner against the bulls on an injured ankle. What about hitting a half court buzzer beater, even if it didn't beat the buzzer, to send a deciding game into overtime as the 8 seed against the Nets. The guy had great playoff series after great playoff series, throughout his career, so quit it with this crap.

Chronz
02-19-2011, 01:59 AM
What does longevity have to do with being 10th all time in win shares.
Umm everything


Or being 2nd all time in offensive rating. Or being 6th all time in true shooting percentage. And are you really going to fault him for his longevity in the playoffs? The reason he has those great playoff numbers isn't just because he played forever, it's because he consistently led his team deep into the playoffs.

I honestly don't understand how this is even a discussion. Maybe playing in Indiana hurt his reputation, maybe he was such a great shooter that he is only remembered for that, maybe he had such amazing clutch performances that he is only remembered for that, I don't know.

Not to derail, but this is like hearing Bill Simmons say that Ray Allen had surpassed Reggie as a player. WTF. Ray Allen never led a team to anything. As "The Guy" in Seattle, he won one playoff series in like five or six seasons. Reggie led his team to six eastern conference finals and an NBA finals. I just can't get over how much people undervalue this guy.

Thats because your analysis consists of crediting one player for the entire good/misfortune of his team with no regards to the support in place vs their era.


Edit-- The idea that Reggie couldn't play defense is the most infuriating part of all of this. It in no way reflects reality, he was a fine defender, and is totally a product of misconception. Also to say he couldn't distribute or rebound the ball is somewhat erroneous. He played in a system that had him playing mostly off the ball, so he really wasn't ever put in position to distribute it. He rarely ever turned the ball over. And he played with the likes of Dale Davis, Antonio Davis, Rik Smits, etc. It wasn't really in his job description to crash the boards. Again, it's crazy how undervalued this guy is.

Reggie was in no way shape or form a fine defender. He played in a system meant to maximize his only strength and had to have the offense built a specific way. Which is fine but lets not make excuses for the guy, having Rodman didnt prevent MJ from rebounding and Rik Smits wasnt a great rebounder IIRC. Even if it was in Reggies "job description" he couldnt do it.

Chronz
02-19-2011, 02:05 AM
Pure jibba-jabba. Miller's entire career was in it's twilight before youtube even existed.
You dont need to be in your prime for youtube to have a lasting effect. Case in point "The Shot" against the Jazz for MJ. I saw a poll recently where the overwhelming majority of fans first saw that shot via youtube.


We all know he was the all-time leader in 3 pointers until recently. This is because he was a modern 3pt shooter ahead of his time. He should be in the Hall because he turned the three point line into a true threat.
Let me get this straight, he should be in the HOF for a skill that didnt even make him a fixture in the AS game? Why exactly?


Bill Bradley's career stats (HoF member)
12.4 ppg
3.4 apg
3.2 rpg

Collegiate Success but your point stands, there are far less deserving individuals in the HOF.


Sam Jones
17.7, 2.5, 4.9
Fine defender and played in an era where everyone went crazy with naming winners to the HOF



This is a cursory search, but it's clear most people in this thread have NO IDEA what they are talking about...

LOL the HOF is a joke, if you admit that then you know what your talking about. Im just basing my opinion of a HOF based on my own consistent criteria. If your saying he deserves to go in based on all the ****** decisions theyve made in the past then yea your right. Im just clearing up alot of misconceptions or asking for people to defend certain claims.

Hellcrooner
02-19-2011, 02:10 AM
Lets make some comparisons to other candidats that have gone trough the cut THIS YEAR ( so his competition)

MIller 18 ppg 3 assists 3 rebounds
No rings
5 Allstars.
No first or second teams.

Jamaal Wilkes 17,7 ppg 6,2 rebounds 2,5 assists
4 rings ( 1 gs 3 Lakers)
3 ALlstars
champion with ucla
2 all america
roy
once top 10 in mvp votings
2 times all defensive team
NOT HIS FIRST BALLOTT

then you got for example CHRIS MULLIN ( not his first ballot either)
18.2 4.1 3.5
5 allstars
DREAM TEAM MEMBER gold
two times all america
one time 1s teamer in nba various sencond teamer or third teamer

Mo Cheeks (Not his first ballot)
11,5 2,7 6,7 asists (not great in appearance)
4 allstars
4 times all defensive 1st team
1 time all defensive 2nd team
1 ring
top 5 in assists several times
top 10 in steals bansically all his career



go figure.

Maybe miller is not a first ballot after all.....

ChiTownPacerFan
02-19-2011, 02:27 AM
Thats because your analysis consists of crediting one player for the entire good/misfortune of his team with no regards to the support in place vs their era.

Let's not pretend that Reggie played sidekick alongside a bunch of all-stars. Reggie was far and away the best player on the Pacers for his entire prime.


Reggie was in no way shape or form a fine defender. He played in a system meant to maximize his only strength and had to have the offense built a specific way. Which is fine but lets not make excuses for the guy, having Rodman didnt prevent MJ from rebounding and Rik Smits wasnt a great rebounder IIRC. Even if it was in Reggies "job description" he couldnt do it.

I guess this just comes down to opinion. I watched Reggie play for years, and I never thought he was a liability defensively. No, he wasn't Bruce Bowen, but he wasn't Michael Redd either. By the way, why don't we hear the same knocks on Ray Allen? Reggie averaged 3 boards and 3 assists for his career, Ray is averaging about 3.5 assists and just over 4 boards. I feel like a lot of people don't like the guy for some reason. Maybe it's because he is such a terrible announcer.

Hellcrooner
02-19-2011, 02:39 AM
Let's not pretend that Reggie played sidekick alongside a bunch of all-stars. Reggie was far and away the best player on the Pacers for his entire prime.



I guess this just comes down to opinion. I watched Reggie play for years, and I never thought he was a liability defensively. No, he wasn't Bruce Bowen, but he wasn't Michael Redd either. By the way, why don't we hear the same knocks on Ray Allen? Reggie averaged 3 boards and 3 assists for his career, Ray is averaging about 3.5 assists and just over 4 boards. I feel like a lot of people don't like the guy for some reason. Maybe it's because he is such a terrible announcer.

Allen has something on his hands Miller has Not.

carnage101
02-19-2011, 03:54 AM
Allen has something on his hands Miller has Not.

allen was the third wheel for that ring, reggie could have joined the lakers during his firt free agency but he remained loyal to the team that drafted him. A trait most athletes now a days forgot. REGGIE could have chased the same ring ray ray has but again was loyal to the team that drafted him. Ray allen alone couldn't bring a team past the first round of the playoffs.

ChiTownPacerFan
02-19-2011, 04:07 AM
allen was the third wheel for that ring, reggie could have joined the lakers during his firt free agency but he remained loyal to the team that drafted him. A trait most athletes now a days forgot. REGGIE could have chased the same ring ray ray has but again was loyal to the team that drafted him. Ray allen alone couldn't bring a team past the first round of the playoffs.

This.
Ray Allen has never done anything aside from being a third option. He was the third option in Milwaukee and he is the third option in Boston. As I said earlier, he won exactly one playoff series in all his years in Seattle. Reggie, on the other hand, was the unquestioned star, and leader of his team for at least half a dozen playoff runs. There is no comparison. If you think Ray Allen is the better player you should be embarrassed (not that Ray isn't a great player in his own right).

Hellcrooner
02-19-2011, 04:19 AM
allen was the third wheel for that ring, reggie could have joined the lakers during his firt free agency but he remained loyal to the team that drafted him. A trait most athletes now a days forgot. REGGIE could have chased the same ring ray ray has but again was loyal to the team that drafted him. Ray allen alone couldn't bring a team past the first round of the playoffs.

good parish was the third wheel on the celtics.

cheeks the third wheel on sixers

worhty the third wheel on lakers

rodman the 4th wheel on pistons and bulls

wilkes the third wheel on lakers.

guess what some of them are in hof, some will get in this year.

carnage101
02-19-2011, 04:26 AM
good parish was the third wheel on the celtics.

cheeks the third wheel on sixers

worhty the third wheel on lakers

rodman the 4th wheel on pistons and bulls

wilkes the third wheel on lakers.

guess what some of them are in hof, some will get in this year.

it means cheeks was on the ballot for years and same with rodman i don't know for sure about the others but reggie won't be on the ballot for nearly as long as those 2 i mentioned

NYKalltheway
02-19-2011, 04:29 AM
Cheeks> all :)

ChiTownPacerFan
02-19-2011, 04:30 AM
good parish was the third wheel on the celtics.

cheeks the third wheel on sixers

worhty the third wheel on lakers

rodman the 4th wheel on pistons and bulls

wilkes the third wheel on lakers.

guess what some of them are in hof, some will get in this year.

Okay, good for them, but Reggie was the first wheel on his team, so shouldn't he be a first ballot guy. Can you imagine if Reggie had played with Jordan, Magic, Issiah, Dr. J., etc. He would have put up even better numbers, and he would have won multiple rings. Doesn't seem fair to penalize a guy for not playing alongside other hall-of-famers.

JordansBulls
02-19-2011, 10:05 AM
Lets make some comparisons to other candidats that have gone trough the cut THIS YEAR ( so his competition)

MIller 18 ppg 3 assists 3 rebounds
No rings
5 Allstars.
No first or second teams.

Jamaal Wilkes 17,7 ppg 6,2 rebounds 2,5 assists
4 rings ( 1 gs 3 Lakers)
3 ALlstars
champion with ucla
2 all america
roy
once top 10 in mvp votings
2 times all defensive team
NOT HIS FIRST BALLOTT

then you got for example CHRIS MULLIN ( not his first ballot either)
18.2 4.1 3.5
5 allstars
DREAM TEAM MEMBER gold
two times all america
one time 1s teamer in nba various sencond teamer or third teamer

Mo Cheeks (Not his first ballot)
11,5 2,7 6,7 asists (not great in appearance)
4 allstars
4 times all defensive 1st team
1 time all defensive 2nd team
1 ring
top 5 in assists several times
top 10 in steals bansically all his career



go figure.

Maybe miller is not a first ballot after all.....

Why is KJ, Kemp, Hardaway, Bernard King not on this list this year?

todu82
02-19-2011, 10:41 AM
Yeah, never liked Miller as a player but he really should get in the Hall of Fame on the 1st ballot.

ShockerArt
02-19-2011, 11:22 AM
Yeah, never liked Miller as a player but he really should get in the Hall of Fame on the 1st ballot.

Based on what? Not trying to pick on you personally here. It's just that everyone seems to be making the argument that he's a HOFer because ... he is a HOFer.

Hellcrooner
02-19-2011, 09:40 PM
Why is KJ, Kemp, Hardaway, Bernard King not on this list this year?

kemp? are you serious? he was good for 5 years or so....then disappeared form earth.

King? i guess if sampson made it this year he should be considered.

hardaway and K Jhonson? 0 rings good stats but thats all.

Stroke
02-19-2011, 10:06 PM
Well he still has a lot of years left.

dodie53
02-20-2011, 12:47 AM
he deserves to be in it

JordansBulls
02-20-2011, 10:22 AM
kemp? are you serious? he was good for 5 years or so....then disappeared form earth.

King? i guess if sampson made it this year he should be considered.

hardaway and K Jhonson? 0 rings good stats but thats all.

Kemp was good for about 8 years.

KJ beat Malone/Stockton and Magic/Worthy in the 1990 playoffs without HCA.